Real Kyper & Bourne - Post-Road Trip R'n'R

Episode Date: March 9, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee with a sport crossover and look at Raptors' Fred VanVleet berating a ref in a post-game press conference and if it has opened the floodgates for NHL players to criticize officiating. They then touch on Kyper's article about where the Leafs' focus should lie in their remaining 18 games. They are joined by NHL on Sportsnet's Sean Reynolds (21:44) who shares why the Jets are slipping out of the playoffs, if they can get back on track and the mystery of Nikolaj Ehlers' low usage. Later, general manager of the Hurricanes, Don Waddell, breaks down operating under the radar, achieving his goals at the deadline and how he feels about Freddie Andersen in goal (41:51). Afterward, Keith Jones from TNT goes around the Eastern Conference playoff picture (56:20). The guys close with a conversation about how some Leafs' players regain form before the playoffs (1:19:27).The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Fan. And it is live. It's in color. It's on Sportsnet 590 The Fan. Sportsnet's YouTube channel. Sportsnet Now. iTunes. Spotify. Glad you're all aboard for the next two hours. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandale, David Siss-Boombaugh, Sammy McKee. No Leaf game tonight. How about tomorrow? No. Day after?

Yeah, day after. Okay. You okay? I'll be all right. They don't even practice it two days in a row. They deserved it. Five-day road trip. Coast to coast. With the pause.

Practice. I'm going to start off with some basketball news. Oh, they're going to go golf. I've just got the itch so bad watching the golf today. But anyways, continue. We're not going players right now. We'll save that for tomorrow. Okay.

Just, and it's, yes, it is basketball. It is Toronto Raptors. I know we just finished. Will tomorrow okay just and it's yes it is basketball it is toronto raptors i know we just finished will luke just does a terrific job on the raptors show not not trying to cut his grass here but last night i watched uh freddie van fleet yeah he uh go off Go off on an official that I have, I don't think I've ever heard. It was the most composed anger. I thought it was incredible. Yeah. And I want to bring this up because it's a sports issue. Yeah.

And here we are not quite 24 hours later, and there's just a bit of a swale in terms of actually, I think, momentum for Freddie than anything else. And I'm just wondering if this is a sign of times now moving forward, and I'll put in the nhl officials like don't tell me for one second that all our and uh officials in the national hockey league didn't take notice of an athlete going after an official after a game do we have that derrick can we play it just so we can grab the uh curveball we got some beeps here uh yeah we're going freddy on our first kippers clipper

we got beeps okay good van vliet okay good i don't mind i'll take a fine i don't really care i thought you know um ben taylor was f***ing terrible tonight um i thought that on most nights you know a couple other you know out of the three there's one or two that just f*** the game up you know and it's it's been like that a couple games in a row. Denver was tough, obviously. You come out tonight, you're competing pretty hard. The third quarter, I get a bulls*** attack. Changes the whole dynamic of the game.

Changes the whole flow of the game. And, you know, most of the refs are trying hard. I like a lot of the refs. They're trying hard. They're pretty fair. They communicate well. And then you got the other ones who just want to be d***s and just kind of f*** the game up.

Nobody's coming to see that s***. They're coming to see the players. And I think we're losing a little bit of the fabric of what the NBA is and was. And it's been disappointing this season. You can look up most of my texts this year. I've been with Ben Taylor officiated. So at a certain point as a player, you feel it's personal. And it's never a good place to be.

That's not why we lost tonight. We got outplayed. But it definitely makes it tougher to overcome. Have you heard that? You heard it in great full length? Yeah. I'm like flabbergasted. So an athlete would go after an official that hard.

I watch a ton of Raptors, okay? And I would say on court, Fred VanVleet is the least whiny of the bunch. Yeah. He's pretty stoke. But when it comes to on court behavior towards the officials, the Raptors are horrible. I mean, this is a chicken and the egg situation, right? Like you can talk about what comes first. Is it the bad calls or is it the whining?

But Nick Nurse is legitimately, it's unwatchable how hard he berates the officials. Did he take that for his coach? I don't know, but it's every night with him. Van Vliet's point, he's got eight texts this year, five are from that one official. But that from Freddie is thought out. That has to be personal. It is. There's no way it's not and i i respect the

hell out of freddie saying that but a lot of the raptors just whine for the sake of it and that drives me he just spent what 25 50 000 to say that like that 35k he did he get dinged already i don't think it's been announced yet calculated he's like i'm gonna spend 35 grand on calling that guy a dick in my post-game interview who was the ref that sheldon was after skilleter remember him and skilleter he's always at it with i think it was west macaulay west macaulay too he had something going on with skilleter too maybe a year ago or so ago imagine just came out and could you imagine kippers clippers if sheldon keith just came out or you know austin matthews just came out there and said that about it like lawn chairs

and just play it over and over and over again go oh my god so it's a big statement that's gonna be a famous clip that's gonna go down in history as an all-time clip so just to kind of bring this into the bigger picture here did freddie just open it up for all athletes now to go down that path? What's Freddie make? 40 million a year? Makes a lot. You know, I don't like sitting here and critiquing calls.

I would say we actually, that's the strength of our show. We don't. We don't. I can't ever remember coming here and being like, sometimes I'll throw one here and there. Well, you're still on the interference call in game seven. Yeah, I won't forget that one. But I'm just wondering now, did Freddie open it up for even NHL players now to go? Listen, if I think it's personal, if I think we're getting ripped off here and to a lesser extent, maybe even Sheldon revisits the way he, you know, why am I backing off when, when, when, when there's some officials who may be out to get me a couple thoughts on that first off four guys on the team five maybe six can afford to

do what he did most of the guys are making 750 to two they're not going to spend that money knowingly so it would have to be one of the superstars the other side of that is what i hope could happen is in the nba there is a post game i don't know let's say a presser with the refs but like they pool reporters reporters get some commentary okay big moment you guys didn't make a call on that play what happened and they get some answers i don't want that you don't want the nhl refs to say here's what we saw here's why we call it that way i just think in the big picture you just set yourself up even for more scrutiny and make it a bigger story than it already is and there's no way that you could i mean it's almost like talking to a someone in grade two it's like why did you make that call

because i wanted to i mean that's, that's how we're currently treated. I'd like to be treated like I'm in seventh grade where they explain to me why. Whatever you try to explain, if you think it's a crappy call, you're not talking your way out of it. You're not changing anybody's mind on a post-game comment.

And there are times where NBA officials, it's like NBA officials say LeBron should have, you know, a foul should have been called on LeBron in the final minute. It would have been called on LeBron. They wouldn't miss one on LeBron. Oh, this was a blatant one.

Oh yeah. I can sell things. And he acted like a petulant child as usual. Anyways, take your personal grievances. I just listen. I, I agree with Kipper though,

that the, the the ref press conference is exclusively for pissed-off fans who want, like, a chunk of meat and want something to be pissed off about. It's good. Throw the refs to them. They're the ones paying the bills. Throw them the ref.

It's like, Kipper nailed it. Wes McCauley, what'd you see on that trip in the third period? Nothing. I'm on my way. It's a really fast game out there. That one slipped by me. Sorry, guys.

Oh, guys, five minutes each for fighting. We feel so much better now. I had a 50-50 chance of making the right call. Yeah, I threw my arm up, thought I saw something. And the other thing that stuck out with me, again, in the grand scheme of sports is like if you know that there's officials out there that uh got it out for you that's on you pal but how am i gonna put my money down to make a bet on that game if i know this stuff's going on yeah oh and there are people who take that in consideration like that this there are refs who affect the over

under of games i think a couple of points like this guy's games tend to be lower scoring because he calls less fouls per game on average than that official so there are gamblers who pay attention to officials so after freddie's comments would all you know whether or not it's someone laying a bet on their own or people that are supposed to watch this regulation, would they go back and look at the tape and find out where all the money was bet and did anything get affected with these calls? The NBA would never have a biased official, would they? Once upon a time, I think they did.

There's only 17,000 documentaries. If I see another Tim Donahue,000 documentary like if i see another tim donahue i'm like i think i'm good i think i know what happened here more money of documentaries than he did fixing games the craziest part about that documentary was scott foster who was like one of the refs that was the closest to him officiated the raptors game the other night and threw scotty barnes out at the end of the game love Love it. Anyways. Alright, that's enough. Okay. Take the tinfoil hat off, Sam. Leafs, Leafs, Leafs. Two days off.

That too much for you after a road trip? I was going to say, do you guys want some other non- Leafs takes? Because Rob Manfred saved baseball. Oh, the pitch clock. I just saw this tweet from Jeff Passan. The time of games in the spring training is down a half an hour.

Just hacked a half an hour off their run time. Too fast. Runs per game. Oh, God. Hit the pimpers, pal. I can't watch it that fast. Runs per game are up. Stolen base attempts are up.

Ground balls, you know, like batting average of balls and plays on ground ball, up. Strikeout rate, down. Less planning, more playing. average of balls and plays on ground ball up. Yeah, I guess no one. Strikeout rate down. Less planning, more playing. Because you can't shift anymore. Love it. Manfred saved the game. All right, we can go on now. We need that pitch clock on the official's box when they look at video.

I think from the second they see, like, so they're not on the hook for tech difficulties, but the second they get their hands on the video, you have 90 seconds to make your call. No, too much. 45 seconds to make your call. I haven't, I don't know if I've, I definitely didn't invent this take, but it's one that I've heard

and one that like I've thought of a lot. You should get a couple real-time looks at it. Yeah, yeah, that's my take. Is it your take? Two real-time looks. If you can't overturn the call, I feel like I've heard it. Maybe it was you that said it to me.

