Real Kyper & Bourne - Vally's View: How Are Pucks Getting Past Goalies?

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

Steve Valiquette joins Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne (6:45) to chat about the fallout from the Edmonton Oilers' loss to the Buffalo Sabres, Joseph Woll's return in net for the Toronto Maple Leafs, Anthony Stolarz's regression in blocking shots and connection to a weak defence, the correlation between shot attempts being down while pucks are still getting by goalies, and Jonathan Quick taking charge in a post-game brawl. Then on Grill the Panel, Steve asks how much a goaltender can move on a left-sided faceoff, when goaltenders should start backing up on an offensive breakaway, and more. To wrap up, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee touch on Evan Bouchard's case for a spot on Team Canada.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

It's the National Hour, Unreal Kipper and Bourne. If you can't tell, Sammy changed the jersey. A ride. Two straight days, bud. Two straight days. What a week we're having. He is starting to get focused now that he's over the Jays. Oh.

I'm not Jays, man. Kick his feet out from under him before he starts running. We're alive. I'm on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, Sportsnet 960 in Calgary and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. If you don't catch us live, find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. This hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, in for the full hour.

Yeah, doing the full one. And our very own Sammy McKee in a few minutes, we'll welcome in Steve Aliquette. It is Tuesday, which means a little different breakdown of what we see around the National Hockey League in his own special way, Valley will join us. In the meantime, those Edmonton Oilers. They looked good last night. Right? Against the team that, I don't know, people expected them to win.

Yeah. Yeah, the Oilers are an interesting case right now. Like trying to make sense of why they look the way they look. Yeah. Process ain't pretty. You know. I know why they look like it. But David and Drysidal, you can't expect them to bring it for 82 games.

They're playing the most have ever played in their careers. But they, there's nothing left after every game. They will, as they say, have pissed every last drop. Well, I sent you guys that chart from natural stat trick last night about the on-off stuff with them. Yeah. This year, they have 23% of the net goal share with them off the ice. They've got nine goals for with them off the ice and 30 goals against with them off the ice at 5 on 5. So it's been like they play and they win.

They're not on the ice and they're- They don't win. Calgary. Yeah. That's been a trend. To your point, though, it's never been this draft. No, like, I mean, that chart that I said had a bunch of different numbers on it. Years, right, yeah. Years.

And, like, they've been low, but they haven't been near 23%. Like, it's been in the more 40 range or low 50. Anyways, Trent Frederick fought Matthew Olivier. And then, again, since then, has just went right back to nap time. You should try to fight a puck into the net. You should punch it right from that. He's got one. Yeah.

Is that his only point? Do they want, hey, for the least, do they want like Dakota Joshua and Edmonton or something? Would you take eight years of Trent Frederick at 3.8 million? No. No, I can't have that. Can't have almost $4 million. I don't think he's this, though. He's not this.

In 21 games, he has... In 21 games, he's one goal, and he's a dash 8. I've seen him be good. I just don't understand how you can make a trade for a pending free agent and then feel like to justify it, you have to give him eight years. I just don't understand that. I guess, so he was a pending UFA? Yes.

like what would he someone would have given him seven and as a free agent out there even if they did I'll bet you almost anything that teams would have given them the same but stopped it at five or six years like to go eight

to me on a on a depth guy anywhere from seven to 12 in your lineup to get eight years is find me another example of that in salary cap history the pierre engval how's that going uh the

one two the nerds out there uh will tell you that that's just the worst thing you can do is overpay the depth you can find depth you can move depth you need flexibility with your depth there's oiler fans screaming up the radio being like oh you guys are talking about Trent frederick they have given up the third most goals in the league they're ahead of the maples they've given up 73 goals this year and they're third worst in the league. So they're like,

Trent Frederick, that's where you want to start? It's like, we can't get it safe. Issues, pals. It's, where do you go? Yeah.

Where do you look? Well, I mean, Hyman helped. You're kind of thinking some of this is injury. They need R&H. Like, they need every piece of their elite

guys to be elite. And when they don't have them, it slots guys wrong. And it looks thin. I'll also say, You know, last year they got Skinner and Arvetson and people went, ah, these guys aren't great.

And then these guys weren't great. Didn't move the needle a tonne playoffs. They were like, okay, this time we'll get Mangiopani, who's just being the next version of that, Curtis Lazzar. You know, like, they haven't changed, essentially. But they lost a lot of that edge.

They lost Perry and Brown and Kane and a lot of these guys that were a little bit more feisty. They're not as mean. And proven NHLers. Yes. Like proven N. But that's why Frederick is so disappointed because you're like, we need someone to be mean.

Aren't you the mean guy? Didn't we pay you for the meanness? And like they were touting that eyes a coward and he's now in Bakersfield, doesn't he? Like, it's... Corey Perry. Yeah. Everything hurts.

Corey Perry. How... Probably should just pay him. How... How... We thought maybe six years ago he was done. This guy just keeps...

Keeps on... ...going. It's crazy. So we heard earlier today, Bradtree Living, talking about his hockey club being without enthusiasm. Who's got more than that guy? Who loves it more than Cory Perry?

