Real Kyper & Bourne - Search For Number One Netminder Narrows

Episode Date: January 23, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick it off with the Leafs dissapointing loss against the Canadiens over the weekend during Hockey Day In Canada. Sam discusses his experience in Owen Sound for the events before they dive into John Tavares's play in OT, inconsitstency at home vs. on the road and Ilya Samsonov taking over as number one netminder. They are joined by Sportsnet's Craig Simpson (41:57), who breaks down the Leafs' struggles against teams they should beat, the responsibilities of the bottom line and why it's important to experiment with the powerplay. Later, Sportsnet 650's Jason Brough (1:07:07) breaks down the nightmare situation in Vancouver, why Bruce Boudreau had to go, Jim Rutherford's role throughout and what new head coach Rick Tocchet can bring to the Canucks. Kyper, Bourne and Sam end with a conversation about Flames' coach Darryl Sutter's dismissive comments about rookie Jakob Pelletier's NHL debut.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Ohio. Entirely giving you all you need to know. Nick Kiprio, Justin Bour bourne derrick randale general nick and sammy mckee fresh off of hockey day in canada oh and sound style yeah which left him violently ill but he's back ill that's not something that we can do the next year you went you came back you told us you were coming into work today what a miraculous i it is truly miraculous that i'm here today i sent a text to uh ryan ryan fabro my our boss saying hey man no chance for tomorrow i'm cracking up so you sounded fine

before the show and i just woke up this morning feeling better i don't know if they got some food poisoning or something but boys i was sure fries i was no it wasn't them i swear i won't throw anyone under the bus i saw a fries pitcher and then a following text that said he was sick okay okay Following text that said he was sick. Okay. No, in Wendell. Okay. He came with Wendell. He became a cool guy. Or were you just a super fan? I honestly didn't even drink that much. So I wish I could be like, oh, it's the booze. But I barely drank the whole weekend.

I don't know. Food poisoning is no fun. Absolutely no fun. Did you go this weekend as a star of Real Kipper and Born Sammy? Or did you go as just a super-famous Sammy? Somewhere in the middle, I'd say. I think he went as the townie. Sideways, sort of.

He went as the local townie. Did you wear your Sportsnet-branded jacket? No. I actually wore, I have a jacket that's my grandpa's. It's a hockey jacket from his team from 1958, 1959. And it fits me perfectly. So every time I'm up in Owen Sound, I wear it. It's my own sound jacket, basically. So I wore that the whole weekend. Is your grandpa a gangly giant? Yes. Okay.

Yeah. Basically, we're very similar people. Let's just say that. Whatever monster we created on this show when it comes to Sammy and Owen Sound, I really got the sense that it paled in comparison to what Mike Futa was in Owen Sound this weekend. Because all my reports suggested this guy walked around Owen Sound like he had the Da Vinci coat in his back pocket. Boys, Futa was a popular man. A very, very popular man. It was incredible. He was just, he was in his element. Beautiful to see.

And he had his pop on the bench too, did he not? Yeah, he did. Which was a great thing to see. Family man, that Feuder. I was, I had a, so the last thing I'll say on Hockey Day in Canada is I had a conversation with the owner of the Own Sound Attack, who I know quite well. Big deal. It really isn't that big a deal.

Bob Severs. And he told me a story about Bobby Ryan came into town. Obviously, he's a big alum. He's probably the best player in the history of the franchise for the Own Sound Attack. And they couldn't get a hotel room for Bobby Ryan. There was not one hotel room in Onsen. Everything was booked up. It's a big weekend in the sound.

So he stayed with Bob for the first night, and then he went to his old Billet's place for the other night that he was in Onsen. So he stayed at his junior Billet's uh bobby ryan that's so cool and they were they were so fired up to have him and apparently he went to the fridge was the first thing he did i think the billets made any money off of that they're supposed to get paid yeah but they used to get i think my billets used to get 350 bucks a month to have me there which i would eat in a weekend for sure that was just a no win situation they had no chance to get ahead no zero none at all so yeah so there you go for the record i went to uh a

sports store this weekend to get my son's skate sharpened middle of a saturday terrible idea got recognized by a few people two people told me to say hello and whatever to sammy one to you that's where we are for context of the show that's great perfect great it's about the math we like perfect everything else good you there's just no way you caught any of that football on the weekend and i i kind of watched some of it but i was borderline delirious yesterday boys like i i was it was on the tv but i wasn't really taking it on a trip crushed with the bills out yeah i am yeah i could not happy at all that the catch at the back of the end zone was ruled not a catch which it

definitively was a catch so yeah but that's not why they lost no i guess more than that more than one play i would say that i was very disappointed as well but my big takeaway from that football game is joel burrow is a bad bad man and in a good good way the buffalo bills they are you know it's a cursed franchise cursed franchises kind of stay that way as a you know i love the toronto maple east i kind of know this thing now that they've got this really good quarterback he's now like the third best quarterback in the conference and he says gonna have to go through the other two guys all the time and he may never do it. Heard that before. Mahomes probably better than Allen and Burrow's definitely better than Allen. So you got to go through both

those guys every time. Not great. Do you want to give your cell number out to maybe some Buffalo Bill fans who are looking towards you and maybe a few in Leaf Nation to say how do we handle this disappointment? I think they've been doing it for a long time too.

They lost four straight Super Bowls. I'd say their pain is probably more intense based on that. Yeah, they've had more success leading to heartbreak than the Leafs had. The Leafs have just never. What are you talking about? Four failed Super Bowls. But they made it to four Super Bowls. The Leafs can't get out of the first round.

The Leafs haven't been to the finals since they won in 67. My dad was 12. I just watched the Harold Ballard doc. It hasn't been to the finals since they won in 67. My dad was 12. I just watched the Harold Ballard doc. It hasn't been fun here. Listen, I'm going to say this only once, okay? Oh, boy. At the end of the year, there is one Stanley Cup champion, and there will be 31 losers.

No. Losers. No. That was the case when there was 16 teams in the league. Now there's a bunch of guys who did pretty good too. We're giving out participation ribbons, second place ribbons. You get a third place bronze. I forgot about the era.

I forgot about your era growing up. You didn't get a tinfoil award for finishing 13th ever? Okay. So where are we off of Saturday night and the Leafs? Pretty good first period. Decent lead. Everything pointing in the direction as it should. You are one of the top five teams in the NHL.

You are playing one of the worst teams in the NHL. Just go about your business and get your win. Well, what happened after 20 minutes? The business stopped. Oh, boy. Do you want to hear Sheldon? Yeah, let's go to Sheldon on our first Gippers Clipper of the Week.

Well, we gave them that goal early in the second period and that gave them life, obviously. It put life back in the building. I thought we were fine after that. Probably really up until about the second time out, we were fine. The first

TV time out, the shots were 4-3 for us. I thought we responded well after the first goal for the first little bit. Then there's a couple sequences there, one around the 13-minute mark where they got four or five real good looks on a sequence that was entirely offside. But that gave a lot of life, I thought, to their team and to the game and the emotion in the building and all that. And we struggled to connect passes after that and break out,

so our whole game got disconnected. Are we still in that window where the Leafs just underachieve against lower teams? Was that drawn back in Saturday night? Yeah, tough to say. I feel like when they go out and play really, really well and aren't rewarded with like a big lead, then it's like, well, you know, it'll come.

Like, it's tough to keep the pedal down against a team you know you're better than. And I think Keith was asked about that too, and not to plow through all our clips, but do you want to hear? Yeah, let's go, because this is not something new here. This has been... It's a reputation now.

And maybe we get a sense of Sheldon. Have a listen and listen to his tone, because there is an insinuation that you're still underachieving against teams that you should beat. Have a listen. No, I mean our if that was the case we wouldn't have had the type of first period that we did so i don't think that's the

case at all like i said our team's well aware of uh the fact they just beat two two of the top teams in the nhl just in the last seven days so um that's not at all otherwise we wouldn't have started the way we did but uh you know we lit up for just a second, and they got life. Four marks to them. They played hard. That was a fast and competitive and intense game. It's as loud an environment that we've played in all season long. So there was a lot going on in the game that it was just a good hockey game.

But that's their playoffs. Montreal goes into that game Saturday night, National Hockey Night in Canada. That's as good as it's going to get the rest of the year. It will not get any better than that. You know what's coming even after 20 minutes. Yeah, particularly once they get a goal. It's like, okay, brace for Montreal here.

And so they get scored on by Raphael Harvey-Pinard. I know, it's not a ton of guys on that team that can burn you at this point with Caulfield out and they still found a way. And of course, Josh Anderson. They're playing an American Hockey League team Saturday night. That's the part that bothers me about saturday night

yeah is that it's a team trying to lose who just sat down their best scorer for the season willingly to make sure he's right for next year like they've stated that this year having success doesn't matter but you're right you were going to get effort from them how do you find a way through that and yeah weren't up to the challenge The push in the third period, though, Kipper, when it was 2-2 and they said, all right, time to be the Leafs. Like, they played in Montreal's end for 15 minutes of that third period. Yeah. So, you know, it's there when they turn it on.

Montable played well, too. Montable was very good. His first goal that he gave up to Giordano was, like, if he looks like an NHL goalie on that shot, they win the game in regulation. That's how good he was the rest of the way. He actually sneaky leads the league

in games stolen this year. Like games where his team underperforms the other team, but he manages to steal it. He's been very good in that regard for Montreal this year. It just drives me crazy that the leafs oh they lose to the habs a lot last six times they've played they've won twice yeah yeah so since and part i this is a maybe a bit of a galaxy brain way out there take but it does piss me off

after losing to that team in the playoffs where they know it matters that matters underachieved and they were and they go into this and they still don't want to go in there and kick the crap out of them. They don't play better. I know they're an underachieving team. I know they stink or whatever. You're playing down to your opponents. It's a problem with this team. But with the Habs, it shouldn't be a problem.

You should want to go out there and avenge that horrific loss that you had every single time. Why doesn't it bother you? I don't know. is that fair no no killer instinct again yeah i mean that's what that's what immediately what i think you know it's a firm grasp of the big picture that they can probably play at 50 of their best and get two points they didn't i don't know like they're playing with fire with that though yeah you know the example I used to JD Bunkus we did the Leafs talk on Saturday night it's like if there's something you got to pick up

on the counter and you only use the amount of effort you expect to need the Leafs never play harder than they have to you know like let's see if we can try this hard and get a win it's like well it didn't happen then they turn it up in the third period all right try to take this game back and Montembeau was just really good once they turned it up. Yeah. Dangerous. Then the three-on-three. I'm watching your captain is John Tavares.

