Real Kyper & Bourne - Stars Aligned For Toronto And Matt Murray

Episode Date: December 7, 2022

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee recap the Maple Leafs' win over the Dallas Stars, Matt Murray's shutout performance, the fallout between the Ottawa Senators and Murray, and if Toronto should stick with Rasmus Sandin and Timothy Liljegren pairing. ESPN's Kristen Shilton drops by (42:24) to share her thoughts on whether the Leafs will be looking to add or move pieces from their roster, the potential spike in the NHL team's salary caps, and Kyle Dubas' pending contract. Then, Oilers Now's Bob Stauffer jumps on (1:06:00) to weigh in on Jack Campbell's struggles in net, how Edmonton can turn their season around, and Zach Hyman's addition to their roster. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. And the beat goes on. Remember that song? Is that the beat? And the beat goes on. I feel like we may be hitting an age conflict here. Yes, we are. If I'm not mistaken, that was a hit from sunny and share and i think

you and sammy weren't even sperm back then that's how long ago it was not not a recently dropped single no and yet mitch marner 20 games the leafs consecutive points and i believe 11 games sammy it is off the charts and a very i don't know dear dare i say impressive win by the toronto maple leafs for many different reasons it's not like they monty you got to drop in there derrick he said he hit the wrong button he hit the wrong button so they were doing okay you do there it is derrick i can't even get mad at him because he's been so good on his drop-ins probably for about a month month and a half now so when he screws up i i'm completely backing off him. Sorry, boys. That was a shogren errant pass. It's all right.

Sammy, is he out of the woods in his lineup lately? His lineup's been pretty solid. Oh, God. Don't read it too close. So what do we make out of last night's shutout by Matt Murray? 44 saves. Was it impressive? Was it not impressive?

Do we look at it and go you know the the hockey gods are are going for the toronto maple leafs right now they're getting all the bounces they're getting all the uh block shots they're getting all of this all of that uh or do you go yeah they they beat a pretty good team last night you know there there was a day when you could look at a road win and not care how it went and to me that there's got to be an element of that with that great performance by the leafs that was a heart effort game matt marie was unbelievable uh the money puck money puck.com with 5.97 you're jumping right into this dad are you not goal saved above expected matt marie's

performance versus dallas is the best for a goalie in a shutout since modern stats started, according to fancy numbers. And that was, I think, last February, modern stats started. Was it that recent? I don't know. I don't know. It does feel like that. Yeah, it does feel impossible. Go back to, like, in the mid-'80s and take one or two, you know, Grant Fuhrer games and plug in those numbers, or it's just impossible.

Right. But apparently, yeah, Ron Tugnut there at the big number. But, yes, apparently this is one of the more impressive. For money pucks now, does this kind of go into he had the greatest performance in nhl history and for 60 minutes he's the greatest goalie of all time he is he is now yeah hall of fame goalie but but it really was an unbelievable showing for murray if not murray played for arizona and beat dallas last night for nothing would we be speaking of uh would money puck actually uh bother to put the number crunch those numbers?

I don't know. We're talking about old Vig Melka. But it really was a great game. And particularly on the penalty kill, right? Your best penalty killer is always your goaltender. Dallas had seven power plays last night. So, shout out to Matt Murray. Unbelievable showing.

Looked rock solid. All right, Sammy. Sorry, boys. I was doing something show related that I had to run. Are you right, Sammy. Sorry, boys. I was doing something show-related that I had to run. Are you good, Sammy? I'm back. I'm back. Okay.

Listen, we cannot gauge the temperature of this thing until we hear from you. Oh, boys. I am completely all in on Matt Murray. How could you not be? I'm like, you know, at my core, I'm a fan of the team, and the team is playing really well and one of the main reasons is elite professional goaltending and that's something that the leafs haven't had except last year in the start of the season i guess was it

till the end of december that um that uh jack was good yeah around now around now is when it kind of turned it wasn't good. So cautionary tale here maybe, but I right now am all in on believing in this. The juice is good. I'm worried still. Still. Still every shot that goes across crease or every stretch or every guy that crashes into him, which seems to be five a game now, I'm worried about him in terms of injury.

Yeah, I can't say when Mason March marchman put austin matthews onto his chest i thought he was gonna just get up and play goal after that but outside of that like it's i mean and he he couldn't like i said he couldn't imagine this he's got that classic goaltender look where he's just playing the percentages he's square to the shooter blocking goalie i'm i'm big or at least my equipment is my equipment is i'm taking my chances that i'm in the right spot it's going to hit me and uh it it has if if it gets through yeah and i mean pretty quiet yeah if it gets through is a good point a lot of shot blocking last game but yeah the um post to post he looks pretty good the net staying on the moorings

even with that so shout out to matt murray after uh you know the first game of the year there were some punchline vibes about this guy right you know coming out of ottawa and he comes here as a bad first game and then gets injured it was it was ugly is it there's two sides to this that you're genuinely excited if you're a leaf fan for for what matt has brought and what you hope will continue um but there's the other side that says hey isn't it kind of like the same record playing that uh we spun last year with Jack Campbell were we not in the same position of speaking of Jack Campbell and what he was able to do in the historic numbers that he was able to stretch out going into a all-star appearance and there's no question that matt murray's on that same trajectory of he will play in the all-star game in january in the nhl his road save percentage is best in the nhl among

goalies have played 300 plus minutes so like he's an all-star right now feels the same though doesn't it like so these fans have played this picture before with their goaltender but if i'm a leaf fan i'm like all this guy has to be is not the worst in the league and you with their goaltender but if i'm a least fan i'm like all this guy has to be is not the worst in the league and you have better goaltending on some for the year and the other side of sammy's not worried about not being uh or being one of the worst in the league he's just worried about him being healthy right my number one concern is health with him no doubt and i think that's why that's the number one thing that concerns me with him but i also think when we talked about Jack last year,

we also talked about how he'd never proven himself as a starting goalie in the NHL. And like this was his hottest stretch and it was his best stretch of hockey he's ever played. I don't know if that's the case for Matt Murray right now. He's played really good for a lot of years for good teams and won cups. And the pedigree of a starting nhl goaltender who knows the ups and downs and everything is there and that wasn't there with jack campbell i would say that last night that's the key difference for me when you're making the comparison about it falling off a cliff last year like there's one thing coming to toronto and

wanting to impress the fans not be fall into their bad books but there's another thing okay you establish yourself as the guy and it's like he's been in big pressure spots he's won as you mentioned stanley cups he's he has that to fall back on and campbell didn't when the bottom started to drop out and that's an excellent point and i would think that uh if you're the ottawa senators yet again coming off a loss cam talbot struggled last night do you not look at matt murray and go like what the listen no way matt murray looks like this in ottawa behind that say it sammy let's say it as a toronto maverick fan i've taken a lot of joy in ottawa senators failures but having the ottawa senators pay a quarter of his contract and give the leafs a

draft pick to take them and now he's got the second best say percentage in the nhl and he's starring for his favorite team which is the toronto maple leafs and the senators are having goaltending that i think they got a 670 say almost almost as good as knocking them out in a playoff round what the the sends yeah and and matt murray like like that would be fun what uh i don't think they're gonna be in the no no no no i i'm saying where does this rank for you in terms of rubbing it in ottawa's face for you is this equivalent to almost knocking them out of the playoffs yeah maybe i you know i just watched hockey so much differently when they were knocking the the sentence out of the playoffs it's just such a different thing than it was then but i back when you had joy and we're free yeah when i didn't

have to like stare at my phone and hear a bunch of people's opinions i don't care about telling me what's wrong with the team but uh yeah i just it's a different time but i think it's pretty sweet and i think a lot of leaf fans are taking laps on it. It is quite remarkable that we're talking this time last year. If we're talking about how great Jack Campbell was this time last year, this is probably the time you were ripping on Matt Murray in Ottawa. Yeah. And to the point where he's sent to the minors. Like, it is quite remarkable.

The up, the down, and then the back up. This is the thing that nobody has goaltending figured out, which is, I think, why Dubas would say he made the bet he made, is that anyone kind of in this realm that has some pedigree, you know, they can have a good year at any given time, and you just got to put those guys in a position to succeed and cross your fingers. And I don't know.

You almost wonder, again, if you're a projected owner now and you want to go and kind of do a forensic thing on the Ottawa Senators, like, wouldn't you want to revisit that whole thing? So what happened here? Why? So that guy who's good for them that I'm paying. I'm about to spend a billion dollars on this team, and you're the general manager.

Yeah. And we had this guy, and now he's on Toronto's team. Can you explain to me what happened there? I'd say, hey, Pierre Dorio, isn't Pierre Dorio a loyal guy? Didn't we establish you're a loyal guy? Doesn't seem very loyal. One thing about Pierre Dorio, Pierre Dorio is very loyal. It doesn't seem like you're very loyal to that Doesn't seem very loyal. One thing about Pierre Dorian. Pierre Dorian was very loyal. It doesn't seem like you're very loyal to that good player.

We get Matt Murray on to ask him if that's true. So you thought Cam Talbot was better. So explain that thought process. Yeah, just walk me through how we got to this conclusion. That's true. Listen, they obviously. No victory laps here on Murray. Oh, no, no, no.

You know Ottawa fans are listening to our show right now going... Wait. Just wait. Yeah, just wait. Wait when Sammy's goaltenders in traction in March. I think it's probably a lot of sour grapes on both sides when it comes to Murray and the Sens. I'm sure they're pretty sick of him,

and he was probably pretty sick of them. So good on Dubas for taking advantage of a situation where he thought that he could get something out of him but yeah yeah listen over under two and a half weeks missed for the rest of the year for matt murray over my my sins fan buddy text me he said yeah everything's great you just have to hope he doesn't sneeze wrong from here till you know january and you'll be fine can happen yeah bumped a couple of games that's good for him a to get bumped and get back up and good for his confidence i think so and those are some healthy runs that uh you know i mean he was he had enough time to kind of brace himself a little bit maybe just put his body in a position where he could absorb a lot of it but it hasn't really affected him to

close out games i think those are all excellent signs no i do too and yeah again it's about his confidence and feeling like he's back established as a guy and that should help all right let's go to uh sheldon keep on uh his star goaltender matt murray it's perfect you know he's perfect on the score sheet it's perfect in the game Came out with huge saves and big moments. Obviously, the number of penalties we took today could have been a real problem for us, but Murr was really solid. That five-on-three is incredible.

