Real Kyper & Bourne - What's the Importance of 'Heavy' Players in the NHL?

Episode Date: October 30, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee open the second hour by bringing on Sportsnet's Eric Francis following the Flames' 5-2 defeat at the hands of the Oilers in the Heritage Classic (3:34). Is the season on the brink in Calgary just a few weeks in? Plus, they debate the response from the Flames after Evander Kane's great night for the Oilers - do more teams need 'heavy' players to have the ability to send a different message? Plus, they chat about the Canucks playing hard for Rick Tocchet, whether or not the Sharks should continue stripping it down (or go in the opposite direction), Cale Makar taking a massive hit, the retirement of Jumbo Joe Thornton, and the safety of the game in the wake of Adam Johnson's tragic passing. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

We are Real Kipper and Born, the National Hour, live on Sportsnet and Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver and Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brando, Frank the Tank. I don't know what Frank does. We still got Frank the Tank. We still got Frank the Tank. Yeah, I thought Jen returned today, but it's Frank. I just scratched out. This hour, Real Kipper and Born brought to you by bet 365 the oilers and a four game losing streak with a 5-2 win over the flames and the heritage classic we've got eric francis senior

columnist analyst with sportsnet to join us in a few minutes to discuss the big event which i don't know what they counted it at was that was last night the 37th or the 38th i think we've had 37 going in is that what the total is of outdoor games that's a lot of outdoor games oh yeah we're almost at a covet length season of outdoor games and they are 38 for 38 on finding a way to get through these games. You've got to think at some point it's going to get rained out. It's going to get. Was it Tahoe? The one that was played at like 8 or 9 at night or something?

No, but they played it at night. Like at midnight. Yeah. Remember? I can't remember. There were no fans anywhere. The next day it was the same night. Yeah, they played it.

Oh, that's right. Because they started, well, they went out for warm-up, and guys were sinking into the ice. There was like rots and yeah, yeah. The sun. The sun. The sun was too hot on a good portion of it. They didn't account for the sun.

But that's the closest. What is this? Oh, my God. Where's Dan Craig? Did you factor this in? Okay, thoughts. Still doing it for you or is this just like it's great for the community it's great for the clubs go out there with your new i liked it fourth uniforms try to sell as many as you can liked it i thought the jerseys look great people were all over me because i praised the

leather colored pants and gloves which i thought looked great for the oilers jerseys all around was that mustard what was that i was a nice look you didn't like that i don't know a little shimmery they're a little too shimmery yeah they could look a little more matte yeah yeah yeah and the flyover a little sunshine nice and cold and nickelback out there rocking it out. Chad Kruger with the short hair. I'm not used to it. 55,000 people. Yeah. Watching Connor McDavid, just like we said, from the moment he got hurt,

he'd be out there lighting it up, and he was electric. I'm not budging. He shouldn't have played that game. I'm not budging. I'm not budging. What do you think he looked like? Because I thought he didn't look nearly himself. Oh, what?

He's the best player. He was the most dynamic person. No. Guys, he was flying. He didn't look the same. He was okay. He wasn't Connor at his best. You guys have some insane standards. He looked great.

Maybe not at his best, but it's like he played a good hockey game. Yeah. For me. For you. Oh, God. For me. For you. For me. I don't need a witch's potion to play like that. For 99% of the league, he played a good game. But not for Connor.

Not for Connor. All right. Let's talk to someone who was there. Okay. We've got Eric Francis, as we mentioned earlier, who took it all in. And was it 37 or 38. Can you confirm for me? How many have we done?

And did this one still feel like the one that we had 20 years ago, Eric Francis? Yeah. A whole lot warmer, obviously, but this is number 30, 38. Like it's amazing.

And interesting stat. The home team is one 19 times. The away team has won 19 times there you go so you can hang your hat on that fun fact just uh go ahead it's really not home field advantage it just all of it feels so foreign right it all feels so awayish you know because it's not your real stadium so i think that's why you know it's a coin flip on whether the home team is going to win. Did it feel like a split in the crowd between the Calgary Flame uniforms

and the Euler ones or jerseys? No, I'd say it's about an 80-20. Like, you know, the Flames fans were well-represented, no question about it. But, you know, to suggest that half the crowd would come from Calgary three hours away, that's a little much. But well represented. The hotels were rammed.

Nothing was cheap. The merch wasn't cheap. The hotels weren't cheap. The city really made a way like bandits. So did the league. But you know what? It's a great celebration. I always say this about the outdoor games.

