Real Kyper & Bourne - Vally's View: Conference Finals by the Numbers

Episode Date: May 26, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on Game 3 of the Eastern Conference Final: another overtime win for the Hurricanes over the Canadiens. They discuss the Canes' by-committee approach, a pair of missed calls in the late stages and the Habs' lack of shots. Then, MSG analyst and CEO of Clear Sight Analytics, Steve Valiquette (12:05), stops to break down the ECF by the numbers, the Hurricanes' depth making a difference and what's gone wrong for the Avalanche, before getting into another playoff edition of Grill Marks. Later, Justin and Sam discuss recent news about the Leafs' interest in David Carle for head coach, and Ivar Stenberg's performance at the World Championship. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Once again, it's the fastest hour in hockey. It's the Real Kipper and Bourne show. Season five, really five. We're closing in five. Really, Sam? I guess. I guess it's where we're at. Yeah.

Here we are, bud. He's not the best producer for nothing, folks, with that type of chime. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Jake the Snake Shills, Derek Brandeo. We are live on SportsSep 590, The Fan. Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. 650 in Vancouver 360 sports app plus

and YouTube where we always appreciate a thumbs up and wherever you get your pods Spotify, Apple wherever this hour of real Kipprenborn brought to by Bet365 Sammy's got the Vegas glitter

jersey up today for this hour It was already out. Was it? You didn't touch it? I put it a real hat. Actually I put it a real hanger on it because whoever does the hockey show just leaves it on a white hanger and it drives me nuts, but I put a nice hanger on it. If I grab that jersey, will I end up with like yellow sparkles on my hands like I did when my daughter was like eight years old?

Yes, like leaving a strip club. I got to tell you, the difference between this jersey in person and on TV is jarring. Because I knew it had... It's a horrid tarp. It was just as bad as you can do. Yeah, it doesn't get much worse. Like if you see it on TV, it looks like a Nashville predator is sort of a mustardy yellow. And in person, it's this glitter bomb.

Torp. Which I get, it's Vegas. That's kind of the thing. But, ah, boy, boy. The glitter bomb nights try to close out. The Vegas glitter bomb nights. The Vegas clear bomb nights will try to close out their conference final against Colorado tonight, a game that could be seen right here on Sportsnet, APM.

I put the wrong time. It's at nine for some reason. I looked. When I was about to start the show, it's at 9 p.m. It's not 8? No, it's 9. Why 9? Because I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know 9. That's what you get. Maybe Wayne Newton's playing from like 6 to 830. Wayne Newton. They got Gwen Stefani at the sphere is the new one. Yeah.

Okay. Nine. How was that? She said it was fantastic. Oh, I'm sure. Well, welcome Steve Aliquette, analysts with the New York Rangers. MSG, CEO, ClearSight Analytics.

We'll get in. into Vegas, Colorado, we'll get into Montreal. What happened to the Canadians last night, as Feshnikov scores in overtime to lift the hurricanes. In game three of the East final, you were a betting man, which often you two are. Like, it was only a matter of time, right, with the feeling like...

The O.T. winner, I mean? Well, just the overall game. It was just, like, it didn't feel like, Montreal was a shot away last night for whatever reason they could have been and they have been in the past. They have been. That's why it's never like. But that catches up to you. Does it not and did it not catch up to them last night?

Like it's not a problem until it's a problem. I would argue that it all caught up to them last night just in terms of getting hemmed in their own end and getting pounded and long shifts. And, you know, Carolina's whole stick is four checks. sticks finish check wear you down they flip it out we're going right back at you and you saw really talented players making uncharacteristic mistakes obviously lane hudson on the o t winner slavkovsky i thought was just as much to blame on that one he drifted out of the middle but Suzuki turned it over in his own end dobson turn it over at his own end they just looked mentally worn down and having said all that uh Nick Suzuki walks in on a breakaway and overtime and misses the post by what a half an inch

low blocker and it could have it's, I don't know, I thought last night, and even in game two, because the scores have been close, boys, but the habs, I mean, they're getting out classed here. Like, this is not, there's no comparison, whether it be they're the, the,

how much their playing has caught up to them versus how little the Carolina hurricanes have played. It just, it doesn't feel like it's very close, in my opinion. Am I way off on that? Like, it just, one team feels way more undeniable than the other. Yeah. I mean, you've seen the same thing?

Yeah, yeah, no question. And I picked the Canadians. I still think that overall that they have, I don't know what the term is, more gifted players. I think if you were drafting from all the players in this series, you'd probably take three Canadians before you got to a hurricane. You think?

Their meat. Slavin might be the first overall pick? Oh, yeah? I was thinking Hudson, Suzuki. Oh, yeah. Like I like Slavin, but you get capped out with, you get capped out he cannot can't do what

Hudson can do he can't do what Quinn can do he can't do what McCar can do yet all three of them are like almost out of the playoffs right I just am they're you make a good point they're they're they're really doing it by committee

for sure and they don't have bona fide superstar game breakers Carolina not one and I think that's why these games are close because they're controlling playing play. They're peppering the goal. The amount of shots and shot attempts. It's not even close, but they just don't have

the super duper star to break the ties. Even their fourth line, that Jankowski line? Yeah. Carrier, Jankowski, Robinson. The difference between what they look like and Sebastian Aho's line last night looked like, it's a small

gap. Yeah, they actually have a better expected goals four percentage than the Aho line. They're like near 60%. They're all All above 54. And then to me, like, yeah, Coffield, bonafide 50 goals score, but isn't looking like one right now as a threat, a consistent threat.

