Real Kyper & Bourne - Rangers' Top-Line Tension with Mark Messier

Episode Date: May 30, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Oilers' Game 4 win over the Stars to tie up the series and the back-and-fourth momentum swings throughout the WCF. NHL Network's Mike Rupp (6:12) shares his thoughts on the Oilers' period-to-period inconsistencies, their resilience after going down 2-0 and how the team responded to the heat on Darnell Nurse. Then, to the East, Rupp gets into the Rangers' broken defensive structure and their lack of star production. Later, TNT's Mark Messier (26:49) sets the stage for Game 5 at MSG, outlines the keys to the game for each team and chats about pressure and leadership at this time of year.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, here we go. Once again, fastest hour in hockey history. Yeah, hopefully not. We've got good gas. We'll try to slow it down. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. It'll actually go faster now because we've got Mike Rupp, NHL network analyst coming on in a few minutes,

and then the great Marc Messier, of famer and six times stanley cup champion he'll help us tee up game five madison square garden so we're glad everybody's aboard here you're listening on sports net 590 the fans sports net 650 in vancouver and sports net 960 in calgary and watching on sports net 360 and sportsnet Plus. And remember, if you can't catch us live, download us wherever you get your pod. This hour of Real Kipper and Bourne is brought to you by Bet365. Sammy.

Well done, Kipper. That's really well done by you. Let me read you a stat. You ready? I'm ready. Sammy included this one for us. McDavid collected his fourth three-assist game of the playoffs.

That moves him into a tie for the second most in the single playoff year in nhl history with gretzky coffee and bob born whoa shout out dad on that way to go three family that's a decent year um very good year and uh he will be adding to that point total, I would imagine, Connor McDavid, if they can reach the Stanley Cup final, which the schedule came out for today. How's it look? It will start on June 8th,

which is in this next Saturday. And then it will finish potentially, if it goes to a seventh and deciding game, on Monday, June 24th. 24th oh my god seems like a long time does it not that's a lot to end and we're threatening july that's just it's too late boys goofy it's too late and looking sam you're saying that there's two there's days off but there's three days off between so it's's Monday. Game two is a Monday. Game three is a Thursday.

Game four is a Saturday. And then it goes to a Tuesday, a Friday, a Monday. So what is everybody supposed to do between like Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday? I'll tell you the truth. Forget that hockey is still going on. Yes. Go outside. Except for the local markets.

Go outside, probably. Lose momentum. To me, this is crazy. That's bad for the local markets. Go outside, probably. Lose momentum. To me, this is crazy. That's bad for the NHL's momentum, for sure. So. You're building towards something. Now you got the NHL head office, based on this schedule, just praying. I'm going to say it right now.

That it's the Rangers? Rangers, Edmonton. Oh, my God. Yeah. Praying. Prank. Prank. Prank. Yes. With this schedule here between Dallas and Florida,

people are checking out. Yeah. I think we may have to take a two-week hiatus until the draft. By people, do you mean us? I am the most. Not us. It's going to be John Dickey.

Squirrel. We're professionals. I'm the most diehard hockey fan I watch all the time. It's our job. And so I will pay attention. When I say the general hockey watching environment. Yes. Last year was a battle, boys, to get through that one even and it

was florida and vegas florida and vegas so i think i think it's even a little less intriguing maybe with dallas like i don't know if that's even i don't know so they're hoping for the rangers they're hoping for the oilers maybe we'll get a couple favorable calls game 7 june 24th yes correct as a draft june 25th it's's that week. During the third period, they're going to do the draft. Free agency opens in the post-game comments. So where's the time for like a general manager or a scout to enjoy winning a Stanley Cup if it's won in game seven before you have to worry about a draft? You don't.

The answer is you don't. You better have your plans made. And you're sliding a parade in there somewhere or a get-together at the mall. It would be days before, you would think. If it was in Florida, they'll head down to the beach and the 25 people will go there and look at the cup and they'll be done.

Oh, come on. You can pack in thousands. You know what, Sammy has to lean into that shtick. You can pack in thousands at Hooters parking lot. John Daly there ripping darts. That would be wild. Frog one million for the world championship sammy's got florida with hundreds yeah their parade yeah anyways well one step closer for the oilers i guess last night so it's nice to see them get off the schneid it was big swing last night the edmonton oilers came out and got their rear ends handed to them for 10 minutes then woke up and really i mean what a

performance after that it's been a really weird series in terms of the momentum swings where it's just one team sort of kicks the crap out of the other team for long stretches of these games do we have rup or can we have time to go to a deborah clip because he was pissed off after the game he got asked a question about the momentum swings. Do you want to hear it? Yeah, let's hear that. Okay, if we can get that DeBoer clip for us, Derek. Which would be clip one from DeBoer. Pete, I know that it's going both ways

but is there a way to better prepare your team for the sharp momentum swings that are clearly winning games in this series? Yeah, I think everyone's trying to prepare your team. You're three rounds in, so, you know. Yeah, I don't understand that question.

