Real Kyper & Bourne - The Cardiac Cup Final + Marner Done in Toronto

Episode Date: June 13, 2025

Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Edmonton Oilers' 5-4 comeback win over the Florida Panthers in Game 4 to tie up the Stanley Cup Final. The Athletic's Shayna Goldman (8:30) shares her take on Game 4 and digs in on the Oilers' resilience, the Panthers' collapse, why Edmonton needs to stick with Calvin Pickard for Game 5, the importance of blueline production and Sam Bennett's open-market value. Then, Justin and Sam react to reports that Mitch Marner will not return to Toronto next season and project where he might land in free agency. They close out the week by answering your questions on the text line!The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome into Real Kipper and Bourne. I am Justin Bourne. I'm joined today by my boy Sammy McKee sitting in for Nick Kiprios. How you doing Sammy? I'm well. How are you my friend? I'm doing good. I'm doing good. We are still live on Sportsnet. Sportsnet 590 The Fans, Sportsnet 916 Calgary, Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, and Sportsnet Plus, joined today by technical directors Jake Schultz and Derek Brandeo. Yes.

Alright. Got that part right. Oh, and as always, this hour of Real Caprin Born is brought to you by Bet365. And right off the top, I'm going to do all the dirty work. Text us. Yes, please. 59590. The second half of the show. Yes. Sammy and I are gonna take your texts. It can be on the Stanley Cup final if you like. It can be on Sammy's hockey team of choice. It could be on golf. US Open's on right now. JJ Spawn minus five. Okay. Made 18 of 19 putts inside 20 feet yesterday. You wanna talk about that? That's really good.

Yes. But more than that. Yeah. What a hockey game. What a game. What a hockey game. I just... I can't... I'm having a hard time with this. What do you mean you're having a hard time? Because I think a lot of Leaf fans listen to the show. Yeah. And...

It is such an electric final. Yeah, and these are two unbelievable teams but there are like two it's very like directly connected to Leaf fandom and like okay just because it's always fun when you co-host because then I don't even know what angle we've got off the top I just don't I Want to root for the Oilers? Okay, okay. I really do but last night I went to the Kendrick Lamar concert in Toronto fantastic. How was that? Watch him the fall. I watched the game my phone the entire time Like I was it was a good concert, but I was watching my the game the entire time. I Was the game was so good. I'm like I I love love this game I'm gonna watch this instead but I went out I saw the time

goal mm-hmm right before like what 20 seconds left and then I went to a local establishment with my wife met up with some friends and I went there and I watched the overtime at a packed Toronto bar yeah boy and you know it's it's an electric atmosphere in there there's some live band karaoke going on people are fired up the drinks are flowing whatever and Leon Dreisaitl scores and I gotta tell you man the bar bar erupted and I was wearing my leaf bucket and you know I I was disgusted yeah I was a little bit upset you know I know the Canada's team like we don't

want a team from Florida wait let's so it's like I know the Canada's team like we don't want a team from Florida Wait, so it's like I want the Oilers to win I think but like whatever result happens in this not it just disgusts me I guess it's it's a really but outside of that one of the best hockey games and if you're an oiler fan and if the Oilers go on to win this series Bor. That game will be talked about for generations. Yeah, we're showing the dry settle winner the the mustard he gets on a one hand attempted pass. I know it's a mess and we're going to get into that on the goaltending side of it

and all that. But it is a pretty darn good play he tries to make. I will say I have been and this is going back about a decade on team. You shouldn't root for another team just because it's Canada. You know, like if you're a Sens fan, you don't want the Leafs to win. Just because the couple come back to Canada, but we kind of crossed the threshold where it's embarrassing. It is.

It's fair, you know, like part of the reason I'm doing it, you know, like we, you know, whether it's late night talk shows or whatever, just like the jokes about like, you know, whether it's late night talk shows or whatever, just like the jokes about like, you know, we always have the Stanley Cup, the Americans joking about having the cup year after year. Yeah, it's, it's been enough for me to be, see, I have the other side of it too, where I grew up an Islanders fan and you know, the first team that breaks the Islanders dynasty is the Oilers. You know, they, they meet them twice in the final history between the history between the two franchises.

And so I was kind of grew up was like, I'm supposed to hate the Rangers and the Oilers. That's kind of the way it is. I've softened on the Oilers for sure. And I think, you know, I've come to grips with the fact that ready for it to come back. So I was cheering for him last night. But a rower out of Toronto bar, like it was like, it was a big pop. I was like oh god yeah but what I will say fans love hearing that by the other fans love you

are an Oilers fan yeah and like you just get if you win the cup this year which feels a lot more possible right this second with the momentum coming off that win I know Paul Maurice always says that the momentum between games doesn't exist, blah, blah, blah. But if you win the Cup and you have that game four in sunrise as like the turning point of the series where you're down three nothing, it just felt like the Cup, like it felt like the Florida Panthers had that period and they were gonna win the Stanley Cup.

Put on the throat And they let him get out it just was over like they were listless They had nothing apparently Corey Perry stands up in the room leadership stands up in the room they come together all this stuff That will be talked about for the rest of all of our lives that yeah to get Mcdavid's first cop if they can win it like to lead them on the way and it wasn't even him that did it No, he had one point. He was a dash one in the game. It wasn't even him It's Darnell nurse scoring a goal for you right Nugent Hopkins who comes through and of course dry saddle who comes through but you know, I just

That's an amazing amazing hockey game and this series has been phenomenal So far I gotta tell you when it was three nothing, Florida and going into that period Pickard starts the second period I I thought about betting Edmonton. I hear you say a lot of people, it was over, it's Florida's whatever. The defining characteristic of this Oilers team is they're not dead. And just when everyone writes them off, just when you think they're done. Now I will say, so I wasn't shocked that they got back into it. The one thing that bothers me is the Perry stood up in the room, fixed it, sort of like narrative that came out after the game.