And Suzuki, I'm sorry, but you got to hit the net. You got to find a way to make magic at that moment. Chances are too few to. Where do you want to start in terms of some clips before we get to Steve Alicat? I think, I mean, I'm, we should probably talk about the overtime question marks and what a lot of fans are pissed off about in terms of the too many men not being called.

And the trip on Hudson that has La Belle Provence in my mentions. They are not thrilled about that not being called. I don't know where you guys stood on it. Yeah. I'll let you pipe in here quickly here. I'm sorry, but officials shouldn't look scared to make a call. And they looked scared. last night to make a call.

It's the old we don't want to influence the game and it's like you're influencing it by not calling that. J.B, that's, that was 10 years ago, 15 years ago. That was my era. Don't influence it. Let the boys decide. We've evolved or we're long past that. Over time have been one on power plays.

Late power plays to end a third period in playoffs we've had. It's okay. It's okay to end a game on a power play in overtime. They just decided they weren't going to do it. I think the clearest thing I've ever seen is that they didn't call the trip on Hudson. And then they decided, oh, man, we missed one bad. So let's even it out. So then they went this to the too many.

It's like the most I've seen them be like, are bad on that one. Yeah, just no good. Give one back. And then Hudson takes the high elbow too, right? From carrier, yeah. Oh, come on. No, I know that, but it's, you know what, if you can't be scared to make a call,

you can't. I thought the Superman impression after he felt the stick in his skates was part of the reason they didn't call it too. Like, this team's been diving for three straight rounds. Take them both off then. Do it. Or they didn't do either. Take the trip and then take the embellishment.

He's already been called in these playoffs for embellishment. I thought it was a pretty clear embellishment. And they didn't call it. I love that they didn't call too many men on the ice. I disagree with you guys. I don't think there should be any penalties in overtime unless you shoot it over the glass. Guys aren't trying to commit penalties.

There's no, nobody's doing anything dirty. No, well, that's not the point, right? Point isn't if you're trying to or not. No, I just, I don't know. I just find that, let them decide it five on five. Yeah, I. Nobody wants that more than us, Sammy. But it's still a game with rules.

Yeah, I get it. I get it. But I just, I've often heard you say that you don't love when the refs influence it And that they don't like... But they're not influencing it if it's a trip. Call it right. Call it right. If it's too many men on the ice.

If it's offside. Okay? And we had one last night. But did anybody go that they shouldn't have called it? Everybody's now living with the fact that that was offside. I also think they shouldn't have... It was two minutes before the puck entered the net. I hate that.

I think if there's... You've talked about this. It's been one of your thoughts that it passed to stat like, How long? 30 seconds? Sure. Everyone's been playing. Two full minutes before it. I just thought that was crazy.

Where do you want to go? Do you want to go on Lane Hudson's turnover? The lack of shots. Where do you want to go? Yeah, I'd be interested to hear the stuff on the lack of shots, right? I mean, that's the fourth time in playoffs. They've been sub 15 and back-to-back games. You're at home.

You got to do better than averaging four shots a period. Yeah. You would think so. They just can't touch it. They're just not as, I don't know, it's hard to explain. Let's get head coach, Marty St. Louis, thoughts on the lack of shots, clip two. We don't want to pass up on shots, but, you know, there's opportunity there. There's something better than a shot, but I feel like we don't create enough of those decisions that you have to make.

So we got to work on that first, you know, and then, you know, give more of those. and guys can be selective on their decision, but we should be having more value, you know, and we'll work on that. I would say my number one, nah, number one, but a high pet peeve of mine is hearing coaches say, and Marty didn't say it there,

we have to shoot more or whatever. You have to be in the position to make that decision. You have to move your feet more. Get to those spots more and decide what's a good shot and what is in. It's not just shooting it from out by the boards. You've got to get to scoring spots better, and that's what it is for them. I think there's just a lot of fatigue involved here.

I think that it's just clock strike in midnight. They've just run into somebody that's just too fast. They're working too hard for them. It's just too much. It's been a fantastic run for the HABs. And I can come in here. Oh, he's burying them. I am.

I really don't. I'm not ready to bury them yet. I know what you're talking about. 12 shots. They can't, they don't touch it. What's the adjustment they're going to make? I know.

That Freddie's going to let in four and that's the, that's how they're going to, that's the only chance for them. Is Freddie turns full pumpkin. No. Right. Yeah, like he wasn't great last night. No, no. I have an article out right now, which you can, I believe it is up,

and you can check that out. And it's on the idea of like the hurricanes and heart. And the idea that like, you know, analytics can't measure heart and this sort of thing, they just have a pile of guys who play with heart on that team and work and work and work. And it's just that doggedness. I also mentioned that the whole rest versus Russ thing,

Russ showed up in the first period of game one, but the rest is playing out now. right as a series goes on. Okay, speaking of heart, nobody has a bigger one on Tuesdays in this time slot. Out of the gate. Let's go to Steve Aliquette,

analyst within Rangers, CEO, ClearSight Analytics. Bally, how are you, my friend? I'm good. I think you guys are talking about the New York Knicks. Oh, yeah, scrappy. You got that heart. Buddy, what is going on?