What do you mean prepare? What do you mean prepare your team? Well, I guess what we're seeing is when it turns, both teams are having a real hard time handling it when that momentum gets rolling. So is there a better way for them? You've got two good teams going at it. You've got two good teams going at it. You've got two good teams going

at it. I don't have an answer to that. That is testy. Why are you so pissy? I've been playing the game for a long time. And it is, there's no

definitive answer to that. I remember for a while analytics tried to be like, there's no momentum. No such. I remember for a while, analytics tried to be like, there's no momentum. No such thing as momentum. Watch a game. Let's get Mike Rupp.

You're the nerd. I know. If Pete DeBoer cannot answer those momentum swinging questions, maybe Mike Rupp can. Because he's won a Stanley Cup. DeBoer is still looking for one. You got answers, Ruppers? So you've got the secret sauce.

What's going to keep one team, either Edmonton or Dallas, from Jekyll and Hyde here? Oh, my gosh. Is it too late to learn how to do that when you're in the conference finals? I mean, I don't know. Yeah, you know what? I think that there's i'll speak more general terms because i i think that it is a thing right now i i find that right now i just

remembered the games where you have something happen and whether it's the coach or the players on the bench saying hey fellas we need a shift here and that can mean a hundred different things but that basically means we need to get start getting some momentum and the the best way to garner momentum is clearly a goal but i mean it's the national hockey league it's not that easy to go out there be like oh i'm going to score this shift and we're going to get momentum so i think sometimes it's just about playing in the right areas of the ice and and kind of slowing things, change the tempo, only make the play in front of the net if it's there and you've got a guy calling, like no hope plays, like let's turn our face towards the glass and protect the puck,

a little old school way. And once you start doing that, it kind of takes the wind out of the opponent's sail, right? And that's something I think both teams could probably be better at. And, you know, right now I feel like the approach in the National Hockey League in general is, hey, let's go out there and flip this game and get a goal. That's a slippery slope

because now you're trying things, you're trying to force things, and now you're just feeding into what the other team's doing. Rapper, for people who can't see you, you got two beautiful boxes of Warriors behind you. Do you still get, you're getting custom twigs still or what? No, no, no.

These are, we've got Warrior segments that we do here at the network. So it's actually really cool because they give us a list of all the Warrior guys and they're like, hey, pick out who you want to break down during these playoffs. And I'll say, all right, let's give me a today's, actually. We're doing Brandon Montour. And they just send us all these player sticks. So we've probably, I mean, over the years from Warrior to Bauer, we've got probably 75, 80 sticks of current players.

So I love it when we're in studio and something happens during the game. And everyone, you know, for example, everyone talks about Leon Dreisaitl, another Warrior guy. Shout out to them uh you know they'll they'll be like hey leon's got that big paddle he's got that long rangy stick i'm like oh let me get it and you kind of get a mess with it we get all the specs so the the equipment nerds would be in paradise here at NHL network it's pretty fun we got parents uh minor hockey parents watching every day going, I'm spending 400 bucks and they're just throwing them at you. What is wrong with this world?

I had a clip. If you guys remember a couple years ago, it's probably been about four years ago. Remember the Jamie Ben shift where he came off the ice, broke his stick over his knee, grabbed another one from the rack, broke it over his knee. I think one from the rack, broke it over

his knee. I think he did like three in a row. Bang, bang, bang. So we, we of course are having fun with it at the network the next day. And, um, one of the producers is like, can you break a stick over your knee? I'm like, absolutely. Let's go. So I go out there and I put hockey pants on. Cause I, you know, I'm going to protect my suit there and I bang, snapped it in half. You should have seen my inbox on social media. Just people telling me it was a disgrace and I'll just throw money away.

I'm like, hold on a second. Come on, man. That cost Warrior 11 cents and me nothing. I get it. I feel the parents in that regard. Sticks are kind of ridiculously priced. Yes. We're talking to Mike Rupp, NHL analyst, former NHL or Stanley

Cup champion, of course, and the owner of countless Warrior Sticks at $400 a pop. Robert, in a series with the momentum swings that we just spoke of, what does last night's victory for Edmonton coming back in fine fashion?

And I don't think it was a stretch for any of us to have said before the game, this is a must win for the Oilers. What do you think it can do moving forward to kind of alleviate those momentum swings or for just their confidence in general moving forward to kind of alleviate those momentum swings or for just their confidence in general moving forward yeah i thought that last night and it's so hard because if you if you talk about the good things or um i don't think the dell stars played a great game you know but i don't want that to take away from what edmonton did like that was probably one of the most complete efforts i've seen from the edmonton Oilers in the playoffs.

I don't think they've played a full 60 minutes yet. And so you can take that whatever way you want. Hey, we're pretty fortunate we're in the conference finals. We're two wins in the conference finals, and we haven't really put together a 60-minute performance. That was the closest thing to it. But I thought that they were more steady. They were more, I don't know, man.

