Real Kyper & Bourne - Western Battle in the Balance

Episode Date: May 16, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with a chat about the narrative around Elias Pettersson in Vancouver after his lethargic presser yesterday. Joining the conversation, Oilers analyst Rob Brown (7:00) weighs in on Pettersson's play, the Canucks' scrappy mentality, the Oilers' bold call in playing Pickard and their power-play dominance. Later, former NHLer Adam Graves (26:42) sets the stage for the Rangers/Hurricanes Game 6 - the pressure on the Rangers to close in Carolina, Chris Kreider's growing legacy in New York and Lafrenière's growth.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

the real kipper and born show live and in color on sports net sports net 650 in vancouver and sports net 960 in calgary this hour of real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kipper, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee as we get ready for Battle of Canada once again. Wonderful weekend of sports coming up. You got a PGA

Championship major. You got these excellent Game 6s, potentially Game 7s, NBA playoffs cooking up, Blue Jays are there too. Just a wonderful weekend of sports, boys. Very exciting. And I'm probably going to be outside the whole time,

but it's going to be great. You're golfing it up. Oh, yeah. We got Rob Brown in a few minutes to help us tee up Edmonton and Vancouver. Adam Graves, New York Ranger, great. Will join us as well as we get ready for game six between the Rangers and Carolina.

But in the meantime, a lot of heat on Petey. I know you guys talked about it. Yeah, we had Richie earlier today. Like everyone else, it's just gotten beaten to a pulp. The poor guy that there's been three days between these games. It's just been the...

You know, it's like Mitch would have felt here in Toronto. Endless. It's very similar. The other thing, too, is we listen to him talking to the media, and he's not giving much at all. Not much to inspire you out of his latest presser? Not much. Would you like to hear that clip?

Sure. What do you got for us? All right, let's play it, Derek. From your perspective, why has it been so difficult these last three months to generate the way you maybe did previously? Yeah, good question. Any thoughts, any answers?

No. Okay, that's not helping. That is not helping him. Yeah, it's certainly not making it that was from yesterday it's certainly not improving things i heard one person say that they liked the idea that he almost seemed defiant there like it's a bit of an f you why to who to who to the person asked the question like the idea that that he can't figure it out or he's struggling

I'm going to be fine don't worry about me you can say that but you don't have to come off so standoffish yeah I think he's making a horrible mistake the team just gave you 90 million dollars

you gotta come up with something better than no. Yeah, good question. Good question. That's a great drop. It makes it adversarial, which it doesn't need to be. Someone is just saying, hey, give us your perspective on what's happening here. So I'm with you on that. If he can come in with any type of sincerity saying, I'm as frustrated as you are.

Yeah. Something that just can hold. Then you're fine. And be like, hey, I'm not doing anything different to me. I'm trying to figure out what. We know you don't have the answer for us. Yeah. But just come across like.

What are you going to try next? What's. I'm not the Edmonton Oilers here. I'm just asking the question. I have to say like, as a fan watching, as of watching this stuff, the,

one of the most impressive things to me is that these guys do this so little that like the NHL guys, you know, I think that's a little bit more adversarial in other sports, but in the, in the NHL, they just give like after heartbreaking losses after heated losses after all that they can just go up there like if i went up there after a loss

and people i'd be just like i don't know how they are so professional about it it's always been something i've admired about them like tavaris how do you just keep saying these robot things over and is there nothing in you that makes you want to say one thing one time? Barely any of them ever do it. It blows my mind. That's why it sticks out so much, and especially a guy in his situation. I'm not sure how much effort they put into it or where they prioritize the importance of being in that moment.

Like you know the heat's on you. You know that they're going to come at you, the media at least, you know, why you're scoring. You know you're making $90 million. Like, you got to be prepared enough. He's been around long enough to, he should have better tools

to de-escalate the situation yeah that's all and all he did was just pour gasoline on it you know typically when these guys sign these big contracts some of the struggles are because they want to reward the city and reward the team right for the money they've been given and it's frustrating for them and they can't figure out maybe trying too hard or something but to your point kip, he can just say that if that's the case. He's been bad for like months, though. Yeah, like pretty much since he signed the contract. There's no fight in that dog like others.

No. And Rick Tockett sees it, and he is one of half a dozen that says, if you're scoring or not scoring, I don't care. I'm not seeing enough fight in you like there's more battles run some people over here and there it's just not enough yeah it's just not enough you know there's everyone's got their theories on it part of me today driving in because i've been thinking about it too is like you know sometimes it's not that complicated it's just you're being a little more passive than

usual the puck doesn't bounce your way the other team is obviously defending you a little harder you've been keyed on for a series and you know when i'm in the echl i look like an awesome player but i go up a level and you don't even notice me that was my experience as a player for pd in the regular season he's unbelievable he's a you know a 90 point guy or whatever and it goes up a level in the postseason and he hasn't found that next level yet and I think it's there I am not saying he's not gonna get there but sometimes the game going up above you you know take that one more notch can kind of make you irrelevant if you're an offensive guy maybe it's just the hockey maybe it's not some mental thing where he's you know people are diagnosing this guy he's depressed he wants out of vancouver he's like

hey relax it might just be him figuring out the hockey game and there's plenty there's plenty time there's plenty of time here to to win a series for the vancouver canucks plenty of time there's two two going home. They got a chance here. A couple of matches and decent games. He ends up with two or three points tonight, and all is forgiven. Oh, yeah. I'm just saying, there's enough time.