I lived in New York long enough to know that you complain about the Knicks. The Rangers are, are always okay. It's the Knicks. And now it's the Rangers that are not okay. The Knicks are just on fire. You know, that's what they're talking to a few of the analysts at MSG recently, Kipper.

That's what everybody says. The Knicks are the Rangers of 10 years ago. And you know what, boys? I was watching the next game last night just quickly. They're up by 30 points. They've won 11 in a row. It's unprecedented. And they're smoking people.

So I was asking those guys on the MSG side, Like, what exactly is going on here? And they're like, the top three players, including Brunson and his two teammates from Villanova, they all won a championship together. They come from great families, high character people. They are the leaders in the locker room, and they set the tone every night, and everybody follows. And, you know, it's the same thing we talk about, if we're talking about change of leadership with the Toronto Maple Leafs, what's going on with the Rangers.

Every team's looking for this recipe. Scouting staffs are hiring Navy SEALs to do back. on players that are about to be drafted in June. Yeah, you can believe that. In hockey? In hockey. And I think that the players, Borny, a lot of players believe that, yeah, your social media accounts get checked. These guys go a lot deeper.

There are more players. They're in your ring cams. They're listening to Alexa. Going through your garbage. Wow. Yes. And guys, like if you have a young teenager, I'm telling you. you got to stay on these guys because you can wreck your future.

They're going deep. And I mean back to coaches from minor hockey. So I think it's very important for players to know that everything is being watched. And even when you don't think you're on the do not draft list, you could be on somebody's do not draft list for something that you forgot about from five years earlier. I got to tell you, Valley, I hate it. Like heaven forbid you make some mistakes and learn from them somewhere along the way, hey? I don't disagree with that.

I went through it. I think that the money at stake, I think, is serious now, guys. Look at it, you know, this is long-term ramification stuff. But at any rate, that's a topic for another day, but that's going on in the real world for sure. Well, it's not entirely a topic for another day because I wrote an article today, which I just mentioned to Kip about analytic. People say analytics can't measure heart, right?

That's a thing. And in my contention in this piece is that correct. It cannot measure heart. But guys who play with heart, consistent. show in games that heart and that influences their results. And you're looking for these players that have positive results. And in turn, often you get guys with heart. Can you not with your company just look at a 50-50 puck and find out who wins

majority of them and label that the heart analytic? Sure, you could. So to a certain degree, yes. I've had conversations with scouts, pro scouts. I haven't had this conversation with amateur scouts, but pro scouts have told me if you brought our company into the organization and narrowed down the scouting staff on the pro side, you could look at these special metrics, important metrics, and then go out and scout them. Boots on the ground.

You're still getting out there and doing the work. No way are you just going by the number. Forget that noise. You're going to take the number. You're going to watch some video, but then it's boots on the ground. Because as you guys know, when you're there live, you can see an entire shift from somebody. is a totally different experience in body language. That goes a long way for anybody that makes a big decision.

We all know that as well. Montreal and Carolina last night, it goes into overtime, but the overwhelming feeling was that at times, especially with the volume that Carolina continues to throw at the Montreal Canadiens, that the ice was tilted a little bit here. Does that work, shoot from everywhere? and eventually you play the percentages

and it just naturally will fall in your favor when you just out volume the other team? Yes. Look, I think that when I watch basketball comparing it to hockey, it's funny how they don't have anybody guarding their net, but we do. And that's the big difference with our sport, isn't it? It's the volatility of a goalie. And if the shots are made in hockey,

with the right percentages and probability, and you're getting into areas where you should be shooting. You don't want to be passing up shots to look for fancy. That's not the point, but you do need enough. Guys, they're going in the high danger chances, one every three in the playoffs, and I said that was going to be the case. It doesn't matter who your goalie is.

But in that series, Kipper, right now, Frederick Anderson, he's faced 18 grade A chances. He's allowed nine, okay? So they're playing at 50% against him. They need more. They'll be okay. Against, though, they've had 24 high danger chances against them, Montreal has. So Carolina is beating them 24 to 18 in the chances that matter.

Breakaways, odd man rushes, screen deflections. And, you know, you have to look at the volume because we need more guys to score. We just need more. They need more. And for Montreal, there are times where they're in a grade A position, and they're looking for the next grade A, and that's getting squeezed. And some of their players, some of their players have me a little nervous, not getting inside enough when there is a lane to drive.

Or Slavkovsky, to me, he looks a little like Philippeitel after a few concussions. He doesn't look right to me. That's my own opinion. I don't have a medical opinion on that, but things are closing quickly for him, and his window is closed. I always look at players on first touch and it's first touch-off pass. Can you quickly have eyes up and get a shot off? This game, guys, it's all about half a second.

And if hockey players can understand that, they can work on their own player development to another level. And I'd say that half a second is really the difference between elite and exposed in the playoffs because there are players that get conflicted with where offense comes from. They try to hang on to it for a step too long. and now that window's closed. The goalie's over and he's staring at you. And you can't give that opportunity to Frederick Anderson

because he's not sharp right now and he's not going to be clean off his rebound. And if there is a broken play, he's going to be on his ass. Montreal can do more damage just getting it off a little sooner on first play instead of looking for more. They don't need more. Yeah. Vet Valley, I feel like with the Hurricanes is like they've tried to get a superstar.

