Real Kyper & Bourne - The Blues and Team Canada Plans with Doug Armstrong

Episode Date: November 27, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne welcome St. Louis Blues GM Doug Armstrong (8:45) to chat about why it was the right time to have a coaching change and bring in former Boston Bruins head coach Jim Montgomery, whether the change turns his focus at the trade deadline and his roster moving forward, plus what he's looking for in Team Canada's 4 Nations Face-Off roster. Then, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee look at the playoff picture at American Thanksgiving and discuss which teams are already locked in and which spots are up for grabs.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates. 

it's the national hour on the real kipper and born show we are live on sports at 650 in vancouver and sports at 960 in calgary this hour of of Real Kipper and Bourne is brought to you by Bet365, Nick Kipper, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. We're hoping to track down Doug Armstrong, president of hockey operations, and the guy that made a pretty significant move earlier with the hiring of Jim Montgomery. So we'll try to track him down.

I think there's some traveling situation there. He's going to say he's going to call around 10 after. Perfect. Perfect. In the meantime, did you write your article today? Is it out? It is out. Just published before we came to air.

General idea, just being that, it is American Thanksgiving tomorrow. And around that time of the year, every team in the NHL has played 20 games. And usually by this point of the year, we already have some idea who's going to be in the playoffs. Last year, three teams that were outside of the playoffs, even by one piddly little point, ended up in playoffs.

The year before, three teams got in do you know all the three teams edmonton nashville and no but i can look at my article which is online you're like me i can't remember what i had for breakfast today buddy it's tough stuff out here all right here we. Here we go. Here we go. Last few years was? Nope. I can't find it fast enough. Minnesota?

Yes. No. Last year was Islanders, Predators. Oh, yeah. Islanders. Me and I forgot the Islanders. Yeah, nice one. That's really embarrassing.

I completely forgot they were in the playoffs. Yeah. They weren't for long. Okay. So let's start with the east because right now it's the new york rangers and the buffalo sabers as you had just mentioned sitting in uh one two in the in the wild card yeah you know the the thing that's the thing that i look at over the past 20 games is how much panic i've seen out of certain clubs and two weeks ago three

weeks ago it seemed like we were talking about the buffalo sabers and whether or not kevin adams was going to survive or what they're looking to do they went to prague and everyone's like well there goes their year they're done they started they're done too right yeah on three so now guess what they're at least where they they were hoping to be yeah fringe playoff right and that's not to guarantee anybody anything but it's it's looking okay for them seven and three in their last 10 and one three in a row the last last 48 hours, I'm listening to the conversations of the New York Rangers. Their lead writer

over all these years, Larry Brooks, New York Post, you mentioned it the other day, blowed up. Literally a headline, it's time for the Rangers to blow up this questionable core or whatever the exact phrase was. 12-7-1. He wrote that before the last loss. It was 12 the exact phrase was. 12-7-1.

He wrote that before the last loss. It was 12-6-1. 12-6-1 in a wild card situation. And it's like, what is going on in the league that teams that actually are in the spot that we often talk about, American Thanksgiving, and it's still not good enough. Yeah.

Well, it's so funny. Sam, I think, retweeted someone's, the graphic of Leafs fans, 12-6-1, who are like, this is our year. We finally made it. And Rangers fans be like, 12-6-1. We need to trade everyone. Lames fans at 12-6-1 surprised to be there.

Totally depends on expectations and for the rangers they won the president's trophy last year year before whatever it was like very recently won a few yeah and so i think people went we were that good and it wasn't good enough this certainly isn't good enough they rely so heavily on shisterkin i think they can see the underlying it's not pretty under the hood i don't get uh so like you're having this conversation here are you like concerned about playoffs with them uh the rangers yeah i'm with a lot of people that believe that shisterkin has masked a lot of question marks in their lineup. But for them to turn around and just throw out the name Chris Kreider and Truba.

And Truba we knew in the past that in a perfect world they like to move him. I didn't know. Yeah. I've been in the dark. Really? On the Rangers't know. Yeah. I've been in the dark. Really? On the Rangers? Yeah. Yeah, they just, they, I think they asked him if he'd be willing to move

and he had a family situation with his wife, I think, that said that. He liked it there? Was that the situation? No. Okay. I won't ask any further than that. Professional. Okay.

Professional situation, I believe. But regardless, it's not like he has, to your point, I don't want to ask anything. Professional. Okay. Professional situation, I believe. But regardless, it's not like he has, to your point, you made it clear that he's got nothing that restricts him as a no move, but he can submit, I don't know, 10, 15 teams. But who's going to trade for a guy that still has another year at $8 million if he's sitting there and his heart's not in it? I guess, like like is it one of those things like if you watch the rangers all the time you're aware i know lately he's had some bad

turnovers i've seen ranger fans upset with him or whatever but like this is a pretty good hockey player is it not like throws big hits he's impactful in the game he's listen i and a real good guy too and popular in the room. And I'm with you. I don't know how many teams could take on his $8 million next year. But if you can convince the Rangers to eat, I don't know, two. He's playing that badly? They want to eat two to get rid of him? I don't know if he's playing that badly.

