Real Kyper & Bourne - Scouting Report with Jason Bukala + Heated Preseason

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne are joined by Sportsnet's draft and prospect analyst Jason Bukala to chat about evaluation processes during the preseason, whether Jake DeBrusk can co-exist alongside Elias Pettersson on the Canucks' second line, the ramifications of WHL's Braxton Whitehead verbally committing to the NCAA and if the Sens can climb back into the points within the Atlantic Division. Then, Nick, Justin and Sam share their thoughts on a heated preseason game between the Montreal Canadiens and Sens and Arber Xhekaj's hit on Tim Stützle.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliate.

all right let's get the national hour going here on the real kipper in the born show the kiprios justin bourne in studio special guest jason bucla this hour of real kipper and born brought to you by bet365 seen on sportsnet. Also heard on Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver and Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. Boogs, what's going on? So, you know, we got three months off. Am I going to make you jealous right now? Yeah, please do. Three months off.

As still a lot of scouting in your blood. Yes. Didn't really change this summer for you, did it? There's no off-season anymore, fellas. Doesn't seem like there is. Like, I mean, you come out of the draft, you get into free agency, you go to development camps. You know, I obviously didn't do that, but, you know,

Holenka, Gretzky, Kip, you know, I over-coffee there earlier. You know, you go to Edmonton in August for the Holenka, which is the official start of the amateur scouting calendar for next year's draft. Then before you know it, here we are again. Training camps, rookie games, rookie tournaments, all that kind of stuff. It's changed a lot. Since I started in Asheville

in the early 2000s, 2006, whatever it was, it's changed a lot. We used to have an off-season. A couple months in there, play golf, go to the cottage, not so much anymore. The Holenka is kind of where it all starts is it and uh and so when you go to these sort of events is it all the same people like you know you've been a part of the scouting community now for a long time is it kind of like the first day of school it kind of is yeah yeah it is yeah and

you know you can see some of the guys who've been kind to their bodies for the first month of the offseason and other guys who haven't. Right. And all that kind of stuff. But, yeah, no, it's that right there. Like, there's a lot of GMs that are there. Everybody, it's almost like everybody kind of wants to reconvene a little bit too. I have to say this.

I love going to Edmonton to scout hockey. Edmonton's a Canadian city. I get it. But Bratislava usually hosts that every other year there in Slovak. And that's a fantastic area of the world if you ever get a chance. So it's going back there next year. I'm already looking forward to it a little bit more than I did Edmonton. There you go.

Fair enough. We're talking to Jason Buchla, former NHL scout, Sportsnet hockey analyst, and the pro hockey group. So a lot of discussion books over training camp seeing guys get hurt uh stars on the ice against minor leaguers some getting hurt so like as a former scout like where was the value of you watching or assessing a preseason game when you watch nothing on the line yet? Sometimes you could have a group of rookies,

which we've seen on occasion already, show up, play hard, and then the group that you think that should run over a team, 11-0 with veterans, end up losing. Attention to detail. How much stock did you as a scout put into watching these games it was uh it was literally all over the map i have to be truthful about it so we would sometimes well first of all as you guys know some veteran guys they want to get so many reps in right and it's not that they're going to be full bore necessarily which i think is actually a dangerous thing.

Like when you're not playing the game to your full capacity, that's when silly things seem to happen, you know, injury-wise. But some guys wanted to get so many reps in. I can recall when I was working for Dale Tallon in Florida, and there was a Detroit Red Wing who was going to go on the waiver wire. But we had some interest in him. I don't mind telling you, it was Jacob Kindle, the defenseman, okay? Yeah.

It's a long time ago. And, you know, so I went down to Chicago. I live in London. Dale says, can you go to Chicago tonight and see this, you know, Kindle because they're going to put him on waivers. Something's going to happen. And do you think he's worth a late round pick? So there's where you're conflicted, right?

Because you go to a game and it's half veteran guys, eight guys, right? Yeah, it's full in Chicago, but it doesn't't matter and kindle's a defenseman for detroit so am i going to get him under duress the way i would normally get at that time with the chicago blackhawks obviously not so it's delicate like you gotta you know for veteran guys or semi-veteran guys or even guys that are kind of getting into that 22 23 year old mold youold mold, you know, like Robertson here, for example. I guarantee teams have been heavily scouting Robertson through the preseason, guaranteed. So, I don't know.

I will say this. I'm very concerned about the amount of injuries that are taking place in preseason. You know, I think that we're almost getting to the stage we have to be like the National Football League and, you know, play a game a week. And, you know, you're only rolling your good guys out there once in a while.

Right. Yeah, you could save some injuries just by having Arbor Jack I play less. But just one suggestion might be one of the ideas. So we're going to get to, we want to go across Canada a little bit and ask you about some of the prospects. Obviously your specialty, what's going on

for some of these Canadian teams. So I guess I'll start with the Canucks because you mentioned an interesting name there. Atu Ratu, you've liked him so far? I have, yeah. It's been an interesting journey for this kid. So in his draft cycle several years ago, because he's 21 now, I guess, he was going to be potentially a top 10 pick. You know, he got draft-itis, as I like to call it.