They know they need a superstar. They tried to get ranting. They try the head, Gensel for a sec there. Like, they're aware that they need that, right? But I guess I want to know your thoughts on if you think an organization will have a better chance to win a Stanley Cup being, as the Leafs have been for years, maybe top heavy, like some real superstars,

but weaker boat behind it, or like the canes in hockey, where they're just kind of good all the way through. I know you need some things to fall your way, but it's watching them every year. It's like, God, they win a lot of rounds doing this good all the way through thing. And not to just tell. Vegas either. I can remember the last time I was on your show, we talked about how when they

won the cup in 23, they look a lot similar to what they are right now. In 23, their first line had 16 goals, second line 16, third line 15, fourth line nine. Their defenseman had nine. You know, like it was deep all the way through. And we've already talked about how they've been built. And a lot of teams that are built through trade have a little more experience behind them because they're getting players on their second and third team sometimes, star players. There's star qualities, but they all fit in. When I watch Carolina play hockey, they certainly play total hockey. I get it.

But do they have the high-end finishing rates that they should have to win? I think that's why they've always been stopped at the Eastern Conference final. I've seen two series in the last five years prior to the Rangers missing the playoffs, these last two, where they've lost the Rangers. And it was always almost warning the same shots coming in over and over again. Two linear. When you get a scoring chance on a off the rush, for instance, I had something here for me earlier to look at. And it's basically like you look at off the rush for the Montreal Canadians.

How can they have 16 scoring chances this year in this, excuse me, in this playoff round? And the Vegas Golden Knights have 22, Carolina has 27, the Colorado Avalanche. They have 31. But the quality of the Montreal Canadian 16 is better than all of them. theirs. You know, and that's sort of the fringes that Montreal is working with, where they can go a little bit too much and get a little too cute

or a little too fancy, but their chances are more dangerous for the goalie to field. The other guys are getting more chances, but they're not as quality. And I think that when I watched, for instance, to start a game three, Nathan McKinnon has a breakaway,

he just goes straight in. And that's easy for a goalie when you are stick handling as a right and it's between the middle of your skates and then you shoot the puck. McKinnon, I can't tell you how many times, and this was something that we talked about around the Olympics, he has to know how to go to his left and right

and use the ice that he has to maybe throw more deception to the goalie. When a puck carrier has the puck in the middle and they're not using their east or west or even north and south deception, it's almost like you're giving the goalie a look is if four sticks are converging on that guy, and you know exactly which one he chooses,

stationary shot right down the middle. And to me, that's where we're talking about the difference between some of the teams like Carolina that could be more effective. Colorado could be more effective with deception. Montreal is really good with it, but are they getting enough of it? You're watching and listening to Steve Aliquette,

analyst for MSG, also CEO of ClearSight Analytics, just to cap off. if J.B.'s point, you know, I'm watching last night, Jankowski and the trust that Rob Brindemore has for him, Eric Robertson, influential on the first goal. I got to look twice to see, you know, if it's the first line or the fourth line, they kind of look the same down low.

And they're getting so much, so much mileage out of the third and fourth line. And as you said, Van, Vegas as well. And I think that's what I appreciate so much about our game, that, you know, to your point about the Knicks, maybe three guys for 40, 40 plus minutes on a basketball court. Yes. Yeah. At the end of the day, our star players

are only still playing a third. Those are the true different makers on how far you go as a club. Those third and fourth line guys. I agree. And, you know, if you're talking about putting together a pre-scout for a goalie to make a goalie feel uncomfortable, what you want is you want them to get deeper

into their crease and what does the depth in the lineup usually help you do? It's back the gole off because they're driving the net or their net front screening. Another is screening a goalie on the pass. If a goalie is being screened on the past guys and they arrive late, they are at a massive disadvantage. They're not going to be able to acquire that half of a second and not be able to have that 97% safe percentage. That's the difference between half a second and not half a second. It's 97% safe percentage versus 85%. And the third one is down early. And if you look at the first two goals are a great example last night for Carolina. Dobish is down in a reverse VH. Now, you guys have heard every analyst and every goalie guy talk about the reverse being bad

for the shot at the ear. But I don't see that being the biggest issue here. The first goal and the second goal, the first one, it goes off Kirby Doc, Jankowski, off of D. and it goes to Gossus Bear. And that would be a broken play. But the setup for Dobish being down early in the reverse doesn't allow him to move and gain his angle and his depth to be able to make a save or be able to recover quickly when there's a broken play, like the puck going off dock. So that's where pre-scouting for a team like Carolina can be very effective because they're

a like-minded group. It's not like saying you have different rules for line number one versus line four. They all play that way below the goal line. And if you're reading really well off the goalie that's down early, what's your play? I was on the ice guys for a couple hours this morning with a pro shooter, out for the first time with me. And we were talking about getting from below the goal line and creating offense and hockey. Now, this is a player that plays in France. It doesn't matter if you play in France, Timbuktu or the NHL.

