Real Kyper & Bourne - Vally's View: Cats Get Under Oilers' Skin(ner)

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with a look back on the Panthers' 6-1 win over the Oilers in Game 3 of the Stanley Cup Final before welcoming in MSG analyst and CEO of Clear Sight Analytics Steve Valiquette (8:13). Vally breaks down the Cup Final goalie battle by the numbers, why the Oilers should turn to Calvin Pickard in Game 4, Sergei Bobrovsky's elite speed in the crease and much more! Later, Nick, Justin, and Sam discuss the Oilers' response to Florida's physicality, what adjustments they need to make for Game 4, and the rapid rise of Brad Marchand's free-agent stock.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Here we go once again, fastest hour in hockey, the Real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590 The Fan, Sportsnet 960 in Calgary, Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, and Sportsnet Plus. Jake the Snake Schultz, Austin Mackey, Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. As always, this hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet 365. Well, Sammy. Oh, yes?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right away to you. What? What did I do wrong? Well, you predict. Your pick's wrong. The Oylers in five. Yeah, I was wrong. You're done.

That's shocking development here. Next survivor, you're off the show. You now have to leave. Maybe you should have flipped those predictions. What do you mean? Panthers in five. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, dramatic. Maybe you should have flipped them. I don't know.

In a few minutes, we'll welcome in Steve Alliquette, analyst for the New York Rangers, MSG, CEO of ClearSight Analytics. I'm sure he's got wonderful numbers to crunch for us and what they mean. And once again, Skinner either is great or he's given up a ton of goals. We'll get into that a little later. First, let me get your overall feel about

not just the Oilers losing, but how they lost. Let's start with you, JB. Well, I've got two thoughts on this. The first is that last year in the Stanley Cup final, the Oilers took it to Florida twice like this, and Florida won the Stanley Cup. So I'm saying it's not a death sentence is the first point I'll make.

The second point is this Florida team, the way that we're all holding Connor McDavid in high regard and saying this is enjoy Watching his prime. I think we need to enjoy watching the best playoff team of the past However, many years the decade at least they are built but it all for this. I'll go further to you Okay, I'm older than you. Yeah, I do remember They are built for this. I'll go further to you, okay? I'm older than you. I do remember the Montreal Canadiens in the 70s, and then in the 80s it was the Oilers and the Islanders,

your dad's Islanders, Clark's Islanders. I'm not saying that I'm ready to compare this Florida team up against those, but I'd put them up with any other team that has won a Stanley Cup outside of the three I just mentioned. Wow. Okay.

Hawks? Yes. Yes, Hawks. Yes, Pittsburgh. My Rangers in 94 Montreal go go anywhere you want. Yeah, I am watching a Florida Panther team that could win I believe at any time in any era now could they have gone toe-to-toe with Trotty and bossy's Islanders and pod vans. I don't know. I mean, I'd have to go into a deeper dive, but I love it.

I don't think you could ever figure it out. I love this Florida Panther team because they can beat you so many ways. Yeah, I remember I've said on this show too, Brian Burke's thing about, you know, if you play four rounds, you're gonna have to play four different ways, whether it's heavy or fast or skilled or whatever it may be.

And they seem to be able to do it any different way. I think, you know, again, I'm not saying that they're unbeatable, but what I am saying is when they're on, when they play their game, it's incredible to watch. Like this is the, they have now beat every team they've played in the playoffs by four goals in a single game in a series. Like there's been a game where the other team just can't handle them. They've scored six plus goals six times in the playoffs,

five plus eight of the last 11 games. Five goals, eight of the last 11 games in the Stanley Cup playoffs. And their whole thing, GMs are gonna watch them and go, we gotta be tougher. It's like, no man, they're not just tough. Can I tell you something that when I think of this Florida Panther team, I don't about them being tougher there than their opponent. I

Don't think about anything the number one thing and I've I've said this to you before is They pass the puck better than any team I've seen yeah in the last 20 years They they move the puck. It's not that Sam Bennett's bumping goalies or They trash talk or they find a way to hurt you or they're just tougher meat No They pass the puck better than any team and I include that Oilers. I include Carolina include the Maple Leafs Nobody when they're when they're hitting their high note They move it like like the Red Army Russians, man.

I'm telling you, they can move it east to west and they can make direct passes, they can rim it around. They could string five passes together before you can blink. Yeah, I mean. And it is fun to watch. That Ekblad goal last night where they pass it into the bumper, slip it to him back door It was globetrotters. It was a cherry on top for that game

you know the The fact that they're doing all this on top of being good defensively and being this physical whatever I I am working on an article right now that'll probably come up tomorrow on what we're talking about here that When this team is on like what what are GMs going to look at this team and take away from it? And I think a lot of lesser GMs are going to go, oh, they're physical, they're mean, whatever. I think that's what some teams are going to do. But their best players are 200 feet players, Barkov, Reinhardt,

these guys, you know, Marshaan, go through the list. They play the whole ice. They're physical. They use each other. It really is. I'm not saying the series is over. I'm saying when that team is on it is something to behold You know what you're saying is when they're on they are unbeatable Yeah, that's what you're saying last night made me feel a lot better about game 7 with the Leafs Yeah, you know my oh they can do that to the Oilers to a that's that's enjoyable