He's out there on an extended shift, and he's the last guy back trying to defend. But Morgan Riley in overtime, he does not care what position he plays. No interest in being the defense man. He is a player, one of the three players on the ice, and a good player. But he does not care. You said Tavares is back defending on another rush. Willie was back defending. Tavares, if Mitch Marner, arguably your best overall player,

comes off the ice, 45, 50 seconds, how are you out there still at a minute and a half and you can't skate like mitch marner here let's watch it together for me it's it's well sorry the the actual t winner is yeah you got tavarez is the guy just go back a little further though and just like right now honestly like tavarez should be off he should be gapped up on that guy anyway anyways yeah listen but i don't know i mean sometimes i think that they're okay letting it all hang out on a three on three either we're gonna win this thing on the next rush or we're gonna lose it but it hasn't worked you know like when they have started the Kampf and Lilligren and whoever else,

they've had success, but they get scored on when their best players are on the ice a lot in overtime. Rem Pitlick scores the game winner for Montreal. Yeah, the last time they won, they started the game. Who did they just beat? Oh, it was the Cats. They beat them. Yeah, off of Willie Nylander's finish.

But they started with Kampf, Marner, and Lilligren to start that. They kind of went for the combo of, you know, the defensive with Marner. But I agree. It's too long a shift. And I feel like three on three kind of breeds the long shifts because you feel like you always have a chance to score the game-winning goal. And it's like you take one extra chance and then you're caught out there. And then all of a sudden you're John Tava is trying to defend the goal as the last guy back

it's not a pretty situation no not great but they have typically been exceptional at home did you want to talk more about that kip or no no for sure for sure i was just going to say uh plenty to come up on the show including craig simpson in about 30 minutes and in the second hour of course continuously the hottest story for uh horrible reasons in vancouver uh where they officially made named rick tocket uh head coach uh jason bruff will join us co-host of uh hulford and bruff in vancouver we actually got a lot to go on outside of the leafs here because this vancouver stuff is unbelievable oh and then we can turn it into a little uh daryl sutter stuff and then you can turn it into a little Daryl Sutter stuff.

And then you can turn that into Butch Cassidy in Vegas. What is going on with coaches now? And you're getting a little vocal. Butch Cassidy. He goes by Butch sometimes. Is he? Kind of ripped on Jack Eichel a little bit. He did.

Daryl Sutter on his prospect. Yeah. Jacob Pelletier. Jacob Pelletier. little bit daryl sutter on his uh uh prospect yeah uh jacob jacob belchee see i've forgotten that but that pales in comparison for your head coach forgetting your number and then he didn't right he was just like so dismissive so yes tons to go uh but let's finish off a little bit more on the toronto maple leafs as they now encounter three games this week. Monday, Wednesday, Friday. We love that, don't we? We do.

We do. It's great. And then capping the weekend will be a rare Sunday. What, 5 o'clock start? Yeah. Yeah, right in the middle of two football conference final matchups. Really smart scheduling here by the NHL. Honestly, if they wanted to try every new rule

in the book in this game, they could make sure they could do it. A no-sticks game. No one would even come up in the national media. You think it was bad of the NFL not to cancel going up against Toronto Washington? Is that what you're saying? Yes, the AFC championship game's at 3.05

and the NFC championship game's at 6.30. And the Leafs, they tried to wedge it into five for you. They tried to split the difference. That's really not smart scheduling. Well, it could have been three or seven. They tried. Yeah, they tried. First three at home, big games.

Let's get Sheldon Keefe on what home ice means to him. I mean, I just think we've played good hockey here. You know, we've played a good team game, you know, and even at times when maybe we haven't played well, we found ways to win. We found ways to come back in games and flip momentum and things like that, all things that you want to be able to do on home ice.

You know, so I think it's just a matter of things really coming together for us here. You want to, of course, be a team that plays the same and can play well in both spots, home and away. And we've played well on the road at different times too, but you certainly need to take care of your home games. And we've done that well. And, of course, it's going to be a theme for the week.

I don't know. Are they there where it's like playing at home's a big advantage now crowd noise all of that do you get that sense or there's too many out there that says uh i'll wait for the first round i don't know i they're really good at home and i think that's what should be a point of pride you know and particularly when they're going to be fighting for home ice like make it a place that other teams don't want to go play don't have success you're able to beat them down this is a big stretch here they got five in a row at home coming up five straight and all teams all five teams are between 10th and 20th in the league like not bad teams but not great teams either so

you got a chance to test a lot of things see how your team legitimately looks over a stretch of time at home these are big games they have a stretch of time at home. These are big games. They have a really good record at home. Like, it is, it's definitely, you know, I think they're 17-3 and 4 at home this year. They really do. And I don't necessarily think their atmosphere, like, I don't think that's the main reason for it. Like, I think you're kind of poking a little fun at them,

not having the most raucous crowd at all times it can be fickle sometimes they're there it's a good word sometimes they're there and they're paying attention other times they're cutting deals in the in the lounge to pay for the damn tickets that's what they do but i think of when tavara scores that goal that gets waved off in game seven and i think you know you know, like that building, it's loud. You know, they can find it. You're right. Yeah. So you just need to, it's almost like any laser pointer will distract them like cats in the building.

But you get into playoffs and you say, okay, watch the game. Yeah. You can get a pretty good crowd going in there. All right. Samson off. Pretty good. Again, Saturday night. Busy. in there all right samson off pretty good again saturday night uh busy he probably was a little tired after saturday night only a little more tired than he would have thought yeah a little

more work good enough that's a nice warmer for me yeah that's a great clip a little surprised he's getting the start and they wouldn't go back to Matt Murray here? No, he's the home ace. I am very surprised. He's the home ace. He never loses at home. How do you not go to him? No, I'm stunned.

Stunned? Stunned. Like, I can't believe it. Are you not surprised? Let's go to Sheldon on Samsonov, and then we're going to come out. All right. Yeah, I think he's earned it.

You know, I think the door opened for him here in terms of coming in in relief for us. And when he did, and he's done a really good job. You know, I think he deserved better the other night in terms of our results. So I want to get him right back in here again. And it's obviously, you know, the guy's played really well at home for us.

So it's a good chance for he and our team to respond tonight. To answer your question, I am surprised. But I'm glad. i am i've been kind of calling for this the last little while and both have had ample opportunities i think they need somebody to have a long stretch of this type of play yeah and it will go a long way to make people believers and they're make no mistake whatever samsonov does from here on and whatever matt marie does from here on end they're going into that first round underdogs in that no doubt the only question is how big of a gap can you close to make people believe that you can be the second best goalie in this series and still win yeah it's a great question um you know here's why i'm shocked by it is they do have incentive for matt

murray to be the guy if all things were equal you would like to the guy who you're paying more who you've got an extra year in his contract you've gambled on you would like him to end up as your guy so i'm surprised you know matt murray's last four games he's won three of them he's been a he's a 9-11 on the season save percentage he's really only had two his last game and a half have not been great but it's interesting to me to say you know this is samsonov's now fourth in a row third third in a row plus the other half of the game that he played i'm just surprised that they're saying that's enough for them to go to samsonov over and over and again rather than get murray back in and re-establish yeah i gotta think that four games this week like samsonov he's not playing all of

them right so it's just a matter of now let's just say for argument's sake, a solid 30-plus shots. He gives up a couple. They win 5-2. Do you go right back with him on Wednesday against the New York Rangers, or do you give him the break and maybe look towards the weekend? You know, actually, maybe it's the next clip, but Sheldon talks about how over this stretch of games that you want to in the second half of the season for a guy to start to run with it like you want one of the guys to to sort of establish themselves

and so it could be to your point that okay we passed game 41 if you play well you earn the chance to be our starting goalie i against a team that uh like the new y New York Rangers not to get ahead of the Islanders tonight but against the New York Rangers if if Samsonov does have a good showing tonight I would go right back to him Wednesday I mean even if you have a number one starter you don't play him four times in a seven game stretch so you're gonna get Murray in at some point yeah so I think it's pretty and I think it it would be set up better for Murray Friday against on a Friday against the former team in Ottawa. Let's,

let's go to Sheldon so we can pick up exactly what you're talking about on, on this stretch in the back half of the season. Well, I don't know what the word, I don't know about separating or anything like that, but obviously we're going back with him tonight and I think he's, he's earned it. I think we've talked about it previously.

For me, you know, we were, you know, part of how we were moving the goalies was early in the season was A, managing them coming off of injuries, B, trying to get them both reps and get them in the net after missing significant time from injuries, not having them just sit too long coming out of being injured. And then also that both were playing really well at the same time and then both sort of, you know, slept at the same time. So it was harder to have any sort of separation. But I think we're into the second half of the season here now.

And I think it's important to give guys the opportunities when they've earned it. And Matt will be ready when he gets back in and he'll get his chance to go back with it. But we've got two guys that are going to compete for the net, and we like that. So, JB, he had clearly a few bucks to check in the first half. They've been checked. Now it's best man wins.

Love that. I do like the idea that someone can win this thing now, that it's okay, we've given you both a chance, neither of you has been the guy, so. Wow. What's your interpretation of winning this thing the chance to be the starter in playoffs is that not the win yeah well end of january early february you could right win and then i don't know what it looks like

by then and i can win the first six holes in match play and lose the next 12. That's an option. What happens with a couple of bad starts in April on each of them? Do you revert to what you've learned from January to March? Or are you really basing it on the current temperature

that day? Listen, there's no way to talk this thing comfortable. It's all uncomfortable. They're going into the playoffs with an uncomfortable goaltender situation. Memories of 9-11 and what's... 9-19. 9-19. They've been tremendous.