I'm not sure how good he truly was to match the eight million because he is susceptible to a few turnovers or some bad decisions but i don't know no one clip that's floating around with sabina jad behind the net going behind the net the truba and then truba turning it over going out from the slaughter one's point to that i saw i don't know i i guess you maybe don't watch the Rangers close enough, but, you know, if you're offering Jacob Trouba to a contender with, you know, some money retained, I think there might be some people lining up.

Here's the biggest issue I have with just throwing out Kreider and Trouba's name is that when was the last time that we saw two players like that get moved on a team that still thinks they can contend for a Stanley Cup? Like you have to be in sell mode. You have to be waving the white flag. When we see players of Kreider and Truba stature, it's because the dream is over to win the cup that year or they're going into a rebuild. Or to the point I think you're getting at, that they have no intention of actually trading these guys

and they're just giving them a little frivolity. A little bee's nest into the room yeah it i think it's a possibility of that but that's offensive at the end of the day it just doesn't matter because it's still the reality of you trading these guys and feeling like what is going to come back in return like we're still in the salary cap we're still got an 88 million dollar crunch here so who is trading for Kreider and Truba another contending team so you're going to contend and you're going to trade them to a contending team like there's no match well yeah. I would love for teams to do a talent for talent trade. Said, we think that we're weak here, you're strong there,

let's do a sort of swap of route. When was the last time we saw a trade, an in-season trade like that? Not that I can ever remember. So it's just not realistic, guys. Were Taylor Hall and Adam Larson on playoff teams at that time? I don't think so, guys. It's just not realistic. All right. Okay and adam larson on playoff teams at that time i don't think so guys it's just it's just not realistic all right okay joining us now doug armstrong president of hockey operations general manager of the st louis blues army thanks for joining us man how are you

i'm good i'm good how are you guys tonight we're good we're good uh talk of the town uh you know anywhere you go in the hockey world when you made a significant move in getting Jim Montgomery and just, you know, your overall thoughts on why it needed to happen and happen that quickly. Yeah, Kipper, this was more the ability to get what I think is an elite experience coach. As I told people when I woke up, I think it was last Tuesday morning, the furthest thing on my mind was having a coaching change.

And then Jim became available. And when I look at where we're at in our organizational part of a part, where we're at in our organization right now, we have a young team that's trying to learn how to get better. And we have young players coming in. And I know Monty has coached that in USHL, coached that in college hockey. And I know what he's done in the pro.

I thought that he is a special talent that could help bring us where we are today and take us where we want to go to tomorrow. And so we made that decision. As I said, it was no reflection on Drew or on where we are as a team this year. We know where we're at. We have, as I said, we're no reflection on Drew or on where we are as a team this year. We know where we're at. We have, as I said, we're trying to grow and get better.

But the opportunity to bring in someone like that was too much for us to not explore. And so when you're making a move like this, I know it makes sense both short-term and long-term for you. You think this is a special guy, but does part of you think, okay, this season is still salvageable, trying to make the move early enough to try to do something this year? No, as I said, it's hard to believe what our record or not. This was just the ability to get Jim Montgomery a coach. There's probably two or three coaches in the league

that you would consider doing this for, and I have Jim in that category. And, you know, waiting and, you know, let's say we were even in a better spot, I think I would have done the same thing just because that's my belief in Jim. And I don't think you could be looking for a coach at any given time, but I might go the rest of my career not finding someone available at the time when we needed a coach. So we just did what we thought was best long-term for the organization. It was a very difficult decision because Drew Bannister

was just getting his feet wet in this profession, and I thought he'd done a really good job for us last year and was learning this year with us. And that was really the hard part. We're talking to Doug Armstrong, president of Hockey Operations, general manager of the St. Louis Blues. Doug, when you, whether or not, you know,

Montgomery's behind your bench or not, you must have had some sort of vision on when you could truly feel like you can get a lineup in that can contend for a Stanley Cup. You still have guys under contract, significant guys like Pareko, like Falk. I know that, you know, Shen's still there. Does Jim Montgomery speed up the process for you in your mindset on when you can get this group back to contend? Yeah, we have experienced players.

We have younger players now that are starting to enter their prime and a Thomas and a Kairou. Then we have a player like Neighbors that's just not even quite even entering his prime yet, still young. And then, Kipper, next year we have five first-round picks over the last couple of years that are going to be turning pro. And so when you have, you know, the future, it is the future. Bringing Jim Montgomery in doesn't make an 18-, 19-, or 20-year-old

any more mature than they were the day before, but it does give us a coach as they mature, we have the right guy to lead the charge. Five first-round picks is such a monumental amount of new talent. So what does the window look like when you're building a plan like this to sort of, you know, Kip talks about getting back to contention. It's interesting to have them all sort of arrive at the same time. So is this like in two, three years you sort of see yourselves as,

