Real Kyper & Bourne - Prospects & Pipelines with Jason Bukala

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne are joined by Sportsnet’s Jason Bukala (0:25) to discuss Matthew Schaefer’s case for #1 overall in 2025, Montreal Canadiens prospect Ivan Demidov shining overseas, J.T. Miller’s diminishing trade value, if the Calgary Flames should stand pat, what’s fueling Montreal’s extended hot streak, and much more. Afterwards, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee debate how much protection star NHLers deserve and if the Carolina Hurricanes should part ways with Martin Necas to acquire Miller. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's kick it up for the national hour on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. Wherever you're watching, listening, Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. Glad you're aboard. This hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by bet 365, Nick Kiprios Justin Bourne Sammy McKee and in Jason Buccalah who has done a nice job on his Studio home studio. Yeah, right really really cool But you know we ditched that to bring you in live and in color right in the studio. Thanks for joining us

You know, it's sorry for your luck. emo mob today all blacked out fellas look at us. So I take it like your schedule is going to kind of calm down. I know you were just out West and before that of course World Juniors. So like what's it like right now? Yeah, it's been a good run. It's a busy time of year guys. You go to World Juniors obviously there's some draft eligible there this year, which

was nice because that's a little bit of an anomaly. It's a U-20 tournament for the most part, but good to see how some of the top prospects around the world are tracking and then you get out of there after eight or nine days. You know, as soon as Canada gets eliminated, we've talked about it. It's like the air kind of goes out of the building a little bit but having said that then the top prospects for the OHL last week I just came back from out west the weather was fantastic out west the Canucks tried to ruin the weather as much as possible when I was out there but but failed to do so. Well before we get to that maybe we'll just

do a little bit of the prospect talk so you were looking at some of these guys here what are the updates who are're looking at some of these guys here. What are the updates? Who are we looking at for the upcoming draft? Who do you like? The one thing that everybody should be aware of, in my mind anyways, is that there's not going to be a change at the top. Like Matthew Schaeffer suffered that injury at the World Juniors, a broken collarbone. He's had it surgically repaired. He's not going to be back healthy until April. Eerie would have to be in second round of playoffs. And I don't think that he's a team Canada guy coming off

an injury like that. I wouldn't personally risk that. Going to the draft if I were advising him. So he's the first guy though. Like he's number one overall. Yeah, he's separated himself. Top pairing NHL upside, all situations. 28 minutes a night kind of guy.

Like it's super elite. Like super elite. I don't want to say he's Kale McCarr or anything like that, but let me tell you, he impacts the game like Kale McCarr did when he was playing in the A.J. back then. So then it goes from there. What wouldn't teams right now be going, we could really use one of those franchise type of guys and like, what are we doing here? What are we chasing here? Let's be more like Florida who in November declared themselves, right? No, a non-playoff team and sellers.

Who's that San Jose? No, I'm sorry, Philadelphia. Yeah. They're not fooling anybody. I don't care what the standing says. I'd love to add this guy. Yeah, no, that's, that's curious. And then if you needed the luck of the lottery to some of these teams, you know, they have no luck at the lottery. But if you're looking at those teams, well, let me put this back on you guys for a sec. As I start doing the tour, you know, you come out of last year's draft and you have your list and you know, I have some biases, but I had Ivan Demidov number two, okay? And I sit there and I watch the Chicago Blackhawks this year, and I know how Demidov is tracking in Russia, and he's going to come over here.

And Lev Shunov's a fine player, don't get me wrong. But Demidov falls all the way to five. Caden Lindstrom, CBJ takes him at four, he's got the back problem. I hope he comes back, it's the whole nine years. But I'm looking at Chicago specifically, and I'm thinking to myself, oh, you might be in the wheelhouse for one overall this year. You could have went Demidov and then Schaeffer. And let me tell you something.

There's a huge difference between Lev Shinov, who they did draft, and he's playing in Rockford right now, and no disrespect to the Haggins kid. So when you start pairing out your decisions as you try and build up an organization it can come back to bite in a hurry. Trying to pick up your phone without seeing a Demidov highlight from the KHL. I've seen 20 KHL highlights this year and he's been 18 of them. He's on track for 20 plus you know in the KHL that doesn't happen for those young. He's 19 years old. And he's played at SCA, which is, you gotta earn it there.

You gotta earn it there. All right, we gotta get to, for all our fans at Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, your close and personal, up close personal thoughts on what's going on there on the ice and of course, off the ice. Yeah, yeah. So as much as you like to break down teams on video or watch, you know, when we're in studio we're doing whatever we're doing, it's really important to get the games. You have to get the games and you take it all in. So I get there real early last the Kings game.

I did that one in person. I was in Everett on the Saturday so I broke down the other game after. But my point is I get there early and I'm watching this Vancouver Canucks team warm up. It was atrocious. It was so bad. You know I'm watching the Kings. I turned to Ian McIntyre, our great writer out there for the sports night and I said Ian this could be nothing or it could be something but take a look at the body language of this group and then look at that group. Okay they're joking around with each other, they're having fun, you know, the whole nine years.