So, yeah, he was outstanding. Happy for him. Let's just jump into the five-on-three, and then we'll break down Sheldon's comments. Hold on. You're hoping that they're going to take a shot and allow our goalie to freeze it and reset. You know, just the number of penalties we had taken there, we were really asking for trouble, obviously. But, I mean, I can't stand off about how our guys competed, you know.

Whether it's Mitch in that case, no stick. He's doing all that he can to help us. And our defensemen back there, not only did they kill a 5-1-3, but you got Geo and Halsey, the two guys in the box. And so we're asking Sandy and Lily out there. And to me, those guys had an incredible game time. Like, those two young guys took on a lot here tonight and were really, really good. That end of second period sequence was crazy.

You know, that's hockey. You've got to throw caution to the wind and just play. It felt like playoff hockey there didn't it where you're just uh at that point of of your season where you feel like everything's on the line it's it's kind of hard to kind of believe that we were talking about end of november early december yet it had that kind of feel that desperate feel to block a shot or get a puck out or do whatever you have to do to keep it out very golf they don't ask how they ask how many it's just like something you just got to block a shot or get a puck out or do whatever you have to do to keep it out very golf they don't ask how they ask how many it's just like something you just got to find a

way the funniest part of that whole thing to me because it was a wild sequence but at the end of it when the whistle when the horn goes sandin skated over to murray like they had won the game he like he like went over to him and like kind of put his arm of put his arm around him. You celebrate when a guy scores a goal. If you can't go put your arm around a goalie after that. I thought it was hilarious the way it looked. He just was like, yeah, oh my God, it feels like we won. Well, he didn't kill the penalties since he was 17 years old or something. What did we say?

Another seven penalties or something? What was it? Dallas had the second or third best power play coming into the game in the league, and they went 0 for 7. 0 for 7. Yeah. Yeah, also Mitch Marner on the power play

on the penalty kill was better than any Dallas player on the power play. That helped. The amount of creating... He read another one where they tried to bump it back in their own zone, and Marner just sees it before everyone else and says, thanks.

It's like a safety intercepting passes downfield or something might have to decline that when you play against marner you might have to decline a penalty yeah i mean it's that good you know we're gonna talk tonight um doing a little television tonight about mcdavid killed penalties for the first time basically this year the other day shorthander right was really good and thinking of guys around the league who are so good at creating these situations it's basically marchand uh bergeron and marner you know that are so dangerous both ways they're they got to be the best at it most of the penalties you're you're okay with the one that just you kind of shake your head and you know the the decor have

been terrific as a group and we're going to talk a little bit more about lilligran and sandin but uh then you know you you watch justin hall who's come back and played some big minutes for them and provided him but the the brain cramp of grabbing the puck and throwing it is the one that tells me that every once in a while, this guy could just do

something out of the ordinary. I think we all can. No, no, no, not like that. That was the most tired brain move I've ever seen. It was just... I don't know another word. No, it's a brain fart. Dumb.

Yeah, it was. Totally dumb. But he's not that type of guy typically. Like, that is so out of character. I think of him as a fairly cerebral guy. It was just like... I don't know where it came from. Maybe it's because you're playing in Dallas.

Maybe he's trying to bat it and he grabs it and you know that don't make no sense i don't know it's they love their cowboys so i want to look like a quarterback i don't know he did get to the box and you just see him being like what did i just do yeah ray ferraro on the broadcast was like oh he saw the free agent uh prices for pitching and he wanted to uh he wanted to test his arm you know in liar liar jim carrey has that scene where he's like i've had better i didn't can't believe he said it that was justin hall in the box he was just like what have i what have i done what's wrong

with me yeah anyway all right uh is that the best we've seen out of sandin and lilligren if if we would have talked about these two guys being a pair at the beginning of the season, we would have just looked at each other like we all had three heads. I know. And now... Lilligren, 25-57. It's starting to feel like this is a legit thing.

And could we possibly see in the second half this continue into a run in the playoffs where we see Sandin and lilligren paired i always felt like they couldn't play together because there was no physical element known to clear the net front you know who's going to i worry about them both kind of taking chances up the rink it didn't feel like they could work together and i think their games have evolved to where they can work together like lillilligren, 26 minutes last night, seven and a half minutes of penalty kill time.

Like how good did Lilligren look? Just you were saying coming in today, how impressed you were with him? Yes. Yeah. I thought the poise that he has now compared to what we saw all last season, like it's night and day. Let's go to Sheldon on his young pair on the blue line. I think you learn a lot about their character.

The team needs them to step up in a big way, and they've done exactly that. Those guys played hard today. They played a lot of minutes tired, too. You're down to five defensemen. One's Connor Timmons, who's playing his first game with us and not taking on a whole lot. So a lot's falling on those two young guys.

We've come to expect Gio and Hall to do a really good job for us, but those two have really stepped up here today. Like I said, they played hard. They moved the puck well. They were physical, competitive, and they're doing it a lot on half a tank, you know, and the bottom of their tank a lot of times. So, yeah, impressive.

Yeah, it is impressive. But then just something that you just said that kind of still, and this can't be answered during the regular season it can't but you know if they're tired and exhausted now what will it look like in a best of seven against a dallas or tampa bay hopefully they're playing 15 minutes not 25 that point is injuries penalties there are nights again where the type of game that we saw last night could factor in at a game two game three game four yeah and physically will there always be that element that we don't know until we know yeah i think so you know it's just not enough

time to see him in enough situations to know that they're over the hump. I mean, the good thing is Sandin went from, how bad did Sandin look for the first five hockey games this year or whatever? He looks good. He looked really good in physical, you know, scores a goal, killing penalties. So, yeah, it's tough to say what they're going to look like that far down the road. But didn't that to you kind of, like that was the most eye-opening game for me with those two guys so

far that they could handle that like i mean they've played well for this whole stretch since riley and brody have been out i think i think they've kind of been gaining confidence every game it's been good for them to have these opportunities but i think last night was the most eye-opening game to me where i was like oh okay these guys could legitimately play together as a third pair in a playoff series because wow. That's the type of team you're going to be going against in the playoffs. Like you said, it's a big team, and they handled the physicality. I even thought that Sandin threw his weight around a little bit. He did.

Lilligren, too. So I don't like them playing 20. What did you say Lilligren ended up? 26. Yeah, maybe not that much in a playoff series. Maybe not kill McCartney. If he's playing that. But, like, if he's maybe not that much in a playoff series. Maybe not kill McCartney. But, like, if he's playing 17 or 18 in a playoff series, I think I'm okay with it.

We did get a little sample size of the big fish eating the little fish last night when Victor Mete left the game early. Yeah. In terms of why he left the game or? Well, no, that a bigger team likes to still attack uh smaller players on yeah that put the team in a tough spot too because it was timmon's first game as a maple leaf and all of a sudden the time on ice numbers halls 26 minutes you know sandin's 24 geos 23 and a half like yeah and timmons debut. Yeah. The first thing you notice outside of him falling.

Yeah. On a front. I don't know. He had skate issues. Poor guy wore rollerblades in the first period. Hey, wear skate guards. I thought somebody maybe put the tape trick on the bottom of his blade or something. This guy was grew up.

I think he's a Toronto guy. He has to skate. Oh, yeah. Like, grew up, die up diehard leaf fan like dreams of this moment finally after two weeks of sit on the sideline gets into the game and he just falls like when he falls like a child yeah i actually to be honest sda did in his first shift too went to go get going up the ice and just fell randomly it's like nerves it's got to be nerves i fell too my first game is a leaf but it was in a morning practice because doug gilmore untied my skate when i wasn't looking come on oh yeah thanks doug yeah i'm on the bench waiting for line changes right we're doing line rushes yeah and he's talking to me pretending to tie his own to tie his own skate

he's untying mine and now i'm out there to get the wobbles and the next thing you know i'm falling and there's pat the late pat burns looking at me like like you can't even skate can you send him back yeah can we still get the buck that's pretty terrible to do to a guy who's trying so hard to make a good impression like that's crummy you know that is that era though so it may be somebody did something no i don't think so i don't think but hey for timmons i thought you know we didn't talk about it before the show i thought he came around yes you know i that first period was rough but i thought he had a good second and a great third made some good plays with the puck nice to see a guy back there who's six foot two

wasn't it all right let's get uh sheldon on sDA and Timmons. Timmons. Well, tough games. No, it is Timmons. Sorry. He just said the sheets. Why did you spell Timmons? Oh, God. What is wrong with you? I just wanted to bust this.

Thanks, guys. No worries. Let's get on with the show. I almost said it, too. You know he'll say anything you write on the teleprompter. All right, let's do it. Well, tough games to really, really evaluate them in, to be honest. There's long stretches between their shifts.

I thought Timman in particular definitely got better as the game wore on, the more reps he got. Very smart guy with the puck. I thought he moved the puck very efficiently. He makes a real good defensive play in the third period where Ben's coming in with a ton of speed, and he really gets in his way and slows him up. That was really good to see.

So to that end, you know, I think I'm happy with his performance. I thought with STA, tough to evaluate him today. We really liked the defensive play he made on his very first shift, protecting the net and broke up a play. Aside from that, you know, there wasn't a whole lot happening. But, again, tough day to play your first NHL game where you're sitting for long periods of time watching the special teams. The one thing that is instantaneous when you look at him, he's big.

He's bigger. Timmons. Yeah. And he's a right-handed shot. Yeah. What a combo. You're in, kid. A nice different look. Yeah. I mean. You're in, kid. A nice different look.

Yeah, I agree. And, you know, he made some nice breakout passes. You know, like I said, rough first period where it didn't always connect. But, you know, give him some time to get his feet under him. By all accounts, he's got pedigree, some size, right shot. And if Sammy's worried about Matt Murray staying healthy, that's the number one thing with this guy. I think he missed a full year.

Yeah. I mean, he makes Kasha look durable. Oh, man. And that's just it with him. Yeah. He has to stay healthy. He has to go on a run. And to show that he can get into that swing again,

because he was a top prospect. He's going to run out of time, unfortunately, with this team. Like when Brody comes back, you know, I guess Mete's hurt, you know, so maybe he can stay in for a little bit because I'd like to see him get a run of hockey games where you just get a sense of if you can use him come playoffs. I got to be honest. I already like him more than I like Mete.

Yeah. You know, like he's big and skates and has a right-handed stick. if you can use him come playoffs. I gotta be honest. I already like him more than I like Mate. Yeah. You know? Like, he's big and skates and has a right-handed stick. The old, like, Kipper just taught us yesterday to not say, I'm not trying to be a Neanderthal, but, like, without saying that, which I just kind of... You know, big is good.