We gotta be better guys. Well, it's like, that's right. We can't have anyone freak out out there. How many times? We gotta keep our composure. How many times did guys deliver the compelling message? And then the other two's goalie just plays great. Or you lose like four more going in.

You know, like it's like last night you have the darn on their school which pinpoint shot or whatever. But Bobrovsky's flat in his net rather than square to the shot. No good. It goes up under him. You get a one hander and OT that goes in like absolutely. I'm sure Perry and all those boys but like the Oilers are trying.

Yeah, they weren't not trying. No, I know prior to that. So yeah, I great observation. I'm just not shocked that this Oilers team trying. They weren't not trying prior to that. So, yeah. Great observation. I'm just not shocked that this Oilers team does it. But I do think it's noteworthy that it wasn't McDavid and that it did come from other places. And where it comes from with this Oilers team, that decor to me, A, they seem to be impervious to the we're done thing.

They just keep playing the same way regardless Mm-hmm, and they can make plays like Bouchard can score wallman hit rips a 1t nurse can do you get that harder? I know like how fun was that shot so cathartic. Yeah, and that to me and you brought it You know the the Leafs into the question It's like you have to get some offense from your back end. Yeah, they get nurse they get wallman Bouchard's a top point getter in the playoffs for them? They they generate from there. So when you look into the oil and saying who else is gonna do it often It's those guys. I hundred percent and you mentioned like the no quit thing. There was

Three different moments in that game where you could look back on and be like heartbreaking moments in the loss Yeah going down three nothing in the first period and then I'll point to the save that Bobrovsky made to keep it full to keep it on Perry was that to keep it three three I think it was to keep it three three and woman ends up scoring But that the toe save that he makes on Perry and then giving up a tying goal the Sam Reinhart with what 20 seconds left It's like yeah, those are all little moments were like mental hurdles that you get over and you still find a way to go in there I just that was a sort of team of destiny kind of win where it's like you don't you're not supposed to get that one and now that they did going home like

can you imagine what that building is gonna be like on Saturday night grease stop crowd apparently what all of Canada's gonna be like we will find out more yeah the bar in Toronto will definitely be electric again. Oh my God. All right. Well, we're joined now by Shana Goldman, national hockey writer of the athletic and the too many men podcasts. Shana, how you doing? I'm great. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Thanks for joining us. We're just obviously talking about game four last night. Love to get your takeaways on what you saw out of that game. That was, that was great theater. Oh my gosh. joining us. We're just obviously talking about game four last night. Love to get your takeaways on what you saw out of that game. That was great theater. Oh my God. It was a banger. I was very

upset in that first period. And it's funny, like I tweeted like, Oh, that's game set match. And it was funny, like as the Oilers started coming back, people are like trying to dunk on me. I'm like, I'll dunk on myself. No one's going to be happier than me that we have a game, right? Because I want competitive hockey. I want it to be exciting. I think the conference finals were pretty awful. Just give me drama. And oh my god, did we get it? Like, how could you be upset with three out of four games in the series? Yeah, it's been a really incredible, just feels like the rivalry has really built to this point now where I guess game

three was a bit greasy with that kind Of stuff, but now we're good feels from here on out Game five and on is when it really feels like that's our starts stuff starts to clean up and the stakes are so high What are you looking for? From the Oilers after that comeback like do you think this is one where they just roll now or do you think the Panthers can? push back I'm sure the Panthers are gonna push back. I mean this is one where they just roll now? Or do you think the Panthers can push back? I'm sure the Panthers are going to push back. I mean, it's what they do, right? I would be very surprised if the Oilers went too straight, but I think the Oilers are going to know you

cannot come into the game unglued like you did in game three. And it's funny, you look around and see everybody talking about it. And some people are saying unhinged, but like the consensus word is unglued. And you couldn't find a better word to describe what the oilers look like in game three from puck drop, right? Like it was the worst case scenario so I think they know they need to keep their composure and continue on with business, right? You go from the Western Conference Final and Connor McDavid gets interviewed, they go what's different about this team? He felt like they were more on business, they're not as emotional. Well you couldn't tell that in game three so the fact that they found that again like that to me is what i'm looking to see them be again here forward because here's where the nerves could set in right you're

in a better position than you were last year because you're not down 3-0 you come in you win a game on at home a game on the road you're tied everything's great wonderful it's a new best of three so you're already feeling better about that, but you have to like maintain that and not get nervous now because it's so much closer than it was at this point last year. The one thing that is strange is they're going to head into game five back in Edmonton and we don't even know what goalie they're going to start. And they're both healthy.

You know, a very tough situation to be in right now. What do you think they're going to do and what do you think they should do? I think they tough situation to be in right now. What do you think they're going to do and what do you think they should do? I think they're going to go with Pickard. And yeah, I do. I think you start him until he tells you otherwise, right? Because had he not gotten hurt, he could have still been the starter at this point. Like literally, he knows.