Yes. There's plenty of time. So how do you, as a coach, jumpstart a guy like him? Well, we can have that conversation after, because we have the oiler side of things. He's about to be represented. Rob Brown. So, you know, Brownie would be a perfect guy because Brownie was paid to produce.

Brownie knows what it's like to step on the ice and say, I only got one job and that's to find a way to put the puck in the net. So, Brownie, you tell me what Pettersson's going through right now in Vancouver. Well, he's got the weight of the world on his shoulders now. Rick Talkett made sure of that. I would hope that before this happened

that this would have been a conversation between Talkett and Pettersson privately or in the dressing room and that eventually it would escalated to the point that he called him out publicly. One of two things are going to happen. I'm sure that you've played with a bunch of these players too, Kipper,

where the coach gets on it and kicks the player in the butt and screams at him and yells at him and the player either responds by going out there and saying, screw you, I'm going to show you how good I am or the player curls up in the corner and can't handle the pressure. I played for Hitch as a 15- or 16-year-old. I learned very quickly to say, screw you, coach, I'm going to go out and show you I'm better,

because that's the way he coached. But there are players that I've played with, when the coach wrote them, they got worse. They couldn't handle the pressure. And I guess we're going to find out in the next few hours if Elias Pettersson's a guy that when the spotlight is on him, if he gets bigger or if he shrinks, because he has not been good in this series.

And the Vancouver Canucks, despite their best player not being around in this series, and their top goalie being out, are tied 2-2. Imagine where they could be if Pettersson the playing to the ability that he has, because he's a much better player than we've seen. I think that's the frustration right now for Canucks fans is they feel like they've been in games and, you know,

two, two is, is good, but maybe they want a little bit more. Give us your, just your overall view of the series so far, how it's gone versus how you expected it to go. Well, I called before the series.

I thought the Oilers would win in six. And so far, the Canucks have done their part for me by winning the two games. I think for carrying the play, I think the Oilers have carried more of the play, had more of the better chances offensively. I think Stuart Skinner didn't play to the capabilities that he's able to. And a couple of those goals that were scored allowed the Canucks to stay in games.

I believe the Canucks' goaltending has been fantastic. Sheloff's been amazing in this series. And the Canucks, I give them credit. They have this don't-say-die attitude. They're never out of the game. Their willingness to block shots, to throw hits, to dive to get pucks out of their zone their will their willingness to block shots to throw hits to dive to get pucks out of their zone their compete level is through the roof they are full deserving to be in this series but i do believe that tonight's game is more important

to the canucks than it is to the oilers i do believe that if the canucks win tonight you know they set themselves up pretty good if the the Oilers lose tonight, I still think the Oilers can win on home ice and win Game 7. I don't know if the Canucks, if they lose, can go in and win Game 6 in Edmonton. I think this is, tonight, this is the Canucks Game 7 tonight. I think if they win

this game, they have a chance. But, I mean, anything can happen. It's just a weird series. We were talking the other day in September. If someone had said the Canucks and the Oilers are going to Game 5, we're like, fantastic. And it's been – the goaltending is the talk of the series. Like, oh, Demko and Skinner, Demko and Campbell are having a fantastic series.

And the fact that Shelov and Pickard playing in Game 5 just shows you that both teams' seasons went a little sideways at some point. We're talking to Rob Brown, former National Hockey Leaguer, Edmonton Oilers analyst for Ched. How big or gutsy was the decision by the Oilers to make a switch in that?

I think it was huge. Before the game I said I would have played Skinner. It's the safer bet. He's your number one guy if well we we lost with their number one guy we did we gave him a chance so to go to a a third string journeyman type goaltender uh it was a gutsy call by the coach having said that pickard was excellent uh he was excellent all year long one of the main reasons the oilers were able to make their surge up the standings was the play of Pickard because

they were able to play him and they didn't have to run Skinner into the ground uh they didn't have to make a trade for a goaltender which would have taken someone off the roster somewhere else so Calvin Pickard through his play this year earned the right to be called upon in a playoff game and what it was a feel-good story for their team. Here's a guy that I think someone on our podcast, it's like been 4,000 days since his first NHL win to his first playoff win. That's a pretty incredible story.

So I'm glad they went with Pickard tonight. I think it's the right call tonight in this hockey game. He won the game last game. He deserves to have the crease again. That was, I was with you. I said before the game, like he deserves to have the crease again that was i was with you i said before the game like i would have started skinner because if pickard wins then what then you're now pickards you're starting goalie like that's not a situation you want to be in but i guess you just kind of make it the situation until he loses a game then give give the ball

back to skinner to try again um well i guess it all depends on how the game goes. If the Oilers win 7-6 tonight, then okay, I can make a case that Skinner goes in. But if Pickard comes in, they win a game, and he plays well again, then yeah, you go with Skinner. Or excuse me, Pickard. You go with Pickard again. You got to go with your heart. It's not a time of year for petting in the National Hockey League or looking after the feelings of players.

