Real Kyper & Bourne - Streaking Past the Break with Claude Julien

Episode Date: February 5, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start the second hour with more takeaways from All-Star weekend. They are joined by former NHL head coach Claude Julien (6:01), who shares his thoughts on the Oilers' win streak, coaching win streaks and getting players back into the grind of the regular season after the All-Star break. Then, he shares his thoughts on the Kings' dismissal of Todd McLellan and Patrick Roy's return to the NHL.  Later, The Athletic's Ian Mendes (27:19) joins the show to break down what we learned from the London Police Department's press conference on the investigation into the 2018 Canadian Junior team today.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome into real kipper and born this is the national edition of our show we are live on sportsnet sportsnet 650 in vancouver and sportsnet 960 in calgary. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee along for the next hour. In a few minutes, we'll be joined by the 15th winningest coach in NHL history, Claude Julien. Talk about Todd McClellan getting let go and what the

challenges there are for Jim Hiller, who will take over. And word is our Elliot Friedman just reporting that DJ Smith sounds like he'll be going in there and helping out the LA Kings. So we await Claude Julian. Also later in the show, Ian Mendez has agreed to join us. We weren't sure if he was going to make it or not,

but it sounds like he'll join us. And he may have taken in the proceedings in london ontario he did where there was an update thank you for clarifying that sammy uh on a 2018 world junior case where we heard from the london police service announcing the charges against members of the Canada's 2018 team. Dylan Dubé, one count of sexual assault. Cal Foote, one count of sexual assault. Alex Formington, one count of sexual assault. Carter Hart, one count of sexual assault. And Michael McLeod, two counts of sexual assault.

London Police also apologized for their delay in the sexual assault assault charges against former world junior players as well so we'll get an update from ian mendez later on in the show uh in the meantime guys uh very successful world juniors uh of course let me just get this in this hour of real kipper and born brought to you you by, as always, Bet365. So give us your overall thoughts, JB, on what the city of Toronto was able to pull off this weekend. One more thing that I wanted to add about that story is that Hockey Canada put out a statement earlier this hour

saying that all the players on that team remain suspended from international competitions under its umbrella. Next year's Four Nation Face-Off is not part of this as it's an NHL-NHL-PA event. So there's more there with that. So we can get to that with Ian as well at the bottom of the hour. Sounds good. Yeah. So we'll get more into that. The All-Star Weekend.

You know, a tremendous success, Kip. Really felt like we got to see the best of the players. We got genuine effort. All it took was a million-dollar bribe. But, you know, you really got the best out of the guys. And that's what we were here to see, sort of a return to hockey,

a return to what makes this game great. You know, I took my 7-year-old son to the skills contest on the Friday night, stuffed him full of cotton candy and popcorn and all that sort of stuff and we just had a great time it was nice to feel good about hockey for the weekend wasn't it like a we haven't had like a real celebration of the game like this weekend felt like and everything went went as smooth as it could have been so big win for the city of toronto and the nhl free plug here but shout out Scotiabank Arena Popcorn. Yeah, real good. Oh, buddy. I had mucked two bags of that in the press box when I was watching.

Better than normal? Locale. It's just something about it. I don't know. It's Arena Popcorn. It's just really good. I love popcorn. And shout out to the people who clean the seats because I can tell you all the kids around me.

Oh, boy. Oh, you don't charge. Oh, sorry. I covered. The big difference, of course, for me, was the effort that the players put in to this, and it started with the skills competition. Let's face it.

They were smart this time. They actually went to the guys that do it, and it was led by Connor McDavid in revamping the skills competition. You know, every once in a while, we're here at Sportsnet over my years, and I've probably been a part of like three or four desks that they've built for us. And it's like every time they do it, I come on it, and I'm like, this doesn't work, and this is no good here.

And it's like you guys built a desk and you never once went to the people that actually have to use it. What do you think of this desk? It's fine. There'll be a ton I'd like to fix on it. Trust me. I love it. Great desk. Great desk.

Same thing with the NHL. Like, get rid of the people in your office who thought that they could figure it out when you never played, you never did a thing within the game. Get rid of those people and go to the chefs in the kitchen. I was most cynical of their

ability to put together an obstacle course that would be interesting, entertaining, fair, hockey and they nailed it i thought it was a 45 second shift if you did it perfectly like a really good thing and it's hard it's a real challenge that separated nhl all-stars from sammy no offense but like your crew if you went out and tried to execute that with any sort of efficiency i Do you think I would take offense to that? I don't know. It's like, it looks manageable, right? But like, the way they put it through the lid up,

be Kucherov, just dragging your tongue by the end of it. The booze would have been coming out for me, bud. Here's my other takeaway from this weekend. It took you maybe, I don't know, eight, ten years to finally get this all-star thing somewhat right. And now next year you don't go to it. Yeah, we're not going to have it. Four nations face off instead.

