Real Kyper & Bourne - Surprise Flames Trade + Triple-Digit Cap with Frank Seravalli

Episode Date: January 31, 2025

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne begin the national hour with Sportsnet’s Ryan Leslie to examine the Calgary Flames acquiring forwards Joel Farabee and Morgan Frost from the Philadelphia Flyers in exchange for Andrei Kuzmenko and two draft picks. The trio goes on to discuss contributions from the Flames’ veterans including Jonathan Huberdeau and Rasmus Andersson, Dustin Wolf’s success as a rookie, and what the future holds for Kuzmenko in Philadelphia (2:00). Afterwards, Frank Seravalli joins the show to break down the NHL’s projected salary cap increase over the next few years, what it means for player contracts, whether every market can spend to the cap ceiling, the implications for pending free agents like Mikko Rantanen, and much more (27:00).The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's take a national on the real Kipper and born show we are live sports net 650 in Vancouver sports net 960 in Calgary this hour real Kipper and born brought to you brought to you by bet 365 Nick Kiprios Justin, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandale, and Jake, Jen Rollnick. There we go. Yeah, I knew that. I knew that. I don't know. I think I put it on.

I think I put it on. It's Friday. I did put Jen on there. And thank you to the nameless texter that said, Sammy, don't forget to turn to change the jersey. Because it worked. And I did. Because it worked. And I did.

Because I did forget. Phone reminder. Yeah, I got a phone. And with that comes a very good trade for the Calgary Flames. And we're gonna join Ryan Leslie in a few seconds here. But just to reiterate, a lot of talk about some big names and Rantanen, we certainly know sucked a lot of energy or

oxygen off that big trade, but lo and behold, the Calgary Flames. I don't know if anyone saw this coming. Fairby, Frost, Kuzmanko, Pelche. I mean, these are the significant deal and makes a statement about the flames are going to do. And here to talk about it, Ryan Leslie, NHL host on SportStat, Hockey Night in Canada. Always does a great job covering the Calgary Flames for us. Ryan, thanks for joining us, man. How are you?

Where are you? I'm great, thanks for having me, guys. And where are you? Sorry, I apologize. Costco? My daughter's volleyball tournament. And I thought there'd be nothing worse than taking you into a gymnasium of screaming volleyball players. Sorry about the backdrop,

but it's great to be with you guys. Did we win our first couple of matches or? It's the opening match, boys. I could take the whole audience in if you want to take a quick peek, but a bit of a rating spike. Well, maybe that still might be the case, but before that, we got to talk about this big trade

and who really saw it coming and just the overall feeling waking up this morning thinking that a team that maybe we didn't take too seriously as a playoff team is all of a sudden now a little deeper. Yeah I think that's fair kipper. I don't think many people saw it. We certainly didn't, but full marks to Craig Conroy, the general manager of the Calgary Flames, who as you guys and probably a lot of your audience knows, when he took over for Brad True Living, he had a lot of work to do. Craig did, so did Brad. But Craig had a lot of work to do. And he had a lot of free agents that he had to deal with. Well, he's dealt with that. And now he has found

that this year, this room is as cohesive, I can tell you this guys is a locker room that I've been ever around in Calgary. They love each other. They love playing for one another. They want to be here. So Craig kind of quickly dealt with the guys who didn't want to be here and he got guys that did. So long story short, he came in and he kind of got this thing where internally they believed they were better than us outside experts believed that the Flames would be this season. So he knew they knew that they were better than this. And there's some veteran guys in there, there's some Stanley Cup champions in there, there's some young guys that Craig said, you're gonna have a chance to play here.

He's lived up to his end of the bargain, so too have those young players, so opportunities. So the culture's changing, right? They got a new coach the last couple of years, and Ryan Huska, and the way he has these guys prepared, the way that they play for one another, it's really great to see. So as it kind of comes into focus for the sake of this conversation with this trade, nobody saw it really coming. But it was a reward that Craig felt he had to give this group because they have worked so hard to stay in this conversation of a wild card slash playoff position. So full marks to any team that does that, especially when us experts say no chance.

And here we are now end of January going into February and they are hanging around. They're in the mix. So he had to go out and give him a little help. And you guys have been on enough teams, you know, what kind of shot in the arm that can give you. Certainly very difficult to say goodbye to those two players for that locker room. You know, Jacob Pelche was incredibly emotional yesterday. Pulled out of the lineup and very emotional about this and we can get into it. But that was certainly a surprise to everyone, including

him, including us. We could start to put some of the pieces together during the broadcast. And nothing was official until after the game. So we see Morgan Frost pulled out. We see how it all kind of comes to fruition. And it made for great TV. And it certainly was an emotional night inside that Flames room. Most importantly, it's a team that got back in the winning track. So pretty interesting night all around. Yeah, it's fascinating from a Flame scene that felt like this was a retool year or whatever