I enjoyed that I you know that, as a selfishly fan, it made me feel a little bit better. Yeah. Just to add to your point is that what teams really need to understand when they watch Florida is that, and just to add to your point, that they could start with Barkov

and they can work their way down to the fourth line. And the gap between one and four is as narrow as anything you'll find. Whereas when you go to- I'd argue one and three. Okay. Like Gajdjiewicz, Greer, Osik. No, no, no, no, no. Okay, they're not as talented,

but that fourth line, they come at you. Like it's relentless. From one to four, the four check, the time and space that they take away from you is relentless. It keeps coming. And we cover the Leafs as close as anybody out there and that's not the Leafs.

The drop off between one, two, three and four is significant. You dropped Kelly Yarncroc onto that Florida team. Last night, you go through Oilers one to four and the drop off was significant by the time you got to Kaepernick and Brown and those guys can come back and play well again. But the gap between the lines last night for Edmonton and the drop off of energy and push back and all of it night and day compared to Florida. We gotta get a valley, but I will say, I have to step in and be the one to say this,

being what, $20 million over the cap helps your death. And taxes, right? No, no, no, no, no, but like, the Leafs were, what were they? Go taxes too, Sammy. You're on a roll. They were barely over the cap, so like, yeah, they're worse guys are worse

because they're not making as much. You know what? That's not a bad point. It's a fair point. And one worth noting. But Gary would scream at me if I dare bring that up. It sounds like the next CBA, there will be some sort of playoff cap. Anyways, let's go to Steve Alicat, who can tell us all the numbers on state taxes and

and overage and what else? What other issues you have, Sammy? You know what, may I jump in here guys? They've changed the culture there and that's why it's attractive. Can I tell you a quick story? It's funny, Sammy, but this wasn't always the case, right? Steve Montador, my best friend growing up,

he was about to sign with the Florida Panthers. This is when things were always going sideways in Florida, probably around I guess oh 809 ish and he turned down a really nice deal. It was something like 3 million dollars times 3 years and he was going to go to free agency. He went mountain biking and British Columbia went into a tree fractured his arm and then called

his agent, hey, we'll take that contract. So like, I remember Monty saying to me like, dude, I hated it there. Not that I didn't like Florida, but it didn't feel like hockey. They didn't have a culture at that time. They didn't have anything that was going to get you excited about having an opportunity to win like they do now. So Sammy, the other side of the conversation is they've created a very desirable place to play hockey

and at the highest level. I fully understand that, but they are $20 million over the cap. So that helps, that helps. So you think this can be true. Then the number one question going into the series next game is who the Edmonton Oilers should start net. But before we go there, just give us your evaluation so far of Bobroski versus Skinner

because we know that last year, game seven, it was just Bobroski being that one save better. I could still see the game winning goal that Reinhardt scored last year that I didn't like. But are the Oilers getting out goalied again in this series? Yeah. And you know what it is. Did they gamble?

Did they gamble of going back to Skinner again? Yeah We'll get there. Okay, let's let's let's get there together. Okay Yeah, let's get there together so the first thing I wanted to look at was When goalies are called upon to make a big save in a Stanley Cup final over the last five years Are they able to do it and does it matter when you're looking at the winning goalie

versus the losing goalie in that series? Okay, I'm not gonna go all the way back, but I'm telling you it's there and it's pretty fascinating. It's typically about one goal every five high danger chances. So you can imagine a two-on-one, a breakaway, those screen deflections that are difficult

The Stanley Cup winning goalies are stopping them at a high rate I'll run you through a couple because I thought this was interesting Bobrovsky the year they lost three years ago to Vegas. He was giving up one goal every 2.3 high danger chances in the final in the same series that Aiden Hill was only allowing one goal every five. So that was the real separator in that series. Aiden Hill made the bigger of the saves. Now you go back to last year, Edmonton outscored Florida in the final series, 23-18 over the seven games. Now last season Skinner had 41 high danger chances in that series. He only allowed nine goals. So I think this is why Florida, you know, seemingly better team than Edmonton going into the season.

If Edmonton's saying to themselves, we can strengthen ourselves in other places, we'll be okay in net if we can just hedge that Skinner will do what he did last year Which which is a solid series nine high danger goals against on 41 is one every four point five Which means you can say again evaluating Skinner. Is he good enough? That's the only thing we need to have happen. He has to operate around three and a half to four and a half He did it already. Let's lean on him for this year. And I think that's why they gambled on it. Go to this year though.

Skinner has faced 25 high danger chances over the three games. He's allowed 13 goals on those 25. That's a 480 safe percentage. It's one goal every 1.9. So Stanley Cup winning goaltending is between four and five and you're only getting well you're getting one goal every 1.9. You're in trouble.