I just can't believe it took so long for that shootout to come into play because that was awesome. That was so fun to watch. Yep, love it. All right, let's welcome in Claude Julian, 15th winningest coach in NHL history. Claude, thanks for joining us, pal. And how was your NHL all-star weekend? love it all right let's welcome in claude julian 15th when he is coaching nhl history claude thanks for joining us pal and uh how was your nhl all-star weekend uh did you did you take some of it in or

did you give yourself a break you've been a part of a few in the past what were your thoughts well i have to be honest here i saw part of it i didn't watch all of it obviously had some things going on this past weekend but uh watched the final game of the three on three watched a little bit of the uh uh skill competition but uh can't say uh i was glued to the tv you know it's for my seven-year-old son it's not for actual nhl all-star coaches so you're fine we'll give you a pass on that quote all right appreciate it Justin so there's lots going on in the actual NHL uh over the break um and before that too that we can get to with you and one of the things I wanted to ask you about is this Oilers winning streak

that's going on you yourself have coached I believe a 12 game winning streak just tell us about how you try to keep that sort of thing moving along when everything is going right for a team well it's amazing when those kind of things happen first of all you can feel the confidence in your group and you're going into every game and you know you got that confidence that you're going to win that game as a coach you try and keep the guys i guess grounded and make them understand that, you know, it's not going to be easy to keep moving forward. But the other thing I noticed in those winning streaks

is that, you know, we kept winning at the end, but yet I don't think we were playing our best hockey and the confidence of winning was there, but eventually it caught up to us. And sometimes, you know, you can win the last three or four games where you probably maybe didn't deserve to win or even, you know, get a point out of some of those games. But somehow, because things were going well, you managed to do that.

The biggest thing is how do you deal with it when it does end? And that's the biggest challenge because a lot of times when it does end, it's caught up to you, some of those bad habits. And, you know, when things are going so easily, you start cheating in areas because you know you can and you can get away with it. But it's just about, you know, having a pulse, having your finger on things as you go through that streak

to make sure that we don't get complacent. And that was, for me, the biggest thing. It was great to't get complacent and that was for me the biggest thing uh it was great to win it was i mean it was important in the standings it was important for us moving forward but at the same time you always wondered you know what's going to happen when it does end and you always hope that you're still uh i guess focusing on uh on doing the right things and that you haven't slipped too much and gotten out of your, I guess, out of your structure so that it takes another five, six games to find your game again. This is a bit of a two-part question for you, Claude,

regarding the winning streak in Edmonton and as they go for their 17th consecutive win and what maybe Chris Knobloch will go through filling out his next lineup card or what you thought of going into a win streak. Is it as simple as don't change a winning lineup? They've got Corey Perry there. He's waiting to get into a game. Would you ever think for one second to put cory perry in in that situation

or anyone else well i know everybody would think differently and uh that that goes on the individual and you're asking me the question the kipper i'm going to tell you if i think it's going to help the team uh be better or if that's what the team needs i would make that change uh and that's that's my opinion because you know the other is just about superstition you know you say well am i gonna wreck something that's going well and i don't think it's one player that's gonna dictate that and at the end of the day you know you have to make decisions i guess with your brain and not with your emotions right so you make the right decision for the situation and in answering that question i wouldn't hesitate to make that move and

that that's the way i would handle it so when you see the guys not just the winning street teams but everyone goes away for a little bit has a break you know everyone goes to the dominican republic or wherever they go and they they drink a bunch of cervezas, then they come back. Are you a bag skate the guys when they come back? How do you transition back into the second half of the season with playoffs on the mind? Well, I have always thought that, especially in this day and age,

that the athletes are well-conditioned athletes, and they may go out there and do that kind of stuff. I would say 99% of them, while having a few drinks and relaxing, which is what they should do and what they need to do, there's no doubt they're probably working out as well. Most of the places they go to, they have gyms there, so they're probably riding a bike and doing a little bit of exercise on that same day. But I don't think anybody shuts her down where they don't do an ounce of exercise

while they're on their break. And I think the mental part of it is so important for them to go out there and relax and have a few drinks and enjoy themselves is probably what's going to rejuvenate them when they come back. One firing that I think caught a little bit of us off guard,

and yeah, sometimes you hear rumblings that a coach may be in trouble here and there but this one kind of surprised me and that was Todd McClellan in LA and just in terms of not being able to kind of turn around that tremendous or not turn around they're losing after that tremendous start that they had, especially on the road with all those consecutive wins. Just in terms of coaches trying to hold on, and I don't know, maybe should they have given them a chance coming out of the break? Or, I mean, in your opinion, do you think that, you know,

