Real Kyper & Bourne - The Expansion Equation

Episode Date: February 2, 2024

Live from NHL All-Star Fan Fair, Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne start the second hour with NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly (0:33). He gets into the Hockey Canada 2018 investigation, growing the game with Four Nations Faceoff and Salt Lake City expansion. They regroup with Sam McKee for a deeper dive into expansion and how many teams the league could sustain. Afterwards, they are joined by the mayor of Fan Fair, Gord Stellick (26:16), who shares some All-Star memories, his thoughts on the Four Nations Faceoff, NHL expansion in Canada and teams to watch at the deadline.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome back into the Real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver and Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. This hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet365. We are down at the Fan Fair at the Metro Convention Centre in light of the NHL All-Star Weekend. A ton of people here. If you get a chance, please stop by. It's a great site and it's a great vibe as we go into tonight's skills competition. Let's welcome in Deputy Commissioner of the National Hockey League, Bill Daly. Bill, thanks for joining us. It's already

been a very busy afternoon for you. State of the Union addressed, as Commissioner Gary Bettman always do this time of year at the NHL All-Star. And, you know, I know we're going to get into expansion. We can get into Olympics, Four Nations face-off and all of that, but obviously the big story off the ice continues to be the investigation and the alleged charges to five individuals. And, you know, I can't sit here, Bill, and think I'm going to ask the one question that you didn't get or you and Commissioner didn't get today at the press conference,

but to be honest with you, I'm just not that deep enough. Maybe my buddy Justin Board wants to get into it. But just tell me for one second, like you've been around for a long time, but how difficult is it to stand up there and answer these type of questions for you and Gary, no matter how long you've been in the business? Look, the story is an awful story, right? And you feel bad for almost everybody associated with it. And, you know, it's taken its twists and turns, you know, beginning from the start with what Hockey Canada, how Hockey Canada approached it, how the London police approached their initial investigation,

what transpired after that. And, you know, we went through our own significant investigation and now it looks like we are at least we have a path in terms of trying to kind of resolve what happened and address it appropriately and you know we'll see where that process takes us. I wish it didn't happen. Bill, how much does your decision-making on what to do with these players rely on the legal outcomes with London Police

versus what you guys have uncovered with your own investigation? I think it definitely has an impact. We're going to see how the legal process plays out. And I think we may learn even more than we know now as that process plays out. And I think we need to have all the facts that we could possibly have to respond in an appropriate way. Between Hockey Canada, London Police Service, and your investigation internally, it doesn't sound like there's been a collective group effort from all of you. Is it one of those scenarios where they're doing their thing

and you're on the outside looking in, you're doing your thing, they're not involved. Has that been part of the frustration a little bit? Maybe lack of coordination, information shared? Look, that's how it proceeded, right? We were very, very separate investigations. Hockey Canada did what they felt they needed to do. London Police did what they felt they needed to do and we did what we felt they needed to do. London Police did what they felt they needed to do,

and we did what we felt we needed to do. So there was no coordination on that front. There could be a host of reasons for that, and they could all be good reasons and legal reasons. I'm a lawyer, but I'm not a criminal lawyer expert, particularly in Canadian law. So I don't know why there wasn't a more coordinated approach, but there clearly wasn't. Bill, I know you've answered a lot of these questions today. Kip, did you want to ask anything else on this before I turn the page?

I know we only have Bill in a little bit. Just in terms of your next move, in terms of following the story, are you basically like everyone else, waiting to see what the London Police Service say when they have their press conference, I guess, on Monday, and then you'll act accordingly to the information that you receive, like the rest of us? Yep. Is that fair to say?

That's exactly where we are. We'll see what happens on Monday and we'll respond in an appropriate manner. We will await that with the rest of the hockey world. Obviously, lots of news today. The Olympics, very exciting for a lot of hockey fans. First, I want to ask you about the Four Nations Face-Off. It's a unique event.

I guess what goes into choosing the Four Nations? Some geopolitics, I believe, were mentioned with Russia. How does that process of deciding happen? Well, I think the initial intention was to be able to actually have a World Cup of Hockey in 2024. This year, really, like next month, we would have loved to be playing a normal World Cup of Hockey tournament. When we first broached that subject with the IIHF and with the member national associations

and with the leagues in Europe, it turned out that it was really too complicated to make that happen in the time frame that we needed to make it happen. And you throw in the Russian aggression in Ukraine, complicating things. So we figured we needed to have a plan B, and that turned out to be the four nations face-off. I think it's going to be a fabulous competition.

Seven hockey games, a pure round-robin, and a final game over a nine-day period in February. I think it's a good lead-in to Olympic participation and hopefully a regular World Cup after that. We've done mock-ups of all NHL players, only NHL players. We've done mock-ups of the rosters on those four teams. It's going to be a fabulous tournament, like very competitive. Bill, is there a sense from the league or the Players Association that as of today, like there's a clear agenda, there's a clear path moving forward. If we wanted to go back to 1980 with the gold medal game

and where the introduction of international hockey really started to this point. Right now, I think we'd all collectively say that we didn't advance it, right, as much as we would have liked up until this point. Like, do we blame, you know, do we look in the mirror and do we say, strikes, lockouts, pandemics? Where have we failed collectively that the process has been so slow in our game to advance international competition? Yeah, I mean, that's a good question. And I haven't thought of it in those terms.

