Real Kyper & Bourne - Prospects and Stars with Pierre McGuire and Ray Ferraro

Episode Date: December 4, 2025

Former NHL coach and front office executive Pierre McGuire joins Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne (4:46) to chat about coaching Nick with the Hartford Whalers, what it could mean for the Maple Leafs closing their road trip with a win over the Carolina Hurricanes, why the Winnipeg Jets' 'problem' doesn't involve the goaltending, if it would hurt the Montreal Canadiens' chemistry and development if they were to call up a prospect like Jacob Fowler, Quinn Hughes landing spots, and how the reported smaller ice rink could affect the players when the Winter Olympics come around. Then, Nick and Justin are joined by former NHLer and ESPN hockey analyst Ray Ferraro (27:03) to discuss the differences in the Leafs and Florida Panthers' rosters compared to the 2024-25 successful teams, the difficulties NHL teams have to go through navigating the salary cap and trade market especially for the Vancouver Canucks, and the path for the Edmonton Oilers to get back on track. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome back in studio. It's the national hour on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, Sportsnet 960 in Calgary, and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. Also available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. This hour of Real Kipper and Born, brought to by Bet, at 365, Nick Caprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. In a few minutes, we'll welcome in Pierre McGuire, former NHL coach, an executive.

Spent a year with Pierre in Hartford before he traded my ass away. Interesting, interesting. Yep. You guys have made up, obviously? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I forgive him for that because I did participate in a Stanley Cup. It worked out okay for you in the end day. It did okay.

It did okay. So we'll go around the league with Pierre. First time we've had him on, I think. Maybe? Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, we've had him on before. Really? I do believe so.

It must have been years ago. I don't remember. No? I don't think so. Maybe we have. We talked to a lot of people. Ray, for R.O., of course, ESPN, we've had him on before. I didn't realize that I didn't think of the Whaler's connection until you brought it up.

Listen, we briefly talked about. this in our leave edition with Justin Williams but okay the uniforms going back for present teams like Carolina and Colorado to put on a Hartford Whaler jersey and a Quebec Nordique

Jersey how does that make the people in Hartford and Quebec City feel? It's a great question. Do you feel honored or do you feel ripped off and I think it depends. I think probably mad i think it probably makes the mess i just think it's yeah i it it would strike a nerve it's like i think it would strike a nerve yeah it's like if someone you're reminding me of something painful i i someone killed your best friend then was wearing his jacket around you'd be like

this is it's not cool man i hate it i don't know about murder but i hate it i hate it i think it's i think it's disrespectful i do i think it's two of those two of those two of the best of all time and I'm not going to pretend to know the history of why they left Hartford or like what the Quebec City let like those are both fan bases that have a ton of money yeah I know for sure but like a ton of tradition and they love their fans their their teams and I just think it's unfair that these other teams that just stole the way their teams get to wear it I don't love it although I like seeing them on the ice it's beautiful but if I was a fan of one of those teams I would hate it I know bunks uh he was a Seattle supersonic stand or whatever

it's like Oklahoma City can't wear those Seattle yeah there's just I mean they do it the NFL too right like the Houston Texans wear the the Oilers jerseys from... Oh, no. The Tennessee Titans where... Anyways, there's a connection. So, I don't know. I just think it's a little weird.

It's not your jerseys. But for the rest of us, pretty cool. Although Carolina's Hurricane's jerseys suck. They've always sucked. So maybe it's a little better that they go to the... They go to the... But when you drop, like, I don't know what Tom Dunden paid at the time, maybe $300,000, $400 million.

You assume the jerseys come with it. Well, they do. You bought all the furniture. You bought everything. Yeah. Everything. It's all. all your stuff now, so go ahead.

Those Quebec Nordique's jerseys, though, look is good. And by the way, it does highlight what a tragedy all the black jerseys are in sports these days. Everyone's wearing black, and it's terrible. Colors look great. Like, you know, I mean, I do like the Black Hawks just went back to their black ones.

Oh, yeah, and Dallas went back to their black ones, and everyone's got to play. Utah's all black. Leath's got a black one. And Leaves got a white one that I forgot to change. I played in the last game in Quebec. the last game before they moved. Really?

Yes. We knocked out the Quebec Nordique in 95. Wow. And it was the last game ever. And we were nervous about leaving. We got pelted on the ice. I got like... Through putine?

No, like... I didn't know you were going with that one. Mustard packages. Like I remember Brian Leach, look at me and go, you throw up? And I'm like, no. It's like I got... Someone pelted me with mustard.

