Real Kyper & Bourne - Trade Market with Jason Bukala

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

Nick Kypreos and Gord Stellick are joined in-studio by former NHL scout and Sportsnet analyst Jason Bukala to chat about the prospects of Mikko Rantanen getting traded twice in one season, what he would cost and which team would have the best chance to re-sign the Finnish forward. Then, they discuss the market for Colton Parayko, teams in the best position ahead of the trade deadline, the Bruins' direction, and more. Then, Nick, Gord and Sam McKee weigh in on Connor McDavid's comments about his play since coming off the success of the 4 Nations Face-Off Final, why the Edmonton Oilers should trade for Jordan Binnington and the Senators' rocky February.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Are you guys done? We're going national. All right. Gord's on his best behavior. Nick Kiprios, Gord Stehlikan for the vacationing. Justin Bourne in now joining us. Jason Boukala, former head scout, does a terrific job for Sportsnet. Looking forward to the next 25 minutes because we're going to go down some names. We're going to go down all the Canadian cities. Really interesting time of the year. As a reminder, this hour of Real Kipper & Bourne brought to you by bet 365 all right books I think I want to open up with what we thought a month ago being one of the the bigger prizes out there in

Miko ranton and only to find out he's gone and lo and behold, he's resurfacing right now. Just your thoughts on what has really been played out here, unlike we've, I don't know, ever seen before. A guy in his prime, a superstar in his prime, get traded, only a month later, potentially getting traded again. So in my time, and I haven't been you know out of that meeting for too long it was always deal in the drawer if you're

gonna make that type of acquisition at this type of the at this time of the year. When you're gonna go out and you're gonna sacrifice the assets that they sacrifice and you're gonna bring in a potential let's be honest he's a top 5 player in the league when he's going over 100 points power body pedigree in the playoffs the whole nine yards, right? So I'm surprised that we're at where we're at right now the fit. The timing has been unusual, though I really think he was caught with his pants down in terms of the trade

itself. Like I think he's rattled. He hasn't spent much time in rally yet. He's only been there for I think three home games maybe because of the four nations. Six and nine a bit on the road. Yeah, they've been on the road. So it's been a lot of it's just been an unusual transition I would suggest but having said that this is a business and this is a big ticket item And I'm surprised at Dundon wouldn't have had Tom Dunn and that is the owner Carolina wouldn't had more Confidence that it was in the drawer before the deal actually

confidence that the deal was in the drawer before the deal actually came to fruition. And the drawer thing, because it's called tampering, but the ways of getting around tampering, and Jason, look at all the other trades. Anyone who gets traded, like Cooley in New York, the Vanco, you got a contract mysteriously appears the day later, like you're signed for six years. I mean, that's, you're trying to lock down that thing

before, there really shouldn't be any mystery about what's going on, but Carolina did it twice. Last year they did it with Gensel, and this year, what's weird is, you got the impression they felt there was something in the drawer because they weren't gonna let Gensel happen again, and now there's signs that maybe it could.

That's exactly my take on it. And I'll give you a secondary take. So when the big Florida trade with Calgary went down a few years ago and Hubert O goes to Calgary and also he doesn't have Alexander Barkov in the middle feeding him in the pill and doing the things that he can do. Hubert O likes it, but they had a synergy those two together, right? Now you've got Renton going to Carolina.

I believe, I think we would all agree that they feel like Ajo was going to be a good fit to finish national team members, known each other forever so far. It hasn't quite worked out that well. It could still go off Let's be honest, but I think that it's always interesting to me Like how much better than McKinnon in the short window here? How much better does McKinnon make people around him? You know, like if you look what's going on with with Nakesh there now In in Colorado, it's pretty good and he's playing a lot of minutes a lot inside McKinnon. So there's gonna be a transition time here, but here's the thing, I'm just shocked

that we're at this stage where, what is it? At least there's been an offer on the table, that's how I understand it, you know better Kipper, but it's gotta be north 13 sheets probably, right? It's a lot of dough around there anyways. Okay, so 12, 12 plus, whatever it is, it's a lot of money. There used to be a time where guys were running to the table to sign those types of contracts on on on flat caps. On flat caps. True. Yeah, that's that's interesting in itself.

You know, if you go eight years and you go, you know, whatever it's gonna end up being. So I know you mentioned that you may have been caught with his pants down in terms of the trade and maybe just having this shell shock feeling starting out in Carolina, but he has not played well. No, he hasn't. So if they do put him up to market, would that scare a few teams off that he's not playing well or is that just a given that he is the player we saw in Colorado and not the one

in the last three or four weeks in Carolina. Yeah, I think that the risk reward, the rewards still outweighs the risks. Well, if I'm on the cusp of a Stanley Cup contending outfit, I'm still taking on that risk. And that's what I'll forget that. So he's at, correct me if I'm wrong, he's at 425 right now in Carolina. And depending on how the money gets punted down the road again, you know, this could look interesting for the team that's acquiring them.

So let me just pick up on that and let you go, Gord. In terms of, excuse me, his unique situation and give Dundin credit, because he got Chicago to pick up 50%, and now either Carolina is in a position to pick up 50% or pass it on to a third party, to bring his AAV down to 2.4 million. Meaning that the cap space that needs to be left

to trade for him could be as little as two or $300,000. As a scouting staff, is that a nugget in itself to try to convince any general manager go get this guy? It's like it's like fitting him in for free. Yeah, no, it's a huge piece of the puzzle. If you if you backtrack to if you think you're gonna be real good in the offseason and he's going into his UFA year and he's floated out there in August, let's just let's get crazy for a sec.

