Real Kyper & Bourne - Skating Around The NHL With Shane O & Adam Oates!

Episode Date: December 5, 2022

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee begin the show recapping the Maple Leafs' OT loss to the Tampa Bay Lightning on Hockey Night in Canada, how much they miss Morgan Rielly's impact on the blueline, and what's the identity of the fourth line. Then, former NHLer and co-host of the Missin Curfew Podcast Shane O'Brien (41:42) weighs in on Jacob Trouba's physical presence for the New York Rangers and how he feels about St. Louis Blues goaltender Jordan Binnington's antics on the ice and head coach Craig Berube's putting his netminder on blast. Then, former NHLer Adam Oates (1:06:08) discusses the difficulties of maintaining any type of streak in the NHL, the importance of up-and-coming players learning how to skate with the puck in their hand, and how many goals Auston Matthews needs to score to have a successful season. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

according to my lineup season two is it really episode number 42 that's actually a lot of surprises that high i can see it right here nick kiprios justin bourne derrick brandale frank the tank and our very own sammy mckee hope everybody had a good weekend. Wherever you're watching, listening, Sportsnet 590, The Fan, Sportsnet's YouTube channel, Sportsnet Now, subscribing on iTunes or Spotify. We're glad you're here. Give us a rating and review. Hit the like button.

We love all of that. Send us your social insurance numbers. Credit card. Yeah, whatever you got. Information. We'll try our best to sell it. Make some money on the side. We're doing our best out here, man.

Help. We are. We are. Hope everybody had a safe weekend. It was an entertaining one. Yes. Did we not, Justin, get a look into the crystal ball at maybe Tampa Bay, Toronto, round two

out of what we saw on the weekend? Yeah, definitely. It was exciting to see a team I would say the contrast from the San Jose Wednesday night game or whatever night of the week it was to Saturday was really satisfying to see a good team toe-to-toe I thought both teams played pretty good good game it was and again for just the thought of if I told you way back when no Morgan Riley or Jake Muzzin on the blue line. Or Brody. Brody. It's almost the forgotten guy. I know.

He's back now. He's skating though but to tell you that 25 games into the season we'd be watching tampa bay and toronto in tampa bay and the leafs holding their own i i don't think we would have thought that that would have been possible yeah i agree it's like they've evolved to a team that you trust to play defensively to hang with the good teams to do the right thing so different look at it for sure i'm surprised that we saw you know mac hollowell for the fifth game they got connor timmons waiting in the wings and you know i think they've had success with their lineup and didn't want to tinker with it too much the big mac sammy are you okay with everything or is there just a part of you that goes, okay, but, and here's the but,

six straight overtime game losses. How can that be? Not with the skill that they have. Those points that they've given up in the first third of the season that you will not get back when it's all said and done. Is that any part of you scratching your head yet again um they don't have three on three in the playoffs actually it's a good point that's a bright spot so that's good that is really good most ot losses in the league boys

boys i said it after they lost that game that we went to against the isles it's just at this point it's full-on yips is it just yes it's yes i love the yips assessment it's yeah it's not and you know how i feel about the pond hockey point but you think it's ridiculous well i just think it's just it's goofy right now to promote something that you would laugh right out of your most important time of the year in the playoffs. Like, you would never, ever, ever think that this would be a good alternative to end a game in the Stanley Cup playoffs. We're all in agreement on that, correct? Yeah. So, why do we need it over 82 games? Because people pay their money and they want to

go home with a decision so no one wants to go see yeah in the middleness then look can we just purgatory i would love three on three for 10 minutes wouldn't you just that's my dream why don't we get get the guys all in a circle like they start nfl games and and toss a coin this is and everybody gets to go home And everybody gets to go home. And everybody gets to go home. Leafs are getting tails a lot. I'd love to say that this at least involves some skill. And I don't know.

Maybe the Leafs don't have the horses for this kind of match. They've lost. So I'm looking at the standings here now. And the Leafs have played a lot of hockey. They've got three games. They've played three more games than the Bruins. And they're four games back of them, right? So the Brus have played a lot of hockey they've got three games they've played three more games in the Bruins and they're four games back of them right so the Bruins have 40 points they've won 20 of their first 23 hockey games which is just sickening but say the Leafs had won three of those overtimes they're one point back I know they're three games but they've played

through but like this is gonna matter and we talked about it before the show that it's getting ridiculous it's gonna matter it's real points now if you're two and four or three and three, it's not a huge deal. If you're 0 and 6 or 1 and 6, it's a big swing. They've left six points on the table here. And they. So. Go ahead. Let's just get it out of the way and talk about the overtime because it was 20 seconds long.

Bad turnover. Murray should have it. Anything else? No. Yeah. There's a ton. Okay. There's a ton.

But before we do it then if we're gonna i was gonna start off with an overview of the game dessert what's that just start with dessert and talk about it let's go to the three on three yeah okay let's go to shelving keep for our first kippers clipper of the week on three on three okay well it's it's important because it affects the standings right so i mean obviously we haven, obviously we have been talking about it, working on it. This is not one we're going to overthink. I mean, obviously we can't give him the puck back. And then, I mean, we need to save there.

Matt knows that, and he played a great game. So, you know, we'll let that one slide. So we're not going to overthink this one. But obviously, you know, overtime makes a difference in the standings, especially the way it's been going for us. So, he all but said, hey, Matt, I know you've been awesome, but that goal sucked, buddy. It just was a load of garbage, Matt.

You need to be perfect. Yeah. I mean, he didn't want to make it a story about him being critical. He's like, eh, he's been awesome. He's been awesome. But yeah, I mean, he shooted at him and he didn't catch it. You know what I found rather interesting in that little Kibber's Clipper? Huh?

That he's willing to say Matt Murray's name, but he wasn't willing to say the name of the guy that can't give them the puck back guy. Oh, yeah, yeah. Who was that again? Austin Matthews. back guy oh yeah yeah oh who was that again uh austin matthews so we don't want to mention that austin by name can't give up the puck right i mean obviously we can't give him the puck back and then who sheldon who that's a coaching ism isn't it to like paper over the mistakes of guys by being like a week i don't know i think there's

a number of guys that probably their name would have come up you hate matthews eh no i don't hate matthews i don't hate matthews there just seems to be a little bit of protection on 34 yeah that's all and that was another example of it and to me as there should be okay i'm not arguing whether it should or shouldn't i'm just k... I'm here all day, I guess. Kipper, we saw the week-long referendum when he threw them under the bus. You can't say it. You can't say it.

You can say it behind the door. You can come in the first thing you say. You say the coach can't criticize. Yeah. First thing you say when you're behind closed doors, what the hell was that 34? You got to be way more hard on the puck. You can't go to the media and say that.

Say it to him. But there was a week-long referendum on him scolding his stars when he did it anyway so i you know the it's it's a bad put the ot in general is gross like sammy made the point that you could tell they had like practiced it that week i don't know if we ended up with a chris cuthbert clip but it's like yeah he's like oh they actually practiced it this time. And they bring it back and they have some structure to it. And then Matthews throws that absolute pizza. I just. It's so bad.

I mean, he's back. He's skating backwards by the time the guy shoots it. He's back. And there are so many times that we've watched various teams where it's, I would rather take it back in our own zone and then give it up it just seems for whatever reason that the leafs think and maybe matthews and marner got busted on one what two weeks ago i three weeks ago wasn't there an overtime when marner had a turnover the one where it went right up the middle i I think it was Vegas. Vegas, right?

Could be right. Riley Smith. It just seems like there is this feel that we have to end it here. Yeah. And just the patience to regroup. Yeah. I hate that look by the way. I know. I hate it.

But you're right. But if you're in three and three. When you're when you gain the zone and three when you're when you gain the zone and then you see nothing and then you pull it all the way back to your blue line i think it's just a horrible look but i'd rather have that one than turn it over you're right it's like i agree i don't like watching it but this is three and three there has to be some strategy you kind of wait for your way in it It is like a wait, wait, wait attack. And they're always kind of, I don't know, halfway poking, prodding.

Like even take it to a shootout. Yeah. I like your chances with Tavares. I don't even know if they're good at shootouts. Have they gone there this year? I don't know. I mean. They haven't had a shootout yet.

But like Willie and Tavares, Marner, Matthewews just to throw back no curvert no kerfoot no kerfoot actually last year they he scored a shootout winner for them against washington i want to say last year yeah was he the 38th shooter where they at in the team yeah so this is going back to uh mike wilnerism uh he thing he loved to say is that they could stand to be a little bit more chelon. You know? It's like, that overtime was a little too non-chelon. Honestly, this is what I...

I feel like they think they're the most skilled guys in the world and they don't have to try that hard in three-on-three and it ends up in the back of the net immediately. I think that's fair. Okay, let's go to Sheldon Keefe on 60 minutes and where he thinks maybe this got

the Leafs not the extra point. I thought we played a good hockey game. Guys played hard. We scored good goals at key times. I thought it's difficult. Our penalty kill gives up two there

in the third period but i thought penalty killing was outstanding outstanding all game um you know they get one right at the tail end of a four one three and then because we take too many penalties especially those back to back to start the third our penalty killers are exhausted and the last few seconds there we have to use guys we normally wouldn't use, and that one ends up costing us. But aside from the penalties we took, I thought guys played a good hockey game, gave us a chance to win on the road, and the bounce back with a huge power play goal to ensure us to get a point, that's big.

So it was a good effort from our team. So it was the Kucherov goal he's talking about holmberg got caught out there and uh no the uh not the kucherov one the one that colton scores at the side colton that's right and there's yeah there's hollowell holmberg engvall caught either in the middle or on the other side of the rink yeah hollowell made the guess that the puck was going to go behind the net and kind of started a little bit of chaos so yeah uh who took the penalties was that bunting as the net and kind of started a little bit of chaos. So, yeah. Who took the penalties?

