Real Kyper & Bourne - Vally's View: In the Net at 4 Nations

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start the hour with a chat about what to expect in terms of intensity from the inaugural 4 Nations Face-Off. MSG Network's Steve Valiquette (4:52) joins the show to discuss Team Canada naming Jordan Binnington their starter, the pressure on Connor Hellebuyck, Canada's outlook in Game 1 against Sweden on Wednesday and more. Then, he weighs in on the Leafs' rumoured interest in Dylan Cozens and possible centre alternatives that would fit the lineup better. Later, Nick, Justin and Sam review sound from Team Canada head coach Jon Cooper's availability today.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Okay, here we go. Welcome to the fastest hour in hockey on the Real Kipper and Born abbreviated version of our show. We are live on Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. This hour of Real Kipper and Born brought to you by bet 365, Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, Jake Schultz. In a few minutes we'll welcome in Steve Alliquette for our Tuesday edition of his tremendous work on our show. Yeah. Pack a lot into that including news of starting goalies trickling in. Starting goalies, lines, you got Sweden's lines are out, we got some stuff to talk about, it's happening boys. So it's really exciting. I really can't wait. A lot of pictures on

the internet of team pictures and colors and yeah, you're starting to kind of feel the alright, let's drop the puck and let's see what this thing's gonna look like. Yeah, it's it's crazy Like you know how much of a influence can a coach even have? You know, it starts right away. It's a game seven right away. Like Cooper said in one of his quotes We played yesterday you lose game one You're in deep, you know, it's like the stakes are high immediately. So I'm very excited. It's not only that As we've seen in other tournaments, especially most recently the world juniors where it's a it's a feeling out process by chance Canada could lose a game in the world juniors

There's this round robin where you play to lap here or something play You got a freebie the next game to kind of warm up a little bit too if you happen to blow one early but this is like blow one early for Team Canada and you go oh and two Saturday night because you're facing the US like you're playing a meaningless third game you're caught what a nightmare that at 1 o'clock by the way on Monday on Family Day Monday on Family Day Monday a meaningless game at 1 p.m Well, here's hoping it has meaning can't let that happen. No won't happen can't have Sammy will call a summit for sure. Oh, yeah I yeah

How do you think this is gonna look? like what is what cuz that's the most fascinating thing for me cuz it's just We have to sharpen our best on best knives again. We have to sort of feel getting back into this because it's been so long since we've had it. Do you think there is a chance and I'm playing devil's advocate here because I don't necessarily believe this but there's all star game energy because I've heard that take from multiple people. Dan DeVos and I were just yelling at each other.

Yeah, we all yelled about it but like he's not the only one that take from multiple people. Dantivirus and I were just yelling at each other. Yeah, we all yelled about it, but he's not the only one that said that to me. Yeah, so I don't. Kipper's concerned about it. He's mentioned it before. I think there's too much pressure on these guys to perform early, to have this feeling out process. I do, I think, and listen, I kind of joked around with you yesterday on our Leaf Hour

that you're telling me that if Marner looks bad on this, that you're trading him. Wow, I would have traded him already before that. Don't think that Marner doesn't feel it. Don't think it's like, oh my God, I'm playing with McDavid now and Sam Reinhardt, who's been one of the top goal scorers the last few years. Like this guy's going to be ready to shoot out of a cannon. Yeah. But I also think the Olympics is the backdrop to this is very relevant.

Like it's one year from now, the Olympics. So it's like, if you want to be on that team, can like Drew Doughty did a lot for his stock by rushing to be a part of this, as someone who wants to. And Alex Petrangelo, who is playing in the NHL, but chose not to come to this, that hurts his stock. Make no mistake about it. So there are stakes a lot.

Some of these guys are absolute locks, of course, but not all of them. And so there is motivation for the guys beyond the main guys to work hard. And for the main guys, they're competitive freaks. Nathan McKinnon is a psychopath. That's what we love about him. So I expect, once you drop the puck on that game, it's intense, man. Gotta say too, trophy's excellent.

It's a great trophy, which means a lot. Know that you could drink out of it. That, to me, is the most important thing That's cool. They'll have one day on the Friday and they're like flying home. I'm sure that Before coming over you're really just fired it up. All right, let's get to our first guest here Steve Valicat analyst for the New York Rangers on MSG CEO of clear sight analytics. He's gonna let us know exactly Like you got your jacket on are you

gonna walk to Montreal for puck drop by tomorrow night? I'm still cold I was just cross-country skiing it's freezing here. I love your luck. It's a good luck it's a good luck. I got my Canada goose jacket for good luck but I wasn't gonna wear that out. Well we right out of the gate we We got it. We got to get your thoughts on Team Canada. Of course, that's our focus here on our show and Jordan Bennington being named and it's not a pretty record that he's got this year in St. Louis. But do you think all along this was their guide to at least get out of the gate?