Anyways, is that yours? I definitely said it, so I don't know unless it came from somewhere else. I just feel like if you start breaking these frame-by-frame, especially these offsides

that's so minuscule and you're reviewing them, you get a couple quick looks at it, and if you can tell any difference... It's like you've seen it three times now and you can't discern one way or the other. Stick with the call

you made in the moment. Agreed. Okay. All right. Good to talk about the Leafs the lease yeah we can talk about the lease i'm talking about your article lazy leaf stop practicing again it's thursday so my toronto star piece came out today uh if you want to take a look at it it's on my uh twitter account real kipper did a bit of a to-do list in the next 18 games where the focus might be and what you want to accomplish we still feel it's toronto and tampa bay so how do you how do you prepare for that love that good good idea before why don't we stick with officials and just start at the very

bottom of your column and you mentioned the puck over glass video review um yeah and right now it is unreviewable it is yeah puck over glass i think only is the ability for the officials to get together and make a call it's not reviewable so not that i want to see another stoppage of play and everybody's sitting around but I think that this one, and there has been a few calls where it's been suspect. Not everything's clear cut when it's puck over the glass, where a guy just shoots it over and you're all okay. Go to the box.

Sometimes there's sticks that come together. Sometimes there's a slight redirect off of a deflection off of some, an opposing player's stick uh stick that uh doesn't come up i think there's times when there there have been wrong calls on this yeah do you want to see video review get that one right i want if it's close for the league to come down talk to the official have the official take one look at it and correct it can i have my take on video review here he does love long games he wants my thoughts on puck over the glass is just not a penalty for me like if you i there's not many times in a game where a guy would do it on purpose before they made it a penalty you have to actually physically have the puck and consciously make a play with it

surely guys would rather make a play with it than fire it into the stands if the odd time it happens i don't know it just doesn't seem like worth a penalty to me what marner have three of them in the postseason last year not last year year before was it yeah a couple years ago you know like the most and like none intentional none just whoops i don't know see i'm i never liked it to begin with but now that it's in you don't take it out how about uh i was complaining on twitter the other day d zone hand pass i don't understand why you should be allowed to make a glove pass why the offense can't why should the defense get to makes Makes zero sense to me. If we want goals to be up and we're creating extra rules for the D?

See, I look at puck over the glass and I'm like, why just in the zone? Why not in the neutral zone? Why not in the offensive zone? Put a roof on the ice. Right? So it's like, okay. Six feet high roof. If you're telling people that you should be a pro and be able to keep that little disc in play,

then do it all over the ice. Maybe that's to your point with the past puck with the glove. Yeah. I just, with Borny, just scrub it. The one that pisses me off the most is when you're watching playoff hockey and it's overtime and guys are committing literal murders on the ice, like with trips and hooks and you know hits and whatever and then like all of a sudden a guy accidentally flips it over the glass

like that surely to god that's two minutes it makes it an outsized value penalty because they stop calling everything else the only thing you get penalized for is flipping it out of play by mistake agree so i would like to get rid of it as well all right so let's go through your list there is uh i think uh general manager's meeting in florida i think this week doesn't sound like too much is on the agenda though but i wonder if everyone's just going to fight bill armstrong for video revealing chikrin away one of them all right let's go to my uh toronto star article today on our to-do list for 18 games step one the goaltending explain your thought on the goaltending that i think samsonov went a long way in new jersey to solidify

where he's headed or where the team's headed with him towards that first round match up here but it's a big it's a big game for a lot of different reasons for the toronto maple leafs on saturday giving it to matt murray i think uh is a big statement to say despite your hiccups this season we still believe in you and we're putting you back in a position to do do something for us. So that's, what does that mean in the next 18 games? How many games do you,

do you think you need to put them in a position to be ready just in case sending falters between now and maybe game two or game four? Yesterday, we mentioned Dubas and the idea that, you know, you kind of thought maybe Kerfoot is still around and still so used based on validating the Cadre trade and still having a piece around. Do you think there's any interest from Dubas in validating the Murray signing, which certainly you didn't need to make? And they took a lot of the salary, which many people didn't think they'd have to.

Do you think he would like to be validated there? Yes, but I think he's forced into this much more than he was forced into needing to validate Kerfoot. Kerfoot, you had ample opportunity to probably move in the last year. You made the decision to keep him over McCann. And that one to me is a decision of real strength I think Kyle in the last six weeks

has looked around the league and go where am I going to find another goalie that is definitively an upgrade over Matt Murray if hopefully he's healthy and he didn't come up with one. Wouldn't he

love though for it all to come true with the Sioux boys pulling it out in the end. Murray's in the net. It wouldn't hurt him. Be his dream. Be his dream. It would be for sure. Okay, point two. Don't you think he needs five games? Four games? How two do you think he needs five games four games you

think you can get away with it how many do you want samson off to to truly feel like he's he's ready to go here well you know what interests me is the end of season schedule which sam alluded to yesterday and the weight of it the amount of games the leafs play in the last stretch of the season they got i want to say seven or eight games in the final 12 days so like what do you want Samsonov to play in the final 12 days of the season only a few times for me like play four times or twice a week on the way in probably good which leaves can you pull up the schedule do you think you You think teams that you're playing against will have anything to do with it? Do you want to be sharp against them?

I think 10 of the 19 are non-playoff teams. So here's the Leafs schedule. This is a fact. I know you can't see anything. Here's the, okay. So the last, do you want their last games? We got Rangers, Lightning, Florida. Working your way backwards.

Montreal, Boston is the last five games. All right. So do you want Rangers and Lightning? I think the last game of the season is April 13th. April 17th is likely playoffs. I think you probably go April 11th for for your starter so he plays tampa bay who tampa bay is on the 11th do you want sammy to go then then have a week off before if i want you want to show your card that's what i was gonna say if i get the control who's starting that game

it's not the guy starting game one okay so then samsonov would go april 13th against the rangers yeah or april 10th the day before the tampa game against florida in the back-to-back yeah that's the one there you go so then he plays a week later he's a week off before playoffs is that too much time off so this remind me kipper that you said you just want matt marie to do five games before the end of the year yeah i do 18 13 to 5 jeez i don't know i i can't many i know not enough i can't see it being that little oh really yeah okay five games that is 12 and 6 11 and 7 i would say closer to 12 and 6 or 11 and 7 to me okay all right but still like i think five five seems way less than seven to me that's a that's a. That's a clear delineate between starter and backup if you're doing it like that.

So if you're trying to figure out that Tampa game, how do you figure Boston? Because it's not a back-to-back situation in Boston. That one... Call up Wall for that one. No, you don't... I don't want him to see either of them. Boston. That one. Call up wall for that one. Do you know? You don't. I want him to see either of them.

Let's see. You got to give him one. Hide your goalies. Can't hide them. Sammy goalies are your goal. I'm with JB. Don't be that guy. Sammy.

He's, he's getting a setup with Sean Reynolds here to talk jets. You watched that jets game last night. Yeah. Wasn't that great on tv yeah oh well we'll get into it with uh sean reynolds here but yeah the jets liked their game i'm joking the let the jets have 40 plus 40 plus shots pounded him pounded him um mark andre flurry was like vintage lights oh he was a road hockey goalie just rolling around having a great time jets look a little frustrated at times but are they now in real threat here of maybe losing a playoff spot the only reason i say they're not

in trouble is because it's the flames chasing them and the flames are kind of a disaster all right let's bring in uh sean sean reynolds sportsnet reporter in winnipeg uh sean thanks for joining us we're just touching on the game last night uh and uh a disappointing one but one that left rick bonus awfully uh positive yeah well if you've seen the way that this team has played down the stretch uh they've been searching for positivity and i think last night was no doubt uh uh you know reason to be positive at least when you compare what they've seen lately like this is a team that has looked extremely uninspired down the stretch trouble finding itself it's a trouble finding itself. It's a trouble finding consistent effort. Some of its stars are disappearing entirely on certain

nights. The fact that they at least look like they deserved to win that game is reason for celebration at this stage if you're a coach because you're just looking for signs of life that you can build on. You're looking for a pulse to see if you can get the body going and standing up.

That's what Rick Bonas is looking for right now mean you take a look at a game like that they probably win it if not for connor hellebuck you do not hear that statement very often usually it's the other way around that they win games that he goes out and wins for them entirely but uh it's a tough sled for this team right now they're finding ways to lose down the stretch uh but playing the game the right way is a reason for a moral victory at this stage because they need any kind of victory they can get yeah nita writer i thought was their best player last night but for people who don't know where the jets are in the standings they're in the second wild card spot right now um you know they're they're only a point behind uh colorado for third in their division but the flames are four points behind them like it's you know not dire

but time to be nervous for sure how they're gonna need hellebuck last night was a stunning game the the one wrister on the two-on-one was unexpected i mean is it too much workload for him is it just a unlucky time for him to go cold what's going on with that guy yeah i don't know because he has gone cold as of late it's you know his last four or five games uh he hasn't been doing that well it's it's just it's just been a combination of things down the stretch where when when his performance has been there the the team around him, their performance hasn't been there. And then on the few nights where he seems to be off, it ends up costing him. And last night was a good example of that. It's just, you know, Kipper, I'm sure you know what it's like to be in a room

where it just seems like everything has gone wrong. At the beginning of the year, this team couldn't lose, right? The interesting part about last night's game is it's a game where the jets go out they they pile up 45 shots or whatever it is the opposition has 22 and somehow they don't win the game well that's usually the way it's been the other way like the jets are very used to being the team that allows 45 shots only gets 20 shots on net and somehow finds a way to win that game they've won i would wager seven eight maybe nine games this year in that manner back then everyone used to say well hey good

teams find ways to win games i always thought that was bs i always thought it was you know your goaltender is bailing you out and you need to start taking this a little bit more seriously. Well, however it's worked out now, the team that, you know, used to be the good team that found ways to win games, now they seem to be the team that's finding ways to lose games. And the one thing no one had on their bingo card was that Connor Hellebeck would be a problem at some point for them. I don't want to make it sound too drastic.

I don't think it was a huge problem, but they're not used to Connor Hellebeck costing them games. And he most definitely cost them that game last night. We're talking to Sean Reynolds, who does a terrific job covering the Winnipeg jets for sports net. Sean, at the beginning of the year, I, I, I did write off the Winnipeg Jets for no other reason than

I thought they would definitely lead the league in off-ice distractions. So many question marks about the future of this team, who the stars are. Blake Wheeler's captaincy was a huge story at the start.