Was that Bunting as well? We had those Bunting stats on penalties. This guy, do we have this in here? Bunting has been on for, or he has taken six more penalties than any other Toronto Maple Leaf, but he has also drawn eight more penalties than the next highest Maple Leaf. He's involved in everything with the officials yeah but let's not forget the ask on bunting is different from almost any other player in their lineup he is the one guy willing to go rub his nose into someone else's business or at least get engaged in that kind of look. And we don't see anybody close to that in that lineup. So eventually, when it's expected of you

and the referees are looking for it, it's easier to pull him off the ice now. Yeah. Yeah, he's taken more penalties. He's still drawing quite a few, but you're right. When you consider that part of when he's going to do his next contract that's part of what he's involved with he is a s disturber he's he's in the middle of things so yeah i guess you kind of take the good with the bad with bunting in that regard um overview of the game for you did you

like keith's assessment i i thought yes i did i did like his assessment i i thought the guys played hard um the one thing that is been noticeable which continues to be noticeable for me is that they've vastly improved their play without the puck yeah you know and at times i think saturday night i did we all noticed that this game, and Sammy, you can back this up, but this is the game where you go, okay, they need Morgan Riley now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the game where you're like, boy, it would have been nice for 44

to go back out there and just skate the puck out of the zone. Yes, that was my biggest takeaway in terms of what the Leafs struggled with in that game was their inability to break the puck at any of their defensemen. I thought, how many times did Mark Giordano do that move where he flips it to center ice and kind of hopes? Just a punt? Yes. And you skate into it.

They must have taken, I wanted to go back and count, I don't know if there's stats for it, but there had to be at least 12 or 13 icings in this game, the amount of times the Leafs iced a puck. It felt like they had such a hard time. And that was probably Cooper telling them, saying, listen, you guys are big bodies. Go in there and lean on their D-man. Make a decision.

I don't think Hallowell was particularly good, and I think that's kind of reflecting why he's maybe out of the lineup tomorrow night, maybe see Timmons in. But I have to say, from a Leaf fan perspective, the parallels to the last game they played in that building were stark really well yeah i mean they go into the third period with a one goal lead couple ticky tack calls that call on marner off the face off sherry trips him off shoot a little bit standing there yes shoots it in the net and then, even, it didn't cost them, but even Kerfoot took a penalty 100 feet from his own net. Yeah.

In the offensive zone behind the net. And then they lose in overtime. It was a little bit of a bad dream game, if I'm being honest. Like, it felt like I was reliving a really painful moment. You guys didn't feel that at all? Yeah, no. Oh, I did. The Kutrop thing in particular.

But from beginning to end, you're right. It had that kind of playoff kind of feel. Where all these moments were amplified, it felt like. Like everything just felt like you're noticing these moments way more in this kind of game than you are, like Borny said, in Wednesday against the Sharks. Yeah, you're picking apart the little details because they come back to matter, right?

Exactly. Justin Hall played 26 minutes team high on the leafs and was on the ice killing penalties for more than pontus holberg was on the ice in the whole game he's on the ice for eight and a half minutes of pk time i mean it's too much that's too much justin hall love the guy not ever does i'm a fan that's too much justin hall but what else are you gonna do i guess little thin was there any part of you that said that uh you the leafs need to get somebody in that lineup a little bigger a little heavier at all that's the only thing that i saw that I would watch and think. And again, I'm saying, can the Leafs play this team seven times and think that this time they're going to come out on top?

Yeah. That's the only thing. And now I'm watching Maroon, Belmore, and Corey Perry. I thought they had a pretty good game. Yeah. And I thought they had a pretty good game yeah and i thought they they had pucks in deep they were able to use their size a lot yeah and that's where i think it's still tilt colorn's big paul's big you know they and even smaller guys like point is feisty

sorelli's feisty aston reese didn't give him a presence on the bottom like you would have hoped. And I just, I don't know if the Leafs are ready physically to play that team again for seven. Is there one or two different bodies they still need there that would help you, convince you that they can physically go against this team? I think so. I think so. Sammy, i don't know one thing that i noticed to me like during the broadcast again cc and simmer were talking

about how incredibly close that playoff series was last year remember it was the shots were one off the scoring chances were one off the goals the goals were one off and i just kind of was sitting there thinking to myself watching the game that it's going to be these two teams in the playoffs. It's going to be like that where it comes down to one bad call, one bounce off somebody's ass into the net in overtime, and it's just going to be the exact same thing. I don't want it to come down to one bounce.

I want to try to give myself a chance. Can you win a series 4-1? There's just no chance they're beating this there's no chance they're beating this team in less than five games or six i don't know there was a moment in that series maybe it was in game five when they when they won where it felt like tampa can't go anymore do you remember like the injuries felt like they were mounting for tampa they were at the end of these you know long playoff runs and i remember people talking about the difference.

Point laboring by then. Yes, he was. And it was like, I think it's just too much for this Tampa team. I just don't think they, you know, and all of a sudden it's two months later than the cup final. But, you know, I can see you getting to that point again. And you don't have to play seven games. You don't even have to play six.

So, yes, Kipper, to your point, are there additions you can make to stop it before it gets there? And I think there are some of the rumors, you know, about what are the type of things the Leafs are looking for. That sounds like a bit of a grumpy guy would be good. They'd like someone with a... And the one thing I thought the Leafs might have been able to kind of correct at the beginning of the year is that feel like they just know who their fourth line was going to be? Yeah.

And that you can groom them through the months of November, December, January, and really gear them up to have this great role in the playoffs. And yet now we're looking and we don't know. They play in Dallas tomorrow and we think the fourth line could look something like Austin Reese, Holmberg,

and Semyon Der Arguchintsev. Pretty good. Not so bad. Yeah, I can't say it. There's an N in there, Arguchintsev. Pretty good. Not so bad. Yeah, I can't say it. There's an N in there, Argychintsev. But from here on in, it's SDA. Yeah, like a contract. Henceforth, SDA.

Pronounce it, please. Semyon Durargychintsev. And I'm sure his parents would be offended by how I just said it, but I think that's how we're saying it. And we expect him to be in the lineup on the fourth line trying to establish a new look for the leafs yes so reviews of this kid are glowing from the marlies uh great skater great skill more

skilled than mulgan and uh and robertson yes uh i believe the phrase was like trying to pin a fish down in the corner when he has it but the it in the past, he hadn't been competitive in the way that you need to be when you're small or track and defend. Very small. How small? He's competitive now. He's working hard. Play handball against the curb? I think he's 168 pounds or so.

I don't know. 5'8"? 9. 5'8"? 9. 5'9"? He is listed on HockeyDB, which is one of my favorite websites, at 5'10", 173. Okay.

So 5'9", 160. So a more skilled Malgan? Yeah, like can do, you know the way that Rob Schrempf, Robbie Schrempf, do you remember him? Sure. Like couldn't play in the league, but was clearly just like absurdly talented. He's absurdly talented like that. Like can do unbelievable things the way that rob shrimp robbie shrimp do you remember him like couldn't play in the league but was clearly just like absurdly talented he's absurdly talented like that like

can do unbelievable things with the puck um but this year has been consistent and tracking back and forechecking and doing those sort of things so give him a chance is this is this like a 2022 typical fourth line guy who just has to sit there until he gets his chance to be a top six guy this is the question you think he's a top six guy playing now on the fourth line well that's the thing yeah right he's not going to be a fourth line guy at that size and skill set that's not you know him and robertson played together in peterborough the you know top power play unit you know familiar with one another i just you know kipper you talked about the fourth line identity and you knowing what they are going into it like we're doing that thing again where it's like maybe they're gonna have a small skilled

fourth line and that's the idea i just think it is experimenting time in the season mid 20s or whatever it is game 26 but boy b To me, that's what this is. They've made enough headway here now in the last month of November where they won pretty much all the, where they had 25 or 30 possible points in November, that they have enough breathing room here now, I feel like, to give a couple more guys a try. A couple of carrots, right? Just to see what they're doing and then kind of assess.

Listen, this isn't their bottom six of going into the playoffs with. I really don't believe that. Yeah, I don't either. I think there's a chance this kid, they think, can he pass the other small guys we have? If we're going to have a small skilled guys, can he be the one? They want sample sizes to know if and when they draw on him again, they want to know what they're working with this this is this

is the start of that this is the thing though so then like how do you find out because they're the fourth line as it currently is like they're going to play what eight minutes and then expected to go do skilly things i think it's so much easier to be called up as a third or fourth line guy where if you pump it in deep and get after and four check and go sit down, the coach goes, I liked him tonight. Holmberg, for example, what are the expectations been for him?

No one's gone. Oh, what does he do with the puck? But for this kid, he's going to play a few minutes and he has to do something. It's a hard, hard role to come in and look good. I guess that's my point.

We've got a great show here in about, uh, what, uh, 25 minutes. We're going to welcome in Shane O'Brien. He is of course of, uh Missing Curfew Podcast, former NHL-er.

We'll get his thoughts on the Leafs and other things around the league. Adam Oates will be joining us in the second hour, former NHL-er, and one-time consecutive streak man. How many games, Sammy? I think 20 and 22 or 21, I want to say, that he has. I'm looking at it right now.

He's got a 21-gamer and a 20-gamer in his career. That's nice. Nine players have streaks of 20 games or more going back 30 years. Just nine players. So he will know exactly what Mitch Marner is going through. Of course, Saturday night didn't take Mitch Marner long to stand on his own. Above my hero, Daryl Sittler, above Ed Olchuk.

Let's go to Sheldon Keefe on Marner. Yeah, yeah, it was. And just how the goal materialized, too. You know, you could almost see it, see him computing it in his mind before it happened, where he sensed that their guy was maybe in a little bit of trouble. He got a little bit of luck, a little bit of help from the referee there, but he felt that he could put a little pressure there and create a turnover,

and it's exactly what happened. And then to see him get rewarded and secure the record and all that kind of stuff, it's great to see Raywell deserved. He was excellent again tonight. No coincidence that he's in the box when they score. They finally get their first power play goal for us. That's a heck of a goal. Kampf makes a nice play too, doesn't he?

He did. But Marner to get the initial puck and beats the goalie there and makes that play. I know if it was the Leafs on the other side of that, we'd be burying Sergeyev. I don't know. He had a rough night. Their team was a bit of a tire fire down there.

But, yeah, great play by Kampf. Marner shooting the puck. He's got a bunch of goals now in this there but yeah great play by camp martyr shooting the puck he's got a bunch of goals now in this stretch too which is nice nine nine goals 17 assists over his 19 game straight you're gonna accuse me of jinxing this or not but i think this has some legs to really run i do too i think if i was a betting man yeah which I'm not yet, but maybe one day. But you can play on an app for free without money called Next. Download it in the App Store. Kipper owns the product.