You know, some guys just kind of um they just don't they're not the best version of themselves for whatever reason sometimes in their draft year and um it's been a little bit of a slow burn his his wheels he's part of the boho rat trade okay so the islanders draft him in the second round he's what's left over in that horvat trade to to the island from vancouver and you know it's been a slow burn for him to get to he had a real nice year last year in abbotsford i think it was right around point of game his wheels have been average average plus okay now what he's done is i would say he's improved maybe 10 somehow some way maybe it's training you know biomechanics and all his fitness is different better whatever the case may be he's

getting from a to b quicker especially in small areas but you know he really does guys he's got a b game now okay so it's not going to be at the bottom of the lineup where you need him to score 12 or 15 that would be a bonus right but the fact of the matter is that he's extending plays he's leaning on people hash marks down hard to play against those types of things that obviously with the way that they're trying to play there especially looking for that type of breed in the bottom of their lineup that's good for the Canucks and you know if he pairs up let's say he's on the road and and he pairs up against a second pairing D okay and all he does is bodies them three times makes life miserable on him and then the next time that that D comes out

that D's run up against you know one of the connect's top six units he's he's a lesser version of himself now isn't he so that's that's the role i see him playing there he's been very impressive the brusque with petterson yeah you like it you like that that that chemistry that or that potential for chemistry yeah interesting time will tell i guess i'm on the fence with it i don't know what the breast ceiling is necessarily offensively. Like, could he be better than what he was in Boston? Like, he always gave me the impression that he should be, you know, a 65-point guy, you know, almost all the time.

Like, when he's playing at the top of his game. For whatever reason, if you look at his statistics in Boston, it was kind of like, you know, and there was some noise there too at one point. Remember, he kind of wanted out of there and stuff like that. It's going to be interesting. I see the reason why they're doing it. Long term contract,

the new guy on the scene. He's got to play top six. We'll see how it goes. I'm looking for him though definitely to be north of 60 points there and compliment Pedersen in a better way yeah so i want to ask you how do you feel about quick judgments on drafts or looking at like oh they passed over this guy when they could have had this guy because right now sitting here this morning

montreal didn't take matvey mitchkoff and he's looking pretty good in philly and reinbacher gets hurt early and it looks like it's already decided right like oh they should have taken mitch koff but how do you feel when you hear people like pundits talking about what they should have done in a draft this shortly after it i don't like it at all it drives me crazy you know for the fraternity especially because they've been out there and they work so hard to listen there's a plan in place like rein, Ryan Bacher that year, two things. Mitch Koff wanted to be a Philadelphia Flyer. Yeah, he wanted to be a Philadelphia Flyer. It kind of came out through, you heard a lot of noise,

but through the periphery it was like, he really wants to be in Philadelphia, or at least in that area. Let's call it the metro, the New York region. Let's just call it for that, for argument's sake. And so teams were already weary of is he going to come you know so if you draft him ahead of of the eighth slot he went eighth right if you draft him ahead of that is he going to come you know what what are we going to get ourselves into here and don't forget like hindsight being what it is the the hockey guys have talked on two teams relatively well

here because cutter goche didn't want to be a philadelphia flyer mitch cop wants to be a philadelphia flyer pretty good right you know he swapped that out demodob ends up a montreal canadian this year for me he was the second best player in the draft okay yeah absolutely second best player in the draft and he ends up a montreal canadian this year so to your reinbacher point like you know it's funny how it all comes full circle reinbacher is a hell of a player that was a freak injury you know mont, Montreal, knock on wood, like Kirby Dock last year, like freak injuries. But he's a hell of a player and very smart, very talented.

Can quarterback a second unit power play in time. But big bodied, who moves very well. And it's just going to take time with guys like that. So, yeah, I don't love it when it's judged too early. Takes time, man. What kind of conversations is it today when it comes to, like, two players being close and then one may be from Russia? And as a scouting staff or management staff, you're like,

don't want to deal with Russia. Don't want to deal with releases. Don't want to negotiate prices. Don't want that headache. Right. Is that more prevalent than ever? I don't think it's the same for every team and i'll i'll present it this way actually three different ways i don't i still think that

there's some teams in the league who are shying away from drafting a russian period and i'm not even just talking for hockey reasons i'm talking geopolitical the owner has a as a slant on something i think that that actually does exist in the league the second thing that i will say is that the risk you know is the reward are we going to get the player how are we going to manage the asset that's absolutely a concern but the third thing i would say is this i'm not so sure that the u.s national team development player program and their players their high-end guys that are coming out of there aren't becoming i think the russians are getting less risky and the u.s national team development players who are really really good think the Russians are getting less risky and the U.S. national team development players

who are really, really good going to college are getting more risky to a degree. It seems like a couple, yeah. Why is that? Well, I don't know. Like Gauthier decided he didn't, you know, want to become a Philadelphia Flyer for whatever the reason is.

Rucker McGroarty. You know, you could say the Winnipeg thing, but, you know, like back in the day, the NHL, it's like the Augusta National, right? You know, if you're asked to be a member of the club just go play the game anywhere go play the game it's there's 32 teams in the best league in the world i don't care where it is i know for my kid if he's going to be a hockey player you don't get to pick where you play in the best league in the world so um if that happened i don't know no one's come out and told me that specifically

we've had this discussion before like they're they're like much different rules from drafting in the chl or the ncaa like all of a sudden these these ncaa kids are going well wait a second i can be a free asian a lot faster now and why wouldn't i exercise that muscle oh and i'll tell you you don't want a high-end college player that you've selected. I don't care where you've selected him because let's just say he's a third rounder, but he hits. Like, he's really good. Well, look at us with Florida back in the day.