Brad Breschard. At least only had seven separate chances to sign Cory Perry and have never done it. It's not like he ever wanted to be a leaf, right, Kipper? But you have to, yeah, he would have taken it for sure five or six years ago. Like he took it in Montreal, like he took it in Edmonton, right? Canada's been real good to him.

Yeah, yeah. It's prolonged his career. Yeah. But that's where you, Lou Lamarillo has always said it. Know what you have. That's the key. Know what you have.

And we know what we have with Steve Alicat. We sure do. Hey? Valley. Welcome aboard. Analyst for the New York Rangers on MSG and CEO of ClearSight Analytics. How are you, my friend?

O.P.C. These are O.P.C. Original. These used to hang in my basement, Borny, around the pool table. So, definitely bringing back my teenage years here. It's funny because I'm looking at this sheet. I've got Sean Burke, who I copied his style.

Patrick Waz to my left. The only jersey I ever bought is over my left shoulder, Darren Pang, who you guys had on last week and just below that was uh is john van vizbrook worst roommate i ever had did you have to buy two pangs to get and sew them together to fit you well i was i was 12 when i was uh yeah because it was rock and sockham hockey and there was a whole segment on darren pang glove saves and i hope he remembers that because i do i was about 12 years old valley we're going to get into a ton including uh jonathan quick in that uh brawl that he started

but we were just coming off of the Edmonton Oilers and as difficult as a start as it's been for the Edmonton Oilers, they're still like squeezing everything that they can out of McDavid and dry sidle. But like what's going to be left out of them in the back half of the season, including a trip to the Olympics? You know, a couple weeks ago we were talking about scoring chances with time and space, specifically high danger scoring chances. And Edmonton's in the bottom 10 right now.

Every year, the bottom 10 teams don't make the playoffs. So I know that the goalies take a lot of heat. And guys, the one thing I oftentimes remind people of is that Jack Campbell should still be there. He should be in year four of a five-year, $25 million deal. Skinner just happens to be a backup goalie that's playing as a starter. and now in one of the hardest environments. It's very difficult to play there as a goalie when you can't read off of your teammates

because a goaltender is reading off of the positioning of his own players and that determines the math that he's doing with where he gets to stand in his crease, whether he's challenging or he's going to have to back up. I learned this lesson when I played in the KHL. Played in the NHL, I get sent down at clear waivers, my next trip is to Red Army, CESCA, Russia. And I'm telling you guys, the first game that I'm in,

I could see the play coming towards me off the rush, and I can read my back checkers going to cut the ice in half, and I get walked. And I'm saying to myself, how is that even possible? I saw my guy. I watched the video after the game, and that guy stopped skating at the blue line, and that allowed the player to cut across and score.

I would have had a different depth. I stayed a little back because I knew there was a pass, but not somebody that was going to get across. That's what it's like playing for the Edmonton Oilers right now for Stu Skinner. He's having a hard time on top of, to be fair, you know, he's not a true starter, but he's been pushed into that role, and now he's dealing with all of these difficult reads. Watch any game right now from them, and you can say that that's time and space,

that's time and space go through the goals and if it's more than a stick length guys you can give a shooter the ability to go north with the puck south east west if you have a stick length on them or even two and you can take away two of those four

options it becomes a very easy game to read for any goalie yeah it's been a challenge I know pickards had a tough go this year so the two of them trying to figure it out for the Ibson Oilers Toronto Maple Leafs got Joseph Wolbeck He made his debut against the Chicago Blackhawks.

Not sure if you had a chance to catch it Valley, but pretty good return. I thought he looked terrific. And, you know, I heard your stat on going into third period with wool and net. I think you said it was 32 and O. Yeah. And, you know, that was the only part of the game. I was nervous, Borny, was the most pressure game state-wise that a goal he feels is up by a goal.

Yeah. And specifically up by a goal going into the third period. when you've got 18 minutes to think about it before you get back out there if you're trying to gain your confidence again. And that's what he's going through, right? He's trying to get his mental confidence back. So I thought, going into that third period, I'm like, all right, how's he going to handle this? Now, the two goals that were scored, they weren't, I know that Tara Vinen's looks like high danger, but it was on one side of the ice and Wall went down early on it, which is why the move worked and it looked terrific but typically that would be a save for him and the deflection

goal i thought that was a really good deflection out of the air bouncer like i was like you know that's one of those tip your caps but i thought overall i think i had him for 10 scoring chances three high danger scoring chances and i know there was two goals but he to me looked really solid on all of his saves in the third period so you know over the entire course that the game. I think the start was kind of hard for him too because he gave up the first one and that's you know where you're kind of fighting it a little bit or excuse me

no I got that wrong they scored they were ahead right now I forget but anyhow the third period I was impressed you're watching and listening to C Valacad analyst for the Rangers CEO's clear site analytics so you mentioned Skinner is not

not a true starter we heard from Brad Tree Living today talking about Stolars where he may be in a similar feel in terms of, you know, where he is. He talked about him maybe being a little overwhelmed with a workload this year. But my question to you is, how does a team with predominantly the same guys on the blue line look so good last year blocking shots? And when they did get through, Stolars was there to make the save. But now it just seems like those block shots are gone.