But it's amazing. Check it out. All right, all right. We'll get into that some other time. But I do believe that with the threat of their power play and the way he's playing right now that there's a there's a chance that this thing could go a lot deeper it's just particularly for me it's guys with vision that was actually i sent you guys a list of the nine guys who have the long

streak it's a lot of guys who are set up men a lot of guys who are you know involved in getting the puck distributing the puck and for me witharner, who's he going to play against where he doesn't get the puck to some good shooters, some guys like John Tavares. He's just around it all the time. He certainly has it. You would have to be unlucky, it feels like, for him not to get points.

So yeah, I can see it. And how about tomorrow night? For the first time in NHL history, two people with consecutive point streaks of 18 games or more are playing each other head to head. Jason Robertson has an 18-game point streak right now. Yeah. Yeah, but he's not a Leaf.

He's not. It's such a good point. But anyway. That is pretty cool. Robertson has 33 points over a streak or something. 35. 35. He just scores. Just scores every time he's there. 24 goals in that, or 23 goals

in that time. Just on fire. Wow. Yeah. And everyone's like, yeah, it's Dallas though. Alright, let's get Mitch Marner on his breaking the record Saturday night. I mean, it's cool.

Like I was saying to you guys earlier this week, man, I grew up in this city. I love being a part of this team nowadays. It's special to me. It's special growing up to watch this team play hockey and now to have my name in something pretty amazing. It's hard to describe, but like I've been saying to you guys, man, it's not a one-man effort out there.

It's five-man. That was a great effort by Dave there on that first one there. And, you know, just trying to go out there and help this team win games. And unfortunately, we weren't able to do it tonight. But, you know, a lot of love to my guys for helping me achieve this accomplishment. That was good. Yeah, really nice. Did you catch the nowadays comment?

You guys both mentioned that. What am I missing on that? Well, now it's fun. Okay. It wasn't earlier. days comment you guys both mentioned that what do you what am i missing on that well yeah now it's fun okay it wasn't earlier before days not so much fun nowadays it's fun before a days i'm putting that in my dictionary i like that yeah nowadays things are all right yeah that's good when we were four four and two people aren't killing me right now it's fun the before times were dark nowadays nowadays things are good yes nowadays you can have a fourth line of Semyon Dergachintsev and Nick Robertson and I don't know Sonic the Hedgehog uh why don't we get uh

Keefe on Murray I want to go to murray a little bit because he did get clipped yeah that's something too that we i don't know if we want to pair that to overtime at all but there's 10 minutes to go in the third period where he took a bit of a ding in the old noggin but anyway okay let's go to keifer yeah i thought he was great it's not it's a challenging night for him lots of lots of tough stays lots of special teams, and they put a lot of traffic in front of you too, so obviously he's going to want that overtime shot back, and he hasn't let one in like that all season, so that's a tough one to end the night for him.

But he's great and obviously a great goalie going at the other end, so it was a pretty good battle back and forth between the two of them. That's the type of goal that we saw a lot in Ottawa last year. And that was the type of goal that scared the crap out of Sammy to start the season. Although Sammy was a true believer. I'll take the brunt of I was afraid. Oh, no, I was terrified.

No, no, he was terrified too. The Montreal game was not good for anyone's psyche to start the year. It was awful in that game. Just haven't seen it. Like, to Sheldon's point, I mean, maybe the first one since that opening week. I think statistically it's the first bad goal, like, in terms of, like, should not have gone in from there. Now, surprise, surprise, Corey Perry buzzes by the tower and clips him him no it was it was stamkos i did it oh no you're right you're right yeah you're right yeah that dirty bastard as much as notoriously filthy

as much as i'd love to say it was cory perry it was damn close but do you think that had any type of effect on him to finish out the game so i'm gonna say no but i am gonna say i did notice him shaking his head his head back into the turtle a little bit and giving the cobwebs a little dust off so yeah probably didn't help his vision or anything but now here's the thing everyone has gives it the best goalies in the least just durkin bad goals they they happen here and there you prefer they're not coming over against Tampa Bay on Saturday night. I will say this, though, that when you start getting into a playoff series and you know what the conversations are about crowding a goalie,

getting him off his rhythm, bumping him a little bit that's the one thing the one knock on matt murray is that he doesn't like that stuff you can tell too he gets pissed off at guys that are floating around the front quite a bit i'll take that though yeah i don't mind the guy who's what's that he gets mad at people and chops them and you know the question is is that can he play through it can he play through it yeah and can he maintain his focus and find a way to not i'll say get hurt yeah do you guys see the picture for celebrating marner's 19th goal streak or whatever like there's the whole team gathered around marner or whatever.

And then I don't know if you noticed, but Murray's like in the distance, just his eyes like angry and somber. Like, I guess he's not happy with how the game ended, I'm presuming, but like the whole team was around him like, way to go, Mitchie. You get a point off of the two-time Stanley Cup champions, one year removed.

And if he's not happy because of that, then I like his competitiveness sure yeah absolutely and you know you feel good that right now samson loves there too he will get bumped a lot more i think that's just uh that's just you just know that's coming in the playoffs it just changes on so many levels that you can never ever have anything in the regular season come close to what you see. Think about Vasilevsky, the way he fights through that, right? Like, he's so good. And I think because he's a big guy, and Murray's a big guy too,

but differently. Murray's not thick like Vasilevsky. So I'd be remiss if I didn't bring this up because it was a huge talking point out of that game. But thoughts on the officiating in that game on Saturday night? Well, like, come on. Not a big officials guy. How many total penalties did we have there?

A lot. Like 14? I'm looking it up right now, but there was a lot of penalties called. You just don't see that. I got it right here, too, because I was looking up who it was that took the penalties at the end. Or seven or eight. Three in the third, four, five, six five six seven eight penalties for the leafs okay and tampa bay they probably had six or seven uh yeah six no no leafs leafs had five power plays

so nice of them to bring back the refs from the first round last year to bring them back just doesn't happen very often like that that type of night do you think it is you know big game two teams hawk competitors the refs are like hyper in tune like a little bit too much like they don't recognize when it's done it just reminded me of last year where they called every tiny infraction for seven straight games and then didn't call a penalty for the rest of the playoffs it kind of just brought me back to that a little bit yeah and after everything they called in that the ticky tack everything they called in that, the ticky-tack, everything they called, and then for them to miss the play where John Tavares turns back into Oshawa Tavares,

end-to-end, and Victor Hedman legitimately puts his arm around him like he's his buddy at the bar and rides him into the net. Yeah, that one I could not believe. Yeah, he literally had an arm off. It was like around his body. And he kicks it. I understand they can't call it. But the reason he kicked it is because he got pulled down from behind like horse collar.

And then he moved his leg and kicked it while he was falling back. As he was falling because he was pulled, he got kicked. Anyways, it should have counted. I'm just saying like it's just I don't know how they don't call that. It's a massive game. It's a massive moment of the game. The puck's on his stick. He's going end to end.

What an effort, eh, by the way. I'm telling you, Tavares is, for a guy who isn't fast, he beats more people one-on-one when he's good. Sneaky. He is really sneaky with the puck. Yeah. So I don't want to be Mr. Wine about the ref because I don't feel like i really do it that

often no you don't and i just thought that they were particularly sketchy on saturday night and um no no one more thing i wanted to say about the officiating no call for um uh surrogate not surrogate jeff um oh my god the russian guy the superstar on their team kucherov on hall that was dirty yeah That was dirty. Yeah, that was dirty. Not worthy of a call? No question. Yeah, worthy of a call.

And then it wasn't one. No call. But, no. Not worthy of anything else except a missed boarding call. Could have been five. Well, they called it. It was a two-minute. What was it?

What was the call? I think it was boarding. But it could have been five. It could have been a call. Well, they called it. It was a two-minute. What was it? What was the call? I think it was boarding. But it could have been five. It could have been a call. Okay. Yeah. Anyways.

You thought it was suspendable? Interference against Justin Holl. You thought it was suspendable? Listen, this guy's got, he's not, he's not exactly a, you know, like a nice guy on the ice. He's. Doesn't sound like anywhere. He acts, he acts like a, Yeah, he acts badly at all times. He's been suspended multiple times, I think.

Like, this is the type of one that... The puck wasn't there. He didn't look at anybody else. He drove him into the boards from behind. It's the exact hit you're trying to get out of the game. I thought he could have got one game. You know what? Listen to this, though.

All right. First period, Mac Hollowell holding against Nikita Kucherov. Third period, Mitch Marner tripping against Nikita Kucherov. Third period, Mitch Marner tripping against Nikita Kucherov. Timothy Lilligren, interference against Nikita Kucherov. There's a reason this guy is effective being that way, right? I'm not saying it's okay, but he's a little nasty. Guys don't like him. He draws penalties, and then he shoots it in the net on them.

Really, really good. Third in the NHL in points right now. That guy is unbelievable. Power rankings of guys I hate the most in the league on them. Really, really good. Third in the NHL in points right now. That guy is unbelievable. Power rankings of guys I hate the most in the league. He's top five. No doubt. Can't stand him. What?

Can't stand him. This is Kucherov. I despise that dude. Hate him. Because he's so damn good. So damn good. He's dirty. Yeah.

He's just... It's like the nightmare for the other side. Toronto Maple Leaf. Jealous fan. Not jealous. Leafs have tons of sick players. You want him on your team? No, thanks.

That's how much I hate him. I'll skip him in the draft. Sam, you're the best. I hate him. Honestly, I love that. I hate his class. Do you want Nikita Kudrow on your team? Hard trophy winner?

Two-time cup champ? I don't. Here's the other thing here is you try to win the division or knock out tampa bay or boston is those star players have that hundred percent i agree leafs don't don't you're bang on oh you're bang on no not yet ever i mean tavaris is going to do that he's going to bury a defenseman in the boards headfirst. I know. Can Austin, after his Rasmus Dulling cross-check, I thought he would start.

He hasn't yet. I know he hasn't yet. Willie, no. Mitch, no. Could they learn it? Could they develop a little bit of a FU? Kucherov, yes. Yeah.

Stamkos, yeah. There's a little bit in them. I don't think they're like that's the thing i want to hate him but i can't hate him he's just too classy he's too good pastor now sorelli for sure marshand marshon he'll do it yeah i agree and i do wonder though if so that my own experience as a player is that as i got older i got more comfortable being like you know what like you know i deserve a little more respect than that and i i would be more likely to go at a guy as i got older you probably did too i figured it out like real early i think when i wasn't scoring goals that's fair that's fair uh so i wonder though if they're you

know these guys have been in the league seven years now. Okay, so who is most likely to bury somebody headfirst in the boards? You don't need to bury someone headfirst in the boards. I'm just comparing it to what we saw for Kucherov. Who's going to do what Kucherov did Saturday night on Hall? I think the only one eligible is really Matthews. I don't disagree. Because Willie is not in his nature, and I don't think you can poke that bear enough to make it his nature.

