Real Kyper & Bourne - Run It Back or Run Away?

Episode Date: May 17, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee open with some more Kyle Dubas talk, what's holding up a decision on his future and the news today that the Arizona Coyotes could be on the move shortly. They are joined by Garry Galley from NHL on Sportsnet (46:19) who shares his take on another year of Canadian-Cup drought, the Leafs’ possibly 'blowing it up' and who has a leg up going into the Conference Finals. Next up, Frank Seravalli from the Daily Faceoff joins the show to reveal what’s realistic and what’s not in the rumours surrounding Dubas, the Coyotes' Plan B and who would be the front-runner city to take over the team (1:06:58). Finally, host of NHL on Sportsnet David Amber joins the show (stamp) and gives his thoughts on the Leafs’ playoff run, winning formulas for salary structure and the advantage gained by no-state-tax teams. The guys end the show going through Oilers' locker cleanout day press conferences.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Fan. We're live on Sportsnet 590 The Fan, Sportsnet's YouTube channel, Sportsnet Now, iTunes, Spotify, wherever you are watching, listening. Thanks for climbing aboard the Real Kipper and Born train. We don't know what we are anymore we've lost our identity kip sputtering real kipper and born i don't know golf cart maybe that's it still nothing on the leaf front when it comes to kyle dubas all quiet Are we closer to a Dubas extension? Certainly would have got that feeling Monday if we didn't see that.

What would you call Monday's press conference from Kyle Dubas? A hanging curveball or a flat out change up or a knuckleball? Definitely a knuckleball. That's an R.A. Dickey 69 mile an hour. And I can't use that number on anywhere, but it's a, it's a knuckle ball repertoire. And Aaron judge would have been looking down the first baseline at it to

know that the knuckle ball was coming. But like, what is, you know, Kip you, I loved before we came on here, you're just like like you're trying to assess your own energy for like where where do you feel how do you feel about where things are at

well you know yeah you know maybe i should have saved that uh just to kind of bring the the watcher listener into like where we're at and you know let's face it like we're we're trying to make believe show right we we don't hide that. That's what they wanted us to do from the very beginning. A lot of what we do and say is based off of the Leafs all season long. In the playoffs, we play off of their energy. The fans, we know, play off of their energy, and we try to find it and bring it towards a two-hour show.

You come to a screeching halt and what did i say to you just before we're going up off or going on air i'm like jb where's your energy right now i don't know where mine is right now well and i'm you know and i'm saying he was like oh well you know once we get into this like david camp contract and samson off but that's not it that's not energy. The energy is what the heck is going on. You know, like they're huge franchise altering decisions hanging and there's just nothing out there. I just,

um, what do we do now? Ralphie pretty much for two hours. We can ask that question, but like you, so you have all of this, you're on this roller coaster of the but like you, so you have all of this, you're on this roller coaster of the playoffs and you're so emotionally tied into it because of what we do two hours

a day comes to a screeching halt. And you think for the most part, Monday would have been a kind of a formality, lots of questions that need to be answered, but nobody really expected any answers on Monday. I thought part of the reason they're taking so long is PR going over with them how to not say anything. You know, like here is what you're likely to be asked about. Here's likely how we want to handle it. But we didn't get that from Kyle.

Sheldon did it beautifully. Kyle went on his own yeah and left it hanging that regardless of my contract situation i'm not sure where i am on my return here. And then of course articulated that, uh, the main reason is, uh, his family reasons.

How do you think, do you think that they were surprised by what he said? Or do you think they, you know, kind of had some sense of what the issues were with him. And that was just the honest answer of where he's at. That's a good question. I think,

I think they don't love it. I think, I think that based on how quiet it is, I'm not sure anybody was expecting anything. Yeah, I agree. I think part of probably what's frustrating, if you were hesitant to offer him a contract

and then you kind of offer him one, you know, recently was kind of the notion that this is up to Kyle. It's his job if he wants to have it. And, you know, doesn't it feel like if he wants to do it, he'll be back? Does that surprise you in and in itself? Yeah. You thought there was a real shot that they would have fired him or really uh or it not not extend him yeah yeah i thought

there was a real shot that they would just say we've decided to change course or and that's that's legit yeah but yeah so to be here where it's like Kyle seems to be deciding whether he wants to be a part of it or not. Let's bring in Sammy McKee here, our trusted barometer when it comes to Leaf Nation. Can I – I made a massive faux pas today, quickly, before I give you my dubious take. Well, I'm looking at your lineup, and I don't see any spelling mistakes.

Well, yeah, it's because I copied and pasted the Arizona Coyotes thing straight from their website, so I couldn't make any mistakes. But this morning, I dragged my good friend Eric Prime out of bed at 630 for us to play golf. Golf day. Golf day. You know, I like to play golf before I do the show. We arrive at my local course, Lakeview.

Spectacular. A little cold this morning, but ready to play. Really looking forward to it. Bundled up. Get to the starter. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm here for the 720. And he's like, there's no McKee 720. There's no time here.

You did not book a tee time. You have no tee time. So you have to go home. So I dragged my buddy out of bed. Sam fans book a tee time online. So what made you think you had one when you didn't have one? I went in and I did the whole thing. I guess I just didn't hit finish reservation.

You just checked it was available. Yep, it's open. And then didn't confirm it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I felt pretty guilty about that. Had to go home. Played nine holes at Centennial, but it wasn't quite the same. If it makes you feel good, I've once gone to an ATM machine and withdrew like 200 bucks

and I left with the receipt and my card and left the 200 bucks yeah that sucks that's a tough swing you get the 200 back that's a tough swing wasn't in the lost and found when he got back no i don't think i did i didn't i was and i probably should have said something to the bank because they have cameras and that, but I don't even think I realized it until a week later. And by then I'm too embarrassed. Yeah, it's gone too far at that point. All right, so book tea time and hit the send button next time.

It was embarrassing for me. What are your thoughts about Monday? Like we've gone, there's been a couple of days between here, a little breathing room. Is there anything you feel differently about what you heard Monday out of Kyle? Does it confuse you even more right now? I just think we probably should have heard something by now. I think, like, you know, the looming offseason that we've talked about so many times here in this week,

it's really looming. Like, it's, you know, like we've talked about the amount of time that you sort of have here to figure out all these franchise-altering decisions that you have in this offseason. Like, they're sneaking up. Like, I know it's like there's the semifinals, the final, but it's kind of you're supposed to be doing work during this time. Like is he doing work as the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs? Like is he off?

I would believe he's going to have an answer today of some variety. Is it possible that he's using this time to explore other opportunities or does he have to wait for his contract to expire? That would be such a crappy thing to do i agree it would be like are you committed to being here or not and then so if it's not go ahead if it is don't go shop so do you think that there's a possibility he just played that out so he could negotiate or go find another job which he said he won't.

Yeah, you're right. He played he covered himself off. Did he not when he said if I'm not here, I'm not anywhere? I just think What I would say is that I definitely don't have it in me to go anywhere else.

Don't you think? all these things that we're confused about or questioning it, they're all legit because he put that out there. We didn't make this stuff up on our own. Like, he's left it open for us to for us or anyone else to go still like what the heck is going on here don't like don't you think the more time that goes past here the more likely it feels like this may not yes go on yes i do i think that's very i would say today i expect to hear something because it's been whatever, 48 hours since that. They've had plenty of time to chat.

And if you don't hear something by today, tomorrow, the next day, you start to go, okay, well, it's just not going to work out then. And don't you, like, I feel like maybe there's something to what Kipper was saying about him negotiating with that, with that press conference and the way he was talking about in the media but like the way it came across to me if i'm one of the board members or if i'm brendan shanahan the questions i'm asking myself are like is this guy still good to do this is he still like okay pal you're right like is your heart still behind this like i know you're a

passionate guy and i know you wear your heart in your sleeve and like you know you care we are we get that but at the end of the day you're still the general manager of the toronto maple leaves and i think like they're i think that press conference could be perceived as a little bit unprofessional in some ways don't you think listen i think it's all open it's all open sammy for sure and again uh we live in an era in a society now where we understand mental health and awareness. And I don't necessarily think that that was a guy up there that was putting on an act on that. I do believe that he was sincere in feeling a lot of those things. But in saying that,

in saying that, there has to be a level of respect for the organization as well, or the fan base to say, okay, essentially what you asked for Monday was a timeout. T, T, T, T, T, T, T. This is getting away from me. T.

Yeah. Okay. That's fine. But is it. Zach Morris freeze. To your point. Is it a one-day timeout? Is it how long do the Leafs wait? Well, the days...

Or the fans wait. It's May 17th. All of this happens July 1st. Quick math, it's probably about 43 or 44 days. You know, each one counts. There's a lot of UFAs. There's major trades to be made. There's people to call.

I mean, he's under contract now. I'm sure he could be doing that stuff, but feel like there's bigger fish to fry there. Haggling over terms, lawyers involved in a very tough contract here maybe. You've negotiated a couple deals. You know, these people, I'll get back to you. We'll get back to you.

I'll get back to you. The one thing that I've written about as well lawyers is that there's a lot on the line going into game six and seven against tampa bay there was a sense that there was an accomplishment there in and itself a first round even though that as sam has alluded to the bar is really low and that's okay because I haven't heard a lot of people call this year an accomplishment, but at the time, I agreed. It was massive. They had to win that.