All of it. And, lo and behold, they story at the start, all of it. And lo and behold, they had this amazing start, as you just mentioned. But is there a chance that maybe some of these things could, in fact, if they haven't already, catch up to them and this thing kind of gets spinning too far out of control here? Well, I'll tell you, Kipper, where I think it caught up with them. I think that a couple months ago that Kevin Sheveldayoff was expecting to be all in at the trade deadline. I think he was going to throw everything he had at this trade deadline.

I think he was expecting to be one of the busiest general managers heading into the trade deadline. And then what happened is this team, you know, we've seen it. They've fallen apart down the stretch. The calendar flipped to 2023, and they've fallen off the map. Now, the thing that people need to know is the Jets have done this since that 2018 year. They've done this every year since then.

In 2019, they looked like one of the best teams in the league. Calendar flipped from 2018 to 2019. They fell apart down the stretch, lost in the first round to St. Louis. The next year, they lost in the play. And the year after that, if you remember, they were duking it out in the Canadian division for first place with Toronto for a good chunk of that year. And then they ended up falling to the 14th seed. Last year was their best start in franchise history. with Toronto for a good chunk of that year. And then they ended up falling to the 14th seed last year

was their best start in franchise history. And they managed to find a way to make the playoff. This was the deal for Kevin Chevalier. He had one big question he needed to answer. Was it the coach that was the problem? Or was it this core? And when they shot out of the gates, I think he was thinking, okay,

it was Paul Maurice's tenure. Paul Maurice lost this team. Rick Bonas is bringing them back. But as they've folded down the way here, they're starting to look like it's the same problem they have every single year. And what cost them, to your point about the distractions behind the scenes, is this team, I don't think, doesn't know whether or not it's going to be able to re-sign Connor Hellebuck or Mark Shifley.

I think we all expect that they're going to lose Pierre-Luc Dubois. All of these players are leaving after next year. And I think that the general manager had to ask himself, do I want to invest and give away a bunch of our future in a core that very likely is going to be gone a year after this? I think he was willing to do that earlier on when they looked like a winner, but as they folded down the stretch i think that those distractions were enough for the gm to say we're only going to soft pedal this trade deadline make a couple pickups but we're not going all in

that's where it caught up with them i feel like the the most discussed player when i follow jets twitter is nick ehlers in terms of a guy that they think is great, that the coaches won't play and no one can make sense of. We did it with Nylander here forever. What's up with Nick Ehlers? Is he super valuable, not valuable, not valuable at all? Who's right? I wish I had an answer for you.

I can tell you this. When they played in the Canadian division and he was injured for parts of that year, I thought Nick Ehlers was the Winnipeg Jets' best player that year. Under Paul Maurice, it just always seemed like if there was a player that he was going to call out, if there was

a player that he was going to curb their ice time, if there was a player that he would call out in the media, which is not his style, but he did it every once in a while with Nick Ehlers, it was Nick Ehlers. And I can tell you there were plenty of players at that time that needed to be, you know, that could have been prime candidates for being called out. For whatever reason, Nick Ehlers was the guy that he kind of went to.

I'd wondered in the past if it was just a guy that he felt like, you know's a guy who i know will respond to that whereas maybe some of the other guys on this team if i did that they wouldn't respond well to it that's what i thought in the past which i guess means that he was an easy target for that i think it was similar with nate schmidt who just got uh sat for a game i think one of the reasons he got sat was not that he was you know any worse than anybody else but he was a guy they knew they could take out of the reasons he got sat was not that he was any worse than anybody else, but he was a guy they knew they could take out of the lineup and put back in and he'd handle it well and the team would rally around him.

But this season, Nick Ehler's ice time has really suffered down the stretch and when you ask Rick Bonas, who is so good at telling us the truth, like the blunt honest truth, every time it's this answer that there's this domino effect that happened in the game while there were these penalties and then i had to put

these guys out and then the dominoes started falling and nick eilers ice time got affected well then this happened in this game and this guy got injured and the dominoes started falling and just every time the dominoes start falling it it ends in Nick Ehlers losing ice time. And it doesn't make a lot of sense from the outside. This is a guy on a team that is desperately looking for scoring at 5-on-5, desperately looking for game-breaking players. Nick Ehlers has that potential. And he's not being given the opportunity to be that game breaker.

I wish I had an answer for you. There's a reason everyone is talking about it because people love great mysteries and they love trying to solve them. And that right now in Winnipeg Jets' world is the big mystery that people can't seem to solve. Hey, Sean, outside of maybe pointing a finger at Helleback last night, where else are they kind of leaking oil a little bit? We know the season Morrissey's had on the blue line.

Has that group slipped a little bit? I watched Logan Stanley sit on Kaprizov last night. But other than that, the one thing that I did think that Sheveldayoff may have wanted to do at the trade deadline is maybe get a little bigger on the back end but didn't happen yeah we were thinking if there were holes for him to fill he needed some depth up front maybe even more than he went after but he he addressed those to a degree with namestikov and niederreiter who've both been great since they came here we were all expecting him to pick up a defenseman.

I mean, this is Kevin Sheveldayoff's playbook. He always comes out and then points out, not specifically, but he'll talk about a whole bunch of rumors that he found laughable, and that never happened. So his playbook is always to say, oh, people were talking about us being active there, and boy, oh, boy, did they get it wrong. But he never, ever points out the fact that probably a lot of what is being said is right. We had heard that he was in on the pursuit of defensemen, and it makes sense.

We would have expected it. They could really use a higher-end defenseman coming in behind Josh Morrissey that kind of just shifts every guy in that lineup one spot down into more manageable minutes and more manageable situations uh we were surprised it didn't happen um but the overarching question of if there's if there's more play here you mentioned josh morrissey josh morrissey's play this year is unimpeachable i mean the guy has been phenomenal from the start to the finish or to this point in the season. There's been so many games, Kipper, that he just literally goes out

and just picks the Jets up and dusts them off. He's the guy who gets them going when they win their last game against the Rangers. A little while back, because they've been struggling for a long time. Right before they went into the break, they needed to get going, and they were losing to the lowly Blues 2-0 in the third period. And he went out and had two goals and, you know, picked the team up and put it on his back.

He's been doing that time and time again. The issue is just not a lot of people are following. And the stars that you would be expecting to get the job done, for the most part, their power play has gone ice cold. And, I mean, you're talking about the collection of stars they put out there on that power play that just can't seem to get it done and really haven't looked dangerous for a while. That's a big issue.

But the thing here that worries me most for Jets fans is that last year, the Jets would come out when they were playing down the stretch and trying to make a push for the playoffs, and they could come out. And I remember a game, I think they had seven goals last season in a game against the Tampa Bay Lightning. Like, they'd show how capable they were, and then they'd show up the next game and they would just be absent. And I've seen a lot

of that from them down the stretch here now you know you were talking about rick bonus and that game last night he's talking moral victories he's saying if we play like that down the stretch we'll be fine i entirely agree with him but the idea that this winnipeg jets team from what we've seen of them over last year and this year the idea of them being able to bring a consistent effort for the last 17 or so games of this season there's no expectation that that's a given this team has shown time and time again it can come out and look like world beaters and then look like they forgot to show up the very next night it's the biggest problem this organization has had for a long time now well then i'll get you to just you

know handicap that central division right now you got two teams struggling obviously the jets being one dallas struggling a bit too wild have won i don't know they're 902 in their last 11 and colorado is on fire again um yeah you know what do you think about the way this is all gonna shake out by the time we get to playoffs? Well, you mentioned that Colorado is one point up on the Jets, but they have three games in hand. Other than that, the crazy part about all this, my setup for this game last night was on February 10th, the Jets were seven points up on the Minnesota Wild. And after last night, Minnesota Wild are six points up on the Jets.

That's a 13-point swing in 26 days wow that's insane like that that that's almost impossible for that to happen so so i take a look at this right now i look at the standings the ship has sailed on the jets getting anything but a wild card here they're too far behind like the numbers tell us they can't get back up into that spot. So they are basically now in a dogfight with Calgary. And until very recently, I'd said with great confidence the Jets were making the playoffs because as much of a kind of crap show that the Winnipeg Jets are, that the Calgary Flames have been equally so, if not more so.

But they're showing a little bit of life here. The Jets are showing that there's blood in the water. If there's anything that can get a team like that inspired, that would be it. But the one thing I had thought was, like, the numbers just lined up. It wasn't long ago the Jets were seven points up on them. You don't close seven points with 17 games left unless you just entirely fall right down and you can't get up. Well, that's happened with the Jets. But the other part of this is they play one last game, these two teams.

So now the Calgary Flames are four points back. There's 17 games left. If I'm them, I'm just saying all we've got to do is close two or three points, and then it comes down to that game. We give ourselves a chance. What the Jets have shown the Calgary Flames, and I guess the Nashville Predators, if you want to put them in that camp as well,

what they've shown them is that there is now a path for those teams to make the Stanley Cup playoffs. And it didn't look very long ago like there was not a path. The Winnipeg Jets have opened the door, and they're peeking out, and they're holding their shoulder against it, but they're not holding it very strongly. They're giving

motivation to teams that probably didn't have a lot. Now that they do, that, I think, changes things again. There's blood in the water here. If those sharks want to wake up, they can be circling very quickly. One more before I let you go, Sean.