Mitch is, I don't want to say he's too small because they're a small, nasty guy. But that's not Mitch's game. You didn't think that way. I could see it becoming a part of Matthew's game. We're just, you know, can we get him there? Let's just get him in here and poke him a little bit. Stir him up. I don't know.

Tavares? I'm thinking more and more that tavarez is the closest to once in a while tangling a bit can you accidentally on purpose drive a defenseman into the boards sure i agree that it is a missing element that the leafs stars are not jackasses if they were worse people it would be better for the team i wish there are jackasses uh we tried our best to get cooper to tell us that sorelli was playing he did without saying it i knew it yeah who's most likely on the leafs to do it but to do it outside of the i guess bunting by default yeah bunting for sure but then who? Sandin.

That's a great pick. It's just not the way they are going to beat you. I want it to be. Let me just run through the guys you dressed the other night. They're going to beat you on skill and speed and a power play and puck possession. Okay, we got like a minute. Can this guy be a jerk? Zach Aston Reese? No.

No. Kerfoot? No. Once in a while. Marner? No. Simmons? Yes. Holmberg? We don't know matthews we just did engvall yes if we worked with if i worked with him yes i agree with that bunting we just did camp could camp be a jerk no neil under robertson doesn't matter. He's too small. Wayne Simmons, I'm watching him Saturday night, and I'm like, how hard can that be

where you just get called every two weeks to play? So hard. Right? It's almost like I feel bad for the guy. Yeah. Oh, and go out there and be, you know, intimidating and tough and chirp the other team, and then we'll see you in two weeks but also the other part of that is that takes away your ability to chirp when you don't play because then guys

bury you right they're like buddy you're irrelevant you haven't played since october you know like it's it really makes it hard to chirp anyway we should go all right let's take a quick break shane o'brien from missing curfew podcast we'll get his thoughts on the Leafs on Saturday night and maybe a little bit of Vancouver struggles. That and more after the break. Watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. the van so much to get into including in the second hour adam oats will be joining us we'll talk a little mitch marner executive point streak yeah adam oats had a couple oh yeah how

many do you think shane o'brien had i think he probably got a 30 game point streak my guess just a guess let's ask the co-host of uh missing christian podcast as we welcome in shane o'brien um i think i i once had maybe two or three no no no no not three who am i kidding? Maybe two. How about you? Kipper, I don't know. I guarantee you I had a few minor penalty streaks, Kipper. I bet you I had six or seven games of a minor. But I don't know about points, man. Maybe two or three.

But a lot of nights I got a lot of minors in a row, Kipper. And I was like, when am I going to get through a game without taking one here? Nice, nice. Not sure how much you caught of Saturday night Leaf in Tampa Bay, but many around here thinking, yeah, they might be ready to do it all over again come April.

Yeah, you know what? I didn't catch the whole game, but I caught a bit of it. But I did catch John Cooper's comments before the game with Ron McClain and the boys. And, you know, when a guy like John Cooper notices the detail that the Leafs are playing with and the details that the start players are playing with, and he says that, you know, the way they're playing now will help them in the spring, to me, that's the ultimate compliment.

So I know the game didn't go the way they did, but if a guy like John Cooper is noticing the way the Leafs are playing, more structure, better playoff hockey, that's a good sign for Leafs fans. And do you feel any differently about their chances this year, OB? Anything about the Leafs play that you like more or less? Gordy, I wish I did, buddy. I just had

Dougie Gilbert on the podcast, my favorite Leaf of all time. And, you know, I'm from Port Hope, Ontario. I just think, you know, I don't know how their goaltending is going to be come playoff time. You know, obviously their back end is dinged up right now. And then can their depth guys, you know, can they perform come playoff time? I don't know.

Eventually when you have Austin Matthews and Mitch Marner and William Nylander and John Tavares, you're going to win a round. But do I think they can win the Stanley Cup? I'm still not a believer. You know, one of the things we were just talking about before we brought you on was that there's a little bit of an X factor that some superstars have that others don't. And that is the ability to maybe get a little dirty every once in a while.

We saw Kucherov bury Justin Hall Saturday night into the board. So it led to a minor, but nothing more than that. And you look at Boston, and they've got still Brad Marchand with that element that could he do something stupid out here? And yet, you know, the Leafs don't have that. Are you a big believer now that, you know, it's not a must for one of your star players to have that edge? Or is there still a sense, OB, that, you know, it'd be awfully nice

if you had that element of surprise from a superstar? Yeah, Kipper, I still think it's important, especially, you know, in a seven-game series. You know, the Toronto Maple Leafs and Austin Matthew, he's a fabulous player. He's an unbelievable talent. You know, watching him night in, night out, and you boys especially being in Toronto,

you must appreciate it even more. But come playoff time, you know, and John Tavares too, you know, he's a great player. He's an unbelievable talent. Watching him night in, night out. You boys, especially being in Toronto, you must appreciate it even more. But come playoff time, you know, and John Tavares too, you know, he's a great player. He's an unbelievable career. But come playoff time, can he get a little dirty? Can Matthews get a little dirty? Can Mitch Marner get his nose dirty? Like, you know what it's like, Kipper? Like, when you get into playoffs,

everyone's got to get out of their comfort zone. And can these star guys, can they get greasy? Can they get dirty? Like, when I saw Mitch Marner with a black guy after that winnipeg jets game i was like here we go this is what this guy needs to look like come playoff time like just you got to get out of your element and play a little bit dirtier and let the other guys know that if push comes to shove you will do something you know i was actually going to be the perfect guy to ask about this there are a couple big hits over the last little bit. Trouba just laid out Andreas Athanasiou.

And who was it? Darlene Smoked Nieto. It just feels like so many guys are comfortable cutting up the middle, driving right up the gut of the neutral zone with their head down because people don't hit like they used to anymore. What are your thoughts on

big hits like this and how rare they are? Yeah, I love seeing it. You know, I've got to give that Doley in credit. He plays with an edge. I don't know if he'd play with an edge if Kipper was on the ice back in the day, but nowadays he plays with that edge, so I've got to give him that. And Trouba, that's his game. I mean, he plays hard.

Listen, the New York Rangers, to me, was an embarrassing effort. Losing on home ice to the Sens and effort losing on home ice to the Sens and then losing on home ice to the Blackhawks for a trooper to step up and drill that guy I think it's unbelievable but the New York Rangers in general they gotta look in the mirror and for me it starts with their structure away from the puck they gotta start playing a lot better. Shuster can build

a middle last year and that's not happening this year You know the other thing too is I would believe it'd be a lot harder to have those big hits. The guys are more mobile. They move faster, quicker. I mean, even watching the Dahlien hit in Buffalo. And you know what I marveled as much as the hit was his ability to match Nieto's speed with just skating backwards until he was ready.

Like, to me, that stands out as much as anything else. And just how much harder it would be to time a hit like that today than even five or ten years ago when Scott Stevens was the great at kind of catching you by the element of surprise. I'm not sure Scott Stevens would have been able to skate backwards like Darlene to lay out a hit like that. Yeah, I know. Kipper, you're 100% right.

And, you know, from my era, I think of, you know, FNUF and maybe a Nicholas Cronwall that were so good at stepping up. And, you know, I was never a great open ice hitter. But, you know, when you come down inside the outside the dots and you're running out of real estate, Kipper, that's the hit that I miss, right? I miss the D coming over and finishing the guy in the corner. I get it. It's no longer the way they play, but I'm with you.

That Darlene open ice hit. That's just a credit to how good his feet are. OB, you know, you name your guy's show is missing curfew. And I was wondering if you think guys today go out. Do you think it happens anymore? I've seen a couple of post leaf games video where the guys are like, let's go have some cocktails. I'm like, does anyone still do that?

No, they play video games in the hotel. Well, listen, I think each era goes out. I think probably the Kippers era guys went out more than Meyer, and now people in this era probably go out less. But I'll tell you what, I make a joke about this, boys, but Mitch Marner, you know, when he got his 18-game point streak and tied Sittler and Eddie O, he comes to the dressing room and the Leafs dump water on him.

Stephen Samacost gets his 1,000th point. The boys in Tampa are drinking beers and chugging beers. I'm just saying, boys, I know I'm old school, but Kipper, is there any beer in that Leafs dressing room or what? There's got to be a case of multiplication somewhere in there. Buddy, they don't want the calories.

I'm telling you. It's not even. Forget about perception. They don't want the calories. Jeez. I know all that from my playing days, Kipper, but I sacrificed the food for the booze. I'll skip the meal here tonight, boys.

I got one more for you just before we move off of Trouba and the Rangers. Just the mere fact that he was willing to go after Brady Kachuk. And, you know, not often that you see two of the higher paid guys in the league go toe to toe. But just your thoughts on, on Truba again,

trying to just change it up for his teammates, wake them up, do something. I didn't mind it at all. No, I can't, but I loved it. I loved it on Brady can Chuck's part too.

That's a kid. I absolutely love a kid that I believe, you know, that Ottawa centers franchise can build around. I thought they would be off to a better start this year. The Talbot injury, I think, hurt them a little bit. But with Trouba, you're right. Listen, the Rangers went to the Eastern Conference Finals last year.

You know, they were supposed to be good again this year. For whatever reason, they don't have that get up and go. And Trouba's the leader of that team. And if you want to step up and fight the other captain, I think it's great. He always plays physical. And to me, there's not enough guys in the league that play that way anymore. One team I wanted to ask you about while we had you is the Canucks. You know, what a, I don't want to call it a tire fire.

It's not good though, right? Like, I mean, you know, lots of talent, contract situations are weird. Is Bo Horvath going to leave? What are your thoughts on the Canucks season and kind of where they stand in terms of moving forward? Yeah, great question. You know, obviously with Bo, he's having a great year. And, you know, as an ex-player, you always want to, you know, time it that you're UFA.

And I'm sure him and his agent are happy. But when you look at the Canucks from a whole, and, you know, poor Bruce Boudreaux. You know, Bruce is such a great guy. And, you know, he goes in there and turns them around last year. And then they have a tough start. But my point being is they don't pay attention to playing defense. Like how many times are you going to give up a two or three goal lead?