you were equally as surprised at that move? I think I was surprised, Kipper. You know, when I read it, I know that Todd is a great coach. And the one thing he's done with that team through the kind of the rebuild is he put some structure in there, which gave them some success. And they just happened to go through, you know, a losing streak. And I don't know what the thinking is with the upper management,

whether they felt it really needed a new voice or whether the pressure of continuing to be a real competitive and winning team dictated that decision. But I was surprised. There's no doubt in my mind that Todd would have turned that thing around. He's such a good coach and I think a well-respected coach as well. But again, we answer these questions we don't know everything that's going on behind those closed doors and and they made that decision but

from my end of it I was surprised when I first read it you're right we don't know but here's what we do know Claude is that Pierre-Luc Dubois was not at a level that Todd McClellan needed him to be. And just in terms of your coaching throughout your career, was there instances where you just knew you had one guy, one horse that you needed and you couldn't get him going? Just in terms of how frustrating is that for a coach? Oh, it is definitely frustrating and you're right that does happen at times where that one player that can make a difference isn't going at the time and

there's been times where coaches have paid the price and i think when i look at pierre-loup dubois i mean i had him at the world championships a few years ago and he was arguably our best forward at that tournament so i know what he's capable of and i know how good a player he can be uh but you know why aren't things going well for him right now uh i wish i had that answer i mean i haven't watched him close enough but definitely he's a he's a much better player than what he's shown so far and uh and as you mentioned there's no doubt that probably weighed in on part of the decision to let todd go listen i don't want to have you you know i don't want i'm not asking

to throw anyone under the bus but anyone in particular in your coaching career where you had to try different things including perhaps a fourth line visit or a healthy scratch before you got a big guy going again well you know the thing, and I'll be honest with you, Kipper, is the one thing I can tell you is some of the times I've been let go, I wish a player or two had been better. And, you know, at the same time, it doesn't mean that they were purposely trying to be bad. They just weren't good enough.

And you've tried to get them going. And like you said, at times you've had to make them healthy scratches. And I've done that with players where it's worked out well, you've made him healthy scratch, and you don't get a burr under their you-know-what, and all of a sudden they come out the next game and they want to prove you wrong. And nothing better for a coach than to have a player prove you wrong. That's what you want to see, and you want to see the commitment, the character that that player has.

And when he does that, it bodes well. It's certainly not an insult to the coach. On the contrary, it means the coach, you know, got to him and was able to make him turn it around. But for some players, like you said, you know, you keep hanging on. And some of those players are players that you really can't, I guess, sit out that easily. And all you can do is hope that they can turn it

around and then when they don't and then you get let go you do you question yourself say what if that guy you know had been playing the way he can would i still be there those are all the questions we go through after uh you've been terminated well and i can't help but listen to this and think about what's happened in Edmonton with like Skinner and McDavid, what happened there for Knobloch. I can't help but think about the Vancouver Canucks and the seasons that talk it

has gotten out of Besser and Patterson and Miller and those guys. You know, I used to sort of believe that a coach could only change a roster's success, I don't know, five or six wins or five or six losses. like you can't put the best guy in the world on san jose's bench right now and make them a playoff team you just can't how many wins and losses is it reasonable to think a coach can affect a roster over the course of a

season well i i really think it depends on the situation justin yeah i mean there's some teams like i i've watched and then you know like again I'm not the guy to throw anybody under the bus but I'll watch and say boy if that team had a little bit of structure you know uh it probably would have uh it probably would have five six maybe seven more wins and others it's like well you know what uh for example I use LA and you know with Todd let's say Todd had stayed maybe he would have got that team to winning again, which is what this new coach might be able to do for them. So I really think it depends on the situation.

Some teams, you really feel it's the structure. And when you look at the, I guess, their lineup, you say they're good enough to be better than they are. And I think it's just a matter of they probably need to play a little differently. And then others, it's just like, hey, they're going through a slump. Like I always thought Edmonton had a great team, which is what they're showing now. They're a very good team that's in the playoffs,

and they should have never been in the position you were at the beginning of the year. Now, is that because of a new coach, or is that just because they caught fire? And sometimes as coaches, we are the people that pay the price, but it's also sometimes a spark for teams to kind of wake up and say, we've got to do something about it. So, you know, it's easy to point the finger at upper management and it's easy for us to kind of defend ourselves,

but those are part of the business. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Claude, we're going to see Patrick Waugh behind the bench for the New York Islanders tonight against the Toronto Maple Leafs. We remember him as a head coach with Colorado, as this fiery guy smashing his fist against the glass, sometimes trying to get to another coach. Then he goes away for a little while and then coaches the kids

to the point where he brings up a national championship with the ramparts now he's back again at this point of his life or or his age or whatever you want to call it how much different do you think we're going to see Patrick Waugh behind an NHL bench now and and you know and his chances of having real success again? Well, I think you're going to see a difference in him, Kipper, because I think I read some of the things, quotes he said. And when he was in Colorado, Patrick was always a guy that felt like he wanted control of almost everything.

