Real Kyper & Bourne - UFA Uncertainty for Leafs and Jets

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

Nick Kypreos & Justin Bourne open the show with a call from Sam McKee, who's covering the PGA Canadian Open. They briefly discuss Canadians in the tourney, how Rory Mcllroy is playing and where they t...hink he will finish. Next up, Sean Reynolds from NHL on Sportsnet joins the show to share some possible trade destinations for Connor Hellebuyck, a culture-change offseason for the Jets and what Auston Matthews' top priorities are in resigning with the Leafs. Finally, the guys wrap up with likely figures for some of the Leafs' UFAs - like Michael Bunting and Ryan O'Reilly - and get ready for tonight’s Game 3 matchup between the Florida Panthers and Vegas Golden Knights.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. And it's a Sammy-less Real Kipper and Born show. JB, where is he? His priorities have been revealed, Kip. He's at a golf course again, watching golfers golf. Oakdale, the start of the Canadian Open, RBC Canadian Open. Yep. Our Sammy is there he's representing us last time he was inside the ropes walking along with the golfers as a real golf media guy is he
Starting point is 00:00:34 playing today i don't think so do we have a canadian uh connor's minus five i think he's leading the tournament we got a canadian in the lead last I checked. Sounds good. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandeo, Jen Rolnick, and producing with our lineup just at the buzzer. I thought I was going to start for the first time in two years, a show with no lineup.
Starting point is 00:00:58 You'd be Ron Burgundy. Just, uh, nothing to read. What do I read? And it, it's an okay lineup. It's getting graded on here. Yeah. Nothing to read. What do I read? It's an okay lineup.
Starting point is 00:01:09 Getting graded on here. Yeah. I got to be honest with you, Dave Sissboomba. I give this thing maybe a two out of ten. A two out of ten? I got no breaks. I've done this show for two years. I can't tell you when I'm going to break now.
Starting point is 00:01:26 Does it say where my break is? I got no breaks, Kip. We're just going to plow through today. Sponsors, we're sorry. Wave your hands when I want to go to break like you're landing a plane. We'll figure it out. Is it there? On our very own. I got 255 break.
Starting point is 00:01:40 Oh, yeah. That's going to be a long break. I know when the show's over, Dave. A 23-hour break. All right. Maybe we'll track down Sammy at at the golf course are they allowed cell phones there i don't know that would be hilarious though i would like to see that near someone like bryson dechambeau i don't know if he's even here but one of the angry golfers would be good okay let's see if we can track him down let's see if he'll pick up the phone let's see if he is lit up like a christmas
Starting point is 00:02:04 tree you know what's funny is he's lit up like a Christmas tree. You know, what's funny is he's been campaigning all week for people to buy him beers. If they see him, by the way, not just if you see me come on up and say, Hey, if you see me come up and buy me a beer has been Sammy's mantra.
Starting point is 00:02:15 So no guarantee what we would get out of them. If we got them. Well, we'll see what he has to say. If, if there's any sightings, even leaf sightings down there. Yes, I have word through a friend.
Starting point is 00:02:27 Ryan O'Reilly is in attendance. Someone said they passed him today. He's on the grounds. Yeah. He did a hit yesterday on a different network. Have you done that before? Gone to a PGA and just followed guys around? I went last year, yeah.
Starting point is 00:02:39 Oh, you did? Yeah. I'm going to go Sunday. It's, you know, this is a weird thing to say, but I think I would prefer to do it alone. Do we have Sammy? Hello. Okay.
Starting point is 00:02:48 Let's go to live Ryan Leslie at the Irish pub in Boston. Hey, Sammy. Are you Ryan Leslie right now? No, I'm being a good boy. I haven't had one sip of alcohol. I'm a big J journalist. I've been following around Rory McIlroy. I was watching some of the Canadian golf.
Starting point is 00:03:11 I've been inside the ropes here, fellas. I can't be drinking. I'm a big J. Good. I've taken lots of videos. Lots of videos. I'm writing lots of things about this. So it's been great.
Starting point is 00:03:20 You're an adult right now in the big room. Now, I'm thinking now that I've, you know, followed around with the big groups. I'm thinking I'm going to go maybe walk the back nine. I didn't see much of the back nine. I'm going to walk around and maybe see if there's somewhere that I could maybe purchase a cerveza or two. I might do it this afternoon. But, no, I've been a good boy this morning. It's been really good to be here so far.
Starting point is 00:03:39 And how's Rory's body language right now as a guy that's been whooped? So, I watched him for about 14 holes i walked with him and i think i think he finished one under i think he birdied the last hole to go to one under and he played like crap like i i for a guy that's the one of the best players in the world like he was chunking chips he was long in a lot of spots. His driving was off. He was kicking the tee boxes. He looked like he was having the worst round of his life, and he ends up being minus one.
