Real Kyper & Bourne - Time To Worry About Matt Murray

Episode Date: January 6, 2023

Justin Bourne, Brent Gunning and Sam McKee kick it off by discussing Team Canada's gold-medal win over Czechia at the World Juniors. They then get into last night's dissapointing showing from the Leafs against the Kraken, worrying and worsening play from Matt Murray, how Sheldon Keefe has handled team morale and Morgan Rielly's risky game burning Toronto defensively. The guys are joined by ESPN's Emily Kaplan (41:01), who chats about the trade market, which teams will be the biggest buyers and why some teams have been hesitant to take the first swing. Later, Sam Consentino joins the show (1:04:40) to share his takeaways from the World Juniors, Shane Wright starting to play up to expectations, a pro-comparrison for Connor Bedard, and Canada's goalie development problem.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. The Toronto Maple Leafs played a hockey game, I'm told. But there was also a Canada game on which a lot of people actually watched. And if you were going to miss a Leafs game, this was the one to miss. I joke about it, I did actually watch the Leafs game by and large. Did not go great. Wasn't a lot of fun. It's not good.

No, it's not. It was not good. I'm joined today by Brent Gunning, taking over for Nick Kiprios today, who couldn't be with us. We've got Sam McKee, Derek Brandeo, and Jen Rolnick in the back. Gunner, welcome back. Always, always happy to be here. Yeah. And I, unfortunately, you know, I'm a professional.

I was working the Leafs game last night, so I had an eye on Canada, but I didn't have much of a choice. And yeah, it was a little clockwork orangey at times, but the eyes were held open and we did watch all of that hockey game. Did you have it open anywhere at the rink? Well, so there's a lot of TVs around in the press box, and, you know, I was able to work my way back to one occasionally to see some

minutes of the game might have uh as the third period wound down might have thrown it up on the phone as i watched the game there so maybe that seems essential i uh have vague memories of driving around with kyle dubas when i was with the marlies and dubas would have an ipad up on the dashboard of the car driving around watching the sous saint marie game at all times who was driving kyle oh my god strike that from the record we don't need anybody coming for him there are uh certain levels of passion that fans will go through to see what they got to see that's a wild story that he would drive around he had it open that's like a rob ford move that really is reading the paper driving

he wasn't watching it while driving but when the car would stop and all that, you know. Oh, yeah. Check in on what's going on. Instead of red light, you know. Quick check. McKee, you caught, I see you're wearing your Hockey Canada hat today, which we're allowed to wear now. Yeah.

Today. Yeah. I tested the waters yesterday and it went pretty well, so. Okay. Listen, last night was awesome. It was a really, really awesome moment for Canadian hockey. Yeah. Hockey players wearing a Canadian leaf.

I enjoyed it thoroughly. Yes. The Canadian children crushed it. They were really good. The Canadian children. Specifically the Canadian child wearing 16 who looked good. Again, they didn't get any points. But I was impressed that they pulled that out.

They could have folded up shot pretty easily after two bad bounces go in their net make it two two they go to overtime and uh dylan gunther the golden goal for canada the least i've ever seen someone celebrate a life-defining sports moment so he he said afterwards i don't know if this is just a great lie that he told, because I think he was probably just too stunned, but he said he was too locked in that he just celebrated like it was a regular goal, is what he said after the game. I think that goal is supposed to unlock you, is it not? Yeah, I would say so.

I would say so. Literally the thing you dream about. You know, you want to play in the NHL. You want to play best on best at the men's top level. But it's like this is the first checkmark for every young canadian hockey player in their dreams and he did it and he was just standing there like what do i do with my hands i think it's probably some of that yeah like the truest canadian hockey man he was he was like you know he acted like he's been there before he put in the net doesn't matter just to score a goal or fine head down straight to the bench

um i so the ot i flipped over when it was close in the third and so kind of back and forth missed you know what it was leafs were down a ton and the canada game got close obviously the attention shifted the overtime was fascinating to me i thought it was extremely well played like that goal was really the first good chance that someone let happen which is crazy in three on three with that much talent that much room you know what almost turned the game though the stanchion canada tried to break one out had a two-on-one hits the stanchion went back the other way that you know that's the kind of thing that ends up in the leafs net in game seven can i ask you a question because this is

a hot debate and a mutual chat group of gunner and i's last night happy we're getting into this would you prefer five on five and a shootout after the 20 minutes or three on three for 20? So five on five for 20 minutes and then a shootout? Yes. Is there a reason we can't just keep playing five on five until someone scores? No, there is not a reason. There is not a reason other

than the double IHF existing. I just like to see them play the hockey game until a hockey team scores a hockey goal, personally. So that's such a cop out of an answer. So if the only choice, I think I prefer five on five to the shootout over straight to three on three. Agree.

Yeah. Wholeheartedly agree. It's hockey. And then the, the argument we were also having was like, what's more of a true test of hockey three on three or a shootout. And I would argue it seems weird, but I think it's a shootout because breakaways happen fairly organically in a hockey game.

And I know it's different. You don't have somebody chasing you. But how often do we see three on three outside of, hey, we don't have any other way to decide this game. Let's go with this gimmick. I think we want what we're trying to test is who has the best all around hockey team. And part of hockey is having two defenders back there. You cover for one another. You have your chemistry. It's just it's different three and three totally changes

the skills that are important to winning i completely understand why if for the quarters and the semis you can't have a long 20 you can't have continuous 20 minute overtimes because for example they played a the gold medal game on a back-to-back which seems wild to me when they have an open friday night two nights later. Right. Anyways, they still made a gajillion dollars. It doesn't matter if it's Thursday or Friday. It's beside the point.

They don't care about the boys. You can't have them playing all night the night before the gold medal game. I understand that. But the gold medal game you sure can. Like, where are these kids going? Like, Shane Wright's got to go back to Kingston? Like, they're fine. They're absolutely fine one of my favorite hockey memories is watching uh penguins flyers in the playoffs and

there's a who was it five ot's or whatever it was p primo yeah scores the ot winner like yeah you know part of the entertainment is like who's in better shape who can keep the mental game together when the physical game wilts and didn't they didn't they go to a the first game after the leafs lost to columbus in the bubble in the bubble so i didn't watch this game of course but didn't it go to didn't it go to five overtimes braden point against columbus i have no recollection yeah yeah the crazy ot game i remember recently is uh louis deming with the spicy pork and broccoli that's the one that jumps out to me i remember that one sam because i remember the commentary being about seth jones who was still so effective in that

game because he's like the easiest stride yeah you know he was the guy who just float around out there i don't know he's he's minus 26 second last while we're there although he's an nhl all-star and he's incredibly rich so good good on him. So rich. And listen, Chicago is life so much better than mine. Way better. I think, you know, Canada. If we added up the goodness of all three of our lives, he's still beating us. He's in the lead. So Canada obviously cares way more about the tournament than any other country.

I think the states, they kind of pretend to care and they get bent out of shape when we beat them. They don't really seem to like that. They like to make excuses or whatever. But that's beside the point. Yeah. It matters big time that Bedard got this one. I know they had the weird summer one. I guess he's got two gold medals,

but it's hard to really even count that one. That one was weird. But now he's a two-time world junior gold medalist. Say what you will, but that's an important start to a career resume. You need to have the world junior gold. It the the the world junior gold when you're talking about it's like the world junior gold the world champion if you're looking

for the triple or what's the triple gold club which is actually four things so it's world championship stanley cup olympic gold but world juniors is separate but like if you don't get it for us we hold it against you like it doesn't count for americans or literally anybody else but if a canadian doesn't win it is a little bit of a to me it's important that he started you say that so today i wrote an article on the nhl all-star game and it's nothing you guys don't know we've talked about how it's not for us um what's changed about it so one of the things in my article just a quick tangent was that from 1947 until 2004 there was an all-Star game every single year in some capacity except for two years. Since then, 2005 until now, six years, we've missed the All-Star game.

So like in the press release, they're like, Sidney Crosby has the second most All-Star nominations to Mario Lemieux or whatever. It's like there's not the same amount of All-Star games over their careers. So we've lost the All-star games as a measuring stick of like career success but while looking that up i went to elite prospects.com and then one of the sections is uh awards and just like what your highlights what you've won over your career look at crosby's page and it is it's world junior i think he won two world junior golds i think he got yeah he was on for sure the loaded team and i think he had one more before that after

that or before it would have been before because i was a lockout he was in the nhl after they lost the year before though well then maybe i think it's just one maybe just has the one well if you go to his page and just the amount of things that guy has won you have to like hover your cursor over i'm gonna turn into babs now serial winner what he is just well real winner but this is mckee's point winners are on teams that win and while teams make all the difference you can't win on a bad team you cannot do it on a really bad team conor bedard did score the overtime winner to put them in a position to win the gold decent so he had to be on a good team but he had a pretty big hand and then getting it done so sam are you on that page to look at the uh i'm not looking at it, but I know. You don't need to.

The only... So, if you want to go a step further, then there's the one with the Memorial Cup, right? They got... This is an all-time champion. He's a silver. Crosby is a silver in the World Juniors. He doesn't have a gold? He has a gold and a silver. Yeah, they lost to the States the year before they beat Russia in the final. They got to get Bedard in the Memorial Cup. He's not... Like, this is way

too inside of Western Hockey League. This isn't even like inside baseball. It's like inside wiffle ball ball but it's like they got to get him on a team that's going to play in the memorial cup but if you're okay so we're going down the whl role here we are sorry born but if you if you're regina you're there's zero chance you're trading them because what what is it going to be worth it for your tickets and everything for this next little stretch you can charge more for tickets. You can have them there every night, as opposed to,

I guess you get literally another team's franchise for six years in the WHL, but it's not worth it to me. If you could have Connor Bedard and your team for 40 more games, the amount you can charge, the amount of pub that brings to your team. I wouldn't also eat off a guy like that forever. Like he comes back in his Jersey,

goes to the rafters and he's a former regina pat you are everything associated with him you know i can't believe i have this information off the top but their gm got into it the the patch gm got into it with reporters uh before the holiday break because he was asked about will you trade bedard and apparently i didn't even know this was a thing in junior hockey apparently he has a basically a no trade clause and he don't want to go so that's the end of that apparently imagine junior hockey no trade clause you have to be so good how much clout do you have like all of it those don't exist but i mean if you've seen him play he deserves it i guess shane wright didn't have one of those because he's gonna get traded for sure yeah so he's off. Shane Wright has one. He does have one. Okay. Okay. All right.

I mean, I don't know how you guys feel about Shane Wright, but is he a franchise-altering guy in junior right now? Probably, right? In junior, for sure. Okay. Questions in the NHL. Listen, I came on the radio yesterday and said that he better enjoy this game because it's probably the last time he's ever going to get to play for Canada.

Then he scored the nicest goal I think I've ever seen. And no sell-out because he just went about his business yeah yeah so uh i think i'm gonna be a fan of rights i think i've decided he's my guy like i'm from i've i've adopted burlington as my new hometown he is from burlington and the home of the coat factory that's right and most importantly the montreal canadians didn't draft him first overall so i can totally claim him as my own he's out west yeah cracking great it's great it's my guy yeah i sw there is big part of me that hopes he goes on to have an illustrious career so that we can say that the habs took oh that'd be so good they took the slovakian pierre angvall first i gotta tell you

shane right i wish i hadn't heard slavkoski compared to Engvall because now I can't unsee it. It's all I see. That first video of him cruising around at Canadians training camp, it is uncanny. Here's the difference. Engvall's 26 or something. He's a decade older than this kid. Totally. I'm not saying it's the knock on the player. It is just impossible not to see it.

We will say 18-year-old Slavkovski is Engvall with less awareness. That guy gets plowed every night. I know. I know. All right. Do you want to talk about the Leafs? Let's do it. All right.