all right, now we're kind of heading back into that conversation? Yeah, we're playing a team like Jersey tonight who's, you know, probably three, four years ahead of where we are now. And, yeah, when we, you know, this goes back to the year that we thought we were going to have a good year and had a bad year. And the only benefit of that poor year was we had a lot of desirable players on the last year of their contract so it was uh tarasenko and and ryan o'reilly uh barbachev uh charlie micola so we were able to turn those into into assets in in one year and then what we

tried to do was take a take a like a night from 2019 2018 to 2024 and and get as many guys in that draft grouping together uh so what we're not looking to do is add a first round pick in 26 or 27 what we want to do is jam as many guys in that same age group as we can and that's why we did that bro berg all the way deal this year two more players have fallen into that age bracket that we can grow with. And I think there's safety in numbers if we have that many players in that same age bracket that they can grow together. And how we explain this to our ownership

group is we try not and look at through rose-colored glasses. What we do is we take, you know, if you have a Stenberg, you know, pick a forward picked in the late 20s. You take all the forward picked in the late 20s and the actuary table when they'll play in their 11th game, 50th game and 100th game.

And we use 11 just because, you know, you have those 18, 19-year-olds that'll play nine and then get sent back down for the year. So we want to get really their first year in the league. And it shows when I expect these guys to play. And it's not, it's not, we all wish that we draft them. They played right away, but they don't, they take time. And we don't want to, you know, less Jackson, who, who I know you guys know has had a great, a great thing.

And it's stuck with me for 20 years as the NHL failed as many players as players failed the NHL, meaning putting them in bad situations not to succeed. And so what we want to do is bring these guys on at the pace that they're ready for and put them in when they're ready to work. Doug, you mentioned five first rounders. That's a lot of chips at the old trade poker table. You're going to...

Those aren't going anywhere, bud. I shouldn't say that. We would trade anything, but it's going to be in that same age bracket, if you know what I mean. We're not looking to use the future for today. We're realistic on where we're at. We believe we have a group that can get competitive. And I've been on the other side for a number of years

where I've used first-round picks for rental players and hope to win a championship or a first-round pick for a player you might have for that run and one more. We're not in that window now. All right, we got to switch gears a little bit, talk a little Team Canada here. You got your roster all done?

Let's hear it. I got mine all done. Doesn't mean that's the one that's going in, though. You're the boss. You're the boss. You're the boss. No, Don Sweeney, he's got his hands on the wheel on this one. So I'm helping Donnie as we go through it. But, no, we've had a lot of meetings.

The guys have done a lot of work. I think live between the management group, we've seen about 160 to 180 games live this year to give the players the best opportunity. And the coaches are now involved because what I learned under Steve Eisenman is that when you're picking, say, the last four or five guys on your roster, you don't want to jam a square peg into a round ball with a style of player. So we really need the coaches to understand why we have these players

slotted the way we have them. Make sure they see that same value in them because, as I said, you don't want to take a player that the coaches don't see the value you see in them. Yeah, I think that's a really great point. So when you're constructing this group, how much of it is like, all right, you're picking 13 forwards, here's the 13 best forwards, versus we need penalty killers,

we need guys in the final protecting a lead how much are you shopping for you know game situations versus just the best players yeah i i would say it's less like okay this guy can take a face off on the right hand side uh you know on a penalty kill or on a power play uh The elite players in the game play so many all situations, but what we're not doing is just going to the stat sheet this year and say give us the 13 highest scoring forwards, the 13 highest scoring defensemen, and we'll call that our team. We want to build a team.

Canada has a wealth of centermen. Some of those guys will slide over to the wings, and that's how it's been in the past. They're just using centermen as the main asset. Some of the teams I've been associated with have had six centermen on them because they can slide over. But we want to build a team, and we want to share our vision with the coaches to say, okay, this is the synergy, why we see this synergy,

how we see this player complementing that player and get their input on it. But yeah, we're building a team for sure. Not to give away trade secrets or name secrets here, Army, but like goaltending,

is it as difficult to kind of pin today than it has in years past? And is it? No. Is it? All the talks, a ton of our talk shows are around goaltending. I want to get your thoughts.

Yeah. In years past, it was, okay, well, the last couple events, who's going to back up Kerry? Yeah, that's going to back up Kerry, you know? Yeah, that's right. And before that, it was Luongo and Brodeur and then Patrick and Belfour. Right now, there's really no alpha male in Canada goaltending. And I sort of laugh. The Canadians and the Americans have the most difficult choices

for different reasons, you different reasons right now. But we're excited. And one of the stats that if you dig deep enough, you can always find something that you can sell is that there's, I think it's the last 10 Stanley Cups, it's either been a Canadian or a Russian goalie that's won it, and Russia's not in this tournament. So we'll see how we go.

Yeah, no, that's won it, and Russia's not in this tournament. So we'll see how we go. Yeah, no, that's great. And how much would personality come into the room, whether it's guys with experience, guys with leadership, or guys who've worked with the coaching staff? How much do you factor in off-ice stuff? Well, again, that's that synergy. Again, my experience is that the tournaments are so quick, especially this one.

