Real Kyper & Bourne - What the Lottery Means for the Leafs

Episode Date: May 5, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee get set for a pivotal moment in the Toronto Maple Leafs' offseason: the NHL Draft Lottery. They discuss the different scenarios and what it'd mean for the Leafs to keep their pick, the signs pointing to the Leafs keeping Craig Berube for 2026-27, and Auston Matthews' mentality ahead of next season. Later, former Leafs GM Gord Stellick (32:53) stops by to share his thoughts on John Chayka and Mats Sundin's introduction, why he's not convinced a top-5 pick will make a big impact on a potential turnaround next season, and the noise around Matthews. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Let's get her going here. We got a terrific show for you today, Tuesday. In about half an hour, Gord Stelik will join us. Steve Aliquette, top of the hour. We're glad you're aboard. Wherever you're watching, listening, it's the real Kipper and Bourne show. Live on Sportsnet 360, 590, the fan in Toronto. Streaming always on Sportsnet Plus.

And available at your convenience on Spotify, Apple, and YouTube. Mm-hmm. Love a thumbs up. Like I said, great guests today. Good conversation. We'll follow up what we thought on John Chica and Matt Sundeen and Studio. What it means moving forward for Toronto Maple Leaf fans, short and long term. Also, a big mention to a 7 p.m. Eastern across all platforms.

What's the night? The NHL draft lottery. It's the league. Stanley Cup final tonight. I'm actually way too excited about it. Nick Caprio's Justin Born. Sammy McKee, Jake the Snake Shills, Derek Brindale next two hours with you.

Sammy. Yeah, I know, Mike. It was meant to be. Are you done for today? We actually insisted upon that. All right. Can they not just turn it on? That I don't know the answer to.

They can't. No. You got to reset. Whatever you got to do, you got to reset. Are you not IT? Okay. Let's just get into this lottery thing, J.B. And I don't know how far back we have to go between today and the regular season,

but I think it was around January where you made the ability to draft a player this season. a top priority for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah, well. And your wishes almost come true. They got themselves into a position where it's viable. It's less than 50% likely, but it is an option tonight. And, you know, I think a lot of what happens over the coming summer hinges on the lottery balls tonight. You know, we had Chica in here yesterday.

And we talked a bit about the future. we asked him about the vision. I just can't imagine that it isn't greatly affected by the outcome. He didn't promise playoffs next year. Do you notice that? They didn't say, hey, we're going to turn this thing around and get back in it next year. I think they kind of want to wait and see,

are we getting a top five player before they make that kind of decision? All right. We'll get into that in the meantime. Just so everyone's clear. The wrench in all of this is the 2025 trade between Boston and the Toronto Maple Leafs for Brandon Carlo, which had included a top five protected

first round pick this season. If any team below the Maple Leafs move up with the exception of Washington, the Leafs lose this season's pick.

Correct. And even that in itself would be clarity, right? It would be like, okay, next year you're giving up your pick. You've got a top 10 protected pick. for next year, it would change how you would approach this off-season. So, yeah, you're going to get that clarity. The one thing I do wonder,

I don't think it's working. We've got a different machine over there now, but you want to come over and sit beside me and we'll share? Sammy, this is the best thing never happened to you. Sammy. We'll over here, Sammy, and we'll share the mic. Come on.

We're being told you to change microphones. I don't know. means is there spare ones around? Yeah, I got one right here. Kipper's got a bonus, Mike. What's that mean? I'm like Mr. Dress-Up. I just go to the trickle trunk.

No? Probably tickle. A little too old for you guys. I think we're going to do the show. Then we're just going to cut Samia. We'll break early and we'll cut them off. What were we talking about? The draft.

Okay, so yeah, if anyone behind them wins the lottery, it would bump them to sixth, then therefore they would give the pick to Boston. Yeah. I think this is a really pivotal moment for for Chica and Matt's. Yeah. I do. I think, I almost want to compare it to Brendan Shanahan and the first overall pick that the lottery enabled them. Of course, the odds were with them, but there was still no guarantees. but it was that moment in the studio,

which I happened to be a part of, that the world changed for Toronto Maple Leaf fans with that first overall pick. And then there was just a tremendous amount of upside vibe, whatever you want to call it, this wave of this is heading in the right direction and we've got so much to look forward to. I don't believe a top five pick can do that,

but it will go up. long way for Chica and Matt's to even have that. We're a bit of a good luck charm. Yeah. Oh, totally. Totally. I do think that that would help them. I think if you look at Chica's history,

he's been very aggressive at the draft. He's made a lot of moves at the draft. And to hand him a chip like this, let's say a second overall pick falls to the Toronto Maple Leafs or something like that. I don't know that it's out of the question that they would use it differently than just picking a player. I don't. Like,

they picked seventh overall when he was in Arizona and he flipped that to Derek Steppen and Nanty Ranta. That was a horrible trade, by the way. Didn't go great. No. They also traded pick to move up from 20 to 16 and got chikrin and that one went great. You know, he's made moves at the draft. So I'm curious to see how quickly they would get aggressive.