Zach Hyman, he's a sixth round pick to us in Florida, okay? His first three years at the University of Michigan, he scores like 19 goals in three years. His last year, he looked like he looks today in the national hockey league he's in his senior year right so he's walking us to water saying he's going to sign with the florida panthers until he doesn't right so if you have a talent at the college level and he's getting into year three and he isn't signing with you i'm looking at my general manager and saying we better manage this very very closely because i don't think he's coming.

Let's not put all the control in his notebook, if you will. Let's take back some control there. So I don't mean to put you on the spot with this, but things are really changing with development leagues and what players can do. I mean, what are your thoughts? I know it's a pretty general question, but you look at these guys who could play a major junior and then play college. Is that good for our game or oh i know that's a really

broad question is there something in there in particular that stands out to you that will change and is anything changed just to add jb is anything changed between the last time we had a conversation with uh where the ncaa is and these players like, is it going to get challenged now if a CHL player wants to end his amateur career with a school down in the States? Well, we're starting to see it, aren't we? Forget the name of the player committed to Arizona State, right? I think in the perfect world,

for everything to align the way that the NHL wants it to align, and I'm talking about development fees. I'm talking about timelines. You know, like right now, if we draft a European, he's on the clock for four years of development, right? If we draft a CHL kid, two years and you got to make a decision on him. You know, an NCAA player, we're talking about that being in flux, right? Technically, he could come out after one year, you know,

and that happens obviously um i think ideally the league would like the cba and all of this change in ncaa hockey to kind of hit the ground running at the same time because it's going to be a cba notation isn't it you know what's the you know what's the development fee what's the if a kid doesn't come do we get uh do we get a compensatory pick out of that there's always gonna be all these moving parts do i think it's good i think that anytime that you can um offer up the opportunity for any kid they all develop it on their own timelines right so i think that anytime you can open up the landscape to as much competition as possible to get the best product um i think that's good for the game how it planes out in the long run not so sure because the ushl is a juggernaut in the states it's a big business there's a lot of great centers there

are they going to be is there going to be less ushl players going to play in big time schools but having said that if you go to like a lake state let's just say up in sault ste marie they will benefit from the older chl player do you have a chance to play in the USHL? It was a nothing burger for you? Yeah, when I played in the BCHL, the USHL was just starting, and it was kind of a laugher. It was kind of like one of those four-letter SPHL or whatever below that, whatever league it was. It wasn't what it is now, which is...

More players are being drafted out of the USHL than the CHL now? Big business. Well, no, not out of the CHhl then the big business big business well um no not out of the chl not not comparatively like well here's how they position it though they position a college player who played in dubuque as a ushl player still which is like you and i saying that easton cowan played for the uh kamoka kings and junior b and he's a kamoka king i mean that doesn't make any any sense right so uh you can spin it any way you want. Right.

So will NIL have anything, any input on this? You know, the ability for kids to go to college and get paid if you're a star star versus going the CHL route? That's going to be fascinating. Yeah. Absolutely. Like it's hot.

And where does it land? So that's a great point. So if you're a high-end guy, let's just be crazy here for a second think back to connor mcdavid's draft here instead of playing for the erie otters okay he's at the university of michigan and guess what he's making a million dollars on on nil you know what i mean still developing and getting paid in the progress process yeah and playing 42 games or whatever he's playing right twice on the weekends or whatever maybe not necessarily the best idea for the player

but you can certainly see the the from where you sit, right? It's a negotiating ploy. It's going to be, yeah. So I'm fascinated to see where that goes. Because right now in the OHL, I remember back to my Suse Marie Graham days a long, long time ago. We always had those players who were like, you'd be looking at a Toronto Marley kid, right?

No, I'm going to go play college hockey. I'm going to go play in Michigan. And then, you know, we don't draft him as Suse Marie. And then we show up in Kitchener on a Friday night and he's playing for the Kitchener Rangers. You know what I mean? So there's going to be some tactics involved. Edmonton, Winnipeg, Calgary, pick your poison on...

Not a lot of room for prospects in Edmonton. You know, obviously what happened in the offseason with the offer sheet situation, it doesn't move the needle much in terms of prospects entering into that equation there. Savoy trade from Buffalo was curious for me to go to Edmonton. He needs time in the American League to apply his trade for the type of player he is. Edmonton is going to be a juggernaut in my

estimation i mean were you surprised that ego didn't take over the decision to keep find somehow keep the edmonton players uh out of st louis uh because that's what usually happens how dare you you're not going to get it yeah you're not taking my players money it's money it's salary cap exposure shouldn't we see more of this then? Yeah, absolutely. There's a ton of teams. Well, if you want to look at how the St. Louis Blues position it, like how Army position it, you know, this is business.