Starting point is 00:04:10 I guess that's why he's one of the best players in the world. But I would say his body language looks a little dejected. Like, he doesn't have the pop in his step that he usually does. Looks like he's maybe a little bit tired from all the happenings in the golf world. So, yeah, I would definitely say that. When we played that course, you and I, it was last summer, I remember thinking they are going to eat this course alive. I thought it was defenseless, like a beautiful course,
Starting point is 00:04:33 but I didn't think it was going to hold up. How's it holding up? Looks like minus five's the lead. That's not bad. Yeah, there's some spots here where it would be a little bit, you can't hit a driver in some spots where you'd probably like to hit a driver. I saw a lot of irons off the tees from a couple of the groups. I heard a couple, I would say some muttering about one of the number eight here
Starting point is 00:04:54 where Justin Rose may have been dropping a couple S-bombs and saying it's an S-hole, this hole is S-y. So there's some, I would say there's some muttering going on a little bit around here but yeah it's it's holding up okay like i don't think they're ripping it apart but there's some tricky weird shots here where i don't know how it's gonna translate to sunday i'm looking at number 10 you know that sort of like supposed to be drivable tense remember that one that they were talking about i'm looking at it right now it's way up on top of the hill i i don't know what it's going to look like come sunday they have a lot of room to kind of move
Starting point is 00:05:28 the keys around move them up move them back but it's gonna be interesting to see but yeah uh it's holding up pretty well jb got word that ryan o'reilly is there and uh have you seen any sightings and i only bring this up sammy because he went on a toronto radio station yesterday. Not ours. And kind of suggested when he was describing the playoffs that there was times when he thought that they could have done things differently. And a lot of people want to connect that to Sheldon Keefe. I think that's probably a pretty natural thing to do, no? With the way that the fan base is feeling about Sheldon Keefe? I think that's probably a pretty natural thing to do, no? With the way that the fan base is feeling about Sheldon Keefe.
Starting point is 00:06:09 When I put out that poll, almost 2,000 people voted, and 70% of people think he shouldn't be back next year. So I think it's a pretty easy parallel to draw. But I think you could also say if they got a couple pucks to go into the net past Wrobski, it could have gone differently. All those games are so tight. So I'm here for connecting that to Keefe,
Starting point is 00:06:26 but I don't think it's probably all that. What do you guys think? Yeah, I think he was kind of saying, like, ah, you know, could have done things differently, like, you know, dump it in here or there or make a pass where we didn't. But I did. I was on high alert for that sort of thing.
Starting point is 00:06:39 I don't know. I could see how people connected the dots. I personally didn't. Yeah, and he left it wide open enough. Me personally, if he would have said that on our show, I would have said, what do you mean? What differently? Are you talking about Sheldon Keefe?
Starting point is 00:06:53 Strategy? Yeah, exactly. It seems to me like you're saying that the coaches could have done something differently. How hard would that have been to ask him that? Well, we could have, you know, we were too busy talking to Al Morganti yesterday. We need a better producer.
Starting point is 00:07:12 100%. All right, boys, I hope you enjoyed your day. I'm going to go out of here. Go, get out of here. Love you, boys. Love you, Sammy. Sammy McKee, live from the Canadian Open. Yeah, it's a general comment
Starting point is 00:07:27 and unless you specifically ask him what could he have done differently really twice he said there's a lot we could have done differently a couple of more dump ins I think he
Starting point is 00:07:42 was alluding to something deeper than that but i i don't necessarily go to sheldon keep right away but i can see why people would yeah i can too and you know i think he's trying to say you know he doesn't want to create a story but it is it's an interesting note and maybe part of the reason they fear going on radio in general is this sort of thing, but is that why they avoid our show? That's why we've had John DeVars and no one else this year. Yeah. And we have on occasion be more than any, you know,
Starting point is 00:08:15 anyone else. I know I've, I've questioned Sheldon's at times for not making necessary adjustments. Yeah. You know, when you look at that Florida series, you know, he kind of summed up the series. He was saying like, you know, in game two, you know, things didn't go our way.
Starting point is 00:08:34 Maybe we could have done some things differently. And then he says, and then Bobrovsky got hot. And by then you're in too deep a hole. And I think that's a fair point. But, you know, you have to make those adjustments early before you go down to nothing at home. You know, that's the game you need that game too okay in the next 10 minutes or 12 minutes we're gonna have a guest but i don't know who that guest is because uh it's not on my lineup right now but uh is it ryan reynolds who do we have oh sean oh sean reynolds that's just
Starting point is 00:09:01 love sean what's that not quite. Can you flip the paper over? Oh! It's double-sided. It's double-sided. That's much better. All right. You have to afford to double it now that you have twice the info to double your... David, I'm sorry.
Starting point is 00:09:21 I apologize. Hey, Kip, if you had more time with the pro with the lineup you probably you don't back it off too far okay are are we cutting back so much here at rogers that they're telling you to double side paper now interesting times all right okay i have questions for you david says boom bot never mind i have questions for you okay you wrote an article i did my no toronto star article came out you can find it on real at real kipper on my twitter handle and it uh talks about the goaltending situation what the maple leaves can learn from aiden hill stanley cup final run with the golden knights the most notable part to me.