Okay. That was a big-time hurdle crossed for them, for this franchise. Actually, without it, we're not even having this conversation. You can't bring back the GM at that point. It's already done. There was a real sense that after beating Tampa Bay, that every win moving forward could only put more money in his pocket. And when a guy doesn't sign a contract extension or isn't offered a contract extension one

way or another, he's betting on himself. And usually that's risk and huge rewards. So was he in a position now to take something that was already on the table and say, I'm going to wait and I'm going to see with every win I get here how much more I can add to that contract. I also feel like employers don't love that. You know what I mean mean like you're about worth

what you're worth and logically one win two wins three wins in that round shouldn't fundamentally make a huge difference in his value that's 31 other teams and then there's mLSC. Yeah. Okay. Who have no problem handing out $12 million to executives on the basketball side. And I don't care. I don't care that NBA is a $9 billion revenue stream and NHL is like four or five. It's pretty relevant, is it not? Probably matters. But on the scale of what the

Leafs drive. Yeah, the Leafs are different. The Leafs are different. The Leafs are different. For sure. So it would make Brendan and Kyle to say, okay, we're not basketball NBA type of money guys, but I'm not just 25% of what they're making. I should be up around half of what they're making

or 60% of what they're making. Am I crazy in thinking that Brendan would have a tougher case? I think he recently extended. I think he extended two years ago okay but like if you ask me whose job performance if you evaluate them you know hand in hand shanahan or dubas who's done a better job a worse job over there the length of their tenure at the leafs organization shanahan built everything from the start right from lou lamorello the tear it down the tank get matthews and whatever and here we are he's had more time to see his vision play out and fail

than kyle it's not you know i do you get my point here that like to me brendan looks worse than kyle in terms of performance of the franchise here if you're going to hold anyone's feet to the fire for the lack of Stanley cup so far, but there's never been any sense that Brendan's job is in jeopardy. And I actually, by the way, I want to clarify,

I think he's done a good job and I like the guy. It's nothing personal, but I just objectively viewing performances. I think it's easier to say this guy maybe hasn't done the Shanna plan is not. Yeah. It hasn't worked. Yeah.

It hasn't worked up until this point yeah and that's that's legit we assume that he probably has and this is a guesstimate that he's got two or three more years left on the deal that probably pays him between 15 and 20 million dollars over those years over those years yeah mean, that would be totally justifiable given Masai's salary. Yeah, and then, so then where was Kyle in all of this without a contract and feeling like if I can get to a conference final or a Stanley Cup final, I could write my own ticket.

That would have been a natural feel for anybody in that position. Yeah, I know sometimes if I've got 50 bucks on a game, how much I'm invested in it. Imagine Dubas, no wonder he's throwing water bottles and yelling at fans. The man was sitting on schmillions. So I don't know where that stands on an extension now. We just did it again.

We just talked this in circles for 15 totally unintentionally. Pretty much. Do you guys want to talk about the Coyotes? I mean, I do. Let me just tell everybody that in about, what, five minutes, we're going to have Gary Gally, former NHLer. Always great to have him on the show. We'll talk about the playoffs, what he expects in the next round,

and we'll get his thoughts on the Toronto Maple Leafs, which he always has a great, great one. Frank Cervelli, NHL insider, president of hockey content on Daily Faceoff. Maybe he's got some insight into Kyle Dubas and the Coyotes. Ron Hainsey promoted at the NHL Players Association as well. So, yeah, let's get into Phoenix or Arizona.

Arizona Coyotes. I'm resorting to their tough Phoenix or Arizona. Arizona Coyotes. I'm resorting to their tough Phoenix days, too. You know, we once had a player on the Leafs whose name I mispronounced, and you said if he plays well enough, you know, it's up to him. If he plays well enough, we'll learn how to say his name. Coyotes have not earned the respect of knowing what they're called. You can call them Phoenix, call them Arizona, call them the Southwestern Coyotes.

It doesn't matter at this point. I mean, the fans who've stuck with it are troopers, are maybe somewhat masochistic. I don't know, but that franchise. So just a quick update. Tempe, the voters did not approve a new building in a nutshell. No, they turned down a $2.1 billion entertainment facility that's currently a landfill. They would rather have the landfill than the Coyotes.

They'd rather a dump. They'd rather a literal dumpster fire than the Coyotes. I don't get that. I think they just don't care about hockey at all. It was going to be busier traffic getting to the airport and a little bit noisy because sometimes planes were going to fly overhead and they're like, ah, can't do it. I can't be waiting in traffic.

This was absolutely crushing. And by the way, they didn't like, oh, they eked out a no vote. Like they got pumped. People were like, we do not want you. So was there a statement? Gary Bettman put out a statement for the National Hockey League. Arizona Coyotes president and CEO Xavier Gutierrez. Did I say that correctly?

Gutierrez. Gutierrez. Gutierrez. Also had issued a statement talking about his disappointment. And I think today Bill Daly came out and reassured everybody that Arizona will be back at their college facility at Mullet Arena. Is that? Yeah, that's what Daly said.

And Elliott confirmed that they're going to play in Mullet Arena next year, which is unbelievable to have a franchise playing a 5,000-seat rink while likely not playing in that state the next year. Well, they look. Salt Lake City doesn't have a rink yet. They're building one for the next Olympics, apparently. Houston. I don't get the sense of Houston's that

hot on a hockey team Kansas City doesn't have like a an owner Quebec City's in Canada so Bettman's like never so there's only one place they can go now and that's where the

the basketball team the Suns play out of Matt what's the owner and that's where the basketball team, the Suns, play at. Phoenix. So, yeah, is it Matt Ishabika? What's the ownership of the Suns? Ishbia. The one that was fighting with Nikola Jokic. Yeah. You got to go there.

Go play in the Suns building. Just be the second tenant. Because it was Donald Sterling before who was like, who didn't want the Coyotes, but it's possible this guy might. I mean, if the Sens are worth a billion, what's a team in a major city like phoenix worth i don't know well listen uh there's no doubt that xavier ceo guy he's watching what's going on in ottawa just put them up for sale and then i've had like 19 owners haven't they put them up for sale and someone move them then?

Yes. Let someone else handle that? That's right. Yeah, the most likely thing seems like Salt Lake City from what I've read today. That guy only spent like maybe $150 million at the most. What do you mean? On what? On the coyotes.

Oh, that's what Gutierrez man. Yeah. And then picked up probably a couple hundred million in debt. Based on what the Ottawa Senators appear to be sold for, I'm sure he could put a quick $300 million in his pocket after his debt's paid for. Yeah, run along. Right?

Like, why wouldn't you sell it now? Right. And let somebody else move it, or the league find a suitable arrangement somewhere else. Just to clarify, Robert Sarver was the Suns owner, not Donald Sterling. Both wonderful men, of course. Yeah, neither of them great dudes.

Okay, let's go to Gary Gally, former NHL or color analyst, does a terrific job throughout these playoffs on Sportsnet Hockey Night in Canada. Gary, thanks for joining us, man. How are you? I'm doing great. How are you guys? We're good. You know, we're just solving nothing here.

Playoff tested. Yeah, that's not us. We're soft as baby doo-doo. I don't get a kick out of when someone says to you, hey, you look like you can still play. I'm like, yeah, I don't think so. Yeah. Play what?

Listen, we're going to get your thoughts and ideas moving forward in the conference final. But before that, just your overall assessment of not just Toronto, but our last two Canadian hopefuls in Toronto and Edmonton. And just your feeling on the fact that many people thought that that was a legit Stanley Cup final, maybe on the horizon, and it never came to fruition. Well, I think it was.

I mean, I think you could honestly argue once Boston got out of the equation and Colorado was out of the equation, I think a lot of people looked at, you know, they could get to the conference finals, but they're going to hit Boston or they're going to hit, you know, Colorado or Vegas, and that's going to be tough, right? But when they disappeared, I think everybody was like, this could really happen. This is something that could happen.

And maybe, you know, all the stars were aligning and the planets were aligning that this was going to be an exciting year for Canadian fans to watch some Canadian teams, at least one of them, make it to the final. And unfortunately, kind of the same old, same old just kind of happened, right? I mean, you know, Edmonton obviously feels like they took a bit of a step back, but, you know, I believe, you know, Vegas is a very, very, very good hockey team and, you know, could be, you know, the team that might be the team to beat in all of this.

So certainly no shame in losing and, you know, you know, dry silent gets cold at the wrong time. Their goaltending is still an issue. Defense gives up a little too much, even though at home, you know, covers a lot is still an issue. Defense gives up a little too much. Even though Eckholm, you know, covers a lot of ground, they're still giving up a little too much in certain areas in the playoffs. I think Eckholm said it right when he said, you know, you've got to be ready to win 1-0 in 2-1 games.

You can't be trying to score four or five goals and win in the playoffs. It's really hard to do that and win a Stanley Cup. You know, and then for Toronto you know they they slay the dragon they they get rid of the you know they dust off the you know all the all the naysayers and and they get to the second round and then and then it just doesn't seem like they play with enough desperation uh to beat a team that is trending and that has been battling for a long time for survival and now is starting to catch wind in their sails and you know I don't think it was a lack of respect of opponent because I can't think anyone would think to have lack of respect of

anybody in the Stanley Cup playoffs I do believe that they didn't play with the desperation that you saw in game four and they needed to play with the desperation that you saw in game four. And they needed to play all the games like they played in game four and parts of game five to have a chance to win that series. And they just weren't up to it. So what now for this Toronto Maple Leafs team? You know, it's curious. They got a GM in limbo, which, you know,

partially of their own doing for not signing him earlier, I guess. But at this point, you know, what next for them? Do you think they need to make over, you know, some sort of drastic overhaul or is being this close a silly time to blow it all up? Oh, I think that the great part about being a fan and someone who watches the team is blow it all up. You know, you're emotional. You know, you just want to see change. You feel like this is the same old, same old. But if you're in the management part of things, you know you're you're you're emotional you know you're you just want to see change you feel like this is the same old same old but if you're in the management part of things

you know it's different you can't really listen to all the noise and even though it's hard not to hear it you have to make rational decisions based upon what you think is best for the team moving forward uh knee-jerk reactions never help anybody uh you know oftentimes they get you in more trouble than not. So I think you have to, you know, you have to have a plan in place. And for the people above Kyle Dubas and those people that are going to make those decisions, you know, look at Kyle Dubas is not going to be on the shelf for very long, if for a couple of days.

I think there are teams that are waiting to see what's going to happen with Toronto. I think Sheldon Keefe and Kyle Dubas will find jobs very quickly. And so I don't think that's the issue. It's more or less, you know, he doesn't have a contract. How bad does he want to stay? And does he really want to stay and continue to try to do this and, you know, and try to finish something he started?