They seemed to be playing with more conviction in the game. And I was, the way that puck went off Darnell Nurse for that second goal, I'm like, these guys are dead. They're done. Like, you know what I mean? And from what we've seen from this team, I don't know. I kind of consider them to be a little fragile at times they weren't they responded and uh but they didn't respond in a way where i mean you had

them a cloud goal which was gigantic it was huge um and you kind of got things moving but they they didn't try to win the game in one shift they just started playing their game and. And when they play their game, and the one thing I've learned about this team, I think we all have seen it, they can defend. Like, the narrative that this team is just an offensive juggernaut, like they need their power play, that's false. I mean, is there stretches that their defensive play stinks? And, yes, they need goals on the power play, 100%. But for the lion's share of what we see

from the edmonton oilers when they shut it down they shut it down in a two-goal lead with 55 minutes left in the game edmonton showed that they're pretty confident that they can come back and take control of the game and i thought they did a tremendous job one thing that's impressed me and we we do want to get to you and the rangers series at one point but last one on the oilers for me is knobluck has made some pretty aggressive moves at times and guys in and out and one of them being cory perry and ryan mcleod brings them back in the lineup drops them on leon dry sidles line and cory perry was he led the game and expected goals for a percentage if you like that sort of stuff but he was effective the line was effective you know what are your thoughts on on his ability to come in and help uh here's the thing that i loved about it and uh i mean this is a shot to some former coaches that i've had in the past uh i won't name their names but uh

it's you know coaches i like when coaches coach and they put their whatever you want to say i'll say i'll say they're next on the line as opposed to something else. But when they when they put themselves out there and they coach the team to win, don't coach for job preservation. Right. Like we see players come in the lineups to shake things up and they get B.S. minutes. They get thrown in situations where they're just trying to survive. Chris Knobloch didn't do that with these guys. You guys, who did who did McLeod and Perry play with last night? Leon Dreisaitl, right?

So, like, what a message to these guys. Like, we know, A, these guys are going to be fired up, ready to go. Corey Perry has 207 playoff games. 207 playoff games. Having him back in there, he knew he was going to be motivated. He was going to be impactful, like you just mentioned, Bordy. He was. He was going to be impactful, like you just mentioned, Bordy. He was. He was fantastic.

I mean, McCloud's been a pretty good piece for this team until things kind of dried up come playoff time. So it's not, hey, we're going to put you in there, ease you in, like see if we can shake it up. No, he allowed them to be a factor because he put them with a really good player and they can feel the game. So I find that maybe the McCloud goal, I mean, we had the Darnell Nurse who has taken up a lot of the oxygen as far as the media over the last 48 hours.

Darnell Nurse, middle lane drive. Corey Perry, who's been a scratch, takes the net. And McLeod, who has been a scratch, cleans up. I mean, that to me is that boost you need that would never happen if Knobloch did what some other coaches do, coach for their job and not coach to win the game. As far as the deeper dive into Darnell Nurse, our show, like countless of other ones,

spoke a lot about Darnell and the general conclusion is he's never going to be able to live up to this contract, but that's on the Edmonton Oilers. But at the same time, it didn't look good in the first, what, five minutes and 29 seconds. Tough start. Yeah, tough start. But it should be noted the character that he showed last night.

So, you know, for you, where is Darnell Nurse? Before game four, after after game four where is his overall game and where do expectations match you and not his contract so when I look at the certain guys and we revere them as being overpaid I mean

when you're looking at the market and we start putting some comps up there for what they make or that's Mero Heiskanen it's Kaleomever these whatever these guys are making and you're like oh these guys are in the ballpark of darnell nurse obviously that doesn't look great to what he is and what he does but if anybody watches darnell nurse he does some things that not many defensemen do in this league anymore and there's a price to have i tell guys that all the time depth players big players that are maybe skilled guys if you just get a little bit of a snarl you don't understand like instead

of making three million you're gonna make six million a year there's no one like that you know and when they talk about a defenseman like darnell nurse there's not many like that and some people might be rolling their eyes being like what are you talking about this guy's minus 18 or whatever the number is yeah things aren't going good for him right now. But when this guy's moving his legs, when he's playing with conviction and a little bit of a bite, he's a difference maker. And I get the way I look at it is all right. If you sign a guy to a deal like that, and you know, that guy's taking up a lot of your salary cap, you can still win with a guy like that, but you're going to have to compliment him. And your D core is going to have to be filled out with someone who's on a pretty good bargain that's playing probably outside their boots,

right? So that's the challenge. I think you can win with Darnell Nurse because he does things different. He's hard to play against. And I'd much rather pay a guy, what is he, nine and a half? Is that where he's at? I'd rather pay a guy nine and a half that's a son of a bitch to play against than pay a guy nine and a half and be like, he's supposed to get points he's not getting points like he still has value and but it's all with his skating his legs are everything and i think we saw his legs working last night how do you like uh people standing up to the media you know like connor brown had some comments talking about everyone and their dog going to darnell yesterday darnell himself didn't want to talk to the media very much.

