Real Kyper & Bourne - The First Deadline Domino Falls

Episode Date: January 31, 2023

Justin Bourne and Sam McKee - filling in for Nick Kypreos - open with their reactions to Bo Horvat being traded from the Canucks to the Islanders, the established market price for someone of his caliber and what similar package the Leafs could piece together for a player like Timo Meier. They are joined by Leafs radio colour analyst Jim Ralph (22:41), who discusses the lack of energy in the Leafs' bottom six, signs of life for Morgan Rielly and reacts to Mitch Marner's bold fashion statement with his All-Star game skates. Then, JD Bunkis (42:34) breaks down the Leafs' trade chips' values following the Horvat trade, if Nick Robertson has any value right now and why the next two postseasons are crucial for John Tavares' Toronto legacy. Later, former Islanders defenceman, now-analyst Thomas Hickey (1:06:36) shares his insights on the lead-up to the Horvat trade,  if there's any concern about locking him up long term and how he will fit with the team.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. All right, everyone. Welcome to Real Kipper and Born. It's an exciting day today. Sam Cam all day long. Sammy, how are you, fella? Doing really well. Not as uncomfortable as I thought I would be sitting here with you, I guess, coming out from behind the glass. It's okay. I mean, I have hosted shows in the studio a lot of times.

Yes. So the lights are a little brighter with this show, like figuratively and kind of literally. A little different story between doing this and Sportsnet tonight. But yeah, I'm happy to be here. All our options were unavailable. So here i am you know and that's not even fair i feel like you should be option one from now on but yes no uh kipper kipper not feeling so great today so uh you're not going to get his hot take about the

the horvat trade until well tomorrow most likely yeah but um yeah that's the big news of the day beau horvat gets traded to the New York Islanders. My New York Islanders. And listen, I know, relief show. But got some ties. And what number is he going to wear? He's doing 14, my dad's old number. And I feel very guilty because when I first exclaimed that he was going to be wearing 14,

a guest that we have coming up later in the show, Thomas Hickey, who wore 14, I'm like, wasn't that Hickey's number? And you look at me and you're like, you idiot. Yeah, that's what everyone says when he wears 14. Wasn't that Thomas Hickey's number? Speaking of, we are going to be joined later in the show by Thomas Hickey, who, you know, former NHLer, almost 500 games. And he's an Islanders analyst for MSG.

We're going to be joined by J. by JD Bunkus at 345. Bunk's going to come in and chat about the Leafs, all things going on with them. And Jim Ralph is going to join us in like 20 minutes. Sounds good. So we got like a pretty good show. So we didn't get a chance to have any sort of reaction to the Horvat trade. Had the day to sort of process what's happened.

This is the only trade I've ever seen online where everyone has called where most people are like did both teams lose this trade yeah i don't know what's your uh initial thought i it reminded me at first blush of when they traded for pageau and when they traded for pageau and they were kind of out of it and it was sort of surprising that they did it and then they immediately signed him to a long term extension so that kind of reminded me of that but i thought it was a little weird like this is not to do with either side of the trade yeah but isn't a little weird they traded him before the all-star break this wasn't going to be there in five days yeah i got less he's your representative for your team i feel like lou lamorello could not care less but it's not on lou's side patrick couldn't be like hey lou you know the we're trying to grow the game i guess by

having this weird all-star game and yeah you know we're sending all these guys down there like could we maybe wait until next monday to announce his baby so he can have the weekend as a canuck representing us he's been a good captain for a long time true and lou i guess lou was just like i don't give a crap too bad now or never you think that must have been it i do wonder in you know one thing i was thinking of is like part of the reason someone asked um alvin about doing it now and do you think you would have got more at the deadline yeah he's healthy now yeah and like you don't know at the all-star game just another chance for him to not be healthy yeah and it's a major asset loss so i don't know if that's just the way these all-star games the only i think the worst thing

is gonna get is a sunburn might be his the worst injury yeah ir three or four days with a aloe vera i can see that but no that's that is a good point that like you know it seemed a little inconsiderate the but still they got what they got the return is you know it's interesting because bevillier was a guy that a lot of people myself included loved when islanders had him early going and still really fun player to watch really fast really skilled but he makes four plus and he's on pace to not get 20 goals again 25 so reclamation for the the canucks uh atu ratu is hell of a handle it is like that's a superstar name i heard him say it and he it's all like one word and he really hits the double a and there's a u at the end so it's atu ratu oh so if you like yeah i was gonna say if

you were like a stud in europe i guarantee they'd have a chant at his home barn for that guy like they'd be clapping and singing for it's too perfect it's great it doesn't get handled so he's a nice prospect for them but i think if you're the islanders you know what's he going to top out as sort of a second third line guy bo horvath's definitely a second arguably a first line guy you know and if you can sign him for another eight years or whatever contract you like i don't know would you like it for the canucks i think you're right saying that both teams kind of lost it but i also think that listen i'm not going to sit here and say that the canucks have been well run over the past three months. I'd probably look like my first time in front of the glass.

I'm saying that. I'm not going to be that guy. I think this must have been close to the best offer out there. I think it's more of a buyer's market. There's a lot of kind of crappy teams. If you look at it, the Eastern Conference, there's three teams kind of at the bottom that can make it. You look at the West, there's not a lot of great teams. There's a lot of teams trying to get rid of their guys for

sort of high value here and i mean not to bring it back to the leaf but seeing this this trade get made it does give me a little bit of hope that maybe they can get an impact guy without having to deal in uh matthew nice yeah like maybe it'll be one of the guys that you know the gold bucket boys over in finland you know a topi eroni and one of those guys that, you know, the gold bucket boys over in Finland, you know, a topi or one of those guys, it's going to be the guy that may be a centerpiece. So I thought from that perspective, I was surprised, but to get a first round pick, so it's protected this year. So it's protected this year.

That's right. So top 12 protected pick this year. So if they fall inside that the Islanders keep it, and then the next year would be an unprotected pick. So if you're from a Canucks fan perspective, if you're looking at the long game here, you're hoping to how that goes over to 2024, right? I was thinking that too,

but Lou does not seem willing to just go. They are not going to just go down and try to lose. So let's say this year they finish in that bottom 12. It would have been a top 12 pick, and they keep it. Are you sure they're going to be that low the next year? Or do you think Lou's going to trade away more assets to try to climb the standings? Yeah. So I don't know.

This is kind of a hard conversation to have. But how much of this is about his age? I think it's a fair question. And wanting to see his team win. Yeah. And yeah, that's great. And like his legacy and his future employment with the islanders you know i've had conversations with people in long island they're like listen you

know ownership doesn't love some of these decisions the cupboards are kind of bare this will be the fourth straight year potentially that the islanders won't have a first round pick you know that's that's a lot of years in a row crushing that you know that could hurt you down the road so yeah there is some self-preservation and also some you know instant results going on here that are interesting but again horvath's 27 yeah and so if they keep them it changes the entire tenor of the conversation to me and he's you know you look at the best teams who win cups to have that one two punch down the middle if you're barzal horvat brock nelson casey sezikis yeah it's not terrible

you're pretty good yeah so from the canucks perspective it i'm surprised that they wanted a guy back that has any sort of money at all like we talked about their cup their cap issues maybe they needed to do this because they they retained a little bit of it too didn't you know i think yeah they did i think the way to look at that is like the islanders needed to do it to get horvat yes so it's like really they're trying it's like raw two and a pick and maybe could the canucks flip bevillier yeah that's potential but just to me i would not be trying to trade for anybody that could potentially make me like even half decent yeah right i guess he's having a sort of a down year this year not a lot of positive things said about bevillier i don't think out of the islanders

camp it's always a my favorite thing to do when a trade is made is go to the twitter account of the team that makes the trade and see what fans are saying. For example, this is way out of left field, but the Jays signed Chad Green today, who was a reliever for the New York Yankees, who's always kind of been a thorn in the side of the Jays and a guy that's like... Strikes out a lot of guys, right? And I went to the mentions of the tweet, the guy who broke it,

and all the Yankees fans are like, no, no. And I'm like, okay, good. And I went and I looked at the Islanders one. They're like, oh my God. Like, thank God. Like, there's a lot of like, you know. When you're cap strap, he would be their Kerfoot. Yes.

You know, and you mentioned that as like, you know, if that's their trade, so Kerfoot's him. Yes. And then, you know, is it Roney or Topi or, you know, and not Nyes? Yeah. You know, is there a way to make that? It's actually like, is Robertson worth more or less than the Roneys and Topis? By the way, Roney, Hervinen, and Topi Niemela are, you know, two higher-end prospects of the Leafs.

It's hard for me to say that. Like, I don't want to kick a guy while he's literally down, but it's hard for me to picture that Nick Robertson has much value at all. I know. Right? Yeah. Like, what? Everyone wants to see him come back and play before they trade anything. And even when he did have a run of games this year,

like, he had an awesome first game where he scored scored two goals including the overtime winner against his brother and everybody's like oh my god he's different and then he was kind of the same guy for a month and then he got hurt again which is like you know it's unlucky it is a smaller guy it's what happens but i can't picture him being the centerpiece of anything like what team like is gonna covet him no you're right he doesn't get traded the deadline because there's no way to estimate his value which and it feels like we'll be having this conversation again next year at next year's deadline i know you're like is this the guy that maybe you know like is he gonna be in the league or i don't know i don't know with him we've had a lot of conversations about nick robertson and i think that the unknown of topey and roney would probably be a little bit more enticing than the

somewhat known of nick robertson it is oh one thing before we move on from horvat that i wanted to suggest there's re here's a roundabout theory of why this is good for the leafs so the islanders are currently two points out of a playoff spot they just added bull horvat let's say they get in as the eighth seed who do they get boston okay the island the islanders are built for playoffs yes they are a hundred percent like they may not get into the rate of playoffs because they're so built for it like they don't have high flying guys who just score goals so in the first round the boston bruins could conceivably be handed a very tough islanders team a lot of veteran guys that just

added bo horvath who's one of the best goaltenders in the nhl if anyone is going to make life hard for a team to get through a round, it's the Islanders. Yeah, I think I would prefer them playing the Islanders to like Buffalo or Pittsburgh or Florida or any of those teams. I think like, and they've had success in the playoffs with generally this

core. Yes. They've gone to the conference finals twice in the last four years. So I don't mind that point. And also that is good good they didn't give horvat to the bruins or the lightning right which was something that i always thought like i know that the light he felt like he was gonna be a bruin from 100 the jump this year and the lightning have no money but they would somehow figure out how to give him the money and he would get under the cap they would use their fake cap that they have it just doesn't exist it's like for them it's different so i i think that's a big win in this is that the two of the leafs

big rivals didn't get horvat at you know before the deadline unless lou flips him again yeah well that's see that's the other option here is you know if he doesn't resign in the next three weeks and the team has not shown signs of improving, they're falling out of the playoff race, they got to flip him. It's like he can either help them make the playoffs and not flip him. He can re-sign and not flip him. He can help them and make the playoffs. But if they're bad and he doesn't re-sign,

he might still go to the Bruins. Yeah. But I love the idea that the Islanders beat up the Bruins a bit, make life hell on them. Maybe the Leafs get the Islanders in round two. No? Well, listen, not to go too far down the Bruins a bit, make life hell on them. Maybe the Leafs get the Islanders in round two. Well, listen, not to go too far down the Bruins road, but the President's Trophy curse thing is real.