Bobrovsky comparatively one goal every five so far in the Stanley Cup finals. So yes, are they getting goalied? They are because Bobrovsky is overplaying where he should be and Skinner is significantly underplaying where he should be. All the while, Edmonton has more high danger chances over three games than Florida does. Just looking at goalies like apples to apples with the goalies. Do you believe that game by game or I guess series long momentum exists or is it kind of like fresh start for Skinner next game? We've seen him in these games be good in other situations. You never know what you're going to get. Are your numbers jeopardizing a start for him next game? They are

because of the way it looks. You know, like go, go from the goals last night from five all the way up to one and goal number five, like nurse is full of holes on that one. It's the PK goal. But you look at the east to west and Florida has a book on him right now. They know that when the puck is low, he's going to be in a reverse. And to me, Skinner, if it was me, I wouldn't be down in a reverse there because he doesn't move well enough out of it The puck goes east to west and it's 23 east to west chances faced in the playoffs nine goals against

You know, that's a big number the breakaway goal is goal number four and when Bennett scores that one I'm looking to myself and I'm like geez that, that looks like he could have done anything in score. You know, like he looked relatively easy to beat. I looked up his numbers on breakaways and so far in the postseason, Skinner's faced 14 breakaways. He's allowed eight goals, guys. One every 1.7.

That's not a number you can win with. You need momentum changing saves and you're not getting breakaway saves. It's gonna hurt you. So east to west, breakaways. Goal number two I didn't like because of positioning. That's the Verhege goal. You know, when you look at positioning,

and I think I mentioned this last week, he's gotta back up in his crease a little bit. He's out too far for his lack of mobility. So when the puck ends up on Verhage stick, Verhage looks up and he sees a goalie that's not there that should be there. And the angles off his depth is off and his squareness is off. And guys, you just can't make a save that way. You're just you're sideways in your net and short side high is exposed. So what I

think he needs is a reset. We've seen him reset well. A reset would mean miss a game. If it doesn't work out, you're still going back to Edmonton. You can steal one there, steal one back in Florida, and you might be in a position to get to a game seven again. But I think that right now, he's lost his way a little bit. The pressure is so overwhelming. It's so overwhelming. And I think that right now, if you go to Pickard, you know, he can play that way as far as anti-up

and you can rally behind him. But I think that's their only opportunity. Give Skinner a rest here to take a deep breath. What'd you think of when they pulled him? Yeah, I know the guys on the panel were talking about it in between periods and I think it was Kelly Rudy that said, I'd leave him in there to battle. But are you still in it?

Are you still in it at four? I'm like two or three in that game. I had to be like, okay, them after 40 minutes. Would you have pulled them and not get to that next goal? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Full body of work.

Yes. He hasn't had a great series. It's almost like Skinner is one of those guys. Like when you see this here, guys, on his belly at the hash mark, now the first goal of the game, there's the Verhegan. I saw it though Valley. I know but he was way off for me. Like he didn't have angle He didn't have squareness. He was deep. You're not gonna get a save there But again the first goal it's it's there's a lot there and it's a broken play But he's all over the place and it's the panic button is being hit when a goalie

Has a game that they're not happy with it's the panic button is being hit when a goalie has a game that they're not happy with. It's mostly because they abandoned their game, their style. They didn't play with their stuff. And as soon as he chases outside the post like that, that's not the way he wants to play. He knows it. And that would, that would really infuriate him because, you know, look, I I didn't play my game. There's so much pressure. I tell you a quick story. All right, so it's 2009 we are up 3 games to one against Washington and we are handing them the series because we were

about to anyway because towards throws the water bottle into the stands and get suspended for a game. Now that hurt everybody. And I remember saying to my wife, you know what? We're up three to one right now, but it doesn't feel like it because that's just how well Hank is playing at this point. So now Torz is not our coach behind the bench because of the incident. And I go into game five, halfway through the game,

I finish it, I go through game, I go through at halfway point of game six and I finish it. And now we're playing game seven in Washington. And you'll get a kick out of this Kipper because it's Rammer, our trainer. And Jim Ramsey comes up to me, Jim Ramsey comes up to me before probably 30 seconds before warmups. I just about put my helmet on and he goes Valley come over here And he opens up the training room at crack and he goes Hank's not good. You're playing and I was like, whoa Rammer, you know, like are you serious? Like I might have just crap my pants and he goes I'm gonna go tell torts

I'm like whoa before you tell torts at least see if you can find Benny Our goalie coach and he finds Benny Benny, brings him in, talks. Like Hank was just going through it. I mean, he was like Denny Lemieux, because he, you know, we shouldn't have been at 3-1, and then he was getting torched in five and six, and now all of a sudden I'm going in. And finally Rambert comes back and he says,

Valley, Hank's gonna try to warm up. And we go into warm up, and I'm telling you, he doesn't even touch a puck. Like, it just wasn't going well. And I know Hank better than anybody at this point. I'm like, I'm probably playing tonight. Yeah. Rammer says again, Valley, be ready.

I don't know if you noticed, but he wasn't looking too good in warmups. I was like, yeah, no, no, you know. Yeah, I noticed. Of course I saw that, Rammer, thanks, tips. So anyways, we go into the second period. We're losing one-nothing in the second period on a flutter We end up tying it one one

There's a wrist shot at the end of the third period that goes over Hank shoulder We end up losing this game two to one It was actually Fedorov from distance and I never forget it But I get on the plate afterwards and go over and Chris Dury come over they're like Valley Would you think about that goal? Don't you think Hank should have had it? And I'm like, look at these guys, like, do you have any idea what I've been through?