And, you know, at times Stolars got beat clean. But, like, how does it go from top in the league to bottom of the league so quickly? You know, two years ago, I felt like I saw that happening with the Rangers. They were defending really well through the first couple months of the season. And then there was a narrative around the team that they weren't scoring at five on five. And Panarin, Sabana, Jed, cried her even at the time. Everybody was just kind of pushing a little more for offense and cheating on the wrong side of the puck. and everybody knows what that leads to.

And I think that it's a tough narrative for the scores to hear because they want to get their points. And I get it. They don't want to hear that you can't score at five on five. And they know the reason why they're not scoring at five on five is because they're playing so responsible by a few more feet to defend, which is the right thing to do for the team. And I wonder when I watch the Leafs play and how loose they're playing

and how they look a little too carefree for me. and not winning pucks that you're expecting them to win. I'm watching the game. I'm like, guys, that's yours. Go for it. And they're not willing to do that. And I think that that runs through the lineup so quickly. Your trust is either built or broken in the first three weeks of any season with your goalie,

knowing where to stand in his crease dependent on box out or fronting or even playing a two-on-one. Following the Rangers as closely as I do. two Saturdays ago guys they give up three two on one goals to the Islanders and they get spanked at home 5-0 but you have to realize that the next time Shosturkin plays

how do you think he's going to play the two-on-one he's going to back up because he doesn't trust his D is going to cover the pass and unless those things are worked out beforehand through video and the coaching and your support then you don't know what to believe in when the puck drops

and it's not the same for every goalie either. I remember the Leafs when Frederick Anderson was there. The idea to play a two-on-one with him guys was to not allow the puck carrier to shoot it because he was getting killed low blocker. He wasn't very good on the shot. So they were pressing more and they allowed the early pass. So it's not the same for everybody. It depends on your goalie strengths. When I watch the Leafs right now, though I feel there's something that's broken between Stolars and the Team D. But I think that also reflects the Team D being cookie monsters a little bit. Yeah, that a bit of a theme that does make some sense.

Belly, wanted to get your thoughts on something we've talked about a little bit this season. Shot attempts are down around the NHL, as you know. They're below 28 per year right now, or sorry, per team per game, save percentage down to 897. Corsey was invented by Jim Corsey, as they, I believe, Buffalo Sabres, goalie coach at the time, who wanted to measure a goalie's workload. He was saying it's not just shots on net that tire a goalie out. It's shot attempts. You're going down, you're moving, it's making you work.

How does this affect goalies as I assume their workload has gone down if there's less attempts, but more pucks are going in on average. What do you think about this shift in offense? I think that it's difficult to play. So what I was looking at before we got on was, you know, I spend my Tuesdays always going through what happened the previous week. It just works out well, plus I get to share it with you guys. So the low east to west, that has gone in more than any other scoring chance, and they're

happening more frequently. We talked about that last week. The second scoring type that's going in the most this year is the high east to west. So that's an east to west pass above the hash marks. The low east to west would be below the hash marks. That's how goals are being scored right now. You may think it's layered screens and it's net traffic and it's point shots, but that's a little further down the ledger. That's chance type number four.

Slot one timers is chance number three that's going in the most, and screen deflections is chance type number five. I was watching the Vancouver game the other night against Tampa Bay. They gave up four net front chances, so that would qualify for those layered screens and screen deflections and the broken plays that come off the point. So those are definitely there, but that's the second tier of scoring. The first tier of scoring in the NHL right now is the east to west. And I must add, breakaways are going in at a very high clip right now. There have been 97 breakaways that have been scored this year. Teams are getting more breakaways.

And look, I was watching the Carolina game last night against Boston. Like, they're giving up the most rush chances in the league, but they're having the most fun. like they are gone they lean in and have all five going on every turn of possession but they're giving up the most breakways and i think that a lot of teams there are quite a few teams that are giving up more off the rush than they typically do and that's great through the regular season but it's not going to get you through you need to be a top five rush defense to win a stanley cup and that's where i think carolina is going to fail again this year no team gets the puck to the net more than carolina But is that, to your point, turnover and then a rush up against you? Yeah, they also take the most shots where the goal has clear view. And when they miss the net, it just rims around the boards and then it goes the other way. And I think that for the last five or seven years, it's been they've led the league in low danger shots that turn into high danger the other way. And that's where they hurt themselves, whether they're just going and then, you know, get stuck or one pass doesn't work and they get, you know, beat up against them.

or they're in zone and they're taking shot after shot trying to regain possession. But somewhere along that line, you know, the dominoes fall against them and they're giving up a rush the other way. Valley, no team can touch the Colorado avalancheer so it seems to start the quarter of the season here. Their goal differential is plus 31.

