Real Kyper & Bourne - The Challenge for Chris Drury with Doug MacLean

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne are joined by former NHL President and GM Doug MacLean (2:45) for Off-The-Rails Friday! Mac discusses potential fixes for the spiralling Sabres, the Senators' playoff hopes, the Leafs' injury concerns in net, the Rangers' dysfunction, how the Canucks manage the Pettersson/Miller relationship and the Oilers starting to separate from the pack. Finally, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee dip into the mailbag and answer your questions on the text line!The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right. Let's take it national on the real Kipper and born show. We are live on sports at six 50 in Vancouver sports at nine 60 in Calgary. This hour of real Kipper and born is brought to you by bet. Three, six, five, Nick Kiprios, Justin bornne, we welcome back Sammy McKee.

And as always, Derek Brandeo and Jake the Snake Schultz. Yes. Also, we should take requests for texts. If you'd like to text us at 590-590. And Kipper, myself, and Sammy'll do our best to answer your questions so between now and maybe about uh 40 minutes from now yep we'll have uh riveting radio and tv for you riveting and then we'll run out of ideas please generate our content yes at 590 590 in a couple of minutes we'll have doug mcclain he'll

help us kill about 20 minutes he'll solve nothing and only confuse us that much more for the record it'll be fun it'll be the doug will be fun but when people generate our content they come up with ideas like our friend of the show dr philosophical who says if you're chicago would you trade seth jones for Owen Power, taking that risk? Owen Power makes 8.3, struggling, high potential. Seth Jones, playing pretty good. 9.5, a steady NHL D right now. Buffalo wants to get better.

How old, Seth Jones? For the record, I would do this if I was Chicago and take on Owen Power. Yeah, sure. Of course. Yes, I would too. So there would have to be some additional. Yeah.

Are we talking about six years difference? Owen Power is 22 and Seth is how old? I don't know. Seth Jones age. He is 30 years old. Yeah. That's a lot of years. You cannot give up those years for sure.

So I'll give you one a little better. More realistic than Sammy's. Me? Yeah. You're the one that suggested it. No, I didn't suggest it. I read it. Yeah, you read it.

In a break. I read it in the break. You read it in the break. You're the one that brought up Seth Jones. Sure. Unrealistic. How about Keondra Miller, New York Rangers? For Owen Power. Yeah. unrealistic how about keandra miller new york rangers for owen power yeah then the rangers are almost saying we're focusing more down the road maybe i'm in maybe all right fresh off his

latest uh tweet on x i don't know he was hiking he was doing something and then he sent getting ready for the real kipper in Bourne show. So let's bring him in. Doug McClain, former NHL president, general manager, head coach, and author. Where were you when you tweeted today that you were prepping for us? I was jogging on the beach. Which sailboat is yours in the picture? None of the sailboats.

I hang out over there, though, during the day once in a while you know so but listen who like who that might be the dumbest trade i've ever heard which one jones for owen power like who who in their right mind would say see that's that's what that's their general manager i didn't radio junkie or whatever he is. Like, seriously. So here's what they – We squashed it. Here's the deal they have.

They have to make a two-for-one deal. Okay? Like, I'll give you an example of a two-for-one deal. They trade Chikrin to Washington, Ottawa, right? And they got two players for Chikrin. They got Jensen and they got Shabbat because all of a sudden Shabbat can play now because he's got Jensen with him.

That's what they need. Yeah, he's been better. They need to make a trade to bring somebody in to help Owen Power become the player he's supposed to be. That's what you have to do. Jensen, and I said it on your show two months ago about the difference in Jensen in Ottawa. He is now all of a sudden it's fun to watch Shabbat play because he's finally playing to his potential. And that's what it's about, bringing in quality veterans with these kids in Buffalo.

That's what it's all about. Where would handing him $8.3 million a year come into play on where his development is today for you? Well, look, it's a lot more than that. They've had 10 years of top 10 picks. 10 years of picking in the top 10. Two first overalls, two second overalls, and not hardly one of them have played a game in the american hockey league not hardly a game in the american hockey league but hold on hold on first first pick overalls

and second overall picks don't hardly play in the american hockey league exactly but there's six others that were picked that didn't play in the American League behind them. Kids have got to learn to play the game. And they've got a bunch of young guys there that haven't learned the game and they don't have the right veterans with them. They've tried. And you know what? It's one of the toughest jobs of being a general manager when you're with a bottom feeder.

And you've got to get the big – they had Eichel. They had Reinhardt. You've got – look, just think about – like I watched Calgary game last night. You watch Kachuk, and I've talked about him on this show numerous times. This guy was taken after Kokaniemi in the draft, okay? Brady, we're talking. I watched him last night get sliced up, get sliced up, takes a high stick, goes out,

scores the winning goal. Then he's the first one out to do an interview. This guy, if you, as a franchise, I was never lucky enough to get that type of player. We dreamt about him. I remember we missed out on Taves. We missed out on all these great players, Stahl, Taves. They all went ahead of where we picked.