And Kipper, you know this as an ex-player. Before you sit in the dressing room and you look around and say, fellas, it's just not good enough. Like you can't play the coaches. You can't play the assistant coaches. It's the guys within. And they play a loose away from the puck. And then when they get up three, they think it's cookie night

and they want to make it 6-1. And before you know it, they're down in the game. So to me, it's a character thing. I love JT Miller. I think that's a guy you can build a the game. So to me, it's a character thing. I love JT Miller. I think that's a guy you can build a team around. But for me, it's character right now in Vancouver. We're talking to Shane O'Brien, co-host of Missing Curfew, the podcast. Touching on Vancouver.

Surprised to hear how Brock Besser all of a sudden is on the outside looking in here. No, you know what, Kipper, another kid. You know, obviously a touchy situation with his dad passing away and it was cancer in Vancouver. I get all that, but it's bigger than just one game for Brock. Like, you know, I talked about comfort zone with you guys earlier in the show here today. Like, that's a kid that has one of the best releases in the NHL.

You know, I don't know if I've ever seen him even get hit with a stick or a shoulder or anything. Like, you've got to eventually go to the dirty areas and get out of your comfort zone and show that you care. And I don't know him personally. I don't want to talk to him as a person, but as a hockey player, he just doesn't go to the dirty areas enough,

and to me, he doesn't compete hard enough. Going around the league a little bit, one of the topics of interest for us to chat about was Jordan Binnington in St. Louis and Kipperipper and i know you were going to talk about it a little more later but the i wanted to get your thoughts on how you would feel seeing the opposing goalie i don't know constantly going at guys jawing chatting at the bench rather than just playing goal or your thoughts on binnington's antics in st louis yeah it's crazy like you know throughout my career,

usually it was guys like Mwango and Pecorini telling me to calm down, right? So I never played for a goalie that, you know, was like Binner. But for whatever reason, you know, it definitely helps him come play off time. He has a Stanley Cup ring because of it. It's a tough one for me because I love people that play with passion, but at the same time, you want your number one goalie

to kind of be calm in any situation. But for Craig Berube to come out and say something, obviously Chief has seen enough. Things aren't going well. I love Binner, but it's probably time for him to just kind of concentrate on playing goal, and they've got enough guys in St. Louis to fight if they have to. Are you surprised

at St. Louis' struggles, the streaks, just the mere fact that they've got some tough decisions starting with say their their captain on what do you do with him uh as he goes towards unrestricted free agency and we're talking about uh ryan o'reilly yeah you know what i love factor i met him when he was a young kid in colorado i knew he was special right when i met him um i'm not surprised you know the first three games of the year they started off three and oh and I watched all three of them, and I was like,

wow, they're lucky to win these games, and they're getting outskated. To me, it's their foot speed. I still think they're chasing the game many nights. Their back end hasn't been as good as probably Doug Armstrong had hoped. Tough decisions moving forward. I'm not sure what's going to happen, but I will never bet against teams that have

won a Stanley Cup, and with a captain like Ryan O'Reilly, they've still got time to turn it around. Last one for me, Obi, just wanted to get your thoughts on how your podcast is going, how you're enjoying it, is media life what you expected? Yeah, you know what, boys, I think I'm working harder now than when I played Kipper.

I should have worked this hard when I was playing Kipper. I maybe wouldn't have to have a second career, but no, it's going great. You know, we're actually trying to pull off a men's league tournament in Vegas March 23rd to the 26th. So anybody out there in Toronto, if you're looking for a nice National League men's league tournament, go to missingcurfewcup.com and check it out.

It's going to be a National League weekend. All three of us are coming. That's all you needed to say. Let's do it. Let's do it, Kipper. Let's do it. All right, one more for me, and that's just your needed to say let's do it let's do it kipper let's do it all right one more for me and that's just your biggest surprise now almost a third into the season

boston at 20 and three or seattle at 15 six and three oh great great question i guess i'm gonna have to go i guess we're gonna have have to go Seattle for the main fact that I watched Boston play opening night against a banged up Washington Capitals team, but the way Krejci jumped right back in, Kipper, from being out of the league for a year, I was like, wow, they got that second line center back. So for me, I'm going

to say Seattle. I love the way they play. They play up-tempo. They can score goals. They can go forward. I still believe if they want to make the playoffs, I know that's crazy with the record right now play away from the puck structure i sound like that old defensive coach but they got to play a little tighter d but seattle's a great story wow it sure is obie thanks for doing this man we really appreciate it anytime fellas thanks for having me thanks obie Obi. Shane O'Brien. Great podcast, too.

Missing Curfew. Yeah. A couple of classic hockey guys. Were you a Missing Curfew guy? I actually was, yeah. You were? Yeah. But I know a Make Curfew.

Is that all in your book coming out? A little bit. When's your book coming out? February 14th. February 14th. Yeah. Down and Back, it's called. On Valentine's Day, because it's called um on valentine's day because it's so full of love well it's uh related to an important anniversary for me

personally all right and that's kind of cool books come out on tuesday so it happens to be valentine's day okay but uh yeah but i was i was more likely to make curfew and then go back out you do the check-in take the call if there is one room checks orfew and then go back out. You do the check-in, take the call if there is one, room checks or whatever, and then you go back out. Did you ever hear that Scotty Bowman curfew trick? No. Where he tells the bellman, the 24-hour security bell guy at the hotel,

to get the guys to sign an autographed for him yeah uh after curfew yeah and every signature on the stick is busted yes correct that's incredible i've never heard that before oh yeah that's amazing i know had a lot of uh a lot of tricks of that you know paying off the help or whether it's loitering himself around there or someone else my rule of thumb is that you only break curfew with the best players on the team it's a great rule of thumb yeah and when a guy like there's a hundred percent if the whole team's there you're fine doug gilmore mark messier brian leach rodway, tell me it's good enough to stay out, I'm riding that coattail over anybody in management. You know why that's really smart too?

If my teammate wants me to stay with them, I'm staying with them. I'm not bailing out on them at a bar. I love the logic. You hear teams say that you can have a bad guy on your team. It's fine. You can deal with that. You can't have two bad guys. And so you don't, because they feed off one another negative energy.

But I'm saying for the bad players, if they're bad players and they're negative energy, you don't want to be with those guys. You don't even have to be a bad player. You just can't. You cannot not be the most important player. I'm not breaking curfew with al may right because we're both shipped well that's exactly we're both shut down we're both you know well i was if you're low in the lineup and you're a degenerate they'll be like a bye-bye you know we'll set an example here exactly exactly you get you guys mentioned mentioned Brady Kachuk there? Mm-hmm. God, that performance at MSG on Friday night was spectacular.

It was really good. H-O-R-S-N-E for that horse of a hockey player. He ties the game late. He fights the other team's tough captain at center ice at Madison Square Garden. I thought of that, too. MSG center ice square off. That's big league. And then he goes in on a breakaway,

just makes Panarin look like the softest dude on earth, shrugs him off and goes five hole. And cheeky backhand five hole. Not even like, yeah, the defending Vezina trophy winner. Big cut in his face. And they have to, like, they got to gain points now just to keep themselves. Sens?

Yes. I mean, with no disrespect to Ottawa, for what purpose? You buried them though, right? Oh, I buried them. Cross off? Are they? Red mark. It's too late now?

It's done? Yeah, Sharpie. Done. I don't know. Oh my God, you guys. Let me pull up the standings. The only thing I can tell you is that we are in the streakiest era I've ever seen in the National Hockey League.

And they have two wins in a row. If they polished off eight to ten in a row, would that be shocking to you in today's game? Okay. Yeah, probably would be. Probably, but not really. I am, you know what, I'm going to hold

off on the big black Sharpie marker X off for like a week. Okay. I'm going to hold off. They've won two in a row. Okay. So you get a little mojo going.

They're eight points out of a playoff spot. I wouldn't say they have the hardest December schedule. Okay. They got the Kings tomorrow night in Dallas Thursday. That's a tough one. Nashville, Anaheim, Montreal, Detroit, Minnesota. Okay. Okay. Okay. Winnieim, Montreal, Detroit, Minnesota. Okay, okay, okay.

Winnipeg, Washington, Detroit again, Boston. Okay, I'm not going to cross them off just yet, but by Christmas, I'm going to make a call. You know who's in tough maybe for the next five games are Trouba's New York Rangers. Why? Because they've got a tough schedule coming up, which I think includes colorado uh vegas if i'm not mistaken take a quick peek i am and i think in game four or five

the toronto maple leafs they got yeah blues golden knights avalanche devils leafs okay so better beat the blues where are you in five games for now for a team that has incredibly high expectations and a coach that is feeling the heat right now? The Rangers are actually a great case study for analytics because sometimes these teams, they just, they're unlucky and they're actually pretty good. The Rangers are okay by the numbers i'll tell you no they're better than they were last year on things like uh shot attempts uh they're very good defensively according to their numbers are good yeah they're not as successful as last year why one player go player. Goaltender. Yes. Yeah. Shesterkin looks down to earth.

And he's like a 9-13. Here's something. I actually don't know what he is. No, but it just gets to show you and tell you how good he was last year that he covered up and saved their bacon on a number of occasions. He would bring me great joy. He's exactly a 9-13. Wow.

Yes. Right? It would bring me great joy if they just stunk it up so i'm not a rangers guy sorry but i but yeah they're better than this they're better than their record right now i expect them to start winning some matches now the other thing before we go to break is uh athena see you from chicago had some choice words about jacob truba i know he did you do uh i have them would you like me to read them yes i would uh the words were he's an eight million dollar man with zero goals so he has to figure out how to do something when you're making that much i if you can't help the team

i guess you're trying to hurt guys on the other team yeah i don't think that's embarrassing i don't think who who who who yeah that is just not fair of uh i think i don't yeah i think it's a bit of a cheap shot to him because yeah i i like true but that was a marvelous hit yeah there was no flaws in that hit a is just gotta suck it up yeah i mean i understand being mad at the the other side or not liking the hit or whatever but first off i do think it was a fine hit and they're probably a little bit um they got some ptsd from last year when they when he nailed what was he nailed uh jarcare on their team last year and yeah it was like the whole stretcher situation there's nobody that's had better open ice hits than this guy in the last few years 100 the thing is he's like yeah he makes eight million dollars he's got to find something else to do exactly well he did

and i i put out a screenshot on twitter just for basically for myself to look at it but you're skating in the middle of the ice up the rink with your head down like do you think it's my beer league like what do you think's gonna happen people don't expect to get hit anymore know who's on the ice man read the game sheet i think it's such a slippery slope now for guys to comment on who they think is overpaid and underpaid and i was like what are you doing yeah that isn't unnecessary. Should we go back and take a look at your $3 million a year and find out for sure?