the phrase you want to use. They've been good and adding these two guys, does it change their plans, their trajectory, their long-term outlook at all? You know, it's a good question because everybody seems to have a different approach or opinion as to what the Calgary Flames are or where they are. So if you were to talk to Ryan Huska, Craig Conroy and their ownership group, they'd tell you, no, we're here to win. It's us on the outside who are like, they're retooling, they're rebuilding. They said goodbye to all those free agents

that we talked about a moment ago. But Ryan Huska's coaching for his job. Craig Conroy is GMing for his job. And ownership, they wanna win. And they've got a new rink coming up in three years where the doors are open. And it takes time to get a good team in place that you need to have, I think, for when you open a new building. So to answer your question, I mean, I don't

know what, you know, we all thought that they weren't going to be good. They're, they're a pretty good team that loves playing for another. They're not retooling. They're kind of showing you that they're, they're in the hunt. This isn't a burn it down to the studs. Like maybe there was a lot of talk of that earlier. So this does put them in a position where they've added players in their age range that they like and going not only today, but going forward. Remember Jacob Pelche, God love him. He, you know, he cleared waivers. He went down. Any team could have had him. Kuzmenko was at a lineup for what felt like an eternity, probably was waiver bound. They both loved their time in Calgary. They both wanted to remain flames. That's not a secret, but Craig Conrad had to make this deal and he did make a good deal for today and

for going forward for whatever the direction or whatever the label is. He got players that are bigger in key positions that are in that 24-25 age range so it works for where they are now and for where they want to be. You're watching and listening to Ryan Leslie, NHL host of Sportsnet covering the Calgary Flames and Hockey Night in Canada talking about the big Calgary trade. And let's start with Morgan Frost here, a guy that, you know, at times has probably been looked upon to add more to the Philadelphia Flyers at this point of his career, but seems to be a guy like Craig Conroy really, really targeted. Where is his upside? Where do you see Ryan Huska now

Where do you see Ryan Huska now starting him? Can he develop into a bona fide, you know, number one or number two centerman on a on a contending team? Yeah, that remains to be seen. You guys probably see a lot more of him than I do given the conference. But I will say that Craig has a real belief in both these players, both first-round picks from a few years back, and you know in terms of slotting, they feel that both kind of, you know, maybe, I don't know, they're not, I don't know if they're a first-line guy yet, Nick, I don't know if that's the case, you know, they're pretty happy with what they have in terms of that natural slotting in those positions. But certainly, there's an opportunity there.

There's nothing set here. There's so much tinkering with what Husker has to do because every given, there's no cushion. So they're gonna try and get these guys acclimated. They're gonna get them into where they think they fit properly and with who, that's gonna take a little time. And I think that's the key to why this deal

was so important now versus the trade deadline. Get out ahead of it. Give these guys more time to figure out not only their who plays with who, but get these guys comfortable, get them feeling right about it, and then develop some chemistry with some guys. There's some pairings here, guys, in Calgary that really work.

And that wasn't always the case from day one to where we are now. You could look at Jonathan Hubertow and Nazem Kadri, who have really found something the last couple of months. It didn't start out that way. This is their second goal round. And now they're both having fantastic seasons, and Hu Hubert was on pace to his best season as a flame So and and that's important. That's really important And then you could talk about Michael backlin and Blake Coleman who've are a fixture and now they've got Coronado in there

So you start to try to figure out where those two new faces will fit We're gonna find out they're both in the lineup tomorrow night. The Flames are bringing them in and they're gonna be in against Detroit and they've got a back-to-back with Seattle on Sunday night. So it's thrown right into the fire and we're gonna see what opportunity presents itself and what those guys go out and take because the one thing you've got to say about Calgary right now, there's positions or ice time we'll say, up for grabs and they can go out and take it if they decide to dig in and be the players that I think Craig hopes they are and thinks they are. Ryan, with the salary cap going up, hopefully there's less concern about every nickel you're

given a player, but Faribee does make a good amount of money. Do you think the Flames will continue to spend along with the Cap or spend more of the Cap as it goes up here and as they get towards their new building? I do, I really do and they have traditionally and historically guys been to the Cap spenders. They have no problem with that. Murray Edwards and company of the ownership group are serious about about a contender and a winner and they have always done that. Now right now, it hasn't made a lot of sense, right?

You said goodbye to so many faces, six or seven free agents off the top of my head and now you've got some dough as everybody knows in Calgary. Craig wants to spend it, but he wants to spend it wisely. Did a guy like Miko Rentinen, did Craig fancy a guy like Miko Rentinen? You're darn right. Does he fancy some of the big name free agents that I'm sure you guys have talked about? Yes, he does. So this is just a sort of a holding pattern to get various ducks in a row to where he then can go big game and big name hunting in the near future.