You know, do you have any experience with sort of negative interactions? I feel like you were probably a popular media guy, but I'm sure you saw some teammates go through it. Yeah, I mean, listen, it's hard for me to comment on because, unfortunately, I never played in a Canadian market. I mean, I wish I would have been able to experience that in my career. I think there's pressures there that i don't know and um you know it's but just from seeing it and and having media um you know i i've always felt like the the this the big thing for me that i learned was just respect the media and and they'll respect you and you know i've had stretches where my game has stunk and I don't think I really had a media member called me out because I was the guy in the room when we lost, you know, seven,

one, and our captain was mad and throwing things in the locker room. I was the guy that went out and talked to them. They probably didn't want to talk to me, but they needed to do their job. Right. So I think that that goes a long way, but yeah,'s it's it's something where i think some guys it it it motivates them you know what i mean like they almost need that they need to have that friction and it makes you better and and some guys can't deal with it we've seen guys wilt under under that those kind of pressures so i don't know man i for me i don't think i've experienced it ever to that level but uh the best thing you could do is let your game do the talking don't say anything you know don't try to slight the media

just let your game do the talking and kind of go from there robert if we switch gears into the eastern conference is this one of the most lopsided two two uh game fives we've seen and maybe have her, I don't know your experience. It's, it's tough because I, I don't feel like the prime scoring chances are that far different. The, the gameplay, like this to me feels a lot like the last series the Rangers had against Carolina. You know what I mean? This is a team that in the Rangers had against Carolina. You know what I mean? This is a team that, and the Panthers and Carolina, what they do similarly is they control the flow of game,

and you're going to be on your heels a lot of the night. Now, can the Rangers, do the Rangers have better that they need to? They have to, yeah. I mean, Igor, if it's not for Igor Shcherkin, I don't know where this series is at. One concern that I have, and we were kind of jumping into it yesterday with some breakdowns, and Brian Boyle mentioned mentioned this and we were looking at some tape i don't know what happened i don't know i i'm not in that room but what i'm seeing watching the tape the

rangers have adjusted their defensive zone coverage and there's a lot of lost guys out there right now i'm concerned by it i don't know if it's because of those reasons, and it happened sometime during the Carolina series. They started moving more to man-on-man in the D zone. First off, my personal opinion, man-on-man doesn't work. It's not something that you're going to be able to do. It's not something that you should do, and you do that when you have an undisciplined team to be able to play zones.

Zone's the easiest thing in the world. I did it and grew up doing it in New Jersey. It's automatic. The Rangers did play that way for the whole season when they won the President's Trophy. And all of a sudden, I don't know if it's because the ice has felt tilted, but they've adjusted. And it's kind of a free-for-all in their D zone. I'm very intrigued to see what Peter Laviolette and his coaching staff does here in games five, six, and hopefully seven. But they got an uphill battle because you're right, Kipper.

I mean, this has been heavy play on one side. Robert, who's the concern on that blue line with man-on-man for you? Is it Adam Fox because he's not a physical guy the body language in the last game from all the players i just saw a lot of pointing and and and you could look at that as being like oh look at they're communicating i they're all hesitating and they're pointing they're trying to go and then there's times where uh there's many times where i'm seeing keandre miller almost up by the blue line in the defensive zone and then you've got his d partner jacob truba that's over by the boards and the only guy anywhere near the front of the nets mika's advantage yet like i don't know why or how that's a thing and

it happens consistently so i don't know if it's an individual i'm seeing a lot of forwards have no idea what they're doing. There was a shift, and this isn't to call out players. I think they're chasing right now. There's a shift where Will Cooley played every forward position in a defensive zone over 20 seconds. And they're just chasing players, and that's the thing. Florida, if you know a team is doing that, and here's the thing, they haven't done it, so why would you change that now?

Like, that's not something you could just do overnight. I think Florida is, they're a team that can exploit that. They're a smart team that they're going to hang on the pucks. They're going to grind you down. And by the time the Rangers do get the puck, they've been out there for 45 seconds, and they're just trying to get the darn red line to dump it in and change. Does it surprise you how much of the Rangers' offense has come from Lafreniere and Trochek?

Probably not so much Trochek. I mean, he's been incredible, man. He's been unbelievable for them. This guy has been such an incredible signing for this team. The season he had this year year the playoffs he's had i mean outside of igor um you know this guy would be up in that consummate conversation for me the laugh has been incredible what he's done uh you know panarin is he's been getting you know but same thing with with mika they're getting points but you need panarin you need to advantage yet you need crider

to pop in some goals. And so yes, am I a little bit surprised? If you were to say going into this series that Igor Shcherkin would be the best goalie in the playoffs right now, that Vincent Trochek would still be continuing his

Kahn-Smythe-esque playoffs and Alexei Lafreniere is going to have his coming out party in the National Hockey League playoffs. I'd be like, oh, this team's cruising. The problem is you're lacking some other things right now. So if those other things, a la Mika, Krides, and Panarin, don't get going, I don't see how they win.