Let's hear Sheldon Keefe. Let's get into it. Talk about the game where, you know, didn't get great goaltending. Let's just hear his overview of the game. I didn't like that we weren't able to capitalize and to take control of the game on the scoreboard with how well we played in the first period. And then the game's up for grabs from there, right?

They get one power play, and I thought we'd have an excellent penalty kill. I might be wrong. I think it might have been the only shot attempt they had, and after about a minute and a half, they get one shot attempt, and it goes in their net off of Gio, and that's kind of the way the game went for us. We didn't capitalize with our looks early in the game enough.

So, you know, you leave the game up for grabs after that. You know, he's trying to be nice to the goalie. Really trying. We suck. Really trying. Do you want to hear him talk about the goalie? Okay. Let's get more specific.

Let's do it. I mean, we need to get a big save from him, right? Like, it's coming. The game. I mean, we need to get a big save from him, right? Like, it's coming, the game's coming, and we need to get a big save there. But like I said, look at the first one. He doesn't get much action at all in the first period. And that power play, there's not a lot happening. He's reading the release one way, he goes off to your shin pad and in. You know, even the second one, he screamed on that one with the guy coming through

so there's some funny goals going in there but obviously we need our players in the first period to make a big play take control of the game we need our goaltender to make a big save to get us going and give us life too so we didn't get that so those are the kind of things that

stand out about the game but like I said there's a lot to like about our first period. We play like that a lot of nights. We take control of games and don't look back. Yeah. Yep. So go ahead. This is the Sheldon playbook.

What is? What he, this press conference that he did last night is he, I think a lot of coaches do this i think it's probably something they teach in the you know the coach's handbook when he's you know watching his uh documentaries on coaching because he's so well read just like his general manager but i just he's going against what you think he's gonna say yes right like there's no better way to look like an elite super genius than being like oh is that what you thought actually well actually yeah we played really well yeah like the first period we played our best period like he's outlining the positives in a completely negative game and he probably didn't do that to in the room but he

wants to come out to the media make it seem like he's not that upset about the performance right i have a couple uh things saved on my computer from when i worked with sheldon and one of them or two of them are presentations we gave the team during a winning streak and one during a losing streak and the one during the losing streak was like actually look at how good some of these underlying numbers are we're actually defending really well we're actually doing this really well we're actually not as bad as our wins and loss record and same during the winning streak actually guys we're giving up we're getting goaltending we're getting filled in here filled in here filled in there and that's part of it i think is you know you hear

coaches say all the time you can't get too high you can't get too low i think that's like his number one priority particularly in the toronto market is to try to squeeze it into this range so there's not franticness about their success or he's had some he's had some learning lessons in that this year and going back to New York, the soft comments and then everything that happened with him talking about the accountability of the players. You're right.

It is part of that, generally speaking, and this is part of being in a bigger market. It happens if you're the Leafs head coach. It's the same if you're the Yankees manager or the Cowboys head coach. You say some things, it just gets a lot more ink spilled on it. And it does seem like let's just play it a little safer here. And then, you know, he goes back to the idea of the save.

It all comes to me on the second goal he's talking about there. You tie it up. You're feeling good about yourself. You finally got the game going well. And then the thing that kills me about that is that that has been the Leafs' Achilles heel for so long is that when the game's going well and there's a save that should be made that isn't

or they should capitalize after a run of good chances and they don't that's when things seem to always turn on them and that really hasn't been the case this year at least not as much as it has been in the past but that was the kind of bad sign of it last night and early in the season when they continued to get good goaltending they had a long run of good goaltending it's funny how it looks like the team is able to weather the storms a little better. It's like, hey, what a resilient group, even though, you know, they gave up a bad one. So Jonas Eagle tweeted this out and we've got it in our lineup here that the Leafs rank 32nd in team save percentage, 852 since December 15th.

So the Leafs goaltending splits this season in October, 895 save percentage, November 926 back to 892 in December and January. So they had such an unbelievable run in November there. But I don't know. That's eight games going back to December 15th. Are we worried about eight games? Is that fair to... It's the 10th of the season.

It's peace. Like, it's not nothing, you know? Like, I don't think this is a case of, oh, this is who these guys are. And they were playing completely over their heads. And they'll never sniff that 926. And I don't think this is a case of oh this is who these guys are and they were playing completely over their heads and they'll never sniff that 9 26 and i don't think they're getting back up there but i do truly believe that somewhere in the middle is where this goaltending lies but i think the the problem or the question you have to ask yourself at least is okay why is it though

that this is the exact same thing that happened with a completely different set of goaltenders last year this is the exact same thing we've seen a completely different set of goaltenders last year. This is the exact same thing we've seen where, okay, November is great. Maybe none of them are any good. Okay, so is that just it? It's the worst answer. Okay, well, that is honestly in my heart of hearts. That's what I believe. But I think if you're sitting here talking about what you can glean out of it is,

is it something the team is doing? And I want to be clear. I think the answer to that is no. I think you nailed it with your whispering that maybe they just all kind of stink. I think that's probably true. But what does it say about the team that this is, like, it's not December that they played well.

It is literally the exact same stretch of the season. And it's just, you know, even going back to Anderson, he had runs like this in that time of the year. It's just, it's confounding that it has followed the exact same playbook over the last two, three it would be interesting to look at freddie stats because i seem to remember him not being an overly fast starter either then coming around october was always every year was a referendum it's like this is finally the year he's no good and then he would be really good the rest of the year so rest of the year would be good until until the big games

right that's right yeah yeah it is it is fascinating that there is a consistent trend. You know, two things to talk about that people tweeted me about. One of them is, is it just a coincidence that Morgan Rielly's back and they're getting scored on a lot? So that's one thing. Let's put that on hold for now if we want to talk about that. And the other is, you know what might help a guy who's struggling in a game is pull them and put the other guy in for crying out loud this all i can think of and i this is completely unfair although one guy is showing a little bit of this the other

guy not so much as it feels to me like you were worried about the mentality of the guys that you will not pull them you know maybe if it was just you were hesitant to put Murray in on a game you didn't have him I could understand it being just an injury concern issue and you have it so scheduled out that these are the games Murray's gonna play maybe I could understand that but there's no reason that he couldn't have got the hook last night other than that you don't have any faith in what Samsonov has given you right now so I I have to wonder if it's a mentality thing and then going back to what we saw from Samsonov and I know you know somebody made the point to me that there is a little bit lost in translation there with English not being his first language and maybe he wouldn't be so overstated and how he felt about going into Washington but clearly meant a lot to him and

it clearly affected him that he didn't play well in that game so that's the only theory I possibly have on this is that it's just a mentality thing and they're afraid to lose them. You know, I just wonder though, if it's not worse for the mentality of a guy who doesn't have it that night for any given reason, I don't disagree to hang them out there for another, whatever. And, you know, Sammy tweeted about it in the Samson off game. And my thought was, I, you know, they must not feel like they can put Murray in cold. They're worried about his injuries, which already, that's a problem.

If you can't play a guy, you're paying $5 million to him, you know, $4.5 million plus. So that's a concern. And then the other thing is that when you have this tandem so regimented, so scheduled, this guy's getting this start and this start, and, you know, we want to put both guys in a chance to succeed, and suddenly it all gets thrown off if one guy has to get put in the middle of the game maybe your tandem's really hurting you it's not giving you a chance to win like kipper tweeted last night actually during

the game about like the leafs needing a wake-up call we have sheldon keith talking about did you think about pulling murray why don't we hear and koshan asked him the question so you can you can listen to it here all right cool many thought yeah a little bit just trying to consider you know mixing things up a little bit but at the same time you know matt murray's played a lot of really good hockey for us and i thought he deserved the opportunity to stay in there and fight hate that you hate it like couldn't agree more like the opportunity to stay in and fight. This game was over. Yeah.

Make a point. You're trying to win a game and, you know, don't worry about his feelings. His opportunity is going to be you're going to put him back in the next hockey game. I completely agree. Again, it's the fact of I just can't go to anything other than the mentality of these guys. And I understood the idea of not wanting to give him the cold hook in the middle of the period you know i know that can be a little you know in the face for some guys i get that but there was no reason for the third period it is a back-to-back this weekend you're gonna use both guys there's no world where you needed to keep somebody fresh or

or whatever the case was so yeah i i don't like that there seems to be a real hesitancy i don't know what a guy has to do to get pulled on this team honestly like and not to say that murray was he was not good last night not by any means but it was not a it wasn't a tragedy of a game or anything he did get the bronx cheer at one point in time from from the crowd there i don't know if that came across on the broadcast the reason they lost yeah well he no no he was he was five one it wasn't one three two no no i am not taking him off the hook by any means but but there have been worse goaltending performances, but that was not a case where you could not pull the guy, and I just can't understand it,

and I keep having to go to the mentality of the player not wanting to lose the guy. Again, if you can't do that, if you can't handle getting pulled in a game in January, what month are we in? It doesn't matter. It's not April. It's not April, exactly.

If you can't handle getting pulled in a game in not April, and I'm not saying that Matt Murray can't handle it, but that's the best theory I have. How can you handle the rigors of you're down 2-0 to the Bulls? Well, guess what? We have Matt Murray to weigh in on this. Let's listen to Matt Murray and move it on. I think you just try to take what you can from it and learn from it

and then move on. Like I said, I think the game could have gone a different way. We had stretches, especially in the first period. I thought we were in control of the game. So you take what you can from it and you move on. So is that being a pro or is that skirting the – Whoa. Brandale, what a follow-up.

It didn't make me feel good. Speaking of not feeling good, that fourth goal that went in. That fourth goal that went in reminded me of late Leafs career Jonas Gustafsson. Which was the fourth one? The one that went under his blocker veneers. It was just kind of like jabbed at it and it was just like under his arm. Just shot it into the net from distance yeah i would much rather have my goalie sound like that than what ilia samsonov sounded like after the game

i'm a poet i'm a people person i like the emotions that uh ilia's going through and getting to know him a little bit matt murray doesn't let us in i don't appreciate that but it is more professional i'll give you that i guess the thing is is that you want a guy who could at least get to the highs. The problem is all the goalie emotions we've seen in this market is just, I mean, no, sorry, Jack. There's no us. Just him crying after games saying he let all the boys down and he'll never be able to forgive himself. Like, you'd like to see a guy feeling good about himself at one point in time in this market. And it just seems like that can't happen.

I want the goalie to think it's everybody else's fault if i'm if i'm a player if i'm a person on the team i want the goalie to have a mentality where it's like no it's not my fault it's not my fault i don't want my goalie getting down on himself that's the worst possible scenario for me as a as a you know because it's like oh as long as he doesn't vocalize that though right i would imagine that doesn't go over her all in the room. JT, you want JT Miller in there? No, he's not. Garrett Sparks is like, we got to play better. And they lost 7-1.

My favorite. Oh, my God. We're not working hard enough. It's not your place to say. You know what I'm saying? Like a guy that's like calling out the team every night, but just a guy that in his mind, Matt Murray doesn't think last night was his fault. And I want that from a goalie because goalies in the NHL, it's so hard. Can he think that? Can he really honestly think last night was his fault. And I want that from a goalie. Because goalies in the NHL, it's so hard.

Can he think that? Can he really honestly think it wasn't his fault? Sure. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Some guys are. Man, I've tricked myself into believing some things. Oh, yeah.

Like, I'm not saying it can't happen. But yeah, that's it is an interesting point that he seems least willing to put on the brave face and turn the page a little bit more. You know who also was kind of like that? Who's that? Peter Mrazik. What? Turn the page? little bit more you know who also was kind of like that who's that peter morazic what turn the page last year remember he was like oh yep no morazic was slide whistles and car horns he was like whatever he paid me how much he's just happy to be here um you know so i i guess part of the equation then is what percentage of this do you chalk up to team defense?

The Leafs now in the last six games, I haven't given up 26 goals in the last six games. I think 18 in the last four games. That's a lot. Seems like a lot to me. Quick math. And this is a team that, you know, top five in goals against per game has been very good. Morgan Riley's back. We got to do it.