If, because were they trying to make playoffs next year? You asked him expressly, right? Let actually Yeah I'm not sure if I got a lot of clear decisive answers out of him

And he does have a way Of kind of answering But not really answering It's very lawyerly It's very It's good It's not promising

He wanted to not promise anything I don't necessarily blame him On that either You get in trouble When you pin yourself down to things You know And you say here's what's gonna happen I think he's

I think he left himself open to if if it means that we're competing, we're competing and if we're not, then that's okay too and we'll just march on forward without, to your point, any promises. You think about how hard a day was

for him yesterday. Obviously the press conference was not good, you know, with some of the questions that were asked. He managed to, when the dust settled, get through the day without promising anything. Like they might rebuild, they might retooled,

They might retool. They might keep Matthews. They might not. We'll get into that. You know, they might do a lot of things. They might keep the coach. They might not. I do know that today was a fairly busy day, I think, for them.

They had a Zoom call with a lot of their staff. Is that right? And I think it'll break down into individual meetings to, I think for a lot of them to decide their fate on whether or not they're going to be part of the solution or they need to move on to something else. That seems to be coming in the next little while. I know there was, I think, a scheduled meeting today between Chica, probably Matson, Craig Brube.

There's nothing, at least, and this is not inside information, this is not what I know, but there's a real sense that they'll start the season with Craig Bruby as head coach. And for me, Personally, I think that's the right decision. Wow, do you? I do. Boy. And you don't.

No. I don't. You know what, though? I can understand the idea that it's not to say that you don't have that bullet in the chamber a few months in, if it's not going well. But I don't, it wasn't working. I didn't like the team played. I know. And I think, I think the worry is that at the end of the day, whether you have Craig Brew,

be there or, you know, told Blake, there's no coach that can get that team in the playoffs. I think that has to be a thought. Right. So let me ask you something, okay? Check us out. You're in. What we, who's, what kind of head coach would you go higher as early as September? Well, it'd be Cassidy for me.

Like, I just want someone who's. had success. To me, to me, Cassidy's the guy that you hire if you think you can win the Stanley Cup. Well, what are we trying to do? I think we're... That's a crucial question. What they're trying to do is figure out...

What they are. I know. And how long this thing may take. Like, if in fact it is... It ends up being a major rebuild which it still can be. Oh, yeah, it's more real, I think, than... Do you think your hiring of Bruce Cassidy,

he will out, he will last until this team's good and maybe three or four years? I mean, likely not, but... So now you've got to hire another coach when eventually that you think you're ready to win. But the problem is, if you want to genuinely assess what you are

and you feel, I'm an analyst, analytical guy and we've looked at all the analytics and they're bad and you want to genuinely find out what you are, you can't take the ice with a guy who you believe is costing me a dozen points. Like you just, you can't. To me, you can't find out what you are like that. Like if he talked about latent upside that this team has, to me it's a fresh start for a lot of guys could help. I don't know that how the stars feel about it. For Chika, there's a big difference between maybe in a year and a half or two years, hiring your second coach instead of hiring your first coach.

And he gets to hang on Craig Barubi that that was never my guy, right? That was not my hire. But now you're playing politics and you're not trying to win games. I know, but everybody plays politics. I agree, they do. They do. I think it's a relevant factor here for sure. But I don't think that makes it right.

Barubi buys him time. Now, he can't, can he come in now being off for six years and focusing on Tim Horton's, or I'm sorry, Wendy's, and then decide in a week or another lunch or dinner with Craig Bruby on whether or not he's the right guy or not? Well, that to me is why this is the hardest thing. And I actually don't even love that it was left to him to make that call because he hasn't been here. You're going to sit down, have a meeting with him.

Craig Barubi's a charming guy. He's won a Stanley Cup. in the past seven years, you're going to sit there and it's going to go great. It's going to go great. And so how do you then leave that meeting and go, hey, that meeting we had three days ago, decided I don't like you. I just, I don't, I can't see that happening. So I can see to your point how you would end up.

But, okay, this is going to bridge to the other part of this is you asked him yesterday about Austin Matthews. Yes. And is he a part of the solution? Do you have to sell him and we all agreed that sells maybe not the right word, but show him that this is viable. Yeah, yeah. I don't know where the captain falls on the coach,

and if that's relevant, but also, yeah, that conversation is the next step. And we flat out asked him if he felt like he was on the clock with Austin. Yeah. Sammy, do we have that? His response. Brandeio, can you play Chica on Matthews? His response to Kippre yesterday?