You know, it's a it's a good one, Kipper. The funny thing is right now, nobody's playing that well that's playing in this tournament. And I mean any goalie. One thing that I'd like to talk to you guys about, we haven't discussed this in the past. It's adjusted safe percentage. Now adjusted safe percentage is different than expected goals.

It works better over small sample sizes like one month that we've had month and a half now basically since January 1st. And what you do with the expected goals is you're looking at basically against averages during the league of how many goals a goalie allows versus how many he should have. And with a big sample size, you can get bigger numbers that make sense. Smaller sample size, adjusted save percentage to me makes more sense. And the way you get to a number is by looking at all of the shots on goal and then removing the noise. So the noise to me is a dump from the neutral zone that has no chance of going in a for checking shot like

Carolina takes a lot of those where they get over the blue line and they just shoot on the goalie's blocker to just retrieve it in the corner. Pucks that are rolling off of a shooter stick sometimes just miss fires and it rolls to the goalie. Ones the NHL doesn't really notice, didn't make the net, but they count it as if it hit the net, it hits a shin pad or a skate. And when you take all of these shots, and then you take them out of the data, you're looking at really just

scoring opportunities. And since January 1, not one of the goalies that's going to compete at the Four Nations is in the top 10. So you can go to any guy. I've got everybody right here. Bennington is 28th in the NHL since January 1st. So he's not playing his best. But one thing I'll say about Bennington, he has been over the last five years, one of the best rush safe percentage goalies in the league. He's always been good off the rush. He likes to play in big games. I think that he enjoys a game that's tighter. And when we have Jordan Bennington

in a net where it matters, I think you're going to be okay. And the same goes for Aiden Hill. Aiden Hill is very good in tight games. He was great in the playoffs last year. He was great winning two years ago. He's really good in traffic. He's great as far as looking over net front. So depending on the way I was looking at it, depending on whether you have a goalie that's really strong off the rush, Bennington, or a goalie that's really strong in traffic, depending on the opponent, you might want to go with Hill. I think the bad side of the conversation is that everybody not named to Team Canada is in the top 10.

Logan Thompson, number two. Kemper, number one. We had one other one wherever my list is, but anyhow, we have everybody that's ranking in the top 10 that shouldn't really, you know, should maybe possibly be on the roster that isn't. But all things considered equal, every team has kind of got a goalie coming in

that isn't running hot right now. Is the other one Blackwood Valley? The other Canadian? It is Blackwood. Yes, it is. So what are the challenges for a goaltender playing behind unfamiliar D? He would not have had any experience behind any of these guys but Pareko, let alone whatever team system they may be running.

What would be the complicating factors for a goalie there? Well, I think the first thing that you have to get through is what communication are you going to use when you play the puck, right? And typically we have four that we use. One would be play it. And I would say to a defenseman and to a goalie if I'm just starting to coach them, use play it because it lets the goalie know that you've got people on him, on yourself,

and you can't really get open for a pass. So just make a decision. And usually that strong side on the glass. Reverse it is always backhand side to the corner. Now that that happens on both sides. If you receive a dump on your left side, your backhand side is still to the left corner. And if it comes in on the left side, your backhand side still to left corner. So reverse it works both ways. If you're calling the goalie by name, it's a direct pass and

then leave it is just leave it and wheel the net. So play it, leave it, reverse or call me by name. Once you get through that, the next thing is really you're talking about how do you want to approach net front? Do you want me fronting pucks if they're coming in as drifters, sifters? I would say yes. Box out if it's a hard low shot. Outside of that, you're talking about odd man rushes. One area for Aiden Hill, the reason why his save percentage has dropped here in the last month, is Vegas has been very indecisive on how they're playing their odd man rushes. Certain things that you can look for as a goalie, which are universal, is if your player, especially in a tournament like this with a lot of skill,

if your defenseman is jumping in the circle, be ready for a pass. If he's playing passive in the middle, be ready for a shot. So, you know, hockey's hockey, but there will be certainly some terms discussed on odd bands, playing the puck and boxing out. So when we look at the USA, and we probably would think from a skater's perspective, we'll give the advantage to Canada. But in that, it's much different now. So what does the data say about Connor Hellebug being with the USA team compared to the three goalies that Canada has from a data perspective and then also just from a psyche

perspective, even maybe even more dangerous? Well, you know, I heard your conversation about Marner and you know, I get it, right? Because if you can't prove that you can win with the best, like what are we doing here? And I think this applies to Hellebuck. I think there's a lot of pressure on him. And the one thing I think about sports often guys is that that's the toughest thing in sports

is playing up to expectations. And I think we just experienced it on Sunday in the Super Bowl. You know, and did you ever see a team land flatter on their face than Kansas City? No. Right, they didn't make a play. But was it the weight of expectations? We've never seen a team win three years in a row. You know, and I think that got into their psyche a little bit,