He's big. It's nice. Nice to see him look like a hockey player out there. I want to go to... I want to talk a little Sheldon Keefe, but let's listen to him on this recent stretch of we can't do anything wrong. Just the resilience, I would say, you know, the resilience of our group and goaltending, you know, like the goaltending has been really good and given us a chance, you know,

when we've been overwhelmed a little bit at times and with our injuries, you come to expect that that's going to happen at times. You're going to need big plays from, you know, from our guys, whether that's the goalies or whether that's our game breakers on forward. But just the resilience of the group on how they've defended when they need to, come up with big goals at key times when we need to, whether it's today. Our first period was not good here today, but we got our chances and we made good on them,

so that's big. Look at the power play goal we scored in Tampa in the third period when we really needed a power play goal. Those guys go out and get it for us to make sure we get a point. So just the resilience, as I reflect on this stretch that we've been through speaks a lot to the character and the growth of the group because we relied on guys, especially on defense to play in spots that

they hadn't in a lot of cases. Whether it's Sandy Lilligren that we've talked about or Holloway, Mete, Timmons tonight. That's a really good sign and very healthy for our team. Is this the best stretch of coaching we've seen out of sheldon keep since he's been named yes it is i had that same thought last night where i was like you know you're missing three pretty significant defenders

and you're on the road playing a team that's tops in their division and you know so i got i get this thing from sport logic after the game just like you know general sort of stats and you know a little bit deeper stuff last night at even strength the dallas stars had the puck in the leaf zone for way more time than the leafs had in theirs they had it in there's over 20 minutes and they barely had an expected goal like the leafs had three expected goals off their small amount of zone time so dallas even when they're in the zone they defended really well keeping them outside not giving them anything dangerous yeah the one thing that uh has been so noticeable over the last uh run of consecutive points that the leafs have been able to pick up is how everything is inside to the outside.

Come back to the middle. Come back to the middle and push everything. Either block the shot or it gets pushed back out to the walls. Let him shoot it from out there. And if it's not getting through to Matt Murray, he's there when it does. But there are a lot. Dallas may have been in the zone for a long time, but they could not get it to the middle of the ice

and really have some clean looks to create second and third chances. Yeah, and that's a good point too. The follow-up chances are not there where he makes a save and all of a sudden he's scrambling and it's you know more and more and more um just to have just for sheldon to have buy-in on that yeah and have everybody everybody contribute there's a lot of people who are willing to fire this guy a month ago and hopefully the the tune has changed a little bit um you know they're now third in the eastern conference in winning percentage behind boston and the new jersey devils so quality climb here from the old leafers it does feel like a million years ago with this stuff at the start of the year

it's just tough to believe you can watch that team play like they did here and during this stretch and think about that California road trip. I don't, like, I'm not just saying this because we talked about it a lot, but I don't think you were unfair in the thoughts that we had. No. At that point.

Well, they were just underperforming. They were awful. Yeah, they were awful. Awful. They were awful. And, you know. Good question about why. We still don't really have that answer. Well, I'll tell you why. Becauseful. They were awful. And, you know. Good question about why. We still don't really have that answer.

Well, I'll tell you why. Because their stars weren't stars. Right. That's why. Yeah. And with all due respect, their four guys who are making $40 million are playing like they're,

there's a reason why we asked for half the salary cap. Yeah. And they are carrying the team. It's the only way this whole thing works, the Dubas Belt, is if those four guys are exceptional and they get goal-taped. They're not. I still look at other teams, and I'll use New Jersey as an example. Like they have four, I think, really good lines right now.

Solid, yep. And they will roll four lines. And Lindy is in a position where if his fourth line is out against a first line, he's not overly concerned. He might be seeking that matchup. I don't get the same feeling from Sheldon Keefe. Still searching for what their fourth line is exactly yeah so you know is is there a chance that for the next

you know 50 55 games that you are asking mitch marner to do what he's been doing right in the last month and a half i mean you may miss a game or two but generally yeah and tavaris like do they constantly have to be like at the top of their games pushing as hard as they're pushing right now all season long and then to do it for four rounds to try to win a stanley cup that's that's i don't know of a team who gets lets their top guys not have to play well you know like that's just the formula they have here. Unless they start to get... Like, Pierre Engvall, is he ever going to be a different guy?

He's not. You know, Alex Kerfoot, I don't know what's up with his season. So that's what I was just going to bring up. When you have this model that the Leafs have with the big four that they're paying all the money to, then you have to find value throughout the rest of your lineup, which I think Dubas has done a pretty good job doing.

You know, you look at Giordano, what he's given them, Bunting, what he's given them, Kampf, what he's given them. But then you look at the combined salaries of the two guys in the bottom six that make the most, and they're arguably giving you the least. When you look at Engvall, what's he make? 2.25? Yeah. And so it's almost a combined $6 million this year between those two guys. And how many goals they have?

Four combined? Yeah. Like, how many? Oh, so Kerfoot had his second last night, the one that he pool-queued. Does that count? I actually think he tried to pass that. I thought he was chipping it. Does that count?

No. Last time on Least Talk, JD and I both agreed it doesn't count. So we both agreed that we've got to scrub that one for the record. And then I just, it's got to be frustrating for the front office and the coaching staff that they're getting value from all these different parts of the lineup, and then the two guys that you're paying the most in your bottom six are giving you almost nothing.

Giving back that value. It's the only thing that still has to be a concern for Brendan and Kyle Dubas is that is this the way we want, is this the look that we want for the rest of the season to just go so heavily? And again, I just, I worry about Mitch Marner being the guy that has to kill every penalty. And what will be left in march and april for these guys to kick it in now and say oh by the way do it every other night for two months and try to win

us a stanley cup yeah i mean as last night the highest time on ice for a leafs forward is marner at 23 even the second highest ice time was 16 59 by john tavarez six minutes behind uh mitch marner marner granted you know he's in the top 10 in time on ice among forwards there are guys who do this this much i think a fair question is about the pk and if you think elite players should do it because austin matthews doesn't do it you know and he How many minutes for Austin, by the way? Last night he was 16 and change. But he's averaged over 20 on the year, which is, you know, two less than... He doesn't kill, right?

He just doesn't kill. So he's sitting there all night. But should he kill? So this is a question about McDavid, who leads the league in time on ice per game. He's so good at it, and he creates chances. But do you want... It's like when Tortorella put the sedins on the pk yeah do you want these guys draining their batteries in that situation when you could have other guys do that but i mean i have no doubt matthews would be good at it well you keeps watching what marner's doing

he's the coach he wants to win games you're addicted to that yeah what do you do not play the guy who's going to help you win that shift it's like you're watching him you are if you're told for sure for sure but he's the coach he's on the bench you're trying to kill a penalty and he's like we were talking about one of the best in the world at doing it you're probably gonna be pretty tempted to put him out there a lot in that situation you know what it would be ridiculous to say to a coach you can't use the guy who's good at this thing in this situation it's a hard conversation to have and i think do you think mitch would want to like do you think he's not basketball though these guys cannot be out there every second marner would prefer to not

kill penalties i think there's a part of him that really enjoys it for sure i just would be i wouldn't take it away from him i'd just be really selective because i just don't see how you could replace those minutes with other minutes did we not see and and then on the other side did we not see them control all of two minutes on the power play but they they sucked up all the two minutes on the power play last night well did you see the power play to their first attempt on the power play, but they sucked up all the two minutes on the power play last night. Well, did you see the power play two, their first attempt at a power play? Vile. It was awful.

So the next time they went out there, PP1 was like, we're just going to do the two. So now you've got- Call you later. Now you've got the guy just playing his regular minutes, sucking up all the power play time, and now he's got to do it all on the penalty kill. If he was lower than seventh in the NHL among time on ice, among forwards, you would be in here screaming about how he's not playing.

There's a fine line. There's somewhere. There's a balance. I don't want him playing less than he's playing. I love his ice time right now. But you're right. It's just the wear and tear off of it that's all would you like to see them play him this much but give him a few nights off throughout the year load management no kawaii lebron because i'm telling you uh when little johnny spends 400 bucks to go see the game

he wants to see mitch marner i'm the coach i don't care speaking of which i hope you don't have premium tickets to tonight's lakers doctors games because uh lebron james and anthony davis are not playing wow in toronto yeah did you get your money back off the extra push for that i don't think so yeah probably it is super crummy worth a little less on the resale market as well i would say yeah anyways just thought i'd bring that up as a as an interesting parallel yes yes indeed but i just i don't know all right i i can't imagine keep play less mitch not legitimately a heart candidate right now let's play a little less matthew's had as as good of a shift as we've seen all year last night how about the defense on his goal that dallas, though? I tweeted about it today.

Glenn Denning, holding the middle as the weak side winger, sees Matthews come right down the gut and goes, I better take care of Giordano up by the wall. And that's Austin Matthews. Keep down the gut. If you come to the bench and the coach has got to be like, what? Like, tell me what you're thinking. I don't know.

Great play by Matthewsews though to dog the puck from hock and pod get the chance on the previous rush better look for matthews last night yeah yeah definitely he was but again you're right kipper he played actually i had his ice time wrong he was 15 and a half minutes 15 and a half did you see did you see the board uh they put up during the broadcast last night and they hate it they start players that don't kill penalties they sit there and watch games players that don't kill penalties. They hate sitting there. Oh, it's awful.

Did you know the board? The board with the defensive touches per game for forwards in the NHL. They put it up. It was an interesting one. 8.7 defensive touches per game for Matthews. By far the most in the league. Really? Yeah.

Since November 1st. Yeah, he's really good at stopping the stopping the cycle who's second is it mitch mitch meyer yeah 7.5 and you know who's third not nick robertson it's barikov and fourth is david kampf at 6.9 wow yeah uh nick robertson is last in all their defensive stats. Each and every one of them. This is a quick one before we go to break. How many minutes for Nick last night? Nick got 10 minutes. Just a quick one before we go to break. I got to ask.

Like, you really got to bench Nick? Five minutes left in the game? Up three? You're up three. Totally agree. You do not need to take him off that line in that scenario. I guess I get, like, get like the internet of the lineup but i understand him not playing as much and like i'm on sheldon's cute side with the nick robertson thing i really am but like that last night seemed

a little bit excessive to me no kipper you're looking at me like i'm an idiot yeah no no no no uh listen he's he's getting opportunities now because Yarncroft's out. They will get healthy. It's going to be a tough call here on where you go with Nick in his development. I wrote a thing today on Shane Wright and basically said that sometimes you just need these guys to go have a fresh look. Like just go step away from the league for a second.