When you're coming from below the goal line, you have to get your players to believe they're still snipers if they can hit. the proper part of the pad that produces a rebound to the slot. When you're shooting from a non-scoring area, an area that you don't want to see your guys shoot to score or miss, wrap it around the wall so the opponent can go down the ice on an odd-band rush. But shoot for team goals, shoot to create. Montreal can do more of that. That's, to me, what Carolina does much better than Montreal.

They shoot for each other. And I think that, Borny, whether you're talking to your son or it's out late night with the zigzags, you guys can talk to your wingers and you can talk about where we're going to be shooting from certain areas to create for us. And it's not an individual play. And always encourage that shooter to know,

hey, man, I'm not taking your sniper ability away from you. You're still a sniper. Yeah, no, I love that, Valley. It's frustrating watching a guy take a wrist shot up high from distance, even at the NHL level. I think, well, we should use some of our time to talk about Vegas and Colorado. you and I are in the same page with the abs throughout this season.

Badly hurt at this point, McCar, McKinnon, Chushkin, everything that kind of makes them go. Goaltening's not been great. What are you seeing out of Colorado? And Valley, Valley? Yeah. Colorado could still win this in the next five games, but they're going to have to change it to a best of nine.

Well, I have a formal apology, and it's right there. That's great. It's okay, Valley. I'll just read the last paragraph. The standards on this Kippin-Pro born program are very high, and they rely on me for insight preparation and hockey expertise. In this instance, I did not meet those standards. I appreciate the patience of the audience during this difficult time.

Very nice. Maybe the best we've ever heard right there. Okay. Well, I'll tell you what, guys, I don't love predictions because they can just bite you with the ass. And the first goal of the very first game, we haven't talked since then, that was the Coglin goal. I was in trouble. I knew I was in trouble. It went five.

It went five. And I'm like, oh, no, oh, no. So here's the deal. When you're looking at goaltending and measuring all things, goaltending in the playoffs and the impact that it has on your team, they can't allow the mid-danger and the low danger. And the issue that I have right now with Wedgwood is that I first of all want to talk about him and then I'll talk about his situation that he's been thrust into. All right. He's only allowed one goal every 3.8 high danger.

Those are great numbers. That means he's stopping the hard ones. You guys remember game three in the first period he faces four grade A chances. He has breakaway saves, rebounds. He, in fact, doesn't face another high danger chance the rest of the game. Okay? And I don't want your viewers or your listeners to not understand where I'm going here, but it's high danger chances that the goalie has to save.

We're not including the ones that just missed the net. But he did not have to make a high danger save the rest of the game. All he had to do was hold the fort. There were mid-danger chances, which are your basic screens from the point. Goleys can manage those and the low-danger shots, anything where the goalie has more than half a second of clear view on it. So you can go back to game number two. where Eichel and Barbashev, they score goals.

Eichols guys, low danger goal. If you can, for the viewers anyways, this is not how you hold an angle, okay? Oh boy, nice graphic. Right. Yeah, exactly. Well, I use that for the goalies that I teach because, you know, if you're a right-handed shot

and you go alongside Borny and you're outside the dots, that's your responsibility. That's your job. Your teammates are going to lock on players and they expect you to make the saves that you're required to make. That's the standard of the team from the goalie coach

through the coaching staff. So when I'm watching the game right now, something maybe is impacting the way that Wedgwood is really covering his angle through the neutral zone. As soon as the play gets over the blue line, he's already off angle. And the issue with goaltending is

if you start a sequence off angle, you never regain angle. And he's off. And he's off because he's standing in his stance, but he's looking with his head, and I think that he feels that he's in the middle of his net, but his body hasn't moved with his head. And I hope you guys understand what I mean by that.

If you look at that graphic, you can see that he is really standing a foot off. And when you give the NHL players that, they're licking their chops and they're going to hit their spots. The issue I have with the overall team, McKenzie Blackwood should be the guy playing. He's making $5.25 million. Okay, he is tonight.

Yeah. But he should be the one all along, right? Sammy, like he's on a five, what is his number? Yeah, it's 525. So it's 26.25 million over the five years of his deal, which began this year. Why are we watching the other guy anyway? I mean, Wedgwood shouldn't even be in the net. So, you know, as much as you want to be hard on him and his $1.5 million, don't forget, it's a lot like the way we could be critical of Stuart Skinner thrust into a position that maybe was way to be hard. too soon or too much for him when it should have been five times five jack campbell at the time it's the same thing so that's why i don't want to be too hard in this guy he shouldn't even have been in the net in the first place it should have been the guy that's getting paid to be the number one valley we're going to get to grill marks or grill time or whatever we call that segment and we're just one more question for you okay out of the remaining goalies where is carter heart for you the most talented the best technical.

Dobish has been lights out, but that guy will find different ways to stop a puck. But where is Carter Hart right now for you if there was a pecking order of goalies left? Yeah, I thought of the four guys that have played so far. And I was looking at Wedgwood, of course, I thought he was the most lost. I thought Anderson was the most nervous.