You think so? It is. Like, teams don't generally, like, I don't know if Derek can look it up, but when the last time a President's Trophy team won the Cup, it doesn't happen a ton. And, like, it's a thing for a reason. Like, you spend all this sort of, you win all the stuff in the regular season. Like, look what happened to Tampa.

You're geared up, geared up. You're in the middle of the year. And then it's like you're kind of just playing cruise hockey until the end. Yeah. And how many times does that team come in at the bottom that's won? Kings did it twice. Yes. The Blues did it.

Teams that get hot and they're playing playoff hockey and they come in and they play a team that's cruise there. Like, I understand the recipe. Yeah. It's hard to picture the Bruins being that team because of how good they are, but the recipe is there. Dan Shaughnessy in Boston wrote an article talking about that. About the Bruins? Dan Shaughnessy's paying attention

to the Bruins? He writes an article and he wrote an article after they lost two or three games in a row being like, oh, it's happening. It's hard to keep the presence. Can't keep anyone happy. You know what? Sorry.

So the last team to do that is the Chicago Blackhawks in 12-13. That long ago. 10 years. Yes. 0-7, 0-8 was the Red Wings. But I have looked at this before. If you win the president's trophy, it's usually a precursor to within the next two or three years. Okay.

But still, when you win it. And so there you go. That's the Caps. The C okay but still when you win it and so there you go that's the caps the caps used to win and then in 13 14 uh were president's trophy winners the capitals wanted it or were the trophy winners in 16 and 17 they eventually won the cup like a few years later okay yeah the lightning in 18 brandeis new mckee by the way the avalanche in 2021 won it last year so all right thanks new mckee thank you but it's true though so like that's 10 years yeah since the team that's won the president's trophies won the cup so all right and wasn't was that a half year 2013 uh yes it was 2013 was a half year it was a half year because that's the year the least made the playoffs and lost the

bruins the first round and the least would not have made the playoffs in 82 games. They grinded to the end to make the playoffs. So anyways. All right. So all the positive things from the Horvat trade is we don't think the cost is going to be that expensive and that they're going to beat the Bruins in round one. How do we do?

Good. Don't you think it's a similar price for Meyer? Yes. Like it's got to be. Like I think if you're. I think Meyer actually has a less appealing future and that he has a qualifying offer so if you're a general manager looking to acquire meyer which is nice little rhyme you will be like hey beau horvat who has more goals than you is the captain of his team and does meyer play center even no he's a winger there you go

like bo's a center he's a captain he's you're not we're not giving you as much as the exactly scott i feel like there's probably mike greer the general manager of the san jose sharks a little sour about that trade yeah you know because it kind of it's always the first one that sort of sets the market and the first big guy to go and then kind of stuff trickles down from that you can't picture it being a bigger package for me than it was for Bo Horvat. No, that's a really good point. All right, so that is the Horvat trade. Leafs play in the Boston Bruins tomorrow night,

their last game before an eight-game break here. What are we going to talk about for those days? Any ideas? Well, isn't it like all-star related things? We're going to get a bunch of all-stars on the show. Oh, my God. Oh, man. Oh man. You give us suggestions in the YouTube chat, please.

What would you like us to talk about? What can we cover for a week of off games? But no, but they're talking. It's just not the Leafs. Oh, I guess we'll talk about hockey. I know. But every game we'll just do the, what does this mean for the Leafs chat?

Certainly we're not going to talk about Mitch Marner's skates. Oh my God. Is that, we saving that for the end of the day or should we have a chat right now okay i i watched some clips from practice this morning and it was like marner was playing around obviously practicing and every clip of him where he would like slow down every single guy on the team would just like come over to him and look at his skates and say something to him he took a beating this morning about his skates so they're white skates for the All-Star

game, which that's fun, right? Do you let people do what they want? White skates are pretty tally. It's bold. Yes, it is. But they're white and pink with a big chunk of pink on the back, and the picture on it is his dog, Zeus, riding a shark. Which is riding an alligator. Which is riding an alligator. Yes.

So, that's... It's got some Sharknado vibes to it like i i just i love like the custom skates and when guys like take cool risks and like they do like matthew's been doing it for the whole time he's been here he's wearing the old school tags right he's got the christmas theme ones yeah a little subtlety it goes a long way like you could have your dog zeus maybe a little pink but like to make them what like the last guy that wears skates is flashy was those nike sergey federov but those were cool yeah you're sergey federov yeah coolest hockey style of all time

fastest guy in the league you're yeah i just don't know if bitch barter wants the smoke of wearing these dolls our weekend well there is smoke that comes with it absolutely and if yeah putting a dog on there yeah that's my last thought i wish kipper was here because kipper would be so conflicted by loving mitch marner and not liking the state like if matthews wore those skates kipper would have a field day but if marner did he might have a harder time going to town on him all right all right so we got a few more minutes so we get to jim ralph we'll Ralph. We'll listen to a couple of clips here from our boy Sheldon Keefe. Wayne Simmons is in.

Yeah, again. Tomorrow night against the Boston Bruins. Two straight games, three of the last four. How do you feel about that? I would love to hear what Sheldon Keefe has to say about it and talk about it after. Let's do that. Yeah, you know, when I looked at our game in Ottawa,

one of the things that I didn't like in that game is I thought we were at a time when things weren't going well. I thought that we were real quiet in that game, both in our performance and on our bench. And that's something that Simmer brings. He livens the group. And I really liked what he brought in that sense on the bench and such the other night.

And I thought he and his line did a good job for us. And I thought he brought something very similar when we played out in Boston. So, you know, for that reason, you know, you want to keep him involved. And you know that he's an important guy, despite the fact that he hasn't played a lot. And what he brings is unique. And it's nice to have. That, to me, is some statement about what he thinks the team needs. Yeah.

Because to your point, and not to steal your point here but before the show you mentioned like this is a guy they took his stall away before the season he was not part of the plan right he was gone he was waved like this and so now they're like yeah we've seen our needs and you know he brings energy and talks and toughness and energy and all the stuff that simmons has that they obviously feel they're so badly lacking that they have changed plans to include him. So I think, I mean, not to get too tinfoil hat, but the fact that he's played in a run of games here now

is probably a message to his buddy Kyle. That's what I think too. Being like, hey man, we need a guy that is like this, but better. Like a guy that's loud, you you know not afraid to have some clout ability to lead can talk to these guys can keep because you never want to hear that your team is a quiet bench no quiet bench is not a good thing god you're in those tough moments and everyone's just sitting there and you feel the building coming down on you like no you need somebody who's gonna like stand up there and be like hey man, man. And I guess Simmons has a clout.

He's been in the league a long time. He can say whatever he wants, even if he's playing six minutes a night because he's Wayne Simmons. Yes, he's had a great career. He's tough. Fight anybody. He's definitely the type of guy that they'll listen to. So to me, I hate him saying that against your quote-unquote rival from your province. Right.

I just hate him saying they're quiet. And that sticks with me. just went away yeah you know i did note earlier on a show yesterday i think that like a few teams right now seem to just be going away games start to get away from them they're like it's mid-season there's not that same push but yeah i mean i do like the idea of playing the bruins it's in boston no it's in toronto it's in toronto yeah okay but just just being able to have someone knowing you know watching that boston tampa bay game seeing those guys go toe-to-toe having someone to be like okay if we need that we have it but yes i would say in the next month i would say book it they the leafs end up with someone like that like another uh like a better way in simmons basically yeah and like i you know they they had clifford for a reason Clifford a little too old and took a penalty or two they didn't like in the postseason

I have never been more mad than when he buried that guy I don't even know why I was mad because I believed in him I truly did I was like you know I think this guy has a good sense of when it's time and when it isn't and you know he wants to be an energy guy and be impactful. And the worst part is that that, like, spurned them on to one of their most convincing victories ever because they killed off that penalty and the building was nuts. And they won where they went five or six nothing in the first game against Tampa. But when he first did that,

I was legitimately stomping around my living room. I was like, how could you do that? Just stewing. And he's been, you know, in the minors most this year now. It's actually interesting that McMahon is down. You know, I kind of thought he was making a case here. You know my thoughts. He's one of the dudes.

He's a guy. He's the dudes. Like, the dude versus dudes. Just all these guys that just kind of rotate in and out. I'm going to say the thing again, which is that if he fought a couple times and they'd be like, oh, he can be Simmons for us. Yes. It would mean the world and i don't he's never been that no he never will no he i think he's a college before you know

was a college kid and whatever that's not the type of play player he is but they're looking for someone who will go to someone and say you know do something about it and that's that's not mcmahon so aston reese holmberg and simmons um on the fourth line that is the ultimate just what do we got what's left soup throw it in the pot yeah see what happens but i you know i just look at this bottom six and you look at curve foot again in the second line and you know i talked about this with anthony petrelli on friday with on leaf stock and it's like god would God, take Matthews for granted. You know, like we talk about it, like we nitpick his game.

We talk about, oh, he's having a down year. And he's only scored 25 goals. He's only on pace for a 50-goal season again. And, you know, you look at them without him. They miss him offensively, clearly. Yeah. But they miss him defensively almost just as much. Like, that game against the Sens, they couldn't get

the puck out of their own zone at all from the forward. So it's just something that's just please don't leave. I know. Take for granted the whole thing. Oh, we are joined by Jim Ralph. Ralphie, I got bad news, man. It's no Kipper today.

You're stuck with Sammy and I. I broke the news to him already. Oh, man. Yeah. I did check the contract. I'm not supposed to be on. Listen, we'll double your fee for the day, okay? What's two times zero? Not my goals against average.

You know that. We appreciate you joining us. I'll just get you in on the conversation sam and i were just having um wayne simmons is going to be on the toronto maple leafs fourth line against boston tomorrow night uh third game and and four for the leafs it's it's interesting his coach said that you know he brings an energy and stuff that i thought we lacked against ottawa what he is simmons a guy that is working his way back into the rotation, a guy that could be a part of this going forward? Yeah, you know, I thought he actually had some jump, you know,

for the game against Washington. And, you know, I think it's good. Obviously, you get Matthews back and you have to reshuffle things again. But, you know, I do think you like that element. You know, I think he's got to be careful. And we saw when Kyle Clifford was around as well, not to cross that line because like it or not, you've got a reputation and the officials are watching.

He did take a penalty in the third period. And those are the ones that I think you've really got to be careful with. I know you want to make an impact on a game and you want to show that you're there and some toughness, but there's that fine line between being tough and crossing the line and crossing your team with penalties. But as far as the game against Washington, I thought he did bring some energy and had some jump and made some plays.

So, Ralph, do you think they need to add some more of his element in the bottom six? Like, is that something that you're coveting if you're Dubas before the deadline? Yeah, I mean, that's, again, Sammy, like, look around the league and you say, okay, so who? You know? Right.