Starting point is 00:10:06 So you don't come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter who's in that. That is the opposite of your conclusion, I would say. Correct. It's not, you don't say like, hey, Joseph Wohl can be the next Aiden Hill. It's, this isn't a, this is unusual. This is unusual. And as well as Vegas has built for this moment through George McPhee, Kelly McCrimmon, when you've left it in the hands of a fourth-string goaltender
Starting point is 00:10:31 to come in this late, it is nothing but a crapshoot and great on Aiden for stepping up. But you just can't take that chance if you're Brad Tree living next year on a team that has to win now yeah you'd rather see him get bolder and i think a lot of uh a lot of people would agree with you here so just gonna read a quick paragraph what should intrigue tree living is the number of quality goaltenders available this summer connor hellebuck carter hart thatcher demko and jeremy swayman could all be had for the right price you see sorrows from nashville may be the biggest
Starting point is 00:11:03 prize of all for the right mix of draft picks and prospects. He has two years left at a very affordable $5 million average annual value. The Leafs could conceivably go any route they choose in that regard, but it would most likely mean giving up one of their core four players. Yes. So really, is trading in a salary of Willieie neilander at 10 million dollars or let's throw marner in there too at 10 9 for a sorrows at 5 million plus maybe a 5 million dollar defenseman right the better route you know it's the first time that i've heard something in a potential trade of the
Starting point is 00:11:46 core four where my ears kind of went you know like because in every deal you think about it's like well if you trade marner willie or whatever you feel like you're going to get back a prospect and a draft pick and a promising guy i think to the taylor hall trade when they traded him you get back adam larson and it's like he might turn into a star and it's like or he might turn into a second pair guy this is interesting because uc soros is an established one of the best goals he's he's in the wheelhouse of winning right now he's cheap for two years and i assume if you do go that route and it will cost you a first rounder, a top pick, maybe even a roster player. Yeah, okay.
Starting point is 00:12:29 That you're going to have him for the next two years at $5 million and then you're going to want to re-sign him at whatever market bears and where the cap is. How he plays. You can really worry about that later. Yeah. But he comes in and he helps you win from a different perspective it kicks the door open the front the front end didn't work yeah right between nylander
Starting point is 00:12:53 marner matthews tavaris and even ryan o'reilly now made its core five if you look at it from last march into the playoffs five didn't work up front. Now does Brad come in and say, no, you really win this time of year from the back end out. It's interesting thought because like if you, you know, I believe that the great players in the NHL almost always get their cup or get around it, you know, to the cup finals or whatever.
Starting point is 00:13:24 Like there's not many guys in history think lindros is one of the few maybe marcel dion but mostly the best players find their way true through are connor hellebuck and uc sorrows in that class of guys who at some point are going to drag a team to the cup final just on their their excellence you could talk me into that i i believe that to some extent and sorrows to me you know i that that interests me now if you're barry trotz are you going to come in and have your first trade as a gm be to trade a guy who's been nominated for the vesna trophy multiple times on a cheap deal uh it it's not an easy one for him coming in five minutes on the,
Starting point is 00:14:05 on the job, but I would think he'd know his team better than, than anyone in that organization, even though he's been gone for the last few years. I don't think they're in a wheelhouse right now where they can recover anytime soon. I really don't. And I imagine he's got to see that.
Starting point is 00:14:27 Like, Duchesne's not getting better. Ryan Johansson's not getting better. A lot of the guys who make a lot of their money not getting better. You just traded Eckholm. Like, they are pretty clearly in a rebuild coming up here. And they've got a kid,
Starting point is 00:14:38 I think it's a Russian prospect, too. Why did they get rid of Tolvanen? What a dumb move that was. I think they've got a good prospect, a goaltender. Oh, yeah, Askarov. Yeah. Right? Yeah, he's legit.
Starting point is 00:14:52 Okay. Would he be a year or two away? I mean, he might be next year ready. He had a good run with Milwaukee, didn't he? Yeah, I think he's probably next year ready to at least play, whether he's great or not, who knows. I mean, we just talked to you yesterday about philadelphia and daniel briere making a bold move yeah like they guys got to come
Starting point is 00:15:11 in and and make fast decisions and i think brad's in that position where he's gotta he's he can't just i think come in and and necessarily play it safe between Samsonov and Joseph wall. And I'm not saying that that, that won't be the ultimate decision for them, but this robust list of grade a goaltenders right now, which we know isn't what it used to be. But it also helps in the year when everyone's going, it doesn't matter who's your goal.
Starting point is 00:15:44 And look at Aiden Hill. Like those guys might get cheaper because of that. Here's a question for you. So know you're a big Marner guy and, you know, think he's excellent and believe in him. And many in Toronto do. Let's say in a hypothetical that he were the guy to go for, for Soros.
Starting point is 00:16:05 Yeah. Who has to attach more to that trade? You know, Marner also has two years left on his deal at just under 11. You know, Marner is a lead elite. He's been voted the best right winger in the league two of the last three years. Does Nashville have to throw in more or because sorrows is so cheap does that offset some of it i would think marner has has more value than sorrow i do too absolutely 100 point guy yeah top winger 25 years old yes 26 whatever yeah yeah you know
Starting point is 00:16:40 that so i i would be curious what that would look like. There's 80, there's 30 games. Saros doesn't play. Yeah. Great point. And if you're Nashville, like that's tempting. So then I wonder if Nylander, if you have to do like a sign and trade,
Starting point is 00:16:52 you know, if they have to know that they get him, cause that to me is a more one for one type of trade, but they would have to know that they have Nylander under contract beyond that to make that trade probably. So again, nine times six and trade them you got to understand too and i i don't protest to know nashville's salary cap off the
Starting point is 00:17:12 top of my head real well here but you're also you know you're offering them 11 million dollars you're taking five back yeah so uh i don't know if that if the math works works for Nashville, even if it was straight up. Yeah. They got some guys that they could happily part with. Again, I named those two. You want to throw Yossi in there too? No. They can have Marner and Nylander if you want to do that.