They float into you in August. And if you could have said to a staff at that time We can take them on for self to three million dollars. You guys would have been jumping through hula hoops to do that. Obviously, right? So yeah, that's that's absolutely part of it and you start looking across the landscape of the league Guy there's almost every team that's a contender They have to massage it a little bit a few teams, but they can fit that easily So that's where I go back to the risk and the reward here. There's a few things I wanted to stick off what you said there, Kit, for the Chicago retention there.

This is where you gotta be careful when you're retaining money, because the Chicago Blackhawks now are looking to move out, possibly denial, right, Seth Jones. So they have one retention slot left. So now it compresses the marketplace with the less amount of retention slots that you have left on certain items.

They ate money on Rantan, and now they eat up a slot. Now if they go out and they wanna trade Jones and they're gonna have to eat money on Jones, that means that whoever's making another deal with the Chicago Blackhawks somewhere else in Atlanta, they're gonna take on full salary. Yeah, the Hawks will take a dog contract anyway, because Rantan will be done I guess after this year. Probably the other way if they can't retain it. Kipi mentioned about

the Canadian based team. So the term gunslinger, when there wasn't the cap era, you know, there were a lot of gunslingers, right? They just whatever. And, you know, Jimmy Rutherford, I know he's not GM, but Patrick Alvein, it seems that that's a credo there in Vancouver. Calgary made a real hockey trade. Like, I mean, that wasn't a trade deadline deal. Stan Bowman's in his first year in Edmonton and they got one more hurdle, they got things that aren't going right. Winnipeg, you know sometimes they've been quiet, Kevin Shevelday went big another year. Ottawa, man oh man if you got one player that can make a difference, you know you better be looking at it. And then you know Brad Trelovin did all that gun slinging in

Calgary. So I'm curious about that mentality even in a cap era particularly to keep the theme it really seems like a wild West trade deadline period this time. Yeah I mean if there's a gunslinger out there lurking in the weeds it's probably Bill Zito in Florida. He's gonna depending on what happens here with how long the Chuck's gonna be I don't think he's gonna be out that long, but he's gonna definitely try and get creative here. He might do nothing, but he's gonna try for sure to do something that's gonna be outside the box, I would suggest.

I'd like Chevy to step up and be that guy this time around for a variety of reasons. A, they're a heck of a hockey team. So I think that they're one or two pieces away. If you look at the Winnipeg Jets statistically across the board, goaltending, power play goals for all these, you know, these long range analysis now, they're great.

You know, top of the table, penalty kills only 79%. And they don't start with the puck enough in the defensive zone. And we all know that when you live on the margins and playoffs, again, to a overtime face off, a key penalty kill, 10 minutes left in the third period, these types of things. These secondary players that don't look like much that you pick up at the deadline, they

end up being super valuable. So I'm going to float a name to you guys, and I'm not in the room or business, but I was doing some things on here. Pajol in New York, okay, I don't know what the Islanders are going to do necessarily, but he's five million. He's got cost certainty for next year. I don't know what the Islanders are gonna do necessarily, but he's five million. He's got he's got cost certainty for next year I don't love the player offensively I think there he hit a homerun years ago that we thought he could be something that he's not but he's a secondary guy, right?

He's almost 60% in the faceoff that guys I'm talking 700 draws and he kills penalties He averages almost two minutes a night killing penalties So I float a guy like that out there because if you can go out and get him he's got cost certainty for next year term He's gonna score you 40 45 points. It's going to score you 40, 45 points. It's five million, but the cap's going where it is. There's a fit right there. And then you go and you think of a guy like an Alexiac on the back end from Seattle, something like that, because the Jets, they could play it out to have a special $12 million to spend

next week. So it's going to take assets to get it done. They don't want to trade their first rounders, Gordy. You know that they're a draft and development outfit. But with where the business model of the game is going, I believe it's time to strike there at Winnipeg. I wrote an article today for the Toronto Star and it revolved around Rantanen and the possibility of the Leafs bringing him in as almost an insurance policy if in fact, Martner leaves

in the offseason and Rantaninen would have had a sufficient amount of time to see how much he loves Toronto and maybe he slides right into that scenario. Florida can do the same thing with Rantinen in terms of bringing him on board and if you lose Sam Bennett, then you've got money to go to get ranting in. How important is it for a hockey club

not only to get a guy but to keep them from going to another team here? Like it would be counterproductive not only not to get ranting in if you're Leafs, but to watch them go to Florida. Do you guys have those type of conversations? 100% you do, absolutely. As a matter of fact, you'll take it a step further and you'll get

news of a deal. I'm sure you might have went through it back in the day too. You'll get news of a deal. Okay, it's happening. This is happening. Which might make you pull off another deal because that deal right there from the outside, you've done all your homework. You've looked at rosters. You've looked at, you know, how you're gonna potentially match up against the top teams in your conference to start. And you say to yourself, we can do this now because that doesn't make them any better. Or them retaining that,

that doesn't improve their locker room, a variety of things, all the intel that you've collected through the course of the season. So yeah, that's a fascinating thing because people will throw rocks at a glass house when a transaction doesn't get made. But trust me when I tell you, it's calculating as well where some teams will sit there and not make that transaction

with that team because they know they're letting them off the mat and that might actually make them better if I got to face them. It absolutely happens. Wow. Tell you another one is, and Bruce Boudreaux, George Murphy, they'll talk about a 2010, they had a really good Washington capital team and they went quantity and that was about you

Joe Corvos Walker and everyone was pissed because they moved down but you get quality and you know and so one thing so I'll use Detroit Columbus Ottawa all three of those teams have been out of the playoffs far too long sure one of them will definitely get it maybe two and they're all vying for a spot right now so you optically first of of all, you wanted to help, but also optically for the owner quite often, or just in general, the fan base, but also in the dressing room.