Go, you know, come back in a little bit here and try again. And kind of feel that way about robertson he just needs to go get some touches go play some hockey be the guy for a bit i don't know by the way i just want before we go did you see the play last night where william neilander was getting leaned on in the neutral zone of the puck and he put his stick in his other hand and just like big dog the guy and kept skating to the middle what a hockey player that guy is what a year he's having a contract looks pretty good right now dominant yeah he's just starting to get it really get it uh the consistency yeah that's it he's just he's not disappearing on long stretches now we haven't had that conversation at all this year with the

disappearing he's just been good yeah like he's it's been when he's gone he's gone right he's going all the time just a quiet he's coming in behind marner he's coming in behind tavaris matthews is matthews and he's just in his sweet spot right now yeah that's where he wants to be he wouldn't want want to be the main guy. No, no, no, no. It's too much. All great teams that win Stanley Cups have that guy. Yes. Phil Kessel and the Penguins. We'll take, maybe.

No, not a third line checker. Okay. Maybe. All right. Kristen Shilton, ESPN, is going to come up and answer a few questions. And we'll ask her about a conversation we had the other day on Dubas' contract extension. I think it's a good time now after that win last night. Maybe to revisit.

Show me the money. We'll ask Kristen after the break. You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. Back after these words. This is real Kipper and born on sports net five 90. The van also Bob staffer will join us. Stopper stopper.

You did it. You got it. That's my Eastern accent. He's out West. Stafford. We don't... We got to go to out West more. We do. I think the show was...

They were planning to fly us out there to cover... Stop it. No, I totally made that up. Yeah, as you should. I think I'm jumping on a plane for this show. Are you nuts? I'm not going anywhere. Oh, I see. I see. All jumping on a plane for this show. Are you nuts? I'm not going anywhere. All right, let's welcome her in.

She's been on the show before. She's fantastic. Let's bring in Kristen Shilton from ESPN. Kristen, how are you? I'm good, thanks. How are you guys? We're good. We're good.

So what do you think of the Leafs? Just in general? Just in general? Just in general because, you know, we're not used to the love fest here on the Leafs. I'm not that comfortable with it, to be honest with you. Yeah, it kind of feels a little off almost we're talking about. It's a Leaf team that just had one of their most dominant wins, you could say, over a really good Dallas Stars team

that's been really strong throughout this year has one of the best players in the league a hard trophy front runner and Jason Robertson and what you saw last night was just a stellar performance from Matt Murray a great overall team effort and exactly I think a depiction of what the Leafs want to be this season is just hard to play against. They got their contributions across the board. They played good defense. They obviously got great goaltending.

And, you know, it wasn't perfect, but it doesn't need to be. And that's where, you know, I think the Leafs have gotten caught up in themselves in the past, is just trying to, you know, really stick to, like, oh, we have to do this. We have to play this way. But now they're just kind of letting the game come to them, and it's really starting to show in the way they're able to string some of these wins together. So I thought the slower start to the season would be a good thing for the Leafs.

I thought the adversity might help them a little bit just to understand what they would have to do to be successful this year and buy into the defensive side and make that a team effort and now that uh you know they've got their goalies healthy and obviously defensively you know things are going better than you could have expected given who's missing so uh you know the sooner obviously tj brody can get back uh you know up and running uh the better but all good things right now from Toronto. So much of the season in the previous six-year playoff or runs towards the playoffs has been figure out what the team is missing and then go buy it at the deadline.

Try to bring in Nick Foligno for edge, try to bring in a third string goalie, whatever it may be. Where do you think the Leafs are on that this year? Do you think they're a team that's going to be bringing in multiple different bodies that they don't have in the roster right now? And, you know, is there anywhere in do you think they're a team that's going to be bringing in multiple different bodies that they don't have in the roster right now and you know is there anywhere in particular you think that they may be looking to add well i'm i'm intrigued by what you kind of just said is is that do they look back at some of the moves that they've made in recent years and thought yeah it was worth it like was it worth you know obviously you know, obviously Nick Foligno being injured

the way that he was, that wasn't, you know, that wasn't in his control. But at the same time, you give up assets for that and you make these decisions and you think that they're going to have a big impact. And when was the last time that the Leafs really went out and they got somebody just as a rental, you know, at the end of the year and that player really had, you know, a huge impact and made a real difference for them that was worth sort of what they gave up and and you know maybe that's something that they do take into consideration and just question look you don't know what what at this point is

going to happen with Jake Muzzin he's going to be re-evaluated uh down the road in February obviously his health his family is what matters the most and will dictate that decision. But do you look for another body for defense in the playoffs? Is that something that you think you can find at a reasonable price? And I guess it really just depends on what is the health of the rest of the roster, and that's physically and mentally. Where's everybody kind of at when you get to that trade deadline piece? Because there is a mentality of, you know, we've got to go all in. And the only way to go all in is going out and getting Jacob Chikrin or, you know, going after, you know, John Klinberg or whoever it's going to be. And it just I just don't know how often that works out to the point where it's worth what you have to give up in order to make those kinds of deals happen so uh where the Leafs are at right now you would think hey you know things

are going along pretty well uh everyone's really come together they're sort of pulling on the same rope so to speak and you don't feel like there needs to be a lot of change and I think if you're you know the front office of this team of course you know you have to win you know you're, you know, the front office of this team, of course, you know, you have to win, you know, you're kind of on a ticking clock, but at the same time, sometimes it's nice to just dance with the partner you brought and see where it gets you as opposed to, you know, putting those assets on the line and trying to be aggressive and finding out that, you know, what injuries happen, things happen. And, you know,

you want to guard against that. You want to have depth, but the Leafs seem to have some pretty good depth from what we're seeing so maybe they don't need a lot of other bodies coming in we're talking to ESPN's Christian Shilton as we go in the next couple of weeks towards a Christmas freeze are there enough sellers right now to start making some noise or do we have to wait till we turn the calendar? You know, that cap situation for so many teams just makes it so unlikely that you're going to see, you know, a lot of buyers on the other side. I'm sure there are sellers. I'm sure that there's teams that are like, Hey,

you know, we're open, like let's do a deal. But the, the top teams, the ones that will be more inclined around the trade deadline to make some moves, they just don't have the cap space necessarily in order to pull that trigger too soon. and how they're going to play out just because of, you know, so many different factors that maybe, you know, in the pre-pandemic era, you wouldn't have thought you'd be dealing with in this particular season. So I don't know that we'll see a lot of action unless there's, you know, a specific injury that a team is trying to cover for, or they really feel like if we don't do this deal now, it's not going to be available to us down the road. But I don't know how many of those even really exist, because, again, the teams that would want to make a bigger move,

they just might have to wait until they get closer into February, into the spring and kind of see where they're at and what they might need to make a real push. And that's, you know, you look at a team like Colorado, for example, that suddenly has got, you know, an injured list a mile long. You know, those are the types of teams that maybe they would be more inclined to perhaps do something sooner than later. Maybe they'd want to be a buyer. Maybe they'd be talking to some of those seller teams. But I wouldn't be holding my breath for a Christmas miracle at this point

that we're going to start seeing a lot of traction before that freeze goes into place. Kristen, the concern then for these teams is that the salary cap makes deals impossible. Do you get a sense, you know, we'd heard that maybe the cap was going to go up. Do you think that by the end of or the start of next season, we're going to see a significant spike?

I think that Gary Bettman would certainly enjoy seeing, you know, having that happen. And obviously it's good for business. The more teams can spend and the more exciting it is, the more action there's going to be, the more players are getting involved in higher salaries, et cetera. I mean, it's good for business, definitely. But whether it's going to be that $4 million bump that we've heard about, I think that might be stretching it a little.

But, you know, at some point here, there is going to be a reverse course. It's probably going more slowly than most GMs and, you know, league personnel would like after the pandemic and everyone, you know, kind of having to pick up some of these teams that were maybe harder hit by it than others. And you've got, obviously, escrow with the players. And, you know, there's all sorts of factors that go into it. But I do think there'll be an increase of some kind because the league wants to sort of back on, not on its feet,

but back on track to where it thought it would be, you know, trending towards at this point a few years ago. So that's going to be a real good thing for teams like Toronto, for teams, you know, that are up against the cap and who normally would, you know, if they did have a little more breathing room, would probably be more interactive with other teams in terms of making deals and, you know,

being a little bit more aggressive on the trade and acquisition front. But the salary cap is king right now. That flat cap really hurt some teams, and there's recovery time from that. And that's, I know, difficult for fans. No one wants to be patient. Everybody wants to win. But the dollar is undefeated when it comes to uh you know and that's even like you look at eric carlson's name being out there right and and everyone's talking about is he gonna go

edmonton is he gonna go here that's a big salary to pick up like that's a lot of money to put on your books and and it's it's just there's exciting options but until that cap goes up and everybody knows until the cap goes up uh some of these better teams where you know a guy like carlson could really not that he's not shining in san jose but where he could shine and really make a difference in the playoffs they just may not be able to afford him without some significant um salary being withheld so that's where you you really if you're the league and if you're the teams you you want that salary cap increase i don't know that it will be as massive as everyone would would hope but i i do suspect that they'll figure out a way to put a little more money in everybody's pocket

for seasons to come kristin it's just not players looking for contract extensions there's executives as well including one here named kyle dubas and we haven't heard much on this. Do you expect going through the holidays into the new year that this talk will pick up, or do you expect it to kind of be quiet until the end of the season? What are your thoughts on Kyle Dubas needing a contract? You know, you can sometimes think of contracts as being a distraction. I think sometimes the discussions can actually be more distracting and that's why there's a lot of players that choose not to have them.

And we hear that publicly, you know, they'll come out and say, you know what? I kind of told my agent, I just want to play and I don't really want to think about the contract until later. And, you know, we haven't heard much on that front with, with Kyle Dubas. And that could be by design. It could just be that mentality of, hey, you know, Bredman Shanahan kind of said, hey, show me, you know, show me what you're going to do and how are we going to get where we want to go.

And even though it seems like things are tracking well and, you know, Matt Murray puts on a performance like last night and, you know, Dubas looks like a genius for bringing him in and for, you know, ignoring the health concerns and whatever else people had said about that decision. And it might just be, for him, a chance to say, hey, you know what, I'm not going to think about it. I'm just going to say, we said we're going to table this until the season's over.