It was like... And then they started shaking the bus on the way out. no way oh yeah it started rocking our bus they were but did they so upset did they know what that was already done it was already done it was already done and uh it was already announced that they're going to colorado who lucky you escaped okay in our first reunion guest let's go to pierre maguire former nchel coach executive you know every once in a while pierre i get to show these guys some video from Hartford and it was usually

a brawl against the Buffalo Sabres or the Flyers and they're like looking at me like God you're such a Neanderthal remember those days I do and you did very well with some of those brawls Nick so hats off to you and you're a delight to

coach and worked hard every single day when people don't know about you is what a great score you were up in North Bay in the Ontario Hockey League. No no no Pierre he makes sure people know you got it Justin you got it but anyways no Nick was a pleasure to work with and it was a tough day when they got traded because we were trying to turn our team around you ended up working out really well for Nick because he went to go on with a Stanley

Cup in New York but the rebuild in Hartford wasn't as easy as everybody thought you know there was a lot of work that had to be done there and I got fired two years after I got hired there and it took five years before they played a playoff game again so that was seven years of rebuilding. You know, we just had Justin Williams on in our Leaf Edition hour, and he talked about, you know, Carolina and the work that they have to put in. Listen, we got a lot of teams like Carolinas or hard, like, it's amazing how much work you got to put into your club to get it to a point where it can actually contend,

A, Pierre, because it's like, as much as we look at the Rangers and the Leafs and some of these organizations that can print money you know that's not the case for a lot of places including what we experienced in hartford i look at what's gone on in florida with the panthers in particular nick just to address your question it's been a fantastic job that billy zito and his staff have done there because you think about all the long the empty seats for all those years i mean i was working in nbc we'd go down there and cover some of their playoff games and there weren't too many but when we did the building was half empty i mean what billy zito and all those guys it done in Florida is amazing.

The same thing, if you remember, before Mr. Vinick took over Tampa, you know, I know they had their cup run in 04, but there was a lot of messy times after 04 to about 2011, 2012, and now they're back on it. But you're right, you're absolutely right. It's hard in a non-traditional hockey market to make it work. It really is. Pierre, we've been, you know, we got you in our national hour here. And so we've been talking about our Canadian teams and how last year we had five in,

Calgary had 96 points and was right on the fringes this year it's a little dice year what do you make of the the state of things right now the jets on the outside oilers outside leaps outside a little perilous times here this is a huge night for Toronto by the way Nikki and you Justin are talking about Carolina if Toronto goes into Carolina wins tonight I think they're back on and I think we're going to be you know speaking more positively about the Toronto Maple Leafies I don't know what's going on in Emmington the team defense is awful everybody's pointing at the goal And I get it. I talked about the goal tanning for years there, too. But the truth of the matter, Justin and Nick, and I think you guys both know it, this is more for the audience. Their team defense isn't good enough. And their star players aren't buying into competing for team defense. And that's a big problem for them right now. For Vancouver, it's just not enough bodies. They're going to have to make some moves, obviously. Winnipeg, they really miss Hello Buck. And everybody knows they're a one-line team right now. So they're ganging up on what Schifley does, what Kyle Connor does, what Gabe Valardi does. a big night last night in Montreal, that line, but, you know, they still lost the game. So, yeah, that's a problem. I really like what's going on in Montreal. I really like what's going on in Ottawa right now. And for, you know, the biggest thing in Calgary, I think everybody knows, they don't want to use the term. But I think you guys would agree that that's a rebuild that's going on there.

Right. Last night, J.B., on our national show, did the game of Winnipeg in Montreal? And I know that, you know, you've gone on, I think it was Tony. and Lappie that you were on with the other day talking about the Montreal Canadians and I think you know the culture in Montreal was discussed and what

I think the last couple of weeks have been like in Montreal where the bar has been risen no question about it and if it doesn't get hit they're starting to hear about it a lot more but is it really just down to goaltending right now is the hiccup right now that we've seen

in Montreal lately Nick I think the biggest and you know this from your playing days, there's not a lot of depth down the middle there, and some of the guys lost a bit of their identities. So they need Jake Evans to play like Jake Evans played last night against Winnipeg. He has not been playing that way. They need Josh Anderson to play the way he played last night.

He has not been playing that way. They're mostly a one-line team, a lot like what you see from Winnipeg. When you got Caulfield and Suzuki, and now they put Slavkowski back on that line, it gets going. and they got, you know, a lot of good stuff happening. I don't think it's just a goaltending.

By the way, Nick, down the road, I can say this with a lot of comfort. Jacob Fowler is as good a prospect as I've seen, and I'm not kidding you since Marty Bourdure. When Marty Breder was 16 years of age, I tried to recruit in a play for us at St. Lawrence University before I got to the National Hockey League, and I knew right then there Bauder was going to be great, and I've been watching Jacob Fowler since he's been 17.

And they're so similar in terms of their approach to the game, and Montreal's got this kid ripping it up in the American League right now in LaValle so long term their goal tennings okay I don't think the goal tenings the biggest problem for that team right now. Their end zone coverage isn't very good and some of their guys have underachieved this year to start. There was a lot

of people in Montreal screaming for a call up here in the last couple of weeks would you ever do something like that just to give them a taste or it's just messing with development here? Nikki, I think you know how important development is so I thought

after one game, maybe you give him a sniff because he doesn't require waivers to go back. But the truth of the matter is, I think he's perfectly situated where he is right now. Their team's extremely good in LaValle. They're going to play a lot of big games, just like they did last year before they got eliminated by Charlotte in the semifinals of the Calder Cup run, which Charlotte obviously ended up losing the Abbotsford and an amazing Calder Cup final. But the truth is that Jacob Fowles is going to be special. It's going to be good for a long time, Nick and Justin.