I guess I like looking forward and not backward yeah uh but but there's no doubt there's been missed opportunities uh in in potentially growing the game internationally i do think as a sport we've gotten to a point where um you know we're developing elite level hockey players all over the world right and and you know, we're in a time now where international hockey couldn't be better, right? So I think we're hopefully looking forward, hitting a sweet spot where we can start to take advantage of those opportunities. And so what has changed recently, I guess, for it to all unfold

that we can announce 26 and 30? I know there used to be disputes over insurance and travel and all that. Is it just a simple matter of negotiating with the IIHF? Yep. We did negotiate the parameters. I heard you did pretty good. It was the same issues, right? They're not novel issues.

I think the IOC and the IIHF and the member associations and even the organizing committee in Torino approached it a little bit differently in terms of how they were going to deal with those issues. But ultimately, we were able to resolve them and move forward. And it's not just for 2026. We actually thought it was important, and this was a IIHF request, really, can we make an announcement or an agreement that encompasses 2026 and 2030

so that there's some certainty and we're not going olympics to olympics saying well you know we'll see if we can participate next time right so um i think creating some continuity in this area is good for the business model too in terms of building a foundation right kind of helps when you get the feeling that they need us more than we need them i I've certainly found that in the Four Nations face-off. It's fascinating that it's finally going to happen. Everyone's excited to see Crosby, McDavid, and the rest of the crew.

I was just going to say, to Justin's point, when you have conversations with Connor McDavid, it's pretty crystal clear. He left no doubt as to what his position was. That's great. We appreciate your time today. I don't know, Kip.

You got a couple minutes? I know we had ten. No, we're good. Expansion. Salt Lake City looks like a dog wanting to come in the house right now. They're scratching, they're crawling. You've got to let them in.

So what I'll say is, obviously, there's been a lot of interest from a lot of cities, some more advanced than others, and Salt Lake City is probably at the top of that list. There's no doubt. We have an owner who really really uh wants to bring hockey to to utah and you know gary and i had a conference call last week with uh you know the governor of utah and and top legislators of utah who kind of echoed ryan's enthusiasm over bringing nhl hockey to utah so um clearly we know there's a demand there. But we haven't, and this is really more,

we're going to take our direction from our owners on the subject of expansion. And, you know, this is something we're going to have to brief them on, as well as the other interests that's been expressed, and see what direction they want to go. But as of right now, we're not in expansion mode. It's not a front burner issue. It's one of the many issues we deal with. Okay, but one of them is the situation in Arizona.

The new executive director of the NHLPA was very adamant today. He was? Yes, he was. Would you like me to read what he said today? Very adamant and direct. Extremely concerned and disappointed that this is a situation where, you know, even their ownership group has refused to engage the players on this front. Can I ask you why you guys have been so patient with Arizona and continue to be?

Let me go back because I think it's incumbent on me to try to defend the club a little bit here. I know what Marty said. He said that same thing before. From what I understand, the actual facts are, Arizona has made an effort to coordinate and communicate with the Players Association on virtually every issue that the Coyotes players have raised with respect to their current situation. So I think they've been far more responsive than the Players Association wants to give

them credit for doing. As to your real question as to why we've been so patient. I mean, I've answered it the same way for 20 years now, so I'll answer it the same way again. Look, we make investments. Clubs make investments in markets in terms of developing fan bases and wanting to be successful. That's no different here.

There's been significant investment in the Arizona community, and this is an ownership group that wants to operate the team in Arizona. By the way, over time, that's been a concern to me, that at some point in time you might want an owner who really is not interested in staying in Arizona, but that's not the case with Alex Morello. Having said all of that, I mean, you know, I'm realistic enough to say and know that, you know, you don't have unlimited time, and we can't stay. We can't have an NHL franchise stay in the arena they're playing in, you know,

beyond a couple years. It's not right for anybody. I'll just one throw in, Kip. Sorry, go ahead if you want to follow up on that. I was just going to ask if there's a cap. Is there a number of teams where you'd say, all right, everyone wants to be in the league, they have a great rink, we like that city, you know, 34, 36.

Like, is there a number for you guys where you're like, okay, that's excessive? Well, I mean, it's a good question. I mean, it's something we have to think about. 32 for us was a good number. Yeah. And we thought that was the right number at the time. The difference between our league and the other major professional sports leagues in North America, though, is the fact that we have significant Canadian content, right?

So we have seven clubs in Canada, which means we're only in 25 markets in the U.S., and some of those are shared markets in the U.S., right? So that gives us more opportunities than maybe some of the other professional leagues in terms of considering expansion as a possibility. And actually, I think, puts us in a position, a better position than some of the other teams. If you get to 40, Kip could still play. I had Bruce Boudreaux tell me that he could still coach. Bill, we really appreciate your time stopping by and answering our questions.

Have a great night. Thank you. We're in the betting world. Who's taking home a million bucks tonight? You know what? I was going to answer that question with my real opinion, but I probably should. Good idea.