We'll discuss it then. And even if things are going really well now, it could be going even better in April. They could be going even better in May. And what does that do for a new contract? So it's almost like if I'm Kyle Dukas, if I was sitting in his chair, I would bet on myself and say I believe in the team that I put together. I believe that if we play the way that I know Sheldon Keefe can coach this team

to play, that's going to be good for me too because we're going to have success and we're going to obviously, you know, that's going to be good for me too, because we're going to have success and we're going to obviously, you know, he's going to have that opportunity to go, you know, into those conversations at the end of the year and say, Hey, look at what I did. And then what does that do for him in terms of length of extension or in terms of dollars? So I wouldn't think we'd hear a ton about it unless, you know,

something maybe more unexpected than not happens but if i'm if i'm dubious and i'm putting i'm sitting in his chair i'm just thinking i'm going to show you what you know what i put together here and why and if it works out then great for me and if it doesn't at least i know that i i sort of went down with my my ship so to speak like i put this team together i made these decisions didn't work it It doesn't always. And we move on. But right now things are going well. Why put any pressure on anybody? Why make a distraction? Just let things play out and we'll see where we're at.

If you're the front office in, you know, a few months from now, Kristen, they don't put it on the schedule, but I think we're in coach firing season. Are we not? This is usually about the time of year. You look at the NHL standings, you're like, okay, Rangers,

the Capitals, the Canucks, the Blues. There's some teams underachieving here. Have you heard any rumblings? You got any thoughts on some coaches who may be feeling the pressure right now? Yeah.

You hear Gerard Gallant's name being thrown out there a lot of, oh, is he gonna be um you know someone that the rangers decide to move on from just because of the season the rangers have had but i always think you don't want to be too quick to jump to the dump you know you don't want to pull you know pull that lever too soon because it's still as much as it doesn't feel early it's still early and you know, you look at last season at this time where we were just using the Rangers as another example.

Were we talking about the Rangers as a potential Eastern Conference final team? Were we talking even about the Colorado Avalanches, potential Stanley Cup winners? Like, there's still that feeling out process. There's still that, you know, kind of just figuring it out. What works? What doesn't? Guys who maybe started hot and have cooled off, guys who haven't found a rhythm yet.

And I think New York is a great example of a team that, you know, a lot of the players that got them to the point that they were at last spring just haven't had the same starts. That doesn't mean that things can't pick up. It doesn't also mean it's a reflection of the coaching either. So, and it's also that a lot of these teams, I mean, if you're paying a coach, do you want to go out and potentially bring in someone else that you're going to have to pay? And then what does that do? Are they really going to make that big of a difference?

And who's available? I mean, unless, you know, Barry Trotz is, you know, his phone's open for business. I mean, who are some of these top teams that want to contend? Who are you going towards? Are you bringing in, you know, a stopgap? Are you giving someone the interim tag and hoping, you know, that they'll work their way into a full-time position? There's just, it's, I think what's tough at this point in the season,

being that it is only early December, you just don't want to make that decision too soon. And this is a lot, it's an 82 game season. It's, it's, there's a lot of runway left here, you know, and there's still, I think time for some of these underachievers to redeem themselves a little bit. And this is where, you know, we talk about, Oh, the freeze at Christmas. Maybe that's a point in a couple of weeks where they,

that's where some of those conversations start happening, where you say, okay, when the page turns here into 2023, are we confident in our coach? Are we confident that he's still the guy? And think about, I think when I was last on with you guys, we were talking about whether Sheldon Keefe was still going to have a job. You know, we were talking about, you know, things aren't going so well.

Has Keefe lost the room? And what if the Leafs had made that decision and said, oh, well, you know, things aren't going so well. Has Keith lost the room? And what if the Leafs had made that decision and said, oh, well, you know, things aren't going as well as we hoped. We better make a big change. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but you don't want to do it too soon. And I think for some of the names that you hear out there, it's a, you know, you don't even want to say them out loud because it just doesn't sound like anyone's too sure that anything is actually going to happen.

It's more just we're not really happy with where we are as a team. The coach is a part of that, but he's not the only factor. And if you don't believe that a new coach coming in or a new voice is going to make the difference, is going to be the Rick Baunis of the Winnipeg Jets, then you kind of got to stick with what you've got and just put your faith in the players to be ready, you know, to take the coaching that they get and make the most of it. The biggest issue I see in New York is that they've got an owner with a very short fuse in James Dolan.

And his biggest issue, Kristen, is he's looking at that Metro division and he's seeing the Islanders ahead of his Rangers and New Jersey and that's got to piss him right off and I'm just wondering now you know you're with ESPN are the hockey markets south of the border giving

the New Jersey Devils just due here on what they've been able to do 25, 26 games into the season? You know, the Devils have drawn just about every superlative that you can imagine from what I've read and what I've heard and what I see. No one is sleeping on New Jersey.

And my goodness, you look at Jackie's last night and what he's doing. You look at the way that the Devils are winning games. It's just so – it's shocking that they've made, what, one playoff appearance in these last few years because you look at where they're at right now and you just – it's stunning, the turnaround and the ability and when they're healthy and when they get the goal pending.

And, yes, absolutely what New Jersey – I mean, every team in the league has got to be looking at them and just wondering what's the magic formula here? What allowed for them to put this all together from fire Lindy to, you know, no one will – and again, that's another example of don't make the coaching change too quickly. And now you see what the Devils are doing. And it's just – I think when you talk about giving a team their flowers, so to speak,

I think everyone is, you're almost trying not to be too effusive if you're down south about how good they've been because these things, you know, teams get on a hot streak and not that it looks like the Devils are close to finishing this one off, but, you know know teams get hot and they can cool off and there's you know discussion about what happened and why and for now it's just

enjoy it like enjoy this great hockey that they've been able to put on and seeing you know nico he's here becoming the player that you really thought he could be uh and as i mentioned with hughes and and jessra broad and just the whole nucleus of New Jersey is so fun. And it is fun. Even when they're making mistakes, even when it's not perfect, it's really fun to watch. And the league needs that as much as anything. So I would say the U.S. populace, everyone is quite intrigued

by where these Devils are going. And they're a team that you think back to the glory days with Brodeur and how great they were. It's nice to see sort of a renaissance of sorts happening in New Jersey and just bringing back some of those old school vibes. Kristen, we really appreciate your time. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for having me, guys, anytime.

Thank you. Kristen Shilton, ESPN. Knows a lot of stuff. your time thanks for doing this thanks for having me guys anytime thank you shilton espn knows a lot of stuff i i gotta think that uh new jersey for me is the most complete team i've seen so far this season they look really good they're fast all throughout their lineup their d is really interesting because you wouldn't call them bruisers necessarily but like dougie hamilton does his thing and severson moves the puck and that John Marino has been a revelation. Size, depth, mobility.

Yeah, they got, they're a good team. Easiest schedule so far, right? That is an interesting point. According to Power Ranking's guru, strength of schedule, the Devils have had the easiest schedule this season and have the third hardest the rest of the way. By the way, the hardest schedule the rest of the way this season,

New York Rangers. So not going to get easier for a Rangers team that's struggled a little bit. Some interesting ones, by the way, by strength of schedule. The Calgary Flames have had the hardest schedule in the league to date and have the easiest the rest of the way. So the Flames have had a slow start, and part of that could be schedule. hardest schedule in the league to date and have the easiest the rest of the way so the flames have had a slow start and part of that could be scheduled they've really uh i don't know if it's under delivered or what but i think it's it was the hype that they uh the down the up the trades

the signing oh yeah people like myself you know know, like, ah, it's a better team now. They got better. They didn't get better. They didn't get better? No. They lost the best line in hockey, which was Gaudreau, Kachuk, Lindholm last year. That line at even strength was plus 51 last year. This year, their top line's plus one. And it's not

the goalie that you expected to be. Markstrom, right, is struggle fest. But ours has actually been good. Yeah. He's patching the holes there. They're barely above 500, I think. I guess it's easiest schedule the rest of the way.

They're still going to make playoffs. I still like their team, but they're not a better team than last year, I don't think. Who would you take, Calgary or Edmonton in a series? Oh, I love that question. Edmonton. They're within a point of each other. You've got to think about goaltending in D though Like in a playoff series

I gotta go Calgary I think I do too But then you're betting against McDavid and Dreisaitl Who've won Literally last year And they pumped Calgary You just mentioned The goals

The Sorry, Markstrom. Yeah. And this is a good tweet from Kevin Vipetti the other day. Did you see this? No. The highest goalie cap hits in the NHL, that seven of the top ten of them are under 900 save percentage. So Markstrom's included in that.

Yeah. Bobrovsky, obviously. Gibson, Binnington, Markstrom. Quick, Shusterkin. Well, he's not under it. Merzlikens. It's crazy how these big money contracts for these goalies. It's a scary thing.

Yes, it is. It's a huge risk. But it is one of the big myths in the NHL right now that any goalie will do. We can't know who's going to be any good. You just can't give any guy 10 year 10 million dollars over eight years as a goalie those days are over i think you cannot give that to a goalie you just don't know how they're going to hold up you start getting groin injuries and you may not get them again even on your last night you're the worst feeling is being on a bench some a lot of times where you know you're

out playing a team and you just cannot beat that goalie and they come down once or twice in your end and you're down one nothing or two nothing you're like this is hopeless this is futile you know just banging that's what last night you had that feeling i'm sure dallas had that feeling at some point where, hey, we could be in a World Cup right now with those soccer nets, and we still ain't scoring. Yeah, nice to see the Leafs on that side of it. We've been waiting for it in a playoff series one time, one time.

By the way, oh, sorry. No, I was going to, you want to go to break? We're going to go to break. We got Stauffer coming up, host of Oilers Now. We're going to ask him the same question. Who would he take, Calgary or Edmonton in a best of series right now? I wonder what he'll say. I wonder what he'll say.

Let's find out after the break. You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. I'm taking it out west. Let's welcome in Bob Stauffer. Yes. Voice of Oilers now and does a terrific job on our regional broadcasts for Sportsnet. Stauff, how are you?

Some people might debate that, but thank you for having me on. I'm talking to your friends and family right now. They're my harshest critics. Who saw Seattle throwing a wrench

into a comfortable playoff spot for the likes of the Oilers and Calgary? Not me. I'll tell you that. Didn't Steve Breer go from Toronto to Seattle as goalie coach? Anyhow, no, I think, you know, Seattle added some depth. The Bjorkstrand trade, they were in on Pauly Arby as well at one point. You know, they're deeper up front.

