Real Kyper & Bourne - PWHL's Punchy Start with Brian Burke

Episode Date: January 9, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne are joined in-studio by former Leafs' GM & exec. director of the PWHL Brian Burke, who discusses the successful start to the inaugural season of the PWHL, the league's business model in the short and long-term, William Nylander's extension and how it impacts the financial future of the team. Then, he shares his thoughts on the Cutter Gauthier trade and NHL expansion. The guys regroup with Sam McKee for more on the Gauthier deal, whether the Ducks overpaid, the timing and the behind-the-scenes drama of his lack of communication with the Flyers.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

ready set go the real kipper and born show nick kiprios justin born sammy mckee this is the national edition of the real kipper and born show we are live on sportsnet sportsnet 650 in vancouver and sportsnet 960 in calgary real kipperipper and Boren brought to you by, as always, Bet365. As promised before the break, former NHL executive and current executive director of the Professional Women's Hockey League Players Association

and my former general manager of the Hartford Whalers. Berkey, back then when you traded for me, did you ever envision one day this moment right now? Because I sure hell didn't. Well, I really enjoyed having you on my team. You were a great player for us. You had 17 goals and 300 pims, I want to say. I think I remember.

Hell of a year. Look who I got traded by. Yeah, you had some pressure. The rating was on the wall. So that team you had Nick on, you called one of your, or maybe your toughest? My toughest team. Who was on that team?

Well, our heavyweight was Jimmy McKenzie. He was the guy everyone was afraid of. Jimmy Agnew. Jimmy Agnew could fight. Mark Jansons. Mark Jansons. Kipper. I mean, we had a...

Yeah. Sean Burke had a screw loose back then. He was a big fella, too. He was really good. As a goalie, one of the toughest goalies in the league. Yeah. Yeah. It was fun.

So how are you? I'm good. Really enjoying the job. Love the look. Did we cut a lunch short for you today? I love that you came with a proper Berkey attire today. Business meeting, PWHL meeting. The Women's League has been shot out of a can in Berkey.

It's been great. The women are doing a great job. The league has done a really good job of putting it together. There have been some issues, but mostly it's been positive, and I've really enjoyed it. It's been great. Have you been surprised by the initial outpouring of support? I think the opening night was 2.9 million viewers for the start.

I'm not really surprised. I know people say that, but the fact of the matter is women have never been asked to watch, to pay to watch women play sports. People say, oh, no, Canada, U.S. Well, international is different. And the WNBA took 25 years to get to a break-even point. They lost a lot of money because people have never been asked to pay to watch women play women's sports. So women's soccer is the best example, I think.

They've started that league now. It's doing great. And soccer's being watched by women playing women, watched by women playing soccer in parts of England and Scotland, and they're drawing well. They're doing extremely well. They're drawing well, breaking even. Women's soccer in the U.S.

So I'm not surprised. I really think there's been an outlet for this that has been provided for people to watch hockey. So what was the delay up until now? Was it just Berkey? Two leagues. Two leagues. But was it, okay, the business model

of how this is going to ultimately make money this is what it has to be right it just can't be we're out just to support women's hockey it has to as a professional league it has to make money eventually yeah so what is the business model because my understanding is one investor basically owns six teams correct correct that's that's good to start but that's not where you want to finish well to start off first off it's a single entity league all six teams are owned by one couple basically mark walter and his wife kimbride believe her name is i haven't met her billy jean king and her wife are also investors um in the league but for the most part it's a single entity all six franchises are owned by the single entity

group that owns the teams which i think gives us some real flexibility to start um and they have funded this and bankrolled it properly and staffed it properly so i i've i watched women getting ready for women's games where one woman was waiting for two other women while she taped her shin pads. The other two were waiting because there's only one roll of tape. Shoelaces, skate laces, things like that.

It was never properly funded, never provided for. Now they've said we're going to staff it properly. Every team has a massage therapist. Every team has assistant coaches. Every team has a goalie coach. And they've financed it. So it's the best chance we've had to succeed ever in women's hockey. It sounds expensive to fund it.

It is. Is there, like, will they continue until eventually? I think the game plan is to have independent entities turn around and say, hey, we'll buy a team for $20 million, $30 million, and then piece it off to private ownership. I have not had that discussion with them. That would be the logical place to go because right now you can't buy a team. So we've been approached, I've been approached by people saying we want to buy a team, put a team in Pittsburgh, say, or a different place, Buffalo.

And I think that's the model down the road but certainly at this point the goal is to sell tickets get this thing to a break-even proposition there is a salary cap but it is it's an expensive proposition to get a league going so what has your experience been so far heading up the association the women have not had as my understanding any sort of association before what has been I guess taking up the association the women have not had as my understanding any sort of association before what has been i guess taking up the bulk of your time your experience in working with them getting this thing functioning well it's a brand it's brand newly everything's brand new everything we've done is new they've had their first shutout they've had their first disallowed

goal they've had their first you know whatever so we've been going through working out the kinks on here so like for example we had some problems getting meal money paid on time at the start. Okay, minor hiccup. The league fixed it. So it's been like a shakedown cruise. We've had some travel issues. We had a flight canceled that really messed up the girls' travel from Ottawa to Boston. So there's been the normal hiccups that accompany a new league.