This will be the fastest one we've ever had as far as getting there, and then it's less than two weeks. So you'd like to hit the synergy as quick as you can. I think in the Olympics and in other events, you can grow as a team. This event is just different. We're going to get there, and the players will be bringing their family guests with them. And so it's going to be hard to build that off-ice chemistry that you can build at the World Championship or the Olympics when you have time just with the guys.

But I think the coach, obviously, because he's a player from his own team that he knows and he trusts, obviously Point is one of our Canada Corps, as we call them. And so he understands that, and there'll be other players, but we're hoping they can build that synergy quick. And I think when you have someone like Sidney Crosby as your leader, everybody's very comfortable going to him for advice and following in behind him. And, you know, we're fortunate to have him.

One more for me before I let you go, and this kind of goes back to you hiring Jim Montgomery, and I think the quote that he used was, when something delicious falls on my plate, I eat. Yeah, I don't know where that one came from. It doesn't sound like me. Does that work in every situation? Because I think if I tried that on my wife, I'd get a slap in the head.

Yeah, I think when I tried that on my wife, I'd get a slap in the head. Yeah, I think when something just falls on your plate, you've got to look at it. I think you've got a little egotistical saying delicious. Or a T-bone. Yeah, right. Hey, Armie, thanks for doing this, man.

Guys, I always enjoy being on with you and take care, and we'll see you guys soon. Appreciate that. Good luck. President of Hockey Operations, General Manager, St. Louis Blues, and key decision maker for Team Canada. That's as good an interview as you'll ever hear from a general manager. I love listening to him talk hockey.

Yeah. You're pushing on him to be a leaf. There was that moment, you know, when there's, remember there was that rumor kind of was floated out there a couple of years ago and I was like, oh my God, really? That's the, is everyone going to replace Shanahan? That's the guy. The fascinating stuff to me is about the intention

for the rebuild and getting five guys in the same age group. Like there's such a clearly defined plan focus idea direction you know it's that's not willy-nilly no and so i've never how often you talk to a gm that probably has a team that could make the playoffs or be a fringe team and you say what do you think about this year and he goes ah no yeah this ain't it i know i know at the beginning of the uh the hour here we talked about the Rangers and the sense that they're, I don't know, ready to blow it up or they're a mess right now.

But if you go back, I don't know, five, six years ago, remember they decided that they were going to go in kind of a rebuild. The letter. The famous letter where they explained it through a letter i don't know how long that was but 2018 but it was like it was a very small window but and then they started competing again and it's i see my point is that like some team some teams really dodged the hey missing the playoffs for the next five, seven years like Buffalo and Edmonton, Detroit. Kings did it for a while.

Right? It's like you don't – I think Doug Armstrong is heading in that direction where he's going to be do they make the playoffs or do they don't make the playoffs, but they're not going to be not contending for the next six years i think that's another feather in his cap then if you think it's an under promise and over deliver situation where just prepare everyone that this might take some time and if it doesn't great i think they'd be willing in that case you gotta know what you're doing and you gotta stock assets so those little trades that you don't think twice about like so-and-so gone for a third

and barbachev and all that you know a second a third a fourth over over a few years you can start accumulating some some nice pieces and that's the key to getting yourself back in the race as quick as possible but you got on low too you got to just make those hard decisions well one thing he's done that i've said for years that i love is even in the race as quick as possible. But you got on low too. You got to just make those hard decisions. Well, one thing he's done that I've said for years that I love is even in the years they were contending when they had expiring contracts, they traded Paul Stastny a year that they had a chance. Like they were a competitive team. And then they did the same with Shattenkirk, I believe, the year they won the cup. They traded Shattenkirk, I think, at the deadline.

Yeah. You know, like, because they were like, all right, we're going to lose an asset for nothing. And one thing Armstrong can say he's done is they don't lose assets for nothing. Which is what's happened in Toronto for years, is losing assets for nothing. So can we talk about the Team Canada part of that conversation? Yes, that was obviously the one that would get people more than the St. Louis Blues piece. He wouldn't even let you finish in the goaltending. I know.

Although, boys, there was breadcrumbs there. Stanley Cup breadcrumbs. Yeah, I mean, it's going to be aiden hill and jordan bennington i think so too uh i love logan thompson yeah i loved the uh it just used to be about who backed up carrie yeah i was like oh that hit my heart i was like oh yeah we used to have the guy and now it just doesn't exist anymore but yeah, yeah, we have the guy forever. You know, some stuff there about building the team. Get ready for some Sam Bennett or Tom Wilson or one of those guys. And this is the warm-up band to the Olympics. Yeah. And that's the way they're going to treat it.

So anybody on this team, I think, I don't know where sid falls into this right you assume that sid in two years the olympics high level 2026 right maybe there's a there's a line there right for sure there's not if sid is healthy and playing hockey in the national hockey league he will be in italy at the olympics he almost 40? I don't care. He's on the team. No question. No questions asked. I'll say it right now. You're that guy until he's got real weak

numbers or something. Then you're not that guy. When he's lighting it up for the Toronto Maple Leafs boys, I will be totally fine with him on Team Canada. With what is going down in Pittsburgh right now, let's just hope he doesn't quit by the end of the year. That's true.