You know, I do this to my mother, I think, is what his quote was, right? Yeah, absolutely. You should see it. If you've got the flexibility, like why would you have to wait? I'll give you an example. I'm Utah, and I come from Arizona. All of a sudden, I have an owner who's willing to spend to the cap okay where we've been let's be honest a lot of bad contracts have been landing there for several years so now it's the exact flip side of that

and if you've got the room why wouldn't you i want to get good sooner than later you know for a couple reasons a because we wanted our city to embrace us, but also those guys who've been going through the tough days with us in Arizona, let's reward them with as good a team. So, yeah, I think that, you know, it should be out there, but it's, I mean, as long as those teams are just spending, you know, a lot of money at the top of their lineups, especially to get to the ceiling of the cap or close to LT to start years like that, it's going to be uh they're

going to expose themselves even more yeah you know while we're trying to go around canada and touch on each team uh kip and i did a pre-season game actually i think you missed the first one where carter yakum chuck the ottawa senator's young d-man split the d scores a ot winner tell me about this kid scored 30 in junior like is he how soon can he be an impactful NHL-er? So, the interesting thing about Carter, he's a late birthday, and he required, there's an example of a kid who needed an extra year to grow into his frame. You know, he got tall and whatever. I love his mechanics on straight lines.

I think there's no issues there at all. You saw that in that exhibition. He split the D and went in and whatever. He's got the offensive brain. He can shoot it from distance. Beat goalies from distance, too. Weak side on the power play, for example. He's got bite, too. 120 can shoot it from distance, beat goalies from distance too. Weak side on the power play, for example. He's got bite too.

120 pims in the dub, okay? The dub might not be the dub of 25 years ago, but 120 pims when you play 25 minutes a night, that's a lot of time in the box, right? So I think that he's got an A game and a B game. I think he's going to be able to do a lot of different things. It's just going to come down to timing, you know, like getting that small area, you know, guys are quicker, stronger.

They body up a little bit differently. So it'll take time. But, you know, I think he gets nine games for sure. And we'll see how it goes. Yeah, I really do believe that. Their preseason tournament in Buffalo was a tire fire. I don't know if you guys saw that or not. Ottawa was 0-3.

They scored four and allowed 17. And people were coming out of there looking at their prospect pool saying, uh-oh, you know. But Yakim Chuck's gone to a different level since he arrived with the big guys. So I am coming into this season thinking that this season may kind of mirror last season's in terms of where we see the pecking order going into the playoffs again. But there's so much more pressure on the likes of the team that you just mentioned, Ottawa, Buffalo, Detroit.

I'm still kind of not sure where Montreal is if it's just another year that they miss the playoffs and they just get the playoff. Okay, all right. But there's a ton of pressure on Adams, I think, Stevie Heiserman to get this team over the hump. And, you know, with Ottawa, like Ann Lauer just spent another $100 million, I think,

to take a percentage of the team. He's got to get into the playoffs. Yeah, they lost money last year. Where do you see one team stepping up or no? I mean, they can knock on the door, but Montreal and Ottawa, they were, like, 18 points out of a playoff spot. That's not like... Sens fans like the Sens this year.

They think they're getting in. Elliot picked them. That's just not missing. No, that's missing. That's missing. That's nine games behind in the American League East. Let's be honest. That's not just missing, right?

Can Ottawa make up that many points? I don't... I am hoping they do. I really... Because for the good of the franchise and all the good news about the new owner and different things and obviously hopefully a shovel going in the ground at some point for the new rank on the flats all these positive things behind the scenes i just don't know other than washington who falls out that's where i'm struggling you know so um you know they have to get off to a good start guys

their starts like that for you know we always talk about thanksgiving american thanksgiving if you're here for me teams like ottawa but these buffalo actually generally gets off to good starts and then something goes terribly wrong but like ottawa's got to be seven and three out of the gates like they can't be chasing points they're always chasing and then they get hot at the end of the year and ruin their draft pick yeah yeah yeah it's just it's backwards you got to figure it out um hopefully they're a year older a year better prepared they got all mark and goal you know comes up with some big saves i'd run that guy out for every game to start the first 10 or so i gotta do what i gotta do here um i will say this so by linus Allmark.

As great as his stats were and how good he's been, if you want to watch tape on Linus Allmark, there are some nights that he looks like Joey, your next door neighbor, playing road hockey. He's diving his jets out of a box. It looks very unorthodox. It works in Boston because you

might only have to make one save. When you're with a developing group, you might have to regroup and make a second save. And we'll see how that goes. Just staying on the goaltending, I'd love your thoughts on the Boston Bruins handling Jeremy Swayman and whether or not they should have found a way to hold on to Allmark just in case they had some issues um where do you see swayman uh by december 1st i see him and i see him in boston i do see him in boston i'm fascinated though by the process that

has occurred here i don't understand when you're trading all mark and you have to resign the other guy i don't know where like did we not talk and you have to re-sign the other guy. I don't know where, like, did we not talk to each other in the lead up to some of these transactions? Like, did we not get a feel for each other of where we're going with things? Like, you would have thought, in my mind, that that would have happened already. Have a deal in place before you trade Allmark. Yeah, like you have to have some sort of a plan in place. And then all this other noise that uh that falls it after that

i think he ends up in boston and i don't i think it's in spite of upper management um i think that whenever you take a player to arbitration and they hear all the bad things about themselves from the other side when when they've been given the best version of themselves that's a tough like these guys they don't like to hear that nobody does but a lot of pro athletes have been the best of the best every step of the way they haven't got a lot of negatives so they don't like to hear that. Nobody does, but a lot of pro athletes have been the best of the best every step of the way. They haven't got a lot of negatives, so they don't like to hear that especially. I'm fascinated by it.

