Real Kyper & Bourne - Trade Market Projections

Episode Date: January 18, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne start the second hour with NHL Network's Brian Lawton (5:26) who shares his thoughts on whether it's time for Winnipeg & Vancouver to push 'all-in,' the difficulty of upgrading a blueline via trade and when and how often execs should hold press conferences. Later, the guys regroup with Sam McKee for news and notes - Lindy Ruff shows frustration at a reporter, the Kings' horrid recent stretch and Dubas declares the Penguins won't trade Guentzel.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome back to the real kipper and born show this is the national edition we are live on sportsnet sportsnet 650 in vancouver and sportsnet 916 calgary this hour of real kipper and born brought to you by bet 365 and a kiprios justin born sammy mckee derrick brandeo gen roll neck i didn't see jen's name on this john sammy good just want to make sure everybody gets credit it's on there daniele is coming on the show tomorrow to fill your shoes. Wait till you see Daniele's lineup tomorrow. It's going to be sparkling. Oh, yeah.

A clean sheet. I will say, I do worry. There's not a lot of producers that I worry about taking over for me, but he's a beast. He's very good at this. He's thorough. I can bring some marginal takes here and there, so that's kind of why I'm here. He's very good at it. He's thorough. You know, I can bring some marginal takes here and there, so that's kind of why I'm here. He's very good at it.

Got that sweet lefty swing. There could be a chance by Monday your seat's filled. Yeah. Well, I mean, Pip, right? You better win a lot of money in Vegas. I watched the hangover. Maybe I'll get stuck there like that. I'll get stuck in a roof.

You're going with your wife i don't like your chances of yeah we'll see she's not afraid of a good time no all right don't threaten her with a good time keep us posted yeah uh in uh in a few minutes we're going to welcome in uh former nhl uh player agent general manager this guy's done it all and he's done it all on our show brian Lawton. Certainly tons to get into, including the vibe across the country. You mean the best Canada's ever been at hockey right now? Earlier on our Leaf edition, you had suggested maybe the Leafs could be sellers at the trade deadline.

And I am scared to go on social media right now. Because I don't think there's a Canadian fan. And I think it's a bitter pill to swallow. And in Ottawa, perhaps the Montreal Canadiens have been a little bit more, you know, prepared for life without the playoffs, but nobody wants to hear that their team's selling in this country, especially Leaf fans. How many points back of the Leafs do you think the Montreal Canadiens are?

I don't know, 10? Five. Leafs have played two less games, but... Yeah, you know, one thing I've learned doing talk radio is there's no amount of qualifying an opinion you can do that people will hear if you

say something like, could the Leafs be sellers I said a thousand things about I don't think they should but boy, doesn't matter I said the words I would ask, you know, not to get too inside baseball here but what would they like us to say after four straight losses and the worst they've looked in the matthews era blowing leads like it's like what what would you like they've had bad starts

you know they've had bad starts where we've all questioned it and they've gotten hot and stayed hot they haven't had a lot of mid-season dips like this they're below 100 point pace after at the halfway point you know in in the earlier show i said you're never as bad as you think you are you're never as good as you you think you are and just to bring into the leafs into the equation how can you really truly be sure when you've watched the vancouver canucks the last few years with almost no hope and then turn around and have the season they're having or even the winnipeg jets who have been brilliant at being a mid team now look like a legitimate contender in the West, or even the Edmonton Oilers, where you watch a disaster start to the season, now put them amongst many competing for a Stanley Cup once again.

They might be the Cup favorite. If you're the Leafs, like, what do you do in the next? Yeah. You just watch, I guess, them going to Calgary and then going to Vancouver, and then you see what happens here. I think typically you and I, the way we operate, is thinking as if we were inside a team.

If you were the general manager and thinking about it, if I was the coach and thinking about it, realistically what you would do, and to make those decisions, you, realistically, what you would do. And to make those decisions, you have to, you know, consider what it would look like if you were a seller. You have to consider the options before you can make decisions. And so that's what we do.

Stock Radio, you consider the options. Quickly, before you get to Latu and his wedding, what would, if the Leafs were having the Vancouver Canucks season right this second, I'd still have the same questions about them in the playoffs that I do about this version of the list. I don't know. I disagree. No, you... I call BS.