Great seeing you guys. Deputy Commissioner of the National Hockey League, Bill Daly. Alright, thanks for joining us. That was awesome. Alright, Sammy, we're going to go to break. Keep it going. Get Sammy the headset and we'll carry on. One thing that Bill

just touched on is the fact that I found really interesting that compared to other leagues, we only have 25 in the US. Interesting note. 25 US. Meaning, we think that we can go to 30 U.S.

Yes, I agree. And then seven in Canada. So, listen, for Canadians out there, wherever you're watching or listening to our show or downloading it, it doesn't bode well for another Canadian city getting a team because the focus, I think we got out of that, was U.S. of A. Yeah. Well, you look at it, and I don't know how many teams are in the NFL. It's at 32, 34. MLB is not too different.

The point being that we're so far behind in the U.S. with that number. Was it you that mentioned, I forget what day it was, that you talked about how they want to be in Houston. Houston, Atlanta. That's why they're fighting for Phoenix. Those are the biggest U.S. markets. We've got a Coyotes jersey right here. We've got a guy.

A Kachina. There it is. It's a beauty. Oh, biz nasty. What else would it be, I guess? How much do you pay to wear that? I love it. That's awesome.

Yeah. We've got a piece of that in the house. Come on. Do the math. I don't know. Another's awesome. Yeah. Come on. Like, do the math. I don't know, another three or four teams, $4 billion, more than that maybe. Yeah, but Kip, the league can't sustain it. It can't. I don't know.

You know what? What is your perception or interpretation of sustaining? Quality. Just putting. It's debatable, though. It's your eye, someone else's eye, the fan's eye. That's a good point. And to be honest, if you're the league, you go, oh, there's more mistakes,

so there's going to be more goals. We can live with that. And people enjoy goals. If you're a guy in Salt Lake City, you're like, I don't care how bad these guys are for the first couple years. He's fine. He's a fine player. I don't know. We've got hockey programs

now going strong in Dallas, California, Florida. You're seeing the fruits of that too, right? All the Cali kids. Austin, obviously a product of it. He's not the only one. I think they go back to the office and they've mapped out 35.

Wow. 35. We just had a moment. We just had a moment. No, I really get the sense of that, especially just talking to Bill Daly. And a second team in Toronto, and we're at 30. Nobody says it has to come in the next year or two, but I think depending on Gary Bettman, how long he wants to stay as commissioner, which I would probably think another five years. Five years?

Maybe. Is he going to keep working that long? I mean, I don't know. You want to turn down his paycheck right now? I do not. You guys can yell at me all you like. No, I don't get the sense that he's going anywhere anytime soon, but I would think that he'd be having a number of how many teams in the league when he does

shut it down. And I wonder if that's part of the sales pitch to a future owner right now. You say to Seattle, you say to Ryan Smith, you say, come in now and you'll be one of the guys collecting a check when Team 34 and 35, 36. The thing you mentioned to him that we didn't talk at all about was the who's paying for everything with the Olympics thing. They are. The IHF. They are.

They cut a good deal here. The IHF was like, okay, we'll do it. And Gary kind of smirked about that on stage. I'm like, is that guy happy about that? He actually tried to boast a little bit about that. And then the IHF was like, but also we're getting some money from the Federation. It's not just us.

We're robbing Peter to pay Paul. Yeah. So Gary didn't care where the money was coming from, nor should he. No. He just knows it's not coming. And he sent a message in his press conference to the other owners. Did you catch that one? Where he just basically said, hey, if any of my owners are listening right now hey we're not we're not flipping the bill yeah like yeah so that's so

they know that he's representing them well and at some point don't like you know i know you're worried about your players or whatever but like you want your players to be happy ultimately and it's like if you're not flipping the bill and they're gonna go over there and it sucks because you know they could get hurt like what happened to to John Tavares, I know it happens, but don't you ultimately want guys to be happy playing for your team? I don't know. I just feel like it's been too long. The whole play on international hockey is just the growth of the game,

and where else can we find money, guys? Where is it out there? And at the end of the day, you want to go to Sweden? That's fine. But it's like 5 million people there. Right? 6 million people. It's not a big market to complicate the league.

It's not. What is that? It's Ontario, guys. Yeah. Right? Well, that's Toronto. You know, that's... So where else is it?

And where are we on... That's where else is it? And where are we on NHL rights and streaming and all of it? Where can we tap? Yeah, that was an interesting question. Someone asked, can you share the videos for your athletes? Because that's something that you haven't been able to do in the past, right? Like on social media and stuff, you can't use highlights from these incredible best on best games, like on socials.

I can't even recall now. The rings was an issue. The NHL couldn't use the rings. They couldn't, but you like on, on when you're watching on sports and after the game, they'd be like, here's a picture.

Yeah. The goal never happened. It's like, it's like gaslighting. It's like, that did happen. There's a still picture. Yeah. The Golden Bowl never happened. It's like gaslighting. It's like that did happen. There's a still shot. We're this far away from like a sketch artist. Right.

It's like you guys remember the Golden Goal. Draw the picture of Sid shooting the puck. Yeah. No, that's true. So one thing I did want to mention, too, was he mentioned the Four Nations faceoff. He goes, you know, it's seven games over nine days. Nine days? Yeah. Is the NHL shutting down for two weeks midseason?