It's about wins and losses. And the Edmonton Oilers, rightly or wrongly, said cup or bust in training camp. This is a team that's built for today. And if right now you feel that Calvin Pickard gives you the best chance of winning this game and this series, then Calvin Pickard's the guy. And he's earned the right with the way he's played all season long. Brownie, the Oilers, another power play goal in game four.

That gives them one in every game so far. And once upon a time, you were part of a pretty potent power play with the likes of Mario Lemieux. I mean, what is it with this power play that we've really never seen before? Well, first, Connor McDavid is the greatest power play player the NHL has ever seen. And I've played with Mario. I've played against Gretzky and Messi and all these greats. But on the power play, I don't think anybody can do what he does. First, it starts with the fact that he carries the puck from his own zone in.

They have 100% guaranteed entry every single time the puck gets dumped down. Every time. And no other team in the National Hockey League can do that. When they get in the offensive zone, they have five players that can pass. They have five players that can shoot. When you look at other great power plays in the NHL, you look at Tampa, for example, you know where Kucherov and Stamkos are going to be standing the whole time. They're still successful. They execute great. But, you know where Kucherov and Stamkos are going to be standing the whole time. They're still successful.

They execute great. But you always know where they are. And if you're a penalty killer, you're trying to get into that passing lane or shooting lane. You can't play passive against the Oilers because if the passing lane is not there, they move. Connor McDavid starts on the blue line. He ends up below the goal line. He's in the slot. He's now in front of the net.

Dry settle moves everywhere. And it's really hard for a penalty killer because you think, okay, I've got him. He's in the right spot. Then all of a sudden you look, he's gone, and the pass goes by you. Their retrieval is as good as any in the National Hockey League. If there's a loose puck, I got my money on the Edmonton Oilers

winning that loose puck. And then the biggest thing is their skill level is better than any in the National Hockey League. I mean, Leon Dreissel, when he scores from a foot off the goal line, you think, okay, as a defender, okay, I got him in a bad shooting area. Good. Okay, he's one less guy to think about. If it goes to him, there's no way he can score from there.

And then it goes from him and he scores. He has his feet below the goal line and hits the net. So even when you do everything right as a penalty killer, they can still make you pay. You just need to me, it's a lot of luck and fantastic. Goaltending is the only way that you get through it. And the only way you can have any success against the others power play is

by staying out of the penalty box. Such good analysis. Just cause like the, you know, as you see McDavid and he's swirling around those own, he's in the slot. He's on one bumper. He's below the goal line. Like how, how do you, you do with your coverage? A great example.

It was the, the Leon goal last game. The Canucks did a great job keeping the stick in the lane, the passing lane, not allowing it. So McDavid just kept moving, moving, moving until eventually he found the passing lane. No other team in the National Hockey League does this. So the Canucks are not going to win if they take penalties because the Oilers' power play is just too good.

So I'm hoping you could tease out for us the Ekholm-Bouchard pairing. A lot of people were talking about, like, the Bouchard is stats. Like, this guy should be in the Norris conversation. I had one of the two on my Norris ballot. I had Ekholm in my fifth spot. Not Bouchard his stats like this guy should be in the norris conversation i had one of the two on my norris ballot i had ekholm in my fifth spot not bouchard i i think that he's just the anchor i mean last couple games he gets run and then he scores and he gets run and then nugent hopkins

scores it doesn't matter he just seems to make the right plays no matter how many times you hit this guy well it's funny uh going into there they're announcing who's going to be up for the north they're talking about mccarr and hughes and then coming into this series they're comparing hughes with bouchard and i said and they're like well does bouchard deserve to be in the north is he deserved to be in the conversation with those players i'm like well be honest bouchard is fantastic has a great year his upside his upside is huge but he's not the best defenseman on his team matthias ekholm's the best defenseman uh bouchard is going to get all the print and one year he's going to

score 25 goals in this he might score 30 he could be a hundred point guy uh and he will eventually be in the norris conversations but right now matthias ekholm's their best defenseman he is one of the best in the national hockey league and he And he does everything. And I'm sure, and I've never talked to Bouchard about this, but I'm sure he will credit some of the success he's had with being paired with Ekholm when Ekholm came over last year at the trade deadline. He just settled down, Evan. And just settled down and gave him the confidence

to be who you are. Don't worry about the mistakes. I'm there for you if you make a mistake. But Ekholm just gives you everything. He blocks shots. Physical, not in a Soucy or Zdorov way, mistakes i'm there for you if you make a mistake but ekholm just gives you everything he blocks shots physical not in a susie or zadorov way but a physical where he he just eliminates you from the play he jumps up he's got more offense than anyone expected and he was hidden at times in nashville because he's behind roman josie who's one of the greatest in the league but now we're

getting to see on a nightly basis oh and, when he's lugging the mail, he makes good decisions, makes pretty plays, and he's got a bomb of a shot. So 100%, I love the fact that you put him on the Norris ballot because I do believe he's one of the best defensemen in the National Hockey League. Bouchard has settled somewhat defensively, though, not making nearly the mistakes that we've seen in the past. If he's going to win a Norris, he's got to win it like Carlson's won it the last couple.

