Real Kyper & Bourne - Vally's View: Leafs Trade Joseph Woll + How Canes Won the Cup

Episode Date: June 16, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee react to the news of the Maple Leafs trading goaltender Joseph Woll and defenceman Simon Benoit to the Philadelphia Flyers for goaltender Samuel Ersson, defenceman Emil Andrae and a third-round pick in the 2026 NHL Draft, Woll's legacy with the Toronto hockey club, if Andrae can help as an undersized, young defenceman, before hearing from general manager John Chayka on his first trade with the organization. Then, Clear Sight Analytics and former goaltender Steve Valliquette joins the guys to discuss the internal conversations around calling out a player that you can't win with, Frederik Andersen accepting his role during the Stanley Cup Final and winning with Brandon Bussi, Carolina Hurricanes' path to winning the Cup, the scouting report on goaltender Ersson and if the Leafs will keep him. Nick, Justin and Sam wrap up the hour hearing Mitch Marner's end of season availability following Vegas Golden Knights' loss in the Stanley Cup Final.    The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliate.

Live and in color. The Real Kipper and Bourne Show. We're live on SportsSept 590, The Fans, Sportsnet 960 in Calgary, 650 in Vancouver, various platforms, including Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus, and YouTube, where we always love the chats and the thumbs up. Get a chance. Give one to Sammy the other day. Fighting hard for his Toronto Maple Leafs and the resilience of the Leaf fan alive once again

because we're going right into it. The Stanley Cup has barely been handed out. We've got NHL trade with the Leafs. Look at the Jersey. We got the jersey back. Sammy wins. This hour, Real Kippron Bourne brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne.

The very own Sammy McKee, Jake the Snake Shultz, Derek Brandeo, and assistant producer Chris Gallagher. Boys, NHL sleeps for nobody. No. Nobody. I think the NHL's been... I don't even...

I'm not sure you guys should get July and August off now. It's going to be so busy. I noticed you said you guys. You guys. You didn't include yourself in that. Buddy, I'm semi-retired. I turned 60. Come on.

You guys are young and hungry. And I say, first of all, I've never got July and August off. That was you guys. I was here slugging it talking about the Jays for every summer that you guys are off. What a gift last year must be. Yeah, it was great. This year is not going to be as fun.

All right. It's real apparent that Lilifes were itching to do something. Yeah. John Chica was itching to do something. Get the Stanley Cup find a lot of the way and start pulling the trigger on a few things. Yeah. It's, you know, it's tough to do analysis when the trade that happened don't feel like the big moves you expect to happen.

Like this is, they got like a new centerpiece for the table, but they haven't bought a table yet sort of thing. It's like, yeah, the centerpiece is nice. But there's still more to come. Sammy, give the trade. You don't think this, okay. Give the trade. If people are just joining for the first time, didn't hear it yet,

Toronto Maple Leaf's Philadelphia Flyers got together and did this. They traded Joseph Wall and Simone Benoit to the Philadelphia Flyers for Samuel Erson and Emil Andre in a third round pick. Yeah. So the Leafs now have Emil, Andre and Erison and a third round pick, and they don't have Joseph Wall anymore. You don't think trading Joseph Wall is a big deal? Well, I think trading Joseph Wall is a big deal emotionally.

He's been a part of the organization for a long time. I think he had established himself as the number one A. No. No. No. Didn't establish him. Didn't establish a thing. Okay. So that's even further to my point that this is like I have, Erison is a guy that.

that probably doesn't play for the Leafs I got. Benoit's a guy who wasn't a positive value contract. And so I kind of got you traded Joseph Wolfe for a third in Emil Andre. I don't know. That's cool, but it's not like, first shattering. To your point, Sammy, if it was a year ago, it would have been a big deal. The season that he had, $8.99, 8.9%. The inability to keep healthy, the inability to see a starting job there for the taking.

and not be able to kind of shut the door on it at his age with the contract that he just most recently signed at over $12 million. And I'll tell you what, the World Championships did him no favors with John Chica. That's ridiculous. Yeah, I mean, if that's the reason you trade him. I'm not saying that's the reason,

but another opportunity where he didn't seize the moment. I think Kip, this organization knows a lot about Joseph Wall and knows the person, likes the person. But they just don't believe that he's ever going to be available, be, I think he's too risky to be like, this is the guy we're betting on. And so if someone had to go and there was interest in him, you get a third.

And they like Andre. And we're going to get into it more, I know. But like they feel like they got something back here that moves them towards the look they want to get towards, which is someone who can break the puck out and make a pass as opposed to how they've looked with Benoit banging off the glass. I think one of the calling cards of Leaf fans, and this is a true.

this is a fact, one that I am willing to admit, that one thing that outside fan bases say about them is that they constantly overvalue their players, that people will have a couple good moments and they'll be like, oh, that guy is, he's the guy. I'm telling you, like, I think what Leaf fans thought Joseph Wall is versus what people around the league would probably view him as,

are two very different things. Like, I think the blowback to Joseph Wall getting traded from a lot of Leaf fans being surprised by it. Oh, they're not happy. No, people are like, you know, I think people overvalue what Joseph Wall is. And I think the lack of dependability and huge spots is a big reason.

