Real Kyper & Bourne - Trade Risks and USA Without Hughes

Episode Date: February 10, 2025

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne are joined by Jason Bukala (5:28) of Pro Hockey Group and Sportsnet to discuss his overall expectations for the NHL's mid-season break for the inaugural 4 Nations Face-Off, Team Canada's goaltenders, Drew Doughty returning from an injury and into the tournament and how the games will prepare Seth Jarvis for the upcoming Olympics. Then, he gets into trade risks for the Buffalo Sabres and Dylan Cozens, how scouts are used ahead of the trade deadline, and the number of assets a team needs to make a deal. Then, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee chat about Quinn Hughes not participating for Team USA, the American's line pairings, Sidney Crosby's participation, and whether Brad Marchand's performance impacts his future free agency.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's kick it up a notch here. We go national on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. This Hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet365, Nick Kiprel, Justin Bourne, Simon McKee. In a couple of minutes, we'll welcome in Jason Buchlaula Pro Hockey Group Sportsnet, NHL scout, former. A lot to get into with him including trade, potential trade targets. Also Team Canada, what his thoughts are for nations in general. Imagine if he was just like I don't think they're very good.

What do you think his scout be like those lines good? They'll be fine could you have messed it up they'll be fine but as we go Off yesterday, let's hope that That energy off the Super Bowl will follow us right to forward nations. What was the energy? will follow us right to four nations. What was the energy? You got a bad. It's the business who you're rooting for, I think. Eagles energy.

Yeah, that'll take. What happened, Sammy? Like, you were like, don't bet against, don't bet against, don't bet. Yeah, you should have bet against. I will say though, I did give out the Jalen Hurts first touchdown score on Friday. So I even mentioned the tush push.

So they did the tush push to get the first score. I think that's considering the stakes and considering how great we all think Patrick Mahomes is, you know, that sets up to be one of the most stunning sort of not even results, just the way it looked like just from the start of the game, he couldn't do anything. They were never in it. It was not one compelling moment. First play, they were never in it. Yeah, there's the overturn, there's offensive pass interference gets called early and it's like, oh, the refs are going to try to make this interesting.

And then the Eagles made every play start to finish. You're okay them losing, but not that way. I mean, I give the commentators some credit. They're trying to drum up stakes, and it's like, buddy, it's over. It must been really incredible for Tom Brady to be calling this game, because he is, of course, the GOAT of football,

one of the best athletes in pro sports history in terms of accomplishments, like number one top up there. And everybody's been kind of been like, you know, Mahomes, if he gets this one, he's starting it and now you that really pushes back the conversation Beat my home and he beat my homes. It's like every time my homes and it's already Brady's president at the Super Bowl He's calling it. He's playing in it. My homes loses. So I Really? I gotta tell you I'm thrilled. They lost like seeing sad Kelsey. They didn't show Taylor Swift at all

Patrick my homes. He really needed a little piece of humble pie. I really enjoyed that aspect of it, but I just wish it was a closer game. It just sucked. And the halftime show was a little bit underwhelming. Just not the best product from start to finish. Food at my Super Bowl party though. Shout out Johnny Boy.

Unbelievable, unbelievable. Well, there's that. It was amazing. The Peronies were ice cold boys. That's all I got to say. And other than that,rs. Lincoln how was the play yeah that whole thing yeah yeah that halftime show like not for me not literally not for you yes it was okay all right yeah you know it that's okay

you're more probably the target they were looking for generic white dude from cologne I grew up listening to a lot of hip-hop it's always been kind of my thing yeah he's awesome but yeah no I get that it wasn't like not everyone's cup of tea I listen I did rewatch it afterwards when I got home and my wife wanted to watch it again So we watched it again better on the second viewing I heard bunk is talking about it a little bit there on his show that the Sort of the overall feeling of the game kind of painted the feeling of the halftime show which I agree with But you know, I think you're right.

I think it just wasn't for you. You know, it just wasn't Bruce Springsteen or, you know, well that's what you would have, because you saw you dance at a Bruce Springsteen concert, so that's what you would have liked. It was like 10 years ago, I think. He did play a super, yeah. 2010, nine maybe.

Kendrick Lamar's pants were awful. That's like the worst pants. You liked them. Well you wore your flares today, brother. Good boot cut flare That's like the worst. You like them. Well, you keep where is your flares today brother? Not great pants like but anyways tough day for Drake. All right, Sammy Right into a team Canada had their first practice today The lines are official now Everything we kind of mentioned I think and the last week we anticipated Reinhardt McDavid and Marner

Got to tell you I don't know how you feel I don't know I know you don't really care either. Whoa, either of you guys don't care about international competition Like you've said to me all these years. What anyways, where's that coming from? Oh, you guys have made fun of me for caring about team Canada this whole show the whole time We've done this show. Is that accurate? Yes No, maybe it was a turtle race between a Canadian turtle and a US we made fun of you at watching. You always made fun of me because I like the world championships. I like every Team Canada thing. No, I'll make fun of you when you like events that are not the best players and the best players. It's

just an arbitrary thing when it's the Spangler Cup. That's what I said. It's a turtle race. Anyways, seeing these lines, seeing these guys on the ice together, seeing my favorite coach, John Cooper, talk about the stuff and just having this be laid out in front of you, I truly cannot wait for Wednesday. Buddy, watching the videos today where like McKinnon and McDavid

are talking about something, McCarr slides over and Crosby wheels in to join the chat and she's like, what are they talking about? I want that access, it's so cool. Really incredible. All right. Let's see if our next guest feels as strongly as our Sammy McKee as we welcome in Jason

