Real Kyper & Bourne - Vally's View: Can Carolina Flip the Final?

Episode Date: June 9, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick off with the news out of Edmonton as the Oilers seem poised to hire Mike Babcock as their next head coach. Then, MSG analyst and CEO of Clear Sight Analytics, Steve Valiquette (8:25), stops by to help tee up Game 4 between the Golden Knights and Hurricanes. He breaks down the first three games by the numbers, why Carolina should turn to Brandon Bussi, and why Mitch Marner has found more playoff success in Vegas than in Toronto. After, they get into a Stanley Cup Final-themed edition of Grill Marks! Finally, Nick, Justin and Sam discuss Bruce Cassidy's narrowing options, Michael McCarron signing a six-year extension with the Wild, and potential trade packages for Dylan Larkin. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, game day on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on SportsFF 590, The Fan. Sportsnet 960 in Calgary, 650 in Vancouver, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus, and YouTube, where we always appreciate the chat and the thumbs up. This hour of Real Kipper and Born brought you by Bet365. Jake the Snake Shultz, Derek Brandeo, Chris Gallagher, our new assistant producer. Sammy, you like having an assistant? Love it.

Love it, yeah. I wish I had my regular headphones. Does he get your coffee? Do you make him get you coffee? I would never in a million years. Stop it. Listen, when I first started at the Fan 590 back in the day as an intern, there was a couple boys that used to send me for food,

send me for coffee, and I'd always do it. And it was one of the most demeaning things I ever did. I hated it and I never did it. I forgot to send you for coffee the first two or three years of our show. We really dropped the ball. There's nothing I hated more. But listen, I put my head down and did it, And now it's got me on TV looking like an idiot DJ.

We are glad we got Chris. Don't worry, Chris. No coffee runs just yet for you. Plenty to get into. We're going to be jam-packed again. Of course, we got Steve Aliquette that's going to join us in about 10 minutes. So much to get into. But big story capturing a lot of hockey fans,

at least coast to coast in this country, is the potential return of Mike. Babcock as now the head coach of the Edmonton Oilers. Oh, bringing that sweet content. Where is content gold? Where are we on this on your radar? I mean, it seems like it's happening. Everyone I've talked to about it, it seems like it's a matter of time.

It will happen. It will happen. Yes. Mike Babcock will get to go to me. It will happen. There's really nothing. to stop it at this point. So do you think they wanted,

they're like, we want Cassidy, but they won't let us have Cassidy. So we want like a taskmaster type to really hold people, get the squeeze that last percent out. Under the radar, this has been discussed for a while now, Mike Babcock. This isn't something that

snuck up. And let's face it. The players want it. More specifically, Connor Leon the leaders yeah all think this is the right move

they get a prairie guy yes Sammy yes I mean and a lot of talk out there that Zach Hyman is behind this because he was in Toronto and junior connections junior connection now to

hiring his son Mike Babcock Jr's but let me just remind you it ain't Zach's team the Edmonton Oilers there's only one guy to re-clary that just for the audience Zach owns a junior team uh yeah and his brother and his family and so they hired Mike and that's uh junior Michael Brentford Michael Babcock yes yeah okay so they yeah I mean and and Zach has been tied to this a lot and and I'm sure if if they

asked Zach, of course, he was instrumental in really giving him a chance to be an NHL everyday guy and eventually core guy in Edmonton. I mean, now, two things on that. One is that Zach was going to be that. You know, whether it was Mike or not, this guy ended up a 50-some goal score in the NHL. He was, he worked his tail off and deserved it. But Mike is the one who saw it and said, come on up, fit right in, top six.

opportunities, liked them, and has, yeah, Zach has that experience with them and knows that. But this has the blessing of Connor with David. Yeah. Can I be the guy to step in here and just be like, this is nuts? Go ahead. Am I, I know you have always had a sneaky Babcock love,

which is, some people may be surprised by that. Prairie boy. I just think, like, this is the last kick at the can. not the last kick of the can according to Bob Stauffer today on air. But like, this is the move. This is,

like, are we, are we sure? Are we sure? Like, I just, this is a real swing. To answer your question,

no. No, we're not sure. Nobody's sure. Oh, man. But this is, he's not sure. To your point,

this is last kick of the can opportunity. And Connor knows it. So, usually, in the everyday world of NHL coaching, when you see a coach leave, if it was a hard ass,

they bring in a softer guy. If it's a softer guy, you go get a hard ass. Think about who's he replacing. Now block. Maybe one of the nicest soft-spoken coaches.

Soft-spoken. What does Connor want? The opposite. Yeah. Someone a match is. Get somebody that's going to rattle the cages here. And that's what this is all about, guys. And also when you're a superstar, they don't rattle your cage.

Babs isn't coming in and doing anything different to Connor. He ain't coming in for Connor. He's coming in for about 16 other guys who need to show up and help Connor and Leon. So there's two things with Babs. to consider. One is the resume, right? I just can't believe we're talking about that. Well, I know.

