Real Kyper & Bourne - Vally's View: Quick's Resurgence, Ovi's Wrister & Shot Quality

Episode Date: November 19, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee react to J.T. Miller taking indefinite leave of absence from Vancouver Canucks before bringing on former goaltender and CEO of Clear Sight Analytics Steve Valiquette (3:50). He discusses the revolving door of players on the Canucks, Jonathan Quick's back-to-back shutouts, Jeremy Swayman's struggles, what makes Alexander Ovechkin's wrist shot so effective and if Logan Thompson slots into Canada's 4 Nations Faceoff roster. Then, Dr. Jason Smith (34:08) stops by to take a deep dive into Auston Matthews' injury and the reason behind travelling to Munich, Germany. Finally, Nick, Justin and Sam react to Jim Montgomery getting let go in Boston and discuss what comes next for the Bruins.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right let's take it national on the real kipper and born show we are live on sports at 650 in vancouver and sports at 960 in Calgary. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Wow, we got some big headlines to start this show. Tis a newsy day. Very, very newsy day. But before we do that, we'll remind you this hour

of Real Kipper and Bourne is brought to you by Bet365. In a few minutes, we'll also welcome in Steve Allocat, analyst for the New York Rangers on MSG and CEO of ClearSight Analytics. Plenty to get into. Vancouver can lead us off. Yes, we'll get to the hottest score in the NHL,

Ovechkin down and out. But first and foremost, an announcement from the Vancouver Canucks that JT Miller has taken an indefinite leave for personal reasons. Pretty good player out of their lineup. And we can hope only the best for, for JT Miller first and foremost.

But it's quite quickly comes out of the blue JB. Yeah. And you know, it's tough because, you know, we get this news a couple hours ago and you don't want to speculate. It sounds like, was there something from Post Media? Yes, that they do believe it's not related to substance or alcohol abuse, if I read the statement correctly from Post Media. There's that little bit

of information there's you know the fact that he it's he's been playing through injury we know that um something in preseason something against the flyers so that's holding them up but also last game he was outright benched you know kind of running through all that in my head if it's none of those things it's tough to guess you know people have lives outside of the rink and it's probably we're not going to be able to pin this one down unless it was an fu match with with this coach which i don't think it was we do have a bit of talk it if you want to listen to what he said like this is the scrum we can duck out of it whenever but he was just he addressed it today so we could play some of that if you could derek well it's just uh you know you read the statement so you know it's uh indefinite in the sense we don't know how long.

You know, respect the privacy of Millsy. It's got nothing to do with the – don't speculate, please, guys. It's nothing to do with the benching. So I appreciate not the speculation. And, you know, he's a family member here. We're going to support him. Do you feel that there was some stuff weighing on him during the last little bit here?

Listen, Millsy is his worst critic, the guy who works hard on his sleeve. He's our FU. He's the guy that is an emotional leader. He takes it upon himself to do it every night, and it's hard to do. No, I thought, just like last year, he's a big part of our team. Since I've been here, he's unreal, played great hockey, and I'm lucky to have him. Hank, anything?

Yeah, I mean, I really just, you know, total guess is something family-related that is none of our business, and yeah, just got to sit this one out and wait. And, I mean, wasn't a huge JT Miller fan. Years ago. Years ago. But over the course of the last year and a half, and then that fork in the road with Vancouver Canuck fans,

and do you go Bo Horvat? Do you keep JT Miller? No trade JT Miller. No trade Bo Horvat. He's been a rock star for them. He's been awesome. Right? So we wish him the best of luck moving forward. Okay, let's bring

in Steve Alliquette. It's Tuesday, which means we're just going to get flooded right now with information. Valley, how are you, pal? Thanks for joining us. I'm good, fellas. It's a special time of year. All the goalies have faced at least 300 scoring chances

if you're a number one. So this is where the rubber meets the road. It is. It is. So, like, tough news for Vancouver Canuck fans. They lose one of their most complete players, a five-tool guy does it all for them in JT Miller. But, you know, could they be getting another one in Thatcher Demko back?

We thought so earlier today, but it's Shelovs is going to be starting in that. Okay. Vancouver Canucks against the Rangers tonight. But he's close. He's going on the road trip with the team, I've heard. Yeah, it was close. We were hearing that Demko was most likely going to get the start around this time yesterday. So he's been trying it.

And, you know, I remember talking to you guys about this recently. He's going to play through the pain. And some players can do it. Some cannot. We've all been in the room with guys that can. So if he's one of those guys, he'll be back sooner than later. But right now, Lankanen has really been ridden too hard, in my opinion. And he's taken a step back.