Well, it's just a conversation people are having. in goals against per game has been very good. Morgan Riley's back. We got to do it. It's just a conversation people are having. Why don't we start with Sheldon talking about team defense, and then we'll talk about team defense. You can't give up a breakaway. You can't give up that 2-1 in the third period. Aside from that, I thought we were fine. He said first period, I think they really might have had one shot. I think one of their shots came from the neutral zone.

One shot on goal in the first period. Defensively, I don't know if we can get much better than that. We made some big mistakes. The breakaway is a big mistake. This game's already 2-1. You can't make that mistake. That's one that we'd like to have back. Aside from that, it's a tough game to play when

you're constantly pulling the puck out of your net so i thought that took the life away from us a little bit but i'm not gonna overthink that part of the game because it's just a it's a funny game there we didn't do enough offensively to really gain traction and keep ourselves afloat if i could i would give sheldon key for whoever would take the money $10 to ask a follow-up question. Whose fault was the pinch goal? I loved Sammy McKee did a breakdown last night of the Giordano pinch. It's always a delight when Sam gets involved on that. I rewatched it.

Yep. And because Anthony Petrelli does awesome work. He said to me that like they they're always super aggressive with their defense. Which I understand that. But you still have to pick your spots. 100%. And there was three blue sweaters around the puck. The puck was going nowhere.

Yeah, I thought your observation was good. And he comes flying in there, and then Morgan doesn't recognize it. That, to me, is a big one to me. Your winger or your partner is all the way down in the corner. You don't stay out on the wing. You shift over to the center of the ice. And give credit to the squid. I don't know out on the wing. You shift over to the center of the ice. And give credit to the squid. I don't know which one it was, but he fired a sick pass.

No, like right on the tape to McCann who went in and shot it in the net. McCann's fast. He looked pretty good in blue and white, eh, fellas? Maybe better than Kerfoot? He's only on base for 40. What's Kerfoot on base for? Not 10? Four?

Anyways. I just, I worried about Geio over the past little bit. Like, I think. That to me is not an example of a thing that you worry about. Because it's not slow, bad legs. He generally makes good decisions. I just think it's pretty, because I'm not completely against the blame Morgan argument. Like, I will listen to that argument.

I'm here for that argument. But I don't think it's just him. No. Like, I think there's signs of all these other guys not hitting a wall but not playing great and the puck goes in the net what seems like every fifth shot yeah so it's it's it's what side of her are you on well i think i think goaltending i think well definitely goaltending i think with me with morgan what it is is that when the team didn't have him in the lineup every guy there for the most part and you know sandin will be a little

risky at times lilligran i guess as well but you just have a lot of really steady guys and i guess timmons would take a little risk but he's not playing nearly as much and morgan riley is a you know relatively speaking high event hockey player it's what he does he wants to make things happen and when you want things to happen sometimes they're going to happen but it's going to be a bad thing and it's going to end up in the back of your net and this is a guy who has needed to be this player for the leafs throughout the bulk of his nhl career because throughout the rebuilds and the retools and the kids growing up you needed somebody who could be that transition force for you and not to say you still don't want that player but the team was having so much success with the defense not making mistakes

as opposed to making things happen and it just goes to what he is as a player because i don't know how good morgan riley is if you do neuter him and you do tether him a little bit and you ask him not to do those things i don't know what you're getting out of him and can you even ask a guy to do that after he's been doing it this way for seemingly 100 years even though he's only 26 years old yeah like that's where i fall on it yeah um first off morgan riley's got to be older than that no 27 i believe really i could be wrong but i'm fairly certain just feels like he's like on that he was born in 1994 he is 28 years old 28 okay yeah two years okay no that's i'm still surprised that that's the the ballpark but still so for me it's all of those things are are correct i i do wonder if because of the ability of the leafs forwards you know one of the things we said about the leafs in riley's

absence without brody without muzzin is that they seemed patient they just seemed okay to wait in a game and wait for the opportunities and find their way through rather than try to force something create something whatever they don't seem as patient with riley they seem you know i'm thinking of the play who was it against he tried to bang it up the wall he went up the wall with it and tried to go to it was like a absolute pizza to matthews yes yeah ended up in the back of the net they lost the game to the coyotes right you know so like there's these moments where it seems like you're trying to force something trying to make something happen and so you know maybe you can't tether riley but you certainly should be able to explain to him that we don't care if you get points we trust you to have your money yeah you have your money we need to win hockey games we think the best thing for our

team from the back end is steady play is when you're 50 50 you know change your uh you know your your bars your scroll bars you know a little bit and you know you need to be 55 sure that you got a chance to go now not 50 50 anymore try and try to get them to rein it in a little bit it is a concern because i think to playoffs and the moments that have burned the leafs it's it has been their higher event guys it's been jake gardner a guy who can create a lot give you one up and give me poor jake gardner dash five and freddie gave up five beer leaguers in the third period i know one anyways continue yeah but that's a you know but it is him and it has been since riley's back that this seems to be happening so i don't blame riley

i think if the goaltending is better it's less of of a story. It's not a story at all, probably. But I do think that it's worthwhile to note to Riley that we feel like things go better when we're a little bit more patient on the back end. When you're not here. No, no, when you're not here. When we're more patient on the back end. Yeah. Yeah.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned yeah i just after watching also could it just be a few games back from injury just trying to find his game he's just not playing as well as he can but i don't think this conversation started again on last week no this conversation has been out there for a long time and i think a lot of other times he's had a guy in front of him to take the brunt of the whipping boy for sure there's always been a d that you're like oh that guy this is something we talked about last night so is justin hall not pulling his part he was supposed to be that guy how dare he yeah how about just all dash three after you wrote a nice article he wasn't very good to be honest he hasn't been very good the last few games. I snuck in my article right when I could.

But I just, like, did he have more guys now than when he was really good that can break the puck out, right? Like, think of when he had his 20-goal year, which, how did he score 20 goals? Because Ron Hainsey was that good. But he was the only guy in the back end that was really breaking the puck out i guess him and jake gardner that were really the true guys that they needed him to do that now everyone does now every guy on the back end sandin on the third pair snap it out of the zone giordano can snap it out of there brody brody like they have guys that are able to

do that and he just wants when he gets in like you just wonder about the fit with this current decor and this and there's tons of turnover on this decor guys have one year or like a couple years left in their contract the way it goes maybe it gets a little better down the road but right now with this current decor the fit seems weird like when they didn't have them in there it seemed like everybody fell into place better and they all kind of knew their roles you know what i'm saying i yeah i do but like here's where i get hung up on conversations like this is he good do you think he's good i think he's good yeah he's a really good player i think he's good skates it shoots it you know good hockey sense good good

player you know i feel like mcquee wanted to quibble with the hockey sense for half a second there you can shoot it a little bit more decisively there's an argument about puzzle pieces and you know, I feel like my queen wanted to quibble with the hockey sense for half a second there. The shooter, a little bit more decisive. There's an argument about puzzle pieces and where exactly how he's used. You know, if he's second pair and not on PP one, you know, do you love them?

Maybe that's perfect for him. You know, the way the Leafs are probably going to use him, which is, is their number one D man. Here's my only, my's my final thought on this. In almost every series against a good team in the Stanley Cup playoffs,

you are losing the battle of 1D, the number 1D. The number 1D on Tampa is going to be Hedman. The number 1D on Boston is going to be McAvoy, or Lindholm, if you like. The number 1D carolina is going to be someone like slavin or you know they got a number of guys you can pick you know almost every team you go through you're not as good at 1d yeah but you're also paying your 1d seven or this year five and a half but seven and a half after that compared to most guys getting nine and ten so

anyway are we done on riley yeah i think we think we found a middle ground of having no answer there. I think that's exactly what we ended up on. Yeah, for sure. That's the whole point of this. The thing you always have to say with Riley, when we talk about the regular season, we talk about some of his struggles. He is a really good playoff player.

And he's been great. Every team, if you're going to go on a long run in the playoffs, you need that one guy that can play 30 a night. That one guy that you lean on to play in most situations. That's the spot you're gonna go on a long run in the playoffs you need that one guy that can play 30 a night that one guy that you lean on to play in that spot you're losing though right for sure but you do need to have one of those guys that can do it yeah and i don't think you want pretty much anyone else on the lease playing 30 minutes a night god no no right and he's he is that love tj brody he's not 30 minute guy riley is that guy and he like you said you made me say you're not that guy pal you're not that guy would die three times if he played 30 minutes a night

he's the most unlucky guy he is defense nick robertson except he's actually proved it in the nhl yeah it is impossible for him to play a game without going to the room to get i like went to get a snack last night and i saw the thing that Sandin went to the room again. You know, I was like, come on. Like, it's just, it's not his fault so often, right? But it's just like, every, I don't. They did a nice thing last night. They reviewed it.

They did the review of the penalty. And I'm so happy that's a thing. Because there's a long time where it wasn't a thing and they're just like, I didn't see it. And they went to it. They talked to the linesman. They had a look and they gave him a four minute penalty. They did nothing. I didn't see it. And they went to it. They talked to the linesman. They had a look, and they gave him a four-minute penalty. They did nothing.

Or didn't they? No, they scored at the end of that power play. You know, I do have a theory, though, on guys like this, and it's that they're all 5'11". So this is not a, like, even like a that means small. That means, I know, you know, Connor Carrick was a guy. He might be under 5'11". He's a guy that every time you see him, he's got black eyes and a broken nose because his head is at that height of shoulders.

Andreas Janssen, who was with the Marlies when I was there, guy is constantly black and blue. Especially when he gets smoked by that ref. I was going to say Dan Kelly was at the ref. Yeah, that too. You know, everyone I know that plays and constantly gets black and blue and hurt and whatever that seems to be the danger height to be it's just how it's always been with Sandin like I want to say it might not have been his very first game in the NHL but it was really

early on in his career and he had a game against the wings and it's just right away just stuck his nose in a place where it shouldn't have gone and he got popped but the thing you like about him is that he has never once been like not going to do that again if anything it emboldens him it's like great I've already broken the nose you made me taste my own blood honestly and nobody does that uh like yeah you really like that about him but you're right it's just like can you trust him

to ever and luckily he skirted injury these past few games but like how much can you honestly expect from him because he just seems to be constantly banged up he does um well you know in terms of things that we started talking about on the air or off the air before we got on the air, the push for Pontus to the All-Star game got a boost last night when Pontus Holmberg was put on the second line in the third period to get a sniff with the big boys. Deserves it. Best player in the NHL, really. No, he's really good. I'm sorry.

Like, he is a great bottom six guy. Yeah. Go ahead. I was just going to say, the thing I said to you guys before the game is he's on power play too. He's on the flank. He gets a puck and he's under duress. Guy comes in on the power play.

He stick handles it under the guy, then passes it on his back end up to the point. And I can't help but be like, huh, don't see that from a lot of bottom six guys. You know, like he's got, he's played in that Swedish league for years. There is more ability since he's 12 years old.'s been in the swedish hockey league whatever it is i think this guy you know we we joke about a lot but pretty good hockey player here oh you guys were joking i thought this was my safe space to come in here and just be like oh one of us one of us yeah i i love him you don't want to get overstated about a guy who's your right not that impactful but you know you mentioned that play overstated about a guy who's your right not that impactful

but you know you mentioned that play there was another one where he's streaking through the middle he does a real slick kind of puck reception pulls it between himself kicks it up to him through his skates regains control and it's just he he has comfortability with the puck like he's comfortable and it goes back to what i say about bunting and you know it's a little different but these guys who know how to play with talented players. Now, with Holmberg, it seems more a little skill-based than, you know, mind-sense-based, the way bunting is. He can think the game with those guys.