It's remarkable. You know, I see people saying, you know, that he hasn't won a playoff round since God knows when. He hasn't coached in, what, six years? Well, that's kind of part of it. And part of that was after the Toronto time, part of us by choice. He had four more years of paid. He didn't have to.

Yeah, but he tried to get in with Columbus and we all know how that went. And for sure. And so, but I even don't think that was the most egregious thing. and I know that other people disagree and that's fine disagree with me on that. Some people are tying in, well, how's the NHLPA? I know. Like, the NHLPA is going to stop that guy

from making a living because he looked at a kid's phone. Yeah. No, I don't think so. He was in the second round of playoffs. Bowman's the GM. Don't think so. Yeah. So, you know, but I do think the resume is worth acknowledging

that he is a triple gold guy with a cup of a gold medal in the world juniors. And I think he won. college as well. A lot of winning. And he's a prick. Absolutely. There's pain coming.

That's a, that was literally going to get to that next. Yeah. Was that you have to weigh this thing that he grinds on people. He does. But I also don't think you can be a successful coach over 40 years without grinding on him. Well, he probably did it as hard as any in history. So, I mean, you talked to 76 Canadians, ask any living legend off of that team. Scotty Bowman's stories.

Buddy, Al Arbor stories aren't great. Al Arbor stories, like you go down the list. There's not a lot of love for Daryl Sutter. I'm sure in L.A., Mike Keenan, all the ones in history have the similarity of attacking character or lack of it. Yeah. And they usually go after the week. They won't go after the McDavid's, to your point.

If you want to get the most out of guys, there's a few people in the wrong. side of the line. I'm not saying it's great. I'm saying it's professional sports. Some people are going to come out of that. I bet Mike has some regrets too. You know? Anyway. We got values. Please

let's just get the content going already. We just did. He's already giving us juice. Let's talk about the Italian side. I imagine our first guest on every Tuesday, Steve Aliquette, analysts with the Rangers, CEO ClearSight Analytics might have a thing to or two to say about Mike Babcock and his potential return,

which we think is imminent at this point for the Edmonton Oilers. Let's welcome him in Valley. How are you, my friend? Doing really well, guys. You know what? Lost a big game last night with the Knicks. Unfortunately, I don't know if you guys are paying much attention to. Yeah, we did.

Not much going on last night, right? So that's, that series took, okay, can I just ask you? Like, you know, because I love MSG, you know, the, I go back to my 94 days, like, incredible vibe, eh, in the city? Oh, incredible. Look, I was in the city last week and everybody from the subway to MSG is wearing something Nix. And when the city beats like that, you know who misses us the most guys is Al Troutwig, who you know Kipper. He covered you when you're with the Rangers. Yes.

Al loved the Knicks more than anybody. And I remember when we had a Game 7 Eastern Conference final against Tampa Bay, Al was outside. He equally loved the Rangers the same way. And we came into the green room and he said, I don't understand why there's even anybody outside. How can't everybody just be watching this game right now? You know, that's the energy that Al brought.

So I think about Al a lot as we cover this. Nick's historic run. Babcock, though, guys. I'll tell you what, my first meeting, my first presentation was with the Leafs in 2014. It was before Clear Sites started. The Leafs were our very first client. And my very first presentation was Mike Babcock. It was Lou Lamarillo, Jacques LaMare, Jim Hiller, Jacques Karan, who was the goalie coach for the Devils during those amazing years.

They had DJ Smith. and Andrew Brewer like this was a really tough room and I remember being there for a couple hours guys it was supposed to be a 30 minute meeting because Babs kept asking more questions and at the end of the meeting he took me for a walk through the locker room

he brought me through the training room and showed me the kitchen this is 2014 this stuff was new to me the sophistication of what the Leafs were building at the time are you guys aware of their shooting room that's at the back of where their training tables are at the training facility. Have you been in that space? Yes.

You are? Yeah. So that was my first time seeing that, and it's to scale. It's the exact width of the blue line into the net. And guys are in there shooting and stuff, and we were talking about putting some of the clear sight lines into the ice, you know, showing where the funnel is, the eight-foot radius around the net, the slot. But you know what?

When I look back on it, he was really hard on me, but in a good way. For instance, if he had a question on the flight, he'd say to Jim Hiller, call Valley tomorrow, and I want to see all 65 chances that he claims are in transition rush against us this year. And Jim would later tell me, say, hey, I sat down with Babbs. We watched all 65. They check out, you're still employed. You know, like, it was, there was a lot of proof there in concept because at this time, we're manually tracking the game in a way it hadn't been tracked before.