Okay? He's still playing by the formation's face. That's a great point. But, you know, Sam made the point that, like, you know, the off-ice stuff being important and team-building stuff, I am curious how much this is we got to win, which it probably should be, versus we want to get Conor

Bedard in here we want to get uh you know Alex Lafreniere in here or you know guys who may be looking at the Olympics two years from now as some of our bigger names are they prioritizing this year or two years from now I think they'll just let's just win this one I can tell you worry about that one when I can tell you what matters way more that one when it comes. I can tell you what matters way more. Yeah. The Olympics is not even close. But I'm saying you don't need to. Once you get into these games and once it's like on Saturday night at the Bell Center,

Canada versus USA, I'm going to be like, oh, I'm not going to watch. And like, you know, you're not picking Conor Bedard over, is it Sam Bennett for you or one of these guys? No shot. You're not doing that. You're picking. I would much rather have Sam Bennett than Conor Bedard. Even though you know the Olympics is going to be Bedard and not Bennett.

Yes. It's just too hard to. Brandon Hagel is a lock. It's really hard. Brandon Hagel is so good. It's hard to sit there and go, listen, you don't deserve to be here, but we really believe you're going to be great in two years. Oh, yeah.

No. Someone's sitting at home going, like, what are we doing here? What are we doing? Is this a training camp or is this a competition? we really believe you're going to be great in two years. Oh, yeah. No, that's not happening. Someone sitting at home going like, what are we doing here? What are we doing? Is this a training camp or is this a competition? Yeah. This is not a, yeah, you're supposed to put your best foot forward here. There's going to be a lot of Tampa Bay Lightning players involved

in this tournament if you think about it. You know, potential of Point, Sorelli potentially, Hagel potentially, and then obviously victor headman is going to be on team sweden a lot of guys playing not no cooch huh no russia's not in there so right yeah you know russia right but uh you want to save game time for after the break let's do it now hold on let me get my sheet here let her rip all right oh that's a bad sound sorry everybody okay you get him talking team canada and he lights up i love it it's game time canada boys it's just we haven't had it my for since 2016 conor mcdavid might have a hundred points in four games it's been since they beat team europe

in the final was the last best on best rotting a like prodding a lion in a cage and he's just waiting to go. I got excited for Olympic hockey with guys from whoever. OAR? Yeah. Anyways, it's game time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds to find out why it's ever ordinary at Bet365. It's 19 plus Ontario only.

Please play responsibly. So, ton of games tonight because tomorrow is American Thanksgiving. The best holiday of the year. And the NHL and NBA get out of the way for the National Football League, which, you know, is the right move for sure. I'll look at tonight the Toronto Maple Leafs, a rare, rare chance to get the Toronto Maple Leafs as a pretty big underdog. They are plus 130 in Florida taking on the Panthers.

The Panthers are a minus 155 favorite in that game. I think for good reason. If you like betting on the Leafs, you want to have some value, it's there. I'm not sure I would advise. I mean, it is. You never get them. Like, they're a public team.

They're always a big favorite. You never, ever get them at plus money. So if you want to bet on them at plus money, it's a rare opportunity for them. The Vancouver Canucks are playing on the second half of back to back in pittsburgh tonight taking on sydney crosby and the penguins the vancouver canucks are minus 120 favorites on the second half of back to back pittsburgh plus 100 there i do the penguins in that one no no i would not do that and a good game later on the winnipeg jets are in la good game later on, the Winnipeg Jets are in LA to take on the Kings.

The Winnipeg Jets and LA Kings are both minus 110 on both sides of that. Should be a good matchup there. And Vegas as well in Colorado to take on the Avalanche. Plus 140 for the Vegas Golden Knights. Seems like a good number considering that eight goals that go in every game against Carolina. There'll probably be some goals in that game,

so maybe look at the overall. What do we have, 30 teams playing tonight? I think. Is that right? I think. Oh, this is like cramming. Loaded. So, yeah.

And tomorrow, the Bears and the Lions are the big game, the early game. And it's rare. You know, I'm really happy for the people of Detroit because they always have this game. And I forget the history of it, but they always get the first game and they lose every, every Thanksgiving. It was like, well,

it's a routine. Go watch the Lions get roughed up. And now they're minus five 50 favorites on the money line against the Chicago bears tomorrow. They are eight, nine and a half point favorites against the Chicago bears. And they'll probably smoke them and everybody be happy on Thanksgiving. One of my go-to takes, if you have followed me on Twitter for a long time,

is that, like, in the NBA, there's more pride in going up to defend a dunk and failing than being the guys who are just like, oh, let's get out of the way and let them dunk. I hate that. It's funny watching the other sports league get out of the way of the NFL. They're just like, we're not even going to try to contest this. This is your day. This is the NFL's day.

And then how about the NFL doing it to the NBA? Like Christmas was the NBA day. Yeah. NFL's like, well. NFL's going up like Mutombo. You sure about that? I might take this one too. I might want that.