You know? You know? Like, you know? The emotional roller coaster is heavy. No, but it's like, you know, you get so banged up mentally, physically. Hank was just, he was, carried our team for probably 30 games to get there in the first place, overwhelmed in the first round series.

And you don't know, I'm just saying, if you've seen the best guys go through it the way I have in a lot of cases, I've seen Roberto and Rick DiPietro and I've talked to you about Jason LaBarber. I've seen these guys manage it and it can be just so heavy. I just think that at this stage, you know what you do with Skinner? You bring them in, and if you're the coach, you bring them in, you say, Stu, how you feeling? Do you think you're all right for the next game?

And if he hesitates for a split second, you know he's not OK. You need to look at him in the eye that way. And I've told you guys stories of being in the coaching room, where we bring a guy in and say, hey, you're playing against Martin. tomorrow and they say well you said I only had to play Friday night yeah you know like you okay guess what you're not playing yeah you changed their minds wow you need to know and mentally I'm just trying to explain to you how hard it can be and what it can do to the best you're watching and listening to Steve Alliquette, analyst for MSG, CEO of ClearSight Analytics. So you can speak of this playing the position, but all of this talk about Bennett and Florida

bumping the goalie, did it get to the point where it, it maybe, I don't know, just absorbed them a little bit too much could Could that be part of it? Like I'm watching and it's just not skinner Bob's gotten into it too where it's like It's looking like a soccer game with some of these guys trying to draw penalties and I think it's it's brutal But could this have just overplayed its hand in Skinner a little bit? The constant talk about bumping of a goalie? I don't, you know what, Kipra, it doesn't bother anybody when they're in the game. It really doesn't. Geez, you know, I probably shouldn't tell this story, but I would. We like it when you do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the OHL, in the OHL, I was playing against this kid named Chris George. He was like 6'6", just nasty, 250 minutes, playing for Barry at the time. And I came under him and hit him in the undercarriage, and he went down, and I heard from his teammates after the game, he wants to kill me. He physically wants to kill me because he was puking after the game

because I hit him in the nuts so hard. And I never did that again. I didn't do it again. Now I sort of did it because I knew I wasn't going to play against him again. Very safe on the bench. Smart man. You know, but like I remember seeing him.

It's what's that bar in London? Jacks. I see him in the summertime at Jacks and man, I think he's coming for me. I'm like, I'm just getting ready to fight him. Like, oh great, now I gotta fight George. I'm gonna get the snot beat out of me. And he comes up to me, he's ready to say something.

I just handed him my beer. I'm like, I'm sorry, man. You know, like. No hard feelings. But I'm telling you, I did not do that ever again. I apologize to him. Chris, if you're listening, man, I really apologize for that.

And you know, you just, in the back of your mind as a goalie, you don't go there because it can go past the line where it interferes with your focus. And look, Bob, when I watch Bob play right now, I'm very impressed with how quickly he sets his feet and how active he gets out of his crease like we're talking about the reverse there from Stu coming out slow I would advise to don't don't

use that move buddy honestly just stay on your feet the whole time and whereas with Bob I'm watching him force out said his feet in the white paint and be solid and he's forcing a lot of shots wide because of it and he's so big like you see that save right there. I know that not everybody can see it, but it's a save that Bob misses with his glove but because he's out so far hits him in the shoulder and that's what I've seen a lot of he doesn't have

to be perfect guys, you know, he doesn't have to be perfect because he's so active in this crease and he's such a strong skater that if you were looking at the full scope of skaters and you were going to rank them in the NHL, Bob's right there with Dustin Wolf, whereas Stu Skinner's, he's really at the lower end of the low end. I think that he needs to back up to be successful. And that's why he needs a reset. Are you a Pickard guy at all? Do you have a thought?

I know he doesn't play a ton of hockey. Do you have an opinion on him one way or the other as a goaltender? Sorry, Borny, I cut out my ear thing. Can you say it one more time? Just Pickard. Are you a Pickard guy? Do you have a thought on him one way or the other?

Pickard is a battler. I mean, it's, you know what, Borny? He's Billy Smith is what heny? He's Billy Smith is what he is. He is Billy Smith modern day. He's gonna go in there and grind. It's not gonna be pretty. Sometimes when the goals go in they don't look pretty but if you need somebody to go in there and give you that moral boost like just a just a breath of fresh air just go in there and grind and I think everybody would rally around it. You know, you saw it in the LA series

Yeah, so that did that window that stretch help Potentially make a call for the next game Yeah, you've got two days to figure it here and I think again if if you get the sense from Stu and you know, I'm better than anybody if you're his coach and Coaching staff if you get the sense that he needs just to let this thing breathe until we get back to Edmonton, all day long you're confident with a guy that's gone 6-0 for you in Pickard. And look, you wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for Pickard.