Yeah. Samsonov's got really nice numbers. We've said it. If you can sit between 9-10 and 9-15 9 15 what's better out there it's not like there's going to be something out there that's better that's what's making it hard to get someone else you're married to it and it it should be good enough if the stars perform yeah and they give you a chance to win that should be enough if the least goalie gives them a 9 12 well then they've got a good chance to win but a 905 they can't even complain if you can't outperform a 905 right now can you complain that it was the

goalie's fault i don't know if the other guy doing 9 30 probably i'll say right now that oh with uh today in clips that will definitely not come back to haunt me but if either the leafs goaltenders or both of them put up a 9 20 in back to haunt me but if either of the Leafs goaltenders or both of them put up a 9-20 in the playoffs the Leafs will make it out of the first round yeah I for sure for sure for sure I don't even know if necessarily that's that hot of a take but I could definitely they'll figure it like I mean Vasilevsky when your goal is good your team wins like oh Hellebuck's good look at Winnipeg's run like Osher Sterkin's not as good the Rangers aren't as good the most heartbreaking thing about last year's playoffs

is that Vasilevskiy wasn't very good. What was he in? He was under nine. In Toronto? Yeah, in that playoff series. He was under nine. Gulp. Yeah, right?

So it's like, how many times is that going to happen in a row? Not many. That's the scary thing. Bob? Anyways. The other theory I have. Love theories. Me too.

Is that right now they see something that is wrong with matt murray as in physically yeah no technically technically okay and he needs time now to work on it six million dollar man the real rebuilding his catching hand you don't think that there might be something technically that they have not liked in the To work on it. Six million dollar man. The real rebuilding is catching hand. You don't think that there might be something technically that they have not liked in the last two weeks, three weeks with this guy? Yeah. Because everybody talks about it. For sure.

No. High glove. Five holes. Let's get Mike McKenna back here. It's all for me the way he holds his his glove so is it fair to put him back in there when you're trying to maybe work on something technically good point you know like when i'm just golf analogies today but you do go work it out on the range for hours before you're supposed to take any swing thought you know changes to the range i'm sure it's similar

in any sport you know it's got to be in the gym before it's on the field of play so that's a good point i could see that happening yeah and try to get him right give put him in a chance to succeed position to succeed in the late part of the year and let's just uh hope samson samson off can hold the fort he's been very very good so far old ilia all right uh a little tj brody update out of sheldon. Hold on. Quick question. Yeah. Do you think Kyle would want Ilya Samsonov to play really well so they could get a cheap starter? We've had this debate before, but a cheap starter by the end of the year.

Yeah. And then they can move on from Murray and make Samsonov the guy. Is there any chance they see Samsonov as the guy? I, yes. The answer is all Kyle cares about is somebody getting the job done. Yeah. But as far as now Samsonov.

Prefer it to Murray in the end. Running with it. Like who is a better upgrade than Matt Murray right now? Where would you go? Yeah. Camp Talbot will be available. Farmov or whoever. Yeah.

We've. You don't want to switch that. No. So. Okay. Yeah. I don't see see it i think they're married to this they were committed to it in october and they'll be committed to it in april sam montembeau by the way i recently decided i want to get timo meyer i think you're just yeah just throwing it up on the wall. Oh, I am. You're right with Montembeau more than Meyer.

Meyer, I think, is a legit difference maker. See, Meyer's in the Beau Horvat family, is he not? I think he's better. I think he's more valuable probably than Horvat. He is. He's got that big qualifying offer, but I'm wondering if it's like cock in the Emmy where you can say, we'll give you a longer term deal if you sign for less. He was chucking them yesterday with- His fight. With Conor Clif yesterday with this fight with the national league yeah he was going yesterday and he held

his own surprise he's bigger than i thought he was he is he's 6-1-2-100 or something vision the leafs getting him with big assets in terms of assets i can see it but i just can't see it fitting in the future so i don't know nick but i want him to be a leaf that's all yeah to me yeah he's such a perfect fit for the lease right now in terms that you it's kind of one of those things that you're going all in on this one i think he leads the nhl in shots or last i checked he was top three anyway kind of figure it out after kind of thing at this point is that a crazy thought kipper you're looking at me like a it's not a crazy thought but i don't think it's a realistic thought right now it's first in the nhl in shots tied with pasternak 219 like you're talking about

uh well first of all you ever even dream of being in the conversation, we know that you have to give up Matthew Nyes. You know that. Yes. Okay. And I don't, are you guys there? No problem. Yep.

Done deal. Good, good. Gone. Well, listen, I've looked at the far enough away. They don't have to worry about him that much.

My boy, Anthony Petrelli on Maple Leaf hot stove wrote about some of the guys who came out of college and the success they had their first year out of college, the impact that they were able to have. And unless your name is basically kale mccarr the impact is almost non-existent for most of these guys maybe some power play points but you know like it really is fanciful to think the knives is going to come in and you know be a point per game guy in the top six

so if it's not now for the leafs then when when? So yeah, you kind of have to come to grips with the fact that it's, there's going to be big costs here and you know, you need to make a move, a big move, a Timo Meyer move. I think if Matthew knives comes in and can be as noticeable as, um, uh,

McMahon, McMahon, I think that would be successful me too me too yeah you'd love to have him down there banging away for checking i agree bobby mcmahon has uh he's got 20 shot attempts in four games for the leafs it's been great and again noticeable for me big can get in he's around the puck great dryden hunt was on waivers before that game ended yesterday they were like yeah we like mcmahon wow cleared by the way hallelujah he cleared yeah he can't just keep running it through the system eventually people catch on with hunt yeah see i still i still think he's an NHL player. He is.

Yeah. 13th, 14th forward. Yeah. Just not 12 when your lineup's supposed to be good. Right. Yeah. No, I get that. I get that.

And the fact that our just missed the All-Star game by this much Pontus uh oh homeburgers back he didn't get in hey he didn't get in we didn't vote him in that's why they won't publish the data because he definitely did he qualified wake up people but he's back people but just to go to your point about um you got pontus and you got uh mcmahon and that's sounds like pretty much a two-thirds of your fourth line come the stanley cup playoffs i feel like i'm playing the part of you does that sound like a fourth line to you that was better better wow better i'm not saying it's perfect yeah and i don't know who that third guy's gonna be but these two guys if it'sid camphor these two guys have a chance to be in the lineup in game one of the stanley cup final i can see it and they look to me a little

bigger a little heavier do they have a mean streak like cory perry or maroon. Will they ever? No. But this is better than right now hunting Aston Reese as two-thirds for me. And who else? I never know what's a drop in your voice. The line of Kampf with McMahon andahon and aston reese or whoever camp and engvall mcmahon forget who exactly it is is uh has controlled the play when they've been out in their minutes together they've had something like two-thirds of the shots and more of the scoring chances and everything so you're right they have controlled play in a way

that you would like your fourth line to whether you know the names or not they've had success so far okay let's go to sheldon on getting uh punt us back in the lineup well humber just bringing him back in and you know we uh obviously the illness sort of hit him pretty hard at a time where he missed four or five days away from the rink and away from our team and then we didn't have a lot of practice time and stuff to get him back going. We were taking a day off right at a time when he needed to get some volume in, and it just made sense to get him down

and get him some proper reps and play lots at the AHL level. But knowing he was going to come right back in terms of Hunt, that's Kyle just managing the roster and all those kind of things but we like a lot of a hunt as well and we'll see what happens here today um take it from there that's the gm guys i'm the coach so he was sick hey holmberg my god four or five days away wasn't like me not like the great sam mee. Didn't come right back. This time tomorrow, we could be wishing that they dressed you tonight. I don't think you want that.

Not a lot of pace to my game, boys. Fellas, I got out in a rink yesterday. Went for a little skate, hockey puck, skating around. I got to tell you, it felt amazing. I need to play some real hockey, but a little disheartening. A little disheartening that i'm so much worse than i once was oh buddy wait till you get to my age you're like did i really play like i used to be able to do this like like i know like one of like 700 in the best league in

the world are you kidding me right no it's uh goes quick goes quick but you're going tonight i'm i'm gonna go to the game tonight you're going to the game tonight very excited yeah you're not you're not taking sammy and i no i'm not unfortunately it's going to be my son and my wife will be there and uh yeah listen i'm going to be wearing the islanders gear today i'm i love the leaf. I am under legal obligation to wear Islanders stuff tonight. I need everyone in Leafs Nation to know that. I'm not on here hating on the Leafs because I'm a

secret Islander. We're blaming you. You know how the game's going to start. Your kid's going to be right into it and then like 10 minutes later, it's like what's that? Oh yeah. What's that? You think I'm going to get 10 minutes later, it's like, what's that? Oh, yeah. What's that? You think I'm going to get 10 minutes in on it?

It's a speaker. Now watch the game. He knows Austin Matthews, 34. I'm really looking forward to you getting chirped by some real Kip Remborn. Oh, what's that all about? That jersey. Somebody's coming after you big time. I know.

Guaranteed. Looking forward to it. Are you, you got the reservation in the Platinum Club tonight? We're going to be the sure, sure, is it called Sure Club? Yeah. The Sure Club? Don't take your kid to the Sure Club, okay? Do not.

Do not. Talk about blowing your mind for your first experience in the professional arena. What we uh give us uh an expectation of the islanders i gotta tell you that i just i see them slow can't score yep can't score a little old and slow uh frustrating you know like a lot to like on the back end you got dobson and pellick and pellich and sorry uh pullick and pellich and bay. Sorokin's great. But up front, it's like Barzal and then a bunch of veteran guys, Nelson and Lee and Peugeot and Parisi. And they just, yeah, they're not able to break games open. They play at a bit of a plodding pace.

Tough game for the Leafs. Very playoff-style team, the Islanders. So getting to the front of the net shouldn't be too easy. Barzal not even going to the all-star game. That's your star. That's your face of your franchise. So the NHL picked the guys, right? I don't know.

I know. But we don't believe that the NHL said, hey, Islanders. We can assume that. They called someone and said, who do you want to go? We can assume that I would imagine that they would want to go we can assume that uh i would imagine that they would have liked to have barzell there i see i think they probably called lou and said you know what do you think who which one of your guys here nelson lee who's gonna be barzell and they said i bet lou said you're not taking that barzell kid not the way he's been playing this year

you're not rewarding that there's probably been a precedent set On that a few times Yeah I'm thinking they don't like Barzel's first half or Lou doesn't So they send the guy who works hard Saw some So he goes to the Bahamas for five days

He just must be crushed Last week I saw that there was some fire Lou chants At the old UBS arena Were there? Missing the playoffs oh ruined last week i saw that there are some fire lou chants at the old ubs arena we're there yeah missing the playoffs uh an option real possibility an option like is it is that a card that lou can play still these days i think lou is in a position where maybe he needs to push like they do have that playoff style team that it wouldn't shock me if they upset someone in the playoffs like they just got to get in type of team but you know you got to get in you got to win a lot of hockey games to get in they need to

make a move to ensure they got a chance here they're fading here like they're you know they got their three points back at the last spot and the penguins have played two less games than them like it's heading in the wrong direction they need points desperately fancies are ugly too like they're just two five and three in their last 10 maybe uh florida back in it maybe lou would be so not kind to trade mayfield to the leafs now we're talking you would need the leafs to go or sorry the islanders to go on a significant what's the opposite of a heater freezer would you trade sandin for Mayfield. Yes. Yeah, I would. I would.