I believe Sammy put it in pre-show as a late edition. I don't know if you had a chance to hear Leon Dreisadle talk about the Edminton Oiler situation, not that you have anything to do with that. I talked to Craig last night.

Look, he's a guy that's a respected leader for over decades. Oh, sorry. The Austin Matthews reference to being on the clock. From the 60... Yeah, it's a fair question.

I just start by saying, you know, my experience with Austin in Arizona, I was the general manager there as he was coming up before he was drafted even. And just to watch him, you know, live, his passion for the game, the quality of player he is, the quality of person he is. I was very fortunate to get to know his dad, Brian, his mom, Emma, his sisters, his family, his agent. So you'd get a really good perspective on who Austin is. and the type of people he surrounds himself with.

So he's one of the top goal scores last decade, if not the top goal score. He's a 200-foot-centerman, plays a game the right way. I just came from an organization where we spent our entire existence looking for that exact player. So we're incredibly fortunate to have Austin. And, you know, I think it is, yeah, I agree with the way you termed it, actually. It is our job to sell him on, you know, what we're capable of and reaching the ultimate goal. because I know that that's what's most important to him. And, you know, how do we do that?

It's not a sales job, I'd say. It's more of, you know, what's the vision, what's the plan, and concrete steps that we're going to take to try to get the team to where he wants it to be. And we share that same common goal. That was actually from the press conference, not. Was that from the press conference? Yeah, that wasn't the one on our show.

But I'll get that one. Okay, yeah, we're fine. Now, today, Chris Johnson, from the Athletic, also followed up with the theory that the Leafs are on the clock. He was quoted as saying Austin Matthews is not yet sure if he will be in a position to return next season. It's kind of a tricky kind of quote because I'm not sure what be in a position means.

Like physically? I mean, I presume it's not physically, right? He's supposed to be at full health come the season. All right. Right. So we're told. Mentally, emotionally. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of, to me, all these guys, he's got a contract, he's a Toronto Maple Leaf. Like until he has shown no inclination to come out and say, I want to be traded, by all indications, he has ties with the men who have been hired here.

I think the implication is just the general one that superstars are making, which is I want to see that the team's getting better. I want to see that we have a chance that we're going on the right direction and all those things. And I don't think that's new. Like they're going to try to add good players this summer. Hopefully they get a top pick. Hopefully they can get aggressive.

Yeah. When I kind of hear stuff like this, and listen, I've broken my share of news over my career and I get a lot of it, you know, on how this kind of works sometimes. Yeah, yeah. And Chris Johnson is a guy I respect.

I've worked with him here. He's tied in. He's got sources for sure. My first thought is like, where is this coming from, right? And I don't know. I mean, I'm speculating. I'm guesstimating here. Yeah, it's a radio show.

My tendency would be that it would be someone. Put it in his year. From, yeah, from Austin's camp, someone close there. And then my second question, J.B, is like, what is the benefit of leaking something like this out? Who benefits? And I don't really have an answer to that. I don't know. To your point, he's locked in for two years.

Yeah. Okay. I don't know where the benefit is for Austin or for the Leafs or for the fans. Where is this coming from and why? Well, I've got two thoughts and people are like one and not like the other. The first is that he wants pressure on these guys that they need action. We've just undergone two, three years here with no action and a lot of talk, A lot of ideas, a lot of tire kicking, no action, wants action.

The other one is that is not good. That doesn't see a future here and, you know, start the soft release of so-and-so's unhappy and get the undercurrent bubbling a little bit. I don't know. Those are my two thoughts. Okay. Which thought you want to start with?

You tell me. Okay. Here's my first thought that I hope Austin is paid attention. to how the Leafs got into this situation. Is part of it him not playing good? No, that's not my first thought, actually. Okay. That's one of mine.

My first thought is that they've taken a number of cracks at trying to help you win a Stanley Cup. Right. And they were costly ones. And unfortunately, you know, whether you want to use a baseball term of going 0 for 3, or 0 for 4 or 0 for 5 or 9 or whatever the case is, but it didn't work.

And how is now this team going to get back into a position to your point, Austin, is if you want to put pressure on them and you want them to get better, you got to also be realistic on the cards that are being held right now on your new general manager or mats as a senior advisor. at Keith Pelley, the ownership. Like, how can they get you to the place where you're going to be happy in a really relatively short period of time?