So, Shelob's is in net tonight for Vancouver against the Rangers. Take the over. Is that right? It's one of those nights where, you know, or one of those years for the Canucks where it's like, their record's all right. They're like 9-6-3, I think. And it's just just it feels more dire

like everyone is in in panic mode in vancouver and hey look i i'm joking about the she loves take the over thing it's take the over because of the matchup horny uh the highest event team in the nhl right now is the rangers they they're a fun team to watch they give up a ton and they get a ton and the only reason why they are where they are is because their goaltending has been miraculous. You guys, I don't know if you've heard of it or not, but there has been a resurgence of Jonathan Quick. I mean, the guy, this is something that we ask goaltending for. It will not go away. No.

And I would bet against him because he's 38 years old. And I'm like, how can you play right now? I remember, age 35, I had signed with your garden in Sweden to play for two more years. And I'm about a month away from leaving. You have to leave mid July when you play in Europe. I get out of the shower and my wife says, what do you think you're doing? You're leaving here in a month. Look at your legs. And I looked down at my legs and my groin still hadn't healed from the year before and there was black and blue that wrapped around the back of my knees on both legs and i thought up until that point i was still okay

to go i was done at 35 to see quick right now and doing the game the other night with henrik his insight was really neat because he of course played, played him in the Stanley Cup final. And he said, like, Valley, this is not even the same goalie the way he plays. He's so much deeper on every single sequence at the net. There was three years ago, guys, he had the worst east to west save percentage in the league, and he's the best now. How do you explain that? And most of it, the explanation is positioning yeah it's a change of the way that he's approached the game there was a game last year where really this is where it all came to to roost for me it was in edmonton it was around this time because the rangers take that western coast trip every every time a year every this time every year and he had 27 saves in that game

and 26 of them were in the blue paint. Three years ago, he would have had 26 of 27 in the white paint. You know, he's playing differently. We've talked a lot about how the game has changed, the east to west, etc. But talk about a model of being able to keep yourself in the NHL and relevant. He's got back-to-back shutouts, and both of those games were stolen wins. Guys, the Rangers should have lost. That's how relevant he's got back-to-back shutouts and both of those games were stolen wins guys the rangers should have lost that's how great he's been that's uh that's hall of fame type stuff when you can make those late career adjustments big time name that stands out for me right now looking through some goalie stuff is jeremy swayman you know coach gets fired it's always the coach you know the the goaltender whose save save percentage is in the dumpster when the coach gets fired.

I was just checking Money Puck today. They had him as the fifth worst goalie in the NHL, goals saved above expected. I don't know their stats or the quality of stats, but I'm guessing he's not been great, Valley. What's your thoughts on Swayman so far this season? Yeah, I have to turn the page on my stat list to get to his name. Never a good sign. Not great, no. No. I have to turn the page on my stat list to get to his name. Never a good sign. Okay. Nope. Nope.

So yeah, he is. Yeah. He is in the bottom third of the NHL right now. And he's usually in the top 10. Yeah. So he's in the bottom of the bottom third and in goal saved above expected. He is nowhere near the class of goalie that he typically is.

And you know what, Borny it's, it's funny. We do always say that about a goalie burying typically is. And you know what, Borny? It's funny. We do always say that about a goalie burying a coach. When a coach gets let go, it's the goalie save percentage. The one thing that always strikes me too, it's the shooter's shooting percentage on specific chance types. Really?

Yeah. When the goalie does his thing in combination with the shooters not scoring on breakaways, not scoring on odd man rushes. I did a report once for John Hines after he was let go from New Jersey. And it was because at the time, Jack Hughes was 0 for 13 on breakaways. And a few of the other guys were like 0 for 16 in rebounds. I remember Taylor Hall was like 0 for 12 on east to west plays. So players

in combination with goaltenders and coaches and usually it's execution for both goalies and players. So where's the explanation for the Washington Capitals who, like we laughed at last year. Honestly, I'm as guilty as anyone

saying that they're not going to be very good and it might take a anyone saying that they're not going to be very good. And it might take a while here. And, you know, they're transitioning from the Backstrom, Ovechkin age to where? We're not sure. And then Ovechkin, lo and behold, leads the league in goal scoring until he got hurt last night. And they're one of the highest scoring teams. I think the highest per game average.

So where's that explanation? So there's a little bit of luck here and randomness because broken plays are locked in randomness and they are overshooting at five on five by 13 goals well it just never stays that way i think you guys remember me saying saying that when a player is minus five, he typically starts to score and gets out of it. But when a team is plus five or minus five, those are usually the thresholds where they're either going to set back or break through. In this case, they're overshooting it, so they're going to set back.

But they are, in my opinion, the best group of offensive players in the ozone in the nhl right now so their execution is high but their quality is high it's just that they're overshooting as good as they've been they're overshooting it that's why we're talking about it if they were performing where they should they'd just be really good but we're going to say they're unreal right now and that's what I see as well. But I do see them coming back a little bit, but I'm very impressed with what Spencer Carberry's done.

He understands offensive zone play in modern hockey better than anybody, in my opinion. He really has a great understanding. Now, a lot of coaches, you guys know this, a lot of coaches don't coach offense. Let them have fun. Get into the fun zone. Play. You you guys create i don't want to put too much in your mind now i couldn't disagree with that more i don't agree with that at all i agree with coaching philosophy that includes specific sets high roles systems structure so we have outs and east to west at some point.