They've had 115 points every... You wouldn't even be on the show because you'd be doing backflips down Yonge Street if they were the Vancouver Canucks right now. It's not true. We'd be like, can they get past it? We'd still have the exact same conversation. You'd be going, oh God, they're going to draw Tampa again. Exactly. We'd be having the exact same conversation. Alright going oh god they're going to draw tampa exactly all right let's welcome in brian lotten does a terrific job covering the national hockey league

as always uh and a lot of uh experience under his belt uh lots just before you uh came on we were just talking about uh assessing your league it never, or assessing your team. It's, I don't know if you can go back to your days in Tampa Bay, but is this the hardest it's ever been? Because some days you feel so bad about your lineup, and yet we can see other teams turn it around rather quickly in what, six months, 12 months, 18 months? Yeah, I don't know if you feel so bad about your lineup kipper you and i had a great conversation earlier this week

about this topic and a lot of it just has to do with the salary cap has compressed everybody together so you know it used to be the era when we were playing there you had teams like detroit new jersey colorado for 10 years they won all the Stanley Cups it felt like with the exception of maybe Dallas snuck one in there in that window and those days are over now you don't see that kind of domination from a lot of teams I think the league is a lot flatter than it's ever been I think that's partly by design you've heard the NHL talk about this this, that everybody being in it is better for business. And that's somewhat the case right now. It's never everybody, but more teams are definitely encompassed in this middle. And it's making everyone feel a little paranoid about their team, particularly when you add in the fact that the cap has still

not really exploded to where we think it will in the coming years based on this sort of mishmash of uh standings mess where all these teams seem pretty good there's no clear runaway best teams should the teams at the top be a little hesitant about where they are that things have gone well you know you're not necessarily running away with it i'm asking about winnipeg and vancouver i guess and where you really think they're at you know is this uh the right time for them to push all their chips in at the deadline and make a run for winnipeg and vancouver in particular they've actually probably had more consistency than the other

teams that we would consider top teams. I would consider Toronto one of the teams, but you guys are talking about them and, you know, just they're at the halfway mark points per game. Mark is putting them below 100 and that's a little bit of a shocker to me. I think that's a shocker to a lot of people. At the same time, teams like Philly, Detroit, they've really surprised us what they've been able to do. But specifically with Vancouver and Winnipeg, should they push all in? I think Vancouver's done everything they can. They've made the most moves of anybody, really, changing their team from last year. So I commend them on that. You hear a lot about it's impossible to make moves, and yet somehow I feel like they've kind of rebuilt their D, starting back with Hranic, obviously, but continuing that forward with Zdorov. So good for them.

Those have been great changes. They recognize that they do have some really great forwards. They just needed to strengthen that back end, get a healthy goalie back, and they look like world beaters this year. Winnipeg, on the other hand, I think that they're always kind of in a similar mode for me. It's just all coming together. They changed the coach. That certainly over time has had an effect. They look like a more cohesive unit. They settled down some of their problems that were outstanding in terms of

what happens with some of their star players. Are they going to leave? They didn't. I commend them as well on an excellent job of handling what was going on with their big club, but also continuing to just kind of quietly draft very well, in my opinion. I think Winnipeg's done a really nice job.

I think Chevy's done a really nice job. Well, regardless of the names that we've already started hearing, in my opinion. I think Winnipeg's done a really nice job. I think Chevy's done a really nice job. Lots of, regardless of the names that we've already started hearing, the feeling is the prices have never been more expensive here. It just seems like if you're in the ballpark

of playing 15 or 16 minutes on defense, every team wants a first round pick. Is it to the point now where basically teams are so desperate, you know, you're willing to take that chance, even though the reality is they might be worth a third rounder. Yeah. I mean,

you know, you can go back and kind of dissect things that have happened. The Leafs made a big move, obviously just to get Jake McCabe. They bought themselves down on the money, you know, with Chicago retaining some of it. Is that worth it in the end? I don't know. What do you guys think? You see him every night. Is that worth it? What they paid for the price? Yeah. For two million a season, he's been he's been better than that. But but not a replacement for Jake Muzzin. No. Right. And that's the way that you have to look at it, right?

For $2 million apiece, Justin, I agree. A night? Yes, absolutely. Was that the goal when you started out, though? You know, because you want to improve your club, too. Is it an improvement over Muzzin? I don't think it's been. I like Jake a lot.

I think he's a real heart and soul player. I think he gives everything he's got. But what you're saying, Kipper, is it's hard to upgrade your D. Really hard. really wasn't thought back then. It's just deer. So darn hard to find in this league. If you can ever get a really good one, boy, is it valuable making moves to try to add it. I have to compliment Edmonton on the job they did in getting at home. You know, you look back at that.

Now they trade a first, they trade Tyson Berry, they take trade Reed Schaefer, and they end up with a guy that's, you know, really changed Edmonton's look, in my opinion. If they can do that one more time, I'll feel great about their team. But it's hard just to do it once, never mind again.

That's everybody's challenge right now. Lots. You mentioned Hedman. Of course, that was the year that John Tavares, if I'm not mistaken, was 1-2 with Hedman, of course, that was the year that John Tavares, if I'm not mistaken, was 1-2 with Hedman. And I'm just wondering if you can kind of take us back then in terms of you picking second and if you would have picked first. I mean, how tough of a decision.