Shoots right, though, doesn't Mayfield? Yeah. Yeah, I would. Eh, maybe not. I don't know. That's a tough one. One year? If you're going to maybe get him back,

but I think this is the last year of his contract. He's impactful Mayfield to me. He's huge. Can you check on that? Yeah, I think. Is he UFA? I think he is. So maybe I wouldn't do it. No, he might have another year.

I think he has another year. I think he signed an extension. This is the last year of a five-year contract that he signed in 2018. And what's his number right now? 1.45. Oh, my God. No, you're paying for that. It's like the Hagel thing, right?

Yeah, but this is the last year. Right. What do you think he's going to get next year? More than that. Four? Probably four and a half. When we went to that game... Yeah, probably four, four and a half. The Leafs can't afford that. When we all went to the game, they played the Islanders

last time we all went. I just remember looking at Mayfield and thinking, that guy is a monster. The Islanders last time we all went. And I just remember looking at Mayfield and being, that guy is a monster. The Islanders are huge. He is a monster. Like Anders Lee, Brock Nelson, like they are big fellas. Yeah. See, I just go back to... 6'5", 225.

I just go back to what Manson meant to Colorado last year. Yeah. As good as Colorado was and as the feeling was this was gonna be their year they still went out and got a guy like that right i also genuinely think there's animosity with lou and kyle and is lou gonna send him scott mayfield no chance he will if he gets his firstborn aka sandin that was for wow and maybe a second rounder i i don't know what he would hold them hostage for right before right but it would be it would be if you want them take them but it's going to cost you here i may deliver you a stanley cup

love mayfield all right, we're big fans. Okay, let's take a quick break. Craig Simpson, former NHL or two-time Stanley Cup champion, and he's up next on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Smart takes on the biggest stories in sports. The Fan Drive Time with Ben Ennis. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

As we get set for tonight's clash between the New York Islanders and the Toronto Maple Leafs, let's welcome in Craig Simpson, fresh off. Still a great tradition, Toronto, Montreal. As far as the outcome for Leaf fans, maybe not so much, Simmer, but wasn't it hard to sense that maybe this is the best that it gets

all season long for some of those young Montreal Canadian players? Yeah, you know how it goes. You get an opportunity and you try to do your best with it. I thought, you know, Montreal, it doesn't matter where they are in the standings. You get a Saturday night against Toronto, it's always seemingly a good contest. They play with pace. They play with energy. There's excitement in the building.

So, you know, to have a game that they got down on and didn't have much of a good first period on home ice, Toronto dominated for the most part. You know, it's a testament to their ability. I thought the Belzeal line from, you know, the little Val line really gave them some energy, scored a big goal. And, you know, at the end of the day, it'll be a disappointing loss for Sheldon Keefe and the Leafs.

But if nothing else, at least continuing to chip away at some points, even on the games that they do lose. What are your thoughts on what's going on in the crease right now, Celia Sampson? Can I just follow up one more? Yeah, please do. And I don't mean to cut you off. Just in terms of Toronto and Montreal, Simmer, and I know that you can just sit there and say, for a lot of us as well,

that it's January and it's kind of maybe a little of a lull here. But, you know, when I look at, like, blown leads that the Leafs have had over Montreal, and correct me if I'm wrong, Sammy, but eight of the Canadians' last 11 regular season wins over the Leafs have come from coming from behind like when does it stop being just a mid-January kind of blimp in the in the schedule to hey Sheldon what's going on here with blown leads against teams that we should be beating yeah you know there's there's definitely some validity to that and it again is always know, I always say during the regular season,

you're taking your lumps to learn what it feels like, what's happening in the game, how do you change it so that it doesn't happen at the most critical time. You know, I think go back to just a week and a half ago against Florida when the Leafs on home ice were down. I think I said before the comeback, you know, this is a game where Samsonov comes in and shuts the door and the tide turns and you look back on that and say, remember that.

That game in a series, if that's a playoff series, might win you the series when you're down and it feels like the other team's got it in the bag and you come back and win. So I think sometimes when you're playing a non-playoff team or you know maybe a rivalry that just one team has had your number those things can happen but i do think you have to learn from them and you have to try to identify what happens in the game i thought you know if you analyze the first period least one all the loose puck battles i i think the possession time in the offensive zone,

they were two minutes of possession time more than Montreal had. But in the second, you kind of forgot the hard work it takes to get that possession. And that is the lesson, I guess, Nick, as you're saying. When do you sort of learn from it? When do you stop it? You have to be able to identify when that happens and be able to rectify it and change it and you know it's not unique to the leafs higher

seated teams that that stumble a bit against games that they should win i think it happens league wide like you know that it's exemplified from a team that you follow so you see it and you react to it but it's not a new phenomena i think it's been happening forever and that's where you sort of look at those teams that can separate themselves like boston has this this year for that matter and and not have those let downs on on those kind of nights you know and the that goaltending situation i was getting at there it's an interesting one now that they're going back with Ole Samsonov here for a third straight start, three and a half straight games for him. You know, how do you feel about the idea of maybe trying to find a starter here

in the second half of the season where they kind of wanted to give both guys a look early? Is that what's happening? Yeah, I think when we talked about this maybe, I don't know, three weeks ago or so, I just said the one thing I would not want to be as the coach of the Leafs going into playoffs is not sure who my guy is and having to make a decision every night of who's got the net. I think you've worked it appropriately.

You've kind of done the half and half. This will be just the second time all year that samsonoff has started three in a row um he did it once when murray was out and shalgren was the backup so it's not like he's had the opportunity yet to to be three straight i know he came in and relief so this will be four straight games he's played in. But that relief game, as I just mentioned earlier, was a big one that had real value. And he was a spark. He shut the door.

He didn't allow anything and allowed his team to come back. Came back with a good win against another tough team. I thought he deserved probably a better result in the Montreal game. I don't think you pin that game on him. So I like it, quite frankly, Jason. I think you're not just gratuitously giving just for the sake of, well, let's see what he's got. I think you're rewarding him with a good effort. You get Murray continually to work on his game, and he's going to get the opportunity to bounce back from being taken

out of that game earlier. And no reason why he shouldn't have to wait another game. You know, for me, if Samson off, this is a busy, busy week, but it's also a great week to get into a rhythm. So if he plays great tonight, I'm going right back with him against the Rangers on Wednesday. And then, you know, make your decision off of that game again I don't think there's any harm I don't think there's any issue of playing four straight games for the for the condition that these guys are in and I think it's a worthwhile task to say he's had great success at home he's on a good little run let's see what we can get out of him I quite frankly think it's the

right call we're joined by Craig Simpson, Hockey Night in Canada analyst. So Simmer, you've played the game, you've coached the game, you've been behind, you've been part of coaching staffs. Let me ask you when it comes to a goaltending situation where you may have two guys kind of battling out.

As a coaching staff or you individually, would you ever sit there and quietly cheer for one particular guy because you really believe at the end of the day they will give you a better chance to win? I don't think there's any question that, you know human nature, Nick. You've got a gut feel of who your guy's going to be. I don't think if you put the honesty rope around Sheldon, you've got a guy that in his mind thinks he's probably

going to have to give the range to. As I said, the most trying thing with our entire coaching staff, ultimately it's the head coach who makes the decision. You're having discussion with your goaltender coach with your assistant coaches get a consensus of how you feel and what your mindset is on each guy which one do the players trust too that come playoff

time you know more than anything on the bench what it means to have a guy even if he struggles a little bit for a short period if you've got a guy that the guys respond to and all of a sudden he makes a big save and they dig in and say, let's get this one, let's get back in this game, he's going to shut the door, that means something, too. That's another little extra edge. So I don't think there's any question that the coach will have in his mind a hope. Maybe this is the stretch, Nick, where it keeps saying,

I think the upside guy is Samsonoff to go on a good run and prove that he can be an everyday guy. I know the historical, look at the history for Murray. He's okay coming in as the rescue. He came in as a rookie and went on the cup run. The second year, it was Fleury's net until he stumbled, and then Murray came back in and went the rest of the way. So I think historically there's that comfort there as well.

But, you know, I wouldn't be shocked if you see a good game tonight again by Samsonov that you might see one or two more starts in a row to see if he can get on a roll and and i would like to have one guy stand out in front of the other before you get to playoff time so that so that you're not sitting you know with a bit of a tough decision of who we're going to start tonight in game one of the stanley cup playoffs. Similar the Leafs fourth line, like third and fourth line has really been interesting over the past couple of years because they've done something other teams hadn't in that they've

kind of gone with veteran names that you know, that are out of their prime. We've had Simmons, Spezza, Clifford, Thornton, Marlo, all these different,

you know, name dudes. And right now, Bobby McMahon and Pontus Holmberg, who are absolutely not names, look like they may be a part of the bottom six. Do you believe that inexperienced young guys like that can have the impact they're looking for

over the way that they've gone in the past? I do. I think you look, again, historically, go back to those Penguins of 16 and 17, you know, whenllivan took over he had guys that he trusted in the american hockey league and put them in roles uh at the end of the season and then through the playoffs uh to just bring energy play hard check you know have enthusiasm and i think that's really important and and the common denominator is let's face it the guys in those lower bottom six roles have to have speed yeah I mean they have to have a physical

element but they have to be able to bring the pace of the game up and keep the pressure on and I said I can't remember how many years ago was it when they signed Thornton and uh and Simmons what three years ago now? My view on that was great from an experience standpoint that the team needed it a bit. My first thought was, come playoff time, if I'm Sheldon Keefe, I know I can't play him.