I thought Dobish is the most enthusiastic, but that's not always the best guy. but talent-wise, skill-wise, it's Carter Hart. When he came into the league until now, not withholding the other conversation with that guy's life, I just wasn't sure that he was able to pull that off because it's a lot to get past guys. It's hard enough to focus on this game

with all the pressure and stress you feel as a goalie. He had so much off-ice, and I wasn't sure about the impact on how that would be for him, but if we're talking talent and skill, he is the most talented and skilled of the four guys remaining. And now five, because we're going to see Blackwood tonight. All right, grill marks.

You guys cool? Let's do it. All right, we're getting to the end of the season here, fellas. Shooting percentage on breakaways. Okay. This playoff, all right? I'm going to talk to you guys about the net itself and where shooters are shooting or are they deeking.

What has had the most, I guess, highest shooting percentage based on the net location? So the first location would be like a deke to the greek to the ground. glove side, which was, it was Jack Drury's goal on his breakaway goal in game three. He deleted the post and that's right. So he went to the glove side on that one. So our choices are glove side deke, blocker side deke, over the glove shot or five hole.

What's the best shooting percentage this playoff for the shooters? Over the glove. Now, guys, just remember Sammy's ice cold right now. Yeah, I hate that my answer is the one you tease. but I think I'm going to say deke to the glove side. Okay, I'll go deke blocker side. All right. I helped you out there, Sammy.

It's over the glove. There you go. There you go. Welcome back, Sammy. You got to make that good saying. I feel like every shot goes in high glove. Okay. Odd man rushes during the postseason.

Over the blocker, under the blocker, over the glove, or under the glove. On odd man rushes with the puck carrier that shoots it. Under the glove. I'll take under the blocker, but I know gloves very popular. I'm going under the glove, too. Under the glove, 38%. That's, um, go gloves, new hook. It's the new hotness.

Yes, it is. You got it, boys. All right, the last one here. Howard goals scored in the 26 Stanley Cup playoffs. I think this is something you guys are going to want to chew on a little bit here. This is a good one. So we're looking at if you take the three different shots, which is a layered screen, a low slot line pass, which is the low,

east to west, one that I talk about every week, or the high east to west, which I call the high slot line. So you take those three different shot chance types, okay? And you take the original chance, the original chance that could produce a rebound that you score off of, or the original chance that has the intent to connect, but actually hits a skater, a shin pad, and causes a broken play. So it is all encompassing. Which one of these three? low slot line, high slot line, or layered screen have the most goals scored this postseason. Layered screen for me. I like layered screen too.

Okay, it's the low slot line. I mean, that seems like the obvious answer. And boys, boys, it's by a long margin. Listen to the low slot line when you break it down for the original chance itself, a rebound that may come off of it or a broken play on the way to. it with intent happening has accounted for 72 goals. Now, the high slot line's 34 and the layered screen is 32. Not even close.

Not even close. So when you see guys throwing it through the crease over and over again and it breaks off something and you get a good bounce, oftentimes you're going to hear folks say throw it to the net good things happen. It's the intent that matters most. Great stuff. Great stuff. Good stuff, Valley.

I'm mad and not picking the obvious. Me too. Okay. All right. We'll see what happens. Thank you, too, pal. Great stuff. Go, Nix, go.

See, boys. Steve Al-A-Kad, everybody. Happy for the Nix. Yeah, go next. I would also say that they are kind of the Leafs. Everyone's like, all the Leafs of the NBA, Leaves are the Knicks of the NHL. I don't love that our Heartbreak brothers are really good and maybe going to win.

Maybe it's an omen. Yeah. They're still up. They're going to be tough against the West. Are they not? For sure. But Oklahoma City's banged up, you know, Wembe first time there. Like they have a real shot.

They're a real shot. It's game time. Presented by Bet365, an official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus. Ontario only, please play responsibly. Looking at tonight, Colorado in Las Vegas, trying to stave off elimination. I don't know how many times you say stave a year, but this is definitely one of them. Only elimination. Yeah, staving it off tonight.

Colorado minus 115 on the money line, Vegas minus 105. predicting a close game. I said to you that I thought that Colorado may extend this series. I don't know. McKinnon is playing tonight. We'll see what he's at. I think Val Nkushkin is a game time decision.

So we'll see what those two guys are looking like. But it's going to be tough for Colorado to find a wrong backups. You're dragging Macar's ass into a game. You're going to drag those guys into. Yeah, you're right. They're playing. You're right. And quickly, just mentioning,

I brought up the Knicks. The other side of it, pivotal game 5 in the Western Conference finals, the San Antonio Spurs in OKC to take on the Thunder. The OKC, OKC is minus 165 in the money line. San Antonio Spurs plus 140. Got to say, love the Spurs tonight. OKC banged up.

Just got those wimby limbs. The only thing that's scary is depends who the refereeing is they can really influence a game in the NBA. So if they got the extender in there, Scott Foster, you never know what's going to happen. But give me the San Francisco. San Antonio Spurs to take a three two series lead tonight. And that was game time presented by Bet365.

An official partner of the NHL must be a team plus. Ontario only, please play responsibly. And as a reminder, this hour of Real Kipperman Born is brought to you by Bet365. Okay, we'll take a quick break. And when we return, we'll go around the National Hockey League. We'll get you set for the Western Conference final. Game four, Colorado, Vegas, 9 p.m. Sammy, nine.