It's a really unique situation because if you go back through past playoffs, and I know it's the rise of two goalie situations in the regular season but once the playoffs hit generally speaking you have a starter and a backup and that's it and sometimes when you see a team it's oh it's one guy's getting 60% of the starts they're only getting through one or two rounds if they're rotating their goaltenders like that like they're not doing that in the Stanley Cup final so it makes it even more unique we don't have past precedent but we have the Oilers precedent from this year right we have what they've done in the postseason

so far. And I think Pickard gave them a nice boost. I still would not be a hundred percent in that decision. I think he made some excellent saves last night. I also think he comes very far out of the blue paint that I was like biting my nails watching him play last night. But I think he's the move for now. And then you keep Stewart Skinner there if you need him. It's not like it's gonna be a long layoff, right? Versus what it was. Like you're not missing two rounds of play

if you throw him back in. It'll be a matter of a couple days. Yeah, I mean he is. He's seven and oh in the playoffs. Like at some point where you mentioned it, it ain't pretty. Like there are lots of moments where he feels like he's way over committed But he battles in there. I agree with you

I think I think it's a no-brainer to go back to him and it feels like they responded to him so well and The up-and-down nature of Stewart Skinner's game. It's just it's scary at this point So I think you definitely have to go back to pick your picker guy Yeah, I mean to be honest I just you know They want it to be Skinner right like every time they have the chance to give him the chance they they go back to him and but I Don't know. I think I'm a picker guy at this point. You're still on the site you would like you would still for me It's obvious. Well, I would not even consider going back to go back and watch that Matthew Kachuk scoring chance last night

Where two Oilers players there's Nugent Hopkins and was it Echolme? I forget who the defender was. Pickard's out in left field. I don't even know where he is. And Matthew Kachuk is right there. There's so much time for him to get back and he commits even further out before even attempting and there's two skaters trying to defend it and they make a great shot block, great save.

But I think you can watch that over and over again and go, you know, do we want to play with fire? Like I understand it's a harder decision than the 7-0. It's like, you know, I often think like, you know, play road hockey and all the kids throw their sticks in the middle. If you threw all the players in the middle and had the GMs pick one at a time,

they'd almost all take Skinner before Pickard, right? So are we? I don't know. I don't know. You don't know? And fair enough, maybe not. After this series, you you know after this playoff run that could be here's a here's a hot take Maybe neither of them are very good. Well, that's kind of what's crazy How about we get some team defense that commitment to team defense that made him so good against Vegas and so good against Dallas

Where is that right because we're seeing the Panthers get everybody around the board so they can grind them out and then they just drive right to the middle of the ice and everybody's as frantic as it gets. So if we could get like, I don't know, 6% better defense, maybe the Coltenders would be better. I'm not even asking for a miracle at this point. Just play a little better. Yeah, I'm just going to get your thoughts on the Oilers. D-Cork is going into the postseason. I don't think many people would have been like, that's an obvious strength of theirs. You know, Echolme wasn't involved, but these like offensive D-Men, D-Men who can move the puck and make plays have really been great for them. Klingberg, I know he didn't play last night, but he's had to had a good playoff.

And, you know, so has Wallman and Nurse and Bouchard. Like they've got a lot of puck movers. Is that something that other teams can look at and say, maybe we need to lean more on those dudes? Yeah, I think so. I think it's always good to have. You want to have offense from the blue line. I mean, even the Panthers are getting it this postseason.

And I don't think anybody expected guys like Mikko to be jumping up and looking like Bobby Orr, right? Like, who's to say that was going to happen? But I definitely think it's a good thing to have, because you want to have versatility on it I think the biggest problem for the oilers decore when you look at earlier this season is it was so stringent right like they had To play these pairs this was it these were the only only combinations that work and they have to be deployed in this such Way so when I come got hurt, you know now you have a problem

I think you add Jake Wolman in there and it just like unlocks this entire group, right? Because he could jump up and play with Bouchard. We know he he's good he's played with nurse and he's been fine he could play on the second pair he can be on the third pair and play with the guy like John Klingberg he can be a source of offense from the third third pair which i think is a huge weapon because you look at the bottom six of their lineup and sometimes the bottom six of most lineups right maybe for the Panthers this is just a fourth line problem because the third line is so good you might not have a ton of good puck movers in the bottom six right so if you're playing with those third pair defensive

men, there's a chance there's no puck moving from that bottom duo either. So if you're going to have that spark, like a Jake Wallman who's really good at breaking out the puck, it's going to make life a lot easier and help transport playing to the offensive zone where those grinders can kind of get to work and stay in the offensive zone so the next line can come out over the boards and be in a position to succeed. Yeah, I'm really impressed with Jake Wallman and he's been a bit of a revelation for me because I mean, I'm not gonna lie to you, I wasn't grinding the San Jose Shark tape as much as maybe you guys were, I'm not sure.

But you know, the, I was more familiar with his gritties than I was with like his actual game. But speaking of gritty, like his grittiness in general and just his ability to get in the other team's face plus his offensive upside and just seems like a real glue guy for the Oilers. That was an excellent pickup by Bowman, a really good guy to identify and he's changed their whole decor like you said Shane. I've been really impressed with him. Yeah and he was really good in Detroit.

I don't understand that move. Stevie couldn't use him? That's a weird one. Nope. That's a weird one. No For nothing yeah, right Okay, take them for now Here's a second round pick for you to take him off our hands and we're actually not gonna do anything to follow like I don't Care what move you had lined up that was still gonna be the wrong decision, right? And then you see the Sharks get a first rounder and rightfully so because he was so good in San Jose all year

And he was so good offensively the difference between San Jose and Edmonton is he's Obviously in a different situation has more talented players around him But the other part of it is that he's not gonna get those same minutes, right when I call him was hurt Maybe sure but he's not gonna get power play one in Edmonton and he's not gonna get you know top deployments either and that's fine Right, like if you have if you have someone that could be a first pair of defensemen on a bad team and on your team, he's a third pair of defensemen, like you're doing something right. Like your depth is deep enough for that to happen. It's like the same with Brad Marchand, right?