No one will ever question his talent. No. And his ability to, at times, look like a very legitimate number one goalie, but there's just something missing from him with the X factor. Well, part of it, I don't know that he has the, at times, the mental fortitude to like to bear down

and to be like, this is crucial. This summer's crucial to work. This is a game I need to be there for, even though I don't feel perfect. I don't think they believed that he had that. And I had to a point when I first saw the return, you know, I was 100% down on trading Joseph Wall for a lot of the reasons that we've talked about in terms of the lack of dependability and his kind of disappearing acts from time to time and all this different stuff.

But, you know, at first glance, it felt a little bit underwhelming. But I think the return tells you a little bit more about what his actual value was around the league and if that's the best thing then I guess. And what Stolars is is too. If they went around the league and said, hey, Stolars is available and everyone said, we don't want that contract for a guy that injury prone, you get nothing back. I mean, to me it's like Woll and Stolars, you're not sure who's going to be available. So get something for one of them and keep the other.

If you told me today that you just traded Joseph Wall to Philly for a third rounder, I'd be good. It's good. Really? It's not bad. Really? It's not bad. Yes.

Absolutely. That's interesting. Andre played 61 game best. You're getting out of a $12 million contract or a 3 plus AAV for a guy that you don't know can play 35 games again next year. Let alone in playoffs and big moments. I mean, God, that Boston series. So that's value in itself. Okay.

And as far as Aerson? Aerson and the defenseman. Yeah. Throw it on the wall and see if it sticks. Aerson, if I'm not mistaken, needs a new contract. He didn't make much more than 1.5. RFA. If Chica decides not to qualify Aerson and he just walks, no problem.

Yeah, let him go. I kind of think they might. Let it go, right? He's been an 80 goal tender for three straight years or something. I'll ask you both then. I mean, it's really you should not be judging an offseason in terms of moves on June 16. No. But does that not leave you're a little bit vulnerable still at the goal?

goal to like you need to have him as an option. The play of Actimov with the Marley's has probably gone a long way to make them feel a lot better to move Joseph Wall.

Sure, but like is he going to be trying to win next year? I talk to people in Philly though and like they think there's the chance this guy can take a step like they like some parts of his game between Erson, Actiamov,

Hildeby, Stolars. Can you get a couple guys that have good years at the same time? One guy who has a good year at the same time as himself? You know what I mean? Yes. I think they got a bunch of tickets here.

They had depth to play with. Yeah. You would have thought maybe a year, year and a half ago for Joseph Wall, there's times when you said that guy is the goalie of the future for the Toronto Maple Leafs. He is. He's a great goalie. He's got all the skill in the world. He's got the size.

He's got a lot of things going for him. What he just didn't have was dependability. And I, yeah, I give it the, Chika and Matt's credit for not watching them up close for the last few years and still come in and just feel like Joseph Wall ran his course here and it's just time to move on. Do you think they, I see both. Do you think they asked around on him around people around the organization

in terms of how they felt? Like to move him June 16th, like your first move the day after the final, or two days after the finals ends, like they weren't here. you said, they did due diligence. Yeah. There's probably question marks about some of the stuff we've talked about in terms of dependent.

I mean, how could there not be? I'm not sure what, if there was any market at all for him. So once you got a nibble out of Philly and you want to just unload the contract. Is that that point for you? Like unload. Unload. Wow. Unload.

Okay. I don't think, again, I mean, I don't. I don't know what kind of research they did or how much they watched from afar, but he just wasn't a guy that you felt like you could count on. Yeah. I think it did get to that point,

and I'm sure they did talk to all the teams around the league. And I am curious how much of this shapes up to what they're going to do at the draft. Like that third rounder, third rounders are something that can be used in compensation. It can be used as part of an offer sheet where you've got to give up a first second and a third for certain level guys.

you know, it's another asset. So I'm curious what moves they've got planned. But I do think that having more cap space and more picks helps you as you make those moves. I'm just happy. It's a trade. It's not the trade, but it's a trade. And they got to grease this wheel. They got to move it.

It's, you can't sit on just whatever they've adopted. It's definitely a sign that they're stepping in a different direction. Like, I think that wool would be kind of seen as this era's next sort of goalie, right? He was James Reimer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, he's the next version of that. Yeah, like where it's, you're a guy that you draft and developed for him.

Yeah. Joseph, you could have a great career being a rhymer. Totally. Yeah. Right? You can play 15, 17 years playing 35 games. But you're not going to be Bobrovsky or Vasilevsky or one of those cornerstone guys. You can make $2.5, 3 million dollars for a very long time.

I do think that there is a world where he's really good. Yeah. Like I think there's a world and he's going to go there. They just signed Vlodar to a new contract there, right? Did I see that? Did I imagine that that happened? I think that July 1st they're eligible to do that and they will. So, I mean, that's a pretty great goalie tanam.

If they're only going to ask WAL to play 35 games or 30 games behind FlaDar. Yeah, Vlodar makes 3.3 next year, but he'll be eligible for a bigger one after that, which I expect him to get. Yeah, he'll be a backup. It's six, six and a half. But it's crazy that they're just like, wall is our backup. Yeah, he's our B. He's not a 1B.