I'd say it's still early. I mean, Edmonton's issues, Edmonton's just got to look internally. And all they need to do in terms of they've got some injuries. Everybody has injuries. They just need to look at the Maple Leafs. I mean, Toronto's now three of their top, I think, three of their top four defensemen. And what are they, 11-0-3 or something like that over their last 14 games? And I realize everybody in Toronto's, hey, it's about the playoffs this year

and the Maple Leafs are going to get there. We all know that. But the Oilers' challenges are internal and they need to rectify on at least three separate fronts to gain some traction. But they haven't come close nick and justin to playing on the level that they did last year and jay blackcroft for the final 38 games it's crazy too because there's so much good there on that roster looking at it right now and you know excuse me for oversimplifying but watching it just feels like they miss evander

kane a whole lot am i oversimplifying that point? No, you're 100% on. I mean, let's not forget, he basically came in, you know, three weeks before Jay Woodcroft came up from Bakersfield, and he gave Edmonton something they desperately needed, and I am old school in this regard. I still think there's a degree of physicality. I might have been the guy in 2010 amongst the broadcasters in a league that would be most

open to analytics but you still need a degree of I mean the Oilers have no bite whatsoever right now and the fact is Kane brought it and he brought it in their top six and scored 35 goals in 58 games last year if you include the playoffs

he led playoff goal scorers he had 13 games last year, if you include the playoffs. I mean, he led playoff goal scorers. He had 13 goals last year in the playoffs. So he's a massive loss. But again, good organizations overcome it. And Toronto, I look no further than the Maple Leafs, and I know there are a lot of questions about Toronto at the start of the season, but I give them full marks. I mean, they don't have Morgan Riley.

They don't have Muzzin. Brody's still out, right? I mean, they're sitting there playing with Connor Tibbins, who was minus 10 in the minors, playing in Tucson. So they are finding a way, and that is a credit to that organization. And the Oilers, to be frank with you,

they haven't gotten close to, they haven't played worth, you know what, all season long. They've had a decent five-game stretch, maybe a couple times, but they've been consistently inconsistent. It's three-fold. Starts and goal, you guys know Jack Campbell. He's at 872. Do the numbers.

End of discussion. He hasn't gotten close to the level that the Oilers stepped up and paid him to be at. Now, fortunately for Edmonton, Stuart Skinner has played pretty well. On defense, Duncan Keith's been a significant absence. Maybe one that,

you know, again, in Edmonton, the analytics people hated the trade. The old school hockey guys loved the trade. And then they've got no offensive juice out of Paul Yerby, Yamamoto, and Dylan Holloway, who was very impressive in preseason. Those guys have combined to score two goals all season. So they haven't had great secondary scoring,

which has been further exasperated by the injury to Evander Kane. We're talking to Bob Soffer as he cruises down the highway on his Harley. Where are you? Yes. I just got off the air. I'm 10 blocks away from Roger's place. And I'm in my F-150 brought to you by our sponsor, Brentridge Ford. There you go.

Can they get us an F-150 up here? Can you get one with a muffler? Why? Does it sound like there's... Are you driving a vehicle with a muffler? Why? Does it sound like there's, are you driving a vehicle without a muffler? That's sort of modus operandi out in Alberta, isn't it? Exactly. Okay.

Listen, we got to backpedal a little bit because we, you know, our neck of the woods, not many oiler fans, but Jack Campbell fans. What is going on? He's not that bad. Yeah. And you know what? He's not not and the Oilers need to rally around them it's that simple they made the investment five times five uh Jack's way too hard on himself I don't know if it's a defense mechanism with the media um but he's you know it's funny because Brent Myers is a guy I know well, and Brent's had some tough miles, as you know,

and worked with the L.A. Kings, and Jack didn't really realize his potential through Dallas and L.A., and then the Leafs unlocked it, and the Oilers have got to unlock it. And it's on the entire organization to do so. So Dustin Schwartz is a goalie coach. He's been here since 2014 he's worked with lots of different goalies jack's a unique guy uh he's supposed to be part of the solution here and the owners have no choice but to dig in support them and get through it and that's as

simple as that so when you look at this oilers team how do you feel about their chances about you know being better than last year? I thought I picked the Oilers this season as the best Canadian team. Hasn't played out so far this year. But do you see a path forward here? I know you mentioned that there's a number of shortcomings or disappointing spots so far. Are they fixable?

Is this a team that can make a single season turnaround? Well, they can because, and this is if you look at schedule metrics, they've played the harder part of their schedule out of the gate. I mean, there were seven teams in the league. The others have only played three times. So, you know, they're going to get, I think, 17 of their final 56 games against the bottom seven teams in the league. And a couple of those teams are in their division, San Jose and Anaheim,

and they haven't played them yet. And they've got eight games left against them. So do I expect Edmonton to get better as the season goes on? Yes. Do I expect Canahoula to get active? Yes. The Oilers have to upgrade their bottom six. I mentioned they've got no balls.

Like, their team is – I'm old school. You need a little – I mean, Nick, you willed your way to the NHL. Kudos to you. You were 60 goals scored in the OHL. You need a little. I mean, Nick, you willed your way to the NHL. Kudos to you. You were a 60-goal scorer in the OHL. You paid the price. You need some of that. You know, it's ironic that the Oilers kept Yessa Pogliarvi. I can't believe how significant he's getting.

He's got no confidence. Kassian's in town tonight. Lots of the fans, you know, had enough of Zach. They could use somebody, especially with Kane out in their bottom six. So I expect them to add at least two bottom six forwards. They're going to live with Broberg in the short term in their third pairing. That's kind of a guy that's replaced

Keith, but as a result, they've had to play Kulak higher up the lineup. He hasn't been quite as effective as he was last year. I do think they can get out of this. Eventually, they'll get some of the support scoring, some of their forwards back.

They missed McLeod. Ryan McLeod was a decent third-line center playing 15 minutes a game for them. They just got Yamamoto back, and they'll get Fogle back, who hasn't been great, but has been a double-digit goal scorer, which isn't easy to do when you're not getting power play time. And I do think they'll make the playoffs. I still think they'll win 47 of 50 games, guys.

I think they'll play in an easier conference, and I think they'll play in an easier division. And they'll start to play some of those teams, but they've got to play better than they're playing right now. We talk a lot about the workload of Mitch Marner and his ability to kill penalties. It's starting a little bit with Connor McDavid out there. What are the thoughts of squeezing more out of a demand already that's intense on 97?

Yeah, fair question. I'm all for having McDavid out because I think it changes the complexion of what the opposition does sometimes. Who better to understand what an opposition's power play is going to do than a guy that thinks... I mean, Connor McDavid, I'll say this. I mean, look, I work for the Oilers Entertainment Group. He is the most advanced player that's ever

played the game. There's never been anybody that fast that good. It's that simple. I know Matthews won the MVP last year. He had an awesome year. 60 goals. Marner and Matthews won the MVP last year. He had an awesome year, 60 goals. Marner and Matthews have 33 points each in 39 career playoff games. Connor had 33 in 16 playoff games last year. Leon had 32 in 16 and had a brutal high ankle sprain

that would have kept him out of regular season games. By the way, he's still not at 100%. And that's part of the reason why, as the season's gone on, McDavid's moved into more of a penalty killing role, and they've decreased the minutes for Leon because he is not all the way back. Nick, you can speak to this. Maybe Justin, from your minor pro career,

high ankle sprains are tricky. Sometimes, I mean, Rob Brown told me he had one for two and a half years he couldn't get over. It affected me. It didn't feel right. Leon Drysaddle does not have near the same explosiveness that he had at this time last year. And the Oilers' penalty killing was so bad. I mean, it's at 70% right now.

They had to get some new guys to step in and do it. And I think they could use a guy like Sam Lafferty out of Chicago. But you've got to accept your role. And they have some forwards that they see a team with McDavid and Dreisaitl and Nugent Hopkins and Hyman and Kane. They're like, I've got to play that way too. And they just need guys to accept roles further down the lineup. And if they can't get guys to come around that regard,

they're going to have to go acquire them. And I think it's inevitable that that's coming for Edmonton. It's interesting to say that. Like, David Kampf has been a revelation here in that he fully knows what he is, and he plays that role. He kills penalties, he takes face-offs, he gets the hell off the ice. It's lovely to watch when you can find those guys. In the division is the Calgary Flames and the Providence as well,

12-10 this season. Another team that some people thought were better going into this season, not everyone, but depending where you stand on that that what do you see out of the flames this year what are your thoughts for their uh potential their perspectives well i definitely thought they won the trade uh just because of the depth of what they got back right i mean mckenzie weger until the back half of last year i kept hearing how he was one of you know an underrated top two nhl defenseman. And then they get Hubert.

I mean, how do they not win? They even got a first-round pick. So I thought Calgary was better. And I still think Calgary is going to be better come playoff time. Like, Nazem Kadri is going to show up. And I know that's, you know, I'm the guy in Edmonton that picked the Leafs to beat Boston. I just didn't expect Kadri to get kicked out of two series. Because he is the type of player that plays, you know,

you need him to come playoff time because he's got bite. He doesn't take any crap on the ice. And he fights for his space out there. I think the Flames, I think Edmonton and the Flames are going to be fine. But neither team's clearly had the start. And I think that Seattle will get caught in the end i'll give kelly mccrimmon and vegas credit they're in on everything uh and tom mcclellan's found a way to maybe accelerate uh la a little bit further along than people thought right now la is a team i'm nervous

about la um you know they're in on every player too right right? Leafs got a guy that's easy, you know, and, you know, hopefully for Toronto fans, Matthews extends. There's a lot of good things going on in Toronto. The Oilers have Drysaddle. You know, they have McDavid. Both those organizations got to get some playoff traction. Edmonton got a little last year, obviously, beat the Kings. They didn't have Dowdy.

You know, it looks like Vegas is a for sure. At the end of the day, I still expect Edmonton and Calgary in the playoffs, Justin. I was on with Tim and friends yesterday. We talked about Brock Besser and there seems to be some interest out of Calgary. There's

the money aspect. If you can work around the money, do you see a fit in Calgary for Brock Besser or would Edmonton again be in a position to massage some money would they be interested in brock besser i think uh nick uh calgary it totally makes sense they need to add a scoring winger uh i think edmonton jonathan tase would make more sense for edmonton just in terms i think the others lost a little with mike smith not being here

and Duncan Keith. They did it differently. You know, Smith was more vocal. Keith was sort of understated at times, sneaky, dirty, veteran, poised type guy and had gamesmanship, and I like that about him. And I think that Tays, you know, as you guys know, he's only $3 million in real dollars the rest of the year. Clearly, I just said Bill Armstrong on my show today.