I don't know what you guys think. But if it's not in your city i get that you're not interested unless it's snowing or it's lake tahoe like this there's not a whole lot of appeal we've seen it and done it but when it's in your city or when you're there live it's something you never forget and it's pretty magical and the fact that they sold it out really surprised me and impressed me it was a win for everyone involved yeah i mean hey they can charge 100 bucks for those you know faux chains get that hockey related revenue up it's good for everyone good for the league eric i support it um you know looking at that game i guess we'll get the the flames angle uh your sort of takeaway from a game

does it feel like another loss or is that game sort of separate event from the rest of the season how are the flames feeling after that outdoor game uh you know the whole weekend guys you know like you just get the whole family's there the parents are coming in from all corners of the globe uh you know you're skating with the family like it's there's a real distraction uh to these games and that was probably a good thing for both teams who really needed a distraction from how horrible things have gone so far this year. But at the end of the game,

I thought Michael Backlund said it best. Somebody's going to wake up Monday morning feeling pretty good about themselves. He didn't mention how crappy the other team are going to wake up feeling on Monday. But the reality is it's five losses in a row for the Flames. And that's, you know, that's tough. Like it's, it's, we always used to describe the feeling in Calgary

under Daryl Sutter as heavy. The room was heavy because there was just a lot of tension and you're not, weren't allowed to smile and have fun, all this stuff. But the heaviness is completely different now. The pressure to turn this thing around quickly is mounting tremendously so we heard from zadorov who was very um blunt when it came to what he thought about the team and just in terms of picking up that vibe after this weekend, it's still very much there.

Do we have that clip, Sam, by any chance? But you know the one I'm talking about where he's basically calling out probably some of even the stars with individual efforts and not coming together as a team. Is there a sense that this outdoor game alleviated some of that? Or no, it's picking up where it left off today? No, it alleviated it for a couple days. Like I said, when they got there, they did about six wardrobe changes.

They got merch to last a lifetime. There were all sorts of appearances and family fun times and skates and dinners. But now that's gone every all the families are leaving today if they don't live in town uh you know the parents everything now the grim reality today's a day off for the flames uh and and the grim reality is tomorrow they return to the dome with that same heavy cloud hanging over them like oh my god our season could be over before it really even begins like

that's we saw this with what vancouver was it last year the year before where their start was so bad they were out of it by the time we're at mid-november the whole thanksgiving thing the calgary flames are very very seriously in jeopardy of of ruining their whole season because of the start they've had so far. And it's not just because they're losing. They're not even really in these games. They've been outscored 20 to six in their last five games. And they have three even strength goals over the last five games. Like they can't find lines that work.

They can't find someone who can help Huberto. They can't find someone who can help Kadri. So they're putting them together on a line well that's not helping either one of them it's just a shambles they've tried every line combination there is and they can find no sign of chemistry offensively so you know they're probably having the moments of internal concern when you're on a bad team and i've been on a few where you go wait maybe this isn't bad luck. Maybe we're not good enough.

Maybe we don't have the horses in there. I personally, and Eric, I don't know if you've followed my thoughts in the Flames for years. I think this is a good team. I like the roster. I think their D is good. They got a good goalie. They got players.

Are we at the point where I'm just wrong and this roster needs new personnel to be better, or is it still, this group can find it? You know, yeah, I know, Borny, I'm the same way on paper. And I was talking to Mark Spector the other day, you know, you're asking people from outside the city. Are we crazy? Like we really feel like, you know, their defensive core is one of the better ones in the league.

I would say i really believe that their goaltending has returned to form this year so far um you know but offensively that's you know what guys like it all boils down to the two big guns and every team in the league you know you got your two highest paid guys and if they're if they're not producing at all and i'm not just talking about uh they're a little offadri got his first goal of the year the other day. Huberto hasn't had a point in six games. Like, it's pretty desperate. These guys are playing like fourth-line players right now, quite frankly.

And when your top-line players are playing like fourth-liners, I don't care how good or deep your roster is, if you can't score goals, you're not going to win in this league We're talking to Eric Francis, senior columnist and analyst with Sportsnet, sportsnet.ca of course, Eric I gotta ask you

certainly a 180 in the organization with Brad Tree Living leaving you go out, they sign Craig Conroy to take it over the decision to go with Ryan Huska uh who again comes in with a great uh resume but has never dealt with underperforming players making seven or ten and a half million dollars, you know, how big of a test is this for Ryan and Craig now

to send a vibe on what's expected? Or is this going to just be one of those quiet transitions to let's dump a few of these guys and get some assets and retool or rebuild without really looking like it? Is this, you mentioned this a little earlier, but like that fork in the road, is it coming sooner than later? Well, if they keep losing, then the fork is coming a lot sooner than later.

Yes. I mean, I do believe that all this talk of Noah Hannafin being imminently signed has come to a screeching halt. I do not think that they're going to be signing him anytime soon, and I definitely don't think they're going to be signing Elias Lindholm anytime soon. I very much think this is a wait-and-see approach in terms of those two guys and or as this team proceeds into the future.

Look, if they continue these losing ways over the next, you know, up to the 20-game mark and they're almost out of the race at that point in time, then every move you make, personnel-wise, is with an eye on the long-term future. And that means, you know, make it some really tough decisions. So, yeah, the fork in the road could be here as early as a couple weeks from now, no question about it. And management is very much aware that, holy cow, we may have to do something drastically different

than the way we thought we were going to have to do things this year. You mentioned Jonathan Huberto, and there's no question it was a ton of weight on his shoulders. He underperformed. He knew it. Everybody knew it. Is there a sense that a lot of that can creep back up in his face this early in the season, or does there just seem to be like a buffer zone here with, with again, Conroy and, and Huska at the helm? Can they buy him time is my question to you to turn it around?