Or does he just feel like, you know, this isn't going to work out. And he looks at some of the deals that are done and some of the things that he was a part of and knows that, you know, there, you know, the clock is ticking on some things that aren't, aren't in their favor. And so, you know, maybe, maybe he moves on, who knows. Right. But time will tell and people will, will, will, will shift positions, but I can't believe you can stay status quo. I just cannot believe that that would be something, you know,

both teams were talking about goaltending was an issue for most of the year. You know, and every time they thought they were getting somebody that was grabbing a hold of it, it just didn't happen. And so Matt Murray, that was a disaster. So it's just you got to get that part of your team solidified. And if you don't, I think you can have a lot of other things done and still fall to what happened. We're talking to Gary Gally, Sportsnet Hockey Night in Canada analyst,

former National Hockey League defenseman. Gary, Kyle left it open that he needed to do some soul searching with his family before moving forward. That was Monday, 48 hours later. Here we are. How much time is enough time? How much time passes where you question where he is physically, mentally, emotionally for moving forward?

And how fast does Brendan Shanahan or MLSC have to say, okay, time to move on? Well, I think they're going to give him a little bit of time for sure because, you know, this isn't a decision you could make. You know, you look at some of the people in the past little while that have, you know, like Paul Maurice deciding to leave, you know, when he was, when he was there and could have stayed in Winnipeg, decided to leave and look where he is at this point. You know, I think Kyle Dubas is, you know, if he just does it,

if he just does it really quickly, then people are going to wonder if he was ever committed all the way. Anyway, if he gives it more time, I think the favorable thing is people will look at it like, well, that's a real tough decision he's making. I'm saying, I'm not saying he's made and i'm saying i'm not saying he's made a decision but i'm not saying he's not he may have made his decision already and this is just time going by to to make it look like he's giving it some some extra thought who knows right i don't know kyle dubas personally so

i don't know where he's at but certainly uh some of the stuff that's done they're going to be restricted in some areas he's going to have to make a decision on those top three guys as to which ones, if they are going to decide to make moves, which ones they're moving out. And he's still got a lot of holes to fill going back the other way and contracts to be done with not a lot of money. So, yeah, you know, there's just a lot of things that he took leaps of faith on that are, you know, are still question marks. So, you know, it's going to be interesting to see what he does,

but I would say it's 50, 50. I don't, I don't believe that he's leaning any more to stay than he is to go. Cause he knows if he leaves, he's going to get another deal. You know, although I think any team would look at some of the deals he's done in Toronto and they're going to evaluate those deals too and say, you know, is he leaving the Toronto Maple Leafs uh with the cupboard half full or half empty you know that's that's what you know did he do more good did he do bad you know those are all things other people in the industry will have to evaluate well soon enough here we're going to get the uh the conference

finals underway and the Leafs will be looking at pretty much all four of the teams and going, I don't know, we'd had a chance against them. How do you handicap the final four teams here? Carolina's the current betting favorite. Who do you feel is the leg up here heading into the final two rounds? You know, it's been a crazy playoff. It really has been, and goaltenders are being pulled. I've never seen so many goalies pulled in a series and in a playoff it really has been and it's nice and and goaltenders are being pulled I've never seen so many goalies pulled in a series and in a playoff year I mean it's been just utter craziness I started with the you know I did the first two games of Dallas Seattle and after the first round

was done I had a really good chance to see Vegas against Winnipeg. And it wasn't even close, really. Vegas is that good. All that had to be answered was, could Mark Stone come back? And could he get to a level where he could, you know, cover the tracks that they're going to need him to cover and be the leader he needs to be and be healthy through the playoffs and whatever? And I think he's answered that question um by getting mark stone back you get a one-two punch of him and chandler stevenson who have absolutely played fantastic together so he elevates chandler stevenson immediately you know they they're the issue

has always been with they got great four lines. They've got physicality. They can throw 100 hits at Winnipeg. They can play a 25-hit up-and-down game. They've got four solid lines. Their defense box out and shelter and insulate their goaltender as good as any decor that's left in this thing, maybe the best. The only question mark was could Laurent Bressois be the guy? And the answer was, you know, he was trying to be the guy.

The injury takes him out of it. I still wasn't sold that he was the guy, but now Aiden Hill's in there, seems to be doing a really good job. Could he be the guy? That, to me, is the only question. But they insulate him so well that I don't think it's going to be an issue. I think they can do this without having him being spectacular. Then you go to Dallas.

You arguably could say, you know, because Bobrovsky has been such a question mark, that Ottinger might have been the best goalie of what's left. Yeah. In the final eight, and now he's in the final four. You know, but Bobrovsky's kind of come out of nowhere. So that's been an interesting story. But you've got Ottinger, you've got a stud defenseman in Heiskanen you've got you've got four depth

lines that DeBoer runs uh it's a well-coached team um they're you know a lot they could you know I think that this is going to be a real good Dallas Vegas series uh if I was to just pick one out of the top I'd'd say probably Vegas will take this. And on the other side, I think Florida is going to be a very difficult out for Carolina to make. You know, I do think that they may get one guy back from injury, but the other guys are not coming back. And I've always felt like those are empty holes offensively, scoring goals, doing things that you need in order to maybe get through. But, you know, they continue to prove me wrong.

You know, Brent Burns looks like a revitalized kid out there. He's just flying around. I've always been a huge fan of Slavin. I think he is so, he's not under the radar, but I consider him to be underrated. He is a stud defenseman that just is efficient. Efficient in every way. And love watching him.

So they've got some good pieces, but up front in the forward, they've got some holes there. They play a good systematic game. They believe in their system. They've got a good captain there. He plays on the defensive side of the game most often. He's able to shut people down. I mean, they've got some hard-n good captain there. He plays on the defensive side of the game most often. He's able to shut people down. I mean, they've got some hard-nosed guys there.

So they've got a very good team. I believe that, you know, it could fall four ways. Any one of these four teams, it wouldn't shock me. Although I would pick, if I'm going, I would say obviously I would pick Vegas as one. I think Vegas is the favorite in my mind. And after that, you know, if Dallas was to knock out Vegas, I probably would go with Dallas and then Carolina and then Florida. Gary, what do you make of Jack Eichel?

Arguably, not even arguably, I think it's unanimous, the most gifted, natural, talented player left out of the Final Four, yet it took him seven years to play in his first playoff game. And where is he now for you in his contributions to Vegas? You're leaving out Joe Pavelski? He's crazy. Anyway, yeah, I get,

I get what you're saying. Yeah. You know, Jack is certainly the number two pick after McDavid. You know, he has had to absorb, you know, how many punches.

I mean, when you're the number two guy and, you know, and, and, and you have to live in that spot and you keep trying to be up to the level of Connor McDavid, but you're never going to get there, but you just don't want to live in that spot. You keep trying to be up to the level of Connor McDavid, but you're never going to get there.

But you just don't want to take all the blows. He's taken a number of blows. The injury thing, there's been so many things that have happened around him. It's kind of nice to see him in a position where he trusts his coach, he trusts his teammates, and he's playing for his teammates, not for himself any longer. And I think that is a huge factor. Bruce Cassidy talked about cutting his minutes down and making his minutes more 200-footish.

So, in other words, you know, hey, I'm going to knock 90 seconds off your play time, but I want it to shore up in these areas and make them that much better. And he's bought into that. And then eventually, once he bought into that and things got going, some of that ice time came back. And, you know, I think that this is a team where he may be the star-studded guy, but this is a team that's got a lot of big fish on it that have purpose

and that really mean a lot to the success of that team. You know, you can't negate William Carlson, what he means to the Knights. He means a ton. Chandler Stephenson, I've already talked about. Mark Stone, the emotion and leadership, hard on his sleeve. And then you've got guys like Collisar and Carrier and Howden, these big guys that play hard and go and push the pace of the game

and make life miserable for your opponent, you know, and then this big defense core that you look at them, they're all towers out there, and they're all mobile, and they all are in the structure deal. So, yeah, I mean, Jack Eichel says, hey, I fit in with this team. I'm one of the guys. I have to do my job, do my role. And in doing such, because this team is so deep,

you can't just, you know, saddle up on one line. You've got to watch more than one. And I think he's the benefit of that. Like Rod Brindamore was the benefit of playing in Philly with Eric Lindros. I mean, you know, you can only put so many eggs in a basket and then there's other guys can make hay. And I think if, you know, Eichel's one of those guys, if he can take a lot of that, they have guys who can do damage and that's that's him doing

his job you know forcing the other team to feel like they have to put players on him and and and defense him and it opens it up for other people to do damage and they can't gary this is a subjective conversation of sorts but you know of the guys left standing who do you think would be really cool to see you win their first cup joe pavelski still not on it ben and sagan are there brent burns uh march or so in vegas has been kicking around mark stall is there anyone that comes to mind for you any of those guys that would be you mean more you think to those guys than anyone else well the one guy i wanted to see win it that unfortunately was Rick Bonas, who's been around forever.

He's one guy that I, over the years, I just want to see him snap a cup over his head. I think I would be a blubbering fool watching that. You know, and so, but yeah, I would think Joe Pavelski to me, a guy that's meant a lot to the National Hockey League, he's been a great ambassador. Ben is another guy who's put in a lot of good years in the Dallas market,

a lot of good years in the community. He's been a good leader, you know, a guy that's really, you know, I think those are two guys if Dallas was to win, that would be awesome. You know, Brent Burns has been around a long time. You know, he's been close a few times. So it's really hard to pick one guy. But if you were just going to pick one, I'd say probably Pavelski would be the guy that I would pick.

Okay, here's one for you. Four coaches. One of them is going to be lifting the Stanley Cup over his head for the first time as a head coach. And there's some great storylines here. Peter DeBoer, I think two Stanley Cup finals, never won. Paul Maurice had one with Carolina. They lost to Detroit, if I'm not mistaken.