And we're watching John Tavares, and he's been overall, he's done everything that you expected of him I don't know if they expected him to become a hundred point man or 120 point man but very consistent over the years with the Leafs but there seems to be like a maybe a small trend where it maybe the skating or maybe the the play is coming down a little bit but take us back to that draft in terms of if you were picking first overall forward or defenseman, because Tavares clearly came in as, as a franchise type of player and,

and Hedman didn't necessarily. That's right. That's right. Actually, Matt Duchesne was the better player in year one, if truth be told. And I took a lot of flack for that back then because there were some people that let me know early on

they weren't crazy about the pick that were on our staff. I talked about that this week. I never had to face the decision of what if we had had first pick. And Jeff Merrick asked me that on the radio this week. And just like whenever anybody on your panel here asked me a question, I will answer it honestly. And I was thankful I never had to answer that question. I didn't want to have to answer that question. But the fact of the matter is, based on a lot of what we're saying in this conversation, I felt way back when, particularly with Tampa's circumstances, we would be better

served with Victor Hedman long term. I never had to make that decision. I did have to undo what was our normal list in that process because, you know, we did have Matt Duchesne second. The problem is, as a general manager, you always retain the right for anybody picked in the top five to make that final call, regardless of what your staff says. That's not easy to do. I never felt great about that. Our staff worked their rear ends off. I appreciated all the work. I just knew that part of my job as general manager was to make these types of decisions, even if they're unpopular at the time with the staff. That's what we did. It's worked out fine for the Tampa Bay Lightning. John Tavares has been an absolute tremendous all-star player for his entire career.

I'm just glad I never had to face that decision. I was very happy when we did not win the lottery that year. Honestly, I never said it to anybody. No one's ever asked me that question to this week, but I was always very at peace with it. Really, truly wanted to draft Victor. And, you know, a lot of this could be self-serving too, as a former first overall pick, there's just a lot of extra baggage that goes with being picked first. You know, there really is. It's just, it's just a little bit tougher. I experienced that personally. It wasn't always fun for me. I was delighted to be getting a great player at number two,

a player that we wanted. And as I'm admitting now, I would have stepped up and said, yeah, we're going to go a different direction than maybe what the consensus is. That is what you're paid for. You also have to take the flack with that when you're on. But that's the way it honestly was. I met with John Tavares.

I've never been more impressed by a 17, 18-year-old player at that time because of the level of his professionalism. You just touched on it, Kipper. You said, well, what about the skating today? Well, back then, privately, and these are just my privately thoughts, my private thoughts, I was concerned just a little bit about him hitting his full potential in this league because of his skating. John and I actually talked about it.

After that conversation, I felt much better about it. And that was right after all the players were in Pittsburgh we had them all come to Tampa together we had all three players there in Tampa I had a chance to meet with them back to back to back to have dinner with them together you know just to spend some time with all three of them and kind of see the differences and John was by far the most mature although Victor Hedman was also already kind of a seasoned pro playing in the Swedish elite league but John absolutely convinced me in those conversations and he did it again at the combine that he was going to put into work to make sure that his skating got to a level where he could reach the full his full potential and I do

think he did that. And I commend him on that. You know, Lutz, thinking about some of the tough decisions general managers have to make, I look at the NHL and where certain teams are at heading towards a trade deadline. Philly certainly thought they would be a team selling assets, but they're in a playoff spot.

Calgary thought they'd be in a team selling, or in a spot to sell, and they're kind of in a playoff spot. Calgary thought they'd be in a team selling or in a spot to sell, and they're kind of in a playoff race. You know, there are other teams like that. You know, where do you stand? Should teams be all the way in and just sell everyone they can? Can you do that where you kind of sell and still try to make it? Doug Armstrong made a run at that a few years ago,

but psychologically, you know, you have really two types of general managers the ones and i could name some of the guys at least that are not a manager right now like brian burke who's not necessarily he doesn't believe he doesn't necessarily believe in my opinion burkey would have to correct me on this because you're always trying to read everybody in the room you have to deal with these people but i always felt like burkey if he was like had a chance to be seventh or eighth but didn't believe he had a legitimate chance to win he wouldn't do that well his other guys are absolutely the other way some of it has to do with circumstances these are the these are the real issues that gms face you have all kinds of pressures. How's it going in your reign as general manager? Are you

solid? Can you afford to take more time to do it right? There's so many conflicting messages that you have to deal with on a daily basis. That is truly what makes it such a hard job to do. But I don't subscribe to the theory that just get in and you may win. I know we've seen teams over history. Everybody on this panel right now can name who they've been. We can go back to Edmonton's run, Carolina's year, Philly's run to the finals. We can recite all that, but the bottom line is you either believe in math or you don't. I happen to believe in math and I don't like those odds. So I would never be all in. This year, though, my kind of macro view and what's going to happen is I'd be sneakily engaged in this deadline because I don't think a lot of people are going to be. I think there's a