And the answer is just calm your jets down a little bit. This may take a little while. Yeah. I think that's a realistic piece of this conversation that has to happen is, is Matthews willing to, I'm not saying wait five years in a rebuild, but are you willing to wait two? Are you willing to wait three? Like are you willing to be a part of,

hey, you know, we had to make a couple moves to acquire assets. We had to do a couple things to get to the point. Because I also think the idea of outright rebuilding when you don't have two, your next three first is not super appealing and not even a great time to try. So I don't know. I wonder if there is a world where, you know, they get a pick tonight and all of a sudden it's okay,

we're going to try to get aggressive. Maybe we'll flip that for a player. I don't know. I wonder how aggressive tonight makes them or not. And how that affects Matthews. Big lottery balls. Okay. The flip side of it is that to your point,

he's made up his mind. He wants out. Yeah. I mean, that's one of the possibilities. Which, quite frankly, would be really shocking to me. It would be. Yes. Yeah.

It would be. And I know there's probably things that he hasn't liked recently, right, including probably a very emotional situation in his career, unlike anything he's ever experienced with the Canada, Russia, and the White House and the USA. The USA thing had to have affected him. But I would hope that that wouldn't be like a driving scene. stake into get me out of here.

No. And, you know, you look how some guys have handled that once they decide to go. I think it would be, I'd be suboptimal for Austin. Like, it's not how this should play out. And I think the new regime at least deserves an opportunity to say, hey, here's the plan. We're going to lay one out. You know, we actually have a vision. Here's how we're going to execute it. And here's how, you know, we're going to get there.

that part of it is Hey, Jake is a pretty Convincing guy, is he not? Like I think he can help be a part of that sales pitch And I know he has a relationship with Austin prior to this I think that'll help him here And I expect Austin to be there on day one This upcoming season.

Yeah. It would really help though If he just didn't leave it open-ended as much as it is today. With Austin. With Austin. I do think that they need to do a couple things before he's going to say, yeah, I'm in.

Like if they do nothing and they come back with the same group, I could see him be like, yeah, I kind of thought we would be more aggressive. I don't see a scenario where it's like, okay, that's the move. I'm in. I don't see it coming. You just have to show change. You just can't come back with the same team. it's probably as simple as that isn't it no no i think so you think he needs to come out i don't know

i i think again i i don't know what's realistic for him but not only does he have to see change does he have to see himself off to a great start with a new winger that he thinks can help me score 50 and 60 goals again is it we have to be in the top three in the Atlantic division? Do we have to be able to show that we're competing right now? Is it just enough if I can score 50 goals and 60 goals? We're going to miss the playoffs, but that's okay now because I got my game back. You're going to acquire, right?

This is why we're meeting with them. What's important to you here? What's your timeline? We do have Chika from yesterday, but that was kind of the same. I don't know if you want to go. No, I'm fine. I'm good. I'm good.

I'm good. I just think it's, it's now kind of, this may turn into a bit of a storyline. And he's not, he was very vague in his exit meeting. And I don't know if we're going to get any more clarity between now and this summer or going into the fall. But does he have to give any? Well, he's under contract. I know. I know.

But you know this town and we've watched it with Vancouver. Yeah. If I'm PR related, I'm like, hey, could you just come out and say, hey, you're down for next year? Could we get that on the record? That would be really helpful. I think people would feel a little better. And this is where hopefully a guy like Matt's can come into and be that kind of buffer between Chica and Austin. And, you know, that's where you're hopefully really invested in mats to come in and work on that.

Yeah. That relationship. We're in the trust tree here. It's just you and me. Just me and you, man. We lost Sammy. I, you know, I kind of thought Matt's was going to be,

I don't know, more involved. Not that he's, like, I just, you know, I asked him lots of questions yesterday. I thought you asked a lot of Chica and I was like, all right, let's bring Matt's into this conversation. And Matt's was kind of like, yeah, you know, I'll be involved. I'll give my input where I think it can help

and I'll be a part of it. At no point was, did I feel, he was like, yeah, I'm a part of the business leadership team. I'm going to talk to the sponsors and whatever. Or yes, I'm going to be in the exes, knows we're going to work on the penalty kill. You know, like, he's just kind of like, I'm at Matt's.

I'm here. I'm going to, what do you want to know? I'll give you my opinion, you know? Like, I don't think he has a designed checklist of roles so much. Not yet. Right. Not yet. So like, Chek has to do.

You wanted him right away. Well, you say right away. They spent three weeks negotiating a contract. I presume they have conversations. I know, but like, I'm going to make sure their hours are right on the jet. You get a lot of things to work on. I know, I know. And I'm kidding.

I don't know anything about it yet. And I am too, though, that like it just is still currently undefined. Yeah. And they're talking about collaboration and that can be effective. Have you played with a lot of Swedes over your career? I have. And I know exactly what you're going to say next. That is the exact level of sort of aloof.

Like, yeah, it'll be fine. The loof might not be the right word. Times guarded. Yeah. And they keep cards close. Yeah. And yeah, he's not going to give you a ton. You're right.

He's not going to. And you've got to understand too, probably in what transpired in those three weeks that you just mentioned is where's my role? Where are my strengths? How much do I want of a responsibility? Do I want to be responsible for a team underneath me? do I want people having to answer to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we know what the answer was.