And I think we remember when he was in Colorado, he really wanted to be involved in trades and whatever, the roster decisions and all that stuff. And, you know, at one point I think he realized it cost him and he got pushed out. His comments as of late was that he's learned a lot from his past experience. And I think when it comes to i guess acting that way he won't have a choice with lou he's gonna have to worry about coaching

and not worry about trades and then player movements and all that stuff his job will be just a coach so i think he got himself in in the in a good organization to i guess to to solidify what he said lately in the in the media about uh you know learning and being a better uh coach and worrying about doing what he has to do as a coach versus uh trying to control everything that's around him do you think it's important to have people in the room who've won stanley cups like if you look at the islanders the only guy who's won a cup there is Robert Bortuzzo. You know, like, do you think Patrick, having been through that and lifted the cup,

has real value to a room that's never been there before? Sure does. You know, anytime you can get somebody who's won a cup and can share some of the things they went through to win the cup is great. You know, the year we won, we had Mark Recchi in our room, and I remember him stepping up and speaking to the team after I'd just finished talking.

He said, Coach, can I add something? And that was after we lost our first two games to Montreal at home, and we were going to Montreal for game three and four, and he spoke up and, you know, had some really good things to say and really helped, you know, solidify the message. So guys respect those kind of guys. Corey Perry, when we had him in Montreal the year

that they went to the finals, same thing. He just brought some good advice, calming influence in the dressing room at times and those kind of guys can really really help hockey teams as you go along. So it never hurts to have guys that know how to win.

Claude, really appreciate your time for doing this, man. Thanks for helping us out today. Well, love your show, guys. Keep it up, and thanks for having me on there. Appreciate it. Thanks so much. Claude Julian, NHL, top 15th winningest coach. Yeah. I mean, certainly an option for teams out there

as they consider their next guy. When I was at the Marlies, we had Ben Smith, who was on the Chicago Blackhawks and won the Stanley Cup. And you go down to the American League, and you got a guy who's won the Stanley Cup in your dressing room. It's crazy, you know, just to have someone, we were down 2-1 in in a series and have him stand up and be like when we were down on route to winning an actual nhl cup and everyone is just

like laser focus listening like what do you got it's it's a pretty cool thing the year we won in new york all the oilers the rangers the rangers went from like the rangers went from none to like 30 stanley cup rings in the room what he said there when you asked him about when you try to get him to bury a player which i loved but uh i tried hey good good work but he said something interesting where it's just like how frustrating that must be when you're a coach and a guy is just he's just not good enough right and you're like you can do whatever you want you can coach him as hard as you can but he's just not good when it's a goalie and you don't even know what to tell him yeah it's like like usually the player you can see it but as a coach it's harder to be like here's what's up they're not

stupid guys behind the bench like you've got your your seat fillers guys that can go out there and hold their own while the big boys rest yeah but you're gonna live and die by three four or five guys and that's not to take away from 15 on the roster because we know how you win stanley cups but those guys have to be your best leaders on and off the ice they they set the tone you lose one of them and you only have three. One gets hurt, you're down to two. Now you're talking about the difference of this guy keeping his job or losing it. Well, and that's why I think it's so, now anyway,

I don't know how much it was when you played, but like that player, those players come into the coach's office quite a bit. And the way you talked about McDavid putting his, you know, his two cents into the skills contest, they have some input on what happens around there and right or wrong they certainly have more power than they used to be but what happens within a team and there's a fine line between where you think you're gonna keep them or lose them right and it's i don't believe Claude touched on this, but I don't believe for one second anyone quits on a coach. They may quit on his message, or they may stop believing in the things that he's trying to say,

but they won't quit. They just find different ways to go out there and try to perform. Unfortunately, if you stop believing in your coach, that means you stop believing in a lot of other things, and that's when it truly derails. Yeah, and derails for you personally too, which is why a lot of guys, even when they don't like their coach, you just don't know how to not try, right?

Unless you're Kutra. Game time? Do it. All right, it's game time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary. Bet365 must be 19 plus, Ontario only. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary. Bet365. Must be 19 plus.

Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Only two games on tonight. Two pretty good ones, actually. Islanders in Toronto, obviously. And it is the Avalanche at Madison Square Garden to take on the Rangers, which is also a really good matchup. Just because we were talking about all those factors with the

leafs where they had all their best players were gallivanting all weekend let's just say that but i mean to their credit they should gallivant doing a lot of you know media availabilities talking to everybody like they were involved with everything. No one was saying they're morally wrong for having gallivanted, but the gallivanting did occur. Very dangerous word. The gallivant? Yes. It can mean a lot of things. I think there's some

value on the New York Islanders tonight as plus 130 underdogs against the Leafs. They need the game really badly. Leafs, they need games, but they don't need it as badly as the Islanders do. Like I said, with the G word that Kipper doesn't like. Some definite value there.

And just for some fun, just to test the Leafs theory, Pierre Engvall is plus 400 to score a goal tonight. And that would really test this theory. So have a look at that one. And the Colorado Avalanche and the New York Rangers, both teams minus 110, even money pretty much on both sides of it. They don't really know who's going to win that one.

I don't either. Love watching McKinnon. Great flickback option tonight. So give me the Avalanche because I like cheering for McKinnon. He'll be featured prominently at the Four Nations Cup or whatever it's called next year for Canada. So there you go.

I have a point from Nyes and Tavares tonight. Two rested guys. What word, do you want to close it out? Yeah, let me close it. Or do you have something else? No. Let me close it. All right.

That was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play it responsibly. What word would you prefer to gallivanting my search for a synonym was very literal nomadic roaming wandering i like to use um exploratory is that a good one yeah also a lot of things a lot of things. Very good. All right, let's take a break. All right.

All right, let's take a break. I did want to talk a little bit about this Four Nations that they announced on Friday. Great. We'll talk about it after we end on the other side of the break. All right. Wow, jeez. Wow. I know.

You want me to produce? I'm producing. You are producing, Sammy. I got no problems with that, especially with my voice today. Yeah. All right. More real Kipper and Bourne after the break. Breaking down the top stories in hockey and Elliott Friedman every day.

The Jeff Merrick Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. All right, let's welcome in senior writer for The Athletic, Ian Mendez, who was kind enough to join in. Busy day for Ian, who I believe was in London, Ontario, for London Police Service press conference, talking about the investigation and the charges to the 2018 World Junior Team, five players.

Ian, thanks for joining us. How are you? Hey, guys. Ian, thanks for joining us. How are you? Hey, guys. Yeah, happy to join you. Wish it was under better circumstances, but certainly an important story to cover today. For sure. I'm going to start this off by being real quick on my first question,

Ian. Like, what did we learn today? Oh, boy. You know, Kipper, like, it, you know, I think a lot of us were wondering how forthcoming would the London Police Department be? Because, you know, there's been a lot of public interest in this case for the better part of two years, right? Where I think a lot of people were wondering, would we finally get? I think the question that most of your listeners have was, why did you reopen the investigation in 2022 if you investigated this alleged sexual assault in 2018 closed it in february of 2019 what changed in the three years after that to

force you to reopen it that was a very basic question one that i think we were hoping would get answered and i'll tell you we did not learn the answer to that today. And I think that was obviously shrouded in the fact that they're saying, look, there's an active investigation here. We can't, if we tell you stuff, it could compromise the impending legal proceedings. So, you know, we didn't learn a ton. But I'll tell you, though, the most interesting moment for me, or one of them, was the police chief here in London issuing an apology, basically saying, we're sorry it took this long. This shouldn't take this long. So it was a really odd sort of disconnect where, you know, you're apologizing, but you're not telling us the reason why you're apologizing because you didn't and couldn't shed light onto or shed light sorry onto why this

investigation was reopened in 2022 yeah certainly that was an interesting note ian i guess the next question in the theme of kipper keeping it short here is what's next what what is the next sort of date on the timeline here? And what would that mean for the players and teams? Yeah. So if you're looking at a calendar, you would take a pen out and you would circle April the 30th, which is a Tuesday.

And that is the next court date that is listed on the docket for this legal proceeding. So what happened today was the Crown, which is representing the victim in this case, they basically alerted the five defense lawyers, we are going to send via courier today all of our evidence. Because, you know, the way it works in Canada and in most legal systems in the Western world, if you're charged with a crime, you, as the accused, have a right to know, what do you have against me? What are you talking about?