And you want a guy that can play. You know, and then we saw, you know, Sheldon Keefe switched his tune pretty early in the series against Tampa last year. Or, you know, Clifford and Simmons are both in the lineup early, and then, you know, not again the rest of the way. So, I don't know if it's your top priority right now, but I think, you know, just about everybody's

wish list at the trade deadline seems to be the same, whether it's depth scoring or you know bottom six toughness or you know a defenseman that can move the puck everybody seems to be looking for the same thing ralphie i know you're a pro morgan riley guy at least i believe you are and i thought he's looked pretty good the last couple games are there some signs of life here the leafs are getting their proper number one back? Yeah, and I think maybe the good thing is getting the goal. Even though that's not what you want in a Morgan Riley, where you want him to score 20 goals again like he did early in his career.

But it's almost, you know, some guys just seem to have their confidence tied to their point totals. And Morgan Riley may be one of those guys. But I also think it was good to get T.J. Brody back. I think he led the team at ice time, if I'm not sure, in the Washington game. So, you know, Riley's a part of it. But I think getting T.J. Brody back and getting that, you know, what looks to be their favorite six in regular rotations as a benefit.

But, yeah, I think there's been signs that, well, not just Riley, but I think they only gave up, what, five shots in the third period against Washington, which is what they were doing when they went on that, you know, that 16-17 game run. So I think Riley's obviously a big part of that, but I think everybody's sort of clamped down and, and TJ Brody's return has helped everybody as well. Well,

I think you got to give credit to Sheldon Keefe, Ralphie for how little his top guys have actually played together and how much he's actually patched this. What was it yesterday? We were talking about seven games that he's had like his quote unquote, six guys together. Right. It's not an unbelievable job patching this together and kind of managing

everybody's minutes so that they look the way they do. Yeah, now does that include Jake Muzzin's hammock? No, it doesn't include Jake Muzzin. So there you go. Even more of a point. When you go back to the start of the year, you're going, yeah, it's funny how the...

I think he gives Sheldon Keefe a lot of credit. Even the game, what was it, I guess, Winnipeg, where he went to Marner and Matthews together again and it worked right away. So, yeah, I think you give Sheldon Keefe a lot of credit for, you know, preaching the system. And I think when you look at teams like Boston or Tampa,

they have injuries and everything seems to be plug and play. They just bring somebody up, you plug them into the system and they contribute. And I think that's what you like that the Leafs were able to do plug and play. They just bring somebody up, you plug them into the system, and they contribute. And I think that's what you like that the Leafs were able to do during that stretch. And now, you know, they've got to do it without Austin Matthews. But I think, you know,

whether you want to call it systems or strategies or whatever, Sheldon Keefe really has something solid in place for them. You know, how do you think they're affected, Ralphie, the rest of the season that there isn't some hotly contested race to sell them on before the game hey you know like dude we got to catch boston or you know look out here comes florida you know you're almost looking for reasons to be motivated and i know that sounds silly in professional sports but there's no doubt it's harder when there's not some like imminent gold to chase down is it not yeah um you know arizona and anaheim are probably going through that too though bernie

true true although they they might be chasing something a little different that's out of their control right but it's uh no i know i you know it's the old adage that uh if you're looking for a reason to play then uh just think of what you do every two weeks on a Friday when you get that direct deposit. That should be your motivation enough. I understand what you're saying, but we've seen it before where teams get into a slide and can't get out of it before the postseason. Then all of a sudden you find yourself in a wild card spot.

I remember years ago in the um the leafs and i remember exactly where we were because we we went out after uh for dinner it was a game in los angeles and i think the leafs were 13 points into a playoff spot at that point and um you know we were out with the coaching staff and they were talking about who they were going to catch and and I don't know if you remember, they had that night. It was 1-12 and one finish, and they ended up making the playoffs or missing the playoffs. So, I mean, you've always got to guard against, you know, that kind of failure and be on the wrong end of a story

that is great for somebody else. So, I always, maybe that's my minor league mentality, where you're always looking for the worst or fearing the worst i'm with you but i always remember that and that that was the you remember the randy carlisle james reimer was just okay um you know that was during that stretch where they were they were just horrible dumb stretch and and missed the playoff so i think that's you're looking for motivation's, you know, sometimes fear can be the best motivator as well. No, I think that's fair. And I'm sure Keith's probably preaching that.

Like, nothing's settled here. Like, every day he probably has to go in there and say that because, you know, it's pretty much clear that they're going to be playing the lightning. So you have to probably come up with different sort of motivational factors to give to them to be like, hey, we're not settled, even though probably all of them know they are. Yeah, and, you know, even though probably all of them know they are. Yeah, and you know, even

though they've lost to Montreal at home, Tampa at home, Columbus, technically a home game because it's in their building. I still think you'd rather, when it comes down to it, have that extra game on home ice.

So I think that's probably a harder sell. I think it's probably easier to sell Conor Bogart on Anaheim. Same boys. Let's try to be really bad so we can get guys better than you to come play here next year. That's the ultimate motivator

right there, isn't it? That's a tough sales pitch to make. We had David Amber, who obviously knows his stuff, motivator right there isn't it yeah that's a tough sales pitch to make and we we had david amber um who you know obviously knows his stuff suggest a tournament to play off for the topic which is an interesting you know it's a conflict for some of these guys so i do get why uh you know it's a tough spot for the bottom guys yeah um and by the way i was big david amber's big break he interviewed me when he was working at Sault Ste. Marie. He interviewed me.

And then it's, well, look at him now. You put him over the top, Ralphie. I'm not surprised to hear that. You know, looking at the Leafs' all-star break here, they actually get to step away a little bit. Samsonov goes in playing a bajillion games in a row. How

worried are you about Matt Murray? And could it be a situation where the Leafs eventually have to do something else? They got a month leading up to trade deadline, but you want to be sure you got a second goalie. Yeah. But you know what? That's, you know, if Joe Wall is going to get the opportunity, I think that's the silver lining, right?

True. And that's, you know, Lilligren and Sandin because the injuries have been able to establish themselves. So I look at it more that way, that Joe Wall could come up and go on and run himself. I mean, you never want to see anybody go down with an injury, especially a goaltender. But if you had to pick a time,

Samsonov was starting to establish himself as the number one guy before the Murray injury. So if you had to pick a time, it was probably the best time for it to happen and with the week off coming up as well. So I just want to ask you before we let you go, Ralph, about John Tavares, who played his 1,000th game on Sunday against the Caps. How would you define his time here with the Leafs so far? I guess it's an unfinished story, but what would you say,

how's it been so far? Well, I think his 714th game is probably the most memorable to me. Is that a joke, Ralphie? Is that his first one here? I'm glad. I always find, Ralphie, you make it sound like you know what you're talking about a lot of people just buy it you call this bluff i've spent way too much time with ralphie for to know that like we've spent too much time in the press box together to know that that was a joke yeah i think that

would have been a great interview question uh following game. I'd like you knew what special game he had on his 714th game, if the player could remember. I mean, I think he's been solid, but, you know, he's like everybody. You're not going to be judged on, you know, a 40-plus goal season or, you know, a point-of-game pace during the regular season. He's in that big group now where it's April that's going to matter. So even though he's been a big part during the regular season he's he's in that big group now where it's april that's going to matter so um even though he's been a big part of the regular season success um you want his story and his really his legacy to be what um hopefully he can do with the leaps

in the postseason ralphie have you seen mitch marner skates yet for the all-star game uh yes um did d how do you feel about uh pink skates with a dog riding a shark riding an alligator yeah okay well um i was surprised i think it's fine it's uh it's uh i don't know what company that is it's uh the sponsoring of skates but it would be a hell of a name for a company, wouldn't it? It's a long name. How would those skates have gone over in Springfield in 82? You mean the old tube skates?

Yeah, they would have. You would have had to paint them by hand. They would have looked great then. Oh, I love it. Sammy, we didn't even have colored pads back then they were the old dirty browns best look anyway

alright Ralphie we appreciate your time as always man thanks for joining us enjoy the all star break have fun in Cabo Ralphie please say hi to Kipper for me I took pictures of him on the Jumbotron when he was given away to Jersey the other day what an honor to see him in person, huh?

Yeah. Remember he said hi to me in an elevator a few years ago and that meant a lot. He's always looking out for the little people. Alright. Thanks, Ralphie. See you, buddy. Have a good one. You sit by Ralphie in the

press box? Oh, yeah. I spent three years as the Leafs least pre and post game producer so we spent a lot of time together ralphie got jokes holy hell yeah oh yeah ralphie's son is a literal stand-up comedian and i he's a chip off the old block yeah maybe some of the jokes wouldn't tell on air but really good stuff and like he you know not to get too much into it but i took a bullet for that guy i love love that guy. He's been incredible to me throughout my whole, you know, career up there. And we saw some wild games together. Yeah.

You know, like I was there for three years, there for half the games every year. Were you there for all the playoff games? Not all of them, but I was there for a few playoff games. The craziest game I've ever been to in any sporting event was the david ayers game oh you're at that game yeah yeah it was disgusted yeah it was disgusting it was disgusting i felt like you just knew how that was gonna go because in hockey and not to redo the airs game but when the other team is good and doesn't want you to get shots it can it's not as easy as just shoot it yes you know let alone or just generate a good it can it's not as easy as just shoot it yes you know

let alone or just generate a good clean look it's like you spend the whole game trying to do that and it was like one second into the game in the the time he was on the ice and john devars like beat him five right from like a step inside the blue line i'm like oh my god and then i think that's maybe he was bunkus we'll ask when he comes on but he had like the worst gambling beat of his life because he put like so much money on the Leafs when they were down, were they down six, three or whatever. Right.

And they didn't come back. So that, that was a crazy one. I've seen, so it was really cool doing that job. Yeah. I saw a lot of games. So I got to see Ovi,

Sid, David, like I've seen all the greats. So it's cool. It's really cool. There is something unique to being, you know, being a fan.

So when I was with the Marlies, we played in five playoff rounds and i'm the guy like up above in the press box like tagging events on the road and so and you know the feeling of being invested with a team when you physically can't control anything and it's a sickening feeling absolutely and i've heard this expression that the farther you are from the ice, the harder it is. So if you're a player, it's hard. You don't even think about it. Well, yeah, but you can control. Yes.

You can channel your energy. You're literally part of the game. Right. You can channel your energy somewhere. As a coach, you're a little more stressed, but you can actually put out guys and be involved in whatever. If you're a manager, it's sickening. Horrible.

But if you see something, you could send a text to the coach or hey send this down or whatever you could have some say video coach no chance fan it feels the worst of anyone yeah you just have no input on what's about to happen to your emotional state so true and being in the press box too i got i sat with like above with ralphie and bonesy so yeah I could still mix in a little fist bump here and there. And in the playoff game last year against Tampa that we went to, I think it was game two they lost. We were on the, like, actual press row. I was like, this is not for me.

I am not. Sitting on your hands. No, like, because the one I was like, oh. I was like, this is not. I do not belong here. I am supposed to be down here with those people, with the fans. I do think things are changing, though. Like, you know, Dangle is the ultimate fan.