I don't think Craig's done. I just think the timing right now, he got what he wanted for this. And now I think you've still got some time if your team then gives you more indication that they're ready. And it'll be fascinating to see what we get from today to the trade deadline, to the draft and to the fall. Because Greg does not, he's one of the more competitive guys I know. It doesn't matter if it's darts or if it's the national hockey league, he wants to win.

And you guys know a handful or more of guys just like that. You've had teammates that would just try to skin you at every game. So pardon me so it's it's one of those things where hopefully you got me here there we go you're good just one of those things where he's you know he's not you got to strike that balance of for your job and for the immediate future and for down the road and I think Craig's really committed to that so yeah I think Flames fans are excited to see and you heard him say right in the availability last night Or maybe you heard it today, but just the idea that he can't walk around people like does your phone even work Connie?

Like get going here. Let's go people have been patient I'm not suggesting these two players put them over the top But certainly they're in a better position today and he had to do what he had to do for this group Well, there's there's no doubt that they're deeper and I'm sure a guy like Rasmus Andersen's looking at the the added depth and like you know between his play this season and Making us laugh against a guy like Tom Wilson. I like Ryan he's not going anywhere is he he's when the times right

they're gonna they're gonna lock this guy in Greg would love to lock him in and I think Rasmus would love to be locked in but here we are he's got another year after this one so everybody's trying to pump the brakes on that they They've certainly had conversations. They've certainly joked about it with one another. It's a great relationship between the two. So at this point, there's no sense of worry or concern. The calendar is a thing. Certainly the cap going up is going to be a thing. That certainly works. Why would he sign or why would that conversation get too heated right now until you know what you're fully dealing with and

You know he and Mackenzie Weger are key pieces on that blue line and don't forget Kevin Ball injured, but he came over in the Markstrom trade for those who probably Remember this This guy's a big body who's really impressed people. I mean really impressed people. This is stay-at-home defenseman. Big boy, big stick, really allows Rasmus Anderson to be the Rasmus Anderson of old. Offensive and that snarl and that edges back. I loved, I was between the benches when he and Tom Wilson were going out. It was unreal. It was unreal. God, Tom Wilson is just a national treasure isn't he? And Rasmus is you know legendary for the chirps.

So he's a big part of the identity. He's a big part of that room and that culture. I would suggest to you that that deal would get done. It just, it's about timing right now. So earlier in the year, we were trading Kadri back to the Leafs. That doesn't seem like that's happening. Yeah, I heard the Leafs. That doesn't seem like that's happening. I heard the Leafs. I heard Colorado, you know, all these things. Full marks to Nazem Kadri,

guys. His maturity, his play, his leadership, his willingness to, you know, he's never said no to anything their communications department has asked and put forth. This guy just approaches and attacks each day like a real pro. And it was, you'll recall guys, it did not get off the right way in Calgary when he and Hubert O came here and it's taken some time, but he has always put his best foot forward. So I don't know, especially with the way it's going right now, that leadership, it's so important inside that Calgary room.

I have no doubt there's teams that covet him right now it doesn't make a lot of sense they really like him he really likes it here I guess if you're have your hair blown back by something you think about it but I don't think he's a player that Craig is thinking about in terms of you know movement so that would surprise me but but stranger things have happened we didn't see this one coming but that would be a major shock to the system but he's been a really good fit a really good leader you know it took some time for him to probably get his bearings with a new team that was originally thought to be going in a different

direction in terms of boy you've got all these guys after the Kachuk deal and everything's happening and it didn't go that way so it's taken some time to dig in and dig out and they're doing it as pros. So we'll see how that one goes but now he feels like a Calgary flame for now and for the near future. Ryan I got to ask you about Dustin Wolfe and I know that the hype was there even waiting for him in terms of being the the greatest Goaltender that's out there that isn't currently in the NHL, but you still never know, right? I'm just looking Off the top of my head and thinking about the goaltenders that Calgary Flames have been blessed with either, you know Vernon or Kiprasaw

But yeah wolfs like sliding right in there now, isn't he? Flames have been blessed with either, you know, Vernon or Kiprasaw. But Wolf's like sliding right in there now, isn't he? He is. I'm with you, right? Because he's not the biggest goalie at all. And I had my doubts. He was a late, late, late draft pick. He did it all as we all have heard in the Western Hockey League. He did everything and could play every single night in the American Hockey League. It didn't matter if it was back to backs and the second game was at two o'clock.

It wouldn't matter. This kid, I wasn't so sure until this year, guys, and he's made a believer out of me. I just didn't think he was gonna see through traffic. As simple as that sounds, and maybe a caveman of me, I just saw, I just didn't see it there. And you know what? His anticipation, his speed, his ability to read things and his ability to mentally just lock it down after something doesn't go his way, really impressive.