And Babbs did buy into it. I remember him being, you know, very courteous. in his approach. I didn't have any bad experiences with them like you hear reported sometimes in the media. Yeah, I mean, that was kind of my experience too, Valley. The thing that kind of caught my eye

and you work with a lot of coaching staffs now so maybe you can let me know how common this is. But if Babs had a question, he just called someone immediately and he had a lot of questions, which I thought I have a lot of respect for people who continue to search for knowledge and he'd be like,

this team might trade us as Finnish D and he'd call up a guy in Finland. Be like, hey, what are you? know about this guy. It'd be a one minute call. And in Barney, you know what he has zero patience for? Somebody that doesn't have an opinion. Right. You can't land on the fence. You can't land on the fence. You know, and there's

a lot of that in this game. And I think that's BS. I remember one of my first scouting meetings and the scouts were saying, well, don't say this guy's never going to play. Just say he won't play until he's 28. And I'm like, I'm not going to be here in 10 years. Totally. You're watching.

You're watching, listening to Steve Alicat, analyst with the New York Rangers, CEO, clear site analytics. We'll keep an eye on the Babcock situation all throughout the week. In the meantime, we have a very big game for Carolina Hurricanes, Vegas Golden Knights, 8 p.m. on Sportsnet. Valley, obviously, game four,

I think if teams go up 3-1, that pretty much gives you a 91% chance to win the Stanley Cup. Just in terms of make or break tonight, How do you see it playing out here? Yeah, why don't we quickly go over what's happened so far? Okay. A lot of playoff series, guys, this goes way back.

This is something I've always really enjoyed doing is looking at a Stanley Cup final after it's been played. Even if the series is a little lopsided, score-wise, you'll see high-danger chances very close because it's two good teams, the two best, most likely going at it. So far in this series, there have been 26 high-danger chances, for the Vegas Golden Knights, they've scored nine times. Carolina's had 24.

They've scored eight times. Neck and neck. They go in one every three times depending on the goalie, but we're going to get to that later because Anderson is letting them in at a higher rate than heart. Mid-danger chances. Typically, these are the shots from the point, single screen, layered screen, deflections. They're not the highest danger in quality, but they still require a good save.

Vegas has had 18. they've scored three goals. Carolina's had 19. They've scored three goals. Neck and neck. The low danger shots, each team has allowed one, and that would actually be the Marner goal

from game three, the Hatrick goal. That was actually a low danger because it's a clear-sighted shot from the distance that it was. Vegas has had 31, and Carolina's had 36. Interesting on the period by period, though. Carolina's first period, they are dominating and they have a two two goals tied.

So they haven't taken advantage by scoring more, but they are dominating territorially and dominating in quality of chances. Vegas is dominating the second period. They've outscored Carolina seven to one. And then in the third period, it's even as far as scoring chances, but Carolina has an eight three advantage of scoring in the third period. So overall, this series, guys, it really does shape up for a six or seven gamer the way the first three have been played.

Bally, I'm curious to your thoughts and which goalie you would start if you're Carolina. Brandon Boosie, he actually has three streaks this year where he's won six or more games, 601-9-0-0-0-0, 3 streaks this season. So he can get hot. Would you make the switch to him? I am. I am. and I look at the evidence that I do have,

but I do go into it with a lot of caution as well because it's not a clear-cut decision. Decision hasn't been made yet publicly, but we're anticipating it's Bussie for a few reasons, and it's mostly going to reflect the play of Anderson so far. Frederick Anderson, I want to talk about the Mitch Marner goal, and I'm going to get back to Bussie. The Marner goal, guys, the Hattrick goal,

going back to the time that I was with the Leafs, I knew this was a conversation around him, which was on odd man rushes, he doesn't get the shot. He wasn't a great goalie safe percentage-wise off the open shot on an odd man if the puck carrier decided to shoot it. His low blocker was his biggest issue. So I went back to look at his time. He was with the Leafs. And at the time he was with the Leafs, he had a 729 safe percentage if the puck carrier shot it on an odd man rush. Now, Marners was a one-on-one, but it was distance-wise similar to what you'd see on an odd man when somebody elects to shoot it.

Do you want to hear something? This one's for Sammy. Tuka Rasked during the same time, he was the best save percentage in the NHL on those plays with a 900 save percentage. Well, that's nice, Valley. When I see these things come up, I think of you, Sammy. All right. So the next thing is, though, is let's talk about what Vezna-level goaltending looks like as far as the numbers go. It's one goal every 4.61 high danger chances. That's Vesna level stuff. That's what a

Vesna guy typically scores around. Now, if you have a goalie during a regular season that allows one every three and a half high danger chances, it works out to about 32 goals in difference during a season. So numbers sometimes when you move the decimals around, they don't look like a lot until you convert it over 82 games. And it's a lot. And in this case, 55 games. for the goalies. Now, the difference between Hart and Anderson, Anderson's allowing one goal every 3.2 high danger chances, and Carter Hart is one every 3.8,

which in the series guys, if we see a 55 high danger series, which is very typical for a playoff series that goes six or seven, we're seeing a difference of five goals right there. So if you switch the goalies, we would see a different outcome in the series. And it's a funny time where we are in hockey, because we can say that you don't need a Vezna level guy

to get yourself through the Stanley Cup playoffs and win, but it does make it tight when both guys are in the same tier. And I think that Carter Hart is a tier ahead of Anderson based on the last couple of seasons, but he's not that far ahead. It's not Schisturkin versus Anderson. So Bussie, I think that if you're looking at Bussie as the option, there's a few interesting things you have to look at

when you go to the pre-scout. So first of all, high danger, chances against. He had five really good saves before he allows the goal in overtime. So he went in and he did well. He's been 57 calendar days between starts. And I'm going to walk you through his safe percentage by month, guys. We're going to go backwards here from April, 876, in March 859, February 893, started the season the first two months, 916, 916. So that was that stretch that he had, that he had, I think, Borny, maybe you can help me out here.