But overall, it's been terrific. It's been fantastic. The preparation, the planning that's gone into this has been legendary. We're talking to Brian Burke, now the executive director of the Professional Women's Hockey League. Burke, one thing that's abundantly clear coming out of the gate is it's a lot more physical than we probably anticipated according to the rules still there's no body checking per se but there's been a ton of contact

here to the point where probably looks like you just might as well write in body checking in the rule book i mean that is by design correct yes and fact is, Nicky, you've watched women's hockey. I know that. But people come to me and say, I didn't know how physical it was. I'm like, that's because you haven't been watching. If you've been watching, you'd know. That's evolved. I remember the first women's hockey I watched in Nagano 25 years ago,

and there was, if you touch someone, you got a penalty. It's evolved now to where there's a significant amount of body contact that's permitted encouraged and not penalized and so it's just short of body checking you see some hits that aren't penalized and you're saying what yourself well even as much as i like it physical that should have been a penalty so it's a fine line but i think the officials have been excellent so far and how is the oh go. I want to stick with the physical part. I thought you might. Because, you know, here we've been the last 20 or 30 years arguing that we need fighting

because of the stick work and the physicality. You know it'll lead to some stick work now. The question is, will it get to the point where the girls are so mad that eventually we might see a fight or two i wouldn't be surprised i don't think that's any part of the selling certainly everyone knows my view on fighting my view on fighting in men's hockey is this is never too much for me i've never left a hockey game yet and said boy that was too rough for me i have a very different view

well they've the league has systematically reduced the role and the amount of fighting. That's been a good thing. But it's still there just in case they feel like they need to police themselves. I would guess that you're going to see a fight or two. I don't want to see an encourage. I don't know what the rules say now. But it's a five-minute penalty, and they have the option to reject if they think it continues. And I think it probably will end up being more like a college rule.

Like you fight in college, like when I play college hockey, you get kicked out of that game and the next game. So I would predict that's the way we're going with it. So there's very little fighting in college hockey. It does happen. You're going to see at some point two athletes get mad enough they could fight, but it's not something we want to encourage. Okay, so knowing you well enough as I do,

you don't want to encourage it publicly. Well, but... No, no. I'm not winking when I tell you that. No winks. But also, like, visors would be necessary at that point, right? Like, I wonder if you... They've got facial protection now, so...

Yeah. It's not... That's not... I can tell you this, that is not the way that my players are telling me this is the way it's going to go. And I would speak for them if it were. It's going to be some type of, it'd be a rare instance when you see fighting in women's hockey.

I know there's a laundry list of things we want to get to. So just one last quick question on this topic and all the rules that have changed. What are your thoughts on, you know, the unique penalty kill? You score a shorthanded goal and it kills the power play. Three, two, one standings. There are some unique rules. The players voted for that, like that.

How did that come to pass and do you like them? That was all done before I had any say on anything. So I think the taking away power plays just doesn't inherently to me doesn't make sense. Sure. Okay. You score a goal. You've already scored a shorthanded goal.

Now we're going to kill that power play. That doesn't make sense to me. But they league put it in. People like it. That's fine with me. It's not a big enough factor. I think it's going to be a major factor in the rules. The scoring.

The problem with a 3-2-1 scoring is it widens out the standings and puts teams out of contention very early on. That's why leagues have never done it. That's why the NHL has looked at it a dozen times and said, no, we're not doing it because there is some value to having the standings packed together. So we'll see. I like the fact that we are willing to look at stuff and try stuff.

I think that's always a good thing. Okay, we're jam-packed, as JB has alluded to. Plenty to get into, including the Willie Nylander contract. I think you've gone on record saying that you probably would have gone a different angle with the core four in Toronto, including moving one of them for a defenseman. Do you feel that much more stronger on that side after watching willie agree to a 92 million dollar no move contract i have no problem with willie leaning

on your signing a contract i think it's inevitable i said this i'm still doing a radio show on serious xm every friday i said this two weeks ago I don't see how they have a choice. When they committed to the core four and the no trades and the trade protection, I think they locked in a course of action. And Willie Nylander has delivered on his part of this. He's been outstanding. And not just this year. He was really good last year. So to me, I don't see, I said this on the radio two weeks ago. I said it again a week ago, I don't see where Bradshaw Living had any choice. I think the course of events we're on, and we've followed since the Nylander got here, was all started under Kyle Dubas,

and that's what's led to this problem, which I think is still a problem. I don't think, I don't see how it changes anything. They say the cap's going to go up. They just spent all that money extending Matthews and Nylander, and they're both good signing. I have no problem with any of it. But it has perpetuated this course of conduct that I objected to when it started.