Yeah, but he would never be in the press box, right? Yeah, I don't know. I bet she's been in there. Yeah, I mean, maybe. Yeah, but like, I don't know. There is sort of an evolution in like who people want to cover their teams. You know, we get crapped on when we're hard on the Leafs. Because people are like

don't talk about our team like that yes okay well we're doing analysis or we're doing analysis yeah you're gonna be caught in the middle a little bit sometimes before we get to bunk yes i want to hear this keith clip on the power play without austin matthews because i find this is one of the most fascinating things about the leafs so can we play that clip there love it it. Well, it's just, you know, we still have good players. You've got other guys out there and there's a structure in place that, you know, allows the puck to change hands and get to the net. And, you know, you see the goal that Bunce scored the other night. You know, it maybe has a little bit of a different look with the power play

when Austin comes out, but then you put another guy like Bunce in there. You have him in addition to John, two guys now that are hungry in the slot and around the net. So there's still some positive things there, and we saw some of that come out. And the fact when we used the five forwards, I think the fact that when Austin comes out, and we don't go to five forwards necessarily, but you get Buntz back involved, and he's had that experience now, and what he's taken out of playing with those guys with the five forwards, I think you see some of those benefits from it.

So is there a point to be made that putting the best five players on the ice, on the power play, is maybe not consistent with putting out the best power play. Yes. I think everything he said in there points to that. Yeah. To me, I think maybe in the playoffs you load it up when you need a big goal or whatever,

but throughout the regular season to me, you create the, you have a minute on and a minute off and you create like an internal competition where you have Marner and Tavares on one and Willie in. Have two units. I'm begging them to have two units. It is interesting that they haven't even attempted two units where they're just kind of doing a one power play thing.

Yeah. No, and, you know, I've asked a power play coach about would he rather have, you know, like the five most skilled players who just acting creatively out there, which to me would be hard for defenses. And that's kind of the Leafs. Right.

Or would you rather have guys that just stuck to what you're teaching them? You know, the power play meetings, they'll show you, okay, you're up here. We want to run it down there, get over here. And that should move them there. And he was like, I want the guys who will execute the plan.

And I have seen the plan executed and it works better than a bunchunt five freelancers not that the least are freelancers but there's something to be said for guys who stick to their role bunts will play in the crease but he'll be in the bumper he mentioned bunts what the three times in that clip by the way that's not saying matthew should be on the power play of course you need puck retrieval guys yeah like it can't all you need a guy that's gonna find a puck dig it out kind of ring it back to the point yeah you know you don't give it back to the players and go back and be the ground again they don't all have to be superstars yeah on it and i think sometimes they got three flank good flank guys it's a problem and i think they kind of get lost in what their role is. So it's four points better without Matthews in the games he's missed. It's 27% without him and 24% with him, like for his career.

Yeah. It's so weird. I think it's just a matter of not forcing it to any one place and keeping a free mind to whatever the best option is. They defer to him, which they should. Right, and he's a wonderful power play player, but... I would like there to be two units.

Today is the day, since Kipper's not here, you can put Marner in the second unit. I've been dying to say it all year long, but no, no, no. Okay, let's get to break. After the break, we're going to talk with JD Bunkus, and we'll pick up some more of the same stuff we'll see you in a few minutes breaking down the top stories in hockey and elliot friedman every day the jeff merrick show subscribe and download the show

on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Real Born and McKee and Bunkus now. We're joined by the great J.D. Bunkus. You there, man? I'm here. Hey, buddy. Did you know that Sam McKee was just tweeted by the Owen Sound attack

and referred to as Sam Alton, which I believe is his middle name? It is my middle name. No, it's his mom's name. It is. Well, it's my middle name. My name is Samuel Alton McKee and my initials spell my name,

Sam Alton McKee, S-A-M. Wait, your parents, that's actually your middle name is you took your mom's maiden name as your middle name? Well, my mom didn't change her name when she got married. Yeah, but that's not a middle name. That took your mom's maiden name as your middle name well my mom my mom didn't change her name when she got married so yeah but that's not a middle name that's a hyphen oh you want me to hyphen it like what is it it is a middle name born no that's not a middle name a

middle name is like a given middle name like you're just gave him the middle name no that's not what's happening here i refuse to have this no you No, you just have – that's your last name, Alton McKee. Okay. I'll live with that. You're right. I don't want you to offer me that. I just – well, it's crazy because – well, listen. That's one of my best friends ever for a long-ass time,

and I actually just always thought that what you did was just a move of respect because your mom is a powerhouse and a terrific lady no she didn't change her name and like well you do you see this a lot like i'm a child of divorce right i think born you as well and so oftentimes children of divorce will take the name of the parent they like more which is oftentimes the mother let's be honest here like and they attach it. They co-op the name. I didn't realize that was like your actual given birth name.

Of course. All right. While we're doing this, isn't your name Latvian? Isn't it Janice? Yeah, Janice David. Is it pronounced Janice? Yeah. How dare you?

That was rude. That was me. That was like, what? What do you mean? I came on here. You guys are late to break. You're like, you got three minutes to talk, and I'm going to call you Janice? Rude.

Let me start the segment by apologizing. No, no, no. Didn't? No, let's not go down that road. We have derailed before we started. You were listening to the three humans who do Leafs Talk. Oh, yeah. The post-game Leafs reaction podcast, which is taking the internet by storm.

It is. It's actually doing pretty well. Yeah, I love it. It's doing very well. And this is the time where you say, do you like this kind of banter? You can subscribe and you can leave five stars and that helps us out. Do you think after that conversation, it's a time to ask people to like us? Here's the thing.

A certain section of the audience could not hate this more. But we're kind of trying to key in on the people, the folk that get it, you know? The people that get it. Kipper's not here today. You don't get the Kipper stuff, okay? You're stuck with a bunch of this stuff. Yeah, exactly.

There you go. Yeah, exactly. Here's that's actually how I'm buoyed, is that the people who showed up for the the the haters of that yeah they were like the second they heard no nick today they were like i'm good i got other things today exactly time for steely dan oh i love steely dan so much yeah fair enough all right so let's talk about the toronto maple leafs uh there's a big trade i believe you're aware of this horvat goes to the canucks i came in today and chatted with sam and he goes you know i actually feel like that makes me encouraged about what it means for

the leafs in terms of the cost of what it's going to take for them to get someone. It wasn't everything to get one of the biggest names. And I understand he doesn't have a year after this, but how, you know, what was your instant? What does this mean for the Leafs reaction to the Horvat trade? I know that everybody who has, well, actually there were like a million different opinions on this trade, which I love because this is one of those things. Like I need to pull the Shaq meme

for the prospect that went the other way. Like, I'm sorry, young man, I'm not familiar with your game. I don't know you. You played 10 NHL games. My understanding is he slipped in the draft. He's one of those kind of like redraft candidates, which for my liking, that reeks of a Nick Robertson, right? A guy who was in the second round that some people thought could be in the first round,

who some shine is off of the player. So I went, okay, so if the Leafs were going to get in on a Timo Mayer trade, would it look something like their first round pick, Nick Robertson, and a middle six forward who has some speed but is kind of underwhelming at times? Sounds like Pierre Engvall. That sounds like the exact trade that the Leafs could put together for Meyer. If that's the trade package for him, you do that in a heartbeat, right? You don't even bat an eye.

You just do that immediately. I don't think it's fair to compare Robertson to – what's the name again? Atu Ratu. Atu Ratu, yeah. Why? You think he's better or worse i think i think there's more proven at an nhl level that nick robertson may not be a guy than sam thinks he's a non-entity as an injured player i don't i don't think that's not how i

feel about it and if you ask like you think he had value yes because i ask people about it all the time and they still consider him to be a b prospect here's the thing with robertson that like this is where we're too close to it, right? Because we watch every night and we have these expectations of the guy and all of this stuff. And it's like, okay, sure. But you have to think of, one, he's young, and there are certain qualities, right,

born that you just can't teach his shot. And so one organization is going to look at him and say, if we just play him enough times, he's going to score 20 goals. And that has value. And so his game is not going to be perfect him and say, if we just play him enough times, he's going to score 20 goals. And that has value. And so his game is not going to be perfect. And he's not, I think it's pretty clear at this point, we know he's not an A prospect or he's not someone that the Leafs, if they trade, it's going to come back to be an all time haunt move.

But yeah, I think if you're a team like the Sharks and you say we could get a young guy who's an American born player from California who might score 20 and has a wicked shot. Yeah, like you could talk yourself into that. I don't know why he would have less value than a guy who hasn't even proven at all that he can score at the NHL level. I don't know. Has Robertson proved he can score at an NHL level? I think if you give him a puck on a tee.

Yeah, or if you give him a puck in the slot. I got to say, no, but for real, I actually think Robertson is one of those perfect guys that if I was another organization, I would be trying to buy low on. Because you think about all the pressure that comes with this market. He works his ass off. He showed flashes in the preseason. That's more, again, I'm not as plugged in with the Islanders. So, Bourne, you know, maybe you can tell me if I'm wrong,

but Red 2 hasn't had those moments with the Islanders like he had as a preseason, right? Yeah, he had one this year. He doesn't have the AHL track record. But you know what it is, too, you know, for me is, you know, you hear people say this a lot, but the organization always knows on guys before the rest of the league, and I wonder how they feel about Ratu. You know, like if they saw him come up and play 10 games and Lou goes,

look, he's going to be Michael Del Cole or Josh Hosang or the next guy who's just we want to be a guy and isn't a guy. Yeah. You know, he might be that for them. I'm in favor of generally moving those guys when you're like, this is taking longer than we hoped. And all of a sudden you have your first thoughts of it may not happen at all. I think you're there with Robertson.

I hope you're right, Bob. Yeah. I hope you're right. But I have a hard time believing that any team's pro scout is going to come back to them and be like, this is the guy that we should center a package around. But I just said that it's a B-level prospect. Like, clearly, again, Nick Robertson has a clear, valuable NHL skill. That is the most coveted one, which is elite-level shot.

He has a shot that Austin Matthews looks at and goes, wow, look at that shot. That has value. No question. That's a thing. And so you gamble on traits like that. You gamble on upside like that across all sports, right? That's the quarterback with a massive arm, right?

You do it. That's a cornerback who can't cover, who can't read a coverage, but he can run a 4-3-40, and you go, boy, if we could just do this. And I think that will always have value around the league. And again, I remember speaking to Fuda about this, and he called him a B prospect. And if Mike Fuda, who is genuinely one of the most successful at scouting in the last, what, 15 years?

Some of the best amateur scouting that we've seen in the last 15 years. If he's calling him a B-level prospect, I'm taking that more than the Leafs fan base saying, this guy's a write-off and this guy stinks. I don't think he's a fit for this organization anymore. I think that he's clearly a guy that can be available in a trade. He's just, he's, like, Blake Murphy calls them redraft candidates, right? Guys who just have

skills but are not fitting an organization anymore. I think he's still that. Anyway, the point of this is, like, no, I don't think that the Sharks are leaping at it. I don't think that they're overly excited about it. I don't think that it necessarily puts you at the top of the pile. But if we're just using that trade as a framework for what a high velocity rental is i'm with you guys i think that's a price that you as a leaf fan can swallow because to me it's

basically like the pick who cares like any of the other prospects who cares there's one guy that i don't want them to touch and it's matthew nyes because they haven't hit on guys who can play in the top six who are young controllable forwards with his skill set yeah so to me it's like the only way you move him is if you're getting back a no doubt player who is on term and the other organization is potentially eating money like that's the starting point for that everything else i'm good with doesn't it seem now that that trade it's pretty clear that they probably won't have to give up nize to get one of the guys? Like, there's no way, like, they're looking at Ryan O'Reilly or, like, a Barbashev or, like, you know, a Taves or any of these guys.