Well, I think so. I mean, it is all up to him, right? I mean, you can buy time, you know, whatever that kind of means with the GM and or the coach. But, you know, he came in here with a new attitude this year. He obviously admitted last year was nowhere near the way he thinks he can play. And his first three or four games this year, he was okay. I think he had a point a game. But it wasn't still that impactful player that people in Calgary

have been waiting to see since they acquired him. And since then, you know, there have been no points and no impact. There's no mojo. He claims that he's still keeping the faith and he's still got the swagger that he claims he got back in the summer, but he can't possibly have a swagger right now. And he's fighting the same feelings that he had last year, which is I can't figure out why I can't get going to the same tune

that I did in Florida for the past handful of years. So it's an unbelievable quandary for the player and for management. I mean, I can't imagine. I know Craig Conroy's not sleeping well at night. I'm sure Ryan Huska's not sleeping well at night. And Jonathan Huberto's definitely not sleeping well at night. Now, I don't know about Conri because when we talked to him, it sure seems like he's just taking this all in stride and kind of shrugs

off and says with a couple of bounces, he'd be back on track. It doesn't seem like he's taking it as hard as the other guys, but maybe I'm just reading him wrong. Eric. So, you know, you were there to watch that game in person, the flames lose to the Edmonton Oilers, another team there in the province who had been struggling finally got a win what was your impression or what have your impressions been of the other team in alberta there well it's shocking to all of us that they're in the situation they're at like i don't think anyone's you know totally shocked the flames are

like this i mean i guess it's a little surprising for sure but but the oilers you know nobody saw this coming the expectation was you know cup final or bust um they returned in my opinion they looked a lot like the team that we expected them to look like you know on sunday now everything was different on sunday with everything from the crowd to the atmosphere to the feeling but on the ice it seemed like it was a very similar team to the one that we expected all year long. I have very little doubt that they'll use that win yesterday to springboard their season. I really do.

And they've got Conor McDavid back. And I agree with you guys. I don't think he looked, you know, just like he always has. But the fact that he's back is such good news. And the fact that they got a win is a huge relief in that room. So they'll be just fine. I don't think anyone around here is really that worried about the Oilers. Is last night's performance by Skinner enough to say that he's going to be

the guy moving forward for the Oilers? I think that's going to be a work in progress guys I you know I think that he's the guy Campbell had a great camp and that was very exciting for the organization to think oh man what a bonus to get that guy back and we can have an option in our net mining but I still think he'll be the 1B guy out the rest of the year I think they they know they have a lot more faith in Skinner than Campbell and whilebell can still do it in flashes uh they think skinner can do it with more consistency so i think it's definitely 1a with skinner at the top of that list all right last one for me eric i just want to get your thoughts on before you came on we talked about well it was the leafs hour so

we're talking about potential d-man eventually and it was like what about zadorov he's a ufa at the end of this year he's a big guy he scored a lot last year he seems like an interesting guy like he's pretty outspoken in the media tell us about zadoroff his season this year and kind of what his value is to to that team in the league you know when he came here a couple years ago he'd come off a season in chicago where he was you know in their third pairing and i think his career i'm not gonna say was hanging in the balance but he hadn't really gotten the group you know a grasp of a role anywhere and daryl sutter uh with the help of ryan huska the defensive coach were instrumental in like teaching him structure and and being a good solid defenseman him and eric branson were a phenomenal pairing two years ago uh last year he was pretty good again

this year he you know i think he'd be top four on any team in the national hockey league pretty much and Fred Branson were a phenomenal pairing two years ago. Last year, he was pretty good again. This year, I think he'd be top four on any team in the National Hockey League, pretty much. Here, he kind of gets bumped down to number five. But either way, he had 14 goals last year, quietly. That's pretty impressive. He is very outspoken. That can rub teammates the wrong way.

And I know the guy who brought him to Calgary is Brad Trulia. I'm sure he'd be very interested in nikita zadorov moving forward there's no doubt in my mind that if he's not signed you know in a timely fashion that a lot of people will be asking about that guy because there's there's a great guy to add for a playoff run big strong guy who really cares and can also jump up in the play offensively so keep an eye on that but he's he's made it pretty clear he really really likes it here and he really, really likes it here, and he really, really wants to sign here. And given the fact that, in my opinion,

Hannafin will be gone at some point soon, I think that they're going to want to keep a guy like Zdorov for a lot less money than they'd have to pay Hannafin. And so I'm not sure he's going to be out on the open market, but you never know. This thing could be flipped on its head real soon in Calgary. Still time for the Flames to dig themselves out of this early hole, but

a sense of urgency got a lot quicker with the loss last night in the outdoor game. Hey, Eric, really appreciate your time, man. Thanks for doing this. Cheers, boys. You take care. Thanks, Eric. Eric Francis, senior columnist, analyst with Sportsnet.ca.

Yeah, I think for the Oilers, I get that you want to say all the right things. It felt like us. That's way better. But they played a very bad hockey club last night. I agree. I think Calgary's just – They were bad last night. I agree. I think Calgary's just... They were bad last night. They got nothing out of them.