It was the most wins to start a career, I think it was. Yeah, something, I don't remember exactly about it. It sounds right. Yeah, but he was hitting it hard. He was hitting it hard, but after the Olympic break, guys, Bussie is the fifth

worst performing goalie in the NHL. And, you know, you look at the names around him, Ascarov, she loves, Kemper. Bussie was right in that grouping. So it's not like he was playing great hockey. And now we're talking about Prescott. What does that mean to Vegas? What it means to Vegas is that Vegas has a very good low cycle team.

They're really good from below the goal line, specifically on the power play, getting it to slot or a cross slot. And that's where Bussie struggles the most. And the reason why he struggles the most. And this is where oftentimes when I'm talking to hockey people, I quickly turn the channel from the numbers that we're talking about here and say, just go watch the video. Go watch the video and figure out why he has a safe percentage.

that isn't very high when passes come from below the goal line to slot. What you're going to see tonight in this game is when the puck gets low, and I anticipate him starting, and I anticipate Vegas knowing this, because even if they didn't have our data, they would still look at all of the goals that he allowed in March, April, when he wasn't playing well. And I bring us up on your show a lot.

When goalies get wide, they get stuck, but they also get small. And you can imagine that what we're doing right now, as far as my own on the ice every day with the clear, collegiate goalies I'm training is we're looking at keeping a level playing when they move left to right laterally all times when they're skating because any inch that you lose upward, you lose explosively east to west as a goalie. Now, where Bussie has issue is when the puck gets low below the goal line, he gets really low. So his shoulders sag down and then he gets stuck when the pass gets made.

and so he's got about six to eight inches over his shoulders that you can go high on. But he also leaves the ice because he's trying to make up for that room as he's trying to get back to posture. And his safe percentage on these plays is at 873. That's league worst. Any one timer that you see in this game tonight that's on the same side of the ice, take a look at his feet. And I'm telling you that he's going to be eight to 12 inches wide, wider than he should be, which brings his shoulders eight to 12 inches wide.

12 inches down. And when the puck gets to the point, he's going to be low, not able to see through the screen, just like the goal that happened in overtime where it goes off the back wall because he doesn't see the puck coming through from the point because he's too wide too soon. Valley, let me ask you something. We can't crawl into Rod Brenda Moore's head, but this is two days in between Freddie's last start. When do you think from your experience of being a goalie, hanging out with goalies, having

relationships with head coach. When do you think Rod Brindamore would make up his mind on which goalie he would start? I would guess it would be after seeing the disallowed goal Mark Stone let in five hole that didn't resemble NHL goaltending at all to me. But what about you? What about you? When does he decide? Does he wake up the next day?

Does he need a day and a half? Clearly he hasn't said publicly. where he's leaning towards. It couldn't be up until like two hours, three hours before game time where he tells one of these guys, can it? No, no, no, no, no. Look, I think that I'm with you, Kipper, as soon as I sell, start with the stone comment.

That puck was a good eight inches off the ice. Like that didn't even go five hole. That went crotch, right? It was horrible. Yeah, it's just not, five hole usually is at the spot that we've talked about in the past, the triangle between the goalie's heel and his inside skate. Usually the snipers hit that spot.

That's the Austin Matthews spot. The one that Stone shoots it through him like that, that's always a first sign of, okay, was he ready? Is he on his toes? Does he have posture? Does he have timing? And I would say that he didn't have any of those three things. And those three things you need for the first three requirements of being a successful goalie.

Do you know what really set me off, though? It was his movement after saying. saves. You can tell if a goalie has pop. You can tell if they have explosive power. When you don't have your legs, guys, you lose your confidence. And I'm sure you feel the same way from recalling those plays in your D zone where you just don't have enough gas to get where you need to get to and you're not going to be explosive to get there. And I feel like when I'm looking at him right now, he's just not moving from one save, out of save, explosively, to start the next play. And when that's not able to happen, that's where breakdown happens.

And nobody is good enough to overcome that. When you don't have angle to start a sequence, you never recapture angle. And then you don't have patience. And again, I'm on the ice this morning. I'm explaining patience to a 14-year-old. And as I'm saying it, I'm thinking about, again, the Marner goal, the Hatrick goal. Anderson's off angle badly. He loses his net, so he's not able to have patience.