Knobloch is getting kudos for his lineup change last night in edmonton laviolette puts in blake wheeler and he's a big part of that overtime goal and now it looks like he does going back in and wheelers out is that is that just a coach that took a chance on a on a veteran that just doesn't have it anymore and on top of that he hadn't played since, what, February? Was that just too much of a long shot? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what you guys thought. Listen, I don't blame Blake Wheeler at all on that penalty.

He's not the fleetest of foot. I think he has to hook Barkov there. He wasn't back enough to kind of take away the one way that Barkov can go. So we had to get a stick involved. I mean, it's an offensive zone turnover while your D's change in that starts that whole play. Yeah, I don't know. I think that they need a little bit of a boost. They need some sort of, I mean, this Panthers team's physical.

Like, they've got to have some more juice. And Blake Wheeler, I think he's still serviceableable but he's not going to give you juice right and and that's why tonight i i really think and they've been trying to find a winger with zabena jad and kreider i'd like to see we've seen jack rosovic and there's times where jack rosovic will pull you out of his seat out of your seat i should say but then there's times where it's not working. There's times where we're seeing Kako go up there. I'd like to see Will Cooley.

Will Cooley has not lit up the playoffs at all. I know he's a left-hand shot. Let's play him on his offside up there with those guys. They need someone just to mix it up, man. Let's mix this up and see what he can bring, but that's where my eyes are going to be. If that line can come through, they come through, Rangers are in a great spot.

But I got to shake up that right wing, line one. Rupert, great stuff, man. Always appreciate your time. We know you're real busy. Keep up the great work. And, you know, if you got a couple of broken Warrior sticks, send them up. My dad still.

Sammy's a lefty. We still plant potatoes or tomatoes in the garden. Thanks for doing this, buddy. Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. You guys take care. Tomatoes, cucumbers. You got old sticks in there? Does he have old sticks in the garden?

Buddy, my dad saw it at Marylam Mew to grow tomatoes one time. I'm like, what are you doing? It's the staple for Canadian Greeks oradian greeks or canadian italians like that's the the sawed off it's a perfect is the perfect thing sherwood pmp the leading producer of roma tomatoes in toronto all right sammy what do you have for us let's go to break we gotta get the mess all right we'll do game time after mess sounds good you heard the man more when we return real kipper and boring Boren. Mark Messier up next.

Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk, the Hockey PDO cast with Dimitri Filipovich. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kiprios, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, Derek brandeo jake the snake schultz and now the man the myth the legend let's bring in mark messier no time to waste here moose how are you pal you're doing great great to be on with you guys so let me ask you yeah a little plug for call Callaway on the way back. Yeah, there you go. Hey, let me ask you, conference final, game five, Madison Square Garden,

a little envious tonight? I wish I was there. Well, I don't wish I was playing. That's gone a long time ago. It is exciting, though. I do get that feeling when the springtime comes around and it starts to get a little humid out and warm. And I remember those days walking into those arenas, like walking into the Lions Den.

Got great, great memories. But then reality strikes, and I realize that that ship has sailed a long time ago. So where is reality for the New York Rangers? We know they're tied at 2-2, but the feeling is with shots on goal or attempted shots, it's just been a one-way street in the series in favor of the Florida Panthers.

What do the Rangers draw out that can bring them back down to earth in terms of saying, okay, outside of being 2-2, we're not going to win this series unless what changes? Well, the numbers are starting to stack up against the Rangers. If you look at every analytic, you would say that they're completely getting overwhelmed in all four games. The good news for the Rangers is that the only stat that really matters

is in the one loss column, and they're tied 2-2 in the series. So that's, that's the good news. The Rangers, in my opinion, they have to up the ante in the, in the effort. And I'm not saying they're not, I wouldn't call it effort. Maybe that's not the wrong word. I would say the desperation part of their game, the Panthers are playing a game that is far more desperate than the Rangers right now. And you can see it all over the ice.

Their feet are moving without the puck. They're putting constant pressure on the Rangers' defense, hemming the minutes at a time, it seems. And the Rangers just need to look at it. It's a hard time of year right now. You know, if you look at the fact that you're six wins away from winning a Stanley Cup, but it's a lifetime away. And you can't get caught up into, you know, how close we are or how far away it is for me if I was in the locker room anyways right now.

I think the Rangers have to up the ante. That's simple. That's the answer. They've got to ask more of themselves per man. They're getting the goaltending that they need at this time of year, and they're not doing themselves any favors with the workload that's going into it on the other end. And the guys that are not producing at this time of year,

you've got to find a way to get yourself involved in the series. The way that you normally play hockey during the regular season obviously isn't working right now. You're not going to be given the opportunities to score. You have to go earn the opportunities. You have to get in there. You have to get yourself involved in the middle of the game. Somehow, some way, you've got to get your fingerprints on the series uh for the rangers they've been getting great depth

scoring which is exactly what you want but at some point at some point their best players have got to get themselves involved in this series in order for them to win it well and i want to ask you a little bit more about that i don't know if it ever happened because you would have been one of the top guys on all of your teams but you know if you've had guys on your teams that are struggling is it can it come from a coach or can it come from a teammate to say hey we need more out of you like guys like zabana jad panera and they know right now that they're not producing that they need to do more so is that purely it's got to come from them internally just find another level yeah i i look at everybody's