And I wouldn't mess with his development. I'd keep him down there. Pierre, what do you make of, it feels like there's more trade rumors than ever and less trades happening. It feels like a lot of teams want something to happen, can't get it done. Is it just the wrong time of year?

What do you make of this season and perhaps the Olympic break, its influence on why things are happening the way they are? I think you're going to start seeing some movement. I think they're going to see some movement with some of those bottom feeders in the West right now. You know, you can see where Calder is right now. You see where St. Louis is right now.

Huge game for them tonight in Boston. You see where Nashville is and some of the higher profile players they have. Vancouver and what they're going to do potentially with Quinn. I think we're going to see the market start to shake open, Justin sooner rather than later. To me, the biggest thing with all of this stuff is in the east. It's just, I don't think I've ever seen it this tight after U.S. Thanksgiving in 37 years. So it's going to be really interesting to see what shakes. out. But the truth is

that I do believe the market's going to start to move sooner rather than later. You're watching and listening to Pierre McGuire, former NHL coach executive broadcaster. Pierre, let's stay on Quinn Hughes for a second here. You know, most recently with Mitch Martyr, they were fortunate

enough to get Nick Waugh at least as something coming back for nothing. Are we past these top free agents and I know it's still a year away for Quinn Hughes, but are teams way past now risking watching a guy like that leave for nothing and if you are clear on his intentions if you're fortunate enough to read the tea leaves can we start hearing real real noise

about a trade involving quen hughes it's going to be really important for vancour to get more than one team involved whether that one team is new jersey or detroit it's important to get two teams involved when you got a situation like a Quinn Hughes because if you only have one team then it doesn't augment the value of the player you've got Brian Burke was so good at this when Nick when we were in Hartford Brian was amazing at doing that and stretching the market and getting the most for players that you wanted to move out and I think you really got to pay attention to that if you've Jimmy Rutherford has got a lot of experience and obviously Patrick Alvin in Vancouver they've got to get at least two teams involved in this and create a

marketplace where somebody's bitten against somebody else. You know what? Traditionally, I would say it would be amazing to think you wouldn't end up in New Jersey. But you look at Detroit in particular, and I've talked about this on other shows, the fact that it's close to home, the fact that his parents are there, the fact that they're an up-and-coming team, the fact that he's really comfortable with some of the people that are in the organization with University of Michigan ties like Dylan Lark and a J.T. Comfer. You know, there's a lot there. There's a lot there. So I think they can get two teams and more involved than I think eventually he gets moved

and Vancouver Town can get left hold in the bag with nothing in it. Pierre, we're looking for teams to get out of this pack you're talking about so tightly packed together. The tops of the divisions, there's a couple of good teams here. Colorado, Tampa, Washington,

Carolina, have any of these teams outside of Carrot, Colorado? Because I know Colorado is one. Have they separated themselves from the pack or is it just Colorado above the rest? Dallas is coming. Dallas is playing really well, Justin. I mean, you've got to look at it and what they've done. One of the big stats that I try to look at is goal difference. I look at it every morning. Colorado is a plus 50. Dallas is a plus 24. Washington's a plus 27 after the big win last night. Tampa's a plus 18 and Carolina is a plus 16. That's about it. And so there are a lot of teams that need to play catch up to get there. But I think that Dallas is a very real team. I'm surprised at how well Tampa is. play with all the injuries they've had to deal with, especially in the back end without heading in, without Charnack, without Ryan McDonough, and obviously up front without Braden

point. That's been substantial, Justin. And no, I think we're going to start to see some breakout, especially in the east. I think in the east there's going to be more breakup. But to say only one or two teams are good right now, I'd say that'd be a stretch. I think this is probably the most parody we've seen in a long time. And there's no lead pipe since to win the Stanley Cup this year. I'd really believe that. Pierre, you and I were fortunate enough to experience the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver. I know there's a few of our broadcasters are looking forward to one coming up in February. I also know you got your ear to the ground, whether it's the NHL office or what players are talking about

or what you're hearing in the broadcast world. What do you make of the rink situation right now in, in it? Italy and whether or not this thing is truly touching go on getting it ready and prepared for February? The league office doesn't mess around. You know that in collective bargaining. They don't mess

around. They play hardball. I'm shocked that this has happened and we're only finding out about it now. Somebody clearly dropped the ball, whether it was Bhutan the ground in Italy, whether it's somebody from the AAHF, whether it's somebody from the NHL office, somebody dropped the ball somewhere. This is unacceptable.

Truly is. Which is unfortunate because who doesn't want to see you know nick you just touched on it so well i think 2010 was amazing i'll never forget calling that game with great chris cuthbert and him calling the golden goal of jerome mcginlet is sidney crosbie and i was down there and i'll never forget sid screaming at the top of his lungs in a crazed building going iggy iggy and jerome gets in the puck and he puts it by ryan miller and the whole place just explodes That was a magical moment in Canadian history, not just athletic history and Canadian history. And just to show you why it was, 26 million Canadians watched that game.