The next closest, I think, is half of that with Carolina. There's Pittsburgh and Chicago, probably around 12 and 10. I look at the east. No team in the black in the Atlantic division. Boston leads with zero differential and everybody else

in the Atlantic is in the red. Like, what does this mean? It means that we need Derek Brandeo to give us a mid drop. So Colorado, Colorado is so far ahead of everybody right now, and they continue to stay far ahead of everybody. Those markers that I was talking about last week, guys, there's eight of them.

They have six where they're in the blue, top five. And they're not just top five as in four or five. They're number one. They're number two. The only place they were having difficulty two weeks ago they've corrected it was on their power play. They were taking too many clear-sighted shots from the perimeter. Even Cal McCar was a big offender, but it seems to me like he's cleaned it up

because they've kind of turned the corner there and their power play is starting to click. So to me, they're the most dangerous team in the NHL. When I look at the teams that I think we can say are on their way out and don't have a shot, I'm looking at Vancouver because there are four markers in the red minus. I'm looking at Philadelphia.

Mid. There it is. Great drop. Great job. But, you know, Boston, Columbus, and New Jersey are really good rush teams. And I wonder if Carolina gets one of those in the first round, if it's a tough matchup for them. And look, I was, again, watched Boston last night. I do think that Swayman looks like he's all the way at least close to back to where he was, too.

I thought, you know, he looked really sharp. And that's good for Boston. I know, what was it, eight in a row that they won fellas? I think it was eight before I lost last night. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm still thinking about some of this stuff and how it's been affecting the Leafs.

I know we're not in our Leafs, I don't know we're not in our Leafs, I don't know we're not in our Leafs, the last one on the Leafs. But they've allowed a league leading 26 goals within 10 seconds of a turnover, trailing only the Edmonton Oilers 30 in St. Louis Blues. So they're, sorry, third in the league. So giving up a lot of goals off quick turnovers, quick strikes. Is that something that goaltenders can be good or bad, Is that something that affects you in any way?

The play turning around that quick? Yeah, definitely. You know what really affects you is getting your ice for a breakaway because the element of surprise sometimes stuns the goalie and they don't take their ice? I think I've told you guys this story before, but I'll go back to this is years ago. Take your ice.

You mean coming out to back up with the play? Correct. Correct. So, which is going to tie into our heat the grill later on. All right. I've got some questions on. goaltending for you guys. But this happened when Jacob Marksham was in Vancouver, and I was going through the data, and he was the best safe percentage goalie on breakaways at the time in the

NHL, but he was the worst on partial breakaways, and partial breakaways are usually coming off of turnovers. So I was going through the video, and you can see it, Borny. He would come out and grab a lot of ice, like as in four feet, if he could see and recognize early enough through the neutral zone that a breakaway was about to come. And then, conversely, a partial break, where somebody falls down, there's a breakdown, or your defenseman gets walked, he would just stay stationary in his crease and then get stuck and get deeped,

or you can shoot around him because he hasn't come out to challenge it. It gives a much different look to the shooter when you come out and challenge, and you want to essentially take away the shot. If you talk to any goalie about what they want to accomplish on breakaways, you know, we all know there's two options. The shot or a deek, but if you can come out far enough

and at least let the shooter believe that the shot isn't an option, an option and force deke now i'm thinking as a goalie okay you know i'm forcing them to deke and that's one way that i have to think and that's how i'm going to play this but you know the answer is like yeah it depends a lot on where you are reading off of your own teammates look i i've said this a lot over the years to the goalies that i work with and it's like when they ask me about the nchl i always say guys it's the easiest league to play in as far as reading off of your teammates comparing my time in the NHL to reading the play versus in the East Coast League,

completely different conversation, right? And the difference with the NHL for a goalie is you're going to see 1% of the things you've never seen before. And that's where goals are scored. Like, I remember one of the first goals I gave up, Yager was to the left of me, playing against Pittsburgh. I was with the Islanders, Borny, and he's to the left of the post. He receives the puck on his backhand.

He's a lefty. He brings it forehand. corner over my blocker and I'm saying to myself what the F was that like what was that I had no idea what that was and I look up to see who it was and he takes his glove off and he does the salute because it was the year that he used to do that it was like 99,000 and funny enough I got chirped all summer from my buddies back home because at that time the advertisement on the commercial was the coolest game on earth and the end of the commercial was yager saluting with me on one day.

Of course. Sad face. That's great. Valley, speaking of one percent of the things that we've never seen before, a bench clearing brawl at the end of the game in modern day NHL.

Jonathan Quick. What were you thinking when you saw it? Okay, so Quick, this guy, I've known him since he was a teenager. He actually lives local. I'm in Milford, Connecticut. He's born and raised in Hamden, Connecticut. So I've known this guy.