Yeah. Yeah, they are. I mean, that's consequential. Well, the boys from the other country are like, oh, hello, Cobble. The Slovaks are like, let's go. Hello, Cobble, baby. Let's go. How about the, yeah, kind of shape the guys are going to be coming back in.

Well, you have to actually stay in shape. That's a period of time where you can genuinely get out of shape. And I don't love, if I'm one of the guys in the Four Nations face-off, that my season just went from 82 to 86 competitive games. Yeah, it's different. And I know we've had this conversation on this expansion, you know, thought, and talking about I think one of the biggest ways Gary Bettman can solidify his legacy, especially here in Canada, is to put a second team in Toronto.

I still love it. This, to me, is more viable than ever. This has legs. I mean, not soon, but I brought it up on the morning show today. It has, I'm telling you from my perspective, knowing that we don't know what the Leaf ownership group will look like in two years, that this has legs, like you said. What a check you'd have to cut.

I brought up my team name idea on the morning show today. Did it get shouted down? I went to the text line after. Inviscerate. It's just a terrible idea. I'm not even bringing it up here. Someone over here. No, no.

You can't do that on our show. It's game time. He wants it to be the Toronto Hearts. Yeah. Because they have a lot of heart. Heart of the city. No, not that kind of heart. The heart of the city. Anyways, we've got to do game time. He wants it to be the Toronto Hearts. Yeah. Because they have a lot of heart. Heart of the city. No, not that kind of heart. The heart of the city.

Anyways, we've got to do game time. You guys ready? I know, Kip. I know. It's game time. I don't know him. It's game time. Presented by Bet365.

Visit the app for the latest odds. Find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. On terror only. Please play responsibly. Now, I'm looking at the specials for tonight with the nhl all-star rib or oh yeah oh yeah yeah oh what's oh different special yeah yeah yeah special bet uh the all-star game so the accuracy shooting and all that stuff i mean i think i went through that yesterday

but the game mvp it's still staying at nine-1 with Austin Matthews as the favorite. To me, with all I talked about with the Vancouver aspect of this and that team being kind of stacked and our Michael Bublé talk, I feel like one of those guys could really try to show out. And I'm looking down the list here. Elias Pettersson is 12-1, and I'm just quickly trying to find where Quinn Hughes. Quinn Hughes, who is excellent three-on-three, great skater, good offensive player, he is 40-1 to be the All-Star game MVP.

And someone random will win it. That's what I mean. Like, all it takes is for this team to win, which is a stacked team, and him to have, you know, four or five points and all of a sudden he's the MVP. So. All right. So, and the other one that I had. That's good value.

Oh, there you go, Kipper. And if you want, you know, Connor McDavid is plus 120 to win the fastest skater. Plus money. I was talking to someone about that. It seems like overthinking. There's only five guys in the event. Yeah. Plus money on the fastest skater in the world.

Yeah. Maybe want to jump on that. I'm not going to lie to you guys. I do have a little bit of a phobia of somebody blowing a wheel. Do they not have pads in the corner? I don't know. I don't know. Well, I agree.

Bails of hay. Listen, to me, it's still. Bails of hay. You can twist an ankle or a knee just as well in a big haystack. It's a needle in a haystack, boys. All right. That was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app, latest odds, and find out why it's never ordinary. Bet365 must be 19+.

Ontario only. Please play responsibly. You see who's hanging out over there? Break time. Well, look it. It's the mayor of FanFest. Sorry, sir. No autographs. of FanFest. Sorry, sir. No autographs. We're cut off.

I'm sorry. So, yeah. We'll hit the break and then we'll get the board. We'll hit the break and we'll bring in StelicTricity and we will sign something for him. More real Kipper and Board after these words. Big opinions and in-depth conversations covering the leafs jays raptors and the nfl the jd bunkin podcast subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your

podcasts All right. Forget about Grammy Award winners. Forget about deputy commissioners of the NHL. We saved the best for last. Are you going to sing like Buble? Is that me? The mayor of Fan Fair, Gord Stelic. And I'm here to present you

with the key to Fan Fair. Right? Don't mayors do that? I think that's their only role as far as I am aware. Hey, what's with your kid Charlie? Every team that fires a coach, they should sign him. I know. They need that kind of energy. It's a positive vibe. He's ready to go. He's looking good.

No one, includingipfer and Bornhat. No one, including Connor McDavid and Austin Matthews, is busier than you this weekend. This is my bailiwick. I could be trade show gourd, right? I could go on the road. I've got to find out, go to Finland Falls. There'll be nothing of you left. That's it.

I'm a puddle. Give us your itinerary. What have you been doing? Well, so I did our show on SiriusXM NHL Network. Then three panels, interactive panels. One was with the officials for this weekend. Steve Walken set them up. It was great.

The two referees, two linesmen. Are they going to call anything? We had fun with that. Actually, I was a little bit worried about that one because it's just kind of different. And at first, it was friends and family, then a bunch of crowd came. Then it was great. Then Austin Matthews and Willie Nylander were my first panel. And then Mitch Marner and Morgan Raleigh were my second panel.