Like, you can't, like, so they're going to send, and this is kind of, you know, part of discovery, you're going to send to them via courier today. And the way that the Crown Attorney described it, guys, was, we have significant paper and audio evidence. And they're sending that over. So now the defense, the five lawyers, they'll have roughly 12 weeks, okay, to comb over all of this information. And maybe they want to do their own investigation and talk to some people and corroborate some stuff or dismiss some stuff, whatever it is. But you have 12 weeks now. And the next time we all get together

is April the 30th. And that's the next hearing. That's not the trial. That's just kind of the next hearing. And we'll find out what the next process is. But in terms of dates and things to monitor, that's the next date that I guess we're keeping an eye on. Ian, the general feeling is that this could take a year and a half, two years. Was that still the feeling out of London today that by the time this is said and done, we could be looking at something that could last as long as 24 months? Yeah, like so the way it works, like once this gets kind of escalated and kind of a trial date is set in Canada,

you have 30 months when it gets to kind of the criminal side of things. You have 30 months to have your trial completed, but that includes like the, the clock kind of started when these players were officially booked in a couple of weeks ago. So you have 30 months from January of 2024 to have this all done. And when you talk to lawyers in London, what they'll tell you is, and partially it's a function of the pandemic and kind of a clogged legal system is cases are taking anywhere from you know 16 to 20 months sometimes to kind

of play itself out so if we're following that timeline you know people telling me that this one has a little bit more not a little bit a lot more interest in it that they might be able to expedite matters and maybe they'll fast tracktrack it a little bit. But even if they do that, you're probably looking at a trial in the 2025. So there's significant public interest in this and how this plays out. I'd be shocked if they ever got to the point where they just let it lapse in the 30 months. So I don't think that'll happen. But I do think that this is going to play out in the in the 2025 in terms of when we

might actually see the players for example show up in court like so today when they had a hearing everybody's just simply represented by their lawyer like the players themselves aren't compelled to be physically on site or on in this case on a zoom call when you get to an actual trial that's going to change but in all those hearings up until then, their lawyers can just kind of appear on their behalf. Ian, do we think we've heard the last of player names from this? You know, we've seen five players get charged, but we have heard that eight players were involved or around. I know that there was some calling for other witnesses to help today. What are your thoughts on is it just sort of going to end

with these five guys? Well, I think it's really interesting to note, Justin, that Hockey Canada has released a statement again this afternoon, and they were very unequivocal and very clear that all of the members of the 2018 team remain suspended from participating in Hockey Canada activities. So think about the World Championships, for example, coming up in the spring. For now, anybody on that team, you can't play for Team Canada.

And I think the one thing we learned here is, you know, they had a case here in 2019 that they closed and then they reopened three years later, and five players subsequently got charged. It would be awfully naive, I think, of everybody to suggest that, well, it's case closed. If we've learned anything, this is a fluid, albeit process that's moving at a glacial pace, a fluid situation. So I think it's important, though, to presume that everybody, I mean, our whole legal system is pinned on the fact

that innocent until proven guilty. And I think we need to make sure that we hammer home that none of these charges have been tested in court. All five players whose names have been attached to this have not been found guilty of anything, and they're going to fight this.

But it doesn't mean that the other players in the roster are completely exonerated because, like I said, Hockey Canada is making sure they're waiting until this process plays itself out before they feel comfortable clearing everybody. Ian, I think it was one of the last questions, and it didn't get through, but someone asked about the National Hockey League in terms of their investigation.

And if they, I don't know how it was thrown out, if they worked together or they shared any information. Was there any sense at all that you got out of London that they've been alone on this without any inclusion from the NHL at all? You know what, Kipper? Yeah, that was one of the last questions. And the sergeant who answered it, basically, I think the word she used was complex. Like having the NHL and Hockey Canada run sort of concurrent or simultaneous investigations.

She just used the word. It made it a little bit more complex. And it didn't. I mean, she didn't use the word collaborate. She didn't use the word cooperate. So I would imagine if you're a police department and you're trying to run an investigation and two other outside entities who you know you you're not beholden to are running similar investigations you're going to feel like okay like are we exhausting witnesses are we exhausting resources so uh i don't there's a

level of of collaboration there at least it didn't didn't sound like it. And, and I think the London police department looks at this and says, okay, this is our jurisdiction. This is what matters. Like we hold ourselves to a, a higher degree of, of, of justice than the national hockey league or hockey Canada does.

And our ruling is the only ruling that matters quite frankly. So I think they probably took that approach. But again, I think there's just a lot of questions, guys, about the London Police Department, their handling of this. And I don't think there were satisfactory answers given, although they kept saying, we just can't give those answers because of the nature of the impending legal proceedings. So I'm curious then what you thought of Gary Bettman's answers. and if you got any more out of

that that presser the one thing i'll just note is you know you mentioned that those guys are not eligible for hockey canada as they noted um but they did say bill daly said i believe in that presser that they would be eligible for the four nations face off well they would at least make that decision right that's a separate thing than hockey canada other than that how did you feel that betman daily and them answered the questions necessary on their at their press conference yeah i mean listen i mean if you're gary betman you would say to yourself these alleged acts happened before these players entered my league um they're being investigated by the police i mean what do you want