Starting point is 00:17:37 Yossi Sorrows for Marner and Nylander. Talk amongst yourselves. We didn't. Ah, they got lots of room. Yeah, they got lots of room is right. But I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I don't know where they are right now.
Starting point is 00:17:52 Right. I just traded Marner and Nylander. It's like, yeah, Matthews is going to score 600 next year. Outside of that, we mentioned Hellebuck. We're going to have Seannolds does a terrific job following uh talk all the winnipeg jets we'll get his thoughts in a few minutes on on hellebuck and how quickly he sees him perhaps in a new uniform yeah yeah i like him a lot too by the way hellebuck yes yeah yeah he you know what he's just he's weird in a good way you know he's got that goalie sort of
Starting point is 00:18:25 demeanor he's competitive he plays a lot he's big he's he's a battler two teams i could easily see hellebuck playing for next year as early as september october new jersey oh good one and los angeles kings i wonder because new jersey seems to think they're in the window now right they traded for timo meyer at the deadline and they're not expected to qualify uh restrictive free agent mackenzie blackwood either yeah that changes things i'm just thinking about in terms of what they could trade that winnipeg would want i think Winnipeg has to have an honest conversation with itself about what they are going to be. You know, do they want first-round picks?
Starting point is 00:19:10 Or are they hoping to get guys who can play now? You know, that's a big swing. Do they have what Winnipeg would want? And the Kings, too. You know, how many picks do the Kings want to trade? My honest opinion on the Kings is that they're not as close as they seem to think they are. They're good.
Starting point is 00:19:27 But I don't know. Kopitar's another year older. He's a big part of it. Dowdy too. There are some teams linking. There's some people linking Carter Hart even to the Toronto Maple Leafs. That one I cannot see. No, I can't either.
Starting point is 00:19:42 It doesn't appeal to me either. I don't need another guy who's a high ceiling, low floor guy. I just can't live like that. And the other thing too is, and he got off to a terrific start last year. He was really good, but he tailed off. They beat the heck out of him though. Oh, we can get some Jets questions answered now. All right, let's go to Sean Reynolds.
Starting point is 00:20:02 Does a terrific job for Sportsnet, Hockey Night in Canada, covering the Winnipeg Jets and everything out west. Sean, how are you, pal? I'm doing great, Kipper. How are you doing, bud? Yeah, we're good. We thought it'd be a good time to talk a little bit of the Jets and coming off our conversation of this list of potential available goalies. And how do you not put Hellebuck at the top of the list, right?
Starting point is 00:20:33 Oh, yeah, no doubt. I mean, if you're, you know, there's so many teams out there that are thinking, if we could just, if we could just get a goaltender, that would be the finishing piece. Connor Hellebuck isn't just that. This is a goaltender that has kept the Winnipeg Jets alive for a number of years and had them in playoffs in probably a number of years.
Starting point is 00:20:55 I think this year you can include that. I think the play-in year are years that Jets, their numbers would tell you that they weren't a very good team but conor hellebuck just kept them in it so you're not just talking about a goaltender that's like you know we're la we're a pretty good team if we get out a goaltender we could compete you're talking about the kind of goaltender that can take a mid-range team and make them an upper level team if he continues to do with that team what he's done with the Winnipeg Jets so this is really one of those trades that if you can pick up this goaltender you know I don't want to put
Starting point is 00:21:30 him way too high up there and it's funny to say that considering he's in Vesna contention for so many of these years and has a Vesna but like you take a look at way back in the 90s a trade like the one that sent color uh Patrick Watt, that entirely changed the face of that franchise and what they were capable of. I'm not putting him at Patrick Waugh's level yet. He's got a ton that he has to prove in his career to get there. But there's potential for this to be that kind of deal. A team can go pick up this player, sign him long-term, and have him around.
Starting point is 00:22:01 He could be the backbone, the very foundation of an organization that could have a ton of success just based on the idea that you've got a goaltender that time and time again has shown you he can steal games to the degree that he makes a team look a lot better than it actually is so he may be the crown jewel in terms of trades or maybe dubois you know there's shifley there's wheeler we were tight Can I just ask one more goalie question on Hellebuck? Yes. Okay, and I'm going to ask you this too as well. Okay, you mentioned Sinem.