He's our. Back to the overvaluing point. Yeah. About the defense kind of feels like. Yeah. And as far as the defense is concerned, I mean, I hate everything around 5 foot 9.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But listen, you could strike lightning and he could be the next Lidstrom from Sweden. I don't know. Yeah. He's more likely to be like Grizzlick than he is. I do not like 5 foot 9.

Yeah. And that's fine. I have no argument with that. You know, I do think that it was that Boston team that had Krug and Grizzlick who were small and helpful guys, but it's super uncommon. I recognize that. To me, it's like this guy is a lot more like Sandine and Liligrin who were their smaller puck-moving guys who helped them control play.

He hits more than those guys. He's third on the flyers and hits. Yeah, he's fancy stature to me. Like a little more offensive upside than. Stetcher, but he's 24. Maybe he can take another step and be a second pair guy. Like, he's definitely not as physical as Benoit's going to be, but at least your third pairing left shot defenseman guy can break a puck out.

And you know what? He was sheltered in Philly a bit in terms of quality competition and zone starts all that, but he won his minutes. Okay. And Benoit was no good last year. So, no, he was the opposite of good. I do worry about them trading people off the roster after last year when everybody went wrong.

And Benoit just had. a kid last year. Maybe he was had a head in the clouds. He was awesome the year before. Well, awesome. Also, what a fit. Rick Tockett gets Benoit, who totally makes sense for them. They'll enjoy him.

Do you guys want to hear John Chica's thoughts on the trade? So hold on for a second. Uh-oh. Is this new now? Every trade, you get the general manager to come in and break it down and give you, like, where did? There's going to be, yeah. Is it new?

I don't know. You don't have to, but he did. Yeah. No, I'm not saying I don't like it. I'm just saying, I don't recall. I don't recall Tree Living or... Well, I don't think

Breyer hopped on, did he? Oh yeah, he did. They were doing one anyway. I get if it's a major trade and the demand for it. He was the starter in the playoffs for this team. Oh, God. Really?

At times. Okay. All right, I'm good with it. Let's listen to Traca. Technology these days, they can just be like, yeah, he'll throw his face on camera, give his thoughts.

When you say break down the trade, I think that's strong. Let's play clip one and see if you guys could figure it out. Clip one from Chica. I guess the trade itself, maybe Matt and I have been, you know, working pretty hard now for the last several weeks coming up with what we think is a pretty comprehensive offseason plan. And certainly, you know, this is a move that we feel is a part of that.

But, you know, there's lots of work to be done in the roster. What we like about this opportunity was, you know, allowed us to create some flexibility. We think flexibility and optionality or assets to any great organization. And certainly this allows us to be in a better spot as we think about, you know, the entire off-season plan. Okay. I'll tell you the thing I love and the thing I hate. The thing I love, off-season plan. Oh, that's nice.

A plan. A plan. Don't love the word optionality. Optionality is the thing I hate. I'm out on optionality. You know what's... Not a word people use. You know what's so funny.

later in the presser, Jonah Siegel's like, hey, but what do you mean? But he didn't say it like that, but he's like, what do you mean? And then he, so let's play clip four and he kind of explains what he means. So clip four, please.

Yeah, certainly, you know, Capspace is a real asset. I think roster flexibility, just with how, you know, the profile of Emil, you know, lines up with some of the other players that we're looking to add or part of our roster currently.

And so I just think good organization are always keeping an eye on that, getting draft capital that can either be used in terms of selection, and then that's an asset prospect base starts to get built up or use the pick to acquire other players. You know, those are the only options. And, you know, again, I think as a fan, they're not as tangible, but from my chair, you know, having options and having flexibility, I think is undervalued, candidly. And for us, I think it sets us up very well for future moves. Richard Steele, stop the fight.

Boys, we got to get Ross. We got to get Ross Atkins and John Tike out of lunch. What would they talk about? It would just be a circle of jargon. You can get AI talking to AI. All right, let's exercise our optionality by going to Steve Aliquette, analysts with the New York Rangers, MSG,

ClearSite Analytics. Hey, boys. Nick's fan. There he is. How are you, my friend? Happy days. So you know what, guys, they win this championship, and what do you hear about right off the first comment,

all about the team's character? And of course, I'm talking about the New York Knicks. You know what I thought about, fellas? Us, the three of us? That too. I'd go back to my time when I was with the Rangers. 0506. We were probably the first team to have a cafeteria

where we shared it with the other parent club of the organization at that time is New York Nix. of course. And we have our own facility. We have chefs, all of these things that are now commonplace in the NHL. But at that time, revolutionary. You know what I remember? Stefan Marbury was their captain at the time. We're all waiting in line, Rangers and Nix. And he would walk behind the service line, grab the spoon from the service lady, serve himself while we all waited, and then walk out the back door. But seriously, that was culture back.