Massive points. Massive. Just big numbers. I agree. And he's got the ability to do that. If this Oiler team keeps both Leon and Connor, they've got Hyman and Nugel are locked up for years. Their power play is going to be good for years.

And Bouchard's part of that. He's going to get his points. But I was talking about this just the other day. If you look at the body of work that Evan Bouchard has put together in the playoffs, and I was a guy that's talked about Bouchard all season long, great offensive defenseman, not yet a great defenseman, because there's more than just scoring points. But in this playoff run, he's been very good in both ends.

I can't remember the big mistake that he's made yet in the playoffs. I can't remember where he hasn't eliminated a guy that he should have or in front of the net get caught looking the wrong way. He's been very, very good both ends. I mean, you don't play 31 minutes like you did a couple nights ago unless you're on top of your game, both in the offensive and defensive zone. So as much as there's still warts in his game and he's still learning to play at this level,

I think he's made huge strides in this playoffs to becoming a better all-round defenseman. And the Oilers have needed all of those minutes out of him because there have been struggles on the back end. Bouchard has not been part of those struggles. Brownie, going into the series, I had trouble seeing a way that the canucks were going to hang with edmonton but they are hanging with edmonton what what needs to happen here is it just production from the bottom six even strength what are you seeing out of the oilers that has

kept it from being i think most people had them as a favorite so kept it from being how most people had them as a favorite, so kept it from being how most people thought it would go. Well, I think in the first few games, goaltending, I think that not that Skinner was bad, but you got a goalie in one end. She loves making these huge saves, taking away goals. I mean, you stop Leon Dreissel on back-to-back breakaways. I mean, those are sure things. I've watched all season long.

So the others weren't getting the safe. So that's the one big thing. And in all honesty, they're getting one line scoring. It's, it's been behind Connor and Leon and their power play. They've gotten there. The others haven't got a point out of their third line in the playoffs. Yeah. Their fourth line doesn't play enough minutes.

They get six minutes. They're not getting enough to produce at all. But up until last game, Evander had been quiet in this series. R&H has been quiet in this series. Fogle, McLeod, Perry, they need more of those players. So right now the Vancouver Canucks are trying to survive a shift when Connor and Leon are out. And then they get a big sigh.

Okay, we got another three minutes before we have to... Okay, here comes the stress again. So if the Oilers can find some production in their bottom six, then all of a sudden, the 3-2 game is a 5-3 game or a 5-2 game. But they're not getting that separation because they're not getting anything

out of their bottom six. Although, if you look at the opposite side, I mean, Elias Pettersson, who I believe is being moved up tonight, he's been going head-to-head against the McLeod line. Neither line scored any goals. It's one of those ones that Vancouver really should have had a huge edge, and they weren't able to take advantage of it.

Tonight's game, if either team gets something out of their bottom six, that's probably the team that's going to win the hockey game. Oilers did get a big hit out of Evander Kane though on Hronik on the game-winning goal on Bouchard. I got to assume that we're going to see some more of that tonight. Zdorov-Kane kind of matchup. It's been fun to watch, hasn't it?

It has. I've got a newfound respect for Zdorov from the Canucks. I tell you, whatever team he plays for, he's the fan favorite. And I'm watching him from afar. I'm an Oiler fan, Oiler guy. I'm like, okay, that guy is good to watch. He plays the game the right way. I do believe there will be physicality because you've got Soucy

back in the lineup. I think they certainly missed him last game. But what the Canucks realize is you can't run out of position to make big hits. We saw the – was it Yulson? Is that how you pronounce his name? Yulson, yeah. He makes the – I mean, he runs out of position.

Not only does he take himself out, but he stopped two back checkers from getting back in time because he just cleaned house. So you can't do that against the Oilers. But I do believe the Canucks have to be physical, and they have been, and it's been effective. I thought the game-winning goal by the Oilers the other night doesn't happen if Kane doesn't run Hronik through the boards.

And then all of a sudden, the rest of the shift, Hronik was, he looked fatigued, looked tired, didn't force Leon down low, allowed the best passer in the National Hockey League all the time in the world to survey the scene and make the right play. But I think it's going to be another one-goal game. I really do. I think Vancouver's going to come out with their best effort. You have players getting called out.

You've got Soucy back in the lineup. You have a couple new guys jumping into their lineup. I think this is going to be the Canucks' best game of the series, and I do believe the Oilers will match it. Good game coming tonight, Kip. I think we're out of time. Awesome stuff, Brownie. Really appreciate

your time. Thanks for doing this. Brownie, you're the best. Anytime, guys. Thanks, pal. That is Rob Brown. Take care, guys. He was so good on the Ed edmonton power i know it's a guy who can and he's absolutely right that is like 100 percent entry the tough yeah the the free entry is massive because you saw the leafs all playoffs fail at that oh did they they did oh okay but the toughest part is a pk guy is is figuring out the rotation like okay it moves here is it me is it you where we going and when mcdavid just circles around it's like it's me it's me it's me i'm kind of in your zone is it you where are we and it's

internet when you have a guy that's automatic from the sideboards too that's helpful also helpful yeah like the pass at brownie was like the kind of no look right the tape being with three guys on mcdavid what do you do i was thinking you can't get the most out of a guy like mcdavid The pass at Brownie was like the kind of no look, right in the tape, bang with three guys on McDavid. What do you do? I was thinking you can't get the most out of a guy like McDavid unless you have someone like Dreisaitl, someone who can take advantage of all the looks he creates. He's like legitimately scoring like close to a Gretzky pace in the playoffs.