He is an amazing competitor. I don't have to tell you guys that. But if you know him, he is a gentleman off the ice. Like the nicest civilian and then puts the helmet on and becomes somebody else. And those, to me, are the best goalies. And he's so competitive that he follows the old school rules that we all agreed upon once upon a time. And he wants to enforce them. But he also wants to send a team that's one seven and one.

at home his team a message like we're not going down like this like this is not allowable in our rink and whether it was real or manufactured right he wanted something to happen here he wanted something to happen here now you can see Panarin and Zabana's advantage I escaped by and he is hot he wanted somebody to answer for it so he answered for it and you know what everyone jumped in everybody backed him up and funny enough that it's Mason Appleton guys that it because a good friend of mine works with him on the skills side. And he was telling me that Mason Appleton,

he told me this summer how competitive he is. And he was telling me a story about how he's at a wedding this summer. And he, like, takes his shirt off because there was a basketball hoop there. And, like, two seconds later, they're like, they're in a fist fight playing basketball, right, with his shirt off. And they're at a wedding. So you take a guy like Mason, who is that type of a competitor, which is why he's in the NHL. And I'm sure he does, he takes the dagger a little bit, but he probably knows what he does know what he's doing

because he's also that type of competitor. You know, guys, I did a Chase Bank marketing alumni appearance with John Starks last week. And John Starks is known for the New York Knicks, but his known was, Kipper, you remember his jump over Jordan? Oh, yeah. So he posterized Jordan. And so we're talking.

And we've done a few of these together, and we were talking about the last dance. You know, Michael Jordan talking about how he would make stories up about how that guy said something to me. And I heard what he said, and then I went out and dropped 50 on him in the same quarter after he had 55 in a game. And there's a motivation there that comes from manufacturing it during a season. And I'm just saying that Quick understands that. And he was trying to, whether it was real or imagined, manufacture something. bring everybody up a level. We heard from general manager

Brad Tree Living today and he spoke about the Leafs and one of the concerns, he's got many that are keeping them up at night, but right, one of the concerns is the lack of enthusiasm. Not a lot of, and I took that personally. And now you just showed us and we just saw the Viz, for those of you

watching at home and the gap between that enthusiasm from Quick and then Zabanajad and Panarin who just, you know, Is the gap from teammate to teammate on that sort of stuff widen a lot in the last few years? Well, like Kipper, look at how the leagues changed

over the last 20 years, and a lot of that is the personality of the different countries that we were raised in and where we played our hockey. We're different. We're very different. The Western Canadian kids that I played with were much different than the Toronto kids or the Scarborough kids. Well, Westerners were nuts.

I know. Ontario, we were like, you know, You know, we felt like we were kind of calm. The Westerners were like, oh, it's going to be a rodeo. Gipper, I don't know how you felt, but I felt like they were really nice and quiet until we went out for beer. And all of a sudden, they just went like straight animal.

And I'm like, oh, my God, where this comes from? This is the way we do it out West. I'm like, oh, my God. You know, so you look at that. And I oftentimes do. And you have different personalities from different countries. I don't expect Mika Zabanajad, who was raised in Sweden,

to behave like I do. And I'm from Bolton, Ontario, 10,000 population when I was growing up. It's just not the same thing. So we're trying to create that culture and say, these are our rules. But I just think that you want to manufacture it. I found out when I was playing for the Erie Otters, we were down three games to nothing against the London Knights. And there was this tough guy.

I think his name was Mike Mazuka, and he was at the red line, just chirping me, Kipper, just giving it to me, giving it to me. And I kind of liked it because it was like firing me up. we were down three nothing we won that game's next game does the same thing i just i fed off it and we pushed it to seven games we don't have losing two to one in game seven but i felt like manufacturing that and sometimes you get help from somebody on the other team to make that happen i had to go there it's not for everybody but i had to be pissed off i liked playing pissed off where you get in trouble is when you fake sincerity what are you getting at right now no that some

guys try to do it and they're not really that good at it that's when you really get in trouble as a teammate. Right. When you bluff it. Yeah, I mean, I know, as far as deal cutters and that type of stuff, for sure. Correct. There was a time when I remember, there was a time in the American League where guys were setting up their fights before we were even getting into the next city.

That was a weird time. We're past that. Junior hockey used to be assigned in our dressing room. Hey, you're fighting so-and-so of the spirit. We should probably plug in the George Foreman here. Yeah, we've got a fire at the grill. Based on the time, I think. Oh, yeah.

All right. Okay, hold that. Do we have a standings? Yes, I'm so organized this week. Check it out. I'm all organized. All right. All right.

So Kipper, 15 points. McKee 11, born, nine. Ouch. You've got to come back here. All right. Now, this one's going to, I'm going to either have my feelings hurt or I'm going to be very proud of you guys. I've been with you guys for five years.

I've talked a lot of goaltending. There are certain rules in goaltending that I've covered on this show before. and I want to see who's been paying attention. All right. A goaltender in his stance at the top of the crease and the shots coming off of the left face-off dot. How wide is the opening to the net? Now, we know the opening to the net in the middle of the ice is six feet wide,

but off the dot, if the goal is at the top of the crease, how much does he really have to move? Is the opening three feet? Is it three and a half feet or four feet? I feel pressure here I think it's three and a half I got three I think it's three

three and a half oh you needed that you needed that all right next one on a clean breakway so this is what I was referring to earlier when should a goalie start

backing up is it when the puck carrier crosses the blue line when he's 15 feet over the blue line or when he crosses the top of the circles. I'm going to go ahead and say 15 feet. I know you're supposed to take the ice when they cross the blue. Read the play, something like that.