I'm disappointed by it. I think he comes back for the good of the group. I think there's a culture there, and he's going to, at the end of the day, be in for that. Eight years old, that's going to be curious to me. A lot of years but there's a bit of a precedent now with general managers hedging here on second contracts and slavkoski of course struggled out of the gate found his footing boom eight-year deal so it's like... Robert Thomas in St. Louis. I get Swayman's 25 and he's only played like 130 games or whatever. But like, pretty good goalie and he's in the ballpark of all the rest of them making eight and a half or nine.

Like, what's the big deal here? For me, from the management side 20 games because connor hellebuck's gonna roll out and play so when you start throwing out numbers that i should be making what vasilevsky makes or what hellebuck makes and all this okay and they're they're rolling out there for and it's not apples to apples it's it isn't it's percentages of what the cap's available the cap could be $100 million tomorrow if they just decide to really use real revenue coming in, but they've artificially slowed it down,

and the thing can boom to $100 million like that very soon, and that's new money coming into the system to get the same percentage that you had back then. It's not because it's Vasilevsky's number. You deserve more than Vasilevsky. It's like today's money. Yeah, so that's where it's at, though. Like, it goes Vasilevsky, whatever Vasilevsky was at 9-5

compared to the percentage at that time. Now you start to back it out. And if the percentage right now of the athlete is saying that I deserve this money, and I take, well, here's something that's interesting. Didn't the league just come out and say that next year might go to 92.5 okay so 92.5 and he isn't signed so now he knows that at eight if that's what the number is eight million this is my percentage at eight but i was negotiating previously to that on the old number at eight at 88 right so now i should

be eight five eight seven five whatever the case may be, right? Nine, let's say nine million. Okay. And it'll still age well if he hits. That'll still age well. Yeah, it will. Right? But I mean, it's just,

that whole process is fascinating. Maybe this is going to be a new precedent. You know, this holdout guy who is going to listen at Arb and all that, and then he's just going to wait for that salary cap number to come up before he signs a new deal. I'm with you, Kipper. I mean, it is in relation to the percentage,

but that's where I come back to the games played, though, too. I have to factor that in because it's not like the Grant Fure days when Mike Keenan rolls them out for 75 games, okay? Ones in the league now are between 60 and 64 games. I think I'm doing this off the top of my head. I bet you that's pretty high, right? So when you're in your 40s, you haven't shown me yet. It's like in Toronto here.

Things could go really well, but both these guys, and whatever happens, Murray, whatever, but we're talking guys that play like 30 games a year. Right. Okay, so that matters to me in the process outside of the percentages. Yeah, makes sense to me. As you say, everyone wants the like Jack Hughes thing

where you've given a guy eight times eight was his contract or something. Now he's going to make $8 million a year scoring 130 points. Everyone's trying to do that. And I don't blame guys for locking up the value, but I think more nhlers should look at the nba thing and if they believe in themselves sign for three years four years you know like austin matthews basically the only guy who does it right now but you've got to have a team willing to say we'll accept you at that number and everyone else is jamming eight years

they're not dumb like i want to i want to know I'm, I want to know for the eight years you're locked in. If it's going to come lower. Unless it's Matthews, though. Unless it's one of the top five guys in the league. Eight years is a long time to commit to someone. Like, I'm okay with committing to five years as a team. Let's make sure we like you, too. You guys don't think it's situational, though?

So, New Jersey's in a cycle when they sign him to that deal, right? Which, it's kind of like Quinn Hughes, even. Like, when you sign these guys to deals, depending on where your team's in a cycle when they sign them to that deal right which it's kind of like quinn hughes even like when you sign these guys to deals depending on where your team's in the cycle that number of eight you know they're they're putting you up against the other guys on your roster and all that kind of things and how they're building out their team now the the kid the player says yeah i'm satisfied with that number i'll sign for eight unless you're the toronto maple east where matthews was afforded like the the tea leaves look like we're gonna get pretty good on paper like regular season good at the very least right so now it's like i'll bet on myself a little bit differently because you know it works the way our team is here they're gonna do it the leafs are because they just are they're

gonna do it they're not gonna risk you know him playing. So I think it depends on the team, depends on the situation. And you know what? It depends also on location. You can never forget that, right? Like, you know, there's some teams in this league that if I don't, the league might not want to hear it, but there's some tax havens in this league.

And that matters too, to some of those players in those markets. They'll leave a schmill on the table. Alexander Barkov makes 10. Is that going to age well? Like, obviously it's going to age well yeah right okay it's like 12 in toronto or oh new york at least i was speaking to an agent he said that if he played in new york i don't know what the cost of living was when you played for the rangers but he said if that guy was playing in new york

it was 13 million a year that barkoff would have to get paid in new york right okay the same amount of money to keep the same amount i money. I got traded in 1993. And factoring in cost. I got traded in 1993 from Hartford to New York, 1993. My rent in Hartford was $235. And then I go, hey, mess, how much do you need to rent in New York City? He says, ah, you can find a decent place for like $3,000. I'm like, uh.

I turned into Cliff Clavin. Talking to girls. How much? That's brutal. You're looking for a roommate at that point. Did you have a roommate in New York? Seven of them. Just to bring the rent out.