and they just didn't know how to react to it. Hellebuck has saved percentage. The last two playoffs is adjusted again back to the adjusted numbers 854, which was last last year and then two years ago, 872 adjusted. So again, rate at the bottom and this year so far. He's been very good. Certainly a Vezda candidate and for some stretch, maybe even Hart, but I think it's more team play. He plays in the easiest environment in the NHL. Really? He has the fewest chances faced that are

time and space. So when I'm watching Igor Shosturkin and he's running all over the ice and there's wide open guys in the back door, Hellebuck just doesn't have to deal with that at the same rate or even close he has the easiest environment in the league. Now Hellebuck since January 1 adjusted save percentage he's 25th in the NHL not playing well. Now it's you know part of me of course I'm going to say well does it really matter if you have to be

playing at your best to be your best no Because for these guys at their level they are pros and they know that one save one save can set them off So one thing I would advise my team to do you're playing against hellebuck and you think he's a little dicey Just keep it away from his glove Don't give him a reason to turn on, you know, and I find that a lot of swings in games just from watching hockey every night. If I'm seeing a guy that's not really feeling it, one big glove safe can turn it and imagine if that glove

saves in Boston and the crowd is US bound glory and you could just turn things. So I think that Hellebock there's gonna be a lot to be learned about him and if it doesn't go well for him in this tournament it could hurt Winnipeg when he comes back. I think if I was a coach I would be adamant, insist that your first shot of the game not be wasted from distance you just can't warm goalies up and get him feeling good Valley. Low block or keep it in play. Yeah, I like that

So Canada is gonna open up against Sweden Sweden strength is pretty darn clear when you look at their roster. They've got Rasmus Anderson, Matias at home Dahlene Forsling headman Carlson, so really good D and then Gustafson and all mark and net can Sweden's D be enough to shut down this high-flying Canadian offense? Well, look, I love Gustafsson, have for a long time. I think he's a gamer and I think that he can be a difference-maker in the tournament. He also is not running hot right now, 23rd in adjusted save percentage, but he can get hot. He's capable of it. I think he's a really good goalie. And, you know, for all the goalies to be outside,

for all the very good goalies to be outside of the top 10 coming into the tournament, I do wonder how much they're thinking about preparation for the tournament and looking past their own games for the last month. You know, like it's a bit of a thing, you know? And I wonder if that's just the case for him as well I'll mark

You look at his safe percentage in the last four playoffs guys 800 860 896 886 You know I just don't know if you can trust him and coming off of his injury and everything like that. It's Almost like that buddy that you Depend on to show up for dinner and he doesn't, you end up eating alone. Valley, it might've been maybe a month ago,

we had already had conversations about Matthew's not going. Right? And then we watched this Quinn Hughes thing play out, Willy Wonny, he makes the decision not to mess with it. And then the last guy I would think that we'd see not playing, hurt, and then just getting two quick games in and then playing in this thing is a goalie. I mean, it's mind boggling that he could be off that long,

squeeze a couple of quick ones in, and then declare himself totally fit to play in this thing I I mean you tell me what kind of challenges all mark will have being off that long Getting a couple of quick games in and then potentially being this guy that has to stop Canada in the US Look my own personal opinion I just remember stories come out of Buffalo with him that were just wild. And then heard stories coming out of Boston that were just wild. And I remember being on with you guys in October and just saying, Ottawa better have a strong

room for this guy because it took the Bruins three months to really get him under control. And you know what? For that position as a goalie to be flaky, it doesn't sit well. You know, it doesn't sit well when you're not healthy or when you're not consistent. And if Almark happens to get hurt and comes back for an Ottawa team that deserves to be in the postseason, they deserve it. They have a solid team, very solid team. We were talking in October that possibly Ottawa would overtake Boston Looks like Ottawa is taking a spot. Maybe the Rangers could have right now, but regardless

you can't justify a kipper if The risk isn't worth the reward and I don't know how you do that to Ottawa If you're him if you're going into a tournament where you're yeah, maybe maybe not ready to do I'm with you like if if there's a chance here that he Re-aggravates or re-injures and cannot start The season in a week and a half or two weeks. I don't think he'll ever recover off of that in Ottawa It's like told you he's gonna drive Travis green nuts and I probably already has you know Hope that Miralina is good. You like me your line. See good

Not not that good Fair enough. So good. He's a leaf here, but I don't know about Yeah, hey Valley. Do you believe the whole like there's horses for courses thing like, you know, goaltenders would be better in certain environment situations like this type of tournament. I'm trying to think of like, I'm basically leaning on the Canadian factor that you think that Bennington as a rush goalie, this may actually suit him a little bit more. You do think that there are types of play that suit certain goalies more. Yeah. Like when I look at, when I look at the U S team,