So if he's ready and he's healthy, which it appears he is, let him go in there and just grind. And again, I'd go with him because of just the overall sense of team chemistry and belief a little bit that way. Are you good to go away from the series at all? Yeah, that right. Unrestricted free agency is a few weeks away. Last year, we talked about you thought Stolarz was one of the guys that was a good by low, you know, a guy that had upside and could do it. You also pinpointed Kevin Lankton and before Kevin Lankton had a good season.

Is there anyone on your mind out there? You're good. Who's who's next? Who's the next guy to pop? You got any USA goalies out there? You know what? We're just guys who are under contract. It's funny. No, I looked at it. I looked at it today and this is the finished year We've seen in a really long time. So I would say the best performing goalie that you might need in Something like a 1a is actually Jake Allen. Jake Allen would be the guy that you'd bring in to support Look, hey, if you had Jake Allen in Edmonton's net right now Barney, they'd be in a better position

Yeah, all right, you know, they'd be in a better position. Yeah. All right. That's the type of situation you put Jake Allen in. It's true, though. It's true. From January 1st, Jake was the fourth best performing goalie in overall expected saves. You're not getting somebody that's hurting, and think he's well, he's still 34 years old He's not over the hump Yeah, and I think he'd come in at a price point that a team like Edmonton like don't forget Edmonton's not supposed to have Stu Skinner as their number one right now. It's supposed to be Jack Campbell. He should be in what year three I think of his contract. It's almost unfair to pile on Stu Skinner

Yeah You know, and if you're looking at other goalies around the league that can come in and fill a void where you're not going to spend top dollar Alex Lyme would be another option or Chris Drieger. Jonas Johansson, I like a lot in Tampa Bay, but there is not a blue chip fine that you can really pull in like we've seen in the last couple years. What about Dan Vlidar? No.

No, no. What about Anton Forsberg? No, no. Forsberg I've liked over the years, I have, but I don't think he's there. You know who I think is sneaky-born-y? You know I think he's sneaky? Jett Greaves is, to me, he's me, he's right there with Dustin Wolf. I think this kid's unreal.

I think he's great. I think Jet Grieves, if he's as good as I think he is, and Columbus thinks possibly he is, maybe it's Elvis Merslykens that somebody's willing to be able to capture from Columbus. And I say that with a little bit of reservation. You need a very good goalie coach that can teach him how to manage depth and odd man rushes and brush

play altogether because the only guy that's worse off the rush than Stu Skinner over the last 3 years is Mars leakins but he's very strong in all of the other areas. So when you can look at a goalie maybe your team that doesn't give up off an awful lot off the rush that. So when you can look at a goalie, maybe you're a team that doesn't give up an awful lot off the rush, that helps, but then you can just help him piece together his rush game and his reads. I don't think rush is that difficult to learn. You just have to understand if you're Elvis Merzlikin's

that you don't have to over-challenge the shot the way that he does, and that's why he's so susceptible to the East-west stuff Have we talked to Valley since the Boar has been fired in? Dallas no, no, so Was this just a foregone conclusion that Ottinger and Peter de Boer could no longer? Be in harmony moving forward here for you. Yeah. Yeah, I got a couple calls after that one. Thanks for the exposure on that. You know, well, you know, I had my opinions on it and you know, I think that's why you guys bring me on here.

I just knew it was going to happen. Like I knew as soon as Pete said that I said of my head. I was like fired, you know, like just, you know, that's just the way I just think that's just the way the cookie crumbles, you know, and he went overboard on it maybe he wishes to you know relinquish a few of the comments but I never saw that working you know what I thought would happen to her if you if they don't make a change there whether they keep the board and

you know seemingly move on from. And you're if the board started that season he wouldn't made it to Christmas, it just never works, you know it was like Jacob Truba starting the season for the Rangers this year when he was almost should have been traded over the summer. So just never works. So just just to follow up my colleague here, JB wrote a raving article on sportsnet.ca that people should go revisit.

And it just basically talks about how soft the players are today and that They can't take anything remotely even as critical as you know, it came across from Dabor and I Know the coaches union loved his article. I'm not sure about the rest of the players in the league But there there's there's something to be said about JB's article here. Valley. I don't, I don't disagree with what I'm sure it's, I'm sure it's a great article and I, and I'm sure I would agree with all of it, except I don't believe these athletes now

they have the thick skin that you two guys had. Or that I had. That's it. Coaches used to say to me, you wouldn't believe it. Well, Hey, I certainly would. Same era, pal. It's not that it was fun, but you know, it didn't have to be a relationship ruiner either. It felt like, you know, hey, shouldn't have said that.

Let's talk about it. Figure it out. Hey, JB, I'm on the ice with these kids, like college kids, USHL kids, OHL kids every day right now. You wouldn't believe what I can't say to them what I used to say to them 20 years ago. Like it's just different, man. They didn't talk back to me.

I mean, this kid go down and back today. Cause I was like, hey man, you missed the low block in the last three shots. He goes, no, I didn't. I was like, what? If you're gonna talk back, at least be good. Down and back. Yeah, down and back.