I'm going to lose the matchup. It's going to kill a rhythm of our team. I think that really did play out in those scenarios. McMahon has the opportunity now for a bit, and he's proven that do the simple things. Nick, you know in that role, you just got to be on a positive note. Whether you score a goal or not isn't always it,

but so many times now the third and fourth line has spent 35 seconds in the offensive zone, and then the Matthews line has spent 35 seconds in the offensive zone and then the matthews line has changed on the fly you know those are the kind of things that you just need and keep pushing the pace of the game so you don't have a black hole between the top two lines and the bottom and you know the opportunity is there for them and i think you got to have a little bit of trust and the trust comes from even though Holmberg doesn't have a whole lot of experience at the NHL level, he's an experienced guy that the guys trust. And I think the key is having Kerfoot in that bottom six as well,

that instead of wasting a top six spot, he's another guy that can give you some offense but also gives you a great all-around game in that bottom six. And just identifying your role and just uh embracing it and and just feeling like this is this is what i do to help us win a stanley cup and be locked in don't be that guy that just uh is temporary he thinks he's temporarily on the fourth line just waiting for the bump up because yeah he's looking like why am i i going to get my chance if I can score here. No, play the role and play it hard. And I think you're starting, you know, look over the last, well, there's Sheldon Keefe years here.

There's no question that he has more trust in his third and fourth line this year than he has at any other. And because of that, Nick, because you do have more of a defined role and guys who seem comfortable playing it, excited for the opportunity and bringing energy because they do really say, hey, this is a chance for me to stick on this team and have an opportunity to play. Adam Graves, Joe Murphy.

Yeah. Right? Yeah, absolutely. You got it. And it's the push. It's keeping the pressure on. And I've said it more in games this year than I have in the last three years, for sure, that they might not have scored.

And they've actually scored a little bit more maybe than in the past. But I can remember doing games where you're going, that goal from the Tavares line came from the third and fourth line, having two good shifts in a row that was followed up with two more. And it's in the back of the net. That's what good teams are. And that's what good teams bring. And that has been missing,

especially come playoff time, you know, Tampa and Boston gets that from their third and fourth. And that's been a difference maker in those type games that the Leafs haven't yet been able to get over come playoff time. Martin Jelena was the third on that line. He was the winner in three straight game sevens. Man, oh, man, was that a fourth line for you guys.

Yeah, yeah. And, again, honestly, they did score some big goals, but often it wasn't the goal scoring. It was just they hemmed top D pairing, they hemmed Ray Bork in, and then the top two lines would come out and score the next shift. It is really, you know, you look at the cup winners. I was amazed last year, again, because you didn't know some of the guys in colorado too you know and camphor and obviously um you know you've got some guys veteran guys playing um in a position where they get their

chance they know this is the role and they're comfortable with it but there was a prime example of their third and fourth lines played way above what maybe the expectations were but they bought in and they all knew their role and it was it was clear that that's all they had to focus on and they were able to handle that kind of responsibility and adam graves hit like a truck and no that's the other thing i remember about your cup run is that uh adam can turn around and one day score 50 goals but in that instance he was a fourth liner that uh that helped win a stanley cup in that situation one more for me simmer before we let you go and that's just uh a kind of a go big or go home when i see the leaf power play and they i know they went oh for oh just oh for two on saturday night but yeah i mean now

we're watching morgan Morgan Riley step back into that and have a prominent role, once again, on the number one power play line. But from that to off of it to five forwards here, in the next few weeks towards getting towards a trade deadline or that first round, what do they need to do to lock in that this is a dangerous power play and you know what you're getting because it's consistent? Yeah, you know, consistency is it,

but also part of that consistency, Nick, is the willingness and ability to consistently change too. Like not necessarily personnel, but different looks. And I've noticed that something doesn't work for a game or so. They try to move guys around to different spots. And I think that's going to be critical, especially when you get again into a series where you have the same penalty-killing unit

for potentially seven games in a row. You can't be ultra-predictable and be in a space where you do the same thing all the time. You know, albeit you look at Edmonton and it seems like Drysdale and McDavid, just those two guys just are almost a guaranteed goal. And I don't think you see that yet with the Leaf power play getting in that much of a rhythm. I don't think they've been able to find the open looks for Matthews nearly as effectively.

Part of that might just be trying different things, but it also has a lot to do with the defenders against them. But I don't think there's any question. This is the time of year when you get into that 48 to 60 range where you go make your decisions on how we're going to do this. I don't think you abandon the five forwards. I think there's a use a use for it so you got to use it at times to keep it sharp but there's no question if morgan riley's going to be that guy you got to find something positive to happen for him i mean he needs one to go off somebody's rear end the defender and get a goal

and get the zero off the board and he needs some confidence. He needs some positive things to happen here soon. Simmer, it's going to be a busy week for you. Four games, the Toronto Maple Leafs, right up until Sunday's matchup against the Washington Capitals. Have some great calls, and we look forward to your appearance next time on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show.

Thanks for doing this. Thanks, guys. Take care. Have a good week. Thanks, Simmer. Two-time stanley cup champion craig simpson i love the idea about a fourth liner who wants to be a fourth liner who's like i'm here to be a fourth liner i'm so pumped to have this role i'm gonna do my best as a fourth liner not like i'm here but if i have success i'm actually joe thornton i'm gonna play with you know matthews and marner like i'm actually a first or second liner.

But just for now, I'll do this. If I remember correctly. That's what happens when you eliminate the one-dimensional, you know, heavyweight. Right. Well, that's what you talked about last year, Kipper. I remember with Spezza and Simmons. That there were guys who were playing on their fourth line, but they're not fourth liners. Yeah. And it feels like a demotion for them to be there.

In all honesty, they could be in the league 15 20 years they haven't got a clue how to do it and that's not being disrespectful to jason spezza it's actually a compliment he is because he played on the top line his whole life i'm so good yeah he's just put in a spot where it's like looking around the room going seriously no one else can do this i gotta do it okay i'll do my best and he did for the most part he did it jason spence it was an unbelievable leaf trooper did everything i asked of him but it's not a natural thrill for him to go out there and get punched in the face and block a shot for the team you know if you're 26 years old and you're bobby mcmahon you're, shoot it at my neck. I'm just happy to be here. Absolutely.

Just a follow-up on the power play as well. You sent some interesting stats on Morgan Riley. He just does not shoot the puck. Morgan Riley, in 100 minutes of power play time this year, has, Sammy, did you see the number? No, let me have it. Six shots in 100 minutes of power play time. Oh.

He has attempted 18 shots, which is one every five minutes of power play time. Well, it's not good. That's an amazing stat. Six shots on net. For a guy that's at the top. Scored 21 year. How did that happen?

Maybe that's a better question. Zero goals, six power play shots in 100 minutes of power play time with i understand that you're out there with amazing players so you're gonna defer but you gotta throw the odd fastball so they don't see the change upcoming yeah he's just pumping 95 mile an hour straight down you play the flanks, right, between Matthews and Marner, and it's clear that it's overwhelmingly on Matthew's side. You know, even if it's 50-50 or whatever, it's too much. It's too much. He's got to shoot sometimes.

He must look it off. With the threat of Matthews and Marner on both sides, there has to be some good, decent looks that you look off, that you don't take. Definitely. You can't tell me that everything's blocked for Morgan Riley on the power play. Not with Matthews and Marner on the sides.

Well, and if it is blocked, you need to open it up. He has no confidence to put the puck on that other than a wrist shot maybe. Mike Green with Alex Ovechkin is one of my favorite. The way he played, I didn't love his overall game, but I loved the way he played the point with Ovechkin because he'd show shoulders that way and shoot this way. He'd show arms this way, turn, like fakes, deception.

He would create lanes and eventually, oh yeah, Ovechkin. When it was there. But that's Morgan's job. We all know that Matthews is a shooter and Marner can facilitate but it needs to be think of yourself as a magician on stage doing misdirection

you gotta do a bunch of stuff before you throw the ball to the you know where you give it to Matthews he just I don't know like you just wish that he would I love power plays that have a bomb at the top i don't know it's because maybe growing up in the cave like i just i've got used to that sort of thing i love that sort of thing having and i know the analytics don't love that do they no the

point shot no but the threat of it still needs to be there for me and i think that's why the power play doesn't struggle at all times but there are times where it sputters and there's times like it should, shouldn't it be higher in the league than it is, but are they top 10? Also, you're the only team in the league with $40 million, over $40 million in four forwards. You're damn right. It should be at the top of the league and all power play.

And it's, it is 10th in the league, but to me, it should be one or two easily. And maybe a big part of that is because the defenseman at the top doesn't shoot it. If you're a PK against the Leafs, it should be like Ono Marner, Ono Matthews, Ono Marner, Ono Matthews. And then all of a sudden, Morgan Riley's coming down Broadway with a clean look because the threats are typically at the flanks. Some interesting names in the top 10 for power plays. Ottawa's fifth. Buffalo's fourth.

Kings, ninth. To me, those teams should not have power plays ahead of them. They hated Shabbat to start the season on the power play. I mean, he must have caught fire. Rasmus Dahlien runs the Buffalo one. Drew Doughty runs the LA one. You know, Tampa's up there because of Hedman. Or Sergachev, sorry.

Kucherov. Kucherov, yeah. Feeding. And then the Oilers have, you know, they have. The special teams, to me, is something that's concerning. Going into the playoffs. The power plays killed them. You know that, right?

I do know that. And their penalty kill, going up against the Lightning in the first round, it's got get better it's not good this year it's 17th in the league yeah I was going through the um a couple articles today and potential names for the the Maple Leafs to add and I skimmed over a couple of like offensive d-men because really like is that what the Leafs need but then I kind of stopped myself at the bottom of the list. Like, it is an area they could get better. You know, like John Klingberg could make a difference to the Leafs power play, which has been a debilitating. So could Chikrin.

Yeah. You know, like, I don't want that. I want a physical D-man who can play in the top four, which is Scott Mayfield or something. You know, I would love Timo Meyer, but boy, an elite offensive D man wouldn't hurt. A lot of boxes to check for Kyle Dubas.

With no cap space. With no cap space. Okay. Jason Brough's going to join us out of Vancouver. Oh boy. Coming up because this is a story that just continues to flame. Yeah. And I don't think it's dying down with Rick Tockett,

named head coach yesterday. Do we have the clip of the mispronunciations? When are we playing that? We'll play that after. We'll play that after, bro. We also have Daryl Sutter on his prospect that he played. Jacob Pelche. Josh Norris, as we talk about Ottawatawa out for the year max patcher ready

re-injured an achilles tendon tear that is just devastating to carolina and uh sammy great news zach hyman first star of the week in the national hockey league i know that warms your heart it's really happy for the guy all of that when we come back after these words you're watching and listening to the real kipper and born show breaking down the top stories in the nhl every day the jeff maris show subscribe and download the show on apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's get right to it. Yes, sir. The Vancouver Canucks. The Canucks.