Brendan Moore has done it as a captain, but not as a coach. And Cassidy, one of them, one of them's doing it. Big names. As a head coach. What do you think, Gally? I got Bruce Cassidy. Bruce Cassidy for you? You know why?

Because he had so many good years in Boston. That team was the record in what he did there. And then they let him go. And what did he do? He went to Vegas and he put up, I mean, he's only, I think, the first coach to put up 50 win seasons back-to-back years with two different teams. He has been really good at his craft.

I think that, you know, and the fact that I've known Bruce since we were kids, you know, I will sell myself out on that. I would love to see Bruce raise that over his head. This is a guy who was an extremely talented hockey player mean really oh my gosh he was bobby or for the ottawa 67s insane and then he had that you know i think that freak ball hockey accident where he uh you know hurt his knee and then the knee started giving him issues and i think really unfortunately uh dismantled which would have been a fabulous career uh and uh and Then he found his love for the game and coaching and getting involved and whatever.

It is a really good story. I love the way he deals with the media, similar to Rod Brindamore and Paul Maurice. They deal with the media so well. You talk to them. They don't just give you the rhetorically crap that coaches want to give you when they don't want to tell you nothing. They

honestly own up to stuff. They say things and they do critique what their opponent's doing and tell you what they're doing it gives you insight on the game and how they think and they know that this is everybody knows this stuff it's not rocket science we're not we're not cloaking daggering here so i i really like that i mean rod's won a cup um to lift one over his head and be the coach to win one on a team, that would be kind of interesting, special, too. DeBoer, who's won seven Game 7s, holy Jesus, did he have to do much more to get himself a cup? He's been around a long time with a lot of teams.

It would be hard to deny anyone, but I would go with Bruce Cassidy just because of my closeness to Bruce and what he's done and feel deserving having to start over from a really good team in Boston and then go to Vegas and take pick up where he left off and uh just done a remarkable job there awesome storylines uh gals thanks for doing this man hey my pleasure and i'm glad you guys had a couple of nights off you probably uh were whining and dining your significant other trying to catch up as i've been doing the same. And enjoy the rest of the way guys.

We'll, we'll talk to you soon. You bet. Thanks for joining us. Gary Galley, former NHL or, and doing a terrific job as a color commentator. How about you off the top of the head coaches?

I love that question. I love that question. I feel like Brindamore has a cup and I know it's not as a coach but i would love to see deborah or maurice see that's i'm i'm right there with you and listen they're they're my guys i that's my era that's the guys that i i played i played against these guys frankly they're all good stories cassidy too i like them all as stories but fire change teams i have no doubt in my mind it's going to be a paul maurice uh deborah final do you yeah oh that's going to be unbelievable that's actually the best storyline more than the players and i'm torn because i know these guys well and they're good guys they're great coaches look at paul maurice's career what is he third or fourth in all-time

wins all-time uh games or coaching uh i'm not sure about wins he's probably up there with wins yeah or coached like and and now he got he has a legitimate shot again yeah it's um you know carolina feels so different than you know for a number of reasons but like you look at those other coaches been fired switch teams trying getting close whatever and brindamore's just been the dude how about deborah right now staring vegas you kicked me to the curb love it it's coach carousel uh you guys want some pics sure all right it's time for playoff picks presented by bet365 visit the app for the latest odds and since there hasn't been any hockey played in six weeks it's

a little bit harder to figure out these these odds but you can bet on the exact outcome of the of the final so you can bet who makes it who. I'm just looking at it here. Gary was alluding to it. This is so wide open with these four teams. I think Vegas, the more he was talking about it to me, just the names he's rhyming off there. I think their goaltending is the one thing that would scare you, but the way he was talking about them, they felt like a favorite to me.

But, like, you can bet that the Florida Pan florida panthers were gonna beat the dallas stars in the final if that was to happen who would be shocked by that no one yeah i mean anything can happen yeah at this point and it's that's an eight to one outcome and that's a very like normal outcome from these last four teams so just keep an eye on that kind of thing when you're heading into the final. There's a little bit of value on Florida in general for everything because they're not the favorite. They're the underdog. Again, they get to be the underdog, but I really do feel like there's value with Florida.

You have to get a lot right there, right? You got to get both conference finals right and then the final right. So similar to that, I bet on the Conn Smythe winner. Here's a little dark horse bet my bet was uh jacob slavin from carolina because carolina to me maybe the front runner of the four and if you look at their team like freddie anderson i think he's gonna be a 905 or something or you know he doesn't you're not stealing them playoff series so far they don't have like a huge

goal scoriajo has been good but there's this narrative that'll build around the shutdown guy. No one can score on Slaven Norris type. You know, he's Rod Langway. Let's get the momentum going for Jacob Slaven. Hello, you're starting to juice my own. Yeah, that's all you're saying. And the last two things I have today for playoff picks. If you like Dallas in that series um I think

Vegas to win game one and then lose the series it's there in Vegas you know you could come out hot on home ice Dallas very capable to win that series even if they lose game one that's plus 550 and on the other side you know Florida's been pesky the whole playoffs winning a lot of road games Florida to win game one and then lose a series is plus 425 so both of those to me that one both of those to me are somewhat interesting as kind of long shot value plays so that was everything for this because there's no hockey being played but tomorrow the hockey starts so that was playoff picks presented by bet365 visit the app for the latest odds yeah you got Max Domi on the consummate list.

Don't, but he's second in scoring on the Dallas Stars. It's pretty good. And Dubas didn't want him. All right. Ruppe Hintz has 19 points and nine goals in 11 games. Yeah, he'd have to wrestle it for me. Ruppe. Ruppe.

He's one of my favorite players in the league. I love Ruppe Hintz. Been calling him Ruppe for years. He's unbelievable. But yesterday, Razor called him Ruppe, favorite players in the league. I love Rupe Hintz. Been calling him Rupe for years. He's unbelievable. But yesterday Razor called him Rupe and he calls the games. It's been Rupe, Rupe and then he dropped Rupe. Maybe he just. All right.

Let's go to Frank. All right. No one cares. You get on a phone call during the break and get that straight for us. Yeah. On it. Mrs. Hintz. Okay.

We're going to take a quick break. I don't know who we have coming up. You don't know who we have. I lost my shit. Frank Zervelli. Oh, Frank Zervelli. We're going to get all the inside dirt from one of the best insiders. Frank, after the break, you're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. more Leafs more Raptors more Blue Jays the fan morning show with Ailish Forfar and Justin

Cuthbert subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts this is real kipper and born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. All right. You know, I'm kind of tired this week when I'm like strolling through my phone and you see all these like fake Twitter announcements for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah. They're just. And I'm like, double take them. Sammy, do we have news?

No, it's fake, Kipper. Oh, phew. Okay. Well, let's bring in a guy who doesn't give us fake news. Just the goods. Frank Cervelli. Frank, what's going on? Not too much.

I share in your pain. I don't know if it's been more difficult with the loss of the blue check marks on Twitter, but also like just getting... Kipper, you know what this is like? Getting random texts from people and they're like, hey, did this happen? And you're like, wait, what does this person know that I don't? How many hours do you spend weekly researching stuff that's BS?

It kills you. Yeah, I'd say it's my daily fishing expedition where you're just calling and texting people, asking about stuff that they're like, yeah, that's not accurate. Okay, good, just so I know. Okay, so give us the goods on what is accurate. A real curve ball, as we stated at the beginning of the show,

by Kyle Dubas. What are you hearing in terms of where this situation lies between him brennan shanahan mlsc and where the possibilities in terms of where it can go frank it's a really good question and i think the funny thing is everyone's looking for answers, myself included, you guys. And the funny part is that as much as I can gather, the actual principles involved in these talks and where this is heading don't actually know the answer either. Everyone's kind of curious what the end game is here, what exactly Kyle Dubas and his family are thinking. And really, like the possibilities, I think, are kind of more or less cut and dry in the sense that, you know, we know from Kyle Dubas speaking on Monday that he says he's not going to work anywhere else. So that clears off the one angle and ends a lot of speculation.

And the other is that I believe the Toronto Maple Leafs want him back and had made overtures to him over the weekend so that when he went into Monday's press conference, it wasn't like he was sitting there saying, well, do they want me or not? Am I going to get, you know, let go or not? The answer to that is, is no, he he's not and they'd like to have him back but what does he want and what does his family want those are two critical questions does seem you know you you wonder if it's frustration over the way that it played out during the season not being extended and just kind of being left hanging um you know, putting his family in a bad position

and leaving us some sour grapes. So let's say he does come back, Frank, because that seems to be like the 51% likelihood, I would say, if we had to do a 50-50 here. What do you think about the likelihood of the coach returning or a core player, you know, all the core players coming back? It feels like something has to change something will change um i i personally if if we're operating under the assumption that kyle dubas is coming back like you said um i have a hard time believing that sheldon keith won't be

the coach and i think you could hear that reading between the lines of his press conference because he sort of gave the full-throated uh you know support and and voice toward sheldon keith and playoff adjustments and you know his regular season success and track record is unquestioned but you know i i think any neutral observer would would say to you that um he was outcoached in part of round two. And that part was abundantly clear. With regards to the players, and I'm going to call them the core three, because with all due respect to John Tavares' salary,

I don't believe that's a movable piece and movable asset. Everyone has kind of, you know, everyone has kind of, I think prematurely circled William Nylander as the guy that's the odd man out. And I, I just, I don't think that's the case. Like I obviously I could be wrong, but when you look at the one guy on this Leafs team that a lot of the big moments in the playoffs seem to run through his stick he he's the one guy on this Leafs team that a lot of the big moments in the playoffs seem to run through his stick.

He's the one guy that I look at in that group and on that team that I don't question his fire and his intensity. Like it burns. Not to say Austin Matthews and Mitch Marner don't care. That's not what I'm saying at all. It's just that I do have questions because there were games and moments that they just weren't there

and haven't been there over not just this playoff run, but a number of the ones in the past that just leaves a lot to be desired to think that you could then march this same group back again and expect different results. So what is left here? Our barometer here is our Sammy, and he's like, if I see the same group come back, I'm going to snap.