And I don't know whether it was a scrum halfway through where we heard Craig Simpson talk about, oh, there's the Battle of Alberta that we've been kind of waiting for for like 25 minutes. Is that your Simmer impression? Hey, the highlight of that game is a mic'd up Evander Kane going, not just what are you going to do about it, just, what are you going to do about it?

What are any of you going to do about it? Just look at the whole team. What are any of you going to do about it? Everyone turn around. Yeah. None of you? He ain't a bluffer. No.

He fought three games in a row before that. Yeah. And he was really good. Actually, here's a question. Do you think the Flames miss Milan Lucic? Would it help them to have a guy to say, hey, Evander? They miss a type of player like that. So while we were talking to Eric,

I was curious because the size of Zdorov is massive. How many guys in the league do you think are 240 pounds or more in the NHL? Offhand, I'd probably say under half a dozen i was gonna say 15 it's seven players are 240 and bigger and there are 26 players playing at over 230 pounds heaviest guys in the league you want to take a guess at all or give me a couple of names uh where's reeves at here? 240. Oh, geez. How far down am I going for Ole Miss? Reeves. Here he is. 226 he's listed at.

37th heaviest guy. Not a chance. Myers? In your bra. Myers? Myers. Let me see. Myers because he's tall.

He's a lot of person. Yeah. I don't see him anywhere in here. Okay. I guess he's skinny. Give us a list. All right. Top.

Number one, Jamie Oleksiak. Tips and scales at almost 260. Oh, my. 257. He's a mutant. Okay. I guess he's skinny. Give us a list. All right. Top, top, number one, Jamie Oleksiak tips the scales at almost 260. Oh my God. 257. He's a mutant. Yeah. Zdorov is 248.

Number three in the league, Victor Hedman, 246. 246. 246 for Hedman? 6'6". He skates like a guy who's 5'10",

180. And then Arbor Jack guy is also 240. Nick Hague's 240. Zach McEwen's 240. There's a few guys. I don't want to get hit by Jack guy. Ovi's 238. Lucic is also 240. Nick Hague's 240. Zach McEwen's 240. There's a few guys. I don't want to get hit by Jack Guy. Ovi's 238.

Lucic is 238. Maroon's 234. Yeah. Maybe more. Yeah. Anyway. Jack Guy is terrifying. Jack Guy's at least.

Toppiest guy in the league. But I watched Edmonton last night, and they still don't look like a team that can compete for the Stanley Cup for me anyways. Not yet. No. they still don't look like a team that can compete for the Stanley Cup for me anyways not yet and I think they they need help for sure on the back end and I don't know whether or not they overestimated uh Evan Bouchard and we saw like what the good about him is last night shooting the puck yes he can shoot the puck yeah Yeah, we got to shoot it very well. Play both ways. When he's not shooting the puck,

is he just going to be this guy that forever at times can be a liability? You know, they still have, obviously, two elite difference makers there in Edmonton. And that's so I'm not saying they're not a contender, but it's really tough to look at Nurse, CeCe, Broberg, Bouchard, Kulak, and then think in their division

is this Vegas team that's Petrangelo, Theodore, Haig, White Cloud, like a really, you know, the best D in the league,

really. So it's tough to see in a series Vegas losing. Derek Ryan's assist on Evander Kane's empty netter was the first point

the Oilers have gotten from their bottom sixes here. This year? Yeah. And that's assist on Evander Kane's empty netter was the first point the Oilers have gotten from their bottom six this year. Yeah. This year? Yeah. And that's a huge concern. I mean, yeah. We've been on the bottom six in Toronto every day.

Three weeks into the season. I'd say it's a concern. November tomorrow. That's insane. But Skinner, I thought, made some key saves there. It's not like Calgary didn't have some decent looks, but you got to score five on three. You have to. Yeah. Like, Calgary didn't have some decent looks, but you got to score five on three. You have to.

Yeah. Like if the pressure's on, you know, Kadri and Goudreau, and yeah, Kadri scored a goal, but. It didn't look like they had a plan. It didn't look like they had practiced on that five on three. It didn't look like. If you ask me what they were trying to execute, I'm not sure. I mean, really disconnected.

They might be bad. While we were talking, Huberto is minus 10 in the last 10 days. Do we have Ryan Huska on Kadri and Huberto? We do have that. Yeah, I want to hear it. Okay. Clip one. I thought they were quiet tonight.

That's the way I could say it. Yeah, I thought they were quiet. And I think Huberto and Kadri, their ice time has been reduced a little bit in recent games. Do you want to maybe see a little bit more of those two? Well, I don't know if it's more. I mean, you look for everybody can be a difference maker in their own way. Like some guys are hard to play against. Some guys are like speedsters.

Some guys are tenacious around the net. So understanding what makes them really good hockey players and then looking to be a difference maker is important. So that's something that we need from those two guys for sure. They're key players for us, and they're very good players, and we need to see that consistently. See, McDavid and Dreisaitl are not allowed to be quiet. No.