And it used to drive me absolutely bonkers. Now Ottawa, with this big horse, like a Barkov, like the big guys around the league, you need that big horse that's going to be your go-to leader and surround them with better players. And I feel like Kevin is, it's frightening watching this team play right now. I'm telling you.

You had a shot at Kopitar and you blew it. You blew it. Yeah, and he went 11. He went 11. Right. Five other guys were just as dumb as I was. Six other guys, including geniuses like Dale Tallon, Doug Wilson, and I can name them off. I mean, real Brian Murray.

Brian Murray took a guy that never played a game in the league. All right, all right, all right. You win, you win. Thank God Brian took him. I actually, I went to Doug's Twitter page to look at the picture you're talking about. And his Twitter masthead is draft day available for pre-order now, October 3rd, 2023. So, Doug, I don't think you're updating your Twitter page very much these days. The way it's selling, I don't have to update.

You guys that have trouble with sales, you got to update, update, update. I don't have to update. You guys that have trouble with sales, you got to update, update, update. I don't have to. All right. So the Ottawa Senators you mentioned, Shabbat looks a lot better having Jensen beside him. You know, I always felt like to win in the NHL, you have to have some of those elite game-breaking guys. Have Kachuk, like you mentioned. Has he got there? Is Stutzla there now?

Do you think this Senators team is a legitimate, they're going to get into the playoff sort of team and can make noise? You know what, I was looking this morning at the, you know, the Rangers going to clean up their mess. You know, that's another mess we should talk about. But are they going to clean up their mess and challenge for that one or two playoff spots that's open? And that's the problem.

I look at the top six. The top six are getting in. The three in each division are getting in. And then it's wide open and it's going to be Ottawa. I mean, can they catch Boston? I mean, is it? And who is there? The Rangers?

It's Ottawa. It's Columbus able to. Merzlikens. Oh, my God. He stood in his head last night, Merzlikens. And what he does is after he plays two or three good games, then he's too tired and they have to bring somebody up from the minors to play because he's exhausted.

Never heard. He's always just exhausted. Anyway, the way goalies are today, well, you can't play them. Here's the difference in Ottawa. Oh, Mark, he was horrible at the start of the year, and now he's really good, and all of a sudden the team is gathering some confidence. As Travis said the other day after the game,

they're finally buying into the system, and I thought, no, Travis, all Mark is making big-time savings, and the team is getting confidence, And now they're buying it. But O-Mark today, and I would never have believed this, O-Mark is better than Swayman right now. It's not even close. Yeah, there's no question that Swayman has not found his game for the Boston Bruins, and that has a lot to do with,

I think, their inconsistencies as well. By the way, I was listening the other day about Stolarz, and I heard pebbles. Like, what's going on with pebbles? Is that a Flintstone thing, or what? Where did this pebble come from? Nothing to worry about. It's just a pebble.

I have never heard of a pebble in somebody's knee before. Is that a new? Like, I thought he was talking Flintintstone what hey fred let me ask you this or barney um what does that do with you in terms of the feelings that you have about the leaf goaltending moving forward like it tells me they've got three guys that I'm now is Murray up yet. He's did he get up playing tonight? Playing tonight. Now they've got three injury prone goalies.

That's that's would make me really nervous. Three of them that you hope they can be ready for me, be available at playoff time, because I'll tell you what, I watched wall at wall and wall and in Dallas the other night, he was good. He played great. Ottinger was horrible. He was really good difference in the game.

I mean, a couple of saves that kid made was unbelievable. So he, he's, he looks real good. Stoller's looks real good. Murray. Well,

what has it been? 900 games since he's played in the NHL or what? A few, a few. I mean, look, well, what has it been, 900 games since he's played in the NHL? A few, a few. I mean, look, I know he's had a good start, but it's good depth for them. You know, you never wish a kid bad that has the health problems he's had. And people thought this guy was a franchise player a few years ago, so we'll see what becomes of him. But they've got good depth now.

They still have the kid in the Marlies that looks like a prospect, becomes them but they got good depth now they still have in the kid in the marley's it looks like a prospect so they've got real good depth and you know their depth throughout the lineup is better right now they look pretty good are you gonna go to the west i want to go to the rangers right now okay all right you want to start if you got a question i do okay so listen i mean we know there's a little bias with Gerard Gallant, for sure, with you. No, not at all. He's on his way to Davos, isn't he, for the Spangler Cup?