Like you make that, you get a quality player and then dressing room, they go, you know what? They're working in the front office. They're working in the front office. And I'm wondering those three teams about, hey, and one player can make a difference, right? You don't wanna leave any stone unturned. So about the Villihusso clearing some salaries kind of interesting in Detroit.

So I'm curious, Detroit, Ottawa, Columbus, which by the way is Cod, if you use the three, that's easy to remember. Anyway, how would you look at those three as far as being active? Ottawa is going to have a real hard time. CapSpace is limited. Asset management is is gonna be problematic. They don't have a ton of Assets that I believe are as attractive to some other teams Columbus I gotta be honest. I on the panel about a month ago

I I said Columbus might sneak in you know Okay and it was almost as a bleeding heart a little bit too because I thought they were playing well and I want a good thing to Happen in this franchise. They deserve it, right? Everybody there deserves that. But in terms of the big picture there, I would say that Columbus and Detroit

are gonna come right down to the wire. I think Stevie Heisman, especially with the job Todd McCollum has done there, honestly, if they make playoffs and where they were and where they're going, he won't win Coach of the Year, but it's a name that people will float around saying, what a great job.

So both those teams there, they have assets to give and they have cap, or pardon me, draft capital to give as well. So Ottawa's in tough guys, they're in tough. The injury bug too. So you know, to your example, you just spoke of there, Kipper, if you look at what they have to deal with, injury wise, up the middle of the ice there,

if I'm anybody else in the team, I want to eliminate playoff contending teams It's I'm not feeding them a bone, you know deal with it eternally like they were badly all man last night against the Jets As far as the Boston Bronz are still Looking like they're in the thick of things, but they're really not in terms of what they can do here We're just gonna see them kind of quietly go into this. I know Brad Marchand's out there. I reported on sportsnet.ca that I thought it was highly unlikely they'll move him even if he doesn't get his contract extension.

And you hope that they can work something out down the road. But it doesn't appear like we're going to see a lot of activity here out of the Boston Bruins. Yeah, that's a tough one. When you talk about owners, I'm sure you're familiar with Jeremy Jacobs in Boston. Let's just say that he definitely likes the cash checks. So the Boston Bruins in the cycle that they appear to be entering into right here, it's not great for the trajectory, let's just say.

And I don't see them getting in. There's a lot, like, if you look at their plus, minus, and goals, four goals against, like you could go through a whole bunch of different things there. Trent Frederick just went down with injury. There was an, I don't know the severity of that, but that was a guy that I was thinking

that they could get some value. I don't think he'll play before the trade deadline. So that's gonna be, that's a problem. That's a problem. So somebody's gonna wanna get the medical on him to see where that's going. Cause I's that's gonna be that's a problem That's a problem So somebody's gonna want to get the medical on him to see where that's going because I think he's a piece that has value coming back so Big picture there though. I think that they're just gonna be that team that's you know wavering in the middle of that wild card for the next couple years and

See where the prospects playing out, but we'll see well we wonder about random, but it looks like now. It's not if I mean Seth Jones man He's gonna go somewhere, and I'm curious the blue chip Ness how you how he's valued around the league And you threw another one out St. Louis open for business like Colton Freckle. Yeah, that's a blue chip that is so I'm curious your feel on value to yeah peak value yeah, so I'm curious your feel on both. Peak value too. Yeah. Peak value.

Yeah. So from my perspective in the chair, you asked me in our situation room, Gord, what would you rather do? Jones or Pareco? Different age categories, not far off, but different age categories. Pareco from next year on has $28.75 million left on his contract in real money. Okay? $28.75.

Jones, even if they absorb half, let's assume they're going to have to absorb something. So let's call it half. And you playing that out over whatever that's up. The money almost equals out to be very, very similar. So how do you manage the assets? I think Pareto is definitely a cost more than Jones. I like Pareto way more than Jones. Period. And I have a bias, so I have to be clear with you guys that I have never been able to shake off my backside. And that is that in the Barkov draft in New Jersey going way back, that draft was Jones was supposed to go first overall, supposedly.

And then it was McKinnon, Barkov, Duran, and then Jones. Yeah. Okay. And we brought them all in for interview. And right then and there when we were because it's big pick We are second overall the way that Jones interviewed at that time for us It it stuck with me and I haven't been able to shake it I just want to throw it out there

So I'm not so sure that if I'm a Stanley Cup contending team that that's where I'm going is what I'm trying to tell you I haven't been able to shake that bias Pareto on the other hand take a look at this It's unbelievable top five in in minutes played in the league. Top five, I believe, in... He is the leading even strength goal scorer of all defensemen in the National Hockey League. In the top 35 scores in the National Hockey League, he leads... He's the only guy in the top 35 who doesn't play primary power play. I grossly underrated just how good this guy is, and he is gonna cost a ton. Give me something here, a top six forward,

a top four, a young top. If you're the Winnipeg Jets, I'll give you this, okay? Because they can fit him cap-wise, no problem, and they can take on the term. It would cost you Cole Profetti, your first rounder this year, which I would be willing to give, no problem, because that could be this 30 second pick,