But patience essentially, guys, to set angle, it's Marner coming down the wing as a right-handed shot. And coming downhill, patience is allowing the righty to get ahead of you. And I'm talking about that little feeling of insecurity that short-sighted. is exposed for a split second. But understanding the puck still has to get delivered to the net, it still has to get off of Marner's stick, and then the time has to pass where it travels through space

and reaches the goaltender. That time right there is where patience meets elite goaltending, allowing the puck to come. Instead of jumping to space where you think the puck is going to get shot from, and then being late when it goes across the body. So, you know, there's a funny conversation there and there's a lot of noise around it. And I try to articulate as best as I can with goalies that when plays are coming out of the corner, let them get a little bit ahead of you and then take it away, specifically when they're on their forehand.

All right, Valley, let's take a look then at the other end of the ice. Have you liked Hart so far? Do you feel like he's done his job getting Vegas up to one? You know, he's done enough. But I'll tell you what, Borny, if the other goalie was a lot better. we'd be having a different conversation. Yep. That's really where I stand on it.

He hasn't, I think he's an 876, 877 in each of the three games. He's an 862 in game one, 846 in game 2 and an 879 in game 3. That typically doesn't cut the mustard, not at the highest level. And I'm actually a little bit surprised. I thought the first goal the other night, not sharp. It's a playoff of his pad that spits to the weak side. I thought the Taylor Hall goal was through heart. He was there, but it went through his seven hole.

Again, you need a seal there, especially when you're up for nothing. The key to closing a game out for a goalie, mindset-wise, is don't give him the first one. You know, you have a crappy first one, and then it usually fuels some momentum the other way. Not enough battle even on goal number four for me. but he was a 930 save percentage in April before we got into the playoffs. He started slowly against Utah. He had a strong series over six games in Anaheim. I think that he's got to get back to at least that level.

Or this could go seven games. But if there's a better goalie in Vegas's net right now, again, this conversation is different. It may be a three-nothing series lead right now for Vegas. Okay, Valley, got to ask you, but I'm going to bring my voice really down low because it's a very sensitive topic here. But I don't... Where's he going, Borny? I'm afraid to find out.

Mitch Marner, okay? And you're perfect because you've got your objective and no skin in the game. But like... Has he been playing good? Yeah, the production. The production. We're going to go to the expert.

Has he been doing good? What do the numbers say in terms of, What may have you, they've shown in the past? What is showing now? Are they different? Are they the same? What is your CEO clear sight telling us? Okay.

I want to start with a different conversation that's going to get me there. Do you guys remember when you had Chris Verstieg on? And he said, when we won our cups in Chicago, Patrick Kane took a little bit less and we all got a little bit more. And he said, something to the effect of if you look over time, you're going to see there's a pattern where the star players do a little less in the regular season and you get a lot more in the postseason. And I still have my notes from, again, listening to your show, having him on and talking about that. And I went and looked at Sid. I looked at McKinnon, who had 88 points the year that they won the Stanley Cup in 22. He had 127 points this year.

I looked at all the big guys and they all did. He was right. For Stieg was right. The top guys, including Patrick Kane that he mentioned on your show, all had their low marks as far as career point years and then had massive outcomes, including Stanley Cup team success. Doesn't that line up with where Marner is this year? Doesn't have his best year offensively, but he's got his best stuff right now.

And he also has the supporting cast. I think the biggest difference is that he's playing with the players that are players. I mean, these guys are all blood and guts-type attitude players. So the intangibles, as difficult as they are to measure, we can certainly have a strong correlation there. Now, Marner in 1819, he was 21 years old. It was his first playoffs where he was a big point performing guy because he had 94 points that year. So he would have been, you know, in that conversation of breakthrough offensive guys.

And I went back to that point because that's where he started to have an impact. Again, he's 21 years old. and in primary assists as far as what do you want from him at that point it wasn't what i saw with panarin i'll just bring it into my own experience with what i covered with the rangers i heard from an n-h-l coach one that had coached panarin before he arrived he said good luck with him he has no clue how to play in the playoffs and i thought that that was harsh but over time I saw that to be a reality. And if I'm going to be objective about Marner

over the first five of his Maple Leaf seasons in the postseason, he was number one or two every single year in creating offense for his teammates. But as I once told you, the Scott Gomez conversation, how can I get up to line number two off of line four if the guys I'm passing to aren't scoring? And that's a part of it.

You know, there was a snake-bitten group there the primary assist were always in the negative, and he was at the same rate of his regular season success, getting his teammates into scoring play. However, his second to last and his very last and final playoffs, where his expected goals really dropped in the 23-24 playoff, his expected goals, meaning he wasn't getting inside, he wasn't getting breakaways, he wasn't getting any grade A's.

He was 15th on the team that year. So he definitely took a lot of the heat, I think, for the easy stuff, which you don't see as clearly sometimes as the passing and playmaking as you do the non-threatening goal scoring opportunities. And that's what you saw in his final two playoff appearances as a leaf. And I think he took a lot of heat for that. But over the course of his, what do I have here? Six years that I looked at today, he was a strong playoff performer, just needed bigger horses around him. There you go. Do we have time for the grill?

Grill marks. Are we still grilling? Guys, we have to. We have to make time, Sammy. All right. Okay, let's grill. Let's grill. Let's grow.