So those were just jammed in, and it was fun. I mean, it represents the four Leafs being here for the weekend. And, okay, here's my plug for my book. I'll just leave it at this. In the book revival I did with Damian Cox, here for the weekend and um okay here's here's my plug for my book i'll just leave it at this in the the book revival i did with damia cox the point being is that team was homegrown guys daryl sither tiger williams borya salming lanny mcdonald all signed drafted by the leafs 40 years later they're best friends now i don't know if these guys will be or not but they get that series win

over your new york islanders pat burns teams and and Pat Quinn's teams were not homegrown Leafs. These four that were there today, they're homegrown. And they've got to win that playoff series against a team like the Islanders. You know, and everything's great. It's a great vibe. They win. They're chilling. They're fun.

They're really comfortable. Were they fun? They were great. They were great. That's great. Really, like, you know, particularly like Austin's really found a niche. Morgan's always been Morgan. Mitch can be, I don't want to say serious, he's good,

but I love Willie and Austin. They're just, you know, they get it here. But again, you want to get that playoff success. So anyway, it was fun. Does the All-Star game matter or not? Last year, Matthew Kachuk was the MVP, and they made it to the Stanley Cup Finals. So, I don't know.

We're talking to former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs and, of course, one of our favorites here on Real Kipper and Board, Gord Stelic. Now, you've covered all-star games, including the one 20 years ago with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah. We covered a few together, I think, in Minnesota on our way home. You got stopped by security. I had to drop your pants. Yeah, okay.

Hey, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your kipper cam back there. We're in Minnesota. Yes. It's freezing. And I got a hip replacement three years. There's two parts to it.

First of all, of all things, we're going to Minnesota. I don't know why. I had scheduled getting snipped. Okay? Whatever. So a couple days before. He's got a bag of peas everywhere we look. He's got a bag of peas in his groin.

You're supposed to do it before Master's weekend so you can sit on the couch. Dr. Kippy goes, oh, you're going to really swell. I mean, Kippy. He was right. We get to the hotel room. Everyone's getting ice for drinks, and I'm getting ice for El Gordo. I'm calling a big ball Stelic all weekend. And then coming back, because three years later, I'm giving my whole history,

I had a hip replacement. So it goes off when I go through the metal detector. And Kippy's on it like whatever, El Gordo getting a pad down. So back then I had this thing called the Kipper Cam before there was phones, right? So I'd go around and film everything. You actually carried like a little handy cam thing? A little handy cam everywhere. Where's our picture by the Mary Tyler Moore statue?

Remember in all honesty, freezing cold, the Mary Tyler Moore statue. We've got to find that. Turn the world on with a smile. Gord Stelic, that's who. That's it. Not that nice. So where does the vibe today compare to what we saw here in 1999 or 2000? 2000.

2000. And anything else that you've experienced? Again, the vibe's a lot stronger, okay? 2000 was a bit of a, I mean, it's funny. The world versus North America just didn't do it, okay? And the game just didn't do it. It really didn't, except Cindy Lauper was in my row. That was kind of cool.

Is that true? Yeah, she was. Cindy Lauper and Mary Tyler Moore. This is a heck of a reference. So anyway, yeah, yeah. Really keep things current, Gordo. Yeah, yeah. We just want to have fun.

Our favorite guest for the last time, Gord Stelic. Yeah, until he gets to 2024, at least 2010. And then, so they had the great, remember they had the great Field of Dreams video? That was unbelievable. They did like. Gordie Howe, Mary Lemieux, and Wayne Gretzky. And Bobby Orr. All the guys that don't normally show up.

So that was the one most memorable. The Expo wasn't the same level. So I've got to give them full marks about growing. We'll see how the skills go and everything else. They had to change the format. Three-on-three's worked ever since that game in Columbus. And they had to kind of rejig the skills, and they've done that tonight. So when it comes to your town, it's great.

It's fun. That's what it is. Sure. Great vibes around here. The fanfare has been a lot of fun um looking forward to tonight so wanted to ask you about some of the news today from bill daly is the olympics coming back and the four nations face off all sorts of news i wanted to get your thoughts on sort of this makeshift tournament the nhl is doing you get can Canada, U.S., Sweden, Finland. What are your thoughts on what they're doing here?

So, first of all, I get defensive and say it should be six teams because that's what we're used to, or some people say eight teams. But then you go, what's wrong with four? It's a start, and maybe you do it right, and maybe you can grow from it. Now, is the idea that every second year we'll have an international event, which would be great because that means every second year an All-Star game, which, you know, it gets a little tired. The All-Star game, different places and stuff. So, I like it. I love the fact

that you know what Kippy, and it actually surprised Don Feer when he took over the NHL Players Association about how passionate the players wanted to play. He kind of misjudged on that one. So, yeah, I'm liking that kind of angle, whether it was the Summit Series, the Canada Cup, the World Cup.

You know, we had those along the way. Let's get back, because international play always the top of my mind as far as memories go. We had Commissioner Bill Daly on, and I asked him a little bit about the Arizona situation. And as we heard in the press conference, the feeling was that they think that Arizona is finally going to get it right here in the next couple of weeks. Do you remember when Bob McCowan was talking about it every night, the Arizona submit? They talked about it more than Toronto. Yeah. And, by the way, I hope Bob's doing great.