And when I look at the O zone right now, I'm looking at it in three ways. What teams are the best east to west? Washington's in the top five. What teams are great with net front, getting shots from the point? Washington's top five. What teams are great at rolling off the wall and getting passes from below the goal line to slot? Washington's in the top five. So that's why they're really good. They're doing those three things really well. the wall and getting passes from below the goal line to slot washington's in the top five so

that's why they're really good they're doing those three things really well if you do those things those three things well and get to broken plays and rebounds you're going to overshoot what you should be shooting second in the league the washington capitals in gold differential at 28 winnipeg leads the league at 31 what a swing from last year so you know talking about the the way they've done it um east west below the goal line uh passes out front these are all pretty contrary to a lot of the coaches we hear go uh you know get it to the net north south you know those sorts of things um so you have sort of identified some offensive structure that is better than just shoot it at the net and hope. Yeah, exactly.

So the most hockey-driven analytics information that we've been able to derive from what we collect is that we're able to say to the coaches, your net front is garbage or your net front is elite. And that would include, Borny, all shots that come from the point. And if there's a screen, and if there's a screen that then leads to a rebound, or a screen that may lead to a broken play, or a screen to deflection, all of these data points, you can call them, but really I just call them pieces of information, hockey.

You lump those together, you categorize them, and then you rate who's doing it the most, all the way down to 30 seconds, and you get top fives and bottom five so you have context that's the biggest thing for coaches because if i'm in washington i'm saying okay valley you're saying we're doing it well all right well who's doing it the worst and you go down the list and it's chicago's at the bottom san jose and anaheim and you get the drift there's always a connection when you see the context between our eyeballs watching the game and what these guys are actually doing every night.

So you got to do the math. If Ovechkin's out three weeks, four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks, you can definitely tell me how many goals he's going to end up with at the end of the year, correct? That's how good you are? No, I do have him at early March. It was mid-March,

April, and now it's early. But that's all, you know, it was hard to watch him leave the game last night, wasn't it? I've never seen, I've really never seen it before. Right? I mean, five goals in two games, you're like, what? And you know what, guys? This always comes back to my memory where when I was playing in Russia, I played for the Red Army. And Ovechkin played for Dynamo Moscow.

Do you know how many goals he had in the KHL the year before he scored 52 in the NHL? No. 13. Really? He had 13 goals in the KHL. He had 13 the year before that, and then he had seven the year before that,

and two, and then he explodes in the NHL. But he was 12. Yeah. Or doesn't it go the other way? Right now he's 45. Yeah, that's more likely. But it always reminds me of one of my teammates. I played this guy, Rykov, where he brought it up to my attention

because I'm in the KHL now, and he said, oh, Vichke, score again. He only scored 13 goals for us last year. What the hell? KHL must be a much better league. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So we're dying about it.

You know, watching Ovi, the one thing, everyone talks about his one-timer. His wrist shot from a stationary position beats goalies an insane amount. I actually think that if you clipped shots off of face-offs just you know the catch release off draws he might have i don't know 75 100 of those in his career what is it about that shot that goalies can't see is it that much harder well you're asking the right guy you got two by me so i'm on the list okay and and i'll never forget having a really good game in washington

coming off of a shutout the night before in philadelphia and i was feeling great about my game it's mid-second period and he comes down the wing and he slings it okay it's not a shot he just slings it goes four feet over the net i'm like god damn like you know he could have killed me with that thing but the next time he comes down, what does he do? He slings it again, but it just knuckles and dives and it goes underneath my arm. And, you know, it's what we've been hearing in hockey for 40, 50 years. It used to be Bobby Hall. He'd go down the wing and he'd give you a chin music so you could smell it going by you.

And the next one's on the ice. And I feel like Ovi knows that, too. And he knows what his weapon is it's his shot but he can scare you with it and if you guys remember the first show that we had together this year i was telling you about the issue i have with the goalies that i'm training the young guys where they're flinching they're kind of shuddering their eyes i think i closed my eyes on the one that went underneath my arm because the previous one had me thinking. And you can't read it because when he slings it, his toe curve, it puts the puck on edge.

And I bet if you were able to go and really frame by frame every time he beats a goalie clean, you'll be surprised. His shot doesn't just fall off a table. It is end over end. Nine know, nine times out of 10, when you see his goals beat a goalie clean from distance, they're just harder to read, you know, and Henrik and I have been talking about that for years. I think he has the most goals on any goalie on Henrik because they played against each other so frequently, you know, and yeah,

it's always fascinating, always will be. And it looks like he's going to do what Sammy doesn't want him to do. We are talking to him. Sammy's like, oh, no, he's hurt. I would never hope for an injury ever. Come on now. Talking to Steve Vallecat, analyst for the New York Rangers on MSG and CEO of ClearSight Analytics.