The market has kind of been set here by this trade to me. Like, Bo Horvat was the best available kind of guy that we all talk about other than, like, Eric Carlson or whatever when the pie in the sky. Like, me and Borny talked about in the first block like i think bo horvat has more value than timo meyer does in terms of him being a center he's score more scored more meyer's also got a 10 million dollar qo which hurts it depends on what you want to do with bo horvat but like as a pure rental at this point i'd say he has more value so to me the market's kind of set with this the only thing is that i would say to you guys like we just did that trade first and robertson and engvall it's like well the thing we're not factoring into this is that pick the islanders could be giving up could be the 13th overall

pick in the draft that's not what the leafs pick is going to let that's a good point and we know the value between these picks and should the islanders end up bottoming out doesn't work out that pick rolls over vancouver has to be thinking hey we're we've got a pick of an islanders team that fell into the bottom 12 this year like maybe next year it's going to be a top 10 pick like there's real potential for that you're seeing the leafs without matthews still dummy the washington capitals who are a playoff team who are in that Like, you're acquiring the Leafs pick. You're hoping at best that it's the 25th, the 26th. You know what I mean?

Like, it's a late first. It's an early second. So, to me, it's like that's where the nice question comes up is, do the Leafs actually have any prospects? Like, Sam, if you don't think Robertson has any value, will our guy, like I mentioned this before, Nick Richard, who pours over all the teams. Topian Roni.

Well, yeah. The gold bucket boy. He still has that guy as number two. So it's like, what do the Leafs have, if anything, to get in these conversations? That's where it gets spooky. That's where you are in an organization that has to overpay because you can't get into conversation with anything else. All your assets, other assets kind of stink kind of feels like that's why sandin to me might end up being on the table is just simply because they don't have anybody to pull from in the prospect system yeah so it's it's you know you

guys have been watching the leafs in toronto for a long time now and you mentioned that they beat washington like going away without matthews you know what are some of the things that we take for granted with this team and its success? They win all the time. Yeah. And we come in here and we bury certain parts of the team. And they win. So what, during the years where they just couldn't beat anyone,

is it just the elite players? Because they win without those guys. Yeah, but they still have a bunch of other ones, man. Like, that's the thing. This is kind of the ghost of John Tavares conversation from yesterday with the a thousand games like not a lot of teams have john tavara's as their number two center appointed game player not a lot of teams have mitch marner as their team's second best player or maybe third best the way that william nylander's going right now like they just have such a luxury of top tier talent that i think during the regular season

and this is why it's like when we moan about them i still think it's fair because those guys have proven they can be awesome in the regular season but this organization is clearly at a point where hey um the sport is physical the sport does take bite the sport does take maintaining your level in big moments. And those guys haven't proven that there. And so until they do, like, I don't really care. And I don't think too many people do care about their ability to cruise through teams that clearly can't match their talent level in a regular season. It's when that talent, you know, doesn't matter as much, which I think is in those moments where those intangibles do show up, it's what makes this team so difficult to judge, and it's why people get out of each other's throats.

So I think that there is a little bit of jadedness of just how special the regular season top-tier talent is. But it's really hard to embrace it when all the chips are down. It hasn't been able to be the same yeah that's exactly it it's just the measured the the regular season success measured against the postseason success i think is the number one reason for the sort of resentment that people have towards it and listen i've convinced myself that guys are really good like for a long time like your top guys were kessel connery jvr like it's those guys are the what 50th best in the league? Even before that.

Like, you know, I had a lot of Nikolai Kuliman conversations and Mikhail Grabovsky conversations. And, you know, I, the Kuliman, Grabovsky, Clark, MacArthur line at one point. Was the highlight of our lives. Yeah. It was like, oh, this is the best that they've had in the post salary cap era. Like this beats the hell out of watching Jason Allison try desperately to skate with NHL players. It's so funny. With that era, today is – Bunk, I'm going to make you feel old.

Today is the 13-year anniversary of the Dion Phaneuf trade. I remember where I was. I do too. And it's like that's what we were convincing ourselves of. It's like, oh, my God, they got Dion Phaneuf. This is the greatest thing ever. That's the best trade they could ever make. And then, you know, he was the captain of the Leafs.

He was a pretty good player. Yeah. You know how it went with them. The trade doesn't get enough respect. No, it was an awesome trade. Well, let's read me the trade. Do you have it in front of you? I do.

I can do it without guarantee without the info. Yeah. Well, and that was the other thing was that the Leafs got Keith Olley in that, who became immediately the top Leafs prospect at the time, which made it even more of a good. But that actually speaks to Bourne's like the organization knows before you do, because, yeah, at that time, especially when we didn't have as much information about players, people got really, really, really excited. But like it was like Hagelin that went the other way as the premier player. It was Matt Stajan, Ian White, colleague Jamal Mayers, and Nicholas Hagelin. Hagelin, sorry. Yeah, Hagelin.

He had a little moment, Hagelin. He was a good player. Yeah, that's what I mean. He was the guy. And then for FNUF, Oli, and Freddie Sjostrom. Sjostrom. Sjostrom? Sjostrom?

Yeah, Sjostrom. No, that was a coup. That was a dynamite trade. It was Schustrom. Schustrom? Yeah, Schustrom. No, that was a coup. That was a dynamite trade. It was. It was. Burke doesn't get enough credit for that one. Burke's trades, yeah. Yeah, listen.

So going back to that conversation, the amount of time that I, like the amount of years I took off my life defending Dion FNUF is a lot. Yeah. Like, remember how I'm at? I used to defend him, Bunk. Like, early in our friendship, I was like, oh, he's miscast. He was miscast.

He's on the right situation. Well, you know, there's a fair point about Morgan Rielly to be made there, too. You know, the least generation of number twos is number one. That hit too hard. Sorry. No, well, here's the thing, though. This is kind of what frustrates me a little bit,

is, like, just because this organization hasn't had anything doesn't mean that you should just simply be like thrilled about regular season success to me there's actually something even more infuriating about this group than those other years we're talking about no but you'd rather have the potential you're playing towards hope yes no of course you'd rather have this there's no doubt in my mind that this is the thing that you would most want to have i'm just saying that from a frustration standpoint this this mirrors the frustration you had watching the leafs finish ninth where you would go this is the worst place you can be to me wasted talent right like when you guys get mad at someone do you get mad at the person at work

who's just like in way over their head and not capable like is that the person you get disappointed with i don't i go hey they're trying their best like they're doing their absolute darndest the person you get mad at is the student who has all the smarts in the world but won't apply themselves and and i've made this analogy a few times but that's kind of how it feels with these guys is like every year this washes away you get frustrated with things like the playoff format um the salary cap the hard cap you get frustrated with yeah and and it's just like it makes it feel worse because it feels like you're wasting something really special really unique potentially something you're going to only see once in a lifetime because that's the that's what's on the table here like that is the potential the hourglass

are running through here look at the bingo the contract exactly like you're the beast watching the petals fall off the flower going please so much is on the lot no it's true it's a great point you had a great take yesterday about how underappreciated john tavaris is here and like i think it's a true one but these net we've talked about this for a couple shows in a row here now and i haven't got your take yet on it bunk but these next two and a half years for john tavaris's legacy in toronto are so massive because if they don't have any success like listen if they go to a conference final with him as the captain he's still lauded like he'll be loved you know they won't be lost or he'll be loved throughout this city like it'll be a huge conversation about what a great leader he is but if they have one

round win in his next little bit here the legacy conversation with him is going to completely change versus what it would be if they went deep like Like, it's a huge swing time for him now. Yeah. I listened to you guys on Leafs Talk talk about it and Bourne referenced Ray Bourque, who is on my show tomorrow. Cool. But I also think that's actually wildly disrespectful to Ray Bourque Bourne because he was so much better than Tavares. Yeah, Ray Bourque is like one of the six best defensemen ever. Exactly.

It's just like I was looking at his resume in preparation for the interview today and going, oh, my God. I know. He shot in the net so much. Yeah, like why don't we talk about him just like once a week. Ray Bork has 1,579 points in 1,612 games, 410 goals. As a defenseman. Almost 1,200 assists.

Unbelievable career. It's funny because, like, yeah, weirdly we all think about him in Colorado, right? That's the first image that comes to mind. And it always will be because he won. But that's how powerful Cups are. You're right. It does change Tavares' legacy. That takes your whole Bruins career and you think about him in Colorado.

Yeah, I think about his Bruins career. I think about him in Colorado yeah I think about his Bruins career I think about stills like still images of him you know more than I think of highlights um and granted it was like a little bit before my time what what was that I don't know I didn't say anything I didn't say anything oh I heard like a noise I thought it was like Brandeo I was like what was that sorry i said mayday oh oh okay yeah yeah okay yeah i was like i'm not going crazy right you guys didn't hear anything like that was yeah anyway i just yes it would be massive for his legacy i would say this though is he's definitely i don't think he's under appreciated so much as i actually think he's flat out disrespected but he is just the like when i'm going to think about how the salary cap

impacted the way that we view players he will be that will be his legacy because it's like he's a point of game guy who came to toronto the thing that we dreamed about as leaf fans, as kids, as far back as Lindros for me, and I'm talking about like Lindros in his prime, not when he showed up back then. It was like every player you'd be rumored of, who's going to be the savior? Who's going to be the guy that's not afraid of the pressure of Toronto and is going to sign here and do all these things?

And he does it, right? He is the guy who does it. And you would think that automatically, that would just have his legacy set in stone, right? A in the wool number one point of game center who scores of like hellacious amount of goals scored 47 goals his first year here 47 47 and still it's like when people talk about them they go yeah but the money and you, what are you talking about? But it's like I can't blame fans for it because this hard cap has been the worst thing that could ever happen to the NHL. In the NBA, they have it.

You have bird rights. You can find your way around it. Your team can play into the luxury tax. In the NFL, you have non-guaranteed contracts. You can cut guys. You can restructure salaries. You can figure out creative ways to kind of keep your team together. In this league, in baseball, obviously no salary cap.

In the NHL, it's a nightmare. Like, even look at this Bo Horvat trade. Like, imagine this. Imagine having to be a Vancouver fan, watching him get traded, and going, huh. Or even being an Islanders fan, for that matter, where you get this trade where really you paid nothing. Like, okay, a first-round pick, maybe that turns out to be a good player.

But you've got someone who could score 50 goals this year. And the automatic reaction from so much of the fan base is, well, what's he going to get paid? Like, it's so, so bad. And it's such a horrific thing for all these players because the only way that you can be loved is to either take way below your market value or for the team to luck into you on a rookie contract. Like, it sucks. Don't worry.