So late. Well, the Jays be done by then? Probably. They'll lose one nothing in an hour and 40 minutes. Can they not lose games like close anymore? Their whole thing last year was just great defense and balls and play. They can't catch or hit. They're just,

they forgot about it. Limiting factors right now. All right. Don't go away. More Real Kipper and Boren after these words. Hey, it's Ben Ennis. And I'm Brent Cunning. We got you covered on all things,

Leafs, Raptors, and Blue Jays every weekday morning, six to nine. It's the fan morning show. Sportsnet 5. to the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born. I'm Justin Born and I'm joined by Sammy McKee. Let's throw it over to him.

Hey, buddy. Hi, how are you? Probably should mention that. I wasn't sure if we were mentioning it. Yeah, I was going to get rid of it. I mean, they might think it's weird if you were just like, yeah, and he had to take off. I just asked him no questions for the last 10 minutes of the show.

You had to point, but he had to run. It's all good. We'll survive the last five minutes here. Time now for the Accura performance matchup, the 2026, Accura MDX, precisely premium. Western Conference final, game four,

Colorado Avalanche at Vegas Golden Nights at 9 p.m. tonight on SportsC. CBC, 9 p.m. Just rude. Yeah. Rude decision. You know what, though?

My kids are kind of out of my hair at like 839, so that's primo for me. I like sleeping by 11.30 bedtime. Like, full disclosure, I dozed off in the second period. It was awake for third and overtime. But anyways,

obviously, the avalanche facing a 3-0 series deficit. Nathan McKinnon has the third most career points when facing elimination in Avalanche Nordique's history. He has 14 points in 15 games played in that situation. He trails Joe Sackick, as you'd probably imagine, who has 22 points and 22 games in that situation for 11 goals and 11 assists.

And Peter Stasney, who has three goals and 13 assists for 16 points and 14 games played. so he's been really good in those situations. I just feel like, you know, they did all this stuff at the deadline, so they weren't just McKinnon McCar, you know, they were going to have the depth. It's going to be cadre. It's going to be Waw with them.

But then you also had, you know, Natius and Colton and Nchuskin and all these guys to chip in. And it just feels like that's not quite happening. Totally. It just really feels like they need. I mean, NAS did score in the first period there. It was nice goal, but then it kind of fell back. Lekinen.

There's been four three-nothing comebacks. we are contractually obligated to talk about these every time a team falls down 3-0. It is the 1942 Stanley Cup champion Toronto Maple Leafs who did it against Detroit Red Wings, which is crazy in the final. The 75 quarterfinals, the New York Islanders over the Pittsburgh Penguins,

2010 Eastern semi-finals where the Philadelphia Flyers did it over the Boston Bruins. And if you remember in that game 7, they were also down 3-0 in game 7. And in 2014, the Los Angeles Kings did it over the San Josek sharks in the first round. So four separate times. I would say if this gets to,

if they win tonight, go back to Colorado, you win in Colorado, it gets weird. I, you know, I think I can say this safely because I don't think we have a pile of Vegas Golden Knight fans that listen to the show. But like, the only reason I could see this being conceivably possible to come back is I think Eichel has the ability to turn into pouty times.

We've seen Marner can get pouty. Torts can get pouty. Oh, yeah. You know, and I don't think Hart's awesome. No. So, like, I do think that Vegas wins the series and whatever. I think they probably, if gone to my head, they win tonight. Yeah.

But I just think, let's say Colorado gets one. McCarre feels a little better. Back to Colorado altitude. They get the one there and all of a sudden. Things get weird. You know, Marner just did that we don't turn on each other thing and things. God, there's huge. That's the only way this.

Anyways, that was the accurate performance matchup, the 2026 Accura MDX precisely premium. So two different things we can talk about here. Yes, sir. I saw Free John with our boy Donnie and Dolly in Vancouver. Yep. Do you have Dolly back on.

We are due for... We just need a Vancouver... One morsel of Vancouver news and we'll get them back on. Well, there is other notes. Go ahead. Apparently they are... The Maple Leafs are working through

a possible David Carl hire. So there's been contact They're talking to him. I don't think there's clearly anything imminent. But this is more than, I think we're at the more than nothing. Yeah. How do you feel about this? I feel like we may feel the same way.

I don't love it. Yeah. I don't love it. It feels like, yeah, he feels like the hot prize, you know, where you feel like you've won something if you make it happen. But I don't know, you look at some of these great college coaches over the years that go to the NFL or go to the NBA or whatever. Even the NHL, HACS doll was a hot Detroit.

name when he came. Where did he come out of? North Dakota. Correct. And there's just no guarantee that it's like that this translates, that they don't have a learning curve. Not to say that he can't or won't eventually be a great coach in the NHL, but you just don't really want him to have his learning curve

in Toronto, I don't think. I think we've tried the rookie coach and rookie general manager and all that stuff here and it hasn't gone particularly well. My biggest worry is that I think the viewpoint of Chica would be that he is a forward-thinking guy.

He can also grow with the group. Sure, but like my worry, and I don't think they're going to be thorough and they're going to interview people, but like it feels almost forward-thinking for the sake of it. Where it's like this guy is the most, the hottest name, youngest guy, we can grow together.