Yeah, smart. All right. Well, listen, great stuff as always man thanks really appreciate it appreciate it man yeah always nice to have a head scout tell you the way it is thanks don't be a stranger around here man okay well i was only in here for to see dab vermin yeah you know like the great dab and hillary you know i didn't see her today but she would normally make me look even better but that's the only reason i was here but i'm glad to see you guys thanks for coming i appreciate it take a quick break and we'll trade in books for for sammy is that

even up or is that like we need a lot more futures cash can you still get cash in a deal more real kipper and born after the break hey it's alish for a fire and i'm justin cutford join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the break hey it's alish for a fire and i'm justin cutford join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night it's the fan pre-game 6 p.m weekdays on sportsnet sportsnet 590 the fan and wherever you get your podcasts coming down the stretch here on day two, the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. This hour, Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet365.

We've got NHL notes, but before that, Sammy, welcome back to the program. A little game time. After Boogs there, I'm like, he should just be the third guy. Boogs produced. He's really good. Yeah. Really good. Yeah, he can just be the third guy. He's really good. Really good. You can chew the fat, man.

You're welcome here anytime. He could talk a pit bull off a meat wagon. I believe he could. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app, play the odds, and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Now, what I'm doing today, another big picture one,

the Hart Trophy favorites. You can probably guess who the number one favorite is, I would imagine. His name's Connor McDavid. David McConner. Pretty good. Plus 150 to be the MVP, the Hart Trophy winner in the NHL. You're basically betting does he get hurt or not.

Yeah, that's exactly right.'s healthy he wins or i mean they he could have won it last year too probably should have won it last year i mean it's a narrative thing it's like lebron lebron could have been the mvp every single year but there's writers and people who watch the league want to have someone different want to make sure everyone gets one. Who's good? The next favorite is Nathan McKinnon at 6-1 plus 600. Austin Matthews at plus 850. Jack Hughes plus 1100. Nikita Kucherov plus 1800. And the last one I'll say is

Dreisaitl at plus 2,000, 20-1. You know what we're missing? We're missing one there. Kael McCarr. Do you want me to look up his number for you? It's just very rare that a defenseman can

win this trophy. It is rare. Historically speaking. But I believe that he's The last one was Pronger. His last one, Pronger? Yeah. Is that true? Doughty? No. I skated with Pronger a month ago. You did? you survive like so it was a charity

event in brampton and like he's like hasn't skated in seven years oh yeah oh my god seven years he came out i don't even know if he borrowed equipment or whatever but like and he kind of still intimidated me out there. Yeah, that makes sense. I knew maybe I was going to get a stick over the head at any time. Well, I don't think Kael McCarr would do that. But I do think that Kael McCarr is plus 2,500, 25 to 1 for Kael McCarr. He's just that age where he could have like a 95-point season,

and with the rest of his game, just he's different enough to me that he's worth a flyer did you mention kucherov i didn't mention kucherov did i say no i didn't say he's plus 1800 18 to 1 okay all right he he sneaks in the 140 points oh my god yeah he's so good he's nasty he's so good yeah he really is and he's just i mean the all-star game performance last year was all-time stuff in that skills thing where he's like i like him i like kucherov but i am a little bit his actions sometimes do not please me and just to confirm the last uh defenseman to win the heart trophy was indeed ch Chris Pronger in the year

2000. So it's been a long time since a defenseman has won the Hart Trophy. So there you go. That was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the last odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Alright, how much did you catch out of that nastiness against

Montreal Canadiens and the Ottawa Senators? I actually watched that. For the second consecutive game there, that Jack Hyde is like, can somebody remind him that it hasn't really started? You don't have, like, he was reactive to that hit. Like, there's no question that, tied to the crank hit 100 that one had message sending written all over it for me so i am 100 sure the league looked at that play

and said that that's a stick that hits stutzler right it's his own stick he hits stutzler's gloves and he hits himself with the stick and that's enough is that enough to say no they should still suspend him. It's like if you drive recklessly all over the road and someone swerves to get out of the way and crashes, it's like you still caused the crash. You know, I definitely feel like that's a, they just need to do, it's like Rempe.

It was like someone just pour cold water on this guy and just like, he's going to hurt someone playing like this. It's preseason. I mean, yeah, everybody's, whoa, it was the stick that cut him. on this guy and just like he's going to hurt someone playing like this it's pre-season i mean yeah there's everybody's whoa was the stick that cut him that didn't excuse the flying elbow when the puck was on the sideboards yes so i don't know like to me i'll get your thoughts on this but you can't have it if you're the nhl i'm not necessarily this is my youth this is what i grew up watching that hit happened every night when I used to watch hockey when I was a kid

and in my 20s and my teens. That was all the time. Yeah. But like the NHL wants to not have that anymore, right? Like they want to get rid of that. But like if they want to protect your stars. That's what I mean. Do they know?

They know. The NFL protects their quarterbacks because they're the stars. Do we not protect Jimmy Stu? The perception is they may want it out of the game but they just prove they don't they don't care he went flying through the the middle of the ice flying elbow on a star player in a meaningless preseason game and he didn't even get a fine you know after beating a guy mercilessly is the game before you know what kills me is yeah i think at the start of the year you'd like to send the message to the rest of the league we're watching what's the best behavior here boys but to me it's a no-brainer and the next two games they play ottawa and toronto again listen who wants him in those

games if you really want to send them like nothing would hurt a player worse than missing your season opening game. That's the game you want. You know, like, that one stings. You can even let him play that, though. That one stings. Just say he can't play in the next two preseasons. Exactly. You know, what's the harm?