Starting point is 00:22:32 Does he have a strong argument to be a $10 million goaltender like Bobrovsky or Carey Price before he shut it down? Oh, I think he entirely does. You know, based on i i still i would not put him where uh carrie price got to in his career i mean carrie price is a goaltender who made the canadians relevant for a lot of years where they shouldn't have been relevant conor halibut has done similar things with winnipeg i just don't think to the degree of carrie price um i i mean i would definitely put him in the bobroski range what i've seen bobroski do in
Starting point is 00:23:05 his career right now if i would pick the two more impressive careers i would pick connor helibut um i guess the question for him and he has said this i mean it's the reason we're talking about him moving on because at the year end he basically said he wants to be somewhere where he can compete you talk to him time and again what does he need to prove in his career in the playoffs? Over and over. He's said this consistently to me for years. He just wants to win that cup. He's entirely singularly focused on
Starting point is 00:23:34 winning a cup. So he wants to go someplace where that's going to happen. Well, I think if you're a player that kind of puts that idea first, sometimes you have to say, do I want to be a $10 million goaltender on a team that has a chance of winning the cup? Or do I want to be an eight,
Starting point is 00:23:50 $8.5 million goaltender on a team that's going to have a really good chance of winning the cup because I've left a little bit of money on the table. I've never had this conversation with him, but I do know that Connor Helbig is so singularly focused on that, that if he found the right situation i could see him backing off the money a little bit just to make sure the team that he was with had enough left behind that it could compete for what he you know truly wants to win and he has no uh trade protection i believe so he could go anywhere right but presumably he would
Starting point is 00:24:22 they trade him somewhere where they know they could get him re-signed? Well, if you want to maximize the return, and I do think that of all the players, you know, you were just touching on it, he'd be the crown jewel for what the Winnipeg Jets have. Everything else seems to come with conditions. Like Pierre-Luc Dubois is a situation where the Jets just do not have a lot of leverage
Starting point is 00:24:43 because of where he likely wants to go. The fact that he's only got one more year of team control left. I mean, Pierre-Luc Dubois seems to have spent the majority of his career in places that he doesn't want to be. He's one year away from choosing his ticket and going to where he wants to go. It seems like he's going to exercise that unless the Jets expedite the process. But, you know, we're hearing different stories. Of course, Jeff Merrick today talking about the New York Rangers and the Minnesota Wild,
Starting point is 00:25:11 which to me, I don't know if that's just like, if that's coming from purely the WOS camp, it seems like it's them messing with the Winnipeg Jets, giving them an option that's not really an option because the last thing the Jets want to do is stare down I-95 Highway and head down to Minnesota and get blanked for the next eight years against Connor Hellebuck, right? But if he truly does want to go to Montreal, Montreal, I don't think, thinks it's winning the Cup this year. So there's really not a rush to get him there. So they don't have to give up a lot. And if there's not a lot of competition,
Starting point is 00:25:45 because he's not going to accept competition, that puts them in a tough spot. The Shifley potential trade, I mean, I think people look around the league and see he can put up good numbers. But I think when you watch his game, people question, you know, his commitment to, you know, a defensive style of game. So I think anyone who's picking up Shifle kind of feels like they need to bring him in and make sure he can fit in with their culture
Starting point is 00:26:07 and kind of get back to the kind of hockey he was playing for years, even though he still puts up points with ease. But Connor Hellebuck is one of those absolutely flawless assets. If you go get Connor Hellebuck, you know exactly what you're going to get. So if you're able to get him and be a team that thinks they're right on the edge, they just need to solve their goaltending problem,
Starting point is 00:26:28 and you have the money to do it, he's the kind of guy that you could trade and build, you know, one, two, three, maybe four assets that, you know, five or six years down the road from now, you take a look, and the team he's with is happy they picked him up, but the Winnipeg Jets are extremely happy because he's basically built the foundation of the next up, but the Winnipeg Jets are extremely happy because he's basically built the foundation of the next big run of the Winnipeg Jets.
Starting point is 00:26:50 Well, it's a crazy time because there's, you know, you look at the guys and what they might bring back. Blake Wheeler's a name who also comes up and probably needs an asset with him. I don't know necessarily to trade him. I'd heard somewhere along the way that you know the reasonably high likelihood that all four of those guys could get traded before the season where are you on the likelihood cheval de off has not been an aggressive gm in the past where are
Starting point is 00:27:16 you in the likelihood that all four of those guys get traded well i think with hell above you can't risk leaving here for nothing because of what we just talked about, the ability for him to bring back basically the future of your organization. If we take a look, and I don't know how you guys perceived it from the outside, but Rick Bonas and his disgusted comments following the Winnipeg Jets crashing out of the playoffs in the first round against the Vegas Golden Knights, I think was a sign of something we've seen for years. The thing about Rick Bonas is he'll tell you exactly what he thinks, and I don't think Paul Maurice did that when he was here with the Winnipeg Jets,
Starting point is 00:27:55 which is why people were surprised when all of a sudden, you know, everything seems to be going good, and then all of a sudden he walks away from the team. I think there was a lot of truth left on the table that wasn't told when he was here of the issues that were here. Rick Bonas coming in and saying a comment like that gives you an idea of what the state of that dressing room is, what the state of the leadership of that dressing room is.
Starting point is 00:28:15 And because of that, I think there's a desperate need for a culture change in Winnipeg. And I do not think you create that culture change without moving both Blake Wheeler and Mark Scheifle in fact I think it's impossible to do with Blake Wheeler in the room because they stripped the captaincy from him tried to put other players into that role Adam Lauer being one of them and you saw when that team kind of turned on its coach at the end of your availability they essentially pledged their fealty to Blake Wheeler and said, well, he may have had the captaincy stripped, but he's our captain and nothing has changed around there.
Starting point is 00:28:52 Well, if nothing's changed and we've been seeing that Paul Maurice needed to walk away from this team and that new coach is disgusted with their effort, if nothing has changed and he still is the leader and that's the results you're getting i think it's pretty obvious you need a new leader the jets have to change their culture i don't think you can pull that off without moving shifley and blake wheeler we're talking about hockey night in canada and sports that's sean reynolds does a terrific job covering the winnipeg jets uh sean the jets relocated what 2011 there was a this great uh return sellout crowds everything was been been going great and then what uh pandemic hits and you
Starting point is 00:29:35 know all of a sudden they're not selling out anymore uh jet fans wake up today and they can see their the nucleus of the team blowing up. How's this going moving forward for Winnipeg and all this uncertainty? Is this a nervous time for the organization? I think it most definitely is for the organization. I think, you know, based on what I've heard, I think I think very is for the organization. I think, you know, based on what I've heard, I think I think very differently than the organization does when it comes to that.