Shout out to him in all seriousness. But him and John Shannon were on top of it. It was 20 years ago, wasn't it? It was a long time. Oh, my God. So we heard from new executive director Marty Walsh, who we haven't really heard too much, and there hasn't been much of a presence. But I thought he came out firing today with a quote that says he's extremely concerned and disappointed with ownership over the arena situation.

Because they're partners now. You know, the players are partners as far as revenues go. And it's like us sitting here and say we got 32 pizza joints, whatever. Kipper's Pizza. Soufrakis, please. Keep it current. And every year we're given the same report. Here's 31.

And store number 32. Yeah, but wait until they build a facility that's not an old photo hut. Remember those photo huts, right? Yes, I do. Well, yeah, we've got year eight, though. Hold on here. Whatever, we're paying common expenses and all that stuff. Let's get rid of 32 or move it somewhere else.

I like that. Because he's stating the obvious. For sure. What was fascinating in talking to him, he made a comment about how the U.S. market only has about 25 NHL teams right now. And that it felt like there's room for it to handle more. I'm curious to know how many they would go to. Like if you put it up to 30 and had a huge, I worry about the quality of the product is where I'm heading with that, Gord.

Well, so what city is he talking about? Houston? Everyone talks about Houston. He mentioned Cincinnati today. He mentioned Cincinnati today. He mentioned Cincinnati today. Did he mention Oklahoma? No, no. Omaha.

Omaha. Omaha? He did not, did he? What was I not listening? You were watching Peyton Manning, a video. But he did. He mentioned several locations. All I know is he threw out some names.

Several teams. Several U.S. markets. Cleveland's got a great lineage. It doesn't really matter anymore. That was so long ago. But, yeah, market. Cleveland's got a great lineage. It doesn't really matter anymore. That was so long ago. But, yeah, so. I mean, do you think that hockey could sustain three more teams in the league? Well, yes.

It's sustained going from 6 to 12. Sure. Right? Imagine going from 32 to 64. Like, really, that was kind of the equivalent. I know, you know, to fans back then, like, oh, my God, from 6 to 12. So, I'm happy with the number like it's now. I'd be happy with fewer.

Does it mean better hockey? We don't know. We assume it does. Seattle Crackit. What do they have? Three third lines? Four third lines? Their best player might be Jared McCann, their best scorer.

He said, like, our best attribute is we have four second lines. It's like, it's four third lines. They've got one of the most expensive tickets. People are paying. It's a business, I guess. Well, it's what the market will bear. Okay, so to Justin's point. Except when it comes to cost.

To Justin's point, if they are focusing on markets in the U.S., how disappointed should people be in Canada, or is it just a realistic thing that there's no growth here moving forward? Well, what is Quebec? The perception was they have the Chipman-type guy or they have whoever with the money, and so they should be disappointed because they have a venue. I don't know if they have the money or not. You could easily put a second team here.

Easily. And that's always been the rumor. We've had a lot of discussions on that. We do know that Keith Pelley is going to be taking over MLSE as CEO, probably by April. Right. And do you see the dynamics changing amongst, say, Rodgers and Bell moving forward?

So when I got let go from the morning show, I was all about everything good. And it was a brief period. And I was told by somebody who I really liked that said, there's no future for sports radio anymore. Okay, that was the thing. I'm out. Keith Pelley's hired a month later. Sports radio's back.

Oh, no. You know, they were going to just do the McCowan show and everything else would be like, i don't know whatever so so yeah so keith is very pro sports and there is certainly a market for sports talk radio and everything else that's going so i probably you heard the rumor that bell and rogers have a deal in place because eventually they both want to have their own teams right like like they do with the jays and that okay whoever doesn't have the maple leafs will not have to pay indemnification, which is always a stickling point because indemnification is a number you're

supposed to negotiate. It could be whatever. I don't know if there's any truth to this or not, but you put a team across the street, you put in Kipper's Slovakia stands, one of them except the small one, the Phoenix Coyotes one, you know, whatever. And you got a second. Anaheim and L.A. have two teams. So anyway, those are the ones.

I'm not advocating expansion, but I'm saying, what the hell? Look at this place here. Look at downtown. Move it around. Look at all the people coming to this. It is. It's very exciting. You know, the realism, I guess, of that happening,

we had Sam McKee put out a Twitter poll. Would you jump ship as a Leafs fan if there were a second team? 27% of Leafs fans said they would leave for the new team. Sammy and his polls. How do you feel about those? Someone called them scabs on Twitter. So it does, you know what, he's really good on social media, and that's what it's all about now.

How could you make a judgment that you would leave it'd be the kind of thing like show me yeah like the new york islanders were an alternative about now they were you know far away but a real alternative and that they were a terrible team at the start and slowly grew and i don't know how many ranger fans said i left the rangers for the islanders or you cultivated new fans i mean that's really the second part is what you're looking to do because you like to think there's a market that's out there of fans that just would love an opportunity to get tickets that are maybe more affordable and, you know, more available. Listen, you grew up, JP, in the New York area.

Are we talking Yankees-Mets all over again with a second team in Toronto? And isn't that great? Yeah, I think so. That's the same idea, and it's perfect. It's actually more money for the Leafs because you generate that rivalry and interest, and you can sell them against each other. It's just a matter of, I've heard people say, location-based. Like, is it going to be in Hamilton, or is it going to be a true second team in Toronto?