So anyways, 10 minutes in, it's three cob for LA and you know, the whole nine years. Their preparation, guys, as pros, and I'm just talking about as pros, making big tickets. Let me put it to you this way. If you don't like, if you're a brain surgeon and you don't like the guy who runs the hospital, the director of the hospital,

are you gonna mail it in the next day on your next patient? You know, it's certainly not, right? So if you're making eight sheets or whatever you're making and you don't like a guy across the room, my give-a-you-know-what meter is zero because my family of four is paying a thousand bucks for you to come in. This team doesn't prepare properly,

it doesn't compete enough consistently, and it's leaked out of the room we all know what's going on there some of them don't like each other but do people who walk the street and pay big money to watch these professional athletes play even care about that I know I don't my expectations be a pro so okay I'm sorry but like are we pointing the first finger at the players and then the coach and then the general manager and then the president? I'm not going to your work. Talk it. I'm not even going near it I'm where you going great. So I think that

That in my experience anyways, because we've had guys over the years in my experience They didn't necessarily all get along like when I was in Nashville back in the day and we load it up We had like Paul Korea Jason are not we had like bunch of, it was a little bit of a mix. It was like, you know, a chemo team and it was our captain and he kept it together. He was awesome. But my point here is that if you can't infiltrate it, then I think that professional athletes are creative enough to let it escape the room because they can't control it anymore. You know what I mean?

There's a leak when you can't control it. And that goes up the food chain to management and the president's Chair for me where it's gotten to that point where you feel like we aren't I'm not saying they're not listening to them But they're trying to run a franchise and they're probably saying to them figure it out Until the point is they can't figure it out and now it leaks out and you got this catastrophe on your hands It's it's funny because you and I are working hockey central tonight and talking about Canucks Oilers and Marzia our producers, what do you want to talk about tonight? You know, with Vancouver, what do you talk about?

I mean, how can you talk about anything else right now other than they're going to trade JT Miller, their highest paid guy is upset, a new captain, the coach is upset, the goalie is not in the net. Like it's just, it's chaos. How do you talk about anything else so in my opinion something needs to Happen quickly you wrote I believe about or at least talk about you know potential trade what they should do how to go about It how do they approach this now with Miller well that's I've I said last week I was a Vancouver. I was hoping by Monday something would happen something almost happened on Saturday apparently

There's more than the New York Rangers that are interested in this player. And here's the thing with JT Miller, when he's on, this is a hell of a player. Plays fast, he gets after it along the wall. You know what he could do, I don't have to tell you. The fact of the matter is, it's like a couple years and then something goes wrong for some reason.

This would be his third trade, okay? Think about it. Fourth team. Yeah, fourth team. And if he goes back to the Rangers who originally drafted him in 2011, that was under a different management watch than Chris Jury. But my point is that this, what's going to happen here, this has to happen, first of all, and it's a depressed value.

You're not going to get, on paper, you're going to lose the trade. If I'm another team in the league, the league isn't about giving you a depressed value. You're not gonna get, on paper, you're gonna lose the trade. If I'm another team in the league, the league isn't about giving you a lifeline when you're struggling. They're not gonna overpay for the assets. So you're gonna get what you get. But having said that, I use Carolina as the example because I think Carolina would like an upgrade.

I think Rob Brindon-Moore can coach this guy up to be, because Tocket did until now. This isn't a Rick Tocket problem. So I think Brindon think Britain more can do that and I included a goalie in my equation just because Carolina they can't count on Freddie and they got you know So I sent C lobs back in the deal because he's not playing in Vancouver So, you know why not but knee cash coming back the the other way from Carolina They kind of had a he's on a two-year at 6-5 or something like that. He's a bargain next year. Yeah

Totally, he's not after that. But but you know, here's the thing about marty nikas I'll tell you going way back to his draft cycle guys and even his underage He would hit it out of the park from like, you know in europe they start in august So from august until after the first international break so called december. Yep Shot out of a cannon lots over a point of game. Second half of the season, it would kind of go like this, it would come to a screeching halt. And back then, when you're watching a guy develop,

you're thinking, strength, right? You know, because he was tall, but he was really, really thin. But now, look at him, like, he was second in the league in scoring at the beginning of December. He's in the top five anyways, and he's been pretty pedestrian since then. So there's some risk reward to his what I'm saying, Kipper, but if the cap's going to go to, like I read somewhere that it could go to as high as 105 in a couple years.

100, oh. It could go to 97, 98 next year if they negotiate it. Next year. Ellen Walsh, I guess, in his podcast today or yesterday said that it'll be 97 next year. That'll be the number. And he said by 27, 27 or 28, it'll be 97 next year. That'll be the number and he said by 27 or 28 it'll be 105. Wow. So that changes the landscape of everything.

And that has an effect. If there's insight and information on that Intel, that's going to have an effect on this trade deadline. Obviously free agency come July. Trades in general at any time. But I'll get back to the Vancouver here thing because I'm kind of spitballing and getting off. They're not going to win the Stanley Cup this year. This Miller thing's got to get resolved itself.

And then the other thing is Bester. Bester is the other elephant in the room. I can tell you, I like Brock Bester between the hash marks, but I don't know that Tim Kerr could play it today, Kipper. You know what I mean? Like he could score all those goals from certain areas of the ice. And his tracking up and down, if you're not insulating it properly, is he doesn't, this B game is just okay.