this draft's just okay, guys, okay? So the back after the first round, I'm probably giving that up for sure They're gonna ask for next year st. Louis doesn't have much draft capital this year. They have four picks period So when they're going through this this is curious do they want to load up this year or punt it to next year? So it's gonna be perfetti a first rounder and then it's gonna be a fifth because you're gonna be taking on all the salary they're not gonna absorb any on the other end and And they're gonna ask for more than that. That's how much competition is going to be there. There's a Rzhevsky kid, I keep throwing out his name, Mark Killier is going to kill me

with the Jets, but he's a diamond in the rough playing in Moscow Dynamo, fifth round pick by the Jets a few years ago. One more kind of chip prospect, right? He's a top six NHL forward if he comes over. Okay. So there's some risk reward there. So that's the type of bulk that it's going to take for a deal like that. Can are some teams like the Oilers the Leafs like they're

not asset driven right now, right? There is where the Oilers have a tough time. Or there's gonna have a Colton perico. They're gonna they're gonna have to shop more in the Mario Ferraro, David Savard, maybe Alexia waters, those types of waters. They've only got one grade a prospect in their system and that's Savoy They picked them up from buff which is curious, but they haven't drafted They had just like over the last between 2021 and now I believe they've they've only had like four or five picks in the top three rounds the weather

So it just planes out to be not very deep, right? It's it's a lot of averages there. They're in tough that way and then they got a four or five picks in the top three rounds. So it just planes out to be not very deep, right? It's a lot of averages. They're in tough that way, and then they gotta, depending on what goes on with Kane, they gotta massage their cap situation as well. So, let's talk about Thomas Harley, I guess this morning, 18th overall pick.

Dallas has done a great job keeping picks, drafting really well late in the first round. Maverick Bork's another one, Wyatt Johnston, on and on and on, right? So, and it's funny, I was kidding, not kidding earlier, but talking about a big trade I made, Ken Reget for two first round picks from Philadelphia. I love Kenny Reget back in the day.

I love it, but I also realized later on, Bobby Clark knew it wasn't a very good draft. We were really up on the draft. It wasn't a really good draft. So, the point is, at this year, if you're in the playoffs, is it the hell with it? It's the kind of draft that the first round, at this year, if you're in the playoffs, is it to hell with it? It's the kind of draft that the first round pick, it's not that kind of draft, it's not a deep draft,

so it's for sale? Or is there a certain number, like is it 12th, is it 15th, 18th, 20th, that you really wanna hang onto that pick? Yeah, my line in the sand right now is probably round 18. And then it really starts to be gray after that you know you're kind of throwing darts there's a lot of similarities between 19 and honestly Gord like 55 like it goes there's that much of a range.

Yeah so when you start when you start again I always talk about the margins but that's also for me when I'm running our staff or amateur staff I'm saying like we're splitting hairs on a guy at 19 we just spent an hour talking about him and we're gonna talk about the same guy at 55. So now I'm going up to Dale Talon, my manager at that time saying, listen, we're splitting hairs on 19 to 55 have at her because that's where the value's at

and we're gonna be fine. So let's get aggressive. That's my recommendation anyways. As far as the Vancouver Canucks go, was Miller like Jimmy's big one? Is there anything left outside of Brock Bessar's decision to be made in Vancouver? I wish I could sit here and tell you for sure that has been such a teeter totter from the get go this year. It's amazing to me if you really on the positive side, the amount of injuries and internal strife that they were dealing with from

Puck drop basically this year right Demko's been out Heroic miss a lot of time Hughes obviously all these things. They're still in it. They're still in it. So there's enough there There's still enough talent. So do you own rental Besser? I don't know I guess that's a that goes up to the chain to to your owner because we're right on the customer playoffs You want to own rental him? I don't see a path to Brock Vester returning in a Vancouver Canucks uniform I think the Minnesota Wild for example will pay him more than what the Vancouver Canucks are willing to pay him on a longer term deal and he's a he's a I don't want to just call him a One-trick pony, but he kind of is isn't he guys like he's a hash marks down center

The ice guy slap tip on the power play that kind of what you need you do need that but you also need it In the right now the caps going up So here's my contradiction the caps going up if you can live with his pace and you believe that what you got coming later on the lacquer mac he's all these other guys are gonna be able to Or peterson's gonna be better and is gonna be able to complement each other more I guess you go down that road, but he's not getting any faster and he's not old So, you know Washington is such a great job retooling quickly Oh did they ever and it kind of dwarfs such see the Calgary Flames like last year they all of a sudden became sellers

They had a change in the middle. So it was kind of the year was in flux They had to sell a lot including Markstrom and they bounced back like they did this year and and Hubertos found his way And they make a real trade with Philadelphia for some pieces, right? You know, you know getting a frost and Farabee and that so I'm curious that you've done a lot of stuff in Calgary And I could see you're saying okay, you know what we got a right stay the course. They're saying man We're so close. Yeah, we're so close to getting the playoffs that do we go one, do we try one? If Vancouver's looking, do we try to make a bit of a splash as well to overtake the Canucks?

Yeah. So if they do go down that road, because again, they've got draft capital, tons of draft capital this year, unfortunately, but it's there. Okay. So there's going to be some buyer that's going to want something. And they've got some really strong assets coming up through the system like Henry Muse Has had a great year in the interior league Zane Perrex gonna be close to NHL ready? So they've got these types of guys

I would be of the appetite if you're gonna do it do it again sort of like in the Philly Mold if you can so the Mario Ferraro type situation where he's a lefty if you look at Rastwood Sanderson and Weger on the Right side those guys are logging or weeks plays both sides But they're logging 24 minutes a night and they do what they do shop blocked heavy lifting It would be nice to get another guy like that, you know They're kind of patch working it a little bit there was slowly of and some other guys So that's where I would go because Ferraro was 26. He's at 325. He's another year You can see where that trajectory is going. That would be my appetite there

year, you can see where that trajectory is going. That would be my appetite there. Do you think the Washington Capitals have kind of messed this whole thing up moving forward? Because if I'm any owner, particularly Boston, St. Louis, Nashville, Rangers, if they miss out, it's like, I don't want the three to five year program to turn, I want the Washington Capital one. Well, the Vegas program. And like, not everybody's gonna get that lucky. Are they? No. In the next 12, 18 months?