So start back up. I'm going to say 15 feet. I'm Googling Mike Richter and Pavelberry right now. Hold on. I got to take a look. I'm going blue line. You'll be able to figure it out if you did that. You know what?

No, I'm going to go top of circles. I'm changing my answer to top of circles. I'm going to go blue line. Top of circles Back, baby Wow, big one for morning All right And you know who did it really well last night

Was Swayman Swamen, he did it twice Two really nice breakaway saves in that game Lefty coming down the left side Now this is about dragging the puck We oftentimes talk about how When you drag the puck towards the middle You're essentially opening up the net

A few more inches So, for every blank, for every how many inches, is the puck dragged towards the middle of the ice, does the available net open by one inch? Is it every two inches the puck is dragged, opens the net an inch? Is it every three inches or is it every four inches? This is awesome stuff. I think it's four inches. Yeah, I go four. I think it's the most.

Yeah, me too. Yeah, I just got it. rink. I'll take three just because I'm chasing the game here. Four inches. Dang. I killed myself, too. Not bad for a guy I think they should replace goalie with a piece of plywood.

You know why I did that, McKee, because that really hurt my feelings. I know you guys know I'm listening to you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Malley. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You're the only goalie I truly love. Oh, thank you. Was that the last one? That was the third

one, boy. Oh, that was a bonus one then. I missed that one. That was huge. Hey, when are you going to get your butt up here so we can go to a steakhouse? Which one are we picking? Well, we're working on a few deals, guys. We're working on it.

A few options to pick from. Just mail us. Highest better. Mail us ponderosa coupons while we're out of it. Get the train and get to New York City. Great stuff, as always, pal. Thanks for doing this. See you, boys.

Thanks, Valley. Have a good one. Valley on Tuesdays It's gold Great regret about my last answer That Pulling the He's unbelievable

Is Bedard's toe drag It's absurd The amount of distance He changes it From the one side of the other It's out of And then what he gets on it He's actually a combination

Of Matthews and Martin That's high price He is He skates and he can pass And he just And then he shoots It's next level stuff right now game time it's game time

somebody's rushing me over there Derek it's game time presented by bet 365 visit the athlete assods and see why it's never ordinary at bet 365 must be 19 plus Ontario only please play responsibly I was going to try to figure out here

who is favored to win the Atlantic division and I'm looking at it right now who do you think is favored to win the Atlantic division because we were talking about this in our, at the end of our first block about how it's such a poo-poop platter. He talked about it a little bit with Valley there.

Who do you think the favorite is? Tampa Bay. It is. Tampa Bay is the favorite at plus 210. Florida next at plus 280. Montreal 3rd plus 450. Ottawa plus 525. Not bad value there in the sense.

Then it's the Leafs at plus 850. Ouchy. Red Wings, Bruins, 25 to 1. Bruins currently leading a division. Sabres 80 to 1. So that's what, that's what Bet365 thinks of our conversation.

Well, I think that's probably right. Yeah, that sounds pretty good. Yeah, sounds pretty good. Looking at the other divisions, all pretty, you know, Colorado is minus 225 to win the Central. Dallas plus 275, and then it goes all the way down to plus 1,400 for the jets. The Carolina hurricanes are big faves in the Metro,

minus 120, devil's there at plus 175. And then the Pacific Division's a little bit more interesting. bet 365 has Vegas as the favorites at plus 150 Wow LA Kings plus 250 Ooh what do we get on the oilers Oilers are plus 300 right now Ducks plus 550

And then it just crashes off a cliff Seattle crack and plus 3,300 is the next favorite According to Bet 365 So interesting stuff there Yeah And quickly just going to look at the games tonight on the ice I just wanted to have a quick look at the Leafs line Minus 105 for the blues

minus one 15 for the Leafs. So the Leafs are now basically even money against one of the worst teams in the league. So it tells you a lot of what... They are one of the worst teams. Yeah. Yeah, you may be right. Anyways, that was game of time presented by Bet365.

Visit the at Flatest Odds and see why it's never ordinary at Bet365, Mr. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. All right, we'll take a quick break here. As Sammy alluded to, eight games on tap. We'll get into that, including the Canucks Road Trip ending with a defensive disaster. David Camp was great last night, I heard.

That and more when we returned to Real Kipper and Bourne. Hey, it's Aylish Forafar. And I'm Justin Cuthbert. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame. 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet, Sportsnet, the fan, and wherever you get your podcasts.

As a reminder, this hour of Real Kippper and Born brought you by Bet 365. Nick Gibreos, Justin Borenz, Sammy McKee. Justin. Yes, my turn. You... No, you put out a tweet today that got the people going. It's provocative.

It gets the people going. It's provocative. The Oilers not even close to good enough in last place, lost the Sabres. Yeah, spec was not... We're going to reward Evan Bouchard with a trip to Italy for the Olympics. So here, I won't read the tweet verbatim, but I basically said... All right, basically, I've had enough of the whole debate. I've put in a lot of thought.