Okay. It's not the matter of the player. He does what he does, but he's a UFA. So that's got to go out the door as well, you know, because you can't, you're not going to extend that. You're going to manage the asset. This group's up and down like a Teeter-totter they don't give management enough belief to you know, make it better necessarily for this year

I don't believe so there's gonna be lots of change there and they're gonna have a lot of money and that brings it back to The coach don't fire the coach. Mm-hmm. Like green was there bujo was a stopgap Would anybody disagree that Rick Tocaka created a culture there? They played a certain way. Oh, listen, I don't know. He may not. They won't fire him, but he could certainly say I'm out of here. He's got that option for this year, whatever's going on there. Is it a team option? Am I right or not?

I feel like it's his option. Is it not? I think he's got an out after this year. I'll put it this way. We've all signed contracts before. When there's an option on the table, if I'm not happy and you know it and it's still your option, you're probably not extending it. Yeah. No, an option is an option.

So we've discussed about JT Miller being maybe a devalued asset. So what can Vancouver Canucks truly expect here, knowing if management feels like we're not going to win now anyways? What is it? Is it a blue chip prospect with a first rounder and a third component? What can they expect? Well, the knee cash one would be the best case scenario in my estimation. The ones that I've heard about out of the Rangers like Heedle and Ryan Lindgren is a heck of a player. I don't know what's going on there, but he's a heck of a player.

If they could ever, I can envision. I think they'd do that deal. The Rangers would do that tomorrow. So I agree with you. And then I heard when I was out there that it came down to Protection on the first round pick like where the slot was gonna, you know Probably lottery protection or top ten protection or whatever the case may be so that right there is where I say to myself as a manager if Let's say the picks 17 when I take 17. I look at my I'm just coming out of my amateur drop means

I'm looking at our list and I'm saying, okay, how much of a difference is there between 10 and 20 or 25? Let's just get crazy. So you got a 15 player gap. This is how it works. And then I turn to Chris Drury or Patrick Albee and I say, there's not a lot of difference. We're splitting hairs between player 10 or 11 and player 25. So then I go back to New York Rangers, I say, I'll take that deal.

It doesn't have to be, you know, you can lottery protect it, it's fine by me, because I believe that where you're gonna fit, my list makes sense anyways, and I'll do it. Where I'm hearing that it broke down was the opposite, that they got a little greedy, Vancouver on the lottery protection side of it, and that's exactly, I come back to the beginning

of my conversation here. JT Miller is a depressed asset. If he was playing at his very best, it wouldn't be lottery protected. When he's playing the way he is right now and there's noise, we're not giving up a top 10 pick for it. We'll do all the rest of this, but you're going to have to eat something here. The other thing that stands out to me is looking at this Canucks situation, everything that could go wrong has gone wrong this season. You've had the Miller situation, Patterson's not been as good and Demko's been hurt.

They've just, you know, Hronik's been out, Hughes at one point. So they've had struggles there. They're going through a really tough schedule. I think you're going to talk about that tonight a little bit, right? A nine game stretch of just like murderers row teams. So my point is there's a chance that they're the one point out of playoffs. There's a chance to turn this thing around for them. Is there not like if they move on from Miller Demco's in net and solidified

they get someone back for Miller who's pretty good. The schedule calms down like still a pretty good team here. No hundred percent. I believe actually that even if they come out of it if they make the deal and I believe they will if they make the deal that and I believe they will, if they make the deal, that less will be more, believe it or not. Because I think the mood, like I look at it like this, when you're in a room with teammates

and you're not as happy to go to work every day, you're probably 10 or 15% less of what you really can provide as an individual. It's human nature, right, when you're not happy, I'm not gonna perform at the top of my game. So if you can move out noise and get the culture back again, if you can get 10 or 15 percentage points of better mood, better action,

now you tow it again, you go in the right direction. So I think that that's one thing that, we never talk about that enough. We always talk about assets and players and the best player, whatever else, but there are times that you have to rescue your room that you absolutely do to get the best out of the macro instead of just looking at the micro all the time. We're joined in studio with Jason Buchla who does a terrific job with Sportsnet

also Pro Hockey Group and former NHL scout so not lost in this equation should be Pedersen. Yeah. And how disappointed they are with this guy. Buddy, I'm going to tell you something. He didn't piss a drop in that warmup that night. It was, it was disgusting. I was so upset. I was ready to pull on Mike Keenan. You guys ever hear the Mike Keenan story in the KHL? He's coaching Kuhnlen Redstar and he's up in the top watching them warm up and he gets so upset with their warm up, he grabs from the press row some water bottles or whatever and he runs down the stairs and he starts chucking water bottles at his own team to get them to warm up. Not Mike.

Not Mike. That's how I felt looking at Fedderserson warmup the other night. And then, you know, the thing was Swedes, anybody from Finland, like even with Barkov from Florida, we have him there. But he, Pasternak's warmup is, I believe, non-existent too. Pasternak's actually could be worse. Yeah. But, you know, the thing is like when you're, last week,

they needed that game against LA. That's a four point game. Like, prove to me you're ready to play, okay? 100%. Anyways, they needed that game against LA. That's a four point game. Prove to me you're ready to play, okay? Anyways, he has not been very good. It's a calendar year now, guys. It's a calendar year. Was it a situation where he felt like

he had to sign this deal? Does he really want to be there? I don't know. I'm not a, you need a couch and about two weeks of therapy to try and figure it out. You really do. You really do. Like, Nylander here is laissez faire, but you know what you get.