lot of defeated teams. And overall, it'll be down as to who's willing to make a move. I'd be out there early this year as in right now trying to lock some things down because having been in different positions and roles in the past, you're always nervous that I'm not going to be able to get the guys I want if you're buying, but I'm also not going to be able to sell the guys I know I should. Philly to me is a fascinating one, Justin, because they really should be selling, in my opinion, and yet it's very hard to be a GM or a coach like Torts

look the players in the eye who are playing their rear ends off this year, overachieving, in my opinion, and say, and they know what happens when you're selling at the deadline. It's a non-vote of confidence. Are the Calgary Flames the Philadelphia Flyers version in the West because L.A. loses or wins one game in 10,

and all of a sudden Calgary's sitting there going, yeah, baby. And the Leafs come in tonight in Calgary. They're on a four game losing streak. Where is, where is a hiccup between a four game losing streak and losers of 10 of 11 for you? Well, first off on Calgary,

I think that where they're at in a cycle and you guys ask me questions, I'll answer it. Honestly, I really don't think that they should be doing anything, but since they have had some issues getting players signed, it's clear to me that they've kind of missed their window with the group of guys they have, and they really strongly need to move out the players they can't get signed, get the assets back. You don't want to end up kind of where Columbus did to some respect, you know, when they had Panarin and Bobrosky and,

you know, they went for it and they shocked the world. They won the first round, but I feel like they've paid a price since then. And Calgary has to, you have to be cognizant of the past and be honest with your evaluations. And then you have to follow through on them. And that's not easy. So in a nice way, I'm trying to say that, yes, Calgary, in my opinion, should be sellers. I don't think they're going to not easy. So in a nice way, I'm trying to say that, yes, Calgary, in my opinion, should be sellers. I don't think they're going to get in. If they do get in, I think it's going to be really challenging for them to do any damage in the playoffs. And sometimes this is the hardest freaking thing to do. You have to take two steps, you know, backwards to take three forward down the road.

Lots. I got called a stupid dummy idiot on the internet for saying the Leafs might have some questions about maybe selling. It's a tough world out there online, but I wanted to get your thoughts on the Leafs. You can't live online, Justin. You cannot live online. I try not to. Yeah.

Yeah. You should quit your job if you don't like that. Yeah. Just like GM and people didn't to. Yeah. Yeah. You should quit your job if you don't like that. Yeah. Just like GM and people didn't like. Yeah. And we were thinking of trading certain players. It just is what it is. You accept that.

Or you don't. Right. Oh, listen, I accept it. I just want to know your thoughts on the Leafs, though, and where they're at. Do you think that this is a team that should spend assets trying to get better? Well, you'd have to show me the assets first sure uh you know we're going to trade fraser minton for uh chris taniff i'm being facetious they are low on their assets obviously everybody knows that everybody knows everybody's situation there's no secrets but should they go all in?

Their situation for me is different than Calgary. They're a step above that. That doesn't mean they'll always be, and it's not a slam in Calgary. It's a fluid equation. Every team is either moving forward or backwards. I want to make sure I don't get plagiarized on that. That's from Brian Burke. Just just for Bill Ackerman.

Throw him in the mix. We read cards here, too, as you guys do. So the fans are out there. Isn't this a hockey show? Yeah, it's a hockey show. I want to go ahead. Brian Burke always said that to me. So I always give Berkey credit for that because I think it's just a great – it's a simple thought,

but it's a great thought to keep in mind. You're artificially trying to influence your club. The Toronto Maple Leafs should be trying to artificially make their club better for where they're at. It's not perfect, but that's what my opinion is for them. They have a very good hockey team. I want to crawl in your head a little bit from an executive perspective here because I came at work today at around, I don't know, 1.30 Eastern, and it seemed like the Raptors president, Messiah, was on the air.

He's talking about Spicy Pete being traded. And then I'm getting ready to go on the show, and I'm like, is that guy still talking like can somebody get him to shut up no he went for how long hour 15 hour 15 as the president of the raptors lots to say so my question to you is last year i couldn't blink without seeing jimmy rutherford uh as a president kind of calm the waters down in Vancouver. And right now it's a little murky here in Toronto, but we have not heard from Brendan Shanahan.

So how strategic is it for presidents now to come out or and speak and talk to the management or the media? And when is it a good time to kind of back off, in your opinion? How important and strategic is that? I think it's more important when things aren't going well to step up and take responsibility. I used to say that when I ran Octagon, I would be with the guys and we'd meet somebody.