So I don't like people who object in real time or don't object in real time. They're after the fact. They say, oh, it's all screwed up. I said this in real time. When they signed Nylander, I thought it was a mistake. But I don't think they had a choice this time around. You know, we've talked about what that does to the Leafs um you know next year where they have four guys making 11 million and more uh John Tavares is the captain he has a no move clause I believe you're on record as saying that you don't think it'd be fair to go to a guy like that and

say hey you know we'd be interested in moving you yeah Yeah, I think it's really, if you didn't give it to him, it's one thing. Because if you've given him a full no trade, no move, I think it would be unfair to go to him and ask him to move it, to breach that or somehow get out from under that if I had given it to him. Now, if I had not given it to him, I would be willing to have that discussion. But I understand a player that wants to stay in one place. I think at some point, a divorce is a way more

desirable result than insisting on sticking to a no trade, but not certainly for John Tavares. He's done his part of this. For sure. He's played. People that underperform, I think, you have the right to say,

they've got to do something about John Tavares. I've never heard a fan say that. I've never said it. I think he's a good player and a good person. He's been a good captain here. If you were in Brad Tree Living's shoes, would you have just waited out this contract to the end

and maybe hang it over his head or do you believe that it would have been a distraction? I think it would have been a distraction. I think someone would have signed him. I think he would have gone. You've got to look at Willie Nylander, what he's done as a player the last two seasons. His body of work has been terrific since he came into the league.

You know, his dad played with you and Hartford. So I go back a long way with the family. And I think that you could fault Willie Nylander's play a lot his first few years here. There's a lack of commitment to defensive coverages, not enough effort some nights. But I don't think that's been a fair comment the last two years, and certainly not this year.

This year he's actually putting himself in harm's way to make plays and score goals. So I think I have no problem with it, none. So we are in our NHL hour, so I'll take that to Pittsburgh, if you don't mind, where you spent a few years there. Jake Gensel is a guy who is an unrestricted free agent coming up, making $6 million.

His agent has made some noise about being willing to walk away, to move, to whatever. Where do you stand on the Gensel situation? Is he a guy that they, they've just spent a lot of money on a lot of players there? Can they keep a guy like that? I think they can keep Jake Gensel. I think they should, and I think they will.

You like him? He's a great kid. He's a hockey player. He's born to be a hockey player. His dad played, his dad coached, his dad's a longtime coach, scouts now for Arizona, I want to say. This is a hockey family. His dad played, his dad coached, his dad's a long time coach, scouts now for Arizona, I want to say. This is a hockey family. This kid only knows one thing.

He's a hockey geek. He watches games, he plays hard. He's a phenomenal goal scorer and he's a tough kid. He takes a beating. One thing that we didn't ever surround him with much toughness, and that was a philosophical thing from the coaching staff, the way they want to play. But we ever surround him with much toughness, and that was a philosophical thing from the coaching staff,

the way they want to play. But we never surrounded him with a lot of toughness, and he gets hit a lot, but he's a tough kid. He's a really good player, natural goal scorer. Sid loves playing with him. He's a great kid, so, yeah, I think he stands. Mike Sullivan didn't want to have a tough group around him? No.

For our listeners on Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver and Sportsnet 960 in Calgary, we got to ask if all boats rise with the tide of Willie Nylander when it comes to Pettersson in Vancouver. Lindholm, he's not having the year that he had prior, but he needs a new contract. What do you do there, Berkey?

Do you go race to get these guys locked in, or do you wait? I think there's a real different set of circumstances between Nylander and Lindholm. One guy's tearing it up. The other guy's playing okay. I like Lindholm. He's a good player, but he's not having the same year that Willie Neenah is having.

And Willie had a great year last year as well. So I wouldn't be in a big hurry to sign any of those guys right now. Okay. You want to follow up there? No, no, no. I was going to change topics. I wanted to see if you had more there. No, I don't.

Where do you want to go? I was kind of thinking Katargoche. Yes, absolutely. Berkey, I'm not sure how well-ed you are on this uh trade last night between the philadelphia flyers and anaheim where the ducks sent jamie drysdale and a second round selection for cutter goche who's a top prospect just finished the world juniors and this one seems a little strange, but is it? Yeah. It is.

Yeah, it is. Very weird. So my first thought is why the race to trade a prospect you really like if you're the Philadelphia Flyers to start? Okay, and I think the answer is really simple because they knew the story would leak. The fact is once you're told once the team calls you in and says we don't want to go come here you're racing time now before everyone finds out because they tell their agent they tell their best friend they tell their roommate and you know how no one can keep a secret on a team so i'm amazed this secret held as long as it did once philly was

surprised of the fact that this player wasn't coming back, then you've got to get whatever value you can for him. And I think they got great value for him. I like Drysdale a lot. He's been hurt a lot, but I think that'll work out over time. And a second-round pick is no small thing to throw in, but this is a guy who really tore it up for the U.S. junior team and had a great world juniors, which is a big stage.