We know that Winnipeg market has been challenged this year and a few non-sellouts. Where is the vibe now with Winnipeg fans optimistic or pessimistic about finishing this thing out to gain a berth in the playoffs? Well, I think this says a lot, Kipper. We were expecting around the trade deadline when Kevin Sheveldeoff was not that active, we were expecting there to be a really angry fan base. I get the sense from the players they're not happy that there was inactivity. I think this says a lot. I would say my interactions with fans, and that's no scientific poll,

but a lot of the interactions I've had with fans is that you know that's that's it's no scientific poll but a lot of the interactions i've had with fans is is people saying good i'm glad they didn't mortgage the future for this team and i think that says a lot about the lack of faith that there is in this team in this market uh i think people are thinking that even if the jets do make it down the stretch and get into the playoffs here, that they won't last very long once they get in there. I see that there's a huge chunk of this fan base that is expecting them to tear down in this offseason. And I think there's a lot of them that are looking forward to it. I think this core, since 2018, they put this core together and said, show us what you can do.

And it really hasn't come up to the expectations, the lofty expectations that were set with that 2018 monster season that they had. It sounds to me, from the conversations I'm having, a lot of people are looking forward to what comes next and what a teardown and

rebuild looks like. And that should tell you everything you need to know what how much faith there is in this market for this team sean great stuff man really appreciate your time thanks for doing this anytime my friend thanks sean sean reynolds he uh he knows that team pretty well that last point is a really good one like people are kind of like okay this is disappointing we don't think this core is it, but what does it look like after them? You know, like in a flat cap world, having cap space is a massive asset. I mean, they're only a couple years away from being freed up of a lot of money.

I really think that Timo Meier was the guy that they needed. They just couldn't convince him to really sign their long term. They needed that commitment. It's one thing to trade for a guy, but it's another one to find him, walk out the door a year later. And I really believe that that guy would have been perfect to let the exit go in the next two years on Blake Wheeler and maybe even Shifley.

But it didn't happen, obviously. You know, I still think if you're the Jets, you should have made that trade if it were there for them. Like, you can qualify him at $10 million. two years on blake wheeler and maybe even shifley but it didn't happen obviously you know i still think if you're the jets you should have made that trade if it were there for them like you can qualify him at 10 million and you know whatever you have to do to make that work i don't know but let's say you qualify him at 10 million prime age player he probably gives you 10 million in value a la you know marner ranton and those type of guys except against the leafs the other night right not very good but you know he's probably worthwhile. And if he's not going to resign there, then you're going up

to the deadline with a massive asset. Recoup your... Yeah. Yeah. It's a good point. I don't know if you get it all back. And that depends on how good he is. Try to convince him. Yeah, for sure. Okay, Sammy, we good? All right, we're going to hit the break and Don Waddell,

general manager of the Carolina Hurricanes, is going to join us. If you did a poll amongst, Sammy, we good? All right, we're going to hit the break, and Don Waddell, general manager of the Carolina Hurricanes, is going to join us. If you did a poll amongst, like, a lot of fans, would they know today that the Carolina Hurricanes are the second best team in the NHL? Don't know. No. No.

We'll ask Don that question after the break. Yeah, they do. So let's start with Don Waddell after the break. You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born, and we're glad you're aboard. Smart takes on the biggest stories in sports. The Fan Drive Time with Ben Ennis. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify,

or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. All right, as promised, the general manager of the second-best team in the NHL with 92 points, Don Waddell. Don, do enough people know this, that you guys are the second best team well we'd like to just slide under the radar here uh we've been fortunate to be in the spot we're in and hopefully we can continue on finish out the season get ready for the postseason leaf fans want to thank you personally for humiliating Tampa Bay earlier in the week.

Yeah, I think we caught them at a good time. We didn't play a very good game, but those things happen. We've seen it with lots of teams, but no, it was a pretty entertaining game to be at home in front of a full house. So, Don, things have gone very well for you guys as noted um when you went into the deadline god it was turmoil here in toronto six players got turned over um how did you guys feel the deadline went for you did it go to plan it did you know we went in with uh a need you know we felt that uh we didn't want to lose anybody off our current roster. We like our roster, but our power play for as good as our record is,

I think at that point we were 23rd in the league, and of the 16 playoff teams, we would have been 16th entering the playoffs. So we wanted to address our power play, and we felt we did that in Gothenburg. And then we wanted some more depth up front, and we've always had time for jesse and we made a decision to we had some caps space obviously because of the max patch ready situation and we felt that those two players bringing them in would give us another little lift and not break up our team the way we were going. Was there a thought of, you know, that

we heard the Timo Meier rumors but, you know, Max Pacioretty still shown that he could score at a great level and, you know, feel bad for him with his situation of hurting his Achilles tendon again.

Is there any thought, Don, of maybe even bringing him back next year after a couple of setbacks? Yeah, no. We went in, you know, this summer, and we were fortunate enough to add him and add Max. And, you know, the heartbreaking thing there, we won the game the night he got hurt, and it was the most somber locker room I've ever been in because

the players watched how hard he worked to get back. And for him to play five games and score three goals and then re-tear his Achilles it was just a big blow not just the organization but more personally for Max himself so to answer your question yes I think he's going to come back whether you know we can work something out with him to bring him back we'd like to have him here he's been a great influence around our locker room because he's been in the locker room every single day through his treatment and being with the guys.

So, you know, I think this type of injury that everybody tells me when I become an expert on Achilles' tenets, that once you have that second surgery, it's 99.9, that that injury is not going to come back. So, you know, we've got a ways to go here. He's got a long rehab in front of him. But watching how he approached the first time around, there's no reason to think that he won't come back a second time.

Don, you guys are such an interesting built team in terms of forward depth. You know, you look at the fourth line right now, just pulling it up quickly online, looking at Stastny, Steppen, Nason like you guys are it's not your typical construction you guys use all your 12 forwards is that something your coach likes is that something you sought out or is it just sort of circumstance how do you come to design a team that looks the way yours does well we look at it a little differently that it takes goals to win hockey games and you know we want to it doesn't matter what line we throw out there uh two things have to happen they have to be responsible defensively and all those players are and we need them to contribute

offensively um and they've also done that too so So, you know, everybody builds their teams and sets up their lineups, you know, differently. That's just our approach. It's been working for us, and we're going to continue with that thought process moving forward. You mentioned Gostaspera for your power play. How about Jesse Pouliarve and what he brings? Obviously, you didn't trade for a top five overall pick, but you did trade for someone that you believe

that can be a serviceable player. What did you see enough out of this player to bring him on board? Yeah, we're very familiar with the player. Obviously the draft that he went, we got two of the other guys, Shveshenkov and KK

that were drafted there. So we were very familiar with the player. Obviously, he played with Sebastian Ajo and the World Juniors. I've talked to Kenny Holland about him for almost a year, and Kenny did not want to trade him. And he got in a situation where he had to move some salary cap out to make the move he did on defense. And I remember he called me that morning and said,

are you still interested? I said, absolutely. So we think he, you know, we wanted to get a little bigger on the right side. We believe he brings speed and, you know, he knows how to play. He's got to be given that opportunity to get back to where we all think he can be. And I think it's going to be a good fit for all of us. Don, I watched some clips online of watching Rod Brindamore welcome guys into the lineup and talking about the family there.

Rod Brindamore is obviously integral to the culture of the Carolina Hurricanes. It just feels like a unique group. What is it about your team that feels unique? Just in general, I mean, the Carolina Hurricanes seem unique to me. Is that a fair assessment from the outside? Yeah, it is. And I think, you know, one of the things that Rod's never going to ask anybody to do

that he hasn't either done or still does himself. You know, the way we play, you know, we try to play fast, and we feel like we're one of the better conditioned teams in the league, which is no surprise, leading by Rod. So, you know, we always say in our locker room, if you can't create a culture, it's got to happen on its own. But if you put the elements in place for it, the players want to play for each other. They feel like a family out there.

We play a man-on-man system which is no surprise to anybody. Everybody's got responsibilities. If everybody takes care of what they need to do, they're watching out for each other, then we're going to have success with that kind of style. Don, we know

the year that Boston's having when you compare it to history. It's incredible, but you compare it to history and it's incredible but you think only have four more losses than the boston bruins i mean it's not like uh you guys are uh distant distant second here in terms of uh of where you are in the standings yet do you go into the trade deadline thinking that like if if we did match up against boston how would we match up and where where i still needed to go in the trade deadline is is boston not only for you but maybe every other team the the measuring uh stick here in terms of how you want to ultimately match up

yeah you know they've had a tremendous season they got a tremendous team there you know i've always said though what happens around us we can't get caught up in the Yeah, you know, they've had a tremendous season. They've got a tremendous team there. You know, I've always said, though, what happens around us, we can't get caught up in the moment because, you know, if we do that, we're going to chase a lot of teams. You know, if we're fortunate to play Boston at some point, it's going to be in the Eastern Conference Finals. So, you know, if that happens, that'll be great for us, and we'll try to beat them. But what they do and what other teams do, you know, I don't really get caught up because, you know, what happens is, and I did it as a rookie, a younger GM, you know, you put your sights on a player and they keep asking for a little bit more and a little bit more, and you finally give something that you don't

really want to give, but you get caught up in the moment. And so that's why I think the strategy going into a trade deadline and free agency, for that matter, is make sure you have a good, solid plan. And you're not going to get every player you go after. It's just the way the business is. And there's a price you're going to pay for each acquisition you're going to make. And as long as you stay there in that lane i think the end result is always going to work out uh in your favor donna being a toronto-based show i've got to

ask you about freddie anderson heading into the playoffs how his season has been and how you guys feel about his play in his presence there in carolina yeah you know he's played uh fairly well this year uh He's played really well late here. Had to shut out the other night against Tampa. You know, that was probably one of his easier shutouts of his career. And not take it any way because the third period

he did have to make some good saves. But, you know, it was a big blow for us last year when he got hurt prior to the playoffs. You know, we're going to manage our goalies as best we can. And we called up Kochkov. He's going to play playoffs. We're going to manage our goalies as best we can. We called up Koch Coffee. He's going to play tonight. The plan all along was to make sure we don't burn anybody out,

put anybody in a situation where they would be subject to an injury. We think we've got three capable goalies, and we want to make sure that we do the right thing, whether we win every game between now and the right another regular season is as important as being prepared as much as you can for the postseason done just to switch gears a little bit too there's some rumblings about expansion around the national hockey league and the city of atlanta comes up and you know you've spent time there is there is there things out of your

experience there that you could say this worked this didn't work is there any world you envision that Atlanta could come back to the National Hockey League like Winnipeg did yeah I think there's lots of challenges one is uh the arena that we played in as the Thrashers is no longer available. They've retrofitted it to a basketball-only arena. So you'd have to build a new building, which in today's day is probably another $800 to a billion. So that would be the number one thing. Secondly, obviously, it's going to be up to the commissioner whether we ever have expansion and where that might be. I know there's some other cities that have been talked about for multiple

years, but, you know, today's day, what I've said is hockey is so much different today, even than 15, 20 years ago, when we started in Atlanta, actually 25 years ago, the popularity of our sport has continued to grow. And, you know, you just look at attendance around the league. You look at the excitement from the markets, all these markets that, you know, what Florida did last year with Tampa based on the last six, seven years. You know, the sport continues to grow and the popularity is incredible.