Estimate the value teams have gotten out of the... Don't go there. Trouba certainly is a guy that's probably seen more power play time on Winnipeg than he does now. I was going to say, Adam Fox is like the best defenseman in the league. You're not going to be PP1. Fox, I think, played 30 minutes. Fox has 27 points in 26 games.

He's pretty good. He's not number one power play. Yeah. And don't worry about what his job's offensively. He's got 77 shots. He's not just sitting on the bench doing nothing. I mean, he's a contributor for them. So, I don't know.

I mean, I just, I didn't like that. I didn't like where he went. I don't hate the idea of a guy getting pounded then saying like, you know, F you, I don't like that guy. But yeah, it doesn't seem, it's inaccurate to say he's not earning any. And if I'm not mistaken, it was Jonathan Taves that jumped in there. Yeah. Immediately,

which was kind of cool. That's, that's a big man to go after when you're not necessarily a fighter. You know, Taves has fought though, you know? Oh yeah. Oh,

he's got, he's got some edge. I'm sure he's double digits in fights in his career. Maybe that's the Leafs superstar with FU factor. Third line, John Tavares, or sorry, Jonathan Taves is your center. You know where i said colorado boys yeah okay could he not work

for the leafs i mean money i know i'm aware of the money thing but i mean if they did a whole bunch of fancy stuff would you want them expiring taves yeah i would never turn him down what if taves is you know because you said the jeru, you know, these guys will have their team over a barrel. If they're like, send us a second in Robertson, I don't know. Can I offer you a really hardworking penalty killer that just skates around like the wind? Is this 47? Just skates like the wind.

Flies around, boys. Free up 3.5 schmill yeah and you'll pick up uh uh the cab fare to the airport right because you drive yeah i'll drive you'll drive anglo no i'll pay the gas i'll drive them okay angful yeah all right one guy we're uh not paying uh cab fare too is uh adam oats we've got him after the break that guy gets a limo for having the career that he had. Adam Oates, coming up next, we'll discuss the Marner streak, one that he's seen not once,

but twice in his career. Adam Oates after the break. You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 the van justin born nick kiprios just talking about streaks and our next guest had not one but two of them at over 20. It's wild.

Wild. And he was, I think if we talk about pure passers, set up guys, and I mean, obviously Wayne's in a class on his own with a number of assists. More assists than the second guy had points yeah that's just he is tiger woods where you're like okay well there's everyone else there's this guy but then when there's everyone else uh when it comes to pure passers i think of joe thornton and adam. As good as it gets. You know, the list of people who have long streaks,

there's some guys with great vision. Paul Stastny, one of the more recent ones. Patrick Kane, Adam Oates. Kane's on there a couple of times. Crosby, Matt Sundin. What was Matt's at? Matt's is the top of the list. Longest streak in the past 30 years.

Oh, Quebec. 30 games, 92-93. The same year that Oates had a 21-21. It's hard to imagine that he didn't do that in the prime of his career with the Toronto Maple Leafs. And he did it in those early years in Quebec. Have you seen the pushback to us celebrating this streak at all? People, we got Oates now. We'll talk about it later.

People are mad because it's Toronto and we're making a big deal out of it. But as you see here, it's happened nine times in the last 30 years so it's a big deal yes all right as promised adam oats former nhl-er 1079 assists that is incredible including many uh when it came to your consecutive streaks of not once but twice, 20 and 21 points. If I'm not mistaken, one came with St. Louis and the other one with Washington Capitals, Otzi? Yeah, I think so, Kipper. Yeah, how are you doing, man?

I'm well, buddy. How are you? I'm good, thanks. Yeah. Do you remember those streaks well? Was it a big deal or was it one of those, yeah, okay? Yes and no. Was it a big deal or was it one of those? Yeah. Okay. Yes. And no,

it's a, it's one of those where you get to a point where, Ooh, I'm on a little roll and you're trying to act like it doesn't, you know, you're not thinking about it, but of course you're thinking about it. But,

but you know, you played when I played, I think what is, what did Gretz get 45 or 50 or something? One. 51. Yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing.

Yeah, we were just saying. You know what? What a fantastic streak for Marner, eh? Like, it's awesome. Yeah, it's been great. Go ahead, Kimber. People don't know how hard it is. They don't.

I know. And I don't know how hard it is. They don't. I know. And I don't know. I think of the obstacles that you guys would have had to put these type of streaks together in our era and how everything's been skewed towards opening up the game and allowing guys more opportunities, picking their face off in the offensive zone, no changing the D off of icing. I mean, should there not be more superstars doing this? Well, you know what?

I would say that one of the things that comes into play is schedule. You know what? Like depending on where you are and how much you have to travel and at that particular time. And I would say that one of the things that definitely in my generation is, you know, you're going along and you're on a little roll

and all of a sudden one night you break your thumb. And because to me, the biggest difference in the game that I see today on a daily basis is way less slashing. And I think for the better, for sure. Like, I've always, I have no problem with contact.

Obviously, you don't want dirty. But the amount of slashing that is now not in the game really helps guys. It does. And it's a part of the violence that's out, which I like. But just schedule-wise, right? It's tough, man. Like, you might play four and six and travel two of them.

And it's not, you don't always have the A game. So to put a streak together, you definitely, you know, he plays with great players. That helps, of course. You're a team that likes to score. That helps. You've got a great power play.

That helps. But still, great power play. That helps. But still, you got to do it on a night-to-night basis. And that's, you know what? Obviously, it doesn't get done much. So it's fantastic. One of these things that's so impressive and challenging is like, if you're a setup guy, you're relying on your teammates to put the puck away. And Mitch Marner has been really gracious and deflecting to his teammates putting away chances

along the way did you have any years of your career where you're like man I made more plays this year than I did that year or that year but I didn't get as many points because your teammates just aren't able to finish at the same rate I mean yes of course it's always their fault

yes that's right you know what like he plays right now. He plays with the MVP of the league, right? And I've said this. If you listen to any time I ever speak about the goal scorers, the number one thing that they don't get credit for is their brain. Because Austin Matthews has to know when to get open. Mitch Marner can get him the puck, but there's a timing involved.

Yes, he's a great shooter. No question. He is. But I think his greatest skill is his brain. I think I play with Brett Hall. I play with Cam Neely. Their best skills were their brain. They knew when to time to be open.

And that's the hard part. And then you've got to be able to shoot it. And, you know, I would say the one great thing is Mitch Marner knows how to pass the puck correctly. He puts it at the right pace, at the right speed, at the right time. So that's why it's a great chemistry. When it comes to just that chemistry, and we've seen now Marner more than ever jump on and off

with Tavares and Matthews. You had few locks like Holly, but is it now that his game is at the point where it really doesn't matter? I mean, this guy is going to rise to the occasion and he's going to pull players up with him. Is that where he is at this point, where it doesn't matter if it is Tavares or Matthews? Yes, I would agree with that, Kipper, no question.

And I'll give you a great example, and that's Patrick Kane. No matter what, he produces, right? Right. And obviously they don't have the same studs they had a few years ago and he still figures out a way to produce and when you watch i would say one of the greatest compliments for a player is when you watch guys get the puck they're looking to give it to mitch why well because they know something good's going to happen and that that is the ultimate compliment right and you see that with a few guys. You know, you see everybody's looking for Panarin.

Why? Well, because if you give it to him, you're going to get it back. Same with Kuch, right? Like Kucherov. And all the great ones, you know, Connor, Leon, like they play together. It's fantastic to watch them on a night-to-night basis. And you guys are lucky.

You got some stars on your team that are fun to watch, right? And then every single night something could happen. That's a lot of fun. It is. It's very fun. One of the things we see Marner doing, and something I was hoping to get to ask you about here, is the guys that go heel to heel now,

that 10-2 sort of way that Marner can maneuver around the offense. We see that more and more. I know you teach skills. How much of a part is, is skating now in creating offense? I don't know if that's changed over the years or if that's just the way it's always been. I would say,

honestly, like we, we do work on that. Me and my coaches, we work on skating, but we work on it the way you just explained it. Right. So Marner has the capability. Like, so the best way you just explained it. Right. So Marner has the capability.

Like, so the best way I can explain it is range. His range on his backhand is equal to his forehand. So, you know, Crosby has that right. Like, like when you watch a player that can go both directions equally with a

full range, so then they're, they can run their routes better. Their vision is better they see more why well if a guy is just as good on his backhand as his forehand he's going to be able to see everything on his backhand he's going to be able to escape on his backhand so that puts in a whole new set of variables that happens in a guy's game shift after shift and and Marner and I would tell you this the most small guys in our league Johnny Goudreau, Tuch, Panera, some of the guys,

that is their greatest gift. Eric Carlson. Well, because they weren't physical big guys, they had to learn how to do that to keep surviving. And obviously he's fantastic at it. No question the expectations from guys like you and Brett Hall were to put up some big numbers, O.T. And I want to talk a little bit about Austin Matthews

and maybe some of the pressure he might have felt to live up to that 60-goal MVP season and even to draw a comparable to maybe even a Brett Hall type when just people expect big numbers. And then what would that have done to you and the pressure on you to help him fulfill those huge expectations

my question to you is is it possible that Austin Matthews can score 35 or 40 goals this season and it still be a success no no wow I don't I mean I think that's too drastic a difference. He's not going to score that, that little 50. I mean, yeah. Do you expect, do you expect good numbers? Yes.

No. And that's what your question about the pressure. Oh yeah. And obviously he's in a very difficult market. The good news is he's playing with great players. They have a great power play. So I don't see that happening, barring an injury. So, but you can't be that drastic. You know, every single guy wants to live up to a certain production. You played with Metz, right? So like every single night, Metz wanted to do it too, right?

I played against you guys. And every night, you know, he brought it no matter what and i would say you know when it come to holly holly won mvp the league he scored 86 goals and the next year we had we added brendan shanahan who was a goal scorer and that was also a canada year. So Brian Sutter had gone and been assistant coach. So when he came back, he tweaked our systems, and that affected Hulley out of the gate. And so a lot of little variables. I got, you know, ice time responsibilities, having another good goal score, and a little different systems.