then guys. And we had some of their guys sitting with us complaining about it, but not able to do anything because they're either... Wouldn't say boo to him. Right. And you know what else you would do? He'd pull in to our parking lot. We had a gate that lets you Knicks and Rangers

park in a specific player designated area. He wouldn't even get through the gate and he'd leave his truck there and just walk out. So we'd have to park on the other side of the gate and then walk in. Oh, come on. It was just like all this absurdity. And now, You hear how great character and the families these guys come from,

and they go out and do what they did. So I'm proud of what still matters in sport, and this applies to Carolina. High character. Valley, when you say that, like the one thing that I've always kind of felt when I've watched a teammate behave, and I'm not sure to that degree,

but there was some. There was some. We've all had a couple of guys. Sure, sure. But the phrase that hasn't left from generation to generation is, we can't win with that guy. Right. And I still believe, and, you know, I don't have the inner judgment

that a lot of current players have on their teammates, but there are still some where you watch their behavior and you're like, you can't win with that guy. Yeah. You buy that? I absolutely do. leader, right? Well, guys, a lot of times it comes down to the leadership, you know, calling that guy out and making an example of it. And oftentimes in a learning way, you remember when I've been on in the past, I talk about the sheep herder, the sheep, the corpse or the terrorist.

I mean, I'm telling you guys, you could sit in any room and name those guys. The sheep herders, you're lucky to have two or three of them. Jordan Stahl's certainly one of them. And some of the sheep on the team, I mean, you could easily pick apart some of the sheep and those guys can go either way. way up or down. You're talking to one of them. They want to follow, but they don't know which way to follow sometimes. It doesn't make them good or bad, but technically, you know, you hope that your leadership is so strong you can save those guys. The terrorists are the worst because those are the guys that undermine the coach's message

as soon as he leaves the room. You know, I got to show this one with you. Gomer told me this one earlier in the year because he's coaching for the Chicago Steel. He goes, I give a speech to the team. I'm walking out of the room. And he said, I knew there was going to be somebody that was going to say something. So I stuck my head back in the room and I said, and if you're the guy that says, I'm wrong, then you're the loser. Because that's the guy that kills your room and brings your rookies down.

So the terrorists in the room, if you can find those one or two bad seeds and get them out of there for sure. And the last one is a corpse. And I think the corpse is funny because sometimes you need that guy on the team. He is the player that scores. He doesn't care if you win or you lose. but you need his points. And that's a funny one for our sport because you still need to do the most difficult thing,

which is score goals. I guess before we move on to news of the day, we'll just stay on the Stanley Cup final a little bit. Freddie Anderson and Brandon Bussey, Stanley Cup goaltending tandem, surprised? Well, I would say Bussie is, and, you know, Freddie, to be fair, I was a backup goalie.

You know what you have to do when you're a backup guys is swallow your pride and say to yourself, I don't care what I'm going to do to make this a winning experience for all of us, but I want to ring too. And you do feel like you're a part of it, but I can tell you, I didn't get an opportunity to do this, but for anybody that did back up, I'm sure if we were having a beer together, they'd say,

yeah, I want to stand the cup, but, you know, I didn't play. Right. But you're still a part of it, Borney. But I got to say, I got over that. I got over that in 2007. We were up against the Buffalo Cesar. It was the second round. And if you remember, Drury scored that goal against us.

And it was in game five. We would have went up three games to one. So it was game four. We would have went up three games to one. And then we would have went back for game five at home. But Chris Drury scored with seven seconds left. And it was a missed face-off assignment where Yogs got in trouble for this a month earlier in Tampa, where he skated at the D-Man on the point and turned towards the boards instead of the middle.

and the same thing happened and we gave up this goal. But I remember at the moment that puck went into the back of the net, I felt like I just lost my ring. Now this is coming from a guy that's not even playing, but I was that bought in and I think you need your backup to be that bought in. My point here is that I think it would have been really tough,

really, really hard for Freddie Anderson to be the second guy to get the cup. It would be hard to get over that. It would be. When you watch the path that Carolina took and they played hard, no question. They played hard when they needed to play hard. But I can't recall, I want to be careful because I don't want to be disrespectful to Carolina,

but I can't recall an easier path. And when I say that, it's the number of games and the resilience to need to go to places mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually earlier in the playoffs for them. And, you know, the biggest thing is, I don't think it'll ever happen again, is the same lineup you started in game one and round one is pretty much the same lineup that you had to close out the series.

No injuries, everybody healthy with the exception of Freddie Anserson. And, you know, in many ways, his injury helped Carolina. Didn't hurt them. Yeah, there's really two parts to that one. I think the first part, Kipper, I, of course, had my rooting interest with Vegas. That's where my rooting interest was. because of style of play. Carolina had failed four times in the Eastern Conference final,

twice of them, twice against the New York Rangers in the last six years. So I saw them really closely. The one issue I had with them was just style of play as in shooting low danger shots, recovering pucks, and the amount of energy that that requires, I don't see them going to this final if, imagine the Eastern Conference final had a featured a Carolina Florida series that went seven and Florida takes a big bite out of them. Are they a different team against Vegas in the finals? Certainly there.