Yeah, I might have turned that gig down if I was him. So, why I bring him up is, you know, we know he's a good guy. Everybody knows in hockey he's a good guy, and he would not, you know, look he's a good guy everybody knows in hockey he's a good guy and he would not you know look at peter laviolette um and and wish him ill will on anything you know moving forward but do you think that gerard is looking at the rangers right now and going maybe guys it's not coaching i don't know if well he may not be but i know his wife pam is listen it it wasn't coaching when gerard got fired but there was something happened there with you know what here here's the thing one of the one of the things about being a general manager in the NHL is that you really work to have a good relationship with your coach.

I mean, there wasn't there wouldn't have been every second road trip that I would take the coaches out for dinner, meet them for lunch, treat them to a nice dinner, and talk about the team and talk about things. Dwyer told me in two years in Detroit, they never went to dinner once with Chris Drury. In two years. Once they went to a lunch in two years. Is that team building to me? Is that working to try to get to know your coaches and being around and being part of the group?

I couldn't believe that when I heard that. I couldn't believe it. So is that the reason they're no good? No. But listen, I remember watching that new jersey series the last series you are coached and it was embarrassing watching how crider played how fox played how panarin played how sabana jad played those big guys in that new jersey series that got their coach fired did not show up to play in that series year The year before, they played their tails off,

went to the conference finals. So there's more than a coaching problem with this group. And Drury, I read a great article about him the other day, has to fix it. Because they, right now, have no clue how to play the game. When you give up five, two on ones in first periods and you leave your goalie hung out to dry, you're not going to win many games.

So the way the game is played today. So it does kind of feel like something is rotten there a little bit. And I can't help, but think back to Paul Maurice, just leaving Winnipeg and being like, I don't think this Wheeler Shifle group's ever going to be good enough. I'm just going to go. You know, like it kind of feels like that with the Rangers,

and it seems like they're trying to change that culture. Trade Trouba, trade Kako. Is that what this is going to be, is move out enough bodies, and hopefully that changes things, or do you think this ends up falling on a coach, a GM, someone like that? I don't know how they can make the right deals. You know, you're going to give away good players and are you going to get quality back?

There's one thing when you trade a veteran and you take kids back or you trade kids and you get the quality veteran. But this is trading pretty good players that's that's really not easy to do and if you're going to start moving a crider out and you're going to move a sabana shot out and some of these guys yeah keon jay miller you're going to move out some of these guys you're you're you're going to get yourself in more trouble so it's really a touchy thing because this team is good enough to contend, this team, talent-wise.

There's no doubt in my mind they are good enough to not win the cup, not win the conference, but they certainly can compete for definitely a high playoff spot and there's something that's totally wrong with this group i i don't know if it's levy a lead i don't even know the guy dolan well it's not dolan but i mean he's you know he's got so many people in between him i mean i used to poke him at the at the governor meetings to wake him up because he'd fall asleep at the board of governor meetings. He's got the Knicks to worry about.

We just recently saw an article, I believe, that came out of the Westchester Journal, and the author or the writer alludes me now, but it was an in-depth uh article about the culture in new york and it it had some pretty solid details in terms of at least what appears to be people sharing stories with them and i'm just wondering now if if you as a general manager ever saw that dealing with an owner that you had in like Columbus or or in Detroit with the Illich family like how you would have handled something like that it's it was a really ugly story it was a it was and and the writer talked to people that knew what was going on in that organization. And that's not easy to do.

That's not easy to get people that are close to that scene to talk the way they talked in that article. It was a damning article, a damaging, damning article for a GM to read that. And you know what? There's two situations. You got Buffalo and you got New York that the GMs now are taking some serious heat. And, you know, they've got that's the number one job of a general manager in the NHL is team construction and also the morale of the organization. Team construction is a very tough challenge when you've got to construct the right pieces or put the right piece in place and build your team.

And the morale of your organization. You are the leader. The coach is not the leader. You know that, Nick. In the NHL, the GM has got to be the leader of the organization, and he's got to set the tone. And right now, both those guys, Kevin and Chris Durie, have got monumental jobs to do right now.

All right, so let's take it to another team that's got some drama around them. We'll take it to West now. Just one thing. Yeah, yeah. One point. Yep. to another team that's got some drama around them we'll take it just one thing yeah yeah one one point yep and it all starts it all starts with conversation general manager to the players general manager to the coaches i remember interviewing for an assistant gm's job with harry send it years ago and it was assistant gm job and har and Harrison and said to me in the interview he said

and I was a kid I was I was you know coming out of Detroit as an assistant GM and he said can you stand in front of a walk into an NHL dressing room today you and talk to the team. Do you feel you are capable of doing that? Because he said, I will never hire a management guy who I don't think a GM or assistant who can't walk into my dressing room and grab the attention of the players in that room. Do you think you're capable of doing that? That was the question he put to me. And I had never heard that in my life, ever. And I'll tell you what, walking in front of an NHL dressing room and addressing your team is a really important part of the job. And intimidating, I would imagine.