He says he's totally open to being a partner they can retain on two more players. I think Taze, a player of Taze, Ilk, and then a Lafferty further down the lineup would be a better fit for Edmonton than Brock Besser. And last one for me before I let you go. He can't possibly have someone on from Edmonton without checking in on our boy Zach Hyman. I see he's got like seven points in the last four games. Has he been, everything is advertised?

More. Yeah. Good, isn't he? What a player. And he writes books, children's books. You guys know, you'll never meet a better guy. Like he was on a lineup against Washington. The Oilers had no juice.

Now, Edmonton's tired. We went to New York and then came back for a game and then off to Chicago and Minnesota. Minnesota's got a big, heavy, tough team. They knock the crap out of the Oilers every time they play them. But Hyman is relentless. You know that drive is going to be there on a nightly basis. And his absence was combined with Kane's.

I mean, that was quite – and that's the difference between where Edmonton's at. You know, when they lost to Winnipeg, they didn't have Hyman and Kane, and now they have Hyman and Kane. Like, when they have those guys, they're okay. They just need to keep developing some of their younger, you know, players like a McLeod, like a Holloway in the future, to support, you know, underneath're okay. They just need to keep developing some of their younger players like a McLeod, like a Holloway in the future to support underneath those guys. Then there just hasn't been enough traction

with the likes of Pooley, Arby, Yamamoto and Holloway. But Hyman's been a wonderful addition. Terrific guy. Money well spent. And you'll never meet a better person. Hey, Stoff, always a pleasure, man. Thanks for doing this for us. Hey, you bet. Take care, guys. Thanks, Stoff, always a pleasure, man. Thanks for doing this for us. Hey, you bet. Take care, guys. Thanks, Stoff.

Get a new truck. Bob Stoffer. Yeah, buddy. In his F-150, is that what it was? Yeah, I got to tell you, he got an F-150 there. I remember talking to people working in Vancouver. It's like, yeah, Dilawri family of Acura dealer. They're driving Acuras into work.

Listen. I'm driving my own iJet. We're in Toronto. We got, well, that's not true. I got a car, too. Yeah, but you're Nick Kiprios in Toronto. But you out west. I know.

You'd have free housing. You'd have a free car. You'd be the king out west. Here you're a little buried under a few of us. Maybe I can do a Kelowna Rockets show. Sammy, what can we get you? You've got two shows now. Who can say they've got two shows?

I have a great, very... Three shows. You have golf guys, too. Very dependable. Oh, my God. They're just squeezing you. Toyota Corolla. Very dependable.

Great car. If they want to sponsor me, very happy to... You know, I believe Hyundai was added as a sponsor for NHL at Sportsnet this year. Okay. Well, not our show, so... Talk with Dave Hyundai and see if we can get a connection. I have an Elantra. Great car.

Oh, yeah. Call me. Elantra. I'll talk to Timmy Toyota and see if he can help me out. Okay. So more surprised at Calgary struggles or Edmonton's? Edmonton. I don't know.

You go get one of the highest scoring wingers and then Kadri. Don't know what that Uber though. Everybody had Calgary. Yeah. Hazzled in for, you know, Kadri replaced the Kachuk grit and he had 86 points last year. You can get the,

you know, and then Huber does 115 points us here. If he even gets 105, you like it. I would say I'm more surprised by Calgary sucking than Edmonton being. No, they're not. Neither of them suck. But they're average.

In talking to Stoff, I'm reminded how much they need Hyman and Kane in Edmonton. Like, they need that grit. They need those guys that they. They're just hard to play against. That's the best way I can describe them. They're just. And you know what? I've been up against guys like Billy Guerin.

You're just like, oh, it's going to be a long night angry bill yeah it's gonna be just it's gonna be one of those nice can i just get through it and not look bad one thing i've said over and over that i think is a fatal flaw of the toronto maple leafs is that and you know i've talked about this that the the core itself is not like a gritty, hard-nosed group. And so when people are like, bring in grit, you know, okay, to put them on your fourth line or your third pair, you cannot surround grit to the core. Those are the guys who play all your minutes. That's why Jonathan Taves is so successful and Marchand and Bergeron and, you know, Kucherov and those guys. They have this edge.

The guys who play the most have that bit of grit. In Edmonton last year, they have playoff success because Kane is so good, Hyman is so good. Can the Leafs guys be that? I'm just, I found it so telling the other night with the Trouba hit on AA, nothing to see you. And Taves jumps in. Right?

Taves will do it. What are your thoughts there? Let's be honest. That's the last guy out of whoever's on the ice I would think would need to do that or show that. Yet, he did. Why?

He's the captain. Yeah, he's the guy yeah no what is it then number one i think it's to maybe even send a message to the chicago blackhawks that this is what you've put me to that i have to go and do this yeah number one yeah and number two he's telling also the hockey world i got plenty of juice left so that's why i've edmonton colorado all these teams that are looking i'm not done yet two reasons to jump in in there you're advertising yourself yeah you're not and you're also sticking it to chicago a little bit it's kind of a no-brainer to go in there and yeah you're not and you're also sticking it to chicago a little bit it's kind of a no-brainer to go in there and yeah you're right i good points by you i think there's some advertising yourself

is available and all that that makes a lot of sense but at the same time he's done not that maybe directly but he's always been that guy that's been willing yeah and then your team has to follow you right it's like you don't get to be the guy who shies away if the captain who scores does it. To your earlier point, that's not necessarily Tavares, Nylander, Marner, or Matthews. It hasn't been, for sure. And it won't be. I, you know, I'm...

Are you waiting for a moment? I am waiting for a moment. I'm waiting for Matthews. That one of them pulls a Jonathan Taves moment? Yes, I am. I don't think he's going to go through... He's 25? I don't think he's going to through he's 25 i don't think he's gonna be 35 and never have fought in the nhl sam is that moment coming his is it just a maturity thing or

a shorter fuse uh it's it's a game it's a game against the sabers his first career fight will be against rasmus dalyan is matthew got it in him? Yes, because he'll get a taste for blood once he beats the wheels off Rasmus Sandin. That'd be a weird one. Rasmus Dallin, because the only man he truly hates in the NHL is him. He will fight him, and he will enjoy it,

and then he'll become one of the toughest guys. That's my prediction. He's either going to beat the hell out of someone or get the hell beat out of him. I would love to see it. Of course, we all would. Who wouldn't didn't see another guy that you see shirtless in their celebration effects near like what if we didn't see it earlier this season against philadelphia what makes you think it's coming the pressure that came from not doing it the the outside pressure of being like why aren't you doing it i think you become hyper aware that the next time that happens you better do it yeah i don't get that sense so you guys are very prone to believe the most recent thing that

happened is always going to happen remember yesterday i said that austin matthews has scored and i got the oh he hasn't yet oh well here's the thing though it was another opportunity last night where um you know he gets bodied by a big man, pushed right onto his goalie, and he just is like looking at it, he's like, doesn't even react, right? Yeah. A lot of guys in the NHL get up. Yeah, I would have hated that shove.

For sure. Immediately get up and just, like I know it's Marchman, like listen, I don't want him to go with Marchman. That's a different kettle of fish. You don't want to do that. But there's some guys that would at least skate over to him and maybe just like give a little check you know as players we've i've always been in a scenario

with anybody i've played with and it didn't matter if they were stars or fourth liners the whole idea is not to give an inch and if a guy doesn't want to get involved or just do enough that attracts us all in, and then when we're all in there together, then you can step aside. Then, you know, I can come in there and get in an FU contest with a guy or poke him or rub my glove in his face. I can attract the attention off of you, but I'll be there for you, and four of us will be there for you.

Just start it, and we'll clean it up. Yep. But to Sam's point, that Matthews doesn't even want to start. And there was another, I forget who it was, that was digging at him at Murray, and he just kind of just escaped by him it's not in his it's not in his dna his dna but that doesn't mean he's never gonna do it it's not

my dna but i did it you know like i think he will fight like i've said a million times and the only person who will fight well you gotta you gotta sometimes uh you know god i paint a guy into a corner right yeah yeah oh yeah once the walls start closing in and there's no other options. It's amazing that more people haven't been like gloves off in his face just seeing how far they can push him. Boys, I want to do the show the next day. Like, I pray to God it happens soon so we can come in and talk about the fight. Yeah, we don't need a Friday night game.

No. There's another game. No, you guys are Neanderthal. Oh, I don't want to sound like a Neanderthal. Once again, I did not start off this conversation about how Matthews needs to get up and slug somebody. Yeah, well, I'm waiting for it. It belongs to Justin Bourne and Sammy McKee. Listen, I've just accepted the fact I have really come to grips with what the Leafs are.

And I miss fights and i miss hits and i miss like i miss that's a tick up you know i know but i miss i really like how much of a tick up like a little bit the last two seasons it's up from like 18 19 it was steadily down the last couple years a little bit of a upward i love it i love that part of the game it's it's it's in me i am who i am i love the fights i love hitting i don the game. It's in me. I am who I am. I love the fights. I love hitting. I don't have to apologize for that.

No, I know. But I'm just saying that the Leafs don't do it really ever, and it's something that I've really had to come to grips with over this era. And it's a tough one. Because they used to do it all the time. Well, but here's the thing. You came off an era where the team stunk and fought everyone. Like, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Listen, I don't want to admit how much one of my favorite games of all time was uh colton or and frazier mclaren beating the crap of the habs and they beat him five nothing on a saturday night and they were fighting everybody and josh georges was crying and that was like a random game and there was a lot of fights and i remember that well and a lot of leaf fans do like it's sad that I love it that much you know I know it's sad but I like it can we change the subject it's really I don't like all this talk about violence

I wanted to pick up a little bit on the conversation we had with Kristen it was great on the extension of Dubas because we've talked about it a little bit in the past. And it will come up at some point. And you almost believe that if the Leafs continue to have success

and end up being where we talked about all along before the season started, a team that would be in the hunt for the President's Trophy or even could win it. Not sure where Boston and New Jersey are going to be in a month from now. Yeah. But they're in the hunt here. But if they end up having a strong regular season yet again do you see a situation where the talk becomes i don't want to say a distraction that's what kristin talked about but do you see it

being played out a lot more than just everybody being quiet till it playoffs or the regular season or the, or the season's over. No, I, you know, I, this team has been good in the regular season. Then they lost in the playoffs and the team has decided that that was not good enough to earn a long-term extension.