Like, so is there a chance that Kyle signs an extension and says, then, yeah, Sheldon's my guy. And I still believe in this core group. Could that possibly happen going into September? It sounds crazy to say, because I think we're all looking at it knowing that some change is inevitable, almost even for the sake of change. But I think that that's what they worked themselves

into last year is going through all the different processes of okay let's say we move this guy when you're trading players of that caliber which i'm not saying from a leaf's um you know lens but just from a league-wide lens of impact, it's really hard to win the deal. And maybe that shouldn't necessarily be the goal because I don't think anyone is necessarily looking at, and I'll use the example because this is the one that Kyle Dubas used in his press conference, but going back to the Matthew Kachuk trade last year from Calgary to Florida,

like the Panthers went into that knowing that this year was going to hurt and to think that they they believed that they would be losing their way into the playoffs in the last week of the regular season that's far-fetched like they were thinking they would be a seven or eight seed and still be a playoff team and certainly weren't expecting to be playing in the conference final this year the point being they were willing to take a step back and say you know what so much of success in the playoffs is random you never really know what's going to happen until you get there but let's set up an overarching plan of here's what the next five years look like and the panthers said we want to get our hands on one of the top 15 or 20 franchise

players in the world and you know we have to make decisions with huberto and wieger anyway at some point in the next calendar year just as the leafs have to make decisions now with their guys that are heading into the final years of their contracts that even if we take a step back now or what appears to be a slight step back, we're okay with that. And then kind of the hilarious thing is they do that, and now here they are in the conference final. So you really never know,

but to think that there's an overarching plan of here's where we're heading next, I think that's the big question. All right. Well, good to move on from the Leafs, Kip? Okay. It's Arizonazona coyotes time frank is the most thrilling part of any radio program but like you know what's going on here this team is can't get a deal done in tempe they're not going to have a new rink they probably need to move there's nowhere to move to what's the the state of affairs of the Coyotes? Well, I don't think there's nowhere to move to.

Like, that's crazy talk. There's nowhere to move in Arizona. That's the truth. And I don't accept for one second, even though we've seen the reports and the email from Bill Daly to ESPN today saying that the Coyotes are going to be playing in Mullet Arena again next season. I think that's a huge mistake. You know, just if you want proof, go look at the Oakland A's and their attendance this year. When a marketplace, let alone one as fair weather as Arizona is,

in general as a sports market, to then march team back in a in a small building a collegiate arena that is is nice for that standard but doesn't come close to the nhl and the coyotes have been a revenue suck on the rest of the league for a while to think that you're gonna then bring back this team in a lame duck season when everyone knows that they need to move like this vote has been on the books since last November I don't think that the NHL hasn't been working on contingencies because Gary Bettman and his team are incredibly smart but to think that they're now in this position where they're essentially caught with their pants down from a no vote it doesn't look good on anyone and the fact that they're not ready to roll with a plan b is a little bit surprising um to think that you

can't park this team even if it's for one year on a temporary basis in houston in a 16 17 18 000 seat arena or kansas city or somewhere else and not generate more revenue than the minuscule amount that they're doing in Arizona this year. Like, I don't know why you wouldn't consider doing something like that, shaking it up a bit and, and moving on because the people have told you now twice that they don't care in Arizona quite literally in a vote last night and then getting unceremoniously kicked out of their arena in Glendale where the arena said, we can make more money not having

you in our building for 45 nights a year. Can't they just go and become a tenant at the Phoenix Suns arena with that basketball group? So my understanding is they just went through a renovation at that arena yeah and it's not quite hockey ready or it's not hockey ready and we've

already done that like kipper i did you were you around when when the coyotes played there like it it didn't fit then it was a square peg in a round hole a a Brooklyn-type arena setup at America West Arena, was what it was called then, with the end zone hanging over one end of the ice. Yep. So then who's the frontrunner? Because, you know, like I see Salt Lake City also has a rink where you'd have to collapse the bleachers in one end. Like, it doesn't feel like there's an obvious go-to, Frank. Well, I think there's an obvious go-to frank well the there's i think there's two um one is houston

where i think the hang-up there both of the hang-ups are not on the building front but on the ownership front uh tillman for titta is the guy that owns the uh houston rockets he apparently is it was not ready and or willing to pony up to pay what the NHL was looking for at that juncture or moment in time. But the Toyota center where the Rockets play is fully NHL ready, like no issues whatsoever. And two is in Kansas city where that's that arena there. It's called T-Mobile arena or T-Mobile center.

That's been around for a while. It's owned by the Kings owners and Anschutz Entertainment Group. And it's like, it's ready to go. The only thing is they didn't, when they went through the last expansion process and would have considered Kansas City, not one person or group stepped up to be part of the bidding process because there was just no one ready

to do so so that might be another thing that gets in the way it does feel like with the ottawa stuff to go down the way it is like wouldn't anyone just want a team somewhere these are these are premium properties you would think i mean at the end of the day, even with the baggage that comes with this team, moving it somewhere else, that's been unable to get out of its own way that you can do better especially with the recent success we've seen starting from scratch in seattle and vegas we're talking to frank cerebelli who does a terrific job on the hockey inside part with hockey content daily face-off uh frank uh an introduction of sorts for uh nhl player association executive director new executive director and marty walsh he met with agents last week i think in la and new york and if i'm not mistaken today in toronto that is correct today in toronto was the third and final stop on the

north american agent tour for marty walsh to meet with everyone and um and just kind of give a general and vague uh introduction to himself and sort of what his thought process is now running the nhlpa uh i did report earlier today ron hainsey, who was a critical part of the hiring process to get to Marty Walsh, has now been since promoted to assistant of the Arizona Coyotes, which, by the way, in parentheses, the union should have a huge say on. Because who's to say that these players have to go back and play at Mullet Arena next year if the Players Association actually would raise a stink and raise a finger for once? But I'll leave that as a closed parentheses for another chat, is to figure out the salary cap for next season. It's a negotiation. Gary Bettman has made that clear.

What will it cost the players? Because we know that nothing is for free. And how quickly can you get that done? Because I talked to three general managers this morning who were all asking the same question. Do you know what the cap's going to be next year? We're projecting multiple different scenarios. We'd like to start moving contracts and talking to people,

but, man, I don't really want to clear contracts off my books and pay to have to do so if the cap is actually going up by a somewhat sizable margin. They could not sell out a Montreal Canadian game there. They had like 2,000 empty seats at Mullet Arena. It's dreadful. So why would the players want to keep playing there? Why would the players want to keep – they want to play in NHL digs

with a real NHL facility to actually feel like you're playing in the National Hockey League you would think at some point someone would have the courage to say this doesn't work for us well we are fascinated to see uh where that goes here how good does Connor Bedard feel right now? Oh, Chicago, thank God. Waking up a Chicago Blackhawk today. Well, more to the point, how bad or sad is the player that gets picked by the two players that get picked by the Arizona Coyotes in the first 15 picks about, hey, whenever I go to sign my NHL contract, whenever that is, where's the team going to be located

and who's going to be running it? Good questions indeed. Okay, Frank, we're going to let you go, but I really appreciate the feedback today, pal. Have a good one, guys. Thanks, Frank. Hockey Insider, president of hockey content on Daily Faceoff,

Frank Cervelli. You wonder if like 20 years ago or whatever, 10 years ago, the Coyotes were somewhere else, what the cap would look like if they were in like a city where people attended and made money different um with frank that uh there's just no way that gary bettman commissioner of the nhl would just uh look at that vote and go yeah yeah, we're going to get it. And I have no plan B. That guy's got something up his sleeve for sure. You know, there's actually a funny tweet from the Salt Lake City guy.

I think his name's Ryan Smith. He owns the Utah Jazz. Or someone tweeted him in late April and was like, you're watching the NHL playoffs. You've got to bring this to Salt Lake City. And he responded in motion to the person. Huh. Huh. Hmm.

I don't know if it's a dilemma, a good dilemma or a bad one, but if the Ottawa sat in her cell for as much as everybody talks about, and then that has that ripple effect on Arizona, and Arizona's CEO goes, I've had enough. I want to, I want to cash it all in. Where are the buyers in the U S to say,

okay, is that now that franchise is worth 700 million now, 800 million, 900 million. Oh, the coyotes. Sure. Well,

if you assume it could be in another city, it would be right. Like, I guess, but is there an appetite for people spending almost a billion dollars on an nhl team right now in the u.s i mean i don't know judging by you asking the question i guess there's some skepticism there you know like to me it's like this is huge quebec city has a building if I want to own an NHL team, I'm not no offense to Ottawa,

but like it's, it's Ottawa, you know, like it's Kansas city. Any different? Yeah, it is. It is.

This is Canada. This is a TSN money regionally for them is huge. It's, it's probably, and this is a misunderstanding on my part. Maybe there is a fundamental difference. There is a fundamental difference. An NHL team in Canada is big.

Now, I'm not saying that I understand whether or not it's big enough to maybe go to Quebec City, but there's a real strong sense that there is nothing wrong with an NHL team in Ottawa and where that team's going with the young players and the potential for some deep playoff runs that can be very successful. And I wonder if you can sell Arizona similarly in that you're going to have a zillion picks

and taught draft picks, you know, you look at our top prospects. You look like this coyotes team will be loaded shortly after you move, you know, in three, four years from now, there's gonna be a lot of nice hockey players on that team that has to have

value to me. If I'm looking to buy a team, not sure how many rich people know about prospects on the coyotes, but all right, we're going to take a quick break then we got david amber host of rogers monday night hockey on sports net we'll get his thoughts on the toronto maple leafs he covers them regionally for sports net did a terrific job so he's uh he's emotionally invested in uh in what's moving forward for the Toronto Maple Leafs. We'll get his thoughts. Plus, the rest of the conference final gearing up.

David Amber after the break. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, back after these words. Covering the Blue Jays from an analytical perspective. Jays Talk Plus with Blake Murphy. Be sure to subscribe and download Jays from an analytical perspective. Jays Talk Plus with Blake Murphy. Be sure to subscribe and download Jays Talk on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van.