If they're quiet, they lose. If one of them is quiet, they lose. McDavid was okay, and I get all of that coming back. Chance of a lifetime a great experience for you your family loves nickelback yeah i love nickelback all that i get that good interview with him right yes yes yes he looks like a human yeah it's great to see sorry yeah continue he asked about nickelback he opens right up baby it's all it takes burn it to the ground but they they've they've got to find a way to get on scoreboards

and they most often than not do doesn't even guarantee the Oilers a win yeah but thank you

Huberto and Kadri at what 18 million dollars between them two they've got to get on

the score sheet we should have a leaderboard of the euphemisms coaches use that are really harsh. And soft is the number one. Quiet is probably number two.

If anyone calls you quiet, it's, you know, what would you say you do here type of thing? No, they have to be impactful and lead the way for Calgary or else it's not happening. One team that should get some love on the weekend is the Vancouvercouver canucks yeah who i thought showed very well against the rangers entertaining hockey game it's really good hosed an ot right yeah host no you gotta call that trip on um petterson yeah absolutely it was

terrible it's interesting because we i just asked eric the question like when you're at this point in the standings this early, are you starting to have the conversation with yourself like, maybe our roster's not good enough? I am now at the point with the Canucks where I'm like, this might not be a fluke. Like I can squint and kind of see it. Well, if Calgary's not what you thought they'd be,

is there a wild card opportunity here for Vancouver? That's what you're asking. that's exactly right like and and not just is the opportunity there but like i kind of think that they're actually a pretty good team like demko's looking like demko patterson's great you know when their elite players are going heronic heronic and huser was just uh maybe even a better find than we thought. We kind of made fun of them for that one. Well, I think people made fun of the idea that they weren't going into a rebuild. Yeah.

Which, you know, if they get competitive here and get into the playoffs, maybe, you know, Quinn Huser is on our face. One would, your top four, your top two pair would have one of Huse and Hronik on. Yeah, they've been playing together a little bit too, well quite a bit and they've been great so that is a that is a great duo for them um they've been searching for someone to play with hughes so he's been you know watching that game on saturday night there was a absolute show of two amazing offensive defensemen. Adam Fox in that game was outstanding. And I think he kind of gets a little bit lost in that conversation when you talk about McCarr, you talk about Carlson

had however many points last year, talk about Quinn Hughes. But Adam Fox was legitimately excellent. He scores a tying goal. Like, he was really good. He lies and always looking off. He is awesome. Was he a second-round pick, Adam Fox? No, I think he was really good he lies he's always looking off he's was he a second round pick adam fox i think he was a was he a late first or did he go in the second because there are some

teams that passed on him jericho new york boy he was a third overall pick i was a third round pick third round and he went to college and then someone lost his right names well he was never going to Calgary, so it's not like Calgary had much of a choice here. They didn't blow it. They got a great trade. That was an excellent trade by Tree. Remember, it was the...

It was traded with... Carolina? Yeah, he went to Carolina. With Dougie Hamilton came back. Yeah. And Elias Lindholm and Noah Hanna. Yes. Yeah, it was a big one

that was a blockbuster yeah it's a rare time you get multiple pieces and they all your leafy sammy passed on adam flock didn't want him a sam yeah i hate him you didn't want him no he's sam he's a really really good player but yeah knox playing hard for talk it that's nice to see there's an argument to say that they they've been like from beginning to up until this point the the best overall team in canada the brightest surprise for sure yeah and you know what maybe surprise or not just overall uh the most engaged or uh responsive maybe that's the one i think responsive team to their coach i mean imagine having this conversation and not noting that the montreal canadians are five two and one tied with the

leafs you know to start their season two how many uh they're also five two and one they've done a couple in those three on three minus one goal differential for them the canucks are plus 12 okay canucks nice plus 12 that's a realucks. Plus 12 is nice. Plus 12. That's a real number. Cole Caulfield would be the best player in the history of the game if it was just three on three. Oh, yeah. He is electric.

He is what you were talking about if you find that entertaining. Yeah, he is a sharp shooter. All right. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary to bet at 365. Must be 19 plus, Ontario only.

Play responsibly. Now, tonight is a very exciting night in the world of sports. It is the Sports Equinox. Explain that, Sam. We have a NFL game tonight. A really not exciting primetime game with the Detroit Lions taking on the Las Vegas Raiders. We have a World Series match tonight with the Arizona Diamondbacks at home to the Texas Rangers.

We have a bunch of hockey games. We have a bunch of NBA games. So all four major sports are playing on the same day, which rarely happens. October and April, the two best sports months by miles. So I cooked up a little four game cross sports parlay for everybody. How fun. Thank you. A Vegas Golden Knights win. Yeah, it's. Thank you. A Vegas Golden Knights win.

Yeah, that's easy. Lock. Arizona Diamondbacks to win on the money line, minus 110. The Toronto Raptors on the money line, who are minus 370. Pretty big favorites. Portland, they're playing tonight. Stinks. Blew in overtime, didn't they?

Oh, my God. Weren't they up like a gazillion points with like five minutes? The Friday night game in Chicago was a debacle. Oh, the DeMar. Actually, I did catch something. It was truly horrible. And then the Detroit Lions minus seven at minus 110 for a five to one parlay on the sports equinox. So there you go.