And now he's got the workload under him. Now he's got the, he's always had the confidence, but now he's got National Hockey League confidence And you know what guys he's made believers out of his teammates and that took time, too They heard what we all heard the hype and you guys have been around players. Okay, who's this hero coming in to save the day? But he has made them McKenzie wiger told me look there was a time about five six games into This season where he made a couple of cross crease saves. Couldn't remember the game, but he said, we're on the back of the bus. A lot of the veterans going, we got something here. And he said, he's the single reason why we are

where we are in the standings. Without him, they'd be lost. They have faith in Dan Valdar for sure. He's just not coming out on the right side of it in terms of wins, losses or, or some of the numbers They've loved both of their goalies plays, but there's no doubt that Dustin Wolf another redhead Isn't that wild when you think about Mika Kiprasov? But you've got a young smaller goalie who has captivated this city's imagination And well Mike Vernon as well a smaller ginger as well

So they've had these goalies and everybody's kind of hoping this ride continues to last because he has been brilliant. He has and our goalie guru Steve Valakett says he's the real deal and gonna be around for a while. So that's how I know it's legit. Last one, just a quick one for me. What do you think the rest of Andre Kuzmenko's career looks like?

Ooh, good question. I have no idea how it goes going forward in Philly what does the injured he was you know he's a charismatic skilled young hockey player who lights up a room sometimes and can light up the ice on other nights but putting it all together has been a real challenge we'll see if how it works in Philly with Michkov and company so no no no no no let me rephrase this okay what is tortorella gonna do with this guy? What did you do? What did you bring me? Yeah, this Yeah, that's I'd be fascinated right now to turn on the old flyers or Philly sports stations

But I can't wait hopefully and hopefully for a Jacob Pell chase You know, he put out some strong statements to about how much he loved the city how much he loved the guys inside that room they took him for a few beers last night both them just to say goodbye and and Now a new chapter, but it was it was certainly emotional for Jacob Pell Chay yesterday You know and the one thing I'll leave you guys with is that he said today your thoughts are with Chris snow Right who passed away from ALS who was that was Chris snow guys with is that he said today your thoughts are with Chris Snow, right? Who passed away from ALS. Who was, that was Chris Snow made Jacob Pelche the Flames pick that year. It was his pick to make and Brad True Living was on board with

it and so certainly that was part of his emotions last night and certainly today. So part of the sports, right? Professional sports, this happens. It's not new. It's not gonna stop happening anytime soon, but for a young player, it hit him hard and those players are wishing him all the best in the new chapter. With that, a wonderful tribute to Chris Snow

and his memory and the family as well. Great job Ryan really appreciate your time pal and uh Giving us some real insight into this big trade with the calgary flames philadelphia flyers. All right pal. Have a good one Okay, have a great weekend Thanks for having me. We'll do it again soon. Thanks. I appreciate it Ryan leslie outside of volleyball tournament He's he's's great too.

It's you know, I was just looking today. It's funny we're talking with the Flames. 15 years ago today, the Calgary Flames traded Dion Finouf to the Leafs. Is that right? 15 years ago today. Big trade time. Feels old. Feels old. That's crazy. And Mike Vernon, he mentioned Mike Vernon there. Last summer I went on with our good buddy George Rusek out in Calgary to talk about the Masters. And he's like, oh, welcome to the show, Sam McKeith from the golf show or whatever. He's like, Sam, say hello to Hall of Famer Mike Vernon.

I was like, what? And Mike Vernon started interviewing me about golf. I was like, what's happening? I was like, yeah, you know, Vern, oh, I'm trying to be his buddy. That was great. That was great. Yes, there you go., I'm like trying to be his buddy. That was great. That was great. Yes. There you go.

Goldrasek. He's listening. That's right up there with, I threw out the first pitch at Yankee Stadium after we won the cup. Cool. Oh yeah. And then, yeah, that's been very exciting. I've got Don Mattingly asking me if he can get my autograph to sign to a Ranger.

Yeah. I'm like, what is wrong with this picture? if he can get my autograph to sign to a Ranger cap. I'm like, what is wrong with this picture? The guy's like 400 batter, he's one title, he's the captain of the New York Yankees. That's incredible. This is embarrassing. That's very cool. I gotta get outta here.

Do you guys wanna do game time? Cause we got Frank coming up after the break, so we should get this out of the way here. As game time, is it about bet 365? Visit the app, play the odds and find out why it's ever ordinary at bet 365. Must be 19 plus, Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

Looking at a couple of futures things again. I love looking at the future stuff. All the regular season awards are, you know, they're kind of, I wouldn't say boring, but the numbers aren't as good as, or as long as you would expect. And the thing that breaks my heart the most, and I bring it up here again, is the Leon Dreisaitl for heart number. We had him as the heart winner when he was plus 2,500.