Always love talking to our next guest david amber remember uh just working many nights with david and just the raw emotion he had for canadian teams to succeed truly so he can feel better about holding his own job i don't know if that's that why i don't know i will say the the passion leaves no canadian team exempt he loves them all he's there have you ever watched a game with me kipper uh i don't think i don't think i have either i've only just uh shared your thoughts in our group chat it's a lot of you see me standing it's a lot of that it's me standing there and yelling the whole game he had a bad back in playoffs that is now better because he's been hasn't been standing up three hours a night yeah there's not a chance that you could just sit on a couch and watch a game. Well, for the first 10 minutes. But as soon as a goal goes in or there's any intensity, I'm staying in, baby.

You're the oldest young guy on earth. We have DA. All right, DA. Host of Rogers Monday Night Hockey on Sportsnet. How are you? Listen, last weekend was tough for you watching the last two Canadian teams. I just want to...

I don't even need you. Wellness check. We don't even need you to say anything right now. I'm just calling to see if you're okay. I can see the smile on your face from here. No, not a smile. There is nobody out there that bleeds more for Canadian teams

to do well than you, my friend. Yeah, I'll be honest. I went through the seven stages of grieving, and it's not easy. It's not easy. Like, you know, the shock was the first one, and then you get into a bit of denial, and then it's like that negotiation. Just let them win a game. You know, claw their way back into the series. And then, of course, after the least one and then you get into a bit of denial and then it's like that negotiation. Just let them win a game. They'll claw their way back

into the series. And then, of course, after the least one game four, you go back three stages because I was kind of at acceptance. When it was 3-0, I was ready to say, okay, well, it's done. And then they get to 3-1 and I sort of said, okay, well, now I'm back to denial, I guess. But I

was tough. Did this one hurt more because I can never recall in 20-plus years the feeling like not only could we see one Canadian team, it's legit, we could see a Toronto-Edmonton final. So many picked it. Yeah. You know what?

They were the odds-on favorite, you know, if you believe in Vegas and the guys making the odds. I mean, it looked aligned like there was a possibility. Nothing's a sure thing. I mean, it's the salary cap era, right? I mean, I heard you guys all with Gary Gowley last hour, and if any of these four teams win the Stanley Cup, at this point, is anyone going to be

surprised and and when we entered the playoffs i said to myself yeah there's a legit 10 teams that could win the cup and and we'll see what happens so you have to remember that sort of the situation i when i when i say it was upsetting it's not that it's upsetting to me personally as a fan it's just like i think it'd be a very cool storyline it's just like, I think it'd be a very cool storyline. It's been 30 years. I think it'd be really fun for our viewership, obviously, you know, from a professional standpoint, nothing could be better than Edmonton Toronto final. You'd have, you know, 10 plus million people watching more than that even. And,

and it'd be pretty cool to have the whole McDavid Matthews and that whole narrative play out on a lot of levels. It could have been really special, but I'm not, you, but I'm not shocked. When you look at the teams and you're watching the games, you really see how close and even these teams are. So, DA, do you think there's a reason why it's been 30 years? Like right now, I saw people tweeting, three of the four teams in the conference finals are no state tax teams.

Oh, I never thought of that yeah or you know the pressure of canada or do you think it's just random luck which also is a viable answer you know i've thought about this a lot i know and i i think there's a lot of contributing factors i don't think we should minimize some of those things you just mentioned. I mean, you know, you're going to, like, do it on paper, right? Stamkos, Kucherov, Vasilevsky, Hedman costing less than the core four on the Leafs by a few million dollars. Like, that's a big difference. And then you know what those few million dollars get you?

They get you Yanni Gord. They get you Palat. They get you Kalorn. They get you they get you yanni gourd they get you palat they get you calorn they get you those other guys so there's there are there are legitimate you know reasons why i'm sure it's like it's kind of funny we have four teams the most northern team in the stanley cup final this year is las vegas think about that for one second the most northern team the hockey hotbed of las vegas so there might be something to that um You know, there's happenstance. There's, you know, decisions are made.

And certainly there's going to be some players who won't come to Canada. You know, I worked on Monday night with Keith Yandel. And Keith was pretty, he just said, yeah, like he's a guy who just came out of the dressing room a year ago. This is a guy who knows the pulse of current NHLers. And he's like, yeah, there's a lot of guys. I shouldn't say a lot. I don't want to misquote him. But he said there are certainly guys who won't want to play in Canada,

whether it's for pressure, whether it's for climate, whether it's for, you know, taxes, there's lots of reasons. So you are going to miss out on some players. So that's, that certainly contributes as well. And, and, you know, and there's been some management missteps along the way as well. So there's, there's all sorts of contributing factors. But you're right. The law of averages would say with seven Canadian teams in a league that's had 30 and then 31 and now 32 teams, every four years, every five years, you're going to get a Canadian team in the final.

And every four or five years, you're going to get a championship team in Canada. And it just hasn't happened now for a generation of fans. So it is a bit mind boggling. So offhand out of the four remaining teams, we have two making over $10 million. Two players. Yeah. You know, Jack Eichel. Yeah.

Bobrovsky. But I do want to step on that because I think if you back it off like a half million, like 9.5, there's seven guys. Like it's not that I've seen this whole you can't pay top guys but i don't know that that's that's just sorry to interrupt and take the question from the guest that's where i'm leaning towards on uh maybe maybe one but you can't have two you know you second is actually the highest paid player in the league this year well brian bernberg said that you know brian berk we were on set a number of times and he

he didn't say it wasn't going to work he just said we've never seen it work you know we've never seen a team with three 11 million dollar players and i took some flack for this from some people but i'm going to stand by it if there is a defense for kyle dubas and and the police management it was you know they've signed these players pre-pandemic. Right now, we should be here. The expectation was we'd be staring down a $90 million cap, and the league would be littered with guys making, littered is a strong word. There would be 30, 40, 50 guys maybe making $9, $10, $11 million.

It wouldn't be extreme. But the cap held flat for three years. It's barely gone up now in five years. And that's made an $11 million player much more like, wow, that's huge money. It's more extreme than it would have been. So I think that's part of the equation. I stand by that belief. And whether it sounds like a leaf apologist or not, I don't mind because I do believe that.

The other thing that stands out for me is that I look at Carolina and maybe we're all in agreement. I don't know. Is that the best blue line out of the final four? Well, it would be them or Vegas, in my opinion. And they're both exceptional. And that's a great point, too. When I think about the Leafs and maybe some of the issues, they have this incredible skill up front, but maybe it's redundant skill.

And I've heard you on your show so many times, both you guys and Sam as well, will beat skill sometimes. And sometimes you need some of those will guys contributing with the skill guys, and maybe you need some on the back line. And it's not like I'm not putting this on the Leafs' blue line at all, but my point being, you know, it'd be great to have four high-end players, but you also have one of that core four,

and Morgan Riley played exceptionally, but to have one of their core four guys, as we refer to them, being on the blue line, having a Tarantula, having Haskin, having a Slavin, it's not a bad thing. And I'd be the first one to admit, at times, I've talked about Tom Dundon, the owner of Carolina, having alligator arms, you know,

the ones that don't quite reach the pockets. Yeah. Yeah. And look at his blue line right now with Pesci, Slavin, Brent Burns. I don't think one of them is making over 5.5 million is that right yeah i don't have that in front of me yeah no no i'm telling you that that no i believe it yesterday you were talking about slave and possibly being a front runner for the con smith uh when this is all said and done that's right and tell your friends that's that's a guy who's i think at 5.3 or 5.4 million dollars five three for him five two eight for burns whitey shea makes five

two four five for goss despair four for pesci all of a sudden that tom dundon i'll use cars salesman type of guy looking pretty good right now guys think about think about this this is a team that also in the last, I think, five years has shed themselves of Tony D'Angelo, Dougie Hamilton, who's the pretty good young defenseman there in Calgary that they traded along with Lindholm. Hannafin? Hannafin.

Hannafin. This is a team that's gotten rid of some very good blue liners, and they still have this wealth of great guys on the on the blue line so it's there's something to that although kipper the other side of the equation is look at the final four goalies like to me if you were to say well you're going to be your final four goalies aiden hill and uh and and you know hondra i really like obviously but bobroski who was and has been man for many years here uh it's pretty shocking and freddie anderson and Anderson, we don't have to go into the whole Freddie's history in the playoffs.

It's pretty shocking that these are the final four goaltending standing this year. That's one of the big storylines to me. You know, the other one we talked about is the coaches and, you know, how cool it's going to be for one of these guys to be a first-time Stanley Cup champion, all of them with great, really unique histories as a head coach, right?

I mean, that's got to be, is there a guy there you most want to see win it? DA, we got Gally on that. I think it's a fascinating question. Yeah, I mean, listen, there's compelling storylines for all of them. I mean, three of these guys have been to the Stanley Cup final as head coaches and lost.

And to me, I think the most compelling story is Paul Maurice, simply because it was 21 years ago. It's a very young Paul Maurice. He led Carolina to the final to be, you know, overmatched by a, you know, a Detroit team with what eight or nine hall of famers. Think about where Paul Maurice was 12 months ago, 15 months ago. Coaches don't just walk away in the middle of the season. They don't.

It never happens. And he's like, I've lost my love for the game. I need to step back. I'm walking away. And sure, we've learned a little bit more about sort of maybe the dysfunctionality of the Winnipeg dressing room and maybe that contributed to it. But here he is now, a year later, on the precipice of maybe winning a Stanley Cup. Completely unexpected, right? Like, it's a great story. It's one of maybe winning a Stanley Cup, completely unexpected, right?

Like, it's a great story. It's one of those kind of goofy Hollywood-type stories, and these guys have been plugging away for 20-plus years. And if you look at his overall playoff track record, gentlemen, it's not that great. It really isn't. He had that nice run in 2002, but aside from that, it's been met with many disappointments.