You don't do it very often. You don't do it very often, but it's a real important part of the job. Intimidating at first. Oh, yeah, very intimidating at first. Oh yeah. Very intimidating. Oh, you're done. It is.

Yeah. I wasn't, I mean, I enjoyed it to be quite honest. Yeah. Well, you know, talking to the team I,

and I enjoyed meeting with players and talking to players. I enjoyed that. It was much, it was, it was a, one of the best parts of the job, you know? So they've got to have major conversations right now

with their groups. So let's talk about the GM position and let's talk about the Vancouver Canucks. You know, they're a fascinating team right now. Drama in their own way, right? Like they have talent. They have a high ceiling. We've seen them hit it before.

But there's some sort of internal conflict and another team that like, we kind of know that we don't know what's going on inside that that dressing room. What do you make of it in Vancouver? You know, I keep hearing that there's there's issues between Pedersen and Miller. And I think that's probably out there. I don't think you're hearing it from me for the first time. Is that what you're alluding to? You're like, you're like Harry Sinden. You know, say it. If you, if let's have the, I hear it. Have you heard it?

I have heard it. It's everywhere that I don't think that's a, yeah. So that I look at. And so now as the GM and president, Jimmy Rutherford and Alvin, Patrick Alvin, is that how you pronounce his name? Alvin. Alvin. Alvin, okay. So now you've got one guy signed for eight years, another guy signed for seven years, and they're going to play together a lot. And that's a problem.

I think that as mature adults, that you would definitely hit that rate between the eyes and straighten it out and fix it. If you can't fix it, can you manage it? Can you actually win around it? You've got to fix it. What if you're not mature adults? If you've got to fix it or you've got to what if you're not mature adults if you you've got to fix it or you've got to manage it and there's always the the comment that the team is a lot more important than your two

personalities and your two little gripes that you have with each other if that's what it is like what could really cause that? Like I remember when I was coach, assistant coach in St. Louis, Brian Sutter got into a fight with Jimmy Pavese in practice and they went at it toe to toe. And I'm thinking, oh my God, two teammates are fighting? And you know what? It was one of the best things that ever happened.

They became great teammates after that. Put them in the ring and let them duke it. No, no, you can't have Pettersson fight Miller. No. Put two guys in. That's a bad idea. Put an extra guy in with Pettersson and fight Miller. So I had teammates that kind of had issues with each other,

and we didn't think too much of it, but it kept kind of going on. And then you find out that one of them owed the other one 15 grand in poker oh no i i we had that we had that problem in detroit it's not pretty yeah yeah not pretty who was the gilbert arenas to put a gun in his teammates locker just let let him know that you owe me some money hey i didn't say it was this serious, guys. So you're reporting. I mean, but I think it's like it's got to be fixable. This is the NHL. Come on.

This is not peewee hockey. Come on, mature. It's a big boys league. Come on. It's all about the team. Speaking of big boys. Just a minute. It's all about the team. Speaking of big boys. Just a minute. I want to preface this. It's like mother used to tell me.

I'm not telling you the truth. I'm just telling you what I heard. Speaking of big boys, Leon Dreisaitl. That's all you have to say. It's Leon Dreisaitl. Yeah. Sorry, Ron McLean. How good is he and how good are the Edmonton Oilers now looking for you?

The Edmonton Oilers look really good, and I'm still really concerned about their lack of depth on the blue line, and I'm concerned about their cap to be able to finish off. I could never figure out the Skinner and a couple of signings this summer. and I'm concerned about their cap to be able to finish off. I could never figure out the Skinner and a couple of signings this summer. I couldn't figure those out. And to jeopardize your cap because of those. So it's going to be interesting how they can work around this to make a couple of key additions at the deadline.

But there was Dreisaitl, He know, Hyman's coming on now. Talk about tough and talk about a warrior when you see his face, you know? I mean, yeah, I like the Oilers a lot. Skinner makes me a little bit nervous, but I'll tell you what, he stepped to the plate in the playoffs last year against Florida, so we'll see.

How about your boy Sid? Just like, you know, he had four points the other night, dragging the pens back. They're 8-2 in their last 10. He scores, then he punches Michael McCarron. What a player. And I like his comment. When the media started ripping him for, you know,

slipping in the points total, all of a sudden it always comes alive for him when he gets criticized. Yeah. He's a special, special guy, boy. I know his uncle, Robbie Forbes, who is really one of Sid's mentors. And I coached Robbie years and years ago. And I'll tell you what, I don't know Sid, but everything.