And so I wonder if their style of play requires them to be able to get through rounds one and two without a loss and then be able to only have three losses and win a Stanley Cup because they didn't go long in their early series against Ottawa and Philadelphia was pretty much a tower. in. I mean, I saw Philadelphia a lot this year. They didn't seem like a playoff team to me when I was covering them in March. They came out of nowhere to make the playoffs late. So I just, I wonder if what we're going to see in the future will reflect anything that I'm used to seeing in the past. What I'm used to seeing is really good NHL teams struggle on the defensive side of the puck, specifically protecting their goalies off the rush against, and then rectifying that and then being really good the next year in winning a Stanley Cup. There's a really good list here that I have of teams doing that where Tampa Bay, when they were one of the league's best teams in 2019 and they got

swept by Columbus, they went from 19th in rush defense to figuring it out the next year and going to first and winning back-to-back Stanley Cups. I have to imagine at that time the players were fed up with trying to do it their way and they decided to defend. Colorado, went from 12th to second in the same stat rush defense when they won in 2022 after being a very rush heavy team in 21 and not worrying about what was going against them. Vegas did the same thing going from 20th in rush defense to winning in 23 at 4th. St. Louis, you could go all the way back to 2019 with St. Louis. In Florida, famously went from a president's trophy winning team with the best rush in the league with a negative rush against,

but then, of course, rectified that in one twice. So again, the Carolina Hurricanes, I mean, they gave up the most breakaways against this regular season. They were 30 second in rush defense. So they completely smash whatever I've been looking at for the last 10 years. That's why I never thought they were going to win because it was going to catch up to them. It never did.

Why didn't it? I don't want to say the opponents weren't enough for them to handle, and it was too easy for them. That's not fair. But let's just say they weren't challenged the way that we've seen the Stanley Cup playoffs over the last few years. And they probably with their style of play needed this level of, you know, help me out here, guys. I don't want to be too hard on because I know I'm just going to get ripped for saying it,

but it was pretty light getting to the final. That's all. I'll use this as a for next year for our show, let no one say that it doesn't matter the regular season, your draw, whatever. Oh, you have to beat the best to be the best. It doesn't matter who you draw. You just got to get in playoffs.

Not true. They earn themselves an easy draw through playoffs. And that was the gift they gave themselves with regular season success. No doubt. That's fair. That's fair. I want to, you know,

we can't stay on the final for too long because I want to make sure we get the trade stuff today. Joseph Wall gets traded to Philly. That's a big one. big news here in Toronto. Erson comes the other way. I actually had people DMing me as soon as this trade come out and say, hey, it's Tuesday. Is Valley going to be on?

Tell us about Erickson. What do you think? So here we are, Valley. What are your thoughts? Okay. Just bring me up to speed with, are they planning on bringing him in? Are they going to waive him? It's not clear. Chika didn't commit to qualifying Erison or not.

So we're not sure. Okay. All right. So the first thing that I would say is that I've been looking hard into this for a while because choosing who you're going to rehabilitate for a goalie that's coming off of a down year, I think a lot of it is age dependent if they are minus 15 expected goals against or worse. So if you're minus 15, that means you allowed 15 more goals than a league average goalie, but you could be a named guy. This year, Bobrovsky was a minus 22.

And that may surprise a lot of people, but he was that bad this year in Florida's net. Now, I'll read to you what I was able to, you know, collaborate with some of the guys in the company on in the last couple of weeks. So we call this the minus 15 threshold. And this is Fitz Sam Erison because he was a minus 15 goalie last year for Philadelphia in expected goals. Young goalies under 27 who fall below expectations can recover quickly, often with one season. For this group, a poor season is often just volatility. it's not declined. So if you're a young guy and you have a minus 15 coming off of strong seasons,

there's a strong correlation to being able to get you back on the rails with the right help. You still have the ability and you're young enough to adapt. The mid-tier veterans ages 27 to 32. Recovery depends heavily on environment. And sometimes this could be something like a goalie's a little deficient on breakaways. And as I just said, you're playing for Carolina. They give up a lot of breakaways. You don't have a great safe percentage, and some of that reflects the fact that you don't play the one-on-ones well.

So goalies in this range can rebound if they move into a structured environment, a predictable team system, especially if they already have a winning pedigree. Somebody that comes to mind right now is Kemper and how he was rehabilitated two years ago after being one of the worst goalies in the league three years ago in Washington, goes to Los Angeles two years ago, great destructure, brings his game all the way back, and he's a Vezna guy again and at least a Vesna finalist. But he's also previously a Stanley Cup winner. He has the pedigree.

He's done it before. He was able to get his game back through a great October, November game confidence. That's just a good example. Older goalies that are 33 are over, once you become an older goalie and you fall behind the 15 line, the minus 15 line, recover becomes much less likely. At this age, a poor season is more of a structural decline. signal than a short-term performance dip. So those are the three ways that I would look at the goalies based on age.

Some of the goalies that have been highlighted this year for teams to look at possible rehabilitation that fit this minus 15 season would be Joey DeCord, age 30, Aden Hill, age 30. Sam Erison is right in that age range. I think he's 27. You see Jordan Bennington elevated risk because, he was a minus 17 this year and he's 33. And Sergei Babrovsky, as I said, was a minus 22.