That's a big deal. So to me, it's a high-value trade. I sent Pat is a big stage that's a big deal so to me it's a high value trade i sent pat for beacon out i love big deals i love big deals used to get a big deal and you'd say that how do we make it bigger you know that's cliff fletcher top and i'd say okay so you got you got kip reels for burke that's a big deal two big name players how do we make it bigger let's put two first then or make it bigger i love big deals so i sent pat for beaker note i said i i love big deals and that's a big deal did you ever have a player say to you that they that you drafted say that they did want to play for your team no not that i can remember but it

happened in anaheim after i left happened with the with the schultz kid right Right, Justin Schultz. I want to ask you the difference between a college kid and a junior kid because the junior kid, if he's not signed after two years, if I'm not mistaken, goes back into the draft. Somehow, someway, a college kid after four years becomes an unrestricted free agent. Is that correct? Yes. That's a big difference.

Well, it's only a handful of players that have stayed and played the four years and gotten free agency that way. Justin Schultz was one. Adam Fox was another. Yes. You're talking about maybe 15, 20 players. I know, but even for 15 or 20, to be able to pick where you want to play at 23 or 24

is way better than the junior route. Well, and it's shown a distinct problem with the Canadian team. Yes. That's where, you know, like Adam Fox was a Calgary draft pick and Schultz was an Anaheim draft pick that didn't want to go to Anaheim. But it was, you know, the Canadian flavor of this is very real. So that's a big loophole. I know teams have complained about it, but I don't think it's worth,

right now with Labor Peace, I don't think anything's worth the work stoppage. You know what I mean? You say we've got to fix that loophole. Yeah. 15 guys. Yeah. There should be a compensatory draft pick at least so the most insane part of this story to me is reading that uh patrick sharp and john leclaire went to talk

to him after a game and the kid wouldn't even talk to them uh they went to the world i think jones keith jones went to the to the world juniors he wouldn't even talk to them okay okay not to interrupt you what do you know like i'm no it's not what i know i'm like the guy's trying to win a gold medal like he doesn't really want to talk about you know his future that's a heavy conversation for a guy that's there to just try to win a gold medal they'd have talked to him after the gold medal game i'm sure they'd have hung around if he'd have talked then but they tried and he just doesn't want to. That, to me, is such a bizarre detail. I don't blame him for not wanting to talk to anybody

during the World Juniors. Okay, well, they also went to his team to talk to him at Boston College, and he wouldn't even give them a conversation. I think you're right. It's fair game to say, I'm not talking during a tournament that's this important. But I think this isolation was enforced way way before that i think he went to talk

to him in boston college and he said no so he wanted out i don't know if it's the coach i don't know if it's philly i don't know what it is but he wanted out i mean drysdale is a nice piece to get back and the flyers have driven the point you want out you can get we want you out we don't want anybody that doesn't want to be yeah that's always been my view too i might have one conversation say give me a chance to talk about it but you want out yeah except it's not really equal for everyone else because if carter hart woke up one day and said i don't want to be here anymore you're going to move them anybody that comes to you berkey if six guys come to you you're going to move them all i don't think the precedence necessarily set on hey you don't want to be here we're going to move them all i don't think the precedence necessarily set on hey

you don't want to be here we're going to move you out that's not really an answer for me either yeah no i i'm saying for a kid for an unsigned draft pick i'd say you don't want to be here we'll find you somewhere to go add some undue pressure to yourself as a player too i mean all eyes on cutter go chain now so they got what they wanted out of that. Winnipeg, Vancouver, like huge stories in this country, Berkey, for what they've been able to do in a very short period of time, turning their programs completely into a 180. Yeah, and you did it without the Winnipeg coach was missing for a month of that. Yeah.

And he's a good coach. He still owes me 400 bucks. Can we ask why? Yeah, I'll tell you why. When Bones, he rented my house. I had a townhouse in Vancouver. So we were living in Anaheim. We kept this townhouse in Vancouver, and Bones rented it.

He wrecked my satellite dish. He cost me 400 bucks to fix it. Bones, you owe me 400 bucks. But they're missing the coach for a month of it and still put together this terror that they're the stingiest team in the league to score on very stingy yeah i think it's amazing well and i mean this is he's making nhl head coach money you think the guy could send you an e-transfer now we're gonna we're gonna try to get that squared away for you we don't have a ton of time i did want to ask about um nhl expansion i've you know heard you say

you're talking a little bit about it in the past um you know one strength of the women's league right now is six teams right like stars on every team stars on every team it's fantastic that way yeah and that's great and so the league nhl has 32 is it watered down do you think what happens here do you think they would ever expand again? Yes. I think they will dislocate their shoulders voting for expansion, which I think is really stupid. Like, I think there's too many teams now. Not too many.

There's just about enough. Half make the playoffs. And then all but eight are out after one round. Like, the math is daunting. But you turn to your owner and say, you're due to win another cup every 32 years. You think any of these owners, especially the newer guys, you think they understand that math?

Because they don't. They think you should win every five years or four years or three years. And so that's why you have such young GMs, and that's why GMs get fired all the time is because the owners don't understand the math. You've been part of enough teams to understand revenues and profits and the $1 billion now label. And there's no question that a free market's not what it's worth. It's what it's worth to you.