Bettman was named the 2023 recipient of the Sports Business Journal Lifetime Achievement Award today. Yes, he's amazing. He's so great. Just ask him. Like, he ran a secret poll, and it said he's amazing. He's so great. Just ask him. Like, he ran a secret poll, and it said he's the most popular guy. Our fan research says that. They also said Boredads were sick.

Yeah, I know. All right. All right, Bunk. That's incredible. We got to get to break. Thanks so much for your time, buddy. Appreciate it. Thanks, Bunk.

Love you guys. Talk to you later. You too. All right. We're going to get to break here, and when we come back, we're going to talk with Thomas Hickey, former NHL and Islanders analyst for MSG. Diving deep into Leafs, Raptors, Jays, and NFL. The JD Bunk is podcast.

Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born. I am Justin Born here with Sammy McKee. Some big breaking NFL news. Is that right? That if we were in the States right now, this would be like we'd have to explode our show. Oh, no.

That the Broncos are finalizing a coach trade to send Sean Payton to the Broncos. So he's now going to send Sean Payton to the Broncos. So he's now going to be the head coach of the Broncos. A coach trade? Yeah. Wasn't he not coaching? Was he in New Orleans and then retired? Yeah, but he was still under contract,

and he went to Fox, and he was on Fox, and now they're going to trade him to the Denver Broncos. Imagine if you could trade NHL coaches. You probably can. Why not? They've done it at the NBA. Doc Rivers went for a first-round pick. I don't think you can. Honestly like we talk about hockey every day but that is massive news in the states that's going to be leading every single sports talk radio show

anyways just want to put that out there it's a big one uh brandale let me know when we got uh thomas and we'll uh yeah so oh we that we have right now perfect nice good stuff uh we are now joined by thomas hickey formal former nhlerer for the New York Islanders and Islanders analyst for MSG. Thomas, how are you doing? I'm doing good, guys. How about yourselves? We're doing great.

We appreciate you joining us today. Tell us, man, what's going on in Islanders land these days? Horvat has joined. Is everyone excited about this? Disappointed? What's the mood like around there? in Islanders land these days Horvat has joined is everyone excited about this disappointed what's the what's the mood like around there well it's it's extremely exciting you know obviously when there's something of this magnitude excitement's the first thing and then I think you know I speak for the players they're losing a really good guy and Anthony Bevilier, a kid that, you know, came in,

didn't really speak a lick of English. I was with him as his rookie year and really grew into, you know, not a good, just a good player, but a guy that's really beloved in that dressing room. So I think that's probably on the minds, but the big news from a fan's perspective, from an analyst's perspective is certainly getting Bo Hor Horvat in. I think this is a group that has struggled with injuries, struggled with scoring recently, and this is a shot in the arm for a group that sits right outside the playoff spot that needs to find a way to get in, find a way to score, find a way to add speed and get younger in a sense.

I know they traded away young guys, but Bo Horvat's a young guy with a lot of miles left on him. So I think it's a really exciting time to think about how you can further your playoff chances and adding Horvat. I mean, I think that's about as good as you can do. So what does that do for the room? Like you say, Beauvilliers is such a beloved guy, and you're trading him out.

You're bringing in like this impact guy. I guess it's sort of a wake-up call in a way, but you're losing a guy and then, you know, you have the new guy come in and what's people's relationship

toward him? Like what's the dynamic when a big trade like that happens with a beloved guy going out the other way? Well, I think a lot of times there's a bit of shock and at the same time, this is a group with extremely high expectations,

and not just internally, but I think coming into the year, a lot of these guys expected big things, and they're not in the spot they are now. And when that happens, these changes happen, and you're a professional, and you just have to go with it. As far as the dressing room dynamic, no, I don't think it's going to hurt one bit. You know, like I said, this is a business, guys. I've been through it before. Some guys get traded in places they love and some guys have to leave places and go to new spots.

So I don't think that there's any dressing room issues whatsoever, but probably a ton of excitement understanding that it's a business and you're you're losing a good guy but from everything i've heard you're you're also adding a quality quality guy and you know a guy that was a captain in the nhl at a very young age in a tough market so if anything i think it will it will add a new dynamic to that dressing room is there any fear about the future for the islanders like him not resigning or giving up you know they haven't had many firsts and you know rat ratu was a prospect that you know was kind of you know they had hopes for or is this just pure

okay that you know we're focused on this year um and you know not too worried about the cost it takes to get better i think that's exactly it. Obviously, you trade away a first, you trade away one of your top prospects, and Beauvilliers, as we talked about, the eye is clearly on this season, solely on this season. This team's built to win now, just the way contracts are structured and everything, and the expectations are to do now. So I think that is the primary focus.

Obviously, you lose those younger pieces. Who knows if Horvat's going to be part of the future? I would assume that there would be a push to get that done or an interest. I'm speaking on speculation of myself, not from anything that I know, but you look at Lou Lamorello giving up a first, second and third for JG Peugeot. And,

you know, he was signed right away. I I'd be interested to see if, if this is something that, that they try to get, maybe it takes a little bit of time, but you can certainly bet with the price that was paid and how highly they think of Horvat would be zero surprise at all if they wanted to keep him around long term.

So maybe that's something. And you've also got, you know, I'm sure Lou has thought this in very many directions. And if it's 30, which I don't know, you know, there's other ways that it can go as this season goes on. And I know there's not long until the deadline, but there's alternate plans you could make. But I think it was made with the intention of getting this team in the playoffs, a team that management really believes in, giving them that chance,

because they've proven once they get in that they can do big things. So I think the focus was strictly on what does it do to our team right now in the immediate future to help us get where we want to be. Yeah, that's a perfect segue into what I was going to ask you about, Thomas, is that this team, as presently constituted, like they came in here and they played the Leafs the other night and the Leafs played pretty well. It wasn't that close of a game.

But, you know, you look at this roster and it's one versus where I look at the guys that are on it, and you look at the goaltending, you look at the decor, they have tons of guys up front, and they now add Bo Horvat. It just really does feel like a team that maybe a little bit of an underachieving. If they get hot here, it's not a team that you want to see in the first round of the playoffs. They can play that playoff-style hockey that could give a top team a lot of trouble. Yeah, you're right.

And I think the challenge for the Islanders is getting there, getting into the playoffs. And I think that's a group that, you know, I've had a front-row seat watching them being part of the team going to back-to-back conference finals. Absolutely. That's a group that

looks and feels different once the puck drops in playoffs and you know it's been tough trying to piece it together and find the right combinations and everything in the regular season but i i think that's what this is in mind that this is a team that's proven they can do serious damage doesn't matter if they're underdogs, underachieving, overachieving. I believe that Lou Lamoureux is very proud of what that group can do if given the opportunity in the playoffs, and this is helping them get to that point. You know what? And like you mentioned, they do have skill.

They've got quality players up front. It hasn't clicked offensively. They've missed pieces. And then perhaps this buys you a little bit of time to get some other guys healthy that have missed a lot of time this season and really fills out your roster but as you mentioned the bedrock of this team is certainly not goal scoring it's goaltending which has been if you have Ilyas Roke in the net you've got a very good chance to win any game you've got a very good chance to win any game.

You've got a good chance, better than anyone in history, of seeing a shutout when he's in net, which is something he's recently done that people are talking about. But he gives his team a chance to win absolutely every night. And if you can add a goal, you can improve your power play every night by making an addition like this. You're just improving your chances so much in the short term. What does it mean for Matt Barzal, and just like position-wise?

I mean, Horvath's a center, Barzal's played center, Nelson's center, Pajot, Zizekas, you've got a lot of guys down the gut. Do you think they'll push him over to wing? It may be. I'm interested to see what happens. I guess the biggest takeaway I would say is, I believe it's february 6th they're back from the break whatever line bo horvath's on it's it's not written in permanent ink i i think there'll be a feeling out period and seeing where he fits best there's there's no doubt

that he i mean he's a lane lambert player he's a a Lou Lamorello player. He's any coach's type of player because he's a two-way centerman, and I would envision him for sure playing in the middle. They've got so much depth with Nelson, Barzel, Sezikis, and Pajot. They've moved Sezikis up to wing for stretches, especially recently playing with Barzel. Barzel, I like him in the middle of the ice because the way he picks up speed, getting the puck in his own end, he can exit and enter the other zone maybe better than anyone, but he's really struggled in the face-off dot.

And a lot of times his wingers coming in to help out on draws. So I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him maybe on the wing with uh with horvat but i don't want to speculate too much because i think there'll be a feeling out of of who goes where and but the biggest thing is yes matt barzell everyone knows how skilled he is he hasn't played with someone consistently the entire season and if he does click with Bo Horvat, you've just unlocked all the potential, all the things you see with Matt Barzell, his ability to set guys up to play with someone with the speed of Horvat and the finishing ability. That's what I would like to see from an analyst's perspective.

But I think they're going to have a feeling out of where does it work out best? Who's going to slot over? What makes the most sense for this team? Because they have got five very good centermen right now all right hicks last one from us here i want to get you know bohar that's going to wear number 14 you know my my dad bob born wore number 14 you wore number 14 is your heart broken how do you feel about the 14 well he's going to wear it much better than me and i'm not sure if uh you sure if he wears it anywhere as well as your dad. That would be very well done, but I just found out about that. I had a good laugh.

Some guys have worn it since me, and six-letter last name that starts with H and 14, that's close enough for me. Maybe he can trick some people into thinking I still play. That's great. All right, man. Well, thank you so much for your time today. Wish you all the best, and I hope to get you on again sometime. You guys's great. All right, man. Well, thank you so much for your time today. Wish you all the best and I hope to get you on again sometime. You guys got it.

All right. Take care. Thanks, man. There you have it. New York Islanders. Smooth skating. Thomas Hickey. Yeah.

You know, there was, you know, so those years, those Islander years were kind of your guys's leaf years with like Grabowski, Kuhlman, whatever where they were like good Islander teams. You kind of had to talk yourself into guys a little bit. And then didn't they sign Kuhlman? Yeah, that's right. Gave him a lot of... Yeah, Kuhlman played there for... Well, didn't Grabo give me go to the Islander? I feel like

he maybe did too. I feel like there may be a bit of crossover there. Yeah, but no, let's see if it's funny Kuhl did too. I feel like there may have been a crossover there. Yeah. But no, let's see if it's funny to cool him in again. It's like, that's twice that I've brought him up today. That's what you get if Kipper's not here. He was a good player. He was.

He was a good player. Scored 30 goals for the Leafs. Hard to believe. 30 goals? He did. I think it was his second year at the Leafs. He scored 30 goals. It's really hard to believe that that happened, but it did.

That's impressive. All right. So we have one more Keefe clip that we didn't play. Yeah, let's finish up our leafy stuff. And it was about Samsonov getting the run of games. So if we could get that there, Derek, then we'll come off of it. Yeah, it's been really great how he's just kept a level head about it. You know, I think he made it known that when we played out in Washington or whenever that was now, that it was a game that he was nervous and uncomfortable in,

and he looked that way in the net. But it was a chance for him to grow from that experience, knowing that there was going to be more times where he would be uncomfortable going ahead. And then there was another one the other night. He has not a great night, and our team doesn't have a great night in front of him when he has to go in unannounced or without preparation.