Like he's unbelievable. Dreisaitl. Yes. He is a ridiculous. Somebody tweeted us. It's like, why are people, why can't. McDavid called him the second best player in the world. Of course he did. That's his teammate. He is a ridiculous. Somebody tweeted us. It's like, why are people, why can't. David called him the second best player in the world. Of course he did.

That's his teammate. He did though. Like, as in like, I'm better than him because he is, but it's just. He's a classic hockey player in the world. He's actually McCarter and then dry cycle. Yeah. Yeah. That's right.

He would never say it's me. Think about how much Edmonton is going to have to spend on him if they want to get him signed. July 1st. Oh, my God. So much money. 15. 15, 16. 16?

Buddy, numbers are going up in this thing. The numbers are going up. If they want to get him signed on a long-term deal, you're doing the math on where it's going. Salary cap. Matthew it's going. Wow. Salary cap. Matthew's got 13.5. That's Kelly Olenek money.

16 won't be a stretch on a long-term deal for Leon Dreisaitl. Wow. You know what? Good. The hockey money is pathetic compared to the other pro sports. Let's ramp it up. Yeah. All right. We're doing a game.

Let's hit a break so we can get back for a gravy and then we'll do game time after. Sounds good, Sammy. Good plan. Good producing. Thank you. All right. You heard the man. We're back after these words.

Covering the Blue Jays from an analytical perspective. Jays Talk Plus with Blake Murphy. Be sure to subscribe and download Jay's Talk on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Vic Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. A couple minutes, we'll get get adam graves to help us tee up

the new york rangers carolina here's a great question on the text line hello gentlemen please ask the panel and kipper so i guess ask myself and bernie and kipper if dry settles were 15 to 16 million the following year on july 1st can they mcdDavid, how much does he work? $17 to $19 million, says John. Yeah, that's a good question. I probably would have said a year ago that somehow, someway, if you're the Edmonton Oilers, you've got to come up with a number that would include both of them. So $30, $32 million, and you guys figure it out.

Interesting. $17 million and $15 million or something. $17 million, $15 million. I don't think McDavid would run away, take that much more than the next highest. No, he'd have to have that in consideration. Okay, interesting. We didn't have to deal with any of that salary cap stuff when we played. Thank goodness, Adam.

Right. It was. Yeah, exactly. Kip, you remember those meetings we used to have back in the day with heels? Don't tell anyone what you make. Was that the meeting? No, actually. Salary disclosure came out when Bob Goodenow came in in the early 90s.

Things obviously changed. But no, we were together in the lockout right after the Cup in 94. Myself and Kipper and Heels ran the meeting. So I'm not sure how efficient it was, but we had a lot of fun. All I remember is the cart came in. The beer cart came in. This will fix it. This will help us come up with answers.

Gravy, how are you? Hey, Barney, we'll leave it at that. Yeah, I got the picture. I got it. Alright, so big game tonight. Thanks for joining us. Let's get your thoughts in terms of Carolina extending this series and what it means

to the New new york rangers now going into what will be a very hostile environment in carolina well everyone knows from seeing this team in carolina the type of support they get and it's a building that is electric down there the relationship between the uh the team and the in the community and the city is extraordinary. And when you have a coach like Brenda Moore and the way he played, and I often say this, that players will take on the character of their coach. And Carolina is no different. And when you think about, even though this is the second round,

you have the number one team in the league playing the number three team in the league, and there was three points separating the two teams. And every shift of every game has been incredible. And for me, the hockey played in this series has been just absolutely outstanding. And as much as I'm wearing a lot of blue, like Borny there, I'm also a hockey fan. And I will tell you that hockey's never been better, the skill level and all the series across the National Hockey League.

But in the playoffs, Kipper and you know, it ramps up a little bit because you get a little bit of the old style with the physicality. It comes up to a different level where every hit is, every opportunity guys are finishing their checks to just the skill level, to the power plays to the adjustments from game to game and you see it in every series but certainly this series the hockey has been spectacular in my opinion and you know gravy we're gonna you're gonna get back on the ice in a sec but i am fascinated by your title um with hockey and business operations

because you've seen the passion from fans in New York there since, you know, going back, obviously a lot of years, you guys win a president's trophy this year. What is it like? What is the fan base like now compared to what it used to be? Is there,

I guess more, is it less passionate? Just your, your sense in the different vibe for maybe the early nineties till now. Well, I would say a few things and, and certainly in the early 90s, and Kip will tell you that it is an absolute privilege

and gift to wear that jersey and be on guard nice. But I would also tell you that the game has grown so much, whether you're looking at a guy like Adam Fox, North's trophy winner from Long Island, grew up following the Rangers, as have other players in the National Hockey League. But when you think of the industry growth fund, which is the National Hockey League and the NHL Players Association, which is trying to grow the game in New York, it's probably the fastest growing market in all of the United States.