sensitive to everybody on the team i mean that those are you know you got four teams left there playing i can probably almost guarantee that every one of them are tight-knit uh team uh they care about each other deeply they spend a lot of time together and when someone is struggling yeah the teammates can pick them up and give them words of you know assuredness and the coach can talk to them and all things but unfortunately confidence doesn't come in five gallon buckets you can't come into the locker room and say here's five gallons of good confidence said it you know you got to get out there and earn it the way you earn it is by trusting your instincts and trusting the work that you put in to the game from the start of training camp all the way now and and

and rely on that but more importantly that you have to be able to flex outside your comfort zone at this time of year and sometimes you know you know if you're drawing up a game plan of course the panthers aren't going to let panarin beat them of course we're not going to let zimbanijev beat them of course i mean those are the guys that they got to shut down. And so far they've done a good job of it. If you watch in a neutral zone, Forsling, who's ever up against Panera and they're on him early. So he's not getting the opportunity to carry the puck through the neutral zone much at all. And so the only way that you can do it is where we're saying most of the goals scored in playoffs, you got to get in front of the net. You got to to get some rebounds. You've got to get some deflections.

And score some goals that don't necessarily... Oh, we just got muted there. Did you lose him? I lost him. We got you back? Yeah, still no audio at this point. We'll'll call all right we'll we'll find him back and i think i think that's what he he's kind of talking about with his advantage ad because a lot was made out of that forced pass to wheeler and now it didn't lead to a penalty shot like most

of us thought it would have but it did lead lead to the power play that ended up ending the game. Yeah. With the Sam Reinhardt goal. But this is, this is basically, and Mark, hopefully we got you back here, but I was just talking about Zibanejad and, and,

and the forced play to Wheeler that, that led to the power play goal. And it, does that stem from a guy who's just feeling the heat of being one of the rangers highest paid players and not producing i mean forcing a pass like that is that is that a guy that's feeling it right now well the the natural instinct is to try to pressure try to force your way into the series by doing things that don't come naturally and the most important thing you can do as an offensive player is to play solid defense and not not get yourself exposed and not become a liability defensively to even hurt your team further so i think they got to really stay

disciplined and play inside the team concept of uh of their of their of their defensive side defensive responsibilities but then when they do get on the offense, they got to get, you know, as you know, Kipper, it's north-south this time of year. I mean, there's no secrets to it. Look at Edmonton last night. They out-hit, you know, the team at least 2-1 in the hit department. You know, and Dallas isn't necessarily an over physical, physical team,

but still Devinson took a tomb last night. And even with the two, nothing lead, they, they really started the press and their desperation mode was definitely, it was on, you could see it watching the game. So yeah,

I think you got the instinct is to try to do too much and try to force things. But the reality is you got to just stay composed, composure, composure, composure at this time of year as an offensive guy and defense first, or as an offensive guy defense first, and then try to look for your opportunities. It's been funny listening to Paul Maurice between games and talking about how you need to enjoy these times and the moments that they're in and all that.

I want to get your thoughts on what a coach's role is at this point where systems are not really changing. Lines are pretty consistent. I know you do a little juggling throughout the game, but as a player on a team this deep in the playoffs, what do you want from a coach at this point? I think when you get to the point right now, I think all the games,

all the, all that is over with now. I think that you want to know that your coach is in the canoe with you and we're all paddling in the same direction. I think that, you know, you can spend your year and trying to tweak guys and motivate guys and inspire guys and all the thing right now. But at the players at this time of year it, a lot of this becomes mental right now. Obviously, physically, they're grinding their way through the season.

Everybody's playing hurt. Everybody's playing with injuries. Everybody's playing with bumps and bruising. Nobody feels that great, to be honest with you. And you pile through it. And so it becomes really a mental test of who can withstand the pain and who can push themselves harder when things get tough. And so for me, at this time here, it all boils down to the mental side of the game.

Who wants it more? Who needs to win? I mean, we all want to win, but it's a big difference of needing to win as opposed to wanting to win. And if you need to win, you're going to go the extra mile. You're going to take a stop of shot with your face and eat the puck or, you know, whatever you need to do to win. And that I think is a mentality that is required at this time of year. When you see that the parody of the four teams that are playing right now, the difference is going to be who will, who's willing to go further uh who's

willing to push themselves further what teams are willing to sacrifice themselves more and oftentimes that's a difference at this time of year and that becomes that gets down to not so much physical but more mental it's funny you mentioned that uh about about coaching this time of year because i can recall 30 years ago right around this time when we weren't sure if a certain i was wondering if you're gonna remember that mass 30 years ago we weren't sure if a certain mike keenan was in our canoe, but a certain captain, I think through him, a life jacket and turn things around for us. Let's have that story. Can you recall? Speaker 3 4th, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 010, 011, 012, 013, 014, 015, 016, 017, 018, 019, 020, 021, 022, 023, 023, 024, 025, 026, 027, 028, 029, 030, 030, 031, 033, 033, 033, 034, 035, 036,