We didn't get as many power plays. So the first month of the season was a bit of a struggle. And being the MVP, like no question, he felt it. So in answer to your question, for sure, you wear that on your shoulders every night. You were one of the best passers in the history of the game. I don't think at times too often that, that pressure would have forced you to make a pass that you didn't really like to make, pass that you didn't really like to make.

But others would. And I think at times I've even watched Morgan Riley try to look for Matthews even on the power play and maybe it's not there or he's forcing it. But the pressure, I think, for others to get these guys the puck is, was that the case? Did you ever see that outside of the pressure that you put upon yourself to put the perfect pass on?

Holly Stick, were there others out there where you just say, hey, it's not there? No question. And I think that comes with the territory. There's an underlying pressure to give certain guys the puck. And that's where you know like good coaching comes into play in the sense that okay yes he's going to get his shot you want to try and make the right play at the right time and yes if he's open he wants it

so let's make sure we know when he is open and when he's not open and and that's you know and I would say I was guilty of that of course you know you want to get H holy to puck. And maybe there's times I should have shot when I didn't. So I don't think anybody's perfect on that. But very good point. Is that, you know, I wonder about that on the power play in general, because like Mitch Marner is such a great offensive producer, but he went 100 games without a power play goal at one point. This year he was 25 games without a power play goal.

He scores last night and gets, you know, or on Saturday night and gets his first one. When you're a passer and people think of you as a passer i wonder how hard it is to like remind yourself that you can shoot and you can do those things that's something you had to do consciously yeah no question very hard actually very hard and you know part of it is i know that if i can get holly the puck right, he's got a better chance of scoring as opposed to me just turning and trying to shoot it on a goalie who's facing me. Where if I can get the goalie to move and get it to Hulley, that's a way better opportunity.

So that's sort of the way guys think about it. But to your point, no question. When I coached the Caps, my first meeting with Ovi was, you're going to get a lot of shots, but the power play is not about you. It's about us. You're still going to be the guy that gets the most, but to your point, I need the other guys to be able to, if it's open, they got to see it too.

They're not just looking for you. Oh, see, 20 years ago, would it have been more acceptable that hey this guy's a disher this guy's a playmaker i mean do you recall working on your shot or were you always like i'm the setup guy and today you know what a guy that's known for being a passer spent a lot more time on his shot today than than some guys would have 20 years ago? Yeah, I think you're right. I do. Did you work on your shot thinking that you needed to?

Not nearly enough, but to your point, for sure. And the funny thing is, the goaltending is so good now that you still need those opportunities. You want to make the right decision at the right time and so when you think of like offense obviously power plays number one number two is

entering the zone do you enter the zone with numbers because that's an odd man situation and then five on five hockey is very difficult right you got to create these little mini two on ones openings rebounds how do you go to the net so for me it's volume of shots it's not it's not working on your shot and obviously there are a few guys in the league that have a special shot yeah that's that's their number one weapon but still it's volume of shots you need lots of shots and those guys get them don't they oh yeah you know thinking about what you do it's it's got to be challenging to take great players and teach them. Is it a weird place to be in?

Do you find guys very receptive? Do you find you're able to make gains? It's a fascinating thing to those of us who never had those God-given skills to contemplate that Tiger Woods had a swing coach. You know, is that a tough spot to make gains? You know what? No. no. These guys, these guys, well, these guys are elite, right?

And the elite want more. They want more. They want, give me 1% more. Look at Tom Brady. He wants to play. Look at Chara. He wants to play. Jager.

Like we want more, right? We want one more. And you don't want the great ones do. That's one of the reasons they're great to begin with. They, growing up, they obviously, they had skills that they developed, but they've always been able to rise and keep it going. So to me, the guys that I work with,

it's always, they're very dedicated. They don't get to this point and all of a sudden relax. No, no, they want more. And that's very challenging for me, and I enjoy that. We're talking to Adam Oates, NHL great and president of Oates Sports Group. So, Oatesy, let me get this straight then. You're perfectly fine with the iPads on the bench and after the shift, burying their heads right into that.

Ooh, that's a different question. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Ooh, that's a different question. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a different question. There's a part of me that I don't like it, but I'd love to get your thoughts. I'm the same as you. I'm 50-50 where, for example,

if I was on the power play and Chris Cellio stopped me and I could go to the bench and on a commercial, I couldio stopped me and I could go to the bench and on a commercial I could look at it and I could realize, oh my, I had way more time than I thought. I think that would help me. But to do it just for the sake of doing it,

I think that's a waste of time and it's grandstanding. But if there's strategic things, like let's say we blow a face off and they score a goal and all of a sudden you can correct that on the bench with a little reminder on an assignment.

I think it's productive. As long as it's done right, it's information, right? Yeah. If it's done right. What's hard is watching the game is information too, right? I just think it disconnects it disconnects

you from what's going on in the present and you know we're also talking about a play much like a snowflake there's no two plays that ever are the same that's why I like it for special teams there's patterns on special teams and you know

just to your point you know do you need to physically see it on a video that you had more time like you got four coaches there and you know can someone not see that you had way more time and just share it with you i i just think i love i love players wanting to get better and they're they're like sponges but you know i i think once you come off the bench there's teammates there there's coaches there it just disconnects you a little bit more from from being on a team instead of you know focusing on your your individual play that that's my only point like i said no no I agree with you like I think that like I said it's got to be very selective because I also think

it's got a fakeness to it because you're not really digesting some of that information but you also look at this generation everybody walks around with their cell phones buried their head in their cell phone nowadays aren't they? I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah.

Hold on. I got to take a call. People, people, people are driving, looking at their phone. Like people are crossing crosswalks, looking at their phone.

I mean, it's, it is a bit of this generation. So these guys are used to it, which, which obviously for you and me, that's, that's irritating.

But I do, like I said, I like once in a blue moon if i was coming off and i thought something and i wanted to look at it real quick if i couldn't like if i said hey kipper did you see that play no i missed it all right then i might want to look but if i said hey were you open yes i was you were oh man i didn't see you man you know so like like so if it's if it's done correctly i I think it's okay. If we're just doing it on autopilot,

because obviously we all know some guy's going to make a mistake, he's going to look at that and make the same mistake next shift. So it's not like he's fixing anything, right? Yeah. So once again, if it's done correctly, I think it can be productive. But to your point, yeah, you don't want to disconnect from the game. No. Oh, Tia, but to your point, yeah, you don't want to disconnect from the game. No. Oti, I always enjoy listening to you.

I loved our times together on Hockey Night in Canada. I always caught myself going, wow, you know, every time you spoke, it felt like I learned something, and today is no different. Thanks for doing this, pal. Hey, my pleasure. Thank you, Kevver. Thanks, Oti. Adam Oates, NH nhl great president of oats

sports group he does a ton individually and there is that fine line uh if i can recall i don't know whether it was last year the year before it was chris crider and if i'm not mistaken and zabana jad's going to the iPad. And he takes it and he chucks it. Tom Brady style. And I just thought that was really cool. And I think it actually happened again in a later game where they went out and scored after that.

I know exactly what you're talking about. Here's my proposal to you. Yeah. You can look at it if the coach brings it to you and says, hey, you missed something here here's here's the play on that power play you guys are going you're missing the seam look look every time you go to the point there's a seam but you can't initiate it by getting it yourself plus kneelander's up to uploading tiktoks during the game i've noticed here's here's what here's

what i'm proposing here's what i'm proposing you Here's what I'm proposing. You wait until in between periods. No. Okay. The game is about mistakes. Mistakes create offense. Mistakeless games are boring. Okay. I want boring if I'm a coach yeah i know but we're in the entertainment right yeah

and i know there's times when i'm about winning and what's what makes the players and the coaches successful but i want i want to see players think for themselves instead of thinking that they've got the answer in a tablet. Now, if I'm not mistaken, Sam, they can't use laser finders on the PGA Tour for distance, right? Correct. Like there is a history of leagues limiting technology and saying, figure it out. That's part of the game is figuring out the opposition,

finding the patterns so there's some merit i you know i don't disagree with the the concept i don't know that it's changing things and that it's making teams that much better i actually think it's probably fairly ineffective because it was you you just said the snowflake thing you know there's there's plays just don't develop the same way. You're like, oh, I missed them on that two-on-one. Next time you get another two-on-one like that. Like, it doesn't really happen like that.

So the education can wait until after the game, and I'm not sure those guys are getting ahead anyway. You break the tie for us. Tablets or no tablets on the bench? I love what you guys are saying and agree, but if I'm playing in my beer league game tonight and I go off and there's a tablet of my shift, I'm 100% watching.

Yeah, but nobody else is. And you know you're also on my beer league game, of course. If I'm in the NHL and they have the technology. You really want to see yourself on film? 100%. It would become habitual. It's a screen. Here's the thing.

I'd be addicted to it, guaranteed. You only have so many attention points to give, right, Kipper? So if you're watching the screen to evaluate your own moment, you're missing the opportunity to evaluate your teammates' moments and be the guy who says next time your teammate comes, hey, every time you take it down the right side, that D is coming across and stepping up. you're missing the chance to help your teammates and learn yourself but this is where it's all been funneled to like when you think about now today's player my phone do you i just hate that it makes me look at

it yeah when my internet it's amazing maybe you don't look at it Yeah When we don't have the internet it's amazing Maybe you don't look at it all day except on our show Making me feel bad now The thing Hold on for a second I got a thought and I just want to finish it out Go for it That everything is skewed now Towards

Like this individual stuff Yeah I would bet today's player has spent more time with individual coaches collectively than he ever has with team coaches like over the course of the year or something or even in season from year to year yeah like they've got more skating coaches and fitness coaches and everything's geared towards their game individually. Yeah.

And it's away from one head coach sending 20 messages. They're used to one coach for one message to you and your game. But then you've got that one head coach that has to send 20 messages and it's less about that than it is about individual skills now today i actually think that this feeds into a greater point about the lack of team like when you thought of the new york islanders teams that won four cups in a row that was a group

of people that you were like who's on the islanders and you're like oh it's bossy and it's you know potvin and gillies and born and all those names but now with the salary cap if you're good like the lightning you know the tampa bay lightning of of this dynasty are like four guys in my mind right it's like headman and stamkos and Kucherov, you know, Vasilevsky. It's a handful of guys. It's not a collective team because you have to ship guys out every time. Yeah, Goodrow and Coleman were part of it,

but we can't afford them anymore. And so it's all individualized, Kipper, the point you're making where guys have to look out for themselves because they're expendable. They're not a part of a team anymore. You know, unless you're one of the great players in the league, you're not a part of a team anymore you know unless you're one of the great players in the league you're not a part of the team and that's you know this

toronto maple leafs team is the four guys riley not even the goalies and if you're the other guys you're just the other guys and so i don't think there is this sense of team like there used to be and there is an emphasis still with uh with the leafs particularly i know at times players got a little tired after a team practice but they would be uh pushed towards the other ice at uh at their practice facility go and work with their skills coach right yeah usually uh they'd be broken up into groups and so i used to make up the itinerary and and you each guy would go to a collection of people for 15 minutes, 15 minutes. And then team practice would start.