Some other agent might have recruited them, but you come in at a certain part and do your thing. And I'd say, look, I'm just the guy that's here to take all the blame when things go wrong. And if it goes right, everybody else is doing a wonderful job. And I was joking about that when I would say it, but I was also sincere. And that's how I feel a president should be. There's one thing you should know. Everybody has their own book. Like anybody that's managed a team, been an agent, gets to know everybody. Jimmy Rutherford, Jimmy Rutherford is older than me. Okay. Jimmy was playing when I was in diapers. The one thing that people won't know about Jimmy Rutherford is he is absolutely relentless on

asking people's opinions. It's, it's really impressive that you guys positive attribute. What's the big deal about that? I mean, I remember like it was yesterday. I was talking to him. He said, all right, what's wrong with our team, Brian? What do you got? And I was like, ah, I don't like your D I'll be honest. If people ask you, I always feel like it's, you know, normally you just say, well, you know, you guys are making progress. But if people truly want to know, then you always should tell them. That's my opinion in life.

I told Jimmy that. That's not the point of the story. The point of the story is he does it way more than most guys. This is not a slam against Brendan, but I've never heard that about him. Now, maybe he's a Hall of Fame player. He had a Hall of Fame career, obviously. Everybody has their own style. So I can't say anything why you haven't heard more maybe from Brendan. I can only talk about the people that you did that I see patterns, fact patterns that, quite frankly, I think it's what's made them really

great executives. Are there other guys that would never say a word? Lou Lamarillo. Lou Lamarillo has never asked my opinion, but when I asked for his opinion, he was the first person to return a call. And I'll always have respect for Lou for that. So, and, and, and in those moments when Lou is helping you, it's the most things you'll ever learn about Lou Lamarillo because you never learn anything else outside of that. So true. I'm dead serious. But when you ask him in those moments and I, I, I am not ashamed to admit before we let go of coaching Tampa, I called two people, Brian Burke and Lou Lamarillo, mostly because I thought they were the only two that would get back to me right away, and they both did.

Immediately. And Lou Lamarillo was an animal about it. He called me every day for weeks. See how I'm doing. I got it, Lou. Thanks. Yeah, no, Lou was amazing. It was like one, two, three, four, five. This is how you handle it, Lou. Thanks. Yeah, no, Lou was amazing. It was like one, two, three, four, five. This is how you handle it, Brian. And I appreciated it. I have my own opinions and thoughts, but you

got to be able to ask for help, in my opinion. And there's a lot of guys in this league that have been really successful that do it really, really well. Well, great. Now I feel guilty that I hit the ignore button when Sammy and Justin call me. Thanks for leaning on him, Mike. We asked you to, Lotz. Now you need to confess. Who have you guys called to solve problems for the Leafs? I'm joking, you guys.

Lotz, great stuff, man. Really appreciate your candor in this segment. And welcome on our show anytime, pal. Thanks for doing this. All right, I'm going to block both you guys. Thanks, Lotz. Appreciate it. Ryan Lotz speaks from a ton of experience.

Yeah, no kidding. I think the thing I took away from that and it's something i've always an opinion i've always had when you are a team that has the first overall draft pick and there's two good players you want to go you want second you want second because you can always say for the second well we didn't have the first pick yeah and if the guy turns out great that you got at the second, you'd be like, well. We were taking him anyway.

No, not even though we were taking him anyway. It's like, well, we didn't have the pressure of having to make the decision and we got the better guy anyway. Unless it's like a Matthews or like a McDavid or a Bedard. There's a little. I've always felt that way. Do you remember last year, Jimmy Rutherford did a ton. Such a good point. why do you remember last year jimmy rutherford did a ton a ton of tv yeah to calm the water well and it was like and it kind of you know he was great he had patrick alvin the his general

manager but he was the guy that said nope it's on me me. I got to stand up and do this. I haven't seen him this year. Hasn't needed to. He just eats popcorn and watches the game. Let me ask you, here in Toronto, it's four games. It's not nine or ten game losing streak.

We haven't heard from Brendan Shanahan. If by chance this trend continues here throughout the weekend, do you think that at that point we should be hearing from him? No. No? I mean, do I think we should? It would be great.

I think Leafs fans would appreciate that. But I can't think. Is it necessary? Will it help? Outside Rutherford,ford though i just don't have other examples of a president doing it where a gm should i think him i think it just makes way too big a statement yeah it's like we are he talked foundly a mess he talks he talks what he talked once a year at the end tell you why they're keeping everyone yeah it's his annual

we're keeping everyone and the one this year that was the most electrifying press conference in sports history where he buried Kyle Dubas for 25 minutes. I mean, this week we've heard the white noise around change the coach. Oh, yeah. If, in fact, it's not even in the thought process, would him coming out and supporting Sheldon put a rest to all that noise? No. Yeah, probably not. It's probably kerosene.

I think it's the worst thing you can do because I feel like there's a lot of times where it's like the vote of confidence joke with coaches in sports is like the worst thing you can get. The other thing is like how much of this panic in Toronto is because it's Toronto. Like teams lose four games. Yeah. Right? Like good teams lose four games. Yeah. Right? Like, good teams lose four games.