It's the largest TV audience ever in Canadian sports or Canadian TV history. It shows you how much passion there was. But to think that the first time you could have NHL players back in the Olympics after 2014 would be in Milan and this would happen, something wrong. something seriously wrong happened and they got to try to fix this as soon as possible but Nikki I think you know as well as anybody the league office doesn't mess around if they say there's a potential for them not to go

they probably mean it yeah that's terrifying I think a lot of people are awfully excited about the actual event and I am too how do you feel about the effect it's had on the schedule feels like maybe a few more injuries than some people would be comfortable with it's unbelievable on Justin I can't believe the amount of injuries and what's gone on

And, you know, you feel sorry, before the season even starts, there's Sasha Barkoff. He's been a three straight Stanley Cup final and obviously played in the Four Nation last year. And I think that Four Nation took a lot out of a lot of guys. Nobody really wants to talk about it. But the Kachuk brothers in particular, Austin Matthews, look at some of the carnage that came out of that, to use a term for my great former partner, Doc Emmerk, when we worked together at NBC, used to call it the carnage factor. Yeah, it's unbelievable. I've never seen this many injuries in such a short period of time.

And I've got to tell you, and you would appreciate this, Justin. It's not just in the NHL or the AHL. It's happening in the East Coast League. It's happening in the NHL. It's happening all over. It's unbelievable the amount of injuries that's going on around all of hockey this year at the professional level. All right.

One more for me, Pierre, and that is Connor Bedard, man. He is making a strong case. Is he on Pierre McGuire's Olympic team? He's definitely in the discussion. Macklin Celebrini and he are definitely in the discussion. Nikki, you might like this. I have Tom Wilson on the team. I don't know if you do or not.

Yeah, I do. Yeah, I got him as a lock. Yeah, I got him as a lock as well, Nikki. Especially if that rink is small and they decide to still go. That'll make a big difference. I think the biggest question's going to be is who's going to not be on the team from the four nations last year. And that'll be heartbreaking for a lot of those, especially the Canadian guys.

I don't know if there'll be that much roster turmoil. with Team USA or with the Finns or with the Swedes, but I could see some major roster of turmoil with Team Canada. Great stuff, Pierre. We really appreciate your time. I love visiting with you, Nikki. Thanks a lot, Justin. Great talking to you.

Hey, Justin, great job last night. You did a really good job on there last night. Appreciate that, Pierre. Thanks for coming on today. Thanks for your time. Got it. My pleasure. Former NHEL coach and executive Pierre McGuire.

Just one more thought on the injuries. You did do a good job last night. Thanks, pal. I was watching. Yeah, great job. Great job. I did doze a little bit in the second period, but I caught the intermissions. It was a good game.

It was exciting. I like Lowry and Jack Ice, square and off at center ice. Players only meeting. Yeah, she goes out there, throws a hit. Yeah. There are two teams that looked desperate to win, which is nice. It was nice. Just a little follow-up on just not the injuries.

But, like, what is really crystal clear now more than ever is, like, we just we don't practice anymore no that's very true we don't like it's not even remotely like even carolina you guys mentioned off i don't know either on or off the air that they haven't played since sunday sunday they got one practice and i'd be shocked yeah they don't i don't even think no no they don't they you know what they do they have video practice now yeah they go in and they look at tape that is their practice and I get playing every other night. I think the injuries are going to just get worse.

We haven't even hit, I think, peak-crammed schedule yet. And next year, they're adding two more games. Oh, great. 84-game schedule next year. Is it not? We watch teams. That's the thing that's happening. You're right.

There's portions of a hockey game that you go, okay, you know, you don't, you're right. You don't practice anymore. You know, it's funny, though, to the average fan, I think it's like, That means people mess up and there's more breakdowns and that leads to chances and they don't like it any less. Yeah, but you still want to see three passes in a row. That would be really good. Bring back the two-line pass.

What? You're not allowed to do it. It's like baseball. You just play. You just play. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds amazing. I would have loved that.

College hockey, you practice all week long. I'm telling you, there's sometimes when this, like, having a good, practice for me anyways it felt really good yeah yeah i was usually sweating out the booze so oh my god sorry junior hockey was great really good i really would have liked at least a couple of days knowing that justin board yeah just for a little bit right listen i love to give it to you maybe don't introduce them to us now yeah it's too late that man is dead um what was gonna say i had something i wanted to say but i forgot so okay cool do you want to do game time sure sure So we can get the break and get the...

And then you're going to remember what you said. Yeah, we'll see. It's game time. Presented by Bet365, visit the Afflatest Odds. And see why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must have a 10. Plus, Ontario only, please play responsibly. What was it that you wanted me to look?