There's a little. So you like the Lions? Yeah, I like the Lions a lot. Vegas rots. I just hate. I hate betting baseball because it's just so unpredictable. I think it's predictable tonight. It's only the first game in the—

Yeah, and another quick one I have here. This is a longer shot. Bruins and Panthers tonight. A little rematch from the first-round series. I think the Bruins are going to come out super hot in that game. It's a big statement game. It's in Boston. I like the bruins to be

leading to nothing after 10 minutes at 14 to 1 so there's a little specific yeah no but it's a little something a little fun for you i think they're gonna come out hot score a couple ones early maybe a close game but i think they'll be on fire to start that game at the td garden they'll get a couple calls like they always do there and away we go bruins still the oh sorry one of two undefeated teams in the nhl bruins in vegas still how many sorry, one of two undefeated teams in the NHL. Bruins and Vegas still. How many games? Well, not undefeated.

Seven. In regulation. Seven. Well, they haven't taken a loss. Well, they lost in a key. Can you tell me the teams the Bruins have beaten up until now? San Jose, San Jose, San Jose, San Jose. No, I don't know. It's been, I understand.

No, you're not that far off. It's been a soft schedule for them. Throw in Anaheim and throw in Chicago and... I'm pulling it up here. Right? I mean, I don't want to take anything away from anybody, but... Let me do it.

Buddy, we're in Canada. Take it away from the Bruins. Go ahead. Everyone will be happy. Their schedule so far. Yeah. They have played. They started with the Blackhawks.

Duds. Predators. Non-playoff, non-playoff. Sharks, Kings, Ducks, Blackhawks, Ducks, Red Wings. You get two fringe, two wild card teams. Red Wings are coming down to earth a little bit. And then they play tonight against the Florida Panthers. And then they play uh tonight against the florida panthers and then they play a real team on thursday the toronto maples the maplers yep what a test all right that was game time presented by bet365 visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never

ordinary at bet365 must be 19 plus ontario only please play responsibly do we still have time to kind of just mention like the san j San Jose Sharks is just embarrassing. Relegate them. Huh? Relegate them. Come on. So, I am a – their goal differential before November right now is minus 26. 0-8.

Minus 26, and the next worst team is, like, minus 15, and then no one else has double digits. So I have this theory that you can't tear it down past the studs like this. Like this is too far, even for a rebuild, trying to aim for a top pick. They should add players just to save face. Like unlike Chicago there, they've gotgan couture at a big number they got hurt hurdle at a big number like they got some money still here it's not like they they they completely got scott free with unloading carlson here they still got a lot of work to do to strip this thing

down like they can't strip it down more You have to pay at least to the floor. There's nowhere to go. They suck. They have $3 million in cap space. They need to add players. It's not good for developing anything. It's not good for your culture. It's not good for your fans.

They're mailing it in now. But fine, they'll finish bottom five if they add three good players tomorrow. We suck. This is too bad. You can't be this bad. Okay, we're going to take a quick break. Their roster is putrid.

Still plenty to get into, including a horrific accident. Pro hockey player Adam Johnson lost his life to an incident with a skate blade. Plenty of talk now about neck guards and should we make a mandatory. We're going to want to get into that. Kale McCarr took a heavy hit also. We want to discuss that. Plenty more. Joe Thornton retiring.

Our thoughts on Joe, Jumbo Joe. More to come still on Real Kipper and Bourne. Stick around. Sad news on the weekend when it was announced that former NHL player Adam Johnson died in what the team described as a freak accident during a Saturday hockey game when one of the opponents, Skateblade, came up, cut him in the throat, and just devastating news. It's not like we're unfamiliar with anything like this. We've had a couple of close calls over the last few years,

but I think maybe the most dangerous one, we can go back to maybe Clint Milarchuk in Buffalo, but outside of that. Zednik. Zednik was bad. Zednik, too. Zednik, okay. But, you know, it sort of happens in other places.

Lauka in Boston recently took one in the eye pretty good, pretty close, and it was Redmond in Winnipeg had his femoral artery cut during a practice you know it happens right i mean not to this extent of this awful tragedy um but the league i shouldn't say the league but hockey is trying to prevent some of it you know guys now wearing the kevlar wristbands and kevlar socks with, you know, not anti-cut technology, I guess, but certainly preventative. Eric Carlson, a great NHL defenseman, had an issue with a calf. Calfs seem to be something that players have experienced over the last few years. Yeah, I mean, feet are kicking around the corner.

That's more likely and a no-brainer to wear socks like that. So where are you guys in terms of what should be a player's choice to wear and what should be mandatory? Good question. I just don't feel like I paid enough respect to how awful this was, and just for myself, just, you know, for their family, their friends, everyone. Unthinkable. You know, our condolences from the show.

It's just seriously sickening. 100%. Awful. You know, that's an interesting question, Kip. The, you know, personal choice thing, and you're trying to be a professional, and if you feel that, you know, maybe a neck guard would somehow be prohibitive or hot,

or I saw TJ Oshie weighed in on it a little bit. He has a company, Warroad, that makes some Kevlar turtlenecks and stuff, and he was saying that he doesn't wear them for a number of reasons. He says he goes through a lot of shirts in a game, and he feels it just makes him even hotter and sweat too much and whatever. I feel like the owners spend a lot of money on the players. They invest millions in these guys to work for them,

and if you work at a plant power plant or whatever your boss has the right to say you got to wear safety goggles in here protect us and liability and all that i'd be okay with the team saying you got to wear kevlar here here and here i don't neck guards i don't know because it's i'm unfamiliar with it so it feels weird to say it'd be okay but i think i I'm okay with it. Does that make sense to you, that it kind of makes sense to me your employer would be able to say, we need you protected, we're invested in you?