There it is. Follow it up with a why. Why do I need to go down and back? Why, down and back. There it is. Followed up with a why? Why do I need to go down? Tell me more? Yeah, I don't agree with that. What is like you hear the buzzwords from the coaches holding the standard hunting the standard and culture. You know, what is this journey? It's so annoying, right? But you know, what it is really is, if the goalie, if I tell a goalie before the exercise begins that I need you to be like a,

like a lion in the Serengeti attacking that puck and getting it like you haven't eaten in two weeks. And then he lets a soft rebound out and lets it go in on a rebound or doesn't chase and try and freeze it. At the end of the exercise, I just say down and back. Like that's holding them accountable. They want to learn how to compete, they just don't know how.

And I think in a lot of cases, NHL players still have to be held accountable. And I wasn't kidding when I said last week, if you pay the coaches too much, they're not gonna stick their neck out as much. That's just the way it is. I remember talking to a GM about this a little while ago, and I said, why don't you pay the

scouts more? And you know what he said? If you pay them too much, they won't stick their neck out to make a call on a guy. Something to think about, right? If you pay them too much, are they going to stick their neck out and not make a call on a guy? Or if you pay them the right amount, that sweet spot of money, then they want to move up the ladder, so they will stick their neck out.

And that's where I wonder if the coaches aren't following that same trap. Why do you think our show's so good? It's because we're vastly underpaid. Well, you got me in the wheelhouse. I got nothing to lose. We got nothing to lose. Hey, you know what I really liked from your show yesterday,

talking to Chris Pronger, when he was talking about being two feet away from the net We that was a nice one as soon as he said it I wrote it down Borny and then when it came back on you said the same thing Yeah So I looked it up because I really you know I'm trying to get teams and players to understand how valuable broken plays are well what pronger saying is I want to be away from The net so I'm not a broken play going off my skate into my own net.

So the broken play goal that went in more than any other goal this year was the attempt east to west across the front of the net, tight to the net. And it scored 115 goals this year on 333 chances. And the next closest broken play was 95 goals on a layered screen off point shots. So the, the more valuable broken play is the east to west at the top of the crease than it even is from the point. If you can believe that excellent stuff, buddy. Excellent stuff is always so appreciate you on a Tuesday pal.

Thanks for doing this. All right, boys. I might not see you again. Have a great summer On us it's over Can we edit that out on the podcast Valley's telling us he's he's done for the year. I think that's fair. I mean it is June. Great stuff. We have wrung a lot of juice out of that man.

Yeah. That sounds terrible. Anyway. Game time there, Sammy boy. Sure. It's game time. Presented by Beth365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's ever ordinary at Beth365. Must be 19 plus, Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

And in another edition of Deep Regrets that Sam McKee didn't bet, the Con Smythe futures. The favorite for the Con Smythe that I brought up on this very show mere days ago. Bam send it. It is absolutely Sam Bennett, the favorite for the cons my trophy at plus one 25. And when I talked about it was plus 1400. I don't think he he needs to score another goal. They just need to win two games. Yeah. Can I ask you guys how sure you were that he was scoring as soon as he broke in on that

breakaway? I was like, I honestly just turned off the TV. There's no no part of the deep where you felt like Skinner had a hope. No. But hold on. OK, go ahead. Here's my thing with the whole Sam Bennett's going to win the cons. My thing. No, no, no. I think I'm about to make a very reasonable point.

OK, if you asked Florida who was more important before every game, I could remove Barkov or Bennett from your lineup? I think they would all say Barkov is our most important guy. If Barkov is not in, I don't think Bennett has the chance to be who he is. And I know it's just about how matchups fall. Bennett plays like 16 and a half minutes. Barkov is out there 21-30 against top guys. He's more important.

But he's more important. But he's more important, yes, no one will argue that, but Bennett's had more important impact plays, if that makes any sense. And that's what it is. That's what the Kahn Smythe is. It's like who stands out when the game's on the line or there's a difference maker in a goal or a play. And Bennett's had a number of those. For sure. And he's not the most important player and he's not their best player,

but he's had that window where he's been the most impactful. And he defines their culture more than Barkov does. Like when you think of the Panthers, you think about the guy who hits. But the hit before the breakaway. Yeah, he plows pod Coles and then he goes and come on leaves the rush on a breakaway where we are as close to a bad scene yeah it was you know but that's a memorable goal yeah for sure there's no argument he has been the Florida Panther you're like I remember him from that playoff push I

think he's he's underrated with his hockey IQ and even his skill. Kippur, there is zero part of Sam Bennett that is underrated right now. Yeah, the rating of Sam Bennett is- No, no, no, no, no. If anything, he is bordering on extremely over- It was, it wasn't that long ago,

someone on this panel, not me or you, said, I'm not paying that for 60 points a season and he 50 ones is career high let's see what okay yeah worse buddy eight years you're gonna get 40 point seasons and he's gonna be 35 and you know it's yeah you gotta be careful with this deal I know I know you want to pay for the future not the past these type of deals that will not be careful these type of deals that we're looking at moving forward They never really age well for anybody Fortunately, the caps gonna go way up over his deal

So and last thing before we go another big week in the PGA tour US open this weekend at Oakmont where I've seen enough videos of rough and fast greens and they're shaving the fringes and they're trying To make it look like it's the hardest thing on earth But Scotty Scheffler is the big favorite at plus 280. Bryson DeChambeau, the next favorite, plus 750. Rory all the way down at 13 to one. John Rahm, 12 to one. And Xander Schauffele at 24 to one

to round out the top five for the favorites. So there you go. You should be able to see some weight on a ball. They cut the, I heard that they did cut some of the rough. Well, yeah, they cut it, but I saw it didn't look like anything was coming off. It's too hard. It's too hard.