No, or not no, but not yet. Right. And I think he bit off as much as he could chew. A very mature amount. He didn't say, give me the whole Thanksgiving turkey. Totally. Totally. And I don't know where this could end up for him,

but it might just be enough. But I do believe, like Chica was asked, like what I think Elliot has. him like if what if Matt's doesn't want to do a deal that you want to do and Chike said then we won't do it you know so I think there is that level of like respect but I don't even know if if Matt's would say I don't want to do it because then you'd have to be you'd have to be awfully sure about yourself to say yes do it or no don't do it and I don't know whether he'll feel like in two or three weeks, he'll be feeling strong enough or educated enough to definitively say yes or no either.

Yeah. So that's, to me, that's, if Matt's in a comfortable position to say, okay, I've been working here for three months, I've watched that guy for two months, don't make that trade, then it holds a lot more stock. and Matt's would be a lot more comfortable sharing that with John, but he ain't throwing out yes or no until he's sure about it. Well, what's crazy about that is that you got the captain who is implying, as we believe it, we don't know,

but implying that he wants things to happen, right? Like we want to see action here. So Matt's, whether he knows it or not, is probably going to be faced with the conversation between now and trade deadline that looks like what we're talking about. Like, hey, I want to move. We all want what you want, Austin to bring a championship here

and to feel great and be proud. Like we're on the same page. Everyone is striving in that direction. But Matt can also look at him and say, be a pro about this. You got two years left. No one's saying that you've got to tip all your secrets out on your intentions.

But we got some time here. Have a great summer. Work your ass off. And come ready to lead this team. And that could be the gist of the whole conversation. Totally. No more, no less. And we're not looking for a huge long-term commitment out of you.

We just need to know that we're on the same page here. Yeah. And even if we're not, just be a pro. Yeah, I think that's fine. And I think Matthews also bear some responsibility to come back and have a better year, right? Get above a point per game again and shoot it in the net a bunch. And those are parts of the things that can turn this around. The coach thing will be interesting.

The other thing, too, is, you know, and we talked about this the other day that star players, they get preferential treatment when it comes to maybe some feedback, whatever that means to whatever organization. And there's a sense that, you know, certain guys want certain things. But, you know, for Austin, too, he's got to hold himself accountable. Two off seasons. Yes, injuries played a part. But he's got to be better. Yeah. He's got to be better.

And I hope somebody has a conversation with him on that part too. You can sit there and checklist all you want. But here's what we want out of you. You know, I think the best players, the Crosby's thing for a year was every summer, he'd come back with a new trick in the arsenal. I worked on my back end this summer. I tried to get better at face-offs this summer. Try to build something onto your game.

And yeah, I hope the Leafs are able to see that from them. You know, Cowan's having a nice little run in the American League. Nyes has a better year at some point. Again, they're talking about the defense and breaking pucks out and making moves there. In a perfect... In a perfect world tonight, you got your top five picks between Mahaltra and McKenna

are three stud defensemen, maybe four. You almost want to keep your pick over getting the number one over and getting a winger. Get one guy that could kind of step in and be okay and hold his own on defense. Yeah, free player. Sign raddish. Also do you guys better. Two guys on the blue line.

And how much better will leave fans feel going into September? Totally. You have a healthier team. There's, well, that's the latent upside he's talking about. Like, it's not that far away from being okay. Bingo bangle ball. Help tonight. Come on, baby.

All right. We'll take a quick break. When we return, Stelectricity, Toronto Maple Leaf Analyst for SportsF590, the fan, former general manager. or the Leifes. Gord Stelick will drop in. Steve Aliquette at the top of the hour

and a full search for our boy Sammy when we return to the real Kippern-Born show. Diving deep into Leaps, Raptors, Jays, and NFL. The Jady Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. Nick Kippreos, Justin Boren,

and back with a mic that was, works, our very own Sammy McKee. What up, boys? Oh, hey, there he is. You didn't accidentally on purpose unplug your own microphone, did you? No, I didn't.

I didn't. I was having a tough time listening to you guys. And I just left, so. I was having a tough time. I was having a tough time. But we're good. You're back. We probably have Gord, don't we? We have our good buddy Gort Stelik on board.

Once again, let's welcome him in. The wonderful, the popular, Gort Stelich. How are you, my friend? So Sammy's promo for the show is, I had a hard time listening, so I left. He's not part of your show. That's your lighter.

Leone believes in the playoffs, and this is the promo to listen to the show. I should clarify why, I was just thinking that that came across. bad. I had a hard time listening and not being able to weigh in so I left. There you go. That's what I meant. And now you say that, Gordo, you're right. It did sound bad. Sorry. Sorry, everybody.