But Holmberg definitely has some skill that you do want to give him some looks. And especially in a game last night where, you know, with a team like the Leafs where they're locked into where they're going to be in the playoffs. Maybe they get home ice. Maybe they don't, but they're going to play the lightning. You need to experiment. You need to try things. That's why I have no problem with the five forwards on the power play,

and especially you're getting pasted 5-1 for the third period. What are you doing? Give them a look up there. So, yeah, I really like it. One of my dad's core takes when it comes to Leafs is, oh, they just need somebody to come out of the woodwork from the Marlies and just contribute. And I'm like, this is the guy. This is the guy. AMACac your take finally came true it's like a guy that's like a was he a seventh

sixth rounder is it andy yeah andy amac great guy yeah he just he's just like it's true it's they finally found a guy that can come up and just play on your team and contribute yes no it makes such a difference when you have a guy and you're not asking him to be a world beater. And this is why we have complained about the Morgans in the past and guys that, like, you can't see a fit for a small-skilled guy, but you can see a fit for a guy who wins face-offs and can make plays. Of all the things we could sell sponsorships on the show, I think there's Sheldon Keefe clips, like Keefe's Corner or something, or Kip's Clips, AMAX takes.

I'm here for them. If we can sell any of these takes, I'm in. I hate your lesson. We'll move on. All right. We need to move on as well. We've got Emily Kaplan joining us from ESPN after this. Looking forward to that.

Sammy Cosentino is going to join us at 4.15 to talk about, oh, Team Canada, Conor Bernard, and all the rest. But first, Emily, we'll go around the NHL, talk about the All-Star Game and all the rest but first emily talk about uh we'll go around the nhl talk about the all-star game and all the rest gunner we'll be right back after this welcome back to real kipper and born i am justin born we're with brent gunning today which is absolutely wonderful and even more wonderful. No offense, Gunning. No, definitely more wonderful. But we are now joined by Emily Kaplan of ESPN. Emily, how's it going today?

I'm doing great. How are you guys? We're doing very well. Thank you. Before you came on, we were just chit-chatting about what a gigantic famous person you are now. And one of the things we were discussing was being on Around the Horn. I know it's been years now that you've been being on that show,

a little bit on ESPN, but I was in the U.S. for many years of my life and watched it for years. I just want to know what that experience is like. What a cool show that is. It's the coolest. And, honestly, I'm so grateful for the producers and Tony Reale, the host of that show, because that was the first show at ESPN that really gave me my first regular reps.

It's super fast-paced. It's super improvised. And I think because I did that show, I was prepared to work on live hockey broadcasts, which for a lot of people who work in the sports industry, it's really challenging. As you guys know, it's nonstop auction all the time. But I'll tell you, behind the scenes,

everyone is exactly as they appear on TV. People are super competitive about it. It is kind of a family, but there's like, if one person replies on the email chain, like, there goes your evening. You know, I'm so happy to hear that because you do watch those, a lot of argument shows, and I air quotes that because a lot of times it's staged, right? It's a lot of, all right, everyone has their talking points. So you genuinely go into that not knowing what's going to be said yeah well you know we know the topics

ahead of time we get a little bit of prep there but um we don't really know what the other panelists are going to say where tony's going to take the conversation sometimes he kind of pivots on where he wants to go with it so i think that's why it has lasted so long on tv because it's just so authentic and i think people can cut through some of the, you know, scripted elements and people don't really want that. People want authenticity. Yeah, well, it's funny because when it started, I think over 20 years ago, I kind of thought Reale was a goomba. Turns out he's a wonderful guy and everyone loves him and he's a family man and all that. So I got nothing but good things to say about him and the show.

I'll be Reale here and turn this to uh to the nhl and to the toronto maple leafs first and foremost uh you know we're it's nowhere near the trade deadline but everything that everyone does right now revolves around what they're missing what they need it feels like the three of the biggest buyers are in the same divisions with the division here at the leafs bruins and lightning do you think the three of them are basically going to be trying to outbid one another for some of the bigger names out there? Yeah, I don't know if the Lightning can. They're the one team that I always pause on

because Julian Brisebois always has something up his sleeve, and he's like, no, I'm not going to do anything. I can't do anything, and then boom, goes and does something. I just feel like they don't have the assets anymore to really give up those first-round picks or those top prospects they really don't have to go after some of the bigger names. Whereas when I look at the least and the Bruins, I see two teams. They're like, our window is now. And for two different reasons, you know,

at least there's a lot of jobs on the line, plain and simple. Do you have to blow up this roster? Do not. Do you keep this GM? Do you keep this coach? Do not like you need to get past that hump. And for the Bruins, I mean, I've covered a couple of their games early. It's win one for Bergie. And like they have something so special here. I think they're the best team I've seen so far this year that because this window is short with this court, they want to do it. You know, they have no idea how much money they're going to have to give David Pasternak.

They know it's going to be a lot like let's go all in now and we'll figure out future problems later. Yeah, definitely. The Bruins are staring down a big, big contract for David Pasternak. And I think they're totally fine with that because he's absolutely earning it. You know, I just keep looking at that team and it's incredible the turnover that they've been able to have. You know, we think of them as the same core together and it is the same, you know, core

of four or five guys, but they add in Lindholm. They've completely overhauled the goaltending there. You have to just tip your cap to them you know I here we've been all bogged down and I'm not going to ask you about the particulars of the tournament but we're all bogged down in the world juniors Conor Bedard he's coming and I'm thinking top of mind you know I'm sitting here and I have my preferred destinations for what seems like the NHL's next generational talent there obviously has been a lot of talk about the desert and the coyotes and

everything going on there do you have a kind of preferred destination for where you think the nhl needs to inject some life yeah well if i'm in the league office i'm saying arizona right because they're desperate to make that project work um i live in chicago i know the fan base here feels like they deserve it um which i know I'm sure everyone else is rolling their eyes. Maybe not. Yeah, like go through this rebuild the long and hard way like the rest of us. A city I was just in that was really interesting, I was there last night, was Columbus. And, you know, they have so much young,

they've drafted really well in the last few years. And they've got some young talent that's like on the cusp. You saw Jerichek in that tournament. I mean, Kent Johnson's playing in the top line right now with Johnny Gaudreau. Cole Sillinger is going to be a stud in this league. I feel like it would be super fun to see all of these kids grow up together. And like if you have Conor Bedard to the mix, like holy cow, this could be that super team pretty quickly. And by pretty quickly, I mean like three, four years from now.

But I think that's a team and a market that's kind of been overlooked over the years. They've never, you know, they were telling me that they always get the worst luck in the draft lottery. So I'm kind of rooting for them. They're kind of my underdogs. And I wouldn't mind for him to come to an American market. But look, I'm based in the U.S. I'm totally planted down here in the U.S. Yeah, fair enough.

I think ESPN and TNT would like to see that Chicago suggestion just fine. Probably Philly, too. A couple of good spots for them. You know, looking at where we are at the NHL calendar, the All-Star game is nearly upon us. They've named some of the players. How do you feel about the fan selection process? Is this the NHL going about it the right way by letting fans decide who should be in?

Look, if you listen to the NHL, they're like, we looked at the data. We talked to a lot of people. What the fans want. I know that nothing is ever going to appease everybody. Personally, I feel like we're always trying to evolve the event, and that's great. I kind of just want us to bring it back old school. Let's just do

hard to shot. Do fast to skater. Let the guys have dodgeball style and pick their own teams and, you know, show the friendship to the rivalries in the league that way. And that said, like, I'm always, you know, one that's in favor of innovation. You know, I think that there's a lot of people this event speaks to. I think it's a really great way to engage with the youth, with the younger players. So, hey, if this is what's going to get the fans engaged and invested in it, and maybe

we can get some fun storylines of a guy that, you know, is beloved in the league, but not necessarily have all-star numbers get there, like, so be it. That's like, I'm not going to be a grinch about this. Yeah, I have no problem with the all-star format. And you know, it's funny, you say there's nothing that can make everybody happy. I don't even know if there's a format that makes a single person happy. I don't know that they've ever revamped this and people have been like,

oh, I do like that one. Although I will say I would take a uh north america versus the world format like we used to do but that's just because i want matthews and mcdavid uh playing together that's just my own uh kind of kind of fever dream there you know one guy who has been named to the all-star team definitely the biggest breakout player in the nhl this year is tage thompson and he to me feels like uh something that we should warn gms, because I feel like there's going to be a lot of GMs who get their hands on a guy who's 6'6", with a little bit of pedigree, who hasn't quite figured it out, and said, we can turn this guy into our next Tage Thompson.

And, you know, they always say you can't teach size, but there's a lot else that he has, the shot, the hands, that you can't teach as well. You know, as remarkable as a story as Thompson has been, it feels like we're going to see two or three GMs get burned by thinking they can lock the next one up the way Buffalo did before he really took off. Yeah, you know, the lesson I take away from Cage Thompson, too, is patience. Like, how many people are ready to write off that trade?

Like, oh, the Sabres are losers. Ryan O'Reilly, like, the Blues got the best player. Like, trust me, the Blues got their Stanley Cup. Like, they'll take Cage Thompson back. And he wasn't even, like, the only piece of best player. Trust me, the Blues got their Stanley Cup. They'll take Tate Johnson back. He wasn't even the only piece of that trade. It was Tate Johnson end. It was a pretty massive package. I just think patience is lost in the NHL in so many ways.

The teams that I really appreciate right now are the Sabres, are the New Jersey Devils, where they've built it the right way. It's been hard, and you've had to have top prospects like a Tate Thompson down in the AHL. the fan base is like, what are we doing here? But if you do it the right way and you build it the right way, that's the way you get sustainable results. And, you know, I just think that team building mentality is a microcosm for what we're seeing

with page and for cage, like it wasn't the most linear path, but like he stuck with it. Um, he had the adversity and now he's so better prepared for sustained success and maybe if he you know had started the league right away as a teenager um you know and had it easy so um maybe those are the lessons we take away from it at least i hope yeah absolutely and you know what's so crazy is that guy sits uh right behind connor mcdavid and goals 30 goals right now and one ahead of a Alex Ovechkin has 29 goals on the season. It's January 6th today.

Seems like a pretty crazy story as you know, it's been covered. I would say excessively this season, the Ovechkin chase for Wayne Gretzky. One thing we've talked about on this show, Emily, is just, you know, the whole Russia, Ukraine war and Putin's on his Instagram page and all that. And, you know, you're with a major network. How is the political side of the Ovechkin world affecting coverage of his chase for Gretzky? It's a complicated question.

And, you know, I'm not sure I necessarily know the right answer. I'm not sure there is a right answer. It's pretty blurry for a lot of us. I work for ESPN. It's pretty blurry for a lot of us. I work for ESPN. It's a sports network. We cover sports. This is one of the greatest goal scorers we've ever seen in our generation doing something absolutely incredible. I'm going to cover what he does on the ice. I don't know, quite frankly, enough nuances about the level of his support, really the risk that he's taking of not taking down that Instagram photo to speak on it qualified.

So that's kind of how I've handled it. I know that for some people that's not satisfactory and I apologize for that, but I've tried to, you know, separate it in the same way that, you know, I would hope people would try to give nuance to these situations where just because you want to assume one thing and it paints an easy story, it doesn't necessarily mean that's the story. Yeah, it is a extremely complicated issue. And i think we all kind of have different feelings on it i think some people are capable of compartmentalizing these things i mean you've

seen this with actors who have and you know ovechkin hasn't himself done anything not to go down this rabbit hole here but you see this people are able to separate the artists from the art and i think that's the kind of thing everybody's quibbling with uh in their own way uh one other team I wanted to ask you about Emily is is Vegas you know for for my money uh in the viewing I saw when they were here in Toronto that's as good of a hockey team as there is in the NHL now I I'm looking at the records I see what the Bruins have done I can't say anybody's better than Boston but I mean I'm I'm sitting here and looking at Vegas as a big time cup contender do you see anything they could potentially be adding?