Speaking of our good boy Sammy over here, grave concern, Valley, over who's going to stop a puck in the Four Nations Tournament for Team Canada or the Olympics coming up. Aiden Hill, Stuart Skinner, Bennington. Now people are talking about Mackenzie Blackwood being the goalie. Well, you forgot about the starter. Cam Talbot? Logan Thompson. Oh, is that so? Hey, Barney, I know you didn't like his start against Toronto,

but it was his worst game of the year. Okay. You just saw him on a bad night. I spent probably, I don't know, two hours too long on this today, but I wanted to come armed and dangerous with some information just to let everybody relax on this conversation. No, just Sammy. We don't, it's just for Sammy. Well, Sammy and his buddies on the zigzags.

All right. So let me start with this because it's actually something I was working on for tonight's game against Vancouver anyway. All right, so high danger chances, and it's really important to understand why they're important to me as a former goalie. All right, so getting the scoring chances right, high, mid, and low, it's very important to evaluate the strength of the chances you're going to get. Now, this is going to help us with the strength of the chances you're going to get now this is going to help us with the logan thompson conversation it's going to help us with the marner matthews

debate you need high danger chances i'm going to tell you why and you have to identify them the right way when you register one or more high danger chance in a game against your opponent and that differential is plus one you have a 6-10 winning percentage which equals 50 wins in an 82 game season which means you're a playoff team you're consistently getting one more than your opponent all season long now that's only a plus one that's not even counting games when you're plus two or three and and that just shows you how thin the margins are. You must get more high dangers than your opponent. One out of every three go in, and the unique thing about goaltending is

everybody in the NHL lets them in one out of every three. The mid-danger chances, that's where you want your goalies, the elite top-tier guys, to stop all of them. Like, I mean, traditionally traditionally a goalie gives up one every eight i'd like to see a goalie give up about one every 12 then you're a top tier guy that's how you make up the difference on the high dangers and i misspoke but what i wanted to say was your goalies have to stop all the low dangers no low danger goals are going in that's the only reason

why the leafs haven't had success in the playoffs It's always been a low danger at the misopportune time. You guys know that. So your goalie stops all the low, he's above league average on the mids, and he's going to be league average on the highs. All right, so Shosturkin going into this game tonight against Vancouver. There's a bit of a mismatch because Vancouver really strong east to west in the O-Zone. They are the best team in the NHL east to west in the O-Zone at five on five. The Rangers are the worst team at end zone defense east to west chances five on five. They give up a lot east to west five on five in D-Zone coverage. Shosturkin is going up against the best offense.

Now, let's keep that in context because there's no bester tonight, no JT Miller. Now, Shusterkin is 18. He's the 18th rated goalie out of 18 goalies that qualify for facing 10 or more of those types of chances this year. So he's last. And he's given up nine goals on that type of situation. So Igor is only stopping. He's faced 25. Excuse me.

No, he's given up nine. So it's 64% chance to make a save for him on that. That's the key stat. And when I'm looking at his limitations that I'm sort of going through here with high danger chances, it goes to show you it doesn't matter who's in your net if the chance is super high danger. And when I'm watching the game with Henrik the other night against Winnipeg, Hank says to me, he goes, you know me, Valley.

I'd love to just say, you know, he could have done this or that. I don't see how he can get that. And I don't see how he can get that one either because they're that egregious. That's why they're going in one every three. It's like time and space, backdoor. You can't even get a body part there. So if you're looking at the game that way

and you're starting to go through limitations and basically just admit to the fact that we need consistent goaltending more than anything and if i was to ask you guys vesna caliber goaltending what do you need besides consistency like if you're going to select your goalie for team canada right now for the four nations or you want to talk about stolars vesna caliber what's the most important attributes to your goalie? Is it the guy with the highest ratio of mid-danger saves? 1 in 15?

1 in 20? Oh, I'm not even talking. I'm sorry. I'm not even going analytics right now. Oh, just calm. Calm. Okay. Yes.

Calm. Calm. Sorry. Quiet. Quiet. Calm. Oh, quiet and calm. Yeah.

Okay. Quiet and calm. You. Okay, quiet and calm. You want them to play a lot of games, so they have to be healthy. You need wins. And if you want to be an elite guy, you need stolen wins. You've got to steal a few along the way. But most importantly, it's all about being consistent. So there's a way you can measure consistency in the NHL. And this is where it

gets interesting because there are four ways after a game you can say a goalie played he either played a great game a quality game an average game or he had a bad game so no matter how you play in front of him if he has a bad game or an average game, you most likely are on the wrong side of the wins and losses. Now, Stolarz, right now, when you look at the strength of his season, wouldn't you say that he's been pretty darn consistent? He's only had two bad games. So he's had 12 starts. He's had four great games, four quality games, two average games, two bad games. He's an 83.3% positive game percentage. That measures consistency. So when you're looking at goalies the year before you select them, you're looking for somebody with consistency, right?