He should be on Team Canada. Now, you just love the offense. Let me back up some of the points here. You're allowed to take 70 to the Four Nations face-offs. You can take eight to the Olympics. So you've already named your seven? So last year, the eight they took, they actually took not, or sorry, took eight because, remember, there's an injury in Harley went?

Yeah, yeah. So the eight they had were McCarr, Morrissey, Paraco, Doughty, Theodore, Taves, Harley, and Sanheim, Travis Sanheim. So that's 8D, and you're all set right there. So for me, Travis Sanheim has a goal and five assists. He's negative in terms of driving play for Philadelphia. And I don't know. Like he's just, he's not like a massive needle mover.

Like, what's this game state where you're like, get Travis Sanheim out there? There's not a ton for me. But there are situations where you'd be like, get Evan Bouchard out there. And if you had a hockey team and I were to offer you players and say you can pick between this guy or that guy, the available D to add someone. Let's say you're taking someone out. Maybe Douty's hurt. Maybe Stanham comes out. If you're adding a D.

The next options are Noah Dobson, Matthew Schaefer. Okay. So I'll hear that argument. But we mentioned the other day, there's some defensive hord still. He's a kid. And there's still plenty. of hockey to go here. But I think he's not, like this guy,

continue. Okay, McKenzie Weger, having a not great year in Calgary. Mike Matheson in Montreal, no, Morgan Riley, Brandon Montour in Seattle. I'll hear Montour. Yeah, I got.

I still want to have a chart over Montour. I'm not sure. Yeah, that's fine. I'm not sure. I'm open to Montour. Yeah, Montor, and he has been focused from day one on this. I know.

And Seattle's, take a little, Look at what Seattle's done. But it's possible that your doubties out week to week right now. Yeah. You know, Colton Pereco hasn't exactly set the world on fire this year. We're like, got to have Colton Pereko. Evan Bouchard in playoffs, in regular season, his points per game are 0.69. In the playoffs against top teens, 1.08.

Oh, he could shoot it in the night. Over a point per game against Dallas, Vegas, big minute muncher in the postseason. Well, there has to be some reason he's making 10 and a half sheets. For sure. And so I just don't think it's absurd to be like... Not absurd. I'll give you that. To be like, I don't know.

I'll take him over any of these things. And you live with a... Well, maybe you should have turned left there. But I won't live with that in these games. But have you watched Travis Sandheim? Do you know if he turns a buck over? I bet he does. Travis Sandheim isn't in my top six.

Does Noah Dobson turn it over? But these guys aren't in my top six. I'm not saying he's going to be your top six. I'm taking eight guys. But if I'm taking eight guys, sure, you can take him as one of the guys and Schaefer's the other guy. And those guys can have great views from the stands for the gold medal game. If you get shut out by the Americans in the first game and you can't crack a, you know, the Czech Republic, you're going, maybe we got to put a puck mover in, boys.

We can't get her going here. But you don't think Kail McCar and Josh Morrissey and Shane Theodore and Drew Doughty and Thomas Harley? I could be able to move the puck. You're talking yourself out of taking the most effective players because McCar missed the last tournament with an injury. He played. Who was it that got hurt? He did it. He did it.

Theodore missed. And Theodore got hurt. And McCarr missed a game, too. The game against the Americans, he missed. But, like, it happens. And all of a sudden, you're going, listen. Mitch Marner's PP1 point, if you don't have McCar.

You've got a case. Josh Morris, he can't step in there and stop it around? Can, not as well as Evan Bouchard can. You've talked to me into, I'll think about it. I know. I know, I know. Yeah, what would he know? Yeah, a lot.

If we had Chris Bronger, I'd put him on eight times. Not your top four. No. Okay. And you would put it with your best defensive guy. I don't think he's that right there. He's not, so, to be clear, yes.

The six guys for me. Yep. Is McCar-Taze is your top pairing. Okay. Theodore Morrissey. Theodore Morrissey. Harley-Dowdy. Harley-Dowdy.

Harley and Doughty are both hurt right now. So you have. That's my six. No Pereco, no Sanhine. Correct. And I actually thought, I actually thought Perico was pretty good at the Four Nations. I thought he surprised.

The blues have been dreadful, and I don't know if you can, like, the scary thing is, is that, you know, Robert Thomas has also placed the blues, and Pareko plays the blues, and Doug Armstrong is putting this team together. He's the guy that, so, but that for me is an easy six. And then sure, if you want to take, I would even rather take Bouchard and, or Pereko and Schaefer, somebody, like, Bushard being involved in a big game against, like, the States or something is a horrifying thought to me. I have to be honest with you.

love it, pal. I don't love it. I don't love it. But we're doing the same thing with goalies where you go, you're taking the best ones. You don't get to pick guys who you don't have. No Petro Angelo sucks. No Petro Angelo sucks. Bad. He was one of our guys. Yes. He was one of our guys. Vegas thinks it sucks too. Yeah, they're not, they haven't been

great. They haven't been great, but they've lost six times in overtime this year. It's not, it's not looking as ugly as some other teams are with their losses. No, I mean, I don't have any doubt that they'll be there

but they also can't get stone back Carlson too Kirishmead isn't exactly they're gonna Carter Hart's yeah where's Carter Hart and all of this guys

come March April oh I don't know top goalie Logan Thompson's your starting goalie Kemper's your backup and Bittington's coming yeah I think Biddington is involved for sure we'll get a good look at him tonight do for the Henderson Silver Knights

do you think hockey Canada would bring Carter Hart after all this? Tough to see. No, I don't think that's happening. No, no, it's not enough time. Not enough time. All right, we know that we did the leaf hour edition of our show, but one of eight games tonight, right?