No, and you know, it even goes back before that, like when they brought Strowman even, like some of these pickups that they've made, real savvy, savvy pickups. The one thing I would say to this guys is that I Believe it you brought up Dallas. Okay, if you look at Jimmy, you know, Joe Mac Donnell's are director of scouting So when they were all winning cups in Detroit where they they were all there together like Joe Mac Donnell most of his staff is scouting staff came to Dallas with Jimmy know, right?

So they've been together forever and doing things. It's the same in Washington Kipper. Like it's the same. They have, they get into a room, they all think the same. There's nobody that's outside the box. There's no, there's no fly in the ointment. So they have a plan, they stick to a plan and they tow the rope in a certain direction. So I think it's really important because when you get into draft situations, free agency when you're spending too much money, trade deadline, when you get in there, you're not going to waste any time with fluff.

You know exactly how you guys wanna build your team, and this is what happens. Yes, there's some luck involved, but there's also a blueprint of how they like to do their homework, and so they're gonna take more swings that end up being home runs. Yeah, you know, something like,

we talk about the Penguins sticking with players. That might have been the capitals, if Baxter, Oshie, and Kuznetsov, circumstances didn't come, that okay, you don't have a sentimental right to keep them like all of a sudden maybe in a way they did kind of a favor you wouldn't think that way but maybe at the right time it was time for a change and there was no choice because of the health situation. So Sid screwed man he's never gonna play a meaningful game again with the Olympics next year. The Olympics. It's gonna be a

long time coming in Pitt. They're not gonna be... now the pressure's on. Kyle Dubas, Wes Clark, he worked for me in Florida, he was here in Toronto. Pressure's on. You're gonna have to get really good. He did have a window, but he also kind of got handcuffed a little bit with Malkin and LeTang. They don't have any kids. For sure. They have noang. They don't have any kids for sure They have no kid then they don't have enough prospects I like San Jose as prosper like yeah, they're whatever but Pittsburgh when they said oh We're gonna go they don't have any kids on there. They don't have enough kids on the roster

Yeah, and then I'm gonna kids coming like it's it's gonna be bad for a while I'm talking like so he's in white going into your three next year Kyle there He's got seven year deal. It won't get good until year seven and then he'll be on the clock to, it better be getting really good at that time. I'm curious because that whole thing with the ownership, whatever's going on there now, trying to sell 49 points,

I think of the team, if I'm not mistaken, is I'm curious to see how that whole thing, because when Pitt isn't good, guys, remember back in the day, when they don't get good, people don't come to games in Pittsburgh. Jason, when I, my time with the igloo? Yeah, I 3,000 fans I had a friend in the seats I went down and joined them because that that was the year they entered drafting Mario

So I that was that was the lowest crowd I ever saw in my time and there were some low crowds around the league It's a serious time. It's gonna be it's gonna be fascinating to watch There's no question all these scenarios and these conversations must have happened before Sid Crosby agreed to an extension this past summer, but I'm just wondering if Maybe it gets revisited in the offseason. You know what I watch him and McKinnon. I'll be a fan for a sec I watch him and McKinnon, you know the fun the brotherhood. It was great, right? It was great And you can tell they have a shine on for each other, and then as soon as I'm watching that,

it brought me back to like when Ray Bork got traded from the Bruins to the Afs back in the day, Patrick Wab, obviously that was a different type of thing, but I don't know, and in my dream scenario, I kind of see where, as if he goes and knocks on Kyle's door and says, I'd like one more last run at this, as if they're gonna ever hold him back for that Yeah, they'll do whatever whatever you want to yeah But kippy I was saying yesterday because they get annoyed in Pittsburgh and hey, he's got the right to decide

I totally get it. Let's be selfish. I want to see him play deep in the playoffs. I don't see all we play I want the best players going deep in the playoffs and you saw that with the four nations face-off Sydney's still one of the best players So that that's what I'm saying. I totally get and I don't get why he's doing it but that's fine I respect it but I want to see the best players go deep year in year out. I'm 100% it's it's kind of like to me in baseball terms when Tony Gwyn was with the San Diego Padres forever and you're like just put a Yankee uniform or even when the Jays were great back then you know put that uniform on it and win a World Series. Yeah, that's right.

Sid's won it already. I don't want to over hype this, but that's just kind of, you know, as you go out the door type thing. Looks great stuff, buddy. Thanks guys. Great to be with you. What do you got tonight? I'm going across the way, a little hockey central of late night games.