And if you can find a couple of billionaires willing to go there, good on you. But does the math add up for a lot of teams in our league where these things are worth a billion dollars? I look at Ottawa today. We all know Ann Lauer, 950 U.S., well above a billion dollars Canadian, and it's looking like he's going to miss the playoffs.

Now it's just a matter of how much money is he going to lose? I mean, is it realistic, Berkey, that these values can hold? Yes, because history has shown that they will. Like I was part of the Fenway Sports Group when they bought Liverpool. Now this is all stuff that was reported to me at the time as it went along. I think I got the numbers right i think they bought liverpool for 388 million pounds from uh from the gillette family at a distressed price it was really down i think they're in bankruptcy and now the rumor is they've been offered five billion pounds for liverpool pounds yeah so roughly i think recently equivalent to a u. dollar. It's fluctuated since then, but at one point they were pretty close to par.

But 4 or 5 billion pounds. You look at the appreciation of the Red Sox since the Fenway Sports Group bought it. So the fact of the matter is these assets have appreciated. You can't put this to paper and pencil and make it work, Nicky. You can't say, okay, if we sell 18,000 seats at $250 average price, it doesn't add up to a billion dollars. You can't

make the math work. It's all about appreciation of assets. Well, we'll never have to worry about that problem. It is not an issue for me, I can tell you that. Out of our league. Hey, Burke, you really appreciate you coming in. Good luck with the PWHL moving forward.

We're going to watch with great interest. Thank you. Okay. Brian Burke, now current executive director of the PWHL. Okay, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, a little bit more on the flyers trade of jamie dry sidle we'll get some sound bites from keith jones daniel briere and even torts remember torts perky remember yeah good sound bites still helps more with real kipper and born after these words

fresh views on everything in the national football league it's the fan check down with matt marchese and donovan bennett subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts All right. Our thanks again to Brian Burke. By chance, you're just joining us. That was awesome. You're dumb because you missed a really good segment with him. He was fantastic.

So download it. Yeah, do that. Find it. Yeah. And in the meantime, we'll continue on, Sammy, with Game Time. It's Game Time, and I don't have my lineup in front of me. Just going to read this here. Oh, boy.

What have you been doing for 20 minutes? Hold on, hold on. I got it. I got it. Oh, you already? It's Game Time. I need a different sheet. Oh, no.

Yeah, I got it. It's Game Time, presented by Bet365. Visit the app and find out why it's never ordinary that Bet365 must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Sorry, I was a little distracted there with the scribblings of a murderer on this page.

Do not try this at home, people. We are professionals. It's a long story as to why I don't have what I needed in front of me, but I was just looking at the Leafs line for tonight because there's not many times that you will get as big a favorite as the Toronto Maple Leafs are on home ice tonight. They're a minus 450 favorite.

Minus 450? So mathly, what would that? If you bet $10, you can win $4.50. If you bet $100, you can win $4.50. If you bet $100, you would get a quarterback. That's essentially where it's at, yes. Good time to bet the other side for a cheap amount. Here's what I'll say. I know the Leafs have been better against the bad teams

in the last two games. But... There are few opportunities like this one out of conference out of division first game back from a western road trip where everyone's told them how great they've played oh you're setting them up to lose well listen he's made a lot of good points here this team i don't know if anybody follows them closely around here has a propensity to let their foot off the gas in these kind of games.

Post an $11.5 million contract. The other team has lost 11 in a row, looking to avoid 12 in a row. Hungry in Toronto. I do think that the Sharks are so bad that they're like, it's not like they're the Sens or the Sabres or one of these teams that are like kind of bad. They're just really bad. So they may be immune to this. But I would have a look at the Sharks plus $3.50.

So you bet $10, you win $35. I also think it might be interesting to look at, could you get Sharks plus one and a half and still make money? Could you get them plus two and a half, a kind of even odds? You know, there's some chances there to get goals and still hang in the game. The other thing I was looking at, but it's not posted yet i was looking at a uh barabanov goal which god is something that you know it's not posted unfortunately but it will probably be later what else you got for us uh okay enough for the sharks okay uh either line up please we're good

there you go thank you oh uh that Game Time, presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. On Terra only. Please play responsibly. Now, if we went back 24 hours, did you have any, did you have Vancouver, like, throttling the Rangers on home ice, Madison Square Garden? Not, I would say they could win, but not to the level they looked.

Yeah. Like, I was flicking back and forth to the national championship game, and every time I went back, it was like, they were in their zone. For me, that was a bit of a statement game, and, like, Petey's licking his chops right now with his four points. The Petey goal followed by the Hoaglander goal were like, oh, my. You know, yeah, four points last night. And he did the interview uh pre-game

with our sports net team da and crew and they asked him about truba coming you know is he someone you have your head out for you know your head up for and he was like yeah absolutely that guy kills people he was very i don't know light-hearted and confident going into that game man's gonna get paid was so impressed from top to bottom with their lineup and if you just take a look at tocket and the way he was able to manage all their ice time and get so much out of the whole top to bottom roster that that to me was a huge message. Nobody up front played longer, more minutes than 1930. You love that. You put too much stock in the ice time stuff.