He's that explosive guy. Pederson can be that guy, but I don't know that he's a guy who wants to go to a movie on the road with the guys. You know what? He just doesn't... There's something missing. I can't think of a less Rick Tocket player than Pederson. Yeah. And that's an issue. Yeah, that's an issue. What do you think of the room? You know, the story that like he asked the Canucks

he wants to stay. He's saying that I want to stay here. Like, is there any part of that could be the team knows they're going to keep them that it's like almost like PR, like let's clean just whoever knows this is the guy he just wants to be here. Yeah So where's that? Where's the issue right? You don't sign on the dotted line if there's any Issues that you weren't really happy So yes, so much noise too much noise too much noise on that one You're gonna make 11 5 whatever is 11 2 5 11 5 whatever it is You're gonna you're gonna cash those kind of checks, figure it out. So Colorado, let's just stay in the Western Conference for a little bit.

Colorado, I don't know for whatever reason, man, they just cannot get on a roll at home. But we believe that they're solidified in a playoff spot here, which really just, I don't know, in our opinion, feel like it's Vancouver and Calgary here. Right? So where are you on Calgary and status quo and just let this group ride it out? Can I just say something on Colorado real quick? I'm fascinated to see where the random next contract goes. What do you want to hear?

Where do you think it's going to be? Why wouldn't it be? It's 13 and a half or something. This guy's gonna- Well, why wouldn't it be? It's 13 and a half or something. Like this guy is, people here, we don't watch them enough. This guy is a monster who scores goals. Anyways. And where is Colorado not to like realize this?

And where do they think that they're gonna stick to their 11-5 offer right now. It's not happening. It's not happening. How dependent on McKinnon is Rantnan? Well, that's a good question. I've seen this, let me put it this way. It's not like Hubert O'Barkoff.

It's not like that with him, okay? Because Rantnan's such a big rig. He goes and gets it, he creates his own space, he rips the pillow from all over the place. So he's gonna be successful wherever he goes this guy. Now he's awesome and I don't mean to take away from him, but he's got seven empty netters this year. You know that's seven, seven to 25 is a pretty big number.

And you know what else I'll tell you about empty netters? If the coach didn't trust you, if the coach didn't trust you to be on the ice to protect the lead, you're not getting an empty netter. But as far as Calgary goes, my thing with the Calgary Flames is do nothing, believe it or not. The group has earned the right to add to the roster. They have, but I'm more of the opinion to continue to build up scar tissue there

Okay, this is a good group. That's clear. They're pulling in the same direction together I don't want to upset the apple cart and bring somebody in you got some guys been blocking shots with his face for two months To try and get as close now. He's playing eight minutes instead of 14 minutes You know how that goes like so I say keep throwing it the same way they got 17 million in cap space I believe their their Covers are loaded for draft capital now They're gonna have to relinquish their first rounder to Montreal this year in the monohand deal Maybe i'm doing this off the top of my head doesn't matter but they got two other firsts as well

So they're good. They're they're set and they're goaltender future number one is You know and i'm tired to hear about the size thing too, but about this one He stops the hear about the size thing All I know is big men get hurt in the NHL. That's... he may be the perfect size. You know what's interesting about you saying that it just occurs to me. When was the last six-pointer six-put one guy, goaltender, that we heard about having bad hips? Yeah, I don't know. You see Saros plays a lot of hockey.

Saros is wiry, but when we hear about it, don't we all hear about the six-five, six-six? We can go back forever, when we're guys out. It's like these Newfoundland dogs. It's like the bigger you get, the quicker your hips break down. The harder they fall. Like I'm telling you, there's gonna be something towards that.

Yeah, yeah, no. Valley cat, if you're listening pal, where we're checking in on this next week. We want figures on- Size to injury. But I'm sticking it out with that roster. Like I'm not moving Anderson. He's got another year left on the deal.

I think he's part of the solution going forward, not part of anything else. Weeger's been really good. Hubert O's much better this year. The mood around that group- How about Kadri, who's at that age right now where he's not gonna be you know he's not gonna be around. Is he you think with with the new building and that that core group? I don't know I don't think it's fitness is you know an issue.

I guess listen you get to that age anything you know from one year to the next anything can start to happen Right, but or you get a boatload for them right now, right? That's the that's the play That's trying to poach them for the leaf. Yeah. Yeah That would be a hell of a fit like right to bring that back over here like here We are talking JT Miller going back to New York after all those years I mean a cadre for the Leafs and his number, the thing is, and it's so enticing, isn't it?

You got Tree here, you got the Calgary Flay, whatever. They got 17 million and I guarantee he hasn't retained more than one slot. Like they haven't been retaining any money in any of their trades. So he's got slots to do that too. So, but what do you give? Like, are we gonna get into that conversation if you're the Toronto Maple Leafs?

What are you giving for that? You said a boatload. What are you giving? I mean, I got to give up Easton Cowan to start. And Sammy, right? Sammy. Sammy. I don't know after that.

With Riccio and, sorry, with George Russett. It's one of your blue chip prospects. And that's it, roll the dice. Yeah, yeah. And build around it. I see the strategy. Yeah, I see the strategy. It does not make sense.