Hey, listen, how can Sid not be one of the greatest guys? His favorite show was not real Kipper and Bourne. It was Hockey Central at noon. The one with me, Eric, and Anthony Stewart? That's awesome. Look, he used to go out at the first to practice and do his extra work because he wanted to get off the ice after practice so he could watch Real Kipper and what was it called?

Hockey Central at noon. One more. Now he races off to listen to The Sheet. real kipper and or what was it called hockey central at noon yeah uh one more because now he races off to listen to the sheet hey in about an hour uh jb and i will be doing a pre-game for toronto maple leafs and buffalo tonight uh craig bruby mentioned today about austin matthews that he used a couple of phrases one was he's fighting through it and number two was managing it the it we don't know in terms of what's bothering him as a coach and a general manager when you saw a guy that wasn't quite right but still good enough to be out there on the ice. Where is that fine line between keeping him out there or just getting him off the ice for you? When Nash sprained his ankle and he was out for six weeks,

I asked him every day if he was ready to play. You good yet? You take him at 40%? Yeah, I would have taken him at 25 percent with that group but listen um with matthews it's really touchy because um it's unbelievably important that this guy is 100 healthy and um the way they baby goalies like it's sickening the way they like like, it's like the NBA players. Now they don't even practice. They bring five scrubs on the road with them, former college guys,

that actually practice so the veterans don't have to practice. I said to somebody, that's probably why your team's no damn good. You're practicing against scrubs, like practice against your own – but the goalies get babied so much and i would be baby and matthews right now i would get him 100 healthy i really would because he's that important to that team well before and i the week off what do they get uh three or four days off on the scheduled break but um you know he's got this big four nations coming up. Now, our boy Sammy here says not a chance he would play him in that looking at Matthews today.

But you got to assume that there's enough time in January where you can make that decision without needing to make it now. No, you wouldn't make it now. But you're hoping that he's going to get some rest and whatever it is, whatever is ailing them. But they need them a hundred percent healthy. So before you get ready to watch our pregame show in an hour,

you're going to still watch our show. If you have any questions at all, you can text us at five 95 90. Okay. Oh, by the way, by the way, when i was jogging on the beach today i'm i'm i was looking at my phone as i was jogging and i almost ran into this two two guys and their kids on the beach and i said oh man and the guy said oh and so i said oh man sorry about that and he turns he said i recognize that voice i recognize that voice you're you're ron mclean and i said well close he said no no don't mclean you used to be on with kiprio so i said

you know what i was just sending a tweet to kiprio so i said so anyway i just want you to know I'm still very recognizable by people from Ontario here in Florida. Why don't you get yourself down to the DMV in Florida and check if you still have a driver's license? Because you cannot be running over people. Okay? Listen, guys. Thanks. I'm really glad you're questioning me on things Sammy says. Because you cannot be running over people. Okay? Listen, guys. Thanks. I'm really glad you're questioning me on things Sammy says. You know, used to be questioning me on things GMs would say.

Now it's what Sammy says. Sammy says this. And Sammy says they should rest, Matthew. Like, give me a break. On your area, it was Simon says. Now it's Sammy says. Guys, look, I really appreciate you having me on. I really do.

It's been a lot of fun. As Jill says, it's always a great way to start our Friday night. Poor Jill. Tell Jill Merry Christmas and thank her from us we appreciate it as i say honey look the beautiful gifts i buy you kippy makes a lot of those possible we sold a lot of books for you a lot of books you sure did and i appreciate it all right by the way

did i tell you they're in paperback? Yes. Doug McClain, everybody, once again, never disappointing driving it in the ditch for us. I spent a lot of time in the East Coast. I was there for two years going to school, and I'm very familiar with an East Coast goodbye.

They're long. They're long. Long goodbyes. That's a long goodbye. I love these coasters. No better people on the planet. I mean that, by the way. If we didn't kick him off, he'd still want to be on. He'd go forever. You know what?

I don't know people. I've never hung with Doug. I've never had a chance to just have lunch with him. This is like my entire relationship with Doug. Never been in the same room with him. Lunch turns to dinner real quick. Yes. A little different when you're sober maybe.

Wow. We'll get you your fake beer there. the alcohol has nothing to do with the laughs. The laughs will be there 100% when you're sitting beside him. We got to make it happen. I got to buy him a couple.

Okay. Game time? Yes. Go, Sammy. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app, play the odds, and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus.