No, I do not. I love this. I'm talking about come April, everybody's shot out of a cannon. Nobody's going in limping. No one's going in a little tired. It's a big deal. I'm telling you, it's a big deal. Yeah.

I mean, hey, it makes me want to do some like research on you know playoff success versus top guys ice time there's something there yeah you've created homework for me they're just a solid look yeah rolling four lines uh and rick talk it just looking at the odds here we're not in game time anymore is the big time favorite to be the coach of the year plus 175 at this point to be the coach of the year. Why do we shrug off coaches behind the Winnipeg Jets bench on this? Yeah, I think you're right. Because Rick Bonas left for five weeks.

I don't care. They win it together. Then co-have it with arneal you know for uh canadian fans there's there's some hockey teams this year we we got a couple of tickets in the lottery i would say yeah it's actually nice to go into the playoffs you know it's maybe you don't have vegas and the pants okay the final again right want to follow up again the big trade with the anaheim in florida where jamie drys, a top 10 player in the draft, was moved to the Philadelphia Flyers

for another top 10 player in the draft, Cutter Gauthier. Plus, Anaheim gave up a second round pick. Can you, first of all, explain to me how a top 10 pick from anaheim who's got 120 games under his belt already yeah and he's on a nice deal too it's pretty cheap gets traded for a top 10 pick who has no experience in the nhl and is still considered a prospect and the second rounder has to go to philly you know why interesting they sold like cutter goche at the absolute peak of the market post world juniors gold medal he's never played a game in the nhl but everyone just watched him

be awesome against the best of his peers and so so they called, or I saw something like 18 teams or something about this guy. They talked to a lot of teams. And so to me, yeah, they probably drove the price up, said they're going to do this, they're going to do that, they're going to, who wants Cutter Gauthier? Good time to sell. We've got a few clips on this.

Okay, let's, where do you want to start? You want to start with our your boy our boy johnsy we'll go with uh the president of the philadelphia flyers on the big trade yesterday just for those of you that uh haven't been following it that closely cutter goche made it crystal clear to the philadelphia flyers he did not even talk to him did not want to sign with the philadelphia flyers and he had no future there thus the trade yeah he didn't want to be a flyer so we had to you know come up with a plan and fortunately we were able to execute on that plan his value would never be higher than it was after the world junior

championships it was only the World Junior Championships. It was only going to decrease if the word got out there. I have to give a lot of credit to the people that we were negotiating with that they kept this quiet. It could have became a much more difficult situation. So the other general managers, presidents around the league, were outstanding in keeping this a private matter. Pretty tough to do that these days. Yeah, and the leverage starts to change in that case.

So you don't want to be a flyer. You're not going to be a flyer. And we were very pleased in the return that we got, a player that we coveted. Yeah. I love that Jonesy just is still talking like he's the analyst. He lays it out there, yeah. That's just like something an analyst would say.

Yeah, very thorough. I don't, I would have handled it differently if I was Jonesy and Daniel Breer. I wouldn't, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have moved on it that quick, to be honest with you. Yeah, but look at what you just said. The return they got yourself was like above what you would expect to get. know like what are you gonna get that's better i don't know but uh first of all the fact that anaheim threw in the second rounder so quickly on james uh jamie dry saddle drysdale drysdale sorry uh means that they weren't that high on him.

Yeah, I do think that that definitely stands out to me too. I don't think he's going to be a top defenseman, top producing defenseman. And I know that Anaheim thought he was undersized to begin with. And if you're not going to be a top-producing kind of Evan Bouchard, I got my name, so I'll text up. If you're not going to be a Bouchard type of producer at that size, then, you know, we're moving on. You know, I say this all the time on this show,

you know, the team knows first about these prospects. And I have seen it in the American League long enough when someone who's a big name but isn't that great, they know first. And I think this should happen more. I think teams, and people are going to hate the way this sounds, I think teams should give up on players quicker because everyone falls in love with their own prospects

because their scouts drafted them and everyone's... There's six layers of guys saying, let's just wait another year. Exactly. But the team knows first. See, I call BS on that because... No.

Because, first of all, there's some talk that this guy could be the next JT Miller type of power guy. Who? Kutter? Kutter. I'm talking about Drysdale. Yes.

Anaheim knows what he is. So let's flip the switch on you then. Okay. Philadelphia. They can't keep him. They just want to play there. First of all, there's no gun to their head. They had two more years with him, with his rights.

Two more years. But he's probably able to play in the NHL now, Kip. He's going to come out next the NHL now, Kip. He's going to come out next year. He'll play for him. That's right. And if you want to sign a potential contract that can earn you $10 million, I've got it right now.

And if you don't, well, maybe I'm going to make you wait for two years. Sure. And that's another decision that the kid has to make. Yeah. They sure could have been harder on him. Two years. They didn't have one month. Sure. And that's another decision that the kid has to make. Yeah. You can, you, they sure, they could have been two years. They didn't have one month. Yeah.