So there's a lot of cities, I think, that would work in the right situation with the right type of ownership and the structure they'd have in place. And, you know, there's no reason why Atlanta couldn't be one of those. Hey, Don, really appreciate your time. Wish you the best of luck the rest of the season. It's going to be fun to watch. Thanks for your time. Always a pleasure, guys. Thanks for having me on.

Thank you. Don Waddell, general manager of Carolina. I haven't watched a ton of Carolina, but every time I do, you're like, yeah, that's a good team. Here's my hot take on Carolina. Everyone's good. Like every player, like there's no one on the ice where you're like, oh, here comes, you know, the couple of bums that round out the lineup because they ran out of money.

Like I mentioned, their fourth line is Paul Stastny, Derek Steppen, and Stefan Nason. Third line, guys like Martin, who stall and fast. Like, they're good. Listen to this decor right now. Slavin, Jacob Slavin, and Brent Burns, Brady Shea and Brett Pesci, Calvin DeHaan and Shane Gostisbeer.

Like, that's a good decor. Okay. That's five deep and Gostisbeer. Don't look, Don't cheat. How many points does Brent Burns have this season? Oh, I love that you're asking this question because I have no clue. 35. 50.

Really? Yes. Does he really? Yes. I think he's 38, 37. Wow. 50 points on D. What a move that's been.

I get that, you know, there's no weather factors to attract players in Carolina like there is, say, Winnipeg or Edmonton. But the guy left California. Oh, I see yeah to go to the carolina hurricanes not exactly on everyone's first wish list i don't know i i think do you well personally i am talking yeah like i i can see why people don't i bet you it's gorgeous this time you're there okay i'm not talking about i'm not talking about mountains and i'm not talking about you're an hour away from the beach i'm talking carolina hurricane gotcha it is not a prestige organization when you look at the rangers

nothing it's just you know and you got an owner that likes to metal bargain shop and get everybody as cheap as possible yet success there yet the guy said i'm coming yeah you want me i'm coming i i'm green lighting you yeah trading for my rights yeah well you know two thoughts on that again i find carolina very appealing because you know sam mentioned there's golf seems like a good climate you. You're kind of out of the radar or under the radar a bit at times. Seems appealing to me. But Brent Burns is like, he's a bit of a wild card himself, isn't he? I've always loved him.

Yeah, in a positive way, like Carolina. I'm not patting myself on the back, but I called right off the bat that Eric Carlson and Brent Burns no good. One alpha dog on the blue line. Not two. And the chemistry never... That sealed his fate, Brent Burns.

That contract to Carlson sealed his fate. Alright, we're going to switch gears here. Usually we're probably about five or ten minutes away from a break, but we're not because we got Keith Jones on the line right now. Keith is a busy guy. We figured we'll sneak him in now because he's, I don't know,

got a really important meeting or something. I don't know. He's got a real job. Jonesy, what are you rushing us for? I got to get on the team bus. I don't want to be talking while the whole team is talking. What are you doing? The coach,

what's going to do to you, Jonesy? Exactly. You know, that routine kept, it hasn't been that long since we both played. Believe me, we've all been there guys.

We, we have, but you know, you, you've been retired for a long time. Now the days of being scared on a team bus should be over. Yeah, you're probably right about that. All right.

You can say a lot more when they're not around. How is the Philadelphia Flyers? How is Torts? And, you know, I loved his post-game comments on the spear from D'Angelo where he's like, he really wants to say he loved it, but he can't. So, I mean, is that as exciting as it got this season, the spear to Corey Perry? Yeah, there's no doubt that the latter part of the season has been rough.

I really thought they maintained and stayed in the fight for a little bit longer than I think their talent suggested that they would. So the Tortorella effect was certainly part of the reason for that. But they really hit the wall. They've had some really tough games recently, and they're going to be in for a tough one tonight against Carolina. So I think that I would say overall it's it's been a move in the right direction they're establishing the foundation but they got a lot of work to do

well it's an interesting uh division that they're in there obviously a lot of good teams new jersey has taken a step how you know how serious is it should we take new jersey as a stanley cup threat because they've only recently emerged and they're, you know, they have, don't have a lot of big game experience. I wouldn't say, but boy, that's a pretty good hockey team in the division, isn't it? Yeah. You know, you, you start to look and see where are the holes, right? Where's the question marks, I guess in goal, but it's been pretty good all season long on the back end.

They've got guys that have really performed. While Marino was a great pickup for them. He has just quietly gone about doing what he's been doing since he entered the National Hockey League, overcoming obstacles and becoming a really solid defenseman. And up front, they've got such a

good mix. The Palat addition and having him in good health right now is something that I really look forward to watching down the stretch. Numerous times, Tampa relied on him to come up with a big game at the right time. He's a big reason why they won the two Cups that they won and also returned to the Stanley Cup final last year. He is a playoff performer, and he's going to help insulate some of the younger players that are getting their first taste of some real competitive hockey we're joined by keith jones former nhler

and hockey analyst for tnt so if we're on palat in new jersey do we assume maybe the the hiccup that we've seen out of tampa bay could be the fact that they maybe miss palat a little bit here what do you make a tampa bay What do you make of Tampa Bay? What do you make of Vasilevsky going through what he's going through, what, 15, 16 games out? Yeah, I don't worry about the goaltender. I do think they have been really sloppy in areas that they normally aren't. I don't know if they're just taking a breath to try to gather themselves

before they try to make their fourth straight run to the Stanley Cup final. That could play into it a little bit, but they are a different team in some regards. You can't forget about McDonough either and the importance that he was on the back end. They've given up so many odd man rushes over the last three weeks. There's been breakaways. There's been two-on-ones. There's been three-on-twos. There's been a lot of frustrating, head-shaking moments defensively in the Lightning's decision-making.

So there's some holes on that team. I think eventually we expected that to start to show its face. It has, and Koop's got a challenge on his hands. He's the right coach because he's the best coach, and he's proven that over the last three seasons. Took a calculated risk in benching all three of his star players. Kucherov responded well in the second game after that benching. That was against the Flyers, so it's tough to measure just how good he was,

but he did pick up a couple of goals in that game. There's a, it's a different feel to that team. And some players are going to really have to elevate their play if they're going to make another run. So just kind of keeping it to, to, to the Eastern conference,

because there's so many great teams and obviously you would have a up close view of some of these guys. The Rangers made some big trades to the trade deadline, bringing in Taraenko bringing in patrick kane uh if i'm not mistaken since then they have struggled you know just looking at their wins and losses it hasn't been perfect is it too many cooks in the kitchen who who goes on the power play what's up with the rangers and their new additions jonesy yeah that that's a hundred percent what it is And it's going to be up to those players to sort it out, and they better do it quickly. The other part of it, too, is on the back end,

missing Lindgren and Keandre Miller for a few games changes the entire complexion of that team. The best-kept secret about the Rangers is their back end is outstanding, and they all have a role to play, and they're all relied upon to make plays, and they're led by Adam Fox. So the forwards are going to have to sort it out, figure out the chemistry, figure out their roles,

and understand that they might not get the same opportunities they had in the cities that they were in prior. But the blue line is going to be the key, and the goaltending is going to be the key for the Rangers. So I don't look at them and go, oh oh my God, Chris Drury's ruined the team. I think it's much more complicated than that. I think they're a very good team. I do think they will figure it out.

And I think they're going to be a really difficult out when the playoffs roll around. Are you as confident with Shusterkin as you are Vasilevsky? Yeah, I actually think the Rangers' blue line is better than Tampa's. So I think he's going to have a better opportunity of seeing less complicated shots coming at him. I think Shusterkin's going to gain an advantage from that. I think he's a very good puck handler as well.

He can alleviate some issues on the forecheck, but I do think the Rangers' defense is overall better than what Tampa has, and I wouldn't have said that last year. Can I just follow up the goaltenders? Please jump in on this as well. Jonesy, I mean, it just seems like, I know we've had a couple conversations on goalies in general, and in general and,

you know, in our era, you wouldn't be hard pressed to find legitimate 12, 14 starting goalies, a lot less now. Shusterkin's numbers are down this year. Vasilevsky looks like he's come down to earth. Even Hellebuck now is maybe a bit of a hiccup.

Is there more pressure on goalies today to carry the mail than even back in our era for some reason? I'm just wondering why are we seeing this with goalies? Yeah, the answer is yes, Skip. And the big reason is we've made so many adjustments to add to the offense of the games, including the face-off to start the power play in the offensive zone. We're doing things that we've had rule changes that have been put in place to create more scoring,

and the goalies obviously are not going to benefit from that. I do think that's the genesis of it. I think there's a lot more highly skilled offensive players that are able to get to the middle of the ice because they're not going to get their head knocked off. Very rarely do we see that. So a player will make that inside move and get himself to a better shooting spot on the ice. I think those are the challenges that the goaltenders face. I think they face a lot more A-quality opportunities than they did in the past. And I do think that's why.