Can you imagine if this stuff was happening in Toronto? I don't know if this is much better in Vancouver, but yeah. Yeah, you're probably right. It'd just be the same. It'd be relocating the same fire and making it slightly larger. All right, let's welcome in Jason Brough, co-host of Hufford and Brough in Vancouver. So they are 100% on top of this. I think Brough actually broke the news of Otakut's hiring date.

Is that right, Brough? Hey, boys. How's it going? Yeah, I did kind of um i was actually it was funny i was looking back at my uh my texts um and the first inkling i got that this management group wasn't exactly thrilled with bruce budro and the way he coached, guess how far back it goes. It goes back to March of last year. Is that good? March of last year.

I got a text from a guy, and he said, I think they're going to can Boudreaux. And I was like, really? Do they know the fans love this guy? And the Canucks are actually winning games. So, you know know that was my first inkling that um not all was well in that relationship and then a million other things happened that uh made it pretty clear that you know bruce budro and he's just not jim rutherford's

um type of coach and in hindsight they should have just dealt with it but there are two reasons i think good reasons and i'm not sure you know it might be a bit of both why boudreaux was still the coach this season number one um there is a reason to believe that perhaps ownership didn't want to pay three coaches because then they would have been paying travis green boost bruce boudreaux had a bit of a buyout for his contract and then they would have had to of course pay their new coach and the other reason is that it would have been really tough to fire Bruce Boudreau because he did have success down the stretch in Vancouver and Canucks fans loved him and what if they did fire him and they bring in a new guy and the

Canucks show who they really are. And then they're like, wait a minute, why did you fire Boudreaux? So in a way, like the Boudreaux-Bruce-there-it-is story last season made it very difficult on management. That also being said, management did not handle this well. God, I don't even know where to start with you, but I'm going to try. Does that make sense, boys? Like, does that make sense, that whole story?

It makes sense, right? Yeah, it plays out perfectly, but what we're not supposed to see is how obvious it is. Right. That's the difference. Exactly. So who do the Vancouver Canucks hold accountable for this kind of what should be a reality show is it is it um aquilini the owner or is it jimmy rutherford and why never alvin who's the gm of the team and oh okay okay you know i all right him right here's that guy here's i'm watching yesterday and there's Patrick Alvin in the middle, right?

In the middle going, I've made a coaching decision. And I was like, no you didn't. Oh, you did. Did you? Oh, wow. You did. Where were you the last six months? Yeah, that was funny.

You said it was almost like he made it be like, you know what? I woke up this morning and I had to make a decision. I was like, well, it's lucky Rick Talkett was already in town. Why didn't you just tell us how hard it was to convince Jimmy Rutherford of this? Right, yeah. But anyways, where do the fans go first for accountability? Well, I mean, Rutherford for me. Ownership is always a factor in all this but i think um

here's here's how this a scenario that could have played out differently guys um rutherford could have for lack of a better way of putting it lied and said yeah we love budro especially if he knew that he was going to be forced to bring him back or especially if he knew that you know for the two reasons that i that i knew that he was going to be forced to bring him back or especially if he knew that, you know, for the two reasons that I laid out, it was going to be tough to fire him, right? So bring him back, give him support publicly, and then guess what, guys? Have you watched the Canucks play? They look like one of the worst coach teams I've ever seen.

Truly, it's a disaster. Yeah, like the Bruce there it is would have died out, and it would have been like, hey, Bruce, fix the PK. Bruce, you know, like, why are the Canucks surrendering five goals every game? Like, that's the thing about all of this. You can believe two things. Like, and this is what I believe.

Number one, the management handled this badly and was unfair to Bruce Boudreaux. Number two, Bruce Boudreaux deserved to be fired right you can believe both those things right yes no it absolutely makes sense so then where does the owner fall in this because if rutherford wants to fire him it feels like the story everyone says is like oh but aquilini didn't want to pay three guys or whatever so you know is it ownership meddling is the fan base spinning some, any resentment there? Oh, of course there's resentment there, but it's all, you know,

it's hard to pin down with the exact words because we never hear from the owner. Right? Like he's a public figure, but he doesn't do press conferences. He, for some reason or other, has stopped tweeting this season. It seems a little odd, but like, we just don't know. So unless I'm, you know, you know, like hack their emails, then I'm probably not going to do that because it's wildly illegal. But I don't know what's being said behind the scenes.

I always think like, you know, if you take a job as the general manager or the president of hockey ops, like you have to know what you're getting into. And sometimes you're going to have to deal with an ownership situation. And the decisions that you make, you have to own them. And if you don't want to own them, quit. Right? Walk away from the job. But like re-signing JT Miller, there's this big thing like,

well, it was ownership, I bet. Well, okay. I mean, even if that's true, it was still Jim Rutherford and Patrick Alveen that were in charge when JT Miller was re-signed. And, you know, I mean, that contract, like, do you know how many people in Vancouver were like, don't do that? It was the same people that were saying, don't trade for Erica Branson. Don't sign Louis Erickson to the long-term contract.

Don't trade for OEL, right? And so those people, so part of the reason there's so much anger in Vancouver, and it reminds me, frankly, of the Leafs pre-Shanahan. There's all these people saying, don't do this. And then they do it, and then they're like, I told you so. So maybe you should start listening to other people and stop doing dumb stuff because so many of the Canucks' issues, and this is really frustrating, like they are self-inflicted, right?

They're all self-inflicted. If they would have just done nothing, they'd be in a better position. Like if they had put, like, I don don't know a rock in charge of this team um they would be in better position because they've made so many self-inflicted mistakes we're talking to jason bruff who does a great job covering the vancouver canucks out west uh jason do you buy into the thought that uh rick talkett was going to come in and straighten JT Miller out and he's exactly what JT Miller needs and blah, blah, blah. I think it's part of it.

I think it's what they're hoping. You went and spent $55 million on a guy that needs straightening out? Are you kidding me? Yeah. I mean, I think that's part of it, but I don't think that's the lead thing. I think the lead thing is can Rick Tockett teach this team how to defend? Like, I'm doubtful about it because I don't think they have enough players with, like, just, like, the instincts to play defense.

You know what's funny is, like, a lot of the whipping boys in Vancouver, guys like Lou Erickson and Brandon Sutter, those two I'll single out especially, like they weren't worth their contracts and it wasn't a good trade for Benning to go out and get Brandon Sutter. You know what those guys were? Great penalty killers. They were defended. They were great penalty killers.

Like they weren't, you know, whoever was coaching them whether it was willie de jardin or travis green like they put a ton of defensive responsibilities on those guys like brandon sutter would constantly go out there against the best players and he'd be given that job he was a right shot guy that the connects had been looking for um to win face-offs on the power play or on the pk forever and they haven't found that guy and you know you got all these guys you lose the Canucks have been looking for to win face-offs on the power play or on the PK forever. And they haven't found that guy. And, you know,

you got all these guys, you lose, you lose Sutter, you lose Erickson, you lose Tana Vin Edler. And you go, why does the PK suck? And you're like,

look at the guys that are out there. They're not penalty killers. And they got a PK that's rolling up 66% or whatever. It's pathetic. Yeah. 66%. I mean, imagine every time the ref's arm goes up there's a 35

chance the other team's about to score in the next two minutes it is a terrible equation so i guess my question with some of these decision making is you know you mentioned rutherford is your guy that's kind of taking a lot of the heat for this you know a lot of it feels like he hired so many people this off season or the, in the last little bit here and none of them had experience, right? All Veen Castingay is a Granado. You know, even the Rachel Dory situation, like all these people who hadn't had extensive runs in hockey before, to me, doesn't that quintuple the pressure on Rutherford?

Cause you're saying I don't need anyone who's done this before. I've got it. You know, I will be the guiding light. And to me, the, the hires amplify the pressure on him because he has said i will teach them i'll be the veteran guy to lead the way instead of you know basically saying i need some help here you know what jim rutherford didn't have experience in working in a canadian market fair enough where where you throw out comments about your coaching staff, and guess what?

People are going to look into that. You know, he was in Carolina for a long time, and I mean, I'd love to go to a game in Carolina. It looks like fun, but it's not exactly a madhouse for hockey. You went to Pittsburgh where you had a lot of success, right? There's some good reporters and some dogged reporters there, but you want two Stanley Cups, right? And also, the team he took over there, there you want to do Stanley cups, right? Like it's, it's,

and also like the team you took over there, there seems to be this narrative that he turned this team from like nothing into, into like the Stanley cup winner. Like, yeah, he made some good moves there. He made some trades.

He found a whole line with Kessel and Bonino and Hagelin. Like those were great trades. It brought in guys like Trevor Daly. He did good work there for sure. But didn't turn that team from the worst team in the NHL to a Stanley Cup champ. They were just underperformers in the playoffs. It got ugly for him at the end

too. He was tired. He was burnt out. People weren't happy with him. He wasn't happy with their board. It got ugly at the end there for him. Yeah, no, it did. Actually, Bourne, I wanted to ask you a question and you won't come on our show anymore. So I wanted to ask you a question. I'm exclusive. He's exclusive.

Put them away at night. I don't blame you for not coming on our show. I wouldn't come on our show, but I have to, um, when the New York Islanders hired Barry trucks, because I know you follow the Islanders real closely, when they hired Trotz, were there people out there that were like, not even Trotz, to make this team play defense? Because I often look to two examples of run-and-gun

or defensively irresponsible teams that have, you know, they made coaching changes and they made philosophical changes. Like Dallas was running gun and was really fun, but they didn't defend and it cost them in the playoffs. So they, they dialed it back and they learned how to defend. And I think that's in their DNA. Now, right. The Islanders were terrible defensively before trucks.