The top 100 shows on television in the United States, 97 belong to the NFL. NFL rules. But guess what? The NFL rules. 97. Your wives? NFL rocks. It's great. It's a the NFL. NFL rules. But guess what? The NFL rules. Your wives? NFL rocks. It's great. It's a great league. Really, really good. Where's our show? That's game time. Presented by

Bet365. Visit the app to find out why it's never ordinary. Bet365, must be 19+. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Alright, we'll take a quick break and when we return, we'll talk a little bit more about your article on sportsnet.ca. Sure. It's American Thanksgiving,

and we'll talk a little bit of the Western Conference and what it means on who's in and who's out. That, when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. It's Matt Marchese. And I'm Mike Futa. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world weekdays at noon. It's the Fan Hockey Show on Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. That's Kipper, that's Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee as we bring it in. This hour, Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet365 as we go around the league. How about a shout-out for Kevin Lankanen last night?

Oh, my God. Absolutely. I'm watching it. He's good on his head. So we got our group tax day, and it's like, you know, I don't hear from you for a few hours, and I'm like, I look at it, and it's like and you're like, oh, my God. Yeah.

And I'm like, there's still 10 minutes to go. Yeah. There's no way, like, he can sustain this for 10 more minutes, and they shut down everything. Telling you. A great effort. Steve Valiquette told us about this guy. He said he's the next guy in a position to pop.

So before we talk more about the Canucks, I just wanted to finish the conversation we were having The next guy in a position to pop. So before we talk more about the Canucks, I just wanted to finish the conversation we were having before Doug Armstrong called in about the Eastern Conference. Okay. Right? And the standings. All right. Okay.

So if you look at the – if I read these teams off to you, who do you think would be out of the playoff picture at season's end? Rangers? I'm skipping the Sabres because I think the Sabres are the obvious but like outside of the, like is it going to change? Rangers or anything? Yes. Washington? See that one I'm not sold on. I think I still

need to see more. They have plus 29 goal differential. They have 29 points in 21 games, 14-6-1. Yeah, they have like the best winning percentage in the East outside one team. I think that blue line is going to hold up. So you think so in in not sure in not sold carolina yeah yeah new jersey oh yeah yes tampa yep florida yeah toronto yeah so there's one spot yeah one spot or two spots i guess because you think washington's out i know i think there are maybe but probably one

spot i don't know how you can look at the goal differential. You can look at the center-right position for the Boston Bruins and go, they're getting in. Minus 21 goal differential, which is just better than the Montreal Canadiens. The Eastern Conference reeks at the bottom. The top half of the league, it's like there's the haves and the have-nots here.

Oh, this is helpful to have posted. Thank you. Look at this. Like it's like, there's the haves and the have-nots here. Oh, this is helpful to have posted. Thank you. Look at this. Like it's all, there's six really good teams that are the three that are in the, at the top of the Atlantic and the Metropolitan. And then this Rangers are a good-ish team.

And then everyone else is just no good. Sabres are okay. Islanders, once again, Barzal back there a little better. Prior to the salary cap, did we have like eight or nine teams going no hope at the playoffs? After 20 games, I have an 82-game season.

To me, it's not that there's so many teams written off. It's that there's 20 teams that are all right that like you know if they stayed healthy and got good goaltending they might be in if they have an injury or get average goaltending they might be out like from you know that list you just showed from the ottawa senators all the way up to the buffalo sabers there's eight teams they're all kind of fine the red wings aren't terrible the islanders aren't terrible the bruins it's not okay i don't know it's they're all the same team it's yeah whether they're table uh terrible or not it's in the eye of the holder but i'm just saying that

like okay detroit's holding up for playoff spot this year they're brutal brutal okay ottawa they they think that they're gonna make the playoffs this year they're brutal brutal okay ottawa they they think that they're gonna make the playoffs this year we're humoring them still i i believe you're right we're letting them think that pittsburgh pittsburgh's done montreal no hope done right the flyers you think the flyer fans think they're not a chance like playoff aspirations manager doesn't have playoff so it just names you like six teams where their market goes after 20 games and they got 60 to go okay i'm paying attention for the rest of the year they're incentivized to lose the rest of the way and i was told that the salary cap creates parity yeah so we have to have this cap you can't have teams like the Maple Leafs or the Rangers

spending all this money because then the bottom half, it'll suck. It'll just be a bunch of bad teams not spending money. If you have 32 teams, they'll all be good. I mean, you're going to have bad teams. And now Utah, St. Louis, Anaheim, San Jose, Nashville, Chicago, it's not one fan base is gone. Hey, we're playing in April. But the West is, I guess there's a couple more open spots.

No, there's not. I guess one. Right? The Flames are the only spot there. The Kings are also maybe gettable. But the Oilers are in. So you assume that the Oilers and the Flames will switch spots. I do.

Very much so. Right. And then that's it. I got Seattle and St. Louis as maybes. Maybes. And then the rest. And everybody else is playing 60 exhibition games. Don't get hurt.