I think I even brought it up at 28. It is now plus 160. He is the odds on favorite to win the heart trophy. What's wrong with heart of you guys. I better at this than me. I'm an idiot 20 on it. Come on. So and they so the other the other two guys That are closest to dry saddle is Nathan McKinnon at plus 300 Connor Hellebuck at plus 350 Connor McDavid at plus 600 and Quinn Hughes all the wayon at plus 300, Connor Hellebuck at plus 350, Connor McDavid at plus 600, and Quinn Hughes all the way down at plus 1,100. So-

There's your current value bet. I don't think, you know, it's hard for, go ahead. Can Connor get up there with Leon coming down, or is it just like- Right. They'll both- They move up and down together. Yeah, exactly.

And- It's tough to make up ground on your line mate. Tough to make up ground on your line mate if, you know, your line mate doesn't kind of continue a bit of a pace here. Yeah. And the Norris number... I know they've been on separate lines. Yes. The Norris number here is... Sorry, I just lost it here. It's Quinn Hughes is the favorite minus 130. Kale McCarr is plus 210 Zak Wrensky plus 340 and then the next closest is

Josh Morrissey at 200 to 1 so they're pretty confident They're pretty confident Having a huge year and Leon dry subtle obviously a huge favorite for the rocket Richard the next closest is And Leon Drysettle obviously a huge favorite for the Rock at Richard. The next closest is Of your Toronto May police is William Nylander at plus 900 and Leon Drysettles minus 360 So he's got how many goalie does he have right now? It'd be tough for anybody to catch him But what is for you? Yes, I think is second in the NHL per game Behind the current leader Zach Warren ski I'm on ice per game this behind. Yeah, who's in second Quinn Hughes?

great guess Most cider and also good play 30 minutes Yeah, I know a new addition to the game true dowdy in at number two playing an average of 25 and a half minutes per night I love it. And they've yet to score a goal in those games And the last thing to bring up quickly Calder Macklin Celebrini is the favorite at minus 160 Lane Hudson is the next closest at plus 180 Dustin Wolfe We just talked about there with Ryan Leslie plus 700 So those are your three favorites there for the Calder trophy and that was game time

We said about bet 365 visit the app latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at bet 365 must be 19 plus on terror only please play responsibly alright Okay, let's take a quick break and when we return we'll get into some NHL news and notes also Frank Sarah Valley's been kind enough to Drop by just to give us a little bit more in depth of what a rising salary cap means To maybe some unrestricted free agents. Do we get paid more? Mitch Marner, Rantonin, Sam Bennett, who signs first? The Rantonin ones, the cap's going 113 million.

You guys couldn't have pwned it up. We should have paid them. All right, we'll find out during the commercial break. You run upstairs into the office today, it's a rising NHL salary cap. What does that mean for us? Is there any extra room for us on the real kipper and born keep it us down back after these words on real kipper and born hey it's Matt Marchese and I'm Mike Fuda we're discussing the top stories of the

day across the NHL and the hockey world weekdays at noon it's the fan hockey show on sportsnet 590 the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. ["Bet 365 News Theme"] Welcome back in to the Real Kipper and Boran Show. It is a reminder, this hour of Real Kipper and Boran brought to you by Bet 365. Nick Kipper, Justin Boran, Sammy McKee, all right, waiting in the wings to explain it all to us.

Frank Ceravalli, Hockey Insider, President of Hockey Content, Daily Face Off. Welcome in, Frank, how are you, buddy? Doing pretty good, guys, how you doing? Good, okay, let's start with something that I don't think I've ever seen since the inception of the salary cap, and that's such a long projection

of what the salary cap would be for the next three years. And a very significant jump is what we saw from 95.5 to 104 to 27, 28 season of 113.5. So before we get into more specifics, just your overall thought of these numbers and the fact that they're really showing us their cards in the third year, were you surprised? No, I'm not surprised because this has been a change

in the system based on how it works. So if you remember back, you know, each year we'd have to wait until June to find out what the cap number would be for the following season. And the reason for that is the system was designed so that you basically took next year's revenue projection and produced a salary cap number based off of that. That's why it seemed to fluctuate so much. In this case, with the pandemic and the memorandum of understanding that existed after that, they said, well, let's slow things down.

And instead of projecting what next year's salary cap will be based on projected revenue, what we're going to do is back things up a little bit. They instituted what's called a two-year lag formula. And that's essentially what we're seeing here, which is why you're able to then project out a few years in advance because essentially what you're basing the cap number on three years from now is what revenue looks in present day as opposed to a guess. So that provides a lot of stability and certainty for teams moving forward and allows them to get out in front of this and also allows the league to really confidently in conjunction

with the players association, project what escrow withholding is going to be. So to provide some certainty there as well. So essentially what we've done is taken the system and slowed it down and delayed it a couple of years to provide more certainty, which I think in the end helps everyone. Frank, I know hockey fans want people like me to stop nerding it up with all the data. What does this tangibly mean for hockey fans? How will this change the way players are signed and moved around?