I think they're going to play more off the rush. I think they will play off the rush more than I think that Finland will. And I think that Finland is going to play low and they're going to make use of their points and there's going to be net front. And I wonder if they are game planning a little different for the opponent. And yes, I do think there are horses for courses because you know part of the information that I look at that I have to lean on is net front odd man rushes dots down offense east to west offense in zone and I like to look at

what goalies are doing that best what teams defend against that best and how is that gonna help a team understand what their needs are so they can win consistently? And so for Soros is he going to be okay in an environment where he gets 50 shots a day a game? Yes, yes, yeah, that's Soros, you know, and he's one of my favorite goalies in the league and I think that he's the guy that is capable of, you know, crushing your dreams because he can get hot in a game. So whoever is capable of getting these are talented goalies. These are high level, talented goalies that can steal.

And if somebody gets hot early because the wrong array of shots is maybe taken a few to the glove and somebody just feels it and the crowds behind them. It's going to be exciting, guys. But to say that there's predictive in this and to say that you can say for certain something's going to happen. The only thing you can lean on is how have these players performed under pressure with expectations before and what challenges do they have that are a little extra and I'm thinking about Almark, I'm thinking about Halibach. You know they just haven't had it when they've needed it. And now there starts to become a narrative about those guys. Great goalies, Vezna Trophy caliber goalies, but now I wonder how you carry that back into

your... I'm telling you, if Hellebock gets smoked, how is he going to carry that back to Winnipeg with him? You're watching and listening to Steve Valiquette. And if you just happen to be listening, he's wearing a very loud yellow jacket. I think it's very nice. And hopefully warmed up because you're cooking on this segment so far for us. Okay, we've had various conversations about players that may be on the block for trade here. I got

to pick your brain on Dylan Cousins, of course course seems to be at the top of the list. We've heard the rumors to Vancouver Calgary, Toronto I had brought it up as a possible destination to Maybe come in and challenge a John Tavares here in Toronto and then others will tell me No, he's a point-of-game guy me, no, he's a point of game guy, he doesn't need to be replaced. And just where the data and the analytics tell us the difference between a potential guy that can legitimately hold the top six spot, or a guy that is maybe a bottom six guy in terms of, you know, we hear Scott lot lot and his name. We hear Yannick Gord's name and in your in your opinion, where where is that cut line between spending a little bit more on maybe something that you think you're going to get that's

better or more productive when it may or may not be the case. Yeah, look, you know, kipper one playoff win in eight years, right? And when I start there, I start there with this tone. Do you have a number one D? Have you had two centers? And have you had a starting goalie? And you guys cover this team is close. Okay, we're talking Toronto. We're talking Toronto. Okay. All right. So if you're talking what does Toronto need right now? Well, they don't need a starting goalie. Top two goalies right now and adjusted save percentage in the league. And the top two most consistent

goalies in the league are the guys in your net. So you're all set in net. So move up to the center conversation. And look, I'm looking at this today and I think this is interesting because when you look at total contribution, I'm looking at scoring chances from centerman in the NHL. So primary scoring chances, primary passes that lead to scoring opportunities and secondary passes and you're looking at a total contribution offensively. So we're just going to speak offense for right now. We're not even talking about what these guys are on the ice for against but offensively John Tavares. He is 43rd in the NHL not in the top 10.

He's almost he's turning 35. I believe this year and he is sandwiched between names like Jamie Ben, Dillon Strowm, Oliver Bjorkstrand, other players in the league, not all centers, but other players in the league with offensive output. So not huge names, but that's where he is offensively right now. Now if I'm looking at the last three Stanley Cup winners and I'm looking at what they're on for.

So how much offense are you on for at five on five and how much offense are you on for against at five on five? So it's really a scoring chance plus minus for lack of a better term. And three years ago when Colorado wins, their top two centers are a plus 32 Last year when Florida wins they really used three but their top two guys are plus 21 But with all three bar cob Bennett Lundell, they're a plus 35 two years ago with Vegas Eichels a plus 16 plus 26 between their top two centers. When you go to Toronto right now, Matthews is a plus nine,

Tavares is a plus two, for a plus 11. They're not in the same neighborhood as where the Stanley Cup champion centermen have been. As duos or as in Florida's case, they kind of worked three a little bit more. But I also was looking at just your regular plus minus the one that we look at every day in the back of the hockey card.

Barkov last year plus 33 Lindell plus 19 Bennett plus 17 right now Tavares plus five Matthews plus one. I think they need some help there. So looking at help, well, what do you need? I think you need primary assists and playmaking ability from the center position. I don't know if you guys have talked much about Sean Monahan yet.