I will say. Save it for golf season, boys. Duggar Sharks, Preds, Hawks out. Utah is the only team that I said isn't gonna get in that's like i don't know they could do something weird and get hot maybe but i watch that utah team and it's like ah you know what do you they're gonna be good when they grow up but everyone says that about like all their teams all the prospects that are young it's like is detroit are we sure that they're gonna get there ever no we watch buffalo lots're going to get there ever? No. We watched Buffalo.

Lots of teams never get there. The Ducks are on their second version of it. Never got there. Yes. Like, some of these teams just, they might, you have a whole core go through. And I'm going to say this part quietly. Ottawa kind of needs to get it figured out, or I'm going to be worried about this iteration of the rebuild.

So, what we're getting at here is that the cap needs to go up bad. It is going up. At least the Sens want to win now. They're going to spend with a new owner. For sure. But it needs to happen because this league, we used to talk about the Premier League, like the super teams,

is never more obvious than it is right now that there is what seven teams that can win the cup so you got dallas new jersey vegas carolina tampa bay for the least in there maybe toronto oh my god anyway i just but there's some teams that may not be able to afford the cap going up. Well, see, this is the part I'm interested to see. It's going to start separating the haves and the have-nots again. Like what owners are going to say it's $110 million cap. I was good to spend $88. $110 is $22 more, quick math.

And for Canadian teams, $1.40. Oh, yeah. Yeah, $1.40. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's spendy. So you've got to sell a lot of Canadian popcorn to pay a lot of U.S. salaries. Good thing it's $12 down at the rink. So if you find that'll help. So if it goes to $100. Is it going to help us anything?

It's $140 million Canadian salary cap. But how many? Hey, we've got a problem here. But I mean, the Leafs, hey, Rogers, way to go. The Leafs are, they have an owner that can afford it and they're going to be fine. You know, the Canadian's

going to be fine. Calgary is going to be okay. Winnipeg is going to be okay. These are individual owners. It's expensive. I don't know. I mean, I'm not even saying anything I'm asking. Yeah. Do you think if you're Ann Lauer and you just bought Ottawa, you just bought Ottawa, you got to build a new rink, and the cap's going up like 30 shmill in a few years.

You're like, what just happened? How much am I spending? What did I commit to do? Cash call. Yeah. Like me when I bought a house. Bought a house, and they're like, ah, the plumbing needs to go. It's like, I can't. But I just bought the house bought a house and they're like i have the plumbing needs to go it's

like i can't but i just bought the house i don't have any money i guess we'll just build an outhouse wait you have to keep spending money after you spend the money this is terrible i just think that this league desperately needs a defibrillator like to shake up like there's just been so many there's just so many crappy teams i guess maybe that's with all leagues there's crappy teams in every league maybe it's just a sports thing but it just feels like in the well there just so many crappy teams. I guess maybe that's with all leagues. There's crappy teams in every league. Maybe it's just a sports thing, but it just feels like in the league. There's so many teams. The crappy teams are so crappy because they can't afford to. Your Leafs can pick them apart like hyenas on a carcass.

Perfect. We don't have a ton of high-end players in our league. Well, we don't have enough to cover 32 squads. You're right. Yeah. You're right. And that's a bit of an issue here. I also think, Kip,

the level of your average NHL player is so high now that to be better than that is really hard. But there's only a few of them that can get to that in the first place. We've got, I don't know, we've got 32 teams, and we've got, I don't know, we've got 32 teams, and we've got, I don't know, 900 players. But yet, you can only find three or four of them

that are like $10 million players today on each team. No, it's funny, because you took all the talented hockey players and put them in a row, and then you just kind of draw a line, go 700 players, those are NHL players players and then it goes 800 and 900 you're definitely bringing in yeah some more guys like me i could have used that about 15 years ago a few more teams in the league would have helped but but they're interchangeable and they'll move in and out but your stars the ones that they sell the ones that are on covers and sitting on Colby's couch. Those players should be paid even more.

Yeah. Like way more. Like they should be making 20. Yeah, but they're not. No. On top of that, they got to sell the game, right? So when they have those media circuits. Take your 20, sell the game.

How about taking your 20 and you sell the game you are the game that's why you're getting 20 but when you when sid's going door to door you know giving season tickets away what a guy nice of them they shouldn't have to do any promotion for the league it's not his job his job is to play a hockey player and play yeah that's not true it's just be really nice and it helps it would be amazing if you could just be a good athlete and not be asked to do more there's a lot of people who i think are don't love the limelight who would love that i'm seeing uh you don't see raptors doing osmos commercials they're selling pbjs because they are every scotty barnes commercial is him doing a Subway.