No, no, no, no, no. Bigger message. Into the regular season? He shouldn't be in the lineup Wednesday. Yeah. I mean, he is operating dangerously out there. So, three-game suspension, two preseason, one pre-season would you think about the pre-season games are worth half a game but so then but then he gets to play in the two pre-season games against the rivals

and then play opening night it's not listen i don't care about pre-season either do i don't even but he does obviously he can't play in those games he can't play in those and he can't play in the opening game okay yeah he wants yeah i don't even count those but he can't play in the opening game. Okay. Yeah, he wants to. I don't even count those. But, like, now is Ryan Reeves going to fight him next game? Is, you know, who is it on Ottawa? Who's it going to be? Someone going to go fight McEwen or someone? Like, are we going to have a hullabaloo?

Like, I'm watching it last night and then I'm thinking he's going to get a game and there's nothing there. And I'm like, the whole hockey world's confused right now i don't know what's suspendable and what what's not well these guys will say it's letter of the law they'll say he did not hit him in the head what do you want me to suspend him for he didn't hit his head he hit his hands and then the guy hit himself you can't it's attempted murder you can't suspend for intent you get suspended for a results. What happened? Is that what it is? That's absolutely, if we had them on the show right now,

they would say he didn't hit him in the head. What do you want me to do? And Ridley Greggs was pretty greasy too. It was greasy. Very greasy hit. It was not as greasy, but in the same conversation. What did Morgan end up getting? Six.

Five. Six reduced. Was it? It was five six five six reduced was it it was five maybe six reduced i think it was reduced five to four or six to five i can't remember but it was and that wasn't as vicious of a beating than what uh jack i did that one is last week clearly a suspension right it's like when you throw three or four punches at an unwilling combatant that's one thing but the seventh or eighth is like all right so you guys think the punching was worse than the hit last night i just think that lee like technically it's hard to suspend a guy for when the contact wasn't there when i saw that clip and like i the broadcast

you know mike john's like oh oh my. He immediately knew. He's like, he's out of the game. That, to me, I was like, oh my God, he's definitely getting suspended. I was more sure of him getting suspended for that than the punching. And they got out the microscope and went, ah, technically. Listen, I'm as old school as anyone, but you have to kind of square up and give a guy a chance to say, okay, I'm fighting you now.

Yeah. And that one just escalated to, you know, I'm going to Bertuzzi you. Yeah. We can't have that today. Yeah. No. So either way, he'll be emboldened i think i think arbor jack guy is going to be matt rampe uh not even light just another matt rampe but yeah i think but he's been in the league

longer i guess and marginally i guess yeah i don't know it just didn't feel like he was just square up with a guy that's all i mean you want him with paray paray to square up with a guy. That's all. I mean, you want him to fight him. You want him with Paré. Paré to square up. That's all. Just give him a chance to at least say, you know, I'm coming after you. You took out our $8.5 million score here. You know it's coming. Just give him a chance to say yes or no.

Can I say something? That he wasn't exactly quick to get the flippers off with Brady Kutruk breathing down his throat. Jackeye? Yeah. Didn't have much of a chance, but he didn't exactly throw him off quickly. So, interesting. This comes up for more must-watch TV next Wednesday.

I mean, we're all the same. I love this. Like, I love hockey like this. Yeah. But I think it's hard for the NHL to try to sell that it's not this all the time with like, they're like you know we care about the players health and all this stuff when and then it's just in preseason

games guys are throwing flying elbows and nothing happens maybe they've decided they want more of this and i'm yeah i love it just make the statement i in a way they have made the statement they have they absolutely have you know who else made a statement? Hmm. The Wild owner. Okay. I like this one. Okay. Would you like me to read what the owner said? Please do. Okay. Craig Leopold.

We plan to resign him. Who's that? The Wild. Yeah. Kaprizov. Kirill Kaprizov. We plan to resign him. I will tell you nobody will offer him more money than us or longer years.

So all we have to do is prove to him that we want to win. I would love to hear my boss say that. No one is going to pay this guy more than us in terms of years and dollars. What does Garen think of those words? The GM of the team going, ah, not helping, man. They just are still kind of figuring it out with the money lost on buyouts to parisian suitor how much long are they doing that oh this is it one more year i think yeah this is the last year but you

know what this kind of reminds me of you were critical today of i believe blue jays gm ross atkins uh was asked or is it shapiro was asked if uh guerrero was a generational player listen i don't i don't want to do this okay i don't want to talk they were asked is vladimir guerrero is a generational player. Listen, I don't, I don't want to do this. Okay. Okay. I don't want to talk. I agree. Is Vladimir Guerrero Jr. A generational player. And instead of just saying,

yes, they waffled on it. This is the wilds owner saying, stay, we want you. We love you. We'll pay you unequivocal. Yeah.