And the fact that he's now here, maybe right there ready to break through, is an incredible story to me, and maybe of all the four, is the greatest story. Yeah, and also just the pressure of picking up a team that won the President's Trophy. And I know there was a space in between with... Burnett. Andrew Burnett.

But essentially, he was replacing a Hall of Famer in Joel Quenville. And also, we all know Paul on a personal level. You know, we've seen him in action. We've talked with him. He's such a great guy. They really all are. Peter DeBoer, he's very hilarious when you get some time seen him in action. We've talked with him. He's such a great guy. They really all are. Peter DeBoer, he's very hilarious when you get some time with him as well. You know, I think there's great storylines here with all the guys on a personal level.

And Rob Brindamore, I don't know how, I don't think he's ever won a Jack Adams. I don't know how that's the case. I mean, it seems egregious to me that he got overlooked yet again this year, although there were some great candidates, you know, based on what happened during the regular season. But the storylines are great on a coaching level, and I think it would be really cool for any of these four. The Paul Maurice story, just because he's such a gregarious, affable guy.

And maybe the sort of seminal moment in the Florida Panthers season was sitting at Scotiabank Arena trailing whatever it was, 2-1 in the second period, and he had that tirade where his face was turning blue and he dropped about 30 F-bombs in 12 seconds, if you remember. And maybe in some respects that was sort of a turning point for their season. It maybe saved their season. I mean, that's part of the story. You know, if Florida wins the Cup, you really could make a movie out of it, right?

Like they only made the playoffs because Pittsburgh lost to Chicago and Columbus in the last week or whatever it was. And game five, people forget about this. Game five versus Boston, Brad Marchand had a breakaway with.8 seconds left on the clock. If he scores, Boston advances. They were that close to having their season end. Bobrovsky pulls out the pad, makes the save, and here we are. and if they actually win a stanley cup to me that's going to be that should be remembered as one of the great all-time moments in the nhl because it literally saved their season

yeah all right well speaking of saving seasons we've talked a bit about the arizona coyotes today sounds like they'll be back in arizona for a I'm very confused by the whole thing. Do you have any thoughts on just this mess that is the Coyotes? Well, I'm going to be honest. I really don't understand the NHL's love of trying to make this work. And Nick, as a former player, I mean, your revenue and your salaries are based on the league revenue, and you're in this money pit that's just sucking up the league revenue in a 5,000-seat stadium, which they can't fill. It doesn't really make sense to me when I think there's other viable

markets available. And when you look at Houston, the fourth biggest market in the U.S., you know, when you look, imagine somehow they could figure out a way to get a second team in Toronto. I still say that would be the second highest grossing revenue team in the league. You know, it's funny to me that the PA doesn't try and push this. I know they don't have control. You need an owner. But, man, it just would make so much more sense to have a place where the fans have an insatiable appetite for the game and have deep pockets to afford to pay what's a pretty big ticket now

for for you know 41 home dates and obviously just arizona it's not there it just seemingly is not there so i'm not sure why there's this lust to to try and force something that just seemingly isn't going to work well it's interesting you say that we just had frank cervelli on and we were talking about uh marty walsh the new executive director of the nhlpa and uh whether or not uh this might be one of the first things he can kind of come in and take a stance on the biggest issue in the last few years is uh donald fear lost his uh lost his way in terms of looking like a real leader for the players. And there's just almost a level of complacency or acceptance. And you're right, DA.

The players should have a voice in this. This is their money. This is their 50% of revenue that's not being maximized or looked at because of a stubbornness to hang in there. So maybe this is when Marty Walsh's early stance is coming up. It's going to be really interesting. And again, I didn't actually hear Frank's interview, and I didn't even know that the league had announced today

it's another year in Arizona. You're breaking some news for me, JB. I been off the grid uh for the last 12 hours but lifting weights i just pardon me even lifting weights the whole time curls for the girls da i'm uh i'm just crying myself to into nap time matchups we have, it's, yeah, I didn't know that was the case. I wasn't sure. And I'm sure the league, I mean, Gary Bem is such a bright guy. He obviously had contingency plans in place for whether the vote went yes or the vote went no. But I think if nothing else, this seems to me at least like the sort of final

nail in the coffin. You know, it didn't work in Glendale. It obviously seems like it's not going to work in Tempe. You know, you're running out of locations there. I guess there's a notion that the owner of the Phoenix Suns could somehow jump in and be this, you know, knight in shining armor to sort of say, let's figure something out. But that's still like a long-term difficult plan to make an arena that works for both the Phoenix Suns and for the Coyotes. I don't know. There just seems to be so many other viable options. And there seems to be, at least from what I read in here, there seems to be these other markets that are so interested.

You know, now you've heard Salt Lake City and now you've heard always Atlanta. And I know it's failed in Atlanta, not once, but twice, but maybe with a different ownership group and maybe with, you know, in the salary cap era, maybe there's just a better ability for them to be successful, you know, better management in place or whatever the case may be. So. Win a bit would help. Say that again. Win a bit would help, right?

You know, get people into it. But you know, look, look what we've looked at the last two expansion franchises. Maybe that's the best bet, right? Like some, some owners might prefer even they got to pay such a massive premium as opposed to relocation. You know, maybe an owner would say, I'd rather pay the 800 million or 900 million,

whatever they'd be staring down at this point. But at least you, you know, based on what we're seeing from Vegas and from Seattle, you can field a competitive team almost instantaneously if you go about it right. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't have the answers, but it just seems to me like how many times have we been through this with Arizona, with bankruptcy, et cetera, et cetera,

et cetera, and it just doesn't seem to be there. So what do you got going the rest of the week? You work in the East or Western Conference Finals. You go and tank top shopping. What's up? More of the latter than the former. Ron's going to be in studio for both the East and the West. I'll be, you know, watching at home with my popcorn

and making notes and getting ready for the final. And, yeah, it'll be – listen, I think for pure hockey fans, there's some amazing storylines there. I know we've lost a little bit of our, you know, our, you know, force, if you will, without a Canadian market in play. But I think for fans who are, you know, love the game, there's going to be some amazing hockey to be seen and compelling theater because quite frankly, I heard your earlier,

did you pick Florida versus Dallas? Is that what I heard from you? Yeah, I did. I mean. DeBoer versus Paul Maurice. Wow, which would be very cool. And I think it might be the other way around. It's so hard to predict these things, but that's what makes it fun. And I've said for a long time that live sports is the best reality TV there is. So we're excited for the next couple of weeks to see how it shakes down. And it'll be a different final. That's for sure because

three of these teams have never won a Stanley Cup before. So I think that kind of will add an element and a wrinkle to it, which makes it really exciting for us. Do you want to go back to Vegas for a Stanley Cup final? Listen, if I go back, you got to come along because JB, I don't know if I ever told you the hottest I've ever

seen anyone at a craps table and someone who knows nothing about craps is Nick, who must be the one who lost his life. I had to dice for almost an hour. Yeah, it was unbelievable. You can't roll craps for almost an hour and not make a lot of money. I should have made a lot more. You're a competitive conservative? Yeah.

Or stupid? I went on a run for all ages, and I should have ended up making $100,000. That did not happen. And I did not make $100,000. Noted. But it was fun. It was fun. It was a lot of fun.

Oh, my God. All right, DA, thanks for doing this, pal. All right, guys. Enjoy the final or the conference finals, and we'll talk soon. Thanks, DA. David Amber, host of Rogers Monday Night Hockey on Sportsnet. Yeah, Vegas was fun.

Yeah. So yeah, I mean, those are like the good old days. Rooftop hits. Rooftop hits in Vegas? Just under the beating sun in June? Oh, 108 degrees. Can we hurry this up? Yeah, I'd have been melting the audio guy like

it didn't sound right can we take that again you absolutely need a countdown please for the 25th time that sounds does sound like a fun thing to do though i'm sure and this is a pretty cool for you know to da's point if you're a new owner, you want to own an NHL franchise, be like, can I just buy one of the ones that goes to the cup final or the conference final? Even Seattle's year two gets a couple of rounds. Looks pretty good. Better than buying Arizona in 3000th place with no players on your team. Spoils, you're rotten.

Yeah, if I'm an owner, I'd take a little spoiling. I just spent a billion dollars. Like Vegas's runs, say what you will. How many rounds have they played in four years? They made some hard decisions, tough decisions on coaches. Like everybody, you know. I'm ready for Vegas to win the cup. I didn't want it to happen early, but I'm ready now.

People give Vegas a hard time for the way Gerard Gallant left. They give them a hard time for the way Peter DeBoer left. Yeah. They've had some pain, some disappointment. You can't win a cup without some of that. Pacioretty left pissed off. Yeah. But it's like they don't care just because they're going to the conference final. Yeah.

Great. Ugly jerseys going to the conference final. Yeah. Great. Ugly jerseys, ruthless decision-making. Yeah, ruthless. You know, doing what they're doing. I'm fine. I'm ready for them. So DA mentioned three teams hadn't won a cup. Dallas has and Carolina has.

So Florida and Vegas have not won cups. Yes. Yeah, it's going to be fun. I'm excited. I'm excited for these and then you know you're reminded that uh even bruce cassidy went to stan like a final of course with boston yeah but you're like lost to st louis game seven and home it seems like the uh the new guy on the block for me as a head coach does he yeah yeah i mean these coach some awfully good teams to a lot of success.

I, you know, I think he's a really good coach. So I am fascinated to see, I do think that the most interesting story from a personnel standpoint is Dallas, Ryan Suter in Minnesota for all those years, bought out,

goes down there and now he plays, I don't know, 20 minutes a night or whatever he's playing for them. You know, Pavelski all those years in San Jose goes to Dallas, you know know sagan and ben been there all this time like they have some really interesting personnel to to win a cup so i think that that'd be the most story-wise i think that's the interesting cup win even the the paul maurice rod brindamore matchup I find interesting because Paul obviously coached Carolina. Well, Rod is a player?