He's injured right now, but he's somebody that fits, at least analytically. Dylan Cousins is not at the level of John Tavares, but Kadri is over him. And so is Braden Shen. So Shen, Kadri, Monahan would be for me. Yes is as you're kind of making John a 2B, not a 2A, but John could be a 2A with a 2B, somebody to share the load a

little bit. And that's the way I see things shaking out right now in primary assist at five on five Tavares is sixth on the on the team. It's Marner, Nylander, Domi, Nyes, Riley Morgan and then John Tavares and I think maybe just having a little more girth through the middle would help and I think that you're looking at playmaking ability certainly scoring and game breaking ability because I watched the series closely last year and every year before that and it's the same story it's been bad goals against

untimely bad goals against and it's been not enough scoring. All right, buddy. You want to follow up or anything? No, sir. Nope, thanks for your time, Valley. How's New Yorkers excited about Four Nations or is it we still got a lot of work to do to get the word out? I think everybody's away on vacation, Kevver. Nobody's really talking about it though it's around my workplace.

But I can't say that I've caught like a huge wave of interest from it, You know, nobody's nobody's really talking about it though. It's around my workplace, but I Can't say that I've caught like a huge wave of interest from it. But yeah, I'm gonna say politely no Well, they said it could all change after one exciting game that could lead up to a nice Canada US Saturday night Valley. Oh always a pleasure pal. All right, you guys have a good one, man. Have a great break, fellas. You too, Valio. Thanks a lot, man. We're not. Steve Alliquette.

He said, I hope you're off. We're not. Yeah. We're an hour a day we're off, I guess. We'll have plenty to discuss as early as Thursday. Yeah, I guess we'll have plenty to discuss tomorrow because it's game day for the Kin. Yeah, but I like the game stuff. I gotta watch a game. I can't just come to work and talk to you guys. It will be fascinating to get the first one under the belt. I think we'll learn a lot. So what'd you make all I had to say there? You put him up to that?

Absolutely. I said like... Find a way to say that tomorrow sucks. Tell us No, he said I listen. He's the he's the data guy I just back up our car our conversation. That's all yeah, I mean he listens to the show Oh, yeah, he follows up and I'm like, what are the Leafs need here? Am I an idiot here that believes and the other thing Shawn Monahan is He's a good player. He's and he he makes a lot of money until 29 2029 he's a playmaker too. Yeah, but you know the other thing too is The data part of it like there's so much. I'm not even a data guy. I'm not an analytics guy, but like I Want to see way more analytics. I want to know. I want to know if

if a guy is a point a game guy, where the majority of the points coming from? Are they coming from home games? away games? Are they coming off? playing a first line, a second line, a third line, a first pair, a second pair, a third line, a first pair, a second pair, a third pair. Are they coming off of offensive zone face-offs? Are you getting any points when you take a defensive zone face-off and have to go down the ice 200 feet?

How many points are you getting off of that? And I absolutely, so that's all this stuff is when people get your people go in here I mean analytics is context. I want to know what does that mean? Give me layers of explanation You know, I'm the same way who are they playing against? What situations are they out there who they on the ice with these are? crucial Questions when you're determining who's what. And plus minus, like it matters. It doesn't matter until it matters. Well, but also, you know, the so you can make numbers say basically anything you want them to you and find some data you like about a guy.

It's doable. You still have the great part about it is I'm the numbers guy and I'm saying it's not everything because for a guy like Tavares Context is important where it's like well It's no good for us to measure him in primary assists on the team that's in that no instance That's not what he's there to do but for Matthews It's not useful to use this year stats alone for what we think he is We don't think he's a plus nine scoring chance guy over the season because we've seen he's not he's had a slow year He's been hurt, he's whatever. So you have to layer in those factors too.

All of it. Yes. All of it to me. It's all relevant. Right, and John's gotten a lot of power play points in his Toronto Maple Leaf career. And to someone I talked to, okay, let's do this, he said, you're allowed to score in the power play too.

It's hard. You need guys who do it, it's valuable. Until it doesn't show up though, let's do this. He said, you're allowed to score in the power play too. It's hard. You need guys who do it. It's valuable. Till it doesn't show up though, in games that matter. Sure. I couldn't agree more. Games that matter. That's a relevant piece to analysis. So yeah, I mean, yeah, I want to see more. More. You mean let's do let's do some dives. More in depth data. People are going to hate our show when it's a two-person analytics show. Wow.