It's not really what it used to be because a guy like that's going to get eight years or seven or eight, you know, if he walks and joins another team, obviously he may not get an eighth year. But generally speaking, everybody's within the ballpark of a mil, mil and a half for most of these guys. Of course, Connor in a year could ask, or is it two years? Buddy, Conor's not taking in more than Leon. Exactly, but he could ask for all of 20% of the cap,

and you'd have to just say, yes, may I have another, if he insisted. But the rest of them are in a ballpark. Kaprizov's 27, he has 108 point season he's gonna be worth 13 12 12 12 and a half here it is like it's so funny now you talk about the baseball and the basketball and they're they're like at 400 million and now it's like you know, it's 2024 and Swayman's asking for $500,000 more. And like, oh, my God. The nerve of the guy. Daryl Embiid got literally $300 million. I had to ask Sam the other day.

Like, I watched the NBA a little bit and I was like, who's this guy that just got paid $220 million? Shin Goon? For sure. Yeah, he's famous. Can you have the – The poor man's yoke. You know, I'm taking 330.

You come to me at 328, we got no deal. Yeah. Who are you bidding against? All right, okay. Hey, you said the Connor thing. Speaking of pumping your own tires, I'll pump your tires for you. For a couple of years,

you've been saying that Dry Cidal and McDavid, it was going to be 30 million dollars combined yeah and i would say that dry sidle signing for 14 yeah was an excellent start to that theory for you yeah so 16 mil next year for connor 15 and a half yeah okay yeah okay it totally depends maybe less in toronto if he's generous but some going to feel, let me tell you something, that Connor is going to feel, there's the Edmonton story, but there's also the NHLPA story. Yes. And this is where.

The Sid thing, right? The Sid thing, he gets away with it because he's 37, 38, and it's a different feel. It's a two-year deal. Connor will have a lot more pressure, not just to look after the Edmonton Oilers and his teammates, but to do the right thing too, to not undersell. You've got to drive it up.

To a certain extent, yes. And if he wanted to come at them at $17 or $18 million with a $95 million contract, he'd have every right. But I don't think he'll necessarily do that because uh evan bouchard needs his 10 and nurse is still at nine and a half right and but it is more of a killer contract in the league than that first one mike you know so i i think what my my theory was always 16 14 you know 17 13, 17, 13, somewhere. It does stink, though, if McDavid signs for 15 or something

and then you're Conor Bedard or whoever that's coming up as a big-name center and they go, well, you can't get more than McDavid. Or you can pull a Swayman and say, I don't give a crap. I don't give a crap. Pay me. Pay me what I think the market dictates today. He just won't do that.

He's the last guy in the league that will do that. Who? David. David looked at Sid and went, I'm closer to that than I am, you know, any other guy. He wants to be that. He wants to win. Take less.

He took less on this one. On two teams, it's really hard to be on a winning team. And apparently Gary said yesterday it's not going to be 34. Like we all thought immediately. Expansion? Yeah. He kind of threw a little cold water on it. Because everybody was pretty hot. Gary's thrown cold water on

a lot of hot things. It remained hot. It hasn't extinguished it? No. No. Is Arizona leaving? No. We remain committed. Utah. Next day, bye. Utah. No. Yeah. Is Arizona leaving? Is Arizona leaving? No. No. We remain committed. Utah. Next day.

Bye. Utah. Yeah. Utah immediately. Because wasn't there like an announcement that it was going to be Houston and not an announcement, but like a report. Yeah. Houston and Atlanta.

Is it? Barf. What's his, Anson Carter's like all but said they're getting a team in Atlanta. Like it's a done deal. And what? Two million? Buh. Buh. You mean? like all but said they're getting a team in atlanta like it's a done deal and what at two million but but you mean two billion yeah that's like that's pretty cheap i think we could get two billion i mean yeah gotta be north of that because i think tampa bay was just valued at 1.8 i i can appreciate that there's a a marketplace for billionaires, right,

stroking these checks. But I just don't know how on a day-to-day basis the cash. How you make money. How you make money. None of these businesses make money. Does Uber make money yet? Uber? Netflix, they making money?

I think they are. But yeah. I don't know. Somebody has to somebody has to use real cash to keep the the engine going here and good on them if they want this toy that makes no money and makes no sense like but the thing with those guys is that they believe that the way if like these uber rich guys like i will be the one that will make it work in atlanta i will be the one that makes it work in houston where they don't care about hockey i think it's more i get to say i own a team in the league and that's all i care about you think i don't care if

we lose 20 million a year wow i have 20 i want a friend like that yeah you got a couple you got a few you got a couple i don't get to hang out i them as often as I like. I saw you in Ottawa sitting by Bill Burge or your owner. This guy played golf with Rafa Nadal. He's like, I wish I had a friend like that. There's none in this room. That's for sure. Oh, my God. Well, another show on the books here, boys.

Is that two in a row? Yeah. Well, we're on a roll. That's hot. We've got to hop in. And tomorrow, you and I are on the Leafs broadcast on the television game. And is that a home game that we're doing for the Leafs? Yep.

It's in Toronto. You know nothing. It's in Toronto. I'll do my research in the morning. You're supposed to pay more attention than me. I pay attention. The one thing I told you four years ago, just pay more attention than me. I'm so low, Kip.

I do. All right. Our thanks to Jason Bukala, former NHL head scout. Does a terrific job not only on our show, but on Sportsnet as well. All right, Sammy, JB.

What's up for tonight? More baseball for you? Wanted to watch the Penguin, the new series. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. So maybe start that tonight. I thought that was

a Pittsburgh thing. All right. If you get a chance, download us or watch us on YouTube. Give us a rating and review if you also get a chance. Have a great night, everybody.