Ontario only. Please play responsibly. So I was looking at, remember earlier in the week when I was here, I mentioned about Leon Dreisaitl as a mention for MVP. Yeah, and we said, check his odds. And when I mentioned it earlier in the week, before he had another massive game, he was at 25-1. And that odds has now gone from 25-1,

as I just quickly pull it up here, to 20-1. So 10 bucks would have won you 250. Now it'll win you 200. It ain't getting cheaper. No, it's not. You're 100%. You know, you can't give McDavid and McKinnon the MVP every single year. And I guess it's Kirill Kaprizov this year who is kind

of the guy that's... Angling for the lifetime achievement, Hart? Well, I just, I feel like McDavid, I'm sorry that Leon Dreisaitl is super live when it comes to that. Sorry, I got... If he, I'm sorry that Leon Dreisaitl is super live when it comes to that. Sorry, I got. If he wins the Rocket and he's been way better defensively

and he's better, yeah, he's in the hunt. So you mentioned earlier too, you wanted to know what this Leafs and Sabres line was. The Leafs are minus 160 in Buffalo tonight plus 135 for the Sabres and the Moneyline. They're not giving you any real, real value on the Sabres because they know of the history between these two teams. Matt Murray playing his first NHL in 700 games.

You might be better doing puck line, like minus one and a half Leafs. Yeah, minus one and a half Leafs is plus 160. So that's an interesting one to me. I really don't have the best feeling as a Toronto Maple Leaf fan about that game. Feels like it's funny when they've lost 11 in a row. Leafs house of horrors could go badly. And yeah. And that was game time.

Presented by Bet365. Visit the app, play the stars, and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. On terror only. Please play responsibly. Okay, we're going to hit a quick break. And then when we return, a little Ovi talk. I thought we were going to do some text. March. We're running out of time. We got a billion texts. No, we're good. We're going to talk Ovi. A little bit little Ovi talk. I thought we were going to do some text. March.

We're running out of time. We got a billion text. We're going to talk Ovi. A little bit of Ovi and then we're going to do some text. We got 50 million text. We said we were going to do text. I'm talking Ovi. When we return, you're going to want to hear it. So don't go away. Don't listen to Sam.

Back after these words. Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL. The J.D. Back after these words. Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL. The JD Bunkers podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. As a reminder, this hour

of Real Kipper and Born brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kipper, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Okay, quickly, before I was rudely interrupted by Sammy on OV. He's getting a piece of coal in his stocking this Christmas. OV, OV. He's been shut down by head coach Carberry on returning until after after christmas okay everybody said that he was close he also mentioned that he was close but they're going to be careful as they should so he's they've

got about 50 games left and he needs what 25 goals or something like that 27 sammy it's around there yeah oh that big help there right You want me to do the math? I'm an idiot. What do you want from me? It's around there. Yeah, you know what it is. Okay, it's in the facility. It's not many. I wonder, you know, is there enough time for Ovi to do

it this year? Oh my God, what did he score? He scored like 15 goals in 18 games. The funny thing is if he doesn't get it this year, if he gets, like, within a couple, you have to get through summer without incident, you know? Without blowing out your ACL in training or without whatever. Something tells me he's not going to be playing pick-up hoops this summer.

No. So, hopefully, he's... So, he's at 868 right now. Yes. So, let me just... I got to tell you, people really are in support of him getting this done. People are excited about him breaking the record. We don't need to.

Because Sam and I, and I don't know that you've been on train, but we've both been like, I'm not that thrilled about it. Like the Canadian guy having it. He's 27. 27. Yeah. But most people are like, hey, you're being a party pooper. This is a cool thing.

And so maybe... I'm leaning really heavily on it's a cool thing. Yeah. And he has just been better than anybody in the history of the game of doing this. He's the best. Why do we have to do this? He's the best goalscorer in the history of the league regardless. You're just speaking of the number.

He literally has not been the best yet. There is one man who has done it much better. Not by 27. Not adjusted for era. Oh, not adjusted for era. Oh, my God. How many would Ovi have scored in his era? It's impossible to know.

Ovi would probably not. We'll never have any idea. It's like he ain't scored a lot more. Yeah, but you don't know. I mean, anyways. Okay. All right. Now we can go to your text 590-590.

Okay. We're good. I better have a good one now. I gave the OV update. Crystal from Stouffville. Was Nick ever invited to play in the Spangler Cup? No. Did it exist?

No, I'm not trying to be a jerk. No, it did. Yeah, it did. How long has it been around? I think it's been around for a long time. Canada's been going for a long time? I do believe so. Yeah.

And the answer is no. No, I never got a sniff. And everybody just speaks so highly of it. It's a bucket list item for me. Right? To go. Yeah. And the scene's apparently phenomenal in Switzerland.

I would like to take a Switzerland vacation too if that's the conversation we're having. I don't need to watch Sam Gagné post-retirement play hockey, but I'm interested in going to... I'd go skiing while he played. I would love to go to Davos. That sounds amazing. And just get updates.

You guys are nuts. Like, you wouldn't want to go to a game? Why? Why? It's in a historic old barn. The barn looks amazing. By the way, 1923 was the first year, so it's over a hundred-year-old hockey tournament. See all the cool jerseys, the people singing, the people chanting.