He's 38 when the season begins. So there's a major decline risk signal for him. I said, I know a few months ago on your show, I thought he was done. I think Florida would be smart to move off of him. And I still think that Florida would be smart to give Binnington a chance if they can't, in fact, get Hellebuck. There's some rumors out there for that. But I think that if you look at it that way, Borny, You can look at your team structure.

Are you a team that can insulate these guys against area? There's areas they're deficient. But Sam Erison has been one of the lowest performing goalies the last three years. I don't think it's going to be unlikely if the Leafs do tend to waive him. And yeah, that could be the likely scenario here. And Joseph Wall, you know, I always thought, you know, I talked to you guys online, offline. I always thought the Leafs would rehabilitate him up a number. enough where they'd get more value.

My only critique of this trade is that maybe a little bit too soon, but I suppose the world championships in his performance there really had the Leafs worried. Let me ask you something as far as Joseph Wall is concerned of Lidar's eligible for a new contract. They really like him. It's coming off a hell of a year. And it sounds like he's going to be paid like a number one goalie. Does that help or hurt Joseph Wall goal? going into Philadelphia with expectations of still thinking he can be this guy?

That's the only reason why I think this one works, Kipper, is because Philadelphia's angle is we all know. We all know how quality of a performer he can be. He can play at a high level, technically, fundamentally. He can be one of the league's best examples to young goalies on how to play the game with structure. when he's at his best. I believe he's a top five technical goalie. But technique doesn't stop the puck.

Not alone anyways. You need great technique. You need to be physically strong. And you have to be mentally strong. And Joseph Wall knows, he knows where he's got to do his work. Can you rehabilitate your game mentally to be strong enough to be able to win a Stanley Cup or be a part of it? Look at what Busty just had to pull off. Do you want to talk about mental toughness?

Here's a guy that went through getting knocked out of the North American Junior Hockey League. went to the NCDC. You guys probably haven't heard of it. It's a low-level tier three junior program. I've heard of ACDC. Exactly. NCDC. And he played for this P.AL Islander program.

It's got a good notoriety in town, but it's a smaller program. And he was able to play so well there, he went to the USHL. And from there, dominated enough in university to be able to play well enough in the Providence Bruin system to find a way to the NHL. And I don't know if unless you have that callous to your game, you're ever going to figure that piece out unless you do a lot of work on yourself. And I hope that Joseph Wall can figure that piece out. But to answer your question,

is it a softer landing with a number one with a true number one there? Yeah, and he can go play 30 games. 30 games. Absolutely. Absolutely. We need you for 30. And you know what? I think we're getting to a stage, guys,

where it's changing right before our eyes. Teams are going to start leaning on their number threes coming out of the. American League more. We're going to see. Rotations. I'm going to start playing 12 games each, eight goalies. Right? Borny, my theory, honestly, you guys could laugh at it.

I'd probably run one guy for five to seven games. And then I would take him out regardless, rehab him with the goalie coach, bring another guy up to allow them to play. It's what we do in baseball. We're flying the pitchers. I love you all season long. You've lost me if you're telling me we need to. be more like baseball players. And then we'll have an opener who plays the first and a guy who comes in

for the second and third. Hey, how about this guys? My son's a pitcher. They do it in U-16 baseball. They fly in a kid from Vermont to go and play at a tournament in Georgia. And after he has his start, he flies home. He doesn't even stay. I'm like, what are we doing? I'm telling you, whether you like it or not, Kipper, this is where we're going. We're going to see three team unit here of goaltending. You know what? Think about the guys that are underused in the minors right now, guys. There's goalies everywhere. We talked last year about

Devin Cooley before he got into Calgary's net. They weren't even giving him a chance in October, November. He goes in there. He's one of the best goalies in the league this year. Lenholm is rolling in his grave. I know. It's over. Believe me, it's over. It's over. It's over. Hey, how about, sorry,

this is unrelated, but like, wasn't it Coley whose slogan was like, nothing matters, we're all going to die anyway or something like that? And Bussie's whole thing is like house money. Like goalies need to like turn off mentally to play that position. It's messed up. Hey, we've always said if you could hang the brain up in the locker room and just go out there and play you're much better off.

But Bussie was really important to this win guys. You know what he did, which was which was really extraordinary. You could say it anyway you can slice and dice and he wasn't protected that much. The chances were leaning towards Vegas most of game four, five, and six. and he had Vezna level high danger safe percentage in those three games. He was only allowing one goal every 6.5 high danger. I've told you guys in the show in the past. A Vezna trophy goalie is one goal every 4.61 high danger.

So he was that good. Like you got to give this guy a lot of credit. He was a great vibe when they needed to close it out. Yeah. All right, Valley. So am I the champion of the grill marks? I guess. I think this is going to be a fascinating end of the season.

We have... This is it, right? What do we, we press? We're running at a time. We got to run out of time. Okay. Can you save it for next week? Next week.

Okay, let's do it. We'll do it. Next week. Next week is, last goal wins. Next week. Valley, great stuff, buddy. All right, fellas. All right.