Well, how about Stolarz last season? He had the best positive game percentage in the NHL. 88.9% of the time, he had a quality game. Crazy. Yeah, so it was a great selection by the Leafs to get him. This guy's consistent. For two years, he's been consistent. I have him as a goalie representing the U.S. right now. It's him and Halibut.

And if I'm going to go back, now recall what I just said there, 88.9% first last year for him. Now, a Vezina Trophy winning goalie, Hellebuck, last year was only 81% in his quality starts. 81. He had two stolen wins, but he played a lot of games and he was healthy so those are other boosters and reason why he won vesna the year before all mark wins vesna he was an 89.8 incredibly consistent with a big safety net one of the most inconsistent goalies in the nhl right now bottom five all mark stolen wins he had two when he won the Vesna Trophy. Again, great defensive team in Boston.

When Shusterkin won the Vesna three years ago, 81% he was in positive game percentage, quality games, and he had six stolen wins. That's why that was his massive boost. He had a lot of stolen wins. So the reason why I went down the road there was because we're getting to Logan Thompson. Okay?

Now, Logan's 8-0-1, Borny. And the only bad game he had was against the Leafs. He gave up two squeakers through his five-hole. He's only given up four five-hole goals all year. But you saw two of them. And I heard your comments the next day, and I get it. I'd feel the same way. I'm like, oh, boy, I don't know about that guy.

But you only saw him once. If you see him every night, he's performing at an extremely high level. His positive game percentage, Borny, it's like Vezna level. It's 88.9. So what do you need in your net in Canada? You need consistency, right?

So at least this guy's not a massive swing, high and low. He's very consistent. Last season, mid-80s, very consistent. He's a very consistent goalie. Sorry, what's that for? It's sold. I'm in. That's all I need. Go get him, Logan.

He's big. He's got the best glove hand in the NHL. The last two years, he's got the best glove hand in the NHL. He can move east to west. I'm high on Logan. He's playing well, man. I'd be happy putting him in the net. Made can move east to west i'm high on logan he's playing well man yeah he is putting him in the net made a couple in utah last night too yeah i'm not i'm not worried about him performing at a high level and if it has to be him because binnington for whatever

reason he's going through it right now not playing at a high level um aiden hill also very consistent as far as wins he has eight wins as well. They're both in the top five in the NHL. I think Aiden can help and support, but look, I think that Logan right now is the front runner. We'll see what happens over the next number of weeks. Just one quick question before we go. Again,

high dangers, mid dangers, low danger chances. What do you do? Do you break down areas of the ice and strictly call that low-danger, or is it circumstantial? It's always circumstantial. So the biggest factor that we have, Kipper,

is is there a broken play? Did it move east to west? Is there a screen or not? And it's really important to qualify those because those three things don't allow the goalie to have clear view on the puck for more than half of a second. The barrier in hockey is that the goalie is trying to achieve half a second or more of clear view on the puck while the shooters are not allowing them to do so. And if you do that consistently, you're going to have more high danger chances. You can get high danger chances from the point because a screened deflection is a high danger

chance. And you can get a high danger chance from high skill plays like the east to west, of course. But it's not just the area on the ice. The reason why I started this company 10 years ago was because I wanted to prove that shot quality existed. That a shot from the faceoff dot to my left where the referee drops the puck, it could be five different shots from there. And two could be low danger if the goalie has clear view.

And it could be a pass through the seam to Ovechkin on a one-timer that could be a high danger. All the same locations. There's a screen deflection or if there is a layered screen and that player gets into the could be a high danger, all the same locations. There's a screen deflection, or if there is a layered screen and that player gets into the slot area, high danger. But all of these factors, Kipper, they only revealed themselves after we did one year of collecting every single shot in the NHL with these 34 points of data. Location is one aspect, but the real takeover is taking away the goalie's view

whether it's massive mobility or a broken play off of a shin pad and um i know you guys might be on your way but what about this marner matthews debate what are you trying to stir it up here's the real question. Can you support me in like 15 seconds, 20 seconds? If I gotta run because you guys gotta run, I'll do a quickie, okay? Kipper wins.

We're out of time, everybody. I'll give you a quick. So, Austin, 23, I just went over the last three playoff seasons, right? Recency. So, as a shooter, Austin, far superior. He has 26 high-danger chances, and he scores seven goals in the last three and Austin create high danger-wise. Why? Because the best goalies can't stop at more than one every three times. I don't care who it is, Vasilevsky, Shosturkin. I just told you the Shosturkin story.