I think so, yeah. That would make sense. Yeah. Yeah. So there was that first year, if I'm not mistaken, was Paul the coach and match up the years. Sammy, can you look at when Paul Maurice was in

Carolina? Yes. And did Rod step behind the bench as an assistant coach? With Paul? With Paul? I don't know. Or am I You're talking about the year 2000 like so this is after the cup right

oh wait he would have he would have been long gone he would have been yeah yeah yeah yeah um because he went to a final what 2004 palmeries they went to the final i was in university in the u.s when they were on the outdoor life network so this is my black zone they lost in the finals i was in university in the u.s when they were on the outdoor life network so this is my black zone they lost in the finals in 0102 no sorry uh yeah 0102 0102 okay and rod was on that team as a player yes of course uh what a team francis sammy captain rod bates pataglia loved Bates Pataglia. Loved Bates Pataglia. What a handle that is.

That's pretty much what I liked him. He was a Leaf, right? Yeah, he was. One of my buddies, shout out Tim, has a Bates Pataglia jersey. It's been great learning about Tim and Ron these past couple days, let me tell you. So, did we hear from the Edmonton Oilers? Did they have their clean out today? And was it anywhere near the Toronto Maple Leaf drama? I listened to a lot of it.

I gotta say, you know, as a long time veteran audio editor in this business, I'm not sure I've ever listened to someone who speaks less concisely. Concisely, is that a word? Yes.

Than Kenny Holland. his answers today were just unhinged he does every once in a while have uh the ability to bounce he from place to place so he got asked a question about um you know the window kind of closed in here for the oilers how many more years of mcdavid three more years mcdavid two more years of dry sidle he's asking all these questions. He talked for four minutes and 12 seconds straight. On one question? On one question.

Would you like to hear a- McDavid having three years left blows my mind. Would you like to hear a portion of what he had to say? Did I put those clips in? Would you like to hear a portion of what he had to say? Okay, just for a second. Hold on. Okay.

I look at it and I go, oh my God, he's got three more years. That thing won't end for him. Well, for him, I thought as soon as I heard the Matthews deal, I looked at McDavid's deal and I was like, your agent shouldn't have let you go eight. You know, like, you need some flexibility as a superstar in any sport. At that point, all you see is the big number. Yeah.

And that's all you think about. And you're right. It was way too much look at look at uh like a big issue right now for the toronto maple leafs is that kyle and brendan let matthews take five and i don't know if they thought that they had no other choice but they edmonton jammed eight down the best player in the world's throat yeah it's incredible it's incredible it almost feels like the nba player empowerment era came like slightly post mcdavid's deal when everyone was signing like one and one with an option can you imagine

the panic right now in edmonton if Connor had Matthews' contract? Yeah, it'd be the same. Oh, my God. Okay, it's happening. Everybody stay calm. What's the procedure, everyone? What's the procedure? Stay calm.

They wouldn't be able to afford to go into 17 or 18 million. Like us being like, McDavid leaving. Like here, we're like, Matthews probably isn't. La, la, la, la, la. You know, I just think we would drum it up for McDavid leaving. Like here, we're like, Matthews probably isn't. La, la, la, la, la. You know, like I just think we would drum it up for McDavid a bit more. I don't know. But yeah, it'd be mayhem for sure.

There'd be mayhem here too. But they have two years. If Austin played like Connor, there'd be mayhem here. Right now. Yeah. Yeah. There's some people that think let him go ahead yeah let him go let no one's saying that about mcdavid no one's saying that but yeah mcdavid will have two seasons

before it's like the the season right extender trade you get a gretzky moment uh we promised dry i wouldn't do this you want to go to any audio or or you're passing on it? No, I uh, we'll do the first one about it. No, sorry, on him, if you'll be here next year. You gotta ask. You didn't clip the whole four and a half hours. No, Holland's deal is up after this season. After this one year left.

And he got asked if you'll be here after that. Okay, let's listen. Well, I've got a year to go on my contract. For me, it's... Next year. Well, I've got a year to go on my contract. For me, it's unfinished business. I plan to honor my contract. Beyond that,

you know, at this stage of my life, I don't invest in green bananas. Just not sure if I'm going to be around long enough to see them ripen

to be yellow. So, the green bananas thing is a fine expression. I'm not sure it I'm going to be around long enough to see them ripen to be yellow. So the green bananas thing is a fine expression. I'm not sure it's relevant here. The man loves his produce. Can I ask you guys a produce question, a banana question? Is there anything grosser than a non-ripe banana? An overripe banana. Oh, no way.

I'd much rather give me a mushy banana all day long other than a non-ripe banana. I'll take the chalky green one. Oh, that's disgusting. You'd eat a green banana? It's like sawdust. It's really tough to eat. Oh, my God. It's sawdust.

Anyways, that is my produce question for the day. Yeah, we have one every day. If you're not a regular listener to the show, tune in. It's great radio. It's Produce Corner. It's Produce Corner. Right after I read the internet, it's the Farmer's Almanac. Wait till Friday's show.

Wait till June. We have fun. So he got asked about winning the cup and, you know, that window. Does he want to? Well, no, he got asked about, like, you know, the window that we were talking about and, like, how, you know, you take steps to win the cup. This was about three minutes into him talking. This was the part that I found the most interesting.

So this is a minute of him talking. I told you guys, when you win the Stanley Cup, boy, do you party. Because it's not a one-year quest. It's a lifetime quest. Do you know what I mean? You can't party enough when you win that thing. It's a party machine. Because it's so hard to get your

hands on and i want you to know i want our fans to know like we're trying my our my players are devastated like they're they talk to me like it's they're devastated for themselves they're devastated for the fans i know the fans are devastated, but I want everyone to know, like, we're not the only one. Like, there's 31 teams that are at different stages that are disappointments. So we're going to get up off the mat here, and we're going to get back at it in September, and we're going to try to put ourselves back in the same position that we were this year in the playoffs. Feeling good. Believing.

And we're going to try again. It was a lot of that. I just, is he, I like picture him, you know, with some party favors after like an EDM concert after winning. Just party machine. David Guetta. You're having a great time. Kenny Holland Party machine. David Guetta. You're having a great time. Kenny Holland, party machine. Is there a party machine?

He's it. Depends who you ask. He's it. I want to know what it looks like, a party machine. But that's a fair point, right? It is not a one-year thing. It's a lifetime quest, and the frustration is real he sounds like he's not quitting on the team but i don't think this guy has any thoughts of doing this he gonna collect that paycheck next year it's not it's not about

collecting the paycheck he wants to do the honorable thing. If they don't want to replace him now and pay him out and they want him to go to work every day, he's gladly going to go to work every day. He has a chance to win a cup. Still has another chance with a very good team. Yes. But he's like, the only thing he didn't say in that is,

I'm done after next year. Yeah. It's over. Yeah. I'm going to go relax. Yeah. It's over. Yeah. I'm going to go relax. Yeah, that's it. You know, go enjoy, go fishing. Go play with your party machine.

I text someone about Lou Lamorello. Is there karaoke involved here? Is he going to break out in a song? I text someone about Lou Lamorello, like any idea what's going on down there? And they're like, doesn't he want to go fishing? Doesn't he? He's 80 years old

He's got a hobby He liked baseball Once upon a time He was a serious baseball guy Go keep score At all the parks I don't know Join the Big Brother program Yeah, find something score at all the parks i don't know like take your son chris and join the tour big brother program

yeah it's fine something i'm not that i think he can't do it just like don't you have a second interest anyway i think i think there's something to be said that no no yeah if you're still doing it at 80 no it's part of the reason i'm in this job and they're in those jobs i suppose is is a burning desire. Yeah. To start the party machine. I got that thing primed a few times. I have a book about that. I know Kelly Rudy was talking about never seeing a goalie get pulled so often like skinner like is he still the projected guy moving forward here and what do

you do with jack holland did say he's like i think campbell's gonna have a good second year i think this contract next year you absolutely go into the year with jack campbell fresh start as you're starting buddy get to work this summer You got a big contract to earn that respect back. And goaltending, you know, these guys get hot, they get cold. Jack's showing he can get hot. You can't trade him. He's got too much left on his deal. I like Jack in moments.

Campbell's your guy. I like Jack in moments. Just move on. Like, when he got in there, I was like, yeah, he looks somewhat capable. I think he could be a good goalie again in the league. Yeah, at least not a bad one would be good. I think it's a big challenge for him to come back. And I'm not saying it's – look at Bobrovsky, for God's sakes.

Yeah. How many times did we write him off? Many. I actually – Between every game. We're like, oh, next game will be the game where he turns to crap. No, I'm talking about like three years. I know.

But even in the playoffs, you're doing it in between games. He didn't even start this year. Alex Lyons started the first games of the playoffs. Playoffs. Playoffs. Playoffs. And now he's. Sammy, can you give us a little.

Playoffs. Pat. Yeah. Meow. A lot of people hated that, eh? When they heard you do that, I think that's when they knew the Leafs were going to lose in five.

You lost fans. That's okay. Meow. That was a drop. Yeah, you don't have that kind of spunk anymore. It's because we did Leafs talk after they put out Tampa and Bunk asked me, who do you want?

And I said, give me the Cats. I'm thrilled. You were only right to say, give me the Cats. Yeah. That was a fair request. But I don't... No. Okay.

Now, was it a good call? I do think that there's a world... We're almost going to break,. We're almost done here. Give me a scale of 1 to 10 on this time tomorrow. We'll have definitive news on Kyle Dubas' future as a Toronto Maple Leaf. I say 90% chance it happens. 9 out of 10. And Borny will be on horseback riding.

Yeah, I will not be paying attention to that information. You think this time tomorrow we know what's happening? I really hope so, because we've got to talk about something. Talk about victory. We're going to play for Pop in San Antonio. Yeah, great. We still have no NHL hockey tonight. Nothing.

Jays are on. Big must. A Sam McKee must win tonight. Anybody cheating? Yeah, they cheat every day. Wow. The Jays will probably whine about it the whole time. All right.

Our thanks to Gary Gally, Frank Cervelli, and David Amber. We are back tomorrow. As usual, you know where to find us. Real Kipper and Bourne. Have a great night, everybody.