Why would we go there, have a great time, drink our face off, and then miss work the next day? Oh, I knew that. Why would we do that? Hey, it wasn't the next day, buddy. I had two days before I missed a day. But you weren't good on those two days. Yes, I was great. I was perfect.

And I'm not even good today. So what are you talking about? Harry from Meaford. Did Kipper ever fight Bob Probert? Surely not. No, no, no. I was genuinely frightened of the man. I saw Probert fighting Domi.

I would have if I had to. I just never felt like I had to. Yeah, well, yeah. That's like total back against your wall. No out. You versus the rest of your life feeling like you were a coward. You'd have to do it in that moment. You's how you have to feel before you fight that guy. And who was the most scared you've ever been to fight?

Chris Simon and Tony Twist. I can't believe you fought those guys. I can't either. Tony Twist. Oh, my God. All right. If Pegla moves on from Adams at the end of this season, which qualified GM candidates are lining up to take on that gig?

Mark Hunter, question mark? That's a great pick. I think Mark Hunter's always a name that we hear, for sure. I think he'd be great. Does our buddy Mike Futa get... Get feuts in there? You know, everybody's listening to his genius work at noon. Get feuts in there.

Right? You know, I can't help but think of the way that like i feel like jim rutherford turned the canucks around and don waddell is giving credibility to the blue jackets and like is there an older guy who's done it who's had success you're trumpeting the older dinosaurs now wow's awesome. I think you want those people leading. Can you get me in? Let's see what I can do, pal. I don't think you want in.

Call the senators. And leave this? Yeah, leave all of this. But to your point, there is something for experience at that level. Lou Lamorello might be available. Hopefully not. experience at that level so lou lamorello might be available so hopefully um like kevin adams could keep his job but why wouldn't you put in a ken holland beside him if lou at age 83

says i don't want to do this anymore, but I'm happy to go mentor somebody. Wouldn't he be awesome? That's kind of what I'm talking about here. Can you have someone who's just been through it, who is a professional, who knows the ins and outs of the whole thing? Like Doug McClain, like in all seriousness. Think about his...

Not joking, I think that would be fine. Not joking, but assistant coach, head coach, right? General manager, president of hockey ops. The guy has done it and lived it for 30 plus years. And also is going to sit idly by while they're bad. Why in anyone's right mind would they not think that that would be a good thing? Even Kevin Adams to have a, and there was talk about it. Didn't they just interview Doug

a year ago or something? Don't you remember what happened? Doug came on the show, mentioned that he had talked to Buffalo. And then our first guest in our first hour is Mike Harrington from Buffalo News. And he wrote an article on it based on listening to Doug on our show.

Oh, geez. And that didn't help? And I don't know. They didn't hire Doug. But Doug would be perfect to go into Buffalo and help Kevin Adams. It would be fascinating to see, right? Yeah, I do think you need some experience there. Okay, so this text says,

Kipper is always talking about Martin St. Louis' man-on-man play with the Montreal Canadiens. Are they always talking about that? I think I've mentioned it maybe once or twice. I've talked about it. Are you zone defense or too much? I think that Gaz and I did a bit on it on a show the other night where it's like they don't have the horses to play man-on-man,

but they do play man on man. They chase guys around with Justin Barron and the rest of who they don't have anymore. Didn't we watch the Leafs do that a lot too prior? Yeah. They did it like a hybrid. Early Sheldon Keefe. Now it's a pretty good zone.

The follow-up question is, how secure is his coaching job? Thanks, Dennis. Marty St. Louis. Yeah. I think he's, he's fine until he doesn't want to, to,

to do it anymore. Or maybe in a few years, it doesn't feel like it's progressing, but it ain't now. Is it like Charlie Montoyo here a little bit where they're like, everyone likes this guy. They are happy to have him there kind of while they're in transition. And no one's going to complain because he's such a legend there while they're figuring it out.

And maybe once they are looking to win hockey games, maybe they think more about it. But right now, what do they even want to win right now? I'm not sure about that. And listen, I'm not speaking out of like jealousy although i would love dearly to be considered like the status of a hall of famer or one of the best players in the world but when you go down a certain list of people that are

still involved in our game that aren't playing anymore like a brendan shanahan like a stevie eiserman like a joe sakic and i let's put marty san luis in there there is a level of of longevity that you get out of being that guy than anyone else and marty marty can enjoy it right now in montreal not feeling the pressure even though the results aren't there on a consistent basis yep so true hey it's not uh not unreasonable to suggest you get an extra bit of a leeway when you've been the player. Yeah, and Marty has that in Montreal. Lots of Kipper-specific questions.