I think they were the worst defensive team in the NHL. They bring him in all of a sudden they got structure there. They got mine and belief. There will be people that say like like, Vancouver couldn't do that just because they don't have the personnel. But I'm just wondering what they were saying about the Islanders before Trotz went there. I actually got in some trouble around that time with Islanders Faithful

because I wrote an article that I thought that Doug Waite was maybe the worst coach I had seen of an NHL team. The Islanders were dysfunctional defensively i mean they there was absolutely nothing going on there and then yeah within years you know trots had turned them into he wanted jack adams there for you know a team that was exceptional defensively so you know there was personnel turnover in that time too but certainly a coach has a huge impact on it to me the two biggest ways to judge a coach are penalty kill and defensive stats whatever you prefer expected goals against whatever it may be those are the two measures for me and the islanders got way better there and fairly quickly i i don't know if the canucks

can do it but they can be better than worst in the league yeah i don't know if they can do it either um i because i i don't i don't yet really know uh how good a head coach rick talk it is like i know he's done some good work, but I also know that he's got a losing record. But on the other hand, his rosters haven't been that great. Like, I don't think many people would have had that much success with Arizona. So, you know what? To be perfectly honest with you guys, like, I'm kind of –

the drama has been fun at times, I suppose, and I suppose at times it's been decent for ratings. But, like, I just want to watch hockey for a bit now. The Canucks became so predictable. Every game was the same. Oh, they gave up five goals. The PK stinks. Oh, they gave up some shorties too.

Well, that's fun. And it was just like they were making no progress. In fact, they were getting worse. I want to see what Taka can do with this team. Whether it works out or not, I think it's going to be interesting to watch. There are times when I think Rick got Arizona overachieve. Yeah.

And I think he can push a few guys, but one more for me, Jason, before we let you go, is where does this, does this get better for Jimmy Rutherford? Like, I just, I'm with you a little bit moving forward here. You got JT Miller, who's got an untradeable contract right now. You got Bo Horvath on his way out. You've got Brock Besser, who we think is on his way out. Garland may be looking at a buyout.

Ekman Larson's been a disaster. Myers, we think, is on his way out. Please stop. Please stop. Please stop. Please stop. Please stop. Please stop. Please stop, Kipper. How does Jimmy get himself out of this mess here?

Can Rick buy him time? Where's the end game for Jimmy Rutherford to turn the perception of Vancouver Canuck fans? Yeah, I mean, they have a massive challenge ahead of themselves. I'm doubtful they can do it but I've said a billion times about this team gee I hope I'm wrong about this I rarely am but you know I hope I'm wrong but they say like you know it's funny they they have this whole thing where they're like uh I know Canucks fans want a quick turnaround and the market's like no we don't we just want it done right.

And I think in some ways, I think they think a quick fix is like three months. Because Jim Rutherford seems to think that he can get this team turned around in a year or two. Those are his words. He had an exchange with Thomas Drance in not this press conference, but the press conference the week before, where he asked Drance,

he was like, well, what do you think is a quick turnaround and Drance hit three years. And Rutherford was like, Oh yeah, we can do that. Like I thought you were going to say like three weeks or something like that. And he was like, no, like he's got to turn over this roster. He's got to trade. Like you say, like there's so many bad contracts. He couldn't do it last off season. You know, I think it might loosen up a little this offseason,

but I think it's still going to be tough to move out money. It's going to be expensive. They don't have prospects. They're capped out. They're not a very good team. Like, does that seem like a team that can be turned around in a year or two? I don't think so. Yeah, when you see them lifting the cup in five years or whatever it is,

it's not many names left on that roster. Hughes, Pedersen, Demko. No. years or whatever it is it's the not many names left on that roster hughes petterson demko no well and and the other thing too is like there's this i don't know i was maybe a bit unfair to say this but like people seem to believe that hughes and petterson like those are the only two elite players that they're going to be allowed forever right like go find other guys don't you think it changed like colorado had mckinnon and you know ranting in and landa scott and then they found the car and it was like a game changer you know like they need more elite talent which is why i want them to get first round draft picks not waste their assets their limited assets on rec Project. Go and fix it and fix it the right way. I hope I'm

wrong, guys. I'm sure it'll be easy to get Pedersen on a long-term deal after all of this. Oh, my God. He'll be playing for Moto before he's playing for the Canucks in a few years. Oh, my God, guys. It's always fun. Can you guys go pick on the Flames or something for next little while?

We got Darryl Shutter. Leave us alone. Just leave us alone. We're true. But it's the Jack Stednika years now here in Vancouver. So, all right. Darryl said,

buy you some time there with his comments about his prospect. Don't worry. Yeah. Thanks, bro. We appreciate it. Appreciate it. Jason Brough.

Bye guys. Thanks. Co-host of Halford and Brough. Bleak. It ain't getting any better well it's really hard and you know Vancouver Canuck fans what's the word I'm looking for rude, mean

vicious they'll come back when they're good again not sure if it'll be before that love what he said about Boudreaux about how it's like yeah you can be can be sad, but they stunk. And they lost every night with a horrible penalty kill and no structure. It's like, yeah, two things can be true. 100%.

Deserves all the sympathy he's getting. Also deserves to not be running the team. God, that was sad on Saturday night. That was sad. Oh, my God. All things. Holy hell. It's like watching The Young and the Restless, for God's sake.

It is. Agree. It was kind of, turn the channel. I don't want to see a grown man cry behind the bench. My mom was like rooting for the Canucks. She's like, they got to win it for Bruce. I'm like, oh my God. Yes, Bruce.

Fire him. Get leave. That's Bruce to deserve. He doesn't want that either. He should have been fired months ago. Right. He should have been spared this indignity. We can all go through our careers.

I didn't deserve to be on waivers that March in 1997. Right. They treat people like crap sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. We're a family. We're a family until it's a business. You can't cry.

Well, Bruce, for Bruce, it's the end of a 47-year career. Bruce, there you go. And make no mistake, it's the end of a 47-year career, unless he's an assistant coach somewhere. You don't suppose he's going to get another job. Maybe that's part of the reason why he's crying is because he knows it's done. That's it, but I'm wondering if. Just do that behind closed doors.

Don't do that. He's an emotional guy. He can't help himself. I'm like everybody else. I love Bruce. But there's no crying in hockey. I agree. I stole the baseball line.

Yeah. But he'd be the perfect guy to be an assistant. Go communicate with the players. Check in on guys. See how they're doing. Report back to the head coach. Can never happen. Rick Bonus.

He's Rick Bonus. Can never happen. For the same reason why they never hired Rick Tockett here as an assistant. Can't have a guy that's bigger than the head coach or is drawn to media, fans. Can't have your most popular guy on the bench not dressed. Your assistant coach. Who says you can't? No, you can't.

Can't just. You can't. Can. He's a head. Ask a head coach if he wants that. He's a head coach or nothing. I agree with Kip. says you can't? No, you can't. Can't just. You can't. Can. He's a head. Ask a head coach if he wants that. He's a head coach or nothing. I agree with Kip. But you know what?

The Toronto Maple Leafs don't let their assistant coaches say tickety-boo to anyone. Oh, they don't let anyone say anything. Hey, and Bruce Boudreaux, after all these years, is going to keep, you know, you got to keep your mouth shut now, Bruce. You're going to tell Bruce Boudreaux. You think Bruce would rather do that than sit on his plastic-covered couch wherever Oh, you're an assistant coach couch now you can't talk yeah sure you tell him that it's a condition of being a blue jacket yeah okay like who's a as high

profile coach of as bruce boudreaux is that's ever gone and been an assistant does that has that happened like i'm just asking this way if you can remember one off i don't know i got nothing like i don't think that's something that really happens let's see al arbor beside uh no doug wait okay we were kidding when we said daryl sutter uh caused a few waves with his post-game comments on a prospect their first round draft choice yeah eric francis wrote a rather scathing column, justifiably so, on how it lacked humanity. And it was this kid's big moment. First round pick makes the NHL, gets in his first game. I don't know about humanity.

That's a little strong. It's all tears now. What, did he deprive him of water on the bench? He deprives him of a lifelong goal. Oh, my God. That's a little extreme. Humanity. Maybe.

Let's listen to the clip. Let's do it. Let me make sure I got his phrasing right. Tell me if this is lacking humanity. What did you think of Peltier's debut? What was that? What did you think of Jacob's first few shifts in the NHL? Jacob Peltier.

What number is he? 49. 6 minutes, 35 seconds, 13 shifts, average 30 seconds a shift. Got 43 seconds in the power play, played 5 minutes, 52 seconds, had one shot, goal, and one hit.

Beyond the stats. What's the best thing you learned just from being on the bench and seeing what the veterans on the team are doing. It's the NHL. 21 years old. Got a long ways to go. Okay, that's just being an ass, but that's not. That's being an ass. So the headline is that it lacked

human decency. Okay. It's still strong. It's disrespectful. It's crummy. It's still strong. It's disrespectful. It's crummy, for sure. It's crummy. It's disrespectful. But, you know, for whatever reason now,

we're in the era where we need to just air dirty laundry out in public. We show everything on Instagram anyways. It's all show. It's just a show. That's what Daryl did there. Put on a bit of a show. I think he's firing back some people who've been hurting his feelings and he's being sensitive. Because everyone is like, this guy should be. He's hurting his feeling. I think the's firing back at some people who've been hurting his feelings and he's being sensitive

because everyone is like, this guy should be... He's hurting his feeling. I think the media had been saying this guy should be called up. He's ripping it up in the American League. Why isn't Pelce... Why doesn't he get an opportunity?

Your team can't score. And then he calls him up, gives him six minutes and... Well, my opinion... Yes. It's why we're here. Daryl did that for one reason. He's talking to one person. Old Jacob.

No. Not Jacob. General manager? Bingo. Bingo. That was for his general manager Brad Treeliving who my guess is told him to

play him and he didn't want to. Wow. Yeah. I mean, that would be pretty big slap in the face. He says he's a kid. All of that was just to tell somebody who told him to dress him and play him when he didn't want him in the lineup. And then if you're the person who told him to dress him and play him when he didn't want him in the lineup and then if

you're the person who told him to dress him and play him be like how about you don't embarrass the guy who you didn't play you gave him six minutes in his debut now that's just me from afar yes i am that is my why are you so pissy 12 years of being around pro hockey is telling me that that was not a message to the kid. I'm just using you as an example here of don't tell me who to play. That's interesting. And that would make a lot of sense. It would make more sense than just randomly being nasty about a kid who made his NHL debut. There's a reason behind all of that.

Now, let me also say, it's hilarious. It's hilarious to be like, sorry, what number was he? That's one of the all-time soundbites to me. And the thing is, like, this is what he does. Remember when somebody asked about Johnny? About his own players? About Johnny Controles. 500th game. He's like, I hope it's a hell of a lot better than his 499.