Starting point is 00:30:10 You hear these conversations that the team has, and, you know, they're talking about moving these players, and they're basically saying, well, don't be offering us futures. We want to compete right now. So basically what the Jets are trying to offer is, you know, a bunch of players on expiring contract they want to trade you mark shifley and they want your mark shifley back but they want
Starting point is 00:30:30 him signed down long term so it's like here you take our problem and we'll take your solution to me that message that they're sending out there it doesn't resonate and i take a look around the league and i think any team that wants mark shifley is probably trying to get mark shifley to put them over the top or connor helleb probably trying to get Mark Scheifele to put them over the top, or Connor Hellebuyck, same thing, trying to get a player to put them over the top. You don't give away equal value right now for a player that you're trying to put over the top. You give a little bit of your future so you've got a great present. But I think the Winnipeg Jets are saying this because what I sense from them
Starting point is 00:31:03 is that they're worried that if they dip a little bit and they're not a team that's making the playoffs in the next couple of years, that it's only going to worsen their situation with fans, and like you said, the lack of sales that they've been seeing. I truly think that the issue with the Winnipeg Jets is one that that core that we're talking about, the culture that needs changing, the culture that got called out by their head coach is one that has been abrasive
Starting point is 00:31:30 and rubbing on fans for a number of years. Now, you'll get this, Kipper. A team that really reflects its fan base is a successful team. So the Big Bad Bruins were Big Bad Bruins for years. They knew what their fans were. They were trying to reflect their fans on the ice. Same thing with the Philadelphia Flyers for years and so on,
Starting point is 00:31:51 the last 10 years or so. Did a real good job of really reflecting the grit of the city with their team. Well, Winnipeg is not a flashy town. It is people who go to work, put their effort in, put on their boots, take them off, grab their Jets hat hat and then head out to the game afterwards. So when they see a team full of players that aren't out there grinding and trying to get things accomplished in a working-like manner, and rather they're seeing a team full of guys who are trying to flash their skill
Starting point is 00:32:21 and when the game gets hard, they're not that interested in pushing for it. I think that that is what has been kind of driving fans a little bit away i don't want to go spend 150 when i walk away from my job pouring concrete or or you know pounding stakes in the ground on a job site and go watch a bunch of guys not willing to put in the effort that i put in every day on my job so i think that what's happened here, this is my personal opinion. I don't think the Jets share it at all. But my personal opinion is that the Winnipeg Jets have kind of lost the connection with the fans of who their fans are and what they want to see.
Starting point is 00:32:58 I don't think this team or this market would have any problem handling a rebuild if you brought in a bunch of young players with a bright future who were giving everything they had on the ice, even if they were missing the playoffs. One of the most interesting stories is 2017 when Patrick Laine came rolling onto the scene and Kyle Conner, we were seeing, was turning into this phenomenal player. The fans absolutely loved going to this game.
Starting point is 00:33:27 I think they need to recapture their relationship with their fans and worry a little bit less about the idea that fans are only showing up to see a team that has a shot at winning the Stanley Cup. All right, Sean, we're going to let you go, pal. But as always, we appreciate your time. Fascinating to watch these storylines
Starting point is 00:33:44 coming out of Winnipeg going into the draft. Anytime, guys. Really appreciate you having me on. Thanks, Sean. Appreciate it, man. Bye-bye. That was good stuff, boy. I really agree with the stuff about connecting with the city and what your fans want to see from you. The problem
Starting point is 00:34:00 is a lot of teams want that element we're talking about. You know, just following the game today and where the players are and they understanding where their contract is and then the leverage and then the playing off of, hey, you want to be paid really well or you want to win? Guess what?
Starting point is 00:34:22 You can't have both. And Sean just talked about that about Hellebuck. And I asked him, well, how much are you going to pay for what you can't have both and sean just talked about that about hellebuck and i asked him well uh how much are you going to pay for hellebuck and you know he's the first one to say well you you want to make the most of money maybe you can get 10 which i don't think i don't think there's a market out there for 10 for him me personally yep but sean's right you want to try to win you take eight and this is the theme with the elite players it just doesn't seem like it happens in other sport and other sports like i don't hear a lot of like you know kevin durant should take less money next year the system
Starting point is 00:34:58 is i know it's just yeah it's so different this one's so crystal clear. It may have taken the fans 15, 20 years to figure it out, but they know it. Yeah. How much of our pie are you costing, and how much are you contributing? Don't be on the wrong side of that equation. Just look at this situation right here in Toronto with 34. Oh, has he got a contract up?
Starting point is 00:35:24 It will be such a simple conversation between brad and austin matthews you want the most you can get or do you want to win here in Toronto yeah it's a yes or no question it's that simple and if the answer is yes I want to win in Toronto then you know where the follow-ups coming from Bradtree Living yeah you cannot take 14 and a half a big number here yeah you cannot have your cake and eat it too the system sucks for the players it really does yeah but guess what it it it solidifies the owners get 50 of the revenue which is great but it kind of sucks for them too because it doesn't allow you to keep your best players oh it's bad It's bad for everybody. All around.