Let's go. Okay. Kipper, what a week you had last week. 58 points, Borny 55, McKee, 49. All right. What team in the playoffs, we're just going to talk about this three game series that we've seen so far? What team during this series has had the most breakaways? is it Vegas or Carolina?

I'll take Carolina. Oh, Carolina, definitely. I got to make up some space here, so I'll go Vegas. Vegas. How many? Yes, seven. I thought Carolina had seven and one game. They had three.

Okay. All right. There we go. More east to west plays, the slot line play that I always talk about, across the ice. We've got Carolina or Vegas. Who has had more slot line passes in the series so far? Is it five on five or all strengths?

All strengths, all situations. I'll take Vegas. I'll take Carolina. Who's leading the points again? Yep. I'm going to go. Would you take it on? Yeah.

Carolina. Oh, yeah. There we go. Gaining on you, right? I'm just going on. Carolina. 9-7 and slot line, which is really big because Vegas only allowed five in the entire Colorado series. Okay, what team has more screens in this series, Carolina or Vegas?

And now this is a really close one. It's nine, eight, so it's not going to be an easy guess. Go ahead, Kip. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Sammy's turning to go through. No, I'll be my guess. Carolina.

I'll go to Carolina Carolina. Carolina. All right, Kemp, you game the system. It's Carolina. Oh, Sammy. Born at night, buddy, not last night. Oh, you guys are a riot.

I did gain some points here, though. It was like hanging out with three brothers over there. Hey, did I not see King Henrik Courtside last night? Oh, yeah. I got a good one for you. Where were you? Where were you?

My wife and I are watching it downstairs, right? And underneath the basket, my wife says, hey, there's Teresa. It was Hendricks-Wy. I'm like, yeah, that is Teresa. So I text, Hank. I go, hey, man, I just saw Teresa at the game on TV. He goes, hey, I'm there, too. Now, those tickets under the basket for that game,

they were probably 100 bucks, 120 bucks, you think? Yeah, getting there. How about $100,000 for floor? seats last thing. $100,000. Yes. For a loss. Now, Henrik is an ambassador.

He gets those for free. Oh, there you go. And what are you? What are you? Honorary ambassador. He made you get the car up at the front door. That's right.

All right. All right, vali, thanks, pal. Thanks, bud. All right. See you guys. Bye-bye. Steve Alicat, everybody. A hundred thousand dollars.

Yeah, yeah. It's out of control. It's out of control. You know, and did you hear a lot of Knicks fans complaining, like, that environment sucked. It wasn't our fans, right? Like, you can, if the Leafs ever got to a cup final. It was just, like, worldwide money coming in. It was the Met Gala.

It wasn't, you know, a sporting event. It was who has money and can show up. Did you watch the game? Yeah. I thought towards the end of the second quarter there when the Knicks made that run to go ahead, the crowd pops were pretty good. cheering for the next. They were pretty loud.

The president who made everybody shut down their whole lives, falling asleep's a tough one. Got the loudest crowd pops, though. The one from Bryant Park outside was very vocal. Having them falls busy. He's just got to stay awake. He's tired. You just got to stay awake for the game, brother.

Can't call the guy sleepy Joe that fall asleep at Nick's game three. Stop. It's a top visual. It's game time presented by Bet365. An official partner of the NHL. Must be 19 plus on terror only. Please play responsibly. Let's see here.

I don't know if there's a future bet on here with a flatty. You'll get to 10 home runs this year, but let's see if I can find that one. Anyways, the game tonight, interesting, pretty close on the money line here. Vegas, as in Bet365, is anticipating a close game here. Minus 115 on the money line for Carolina, minus 105 for the Vegas Golden Knights. Carolina favorites in Vegas? How is that possible? Because they are a good team.

They're in the final, and if they lose this, they're done. Like it's the desperation factor that they have to sort of factor in here. I, yeah. The total is. The biggest decided that's a good. Total here is five and a half. So, I mean, the way this series is gone, that could happen in the first period. But the way hockey goes, this game could also be one-nothing.

It's such a hard, the totals are really hard at this point. They got to go bussy in my opinion. I have to go bust. I don't know that they're going to. But if they do, that is an all-time story. Like, they put him in, he was red-hot. Freddie was just tailing off or? just the mere fact that he hasn't stepped up in two days on Anderson tells me they're going to bussey.

Yeah, if he had to come out and be like, he's our guy. He's started. He has to, if you're going to surprise us, if you're going to surprise us with Frederick Anderson again tonight, don't you want to have him go in with a feeling of, hey, he said it, I'm their guy and build off of that? I don't like the idea that because Bussie doesn't know, I saw some quote that he still wasn't sure as of yesterday or whatever. They must be waiting to see how Freddie feels, which I don't love. No, but to the opposite is if it is Bussy,

give him today. Don't let him sleep on starting. You're going. Rookie, never done it before. I think even the mere fact that he came in cold last game, helped him. So he's at, he's just on high alert. He's on adrenaline.