I'm just saying that, you know, this is why we would meet for more than half an hour at our pro meetings, because I would say and you would say and then. How long do those go in? Go on, because I could see you guys sitting there. You got to think about every conceivable scenario week 10 days Lazy like what if this happens and then it's I right now my meetings would last four or five days

But we had 10 zoom calls before we got there just to eliminate some of the noise Because here's what we're gonna talk about you're like narrowing the agenda trying to narrow it down I want some of the guys who are gonna be be really, I want everybody to have an opinion, but I also don't want to waste my time. I don't want something to come out of the blue on day three of meetings to reset. You got to be organized when you get there. But this kind of conversation is going on, absolutely, for sure. I saw Connie at the World Juniors with Dave Nones at the hotel having something to eat,

and they're ecstatic about their group. Yeah, they work hard man. They like their team. We saw Columbus beat the Toronto Maple Leafs, earned another two points. They are in a wild card position. Ottawa is still there. Montreal is in, they're out. Boston, where do you see this in terms of, maybe we'll start with Ottawa.

I think it was reported, Elliott maybe mentioned on his Twitter there that Josh Norris will be out for the next two or three games. What happened? He fell on his face or something? Like, I just learned that right now. Yeah, he slipped and fell forward. Anyways, that guy can't buy a break. No, that's tough.

Hey, where am I on Ottawa? First of all, it's good news that we're sitting here almost in February and we're having this conversation. They're playing meaningful games this year and their fans tell me that's all we wanted. Well, really? Well, I hope they want more. I think the bar's changed.

Yeah, okay, I think it should, yeah. And our needs are some playoff gates. Yeah, yeah, well. Got a lot of home revenues. Zach Hyman just helped him out a little bit there with the purchase of the ref He gave him he gave him a few Okay, I'll keep the lights on for a while. But anyways the the whole thing there is that Predicated on the goaltending, you know, you're gonna still ride this out, but all marks gotta get back

They just placed him on long term, but paper paper transaction. He's on the trip. He's eligible. He's on the trip Yeah, they said he might I read something today that he might come back tonight. He's not That I brought him tonight Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's why they did it to make room to get Perron back. Okay, so and that's a good stuff space but yeah, listen, they're hanging around I Don't know if it's they need see that's totally different than Calgary, right? They if they can add to get in they their need to get in is different than the Calgary flames right now So I would be looking at doing whatever it takes to make that happen

But if my goaltender is not gonna be my guy like if this going to continue to be a thing and I don't have a crystal ball, that's a problem. I also think Ottawa's ceiling is higher than Calgary's just based on Brady Kachuk and Stutzla and like elite talent that I don't know that Calgary has up front at this point. Oh yeah. The Kachuk brothers are, they're kind of cold right now, both of them. Seven or eight straight now for Brady without a a point and in a he's waving off penalties Yeah, I love that is Is Florida at times when you watch them just a team that has played a lot of hockey the last three years They don't look the same to me. They don't look the same to me

You don't think it's just Biden their time to get to playoff or they're just by take a look at it. So think it's just biding their time to get to playoff? Or they're just... Maybe, but take a look at it. So if you have a minute to pull up their stats page, take a look at the minuses on that team. Okay. It's one thing to not be playing up to the best of your ability. I think Verheggie is like minus 21, fellas. On a very good team.

So they're getting by and whatever, but the detail of the roster overall it's there's a lot of... Sorry, Verheggie's minus 18. Okay, he's come up a bit. You know why? Because he went to the Western trip. Because he went to San Jose and Anaheim and everything else. That is bleak. Yeah, yeah like when you go through it. So and Bob's just been he's been okay. Listen, do I want to play him in the first round of play-offs? No, hell no. Forrest Lings plus 21. How can you have such a discrepancy between one player to another

on a team that's still very competitive? And no one else is double digits plus, that's crazy. People argue about that plus minus stat. So even if I saw that in half, say, okay, well half of it's kind of an anomaly, he's still plus 20 in the other direction. no well that's the thing is that plus minus is not an exact science we shouldn't have empty netters in there or whatever but no yeah yeah I always think it's a good if you're the best or the worst it

doesn't mean nothing right you know right there there's something to it so just call it goals differential and the nerds will like it more that's a good one yeah thank you players wanted out a plus-minus. Oh, yeah Tough beans. No, no, it's too easy to calculate Then the goals differential will come to life if that's how you know Why they want it out too because when they go to Arb is comes up in Arb. Hey, listen, it's uh, it's there There are still bonuses out there that like if you do this and this and you get money. Ryan Graves grandkids are going to be eating off his wealth from a year he was plus 40

in Pittsburgh. He signed that Colorado deal. He was the plus minus leader. I think it's only entry level contracts that I think are left with a plus minus bonus. But still. Do we have another time for another question here? Yeah, I don't want to leave. We got nowhere to go.

Yeah, you're right. Just hang out. Montreal, Montreal Canadians, December 3rd, Patrick Laine returned to the lineup. December 19th, I believe, Alexandre Kerrier, that's a terrible French accent, was added to the Montreal lineup. And since then, they're the best team in the NHL literally First place in three and one or something. Yeah What? How much of this is smoke and mirrors and how much is this is like Montreal's founded here?

This is an actual team to be reckoned with they absolutely split the switch. It's unbelievable Yeah It's a it's a like if you didn't if you didn't break down a 20 game segment here in a 20 game segment there Whatever it is now you'd be shocked. It's unbelievable. What so they settle out on the goaltender? Okay, that was a big one But the carry carrier carry a I think he's a heck of a player. Yeah, this kid is a dog on a bone He's only like 511. He's built like a fire hydrant, but he gets after it, right? Sorry, Nashville couldn't use him or a key for Sherwood or are we gonna have a national segment here? Don't poke the bear cuz you know me I start pulling at the mouth over here

I got a lot of times on waivers, and he's top pair in Columbus. Oh buddy Anyways, very trots might not be a GM. He might be a coach Yeah, the Preds don't have a first round pick dating back to 2015 on their roster. They've traded them or waited for whatever reasons. It might still work. I don't know. But anyways, with the Montreal Canadiens, yeah, the buy-in has been phenomenal. It really has been.