And so how much of that is just volume and noise versus real concern? Would you feel that way at six games? Well, yeah. You know, that's different. Sure. It's different. Changes things if it's six and seven and, you know,

eight and nine or whatever. Listen, with all due respect, like, it's Brendan Shanahan and you know eight and nine or whatever yeah with all due respect like it's brendan shanahan like his voice carries his it's a very powerful voice and he's it's it's stronger than his general manager's voice sure the only thing i'll say is by doing it so infrequently you put massive pressure on when you do it. That's where it's strategic. Yeah. Right?

And say what you will, as many times as we heard from Jimmy Rutherford, you look back at it now, and it's like, it's pretty impressive. I don't even remember anything Jim said, though, because he's talked a lot. And that's what I mean,

like when Dubas would almost never speak. But Treliving's spoken a lot this year. Right. He's come on our show twice. It's not a huge deal. He just kind of tells you what's going on. And like, we used to have those Dubas would almost never speak. But Treliving's spoken a lot this year. Right. He's come on our show twice. It's not a huge deal. He just kind of tells you what's going on. And, like, we used to have those Dubas pressers, and we're sitting there with notepads and, like,

didn't want to miss a thing. And it puts so much weight on all your words. And so maybe it's the case that if they spoke more often, it wouldn't be such a big deal. I mean, they win tonight. They win Saturday. Like, if they can get some points going. Listen, that Vancouver game, I know we got the Calgary game tonight

with the Leafs, but Vancouver's going to be looking at them. And I think they, I'm not sure they embarrassed Vancouver, but that was not remotely the Vancouver Canucks that we see now that lost 5-2. Yeah, they beat them pretty good. They beat them pretty good. Yeah. And I got to think, like Naz Kadri told us the other day,

hey, we know what beating Toronto does. Yeah. Nothing like beating the Leafs. So they got their hands full, and it starts tonight as well. All right, Sammy. All right, it's game time, fellas. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at bet 365 must be 19 plus ontario only please play responsibly kipper to answer your question from

earlier about the flames and leafs leafs are heavy faves tonight minus 135 favorites so you can get the flames plus 115 i would not recommend that bet at minus 135 for the Leafs. I mean, they could easily win the game, but that's just not good enough. I mean, the Leafs have lost four in a row. The Flames have won four in a row. Teams heading in different directions. You could look at a little value with the Flames there, in my opinion, but I would not be going on either side of that.

The ones I am looking at, Ottawa Senators, you know how I like to look at teams that just should not be favored by a lot in a lot of spots the ottawa senators should never be minus 185 favorite against anyone they're playing the montreal canadians tonight uh give me the montreal canadians at plus 155 just beat the new jersey devils in regulation um we'll talk about this a little bit more news and notes minnesota wild just announced that they lost their captain jared spurgeon out for the year surgery so they're reeling they're going in the wrong direction lightning are playing a little bit better recently give me the lightning minus 150 on home ice yeah

and the last one excellent hockey game tonight colorado versus boston oh in bean town uh could be a high event affair and you know color Colorado has been underdogs quite a bit. And I think it's because they give up a lot. Because they have three hockey players. Yeah, they play McKinnon. But those three hockey players may be the three best in the world. So give me Colorado plus 130 in Boston tonight as my three picks for game time. Anything you have to add?

No, I really like the Colorado pick, and also I'm going to do Tampa Bay in regulation there. Yeah, like that too. All right. That was game time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus.

Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Okay, we're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll go through our NHL news and notes. What happens to Gensel in Pittsburgh? Head coach of the

New Jersey Devils last night was not a happy camper. He took a pretty good run at a reporter. We have the sound of that as well. So tons to get into still after the break. Don't go away.

It's a real Kipper and Bourne show. Fresh views on everything in the national football league. It's the fan check down with Matt Marchese and Donovan Bennett. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back jb sammy mckee who's on his way to vegas baby vegas yeah i was gonna put on the jacket for this segment but i decided not where's your uh yogi bear jacket it doesn't look like he's skinned can you you go get it? Seriously? Yeah.

Please go get it. Yeah, I'll go get it. So people think I'm not making it up. Do you remember that little casino, Shays, O'Shays maybe? It was in the middle of all the like good ones on the strip. Really? We used to stay there.

Oh yeah, it was like a cheap one on the strip. They don't have those anymore. I only stayed at Five Star. I'm sure. My wife and I used to go stay at the crummy little one and gamble. And I got to tell you, that's I with no kids. That's living. Oh, we're sorry if you can't pick up the show on. Is that not Yogi Bear?

Was it endangered? No. Hey, boo boo. That is a hey, boo-boo. The reason I wore it is because, as you know, we live in Canada. We do. It's quite cold. Thanks, tips.

And it's pretty warm, as you would be able to tell. Yeah, sure. I didn't want to bring a huge parka, so I wore this. Yeah. Plus, it's a little, you know. And given how cold it is, he had to go into a cave and get it off a hibernating bear. They have security, eh, at these big hotels in Vegas? Yeah, yeah.