He just does. This is him. I didn't think it was that bad. It was. It's mean. It's mean. It's mean. It's the National League though, fellas.

And I'll tell you what. This is where Daryl runs the risk of the room with some young guys, you run the risk of losing them. Yeah. Right? Of being the guy whose game has passed you by and you don't know how to communicate with younger players and you pissed off all our prospects.

It's just, yeah, they tend to look after each other still that's never going to leave our game they kind of watch each other's back they don't like that you know they don't like the way you did to the kid you know what palchay said about it he told me i played a good game that's what he said so sutter clearly went behind the scenes and said hey you were fine you know i i overstated out there and I didn't mean anything by it. I thought you played a pretty good game. I was talking to somebody else. Right.

Right. Don't take it personally. You're going to be great. I believe what I said, that you're young and you got a long way to go. That's all good. But just know something. You know, don't take it personally.

Yeah. I wonder if that talk. Hasn't on our show, Eric Francis said that when he's nice to the media is when he's the most pissed off. When he's the meanest to the media is when he's, you know, the happiest with the team. I think that's about wins and losses with the team. You know, he'll come out after a loss and say, actually, I think we were pretty good. Think Daryl have any tears on the bench for his last game like bruce no i think what would it take to make daryl sutter cry he's

gonna literally ride on a horse out of the arena he's going on the bench beside him for his last game just rides it down the hallway so we got remember how i asked that question about coaches assistant coaches yes or head mark crawford somebody tweeted me he Or a head coach. Mark Crawford, somebody tweeted me. He's a head coach forever. Mark never. Mark, not even close to, like, Boudreaux.

The popularity of Bruce Boudreaux. Jacques Martin? Nah, not even close. Larry Robinson? Well, listen, Bruce may be the most

popular, famous coach ever. I'm just saying examples that people have said to me. Yeah, yeah. Since I talked about that. People with more wins include, what, it's Al Arbor and Joel Quenville maybe than Boudreaux? coach ever. I'm just saying examples that people have said to me. Yeah, yeah. Those are good. People with more wins

include what? It's Al Arbor and Joel Quenville maybe than Boudreaux? Ever? Not many guys can get away with a mustard stain on their tie, you know?

Some. He is one of them. Oh, whatever. For sure. It's just endearing. It's like, ah, it's Bruce. Are we going to play this funny clip?

No, save it at the end. Okay, okay, okay. We'll save it because we've got to go back to that one. Okay. Let's go to, speaking of coaches hard on their players, Butch Cassidy in Vegas on Jack Eichel.

Let's have a listen. Well, Jack just hasn't been the same driving force for us. He was at the start of the year on both ends of the ice. So expectations are not being met from Jack, assessing his play. He needs to be better for us, you know, especially we're down a few guys that create offense for us. So he needs to be one of the drivers. As for defensive turnovers, we just talked about the first goal

was a direct result of that. Man, that's right adam eh speaking of things that you could have said in private you know the one thing that stands out to me i love it by the way keep it up coaches you know cassidy can go to vegas and say that about his 10 million dollar player but can you imagine like sheldon keeps saying that about Matthews or Marner right now? And what... Same words. He did it this week. Earlier this year.

And we talked about it for a week and a half. And the story that it would create. Oh, you're right. About the division and the coach and the star. But this market drove Sheldon to go apologize or backtrack off of it. Did it not? It was awful.

Right? Yes. And now, like, it not? It was awful. Right? Yes. And now, like, it's gone now in Vegas. It's a one-off. We'll say, though, it does confirm some

of Buffalo fans' complaints about Eichel. You know, like... Being overrated? Well, not overrated, but maybe plays when he wants to. A little bit of a prima donna at times. That could lead to overratedness.

Okay, yeah. Hasn't scored in five games for them. One point in five games. Yeah. You know, that's... My thoughts on Jack Eichel are very well documented. You think he's a punk? Yeah.

I thought he was a punk. He's just got a lot of catching up to do. Seems a little immature. Yeah, that's right. But he's also like 28 or something. Right. 25 now. I don't know what he is.

It held back his growth. Yeah. Just being awesome all the time from youth. I don't know. Sometimes you don't get the, you don't get a guy calling you out in the media saying you're falling short of expectations. But like Vegas made a all inin bet on Eichel. You know, like patcher Eddie out.

You know, they cleared the way to make room for this guy's salary and what he's supposed to do. What's he, a point per game or a little better guy? You got to be real, real good for that money. Well, speaking of out for the year, patcher Eddie, Josh Norris came back after, what, 38 games only to figure out that he needs major surgery,

I guess, to fix his shoulder. And now Max Pacioretty ruptures his Achilles tendon just before training camp. Before training camp. Comes back. What, three goals?

Three goals in five games? Three goals in five games. Three goals in five games. And then blows it out again. Oh, man. And just basically handling the puck below the goal line. Not taking contact. Not in a puck battle. You know where my first thought went on this?

Who is the doctor? Who okayed him? Who is the doctor? Yeah. Who okayed him? Who is the doctor? What did he do that the same thing happens? Yeah. Like, that should never happen. Without contact, same injury. You're right.

Six games later. What they do to that sort of stuff, for the most part, is they use, like, a synthetic weave to keep the whole thing together. there's a mesh and it's it's supposed to be almost bulletproof yeah interesting and it's like he took his newspaper elastic band from that morning was like this should hold i don't know who the doctor was but like that's awful man i feel i don't know would you go to that doctor no i mean so i tore my MCL training camp in the American League, went down and played, rehabbed for a month and a half, got it ready and tore my MCL a week later type of thing,

thinking that it was good to go. I really sympathize with these guys who put all their belief and trust in the doctor and say, you tell me when I'm ready. I don't know. You tell me when I'm good i don't know you tell me when i'm good to go and he got the green light yeah now did he need more time for it to continue to get stronger was it as strong as it ever should be or did they miss out another few weeks or a month did they bring him back too early difference would have made a difference yeah or not i don't know i have no idea yes i mean i mean i don't know how that injury is supposed to

heal and maybe you're right if it is a synthetic material maybe they'll say there's no more healing to be done do it that way maybe they maybe they perform something different backyatomy yeah no i know what you mean i don't know yeah i have no idea but that's that's the first place you're gonna go to is did i get the right advice or kainsey like this is a team that with cop aspirations i was like this is our one thing our one thing that's gonna put us over the top here from past years an extra score like this is some nastiness too but patcher eddie's contract he signed a massive seven-year deal did he not uh in in vegas and is he on that last of it?

He is. Last year. So think about him now. Okay? If he comes back successfully and scores like he started to, he might be looking at another $7 million guy. He might be another $6 or $7 million. How old is he?

33? He is. 34? I think you're 34 okay he he probably has three years at another five for sure if he could come back and score fairly you'd give him five and a half per okay yeah now six per uh coming off two injuries to the same achilles tenon what's he gonna sign i'm not messing up my cap you can go play for someone else Coming off two injuries to the same Achilles tendon. What's he going to sign? I'm not messing up my cap. He can go play for someone else. You know what I mean?

And I'm not trying to be a hard ass. Just my own opinion where I'm the GM. I'm just not rolling the dice on a 34-year-old whose Achilles has snapped twice. It's not where my risk is going. So I see your point about the difficulties. Let's make sure we get this clip in here. Okay. We got to roll it back to the Bruce Boudreau, Rick Talkett,

Jimmy Rutherford fiasco on Sammy found this. I have no idea where he found it. I will give a shout out to my good friend, Vic Palladio. This really shows the growth of hockey south of the border. Let's have a listen. Former Washington Capitals coach Bruce Boudreau has been fired by the Vancouver Canucks. The team announced the change Sunday, less than a week after president of hockey operations Jim Rutherford said major surgery was needed to fix the Canucks. Rick Tukid was hired as Boudreaux's replacement.

Well, she got Rutherford right. You know what's funny is like how much time we sit in here before we have to say a name. How many times did we confirm that it was Brough and not Bro today? I don't know. I'm the worst. But the point is you get right before you go on air. You always do. I do.

I do. With Max Lapierre last week, you literally asked me 40 times. You're like, Le Penche Bleu? Le Penche Bleu. Le Penche Bleu. Like, we're getting work on it. I get it. You don't go out there and just guess all these names.

Sometimes we get it wrong. But not eight times in one clip. If your audience doesn't know either, what does she care? She could have said different names entirely. I do have her later on in the hour doing another broadcast with the Boudreaux and stuff. If you'd like to hear. No, no. Yes, of course.

We do not. Okay. Okay. No, we do not. We've had enough of the poor lady. No, yeah. Leave her alone. She does improve the Boudreaux pronunciation.

No, we're good, I guess. The idea that you can get four names wrong in a 30 second clip. That's, that's tough. Took it. On the Canucks. names wrong in a 30 second clip that's that's tough to get on the canoes the canoes kill me because you don't have to be a hockey fan to know that a canadian is colloquially called a canuck canuke colloquially colloquially canuke damn it we're like where would you pick that up if you even look at the spelling of it right there's no e on the end. There's no double O. Okay. Stop picking on her. Hey.

Colloquially? There it is. Oh, man. You mispronounced something while we were making fun of her. Excited about the big game tonight. I'm very excited about the game tonight. Yes. No, less so about the game and more so about the experience.

Do you remember your first NHL games? I do. I wrote about it in my book, Undrafted. Very cool. Which is still available yes go get undrafted it's great i really enjoyed reading that and yours is coming out when uh february 14th available for pre-sale now penguin publishing first game ever saw maple leaf gardens paul korea i swore the rest of my life that he had a hat trick in that game went back and looked

at it last year zeros across the board no way see i swore Luke Robitaille scored a hat-trick in a game I went to, one of my firsts. Yeah, he had like one and two or something. Yeah. I don't know. He's just a kid. You're like, that player did everything. Guys, remember all that. I remember Paul Kria. That was right about that. Part of my book is that I'm also a drunk, so I remember everything.

Alright, our thanks to Craig Simpson. Our thanks to Jason Brough, who gave us all we needed to know about Vancouver, and then our thanks to, what's her name? Sammy won't even tell me her name. Friends who we're talking about. The woman who said Canucks. I'd like to thank her, too.

It's not embarrassing. And thanks all of you for watching, listening. Give us a rating and review. We'd love to hear from you. Thumbs up on YouTube channel. We're back tomorrow. We'll give you everything you need to know about the Islanders and the Leafs. Have a great night, everybody.