When you look at it, our Junior Rangers program has between 12 and 14,000 kids with sticks in their hand, whether it's school programs on ice, learn to play our girls program. We have a Peewee team that we send to Quebec boys, Peewee team and a girls Peewee tour team that we send to tournaments, hopefully in Quebec next year. So the growth of the game has been amazing. And I'd like to think in a small way, we might've had a little bit of influence on that in the early 90s but certainly as it's it's it's moved forward and into the 2000s this industry growth fund has been amazing and what it's done for for the game and opportunity and giving these

kids an opportunity to put a stick in their hand a full set of equipment 12 weeks of one hour and what it means and it's not just the boys, it's boys and girls, families. And for me, the growth of the game has been outstanding. And when you look at going to a game at the Garden, in the 90s, I can remember when John Amirante was singing the National Anthem in Game 7, you couldn't hear him sing. I will tell you that it has come back to that level of energy at the garden now when it's John Brancy who sings. It is amazing.

And it's one of those buildings, and I will tell you, I'm down there all the time. You want to be in the building 15, 20 minutes, a half an hour before the drop of the puck because so much of anything people talk about back in our day, how about this game? How about this play? Do you remember? Kind of.

But you remember kind of but you remember everything around it you remember the parade the friendships um the the meetings uh kip but we won't go back to that but it's a camaraderie it's being at the rink in the morning and and having our team stretch with eddie olchek and listening to uh heels and kipper back and forth and then then uh mike ricker it's all those personal and Kipper back and forth and Mike Bricker. It's all those personal, the energy and the people and the interactions, but the energy at the Garden, it's right back to its highest level, and it's an amazing place to play in,

and it's one of those buildings that you want to be in there early, and it's no different now for the Knicks. As you know, you've seen the Knicks on the NBA side and how close our two organizations are, you know, we're, we're brother, you know, brothers in the same organization and the energy when you have both teams, you know, having some success in the playoffs, it just brings the energy level sport energy level in the city to a

completely different level. We're talking to Adam Graves, graves former nhler ranger great hockey business operations with the rangers so gravy a guy like chris crider is uh has really moved up the ranks in legendary status with the new york rangers and uh um just one of those guys where it it took a while um but uh could be very influential here in the next couple of games here for the Rangers. Well, when you talk about Chris, and I've known him since he was 18 years old, and I can remember his first development camp, he came into camp,

and that was when he was jumping out of pools. Unlike you and I, Kip, where we roll out of a pool. Yeah. Jump out one leap. But he was maybe 6'1", 185 pounds. You see him now where 6'3", 235 pounds. He's as dedicated an athlete as there is. What he does in the community is leadership both on and off the ice.

But for me, his evolution as a player and his small game, his small area game that he has just taken to another level. I think if you look statistically without getting into analytics as far as sticks on pucks and tips and being able to make plays in tight areas around the net, his game has gone to a completely different level. And that's why in the history of the New York Rangers, which is 98 years now going on 100, he scored more playoff goals than anyone in the history of organizations.

So he's a guy that, first and foremost, is just a character guy. And he always saves his best for the most important times in the game and certainly most important times of the season. But it stems from character. And he's a guy that with his speed, he can beat you in a lot of ways. But his small area game is really, he's taken it to a completely different level. So anytime you have success in the playoffs, you need a couple of guys to sort of take a step

and produce maybe beyond what expectations were. Has Lafreniere been that guy? Like just from the outside looking in, it seems like this guy has found a level here that people had hoped he would eventually get to. Well, Barney, I'll tell you this. incredibly talented group and organically they've they've grown because of their their youth um is is now kind of growing into you know into uh uh men and getting man strong and whether that's uh lefreniere kako uh snyder miller i mean i could go on and on about all the younger guys that you have three or four or five years in the national hockey league you grow in you've grown into your body mentally you're growing into understanding the game

and what it takes to have success. But the interesting part is when you look at this team, it's a team that at different points throughout the entire season have depended on different lines to step up and different players to step up at different points. And their special teams, as an example, their power play, you've seen the way. And I will tell you, in any seven-game series, teams are going to make adjustments. And you're going to make adjustments both to defend and then offensively on the on the reverse side of the coin you're

going to make adjustments to counteract their adjustments so there's always that humbling factor but this team including Lafreniere and their lineup they're a team that really depends on each other and if you're shut down one line whether it's the Trocek line then you know you still have to deal with the Sabanajad line. And then you've got the Cooley line with Kako. So they've got a lot of different. And even, you know, when you talk about, you know, Rempe on the fourth line, you know, what they bring to a game with Goudreau, who is obviously a proven winner, a two-time

Stanley Cup champion. So they've got a lot of different elements. And certainly on their back end, you see their defense that has matured both organically because of age, but also because of experience and the number of years in the league. And they've got a little bit of everything back there. And then on top of that, the goaltending tandem of shisterkin and certainly quick uh three times stanley cup champion so they've they've got a team with a lot of experience but they're also playing against

a team that they respect greatly i mean caroline has been a heck of a hockey team for for a long time now and and uh their their record would would say that and the way they play on a nightly basis the way they're coached the way they approach the game, they are full marks. They're an outstanding team led by an outstanding coach. And for me, one of the great elements is looking at the two coaches. You know, Laviolette, you know, is a guy that coached and won a championship with his captain, who is now, you know, they're one in three in the league of 32 teams.