They're going to let you in? Yeah, probably not. They call me Big Teddy, baby. He's going to walk out of here and sometimes you're going to throw a bucket of red paint on him. Animal! Hey, boo-boo! All right, where do you guys want to start? This is a hot chat.

Lindy Ruff is not a happy guy these days i mean there's a sense of frustration for sure uh their season guys i mean were we not talking about a team that was next level stuff on the you know if they weren't a team that you could see in a conference final or stand like a final like everybody felt they were they were close they are not having a very good time these days now you need someone to stop a hockey puck right when you know when you don't get goaltending the coach uh is in the crosshairs not that far removed from the people chanting sorry lindy for chanting fire lindy and it may not be too long before they start the other chant again but uh yeah yeah. He's a little upset. Should we throw to this clip here?

I don't know how to throw to it. I haven't heard it. Yeah. Well, this is coming off a 3-2 loss in regulation, mind you. And this is at home to the Montreal Canadiens. And a reporter asked him about a benching so let's have a listen with Holtz just two shifts after his obviously game tying goal what went into that again you don't watch the game very well oh so if you look at the opportunity in the second period where you

threw a puck in the middle of the ice you get get a point-blank scoring chance. In a tight game, in a one-goal game, it's plays like that that we're trying to get back in the game, and I drop down to three lines. We happen to get back in the game. He understands. We're trying to eliminate the pucks that go into the middle of the ice, the puck management part. So when you make a play like that, then it's going to be hard to get back on the ice.

Can we just give them a quality scoring chance off a play where we put it in the middle of the ice, where we don't need to put it in the middle of the ice? Yeah, I like this power play goal. A couple other things I like, but is he going to make the same play again? Okay, for the record, that might be one of the best explanations to a benching i've ever

heard that's perfect from a nhl head coach yes i'll tell you exactly what happened his goal is a power play goalie threw the puck in the middle we're trying to keep the puck out of the middle so he's sitting on the bench with the one watch the game very well? With the one exception. And now we have the best drop ever. There has to be a history there. There had to have been something that kind of pissed Lindy off with this particular reporter. That's me looking at a 30,000 view. I think he's got a problem with the player.

Why are you so pissy? I'm going to need Derek Amadio on that. You don't watch the game very well. Why do you have to dummy down a reporter with that first comment? You don't watch the game very well? You don't watch the game. It's insulting. Why go there on that?

If you're going to give that thoughtful answer, why not just give the thoughtful answer and leave out the part where you insult this guy? You're right. He's sour. They just lost the Habs in regulation. He's sour. He's taking it out on that guy.

But it is a legitimate question that anybody can ask. What was your thought process into a benching? That's as legitimate of a question as any reporter can ask what what was your thought process into a benching that's as legitimate of a question as any reporter and also the assumption in the reporter coach relationship is that i don't watch the well the game is as good as you yeah you're the coach man you're one of the 32 best on earth at this apparently brooks if i want to explain it to you if i knew how to do that i'd be there so yeah you're right you don't need to go with the guy who's just looking for answers on something he doesn't yeah

or maybe he knows and wants you to say whatever now if it was luke fox asking the question sheldon might go at luke you never know there's always somebody that rubs somebody the wrong way. And I'm not suggesting. Listen, Luke, honest to God, there's some times when I watch scrums and I'm like, how can you not ask that? How can you not ask that? Luke's always the one that asks. Luke asks. That guy takes the bat off his shoulders at times.

And it's not easy for those guys to be on the road, be in the same room, look guys in the eye, and ask the tough question. Not only do I not envy that, I have a ton of respect for it. You know, like when a coach is, you know they're mad, you know their livelihood's on the line, and you go, I think you made a mistake here, what happened? I agree wholeheartedly. There's not a thing I can really add.

It's not like everybody out there that's like, oh, Toronto, these people don't ask hard enough questions. Then you go in there and do it. Because it's not easy. It's a really hard thing to do to go in there and do it. And 90% of the time we get a good answer

that we play on here. Luke has asked the question. I'm not just saying that. And it's intimidating. Oh, yeah. But you know what? Those guys want to intimidate the reporters into not asking

those difficult questions. No, you just get annoyed. Like I'm annoyed at you. Is craig tavish no ron wilson right right right that's questioning my integrity as a coach in this league oh he had a oh he had some rivalry derek bradeo's got a library right now this guy's on point give me give me a torts. Come on. The best one of all time is Phil Kessel. This guy's an idiot, man. This guy's an idiot. Kessel said that?

Yeah, I think maybe it was Festchuck that he went after. I forget who he went after, but it was. Yeah. Well, Burke on his way out said about, I think it was Steve Simmons. He's like, you know. The best thing about today is I'll never have to. The crazy thing about that one, looking back, is that he did a presser when he left, Berkey.