In Boston, he's a top line guy. In Florida, he's a third line guy. Look at him cook. Yeah. Yeah. What a difference. Well, and that's why you worry about signing Bennett Marchand to some of these big numbers, you know, because if they don't have that protection, are they going to be that valuable?

We've heard people say numbers like $12 million for Sam Bennett. I don't know where you sit on that, Shana, but what is his value going to be when this Con Smythe run is over? I don't think we're even going to have this conversation because I don't think he's leaving Florida, right? He's going to sign a team-friendly deal, and everyone's going to go,

oh, it's the taxes and I'm going to lose my mind. Not everybody, that's me. No, no, no, no, I get it. I think it's more the lifestyle, the organization, the position you are with your chances to win. I think as a player, you look at it, if I'm in Sam Bennett's position, it's,

oh, I could get $12 million to go play on the Ducks, or Florida, where I know management will do everything and anything to win, right, and have me be a part of that winning situation, I'm going to go there, be in the sun, have a family there, be by the beach, and sure, the extra money is great and wonderful, but you're taking a pay cut for more reasons than just the taxes, right? I know everyone's talking about him like 12 million, 11 million, that's great and wonderful. If you were to hit the market, he's going to get a ton

because he's a playoff player, he has skill, he has grit, he has bite, he has everything and more, and the center market is absolutely horrible. So all of that puts him in this perfect position to cash in, I just don't think it's happening. Yeah, considering the, like the what's out there, how good he's been in the playoffs. This is one of the greatest contract years in sports history. Maybe like truly like you look back, I'm sure you could come up with a bunch of examples of ones,

but just for all the stuff that you laid out there with the lack of players available, what teams are in his cap space at the same time like the caps going up what everyone's sort of looking for for the playoffy type guy having was it the NHL record and road goals in a playoff run I'm not sure you could ever have a better contract here than Sam Bennett's having it's unbelievable yeah I mean we see this all the time right like people want players it's so interesting to me because you look at like the team Peter DeBoer of it right and everyone's gonna talk about his game stack of an record and that he goes to the conference finals all the time

but it doesn't matter I guess to anybody in the narratives that he doesn't have rings but for players you get paid if you have rings you have to be good in the playoffs and you have to have a ring and Sam Bennett has both of them so add that to the entire situation you outlined and yeah it's a perfect storm for him yeah are we Rich. Very rich man. Are we good to turn? Well I was just wondering where were you going to go? No go ahead.

I was just asking about Burbrowski. Yeah. Where if so if I'm an Oilers fan I'm very happy to be 2-2 after the way that game started and the way he's looked would give me a little bit of hope. But I also know that his whole thing is that he can just tighten up at the drop of that. Like for no reason, he just turns into an unbelievable, unbeatable force after feeling like he is a complete sieve, and it's totally unquantifiable. But if I was a Oilers fan,

that's what would be worrying me going into these next couple games that he hasn't really stole one yet. And he always feels like he steals one in these series, and there's three left, and you need to win two of them. So that's for me, like I know he hasn't been great, but I'd be a little bit worried if I'm an Oilers fan that he's gonna really lock in in one of these. Oh, absolutely, and look back to game three, that first period, like the Oilers had some chances there,

and Bobrovsky was the difference. I thought he was incredible, and he's a reason why the Panthers were in the position that they were to start running away with the score. Like it's different seeing you're not going to calculate a stolen win when it's you know a 6-1 game because then you need a GSX that's over five. You're not getting that so it's a little bit tougher. But I think he gives his team a chance to win on most nights. I would expect him to keep doing that moving forward and you know it's always interesting a series go deeper.

I think it's going to be more challenging to steal a win because yes He's studying the shooters their tendencies And I'm sure they've done a ton of scouting plus he has last year's experience behind them And you know you just have to play with the hand that you're being dealt but on the other hand It's a little bit different from saying I'm going to scout 12 forward six Defensemen as Sergey Borovsky to try to assume what everybody's going to do especially when one of those players is Connor McDavid And he's gonna do whatever he wants and more Versus the entire Oilers team scouting him and his tendencies right you see two goals last night the The first two goals for the Oilers beat him up high and they could go okay

Maybe that's a weakness for us to exploit rate and there's a long history of Sergey Barovsky being hot and cold in the playoffs So there's all of that information you can try to work with that being said as hard as it's gonna be for him to steal A game later in the series, I won't be surprised if we get one or two low scoring ones because everyone seems to tighten up at that point. Everyone's holding their stick a little tighter. If it's game six, game seven. But then again, we also saw what the Panthers did

in game seven and around two. That's what I was just gonna say. I was like, it's gonna be like, oh, you don't see a lot of high scoring games. Oh, wait. I'm not gonna say that because they at's gonna be like oh, you don't see a lot of high-scoring games Oh wait, yeah I'm not gonna say that cuz they least literally gave up an unconverted touchdown to them in the game seven They played around too. So yeah, what's what's you know, interesting is you mentioned like Bob? Tends to steal a game somewhere along the way, but we also really haven't had the Connor McDavid game yet

Maybe I don't know if you think we have I mean he said we have three assists Good he's been very good. He's been very good But it still feels like he is someone who could be Have a night looming to last one on on this series for last year a quick ufa question or two Evander Kane last night, you know penalties gets draw, you know benched for a chunk of period dropped down to the fourth line He feels like a guy they need, you know, there's someone to play and be at his best. You know, what are your thoughts on the way he's played and these guys who have to try to walk this Sam Bennett line but can't quite do it as well as Sam Bennett? Yeah, he is not the guy to do it. He never has been and I'm not sure he's ever going

to be at this point. You know, it's like, can you teach it teach an old dog new tricks? And I'm not sure um he has the tricks to be a disciplined player, right? I feel like that that's a major problem. He was rightfully dropped to the fourth line. So if that's not the wake-up call, I don't know what will be because you can't afford to put him out there, especially in dry sidles minutes, right? Like you're playing with one of the guys you need to just cook in the offensive zone. Look at what he does last night when, you know, after game three, he gets no shot attempts and last night he has the game winning goal to tie up the series.