Okay, so we're just talking high danger. That's the most important thing. We get that right. As a passer, Austin has only had nine high danger passes. As Kipper oftentimes says, not the best playmaker if you want them in the middle and for five goals so the guys actually scored for him but he's only created nine high danger primary passes in 23 games in his last 23 games so mitchie's played 25 playoff games the last three years and as a shooter it's the contrary as a shooter he's had only seven high danger not getting inside not creating big plays not getting breakaways not getting two on ones high danger chances he's got

three goals as a passer mitchie has 33 high danger passes so he's still getting his guys inside springing guys for breakaways odd mans etc resulting seven goals, but the guys have underperformed on his passes, minus five. They should have had five more. He should have had five more assists. So his totals, Marner's, are 40. If we're looking at total contribution and high dangers,

he's had 40 between passer and shooter to Matthews' 35. So there's an argument to be made there, guys, that Mitchie is more effective than Austin. No further questions, Your Honor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know what else?

He had six hat tricks last year, right? Matthews did, yeah. Yeah. Do you know that they're all against non-playoff teams? They're all DQ'd.'t hey i didn't ask you to trade matthews away hey i actually think you should i'm sorry you always want to fight about something in the next 20 minutes he's playing for bayern munich now he's playing for bayern munich now hey sammy what could you get let's get him back playing striker let's get him back on the

ice germany hey i don't know i wouldn't touch't touch that Matthews if I was wearing a hazmat suit. You guys should get rid of him. All right, Jessica, I'm going to go and cover the game now for the New York Rangers. Thanks, Valley. All right, fellas. Have a great day. Have a good one. All right.

Oh, my God. Steve Allicat as he prepares to cover the New York Rangers and the Vancouver Canucks tonight. All right, let's go to break. MSG. Okay, Sammy, break and then game time or game time now? No, we got to go. Okay, let's go to break and we're right back with more Real Kipper and Bourne.

Everything you need to know about the Raptors and the biggest stories around the NBA. Smith & Jones. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, so much in terms of storylines around the National Hockey League, including key injuries right

now. We have mentioned Austin Matthews in Toronto, Ovechkin as well. I thought it'd be a good time to call an emergency uh into dr dr dr dr dr jason smith so we'll get him on the line momentarily but a reminder that this hour real kipper and born is brought to you by bet 365 uh elliot friedman has a story on sportsnet.ca he uh he breaks it down uh in terms of uh austin matthews going out to germany to see a specialist um and this guy has been around a long time the german specialist the german specialist hans mueller wolfhart healing hans muller wolfhart healing hans right and sammy he's got uh he's got a pretty good long list of mcafree was just with him mcafree and mcafree and i think usain bolt

bono was on his wikipedia i don't know if that that's in the same category with or without you the The opera guy. Talking about his back. Pavarotti. He's done opera. He's like the magician here. So let's welcome in Dr. Dr. Doctor. What's going on? Orthopedic surgeon for the Toronto Blue Jays.

So, Doc, I mean, we've only got a few minutes here, but Elliot Friedman's got a story on sportsnet.ca. He says his source in the article suggests that people shouldn't get stressed out because of the destination, i.e. Germany, because if it was local, just because it isn't local, people shouldn't panic. So my question to you, Doc, is why Germany then? Why not here? Well, first off, you know, the Leafs have an unbelievable medical staff. They'll put their staff up against any staff in the world.

So it's not like they're doing anything radically different that, you know, they have the magic over there that we don't have over here. But what they do have in Germany is less regulation on some of the stuff we're doing around stem cells, protein manipulation, PRP, and these things. So in some situations, you know, if all the latest and everything we have just isn't working perfectly, sometimes you've got to shift course. And that's not to say that, you know, they have the magic bullet over there either. Like if they had something that worked all the time, every single injury would go over there.

But they have some different stuff that they can try, and sometimes you've just got to change course so it being uh you know the course of this injury has been a little bizarre for these fans where uh matthews was hurt he skated a little bit right after they've just been waiting for this to get better um it's all kind of vague right now what are your thoughts on now we're getting to two and three weeks and he's traveling to see a specialist what does that tell you about the nature of his injury well it just means he's getting a little bit frustrated with it now um doesn't necessarily speak that it's something that he's not going to be able to come back from like as we know soft tissue injuries two three weeks isn't a long time

like let's not all get super concerned that this guy's out for the rest of the season it's just you know he's such a valuable player and they want to shave as many weeks off his recovery as they can so it doesn't really alarm me a ton yet and they're just trying different things or throwing different things at it which is welcome to elite sports medicine um in in terms of like can can we assume that you know whatever is ailing him then it is an injection of whatever this doctor wants to put into it and i know is his reputation is a little bit of on the homeopathic side um and but you know again is it just something that like as you who practice here do you sit there and go um i wish i had more regulations to treat these guys am i losing

business to germany now yeah i mean that's the point so with him and we know him well and you know guys that go see him it is the the injectables. It's what he can do to inject that's a little bit different than what we're allowed to do here. Now, it's not grossly different. It's not like this crazy magic thing that, you know, we can't touch over here. But it's some things that are a little bit different in terms of, you know, where you can get your proteins from and then potentially around the stem cell side of how much you can manipulate the stem cells. So it's just a little different.