All right, Gordon. You have your own press conference. So, Gord, like, when it comes to the history of the Toronto Maple Leafs, I mean, outside of a few people in their like 90s, you're as good as anybody for the history and what we've all been through

from fans, from little kids, to growing up. Like, where do you rank this press conference in terms of, you know, how people are feeling today as a lead fan moving forward compared to others that you've, you've covered? And just the pressure alone on probably Keith Pelley or John Chica or even Matt Sundin for that moment to come in and move the needle right now. Yeah, you know, it's an interesting, like I think Kippy and Justin, it's like there's

been a process. So yeah, it's a very different kind of pressure. That was the angriest press conference I ever saw. Like that was, I don't know, it was hard to explain. But I think what's happened and what they've got to realize, I think on the Maple East side is there's really kind of a disconnect that in a year, Keith Pelley came a couple years ago and said, I'm going to get you the finish line. I heard it loud and clear. Leaf Nation wants to win. They're fed up, whatever. We're going to deliver it. And his first year couldn't go any better. Couldn't go any better for Brad Trill Living. That was the second year and Craig Barubi's first year.

Then it all falls apart. And now you're getting Matthew Kachuk and Brad Marchand and say, oh, who wouldn't, who'd want to play here? Who'd want to play here? Mitch Marner's camp. Who wants to, like, we're at fault. The Toronto Maple Leaf fans are at fault. Toronto Blue Jays love it here.

They love, you know, the fans love them. They love the fans. They don't talk about no state taxes. And then you get Brad Trillivings exit, and all of a sudden the organization's discombodity. Our vertical isn't right. Our horizontal isn't right. Kippie, you heard of my dad,

Ernie, the TV repair man. He could fix that stuff in the old day. Just with a whack on the side. Just with the whack on the side of the set. So they get all that. And now you're talking corporate ease all the time. And all they want you do is shoot the breeze with them. Talk some hockey talk, whatever it may be.

So you've had two press conferences, you know, big on corporate talk. And then yesterday, John Chike is an interesting hire. I wish him all the luck in the world. okay. Steve Simmons said, you know, that was an interesting shot. He talked 19 out of 20 people. I don't quite have the same numbers, but I think he could always find somebody to say something about somebody. There's no, so what, and I think what they missed yesterday is they did it a little better when they, like Elliot's interview was good when they broke on one-on-ones. I always found Lee fans watching yesterday. You get asked a tough question, it gives you a chance to give a great answer, okay?

He didn't give a great answer about what happened in Arizona. Okay, he didn't give it. You just said there, you know, give the answer. Like Sheldon Keith did when he took over, and he talked about the whole David Frost thing, put it to rest, right? And the other, Austin Matthews, so what if you know his parents?

Whatever, like give us the skinny. So we read about it today that apparently Austin, not too many people's surprise, is maybe not all that keen about coming back. So you're never going to lose the passion, but there's a disconnect. And they really feel disconnected. they feel excluded.

And I mentioned on the morning show this morning, okay? It's not about Carlton the Bear shooting T-shirts and cannons in the crowd. It's about understanding your fan base about they understand hockey. They know the coverage bear. They know there's been a screw up. This is all happened in about a year. And all they do is show up and pay high prices for tickets. And they feel like, you know, that they're like basically they're getting blamed.

Nobody wants to play here. And it's their fault. And it ain't their fault. No, certainly no fault of face. fans, you know, the, the night tonight has the chance to change the tone. I think a lot of people, you know, talking about how, you know, how we got here. And the initial press conference focused on a lot of that stuff. But like, okay, it's happened now.

These are the guys who are running the ship. Tonight's the draft lottery. Do you think that it is that winning, keeping this pick tonight has a massive impact on their direction? We were talking about it in the first half hour and we kind of share the vibe. that you win tonight. Like it feels like it's different than okay, you might have to do a slower thing if you don't keep your pick this year.

Okay, I look at it a little bit differently. And, okay, what do you call it? Calangelo won the lottery, and they got Andrea Barney, right? How do that have apples? How do that work out, right, for the Raptors? So, okay, the one positive, if you do get the number one or two picked today,

I got it. That's good. Okay, that is a positive. And what a great first day on the job. Failing that, almost think you're better to go down two spots, let Boston play, take the seventh overall pick, because you cannot, unless you had the one or two pick this year, have what happened way back when the possibility of the Eric Lindross pick going to the New Jersey Devils and

the Tom Kerber's trade. It ended up being the Scott Niedermeyer that went. Like, unless you bounce back, and if you bounce back, and again, that's up to everybody there, maybe they do that. And all of a sudden, you're in the playoffs again, and you're not worrying about that pick. But if you have a season like you had this year, the Paul and the odor of that possible Macklin-Selda Breedy, Connor Bedard, Austin Matthews pick, going to the Boston Bruins, I'm telling you, it'll be there all the time. So I'm just saying, okay, if you don't move up, I'd rather go number seven, go down two spots, pay the Piper, and pay the Piper next year, and whatever.