It just provides increased flexibility and spending options for a team like the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's breathing room that they haven't had for a long time. I mean, think about the way they did business heading into the pandemic. No one saw a pandemic coming. Had the cap continued to increase at an average of a 5% clip, I don't know that we're sweating over the contract sign for Austin Matthews and William Nylander and go down the list, Mitch Marner, the rest of the team. But things came to a screeching halt and they've had to adjust. I don't know that any team in the league has been probably more damaged by the pandemic and the resulting business on the cap than the Leafs. So they've had to adjust and figure things out.

And what it means moving forward is you're going to see players get paid massive sums of money. That's the new reality. It's a great time to be a free agent. It's a great time to be a player that. It's a great time to be a player that's gonna be hitting the market over these next few years. Because as mentioned with the system as it's designed, look, this year's $88 million cap is based on

a $5.4 billion revenue system. Well, that was a few years ago. Right now, this year's projected revenue is 6.7 billion. As this continues to increase, projected hit 7 billion and beyond, you're going to see this cap climb pretty significantly as we've seen in the numbers demonstrated today. So it's a great spot to be if you're an NHL player. I think the bigger question mark for fans and not necessarily from a team excitement and building standpoint is how are some of these teams going to be able to

afford these massive increases in the salary cap? That's what really needs to be determined because that part hasn't been figured out. All right. Then let me just pull in the number one complaint from our boy Sammy here is that the Leafs are a top team They're a top draw. They're one of the biggest revenue teams in the league throw in the rangers and a couple of big markets elsewhere And then they've got to go down to the level of these bottom feeders and now we're in a situation where the Leafs can't even

compete or other clubs in Canada can't compete because the state tax is so much better down there. But now, hey, the salary cap's going up and we can afford to maybe offset those tax saving dollars that you have, maybe it's a better playing field now for us again. That's the balance. Yeah, I think that's probably a really fair point to make and balance to try and strike.

The Leafs had been in a spot, for example, and the Montreal Canadiens where the playing field was leveled significantly around them because there was purely a limit to what they could spend. Now as that increases and teams are going to have to ask real budgetary questions, teams like Calgary and Winnipeg and Ottawa and others, that I just don't know that going from $88 million to a span of three years from now, $113.5, you convert that to Canadian dollars, you're spending based on

today's rate, $163 plus million in salary if you're capping out. How could those teams possibly raise ticket prices enough between now and then over these next three years to be able to justify that increased spend. I mean, what you're looking at is a salary cap floor. The minimum of what you must spend in a three-year period of time is going to be increasing to basically what the cap is now. And you're seeing teams like Calgary, $18 million under the cap this year. I'm telling you, this is a significant difference in economic reality that I know the NHL has been concerned about.

And it's going to be real interesting to see how this next CBA negotiation is handled because everything from revenue sharing on down probably needs to change to help benefit some of these teams in the Canadian landscape and even teams in the South and the US. Yeah, you might have a no state income tax advantage right now, but guess what? You're charging a lot less for tickets than they are somewhere else. So you're going to have to find a way to increase your revenue as well, which means everyone's praying for some major international TV dollars to come up in these next new deals because

that or adding a couple new teams to the mix there's only so many ways you can meaningfully increase revenue across the board to the point where you're not whacking fans in the wallet. JB, it's simple answer we just go back to an original Six League. Is that it? Six? We could do eight. Eight? Okay we're gonna go to A-Frank. So you know we had Mr. Betman on the show a week or two ago and I asked him about the

state tax thing and you know, is there any possibility of the league eventually looking at a salary cap that's pre-tax in some way to level the playing field? You know, he was skeptical that that was affecting decisions players were making. But I had people tell me that more than ever now with the flat cap, that's one of the things players were factoring in. Do you think that some of these economic realities will be addressed in the next CBA? I do not. For one, I did see the clip and I think he also mentioned the idea that if you have a really good accountant,

wink wink, that you can make up or level out some of the playing field. And two, I do think that Mike Greer, San Jose Sharks GM, he was asked about it this week and he said, one of the big differences is a lot of the teams that are no state income tax teams also just happen to be in really strong competitive winning cycles. That players go where they have a chance to win. And it just happens to be that in these competitive cycles, it was the Florida Panthers, the Tampa Bay Lightning for a period of time, the Nashville Predators were really good.

Obviously the Vegas Golden Knights have been outstanding. Same thing with the Dallas Stars. But rewind back to the last 10 to 15 years, who were some of the most competitive teams in the league? The Los Angeles Kings, the Chicago Blackhawks, the New York Rangers, all teams in heavily taxed metropolitan areas. The Flyers forever, the Toronto Maple Leafs, all these teams that have been ultra-popular Montreal Canadians, destinations for players.