Do you remember? Under shots. Hmm. That seems like it might be hard for me to look up quickly. Yeah. We'll have a look. Okay. Well, I mean, it would be easy for somebody knows how to do this,

but I'm not the smartest guy on Earth, so I'll have a look here. I'll tell you, I'll start by telling you what the actual line of the hockey game is. Okay. Would you like to guess what the Leafs are as underdogs tonight? Plus 140. More. Plus 160. More.

Really? They're plus 175 tonight. Wow. The Carolina Hurricanes are minus 210. So, yeah. The first time I think I would bet on the Leafs. Really? I mean, it's a good number to get.

Yeah. I'm not going to be able to come up with that right off to top here, so I'm not going to be able to do that for you. That's okay. But yeah, so just to tell you, the Carolina Hurricanes minus, Minus 210. Toronto Maple Police, the desperate Toronto Maple Police going in there at the end of a road trip. Plus 175. Some other good games on the ice tonight. Oilers back in action going with Kelvin Pickard tonight against the Seattle Cracken.

Somewhat of a surprising move to me. Stuart Skinner's actually had a couple good games in a row, but they're going to Pickard. They are big faves on home ice against the Cracken minus 205. Cracken plus 170 in the money line. A little bit of value there for me. But, you know, Oilers got to figure it out sometimes. There's got a story here. They're going to get one.

Sometime. Yeah, they got to figure it out. And what other one did I want to bring up? Oh, yeah. Florida hosting the Nashville Predators, they are minus 185 favorites in that game. Surely that's one they got to win. And my Florida ticket guy texted me today.

You can row 16 blue line tonight, cheaper than a tank of gas. So 36 bucks. You have a Florida ticket guy? Yeah, the guy who I was talking about yesterday that texts me about the, we were trying to get World Series tickets. We were desperate, okay?

We were trying to find tickets to World Series. Tickets nice and cheap tonight again in Florida, just like every other night. That was game time presented by Bet365. What? That was game time presented by Bet365. Visit the athlete of Stodz. See why it's every ordinary, Ben 365.

Must be 19 plus. Ontario only, please play responsibly. Hey, don't throw a curve ball in there. What are the odds of Sammy throwing a chief shot at Florida in his game time? I'll throw me anywhere I can get him. They got a win tonight against Nashville. Yeah, they'll be really well attended. Nashville's got, like, they won three out of four.

Those fans are desperate for a win. They just, they're desperate for a win. Those fan are super desperate. Oilers have to beat Seattle tonight. Have to. Good Lord, yes. They've got to turn this thing around. We should have parlayed Little Edmonton, Florida.

They're both winning tonight. So that's two out of three games against Seattle. Against Seattle, it's an eight-point swing. You know? Think about that. Oh, yeah. Right. A couple of wins there.

A couple wins. How about Pierre saying that Fowler is the best prospect he's seen since Martin Mordor? That was an extremely confident delivery on that. I mean, he's having a sick year in the minors. What are you? He, Jacob Fowler has a 920, say, percentage right now, a 2-15 goals against for the LaVal Rocket. Yeah, they can't Fowler ties? I don't know.

I don't know. But that's a, call him up. Dolbish can't make a save. You know, it's Montembo. Mountain Bowes been no good. Could this guy just be Canadian? Like, God, he's American, too. It's like every goalie is not Canadian.

Anyways, we should go to get to Ray. Okay. Take a quick break. Ray Ferraro. ESPN hockey analysts. We continue on our Hartford Whaler Hour on the Rail Kipper and Born show. All righty.

Hey, it's Blake Murphy. And I'm Matt Bonner. Join us weekday mornings at 11 as we break down all things Toronto Raptors. It's the Raptor show on SportsNet 590, the fan. and wherever you get your podcasts. As a reminder, this hour, Real Kippin, brought to you by Bet365,

Nick Kippreels, Justin Boar, and Sammy McKee, all right. It's not waste any time on our Hartford-Waler reunion tour. Welcome in Ray Ferraro, ESPN analyst, former NHLer. So we had Pierre McGuire on earlier. Okay, yeah, he was after me. Yes. No. Yes.

Before you. No, he was in Hartford after. Yes, we weren't all together, of course. But, you know, it's, hey. Did you guys play together? Work with me. We did in New York. Oh, New York.

Yes. And Ray still, to me, has one of the funniest lines ever in the history of the game for me. Okay. Yeah, it was, you know, Dick Todd tried to pump us up with, like, our money segments and, you know. Constant updates. Oh, if we keep them to one goal, we get another $350. It was pretty good. It was good money at the time.

Anyway. So anyways, Dick basically leaves, you know, he's finishing his big, you know, cheerleading thing with us. And he says, all right, boys, let's go out there, peckers in the air. and Ray turns around and he goes you know you work your whole life to get to the NHL and that's the help you get that's it right there I love sitting by the guy who immediately undercuts it takes out the coach's knees when he leaves the room but the thing is Kemp didn't give you the context of it because it was right

before a game like Koli Campbell's the coach he gives us our spiel Mike Murphy was the assistant he gives us his spiel and then Dick would give us an update on the bonuses. Yes, and that's, hey, and that's the only time we paid attention. What did those other two guys say? Exactly, exactly. How's your schedule? I think your last game was Toronto and Florida, if I'm not mistaken.