Their jobs are much more difficult. And, you know, for the guys that have been very good for a long time, and Hellebuck and Vasileski stand out in that regard, there's going to be some moments where their game dips a little bit, and some of it might be fatigue. Well, one of the teams who does have a starter is the Islanders Islanders of

Soroka. I don't know how many shout outs he's got this year, but he's been a rock for them. I don't know that the penguins have got the same goal tending two teams kind of fighting for that wild card spot. Do you like those two teams to hang on there? Jonesy Florida, three points behind Pittsburgh Ottawa was on the heels.

Buffalo's making noise cap still around do you think it is the islanders and penguins at the end of the day i do i wouldn't you know i wouldn't rule out the islanders because of their goaltending and a healthy adam pellick i think he's kind of the jacob slavin of the islanders i think he's a very very good defenseman i think they missed him for an extended period of time. I think it was a concussion, if I'm not mistaken. So hopefully he's 100% back in there and can continue to play the way he has

over the last three seasons. Bo Horvat being there helps them. They've got a pretty reliable defensive team, not necessarily exciting to watch. So I would be surprised if if the Islanders don't make the playoffs the goaltended in Pittsburgh worries me a lot the back end worries me I think if any of the teams that are chasing are going to catch one of the teams that will be the Pittsburgh Penguins but you can't count out a team that's got Crosby and Malkin and still has

some capable top six forwards but depth has been an issue there all season long. And they really didn't do a whole lot to adjust to that. So I'm concerned about the Penguins. The other thing too, and we're talking about Buffalo and Ottawa and Florida, if you want to throw Washington in that is like, even though it looks good in the standings, Jonesy every, every team's got to lose except you to make ground.

It's just, it is that difficult. It is. And have you ever seen more of a divide from good teams to bad teams this year? So you got to like pick through the schedule and say, okay, what team's trying to get Conor Bedard? When do we play them? And when's our opponent, the guys that are, okay, what team's trying to get Connor Bedard? When do we play them? And when's our opponent, the guys that are chasing us, playing them?

I mean, there's a lot of teams that it benefits not to win right now. So it's not ideal for teams that are trying to chase. Now, I haven't picked through the schedule of every team that's sitting in a playoff position, but you can be sure they're going to have some games that there's an automatic two points sitting there, or it's a major disappointment if they don't come out with a win in those games so i do think that really plays into it i think some teams really weakened themselves after or

just prior to the trade deadline and i think the teams that are in playoff position are going to benefit benefit from that well one of those being the Leafs, haven't asked you about them yet. They went heavy. They went and got Achari and Lafferty and McCabe and Luke Shen and, you know, not the guys you would think of as Kyle Dubas types. Is this enough? Is this the right direction for the Maple Leafs? It is.

It's the right direction without question. And you look around the teams that felt that they you know have legitimate chances to make a run this year they all added grit if it was lacking they added character players they added guys that are willing to you know take a punch in the face or deliver a big hit that play with discipline as well i think it was a very good job by Kyle Dubas to get his team in place and take away every excuse that's been lying there for the last 10 years. They have no excuses now. The star players have no excuses.

They're well protected. And this is the type of team that you need to put together when the playoffs roll around. Tampa learned their lessons and continue to add the type of team that you need to put together when the playoffs roll around. Tampa learned their lessons and continue to add those type of players when the playoffs roll around. That's the big reason why Tampa got over the hump after that devastating loss to Columbus in round number one going back a few seasons ago. And Toronto has finally taken that to heart and decided that they're not going to get pushed around. They're going to find a way to win. Jonesy, no question that the Leaf management targeted Ryan O'Reilly for many different reasons.

The biggest one is he's won. He's done it before. He knows the recipe here. Do you think, and you've been a player that's had some great leadership in in dressing rooms is unfortunately for ryan and the leafs was there an opportunity in the next four weeks to gain some traction and some moxie to go into the playoffs knowing where his complete role is on and off the ice or can that be gained in in the last week that he comes back and starts game one? Because of his stature and what he's accomplished in his career,

I think it can be regained as soon as he puts his skates back on and is going to be in the lineup. I mean, it doesn't matter if he's not playing, obviously, but when he returns and puts that Maple Leaf uniform on, steps on the ice prior to the playoffs and for game one of the playoffs, that's when the Ryan O'Reilly benefit will arrive. And it's not all about how quickly he gets up and down the ice anymore. It's knowing where to be, when to win the key faceoff,

how to win the key faceoff, and how to play under extreme pressure. He's done that throughout his career, and I look forward to watching him put that uniform on and go out there and lead by example for the players that have been there and tried to get over the hump and have been unable to do so, but are looking to try to be able to do it this year. How about grabbing one of his teammates by the collar and saying, we need more out of you?

Not that anyone ever grabbed your collar, Jonesy. Oh, I'm sure that's happened to me, Kip, no doubt. But I will tell you, I wasn't important enough to get my collar grabbed. For a player like Ryan O'Reilly, if he grabs somebody, I would say grab a guy that's looking for that extra boost to get over the top. Players like O'Reilly know how to do that. They know the locker room, even if they haven't been there for long. They're very astute.

I think part of their brilliance is their ability to bring other players around them and get their game going in the right direction. It's not always about yelling and screaming. Sometimes it's just making somebody feel comfortable. I think O'Reilly's done that throughout his career. Did I just hear Torts say Jonesy get on the bus right now?

Yes, you did. Yes, you did. Set him free, Kipper. Set him free. Alright, pal. Thanks for doing this. Always good to catch up, guys. Thanks a lot. Thanks, Jonesy. That is Keith Jones now racing to the bus. It's an awful feeling. Hey, it is an awful feeling being half a second early for a bus and not 10 minutes early.

I told you my missed bus story, didn't I? You missed a bus? At the Toronto Mini Believes. I was the earliest player on earth. 3 p.m bus yeah we got an exhibition game in hamilton i'm there 259 the bus is gone yeah me and uh me and another player john craighead i think now, like, what do we do? Go up to the office, feeling shame.

Cliff Fletcher's there. Says, hey, Carlton's going. Oh, yeah. I told you my Carlton story. Carlton the bear drove me to Hamilton. I couldn't believe you could see through the costume either. Carlton probably wasn't even going, and they were like, this will just shame the boys a little bit more if we send them with the mascot. Oh, did I feel.

The pit in my stomach, the moment I didn't see the bus was, I'm done. In college, we used to, you played Friday, Saturday nights, and then you'd have to leave. We played in Alaska, so we'd fly out Sunday morning. So we'd always be leaving the hotel at like 5. AM, you know, early and you go out on Saturday nights. So the move was to be packed up and to pass out on the bus. That would be at the hotel to make sure you're not that guy late for a bus.

That's going to an airport, just stinky bus full of and half drunk boys the other horrible bus story i have is i'm in the american hockey league with hershey we're going on like a 17 day road trip they hand us our meal money i'm looking at like i don't know maybe close to a grand yeah i go sit in my seat. I put the little brown envelope on the sill where the vent is. Yeah. Down the vent. I mean, I would tear the bus apart.

Oh, no. I'm thinking no problem at all. Yeah. I'm going to tell the bus driver, where are your tools? I got to take a panel off. He starts to break out laughing. He's like, yeah, let me just take apart my bus, pal. Yeah, just sit down and pass the hat around.

See if you can get some loose change for the next 17 days. By the way, he probably did have a way to get in there easy. Oh, guaranteed. Yeah, he found that money. I think by the end of the 17 days, he went shopping. He had my meal money. Just wearing a Gucci belt driving the bus i mean listen there's few things in life that are as easy and as respectful as being on time i could not agree

more it is a massive priority to me i mean it's a great statement about how much you value the other person's time not five minutes early or five minutes late. I am the type of person that will rush around my house to leave to be 15 minutes early. I'm like, oh my God, I got it. Allie's like, what are you doing? Like, you don't have to be there and she'll be late. It's just, it's a rift.

It's like, I can't be late for stuff. It's a border. It's bad. It's bad. I should be able to be five minutes early for something and not feel like I'm 25 minutes late when I'm five minutes early.

It's bad. I believe they call that anxiety maybe i cannot get out of a parking lot and go to the first tee and hit i'm horrible you can't just go play i can't just feel comfortable enough like even if i don't hit any balls but but I just have 10 minutes, 15 minutes, just to get off the highway. Just make sure you have four tees, a ball mark, a ball marker pair, a glove. You got the right balls. Go there, have a coffee, hit a putter, too, and then go out. But I agree.

Trunk slam and sprint into the first tee. Or you're playing with a guy in a foursome who's not there, and the starter's looking at you going, okay, let's go. Where's your buddy? We're like, come on. We got a schedule here. Listen. It's a sickening feeling too. Shout out to Jeff and Madison,

two of my buddies I play golf with. They're painfully late for tee times all the time. And I'm there 25 minutes early, grinding the starter. Being like, okay, these guys, you guys have your foursome. You can go ahead. It drives me nuts.

Let me ask you, Kipper. Do you have the hockey dream uh anxiety dream about forgetting a glove or you can't tie your skate to get on the ice or you all the time my still really my hockey dream my my recurring dream i'm 56 and i'm waking up the other day and i cannot tie my skates yeah oh i had the exact same dream they're forever and i know the game started yeah and you're like one sec coach i'm just gonna do this quick and i lace breaks or you just can't find your glove or what does that mean i don't know if everyone has it it can't be that abnormal but i have one about producing too where i show up and i have nothing but maybe that's not a dream.

Any dream doctors out there, please. Break us down. We've got a contest, Blitz. Oh, yeah. A little rivalry train here. Ooh. So Molson Canadian wants to give you and a friend the ultimate hockey fan experience through their Molson Canadian rivalry train. This includes a round-trip train from Toronto to Ottawa to see your Leafs take on the Ottawa Senators. Boo.

On April 1st. Boo. to Ottawa to see your Leafs take on the Ottawa Senators on April 1st. With food and beverage all included at the game as well as an overnight hotel accommodation. To enter, all you have to do is tune into our show, Real Kipper and Born, this week and listen for the code word, then text it in to 590-590. Today's code word is actually two words. Text RIVALRY TRAIN, that's RIVALRY TRARYTRAIN to 59590 right now for your chance to win. We have one last code word tomorrow, so be sure to tune in, and you must be at least 19 years of age in Ontario to enter.