I truly believe part of that is cyclical and part of it is there's ways around the tax code that a lot of these teams have found a way to level out and then you're going to get some really other creative options like Daneheim ducks. I don't think a lot of teams have talked about the contract or have delved into the contract that was signed by Frank Vecchiano, but they think the deferred solution is potentially one way around this no state income tax advantage that some other teams have. I think that's far-fetched because I think you'd have to get players to buy into that. But point being, there are workarounds.

Frank, the general feeling up until now with some of these UFAs, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you may have been one of them to say, let's just, many are waiting to see what the salary cap is and what kind of number they're, let's just, many are waiting to see what the salary cap is and what kind of number they're dealing with. Well, guess what? We know. We found out even three years from now. So what does that mean for the hottest names right now around UFA between Rantinen and Marner and Sam Bennett and Brock Besser? And what are you hearing? Who goes first? They're all getting traded to Carolina.

Who signs? Look, there's cases today that are a lot stronger than they were 48 hours ago before that memo went out. And I'm sure that there's a twinge of regret in the Colorado Avalanche front office because I think as much as there was talk about the salary cap increasing in such a meaningful way, and by the way, I also think that there's a chance in speaking to league and NHLPA sources today that the numbers that were presented today might actually be on the low end. I think there's a chance that we're players and teams are actually in for a surprise in a positive direction with those numbers

potentially even growing a little bit more by the time the summer hits. So I think there's some surprise, certainly from the handful of NHL GMs that I talked to today, they were blown away by how big some of these numbers are and they feel like, for once, for once now they don't have to sweat their collar isn't so tight. Um, trying to get some of these players signed and there's a whole other group of GMs around

the league that are thinking, Holy smokes, I've got a lot of spending to do just to be able to get to a level, uh, where the floor is three years from now we're talking, you know, some teams are gonna have to spend 60, 80 million dollars plus based on what they have on the books now that we're gonna see some spending in ways that we haven't before. And so if you're Miko Ranthenen, if you're Mitch Marner, if you're Connor McDavid, when Hughes even is up

in the third year of this projected number that's been out there now, you're licking your lips because you're gonna be well set up for life. There's a couple of middle class guys who are feeling pretty good about things too, I would imagine. Did I say- This is the return of the middle class is what we're gonna see. That's right. Before we had seen guys in that five, six, seven million dollar range, they've been getting squeezed hard the last few summers. Funny, the Leafs have been 11 million dollar guys and me, you know, just like whatever they could grab

basically. That's what Vegas has done. That's essentially what Florida has done. All those guys in the middle ground have been getting crushed and now they're going to cash in. Did I hear you say something about international TV deal? Well, just meaning both sides of the border. You've got the Canadian rights.

Obviously Rogers is in their exclusive negotiating window now And then at some point if that deal isn't signed exclusively You've got Amazon that could pop in and then in the US It's only a couple years before this ESPN and Turner deal is up that it's it's not long It's gonna be sometime within this projected range of cap years that you're going to see deals on both sides of the border come up for renewal. More money, more money. Yeah. That's the problem.

You got to find a way if your teams to lessen the burden and impact of ticket sales on the overall revenue pie. That's what your hope is. I heard that Gary's wish list might be up up towards a billion dollars a year on a new television deal But would love to see it. Right. Hey, you got to start somewhere right in the negotiations Where else do we want to go? We got one more for Frank or You got anything? I'm all good. I'm asked out on the salary cap.

Any updates on Vancouver kind of cool down a little bit with JT Miller? Yeah, I think what this three game winning streak has done is just turn the temperature down a little bit. I don't think it's changed the urgency or the need to ultimately address the problem, but what it's done is taken a little bit of the panic out of having to make a move today. I think everyone's on the same page in what the process should be. They're trying to find the best deal possible starting with JT Miller. I do not think it's out of the realm of possibility that both of those guys end up getting moved.

Doesn't necessarily have to be in season. I could certainly see a world in which JT Miller is moved this year and then in the summer before the no trade clause kicks in for Pedersen that you make that happen. But they've been in a spot where teams have been circling trying to make low ball offers and I don't think they have any interest in that. It's just that everyone knows that there's an eventuality here that must be processed Frank great stuff with the latest on the salary cap really appreciate your time on this Friday, man Thanks for doing this. Have a good weekend weekend guys. Okay Frank Cervély

president of hockey content daily face-off money money money money so just The overall health of 32 teams right so in three years 113 million dollars Salary floor of 80 some no, it's if it goes 113 then the floor is like 90 It's almost a hundred million Frank tweeter, right? I think I got it on the floor. I got on the line up here Yeah, so

upper limit in 2526 is 95 lower limit 70.6 26 27 upper limit 104 lower 76.9 20 28 upper 113.5 lower 83.9 million So it was from Frank million is almost the cap now Great. So to get it's awesome. It's still at the end of the day. It's still a ticket driven

That was a point by Frank. Okay, too big of a piece of the pie compared to other pro sports leagues. For sure. So for for teams to hit anywhere near that 113 in three years, you have to sell you have to sell two and a half $2.6 million worth of tickets every game. Every game. Here's my question. Who's doing that in the league? Oh, the Leagues.