Steve Aliquette, everybody. Appreciate it. CEO, ClearSight Analytics. An analyst for the New York Rangers. I don't think sportsnet would like it if we just, let's just not do a break today. Let's just... I mean, it is three, four. to just run away with the grill marks.

Well, yeah, I mean, I think you're already winning. Nicola Eilers. It needs to put one more in the internet here and celebrate. All right, what do we got? Game time. Game time is that by Bet365, an official partner of the NHL, must be 19 plus. Atero only please play responsibly.

Let's look at the NHL. What are we got here for future markets? Hmm. We have next year's Stanley Cup championship favorites. I mean, if you're making a bet on this right now, I don't think it's probably the smartest time before free agency. But who do you think the favorite is to win next year? Colorado.

It's Carolina. Carolina's plus 650. Colorado second, Tampa third. Edmonton tied for third. Plus 1,100. Vegas Gold night. They did. They did.

They lost the duck. The Leafs got knocked out the last 10 years. How many times in the first round are always made the top five? Yeah. Toronto now, 40 to 1. Boom. So if you think, if you think, 26, 27's their year.

You got a little value here. John Carlson's going to UFC, hey. Big right D. You can run a power play. For a contending team, absolutely. Yeah, not the least. This is interesting. Truba. They've got some Gavin McKenna point totals for next year on here.

Hold on. But let me get the number in my head before you give me the... Okay. I don't want to be to bias me. What do you think? So what do you got? Yeah. What do you go first?

If he plays 82 games next year, but the Toronto Maple Leafs on Austin, Matthew's line. 61. 61. Gipper? 45. That is the biggest hater pick of all time. 45 points?

45 points. He's pretty darn good. He's playing with awesome Matthews. He's going to pass two hours a time. Listen to me. Listen to me. Okay. Just stop it. 18 year old kid.

We're going to throw him up every night to play against NHL's number one line. And go up against their number one D. Number one D. Okay. What do you like, you want to crush the kids, Sammy? He's minus 400 to get 50 points next year. Minus 400 plus 55 plus minus 160, 60 plus plus 200, 70 plus 200 plus 200. You got him playing 82 games on the number one line in the NHL.

100%. I don't think he plays 80. Anyways, that was game time presented by Pet 365. An official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus on taro only. Please play responsibly. And a reminder, this hour. of Real Kippermborn is brought to you by Bet365. Actually, maybe he will play 82. He doesn't take a lot of contact.

Okay. Mitch and Willie style. Let's take a quick break when we return plenty more on the coaching carousel as one Stanley Cup final coach will not be back. Rod got fired? We should hire him. More on Tortorella when we return to Real Kipper and Born. Welcome back in studio.

Nick Kippreel is Justin Bourne. Sammy McKee. segment today. I'll let the music play it. There we go. Time now for the precision headlines brought to you by the 2026 Accura MDX

Drive like you mean it. Said that like I meant it too. That was really good. Really good. Kipper lessons. Yeah, right. Marner talked today. Yes.

The players, they did their availability. Did their longer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people hard on him because he did not do any post right after the game. And of course, the big play was they're all waiting for the dark day's comment, right? Yes. They were ripping on him on that front.

And he addressed it today. Did he not? He did. Can we play that clip? I'm not sure if now is probably, Mitch, I'm not sure if now is probably the time you want to discuss it. But you said at Media Day about the dark times, is there? something you want to elaborate on that and if not just how much did this room and this group kind of I guess eradicate those dark days you were going through? Yeah. I think I just, you know, when I said that,

I think mental health is a super important thing to me. It really is. You know, I've been really trying to take care of my mental health probably for the last five years or so. And I'm really thankful that I had some unbelievable teammates around me in Toronto that I was able to talk to. express myself. You know, again, like I said, my family, my brother, my mom, dad, my wife, you know, there were some really dark moments there that, you know, the thought of playing hockey was just, you know, really tough, honestly, in a lot of ways. It was just a dark kind of vibe, dark hole in a way.

And I'm very thankful, like I said, that had people around me, teammates that, you know, asked me how I was doing and knew that I was going through something that I could talk to. So, you know, I just think it's really important to always check it on your, you know, your friends, your family, people around your mental health. I think it's a thing that in this day of age now, it gets talked about, but I think still overlooked in a lot of ways. I think a lot of us, you know, are addicted to the social media aspect of things. You've seen a lot of the comments, seeing a lot of things about yourself. I think, you know, tried to check myself out of that in the last two or three years, really. Just try to get off of it, try to get away from it.

I think that's helped in a lot of ways. But, yeah, I don't know. I think you always just got to, you got to be able to talk about it, too. You got to be, you know, people want you around. That's what I always say. People want you in their life. You should never be afraid to talk about your emotions and talk about your fears and what you're going through.

So, yeah, I'm super thankful that I had a lot of people in my life that I could, you know, talk to and share things and, you know, made me better. Pretty lengthy. Yeah, it was actually really refreshing. I felt from, you know, like a very comfortable, natural, honest, seeming answer to me and totally can appreciate that. By far the most sincere I've ever heard him talk to the media. Like the first time it didn't feel canned, the first time it felt like he was actually

being sincere in a response. I really, I get it. Sam, and listen, we've had these conversations not only yesterday, which was kind of, you know, two different perspectives, which we totally respect each other. Of course. And our ability to share where your view is and where mine is. Totally. We've done a lot on Marner.