I mean, I know they have their kind of storybook, Cinderella story with the goaltending going on there. It's always hard to add at that position. What could you see Vegas doing to kind of bolster themselves? Because they seem primed for another big, big run. Yeah, I'm not going to lie to you. They're one of the teams I haven't covered this year. I haven't had any one of their games.

They do in the second half. I haven't really even heard much rumors about what they're looking to do or able to do at the trade deadline. So I'm not sure I can totally give you an answer here. I am just equally as impressed as you are, though, because as a team, I was like, hmm, they're ready for regression. And I think the goaltending is a story there, the fact that it has held up. But the fact that Jack Eichel looks this good and is know, and is living up to it after really a tough two plus years for him.

And, and last year being an acclimation year, like I'm just happy for him. And I'm happy for that fan base. Cause you know, as much as we roll their eyes and say like, they feel like they deserved it. Like it's good for the lead to see them doing well.

And you know, nobody wants to have to take that step back. And it seems like they've avoided it for now. They're born on third base, but they seem to be enjoying it. It's a good place to be. One more for you before we let you go. This time of year is not typically a time of high player movement. You keep a pretty close tab on this sort of thing.

Do you expect to see any of the bigger names? Bo Horvat obviously comes up quite a bit. Eric Carlson is rumored as, you know, potentially an object. Do you think we'll see some bigger names moved in the months ahead, or is this going to come down to the trade deadline and then disappoint us like usual? Yeah. You know, it's so true.

Like Payne and Taze and O'Reilly and Terrence Echo. Like Taze don't want to leave. Like I live in Chicago. Like, I'm telling you, like, that's a real possibility. They could go. One of them could go. Both of them could go. But they also might not.

O'Reilly, that's a tough deal to get done. Like, Tereschenko, he's been on the trade block for two years. Like, he gets full say. Seems like the devils. Everyone's like, oh, my goodness. Like, look at them. Like, they've got to add. They've got to add.

Every time I talk to Tom Fitzgerald, their GM this year, he's like, we're not doing anything this year to sacrifice the larger plan. And like, I philosophically do not believe in rental players. So, like, I'm a little hesitant to say they're going to be big buyers. So my point is, I do think that is another year with a lot of hoopla, a lot of, you know, conjecture. There will be guys that move. Beau Horvat, I'm pretty sure he's going to be on the move. Timo Meier is a name that I keep hearing again and again. Jacob Chikrin, although that one could push

to the summer as well. The truth is everyone's waiting because everyone's pressed up against the salary cap. Everyone's waiting for all that cap space to accrue. Some teams do want to get deals done early to better their odds for this really amazing draft class. Maybe we get one big trade in the coming

weeks, but it'll probably come down to the wire. All right. Well, thank you for all the information, everything, Emily, best of luck the rest of the year and hope to chat with you again soon. Thanks guys.

Have a good one. Thanks, Emily. That's Emily Kaplan of ESPN at Emily M Kaplan. Very knowledgeable and around the horn. Yeah. Specialist. I,

I, you, you'll get a little chuckle out of this. I'd love to do that show just because I'd need the dopamine hit of somebody telling me my points were so good all the time like yeah great job gunning how would it feel when you're not getting points though devastating well i mean it's just kind of life right i mean i'm making points for for an hour and change now and sam mckee hasn't told me one of them was good didn't give me a single point so i don't know i did i you know i was in arizona for i lived there for three years from

09 to 2012 vaguely somewhere in there and that was a part of my daily routine was pti and around the horn and around the horn always felt like a show that i would hate to be on that would stress me out i don't like confrontation it's just not it's actually the real the fear of being on a show with nick caprios was the same thing i was like am i gonna have to fight with someone every day but no it's nice i come in give you a nice vacation i'm like i'm like herbal tea on this show i am now joined by camomile this is lovely can i give you my quick eric carlson like quasi conspiracy theory about the trade deadline please do he's not going anywhere and uh you know various insiders i'm not just at our place obviously there are plenty

insiders everywhere they're throwing them out there as a name to have on the board when inevitably there's no moves to be made or everyone gets dealt ahead of time. He has four years left and like $100 million. It's 11 change for four more years. It's not going anywhere. They're not retaining half of it for four more years. It feels like a name that is added to bolster the trade deadline stock

so that if a Bo Horvat or O'Reilly or whoever goes ahead of time, it's like you still have your big fish to talk about on deadline. I would say the most stunning thing about working with Nick Kiprios has been him mentioning Carlson for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah. I'll floor it when I hear it. What's that? Multiple times.

And it just seems like the last guy they need. It's like, what if Morgan Riley took more risks? But you know, on the other hand hand of course he scores a bajillion points which riley can't always be counted on to do but i don't know seems seems like a long shot the thing i'll say about carlson is just and i you know i'm i am who i am i'm a leaf fan grew up on the battle of ontario could not stand the guy in the sense but so happy to

see him kind of refined his nhl life because it's just, he is truly, there are a lot of amazing players in the NHL, but there aren't that many one-of-ones. And he is just his own entity. He is truly a unique guy and thrilled to see he found it after, who was it who tore up his Achilles? Was it Matt Cook? Oh, yeah.

Was it on purpose or not? Yeah, that's right. All right. I also love, I think, was it you, Mourny, that said this? That if you're going to trade Carlson and he's got four years left of playing meaningless hockey in a sick city where he just doesn't have to worry about anything. You're like, yeah, we're good. He's like, you're going to trade me where?

He's like, I nixed that, sir. I would like. I'll go to Anaheim. Yeah, he's drinking a pina colada on a tube going down a lazy river in san jose goes out there yeah goes out there gets four points hits the beach just like that no one cares like yeah i think he's good standing 38 media members being like i heard you yelled at a teammate morning skate you know he's like i think i'll pass on toronto i'm gonna yell at you bud yeah it doesn't sound great so what do you honestly expect when we come in here on march 4th is march 3rd deadline

when we're sitting here doing the march 4th show what have the toronto maple leafs done from now till then to change this roster i'll go first to give you a second on it i think they do a deal they do a couple of deals i think the first one is someone like this is all sam mckee speedy small winger well barbachev is not huge from st louis but he did score 26 last year he's a left winger doesn't make a ton of money there's going to be a bidding war for him he's a it's a rental yep but someone like barbachev probably makes sense gosh i hope i get this right and we get to replay it on march 4th um there's uh another d-man has been brought in

probably gabrikov you know he seems like well i mean that's the one that you you can't believe they spent this much on him whatever but i someone like that that's not a huge name but it's supposed to help them and the only thing i don't know is if we need a new goalie by then. And I say we, because I cover this team enough, all right? Man, that's the concern for me, is I'd love to sit here and say exactly what you said. Add on D, even though I don't know that they need it,

but I do think that will end up happening. And Forward, who is somewhat sexy, but not as sexy as you would like. It's not Bo Horvath. It's not Ryan O'Reilly. Who, by the way, we found out before the show. And, you know, take this with all the grains of salt. But dead last in the NHL in plus minus.

Selkie Trophy, minus 28. By the way, still not good enough to win this week's golf tournament. Was it the Century Open last week? Yes. Colin Morikawa. Last year was one at minus 34. So O'Reilly needs to shoot 66. He's got some time.

He's got some time. Okay. And then, but I do really worry about the goaltending. You know, I know McKee's been banging this drum. I was right there with him. I was really hoping the Jets are going to stink this year. And you can go pilfer hell you buck. But that's not happening.

I don't know who the guy you go out there and get is. But I'd be lying to you if I'm not very concerned about the goaltending. It's not going to be't know who the guy you go out there and get is but i'd be lying to you if i'm not very concerned about the goaltending it's not going to be this bad all year long they will get back above 900 but that's not good enough for me or anyone for that matter so that's that's still a big concern for me is the goalies unless matt murray heads to robita island these are the two goalies you don't think there's any way they come to the conclusion that it's just not one of them has to go, they're not good enough? Well, whatever money, you'd have to move out one of the two guys, and that's the money.

Don't see it. No. They've kind of made, Murray with the extra year, right? He is kind of a lock. And what are you going to get for $1.75 million that's going to be any better? So if you think, just in conjunction with this if i don't know well if you think gabrikov is coming in in theory that means a defender's going out or lilligren or sandin or just sitting that's it probably yeah i think they think they're going to need eight or nine d and in the playoffs i think

everyone kind of believes that i think lilligren probably have some value oh that's a chip i think yeah which i don't know because he does yeah he does have value and i think you know they would want to keep it let me tell you let me tell you that is a that is a classic three playoffs from now that guy's playing in a conference final and everyone's saying how are they let this pocket how are they let this guy go it's just it's the most classic thing so what do you think sam for the other positions if you're gonna make a big swing for another defenseman that you're just gonna place in there like i like what lilligren's bought brought but i also remember the rest of his career like yeah yeah no it's not that you can't trade i think his value is pretty high right now like i don't think there's a world in which one of the guys that's on the decor right

now is a part of a trade for another demon i agree i agree with that like i don't think there's a world in which one of the guys that's on the D-Core right now is a part of a trade for another D-Man. I agree. I agree with that. Like, I don't think that's a crazy statement. If you are Columbus, you would want someone who's going to help you as you turn things around and you have Conor Bedard and Lilligrens in the back end. Like, he has to have some value. Oh, yeah. And Sandin, too, has to have some value.

For sure. So, I don't know. I wouldn't be heartbroken to see one of those guys as part of a big... Depending on the return. Yes. Do you think then, do you expect them to to what do you think for up front indeed you think there's big moves or do you think this is classic dube as he gets labushkin and i really think that he was kicked in the you know what by the felino thing yeah like i really do think that scared him and i think he's still feeling that in

his guts if you know what i mean My male audience will understand that reference. But I just, I don't, I don't know if he's ready. Is he going to go out there and spend the first on Timo Meier? Like, is that something that he's going to do? That was interesting. I go the other way on it. I think you're right. He got kicked in the you-know-where by Nick Foligno.

But I think he'll, and you know him better than any of us, I think the lesson that would be gleaned out of that would be the opposite one because it wasn't Nick Foligno or nobody. It was Nick Foligno or Taylor Hall. And it was the idea of do you get the quote unquote safer guy who is going to play the game the right way and not cheated and his dad played on the team and all that stuff. Or do you go get the guy who's a first overall pick

and has won a heart trophy in this league? And they made the wrong choice there. And, you know, Taylor Hall can't't win and we all had that conversation but i if anything i would say he goes the other way having been having been burned on the quote-unquote safe decision yeah yep so lots of time on this one so timo meyer i hope you guys like that conversation because you'll be hearing many versions of it between now and march 3rd. He makes $6 million this year, Timo Mayer. Yeah, problem is his qualifying offer is $10 million. Okay. So I don't even know what that means.

That's a situation you worry about after you trade for him. They chucked him. Right. Yeah, basically. Oh, no, I was just going to say that he's really good. Mayer's really good, yeah. Really, really good. Yeah, and on a good team, he could matter.

He is a left winger. Oh. He's bigger than I thought he was, too on a good team, he could matter. He is a left winger. Oh. Like, it's a, he's bigger than I thought he was, too. He's 6'1", 220. Like, he's a bigger guy than you think he would be. I'm sorry, Timo Meyers, 220? Yeah, that's what it says on NHL.com. Also bigger than I thought.

6'1", 220. Guy that skates fast, shoots the puck in the net. And I looked up Barberchev. Barberchev, 6'1", 90. The whole Blues team, just heavy. Yeah. The Barberchev's not huge no i know yeah i know um so yeah plenty of those conversations ahead when uh we're going to be

joined by sam cosentino after this talk about all the world junior excitement the you know potential draft and all that and then you and i are going to talk about our all-star picks because there are plenty to choose from the fans this year gonna vote three players per division so we are going to pick three players per division and and we're gonna do text as well at 595 90 and on the youtubes if you're watching the youtubes please at me so i will see your question i hope torts is listening yeah we will talk about torts in the all-star game uh ask our some questions 595 90 and yeah we will be back in oh i don't know a few minutes see you then welcome back to real kipper and gunning and mckee and now joined by another name sammy cosentino sammy cos what's J.D., what's going on, man?