One. Rangers. Two. Why are we not going through the league like this? Montreal. Three. What are you gonna do, Sam? There's 32 teams.

How long are we gonna sit here to get to 19? You're gonna start slowing down halfway through. I'm done. That's all I could get to. Um. Utah. It's gonna be very's all I could get to. Utah. It's gonna be very tough for teams in three years to come close to 113 salary caps.

These revenues that they're, these salary caps are based on current revenues. Like it's a leg formula, it's multiple years, it's whatever. The league must be currently taking in enough money to justify that to me You don't then wouldn't have to increase ticket sales to get to numbers. We're already showing that we're at like it doesn't feel Like you need to sell more to get to what they're projecting based on what we currently have I'm not I don't know how it splits a thought not I'm not sure how it splits. I'm not sure how it splits, but I just think it'll be tough for some teams to get to those

numbers. I don't know, maybe it's already there. Like to your point, maybe it's already there and they can just draw from it too. But I think you still got to go out and sell like why do we hear that? There's some teams and I don't know how Necessarily it works with balancing Whatever revenue sharing that they have but we still hear that some teams are are losing 20 or 30 million dollars a year yeah, that's a little perplexing for me too, because the income is shared based on all

the TV packages, right? National. National. Not local. Not regional. That's your money. But the league is done very well by that. And it does feel like...

It's okay. It's not even near to the US. But like the overall revenue of the league is up significantly, right? It's up to 6.7 billion from 5.4 or whatever it was very recently. So I don't know. It feels like the league is very healthy. And if you're a team that can't keep up as it keeps going in that direction, is it like a bush that sometimes you have to prune off the unhealthy branches

so the stronger ones can grow more? I don't know. Put a couple more jerseys, jersey ads on if you want. Well, maybe that's, see, that's the type of stuff they'll send that's a viable option. Start looking like the I don't like it, but that's the stuff they'll do. And start looking like Sparta Prague out there. They're going to sell the crease. Yeah.

They're going to sell, yeah. And Frank made up the point of a Canadian dollar right now to match a 113 US salary cap. You think that's getting better anytime soon? What number did he give? About 160? 163. 163 Canadian to max out in year three.

I would say as the dollar gets worse, that has to be of more appeal to American players to come play here. Like you can live, get paid in the US and live in Canada. You would think they would come out. I think it's going the opposite. I think Americans do not want to come up here and live. And I don't think their families are interested in cross-bordering if they can avoid it. I do think it's a limitation.

I don't think that's new necessarily, but... Can I just... Well, the pandemic really pissed them off. Can I touch on something that Frank said there, that the thing about Rantan, that really jumped out to me? Do you really think they wouldn't have any indication of this? No, because I had an indication. But like that...

They definitely did. That's what I mean. So, you know, he said that they regret it, but would they regret it because they didn't know the two big numbers, like over a hundred million, but they had to have known those were coming. You know, like we knew it was going up to 96, 97. Cause he just mentioned-

You've been living on another planet if you didn't know that the cap next year should be a hundred. Listen, it's not a hundred million next year. They've- Smoothed it. They've, they've, they've, they've stuffed it on purpose. It should be a hundred and 204 now. Yeah. And so Colorado would have known that they definitely would have had the money. Yes. So it's a greater, they chose not to keep them. They chose not to keep them. Is that potentially the first indication of an internal cap for a team?

I mean, okay, but like to me, it's a greater statement about the player. We love the player. I'm just wondering. I'm just asking questions. I'm still trying to figure out why the hell they're trying to be Korean. You can make up a number and say that's our cap.

You can say anything you want until, Kailh Makar goes, no thank you. No more than that. You go, oh. Just treat me like ranting it. Yeah. Not like, I didn't mean for under McKinnon. I meant for the team what they're willing to spend in terms of like what their team budget like if they have a budget that

they're gonna hit. Yeah, I think half the league's gonna have that. They're gonna have it. But Colorado's, you know, paying ranting an extra mill or two wouldn't have threatened. Yeah. Anyways. All right. Good week, boys. Like usual, we solved nothing. We've learned nothing. Well, we learned that the police are going to get spent a lot of money.

That's good. Yeah. The rest of Canada loves that. Our thanks to Ryan Leslie and Frank Ceravelli. Well, Doug McLean's in Vegas hanging out. At the Sphere. Who's he hanging out with? He's with his wife.

No, he went to go see a concert, Shania Twain, I think. Yeah, but he's with Jill. Well, I'm not saying that he dumped Jill to go out with Shania. Have a great weekend, everybody.