Yeah. That doesn't happen very often. Post-fired presser when he left berkey yeah that doesn't happen very often fired presser is that not no but no he was gone like put your mic on so you can play this tomorrow good and raw it was pissed and the one thing i can say playing on the other side of the media for over 20 years is they're all competitors the media the media but they stick together yeah and they watch each other's back and i'm sure without knowing the story between lindy and this reporter that the general feeling is when you watch a head coach talk to a reporter like that, it could be any one of us and it doesn't go over great. And it's one of those things where, again,

outside of me knowing the whole story here, wouldn't be a bad idea for Lindy if he feels like there's no other surface to the story, that he probably should say, I apologize for that comment. It was unnecessary. It doesn't necessarily have to be publicly, but just see him at the rink in the morning or whatever. And if he

did that, it would go a long way with the other reporters too, because this stuff like if you build up like well while you're underachieving as a coach there's a chance that you can get the benefit of the doubt down the road dude they're seventh in the metro right now and they're they run a lot of injuries hughes is out jack is out again yeah this guy gets hurt a lot yeah i mean he's a small guy who plays in the middle of the rink right it's that can happen for sure some good teams struggling like you know looking at vegas they're they've been struggling a lot of injuries there too they're without

is it eichel carrie aiden hill petrangelo it's kind of like they under the radar oh jack's out and then jack has surgery yeah eichel we're speaking of yeah right and like what does that mean uh like four weeks three weeks eight weeks yeah they're second in the pacific right now five points ahead of la seven behind vanc, but certainly hanging on with Edmonton going to be in that mix very soon. Edmonton's actually played four fewer games, so they're coming. I kind of asked Brian Lawton about this a little bit, but LA, losers of 10 of 11, I believe, or 9 of 10, one of them.

And where's your level of concern now because this team looked like Vancouver did does today Winnipeg looks like today they were they were humming here as a contender and now the wheels have fallen off here do you like this team you know i don't think i was ever as high on them as some people were based on the lack of elite talent like top top end guys in la but they're a very good team um you know from kind of from top to bottom pretty pretty stout is todd mcclellan in trouble in in la would they be a team considering something i know that rob blake has like he loves him okay he does but it doesn't necessarily mean that rob blake wouldn't make a tough decision if he had to uh but the one thing you got to remember about Todd McClellan, like he is old school and he leans on.

Asks a lot. Leans on a lot of guys in that room. And some are okay with it. Right. And there's some that, yeah, can go, okay've just about had enough yeah kaliev yeah good goal score great goal score and there there seems to be a ton of friction there conflict with the coach sounding like it i think there's a lot of teams that would love to trade for him really yeah and i think he's a i think it's a really interesting name I think he's a... I think it's a really interesting name. I think he's a 25-30 goal scorer.

Yeah. But cannot find a spot on that team where he's... And they don't score enough in L.A. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Interesting name to watch.

All right. Joe Thornton retiring? Yeah. Retiring his number next year. Good. They should. Wish number next year. Good. They should. Wish Toronto never happened. Yeah?

Yeah. Don't you appreciate it? Doesn't it make you like him more that he wanted to come here and believed in this team? Everything. He didn't do it. Is it just...

It's one scene. It's him in Toronto or is it just generally sometimes players hanging on too long? It was one scene in one reality television show about the Toronto Maple Leafs that changed my outlook on him forever. And it's the one we've referenced a million times. Like, what's wrong? We're in first place. It's like that to me. It's just like, okay.

Told me all I needed to know. I think he's had an all're in first place. It's like that to me. It's just like, okay. Told me all I needed to know. I think he's had an all-time phenomenal career. And he's one of the most loved guys. I just wish the Toronto thing never happened. He was just down in San Jose. And I just, he was that guy. And I got to think of him like. That's why Ryan Getzlaff is just content doing what he's doing.

I just, it just, it didn't ruin him for me. He still had an unbelievable career. He's an all-time guy. Great Canadian hockey player. I wish that never happened. I protest to note Joe Thornton well, but his personality was always kind of loose. And he's the opposite of Jonathan Tate, Captain Sirius.

He's not Captain Sirius. He's the opposite of that. He was no shirt guy uh you know photo bombing guy he could flip the puck i was kind of that guy as a player so i was i root for guys like that so it kind of hurts that he didn't get uh gensel i had reported earlier that he turned down a 50 million million contract at 8.5. Dubas says he's not trading him. It's pure speculation.

Everything's great. You've got to decide, though. I mean, can you let him walk out the door for free and push the envelope on making or not making the playoffs? What do you do? I don't think so. Maybe I'll run into Kyle in Vegas, baby, when I see the Penguins on Saturday night.

Could you see him as a Vancouver Canuck? Yes. Do it. Oh, my God. That would be fun to watch. Okay. Our thanks to Brian Lawton earlier in the show. Eric Francis in our first hour.

Jam-packed night. 11 games. Enjoy them all. And we're back tomorrow on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Have fun, Sammy.