Everything's switched. So again, I'm not a stat nerd, but you start to break down some of the high danger stuff. Look at Dovish. Dovish is five and okay. Big rig comes out of Ohio State. Love this kid at Ohio State. It's always fun as a scout to look back five years ago and see what you were writing about him

and see if it's still kind of, so, and trust me, you're wrong way more than you're right. But when you do get one right, it's kind of fun. And he's bang on. Like this kid, he could be a one going forward there. This is a good, he could be like what Stoller's is for for the Leafs when he's healthy that kind of you know situation He's really good But the thing about when I was looking at his stats

They're only averaging like 23 24 shots against over those five games the Montreal Canadiens Which at the beginning of the year guys it was fire wagon seven. You know they were giving up a lot, right? So there's a buy-in there good for them Then there's a culture there too. There's a culture. There's no doubt. Yeah curious and curious to see what they do Savard Yeah, you know, are they gonna sell or not? Cuz I wouldn't they're in the picture here. They're right there. I wouldn't just to go back on Zach Hyman here. Yeah, the the talk for back. Do you guys want to go back on Zach Hyman here, the talk is $21 million for a Junior A team. And I'm thinking...

Sorry, for a Junior A team? Oh, I don't know anything about anything. That's kind of franchise fees now. $20 million, $25 million. And that's a mid-team, isn't it? No, no, this is the OHL. OHL. Oh yeah. Twenty, 25 million. And that's not even, that's a mid team, isn't it? No, no, this is the OHL. OHL. OHL.

OHL. Yeah, OHL. Oh, okay, so not junior. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, what do I call it? You got major junior. Major junior, okay. All right.

So, major junior. Listen, maybe that's an old 1980s term. It could be BC, Ontario difference. But like, this is just, this is kind of like a mid team. This isn't like the London Knights or Red Deer here Like we were we're continuing to see big big dollars out of this thing. I Have heard you you would know better than me because you're way more dialed in with this stuff But I heard that that fee and it's being litigated right now for a couple of American USHL franchise

It's a company on Terry hockey league. Did you see the USA hockey is being taken to court now by a bubble? Was it in Youngstown? $30 million to join the CHL. Yeah. So, put that in perspective, I'd buy that game for 21 if I had to change instead of buying it. Every federation controls like their country. So USA hockey has the say on if these teams go and play in Canada and the other way around too. Like we've got American teams in the CHL, but that's with

the blessing of USA hockey. That's right. That's not coming this time around. That's right. So, but how far are we from a North American Memorial Cup? Well, I think it's inevitable, personally. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I just, I think that what you create is not as many teams in the States, the USHL, like I don't think you have as many. And then the US National Team Development Program, TBD in there, like I don't know if

they're feeding. Because the whole feeder system has gone now to you go major junior college there might be some of those guys at the program we say I'll go give a you know go to the program sure but I'll go play major junior for a few years before I go to Michigan or whatever the case may be so you got a Super League not as many teams you bring it in although it's popular coast to coast in the states right now hockey and then you have four you have four you get that that whole

i'm not saying that they play against each other you know maybe you know all those pockets just like the dub just plays against the dub and whatever and then they all you know no more of this wild card team for the whl fascinating stuff hey books awesome stuff coming in today we really appreciate it nice to see you guyss. Alright, we'll catch up again soon, okay? Thanks. Jason Buchla, Pro Hockey Group, Sportsnet, NHL Scout in Florida and where else? Nashville. Oh my gosh. Awesome stuff, pal. Thanks for joining us. Okay, we'll take a quick break. We'll get Sammy back. We'll get into some NHL news and notes still morning to come from Real Kipper and Bourne. Hey, it's Matt Marchese.

And I'm Mike Fuda. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world. Weekdays at noon. It's the Fan Hockey Show on Sportsnet 590 The Fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Back on the Real Kipper and Bourne show as a reminder of this hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet365. Jason Buchla. Game time. Okay, we'll do game time and then I'll get into a little bit of our conversation which I thought was quite fascinating with books. It's game time. set up by bet365, visit the app for the latest odds

and find out why it's never ordinary. Bet365, it's 19 plus, Ontario only, please play responsibly. Busy night on the ice tonight. Looking firmly at the game in Edmonton that started a week's worth of conversation about certain people getting suspended and tears and the world's smallest violins all over the place, but the Edmonton Oilers are hosting the Vancouver Canucks tonight

Edmonton Oilers big faves on home ice minus 185 in that matchup plus 155 for the Canucks on the other side of the money line I get a Connor Garland hat trick I do think and we have a little clip of Connor Garland to play later and he is just Borny's really really I love do you want to come and test I could give you a Connor Garland, let me see what a Connor Garland goal would pay but it with that face that mug of his he should be like leading a Netflix series I I love how little he cares for other people's opinions. A Conor Garland any time goal tonight plays plus 325.