So that read is so perfectly executed. It's unbelievable. I was just thinking that. We should have it recorded as a drop, and then he can just, when the new word comes in, take it from there tomorrow. Do you remember last year when he started reading it? It sounded like this.

Oh my god. He's come a long way. He's come so far. I really appreciate that, guys. And he's wearing a little Buddha hat, too. He looks good, too, today. Yeah, you know, when you come in with nothing, you just wear a little Buddha hat to make sure that it keeps Kipper happy. Are we going to break. Yeah, you know, when you come in with nothing, you just wear a little Buddha hat to make sure that keeps Kipper happy. Alright, are we going to break?

Yeah, let's hit a break. We got nothing to talk about. We're going to break. Let's break. Don't go away. Just hang out and we're back after these words. Breaking down the top stories in hockey and Elliott Friedman every day. The Jeff Merrick Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple,

Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. The question that we didn't ask Don Waddell when we had him was his hotshot goalie prospect there, Kochkov. Kochkov? Scored his goal in the American Hockey League, correct? Yeah. According to Justin Bourne, I didn't see it, but yes.

Then he went, like, crazy. He went berserk. Berserk. Did he go full Tuca? Yeah, he went mental. And then the other team said, yeah, not going to celebrate in our eye like that. And their captain jumped him. And skirmish galore.

He gets ejected. Played the same team the next game. Got ejected again. In the warm-ups. He's mitts off. Kuchetkov's looking to fight. The other team gets kicked out of the the next game too see that i love this guy that's way better than pitching a shutout oh yeah yeah you can keep your shutout i'm gonna score and fight talking

about this shutout 10 years from now but everybody's talking back to back hey how about this kachetkov he's mental yeah i love him so i just reading some of the youtube comments while you guys were uh we're in a break and uh somebody said that sammy has nightmares of calls dropping but i will say three great lines today you know i thought i thought don waddell's line today was as strong as it gets still clear as strong as it gets and then jonesy again two really good lines for me today. It's the type of thing you only get, that only gets brought up when it goes wrong.

So shout out for just a great week of lines. Yes, thank you. All right, we got a day to go tomorrow. Anyways. We cursed it. Anyways. So you guys want to talk some more Leafs? Yeah.

Very much. The one thing that I did focus in my article today in the Toronto Star was Morgan Rielly and just the need for him in the next 18 games to have some sort of stretch where he's back. Now, what exactly is back for Morgan Riley anymore? Important to establish that. What is... Where are you going to be comfortable?

And ultimately... What would you say? You do. Thank you. Derek, great drop in. Is he offensive? I think he is. Without a doubt, when he's at his best,

he looks like a 60-point man. He's got two goals and 30 assists for 32 points which is how many games in 50 games 49 actually he's sixth on the leafs in points by the way that's how much it falls off after the top five it's pretty i believe they would call that a precipitous drop but we don't see we don't see a constant threat out there offensively no no is that what he's looking for when he plays to just be involved in finishing plays is that is that his focus you think in the last little while i see i don't know i don't like what do you want him to be i feel like there needs to be a clear establishment of that from the team. Like, do you want him to be up in the play?

Do you want him to be a rock on the back end? I want him to influence his shifts. In a positive way. Yeah. Pretty simple. Just make the right decision every time. Just. When you think about number one defenseman, number two,

whether they're playing 20 minutes, 25 minutes, some of them can play half a game and there's just the influence that they have for half a game. Yeah. And it just doesn't feel like he's influencing his shifts. I challenged the other day, just chatting with david amber i said you know the lightning's d has some question marks and his point was well headman plays has to get half the game and sergachev plays half the game for them and you know it's a fair point just in that like

the leafs don't have that guy where you're like okay he's gonna eat up 27 huge minutes for us tonight kale mccarr adam fox and he's gonna have an awful lot compared to other players yeah He's going to eat up 27 huge minutes for us tonight. Kale McCarr, Adam Fox, Victor Hedman. And he's going to have to puck an awful lot compared to other players. Yeah. And chances are it's out of our zone rather quickly. And Morgan's, for me, Morgan's strength has always been his ability to skate. Oh, for sure. Get the puck, wheel it, and go.

Mm-hmm. to skate oh for sure get the puck wheel it and go he's the only leaves uh defenseman that's a minus on the year i don't know if we care about that at all it depends what's the number minus he's minus five okay but you know you look at most guys you know brody's plus six most of their d are pretty steadily and where they are giordano's the best on the team, plus 25. Really? Yeah, best on the team. So, to me. Lilligren's second best, plus 24. Plus minus, to me, only matters at the high end of the low end. And he's the lowest end.

Yeah. So. Also, Zach Aston Reese is down there. I liked the game on, what was it? What was that? Tuesday night against the Devils. Because I didn't really think or notice him a whole lot yeah and i think that's kind of where he needs to not strive to be but

just like have more games where we're not talking if it comes at a cost of him having the big offensive moments have it be that it comes at a cost where he's a little quieter defensive see i don't know i couldn't help but read kip's article and one of the head you know the headlines is or subheads is you know the play of matthews and riley and it's like you're gonna be tampa bay if you don't get good not just okay play but good to great play of matthews and riley that's exactly where i was gonna go is is there a world where you both envision that if Morgan Riley is what he is today in that first round, he's not getting any better, he's not getting any worse, he is just what he is today. Is there a world you envision that the Leafs can still get by in Tampa Bay?

Yeah, I do. I do. I think they've... I don't. They've added enough here to the back end that they can kind of cover up some of his mistakes. I think that's probably a big reason why they addressed it so much.

I love what I've seen from McCabe. I know you talk about Gustafson, what he is, but he can step in and do that power play. You talk about Shen playing a grittier role, more defensive role. That blue line can get it done by committee. There's no one out there that needs to look like a bona fide number one defenseman. They played literally their best defensive hockey the entire year. The stretch that Morgan Riley wasn't playing.

That reality remains reality. And when? What part of the year? Late November to December. Listen listen i understand what you're saying here camp i'm just saying i'm answering your question i do think there's a world they can be but that's a different world than the one they're going to enter in april sammy yeah i know but i'm answering your question i do believe in the group that they've put together if Morgan Rielly's not at his best for them to win. I do.

I do think they can beat Tampa. Boston? Rangers? Another round? But Tampa? Yes, I do believe that they can do it. You don't? I don't, no.

I think he's got to look the part. Who do you want him to play with to be at his best? There, I'm... Does anyone know TJ's full name, what it stands for? I don't believe that Timothy Jones, Terrence... Tommy John. Tommy John surgery. Tommy John?

Tommy John? Yeah. Thomas James, according to Brandon. I'm not focused I think he can play well with Lilligren he can play well again with Brody I'm not

focused on that I'm just focused on him feeling good and having a major influence on the game when he's out there I just want to see him i think in these next 18 games then to be the guy you're talking about he needs to be confident he needs to be skating the puck like sammy talked about him not showing up in the negative aspects but

yeah they may want to let him roam free a little bit and see if he can't find a little something because we know it's in there but if he's best with tj brody then play him with tj brody let the rest figure it out like you have it's so helpful that mccabe can play both sides yes and brody can too listen like i really see a lot of brody in mccabe like i they're very in terms of just quiet pretty smart guys that aren't gonna kill you i really do feel like kipper you got this look on your face when I talk about McCabe. No, I'm all on board with McCabe. Okay. I just don't ask him to do bigger things

than what he's capable of doing. That's all. I think he can play over 20 minutes a night for you in a playoff. I'm okay with that as a top four, but not an influential top two i now you know okay so let's say it's riley have they played riley mccabe yet together no i tried that and that's what i'm dying to see you know there's so many pairs to try that they need to figure it out and to your points like you had 18 games left you want to have it figured out

fairly soon i am that's going to be the most interesting thing for me to watch the next eight games is what sort of pairings and line combinations do they take a look at if you need brody with riley now you you know shens i think shens in in game one or two just talking about the violence of last year's opening games i'm really hoping shelton just kind of takes a little easier i wouldn't mind at all seeing morgan with mccabe yeah okay so morgan mccabe and then you get i watched brian leach with jeff bukabum yeah that guy knew his role to a t and he allowed brian leach who's one of the best in history to just go do his thing they have to try try it. They have to try it next. They should try it tomorrow.

Sorry, Saturday. Saturday. Yes, another game. Day without a game. Yes. They try that, and then you're left with Brody, Hall, Giordano, Lilligren, and Shen to make up two more pairs. Like, they got guys.

It's an interesting point when you look at the elite teams like tonight is one of the most exciting games on the schedule i think edmonton boston really fun matchup you know last game was awesome awesome and mcdavid gets 50 and 100 and they ask him you know about that and he's like just a number we didn't win but you know i'm just a number i mean i'm mr i'm sad all the time because i play for the oilers it's not just a number in hockey no no it's not god he's a grump yes he's such a grump you know i feel like i'm so happy mckinnon got a cup so we can like see his personality because some of these guys just like until they win they're just like grumpy it gets worse and worse so anyway

edmonton boston do oilers get ekholm you know after their six guys you got vinnie deharnais who's played 20 games or something in the nhl and then i don't know you know like the the leafs at least you wanted a depth or numbers of guys they got enough of that now there's at least the one thing you can rest easy on for these fans is depth of nhld i am worried about the power play from a blue line perspective too yeah that's and that's another thing where morgan has 18 games now to establish something with that power play it's the third best power play in the league and there's no there's no influence from that back end if i'm morgan riley and i hear that i'm like no the guy who handles it the whole time my third

best in the league you don't think i have any influence on it i'm a radio host and i agree with you that i think it could be done by most players He just gives it to one side or the other. There's no deception. There's no big shot. But it does get shut down once the team's really established that the threat isn't from up top. Yeah. And it has to go through 34. And over the years, is that just a coincidence that every time, this time of year, the power play starts to lose momentum and get shut down is that

just a coincidence well the the most power play points in the team you know john tavarez has the most power play goals by a good margin um not by good margin matthews is right behind him but it ends up becoming a can john tavarez score power play because morgan's not going to shoot it so you take away the most dangerous threat, which is seam for Marner to Matthews or Nylander who's ever on the flank, take away the seam. So then it's like the thing they leave open is low and they say, okay, beat us with Tavares.