me to do like if i'm if i'm sitting in g Bettman's shoes, and now, the way Gary explained it was, look, they're all on leave. Like, I don't have to do anything, right? Like, the big takeaway I had from Gary was, well, I don't have anything to do because, A, they're all on leave, and B, which I thought was really interesting, is he brought up the fact that all of them

are pending free agents, albeit they might be restricted free agents, but they're all free agents, which was kind of code for, you know, if you don't sign them, we don't have to suspend them. Kind of, you know, was sort of the read between the lines there. And I think if I'm listening to Batman, he's like, well, we don't have to do anything. And if these players are found not guilty, then we can have the conversation of, you know, they can sign and they can move on.

But if they're found guilty of these charges, one, two, three, four, or five of these players are found guilty, then we can have a conversation about what happens. And remember, Gary Bettman, though, he does have broad, broad, almost discretionary powers to still act. And even if the players are found not guilty, Bettman could say, you know, this was conduct unbecoming of a National Hockey League player. And even though it didn't rise to the level you know actions or wrongdoing it it went against what

we think is what a hockey player should act like and you're going to be suspended for eight games or 20 you know he has that in his back pocket but in listening to him it sure sounded like he was like you know what this isn't an issue i have to deal with because they've all been handled by their individual teams they're all on leave and they're all free agents so until we get to a point where they're active players and they're looking to play then we'll cross that bridge but he doesn't it sure didn't sound like that that bridge was going to be crossed anytime soon and we know it's been a long day for you uh including uh covering live the 45 minute uh news conference but we sure appreciate your time joining us today man thanks oh of course anytime for you too thanks thanks ian appreciate you pal all right ian mendez senior writer for

the athletic um now is there a tweet uh coming Darren Drager and R. Elliot Friedman about the possibilities of the five players regarding the salary cap, implications to their respective clubs? Yeah, it sounds like the four players on three teams, so that would be the Devils, Flyers, and Flames, could receive cap relief for those players being gone, which, you know, I don't know what your thoughts are on that i mean it's huge for the philadelphia flyers who have just lost six million dollars on

carter hart i mean that's their number if it would be the whole thing or well that's just it are we talking about some cap relief all of it does it just get it would have to be all of it simply right it'd be weird to do any portion of it yeah it's either off or it's not yeah you're you're absolutely right so i mean we're talking about a significant amount of money that they would have to now go and shop for a goalie if they if they have any aspirations of trying to make the playoffs yeah his cap hit this year is four million four million okay that's not bad. That's not six. Cap Friendly has him listed as non-roster.

Yeah. Just non-roster, not side of it. Now, the only thing I... I think, I mean, it feels like that's kind of the right move in this scenario to give those teams relief. No, like I... I don't necessarily agree. You don't think so?

Well, I mean... Well, I guess they probably. It's hard to know. Like, where's the line that on cap relief? Cap relief, in my understanding, is just written on injuries. Yeah. So it gets a little dicey, guys. Are you worried about setting a precedent in some way? Absolutely.

Like, okay, guys being charged, mental wellness. Where else can you get cap relief? There's clubs that are going to ask that question. And you know what happens. Let's be honest. They find a little loop, and they'll drive a truck right through it. So a team doesn't like that a player is, you know, whatever, not contributing, earning too much,

and they're like, look, he just needs to, or something happened off the ice we're not happy about. Guy gets pulled over for dui does that qualify for cap relief yeah so i i agree with you sammy i think it's probably the right thing to do right now in this case but i also see what you're saying yep that it could be one more thing i'll add to that that i don't think that the league can just turn around and make this decision on their own they've got to make sure that i think it's in conjunction with the NHL players association.

This is part of the CBA. This is part of a salary cap that they're partnered with. I don't believe that if that's the case on what they're reporting, that it's been stamped and signed off by the NHL Players Association. So keep an eye on that in the next few days or coming weeks on whether or not this thing goes through or not. Because if it does, my belief is that it has to include the permission from the Players Association.

Makes sense. And if you missed our interview with Bill Daly on Friday, I thought he was really good with us. I thought he gave us a lot of insight. You asked him a lot of really good questions. That, you know, this sort of stuff is interesting to see their decisions there, but also the stuff on expansion, you know, over the All-Star weekend, that's something we haven't really got into a ton here.

It's just that that seems realistic not too far down the road. Yeah. The one thing that stood out again for me from Commissioner Bettman is that he's hanging on to Arizona. He is just hanging around. Just hanging around. He loves Old Town Scottsdale. You know what?