Buchla Pro Hockey Groups, Sportsnet, Pacpedia, former NHL scout. Like in the shirt today, pal. Buddy, I wore it just for you guys, you know, specifically Borny because Borny knows I've been on a weekend Super Bowl extravaganza here. So I thought I'd just throw this, this beauty on for a couple of minutes here. You know, this is one more carbonated beverage after the weekend. They have a bubbly shirt there. I like it. How was your Super Bowl experience? Super Bowl was fantastic. The game stunk. It was such a let down. we were surrounded by Kansas

City fans that it's a you know you think that the Canadian hockey fans are passionate then you get around an NFL fan who's gone on a vacation for something like this and I'll tell you I had to take their shoelaces out of their shoes before I let them go back to the hotel last night it was it was pretty down downtrodden downtrodden for sure He's at it. You're game. Yeah So when did you you went obviously no one told me you went no no no I came down to I'm in Mexico for the weekend with buddies from back home, so that's a little little getaway little little little four-day

So can you could have said no, buddy? little four day. That's right. Soaking in the sunshine. You could have said no buddy. Sammy, you're in the wrong job, Sammy. You gotta be a scout. So maybe 10 days from now, two weeks from now, will we be reading a cover of Sports Illustrated?

What's wrong with the NFL Super Bowl and what's great about NHL in four seasons? Is that coming up? Or four nations? Four nations. Oops. What do we expect out of it? Oh, I think it's got, it's going to be really entertaining. It's going to just take a little

bit to get going. That's all I, I, you know, I think that some people aren't really sure what to expect. The, what the European team specifically fell is we've talked about this before and they, they're used to these international breaks. They take a lot of pride in these tournaments that they play in November and February, and certainly the guys who are in the National Hockey League who don't have that chance to obviously go back home and play in those European tournaments, they're going to be pumped for this.

And I think we all should be on balance and that we should all be excited. Anytime that you can get the majority of the best hockey players in the world. And I say the majority, obviously, it's not totally best on best because of some countries not being involved in an event like this, but still pretty good. And I think it's good for the game. The more exposure, the more excitement. And but it might take a little bit to get warmed up here. Well, just looking at the names, how big the names are, the star potential on Team Canada

alone will focus them to start. Like, how can it not be great to watch? How can it? Their intensity, you know, these guys led by Sid and Connor McDavid, the intensities, they only know a certain way to play. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the puck is gonna be ping ponging around like it's one of those rubber balls

that bounce all over the place. So it's gonna be fast action and the goal tenders and the defensemen, I'm really curious to see how all these defensemen, the NHL is a great league. It's the best league in the world. It's a track meet. There's all kinds of skill at any given night,

but let's be honest, there's some holes in lineups where you can kind of take your foot off the gas a little bit. You get a little bit of a break. This is just going to be high octane all the time. And these guys are going to be under duress defensively. And Canada is going to have to run and gun to potentially outscore some of the holes in their lineup, I would suggest, but I can't wait to see the power play. That's just going to be fun in itself.

You had to be a tough call for Cooper. Looks like they get Reinhardt in the bumper. It could have been point. You've seen the success he's had with Tampa there. So that'll be fun to see. You know, you, I would love to get your thoughts on, on the thing that we're kind of all not talking about, because it's fun to see the lines, you wrote about the goalies. How's Canada's stack up? Is it gonna bury us? Oh, I can't say that. I'm not gonna go that far.

There has been time. I had to take a break writing the article, I gotta be honest, because I was getting to the point where I'm thinking, oh wow, this is a problem. The reality is what it is. That's just where we are in our goaltending cycle right now. Bennington's won a cup.

He knows how to get hot at the right time. And and he's been in those high leverage situations. Obviously, when you when you stack up against look at the U.S. Hellebuck, Ottinger, look at Sweden, you know, even with Gustafsson and then Allmark. And then you get down to Finland with with Saros. So, yeah, we're in a we're in a tough spot that way. But these are pros. these are NHL players. They're not bad goaltenders by any stretch.

I'm concerned. I'm Aiden Hill in his last 10 games, or six games that I kind of broke him down because I'm like you guys, right? Who's going to be the starter? I think it's going to be Bennington, but does this guy deserve it or is that? And in the last six games, Aiden Hill's allowed four goals or three or more and four of his last six starts, so

I think it's Bennington, but we'll see how that goes in his last ten guys if you want to go over a segment It's like close to 3.0 and eight seventy nine or something like that. So Yikes the tough tough right? It's different. I'll put it to you that way. You're watching and listening to Jason Buchla, Pro Hockey Group, Sportsnet, former NHL scout. So in your scouting days, when you've had a player with a prolonged period of time where they've been off for a significant injury, whether you're thinking about trading one or getting one back into your lineup. What's the general feel on how quickly a guy can get back up to speed because I'm looking

at Drew Doughty coming back barely a week and now going to play in this high octane tournament? Yeah, really tough. I would suggest that a goaltender or defenseman is exponentially more difficult than a forward. You can kind of, especially if you're a winger, you can kind of hide in different quadrants of the ice surface and let your hockey IQ adjust. Well, you know, however you're going to play the game, but you don't have to track the same way and you definitely have to stop the puck the same way. So it's going to be tough for him, I think. I personally, I understand the sentiment. Obviously, he's a hockey Canada guy forever and I want to, he's a future hall of famer, all these types of things.