All right. So, you know, you know how that works. We sure appreciate your time. And Kipi, the nice suit. I thought he was getting audited today, but anyway, so, so no, so you're actually. You know what? I don't know if you were wearing your whisper 2000 today or what Gordy, but I was getting a hounded with my business today from the from, you know, those types of people. So thanks. Thanks for bringing it up. Well, have

a good show. Or the ultimate being counter Brooks. Thanks again, pal. Enjoy the rest of your night. And we'll be back here with Sammy McKee after the break. Hey, it's Blake Murphy and I'm Matt Bonner. Join us weekday mornings at 11. As we break down all things, Toronto Raptors. It's the Raptor show on sports net five 9090 the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. The Kipper, I'll score it. Stellix Sammy McKee is a reminder of this hour of real kippers brought to you by bet three, six, five. So Gordo, I know we're going to get into a few news and notes, but are you do

game time and then I want to get into Gordo Talking there you're good. Yeah, it's game time presented by bet three six five This is the absolute odds and find out why several ordinary at bet three six five. That's my 19 plus. There you only please play responsibly Lots of action tonight on a Thursday night in the NHL big one in Florida with the rematch of the Stanley Cup finals Florida hosting the Edmonton Oilers The Edmonton Oilers obviously if they lost four in a row now looking to avoid more in a row looking to avoid losing five in a row They are underdogs against the Panthers plus 120

I got some a McDavid clip for you after after game time some McDavid stuff for you I would imagine that he gets off the Schneid tonight. I Wouldn't even I would even go as far as to say maybe a two or three point game for him Give me Connor McDavid to get three points tonight in a Stanley Cup final rematch at plus 450 Looking at some other action on the ice, the Winnipeg Jets in Nashville, the take on the Nashville Predators, looking to extend their winning streak to 12 games, fellas.

They are one minus 135 favorites, as you would imagine, against the Nashville Predators. The Jets are having an unbelievable season. The Vancouver Canucks in Anaheim to take on the Ducks in the second half of back to back after a big win against the Kings last night. The Canucks are minus 125 on the money line. The Anaheim Ducks are plus 105. And that was Game Time presented by Bet365.

Visit the app for installers and find out why it's never ordinary. Bet365 must be 19 plus. Ontario Only. Please play responsibly. Okay, I'll get back to you but let's let's follow it up with Connor McDavid because he was asked about his emotional state in terms of coming off such a Huge tournament as we know last Thursday to The daily grind right back at it you have that sounds we got the clip here. Yeah

That'd be lying if I said, you know, I've been feeling good out there you know, it's been tough to to to get going Which is obviously not an excuse. I gotta find a way to get going here. So obviously big emotional week exciting week last week and exciting week last week and you know back to back to reality pretty quick news flash scored he's human yeah well what about people saying he hasn't been

the same NHL wise since the suspension and before the suspension when it was argued he should have had a suspension you know I don't know I I can't remember those games because I'm I think of the four nations face off and how we played played phenomenal. But he's human. You don't hear that very often. Edmonton is not just losing. They're losing. They're you know, they're hooked and the coach called that, you know, accurately, I don't mind the term but fragile like it's weird. You're one game away from winning a Stanley Cup. And you're hitting not just a bit of a low but kind of a fragile state a fragile state of the season can I read these stats to you from our friend Jason

Gregor in Edmonton never seen never seen before stats from a David eight games without a point five on five six games though being on the ice for a goal at five on five I would scored ten nothing at five on five over the last six games and he said to me he said he needs to get going. Rari, you hear him say that, expects him to jump from 97 tonight. That is, those are eye-popping numbers for McDavid. Eye-popping numbers.

And I know over the last little while on our Leaf Hour edition of our show, Austin Matthews hasn't shot a goal against a goalie now in like nine or ten games. We're just not used to seeing our stars in the game go on a, I don't know, a human pace. The opposite of a heater. We have to ask Jack Hughes. Yeah, Jack Hughes, what's the...

A cooler. I don't know. There's a heater and a cooler. Ten years now he's been in the league, right? A good 10 years. I don't know. Is it possible that there's just a bit of a wall? We're talking about McDavid? Yeah, sure. I'll even give Connor that, right? Is it can they just, are they okay to hit a bit of a wall, hopefully temporarily? Well, I mean, geez, compared to Sid, Sidney Crosby and Ovechkin, I'm trying to think.

I don't know what, well, hey, remember OV in the playoffs against Montreal when they got, you know, and they said, oh, they figured him out. He's only got one move, right? You know, just, so, so I don't know whatever it may be. So I don't know if you call it a wall or whatever it may be. And hey, the team component comes into play as well. Like, you know, when you're,

and does that mean, unfortunately, there's not that kind of depth? Because when they play ordinary, the team plays really ordinary. That's not a good sign. I think it does. And I think it just, I think it just points in the direction that

if he's not doing McDavid-like things, they're gonna have a very hard time winning. Him and Leon have been carrying the team for so long that maybe it's just catching up a little bit. Well, and they made the great pick up with Zach Hyman. That was great, but then they're thinking, okay, Arvidsson, Skinner haven't really happened yet. Just other complimentary pieces that they've tried

to get around them So I know we shall see do you think you know we talked about it. I think maybe at the start of this week, but Coming back from you know the training camp the start of the year where you come back like they they had a slow start To the year where you know It's it's hard to get up for these games because you could the last meaningful games you played in Was the game five six and seven of the Stanley Cup final you come into the start of the year? It's a little bit slow After coming off that week, which he talked about there where it's the highest of highs

It's it doesn't get any more intense than those games were played the Canada and US US games Like I think it is natural for him to have a little bit of a lull But the thing would be that it started before that. I don't know what the total argument is for that, looking ahead to it, looking back to it. But those were some pretty, pretty impactful, intense games to put right in the middle of a mundane sort of dog days of the season. Is there something Gord that Stan Bowman can do between now and the trade deadline to rejuvenate this guy to give him some emotional kind of jolt with somebody coming in. Well, it's funny because Corey Perry was that kind of guy, right?