It's not the magic bullet, like I said, or everyone would be going there. So that would be my guess, is he's going to try one of these different types of injections. It's a little bit different than some of the stuff we're using here, but it's not some crazy magic potion. Doc, I want to get your thoughts on the Alex Ovechkin injury.

Everyone is closely watching his chase of Gretzky's record. He got, you know, his leg extended and someone leaned on it a little bit. He tried to test it, didn't look great. What was your initial thoughts when you saw the Ovechkin injury? Man, yeah, you think, well well back to the beginning of the season this looks very similar to linea but it looks to be a less degree and you know you see mcbain spin off of it when he hits him so a lot of the energy wasn't going through the knee but there's enough to torque on it you see it

bending a little bit the wrong way. You always cringe when you see that. But I'm definitely thinking MCL. When I see that mechanism and I see that slow motion, MCL would be my guess. But also bone bruise on the other side. When you stress one side, you push on the other. So MCL, maybe bone bruise. You know, we'll see. Yeah, I push on the other. So MCL, maybe bone bruise. You know, we'll see.

Yeah, I went to the break. I did make a call. I can update it a little bit that, you know, to the Washington Capitals press release lower leg, which takes away the knee, the ankle. Yeah, really helpful. Thanks, Rob. No, no, no, wait.

I'm not done. It's the lower limb. So the feeling last night was that they may be looking at a hairline fracture. There was too much swelling to take a definitive picture, so they'll wait for the swelling to go down. So I guess whether or not they feel like there's a fracture there or not or to what degree. So I ask you, Doc, what's the difference between, say, a hairline fracture and maybe something more severe? Yeah, a little hairline fracture, that means nothing's out of place.

But that could be pretty longer, you know, four to six weeks often for fractures to heal. Now, it depends if it's a fracture like a bone bruise compression or actually he got smacked and had a little fracture maybe on the fibula, that little bone on the outside or something like that. But the good thing about fractures is as long as they're not displaced, not shifted, fractures heal, and fractures heal 100%. So four to six weeks if it's a fracture, you know, two, three weeks, if it's a grade one to two MCL,

that's what we're looking at there. Hey, Doc, great stuff, man. Thanks for joining us. You okay? Happy birthday to you. Is there a big birthday, by the way? This is number 50, guys. Oh, boy, you came on the show today.

Happy birthday. You came on the show. Doctor, doctor, doctor. Have a great one. Thanks for doing this. Thanks so much, Doc. Appreciate it. Dr. Jason Smith.

Wow, cool. Cool of him to come on. Yeah, really good. That's amazing. Really good. A little hairline fracture. Let me sneak in. They don't know yet.

It's nothing definitive, but that was the feeling last night that they were looking into it. It's not getting a record this year, boys. Let me sneak in game time. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app, play this dog to find out

why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Let's be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Edmonton Oilers back in action tonight in the nation's capital after a putrid performance against the Montreal Canadiens last night. Shut out 3-0 at the Bell Center.

Going to take on the Sens tonight. Even odds on both sides. Minus 1-10 on both sides. I got to tell you, boys, Oilers need this one. Oilers really got to find a way to dig deep here. At the end of a road trip, I know it's a tough one. But, God, you can't lose back-to-back nights. The Sens aren't playing great either it's a there's a there's a little bit of desperation in

this game from both sides i think it could be a good one give me the oil to get back on track tonight in ottawa uh the pittsburgh penguins at home to the tampa bay lightning pittsburgh penguins big underdogs plus 140 to the tampa bay lightning minus 165 and the last one that i'll bring up the vancouver canucks uh home to the new york rangers valley said lots of goals the over six goals is minus 120 so give me on valley's advice minus 120 over six goals in the new york rangers vancouver canucks game tonight i also like any time in our over under you can get a flat number not a.5 so you can at least push. You can push. So there you go

and that was game time presented by Bet365 visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordered in Bet365. It must be 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. I gotta think maybe Demko could have played tonight but at home against the Rangers not a tough spot not a good

not a good spot no miller yeah right no miller like that's not where you want to bring him back yeah that's probably a great point let's try to ease him in he talked about uh you know how dangerous both of these teams are offensively that have been a tough start so demko not far away he's going to be on the road trip with the team i expect him to be playing by this weekend um besser is back skating i think garland is out tonight his wife is uh expecting i believe oh just have the baby tomorrow and let him play just hold they squeeze tight you know you're not helping out the team here you gotta think of the thoughts the you know thoughts of nick kipris does not reflect sam mckee yeah disclaimer should run under the show for sure okay um gee we're getting to a firing yeah oh yeah by the way can i tell you something yeah

so they they lost bad the other night right b, Boston. And then after they said day off and Jim Montgomery would be available Wednesday, that was the kiss of death right there. When I read that, I said he will not make it to Wednesday. Oh, really? You feel like that's like a – Oh, no. That one was that for a day we get to kind of leave us alone. That one

was the smoke screen. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. Well, sounds like Joe Sacco going to take over as the interim head coach. I hate that. He's not going to keep that. No, he's not. First of all, they had a chance to make him the head coach

and they passed on him. Right. So, like, if you didn't like him back then, why would you like him now? I think it's one of my staples of this show is, like, if you had a solution, we could have used it. Yeah. You don't find out. Is he even sitting on the answers?