But that's the sentimental point of it. I'm curious, you know, if this was the Olympics, I'm curious if it would have went a different way. Like I'm curious if it would have been, you know, the other guys that were in the mix, like a wiger, for example, or, you know, we could go down a list with a few other guys. But I'm curious about that I think that being the four nations it is what it is but it's gonna be hard on them no doubt about that. Bookes when you look at Canada's roster how do you feel two months removed

from when the decisions were made or there a couple of omissions really glaring that they kind of want do-overs on? I don't know you know the goaltending for sure like Logan Thompson I don't know I don't know what happened in the process of selecting goaltenders I'm sure they gathered a lot of information behind the scenes you know GMs talk to GMs etc etc but obviously as Logan Thompson's continued to play at the level he's played at that stands out. It's just, it's like a sore thumb right there.

So that's the one. On balance up front, you know, Marshawn's now in conversations, you know, Kipper's got him on the trade board and there's different conversations there. I thought that he was pretty pedestrian in the buildup recently. And you know, arguments could be made for guys like Shagfleet, right? Who's been really good. But let's be honest, every roster that you build for these types of events, there's always going to be that type of discussion no matter what.

And maybe they build a team different for the Olympics next year. And it's a Mike Babcock type of scenario where you want to win a game 2-1. I don't know. It depends on who's coaching it or probably who the management team is, how they all decide on these things. So debatable, but still pretty loaded roster guys. And there's other guys that deserve to be there, and that's good news.

Bookes, one of the guys that people question, well, just because he's not the biggest name, is Seth Jarvis. I saw a quote today from Jarvis. He's sitting between Sid and McDavid in the dressing room, and he says, best seat in the house. And all I can think of is like, is that management being like,

we want this guy to be ready for the Olympics. We gotta, you know, give him the best opportunity to learn, or is that just pure coincidence that's his seat? No, I think that that's absolutely calculated. And I think that a guy like that, when he gets named to a roster like this, depending on what his role is, even if he plays, did you see his quote, I think last week guy like that when he gets named to a roster like this depending on what his role is even if he plays did you see his quote I think last week or he said if they want me to play right D I'll play right I

know I love that box I'll stop box I mean that is all joking is sorry that is set dark it's going all the way back to his junior days this kid this kid is super competitive excellent skill and obviously you see the players in Carolina that's a calculated move for sure because you want to groom the next generation of guys and get them involved in the process. And that's part of it. I know how you feel. Like right now, if someone said you can go to Mexico, I'd wear that shirt you're wearing. You know, Or, or yeah. If I'm a player, yeah, no, I definitely be suiting up for my nation. I'd

wait for, and the shmillions that I'd be be making I'd have more than one of these shirts in the closet Okay mentioned trade boards and names out there and Most intriguing for you out of all of them Could it be a cousins in Buffalo Because this one is still on its upside. Yeah, he's got the locked in contract at 7.1, I believe, but still not sure what you're potentially getting

or if you're Buffalo potentially trading away. And I've kind of compared him to maybe a similar situation that Buffalo was in with Sam Reinhart where you thought you might be trading something and he turns into something much different here could that be the same for cousins yeah if you're sitting in Buffalo's war room absolutely that's the biggest fear if these discussions and clearly these discussions are going on because this noise has been percolating for a couple of months it seems now. So the number, there's so many ways that we got to divide up the pie here. And so if you start from Buffalo's perspective, absolutely, it's one of those

fear factors that he's going to pop when he goes somewhere else. Listen, this kid had a great year two years ago, and it was not really a springboard yet to continue numbers that reflect what he did a couple years ago to earn that contract but neither has the structure in Buffalo been exactly consistent so there's a lot of moving parts there if you get in a room that's more organized or more consistent more mature for sure that knows how to win more not even just in the regular season i mean hopefully in the playoffs playoffs, that's the goal. He's probably going to pop off. And so what I, on the other end, if I'm acquiring the player and I'm worried that he's not going to do that, I have to think about what's the worst case scenario going to be for him. I still think that worst case scenario is going to be between 20 and 25.

Worst case scenario is going to be he plays in the three and he's a two and a half. I think he's a top six. I think that's a top six. I think that he's going to move the needle that much going forward. The number, especially with the cap going up, is going to be super attractive, no doubt about that. One thing to be aware of here, little guys, is that there's so many teams that I hear that potentially want these types of players, the middle guys, right? The Lottins, the Cousins, maybe the Shens in St. Louis. In Buffalo specifically, if you're the team

that's trading for Dylan Cousins, and you think that the Buffalo Sabres are gonna retain any money there, they don't have a history of that necessarily. And next year and the year after, take a minute to look at how much they're paying Jeff Skinner not to be there. So the owner who's gonna pay him, I think,

six next, 6.5 next year, 4. something maybe the year after, the owner who's going to pay him I think six next six point five next year four point something maybe the year after the owner is not going to have any appetite to retain salary in a deal like this let alone maybe even sign off on the deal because of what he's seen in the Reinhardt's to your example Kipper but that's at the top of the wish list young player you got the control of him he's affordable if he plays three quarters of what he did two years ago and and I'd obviously if I had the assets I'd go after him for sure. Okay, perfect segue into this question I think he I believe he's been linked to Toronto Calgary in Vancouver. So who has the best assets right now to satisfy Buffalo for you out of those three teams. I just mentioned

Probably well two different Toronto does not so we might as well just start with that. We'll put them in the three of all because a lot of moving parts there. Minton and Easton Cowan can't get it done like other teams can for Toronto? Yeah, I can, absolutely. So that's curious that you position it that way. Can I take a second to address that if you want?