Yeah. No, but I do. I want to know where those points come from. Certain guys can score, but they're not necessarily seeing top-checking units, which is fine. I guess scoring is scoring. It doesn't matter if you the coach wants to put their top line against you or the bottom third but but that to me has been a lot of it tells a story the stars of the Leafs who've been suppressed in the postseason where they haven't had a layer behind them and they're just the whole

game plan is against the two of them essentially so they do need to build layers behind them So it can't just be yeah, you're starting to create a little monster on this side Not overly happy with myself right now what huh because I want to see more data. Oh, yeah That's good. It's good. You're growing you're growing. We're all grow a little bit. Maybe all right. It's game time always growth Presented by bet 365 visit the app for the stars and find out why it's never ordinary a bet 365 must be 19 plus Ontario only please play responsibly Found myself last night. No hockey Really pointless life without hockey I

Just as like I'm gonna go home and watch the hockey game. Whatever game's on, I always, that's my whole night. Every single night I get home, I have dinner with my wife, and like, now it's time to do the part where I watch the hockey game that's on TV. So I watched two full basketball games last night. I watched Warriors Bucks and I watched Heat Celtics in their entirety. Mix in a book. Or you can just shut it off completely. Do what?

Talk about your day with your wife. Right, in my journal. Anyways, in that, tonight, I will be watching the Toronto Raptors because they are playing the Philadelphia 76ers. And they are big underdogs in Philly, the home. I'm sure that arena tonight will just be buzzing. Tons of Eagles here and there.

Just coming off a championship. They just burnt down their city a little bit. They're smashing windows and shooting fireworks at each other seems like a lot of fun This the the Toronto Raptors are big underdogs in that game. They are plus 325 on the money line Plus nine and a half nine and a half point dogs the Philadelphia 70s now the Raptors just signed someone did they not Sam? How much a year a lot 40 40 40 40? How much a year a lot 40 40 40 40 I Use Marner knee lander combined. I'm just a hockey puck So I got this cognitive David's the best hockey player in the world and he feels horrible for asking anything above like

17 yeah, I've been told to stick to hockey a lot today He got lit up on Twitter today because he basically said the Raptors are locking in a 42 win core yeah, they're paying like close to a hundred to $160 million for five really mediocre players next year and everybody on Raptors thinks they're the best. Everyone thinks they're the best. Could we trade Sammy to the Raptors show for futures? Are we going to get Bonner? Do you think Bonner does leaf steaks?

We can see if we can. For the try. It can't be worse. Anyways, that was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app. Coming up and coming star. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He probably thinks Braden Shen's better than Tavares. That was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app, play the songs and find out why it's never ordinary at bet 365 must be 19 plus Ontario only please play responsibly Yeah, I don't know if you know that too kip. We're getting a hard time about Tavara slander. I know you don't care and I know I mean he's been doing it literally since our show started

What is the slander? What is the slander? He's not as good as Braden Shed. Yeah, not better not worse just different. How's that? Well, yeah people are offended at the not better part. What is better? Like who are these, who's judging better or worse? The fans of the Toronto Maple Leafs who listen to our show. Based on what?

A point a game. Quality of play. A point a game. He's got 20 goals and 48 games, Kip. He's not, not many guys do that. Just doesn't matter. Half the league is, should be, we know half the league should be in a B division. Okay? Stop, stop thinking about a point a game over 82 games. 82 games is

82 exhibition games. It's not like the playoffs. It's a different league. It's a different look and it's a different commitment. We should tell the Leafs, the M, the O'Marnor that points don't matter. That would be... It won't matter. 95, 100, 102. What? No way. We know what's going to happen.

You're out in the first round and he's going to go somewhere else. Yeah. It's that simple. Hey, man. Just telling you. Right. Telling you what the people are talking about on the streets. Yeah.

Just taking a beating. In fact, I don't care. That's one of those ones where I saw it and I'm like, I'm muting this one early And you two are the same guys for two years saying bust up the core, oh, yeah, someone's gotta go I'd still do it now and now you're in love with them. That's not me, right? I'm not in love He's a bust. Oh my god, the goalies are gonna take you to the promised land The goalies are literally the only hope I it's the exact same team kipper. They're just playing worse Well, why don't have a worse? So instead of just riding just the goalies

Why wouldn't you just cover yourself and make whatever adjustments you need? Past the goalie. Hey, listen, I watched some of the missing curffew podcast and Scott Upshaw wants to trade Marner for Shenz Tough one for one Tough decisions. Those are gutsy gutsy decisions or or do what they've done the last three years four years play safe I mean Like he's even playing safe with lineup they had nothing in the cupboards cuz they haven't been playing safe. Playing safe is bringing your core four forwards back.

Next year. That's safe. Like doing it this year or doing it next year? They should have done it last year. Like broken it up? Yeah. Totally agree. Totally, totally agree.

But they didn't. So. Good chat. Take heat for that? You guys want to go to break? We should. Go to break. All right.

More when we return to Real Kipper and Born. Yes. Peterson was asked at Four Nations about his season. And I'm sure people in the media fishing for another comment about him and Miller, I'm sure. It's been a big story. And I think the question was, you know, has it's been a frustrating season? So there's a lot of like, I think his agent went on with our boy, Dolly Wall, and was talking about how he had had a tough summer with some knee injuries, and he wasn't able to train the correct way.