He's like a member of Troon North or something. He's like, we got to stay there. I got to go there. Yeah, but think about like The times that Edmonton Could have left Ottawa could have left Winnipeg did

But he brought them back Your point is he does this For all their teams My point is Is this guy just does not like What might be perceived As the easy way out Or wrong like you said

He hates being wrong Oh yeah it's a major red You know if you put a franchise somewhere and it can't stay, it looks bad on Gary, for sure. And I loved, you know, I went back and watched some of the stuff after. And I loved his answer about the Georgia thing, about Atlanta. He's like, well, if that person was to sell this to you, and just the way that he did it was so vintage Batman, where he just like backhanded told you exactly what was happening. If they were going to sell this to you, I was like, oh my God.

Gary's great. He's condescending, demeaning. He'll tell you. I've grown to love his press conferences. I'm not fully defending him here, but he's not wrong on Arizona. They just haven't had the right ownership or the right location.

Hold the phone. What do you mean he's not wrong in Arizona? You put a team, boys, in Scottsdale, and it's a gold mine. Why then? Have they not got a team in Scottsdale? Because everybody wants a free rink. That's why. Yeah.

And if you're a billionaire. Tell Jason Marullo there, whoever the owner is. Alex. I know. Jason Marullo is an artist. No, Jason. Oh. But I thought Marty Walsh, what he said was like, whoa.

That was Marty Walsh's coming out party. Yeah. Marty Walsh is great. I got to tell you right now. I got to tell you. This guy's got it done. He went a couple of notches in my books because we have not heard someone step up just to say,

hey, I don't care what the reason is. It might be over lunch, but every once in a while you got to say, I don't like what I'm hearing on the other side. It's good. It's healthy. It is. And not also to be outdone,

he just immediately got under national hockey. This has been a huge issue forever. And it's, you know, it's one of my hobby horses I talk about the show, but like it's a joke, the lack of international competition. And I've always whined about it. It's something I care about deeply,

about a ton of Canadians care about deeply, clearly. And it's just like, yep, we're got a four nations face off and two Olympics, then World Cup. He just immediately came in and got it done. He said it was a priority. It's like, you know, politics guy, he's like, you mean this is the issue?

Yeah. I'll figure this out. I'll land this plane. And he did. No, it's good. So give him credit. And then he's burying the coyotes. I'm like, yes, Marty. Let's go. Let's get Marty on the marty let's go get marty on the show oh i would love to get marty on the show uh we did hear from commissioner daily where he's not quite in agreement that the pa has been left out he did well i thought that was i thought daily

was awesome i enjoyed having him i thought that was a bit of an evasive answer by daily because i thought he was saying they have, you know, when players have complained, we have tried to take care of their issues. And to me, Daly is answering the questions like when the guys don't like the temporary dressing room, they fix the dressing room. I don't think they're addressing the fact that

the guys don't want to be in Arizona for four years playing in front of 4,000 people and give away tickets. That to me is the issue here. It's not, they don't like the snacks in the locker room. So I think they're talking about different items there personally. Listen, we're not asking Marty Walsh and Gary Bettman to turn into Butch Goring and Biz Nasty here. We just want a little bit of, make it interesting for us again.

Well, you know, it's funny though, you go to daily, you're like, yeah, you actually pulled out the Marty Walsh quote. And you're like, yeah, Marty Walsh was pretty direct and forthright. And Daly interrupts you and goes, oh, was he? You know, like, I wonder how many times he's been direct and forthright already. Absolutely loved Bill Daly on the show on Friday. Thought he was great. Thought Kipper grinded him a little bit. It was good.

No, I didn't grind him. No, but I was like, all right, we got to let little bit. I tried to let Bill go, but I was like, all right, we got to let him go. And Bill hung in there. He hung in there. It was great. Anyways. Everybody thinks we're going to see Salt Lake City a lot sooner. But, you know, they do want symmetry.

They like symmetry. So is it Atlanta? Is it... He mentioned Cincinnati. I was was like no one's talking about cincinnati couldn't rifle off every email they've received in the last three years yeah all right yeah he's a just every obscure team austin new york yeah lexington kentucky fresno california anywhere except where hockey's most popular. Not Quebec, not Saskatoon, not, yeah, just put it somewhere strange. Print money anywhere

in Canada, but let's make America. Alright, just two games on tap while the rest of the league continues to sober up. I gotta say, I woke up today on Monday and was like, God, I'm glad I don't do that anymore. Good. Talk me into it. As a person, just a two-day hangover?

I would feel that, too. All right, thanks to Butch Goring in the first hour. Claude Julian, one of the winningest coaches in NHL history. And Ian Mendez. Goring with the line of the day when he says he doesn't know if the Islanders are world beaters or egg beaters. Not a bad one. Enjoy your two games

tonight and we're back tomorrow on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show.