Go, go. So when the cap is going everybody, my perspective on team building with the Toronto Maple Leafs is fluid right now. And the reason is this, that I've been Debbie Downer on the draft capital and the assets coming through the system, right? But if you look at 2025, 2026, and their coverage are relatively bare for draft capital, look where the cap is going in the next two years, guys. So what you can do is wait out to 2027, start spending that extra cap money that is obviously going up a lot, right? And they're in a position to do that.

So that changes things. So when I come back to your ask, Dipper, on Minton and Cowan, if I really truly believe that I'm all in, yeah, that gets it going. But where's the money in the land? That's the problem. You're going to have to move out money as well. So, you know, Camp will probably have to be involved in there. I'm fine with that. No biggie. But what are we 2.2? And then, you know, how am I going to get to seven, I guess is my question. I'm okay with the assets if we're all in because I do believe

things are going to plane out in the future. If that makes sense to you guys, just because they're going to have the flexibility to spend money and some teams won't. But going out West, Vancouver and Calgary, both have a lot more flexibility. Calgary's got the most flex cap wise, obviously. But they both have better assets. Calgary's got some guys coming through the miner system right now that they've drafted recently. You know, Matt Figradin playing in the Quebec League, Basia playing for Medicine Hat, obviously Cat Money. In Vancouver, you know, they, I'm not so sure,

like, do they include a La Caramacchi in something like that because he can play the wing in the middle? Do you go to the Tom Willander kid who's playing at BU? I don't think it's a fact that Buffalo would surely be targeting. And they've got those types of players. who's playing at BU, I don't think it's a pass that Buffalo would surely be targeting. And they've got those types of players. But if you're throwing Minton and Cowan into the mix, that I just compared all that to, I'm okay with that. I'm still not sure where the money goes or how that figures itself out. But my flexibility radar in terms of how Toronto could build things here in the next couple of years, because the caps going up so much,

has changed a bit. So, Bucs, maybe you can fill our listeners in on how the pro scouting process works. Because we're talking here, we talked about Braden Shen in the first hour, and we're like, where's his game at? Here's his stats, but how often do you get to really analyze his game? Dylan Cousins is a name obviously coming up. So you were involved with the Floral Panthers in a big way in their scouting operation. What would it look like?

How would these decisions get made when you have to evaluate guys who are currently in the NHL? Okay, so you walk into the meeting and let's just say there's a group of, it doesn't matter how many, we've done a lot of homework before we get there because we don't wanna waste any time. So your general manager says,

okay, let's make up our A list. What's our A wish list? And if you go cousins, lot and shed, let's just use that as an example, okay? And then your next column is salary and how many years and term, of course it includes age. No trade clauses, yada yada. Now you start looking at,

okay, how do we value our internal scenario, prospect wise, draft capital wise, in relation to where we want to spend money? And how does it affect our offseason if we want to take on a guy with term? So if you're going to take on a guy with term like like cousins, what's the trickle down effect to the nice scenario? The Tavara scenario, the martyr scenario, all these things you have to factor it all in. And it's like you're piecing together a puzzle. The thing of it here that really, if you're the Toronto Maple Leafs and if I'm in their warm room, that you have to be very aware of is that you're accruing cap dollars on a daily basis right now, but they're chasing it guys.

Other teams have more cap space today than the Toronto Maple Leafs do. Their cap space will look a lot different. If the roster stays the same as it is today come trade deadline, it'll be up around, I don't know, you probably have the number in front of you, three five, I'll just throw it out there. It's in that vicinity, okay? But the thing is that all these other teams,

and this is where you have to be super aggressive, these other teams, they don't need to accrue time. So when you're starting to get aggressive because those other teams have got more cap right now, they don't need to wait to trade deadline. So you really have to either have a deal in the drawer that makes sense overspend potentially with the prospect or a future asset call it a first round or 2026 that you might not want to give up. You have to be prepared to do that earlier when you're chasing money trying to get to the

trade deadline to have max dollars. I know that's a mouthful, there's a lot of moving parts there, but you start at Cousins, then you go to the Lottons of the world, the guys that are making three, and then you know I'm not so sure they don't need a defenseman here too, so that's got to be part of the equation. You know if you're gonna target a Mario Farrarro for example and a Scott Lotton or you know somebody else in the league, are we better with two of these guys than we are with Dylan Cousins like you have to ask yourself the question do these two guys make us a better team at the same dollar value compared to this

and does that mean we can move Minton in this deal, Cowan in that deal, a couple draft picks here a couple draft picks there and in a change is the landscape that way so I have to be clear about something here. I'm leaning that way. I kind of feel like they need another defenseman. I'm not so sure I want to go all in on cousins. I'd love to have the asset, trust me, but I'm not so sure that for a playoff course this year, they're not, like Colton Sissons, nobody,

I don't think very many people talk about Colton Sissons, but he's coming off a year last year. I think he had 15 and 30 last year. The Preds are a tire fire this year, we know that. But listen, he kills penalties. He's like 57% in the faceoff. He's not gonna be as heavy, hard as Shen or Lawton, but he's 2.2.