You don't want it that you're going, okay, they're in the offensive zone and you have no idea what's gonna happen. You don't have that like trustworthy foundation. So it's gonna be really interesting to see how he can find that line that I feel like he's struggled with for some time. If he can, that's a huge,

huge deal for the Oilers, especially with Zach Hyman hurt, right? If Zach Hyman was healthy, I don't think this conversation would matter as much because you go, well, that could make up for Ryan Eugene Hopkins not being 100%, and then you could throw Perry or Brown in there and Pod Colson and make it all work. But without Hyman, like, you need guys to play in the top six. And I know there were some question marks about someone like Pod Colson playing in the top six after And I know there were some questions, Marks, about someone like Pod Coles and playing in the top six after he had a rough game three, but you see why he did, right?

Like he can be a dog without, you know, you watch him and you're like, he's a dog out there. That's what everyone needs in the playoffs, right? Like he works so hard every shift. So you have that if you're the Oilers, you could throw him in the top six and see he's gonna rebound. Kane didn't after a bad game three. I don't know how much leeway you give him in game five if he takes a single offensive zone penalty or a single first period

Penalty, I don't know how you give a minute. Yeah scary. Yeah scary as a coach especially with that Florida power play It's basically why Codger got traded from here. You had a guy You just felt like you couldn't trust and yeah and I know that's regrettable in a bad Yeah I never think about that at all. All right. Well, let's let's do a little bit more a quick ufa talk before we let you go Right before we came on air and I know you want to talk about this more a little bit after Andy Strickland tweeted that Mitch Marner will not come back to Toronto Everyone here is like what do you think's gonna happen?

I don't know. Do you have some inclination, what you believe will happen or what should happen? I could see him going somewhere like Vegas. And I could see it being like Vegas throws Patrangelo's cap hit on LTIR and maybe they move out Hague to clear out a little extra money. Maybe they keep Hague if they LTIR PatrangeloR, Petrangelo, and just figure it out from there.

I won't be surprised. Vegas could use the help on the wings. I think we saw them a little bit exposed against the Oilers when guys like Hurdle weren't scoring. And you saw guys like Eichel were not at their offensive best because he had a sands full with McDavid. I think he did a good job in that matchup, but you need everybody else to score a little bit more. And I just think their winger depth has really taken a hit over the years to build up their centers and their defense.

That would be fun, and I think it would be a heel turn of sorts, because you know, like the Vegas Gold Knights are kind of the bad guys in a way. But I think the true heel turn, which I'm begging for, I've been wanting to see from Mitch Marner for some time. I just, you know, I love the puppies on his skates and all of that and more, but everyone's so mean to him. So mean to him when he seems like such a nice guy

that I would like, I need him to like throw in a leather jacket and be like, all right, that's it. I'm going somewhere else in the division. Like I'm going to Ottawa, I'm going to Detroit and you're gonna have to see a ton of me and you're gonna have to face me in the playoffs and I will be the one scoring the game-winning goal. That, I mean...

Get you out of here. Like, that's the drama I'm craving personally. I, I... I get, yeah, you might get what you're looking for there. The one, the one that I think if you were, if we're going heel turn angle, I mean, the Bruins have a ton of gas face. Oh, that's ultimate, I think. Unless you went to the Habs, that might be...

You have too long till they're gonna be like a playoff power team. Oh, that's ultimate. I think unless you want to the Habs, that might be too long till they're going to be like a playoff. Yeah, you're right. Mitch Marner and Posh knock and Mackleboy will be able to do a lot, but I feel like Canadians around those. Oh my God. I do think where he ends up will be very instructive of what his like priorities are because like if he ends up with Vegas or Dallas or somewhere where he signs for like a decent number where a team that wants to win. But if he ends up with Vegas or a Dallas or somewhere where he signs for like a decent number where a team That's wants to win But if he ends up in like Chicago or you know, Utah or San Jose or something like that just a money thing I like Utah. I do like Utah because I think it's more than a money thing

I think that they have actual potential like there's no chance he's going to Has them near the top of the list It's he's gonna do something that people think sounds cool like like Vegas sounds cool LA is a cool place to live. Yeah, like I don't think he's just gonna like slug it out and salt like listen I love Salt Lake City fine, but hey personal A little bit there. That's our boy Shops have a great time then he's not going keel though

I feel like if he's like five grand in the soda shops with like a million pounds of sugar like Feels like it might actually fit. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you very much for your time today We look forward to maybe we'll have you on again after free agency after Mitch makes his decision we can chat about it then Love it. Yep. Sounds good. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I appreciate it That's Shana Goldman national high-key hockey writer for the athletic and of the two many men podcast Yeah, so she did make a good point about Boboski there about how in that game three It wasn't a laffer until it was and Boboski did make some good saves in that to kind of keep that game closed So maybe yet maybe that was his quote-unquote steal, but it still feels like nah even that game seven last year

He was really solid. I don't know. I just, if I'm an Oilers fan, that's what kinda keeps me up at night a little bit. The thing is, the Oilers score on everyone. Like Vegas, LA, Dallas, great defensive teams. They light them up. Florida's no different, their goaltender is gettable. Yeah, it's, I don't know. So, can I ask you, Justin,

as a, in our fourth year of doing this show together? How does the tweet that Andy Strickland sent today about Mitch Marner leaving our boy Strik knows a lot of people and he's very, very trustworthy in this situation. How does that tweet make you feel? Honest, a trust tree. How it makes me feel? Oh, thank God. Relieved.