If you'd like him to score the first goal tonight, which would be really good, 20 to one. So there's some action on a Conor Garland goal tonight to really piss off the Oilers fans. What else is going on tonight? On Sportsnet later on, the Washington Capitals are in Seattle to take on the crack in the Washington Capitals boys 32 10 and 5 plus 51 goal differential best team in the league number one team

And then you get a pretty good number here on the Capitals minus 140 on the road there plus fun Number and if you want to even go minus a goal and a half plus 185 for the Washington Capitals tonight taking on the crappy squids Which have won two in a row though? Oh And the last thing I'll bring up for our Calgary audience the Buffalo Sabres continuing their Western Road trip taking on the Calgary flames Your flames big favorites on home ice minus 140 against the Buffalo Sabres who are plus 120 on the other side of the money line And that was game time presented by bet 365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at bet 365 plus 19 plus Ontario only.

Please play responsibly. I wrote my article today for the Toronto Star. You can find it on my Twitter account, my ex account or Toronto Star and it's about Connor McDavid being suspended and how just the NHL just absolutely laughs at their stars when they try to garner any attention for more calls. Like they literally don't care. They don't care. They care. They don't care. They don't care. They care.

They don't care. I think they care. Where have you ever seen any inkling that they care? Well, I mean, every time we start making a fuss about a player not getting calls, they start to get calls. Yeah, okay, maybe a week. Yeah, yeah, you'll get 10 days effort. But they will never ever get

NFL quarterback type of attention You can't I think it's if the game's too fast It's tough to know which ones to start player half the time, you know, like it's it's that this guy has that guy has it It's not like my home sits there at the ball and has it in the pocket It's like so it's too fast. And there is, there is a part of the NHL that likes you going out there and figuring it out yourselves. Don't come to us.

And when every team is doing the same level, no super team, just a communist league. Everyone's the same. If you by chance have to like, try to knock someone's teeth out, we're okay with it. We're fine with it. In fact, love it. Love it. Love Connor McDavid getting in the news. Joe Mixon's tweeting about Connor McDavid.

Yeah, that's not bad for the NHL. So that's it. That's the way it is. And just, I don't know know you said it the other day Two games three games just move on It's yeah, well the players are more or less handled like that like no one loves the third game But it will never change it will never change Lemieux said somebody told me early in Sid's career that there might have been a

Somebody told me early in Sid's career that there might have been a message sent to the league that maybe Sid won't be doing this for you anymore, or maybe he won't be so available there anymore. And then they, that was it. It was over. They just don't care. I saw a fantastic clip of Lemieux today. So it was like the stars have always had to look after themselves. And I don't know who it was some guy that was grunt on the Washington Capitals going

after him. And he knocks his helmet off and Lemieux just twice the guy's size skates up behind him, hammers him, gets on top of him starts punching. It's like, that's kind of what makes hockey great, is that even when you're a superstar, you gotta get into the muck once in a while. And like that's, I mean, there's no other really league like that.

Like in the NFL, if you breathe on Patrick Mahomes, he throws his arms back and you get a free 15 yards. And the NBA, he grab his wrist, the guy flies around, like you gotta get in the muck. I wrote about Austin doing that in the outdoor game and what did everybody talk about and write stories about? Standing O. He's arrived.

That's a, he's not taking it anymore. What a message that he sent. There was not one tweet sent that was he shouldn't have done that. Nobody said that. Darlene was like, what? Ow. And no one cared a lick. Yeah anyways Uh, what would we tee up before?

You said let's talk about the um I'm not sure I totally agree with him on the attention needed during a warm-up but when there isn't success, you look for reasons and talk about practice. No warm up. Right. And I was a joke. When you when you're on a in a rut or you're looking for things that are wrong.

Yeah. Yeah. You're going to draw attention to a lot of things and including warm up but I like I've been out with like a hundred guys and warm-ups in my career where it's like you want to line rush now pass oh yeah it's yeah I would say the problem with creating off ice drama is it draws attention to all facets your organization and people start looking for things and You find them because there's there's cracks and flaws in every team and but I will say very passionate about the warm-up Hey, but I mean I know what he means like even if it's just you know guys

Can't connect on a couple of passes and it's sloppy and it's just you know It matters it matters to some extent about focus and attention to detail. And Buccal and my grandpa Fred had a lot in common. Every time I go to the tag game with him, he'd be like, we got no chance tonight. Look at this warm up. Yeah. No, they don't care.

No intensity. But I will say this. I mentioned Pasternak. His Pasternak's warm up is like he leans on the bench for six minutes and drinks water. But like, you guys are golfers. You've been in the range and slashed it all over the range and then striped it on the first tee and the opposite. You know, I don't know. I had to get the blood flowing, but there's no connection between

success to me and warm up. I'm at Lakeview. My tee time is seven o'clock. I'm there at 6.58. Get me to the first tee. I'm a range guy, man. Oh, the range sucks. You don't learn anything there. They're not learning anything. Sam, you're 19 years old. You just kip and now me, you got to loosen the lower lumbar a little bit. It doesn't make a difference.

Well, when you don't warm up until the 13th hole, it does. Roll a couple pots. I just want to strike a few so I get a little muscle memory. That's all. Yeah. All right. Well, the Canucks clearly weren't striking it very well today.