And then you get Ferraro at 3.3 with term. You see how I'm kind of trying to plane this out here a little bit, so I don't know, we'll see. Adding to the complexity of a scout would be like When one week you're in it one week you're out of it. Like I'm looking at the islanders. I'm looking at You know not Montreal, but Ottawa obviously is in a position to really go for it here still But like how does that affect how you prepare?

And I don't know, are you just walking to a meeting at trade deadline and you're prepared for being a buyer and a seller at the same time? Yeah, you better not. You better be way prepared, like now, beginning of February, you better be prepared. It's gonna be upper management, capologists, general manager, assistant GMs.

You've already provided them as much information as you can. There's a whole book of resources for them to reference so they don't have to reach out to every guy on my staff by that time. They have the flexibility to go either way, I guess is what I'm trying to tell you, Kipper. We've done our job at this point. We've given them all the information

and now they got to fit it together. And there will be a call, you know, like Al Tour, our director pro in in Florida back there and Pronger and McCabe and Lou these guys will get a phone call and it's in you know be whatever it is maybe I'd be on the call and and we'd we but we wouldn't get everybody back together we would all the work would have been done because if you get caught with your pants down on March 9th and you got an hour and a half to figure it out,

let me tell you, you talk about stress, it's brutal. Yeah. Last one for me, I already said last one, I know. Can Finland or Sweden win the Four Nations? Yeah, I never roll out the Finns. The pesky Finns always find a way to be a thorn in everybody's side. The Swedes, absolutely they could.

Depending on the goaltending. Gustafsson, maybe he's the guy But likelihood of it not really that American team fellas. That's a juggernaut. He's damn good Yeah, we're looking forward to it. No holes. There's no holes. It's a hell of a team Wow Books always a pleasure man. Enjoy the rest of your little cruise You know you ever gonna come back or you to wait for an expansion team in Mexico? I'm on my way back tomorrow morning. I hear the weather is going to be brutal. So with any luck, I'll get stormstay for a day or two and I'll catch up with you guys later.

That's what I do. Soak it in. Right back to the beach, buddy. Thanks for doing this. All right, boys. See you soon. Thank you. Thanks, Boots. I love talking to him. What a guy. Yeah, it's like you said, you know me when I'm in Cabo. Uh, yeah, listen, the shirt things drying up like, you know, anyways, it's nice of him to come on. He was great stuff. But the sun's still out there. He's getting he's missing out on prime tanning time. I mean, 20 minutes at 2 p.m., I guess.

He's doing pretty good. Yeah, he's great. All right, what do you got for us? I just, you know, he mentioned the American team there, and I don't know, do you guys have it in front of you? Not underwhelming, I would never say that it's underwhelming because they have a lot of good players on that team. Well, let's just start now with the decision by Quinn Hughes

because everybody sat on it. Massive. Right? Sat on it for a week and a half and it's clear when you're talking about great players, powerful guys in our game now with the voice and not only their level of play but their voice, right? And it's like, hey, what do you think? You decide, which is kind of interesting for me still. But it was clearly his call. Vancouver left it for him and you should get a little bit of some credit here for looking at the big picture.

And it wasn't an easy decision for him to say I'm not participating. I mean, he must just not be able to more or less, but I will say it does change the four nations face off. Like Quinn Hughes was game changer, heart trophy candidate this year. He's probably the US's best player. And while Jake Sanderson has really come on for the Ottawa Senators and his style of play he can carry the mail, but not to the extent that we've seen. It's not disrespectful to say Jake Sanderson isn't Quinn Hughes.

I would understand the stylistic fit in terms of replacing him with Jake Sanderson in terms of an offensive guy who can walk the line. But I mean, Quinn Hughes could win MVP this year. It's hard to replace that kind of guy. And on Sportsnet's website, you know, Ian McIntyre, the headline of his article is Quinn Hughes putting Canucks first with decision to pull out of four nations. I think if you're a Canucks fan, you're obviously really happy because you're a Canadian, most likely.

So you're like, well, they have a better chance to to win but that does make you feel great if you're he's the captain of your team he's clearly banged up he's missed how many games in a row doesn't play on Saturday night against the Leafs for him to make that decision is a pretty mature one you don't think like you don't think there's any use it to just no way he can go I think if he could he probably would push through this pretty important the American team hasn't had the type of moments that Canadians have had. I think this matters a lot to them and you know, he's probably not going to. The other thing too is he's got an injury that if he messes with that could kill the

season. Yeah. And that's just, that's just not a reason enough to take a chance. No, it's I'm looking for the American roster here. They're looking for their lines. I don't know if you have it somewhere Sam, but the the lines are interesting. You have it in front of you. I don't.

Okay. It's Gensel Matthews Jack Hughes, which I tweeted today. It kind of reminds me of the Leafs doing the Tavares Marner Nealander things like I don't think there's anyone there who's gonna go get the puck like I love all the players but don't you want to throw Brady Kachuk on that line or someone go to the front of the net go get pucks for him? Here it is. Alright Sal, Kyle Connor, Jack Matthew Kachuk is the top line. Connor, Ike Kachuk. Yeah. Second line is Gensel Matthews Jack Hughes.