And even though he's coming off the bench, he almost gave him the edge on a tired Mitch Martyr. I thought Mitch Marner rushed into the penalty shot. He needed to slow it down. Well, he didn't know it was him. So. He didn't know it was bussy. And I love a long shot here.

Raden McNabb has been an ultimate warrior for the Golden Knights. He had two points in the game, in the win in game three. Give me a Braden McNab goal tonight at 20 to 1 as a long shot. Was McNabb there when they won the first one he was? He was, he was one of the first misfits. That was game time presented by Bet365,

an official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus. Ontario only, please play responsibly. And a reminder, this hour of Real Kipperman Born is brought to you by Bed 365. What's interesting is that Colossar was there from day one, too, but he spent three years in the American League, so he didn't win the first cup, but he was in the org. He's a great. fourth liner. He is perfect.

I know we do leaf stuff all the time, but I was thinking about Stephen Lawrence today. And I was like, it'd be nice if you had, like, Colisard to be is Lawrence, plus he's willing to get in your face and say, he's mean. He's mean, Lawrence. He's like mean Lorenz. Can we, this is the nicest guy in the league. Can we get a meaner version? We can't need to do a deep

dive how Lawrence got three years. Great guy, but man. Anyways. Okay, we'll take a quick break. When we return, an NHL signing that we can mention, Sammy, you want your Marley Minute at all? Are you good? We have an opponent.

I also want to talk about Bruce Cassidy a little bit. So we'll do that on their side. All right. And more on the Stanley Cup final as we get set for game four tonight, 8 p.m. on Sportsnet. Plenty more. Don't go away. Everything you need to know about the Blue Jays, Blair and Barker.

Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back in studio, Nick Kiprios, Justin Borns. Sammy McKee, what do you got for, Sammy? Time now for the Accura Performance Matchup, the 2026 Accura MDX, precisely premium. So, Stanley Cup Final, game four, Carolina at Vegas, 8 p.m. tonight on SportsC and CBC, pregame coverage, with the usual crew starting at 7.30. A few things for tonight.

Pretty big one for Carolina, obviously. Teams that take a 3-1 series lead in a best-of-seven Stanley Cup final own an all-time record. of 38 and 1. 97% 10% 1 when starting on the road. The only team to overcome a 3-1 series deficit in the finals is the 1942 Toronto Maple Leafs. And who can forget that? Oh, those guys. The Golden Knights, 53 goals in 13 games played are averaging 4.08 goals per game all time in the Stanley Cup final,

which is the second best rate amongst all teams behind the. The Islanders who were 4.1, 4.13, 99 goals in 24 games played. It's just really hard to see anyone being anything different than they've been so far. Like Ajo, Spachnikov, Jarvis. I don't believe they're just going to have a game where they two and two each, you know? Like it's going to be stanky and Blake and Hall and from the D and stall. Like I just can't see it being the other guy. Yeah.

Sebastian Ajo, I mean, he was better. It was a lot better, which I don't know what that means. It could be just one assist, one goal tonight, but, you know. Even strength points in the Stanley Cup playoffs. Completely. Oh. Yeah, that's. That doesn't seem like enough.

No, it's not. He's on the first line. Yeah, it seems like that should be a lot higher. He should have a game. He's going to get ripped in Carolina. Oh, yeah, the one guy down there. Trip Tracy's going to be all over. It's like, oh, yeah, what, the accountability.

He's done. We got to do it. We got to pick up the slag. We'll get them next year. Yeah. Yeah. What are you guys going to change? Nothing because no one, it doesn't matter.

Wow. Well, also, we win the division every year and we win playoff rounds every year. So. Goofy like us. One last thing, Jordan Stahl can become the fourth player in the expansion era to score a goal in each of the first four games of the Stanley Cup final. The others are Mike Bossy, Steve Payne, Johnny Bucic in 1970 with the Bruins. So that's pretty good. I'll throw you another nugget.

Yep. Most goals in a Stanley Cup playoffs by Carolina Hurricane, 12. Stanky's got 10. He could catch his coach. Really? Did I say Brindamore? I forget what I said. Brindamore is 12.

Yeah. Brindamore is 12. Stanky's got 10. So he's chasing down. Thank you. Let's do the stanky leg. That was the Accura performance matchup, the 2026, Accura MDX, precisely premium. All right.

I got a question for you, Kipp, and Borny. So, Babcock, to Edmonton, Peter Lavio Lett to LA Bruce Cassidy to Where? Parts unknown. Toronto Unemployment for a year?

I think it's such a challenge now for anyone to look at the Toronto Maple Leafs More so than probably any other Team obviously that's out there That's looking. I don't know. I mean, what are they? What message are you getting? is it clear cut, we have to win now?

I just really want someone like Cassidy. I like the Lavial idea. And I'll just say it because the people who are hiring him have not been around the league for the last few years. I want a known hockey person who's been coaching hockey teams, has the lay of the league, is a real pro. I don't think it's the right time for a test run on someone who has no experience.