Like, how does it actually look? Is it the 905ers versus the downtown? What does it look like matters to these people? Yeah, well, like the old Brooklyn Dodgers. I don't know. I just think you put it across the street. I think you can put it anywhere. Then it's up to, and you look at Vegas and Seattle about marketing nowadays,

I mean, how different it is to cultivate just something special and something that appeals, whatever it is. Do you believe in that unwritten rule around the NHL All-Star that teams weren't supposed to make trades because it upstages the All-Star weekend. And yet we've had four teams make trades, all from Canada.

With Monaghan going to Winnipeg and Lindholm, of course, ending up in Vancouver. So when I was with the New York Rangers, my brief time, we made the Bernie Nichols trade at the All-Star break for Tony Granato and Thomas Sandstrom. Now, Gary Bettman was not yet the commissioner. And actually, it was so long, it wasn't the NHL.

It was the only... We played the Toronto Shamrocks then. No, anyway. It was... But, yeah, it's sort of... I don't know this. I thought then the next thing was the playoffs. Don't make announcement, like, on playoff days.

Do off days. So, evident... Hey, but hey but you know kipper and justin like if you're the la kings you cannot waste one point like there's 16 teams will make the playoffs 25 are going to be pissed if they don't so nine will yeah and the la kings super for where they were so you figure the coaching is not doing it. You can't waste any time and make that move. So, Kippy, I don't know. Like I had heard that about it's a quote unwritten thing. But you know what?

Your own best self-interest comes first. And so how realistic is it now that Canada has cup contenders, like real chances at the Stanley Cup? And I don't know if you lump the Leafs in with that or not, but, I mean, boy. I do. Vancouver and Winnipeg look legit. I do. I think they probably had a better chance two years ago, in all honesty.

But I do. And then you beat those St. Louis Blues that one year you're the team that gets through. So Vancouver's a wonderful story. Edmonton, we knew. Winnipeg's a nice story. And, you know, Toronto can be, you know, when you least expect it, maybe, and all of a sudden come through. Well, just now the pressure of Toronto, because we know Vancouver is a team that's got high aspirations.

Winnipeg as well. They make moves. Calgary, we know what direction they're heading. It really just, Edmonton adds Corey Perry. Yeah. So, okay, what are the Leafs going to do? Okay, here's what they're going to do. Oh, good.

We got answers. Stand pat. Oh. No, no, okay. What are the Leafs going to do? Okay, here's what they're going to do. Oh, good. We've got answers. Stand pat. Oh. No, no, no. Nick Foligno, Ryan O'Reilly, you pay through the nose for that. No, there's no shining knight in white armor coming in on a white horse. These guys that I talked to today in the fan forums, they've got to lead and do it. Your free agents and your trade deadline deals were Max Domi and Tyler Bertuzzi.

One-year contracts. They're hired guns. They've got to come through more than the regular season, the playoffs. Stop waiting for it. Your free agents and your trade deadline deals were Max Domi and Tyler Bertuzzi. One-year contracts. They're hired guns. They've got to come through more than the regular season, the playoffs. Stop waiting for... Hey, it's like if we're having a party, and the party's not going to be fun until Sam comes. Well, then Sam comes, the party still sucks, right? We've got to get the party going ourselves.

It's not wait for the other guy to come. So that's it. Take him to the promised land. Add some depth on D, or whatever it may be. Add depth. Like Luke Shen, what a great kind of depth pickup last year. Those kind of things. What happens if we're ultimately not party guys? We're just going to go home early.

Oh, no. I see the parallels. Gord, I don't agree with you right now. Well, you think they should buy? Well, I just think that they have to do something to improve the club. I do think that it's a really good point that the additions they have made have underachieved to a level where you say, if they just give us what we thought they were going to give us, we're pretty good.

Yeah. How much equity do you have in draft picks anymore? You've given up like you won a Stanley Cup and you've won one round. So you can't keep doing it. I get it. Don't keep, you know, whatever. It does feel like being led to the slaughter, though. You're playing Florida in the first round with this group and no changes.

Well, then you better slaughter it good, then. Like, come on, come on, come on. So we were just discussing earlier in the show, Gord, that we still have about 30-plus games to go, but as we look at the standings here, and you made the example that LA can't lose one more point, but are they catching Edmonton? Are they catching Winnipeg?

Like, who are they going to bump out now? They're on the outside looking in. I love it, though. I love it. That's why the more compelling games, the game number 82, and not just who makes the playoffs, but also who comes first as far as that. So I love this helter-skelter type season. I don't know about the L.A. Kings. All I know right now, like you know, Kippy and Justin,

about when you got like Drew Dowdy and Kopitar squawking, right? And then Tom McClellan after kind of a week ago kind of almost thrown up the white flag. I'm not saying that's what he did, but that kind of exasperation and uh i'm never about advocating coaches getting fired but something is amiss and that's up to rob blake and luke robitaille that's what they got to try to figure out you know what's funny is i can't help but see parallels between the team you're just talking about la and pittsburgh where you have a couple older guys who are really good who you can't tell them you're not going for it you've got a coach who's been there for a long time. You're struggling to get where you're trying to get.