Third line Matt Boldy JT Miller Brady Kachuk. Dog. Throw those guys out there against Hagel Sorelli Bennett please and watch a explosion on hockey on the ice. And then the fourth line here is Brock Nelson Vincent Trotschek Dylan Larkin as your fourth line. Prider. Yeah, they're D pairing Slaven Fox Warenki McAvoy Hanifin Brock Faber. So good.

I am I am curious. If Austin Matthews who is just as pure of a shooter as we've seen in the game's history become more of a playmaker in this series, in this type of series. He's not a playmaker, oh my God! No but he can be, he can be. Okay. I don't know.

Steph Curry can dunk but you don't want him going to the rim all the time? No, no, no, that's just horrible, horrible. I want to see if plays last longer than one in duns that we've seen when he shoots the puck, that's all I to that's to me I want a Ferrari to be a pickup truck. He isn't a pickup truck. That's all so who's Gensel is gonna just feed him all night, but nobody Gensel's not really I don't think someone else on that line would be a better fit, but oh, yeah, Gensel Hughes Yes, I don't I don't I don't I just look at this and I think they're really good I do but I think Hannah's better. Yeah, I think the fourth line and particularly once you take Hughes out of the equation

Yeah, feels like there's there's an edge there for Canada. They were doing okay Goaltending probably edge to America. It's a large one Probably say edge to the states there on that one. I'm a little seen in hell about games Oh, there any games at all for game time? I got some stuff for game time. You do? I do. It's game time presented by bet365.

Visit the app, Play the Stods, and find out why it's never ordinary at bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only, please play responsibly. So there's some future stuff for the Four Nations, which I found very interesting. As I quickly lose it on my screen here, I got it back. So to win outright, the Canadians, as you would imagine,

are favorites. They're plus 140 to win the tournament. States second at plus 150. So about 365, thinking it's gonna be pretty close. Sweden, tons of value there for me at plus 425. And Finland is a long, long shot at plus 850. They're not giving the Finns much of a chance in this. Looking at this to me is very interesting.

Top point scorer in the tournament, Connor McDavid is plus 650 to be the highest scoring player in this tournament. To me, I think that's great value. I think he's going to be playing in how many games they have right? They play the four yeah Like and the final that to me is a great bet at plus 650 the second favorite is Nathan McKinnon at plus 800 And Austin Matthews Matthews is the third favorite at plus 1500 that it goes down to bark off which I find interesting so no heavy favorite

I use Jack Hughes is the next one after Barkov at plus two at plus two thousand. So you're under some value there Yeah, well, this is the Americans win but if Austin's gonna be up there it's gonna be Jack Hughes getting him the puck and The let the top goal scorer So just straight goals the favorite you would imagine is awesome Matthews Braden point second favorite plus The favorite you would imagine is awesome Matthews Braden point second favorite plus 10 to 1 Connor McDavid 10 to 1 Reinhardt 10 to 1 Jack Hughes 12 the one point Yeah, and Nathan McKinnon 15 to 1 so some good value there I guess they figured the line he's on and you know

Maybe he's gonna be doing some more finishing, but he is currently on the third line of team, Canada That is a prediction of mine for Braden point If you really want to go Kyle Connor not a bad bet either at 25 to 1 anyways That was game time presented by bet 365 visit the app flit its odds and find out why it's never ordinary at bet 365 must be 19 plus on terror only please play responsibly And no mention and no mention of Sid Crosby in all of that no And no mention and no mention of Sid Crosby in all of that no I mean, yeah That means we'll have a discussion with Sid and what we can expect out of Sid and how quickly could Sid

Be a an X Factor coming off an injury plus some Cooper clips Do we talked we got John Cooper and in our first hour? We talked about McCarr not giving up the number eight for Drew Dowdy. I'll tell you why. Oh, you already know? That's the number one reason why that never happened after the break.

All right. You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Borne. Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk, the hockey PDO cast with Dmitri Filipovic. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts Welcome back into the real kipper and born show as a reminder this hour of real kipper and born brought to you by bet three six five City Crosby what you make me laugh like literally sit here just you know, I amuse you what I'm funny Yeah, well just maybe laugh peshy now. I'm gonna get your shine box. Uh-huh

No tough crowd here Anyways, you're just like right before we go to break. We sat here said nothing other than bullcrap. What are we gonna talk about? Then you you just broke An ownership story. Yeah, a rods now the owner of the Minnesota Timberwolves. He ruined he won over Over some other guy Glenn Taylor feels like you if I'm a fan of a team a rod as my owner is not the most enticing endeavor nothing Stability is not there maybe? I don't know.

Don't love that. No. Turn it into a circus? A celebrity circus? There's just few athletes I've ever hated as much as Alex Rodriguez. Alex Rodriguez is on my Mount Rush Morvos hated athletes. Yankee, just not my fave, not my fave.