Yeah. But the books was there. Let's go around the league, shall we? Devils? Marksram. Marksram got hurt. Justin Brazow, collision, jammed his ankle into the post. I believe we're calling him weak to weak. Was that? He's going to miss some time. High ankle sprain. Is that the word? It looks ankle II will take we'll take some time before we know the full extent on Markstrom

Keith said I talked to him. He's in good spirits. He's feeling a lot better than before so that's positive But he's gonna miss some time So he just can't get a consistent positive flow going in Jersey three four and three in their last ten goalie hurt now Boy, they could use a JT Miller type, couldn't they? By the way, JT Miller, I am convinced is going to Carolina. I've made that decision today. I think Nate just goes the other way. I don't think they get him.

I don't think they need to give him up. I don't know how long they want to hold out on that. Yeah, I think he goes Carolina though. So you think Kakeniemi then? I think that's what you try to push. Can I tell you what I think of Kakeniemi? No, no, it ain't there. People have been searching for it.

It's like a magic eye and you go like this and you go, I can kind of see how he's an elite guy. You get this guy and I think it's a home run for Vancouver next year at six and a half and then even if next year you want to sign him long term and he wants to take ten, ten and a half. If you told me today they went one for one, Nacius for Miller, I'd go, yeah, okay. I would too. Off you go.

If I'm Vancouver, I make too. Off you go. Yeah. If I'm Vancouver, I make that trade in a heartbeat. Which is crazy to say considering H.S. is not the, you know, fire and brimstone type that J.T. Miller is and talk it loves and part of that. It's a totally different type of guy. Pedersen and H.S. is not. You need to poke them a little bit more, I would imagine. But the Habs wish they had taken Brady Kachuk instead of cock and yammy

Yeah, that's That's a franchise changer. That is that's a franchise change. Yeah, there'd be a few teams that took go down that path Yeah, for sure, but that's a pretty Blatant one they were he was talked about before the draft as a top product like a high guy top five kind of guy And you take cocking stuff when you overthink it. You know, it's different with like a second rounder, where it's like, oh, you know, people here are like, oh, they took Dermot instead of Sebastian Ajo

in the second round. It's like, well, it's the second. Everyone passed on him. Listen, but third and fourth, it's a little bit different. Little love for the Winnipeg Jets last night, winning in overtime against the Avs and getting called out by their coach. I think we had that sound sound bite, but I don't know if we ever got to it. Yeah, our Neil called them Horse poo. Yes horse. They called him horse s he looked like the most Canadian man of all time say there's no

more like plaid old 50 year old Canadian guy thing to say then horse crap horse crap. Like, oh, I'm a horse crap. Pionk's goal was like a rocket. Do you know that he scored that exact goal against Colorado in Colorado the year before in overtime? I mean, a replica Kip. It was on sports day.

On the same day at the same time? Yeah, it's actually the multiverse glitched. It's honestly insane how identical the same time. Yeah, it's actually the multiverse glitched. It's honestly insane how identical the goals are. But that to me, I've always wanted in my whole career, I wanted to score one goal like that. Skating full tilt, cathartic, clean slapper, blow it off the post, zero times. I only had like really one. Just one. I mean, I had a couple of one timers here and there, but not...

They're hard. Oh Instride to be the goalie clean, you know, you don't see him but you can in three on three Yeah, Cody Hodgson in the NHL has the best one I've ever seen That's if you can search I'm in you can know I mean that's lose They think it's not stakes wise but just in terms of a bar down hit it as hard as you can clapper search Cody Hodgson Slapshot I know the one is just there's a Gretzky one that has a there's just no better angle But just in terms of a bar down hit it as hard as you can clapper search Cody Hodgson slap shop I know the one is just there's a Gretzky one that has a there's just no better It can't be a better feeling than that then hitting one that pure and having it go in like that

I'm looking at the standings here and you're talking about the Jets and the Avs the the Jets are clearly in the in the the driver's seat in the central division But if you're looking at who's in the wild card spots here, it's the Calgary Flames and the Colorado Avalanche. Imagine the first round, they end up facing off against Colorado as like the wild card. Because you not see it going a very similar direction as the last time those two teams played.

I don't know, man. I got a good feeling about Winnipeg this year. I don't know. I still wouldn't know. Lowry's out week to week. Sucks. Which makes last night's effort even better, but eventually that's going to catch up to them a little bit in the next little while. I'd like to see them do a little something at the deadline.

Oh, they will. Yeah. Yeah, they will. So we've got Ottawa has David Perron coming back. Norris is out. But Perron a nice ad for them down the lineup should be should help them out. Montreal and Detroit tonight. This one's.

That matters now. Really matters. That game matters. You told me that I don't know six weeks ago. I'd say it's mattering a little bit less. What do you mean? Detroit got hot there for a little bit, but it's kind of coming back down to earth a bit here They're they have 47 points the the second wild card spots 52. They have a hundred teams to jump

They got a minus five point. They got a minus 20 goal differential. Like I think it's a nice story They had a nice little bump, but I think it's not not over but it's heading in that direction You're working tonight on sports set I am just doing hockey central books and are you sticking around for the game Vancouver and Edmonton? They're sending me home I'm gonna go home and watch yours look very disappointed. Yeah heartbreaking Hey Leafs line tomorrow, okay 416-413-4141 Call the Leafs line yes our tomorrow tomorrow. Leafs line, Leafs line,

Leafs line. Leave us a message and we'll make fun of you. That's our motto. That's the best part of the week. And we'd like one you make fun of us. Our thanks to Jason Bucola for coming in in studio. 11 games find yours and then join us right back here tomorrow. Have a great night everybody.