It's not the right environment for that right now. I just, I mean, so neither of you answered my question, but Bruce Cassidy? Bruce Cassidy, yes. Where is he going to end up? It sounds like maybe Cassidy doesn't want Toronto. Is that why that is? My understanding is it's a Vegas situation

that will be looked at after the season is over. So it's just drag your feet until you find out of a Cassidy. Do you think the Gruden thing to do, the Marleys are still going? It's pretty clear cut. We have your rights. We're paying you. We're paying you to stay home now, not find another job. That's what the message to Cassidy is.

Right, but then so it's just vindictive? It's just screw you. I don't know if it's vindictive or let us try to win a Stanley Cup and we'll get back to you. It's so ridiculous. I mean, so hard to go, yeah, go ahead. Is it, though? Call over. Is it ridiculous?

Because a team that is their direct competitor within their division was actively trying to hire him. They said no. And they're like, we're not waiting any longer. We're going to hire somebody else. Like, they think Bruce Cassie's still a good coach. It wasn't the fit for the room. Like, their petulance made it so that the Oilers did not hire it. But that's over now, right?

The divisional teams have coaches now. For sure. So now what it, now it's like. That angle's gone unless they say okay today. If the Leafs come calling, I don't know if it's a different. situation. Maybe they're just going to stick to when the finals are over, but to me it just feels like... Cassidy's not

pleased, right? He went on chicklets and talked about it, so... I don't know, man. Yeah, he's not, but there's nothing he can do. No. Except collect the paycheck. Correct. There's nothing he has, nothing he can do, but that doesn't mean it's fair. Life isn't fair.

Okay. Life isn't fair. Yeah. Well, if I'm on Cassidy, the not loving the pitch of life isn't fair. Too bad, so sad. Yeah. Signing, six-year deal? Michael McCarran.

A lot of money. Well, a lot of years, a lot of term, right? 20 million, almost $20 million for six years. It's a lot of years, but... I guess my concern is he's not a young man. Is he 30? 31? Got to be. He was in the American League when I was around there. I was like Houdon, who signed two and a half years. 31.

What would Houdon be looking at if he was... Yeah. If he was Bobby McMahon right now. I guess for McCarron, it's like, who are you outbidding for six years? I guess to keep him from going to UFA where you think someone would give him 4 million years or something?

He would have got 25 maybe from Toronto. Oh, McCarron? What do you think? Oh, yeah. Toronto wanted him? But he's a beast. Where are you going to find these guys? I think he's a good player.

I would have him on my team in a heartbeat. And he hits like a truck. He's big. He can fight. Come on. Yeah, he's mean. He's that bottom six. Six years is just a lot.

But I mean, they know it's a lot. Minnesota's like, yeah, we know. We know it's a lot. But that's what we had to do to get him. So I guess you got to do what you got to do. I actually think Bill Garin deserves a little bit more credit than he gets for like, you know, you hear Dylan Larkin wants to go play in Minnesota. Like how reason.

I don't remember anyone ever saying they wanted to go play in Minnesota until, you know, a lot of GMs would look to Caprizo who wanted 17 million and said, we're not doing that. But he said, yeah, we got to have good guy. I don't got Hughes. It might take a while here to get this thing traded. For Larkin. Yeah, for Dylan Larkin.

They need something back of significance. They can't start over again with 18-year-old prospects or first rounders. I think he's going to have to open it up. I know the three teams are out there. The one idea I liked, I heard Ray Ferraro say, was, all right, he wants to go to Florida. let's say you get Lundell and the ninth overall pick or something like that, which you don't like, but you flip the ninth.

The ninth, you're immediately trading the ninth for whatever. Everyone says this draft is nine guys great and then sort of tails off. So if you're Lundell and... Where are you better, like getting rid of Lundell? I'm sorry, but I love that player. Lundell more than Larkin? Yes. Oh, wow.

But in the proper slot, in the role, in the slot, you've got Barker, Benet and Lundel. Where do you think you're better with Barkov, Bennett, and then Larkin? With his five games playoff career total in 10 years. Yeah, I don't put stock in that. I don't think if Lundell was on Detroit

all this time they'd been in playoffs, you know? It just doesn't have the cachet, though. He just doesn't have the cachet to come in. I don't want to argue about Lundell, because Lundell's awesome. Listen, the whole thing, again, stinks. Because Dylan Larkin, like if Lundell is a very popular guy in the room, there's not going to be a lot of people overly thrilled that Lundell has to leave for Larkin. Yeah.

You know, it puts some people in a bad spot there. It's a bad spot. Marley's playing the Chicago Wolves starting on Friday, June 12th at 8 p.m. Actaumov. Ryan Suzuki scored the winner for Chicago to send them to the final. Nick's brother. Good for Danford, by the way. Yeah.

These are great games for him to next year be ready. Thanks to Steve Aliquette. Does a great job on Tuesdays for us. Game four, Carolina Hurricanes, Vegas Golden Knights, mere hours away on Sportsnet. If you get a chance, give us a rating and review.

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