Nothing, nothing. We're just discussing. You know what actually we were just discussing is J.J. Watt explaining to a teammate the rules of hockey. Did you know that J.J. Watt can skate? I did not know that. He's a giant moose of a man. Get him on the left side.

Yeah, he'd be great for the Leafs. He'd be Tom Wilson plus. What's going on where are you at did you go to the world juniors what's happening world juniors all done on a flight to montreal for a game here tomorrow night lovely oh yeah i'm doing color tomorrow night so switching roles it's uh it's cool to be doing different things nice that's That's great, man. Well, we always appreciate you coming on, giving us a little bit of this junior stuff that we don't get to watch as much.

What did you leave as a takeaway from this World Junior Tournament? Any sort of over big picture thoughts from Team Canada, the World Juniors at large? Big picture thoughts in terms of the world? Like everybody is better. Slovaks are better. The Swiss are better. The Czechs obviously were in the final are better.

The Americans disappointed and sort of the Swedes a little bit, even the Finns for that matter, but they're always in that top tier. So I'm not concerned about those countries. That's probably one takeaway. The next would be overall to see draft eligible talent play in meaningful impactful situations throughout the event for all different countries was also really really impressive and more specifically from a canadian standpoint i i have a great appreciation for this group because when you're told going in that you're

the best team ever assembled and then you go out and lose your first game the pressure playing at home is immense and they overcame that to come to to go and win so i thought that i that that was probably the big takeaway from a team canada standpoint for me yeah i mean overreactions are uh definitely a certain part of this tournament and man were they flying after that first game and lo and behold it's shekia that they end up playing in the final so yeah k kudos to those guys. And obviously, we want to ask you about a ton of the Canadians, but you mentioned Slovakia there, and obviously they had the great quarterfinal against Canada.

They really, really pushed them. I think, you know, nobody who watched that game didn't leave it with a ton of respect for the Slovakian team. But I'd be lying if I was watching it saying, what are the Canadians thinking not having Slavkovski there? You know, I understand they burned the year. They want him up in the NHL. You want to keep him in control in your system.

I understand all that. But don't you think it would have been a huge boon for him to go and be a part of that great team? And, you know, they pushed Canada hard without him. Who knows if he could have tipped the scales one way or another. Do you think it was a mistake on Montreal's part not to send him? Well, it's interesting. I haven't looked far enough down their depth chart,

but when I look at their roster now, and all due respect to an Anthony Richard player who I watched grow in Val d'Or and fight his way year after year to get to the National Hockey League, my guess is the depth in Laval maybe wouldn't allow for that to happen. So, you know, Slavkovsky's obviously playing a bigger role. They want to continue to mentor him.

I do believe those experiences are really, really important, you know, for going and winning. And maybe the Montreal Canadiens feel that they've, you know, they had that experience of Slovakia winning a bronze at the, you know, at the Olympics for the first time in the country's history I kind of would have liked to see him there to be honest with you but I can't speak to what the depth looks like in the organization for for a team that's continually losing here I think six straight the run is now so again that that's a delicate one to kind of

answer but for me I don't think those experiences going back and playing with your peers to a give you confidence and b allow you to be a key part on the team and like you say maybe push them forward into a into a metal game would have been pretty cool too yeah we were talking before the show like it's crazy that nick robertson didn't go be a part of the american team when he had the opportunity um you know easy to say hindsight 2020 but um those are those are good experiences for the kids. But you know what, though, Borny? Here's the other thing I'll say about it.

And, you know, Kent Hughes is a guy who thinks outside the box. I'm not so sure he didn't approach Uriah himself and say, hey, you know, what do you want to do here? Sure, good point. When you're making that kind of money, that's pretty tough to leave. And then you think, all right, if I leave and something goes goofy or we start to play well in Montreal and I don't get my spot back,

there goes the big paycheck and get back on the bus to Laval too. So I'm not so sure that that conversation wasn't had knowing Kent Hughes. He's a good communicator. He thinks outside the box. Maybe he did ask Slavkovski and maybe Slavkovski said, you know what?

I want to be here with the team that I'm on, and I want to be here for a long time, so I'm going to stay. Yeah, no, that's a really good point, Kaz. It's tough to know how those conversations went down. One of the ones that we have had a conversation about on sort of a big-picture level, too, is Shane Wright, right? This is a guy who's a source of much conversation. We know the background now. A few games with Seattle and all that, and he's headed back.

What did you make of his tournament, and what do you expect is happening now with the next, I don't know, few months of his career? Yeah, it's going to be fascinating. I mean, it looks as if Brant Clark's going back to Barry, and I'd say for Seattle, you know, they've gotten to where they are, bouncing in and out of a playoff position,

for the most part, without Shane Wright all year, so wouldn't he benefit from the experience of going back? I kind of think so. I'll say this about his tournament. He was good. He was not great until the final game. I thought he was absolutely brilliant. He looked like U18 Shane Wright to me. He was winning battles.

He was engaged. He was 53% in the face-off circle when he'd had difficulties in that area the two games previously against the U.S. and Slovakia. He was making plays. His goal, I thought, was excellent. You know, it comes off the blade in a hurry. Probably a little bit before Suhanik expected it to,

goes top shelf. That was a really important goal. All told, the three NHLlers ended up with the most impact in the game there i think clark had to assist right at a goal and gunther obviously with his two goals so i i think i i really appreciated his game he looked a lot more like the shane right that was projected to be number one overall than i'd seen him since the 2021 summer when he won gold with canada at the under 18s yeah and you know again we don't need to rehash it but it's been just such an odd six months going back to the draft and did he

stare down the canadians so for him to kind of have this capper on it and you know be it back in the nhl or whether he ends up getting dealt to peterborough or wherever it may be in the o uh hopefully this can kind of uh kind of reset things for him because it's definitely a weird weird summer there um we've been good we haven't asked about conor bedard yet it's time to put a stop to that uh he's generational we got to ask you about him i i think the the first place i want to start with you is do you see a comp for him you know we always try to do this with a player coming up he's like a this or much like a lot of these guys is he just kind of a one-of-one or is there somebody you do see you know bits and pieces of in his game i i tend to think he's more kind of a one-of-one but uh jason buccal we work with the pro hockey group uh i defer to him and these matters have been in the business at that level for such a

long time and reading his piece on sportsnet.ca today says he's a little bit cane a little bit marner and a little bit matthews and i like that and i'll take it to be honest with you i didn't see much of the cane previously to the tournament because every time you watch a highlight, he's scoring goals. He's scoring 50 goals every year. Why wouldn't you just show the goals? What impressed me most about his play at the tournament is his playmaking ability. I didn't know he had it in him to make the kind of plays he was making.

No look stuff. He's a threat off the rush coming down the wing because you always think he's going to try that weak side goal line shot. He deferred off of that a couple of times and set up some unbelievable plays. Honestly, there was probably five or six points left in the bag for guys

not being able to finish. Obviously, you're not going to finish every opportunity, but probably five or six points left in the bag from his ridiculous playmaking. That's an element that I hadn't quite seen or maybe appreciated before in his game. But that part, it's really good too. Yeah, you see Matthew's shot.

You see some of the Marner push-outs when it looks like he's going to pull it across and he'll push it back out and take it wider. So, yeah, I definitely see some of those traits there. You know, in terms of the future of Canadian hockey, no big deal here. You know, when I look at Olympic teams and whatever we map out for Canada, there's no goalies cause.

Like, you know, Logan Thompson is the best Canadian goalie. Carter Hart, who is it? Like, we don't really know. Is there a guy that's on the way as Millich, one of these guys that can do it? Well, he wasn't to this point. He's been through the draft twice. He plays in Seattle, so it's sort of an underrated market. Dennis Williams is the head coach in Everett. They play Seattle all the time.

He knew what he was getting into when he brought, you know, in part brought Millich onto the team. I don't think he's that guy. I based on size alone maybe six feet maybe just a shade over about 180 pounds you know you and i talked about this before like some of these goalies are they're just so wiry like you expect them to be bigger people maybe like frederick anderson but frederick anderson is more the exception than he is the norm right so when i'm looking at goalies right now um and i haven't really thought much about the the 2006 uh born group but if i'm looking at the 2005s you saw um the goaltender for uh the u.s you know he got pulled after a couple of goals he was doing a really good job there in goal for uh for the u.s before he got

yanked giving up five goals in two periods against the Swedes. And he'd given up five the night before, before an empty dinner to Canada. But I'm talking about Canadian goalies. There's not one on my radar right now that I look and say, all right, this guy's the next big thing. The one guy I will say that probably is the best of the lot is Connor Bjarnason who plays for their Brandon week. He may end up slipping here into the first round, 6'3 guy, super calm, really poised.

He's athletic, yet in control of his movements. So he's a guy maybe we're hanging our hopes on here moving forward. But having said that, you know, a guy in his first year of draft eligibility, if he's that good, if he's that elite, maybe why wasn't he on this world junior team? You have Gaudreau as an incumbent. You have Milic as a guy that maybe the coaching staff knew better. Tough to say, but he'd be the guy.

Carter Bjarnason, who plays in Brandon. Do you give any credence to the idea that it's just all risk and no reward if you're a Canadian goalie and it just doesn't seem that much fun? Yes, we go back in the annals of this tournament and Mark Denis, and he was great, and Marc-Andre Fleury, before he shot it off Patrick O'Sullivan there we go back in the annals of this tournament and Mark Denis and, you know, he was great. And, you know, Marc-Andre Fleury before he shot it off Patrick O'Sullivan and in the back of the net. You know, there have been guys, Carey Price, of course, Justin Pogge had a moment in this tournament. But it feels like generally speaking, when we talk about this country winning, especially at this level, it's boy, would you look at all the future first line studs in the NHL that they have in great decor. And it just feels to me like the goalie, it's you do your job and you're part of the team

or you're the guy wearing the goat horns. Do you give any credence to that being the reason why we're kind of having trouble developing goalies as a country? That may be part of it. But here's what I think is the issue. First of all, you have goalies who are groomed from the age of six or seven years old. I don't believe that's the way to go about it. You're specializing at that position at such a young age, so you're missing out on what other sports have to offer.

Oftentimes, I look at the glove hand and how many goalies can actually catch a puck clean because they've never played baseball. All the old guys played baseball growing up. That's why they had some ability with their glove. The next part is when I look at other nations, there seems to be kind of a general plan on how they train their goalies and how they develop their goalies. And it's not always by playing goal, like I said, but there's also a nice set of guidelines in which someone can still use their personal attributes,

yet fit in the country's guidelines. When I look at the competition here in Canada, and think about some of the hotbeds, whether's in bc or in quebec or in ontario or maybe out west i think what you have is such great competition that while hockey canada when you're with hockey canada and you're one of those elite goalies you're taught to do things a certain way but that's only before and after you've gone to see your own specialized goalie coach whose thoughts might be a little bit different on how to play the position than what you get with the national team program but everyone's trying to keep up with the joneses oh i go see this guy i'm gonna go see that guy that guy played the show for so long that guy was with hockey canada

and so you have all of these varying tactics and techniques in which our goalies are being trained and developed yet okay now you have to conform because varying tactics and techniques in which our goalies are being trained and developed. Yet, okay, now you have to conform because you're with Hockey Canada. Now you have to conform because you're with the Sherbrooke Phoenix. Now you have to conform because this is the guy you use in the summer. And I think all of those varying variances makes it really difficult for a kid to be confident enough to know what he is within the confines of some general guidelines like we're seeing in other countries yeah yeah that makes a lot of

sense cause how uh how was halifax you guys partied up or what no no not one bit we're good a couple of pops out there or what sounds like a fun time i i actually had a band-aid on my finger from turning on the lights at the bar. No way. Well, that's great. It sounds like a fun time. We appreciate you taking the time to come and fill us in, buddy. Appreciate it. All right, guys.