Oh, gosh. Can we talk about his green sweatshirt? Merry Christmas, gentlemen. Wondering who Kipper's favorite coach was. I had fun with Paul Holmgren. Yeah. Because he was just so intimidating. And he would scare young players like Mark Gregg,

who's Ridley's dad in Ottawa. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it would be hilarious in between periods because he'd grab a half-broken hockey stick and start slapping it in his other hand. And then you'd hear that whack in his hand. And watching Mark Gregg, like, cringe every time he heard that sound

of his hand slapping against a Sherwood. Least favorite coach? Least favorite coach? Least favorite coach? That wasn't included in the question. I just thought I'd take some liberties. Probably Terry Murray, who replaced his brother Brian in Washington. I just couldn't win him over as much as I did his brother.rian in washington i just i couldn't win him over yeah as much as i did his brother that's crazy a brother took over for another brother yeah brother give some shout

outs to my uh we won the midget provincials with the millers and the helliers behind the bench so shout out to some uh friends from west side um but i played for uh davis pain in uh in the echl for a very short period of time and he's now with the Winnipeg Jets. He coached, head coached the Blues for a bit. He was in Los Angeles and Ottawa as well. Awesome coach, smart dude, and also the same thing where it's like that intimidating presence that

I think works, and I think you kind of have to have to be taken seriously almost in the league. Shout out to Scott Ford in Columbus, too. He's an assistant coach there. He's going to be a head coach one day. Okay, love it. Oh, AJ McClain asan as well go ahead here's another one for you this is another fake trade that got me in trouble even though i wasn't the one that brought it up so this is from brad in london i would like to see riley and robertson to the rangers for crider riley and robertson to the rangers for crider like some of these trades are like it's too much for me

to process. Like you get rid of Morgan Riley and then you get a 30 goal scoring winger who also doesn't pass. Like, are we better? I don't mind talk of Kreider coming here, but like you just cannot give up a top four defenseman. You need him.

And just ditch, leave a hole there, right? Another winger. It's just depth. What have I told you guys the last few years? Like you need a seventh defenseman, you need an eighth defenseman and possibly one that could see playoff action at your ninth defenseman. You cannot get rid of Morgan Riley

no matter how underachieving you think he is right now unless you're getting a top four defenseman back. I'm going to say something that I'm going to boo myself off the show for, but I'm going to say it anyway. It's December 20th of 2024. Let's see who scores more between now and December 20th

of 2025, Nick Robertson or Chris Kreider. Oh my God. Let's just see. Okay. Check on it next Christmas. Okay. All right. I'll make a note. Quick one from Calgary. If Dustin Wolfe keeps his pace up, could he win Rookie of the Year? Been a while since a goalie won. Thanks, David in Calgary.

Well, as an awards voter, he's currently the top of my ballot. Over Celebrini? Well, Celebrini for me, it's games played. If he gets the games played, then yes. He'll be the dude. Calgary's, they've kind of faltered a little bit here. Haven't they?

They strung a few games in a row in the last little while. Yeah, they've had some OT disappointments. Yeah. No, they're sour about the high stick last night that Kachuk got away with on Huberto, and then he goes down the other way and scores the winner with his big, ugly lip. Yeah, he tried to sell it, too, right? Yeah. Nice play by Allmark to get a helper on that, too, eh?

It was an unbelievable play, yeah. Nice breakout, and yeah, Ottawa's got good vibes going. Once you start to believe, too, and I think the Sens believe that they are a team now, you start to play with a little bit more pep in your step. All right. That's it, boys. All right.

Off to, well, I'm off until. You got to race. I'm going to walk. You're going to run because you got to get that ugly green sweatshirt off. You're wearing that, eh? I am wearing this. I got the pinstripes going. I'll wear a brown.

But this is Borny's last show until the 30th of December, right? Because we have that show on the Monday. Is that when we're back? You're taking a sled to New York, right? Yes. Yeah, I'm going to be at the Islanders game here in a couple days. Excited to check that out. Haven't been to UBS Arena yet.

I'll get to see the Buffalo Sabres. And the Islanders. What a match. So the New York Rangers have not only let the Ottawa Senator fans have new life, but like a lot of other teams. They're just taking the heat off the aisles right now. No, the aisles don't have playoff glasses on. Well, I think they do. I just think

no one is looking at them and laughing right now because the Rangers are doing what they're doing. Lou will not wave the white flag. They don't quit on seasons. Alright, Sammy. Good job, buddy. Well rested. You're right.

Carried us today. Our thanks to Mike Harrington from the Buffalo News Sports in our Leaf Hour edition of our show. And as always on Friday, off the rails, Doug McClain. Terrific job. Alright. Get your running shoes on. Half an hour.

We go live. Sportsnet Ontario. Buffalo and Toronto. Gonna be fun. See ya. Have a great weekend, everybody. Stay safe. And we're back Monday, 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern. See you then.