Pretty impressive. Certainly some great storylines just on lafreniere you know i'm watching him gravy and he kind of reminds me um and you mentioned adjustments and we can't forget the the eastern conference in 1994 when um keenum bumped up uh alex kovalev up with you and mess to, to turn that, that guarantee into a lock for us by, by mess. But Lafreniere strikes me as maybe this, this year's version of an Alex where he's got the skill to,

to be a difference maker here. Do you see some similarities if we don't completely look at the skill for skill factor here? Yeah, and I will tell you this, and it's a blanket statement for anyone that's ever played the game. The thousands of National Hockey League players at Borny, Alex Kovalev,

might be in the top three most skilled players that I have ever seen, witnessed. We used to play. So we used to play keep away. And I know it's playoff time, but we used to play keep away for 10 minutes after practices all the time. Kipper play, I play, Book, Joey Kosher. And there'd be some more skilled guys than us playing. But we would play keep away. And this wasn't like your regular keep away where you're just kind of stick checking and stick on puck if you could you know cream a guy into the boards

you were trying to like literally it was the most physical keep away and we would play for 10 minutes and i am not exaggerating kip you can jump in if i'm correct yeah alex kovalev would have the puck on a stick for nine of the 10 minutes you couldn't't get it off him. He would put it out in front of you, pull it, he'd put it back into his skates. If you thought, oh, you know what? He was young at the time. He came to the league at 6'1", maybe 190 pounds. He finished his career at 230, 6'3", ridiculous.

But I tried to trip him on purpose and I couldn't do it. Oh, or if you lined him up he just reversed shoulder you like yeah and you'd be down on your end but it was ridiculous how skilled he was but to get back to left right here there's a reason you know he went uh and not only his competitiveness his physicality there's a reason he went uh first overall and he and he's just growing into his body he's growing in he's finding out who he is and and you know what I think that's playing with Trocek and Panarin that those three complement each other so it's not a one-way street it's I think in many ways they've really I think it's it's helped all of them in in different ways but certainly his

his youthfulness and you've seen it, you know, where he had a couple goals earlier in the series. He's a player that can be a difference maker without question. He works extremely hard, and he's a great kid. Hey, Gravy, that's awesome stuff. Just one more thing, and, you know, you're the co-founder of Smile Zone, and I think you guys hit a milestone today. It's a charity that does an amazing job of improving the lives of children

that receive medical, whatever medical situation that they're in, in your health facilities. Anything you want to mention there with Smile Zone? No, we had Paul Henderson. It was our 400th zone. And Kip, you are as supportive as any of my, sorry, we're brothers and buddies. We, Kip, born, Kipper and I grew up together in Toronto

at Seneca College Hockey School in our mid-teens. And they've been buddies. And he's there every year and our goal he's always there's he never says no um and uh that's the gift of the game and borny even last night i was watching i see you all the time and i see kip obviously uh but last night when they're talking about your dad and uh and i saw ron talking just fantastic uh for me that's the gift of the game is the people and what you can do with the game. Smile zone is we just go into hospitals and we try to put in fun areas to put a smile on their face.

We all have kids or have had kids or deal with kids. And you know what? There's nothing more important. So for us to have this opportunity to use hockey in a small way as a platform with some of these things, Paul Henderson, as classy a man as there is, has been a huge, he's been an ambassador for over a decade. But 400 zones and growing, Kip.

It was at Humber River. It was fantastic. And we look forward to many, many more. And certainly with the support of good people and good friends, it makes the journey that much more fun. 400 across Canada. Gravy, Congratulations on that. Keep up the great work.

The game's lucky to have you involved in it, pal. Thanks for doing this. Yeah. Thanks so much for your time. Great to see you guys. Well, I'll be,

I'll continue to watch. Thank you. Adam Graves. What a class act. No kidding. Wow. That's awesome. 400.

Love it. Kovalev. Nasty. Yeah. Who doesn't love a good story of Alex Kovalev. Nasty. Yeah. Who doesn't love a good story of Alex Kovalev? Oh, gosh. He was so much fun, and he's one of those guys where, like, he's a sponge. He decides to go get his pilot's license.

Kovalev. Kovalev. And he gets his pilot's license. One day he comes into the dressing room. His lips are like daffy ducks. I'm like, did you get punched in the face he goes no i'm learning how to play the saxophone i'm like oh my god your lips are like swollen he goes yeah i didn't sleep last night i was playing the saxophone for like 12 hours. That's incredible.

I love that. Great. Love that guy. Fun fact, I played saxophone in high school. I also played saxophone. I own a saxophone. There's a saxophone at my house. I wanted to saxophone so badly, but I got strings and they gave me the bass.

Oh, boring. Oh, the worst. That's the worst instrument you can play. The worst. All right. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app, play the odds, and find out why it's never ordinary.

Bet365 must be 19+. Tereo only. Please play responsibly. So just a couple wonderful hockey games on the ice tonight. New York Rangers in Carolina. The Carolina Hurricanes are pretty huge favorites tonight. They are minus 160 favorites. Wow.