They needed to see success in the playoffs. That said, I still think that it's typical in the nhl for people to have a parachute year on their contract of some variety is there not where a guy said they say all right he's got one more year but if we don't want him we can fight you know for me that's dubious now it's like he he's been good enough and this team is good enough that you he should have the confidence that he can build at least a very good competitive team it is surprising to me that he doesn't have another year on his deal but does he even sign

a one-year deal i don't know maybe they've offered him one-year deals and he says yeah i i think i think if they would offer them a one-year extension at a at a good number i i don't i don't know whether he would take it or not or is the the type of guy you probably know better than most. Very competitive. So did he say, no, I'm all in on a major extension or I'm out of here? Yeah, that would be different because talking to Kristen and she was saying like, you know, the whole bet on yourself thing.

First off, love Kristen, don't like the saying. I'm very tired of bet on yourself. Like it's not the best idea for everyone to bet on yourself thing first off love kristin don't like the saying i'm very tired of bet on yourself like it's not the best idea for everyone to bet on themselves and sometimes taking another multi-million dollar aaron judge oh yeah aaron judge is not everyone he made 160 million dollars betting on himself so that was a good bet so if you're aaron judge bet on yourself if you're less than the best home run hitter in the history of the sport maybe taper expectations yeah you're right all i know one thing for sure in this include is includes uh arson judge did you see that i did arson judge yeah it's a tough one to be wrong on i know holy

hell i know felt for the man well you're in the you used to be in the oh yeah breaking business you know so there are no right or wrong answers there's just leverage yeah and it really comes down to always in any situation who has it aaron judge clearly had it yeah and going into the season kyle didn't have it the question is at some point between now and the end of the season does he get it back does he get it back does he have it yet and fourth in the nhl on points for this double edge sword that as much as you feel like at the beginning of the season that it's it's all on Kyle, the pendulum can swing. And now you're in a position, if you're MLSC, that do we want to go the distance here

and actually be in a position to lose him if we want him? Or do we take care of this thing now sooner than later? And like I said, it's a double-edged sword that's a decision that they have to make as well are they willing to go to the distance and do they know kyle well enough where he can turn around and go you know what screw you you didn't believe in me you hung me out to dry i'm going to test the market i'm going to go find my money somewhere else yeah i i kind of think he's done that here i don't know i have to have no insight on that i have to admit that life without dubious to me is a scary one because listen

everyone wanted him fired for two straight playoff rounds myself included in some of those times and you're more heated after those and you're like you're pissed off they've lost another series and but like i what's the successor what's the plan like he's i guess maybe you could argue a little stockholm syndrome here too but at the same time like i'm afraid of the beyond without him right like they're been an excellent you do have this feeling that maybe he knows stuff we don't they're an excellent team with him they just haven't had the playoff but the beyond is that the new guys are going to come in and and somewhat blow up the shanta plan for sure the new person's coming on it's a full new fresh set of eyes that's going to look at this completely differently with

a completely different plan like that thought to me is somewhat scary that like you've gotten used to this level of excellence in the regular season i know kipper before you say no no i agree it's sellable it's it's it's interesting it is it's holding an audience well they win all the time they win you know until a lot of games a lot and then they can't get past the first round because of a five on three in this third period of a game with two bogus calls and anyways not what I think about it that much. No, no, no, no. It's interesting. Or a pick play on Justin Hall.

And then they didn't call a penalty for the rest of the playoffs in game seven. That was a legit. Oh, yeah, for sure. Hall's a step away from selling that better. That happens. You know, if Hall just gets turned around. A hundred times a game for the rest of the playoffs, they never call it. Like, take a snap and throw it 60 yards down the field like he did last night.

Yeah. Maybe he does have his moments. Maybe I had that wrong. Okay. What else? Handshake line respect, which is a great name on YouTube, said, Sam McKee, everything is just scary for you. You are very right about that.

He is an eggshell type of guy uh shane wright shane wright scored his first nhl goal against montreal does he look like a new man yeah is this uh four goals on his uh american hockey league uh stint yeah comes back scores his first nhl goal is this enough to keep him the rest of the year you know i did a panel last night with bucala and fuda and they were both saying you know when he goes back they'll trade his rights to this team and the ohl and he'll do this and whatever i don't know like if if he looks really good he looked really good last night and then if he goes the world juniors and he sets people on fire and then seattle has an injury or something like are we sure this guy's going back to junior i don't know i genuinely ask because i don't know these type of things this is not my strong suit as an

analyst like he seems like a guy who could sort it out and play in the league if he's gonna get 10 if you're in the ballpark at 10 minutes when he does play it's fine and it's not six yeah i think he can stay yeah so you played online with uh yanny gourd i forget who the other guy is but like it's a good line they you know they create they for his final numbers were 11 11 and a half 12 yeah he was over 12 minutes last night you know part of that is you know they're chasing the game and they had them out there for offense i think but he had three legit scoring chances scores a goal set up gourd for a breakaway was really really good so something to keep an eye on for sure against the cabs too eh gotta love that listen that has to

play a factor in this that like he's playing six minutes a night he's barely noticeable and then he goes against a team that's scoring him and he's dominating didn't he have like four or five clear chances during that game yeah like it wasn't just the one he scored he had a bunch of chances like yeah he probably pissed off probably have a little b-unders bonnet send him to the juniors the one thing i'll say he still hit the ice six times you know like it's not not the strongest on his edges yet as far as injuries are concerned the leafs seem to be okay with them uh colorado now gonna lose mckinnon for for four weeks so colorado's lost everyone the list is crazy mckinnon landis

like a dozen guys leckanen their call-ups are getting hurt yeah oh they're a disarray but they do have a little bit of a softer schedule ahead we know they're a good team but yeah you get to the point where you just can't fall too far behind and they are in that wild card spot right now in the western conference with calgary on their heels, Nashville right there. The Canucks exist still. So I saw their depth chart tweeted out today. The Avs? Yeah, their Avs. So their top line is Alex Newhook, Mikko Rantanen, and Charles Houdon.

Oh. Second line. He's an American leader. Second line is Cogliano, Jt comp for logan o'connor and then dryden hunt john luke foodie or foady martin kaut third fourth line sempo renta ben myers cal burke are people it looks like they're random name generator like that's is going to be a tough stretch for them to stay relevant. Right? That's not a good team.

No. No, it's tough, man. Gerard McCarr, Taves Johnson, McDonald England. They are the Tampa Bay Lightning. Just make the playoffs. Just get in. Just get in. We got a chance.

We'll get healthy and we'll be an eight seed. And, you know whoever vegas will once again have their hearts ripped out vegas are kind of putting together a sad story of good hockey and getting hurt how relatable panthers lose to paul maurice his paul maurice's panthers lose to winnipeg as uh he returns uh that was nice reception uh I was surprised by how positive the reception was. I was under the impression that he would have felt like he abandoned. No, no, no. There's a lot of, Paul's a good man.

He is. I'm a big fan. And it's a small community. But that's why wouldn't they feel like they left? He left them. Listen, if Winnipeg's sitting in the bottom of the division right now, maybe there's booze, but they're happy. They're happy right now.

They're squeezing way more out of them than I think people expected, and that's all that matters to them. Yeah. He said before the game that he regrets not leaving the team prior to the season, and they asked him why as a follow-up, and he said, He said before the game that he regrets not leaving the team prior to the season. And they said, they asked him why as a follow-up. And he said, well, not why, but, you know, what kind of what was it about the whole thing.

And he was talking about their arc. He's like, you know, I came here. They hadn't won a playoff game. You know, we got 114 points. And then he's kind of going like and talking about them cresting and going the other direction. I don't think he anticipated that the Jets would be doing this good. Part of that is Hellebuck, I think, playing really well. Yeah, he's a really good goalie.

Yeah, he stops it a lot. He's kind of good. Yeah, but I think part of it is just surprise on his part. Apologies? To the Jets, no. I still don't think they're... Okay. Yeah, I'm not there yet.

Debra? Because I'm saying sorry. Yeah, I'm going to say. Because I'm saying sorry. Yeah, I'm going to say sorry too. Not me digging in, boys. Yeah, I am. Is it too late now to say sorry? It's still, there's still some hard decisions to be made. Don't get me wrong.

They're like, I'm not sure what this team again is going to look like in 18 months. Yeah. And, you know, that whole Blake Wheeler thing was just really goofy for me. And Paul Maurice loved him and they certainly couldn't strip him down. I mean, are you looking to get into a pissing match? Me,

you and I, where's that from? Oh, that's Blake. We are like, there's no way they could have done what they've done to Blake Wheeler this year and dress him down. If Paul Maurice wasice was still there yeah because i don't know i just look through this lineup and i send you guys their bottom you know nine or whatever it's michael

isamont and morgan baron and sacco menalainen and axel johnson fialabi and david gustafson like sorry those names sound better than the colorado sold. Just not sold that this is a... Okay. Yeah, I think they're... Second best team in Canada right now. Fringe playoff team. I'm going to get hate for that, but whatever. Spencer Knight.

Not fringe. Outright bad. They shot the hockey puck. Did you know him? Panthers missed the playoffs? Yes. I think so. Oh, yeah.

I think so. And that yeah. I think so. And that's, it was questionable in terms of how close they could come to last year. Everybody thought this is a worse team than the one that they had last year. Consensus, for sure. And the cap is killing them. Absolutely butchering that roster, but not to the point where we thought they'd miss the playoffs. Yeah, no, it's a significant drop here, and I hate to say it,

but kind of good news for the old Maplers here in the division. Hey, who the Leafs playing in the playoffs in the first round? Right now? As of today? As of today, it is the Detroit Rattlers. Yeah! Oh, my God, please. There's the bounce you need.

There you go. Anyone except the bruins wow god or the table bay lightning can we just end the season right now for sammy please least red wings best of seven yes dylan larkin scores 48 goals in seven games game seven in overtime yeah no no no, no. That's a sweep. There you go. Okay. Our thanks to Kristen Shilton from ESPN. Bob Stopper as well stopped by talking Oilers. We're back tomorrow.

Stay safe, everybody. We'll be right back.