He has to bounce back from that against his old team the very next game. I thought he'd manage that very well. I think he's managed it very well in the days in between in terms of just coming in with a good attitude and a good approach to get to work and do what Curtis is asking you from him. So it's been really great to see him grow through this. So I have two ways you can go on this conversation.

So which way do you want to start with? Uncomfortable is the word that stood up for me. Right. That's twice that he brought it up, right? Yeah. So I don't like that. No. Right. brought it up right yeah so i don't like that no right that he's not uncomfortable but i don't like that but the bounce back factor has been there with him right and in years past with washington he'd have these unbelievable hot

starts where it's like he's 10 and 0 and he's looking like the best goal in the league and then she goes and she don't come back. And she gone. Yeah, she don't come back. She gone. It hasn't happened. Yeah. Like, he has found a way to sort of level himself here. Like, that game on Friday night wasn't his fault, I guess.

Like, you can be like, oh, the Leafs played like crap. They did, but six shots still entered the net. And, you know, I know some of them were not, they're not his fault. Like, I'm not going to blame the goalie, but if he was talking to you after the game, he'd probably say, I didn't like that. I'd like to not give up a touchdown. I would prefer that six shots didn't enter the net. So for him to come back the next night against a team

that he used to play for, has a good night, they win. Like, I think we are starting to see sort of developmental in the mental side of it. Like with him figuring out that he's the starting goal here this is what is this going to be for straight start six straight starts seven straight starts like how many times has he done that i'll take that i'll take that as a take you know when i first heard that clip my initial thought was just okay so the things that made him uncomfortable were playing in a game against his old team yes and playing in a game

where he was the backup and asked to go in what's that going to be like in game seven against tampa in tampa and the electric oh you're giving them home ice i just did that wow and there's the lightning bolt shooting it from the tesla coils in the sky can i say i've been to that arena i went for a leaf uh lightning game yeah it's jarring oh really you feel the electricity in the air literally like it's like like you can really feel it that's awesome but so kessel scored you know like it's been a great series and the the world's crumbling down you're down one nothing you're in tampa whatever like i don't want a guy who gets uncomfortable too easily for sure and so it

seems to me like playing your old team should not be a scenario i i know he's a new leaf in that scenario and he's trying to he's playing for his career really this year so there's a lot of pressure yeah maybe by then he doesn't feel like he's playing for his career and he's just playing for wins but that initially made me be like i think if you're him there is a comfort level now unless there's some sort of catastrophic injury or whatever but like even if he does like get hurt he's gonna get another contract next year oh yeah he is proven enough through 50 games of a season that he can play in the league well he has established himself for the toronto maple leafs in with the most eyes on him playing unbelievable on home ice where there's the most with the most eyes on him playing unbelievable

on home ice where there's the most riders and most everything following him. To me, I think he knows already that he's going to get a big contract I don't know going into this year though that he knew that. He's played well enough to feel that way now. I think he's established himself now as a legitimate

in the top 10 conversation goalie. I know his numbers are probably all in the top 10 conversation goal like i know his numbers are probably all within the top 10 this year i maybe wouldn't necessarily be ready to throw him into that i think there's enough of a career sort of track record of him not being that to sort of put him in there but he's entering that conversation like listen last week he beat sorokin and shisterkin in back-to-back games like that's pretty impressive and you know to your point so he's in toronto he's in this big market playing for his career that that the biggest thing would be you know can you make these big saves help us out the top five and

high danger save percentage jake ottinger is fifth igor shisterkin is fourth you heard him yes i have okay andre vasilevsky yes pretty good pretty good linus ulmark quite good okay and number one is Samsonov. He's been the best in the NHL at making those saves. No Canadian goalies in there, right? Not a Canadian to be found. Concerning. Good catch.

Concerning. A lot of teams. A lot of Sorokin, Shosturkin, Vasilevsky. Oh, Russian? Yeah. Sweden? Yeah. USA?

Canada ever played those guys in hockey? Do they ever go head to head with those guys? I don't think no one ever plays best on best anymore. Oh my God. Yeah. You get exposed there. Bunkus gets on me for how scared I am of other countries. He's like, do you forget that you cheer for Team Canada?

Yeah. And I'm like, yeah. You're the team with Crosby, McDavid, McKinnon, Makar. Yeah. Yeah. But. Yeah. The goalie.

The goalie. Yeah. macar yeah yeah but yeah the goalie the goalie yeah anyway so it's just i think he's probably at the point now where he knows he's established himself as one of the guys in the league that's a good goalie and he's outplayed matt murray matt murray has his availability has now waned again right like it's now again when we're going into a thing when's we gonna see him again he's got a lingering ankle it's like ankle oh i rolled my ankle four years ago guess what still still lingers yeah crappy old ankle there's a luis he came in about that it's it just it doesn't so i i'm pretty interested to see in samsonov for the rest of the year. Because I believe in him. Uh-oh.

I know. I know. And I do believe in him. That was me and Clifford last year. He's had those moments where he's been really not good. And he's had these swoons. Yeah. But he hasn't gone into the depths where he's just no good for a long stretch.

Where he can't find it. Yeah. He's gone down a little bit like he did against Ottawa where he was no good. Back up against the Capitals. Wednesday's a huge night for him long stretch. We can't find it. Yeah. He's gone down a little bit like he did against Ottawa where he was no good. Back up against the Capitals. Wednesday's a huge night for him. Yeah. And last bit of psychoanalysis, which, you know,

not everyone loves on him, is, you know, when we heard him come out and we called him Russian Jack Campbell because he was all over himself for some bad play. Oh, by the way,

we never talked about that. That you, like, created a thing. Oh, yeah. And it was like, people are calling him I am people. It was me move on that's you i had hockey one morning a guy he's like i heard them i heard someone call him the russian jack campbell and i was like uh this guy that was probably you heard me say that but part of that i think is that you know when you don't know

language in nuance you know good and bad yeah you know the same way that i think is that you know when you don't know language in nuance you know good and bad yeah you know the same way that i know them for french and i would use bad you know so there's not really any way to delicately say you know you know my expectations for my performance in that game were substandard you know you're like i'm bad i'm bad i'm bad i'm sad i'm bad i'm sad what else do you need honestly kudos to sansanov because he's not clearly clearly english is not his first language right and win or lose he's got smile he goes out there talks to the media he's sad he's bad he's bad i thought it was the most impressive thing like if genny malkin forever did not want to talk to anyone and frankly if you hear him now

i'm not sure he speaks it better than Sosnov. Buddy, can I tell you, if I was playing hockey in Russia and they're like, hey, man. Come out and try. I'd be like, I'm good. I don't think I'm going to say. Give me a techie in the league and then we'll. Yeah, like even that. But like even towards the, like Hasek barely towards the end of his career was speaking

in like good English. It's just, English is hard. Very hard. It's a hard language. Credit to those people who. Credit to us a hard language. Credit to those people who... Credit to us who speak it. Credit to those people who learn it. That's what I was going to say.

All right. So, do you want to do Commissioner Gary Bateman? Yeah. Do we want to go off the Leafs yet? We can. I just want to run down what you think... Gary Batman. Gary Batman.

Thanks, Joe Biden. What his greatest accomplishment is. Is it not having the Arizona Coyotes sell out a 5,000-seat arena? Oh, boy. Is it the flat salary cap when, I don't know if you noticed this, but the NFL salary cap went up $45 million this year? So did you see, hold on, carry on while you're talking. I'm going to find something.

Is it creating divisions where the toronto maple leafs are screwed every single year and have no chance of getting out of it oh god is it the flat cap where no teams can make a trade and there's no fun transactions and that's one of the favorite things of all sports fans is transactions that part is devastating is it the board ads it's the board ads is it like Is it the board ads? It's the board ads. Is it like, oh, it's these hockey, developed hockey in the South. You know, it's like, great. Oh, you put a bunch of teams in the South

that don't sell out. What a legacy. Is it the multiple lockouts? Like, what is it? Well, listen, there has been some failings, but he took them from the Outdoor Life Network to back on ESPN. Fair enough.

It was a bit of a journey to get there. I can't find it quick enough from, Oh, here we go. Uh, Jeff Van, um, tweeted about the salary cap in other sports.

And he says the NFL hard cap has gone up 19.4% since, uh, 2018, 19. So 19, that's a lot. Yeah. 19%.

So yeah, not bad. The NBA is a soft cap, but it's gone up 22.8% since 2018-19. So about the same time frame, 20%. The NBA, sorry, NBA, NFL, and the NHL has gone up 4.8% over that same time. It's not good enough. No. I mean, we're getting smoked by these other leagues where the players are getting. And so whatever it is those other leagues have done to help them bridge the pandemic years and whatever

else you know you got nhl players paying back escrow and whatever you're right it's hurting the game the the canucks have to take back anthony bevillier to make a trade just you know it's not he's a bad player but listen i don't i also don't want to sit here and be like, hockey is as popular as football. No. Or as, you know, like in the States. I understand that that's part of it. It's popularity. It's eyeballs.

All that stuff goes into it. Like, there's just so many things that I hate about the sport that are a direct result of what Gary Bettman has done. Sorry. Sorry, Gary. Listen, people. I'm sorry gary i don't know of any commissioner of a sports league where people are like that man does a good job everyone's frustrated all the time by certain things adam silver had a run there he did have a run when he first came in and he sent donald sterling packing and he was really doing a great job i'm not sure

really any yeah there's a little bit of that that China turned it. Trying to think of, everyone hates Goodell. Yeah, so Goodell is legitimately the most hated. 45 million a year and he's like, hate me. He does not care. Bathing in money. And if Kipper was here, I bet you Kipper would stick up for Ben.

Of course, and Kipper would say the right thing. He says he does not care what I think. He does not care what the players think. He doesn't care. The people he cares about are the 32 people that. Sign his checks. That's who he serves. And I think a fair point to be made was if you're saying that's Bettman's job.

And if you look at the value of franchises over Bettman's tenure, the percentage that they have increased is probably not that far out of line with NBA franchises. Like, you know, the Leafs are worth billions now, $2 billion. And I watched that Ballard documentary, and he bought them for a change he had in his cushions. I haven't watched that yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Tonight may be the night. Yeah.

Well, you're not going to miss any great hockey tonight. No? No. A couple of lopsided affairs, although I am on television. The question, I get serving the owners, and I understand that. And I guess maybe it's because a lot of the people that care about the ins and outs of the salary cap are in your markets that are going to be there regardless.

Right. Like me. But this is the thing I think. I'm watching every, like Gary Bettman can do whatever the hell he wants. Old Joe Smoe that lives in Etobicoke. I think they've abused that though.

For sure. There's no doubt. Like all Canadian fans will be there. Yeah, but like I will be, they will be there. That's the thing. He can live under this assumption that they are going to be there.

Like the Habs are still close to selling out. They stink. They're horrible. They're like, they're talking about, you know, somebody canard. I don't know.

Coffee's out. Caulfield's out. And they're like, can we interest you in Harvey? But everyone's like, you sure can. Yeah. Like they're got,

they're like, we got the Laval line. How about the Montreal line? I just, do you have any Canadians? I think it's just, it drives me nuts. I think it just is a factor of me being selfish and being a Leaf fan that the Leafs got paid legitimately $1 billion by Scotiabank for the naming rights of their arena.