And let's just start there, Ray. What did you see out of two teams that we had no idea would be in the standings at the bottom of the East Conference at this point of the season. Well, I said during the game, like to refer to the Panthers as the two-time Stanley Cup champions really is kind of, it's false. The only thing two-time defending about them literally is their jerseys. I mean, like the game they played, they had seven forwards out, six that are out every night, and then Verhege was out with the, you know, his wife was having a baby.

and so they're they're literally trying to hang in there till they can get some of these guys back. Paul Murray said maybe three of them in a couple of weeks and then another three of them a few weeks past that that gets you kind of to the All-Star break or the Olympic break and you know and then you hope that you're still within touch to to make a playoff run. I mean like that's that's kind of what their season is right now. I thought they play hard. They play as hard as they can. and that's what they are at this point. They're just decimated.

The Leafs, I thought, played a pretty good road game. I really kind of liked their game. That new line, the third line, played really well together. For people that don't know, you know, in Dakota Joshua very well, a couple of years ago, he had what was his big year, 17 or 18 goals in Vancouver. He started out as a healthy scratch. He went through camp.

He wasn't in great shape. Had a slow start, and Rick Tock had sat him out. And it wasn't until after the scratch that, or a couple of scratches, that he started to play. Like play like he did last game, like where he skated, he's on the body. You see he's got pretty nice hands when he gets around the net. That was a nice goal. And I was like, wow, that looks like the Joshua of a couple of years ago. Now, to start of last year, you know, he was diagnosed with testicular cancer and, you know, last year basically became a write-off for him.

It was, you know, fortunately, he's healthy, but, you know, the year was a right-off. And I guess I thought he would have a better start, but that line really could be a weapon for them. I really, really like them. I think we've seen about as much of the five-forward power play as we'll see. Now, you guys were both forwards. When you get back on the blue line, you remember when you had to cover for a D? You couldn't get out of there fast enough, at least me.

I'm like, I hate it back here. I don't like it. It's uncomfortable. And that's what I thought Matthews looked like up there. Like, I know they're going to, you know, they made a change later in the game. And it just didn't, it didn't seem to fit. If I skated backwards,

if I skated backwards 100 feet in my career, I'll be shocked. Right. Terrifying. Hey. Hey, I actually played the point in college on the power plant. I shot it into Mason-Raman shin pads and he beat me up the ice by so many zones that they never put me back there again. He could have had four rebounds before I got back to him. The one I remember was I was back at the point covering up for somebody and there was a loose puck. We were in Edmonton and coffee jumped it, right? So he starts skating out.

So instantly I turn around forwards, and I'm sure it looked like we were in a skating race. We were both skating forwards the same way. I'm like, I can't turn around. If I turn around, it's going to be like what an eight-year-old looks like going backwards. Yeah, I hated it. And that's what he, to me, that's what he looked like, just uncomfortable, unsure. I thought they played a really good road game, but I mean, the holes there guys are, they're pretty obvious, aren't they? I mean, they're a little, they're thin in that top six.

A lot of things have to go right for them if they're, if they're going to be as good a team as they hope they were going to be at the start of the year. You're watching and listening to Ray Ferraro, who does wonderful work with ESPN, also on Sportsnet covering the Vancouver Canucks. What do you make of the recent news about pretty much everybody's for sale except Quinn Hughes? Is that something that will work in their favor ultimately? Or is it just a scenario where you watch a fan base continually, I don't know, feel frustrated, Ray?

Well, they're going to be frustrated because, you know, I mean, the inevitability of that is, you know, is pretty evident right now. I mean, they came into the year and they knew they needed to add a centerman. they couldn't for whatever the reason was and then in the same game they lose two of their four centermen, Philippino and Teddy Bluger and so now you're you're in a full out scramble

to just field four NHL centermen and it's easy to say and I know what happens all the time and it's become a pet peeve of mine is when fans maybe because they're just emotional and they don't understand but they're like why don't they just go get somebody who are you going to get like who's available

which general manager is going to say here take one of my sentiment it's just like the Leafs looking for another top six forward which team is going to say to Brad for a living hey here's here's one of my top six forwards so say you can identify somebody now you've got to make a trade

and we see how difficult it is right now especially since I think the byproduct of the cap going up is teams are not trapped anymore. They have room. They can hold on to players. They don't have to bury a player in a trade somewhere just to get some cap relief.

So I think that's really her player movement. When they made the statement, I guess it was last week, the unrestricted free agents are, you know, if you're not a playoff team, cross the league teams try to unload those guys at the deadline. Right now it's a stock market. If you have guys available, maybe you can jump the market.

Maybe you get a deal for a player that you were going to deal in March anyway, but you might get a good deal now because a team realizes, wait a minute, I'm one of two or three bidders right now. If this goes another two months, I might be in against seven other teams. And so that becomes you try to strengthen your prospect pool.