Starting point is 00:36:26 All the way around. It is. Outside of their financial means. Yeah, heaven forbid you draft and develop someone who becomes excellent, and then all of a sudden you're in trouble to keep them after a few years. You know, it's a... Fans don't have the chance to get attached to people the way they used to. There's also the... You see the Jose Bautista stuff in his contract?
Starting point is 00:36:44 Yes, I did. It's not going to help our Canadian teams out very much. Can you explain that for those? Yeah, the very short version of it is to hide your money from the tax people in Canada, you can put it in a retirement plan. There's a specific retirement plan that athletes have been putting their money into. I think it's called an RCA. An RCA.
Starting point is 00:37:04 And so you put your money in that. You're not taxed on that portion. You can take it out when you retire. Bye-bye. Problem is, when you're rich, rich, rich, like these guys, you retire when you're done playing baseball. You can be retired at 34.
Starting point is 00:37:16 So Batista's taking out like 90% of his money because he's retired. But he's not like 65 years old retired. He's rich person retired. So now it looks like it's like a way to hide your money from the government. The government saying, well, if you're not, that's not what that is, that account. We want that tax then. So if you're a Canadian athlete or an athlete playing Canada and you want to shelter money from Canadian taxes,
Starting point is 00:37:37 which, you know, Florida, Tampa, Dallas, Arizona, you don't have to do that there. Did you mention Arizona? I did. arizona you don't have to do that there it now did you mention arizona i did it now looks like it might be getting harder to protect what you earn in canada is that cool cool cool cool cool cool yeah so you're saying austin doesn't want to pay canadian taxes no i am saying that you wrote in your article today that uh rbc who he's a uh ambassador for wanted him to come up and play in the pro-am at oakdale and he uh he didn't come do it well i want to come here and yeah i'm sure he's got a few other things this week going and uh at the end of the day the only thing i mentioned was um you know
Starting point is 00:38:18 he's maybe just didn't want to deal with the can or the Toronto media. Yeah. And you know, if he'd be bombarded, this is a terrible time for him to come answer questions. Honestly, it is because I think he's probably just wants to remain low key on the whole thing. And coming, coming up here in a very public form,
Starting point is 00:38:41 like the Canadian open would just drop all all those stores rbc i'm like we pay you like a million dollars like you can't come play 18 holes on our behalf yeah but you don't know listen to be fair i have no idea yeah to be fair you don't know what uh he's paid to do what i have no clue right i truly have no clue. And those type of things, those type of, what do I owe you? Do I owe you three commercials? Do I owe you three commercials plus an appearance,
Starting point is 00:39:12 three appearances? Do I owe you a full day at the Canadian Open? Yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right. That's probably negotiated. You don't know what's in his deal. What's his line
Starting point is 00:39:23 from all those RBC commercials? I don't know. You can't remember? Just come and open up an account with us. That's in his deal. What's his line from all those RBC commercials? I don't know. You can't remember? Just come and open up an account with us. That's all it means. I don't think that's what it is. That's all it means at the end of the day. But no, that was an interesting note.
Starting point is 00:39:34 But it'll be interesting in terms of, come on, what are we at now? June what? Eighth. Eighth? Does he not know by now? He knows. How do you not know? You know.
Starting point is 00:39:49 You do know. And hopefully Tree Living knows. Is it, are they not able to come out and say that they know that there's an agreement or whatever because of the NHL? Is there some sort of embargo on them talking before the first? No, you can talk. You can talk. So they can come out and say, yeah, we're looking to make this happen.
Starting point is 00:40:08 You just can't have, you can even have an agreement, but you don't publicly say it, and no one's bugging your phone. You could have something in the desk right now if you wanted to, and you make it official July 1st. Yeah. Yeah, it would be nice to hear that, right? That official july 1st yeah yeah it would be nice to hear that right that there's something in the drawer be nice if if if austin's top priority is to remain a toronto maple leaf not just remain to be a toronto maple leaf but remain to be a
Starting point is 00:40:38 toronto maple leaf and win then there's going to be easy scenarios on a three five seven eight year contract so what's the number to you where he has notably said i took that because i want to win uh 12 7 12 you know what i wanted a specific number thank you for giving it to me. Connor McDavid, 12.5. Nathan, 12.6. And just out of respect for the cap going up, I will give you 12.7. Love that. I wonder, yeah, if someone will at some point just smash
Starting point is 00:41:19 and buy that by one and a half. Their dated contracts, our trajectory for the cap is going to go up. and i don't want to embarrass you you are considered a top three top five player in the world just because your cap is most or your your contract's most recent i will respect that trajectory and give you 12-7 but if you want to give him 15 times eight or something then you know what? He's the bad guy. 15 times 8? Yes.
Starting point is 00:41:47 So much money. Yes, you can't win with 15 times 8. I can't get you a cup in the next three years at 15 times 8. But at 8 million in, you know, five years when the cap is up $15 million or whatever it is, that's probably aggressive, but you know what I mean. Maybe it looks better. Anyway, you're probably right. I don't know.
Starting point is 00:42:04 That's just my theory. So don't sign eight yeah give me 12 seven for three years love that um bunting before we go to break real quick or do we have time yeah um athena see you re-ups off uh 20 goals 20 uh 40 points season at 4.25 uh as i wrote today in my article for the toronto star that puts uh bunting he hasn't from a couple of teams bunting's been better than that at five million dollars there are teams out there i hear will be willing to pay him five million over four uh Over minimum four. Wow. I think you could get five times five. Based on 20 goals and 20 assists for Athens CU,
Starting point is 00:42:55 Bunting should have no problem going five times five. Okay, we got to go to break. All right, let's go to break. Our Sammy-less show continues after the break. Real Kipper and Bourne. Breaking down the top stories in the NHL every day. The Jeff Marys Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590, The Van.