And he was addressing that today. And it's hard to know the context of what was said here, but in this article, he said, what has been the most frustrating part of the season? And he said, wow, with the media, of course, he quipped. So, could be a joke's a it's a pointed joke talking about yeah the media and how it's our fault If he could show a sense of humor In the last what how many years like he's pretty serious guy. Yeah, like there's nothing that pretty stoic that

that says Joking around or I just tongue-in-cheek in this thing. He was a part of a drastic shakeup of a team that was wonderful last year. A guy got traded. He's got 34 points in 49 games. You'd think the frustrations would stem beyond the media. Not just a guy. It's just been a frustrating year.

A really good guy. Yeah. Got traded. I mean, not in terms of like guy, but good player, I should say. Like, I don't know, it doesn't seem like he's maybe the best guy, but unbelievable player. And you know, I get rich to kind of blame the media when like your owner, not owner, but your president came out and was like, yeah, they hate each other. Yeah.

They can't stand it. They hate it. They can't look at each other. They can't stand it. Yeah, I don't know. That's a quote for me Yeah, like a little more humility just a touch Yeah, you mentioned thing with all mark to Valley and we didn't reset it after we were done there but just you're so right about that and I hate to say that because you've been mad at each other today, but I Can't believe you just ran off to that tournament. Like after just getting two starts in there, back to back, they're being long term and just goes. I wonder though, I wonder because he is not going to start. And so I wonder if he knew,

like hey, I'll come. I want to be a part of this. I want to be a part of the Olympics. I just don't put me in the net as the number one guy But if you need me, I'll see what I can do sort of thing He went from December 22nd to February 4th was his first start So his back I found his quote healthier you're not he's healthy. I found his quote. It didn't feel like we It didn't feel like we had to rush through the process to get me to be a part of this team. Yeah, it didn't feel like you had to be rushed.

I'm like, how could it not have been to get those last two games in and then go off when you've been off all that time? Yeah. Were you, was the rehab all about getting back in as quickly as you could for the Ottawa Senators or getting back as quickly as you can to be ready for the Four Nations? I don't know, but it's a good point. If it doesn't go well, he's in big trouble in Ottawa. I've been accused of being very cynical, but if I'm a cynical fan of the sports team,

which I am, that's my first thought. You rushed us back to be ready to go play for Sweden. That'd be my first thought. But, I was thinking from like, I think it was the Cubs who won the World Series somewhere in the book it says like it just has to work like do whatever you want as long as it works. And so if he's fine, everyone's going to be fine. Okay, long as it works. Yeah.

And if it doesn't, who buddy? So do you want to hear we have a few quotes from Cooper today. The first one was him getting asked about a starting goalie. He went into some classic John Cooper Stuff on it. So let's let's play the clip number one John Cooper. Can you confirm a starting goaltender for us today? Jordan Bennington So when you have those conversations, how does that go with Jordan when you let him know that he's got the net? What's what's his reaction? Well he didn't say are you sure? Naturally he was he was really excited he's a confident kid and he he wants to be in

that spot and and I think you, this wasn't sitting here saying this decision was made months ago. I mean, there's a lot gone to this decision. But his, this kid's played in some huge moments and some big games. And he's a competitor. And not that the other guys aren't. I mean, these guys, these other guys are ready to go if anything happens, but

You know George's been our guy and and There's the kids got fire in the belly as a competitor. He's uh, we're really confident in It is such an advantage in the sports being psycho confident Like I feel like if you ask Bennington who's the best goalie in the world, all things equal, I still think Bennington's like, two thumbs fell. And Bill Simmons calls it the irrational confidence, guys. That's what he is. What a potent skill that is.

And he's got a little Billy Smith in him too. Like he's psycho. Yes. Yeah. Completely nuts. Didn't he get suspended a couple years ago? I don't know. He's not scared to go punch somebody in the head

Or he's definitely a stick leads the NHL in history Probably in making the other goalie think should I fight this guy? Because it's gotta be at least a dozen guys have gone maybe what Valley was saying in his interview with you guys The stats were one thing but him talking about Them playing in big games and enjoy playing in big games, that to me is such a huge advantage where he brought up some of those hellabuck stats in the biggest games and it's like, does he love the biggest games? It feels like maybe he doesn't. I don't know. I just, I really did. That made me feel from a 10% feeling

good that brought me up to a 20% feeling good about the goal then. Finishing is 31 too. He's not washed up. Just because he won when he was younger doesn't mean it's like over for this guy. It's a good age for a goalie. You can hear Hellebuck's comments after maybe losing a series and you're like, did you realize how big those games were?

Maybe he just doesn't realize it because it's in his mind he's like, I played pretty good, you know, I wasn't that bad. I'm gonna stop you there, you were. Let's make, let's do this, I wanna ask you guys a question out of this clip. Let's play Cooper 2 on making adjustments, please, Derrick. Coaching, or a big part of coaching is preparation and planning, and we've done that. Now the other part is, you know, expect the unexpected.