Everybody loves to say, oh, rebuild, retool, re-whatever, but nobody wants to understand the pain that goes with it, the losses that come with it. There's a great saying, nobody cares about the labor pains. They just want to see the baby. And unfortunately, when you're retooling or rebuilding, there's going to be labor pains. And that's kind of where they are right now.

They've got to get younger. They've got to get faster. You know, you've got to try and develop a younger player base. And that doesn't happen overnight. You know, it's tough. Like right as the salary cap is. has gone up. Some of the Canadian teams,

like the Leafs aren't going to be able to draft for a couple of years. And if you're no good, it's bleak, right? And so I'm kind of thinking to Edmonton, too, here. They're another team who it's like, you know, your fans go, we'll just get a goalie. Just get a goalie. You go, okay, who's the goalie? And you start, okay, who do they want?

And you start trying to do the math. And it is a challenge. But maybe they, of all teams, need to get a little more desperate on that. Well, I mean, look, they've pretty clearly, they've gone as far as they can. the last couple of years and you fall one game short

and then two games short and it almost feels to me like they're further away now than they were then. And I guess if we go back to the start two years ago when Noblock took over they were further

away than they are now because they fired their coach and it's but it would be in my mind a fool's game just to say oh you know what it turned around two years in a row, it'll turn around this year as well. They're in a tricky spot because, you know, the need is pretty obvious. I would say there's also a need on McDavid's wing. You've got to, you know, they're trying to a young Matt Savoy there.

And I think he's done okay, but he's got three goals in 27 games. You cannot have a guy with three goals playing with Connor McDavid. Not if you design yourself a Stanley Cup contender. so they sure go get aggressive i agree but with what how many assets do you have they you start trading away first round picks as they have in the past and you know the the asset pools pretty thin and i i believe that's where more than a few teams find themselves is they can identify the need but they don't have the assets to interest somebody else i i've said this and i've become you know it's become almost a standard line if if the fans in the media can identify a

need probably the management has noticed if they've they've they've probably figured out oh this is not good enough now they got to go make it happen and it more and more it because i think becomes harder and harder to find players when they're talking about adding two teams where are the players coming from get your skates out hey right you know what if they're if they're If there was, well, same as when I played. If there was no back checking and I wasn't too small, I could really do so. I think this could be the time. As long as they don't do anything in Edmonton and you continue to put the weight of the world on McDavid and Drysidal.

And we've got this compressed schedule and we've got the Olympics that is going to put a ton of weight again on McDavid's shoulders here. Is there a real concern on like what's going to be? left here out of McDavid when it comes to March and April after three consecutive years of trying to get to a stand like a final? Chip, I think that gets overlooked is the cumulative wear and tear on these guys. Florida, I think, I'm going to have this number wrong. The game against Toronto the other night was their 340th in the last three years. Good Lord. like oh really they got a bunch of injuries like of course they do you know it of course they're banged up the number might be a little lower 320 something like that but it's like a you know mac david's playing 22 23 minutes a night on average over hundreds and hundreds of games and i just i don't see how it doesn't take a toll here's one other thing to consider so say you're thinking about okay i'm going to blow out some assets here because i need a goalie or

this team needs a defenseman this is in your in the west i guess everybody's probably noticed Colorado's record so far like do you have enough even if you add something are you going to be able to beat Colorado like are you going to be able to hang with them right now they look like Boston a couple of years ago in the regular season when Boston had 132 points now they lost in the first round but man they look like they could never lose Colorado it looks like they'll never lose again. Of course they will. But man, that would be a tough spot for a manager, too.

Colorado could legitimately beat teams before they even play them in playoffs. Just have them go, ah, we're not going to try to compete with that. Well, we're not adding at the deadline. How fast do they look? It's crazy. McKinnon's plus 30-something. I saw, I think his goals four and against five-on-five are like 37 to nine. yeah it's like it's just not really a number that you can even know get your head around there

the one couple things here so two year or last year rather just I guess earlier than this they they changed both goalies like who does that like they went out and identified two guys they thought could make their team better like that what a bold stroke yeah by by chris McFarland to go and do that. And he instantaneously changed the way the team felt about themselves. And they got better goal tending than they had. You know, so I really look at them and I'm like, man, that's a, that I think that's the spot where you look at your team, you're a good team.

Okay, I'm going to be pretty aggressive here. Now, they didn't give up a whole bunch of assets, but man, it was an aggressive move. You know who else has done a great job? And, you know, if you're going into East, you're going to have to get through. Washington somewhere they've straddled this line about staying relevant with ovi and getting younger and drafting well and they're they've got some monsters on that team huge huge guys and then you know last night Ryan Leonard gets two goals like they're there yeah there's a lot of room out there for Ryan these days oh my gosh how'd you like to stand and skate in the shadow of

alexi produce yeah the guys like the guys is big as a refrigerator he's a monster Leonard had some quote where he's like he's the best player in the league talking about Protas he was like I tell him every day he's the best player in the league just believe it last one for me just we've talked to Olympics

every single day talked Canada every single day for I think a lot of people thought that Connor Bedard wasn't ready wasn't going to be there you know these young kids are making a push he had a game the other day where I just felt like I finally went he can't leave him at home

where are you on that I was a celebrating Rini, yes, Badaard, no, for sure. I think I am, not I think, I know over the course of this season, I'm starting to look at their ages less and less. Yeah. Because these kids come into the league, they're not scared. They're well seasoned, if that's possible at their age.