It's just stupid. I'm among the crowd that likes to see these guys tortured a little bit, so. Anyways, that was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the athlete as odds and find out why it's ever ordinary at Bet365, that's 19+, on Terra Only. Please play responsibly. Okay, we'll take a quick break. When we we return we'll get into a little bit more of

what we saw last night and what we didn't like to see out of the Edmonton Oilers. Where was the toughness when you needed it? That more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Hey, it's Ailish for afar and I'm Justin Cuthbert. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame 6 PM week days on sports that sports at 5 90 the fan and wherever you get your podcasts.

As a reminder, this hour of real Kipper and born brought to you by that 3 65 Nick Caprio's Justin Bourne Sammy McKee. Uh, I'm not sure if you've heard of him. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a As a reminder, this hour of Real Kipper and Born brought to you by Bet365, Nick Kipriels, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee.

Last night disappointed me for no other reason that I thought that the Oilers could fight fire with fire last night, but I only saw fire from one side. Well, didn't you think the Oilers were trying to stick up for themselves to fight fire with fire? Like they weren't just, they didn't go quietly into the night, it was, stuff happened. No, I got a little quietly into the night. Yeah, I got it.

I got quietly into the night. You had Frederick chasing around Bennett trying to, yeah. It's okay, that's one good component. There's a brawl. Okay. I got the end of the night. You had Frederick chasing around Bennett. That's okay. That's one good component There's a brawl. Okay. I don't think they went quiet I mean they lost six one in the Stanley Cup finals So who's who's just beaten up on Ekholm along the boards Greer? I hated that that bothered me I it was a bad look. I can't call men's up in woman's arms and that's I'm telling you It was a bad look. I can't call men's up in Wallman's arms. Yes. And that's, I'm telling you,

I've been in that position before and there's a few guys that I felt like could not end the game on the bench. They had to have been escorted off the ice. That's the kind of finish without jeopardizing suspensions or fines are fine. We saw Wallman suspend or fine $10,000. No problem. Pay that all day long. But I hated watching Greer go after Ekholm

and then really nothing at the end. And Evander Kane to me was the first guy I thought could not finish the game. Like he, Evander Kane needed to go after somebody and lay a beating, okay? You know what? Getting a two minute high sticking penalty and then a 10 minute misconduct

was the easy way out for him last night. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, I get the point. You know, I think a lot of what people in Edmonton are talking about is like they lost their composure. You know, a lot of this seemed to be Florida having fun with it. I understand the fights are not entirely fun here. So maybe this is not the clip for my point. Well, give nurse credit too, because that's a tough guy he fought. Absolutely.

Nurse is in the top class though. He can fight anybody. But he can fight anybody. He's in the top class to me. But there's a few guys that needed to kind of answer like a nurse. But I do feel that more than, and that's fair point by you,

for my point it's like, they didn't handle it well emotionally. It felt like they weren't in control of things. They were just kind of taking it as it happened. Florida, even though Florida was involved in all that stuff, they seemed very composed and they're very comfortable in that style of game and they just got Internet off their game. So what worries me for the Oilers now is the message is we need to be more composed.

We can't take that many penalties. We need to play within ourselves, take a cross check, take a whatever. And now Florida is going to have less sticks on them, more access to the net. Like Edmonton is going to try to not take as many penalties. What, they take 11 last night? 11. You know, they're going to not take, and if you're Florida, perfect. Create room for ourselves out there. Most combined penalty know, they're in a naughty, and if you're Florida, perfect. The most since the mid-80s. Create room for yourselves out there.

Most combined penalty minutes in a Stanley Cup final game. The most was the Flames of Canadians in 86. Panthers, Golden Knights, 23 in 23 with 148. Canucks, Bruins with 145 in 2011. And last night was the fourth most in the history of the Stanley Cup final with 140 combined penalty minutes. So, bit of a root nanny out there. It was the most PIMs in of the Stanley Cup final with 140 combined penalty minutes. So

It was the most PIMS in any playoff game this year and the most or sorry third most all season long that game was out of order Yeah, I just that we talked about what makes the Florida Panthers great and Like toughness is one thing but like I don't like we've said, they have tough guys in their fourth line, but like none. They're not all particularly like bruisers, but like they just have guys that make you want to do dumb crap all the time.