036, 037, 037, 038, 039, 040, 040, 040, 040, 040, 040, 040, 040, 040, 040, 040, 040, 040, 040, 040, say me say it before is that you know coaches aren't gods they don't know everything they do make mistakes like everybody else um mike uh had a penchant for pushing a little too hard at the right times we saw it in philadelphia we saw it in chicago at times um he got those teams to the probably under man teams against the oil or the great or other teams in philadelphia and then of course mary lomia when he was in Chicago there so it wasn't that his teams were better in losing they were probably outgunned if you really look at it

realistically but I think for us back in 94 Kipper you know there probably was some mistakes in decisions and they're not mistakes that are made for the wrong reasons they're mistakes that are made for the wrong reasons. They're mistakes that are miscalculated.

And, of course, Mike wanted to win like we all did, and he thought that what his moves were going to do was help inspire or motivate the team, and unfortunately we had the reverse effect. The good news is that we had a strong enough leadership team in there that I could go in with the other guys and talk to Mike and make a correction. And to Mike's credit, you know, he did. He did come in and talk to the players and basically, you know, said it wasn't the right thing to do. It was a mistake. And then we were able to kind of move on from it because we were strong enough mentally and strong enough from a leadership group that we didn't let it linger.

But when things like that happen during the regular season or even the playoffs, you can't let things fester. You know, everybody will look for an excuse to go home because it's hard right now. And if you give them enough excuses, they're going to they're going to lay down. So the most important thing you can do is take all the excuses off the table. Make sure everybody's on board. Everybody's in agreement with what we're doing and the way we're trying to achieve our ultimate goal. And then you eliminate those excuses, and that's what we were able to do in 94

and get back on the horse and get our attention completely on the next game at hand. Mess, I think people who didn't play think that when they think of leadership, they think of some like rousing, remember the Titans speech or something. But leadership on a day-to-day basis isn't that, right? It's showing up and working hard and, you know, kind of taking care of your own business. But I do wonder, were there any moments throughout your career where there was a speech, where there was someone who stood up in the room and said something at the right time

that actually changed the tone for a team you were on? Oh, many times, you know, and it can come from anybody. It doesn't have to necessarily come from the leaders. I remember Donnie Jackson in 1984 standing up and before we're getting ready to go for the third period, you know, in the deciding game and sitting up and telling a joke, you know, it can come in all different kinds of forms. And I think the most important thing is everybody should feel comfortable enough to voice their opinion or do something like Donnie did.

It was almost like it was almost comic relief. And it kind of let the air out of the balloon for us and we went out there a little more relaxed perhaps. So, you know, there are times where words matter, you know, but not all the time, to your point. I think, you know, if you want to be a winner, it becomes

a lifestyle. You don't decide to start becoming a winner in May. This is years and years and years of the making. Your habits on and off the ice, your dedication to the sport, how you can become a better player, always being curious and asking yourself, what can I do better?

How can I become a better teammate? So just because a playoff start doesn't mean that you start playing playoff hockey. This has to be deeply ingrained into you to not retaliate, to leave your ego at the door, to do everything you can for the team, to never let the moment or the circumstance become too big or too overwhelming. And that's why trust becomes such a massive part at this time of year. You have to be able to trust each other uh inside that dressing room and the coach has to be able to trust that when he puts you on the ice that you're going to do your job you're going to be where you're supposed to be at the right time on the ice

and then if you got that going for you that only gives you a chance just a chance even if you have all those things going but the greatest part about for me as playoff hockey is that not only can anybody on the team stand up at a certain time and say something that might make a difference, but as we've seen in these playoffs year after year, anybody can be a hero in any given game. And we've seen it with depth players, role players, score big goals at big moments. We've seen guys in the season that already have more goals in the playoffs than they did during the regular season.

So the playoffs are special, and they're special for a reason there because there's a lot of character that goes into the players and teams, and it doesn't happen by chance. There's a lot of work that goes into it. Even leadership can come from a fourth liner thinking he's a lounge singer in the dressing room singing Brandy. There's a port on a Western Bay and it serves. Gipper, you know how big a role you played in 94.

I don't need to tell you. Thank you, my friend. Hey friend hey listen i want to give a shout out to darnell nurse because he's taken a lot of heat in the last 24 48 hours and you know he's on the ice for the first two goals in what five and a half minutes but he he comes back mess he didn't he didn't guarantee uh that the oilers would win like you did 30 years ago, but it did show something out of the big guy last night in Edmonton. Look at it. As a player, you got to be able to handle the heat at this time of year.

You're not going to play great for two months straight. You are going to make mistakes. You are going to hear the consequences of not performing at the level that people expect of you. That's the nature of the beast. And if you can't handle that, then you're in the wrong business. And the, the, the, you also at the same time, but having said that, you have to have an unwavering belief in yourself because it is hard. It is hard to be a winner. It is hard to be a winner.