I think they are capable. Here's the other thing, and why I would really strongly consider Bader. So you've got 14. forwards on the roster they don't all have to play so what if let's say you picked him as forward 14 and everything goes great and you don't need to use him well then you weren't going to use whoever the other guy was either i would be worried about taking a player of lesser abilities and then run into a scoring drought right and then you're like well we can't now we can't really score but what if you could drop your 14th forward in and he could play on the power play he is i think guys i think that

part of his game that has changed the most for me is he used to be an independent contractor out there like he kind of had to do everything himself and we never saw his playmaking so much it was always you know go down as far as you can and shoot it with that great shot but now he seems like the ice is opened up for him maybe it's slowed down for him he makes great plays great passes. He's a very good passer. The shot, I mean, is exceptional. I'm thinking as we'll all end up arguing about the last four or five forwards

and the last two defensemen. Everybody else is probably pretty, you know, pretty much a lock to get in there. But I would add my tail end of my roster would be skill. I think it's going to matter. I think there's a potential. that you're going to need somebody to drop in and maybe give you a boost offensively. What I don't think matters,

because we'll probably not get to it, is the rink that's three feet too short. Like, who cares? It's not like it's 17 feet, it's three. And you've got to hand it to my Italian brethren. Like, you know, one of the most famous buildings in our country, our homeland is slanted. And so now we've got to rank that's 3.15, George.

Come on, fellas. Exactly. Do we not no metric and imperial by this time? Come on. Awesome stuff, Ray. Really appreciate it. And, oh, by the way, great job on those national commercials there, pal. Oh, yeah.

Thank you. You know what, Kip? You should look into Kintech. You should look into some support. I see you don't check your full. in the breaks because I sent you a picture. Did you? Yes.

And yeah, you'll take a look at the picture. I will. There could be some support needed for you too. I will for sure, man. For sure. Just one favor, though. If I got to stare at your bare feet, can you run the commercials after I've had dinner? Is that okay?

You know what? And it was the summer, too. I don't know. Your feet were never looking better than that. And that's the best I got right under the golf shoes and into the commercial. Great stuff, man. Thanks for joining us, Ray. We'll talk soon, guys.

Be well. Ray for our time to you before the holidays. Merry Christmas. See you, too. Thanks for your time. All right. Take care. Good stuff.

The dogs. The dogs. Boy, you have to. I got a great golf game. No one would ever want to look at my feet. No, it's ever. My kids are just like aghast at what's happening there. What's happening?

What's happening? Long, sticking toes. Mine aren't too bad. Mine are a mess. Mine aren't too bad. People say I have dancers feet. Yeah. A nice arch. I don't know what to say to that, pal.

Are you a flip-flop guy? Oh, no, crock. Croc guy. I love crocs. Crocs through and through. But I've actually gone now to the holeless crocs, so they're like clogs. But they're crocs. But anyways.

So, Matt Maristram, our producer over SportsSet, says to me, asked Pierre McGuire about the comeback story. yeah did you get that too well yeah so we're in we're in hartford we're getting filled in by the montreal canadians after two periods paul hungren's just ripping us in between periods and pierre's the assistant coach the associate coach and there's good cop bad cop and you know what he's supposed to do is after we've been ripped open he's got to come in and be positive so he's like okay we're down for nothing here's the game plan we're going to score a goal every five minutes,

and we're going to win it in overtime. So sure enough, we bounce one off our ass, two minutes in, and we're down for one, and Pierre's so excited that he's running up and down the bench going, boys, we're way ahead of schedule. And I turn around and I say to Pierre,

you want me to rag the puck? You want me to kill the clock, get us back on schedule? That's funny. Oh, man. That's funny. 4-1. And we're somehow way ahead of schedule.

I do love. That was fun. We had a few laughs. I don't say nothing. I don't think I enjoyed anything more than the camaraderie of being the guys and weighing in on your coaching staff in private or, you know, on the bus. Guys would never do that. Like in the back of an Uber or something. But the hardest part of coaching is that you know what happens and you just have to not care.

Coaching and goalies probably. But I don't even know why we have assistant coaches anymore. Just go to your laptop. That's the assistant coach now. Go go get your laptop and watch whatever you need to watch. That is an old guy taking the other one. Get rid of those things. Get one of those spreadsheets going.

Hey, hey, get rid of the laptops on the bench. They're probably watching on their Nintendo. Yeah, on their Facebooks or whatever. Our thanks to Pierre McGuire and Ray Ferraro. Justin Williams in our first hour. Whole slew of games, pick yours. And we're back. tomorrow, off the rails Friday?

No Justin Gordy in tomorrow. Whoa. Yep. Bringing in the left. Yep. St electricity. Yes. Have a great night, everybody.