To me, I guess they have a really big home ice advantage they're the hotter team that to me is a little bit of a fishy number i do like the rangers at plus 135 i do think they're the better team it's just dirkin at plus 135 tough to say no i wish i had the stats on like how many times even a team down three i was even forced to game seven like it feels like it's a big task to beat a team like the rangers many times even a team down three ohs even forced a game seven like it feels like it's a big task to beat a team like the rangers three times in a row and to get the rangers at plus 135 seems like a great number to me so that's what i'm looking at hold on before you tell us the next one can i give you a trocheck stat i just found while searching through their

numbers yes he leads the uh rangers in uh ice time their forwards in ice time second place is zabana jet at 2047. He's at 2311. Trochek is playing over 23 minutes. I know there's some overtime in there probably. But over 23 minutes per game for the Rangers. As a forward, that's nutty. He is, you know how I love to have my most underrated guys in the league conversation.

He's actually in it. He's leading them in shots as well. Can you see Freddie Anderson beating Shuster in three games in a row? I know, that's why. I picked him to win the Vezna. I'm out of my mind. Yes, I can.

That's why, to me. Not the Vezna. The Contamite. Yeah, I don't know. The Rangers, to me, that's just plus 1 in 35. It's a great number. And the Edmonton Oilers are minus 150 favorites tonight in Vancouver. Plus 125 for the Vancouver Canucks on the money line,

if you want to go that way. It's a pretty big number and quickly before we go, massive game in the NBA tonight. Denver Nuggets, Minnesota Timberwolves, Nikola Jokic just putting on an absolute show. Love him to death. Give me the Denver Nuggets on the money line, plus 115.

Jamal Murray, good Canadian boy. They're going to end the series tonight and head to the semifinals in the NBA. Do you see the Matthew J Okich about why he's been throwing the dunks down so hard? He's become a freak of nature. I love that man. He's my favorite. Him and Anthony Edwards are my two favorite players

in the NBA, and they're playing against each other. So there you go. A little NBA action for you tonight as well. That was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. It must be 19 plus. Ontario only.

Please play responsibly. Okay. What happens in Vancouver tonight? That's quite the number on Vancouver. Plus 125. That they, you know, are at home. That they were the better team. Well, had more points in the regular season.

I just feel like the Oilers are going to oil at some point. They're going to score four goals at some point in the game. I feel like Pickard will give up a couple. 4-3? 4-3 Oilers? I picked the Vancouver Canucks to win this series. They're going to win this series. They've got to win this game.

Give me the Vancouver Canucks 5-4 overtime winners tonight. Rob Brown with a good analysis that tonight's game seven for Vancouver. It's interesting. They need it. And I think they're going to win a 5-4. I think it's a good one, seven. Yeah. So who's the one tonight? I'll take Vancouver

at home tonight, too. It's funny. They're playing a game that is really taking away from the Oilers at five on five. They haven't got that depth scoring. I can see it being close. I can see it being close. I can see it being close for sure. I love this Vancouver team, boys.

I really do. I love the squad. I love Zdorov. Yeah. JT Miller. Fan base in Vancouver. They're invested, boy. Oh, yeah.

They are. For sure. My boy Gaz is taking it hard, and he's not even mean to them. How about Kel McCarr, boys? Dancing. Yeah, we didn't even mean to him how about kill my car boys dancing running we didn't even mention well i mean lots it's the off day for that one but god tomorrow we'll uh we'll we'll give it to its proper time but this guy is he's he's our modern day bobby or he really is yeah the way he skates is on i mean i know heiskanen is an

unbelievable skater too but the way myar makes people miss is otherworldly. I played one of the best and just had gravy in Brian Leach. I don't want to take anything away from Brian Leach, but this guy is quicker. Makar's doing things statistically better than anyone. That even Brian didn't have. It is phenomenal. He has that juke where he's just seems macar is doing things quicker quick twitch statistically than anyone that even brian didn't have yeah it is phenomenal like juke where he's going at guys and it reminds me of a football running back like you know got a guy isolated he's earl campbell do you remember earl campbell the running back well how about we'll go with like maybe marshall falk or you know peterson he's got running back. Yeah. Like fast twitch muscles.

And just lateral movement. And he, whoever, whatever winger he turned into dust last night, he then cut back into the slot. And I just, Nathan McKinnon is just, the puck lands on his stick in a sweet spot. They need the goal. Dallas is better. And he just hits the back of the neck

hard. Like it's just, there was never, when he picked that puck up at the hash marks, there was never a doubt that was hitting the mesh. God, I love McKay. Hey guys, listen, before we go to, before we end the show, a lot of tributes going in for TSN host Darren Titian. We got the

news today that has moved on. Our condolences to the Titian family. Our condolences to our friends at TSN. I know over the years we've had this rivalry, but I assure everybody that's just there for servicing all of you for the best product that we have out there. We have got many good friends over at TSN,

and we just want them to know we are as sad on this side as you are on your side as well. I will say, like, he is one of the main reasons I did this kind of stuff. Him on SportsCenter in the morning, like, I love that. If you didn't know him, you'd still feel like he was your buddy. Absolutely. So glad you said that, Kip. That's an awful loss for the sports community.

So there you go. All right, two games on hand tonight. Enjoy them, and we're back tomorrow on Off the Rails Friday.