Oh, thank God. Yeah, how it makes me feel. Oh, thank God relief. Oh, thank God Yeah, like I just you know Maybe that's selfish because we talk about the team every single day and I just felt like we can't do the same thing anymore Yeah, but also that sentiment fans feel we can't do the same thing anymore Yeah, and so I don't know if they're gonna be better. In fact, I'd suggest they probably won't be there's a solid chance They're more they're worse, right? But at least There'll be some fresh blood and maybe some new energy You know something and not that Mitch had bad energy and not that he wasn't you know, whatever It's just it needed to be something different. so great. They have some opportunity to damage.

Emotional damage. They have some opportunity to do something now, and it feels like they've been stuck spinning their tires, and it feels like they got traction and they're out now. Yeah, how does it make you feel as a lifelong Lease fan watching the Core Four era come to an end? Today, today's day came to the end. We got an official tweet, he's not coming back.

Sad. If we're trusting Andy Strickland and on this show, we do. I do. Listen, I just think it's I think it's just gone about as poorly as having as poorly as it could having four guys with this much talent on the only worst outcome was a bunch of injuries. Yes. Like this is a to her to see it through or something.

This was the worst outcome. Like I've said to you a million times, like if you simulate this 100 times, this is a bottom 10 outcome. Oh, no doubt. Of how this is played out. And you know, you just, 100 point homegrown, selky sort of nominee, winger.

Like that. Prime age. And the fact that like. Universally not wanted back. Yeah, it's insane, man. Like it's actually insane. And I'm not like. I know it's that universal.

I'm not trying to be the guy that usually sits in this chair and like defend it, like say, I just, I can't believe that it's this that everyone feels the contracts are so bad just cuz like there's so many no trades and everyone had been so you know I don't say overpaid because they've earned their money they've been good players but it just really worst-case scenario to itself here and I think LA that's my honest opinion that's your guess yeah I think I mean there's so much smoke around Vegas all everybody that comes with Vegas

Yeah, you know, I don't think Vegas is gonna be that good. No way I just think they're on the other side of the mountain Age wise that they're starting Mark stones backs made of but they're gonna die. I feel like Marner's also taped together Gorilla glue. I do think that Marner is sort of this maybe the start of like them Trying to flip things over to you. Well, he's no one could use him more they have lacked offense Yeah, someone like him is perfect to get them to the playoffs and then losing five to the Oilers Oh, I do think Martin is gonna have some big playoff run. No, I do I truly believe that I disagree too good I disagree. He's not gonna go. What's some big playoff run. No, I do. I truly believe that. I disagree. He's too good. I disagree He's not gonna go full. What's a big playoff run like a like a dry sidle. Yeah

No way like a leads playoff in scoring. No way. Yeah. No way. No way. Market June 13th at some point Marner leads the playoff. I just I can't see it If it doesn't if it didn't happen here playing with the players that he has getting the matchups that he's gotten Like maybe he goes over the West and he gets a softer first round Yeah matchup as opposed to having played the Bruins or the lightning or whatever that is Maybe that's maybe that's how it works out He hitched his wagon to Matthews who has been hurt in playoffs quite often Yeah, once he throws his hooks into I don't know. It's McKinnon or I know I said LA, but I don't know that.

Yeah. But it depends what stars he has with him, what the matchups are. The matchups here have been tough. Maybe it's Pasternak that he plays with. Wow. I've had a heck of a thought. Do we have game time on the other side? Sure.

Okay. All right. We're going to take a quick break. When you come back, we'll do game time. And please text us at 59590 and we're going to read those and talk about them So we don't have to talk about Taylor Swift. We'll see you in a minute The best blue Jays show out there period Blair and Barker be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

["Game Time," by The Bats plays.] Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born. We're gonna jump right into game time. I think, Sammy, are we not? Yes, sir. It's game time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary. At Bet365, must be 19 plus on turn only

Please play responsibly. So Game five goes tomorrow night Okay Can I get on my schedule maker soapbox here? Yeah sure something. It's you know pointless, but sure why Three what the three days off when you're traveling trans at like yeah the long Travel sure and like you know, they're traveling a game like why, it's a long travel sure and like, you know They're traveling a game. Like why not have it be the three days off. It's got to be building stuff It has but like you can't make a priority for the Stanley Cup finals

I have no idea but it is it is going on a long time anyway and oddly No, but like I don't mind it taking a long time. It's just which is make it make Anyways, it's great to have a Saturday night hockey night in Canada game five of the Stanley Cup what else could you want in the sports net it will be on sports net I heard that yeah the Oilers are favorites in game five they are minus 120 the Florida Panthers are plus 100 so not a ton of difference that has Florida been decent on the road in the playoffs I think they've really been decent on the road I think they have this guy on their team Sam Bennett that may have an NHL record. Let's get 11 road goals

I think it's more than that. He's got 14 total so Pretty darn good. I was just gonna go here plus money on that team on the roads pretty good and in that in that thought process Sam Bennett give me to score hit for him to score the first goal of the game tomorrow night Plus 1200 whoo So if you want if you if you want him at any time It's still a decent number at plus 210 for a guy that scored a ton of big

Road playoff goals already this year for the Panthers but give me Sam Bennett for the first goal the game tomorrow at plus 210 for a guy that scored a ton of big road playoff goals already this year for the Panthers but give me Sam Bennett to score the first goal of the game tomorrow at plus 1200 and quickly was just gonna check in on the US Open here. We have been promised a bit of carnage and it feels like we're kind of starting to get it here the leaders at minus four not a ton of people under par the favorite right now is Sam Burns, who is tied for the, oh no, he's one back. He is plus 425, JJ Spahn plus 475. And Scottie Scheffler, where is he on the leaderboard?