And so, you know, just, you know, you're putting this puzzle together, it doesn't mean all the pieces are going to fit. And that's, you know, our job is to find what pieces are going to fit and you have to find it in short order. We don't have an exhibition games, we don't have, you know, the first ten games of the regular season, this is it. And the other big thing is not to force things. So don't be afraid to make a change. And we've talked to players about this.

Sometimes you have to go on instincts. And every decision we make, it's not personal. It's decisions made about having a chance to win. And I think the guys really understood that of, hey, we're doing our best just as you guys are. Hopefully the chemistry is there with everybody, but if it's not, we're going to make moves. And the guys are all well aware of that.

I wonder how quickly. Like, is it 40 minutes, 40 minutes. Great question. Great question. And if I was the head coach and I thought about games in a bit of a low, Brad Marchand can move up. Braden Point can move up. Braden Point can move up. Guys can drop. Like that's, that's the margin. Yeah. They have the one thing is different for me is like, I am a patient guy during the regular season. I'm like, they need some games together. Let's let them find some chemistry.

Let's see. Let's wait. Let's whatever. I think you overreact to small samples in a tournament like this. You don't have the time to let it work out. If it looks like it's not working, you got to change it. You're 60 minutes away from hearing John Cooper doing interviews for Saturday night, starting them with listen. Listen. Okay. There's a reason

I Hope for Canadian fans. It'll get a listen as early as Thursday and Friday. So the question I wanted to ask you guys is Who sort of in the bottom half of this lineup if you're looking at it in front of you? That's one I can see it on your computer there Do you think is the biggest riser? For me, I'm not trying to slander Mitch Marner here, but if there was an adjustment to me made, I know points of center, there's tons of centers in this team, but if there's a guy that I could see ending up on the top line, it's Brayden Point, where I think him

being on the third line even is underrated to what he brings to a hockey team I could I could see hagel moving up. Yeah, it was a great and he knows and he knows hagel and Just that to me you're asking me about a bottom six guy moving up. Yeah Hagel would have the best chance for me Yeah, I mean, you know, it's funny cuz you look at guys like Jarvis and Fantastic your angle. Sorry. Yeah Hagel's having a monster here Like those guys can all do it right you wouldn't feel terrible about any of them being involved But yeah in terms of guys producing points it is funny. There is there is kind of a clear top six bottoms

Yes with point in the bottom But Reinhardt McDavid Marner Crosby McKinnon stone pretty Pretty good and apparently yeah So I think we have time for it play the last clip there Derek clip three from him on McKinnon and Sid playing together well first of all you talking about chemistry and Anywhere we've I've been in the last 48 hours those two guys have been together They constantly talking hockey with each other and they're constantly revving each other It's actually quite a treat to listen to these two guys go at it. It's

really funny. But it's almost like there's a little brother and a big brother. And that's not talking about the game of hockey. That's just talking about the way they interact. And I'm a big believer in chemistry and I'm a big believer in the way guys think and how they play and for me it's just natural to put those guys together. Is it going to work? We don't know. But do you want to see two guys that really want it to work? It's those two guys.

And so the big thing is they can both take draws on each side. It's a luxury to have centers on multiple centers and guys can do that on lines. So depending on what dot it's in. But it's, you know, those guys train together in the summer, they do so many things. They know each other. And so, you know, hopefully for us it works out. How does Sid not want to play in Colorado? Yeah it's funny like to refer to McKinnon as like the little brother 29 years old Stanley

Cup champion, heart trophy winner, freak of nature athlete and he still looks at Sid and he's like yeah yeah yeah yeah. Hey buddy. I'm interested in the chemistry of the power play too. Yeah that's interesting. I was actually thinking about this. If you were to put together some sort of structure for them, you don't want to go into it freewheeling. You'd have to have some guidelines like we're going to try to work it from the top or there

would have to be some instruction. But in the end you're just counting on the guys being talented, right? Like take what's given to you. Move it around, take what's there. A series of two-on-ones somewhere on the ice, right? You know, get it to Cale, like Cale do his thing. They can figure it out. Sid McKinnon, Reinhardt, McCarr, and McDavid will figure it out in my opinion. Yeah, I hope.

That is one spectacular power play. Jarvis is saying it's the five best guys in the world that you would want on a Powerful. All right. I warned you all, fastest hour in hockey right there are thanks to Steve Valiquette, analyst for the New York Rangers, Clear Sight Analytics as well. Sammy, what are we watching tonight?

Are we just gonna- Wraps, gotta watch the wraps tonight. Quiet dinner, quiet dinner. How was your day? Oh, how was your day? How was your day? Wasn't that a Seinfeld episode? No idea.

Have a great night, everybody.