I think there's a little, say you kept the fifth pick, I think it's a false prize. I think it's a false way of looking things. You know, it's like your son gets arrested for something and the positive there's more food at the dinner table, right? I mean, really, come on. You know, it's, I don't know where I came up with that analogy, by the way, but anyway,

that's, that's how I look at it. I'm not as excited. I'm not doing cartwheels about it like everybody else's. Where number five? Wow, we did it. What a great move. No. I think I think, Gord, there's an argument for both of you guys on what's good about getting the pick tonight.

and what inevitably as you're talking about is, bad news with what follows if you pick, right? But it may just come down to Leaf Nation looking at John and Matt's going, you're either good luck for us tonight or your bad luck for us tonight. Well, okay, it would be, don't get me wrong, whether they were the GMs or not. It is a positive, in my opinion, winning the lottery is, always a positive. So in the next year, if Boston wins the lottery with your pick, at least you

won it this year. I'm just saying quite often, take a look, the margin between a number one overall pick and a number five overall pick is rather dramatic. And if that came into play. Now, the other upside Kippy and Justin is, okay, the challenge is make sure what we thought this year happens next year, that it does not in the lottery be a chance to be the number one number two overall pick. And I remain an optimist about this team can bounce back. You cannot have a year as deplorable as this year went. You can't.

And good on the new guys. It's their chance to go out. They got the jobs, whatever people think about some of them or all of them. They got the jobs and they got a chance to go out and do some positives. And actually, in John Chikas case, the bar is so low that minimal positives initially will be embraced. Matt Sundance knows about negatives. He came here with a negative.

He was traded for one. Wendell Clark. He had, there was negative about that. It was a great trade. Great trade for the least. He left with negative. He was one of the Muskoka Five. It got leaked that he wouldn't waive his no trade. He had a bit of a disconnect from the franchise. In between, he was a hockey

Hall of Fame player and a great consummate captain on and off the ice. So he understands all about the white noise and all that other stuff that happens here in Toronto. And they're going to have to understand that's the reality here. And you've got to try to, try to succeed and do your best with that kind of environment.

Because it's a great environment. It's the number one hockey market in the world, okay? And that's always got to be put in place, and that's always a fortunate thing. Gord, before we let you go, just your thoughts on the noise around Austin Matthews, where you think it's coming from, ultimately. How do you see this thing playing out towards training camp?

Well, I mean, hey, Connor McDavid fired Asolvo in Edmonton, so it's not just Canadian players or Americans, American players want to go back to the states. I think the Quinn Hughes model has kind of shown that certain players have said, I signed up for a certain thing. And Austin Matthews has extended here twice, and I've never questioned his commitment to Toronto.

The Olympic thing was weird timing, weird, weird political stuff going on. I don't know. And also, you know, Leaf fans didn't sign up for this. And Austin Matthews did not sign up for this. So you got to meet it head on, and he may look about Quinn Hughes did.

And so I felt sure, I felt, I felt very good before this season. There's a chance Austin Matthews would end his career here and be the greatest leaf ever statistically. And now not so sure like everybody else, but let's let's find out what it gives. It's unfortunate. He and Mitch Martyr and William Nealander gave us, what, nine years of phenomenal regular season blips of a little bit minimal playoff success. But, you know, it seems like that ship has sailed and maybe Austin Matthews is catching the next ship. Gord bringing it

every time you're on our show, man. Thanks for doing this. Oh, appreciate it. Passion, that's what they got. The passion that unites us. That's what Sammy's got to get for the show. Right, real kipper and board, the passion that unites us all.

I love it. Thanks, Gordon. He does a great job on SportsF590. The fan. Also has his own show. Gordo. Channel 91, I think. Serious?

Bringing the heat. He's up at. I'm dead serious. He's up at 4. I'm at 4 a.m. every morning doing a show. There's a lot of words. Sammy, we didn't get a lot of you in the first block. Perfect.

I think that's what everybody feels. They don't want to hear me anyway. What do you want? What do you think? Yeah, your overall thoughts on... God, they need to win a draft pick tonight, boys. How important is this for you? Oh, and leave nation.

Before you go, Amato tweeted, that's our own Michael Amato. If you want the Kna or the Leafs to keep their pick, you are rooting for. Vancouver, Chicago, New York, Calgary, Toronto, or Washington to win the lottery. of those six teams has to win the lottery for them to keep their pick. I just... That's good odds.

Yeah, I don't know. It's 42.58. I mean, it's pretty... Yeah. I mean, it's math. It's up good. Yeah, it's... There's a much better chance of them losing it than keeping it.