And team practice might be 30 minutes. And before the ice, there's an hour or so of people jumping around. I mean, practice was team practice and then practice was over. And then we'd go for liquid lunch. I'm not sure that was better. But the individualized stuff is not grueling or taxing so much as just you know an education and you know reps on one specific thing but all right on our youtube channel sportsnet put up a question what do you

think tablets on the bench or no tablets on the bench and i'm gonna press no tablets on the bench and i'm gonna see 66 say yes tablets on the bench well people are literally watching this on their tablet so you're at a pro screen audience here don't take away my tablet um something that oat said that i loved was guys that play on the backhand and him talking about the range on the backhand. Oh, God, Tricidal? I love backhand guys. That's, it's just, you know, reminds me of Sundin playing on the backhand so much. He's such a weapon.

And Sid, obviously, on the backhand, so good. Marner, and that's something that Marner has improved is his play on the backhand. And he talked about it with the range was an interesting way to put that. What do you use for a curve? Do you have a backhand? It's pretty, it's like a very stock. I love a hook. Like I like a good solid,

like the coffee of the Sherwood PMP coffee curve was my jam. So what, a curve halfway through your stick? Yeah, like just a mid curve. Actually like a toe, a good toe on it too. I really like that. But your forehand is useless. Oh, it's heel curve.

Oh yeah, like a wedge? Yeah. Yeah, I hated that. But I could get a backhand up. But most people like that, I really like that. But your forehand is useless. Oh, it's heel curve. Oh, yeah, like a wedge? Yeah. Yeah, I hated that. But I could get a backhand up. But most people like that. I think, yeah. I got enough of a flat blade to go bar in. I could go directly up.

Like if I could, in tight, I could get under it. But yeah, like making a backhand sauce or something, I was pretty useless at. I saw Luke Gazdik did a sauce or something, I was pretty useless at. I saw Luke Gazdik did a video. Yeah, it was cool. And it just showed the difference in dry sidles played.

And the David, right? It's like they're using a different piece of machinery. It's a completely different thing. Yeah, he's using a tennis racket out there. Yeah, the burger flipper is what he called it. It's insane. A couple of things. I know we're going to wrap up here soon.

I know we brought up the Jordan Binnington, but it got to a point where his own head coach, Craig Berube, weighed in on that. Just your overall thoughts on Jordan Binnington and then Berube coming in. I think he's a punk. I do. Like, you know, like even on my team. He's clearly not tough enough to go around there and start picking fights.

That's why it's hilarious to try to get in the lane of a stall brother and then just be like blown to bits. And yeah, that's kind of how it works. I think. No comment. I think I'm okay. No comment how? Is he an Owen Sound guy or something?

Only championship on sound Everyone was with him and Nett So nothing but bad things What happens now is that if If he starts going to it so often Then it's not It's a shtick Yeah you like a player

A competitive guy But not a guy who's Not only a competitive guy But it has to be sincere yeah and it has to come from um a real place anger for a reason not again like it's it's part of your thing now and that's where he's at and i'm glad craig berube called him out uh we have the quote, I believe. I'm sure it was already done behind the scenes, but that's next level stuff for Bruby to actually say it publicly that he just needs to focus on doing his job first.

It's got to stop. It doesn't help anything. We literally have the audio. Oh, well, that sounds better than me saying it. Was this a case of Jordan just getting frustrated there tonight? Yeah, pretty much. And it's got to stop. That doesn't help anything.

Pardon me? Doesn't help anything. Yeah, would you like him just to be more even keel? Just play goal. Stop the puck. I love Craig Rooney. But that's every coach in the league who says that. Just stop it. I don't who says that. Just stop it.

I don't care what else. Just stop it, okay? It doesn't strike me as the guy I'd want to have angered at me, Craig Berube. It doesn't seem like that would be a ton of fun to have him pissed off at you. No. Yeah. Speaking of coaches, looks like Tortorella's settling in nicely, eh, with the Philadelphia flyers with his

you guys ask dumb questions yeah i did catch it and you know what i thought that was stupid too we haven't forechecked we haven't done anything but listen if if people are asking stupid questions i'm fine with them getting called out the question was like to what do you ascribe the loss you know it was it was not a question yeah the effort i think were you okay with the effort was the last question i think but the first part was like you know why do you guys why do you think you guys lost yeah or something and then like you know were you okay with the effort yeah but are those dumb questions he has a he has a way of attracting the attention and i don't know if that takes away other attention and to a certain

extent philly kind of knew they weren't very good they did and when you go and get a guy like tortorella yeah this is what you paid for you paid for those theatrics if you don't get out of here this is what you pay for yeah and this is what happens when a GM doesn't believe or doesn't recognize that his team just needs to bottom out peacefully and, you know, is trying to prove

that the team is better than people think, right? Because Torts is a notorious ring the last drop out of every guy guy. He's not a go peacefully through the night, you know,

Charlie Montoya while the Jays are struggling type of manager so they they suck they suck suck they suck bad yeah crystalline and having a terrible year for them why did they sign him i don't know what was the turnover machine i truly though i think it's fletcher who thinks we're not that bad we're closer than people think and they're not they're bad there has to be an element though that uh you know for chuck fletcher to he's got to be to think that i'm not allowed to be bad i'm not allowed to send that message out you look in the stands it's not philadelphia flyer uh history uh where it's an automatic you're gonna sell out right and there's plenty of competition with the phillies and other dollars that are going out

and yeah we gotta look like we're in the race i uh i can't i'm just looking for the tweet right now but it was like you know you look at the teams in philadelphia and the 76ers trade for james harden who's an mvp and trey turner just signs with the phillies 300 million 300 schmills oh my god pretty decent 11 years 300 million dollars taking the age of 40 yeah it takes him to the age of 40 not bad and is he a fast guy he's a oh he's a nasty baseball player he He's really good. Short stop, great hitter. Yeah, quick, fast.

Oh, yeah. And that's the first thing to go. Vintage five-tool guy. You know, Eagles making big moves in this offseason. The Flyers go out and get Justin Braun and Nick DeLaurier. You know, it's just like in the city, they're losing that grip on people there. All right.

On the weekend also, are Elliott Friedman reporting that Brock Besser now has him and his agent have been granted permission to shop around. I'm like, hold on for a second.

You just signed this guy three years, almost 20 million, almost 20 million, and now, like, you want to get rid of him? They don have a plan not only do you know like when i hear that an agent has permission to go shop around that's when the team goes i don't know we're out of ideas yeah we're totally out of our ideas we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas and i'm sitting there going you just signed

him to 20 million dollars you signed him you signed miller and is it really the job of the agent now to go find a deal isn't that what you have a general manager for pat uh patrick alveen isn't that his job or how about this one uh you have cassie uh or uh cammy granado she's an assistant general manager you've got um emily uh casting casting gay she's a man like where's your hockey department to go find this trade what are you asking an agent to go out and shop the worst part is you know how are they going to get any return for a guy like besser besser i don't know if he's 26 something like that a guy who's can shoot it in the net and i know he can't stay healthy and all that but is they're not going to get any return kipper they got the agent out shopping for deals his his underlying numbers frankly look terrible he's got four goals in 19 games

and having a bad year the on top numbers don't look very good either. Yeah, so someone's going to buy him for cheap. Dash 13 so far. If someone buys him at all. And then this whole thing where he. No return coming for the Canucks. He was supposed to be a healthy scratch Saturday night. Bad luck, man. On a night that was very emotional for him.

How were they so oblivious? With the Rutherford and Boudreaux disconnect all season. So I'm not, I'm not even, I'm not even sure if, if like there's, there's a sense that Patrick Alvin didn't even know that Bruce Boudreaux was going to scratch him. And they must've gone to Boudreaux and been like,

Hey bud, like, you know, I forget where I heard this today. Damn it. I heard it somewhere too. But like, you know, I forget where I heard this today. Damn it, I heard it somewhere too. But like, you know, when all the Swedes started for the Leafs on Borja Salming's night, the Canucks played.

They got a bunch of Swedes who sat on the bench. They didn't, you know, Boudreaux was kind of unaware of the meaning of that night. And I understand that's a greater thing and it's a road game, but still. I don't know. I don't think the visiting team has no association with Boreasalmi I just don't think it's that hard to start Elias Patterson

yeah it's a lot less for me to worry about them starting Swedes on that type of night but I just I just look at this organization and I go it's just

one disaster after another, it seems, since they've started this season. And, like, what's next then? You know, like, it's a decade of, like, we're pretty close in, like, the OEL trade, trying to get, you know, him and Garland in. It's explosion time. It's explosion time. Garland's making five whatever and they're going to scratch him.

I think they did scratch him the other night. They've tried so hard to get rid of him garland yeah so there's another guy you're gonna get no return for because of his contract it's just really tough and what are besters numbers four goals in 19 games minus 13 and i mean he is a 25 3030 goal scorer, is he not? Yeah, I don't think he's ever scored 30 only because he gets hurt. 29, 27. Yeah, yeah, stuff like that. It's because he gets hurt. But yeah, he's a guy whose pace is consistently that of a 30-goal guy.

Besser makes $6.65 million per season. For two more years. Two more years. That's a bad contract, man. That's a bad contract. bad contract yeah i mean not a bad buy low guy if you're looking to take a risk is he you've criticized the uh the leafs left wing is there someone you want you no no hard pass for the boys i just think uh i don't think he's got the the wheels to kind of skate with the Leafs. Yeah, well, certainly don't want that contract and can't have that contract.

All right. Figured out nothing. We good? Yeah, I think we have to go immediately. Are we running out of time? Are the bands playing? Our thanks to Shane O'Brien and Adam Oates today. We're back tomorrow.

Justin Bourne at Kiprios. Have a good one, everybody.