Guessing no. What would you put the over-under on, like, Joel Quenville? Oh, feels very. Possible? Possible. You think? What would you put the over-under on Joel Quenville? Feels very... Possible? Possible. You think? No. Oh, no.

I don't think so. Okay. Not for this one? Well, the way you just teed it up there. I did that to see your reaction. Yeah, I mean, if they get Joel Quenville, they'll immediately go on an 18-game winning streak and are the best team in the league again.

That's what happens. The only thing I think about with Joel is that that whole Mitchell. Remember the Mitchell? Oh, Mason Mitchell? Was it Mason Mitchell? Was that his name? No. The kid that was like with the awful bullying stuff that now plays in the KHL? So, I don't know.

And then there's the questionable Joel Quenville scenario out of Chicago. Mitchell Miller. Mitchell Miller. Would they go to Joel off of the Mitchell kind of storyline? It's a good point, Kim. They went through a lot with that. And then they're going to have to come and answer questions. Now, can they do what Edmonton did with Bowman and just take the hit for a day and then they're going to have to come and answer questions. Now, can they do what Edmonton did with Bowman

and just take the hit for a day and then move on? Is that what's going to happen? I think it's different with a coach than it is a general manager. A coach is so much more public-facing and so much more forward-facing than a general manager. Like, how often does Bowman even talk or whatever? You're talking on Amazon. I don't think it went awesome.

No, but you're talking on amazon i don't think it went awesome no but you're you're going every day you're going to a new market with like a new opportunity for a new person to go to practice and start asking questions and bringing attention to it like i just i feel like the general managers the easier just kind of quote unquote for lack of a better term hide than it is to have a forward-facing coach that talks to the media every day. Would be my thought on it. Who do you think it could be, Kip? Do you have any? Todd McClellan. Oh, okay.

I really love that you just came up with that. I've got my money on. Yeah. In this season or the start of next? This season. Okay. Buddy, they're 9 and 10. Yeah, they stink.

This season. He is. 8 and 9 or whatever they are. He's a rip-roaring to go. Is that right? That's interesting. Can I read you the record of the last two Boston Bruins head coaches? Yes.

Bruce Cassidy. This is from Jason Gregg, our friend of the show, on Twitter. 245, 108, and 46 for Bruce Cassidy for a 672 points percentage, a 614 winning percentage. And Jim Montgomery was 120, 41 41 and 23 for a 715 point percentage and a 656 win percentage fired oh yeah i mean tough tough crowd my god he had two playoff runs they won one round they beat the least game seven barely counts yeah um and i guess people think that he had they had higher goals than that by the way his first

year they set the record for points in regular season 135 their roster is not good he's pretty good he's okay that forward course is not good and all of this they don't get any saves misery correct me if i'm wrong but today they would make the playoffs uh Is that right? I don't know. I will check. But yeah, that could very well be. They're in fourth place in the division. Yeah, they have enough points. Ottawa has a higher winning percentage. Let's see by wild card.

But my point is, they're not. You are correct. They would be the second wild card spot as of today. Interesting, though. They're hanging on for dear life. They're hanging on for dear life. They're hanging on for dear life. Rome's burning, but they're still in a playoff spot. Yeah.

Yeah, so it's not too late. That's why you make the change now. That's why if you're the Detroit Red Wings, who are 7-9-2 and are miles back. Ooh, Stevie's got a tough call. Is it tough? I mean, I know. What's so tough about it?

Lalonde's a likable guy and all. Do you see their road trip? The tough call is... They just lost to Anaheim, San Jose and LA. The tough call is saying, I was wrong. I was wrong. Oh, well, yeah. I mean, that is a tough call. Actually, I say that every day. Yeah, I remember. Decent at it.

I called on Lee's talk the other night. I called that Reeves was going to get suspended for five games. I must have got a hundred messages from people like, you were right. I'm like, thank God you don't message when I'm wrong. Yeah. Oh, my God. I would have 1,000 messages a day. Yeah.

Holy. Yeah. So they went ahead and made the move, and we'll see if that helps fix Boston because it needs to fix the goaltending to fix their winning. Sweeney's got to be feeling the heat too, boys. It's got to be an organizational heat feel. Yeah, that one would probably come at the end of the year.

Well, obviously that's going to be mid-season, but he's got to be feeling it. Oh, yeah. Oh, no, they do. The Bergeron days are over. All right, seven games on tap tonight. Pick yours, enjoy it, and we're back tomorrow on the Real Kipper and Bourne

Show. If you get a chance, give us a rating and review. We'd love to hear from you. Our thanks to Jason Bukala, Steve Aliquette, and Dr. Jason Smith. Back tomorrow. Have a great night, everybody.