You're going to give him autonomy over the Ross. Like, you're going to have to give this guy a lot when he's won, all he does is win at the collegiate level. You have to give him credit for that. He's an unbelievable collegiate coach. But just. Good as again. Stepping right into this.

at the point that we're at with the temperature of the fan base and the relationship with the stars, it's a big ask. The other thing I'm kind of curious about is like, how much does the front office of the Leafs want to have say in the decisions that the coach makes? Like, do they want to install not a puppet, but someone who will work with them for their ideas? Because if you go and get someone like Laviolet,

who's been around for a long time, and I actually kind of wonder if Carl's like this too, He's done it his way for a long time. I'm curious how much they're going to want to put someone in who has strong beliefs and how it should go versus someone who's like, I want that job. You tell me what you think we should do and we'll do it. Yeah, I just think it's maybe for me, Carl, if they were blowing it up,

if they were trading Matthews. That's how I feel too. If they're going to do this. You're going to be Marty St. Louis at the start of Montreal's rebuilt. Just do Woodcroft. Or just do a guy that's like, you know. In his second or third stint. Just, you know, I feel like there's a spot here to just kind of do something like that

as opposed to reinvent the wheel. But Chike might want to reinvent the wheel. Woodcroft, Davis-Paint. Did you see your boy Stenberg at the World Championship? Yeah, you're not as high on old Steny. No. Listen, I think that he's really good. I think that, like, it's a real, it's going to be, this is gaining momentum.

All I want out of you is to acknowledge that this is not a no-brainer. And you've been really ridiculously stubborn about it. Oh, I think it's a no-brainer. I do. I still think it's a no-brainer, but he's good. Like, I just, I feel that in this culture and the way we talk about it, I feel like I have to downgrade what Stenberg is to prove to you how much I love McKenna. Right.

And I don't really know how other, what other way to do it. But I do think that we are underrating how big of a deal it is at the least are going to get McKenna. I think culturally sometimes we have issued debate on things because we, like our way and we don't even want to think that that way might be possible or give air to it. I think there's a real conversation to be had here. And I, and I have said to you over and over,

and I'm going to say it again now, I'm a McKenna guy. Yes. That's still where my pick is. Good. But I'm not sure. Like, that's who I would pick.

Who do I think is going to have the better NHL career? I'm 50-50. Oh, yeah. Like I think you have to err on the side of McKenna. But this Stenberg stuff, all his comparable, his current play, all the scouts that see him play,

and some of the stuff about McKenna. Sure. This makes me wonder. And speaking of our boy Dolly, I think he was talking about on his show today about them loving Malhotra, maybe at like ahead of Stenberg. So that's what I have written down to talk about.

There's a world where if you're a Chicago Blackawks fan listening to this, he's there. How does that work? Well, I think you would go with the sharks going with the defense. McKenna won, sharks. don't want a forward. They go Chase Reed or they go that Carl's. They go, probably not Bearhoff, but one of those guys.

And then if the Canucks are like, we love Malhotra, they go three, is Stenberg sitting there at four? This is probably all stupid. The sharks will probably just take Stenberg. But it is interesting to me. Like they have Dickinson there as a young defenseman in the sharks. But if they could find a way to get Chase Reed and kind of build from the back end, plus what they have up front, obviously.

I saw out of Vancouver, Thomas Trance, who obviously falls him closely, knows knows this stuff pretty well. I was talking about how Stanberg's a risky guy to pass on. I don't care if you like Mel Haltrow. He's the center. He's a little bigger. It's like this guy,

there's not many huge names in the drafts. But it's funny. You know, you go back through these drafts and you and I went back through a few before the show. There's some ugly drafts in there. Totally. And you kind of got to pick the guy you like. So here I am saying you don't want to pass

on Stenberg, but at the same time, it's not a pick who you truly believe is going to be the dude. I was watching a bit of the Mem Cup. as I'm known to do. I just see the fights come across my time. That tilt between the kid on Everett and the kid on Kitchener

was insane Kitchener's just running through this thing. They look great. But, you know, I'm, Leaf fan thrilled. He's got the first overall pick. But I am a little sour that they got the pick sour between sandwich between Matthew Schaefer. And this DuPont.

I don't know if you've seen any of the highlights. I have. He is breathtaking. He's got that like, Quick Twitch, McCar, Schaefer. Like, he looks like he's going to be that type of guy. So I'm not going to complain about the first overall pick, but hopefully you don't have first overall next year. Well, they have to hand that to the flyers.

Since we're just doing a Leafs blog here, did you happen to see the video of Nealander and Nye's seeing them get the first overall pick? I did. What was your takeaway? I think that Willie loves the Leaf. Yeah. I don't love a lot of stuff about him at times, but he did seem genuinely excited and I like that. I was just like, thank God.

There's another guy who can move it. Nyes is probably like, am I still on the power play? I'm hanging on for dear life. All right, big thanks today to Steve Valacette. Always has tons of... Oh, we're not on tomorrow. Wonderful content.

Oh, we're not on tomorrow. We're not on tomorrow. We're not on tomorrow. We will see you on Thursday. Tonight, nine o'clock. Tune in. You got your Colorado. You got your Vegas.

Mitch Marner can go to the Stanley Cup final stand. I know you're going to be glued to it. And then tomorrow, if Montreal can hang on, get one man. Carolina is starting run away with things. We will see you guys tomorrow. Thursday.