Starting point is 00:43:30 All right, no Sammy, which means, JB, you're up on playoff picks. All right, it's time for playoff picks presented by Bet365. Let me try again. It's time for playoff picks presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds. All right, two ways you can go with this game tonight. So we're back on tonight at long last florida vegas in florida if you like vegas and i think most people like vegas the way things are going right now over three and a half goals for their team with mark stone getting over two and a half shots and william carlson getting over one and a half shot is a massive payout plus 600.
Starting point is 00:44:11 You know, that requires Vegas to score four times, but don't hate that. You like that one? I do because everybody scores on every line. Yeah, that's true. And I just can't see them getting shut down. Like, I know they're going into florida and there's you're never really out of a series until you lose on the home ice right right but i don't know how you stop four solid lines like is is marcia so gonna slow down here is he's the guy to me the most impactful guy who's going to score some big goals
Starting point is 00:44:45 still william carlson's like a third liner on them i know and he's just lights out right now too he's really good so for florida if you do believe florida's going to come back uh you can get florida to win they score three and a half goals so four goals uh and kachuk scores a goal if those things happen that's plus 450 so hey if you want to go on the Florida side of things, not a bet for me. You? Yeah, I'm more comfortable with Vegas at this point. Yeah, I am too. We'll keep her tight without Sammy.
Starting point is 00:45:14 That was Playoff Picks presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds. I will use this window then to follow up on our conversation we were having before the break. Yeah. I don't feel like I got enough chat on the bunting thing. Yeah. And I happen to see you a contract really does set him up nicely.
Starting point is 00:45:32 Yeah, it does. He can say, well, I'm better than that. You know, for the last two years, I've been considerably better than that. Do you have any idea who might have interest i just don't see the leafs touching four and a half or five million on on a four or five year deal for bunting i i don't see that and i uh months ago i said they'll get it done with bunting yeah and i thought maybe you would have been looking at maybe 375 for six years. He'll take that term. He'll lock in 20, 25 million somehow, some way with keeping the AAV low.
Starting point is 00:46:13 Right. But on Athanasius' contract, there's just no reason to go below 4.5 million. I wonder what they would think of him. We talked to Sean Reynolds about Winnipeg today. You know, like another Canadian team that doesn't score a ton is calgary but like you know winnipeg's a team that's gonna lose a lot of guys who contribute you can play top six he's a little scrappy he can but you know are you you're paying him five five kip you're playing him on the second line i know but there's a big difference between playing them on the second line if i'm trying to make the playoffs and playing them on the second line if i'm trying to win a stand and win a cup yeah so there's teams right now sitting going cup cup yeah just get me
Starting point is 00:46:56 in the playoffs yeah i'm trying to save my job detroit detroit would playoffs yeah thank you there it is uh maybe one of those teams that says listen uh in a perfect world for me and i do like michael bunting is there stuff that he needs to work on like you know that drawing penalties and uh the embellishing and the head snapping i can get that out of his game yeah i can it just it just needs work it just needs some one-on-one uh you can get that out of his game what you can't put in his game is in the playoffs to play a heavy game no he's always going to be 180 pounds or whatever he is and the danger is for any team that thinks they can content for stanley cup is putting a guy as light as that on your top six.
Starting point is 00:47:47 He's not Palat. He's not Kalorn. Kalorn's available, by the way. Right. You know, it's interesting because the Leafs actually didn't score a lot last year. They're middle of the pack in their division. You know, we're talking about trading a core guy. You're going to lose bunting.
Starting point is 00:48:03 Like, they may struggle to score for the first time since this core kind of came together. Be interesting to see if they can find some of that cheap. But man, they've walked a lot of good players to the door. Hyman just left. We basically started this show with Ryan O'Reilly and we're probably going to end on it. You think he really wants to sign here? I do. I think he's won a Stanley Cup. I think he's from ontario i think it would mean the world to him to do something here so
Starting point is 00:48:31 yeah i do so what is by the way if we're talking same numbers for ryan o'reilly and and bunting and we are we're in that same ballpark right right? Yes. Like, that's not a particularly tough decision. Well, but it is. Which is going to drive O'Reilly's number up. But Bunting's 27. Yeah, O'Reilly's. 31, 31, 32. Yeah, at least. So for me, how many years does Ryan O'Reilly want?
Starting point is 00:48:59 That's a big deal to me with Brad. Yeah, he's 32. Four. Would you max at four, he's 32. Four. Would you max at four for him? 32 years old. And if he wants five? The problem is when he's already not fleet of foot. What's it look like at 36?
Starting point is 00:49:13 Five? Would you give him five? No, I don't want to. Okay, I don't either. Okay. All right. Just like that. John Reynolds, thank you very much for joining us.
Starting point is 00:49:21 We got Sammy back tomorrow. Woo! Do you have Doug? I don't know. You can see if he's still back in Portugal or not. I'm going to take the day off. Oh yeah, that's right. Just me and Sammy tomorrow.
Starting point is 00:49:31 Enjoy game three, everybody. It goes tonight on Sportsnet. We'll see you next time.

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