You're always weary of that athlete who's you just know In the heyday of his career. He's just a dick. Yeah, and all the spies that right and then at the end they become personable or media-friendly and it's like Like anywhere else, you know, can you not see right through it? He played for the Yankees I don't think he would have chosen the Minnesota Timberwolves Minnesota was not it He wanted a piece of a franchise and that was one he could get his hands on. Yeah I don't feel like he's like finally I can relocate to Minneapolis

One of the most detestable things ever was in that famous comeback They had and Bronson Arroyo goes to cover first base. He just slaps the ball out of his gloves like oh my god I've never hated an athlete more he's the worst. Speaking of a guy that's as consistent as ever from the moment he put on skates, Sid. And a lot of people feeling like he saved himself a couple of games last week for Team Canada. Well, it helps both his teams. The Penguins need to lose. Sid wants to play for Canada. If he didn't play, he rested up for Canada. Made perfect sense. So yeah, he's been a... The biggest shame of his career is that there hasn't been anything for eight years that he could be a part of. obviously from the Golden Goal and

Just great play in a Canada sweater for years It's like long overdue to see again when you look at the what's potentially the future of the Pittsburgh Penguins like between Four nations and the Olympics like this is it. This is this is the only oh, yeah juice He's gonna get out of the next few years and like I hate hate hate the thing I'm about to say but I hope he's in the Olympics. I Hope he's good. Oh in a year. Oh, he'll be there. Oh In 12 months, he's like it you're not Even if he goes down five percent. Yeah, you have't have a limb to not be there but like he's close Close for me. Yeah, I'm sure you think he can drop that much where it's debatable whether he's gonna be a part of the Olympics

Next year. I mean he's 58 points in 55 Games this year if he's 48 points in 55 games next year, playing with plumbers, there'll be a ton of really good Canadians who are above him. He's a million tiebreakers. If he's the 50th best Canadian forward, we'll take him. So yeah, I think he'll be there.

I am very confident. Oh, you've patted the seat, my friend. Marchand's the other story. Marchand is the one where it's like he's the pedigree team Canada guy that everybody think if he was not our shand targeted If you think he was not targeted as a face of the team Months ago, I don't know when they officially came out the original six guys And you mean yes. Yeah. No, I don't think you'd be there. You don't think he'd be on this team right now Shifely is unbelievable this unbelievable

think he'd be on this team right now? Shifely is unbelievable this year. Unbelievable. Zach Hyman had a month and a half of a low shooting percentage. Tom Wilson came up large. Yes. Macklin Celebrini's fill in the net still looks unbelievable. Yeah. No, I think the rad benefited.

And again, maybe in the top 25 Canadian forwards and a great player and a good Canadian and all that. In the first hour, you kind of mentioned Marner, if he doesn't have the camp that, how that would affect moving forward. So Marchand, if he doesn't have a good four nations, how does that affect the Boston Bruins moving forward on signing him? If they decide to sign him and not trade him, what kind of contract do you think he's showing in this tournament will have some I think if he could show that he

could dominate or keep up or dominate or keep up or two. Yeah, one of them. Some like you know what I'm saying though, like playing with point and Jarvis on this probably connected if he can show that he could be in and Still a dominating kind of left winger in this it does change the way I think the Boston Bruins may feel about signing him or giving them an extra year on a contract I should think such a small sample such a weird event to place any sort of contract you can tell but Regardless you can tell who can keep up. You'll see him against the best. You'll see him against the best. They're skating 1,000 miles an hour.

Who can keep up? Who's making plays? Who's thinking quickly? Who's making right decisions out there? See, for me, Marchand's the guy that I think the Boston Bruins are going, what are we gonna do with him? Sign him?

Is he one of those just, those legends, Boston Bruin legends where we just can't envision him traded or moved away? Like he's a captain? Does he need to retire here? Like is he in the same, not the same conversation as Sid, but like a smaller conversation similar to the Sid one with Pittsburgh, where it's like,

you never wanna see him playing in another uniform are you Gonna give him three years on is a better example We'll use Bergeron as an example, but like are they gonna get what's he gonna ask from the open market? You know people you probably get seven or eight on the open market for somebody get Marchand. Oh my god, please Please god well, but there's just no conceivable way No, probably would retire if he was traded to the Leafs Thanks, but the one thing I do think is if the relationship Sours the only thing that stands out to me is he's really competitive guys.

Like remember Brett Favre was like I'm going to play with the Vikings. Really good at the Vikings. He was just like to hell with Green Bay. They don't want me. That's your only chance as a Leaf fan that he's so mad at Boston. And you got to remember too Your only chance is a leaf fan that he's so mad at Boston and you gotta remember to in his best years with the Bruins They all managed to get these guys locked in under value. They

Six and a half is a good salary, but it's not he's worried and it's not eight. It's not nine and it's not ten He got hard trophy votes for years. So Now you're like what kind of deal does he want moving forward? I think on an open market he could look at a Stamp Coast contract out of Nashville. Definitely. I mean everybody, everybody goes crazy on the agency day. But will Boston give him 8 times 3? I don't know. This comes back to the conversation we just had. If they care enough about him being the all-time legend and staying there for a

long time, then probably. But if they don't, no. He's been making 6.5 and he had Hart Trophy votes in five straight seasons. Underpaid his whole career. That contract. He's gonna want to... Someone's gonna have to buck up a little bit here and inst still what he may consider prime years for him. He's so competitive though, like you can't see him going to a bad team for more money. That's exactly what I was gonna say. What's the team that's like not close to the cap?