I just think that the way everything's gone and the press conference yesterday and the backlash online leading up to this and everything that's happened, just winning even the fifth overall pick. And I know Gordo disagrees and he's talking about Andrea Marniani, which is fair. I understand that.

But just the sort of sense of... The top five players will start in the NHL next year. All five. Yes. Yeah. And what transpires after that

after 10 games or remains to be seen on... Do we know who's going for the Leafs? Is Sunday going to be there? You don't name those guys and... You don't? You don't name them and not show up.

Yeah. He's got to go. No, Chike has got it. Both of them. Okay, well, both of them got to go. I just, you mentioned it off the top of the show. One of the sort of famous pictures of the last era is the picture of Brandon Shanahan holding that leaf, right? When in 2016 or 2015, they won the draft lottery to get first overall.

And it's just what that represented just such a huge part of this fan base in terms of hope. Here we go. And listen, it led to absolutely Zilch. Well, it's not silch, though. I mean, it was years of... Great. Of like, maybe we'll win and we didn't. That's what it led to.

But it was a lot of fun. Sure, it was great. And really bad at times, too. And, you know, there's... Heartbreaking. Not bad, just heartbreaking. Okay. Better to have loved and lost.

Tomato tomato. Tomato, too, have loved it all. Tomato, brother. Whatever you want to say it. But, like, you know, I read that article about, you know, potentially him leaving and all this stuff. What it would do for this sort of next, whatever era is going to be,

to have the picture of Sundeen and Chica holding the first overall or the third overall, whatever it is. I can't tell you how, and I'm not, I'm playing hockey tonight. I forget what time. This is the equivalent of your dark basement game. I'm not going to put it up in. They won't watch it. I'm going to go out on the ice.

I'm going to play an incredibly marginal game of hockey. And you're going to let some random referee tell you the results. You're Sammy McKee. No, that's fine. He can tell them on one of the most popular hockey podcast ever. And you're going to hear major news from a timekeeper. One of the old boy at Cheswood Arena. Loves the show.

So, no, I tell you, I'm playing at York. We'll see. Oh, York. Okay. Yeah, I just, this is an equivalent to when I would walk the dog for the ninth inning of the World Series games that were in L.A. And I wouldn't watch. No, no, dart. I just don't even want to, I just want to look at my phone and say they got her or they didn't.

I don't want to live through them. Oh, we're picking out the ball. I watched the Schaefer one back. It's pretty fast. So what time is my process? 745. 745? You'll get the news then well before that.

Like, isn't it like a big long-drawn-up process? 7-30? By 7.30? Crap. So maybe I'll watch you in the bar. Take your warm up with a dart. I want to see that. I want to hear about that.

That would be unbelievable. Gibbon. Just a dangling out of the lips. I haven't smoked a dart since the World Series. So, yeah. Yeah. Maybe if they, yeah. The most painful part of the process is that waiting for it,

they count down 30 seconds. Okay, the next ball. 30 seconds on the clock. Yeah, I don't want to do that. And Betman and Daly and Bouchagross just got to stand there for 30 seconds and it feels like 100 years. Yeah, but that's part of the drama.

And Bucci has a good job trying to, you know, keep the metaphorical balls in the air and give you the stakes and all that. They could just use it. Buck moving young defensemen. That seems to be the consensus. I mean, Chike is a Mr. Mover. He's a trader.

He loves to do this stuff. If they get the first overall pick, trade it back for extra assets and try to get to the third spot and take chase rate. I know it's a risk, but if they can add another second round pick, another first off pick, a real player.

That's what I mean. If you get the first overall pick, try to move back into the other spots for an extra asset and take the defense when you need. Everyone is so nervous about the fact that the best forward in the draft is like a 5-11 ringer. You're looking at one. And he probably would haunt you,

but if you're talking about risks early. There's still talk about Mahaltra being like... Oh, they love it. People love them. Number one. Books love... Yes. Boots loves him. Yeah.

Can you imagine if the Leafs got him at five? Like if you miss on a 6-3, 220-pound defenseman, they're usually like, oh, it's Aaron Neckbladder. It's like good Branson or something. You know, it's like, it's okay. You miss on a small winger and it's like, oh. It's out of dinner dag. Yeah.

It's famous and it's the least. So we'll see. Okay. To get first overall, trade it back. How's that for a take? Our thanks to trade it. Our thanks to Gord Stelick and Sammy McKee's Mike. for showing up.

You guys had an awesome first segment. I loved it. Loved it. Great show. All right. Tuesday, you know what that I mean? Steve Aliquette, analyst with the New York Rangers, CEO, ClearSight Analytics, and grill time.

Wow. Nothing better. Grill marks. Oh, grill. Oh, okay. That's my buddy Andy. I think he's got a grill time. I go there and buy stakes.

Sounds good. All right. Don't go away. I think you just got a few free ones. We'll be back.