Is that true? It was like $885 million. Yeah. And they can spend $80 million on their team. Yeah. So it's like they have to. And I actually don't even think the owner, MLSC, likes that. I'm sure they'd love to be able to spend another $20 million.

Of course. And it's not like I'm saying they should spend, be the Dodgers, and spend $400 million on their team. Right. But if they could spend $120 million on their team yeah and they could be like you know what we don't have to have the conversation be like you know what zach hyman you do get to play here yeah you'd love to have five teams against the salary cap jammed up against it because they're in all in years and they've kept hyman mckeough like i'm just quickly pulling up cap friendly here and talk amongst yourselves

while i'm doing this but all these teams look like ltir which is kind of like a luxury cat well people use it that way now if anyone has a vegas has four people on it montreal nine edmonton four washington five, five. Tampa Bay, one. Shocking. Leafs, six. Florida, three. Vancouver, four. Four, three, seven.

Down the list, it's like they're already screwing with you. But you know what's actually... They're loopholing you to death. What's most interesting about that is all those teams you named are the teams that are up against the cap, the top 10. You look at the teams at the bottom, and there's no one on LTIR for the bottom 10 teams. Cause they're not,

they don't have to worry about the cap. So they just, which goes to show you how many people are on the cap, which is the wink, wink, nudge, which is the exact reason that the luxury tax is perfect. Yeah.

And you take the money from the luxury cap that the rich teams give you, and you give it to the poor teams. You take from the rich. It's Robin Hood, baby. It's a pretty simple thing. Take from the rich, give it to the poor. Yeah. All right.

Anyways. William Nylander named second star of the week in the National Hockey League with four goals and three assists in four games. Give him a little shout out there. I love that he's getting some recognition. I mentioned him on TV the other day, Nick Ehlers bit. So it's doing the Jets game.

My segments on Ehlers. And I say, he reminds me a lot of William Nylander. You know, Nylander's had a breakout year. That is the most fair take of all time. They honestly look so similar when they play hockey. People do not like... If you are covering... So this is actually a thing I've learned.

Okay. If you are covering a game out of the Leafs time zone, it's not a Leafs game, they get upset if you mention the Leafs. Oh, yeah. Leafs net is the joke. Makes sense. I get it.

Right? Whatever. Yeah, it's fine. But it's a... They hate us because they ain't. It's a valid comparison to say that, you know, Ehlers and Willey both circle the net with the puck behind. Edge work city.

Yeah. Beautiful skaters, both of them. And both of them have created a lot of controversy over how much ice time they should get. Because Ehlers gets 1650 a game, which was Willey forever. Yep. And people are like, you you know he's the highest points per 60 guy in the nhl is nick eelers and so fans are like why didn't he get 20 minutes well you know it's all the stuff that willie used to do that he still does defensively and there you know

there's a reason maybe like that the really good coach rick bonus and also palmer he's played him the same way 16 some minutes and it's and he's getting a lot of points why screw with yeah it doesn't necessarily mean if you play more if you play 60 minutes you don't keep up your points for 60 he's 3.5 points for 60 he's not gonna get three and a half in a 60 minute game if you play him if you play him 22 minutes a night maybe two extra goals go in your net the other way. You got to kind of balance it out. So I'm happy that you just mentioned

William Neal later, him getting the recognition. But I will say that I hate the conversation about the All-Star game and him not going. And then people, so people crap all over the All-Star game. It's like, it's the stupidest thing. That's us, right? Yeah.

Which is, I mean, watch it on our network and let's do it on the fan of course yes of course we're gonna watch yeah i'll be watching it friday and saturday i don't have dinner plans either of those nights but uh like you can't be mad that he's not at the all-star game and then crap on the all-star game good point if it doesn't matter you don't get to care yeah like if you care if you're grinding over the three-on-three tape and watching them shoot meat pucks into a gator mouth then you can then you could care but it's still a euphemism for something i haven't figured out what yet i just i don't i saw a lot of people being pissed off about it but they also crapple over the all-star game so sure he deserves recognition but like i think he's gonna be fine in cabo he's gonna be fine in cabo

i was actually wondering about our boy samsonov while we were talking about it like if his reputation pre toronto was you know not keeping it on the rails entirely how are seven days off gonna go i i wonder how it would be i you know the all-star break you're just it must be really really nice to like have a break you know it's nice to have a break from any job but like when you're an NHLer you can't let it go your your cardio and everything because it sucks when you come back you gotta not even that like if you're Mitch Marner you're like you know what's really fun playing sick hockey in the NHL you know it's

like it's like yeah like I'm really good at hockey, and every night I'm one of the best guys of the night on the ice. But if I can tell you, in my experience, the worst part about it is that hockey is a structured life to a gross degree where it's like, here's your itinerary. The bus leaves at 10. The flight leaves at this time. Meals at this time. Pre-game skates this time.

You fit in your nap here. And it's like that for like 200 days in a row i know so it has nothing to do for me with the hockey part which i'm sure he loves and just being able to be like i slept in till 10 and i ate a bowl of ice cream for breakfast and apparently nancy pelosi does that i read that today i know it's a weird thing bowl of ice cream for breakfast every day apparently anyway um but it's getting just breaking the routine yeah that i think is the nice part yeah i get that i get that but jt saying he's going to tromblant and taking his kids skiing to me i was like that sounds his kids are three and two it's gonna be hell i heard him say that i'm like don't ski no i know well i actually I think it's in his contract that he can't. Yeah, so take him to the bunny hill and, like, stand there.

I was curious about that because, like, in my college scholarship, if I broke an ankle skiing, I would have lost my scholarship. That was part of the deal. You can't do extreme sports while we're paying you $11 million. It's literally extreme sports. Yeah, he's like, I'm going to wear a squirrel suit and jump off a mountain. And everyone's like, hold on, what are you doing? I'm going to go paintballing.

Where's the line of what you can and can't do with this time off? Go sit in a beach. So I got a question. Chalet maybe. Ice cream for breakfast. It's stuck with me. Are you one of those that's like can't have anything like at weird times? Like if it's like if you had a, for example.

Don't tell me what I can eat when. Yeah. So, you know, if there's like a birthday cake in the house or whatever, and I wake up and it's there, it's like, I'll have a piece of breakfast. I'll have a piece of breakfast. It doesn't matter. It doesn't faze me. I'm just a construct baby.

I'm glad you feel the same way as me. I really do. But I do get a lot of looks from my wife and she's like, you're eating the Chinese food for breakfast? And I'm like, just, it was easy. Like, what about a, like, what about like a pop in the morning? Well. People get really bent out of shape about that too. Yeah, above it yeah i mean either i don't care all right pop

in general is kind of gross but it just it's not my favorite thing but like people like you'd have a pop for breakfast it's like why is it so weird why can't i yeah anyways good so i actually i will say kipper yesterday was talking about superstitions once in college i ate an ice cream sandwich on the way to the rank and score twice so i did that for like a year. Terrible plan. But I was just like, yeah, it works for me. Love that. Thank you. So you mentioned playing in college.

I saw an unbelievable video on Sportsnet's Instagram or Twitter. I don't even know where I saw it. I think I sent it to you via Instagram. Yeah. And it was a rink with a stair thing that kind of was like a trap door down to the ice. And the guys had to like shake it down. The best comparison is attic stairs where you pull them down and they kind of unfold. And the rink was like really almost like a fever dream.

Yeah. It looked like you could blow it over. The big bad wolf could ruin your escape. It had like 70s nets where they're not very deep. Like it's just like those super short nets. So I really recommend anyone listening or watching on YouTube to go to Sportsnet's Instagram or Twitter or whatever to watch this video. But it got me thinking, what is the weirdest barn you've played in? Because you've probably played in a lot.

You've played in Alaska. Can you think? Yeah. No. So I mean there's a couple of weird ones and one of them is not alaska it's that i know some really rich people in colona oh and they just have one and it's a small like in their backyard and they pay to keep it who are you bad at us it was in bony like the whole thing functions and they'll just be like oh if you want

to use that that's just like a so there is this it's a trip to just be like, oh yeah, if you want to go use that, that's just like a, so there is this, it's a trip to just be like, this is your rink. You just go out there. Like I know actually Jerome McGinley, you started from them all day to stay away from everyone. But like, imagine the level of income to just go on your backyard arena. Buddy,

I know what my league fees are. My beer league. I know what it costs to keep a rink going. Yeah, it's not cheap. What about you? You've played all over Ontario, I'm sure. I played in Pembroke. So I used to play with my dad, Andy Amack.

We used to play in the M&R, Ministry of Natural Resources tournament every year. And we got to play in Sudbury, North Bay, Pembroke, all over Northern Ontario. And I think it was the Lumber Kings that Keefe used to be the coach of. Owner, coach. So I played at that arena. Yeah. And the boards were, sort of the benches were on opposite sides. Oh, that's classic.

So you could imagine what in the early 1900s games in Pembroke looked like. Yeah. So they could not. Good to have them on opposite sides. But it changed the game so much, Borny. Yeah. Well, there's not the same like energy, right? But like even in the flow of the game, the guys are changing from across.

Yeah. And it's like they're, it's a really. Strategically as a coach, you would have to keep in mind. It's a completely different game. Yeah. Honestly, the way they're changing. Well, in breaking out, you'd be like, let's bring it up our side because our guys are just coming on the ice there or whatever.

It's very weird. I've got another one for you. Let me have it. Yeah, so Chilliwack Chiefs in the BCHL had a rink that was boards up, you know, dashers up to the normal height, and then like indented like the glass would be, then boards up to your head height and then like indented like the glass would be then boards up to your head for just for concussions and then glass up for the fans and the fans sat

on top of you and the boards were made of steel and that extra bit of boards i mean it oh my god concussions and broken shoulders legitimately the worst design in the history of sports and they were big and mean and it was awful we played there in the final we lost design in the history of sports and they were big and mean and it was awful we played there in the final we lost there in the final my uh rookie year and won there in the final my second year oh my god but death just death boards all over the place it is fun well shout out and the last one i'll do is shout out alan ferderino i don't even know if it's still standing about 20 minutes rolling sound uh tractor zamboni oh like pull a thing yeah just like pulls like a dick rig it's pulling around a broom of water basically yeah and uh in the corner like it was wasn't

glass it was mesh like steel mesh around chicken wire yes and but the thing is shout out best ice in the world yeah it was you had to wear like six undershirts under your thing because it was just freezing cold. But that ice is just flat, smooth, perfect. Just like Ben Ennis was about to go on. He's trying to do in his backyard. Sullivan Arena in Anchorage, Alaska was my home rink. And they just like, you know, keep the doors open once in a while. But it was like skating on diamond.

You go out there and kick a puck the length of the Olympic ice. There's no better feeling than that. Nothing better. Thank you so much for joining me. Maybe you be here tomorrow hashtag sam cam sam cam in real life love it thanks to bunk thanks to hickey thanks to ralphie um and yeah we will be back tomorrow we'll find out if it's kipper or sam we'll see you next time.