You know, I mean that Connor McDavid wanted and they got him and he paid a little bit more than Corey Perry was getting, right? So yeah, I'm not saying there's not a Corey Perry type, but I don't know what, you know, you brought in, you know, Connor Brown's been there for a while. He was a teammate in junior. I think they really tried in the summer that little bit of tweaking and they still were one win away from winning a Stanley Cup. So I'm always trying to get back perspective. But then also, it's a new year, and quite often, a year later, that could be a bigger in the rear view mirror than you think, right?

So what are you thinking? What kind of name could do it? Like what? Bittington. Oh, they're not gonna bring a goalie. I don't think they're gonna bring a goalie. I know they probably won't, but they probably should seriously consider it. I think he's the one guy

that can come in with that that confidence that strut that call whatever you want, but we all saw it and yeah, it hasn't been that pretty the last few years for him in in st. Louis, but His his I mean, it's a in St. Louis but his I mean it's a it's a good arrogance that I think he could bring in that room right about now that that unfortunately Skinner can can never get to until he wins the game seven of the final game and it's funny because when I think of goaltending trade deadline moves there's been so few of

them but when the the orders made it to the final another time, it was Dwayne Rollison. Now we got hurt late in the playoffs, but that was a quiet trade, I think, for a first round pick, and he was a difference maker. And you know, that's when they had Pronger and all those, you know, so to your point about that, because that's the one other area,

they seem to have brought in D, you know, depth in that. And again, I go back, I'm gonna give them a lot of equity and cache that they made game seven in the Stanley Cup final. But as long as goaltending continues, like the Chicago Blackhawks have got answered that year, right, they thought the goaltending wasn't gonna be good enough and they won three Stanley Cups

with two different goaltenders. But if that question keeps being, you know, a niggling kind of question, and you know, it's not, not I give Fitzgerald Tom Fitzgerald credit last year New Jersey Like, you know, I didn't get my coach my ex coach Could have goaltending and what else Colorado? Holy mackerel Mackenzie Blackwood So I don't know is there someone that's a lesser price than Bennington that can do what Mackenzie Blackwood's done for the Colorado Avalanche you wrote You wrote in your piece today,

I think maybe in the Kippers corner part or whatever part of that about Marshand and how you don't think he's going anywhere. But that's another guy there that walks in there and changes the field. And it's a weird thing or we're dynamic right now with Evander Kane on where is he? Yeah.

Is he skating skating not skating? Is he can he get in games before after the trade deadline? but it just Is that not the feel of adding a player at the deadline if he was to come back in or where is he? Well, Yanni Gord's another one guys aren't healthy, right? You got went through in Toronto about Nick Foligno. Like, you don't have a lot of time to get fully healthy. And it's a big enough, we're seeing Mikko Randon

just under, you know, trying to get adjusted, a healthy player, an elite player. And, you know, it isn't that easy. I'm gonna ask you a question, because we're talking about writing. Like, you're like JD Salinger right now. Like, do you go home, like, do you go home and do you have like a sweater with like leather things and do you have an ascot

and do you have a pipe? And you know, just say, Amory, I don't want to be bothered. I'll have a little, I'll have a little liqueur or something. And I don't like it. Would you say the kipper in the rye? The kipper in the rye, very good. Like I, yeah, I just, I like this. I like this new phase.

You know, we always gotta grow. And you've been writing for a while sportsnet.ca and the star But now you're sure like I mean Damien Cox is golfing all the time and you're churning out columns every day man Like I'm saying that with admiration. So I didn't know if that's a whole lifestyle change. I'm growing but just in the wrong places I could assure you I wouldn't look to how many I you know Vander came played the whole playoffs like I I was surprised, he played 20 games to them last year in the playoffs. I didn't remember it being that much.

I don't know what's going on there, but something doesn't feel right there. Yeah. I mean, he adds a, that is a legit, power forward, physicality, guy who can shoot it. Perfect guy you wanna add. Doesn't sound like anybody's excited

to get him back or anything, you know? It has been not talked about at all. No, no one brings it up. Not at all. A lot of heat on Bouchard when he's not creating offense. And I think it's tied into the goal-tenning. It's like, how do we really know for sure Skinner is the guy still with the lack of support that

he's getting up front? So with the tendency to be adding another blue liner than going out there and changing goaltenders? I think it was Brian Lotton not Steve Valiquette who brought up stats statistically. Evan Bouchard is playing a lot better than people think. It's just that he has kind of those moments, right? And- He's got the Jake Gardner-itis

where it's like the one big mistake that that's what everyone sees, but you don't see a lot of the other stuff that he does. Yeah, so that was interesting. Cause I, yeah. And then you got Darnell Nurse, you keep looking at it and you go, okay, the unfairness of a number, a number defining you

and the number's too big, right? On his, kinda like Tavares was going through for a while in Toronto about the number, the guy's playing well, but the number is at a certain level. So you kinda look at the D there and then, nurse has a big game and any, whatever. So it just seems to be a mixed bag of their Matias, that was a great acquisition.

Like they made it to game seven of the Stanley Cup final Okay, like there are only only two of 32 teams Played in the Stanley Cup finals. So you you'll have to keep an element of perspective about that in Edmonton they are saying nurses out day to day with uh, Undisclosed injury so he will not be in the lineup against Florida tonight load management no no injury Oh mark Ottawa quick conversation there sure yeah it's not where the Ottawa Senators wanted to find themselves here they thought that they could get Pinto back in the lineup and Kichuk and Norris.