Take care. Thanks a lot. See you, Cozzy. That was great. I mean, those guys. You could not. There was no way we could have been like, and what do you think about

dylan gunther's and like that had to be the ender of the interview right there yeah but he's got his finger turning on the light switch what a line oh god i love sammy cuz he is he's a great guy um here's a question for you guys yeah will connor badar be on the best the next best on best for team canada 100 000 they're not doing it till 2025 now apparently oh yeah for sure how is that possible they're not gonna do it it's criminal well i mean well uh we should get emily kaplan back on and that's how that's uh kind of part of the reason they're awkward color tug okay um but you know that it's fascinating that we can't produce a goaltender in this country anymore there was a there's no it's quebec's job that was the thing that's their job we all have

our jobs everyone got 300 points in that league and the goalie saw 900 shots a game and eventually you figured out how to stop enough of them that it translated yeah it's criminal it is your job truly though i think there's your point about risk reward is fair and even if it's criminal it is your job truly though i think there's you your point about risk reward is fair and even if it's not to do with being on team canada yeah the risk reward factor is just you know when you're done playing hockey like for my son yep when he's done and presumably is not in the nhl because he's human and most people don't play in the nhl i would like him to remind me of this when i talked to you about my son but go ahead i would like him to be able to play the game with his friends yes and being a goalie is hard and beerly yeah what is every gear every goalie do when they want to

go out like every goalie when they turn 20 becomes a skater oh i want to play out i'm good i got hands boys i went into i went in i've heard about this. Are you the answer? In a beer league game, probably like two or three months ago, our goalie pulled something. Just looking like Gumby with leather pads on? First shift, he's like, I can't go. I can't go. And it was going to be the end of the game, or somebody went in, and I was like, all right, I'll go in.

He's got really nice gear. I put on all his gear. We kind of say he's a little shorter than me, whatever. Anyone who willingly chooses to do that is an insane person. It is the worst experience of all time it's there's not one like i made a couple good saves it's like that's not even enjoyable it's like whatever like it hit me great like i don't know why you would do it did you see the picture so paul campbell is one of my favorite uh people to follow as a writer for in gold media at way to go paul uh i retweeted something his today it's a picture that the

is a czech goalie buried in his in his just near tears while canada celebrates is that before or after he got his oscar well fair enough but he says goaltending is suffering each rock you push to the hilltop crashes back to earth expectation crushes you hope vanishes like smoke through the webbing of your trapper stoop double over the ice like an octogenarian everything hurts it's always your fault curse God and die not wrong and one last point they don't even do cool stuff

anymore what happened to like the old like rolling two pad stacks or goalies flying out with a hot like it used to be so cool and and that's it guys need better masks again I mean I can fix goaltending in canada apparently we need to give everybody the best gear possible time for a customized mask it's also not wrong the most expensive position hey i think we've realized why this is not we're

not creating goalies everything about it is worse it's just the worst part of the game we're gonna get some nasty notes about this. No, they know. Every goalie knows. There's no goalie who's out there and is like, no, I am a sane person and this is fun. No. But here's the thing. I think we're validating goaltenders because they like being different. They like being unique.

They like that is they are a different breed. You have to be to do it on your own. Take all the heat, all the pressure. Definitely. There's crazy there's crazy positions in every sport but nothing like goalie nothing like it nothing like goalie um okay so the all-star game is uh coming up at some point and the nhl has picked a player for every team in the nhl sure fans are going to pick what's that so stupid i saw i i wish i could dig it up i forgot who tweeted but it was like

william neilander has more points than like 85 of the guys i know so one thing they did do that was cool though is you don't have to pick a certain number forwards and defensemen did you notice that so the nhl is going to have some teams i think the atlantic here's who's going for the atlantic division matthews sorry these are the guys unselected uh where's their list of the selected guys one sec for the atlantic we have kucherov larkin marner suzuki thompson kachuk kachuk uh and that's it that's all forwards so in there throwing headman in there no d that's fine it's fine i mean it's three it's it's a three on three gimmick like it's a three on three gimmick game for children and sponsors.

You can have no D. Honestly, I have no goalies and play post for all I care. Here's the Metro. Crosby, Goodrow, Hayes, Hughes, Nelson, Ovechkin, Svetchnikov. No D. Adam Fox can't get in there. Only 4D have been selected. Three of them from the Central.

Carlson went from the Pacific, and the Central has Seth Jones, Kael McCarr, and Josh Morrissey are going. Much like the conversation we had yesterday morning, and I'll bring it up with Gunner too. Let's just play, and it's very similar to the OT in World Juniors. How about a hockey game? How about the greatest players on Earth

doing what they do every night? If we're not going to have best on best, like I was half kidding, can we not go back? I'm pretty sure it was when the All-Star Game was here. It was one of the years for the format. Can we go back and get the old North America versus the world? Like the great Elsa said, let it go, let it go.

I mean, again, I actually, and I am someone who gets way too worked up about just about anything. And even I am learning to not care about the all-star game. Although I do still have like a lot of opinions on the, like Emily said about the skills competition. I want hard to shot and I want them shooting foam targets. I know it's bad for the environment with the, not,

not for the hardest shot, but for the accuracy shooting, I need it to blow up. Oh yeah. You don't like it at the Bellagio. Was that what you did? Jeez. Wearing toques outside.

Cause it's 15 degrees. So I didn't mind that. It was? Jeez. Wearing toques outside because it's 15 degrees. So. I didn't mind that. It was fine. It's fine. It's all fine. They're going to do something fun for Florida, right? Like Florida's going to have some sort of, they are going to do something.

You got to like shoot a marlin that's jumping out of the water or something like that. I don't know. You know, maybe a large reptile of some variety or something. Ripping bucks into a croc. Yeah. Speaking of environmentally. Anyways. It's going to be going crock. Speaking of environmentally, anyways. It's going to be entertaining to see what they choose.

Okay, so from the Atlantic Division, I'll read off some unselected players. We're going to pick two and a goalie. You have to pick a goalie. Austin Matthews, David Pasternak, William Nylander, Braden Point, Alex Tuck, Jeff Skinner, Brad Marchand. Two picks of that group. I'll go first.

David Pasternak is having an unbelievable season. You have to have him there. And I know this goes against everything I agreed with what McKee said about William Nylander, but it's an all-star game. You have to have Austin Matthews. I thought the exact same thing. There is no world where Austin Matthews, American, Hart Trophy, Ted Lindsey, last guy to score 60, playing for the most important franchise he has to be there and he's on pace for 95 points and 40 goals like i know those are off last year's numbers but

they're not yeah non-existent numbers so it's matthews and pasternak for me too mckee willie and matthews no faster yes love him out of there you're the best what's's next? Goalie from the division. Vasilevsky or Samsonov? Sorry. Can we get Shalgren in there? Vas. So Vas is going. Okay. Quickly on the Nylander thing,

I will say it's a little interesting that the league chose to send Marner there as the player representative because it just seems so obvious to me that Marner would be there in a passing part of the skills contest. Matthew's going to be doing some type of shooting. Why don't you just let William Nylander play hockey? Like it seems like a

and I know this is my leaf bias, but hey, the Leafs are an important team. Maybe get some guys there. Maybe have the three all-stars they have at the all-star game. Here's an idea. Maybe we don't need Seth Jones there. No disrespect to Seth Jones, but it has not been an all-star season for Seth Jones. Clayton Keller's my guy there, but you're right. Okay. Metro division.

Here are your options to pick two from Panarin, Zabana Jed, Barzal, Bratt, Fox, Natchez, Heashier, Konechny.

Two picks. Sam McKee, do you want to take a swing or? Yeah, I'll take a swing here. I don't think it's very sexy necessarily, but I think Martin Natchez or Natchez. I know he's good.

He deserves to be there. He's leading the second best team in the league in scoring which would probably surprise you are they the second best team in the league they gotta be up yeah yeah they're second well game winning streak yeah uh i'm going with uh natchez god it's a weird one good pick and probably jesper bratt all i ever hear about is jesper bratt being this super sexy guy on the on the on the devils he's got his own fan club so i'm gonna go but you do need a defenseman adam fox is in for me now i'm going natures and fox all right natures and fox i got fox and barzal because go aisles go yeah same i did barzal because it's the idea of this is this event to shine like wait he is like mitch marner lightning fast skater great hands

plays on a team where he never gets to do any of this stuff imagine how fun it'll be to have skill guys around him like yeah i put him out there so yeah i go i i i did have bread man and barzal but i'm gonna switch because fox deserves it if if kale mccard didn't exist though things we would say about adam fox so let him get there and get his due and then uh goalie sorokin kochikov jar or kochetkov jari and vanichek um i'm taking sorokin just because again aisles i'm gonna go with the guy whose name i can't pronounce uh kochetkov i think is what you said anyways uh look uh who knows if he'll ever get here again let him enjoy his moment you like him too right sammy well yeah i do

i can't talk about goalies anymore i didn't watching, when we got to sit close with Kipper's buddies, I liked watching Sorokin. Seemed like a complete nut. He's the reason the Isles have a chance here to get in the playoffs. I'm going to go Sorokin. Sorokin. Central Division, unpicked players. Rantanen, Hintz, Connor, Shifley, Zuccarello, Kyrou, Pavelski.

All unselected. I'm going to go Hintz and Kyle Connor, Shifley, Zuccarello, Kyrou, Pavelski. All unselected. I'm going to go Hintz and Kyle Conner. I'm going to go. I got Rantanen and Hintz. McKee, are you taking selections for all these? I don't even know if I asked you to do this pre-show. I love Rupe because it's just a hell of a handle. Rupe Hintz, it's one of the best ones,

but I'm not going to pick him, unfortunately. I'm going to go Mikko Rantanen. He's been great for them, and they've been depleted. He's kept them afloat offensively and i'll go and i'll go kyle connor because he shoots in the puck in the net a lot yeah and then for goalies you know you're basically choosing between hellebuck and ottinger i got hellebuck for my guy both americans can we borrow one of them yeah right he's got a swing a trade with russia for a goalie that's what we got to do sorokin sh Shosturkin.

And I hate to break it, but like Morgan Raleigh's the quality of the D. They'd be going the other way. Like, you got to make it fair. I'm sorry. I hate to break it to you. To Russia. All right. Lastly, the Pacific Division. Unselected players.

Dry Seidel, Nugent Hopkins, Horvat, Meyer, Zgris, Stone, Eichel. Zgris, eh? In that stack of players? You have to look. Let me just get out of front of it i hate that i'm doing it because no one as much as i've said i've made my peace with it clearly that is not true if you hear me talking right now he has to be there they made the whole event about him last year he threw on the dodgeball uniform it is not for me it is not for anyone

who can drive or even attend like middle school but the kids i guess love it you gotta go zegras in there i don't want to i would go if it's just for my own enjoyment give me eichel give me dry sidle but i gotta go dry sidle zegras wow zegras and i look it's for the kids it is sorry i don't like it either it's on the cover nhl 23 i'm not the biggest oiler stand as you probably figured out but i'm gonna take the two Oilers. Ryan Nugent Hopkins is quietly having one of the better years in the league. He's playing really, really well for them, and Leon Drysaddle is second in the league.

Is he not second in the league in scoring? Yes. Yeah, Drysaddle is a no-brainer. Give me the two Oilers. Yeah, Drysaddle is there, and then I'm going to go with Holborn. Actually, screw that. Give me Timo Meier, future Leaf. The best part is picking a goalie from this division.

Your choice of the best goaltenders remaining to choose from are Martin Jones, Stuart Skinner, and Phoenix Copley. No Jack? Campbell? Jack did not get nominated. Although you can. Hey, John Scott got in. Why can't Jack?