He is still only 10 to one. I think he's plus four and the leader's at minus four. So, Bet 365 still has a ton of faith that he's gonna go out there and put a 66 up there and get himself right back into the I mean Look at the names on the leaderboards. You need JJ spawn and yeah Martin Lawrence is there Here so yeah, I've been loving watching the gulf as soon as it goes in the grass it completely disappears So it's been a lot of fun

Anyways, that was game time is it about bet 365 is the app for the stars and find out why is ever ordinary at bet 365 must be 19 plus on terror only please play responsibly and also remind people that the hour is also sponsored by bet he's brought to you by bet 365 so uh this is a text I got well hold on before you want to go right to text you do want to do a couple things Oh, yeah, no, it's text is about one of our things all right Is that I was so excited to watch the game last night I actually turned it off as soon as I saw Taylor Swift on the screen Yeah

But he said by the way, my name is Salty and you guys do a great job. So thanks. Do you still say grow up? 100%. I would say that to my best friends. How you let her affect your enjoyment of the hockey game? The world's biggest pop star is at the game and this upsets you. Honestly, like this is so embarrassing.

But when I saw that she was there I was like She's like she likes her little thing She's watching our thing totally, you know, it's a big deal to have them there I'm sorry Corny if the Panthers are gonna win two games would like them to be there for one of the W's so they could have sure felt The home crowd but they did get the big pop with 19 seconds left So they got to feel some pop energy. Mike from Bowmanville says, I think the scheduling is to accommodate Taylor Swift's schedule.

Hey, listen, if we got to do that sort of thing, you know, I think the most crushing thing as a hockey fan is when they have like the All-Star game and they're like, ah, who'd they get for the musical acts? And they're like, oh, they went long on the list. They made a lot of ass before they got to. It's actually you too tribute band so you know having the large celebrities in attendance it's a good thing okay got a question for attention uh love the show boys have a great weekend what's Borny's tattoo oh yeah this is a it's a related. It's by sobriety medallion.

Just as the date my sober date and FTGW feed the good wolf. It's kind of my man. It's badass bro. Book out for more. Okay. With this is from Chris from Mount Pearl. We're going leaves now with all the cast face the least will have with Marner leaving. What moves would you like them to make this summer? Do you bring JT back and at what number? So I'm of the belief that if you're going to make these bigger changes, make the bigger changes. Like don't do the Tavares thing. Don't do the Marner thing. You know, you've

got Nylander, Matthews, Knies, you pretty good foundation of three great forwards, a lot of money to play with. Yeah. I don't know. You'll get Brad Marshand. Is that how much more expensive is he than John Tavares? And you get someone who's been through these wars and won and has that temperament that I think you prefer.

I, if they're going to find a way to figure out to spend some of this money, I would love them to be able to find a veteran puck moving defenseman Yeah, so okay. Hold on. This is what you're totally honest at me because Chris Crider got traded Yes, yeah, Crider's not the answer for the least for me. He's another six foot four guy He doesn't fight to the Rangers thing I don't know like they're bringing in like the Doctor like we'd love to lose in the second that core that like famously hated each other and like kind of blew up In the city like the biggest market. Let's bring them here. Yeah, that's a weird one anyways continue, but no so this is the idea

so Kreider is a Legitimate NHL player who can still help a team that's out there. Yeah for the Leafs together You don't have to look at the ufa list so that's I like that idea to me You know Shayana alluded to it But she said they're gonna put Petrangelo on LTI are yeah Is he like I know he missed the four nations for his ailment or whatever it was But like would they make him available as I'm yeah Like are they if they're looking to free up cap space like maybe the lease aren't they don't have a ton of assets to trade

From but maybe it's not as much about the assets as the willingness to take on a full contract. He's a veteran guy from the area. Just they don't, they need somebody who can snap it back there. Yeah, because I watched so many playoff games where like the outlet was either Tana picking it up off the board and like chopping it over to McCabe and like off the glass and they they're effective at it. Yeah, and they were a good shutdown pair. But give me a guy that can just snap one up there was supposed to be Riley and he hasn't done it. So that from to answer your question, whoever that was, I forget the number, whoever it was that texted

me, I would love to see them make a move for a veterinary good puck moving defenseman. You know what is interesting? I like what you're saying about, you know, sometimes teams just want to get off from a contract, like, and here's one that I'll throw at you, would Pittsburgh just be like, you take Carlson off our hands, here's a second rounder with him, take the contract, you know, is... I've got a long standing personal rivalry with Eric Carlson, and I really don't think, I mean, he's, he would help in a lot of ways But hurt you in a lot of like watching Seth Jones just got moved in the past season like are there players like that?

Looking for a fresh start somewhere because you're not finding it in ufa, right? It's just not available So, okay, here we go let's say if Pickard plays an extra game if Edmonton wins does that mark the end of Skinner's time there Tim from Hamilton has to just has to like if you Hey, I know he's had like good stretches or whatever, but like he has not you can't put him in Calvin Pickard You're choosing them over a myth Listen Pickard could play on Saturday night. They could lose.