Like you look at Kachuk in the eye and he's got that stupid mouth guard outside of his face and he's always in your goalie's face and he's just like doing stuff to piss you off. They're elite at making you mad and making you do dumb stuff. And then you see them go in the power play and they go globe trotters on you. Yeah, like it's just they're so good at every facet and so frustrating because then you get Marshan and look at this

flop by Bobrowski. Oh my God. What? That's a bear. It's a bear. He should be fine. He should be fine for that. Neymar would be proud of that one.

That's embarrassing. But anyways, I just yes, the Oilers end up a shorthanded lot So yeah next game really tough to me to go into a game against the Panthers thinking be careful Yeah, you know That's the last emotion you should have another two games between games Thursday night. Oh it resumes Who do you like that better for? Florida It resumes Who do you like that better for? Florida Yeah, it depends though, you know

McDavid and dry saddle Do you know the path to winning for Edmonton is McDavid and dry saddle are you know? Undeniable and Skinner's better, right? So do those guys need the most rest? Do you need them at their very best to get what you need? I'm not sure it's enough. I think they need two or three guys to once again step up. I don't know if it's another Perry, Miracle, Arvidsson, Brown, Nugent Hopkins hurting.

He didn't have an impact last night, right? But he's, it was a game time decision. We don't even know if he's playing at 50% or 60%. Didn't practice today. Right? Yeah. So. And the fact that the Oilers did practice today is kind of crazy in itself.

Can you really see the Edmonton Oilers winning three of four games now? Yeah. The only reason I can. With Dry Cytl, McDavid, Skinner at the top of their game. Three of four games now. Yeah. The only reason I can. With Dry Cytl, McDavid, Skinner at the top of their game. Cause I don't think it's enough. I think their needs.

Hyman is so bad. They need depth guys to step out again. When you don't have a ton of depth guys, losing a physical, fast, scory depth guy in Hyman really hurts. You know last year the Oilers beat the Panthers three times in the Stanley Cup final in a row. You know it is it's not impossible. The one thing I'll note. Just have to win Thursday. Yeah you have to win Thursday. Have to win Thursday and then and then you're going home with a chance to go back up like Thursday night is

it's a big game. Like for the history of like the league in terms of Connor McDavid and the trajectory of his career, Thursday night is a as big as it gets hockey game. And then the NHL, if you believe that the Panthers are like a defense, a more defense first type of team and more by whatever power plays at the start of a period when there's fresh ice, they do worse. I know people don't know that, but because the penalty kill is rested

and they have a chance to set and make a plan. They're energized and they're ready to kill. So you get hard workers can outdo your skill guys. My point is that helps Florida if you're the hardworking defense team. So that's the Harlem Globetrotter goal. Oh my God. The Eclad goal.

He started the power play with, I think, Marchand's line. The defense team. So that's the Harlem Globetrotter goal. Oh my god. The Eclad goal. Yeah. He started the power play with I think Marchand's line. And then on the back half after the peddling killers are exhausted, then he throws out Barkov and Reinhardt. Yeah. And it was like, you knew that goal was coming. Yeah. Well, they have flipped to their PP1 is right. right? Florida was starting power plays with the Marchand unit

because they've been so good. So good. Which by the way, is such a funny like Leafs thing because we watched them all year long about like, can you break it up into two units? No, not allowed. It's illegal, you go to jail if you do it. Yeah.

But Florida has proven that it's okay to have two power play units. I have two things. Wes McCauley, of course, wanted to make sure it was about him last night in the first period. He wants to make as many. I honestly didn't even know it was all. Enough. Penalties. Like these little tiki-tak.

It's like, oh my God, it's the final. Let's see some five on five actions. So first of all, that drove me crazy. Second of all, the Lees paid more for Scott Lawton than the Panthers did for Brad Marshand. And that will keep me up at night for the rest of my life. I just, he didn't want to, he wanted to go to Florida, right? Yeah, it's only Florida, it was only Florida. Don't care.

It just hurts, yeah, sure. It's just, it's. So now similar contribution. Very. Animal. Not in anyone's wildest dreams did we think that Brad Marchand was going to come in and have that type of impact. Did we?

Did you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course you thought that could happen. Not like that. What? Of course you thought that could happen. One of the greatest playoff performers of her era joining the best playoff team of the era?

Are you doing well together? He's coming off like an off season. He came off multiple injuries. He didn't even. He had no training camp. Like, come on. His numbers are off the charts. He's Brad Marsh.

I know. I know. I know. He's unbelievable. I know. I know. It looked really weird for the first couple of weeks, and I don't think he was into it as much.

And it was just. and then he settled in with that third line, those fins, and they're just, God, it makes me sick. He's gonna make 8 million bucks next year. Good for him. Seven and a half. Yeah, good for him. Yeah, he deserves it.

He should, and the Leafs should give it to him. Sure, done. And Sam Bennett, 12 and a half. Oh my God. Let's do it. Oh my God, Sammy. Spending like a drunken sailor. Let's just go home.

Let's go home. I don't want to think about the Panthers anymore. Well, you have to because it's not over. I don't wanna. It's not over. Our thanks to Steve Valakett, who always does an amazing job on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show every Tuesday.

You think he's still on the air? Not anymore. Like Doug McLean? He don't. It's over. Alright, thanks to you, the listener, the watcher.