It is hard to be a Stanley Cup champion. And for me, the most important thing is that, you know, the players believed in me. And the reason why they believed in me is because they saw the effort that was put in during the year. They saw the work ethic on and off the ice, the focus, the dedication during the year. They saw the work ethic on and off the ice, the focus, the dedication to the game. And we all look at each other because we're all on this journey

together. And if someone's struggling, of course we're looking and we're trying to pick him up and help him out. Darnell Nurse, there's nowhere to hide. All you can do is get out there and give your best. And of course you have to be conscious enough to understand why you're not playing well and what you need to do and be willing to change your game at this time of year and what you can do better. So if that's watching tape or talking to coaches or doing something to get your mind off or whatever you need to do, you know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again when it's not working.

So sometimes changes are needed, and that change can come from a lot of different perspectives. But if you're expected to play at a certain level at this time of year, you've got four teams left that are trying to win the Stanley Cup. McDavid said at the start of the year, Cup or bus for them. Dallas is right there. Rangers said the same thing. Rangers said the same thing.

Florida said the same thing. So we got four teams that are built to win. Now want to win. Now are able to win now and report well, fortunately or unfortunately, in order to do that, you have to perform. And if you're not performing, you're going to hear about it because all eyes are on you right now. Speaker 2, Matt, awesome stuff, man. Really, really appreciate it. Thanks for joining us. Enjoy the game tonight. And listen, any thoughts

like so much talk about before you hit them, before you hit them just quickly. A lot of talk about the comparisons to 1994 to the Rangers this year, whether it was winning the President's Trophy, a first-time coach, OJ's name in the... But there's also one that's still alive here,

and that's the Rangers in a Stanley Cup final versus a Canadian team here. I mean, that would be the ultimate look for you 30 years later, two teams that you captained in a Stanley Cup final. Yeah, it is incredible, actually. And I actually did pick the Rangers and the Oilers to make it to the finals this year. And that was a hard choice because, obviously,

Dallas was a strong team. I thought Vegas was going to maybe be there. And, of course, the Panthers, you know, you talk about a team that's focused and hungry. So if they do both get there, they're going to have beaten some good teams along the way. But it would be incredible to see, obviously, for Canada to have Edmonton in there.

For myself personally, both teams and the Rangers. And there are some similarities with this team's Rangers and us in 94, Nicky, as you know. And the most important similarity that I see is that they are playing like a team. And I don't think there's, if you look up the definition of a team in a team sport, the 94 Rangers were that. And you can attest to that. I mean, we were a team in every way.

Everybody had their roles. Everybody played their roles. Everybody accepted their roles. And sometimes their roles. Everybody accepted their roles. And sometimes it's not always the best team that wins. It's the team that's playing the best as a team that wins the Stanley Cup. And I think that was us for that year. We may not have been the most talented team, although we had some pretty darn good players,

Leach and Zubov and Kovalev and all that. But we had a lot of grinders and grit and determination in our, in our core guys, a lot of leaders in their own right. So, you know, it, it,

it takes a lot of different ingredients to make a team, but 94 was one of them. 30 years ago. And yet it feels like yesterday. Hey, Moose, thanks for doing this pal. We never age,

right? The great Mark Messier, everybody. Thank you. Oh man. Just listen to him forever. i love it like really happy i didn't i gotta tell you don't you feel a little more inspired after listening to the man as a guy who grew up uh with islanders blood who grew up in british columbia talking about the 94 rangers every day has been my personal hell kit but

talking to mark messier makes it all worthwhile. You know, but beyond cheering for teams or anything, just to listen to him describe on how to win and how difficult it is. Let him get in game day, will you? Or game time?

Oh, man. I just got to say, I'm really happy to not have to play hockey against Mark Messier. Oh, I forgot. Okay, game time. We have to do game time.

It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19+. Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

Got to be a quick one today, but I cooked up the get off the schneid parlay while you guys are talking to Marc Messier. For a Panarin and Sabine Jad both to score a goal tonight. It is plus 850. So both those guys get off the schneid

back at Madison Square Garden. Away we go. They get back into the series with both of those guys who've been much maligned getting on the score sheet. Can you see the Rangers winning without it? No. So that's why. Hard to see.

It's really hard to see. Plus 850 with those two guys to score. And that was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's ever ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19+. Ontario only. Please play this responsibly.

And he mentioned Don Jackson telling a joke. Yeah. Two-time Stanley Cup champion. I went up and looked at his hockey DB. He won five DEL championships as a head coach in six years. Does it list the joke?

Three straight, two straight. So there you go. Don Jackson. Don't know. All right. Our thanks to Stanley Cup champions Mike Rupp and six-time Stanley Cup champion Marc Messier. Fun show today, guys.

Great. Fast, but fun. Enjoy your Ranger-Florida Panther game tomorrow, and we're on Off the Rails Friday with Doug McClain tomorrow. If you get a chance, give us a rating and review. Enjoy the game tonight, everybody.