St. Louis and Toronto. Is this like a kind of fork in the road game? Probably more so for, I want to say St. Louis than even Toronto, because we heard from Brad Tree Living today, there are nothing earth shattering is coming. But I get the sense that Doug Armstrong isn't going to be as patient with his club as maybe he was even last year on maybe selling a few pieces.

You know what's really strange about the blues is like Jim Montgomery, I think, is one of the better coaches in the league. Truly believe in what... I really liked what he did last year. Yeah, truly believe in what he does. and Dylan Holloway, Robert Thomas, Jimmy, Snuggrood, pretty darn good. Shen, Dvorisky, Kairu. There's a lot to like there, Bouchonavish, Souter, Joseph.

I'm just saying, you can go through this team and be like, Broberg, Perako, Fowler, Falk. That's a pretty good club. Not sure what's happening that's made them so dreadful. Maybe of the two teams, Toronto and St. Louis, maybe they're the team that needs to just pump the brakes for a second and let things iron out. Maybe they could do a coaching trade. Take Barubi back. Doesn't that happen in some sport?

No, you can... No, it was the fast anyone. Oilers and Lee should do a coach trade. Knoblock for Brubes trade up. Maybe you have to throw in a third. Buddy, it would ruin our show. Our show would be something if we had to do coach's clips from knoblock. It's true.

Great, thoughtful man. Not a dynamic speaker. Granted, we're getting through on Chief, and he's not exactly electric either. They should be able to trade anything. A bus. I think in the NFL, you can trade for a coach. Well, it happened. The, uh, back in the day,

I don't know how long ago this was now, but the Clippers traded for Doc Rivers. They traded a first round pick for Doc Rivers. Like, you can trade for a coach, I think. I bet you can't in the NHL. No, I don't think so. Would they, 2028 first for John Cooper? Oh, God.

Let's go. But if they don't get some saves, you know, you can get it for free maybe a year. Vancouver gave up a touchdown of the two-point conversion last night. Yeah. That wasn't awesome. And they scored five goals on like 15 shots. Yeah, that's not ideal.

Howder, a new buddy, David Camp. Old buddy? No, it was still new, new Vancouver buddy. Oh, I don't think he was very good. Minus three in, what, 16 minutes? Yeah, yeah, not very good. Hey, there's a lot to be desired. Give him a break.

You just got there, his head's spinning. We know the one thing he can do is play well defensively, so that is unusual. But the Canucks boy. They're a little pressed too, right? Yeah, there was a great. tweet and I don't have it in front of me but uh right now that's where the nchel sucks in terms of this team's dying for find a centerman a quality centerman and it's just too hard that the best you can do is camp and we we talk about uh the kid from boston went on waivers yesterday beacher

yeah right six three can skate teams are so desperate uh calgary claimed him i'm shocked they couldn't trade that guy it sounds like every team wanted to claim the beach or sweepstakes just hot you're just grasping right but my my Canucks thing here right now they're 9 10 and 2 uh and last year they missed playoffs last year they were 17 10 and 2 at one point and lost or sorry and miss playoffs so like it's it's getting late early for the Canucks here curious to see how aggressive they get it's clear that this just this is not a team much like Toronto that their fan base want to hear rebuild or yeah they're more than this hughes went into this year saying let's see if it's a fun year i want it to be a fun year is you having fun let's have a great time let's see how it goes and things are good we'll see things are not fun what i gathered from canucks fans and maybe i'm wrong but i think they'd love a rebuild i think so too they're saying give us credit as intelligent fans we know this isn't it as opposed to grinding for the eighth playoff spot to get a couple

home dates like that's the thing in calgary that's happening right now too it's like we're really going to walk guys to free agency stick with guys as they age and get worse when we could get something for him john beecher's not the flame solution got to stare somewhere beacher doesn't hurt the beecher boys i don't think we get to use that name eight games on tap find yours and then join us again tomorrow as we do it all over again on the real kipper and Boren Show. Wherever you're watching, listening, we appreciate the support.

If you get a chance, give us a rating and review. Our thanks to Steve Valliquette. And do we have anybody in the first hour? Jeremy. Thank you. Yep. See, my head was on a DVP now.

Sorry. No, you made a great comeback, buddy. You're good. We appreciate the effort. Have a great night, everybody. And we're back tomorrow on the Real Kipper and Born Show. Thank you.