Yeah, that's for sure. And I'm okay with that. Yeah. But, you know, for a lot of people out there that really took a run when he mentioned dark days and to actually make fun of it or I don't know how people can go there. With what we know about mental health today, I don't understand why people would want to ever question. someone who mentions dark times. I think what people were up in arms about a little bit, Kip, was it came off as a threat. If we win, he felt like another shot was coming Toronto's way.

If he did that answer at Media Day in front of all the eyeballs when everybody's watching, you how much further that would have gone if he had to said that? As opposed to being like, I'll stay after we win. He's not that great at collecting his thoughts and articulating it in a way. and sometimes he gets tripped up. Totally. Totally. And but again, like, to question someone on dark days and even if you think they're full of crap or not,

I don't know, I don't understand how people want to go there, right? I don't. Yeah, listen, I'm with you. I'm with you. No pushback on that. It's fully relatable. You know, like I get the idea. It's important to talk to.

And Marner was a very public whipping boy at times. The guy had a gun to his head in Toronto. Yeah. On a potential carjacking. Yeah. Like, come on. That sucks. That sucks.

For sure. That's horrible. Tortorella. Not showing up. Yeah, I just. I'm not surprised. Yeah, okay. Tortarella, not going back to Vegas.

Surprised? Not surprised? Yeah. I didn't expect him back. Yeah, I guess I am surprised. You know, like they took, he grabbed a team. I think they had 93 points. I should probably look that up.

I keep saying it. Took a 93 point team to the cup final and won two games there. Usually teams go, hey, can't argue with the results. Let's carry on. So I am surprised. They've got that kid, Ryan, in the minors that's been around. I think I might have played. He'll be the next head coach there.

You think? Yeah. That's a lot. And Torrella will go back to ESPN and he'll hang out. I love the media. And there'll be two or three teams that. That will come maybe knocking on his door in March. Yeah.

And he'll do it all over again. But before he goes to ESPN, he'll have to stop on the way in Carolina to grab his suits. Do you think, so you think he'll do the same thing next year? He'll just glom on to some decent playoff team. Oh, yeah. And he, you know, he goes from ripping somebody for asking the stupidest question in hockey history to being Mr. Entertainment on ESPN. It's a great.

It's a great plan. But now, how do we think he was as a coach there? I understand the results, and I just gave him, you know, his props for that. But, like, I don't know. Did it go awesome? I didn't see a lot of coaching X's and O's adjustments. And if he was so awesome, they'd just say, hey, we got to have this guy back. They're not saying that.

I don't think it was ever in the plans. I think it was just to come in out of the bullpen. Yeah, I guess. And they've been grooming this kid for five, seven years now. Yeah, I guess. So that's a different look, right? They've had established head coaches. It's been DeBoer and...

Sammy, are we going to get a head coach from the Toronto Maple Leafs here in the next day or two? According to Chica, it's in its final phase. Yeah. Do you want to play the clip? It's really exciting. It's like the other ones. No, we don't. No, we don't.

Are you sure? Give me some names. It is down to. Woodcroft. Waugh, Woodcroft, Pavelsky, Aikens. Yeah. Cassidy? Just give me wood.

No, it's too late. Get it all the way. It's too late. I can't see Cassidy being in final phase. Really? I can't. My guess is Woodcroft or Dallas-Hakins.

Just do Woodcroft. I'm fine with either of those. That's cool. I'm in. It's a warm body behind the bench. Well, it's guys who had experience coaching in Canada and superstars. Okay.

I have a question for both of you. What does several days? This is anecdotally. Two to three. I thought a week. Several does not mean seven. Not weak? No.

No, it means like three to five. Two to three. Okay. So Thursday? Yeah, I can't see it on a Friday. Okay. Well, the Leafs have forever been doing Friday newsdoms. You don't think that's...

Friday at five, announce it, and then have the press conference Monday. But this is something you should be proud of. Put this in the news cycle. Here is Jay Woodcroft. Here is Dallas Aiken. Here is Joe Pavelski. Patrick Waugh would be... It's not going to be Waugh.

And boys... Can't see it. There's no. He comes in and becomes the biggest star here. Oh, yeah. He overshadows everybody. Can't see it. Our clips would be glorious.

It would be contentful. Can't see it. That was the precision headlines brought to you by the 2026 Accura MDX. Drive like you mean it. Power ranking the coaches for our clips. Who's best for our clips? Wall is number one. Yes.

Followed by. Dallas is a chatty guy too. Dallas. Dallas would give us some good stuff. Yeah. Acan, Cassidy's last. Yeah,

what Croft can't remember? Yeah, he's... We'll get him going. Kind of Keefe? Hey, whoever it is, the real Kippenborn show, we'll get him going. All right.

See you tomorrow. Our thanks, DeValley. Have a great night, everybody.