They could put Stu Skinner back in for game six and game seven, win the cup, and they'd still be looking for somebody. I really do think at some point, with that core of guys, you can't keep putting it together with popsicle sticks. Like, Pickard, I mean, how many teams has he played for? keep like you can't keep putting it together with popsicle sticks like you're Pickered I mean how many teams has he played for he was in the a-hole last year right or this year potentially yeah recently It's just it's insane to me that this is the solution and they've the equally is insane thing Is that they are tied to two I know imagine if they had a

Above average guy stole a game here there And Stu's done that he's had a few good ones here and there like he really has but it's just Even if they win the cup and Stu Skinner plays a game and these next three I Still think you're looking for somebody else. Yeah It is one of the most baffling things like when I do analysis of this series And of this oilers team, they almost don't make sense It's like okay They don't trust the goalie whose numbers are consistently bad and often have to go to the backup

You know all regular season you'd have said any of these defensemen make a lot of mistakes bouchard does nurse does clingberg does you know? Go down their lineup to their depth, guys. They don't make mistakes anymore on D, which is baffling. The goal tenings not crushed them. They get some depth plays like that goal last night, the Wallman goal. Yanmarx on the four check and pokes it free and makes a great goal like Pod Kolzin. Pod Kolzin? Yes. Jake Skinner. Oh, Jake Skinner. Jeff Skinner. Jeff Skinner almost scored last night.

Yeah. It's just they got these guys all around it that they shouldn't be having this success. Hey, Hyman's not in the series. Kane's down to the fourth line. You know, and yet these guys can... They baffle me. So give Knobluck some credit too. Give the superstars a lot of credit.

Hey boys, how about a trade to get Jason Robertson out of Dallas John Muskoka? Okay Is that every time with the Toronto Maple Leafs? I would imagine from John and Muskoka's of leading to the Toronto Maple Leafs I know would they want Nick Robertson in return. I Don't think I want Bigger Nick. Well,'d take it over current Nick. I would. I would, but I just... Didn't Jason score 50?

He did score 50. I think he scored 50. Yeah. But I don't think he's a... I think, here's what I'll say about him. I think he would fit right in with the playoffs. God, is that this the perfect... You nailed it.

I think he'd fit right in. He is six foot three, 201 pounds. He gets about 20 PIMS a year He had a 46 goal hundred nine point season Boy his last two years not great 82 games played in both seasons third twenty nine and thirty five goals Although he had 41 and 46 in the years before his playoff. What was his? Playoff numbers this so this year to against the Oilers late in the series, right? Yeah, but it's six points in 11 games.

Like not awesome. Four of them are goals. The year before he had 16 points in 19 playoff games. The year before he had 18 points in 19 playoff games. Those numbers are... Yeah. Maybe. At that age, you take a chance for sure, dude. He's 6'3", 201, 25 years old and scored 40 plus twice.

But everybody... This is kind of the part of the monitor conversation where you know, everybody's like oh you can't trade him Oh, you can't trade him but like what if you you can't and like you just need a material shakeup of your team That you're not gonna get by trading somebody that's a lesser person. And this thought is what got the Leafs stuck in this situation where they're about to lose a really great quote unquote asset for absolutely nothing where it's like, well, you can't trade Marner, you can't trade Nylander, you can't trade Matt.

It's like, well, what if you had have just done it? But you know what? Then what would have happened? But a lot of what this is and why that doesn't happen is. Fear. Yes. You can make mistakes as a general manager and you can survive every GM makes mistakes It's no big deal Okay, you can't make a mistake with one of the game's 20 best players in the game's biggest market Mm-hmm and survive it like Kyle Dubas. I think had he had the opportunity, remember Colorado, he almost had that job.

That is a fascinating one. And they didn't let him take it. They didn't let him take it. They blocked it. Shani blocked it and he harbored some ill will towards Shani after that and probably had something to do with how they ended up where they ended up. The influence on maybe letting Lou go a year or two before they probably

should have let him go. They feel like they own the probably should have let him go. They let him. They owned the job because they denied him one. Yeah, no, it's a fascinating what if two. But had he had the opportunity to be somewhere other than Toronto, I know for a fact, he would have done more of what he wanted to do, more of this creative, you know,

let's try five forwards on the ice at the same time, you know, five on five, let's try, like on the ice at the same time, you know, five on five. Let's try like he wanted to do different things. Total hockey? But here, no, not that. But here he knew that it was just you can't survive it. The media noise is too much. My point with that is you don't want to take the risk here in Toronto.

Here GMs don't, even if they should have. Were you shocked how close the heart trophy was between Hellebuck and dry side alborny from a nameless Texer super shocked in fact No disrespect to Connor Hellebuck because he had an awesome year, but You know Steve Valakette has a lot of numbers that talks about Valakette air sorry about Hellebuck and Hellebuck had a So Valakatt air sorry about Hellebuck and Hellebuck had a great season, but he didn't over perform his situation. In fact, he mildly underperformed the spot they put him in. So I didn't think that was a hard trophy season. I think I voted for either McKinnon Dry Cytl or Dry Cytl McKinnon 1-2.

I had to forget the order. I have to lump it out there. I would have gone dry side all I think and just quickly I think we got to go here soon but dry side oh again in a story of Sammy McKee being a bozo I brought up and when was it that I brought up I'm on game time about cost 2400 no no it was but I but obviously all Connor McDavid's gonna be the the the cons might regardless if the Oilers win I Don't know if that's true. I was a dry settle now on bet 365 is ahead of Connor McDavid

Yesterday I did this yesterday yesterday and McDavid was plus 500 and dry settle is plus 1200 no, yes Sam Bennett is plus 150 still the favorite Leon dry saddle plus 250 He was plus 1200 yesterday. I guess when you score the most overtime goals in the history of a playoff run You may win the MVP trophy of that playoff run. All right. Well, thanks for joining me today My pleasure. I can't receive big thanks to Shayna Goldman for her time Thanks to the Panthers and Oilers, the gift that keeps on giving. And we will see you all on Monday. You