That's like a contender. Do the ducks wanna like, you know, around their young guys? Or like, you know, Kallor never made any money. Yeah, but he was Colorado. All day long, guys. Yeah, or like, you know, we never made any money. Yeah, but he was Auto made sense all day long Colorado. Yeah, can he fill in ranting in for a year or two? And that's a good fit Oilers do they don't have any but he's also gonna be half the value Yeah for a quarter You're talking about one of the better left-wingers so far in the league now where you think he stands today I'm telling you a good week and a half here. We go a long way

I think the stamp goes things a cautionary tale for this where everybody still thought he was I mean Sam goes had a good Year last year he didn't he score 40 goals last year like Then you go to a different situation worse team away from some good players And you're out of it where you're comfortable with and it goes badly. It feels like it's a cautionary tale. Yeah, it does. But you teased for the break the number thing. Yeah. What was the number? Oh, right. Right. Keeping number eight. Drew Doughty wearing 89. Just strictly merchandising thing. You know how many print thousands of McCar number eight jerseys they're gonna have for sale in the next?

Like they're already made? They're made. They're in shops. They're hanging up on walls right now. You can't go and change his number right now. Yeah, so if you missed it in the first hour, we talked about this and basically said, you gotta give Drew Doughty, future Hall of Famer,

Norris Trophy winner, Stanley Cup winner, you gotta say, dowdy number hall of famer norris trophy winner Stanley cup winner You gotta say here you go, sir number eight, but but they're already made and there are no what? Thousands of them and uh, yep Yeah, and I'm sure dowdy doesn't care. He's a hockey player. He's not a 89 on dowdy though. It's like why 89 here is born Hey, do you guys want to hear pretty simple you guys want to hear money? money That's what he said. He still doesn't like it. Hey, do you guys want to hear? Pretty simple. You guys want to hear? Money. Money! Yeah, that's always the answer. How about a John Cooper clip on his starting goal-tending for the Four Nations face-off?

He's a guy, I hate it. Just let's just, you have that clip for me, Derek. Let's just play clip four on his starting. Would you care to share your starting goalie for Wednesday evening with us? I'll share that with you tomorrow. Oh, okay. I gotta tell them first. You're starting goalie for Wednesday evening with us? I'll share that with you tomorrow. Oh, OK. I've got to tell them first. Maybe just in general, what's your thinking

on the goaltending? Is it a rotation? Is it like what's it look like to you? Or how do you imagine it playing out? I think this is too short a tournament to make that call. It's not like world championships where there's a whole bunch of pre-ling games and you can put guys in and out. I think for everybody, that includes forwards, defensemen, everybody, I mean, this is it. You can't, you know, you lose your first game, now what?

And so this is, everybody's here to perform and everybody's gonna try and do their best and as a coaching staff we don't feel it's getting done then we'll make a change but it's it's not like anybody can't do it somebody's got to be put in the net first but like I said it's I don't see it being a rotation Wow great question great audio No Sam bone Weren't I can see him going to Bittington first Bittington first. Yeah, I could see it. I Think the only other option is Hill. I don't think they'll go to mountain bow. No, no, I agree with that And for the record, I like Montembeau as a goalie, but I just the other guys have won cups This is short

You know, we're not trying to find out if a guy can do it. They need someone who's won in big games for sure so it's Like I don't know if people realize how short of a tournament it is to I mean three games It's not for us game three games to get to the fourth Somebody loses the first game and then they are must win Honestly, if if Bennington starts and he gives up two goals in the first ten minutes you might see hill Like it might just be like we don't have time to let someone find their way Jordan bent and finished his first the before the break with a win

If I've up to Chicago, but it was a win And what's the deal now they're they're giving away three points for win You have five up to Chicago, but it was a win. And what's the deal now? They're giving away three points for win. Is that? Yeah. Oh, can I tell you the thing I love about that? They're changing a couple of things.

Shootout, or sorry, overtime is three on three. For 10 minutes. And then a shootout. Where do we all have to get to? We can't watch these guys play five on five best on best hockey till someone scores. I know no that's not happening Because they got a they don't want to we do another period of five on five Other guys are on a beach and now we're gonna play all night Do you want the event to be taken seriously or not?

So gold medal game or whatever medal game, they're going to a three on three for the overtime? There's not a chance with all of these guys playing three on three for 10 minutes that you ain't getting a goal. No, you'll get a goal. The worst case scenario though is that this tournament ends in a three on three overtime because we're all gonna go, well, that was an hockey. We didn't get a goal. Yeah, the worst case scenario though is that this tournament ends in a three-on-three overtime because we're all gonna go Well, that was an hockey we didn't get a winner No, but everybody'll say that was highly entertaining and that's what they want the most. Hey

Quick sad note to finish off the show here, but I thought I would mention this Paul Morris Voice of Maple Leaf Gardens long time and I passed away. Yes Yeah, long time voice voice of the garden. So a little bit of a sad note then the show there but can legend you got a story No, just other than a guy only knew his voice Yeah, and I only knew with my heroes Sittler and McDonald saw me and then the first time I heard him say my name Was just one of those It was it was really really Oh my god. Was just one of those uhhhh blblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblblbl and was just in the building and he called the, like announced the goals or whatever. Just hearing him and that's it. I can't imagine it in the NHL level. You know what's really cool though? The Leafs still today will throw his last minute to play,

which is really good. I hope that's a nice royalty for the family. Yeah. Hey, get a good lawyer. All right. Our thanks to Jason Buchla and also Gord Stehlich in our Leaf Hour edition. Tomorrow. One hour.

One hour. We go live at 5pm Eastern. Keep that in mind the rest of the week as we start officially our Four Nations run here. Have a great night everybody.