That didn't happen. We'll see what happens on the weekend here but yeah they're riddled as well. Well and you know Omar hurt again right but even before that like it's interesting about as you know Kip you look at someone's season and I find goaltenders in particular and they'll as you know, Kip, you look at someone's season, and I find goaltenders in particular, and they'll go, you know, like remember Trevor Kidd never bounced back from that shoulder injury, right? Like he was like one of the better goaltenders in league at the time,

I think it was in a skills competition, he hurt his shoulder, you know, and you look at, they were going great, they got hurt, and they didn't replicate it, players in general, but also goaltenders, and that's why Anthony Stoller is coming back the way he has so quickly in Toronto really impresses me That's a you thought your Demko struggled for a couple games now. He's heard again and Linus Almark Couldn't pick up initially where he was the hottest goalie in the NHL when he got hurt You know before and then couldn't pick up and now hurt again

And so there's kind of similarities with the Vancouver situation Although right now You know Kevin Lankin and seems to be the best Next plan B on on those two teams he saved them yeah, you go I was just looking at Alex Adams piece from last night about the the Jets and Ottawa game and he has a like a little stat in here from from natural stat trick the first 13 games this season All mark was an 881 with a 310, minus 1.47 goals saved above expected.

And then that stretch that you were talking about, from November 27th to December 22nd, he had a 148 goals against average and a 952. On fire. Yeah. And you look at where they were in the standings. And everybody's like. It was happening.

I get 8.25 for him now. I get it. And he was that good, that straight. And then he disappeared. Disappeared and then he comes back and in his last four now he's an 8.91 save percentage with a 4.35 goals against. And he's a minus 0.86 goals that's saved above expected. But it's really up and

down up and down that's the last thing you can have from your goalie like the Incas we talked about this from the start of the year with him about handling the starters workload and Valley was always joking about the doctor season off like there's these questions with him and it's just it's kind of unfurling in the worst possible way for the cents. Just again, hate to see the Ottawa Senators miss the playoffs by a point or two and go back and go. Save your save. Really happy that Brady and Matthew

got to cherish this family country thing, but missed the playoffs again. But again, Johnny Goodrow, the tragedy, coming back, you know, finally coming back Boone Jenner, Sean Monahan, like, how about, and how about Marchenko's back now, the guy takes a puck to the face and all the stuff, and here's the Columbus Blue Jackets that passed Ottawa. So I'm just saying about teams that aren't good, injuries

crush you, big injuries crush you the good teams That's why Paul Maurice can relax about Matthew Kachuck who up it appears. It isn't super serious I don't but he can relax Yeah, cuz they're gonna be in the playoffs with the Leafs did this year when they missed their half their bottom six They're half their guys are out and they still found a way to win in the forwards. Yeah So I mean like Columbus is surprisingly finding a way with those are those are those are significant injuries Right and Columbus is finding a way in the yeah sure When we came out of break, I said I wanted to get something

Into something with you and then I forgot we had a game time. So Yesterday I think it was yesterday last night or maybe the night before I'm scrolling through my phone and I I Go to my wife look Emory. There's this intoxicated Buffoon gonna jump on a mechanical bull and and it looks like gourd Stelick and she goes wow he really does look like gourd that's so strange and you've got him on this week And then I found out it was really you. It was really me, yeah.

Yeah, I'm, hey, you gotta poke. Okay, please explain. Okay, and I was not inebriated at the time, whatever. I'm not that, so, okay. I am like, as a 60-something guy, you know, you gotta try things. So my wife, Lisa, there was a curling fun bonds, well, the cricket club, as you remember of,

and after great social section, by the way, curl a lot of fun. So we had the dinner, all that, after there's a band and everything, and she got the idea to rent a mechanical bowl. So it's not at a bar somewhere. So it was a lot of effort and money, get the mechanical bowl up there, the cricket club.

So after dinner and that there's it's there everyone It's kind of like a buffet line, you know, nobody wants to go first So I thought I got it I got to help lease out here I got to get so I I Wrote it a second time as well with the same kind of a soul better So my buddy Chris T hand was videoing and into his credit He said well, I'm not gonna share it unless people unless you give my permission your permission So I like I look like I'm climbing on a surfboard and then I get up and I fall Okay, so I I wanted to get it going and it did get people it was a big success

I hardly recommend it but I get up there first of all kippy and Sammy. There's technique. I didn't know any technique I should have leaned back I'm up there. I'm exhausted from the climb. Okay It's not exactly like a cat And then I'm go wait wait wait wait and then I go go and I go fight and it's like a bouncy Castle around there. So at least it's not a hard floor. We okay tomorrow. We're gonna find the video for our watchers Have you ever tried to ride with those things? No, I have never tried one me neither. So some people got up like 40 seconds 50 seconds. No, yeah But and your backs okay, everything's okay people were bruised all over the place

But a lot of people, you know, not quite the one and a half seconds I did did a little bit better But yeah, I go down I go down with the thud and fortuitously Christiane did not tape me going up a second time I think I would have been hopefully but it was like Mount Everest I needed a Sherpa to get me up there the second time before I fell again What a good husband you are. I'm a good husband is right. I'm a good sport and I said, you know what? Go ahead. I said to the guys at NHL Network. Let's put it out. Let's have some fun with it So I will never see you in a Yellowstone episode

That's what you're telling us. Maybe maybe it was a Yellowstone Park Jellystone Park or whatever Yogi bears that that's about it. Yeah, I try glad we're glad you're healthy enough to come back And do this rest of the week with us Gord Yeah All right Our thanks to head coach Craig Ruby in the first hour and Jimmy Ralph. And of course, Jason Buchla in studio. If you get a chance, give us a rating and review. We'd love to hear from you. And we're back again tomorrow on off the rails Friday, Doug

McLean. He's got a mechanical bull story. I think he's got a story about everything. Are they all true? Have a great night everybody.