God, it's an all-time clip for us. I'm picking Skinner just because I'm about that smoke, I think the kids say. I like to, I'm going at Campbell a little bit with that one, maybe. But pro-Canada, too. Good Canadian goaltender. Maybe he's our future. Somebody better be.

Yeah. He's a big goalie. Blackwoods, they about oh yeah i don't know they do yeah i look i'm just telling you i'm just telling you what i heard okay uh you gave me a great fact about someone named phoenix copley who is allegedly an nhl goaltender where's he from again north pole alaska done that's my guy he's from the north pole let him go to the all-star game in south florida please he's from the north pole so tonight let's not overthink it my uh so the guy who covers alaskan hockey his name is doyle woody he's i'm a huge doyle woody get him down there too i know doyle's the best he uh he tweeted today that tonight is the first ever all alaskan

goaltending matchup jeremy swayman's from anchorage alaska playing phoenix coppola you love that you love that you love that what a time there's no one up there like 800 000 people live in the whole state and it's three times the size of texas there's no humans two of them are playing in goal for nhl teams tonight it's insanity insanity. Pretty remarkable. It is. It's absolutely crazy. Have they had like a player since Scott Gomez that we can think of? Nate Thompson was around. Yeah, they got guys.

There's guys. I know, putting you on the spot. No, I'm embarrassed that I can't think because there is a number of guys from there that's in the league. Anyway. Got some questions.

Great. I'm going to start with the frequent texter with a great question. Bruce from Penitanguish what up bruce love the area by the way question guys do you think the growing goaltending concerns could be the thing that is the final nail in the coffin for kyle dubas depending on playoff success it crossed my mind just today that if it doesn't work out and the goaltending doesn't come through

in the playoffs and they lose in the first round you you'll look at it and you go, well, you tried to fix it with Campbell and Mrazik, then you tried to fix it with Samsonov and Murray, and that's a huge position to get wrong, to try to skimp on. Yeah, the way I look at it is, even last year heading into it, everyone said, well, if they lose in the first round again, you got to reset it.

And then we saw the way it happened, and you go, but it was right there. Probably one more try. If they go to the wall and it's game there probably one more try if it is it if they go to the wall and it's game seven and the goalies hold up and it's one bounce or whatever i don't know that it's the kiss of death but if the goaltending implodes then i do think it is because it was clearly the biggest swing heading into the season and you know i'm very much a believer in all goaltending moves for the most part are a swing yeah obviously this was a really

really big one and yeah i do think he made his bed and i think there's a really weird real world where it is his undoing as a leafs gm you know i think if the leafs win the first round they put they win three games 100 to zero and then they lose four games three to two in quadruple overtime on bad bounces dubas is still fired like it doesn't matter how great they look in the process. I don't disagree, but I said the exact same thing last year. And then everything happened. Yeah, you're right. No, I know.

Like, that's just where we keep coming back to. Oh, man. Win a round. Please win a round. I just, you know, the McKee clip of saying, please win before game seven. Just please win. Like, just so we don't have to do this all year.

Just win. Please. One of these times. So we don't have to do this all year win please one of these times so we don't have to do this all right you got a very simple message for the final please win um yeah and they didn't so this is a this is a great question and different maybe from warrior womp on youtube he always always contributes to our show and stuff. Appreciate it. Size, speed, or strength.

Which is your favorite trait when you pair it with skill? Wow. Oh, it's got to be strength. No, well, size and strength to me are tough to... Not necessarily. Holmberg's very strong, but he's not big. I want strong because size to me, if it's like justin

hall is not what i'm talking about so give me strength with it you have i mean strength and skill i think i go size because to me the most intriguing guy and this is like complete recency bias of this season is just tage thompson and not that he isn't also strong but he's not just big he's mutant big like when you look at char and obviously char was not an overly skilled player he was though the early stuff you're you're right especially when when we think of him when we think of him at the tail end of his career when he existed just to take 15 penalties a game and dare someone to call him on him a different guy earlier on in his career but yeah i think that for me and it's totally just closing my eyes thinking of tage thompson yeah six seven awesome

hands awesome feet give it to me i think a fun question is in that is an awesome question by picking i'm going speed speed and skill yeah i feel like we see that a lot that's that's the most common pairing that's the you know are the caldubas just hack your brain you well because you could have had a big guy or a strong guy and you took a fast guy i feel like the pursuit of the puck for your skill is the most important thing yeah right like a guy you know you can have strength you can have size or whatever but the most important trait to get the puck getting past somebody isn't it speed is that the most important thing yeah i would say if you're if you're picking one trait in a hockey

player i would think i would pick speed so in the character god that team's fast like last night the least got you know like think of the squids they're fast they're flying around they got a bunch of guys that just skate speed is an incredibly important we've had this conversation i think in the show before but if you could set the characteristic sliders to 100 of speed skill or strength or smarts which is your team every player gets maxed out on this one trait i think it's speed smarts is a pretty good oh no like that was the that was the second that was clear as day second option for me but to my key's point i do think it's speed yeah speed speed it is you can out skate mistakes i think maybe hopefully

i never know when you talk if it's on air. I said, yay, 15 Kerfoot's. Yeah, okay. I never know if it's to me directly or on air. I never know if I'm responding. Great joke. You guys want to HF boards? Sure.

End of Friday show, HF boards it up. Could the Leafs, Arizona, and Vancouver do a three-way trade? Oh, God. Where the Leafs get Chikrin, Kraus, and Kuzmenko. Would it take Sandin, Nyes, and a first to make this deal work? And that's my boy, Tyler and Peterborough. Have them. Yeah.

I don't think the Leafs have the assets to land three really good cost control players who's make was unbelievable for vancouver this year once you make nothing and nothing nothing yeah and kraus is on that cheap deal and chikren's on a cheap deal i mean don't make no scene i love the idea but it's just not gonna work what did vancouver get out of that i'm curious a headache bedard maybe yeah probably oh site quick side note did you see this the so the canucks put out a tweet basically is like conor bedard catnip was the the impetus of it but it was like congrats for winning canada gold and it was bedard one other player and dylan gunther dylan gunther

was a draft pick taken with the Vancouver Canucks first-round pick that got traded, and the people of Vancouver were not happy about this. It was an all-time just not reading the room moment. What trade was that in? I don't know. I'm going to look that up. It's got to be the one that sent Louis Erickson, Jay Beagle,

Antoine Roussel for OEL. Enough people were mad about it that I knew it was true. It was. That's what it was. Garland, right? Yeah, they traded Beagle, Roussel for OEL. Enough people were mad about it that I knew it was true. It was. That's what it was, yeah. Garland, right? Yeah, they traded Beagle, Roussel, Louis Erickson, and the round, this, yeah, and that pick. And that pick. Tough.

For Garland and OEL's absolute albatross of a contract that they are now living with. And then they got to get killed on Twitter for it, so even better. That's awesome. It's great. So this weekend, do we have more questions questions or should we talk about the weekend ahead? Oh, let's do the quick weekend ahead. AMAC did text

in another tweet. Oh, what's happening, AMAC? What do you got, Andy? It said, tired of hearing the Leafs are not tough enough. They came within a hair of beating Tampa

in six last year. Yep. And you can skate faster than Pat Maroon, Sam. Yes, Andy! Not necessarily true. Yes. AMAC.

All-timer. That was a quick one just to get in there you haven't been lucky enough no you know it's such a a thing with the tone you talk about the maple east that you're not allowed to say that they were really close last year because no one cares because they didn't get it done whatever but it's like the reality is it does matter and that's why kyle dubas is still here and sheldon keith is still here and the core is still here everyone talks about game seven austin matthew Matthews was two millimeters away in game six in overtime from tip and went home.

And you're right. It is because they have, and this is the whole problem with not getting it done against Montreal and Columbus is that nobody has time for the it was close because of all those other, those cracks at the camp. But you're right. People are very, I'm not, but I can feel the simmering rage when I go, oh, but they almost in game six no one

wants to hear the montreal and columbus ones really really you're not allowed to get unlucky after that god no just the way it goes so this weekend ahead uh is it philly for the leafs is that at least sunday detroit tomorrow we will have the uh philly game on sportsnet five nine of the fan oh lovely sunday cursed day for the leafs to play don't like it not a fan i will say i i got bumped i'm on leafs talk on sunday because jd wants to watch the seattle seahawks missed the playoffs yeah so i will be on leafs talk sunday night that's exciting well yeah i do enjoy that sam that's nice that'll be fun it almost sounded like you believed it there i you know what i'll be honest the leafs talk is uh, it's nice to like,

I don't even know how I feel about a game till it falls out of my head sometimes. So it's nice to flesh it out in the immediate aftermath. I guess you get to do that with Gordo all the time. Me and Gordo doing it all the time. Yeah. We actually just spend like half the postgame show talking about how many people are always hanging around on the opposing team from the opposing team in the lower bowl. Kairu had a crew there.

It's insane. Like every time it does. I just know that because his sister's on TikTok. Dursie a ton. Because why? Because Kairu's sister's on TikTok. Don't get yourself in trouble. Once in a while she comes.

What are you talking about? I don't follow her. She's for you, Paige. She just comes up and she was at her. What are you getting at here? I don't know what's going on on TikTok. It scares me even mentioning it. TikTok isn't only fans. My kryptonite. She was there being happy for her brother. I have no idea what's going on on tiktok it scares me even mentioning it tiktok is tiktok isn't only fans

she was there being happy for her brother what's going on on there it's great well that's wonderful um okay so detroit red wings gotta be four points you think so no uh oh there's still there is a there's a very real chance of needing one more one more smack after a bad game before bouncing back against the Flyers. Listen, if you have any hope in hell of catching the Boston Bruins... Which you don't. Yeah.

Oh, yes, they do. I don't think they do. I agree, mostly with Gunnar. But if you have a chance, you got to go into this weekend against two bad teams and take four points. So the Red Wings are... First off, the Red Wings are kind of hanging around.

Nah, they stink. No, they've kind of... I could be wrong, but I feel like they were hanging around no they've kind of i could be wrong but i feel like they were hanging around and they've kind of taken a bit of a step back that is they are plummeting down the standings here where we had detroit three five and two in their last and their last 10 not very good uh still a 542 winning percentage but yes minus 11 goal differential there's just too much ahead of them and there's to really be a playoff team i would say um but this strikes me as a leafs team

you know i was saying to you guys before we came on the air it kills me that i didn't think they were going to lose last game it's it's the perfect formula it's a pretty good team in seattle but not enough to garner a ton of respect it's the middle of the week they're you know it just this kind of feels like we're entering lull time oh yeah a little bit here for the leafs very much been the mo with this team quick quick question i'll throw at you who takes a seat if connor timmons comes in this weekend because keith was saying that he didn't want to let guys sit too long and back-to-backs could garner people in who comes out it's a great question and can you ever rest someone without it being a big deal only if it's Mark Giordano, but everyone you talk to says that that is not going to happen with that guy.

At least every person I've asked has said, yeah, it's just too hard to restart the engine after you take it. I don't buy it. I don't buy it at all, but that's everything I've heard is that. Yeah, no, I have heard that about Gio too, but you know, he's making 800 grand

and he's in his, you know, he's 30,000 years old. What is he, 39? Yep. You can take a seat for me. Yeah. Not on him just fine yeah all right uh thank you very much for joining me today appreciate it always fun this is truly always fun and i can't wait to be a guest on golf guys when do you guys start your golf

podcast up again masters yeah all right we're getting there although i'll be watching a lot of the tournament the champions this weekend feed up dreaming about being a capalua don't tempt me yeah all right well thank you to emily Well, thank you to Emily Kaplan. Thank you to Sam Cosentino. Leafs on Saturday night versus Detroit. We'll be back on Monday with Kipper to talk about it all then. Have a great weekend.