I mean, what's Pittsburgh do? Do they sell Gensel? Do they fire Sullivan? Or do they just do the thing where you just, I don't know, wait and see if it sorts itself out? Well, I mean, I take it they'll find out this year, I guess. I mean, it's because the equity they owe Sid and all those Stanley Cups. And he's the guy that believes it's still there. So the other owners did.

That's what they told Brian Burke and Ron Hextall when they hired him. The Fenway Group, the new owners, told Kyle Dubas about that, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, about the rebuild. We think we've got one more kick at it. A lot of people think the Jake Gensel situation will be a telling one, that if they sign him or not. But I don't think they have it. I think that they should be doing the retool, the rebuild. And, rebuild and you know sid can decide does he want to be a part of it i mean patrick

kane had reached a point where he wasn't a part of it in chicago so whatever i'm not worried about pittsburgh penguin fans getting upset if you say sydney crosby it's up to him but if you but i trade him to the you know but if they're on the downer maybe he wants a year or two somewhere else currently in the eastern conference of the Toronto Maple Leafs and Detroit hold the two wild card spots at 58 points. Pittsburgh at 51 with four games in hand on Detroit. So I don't see Pittsburgh missing the playoffs, guys. Oh, I don't know about that.

I don't know about that. You think it's not a given. It's not a given. I do think that what's fascinating for leafs fans and we talk about being led to the slaughter is if you luck into the metro division it's it's attainable top of that division you get the rangers who else is at the top of the metro carolina's getting there where they should be yeah yeah they probably rangers are hanging on right now carolina's coming on no but that's why Philadelphia was making hay and finally reality setting in.

You kept going, they can't be in the playoffs. They can't be in first place. Jones came on our show and he's like, it's not our year. Here's a question on Philadelphia with no Carter Hart there. Where is his cap the rest of the way? Does the league tell the Philadelphia Flyers that Carter Hart's cap remains on their salary structure? Or do they get relief? Monday will be the start of some answers.

There will be a lot of no comment. But on the hockey side, the business side, because it's not like you just realized it now, Kippy. I am curious about that very fact as well. And I know that's not diminishing the legal side, the allegations, whatever. I'm just saying the business side, yeah, he's the one that it's a big question. So tonight, skills contest. We've only got a few minutes left. I want to get your take on tonight.

Anything you're excited to watch for tonight? You've got the four Leafs in or two Leafs in events tonight, Matthews and three shooting ones. What have you got your eye on tonight? I've kind of been there, done that, you know, about it. So I'm just – but hasn't Connor McDavid got a super double dog dare top secret obstacle course or something? I haven't seen – yeah, I haven't even seen a map of what that looks like. No, but totally. But that's kind of where they go to the – like at the end, it's kind of like the final little kind of surprise.

So that one gives a bit of intrigue for me. My cousin George Kalinikos brought us souflakis we're going to eat before the show. We never got to them. No, where were they? It's actually a great irony that you're here and we have a fiesta. Yes, and I've got a fiesta, a souflaki fiesta for you. A Dante's fiesta. Not even a joke, though.

We do have that. We do, and I'm telling you right now, if there was a skills competition for the fastest guy to eat a souvlaki, I would win a million bucks tonight. I don't doubt it. I don't doubt it. But, that was before I knew you were going to join us and have a souvlaki

too. Yeah, I eat a lot, but I chew carefully. We'll get Bet365 to handicap us. By the way, last night, of course, we had a terrific night led by Kelly Chase and the 67 Toronto Maple Leafs.

Brian Troche also spoke. Hugely fan growing up. In his world growing up, it was all Montreal Canadian fans. So they were just spectacular. But I got a chance to hang out with Brother Bob. Yeah.

And let me tell you something. I'm shocked he didn't get into radio or TV because he is actually more engaging than you are. He's pretty introverted. How did that happen that you went that way and Brother Bob went the other way? Go figure. But he enjoyed it as well. We chatted with Dave Keon there, the late Eddie Shack's wife Norma, no, go figure. But he enjoyed it as well. And we chatted with Dave Keon there, Eddie Shaq's, the late Eddie Shaq's wife, Norma, Red Kelly's daughter.

It was great. But Bob said he had fun with you and Anne-Marie. Yes. He was in good form. Bob, yeah, Bob's a presence. He's a presence. And just one more thing. I've got to throw out again the work of Glenn Healy with the NHL alumni.

Absolutely. I've got to throw out again the work of Glenn Healy with the NHL alumni and how far it's really come in terms of the support that is out there for all the alumni now moving forward and the programs that he's put together, mental health issues. He's doing great things. Programs now and insurance. He's working on getting the guys health insurance as well. And he's got the respect of, like, Gary Bettman, Bill Daly, and that. Like, he does. He really does. And all of us

ex-players as well. Hey, thanks for dropping by, pal. Thank you, Kipper. Enjoy the skills competition tonight. Everybody here at Fanfare has been terrific. Sammy McKee, enjoy your night tonight, buddy. We're going to get my son in here for a picture with you guys

I'd love it Charlie come on buddy Charlie come on up alright enjoy your skills tonight thanks for watching and listening to the Real Kipper and Bourne show have a safe night everybody We'll see you next time.