Grady Dick's got Gillette razors. But I'm getting paid for that. He's not getting me for free. Yeah, that's true. Like, what do you think? But here's the thing. You can't lump Sid in with other entities. Like, Sid is just a different thing. He's on a different level. Like, he's just the type of guy

that would do that. And Sid ain't doing Tim Hortons for the goodness of his heart. Yeah, that's true.'s true you know like he's making a couple shekels i'm sure yeah i'm sure tim's paying him decent you know old timmy hoes it's not all missionary work these guys have worked their asses off the last i think 10 years to sell the game and actually i'll give all of you some credit too those guys have they've given their time they've given their i give him a ton of credit 8.7 he's probably with this contract the most underpaid athlete ever go go ask my homes to go knock on the door give season tickets away see what kind of reaction you'll get right probably wouldn't do it but he doesn't have to 97 of the 100 most watched shows in the u.s yeah it's true how about uh

nice and love for jake de brusque last night scores the winner going back to boston involved it was a great reaction of the guys when they solidified the win last night on the bench loved it that's because he probably had 10 g's on the board for the boys yeah oh yeah regardless how much money he had on the board you could tell how emotional and genuine that win meant to him and we've always talked about him clearly seen it here in Toronto with him being leaf killer in those playoff games

he is a big time elevate his game kind of guy in bigger games and you could tell that that one was a really big one to him and I thought he was flying around I thought he was awesome and I know there's stretches in his game that he'd like to be better in over his career. But we've watched him as a Boston Bruin in those playoff series.

He's a gamer. In the playoffs, he's a gamer. You know what the hardest thing to do, I think, in professional sports is? I heard Michael Nylander interviewed about Willie being, you know, the Leafs, and he said his bad game has gotten better. His worst level, when he's not great, has come up. Yeah. And I think that's, we're all golfers.

Would love for your worst day to not be so bad. Not be 102 at your golf course. Yeah, you know, like, and that's, I think, for a lot of these guys, for DeBrusque is a great example of someone, if you can have your bad day be a bit better you're so much more valuable and it's just and us on the radio we could learn from that too yeah for sure your worst be bad even a stretch over 60 minutes it's just one bad hole yeah it's just the one bad hole just the 13 i can't recover off of a nine yeah i can't get by that nine so no it you know i think he'll be a good player for them.

Canucks, they get everybody back and whatever JT's dealing with, and they get him back in the lineup, get Demko going. They're a good team, man. Particularly in a soft division. They are. So where are you guys in the West overall with the wild card spot right now? Because I thought for sure we'd be looking at a colorado avalanche team that would be sitting right up there with

winnipeg so it's not happening excuse my ignorance here nachush can not come back yeah he's back he is back okay but but land Kog is still not back. Landis Kog is not back. He's been skating and it's just a hope and a prayer that he may play again. But everything I hear

is long shot. Because I remember earlier in the year it felt like they were saying it's going to happen soon, like kind of november december i think there's a chance that he can try it yeah i think there is a possibility that he can try it but i don't know if he can put himself even in a position uh like hock and paw whereas dallas said

no the knee's no good okay we're not re-signing him. Walk out the door. And the Leafs said, we'll take a chance. But I don't know even if he is at that level of a hog and paw. Can I tell you what the biggest issue with the Colorado Avalanche is? Goal tending. Yeah, this is from Jay Fresh on Twitter, that the Colorado Avalanche have an 85.5 team save percentage.

The last time a team had a save percentage that bad in a full season was the 10, 70, and 4 Ottawa Senators in 92-93. They have got to address it. They get zero saves. Their goal tending is awful. And they're 12 and 10. Yeah, because they have really great players. And, you know.

That to me is you got to make a trade. I don't care what you do. You can't keep running these guys out there. They're not getting better. Like this was an issue for them last year. What have you got in the minors? Trade for Dennis Hildeby. It's crazy that they beat Hellebuck last year with that goaltending.

Crazy. And once upon a time, Gorgiev was considered maybe the better goalie. Better. At one time, they thought it was an even race. One game in February.

That's a nice spot to be in when you're a guy like Gorgiev and you've played nine games and got a good reputation. At some point, so you got an amazing roster with great players you can't keep this to me is trade season early trade season firing coach firing season trade season we've decided who's good and who isn't not this show but the standings have yeah you know at this point if you are underachieving where you want to be it, it's time. Give me your top three teams that need a goalie right now. Boy, Ottawa is struggling. No, you can't see Ottawa.

Not happening. They got new Corpus Allo. They're fine. So, obviously, Colorado at the top of the list. Carolina, too. Carolina in desperate need based on injury, really. Yeah. Oh, the Oilers. And the. Yeah. Oh, the Oilers.

I think the Oilers have to be a team in the mix right now and looking not aggressive. I mean, they're another team that's doing pretty well getting just zero saves. And I retweeted it somewhere along the way. You know our earlier conversation about Florida? Their defense got better. Their goaltending got worse.

Sorry, their defense got worse, so their goaltending got worse. You know what I'm trying to say. And the same thing. Skinner's worse because that blue line's worse. Time to take action if you're in Edmonton. I mean, they'll make playoffs even if they don't take action, but they should.

Okay, 15 games on tap tonight's go boys find yours enjoy it and then meet us again here tomorrow on the real kipper and born show our thanks to luke fox in our leaf edition hour and then doug armstrong president of hockey operations have a great night everybody if you get a chance download us give us a rating and review we'd love to hear from you have a safe night everybody if you get a chance download us give us a rating and review we'd love to hear from you have a safe night everybody