Like why the race? Because they're worried about a secret coming out. Okay. The kid doesn't want to sign right now. We still have, who cares? I've got him for two more years. I don't care if people know that he doesn't want to sign right now.

Maybe he will in the summer. That's how you end up with the second. Then you, they say, listen, I know you don't care if people know that he doesn't want to sign right now maybe he will in the summer that's how you end up with the second then you they say listen i know you don't have to move and we'll throw in a second with drysdale to do it now they would have thrown in two seconds maybe for this kid i mean yeah it's possible i see your point that they had the option to kind of control the kid's career a little bit why the press to go to sweden and well and get him to talk you know well let's say well first off they got with it a good return they think they you know they got a good player in a second round of pick turns out to be a 65 70 point guy yeah yeah i get it the other thing is you know it's possible

that this relationship breer's not a quick fix for them he just got hired he's going to be there and jones is going to be there for a while and it's possible these relationships are badly damaged they want him gone and they don't want to deal with them i gotta tell you they're potentially just offended deeply offended where it's not didn't one of their presidents or somebody say like, you know, people throw batteries that they said something in terms of the treatment that he's going to get when he comes back. And I'm like,

you don't even have to mention that sort of stuff. Do you? I don't know if you have to mention it or not, but I knew nothing about Cutter Gauthier yesterday. And today I've watched enough interview clips and read enough about him that i gotta tell you don't like him i don't i don't like he wouldn't talk to keith jones he wouldn't fine if you're talking about the world juniors he wouldn't talk to patrick sharp and john leclaire that's a mistake like his part that's immaturity on his part it is and i'm not saying that i've

written him off forever and he can't change but but you will look back at that and being 19 year old and not being a man and just saying, here's why I don't, they don't know Kip. They don't know why he doesn't want to be a flyer. Just tell them why. Which is okay. Which is okay.

No, it isn't. It's okay that they don't know why. Yeah. It's okay to not know. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not signing.

I may never sign. I'm not ready to sign right now. It's okay. We've got two years. But, like, hey, maybe he thinks Tortorella's a dirt bag. Maybe he doesn't like the city. Whatever the case is, you don't ever have to have it come out. You can't.

You don't have to. All that has to come out is I'm not ready to sign with you right now. I'm not ready, and I may never be, and I'm not sure where I see my future. That's fine that he could have that conversation, right? He could have said that. I'm not ready to sign right now. Thank you for coming to watch me play. These are his rights.

Of course they are. For people now to sit there and say, oh, this guy's going to get ripped when he comes in. He should. And they go and find Kevin Hayes, and they blame him because there's a report that Kevin Hayes talked to him and maybe talked him out of something. It's absurd. Which is absurd.

It's absurd. Which is absurd. I know the kid has his rights. He should just tell them whatever is happening. All he did was exercise his rights to say,'m not signing not all he did he wouldn't even talk to the people it's his right not to talk to them and it's their right to think he's a jerk for not talking to him i know i i'm not suggesting that you don't you have no rights to take this stance and just move them off right away right i just don't think i would have done it this

early i see your point that they could have sort of tried to get him in the lineup but it you know if they were like all right this guy is a sydney crosby loving you know he did tortorella hating doesn't want to be here kind of guy and they felt they got more than ample return i don't see the point in hanging on either so let me ask you this like say that secret gets out like all cutter go j wants out and then you know what the first question is everybody sits there and goes why but then like how much there's gonna be so many teams that are interested in him does it really torpedo his value that much knowing he wants out like you're still gonna be able to create a bidding war for this guy there's gonna be like he said there's 18 to 20 teams that were interested.

If it gets out, everyone wants out. Second rounder in, it was nothing. It should have been one for one. Yeah. Definitely, that made me skeptical of Drysdale's value now. When I saw that and they were willing to move on, I went, oh, they must think he's not whatever. We have more quotes on it. Do you want to hear what Torts is?

Yeah, let's see. Torts clip one there, Derek, about his thoughts on Cutter Gauthier. Danny said that Cutter didn't want to play here in Philadelphia and didn't want to play for the Flyers. What's your reaction to that? Then we don't want you. I believe you've met Cutter Gauthier before. Were you surprised that he? I don't know Cutter Nogote before were you surprised that he

I don't know Cutter from a hole in a wall and I'm not too interested in talking about him I'd rather talk about Jamie he's the guy that's coming here love Torts he's going for the sound bite that's Torts' way of making sure that the Flyer fans

get all riled up on it. It's not a great... I agree. It's a little classless. Yeah, it's a little classless on Torts' part. I don't think he owes that kid anything. No, he doesn't.