I think neck guards in general are stigmatized by hockey. I think it's kind of an uncool thing to wear a neck guard. For sure. Turtle neck guard. Once upon a time, visors were uncool. I know.

Helmets were uncool. I play deer league hockey in Toronto, and I've worn amets were uncool. I play deer league hockey in Toronto and I've worn a neck guard for my whole time I've ever played hockey. I've always worn a neck guard and I would say

that's the number one thing that I get chirped for other than my crappy skating. Yeah. Is that guys would be like, oh, nice neck guard, nice neck guard. Like it's a,

it's like a stigmatized thing that's not cool to do. I never even thought of it. Like I haven't worn one in 20 years. Always wear one. Yeah. I play once a week with a few of the guys.

And I got my visor on. I've got my helmet on. I haven't worn shoulder pads since my last game. Yeah. Okay. So that gives some context on the game play. Non-contact. I guess if I fall, I'm not even sure shoulder pads will save a separated shoulder.

But I'm still loose on my wrists and I'm still exposed in my neck. And the first thing I thought of is, outside of how dreadful that is for his family and his friends, is like, I'm an idiot. I'm an idiot for going out there Thursday mornings and not covering up. Why? Like, what are you doing? Well, and then for me, I have a visor and I'm putting a cage on. Not because of this, but just it's dumb to not at my age.

And I know you're not wearing one, but I wore it in college for years. So maybe I'm a little more used to it. And it's just stupid to not have it on. And I need broken teeth. I took one in the face when I was 20 something. Yeah. Put a cage on it. Never again.

Yeah. It's like it just sucks. Yeah. But that's us who don't earn one dime from the game anymore. Great point. And the only thing I could tell you is remembering being in that position of playing and hearing about how close someone came to losing their eye that I just hope it's not me, but I don't want to wear a visor. I'm not going to do it.

Did you not wear one in the NHL? I did not wear one. Not at all ever? No. No. God, it must have been so nice though. Like, you know, have you ever done it? Yeah, of course.

When I play like shinny or whatever on Sunday nights. Yeah. Just outdoor. No fogging up or scratches. No, you get that cool wind in your face. It feels like a million bucks. I can only imagine how great it feels in the NHL until Tony Twist shows up and punches you in the face.

The feeling I've had since I've left the game is that you guys are the gatekeepers of the game. You play it. Nobody else plays it. You guys want to wear one. You wear one. You don't. You don't. That's your choice choice but you also made an interesting point is at some point where do the insurance

companies come in and the liability and you know if you gave them the choice of wearing a neck guard or uh sitting here with us doing a show every day i think they'd pick the neck guard i think so too and i wonder if technology hasn't come along far enough where they're fairly breathable if you could maybe compromise on a mock neck or not some thomas placanic right up to your you know chin or whatever i know i mentioned oshi before he said that he is going to order he ordered five from his own company and he's going to try it and have some of his teammates try it and just see how it feels yeah um the simple answer is that it should be no big deal put it on yeah protect yourself better for everyone whatever the league over there made it mandatory today to put them on

it did yeah so it's mandatory i think december 31st and right now strongly recommended until they can ensure they have enough um yeah man it's just it's sickening you know we have a seat belt law because people in car accidents were getting hurt and helmet law for bikes in a lot of places. And, you know, do you need to protect people

from themselves? This just seems like such a small thing. It's not really a performance thing. Is it? Yeah, but they, and I have, and others have claimed

that if I'm not comfortable with it, then it is a performance issue. Okay. Yeah, no, that's a fair point. Yeah. So, Cale McCart took a heavy hit Sunday in Buffalo. Just looked like a normal play along behind the net. Yeah, going back on the puck.

But a poser cut enough of him when he went in heavily. And, you know, not to separate incidences, obviously, but I think it goes to show you how quick and how fast something can happen on the ice. Yeah. And it wasn't, I didn't. I got no problem with the pressure there. I watched it three times.

Yeah. And I would never deem Ocpozo to be a dirty player. No, he's got a career behind him. And he knows, you know when you're chasing somebody yeah right behind you know you're chasing the sixth defenseman on the depth chart or the number one defense you're getting smoked you're gone i think it's another example of how fast something can turn ugly quickly yes like i i watched it watched it three times. I'm like, how did Makar not break his kneecap? Well, I know.

You know, I actually, I don't know if I ever wrote this article or not because I've been doing this for a while, but, like, I clipped a bunch of highlights of people going into the corner with D and putting pressure on them from behind, and most of the time, they take that pressure. They absorb that, you know, those hits or whatever.

They know there's someone on their back. You can hit people from behind and nothing happens until it does. You know what I mean? Dee often take contact there with no issue. Was that Berkey's idea, the bear hug idea? Yeah, go in and be able to wrap a guy up. To wrap a guy up? In itself, it sounds terrifying.