And that gets harder to do and Tavares is good, but that seems like the only option. It's also something they're not going to fix. Can't put it between now and I know the thought of Gustafson being there but you have to put him in a position to succeed

and what does that look like 7D the other thing I wrote today is like you just went and upgraded your bottom 6 and it's better, it's good it's deep so what do you do a game later you go to a bottom five

yeah you know excuse for them doing it now with two forward injuries that were pretty big but in the playoffs i see that right yeah so where is gustafson to uh reinforce the power play in the playoffs where is he is he the seventh d or who are you taking out of the lineup for him to go in maybe he's left wing i don't know yeah you asked in if he's seven um so just quickly on the special teams and how incredibly important it's going to be in the playoffs. So you look at the power plays in the NHL. The Leafs are third. Tampa is two.

Wow. You look at the penalty kills. Leafs, 13th. Tampa Bay, 14th. Just a perfectly sawed-off special teams battle, huh? And these two teams are very evenly matched. We've seen it. We saw it last year how tight it is.

It's going to come down to penalty kills and a goal here and there with your goaltending, and that's why Kippers wrote about it. We've always talked about it, and you can talk about the big boys going away. You can talk about all these storylines, these narratives, but the special teams is so massive, so massive,'re so dead even these two teams again with everything yeah okay so if morgan we know sammy thinks that the leafs can still get by tampa if if there's not a real major improvement between now and then with Morgan. Are you comfortable where

Matthews is right now? Or in the next 18 games, do you need to see him really get her going here? Yeah, it's that. Or is that the

consistency that he's been inconsistent with uh the level of his uh i don't know presence presence great word thank you that's it and that's what it is yeah i i think he has been inconsistent there this season and yes i want to see him find it for running games it's not you know he's not the guy who has the puck that's mitch mitch has the puck controls the play matthews is supposed to find soft spots and shoot it in the net i thought last game he did it well we haven't seen it for a run of games we have seen him handle the puck and hold on to the puck and steal pucks and yeah chase guys down and and all of that that's kind of been missing missing a little bit yeah so i

certainly want to see him find that and i don't want to get to a place where post you know after the year it's like well you know austin's been nursing xyz all year um you know they say he's healthy i thought he looked healthy last year maybe sorry uh last game maybe it's because i'm just in a positive mood today and there's golf on TV and baseball's great again or whatever, but I'm in a positive mood about Matthews, and there is a part of me that's creeping in that once game one starts, there's going to be a flip switched or switch flipped.

Yeah, a switch flipped. I really do think that there's part of what he's going through this year is what we're all kind of going through in terms of the monotony of playing in a regular season if that's the case i expect to see it the next few weeks that little tampa and i'm without the championships right yeah honestly like and but i mean you're playing on a team that's pretty much set in your position and no one cared all year no where you're gonna finish just show me in playoffs the puck wasn't falling for you early so you don't have like a chase of 50 goals or 60 goals or anything like we've talked about before i really do think that

there's a chance in the next little while here and we saw him being a bit more physical against against new jersey like down the stretch here against some good teams i do have belief that he's gonna flip a switch and it's gonna start i do that's you know i don't disagree and then i could see that just a lack of inspiration tampa's been accused of that in past years of suddenly having to find it what's happening right now with them like any leaf fan that's like oh there's dessert like they're they're they're having trouble. You're lying to yourself. You don't think they're going to be ready game one? Like, give me a break.

Yeah. That's just what, it's just, it's what's happening. Anyways. Jason Bucala wrote an article today on prospects for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Somewhere out there in the next 18 games is a start for Matthew Nyes. Is there not? Forgot about that. Yeah. yeah so do you want to hear what he had to say sure i'm just reading this off of his article which is excellent breakdown of all

the of all the least prospects but this is nize is obviously the top one he said nize is most talked about prospect and lease organizations team asked for nize to be included in potential deadline transactions with the least did well not including him in any of their trades nize brings a combination of power pace and skill he's taken his game not including him in any of their trades. Nyes brings a combination of power, pace, and skill. He's taken his game to another level in terms of three-zone detail this season. Nyes has been deployed in all situations at the University of Minnesota. He has a knack for scoring

big goals in the most important time of the game. I like that sound. His offense comes from the middle of the ice, like that as well, and around the crease. He's a load to handle coming off the wall in the offensive zone. At worst, Nyes projects to be a power body in the third line. I'm comfortable saying he will become a top six NHL winger who, when not scoring, will open up space for his line mates

in his heavy games. He's tied for 15th in scoring in the NCAA. And, yeah, his number one ranked Minnesota Golden Gophers are currently competing in the Big Ten playoffs. They play Michigan State this weekend in the semifinals. So, all that stuff sounds like something you'd like to add to the bottom six of your lineup. Without a doubt, you have to, again, when I look at that left side,

you have to give him a look. I wouldn't jam him in there uh with matthews game one but i'd find a way to ease him in and if it if there's any light at the end of the tunnel you roll with it and if you don't if there isn't you you back off it's that simple so we've talked so much about the way they've introduced players. Like, wouldn't you like to see him get a start on a third line or fourth line? Yes. And just say, hey, play 10 minutes.

Show us you feel good in those minutes. And then, you know, we may get to a point where we've got to bump you up to the second line. I mean, he is the pole I saw the other day leading one of the, well, the poll I saw, he was the leading Hobie Baker front runner guy. Oh, is he? Yeah. That's cool. In the conversation. He's having that kind of year.

That's a big deal. For them. So it could be just because we're Toronto and we had people voting in the poll I saw. I don't know. I just really hope that this is not a situation where they're like uh the that monday night against tampa or florida whoever it is in the last week of the season nye's top line with matthews and marner like i could see that happening i can too with the history of the way that keith has handled quote-unquote new toys

i mean he put thornton up there, for God's sakes. Nick Robertson. Nick Robertson. Nick Ritchie. In the playoffs. Okay, I'm sorry. Which one turned out great? None of them.

Oh, okay. So we're going to go do that again then. I'm saying. We're saying. Because it hasn't, it shouldn't. I'm hoping to God he doesn't do that. I don't think he will. I think he's smart enough to not do that sure no i'm not sure no

sure about that but i i think you should yes i just really like he's done it with everyone in terms of putting them in a position to succeed he did it with a riley literally two weeks ago when he came here he put him with Marner and he moved his captain off of center to play him in an ideal scenario to get him feeling good. Like, it's clearly something that they've done. Who was it that was talking yesterday? Was it Futa talking about what they did with Tyson Berry? Was that who it was?

Yeah. Yeah, it's like, you know, they got scorned by how the Babs handled Tyson Berry and they want to put people in the right positions. It's a thing that they do, and I'm concerned that's going to put Nyes ahead of his skis. Yeah, you know, there's... Wait, come on. That's a bunting spot on that line.

But Nyes, yeah, it is. If you don't have bunting there he's there then something's wrong yeah you're talking about tavara's really nice bunting is a top number one left winger yeah but for the toronto mate believes he is yeah yeah no i know nize o'reilly no oh it is no it is down for no that is down because the second line is going to be tavarez right right her foot yarn crock yeah the one of those two because you don't if you're not talking about putting a guy in a position to succeed it's not with tavarez and willie necessarily you know it's probably with a defensive sound guy like o'reilly something like that so that left side isn't a concern for you at all every day the expansion left side

their centers are austin matthews john devars and ryan o'reilly i mean they're they're stronger at some positions than others okay they spend a lot of money in the most important position. I'm not bringing it up again. The most important position of the ice. Until I see it on Saturday night. Yeah, I was going to say. Until we talk on Monday, you won't bring it up again. But no, it's just, listen, their centers are, they have elite depth down the middle when healthy.

So I think you take away from the left side for that. And the right side, you have two of the best wingers in the league. So they have good forwards. I'm not worried about that. It's just I don't know where they're going to put Nyes, and that's what I do worry about. And he's not even signed yet, so could be getting ahead of ourselves. Imagine if they lose, and he's like, yeah, I want to go back and win a championship.

One more year. That's in the desk. Is it? Oh, yeah. Done? Oh, yeah. Done deal? Come on.

So Leaf fans should be cheering against university of minnesota then 100 so sorry he didn't win kid they're playing in the semis for nice and what is the date that he goes to in a championship april 8th that doesn't leave him much time so then yeah there's three games left ottawa toronto sorry uh florida tampa rangers yeah it's gonna be tight here to get him in he's gonna be a hell of a black ace oh boy all right we got uh oilers bruins tonight must watch television that's in boston uh yeah yeah yeah it's got to be in boston they played last time in yes 7 30 yeah some excellent games tonight boys pittsburgh new uh islanders is a huge one oh yeah vegas tampa's a

great game later on you got kings colorado tonight squids in ottawa good good an extra reward points out there oh yeah buddy we grind it click, click. Give me a score. Bruins 3-2. I think McDavid masterclass tonight. They're going to go in there and surprise him. Love it. This is an important one for Skinner. It is.

Is he going to succeed? I got Boston by two. Okay. Our thanks to Keith Jones. is he going to succeed? I got Boston by two. All right. Okay. Our thanks to Keith Jones, Don Waddell, and Sean Reynolds.

Hope everybody enjoyed our show. We're back tomorrow. One more. We'll close out the week for you with Off the Rails Friday with Doug McClain. Give us a rating and review if you get a chance. We'll talk tomorrow. Hey, you know what? I don't think the show sucked as bad as I thought it would.