But he can also say, hey, I coach the guys that they provide for me. Yeah. He can take a little bit of a high road. Yeah. Torts could say things gentler breaking it you know but we're now a year 30 of this he probably could be a little if he does we don't feature him on our show that's right and here he is he's not making a kipper's clipper towards our uh do you

want to do the briere one to to just kind of wrap it up and we'll finish off with the briere looked at us at the draft and told us he was built to be a flyer, wanted to be a flyer. And then a few, maybe a few months later, told us that he didn't want to be a flyer, didn't want to play for the Flyers. So in our mind at first, we said we have to protect him. We have to, because if he changes his mind again, you know, and it's out there that he doesn't want to play, it's going to be tough for him to put the uniform on. But when we realized that they refused to talk to us, now it's been months, and he didn't want to be a flyer, didn't want to be in Philadelphia,

it was time to make it happen. The only thing I want to say lastly on this whole, is for me personally, the we're really, really insulted play was just a little over the top for me. Couldn't agree more. Keep it professional. Couldn't agree more. The guy's got rights, doesn't have to sign. Let's all be adults in the room

here. I agree. But I will say, I'm happy it happened to Philadelphia because I'm excited for the reaction he's going to get. They won't remember. I'm happy it happened to Philadelphia because I'm excited for the reaction he's going to get. They won't remember. I'm very excited for this. They're not mean there. Good storylines.

And especially. Can't thank God he went to the docks. Especially now with these kids and all of them know how the salary cap works. And they know what their rights are. He's not going to be the, they're going to come a little faster and faster of players knowing exactly what their rights are and how quickly can I pick a new place to play. And if I go down that path, then you guys have to deal with it.

But I know my rights. And if I choose this path is every team now going to be and and and rile up their fan base to treat the guy like dirt when he comes in because all he's done is exercise his rights yeah they don't they don't want he doesn't want to play for you he doesn't want to wear your jersey he doesn't want to be in that city, and they're going to boo him, and that's perfectly fine. That's all sports fandom is. He doesn't want to be on our team. I'm the Neanderthal on this show, not you.

What do you mean? Sports are. Sports are. Boo them, yay us. You don't want to be on our team, boo you. That's all this is. I'm the adult in this conversation right now. What?

I don't know. We can move on from it, but I just. He's going to get booed. I personally move on from it. But I just... He's going to get booed. I personally love booing people. It's one of my favorite things to do. I'm going to spend way too much money on a ticket to CDLA Dodgers to boo Ohtani. Just to boo Ohtani.

I like booing people. I agree. But don't throw anything. No, I won't. I won't. Maybe I'll throw a bird up. That's all I'll throw. All right.

Did you go for coffee or did you listen to our conversation earlier with brian burke i did a little bit of housekeeping work while i was sitting out there listening uh but yeah i listened to it i loved a lot of what you guys talked about thought the mike sullivan stuff was very interesting that you brought up when i came in here and i love the pwhl contact talk i really did um because i've talked about this with you guys off i'm telling you it's it's inevitable we're gonna see some fights well i that's to me what the difference between when you watch canada versus the u.s play women's hockey when it's at its absolute apex when it's the most intense the intensity and the hate for each other is what makes hockey hockey and a

lot of these other leagues that have not worked didn't have the contact. They didn't have the intensity. They didn't have the hate. And throughout this first, I don't know how many games have been played, I've seen snippets of probably three or four games that have been on TV. And they're nailing each other. And there's contact. And there's scrums after the whistle.

And there's going to be real rivalries. That's how you build popularity with a league. Because hockey's hockey. Like, you know, it's just the contact's very important, and I think it's smart for them to go with it. You know, I kind of mentioned to Berkey in passing the visor thing, you know, the reason the NHL doesn't want players to wear full cages is just visibility, right?

They want superstars. They want people to know who they're looking at because there's no doubt the cage makes more sense. I played in the cage in college. You can see just fine. It's much safer. It's great. I broke my jocks.

I didn't have one on playing pro hockey. There's advertisers that have hated the lack of visibility in a hockey game for players without visors with just the helmet on it's it's hard to to get a good clean look at the person on like a basketball yeah basketball is the best one possible visibility because you're wearing like you're wearing basically pajamas yeah but even but i do wonder if the women will eventually Tom Brady spends half the game

with his helmet off on the sidelines and they go to him a thousand times. Right. The visibility has been very difficult at the NHL level.

Yeah. And I wonder if there'll be pressure eventually for the women to wear visors. Are we out of time? Obviously it's dumb to wear a visor versus a cage. I don't know.

I got to count on our time and I hear no music. Well, I got hit in the face with a puck playing. There it is. An advisor. I was like, what the hell am I doing? I'm going cage, by the way. Jason Demers, thank you very much.

In the first hour, Brian Burke in studio. Always a pleasure talking to Burke, getting his thoughts. Thanks for watching and listening. If you give us a rating and a review, if you get a chance, we'd love to hear from you. Everything that JB's doing wrong or Sammy, if he's cutting in on us too much, we want to hear from you.

Well, they say that. Alright. Ten games on tap tonight with the exception of the Montreal Canadiens. I think all the Canadian teams are on board here for a great night and we're going to be back here tomorrow to wrap up the night of the National Hockey League. Enjoy it, everybody.