Your arms pinned to your side, screaming into the glass. I'm bear-hugging everybody. I got nothing but holding penalties from here on until the rest of my career. Quincy Williams over here. But Quinnen. Quinnen, yeah.

See, these guys are great skaters. They're world-class. But it doesn't take much to throw off one or two degrees and then once you lose it it's oh you're it's dying you're flying into the boards car's one of the best skaters in the world i equate it to when i when people say how can a guy fall like that or how can he he's supposed to be really good i'm like get on your skateboard go down your street and then hit a pebble and let's watch

a hundred percent let's watch it's like an f1 race or whatever it's like these guys are the best drivers in the world and all of a sudden a little slip and that's all you need is just a little slip so get your bike tire stuck in the streetcar track i've got a few friends that have worn that across the forehead uh i'm watching Detroit and Calgary last Sunday, I think, and Ruzicka gets thrown into the end boards. I'm like, three times, I'm like, how did he end up there? How is this skate over his head? And it's like, it was James Reimer going to poke check him

and just clipping his skate just a tad. And he's going 20 miles an hour on ice. It's done. You're done. There's no control. There's no time to protect yourself. There's nothing. And I know.

And so is the point here then these guys should wear all the equipment they can have? The point is it's a high risk out there. It's a constant high risk. Do you think they'll ever wear cages in the NHL? No. I don't see it anytime soon. No. No, I don't see cages.

Like there's a big complaint that you can't identify with the players already. Right. From a marketing perspective. I do think it's a league thing about player recognizability. It's just guys shoot everything high now. Goalies are on their knees. I know, Sammy. Prior to the show, you had mentioned that

you saw the video of Adam, unfortunately. You told me not to see it, but I needed to see it. I wanted to see it just so I can get a better understanding.

And this is the stupid world we live in in social media, but, you know, the opponent is probably taking a lot of heat right now. Which is the worst thing I've ever heard. Which is the worst. The worst. Matt Petgrave, who actually won the OHL championship

with the on-site attack. And I can't... Familiar with him. You know, I can't imagine what he's going through right now. But I needed to see it so I could just get a sense of our game still. And, you know, it's not the clearest picture. No. And it's really grainy. But my sense by watching it was that there was a guy in the middle driving

and whether or not he made contact, to my point about the pebble, they may have touched skates a little bit, and whatever happened between the player driving in the middle lane and Matt may have been enough to completely airborne his blade. And again, just to my point in all of this is that it just takes a fraction of an inch for something to go wrong. And it's dangerous out there. Well, then maybe Kevlar not mock next or not a terrible idea

to try out or whatever. If I was the team owner i would buy boxes full of them and be like please everyone give it a try at least just at least make an effort well you're trying to protect some 10 million dollar asset an asset yeah you know so yeah same with all the risk cards and stocks and all that. As you touched on, our thoughts and prayers are with the Johnson family. Absolutely. Okay. No real surprise, Joe Thornton retiring.

He's looked like he's been retired for a long time. I thought he was retired on the Leafs. Hey-o. You see the video? Him wearing the hat. He is wearing a shirt. No shirt. I don't think he's had a shirt on since he's retired.

Or since he's stopped playing. Congrats on an amazing career. Yeah. That's all I'll say. The guy just retired. I don't want to get after him too much. But you would otherwise? Because you kind of are inadvertently right now.

I hated that, the scene. I'll never forget the Amazon scene. Well, we're in first place. Yeah. Wow. Anyways. Guy just retired. Knowing Joe the way we kind of knew Joe,

he was always kind of this always look on the bright side of life kind of guy. I admire that, too. I get it. You know? You need some of those guys, too. You can have Nathan McKinnon freaking out over Kale McCarr not getting hit in a dirty way and getting ejected from a game you get you need guys like that yeah we also need some guys to say yeah we're doing okay

you know uh what do you end up with i think i have it right here thorton points that's 1714 games that's got to be top oh my god that's a lot of games that's a lot of games 1109 assists oh an art ross a heart and four times all-star he is sixth all-time in games played i can't imagine playing that long and not experience live lifting the silver trophy though i know and he knows too right that's that's hard he's the highest guy up this list that hasn't and not experience lifting the silver trophy, though. Oh, I know. He knows, too, right? That's hard. He's the highest guy off this list that hasn't, that's for sure.

On games played? Yeah. The number one guy didn't either. Oh, Patrick Barlow's number one? Yeah. Also, Joe is close to number one. God, tight cluster there. San Jose Sharks.

Oof. Archidolons to the San Jose Sharks might help watching them suck right now yeah yeah be horrible if they won the Stanley Cup now I bet you that was Joe being like I'm gonna retire I'm not going back to play for them all right just like that real kipper and boring over

our thanks to Eric Francis for joining us talking outdoor game we're back tomorrow nine games on tap including a rematch between the Florida Panthers and the Boston Bruins. What was it? Two goal lead for Boston

in the first 10 minutes, Sammy? Is that what you thought? Yeah. That's not happening. Boston, soft schedule. Florida will give them a good run tonight. Love it.

Okay. Stay safe, everybody. We're back tomorrow for more Real Kipper and Born.