Real Kyper & Bourne - When The Hall Calls with Mike Gartner

Episode Date: November 10, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with Hall of Famer and chair of the HoF selection committee Mike Gartner in-studio to tee up Hall of Fame weekend. He shares why this year's induction class features so many netminders, an inside look at the selection process, how an emphasis on 'skill' has evolved the game and weighs in on some fringe cases and former snubs. Later, a deep dive into the Oilers hitting a new low after losing to the Sharks, McDavid's stagnant production, Draisaitl showing frustration and Jay Woodcroft's job security. To wrap up the week, the guys look at Jack Campbell's AHL outing and answer your questions on the text line!The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

at Bet365. Must be 19 or older, Ontario only, please play responsibly. If you or someone you know has concerns about gambling, visit ConXOntario.ca. It's the Real Kipper and Bourne Show, National Edition, and we are live on Sports net sports net 650 in vancouver and sports net 960 in calgary and always but always this hour of real kippern born brought to you by bet 365 top stories include the edmonton oilers but we're not going there first because we got a very special guest in studio right now let's welcome in mike gartner hall of fame forward and chair of the hockey hall of Fame selection committee. Big weekend, Garts, and we know you've already been real busy

as of this afternoon with the ring ceremonies. If you've been living under a rock, we've got Ken Hitchcock and Pierre Lacroix. The goaltending is covered by Tom Barrasso, Henrik Lundqvist, and Mike Vernon, Pierre Turgeon, and of course, Caroline Ouellette as well. So huge, huge contributions to the hockey world. And first and foremost, guards, as always, thanks for coming. My pleasure, because all you have to do is send me a text, and you said, guards, are you going to be able to make it down here?

I said, I'm down here. How far away are you? And you said, I'm only a few blocks. So it's good. Okay. You know that Kipper and I, so we've been in three organizations together. So Washington we never played. But Toronto and New York. Yeah, I just missed them. Did you ever see him ably re-hosting a show and leading it off like that?

Is that a surprise for you? We had just gotten traded to new york uh and uh because it was a three-way trade i did not know steve larmer as well so we were all i don't know what hotel we were but uh mike gartner was kind enough to drive steve larmer and i to our very first new york ranger game really yes i mean because that's what veterans do right guards we do that's what we do, right, guards? We do. That's what we do, Kipper. You know? You just said you weren't quite as talkative back then, if I recall.

Oh my god. I was just like, what am I doing here? Are you nervous? Oh my gosh. Just sit in the backseat and shut up. And let the real stars talk up front between Larms and guards, of course. So give us a brief description

of what this afternoon was like with the ring ceremony. And of course, you know, these are all huge stars, but they must have felt like kids in a candy store. They did. Just taking a step back, Lanny McDonald is the chair of the Hockey Hall of Fame.

And Lanny and I have the great pleasure that when players and builders are voted into the Hall of Fame. And Lanny and I have the great pleasure that when players and builders are voted into the Hall of Fame back in June, we get to call them. And we're the first call. We're the first people that they talk to, which is so much fun. And then fast forward a few months from June until now, I have the honor of giving and presenting the rings at the press conference this afternoon at the Hockey Hall of Fame in the Great Hall giving and presenting the rings at the press conference this afternoon at the Hockey

Hall of Fame in the Great Hall with all of the Hall of Famers looking down on their plaques, down with all the future Hall of Famers there. And it is a pleasure. I look forward to that all summer long and I thoroughly enjoy it. And this is a really strong class that we have here today. Yeah, so it is interesting to me. Three goaltenders go in this year. The process is fascinating, I think, to a lot of people, the selection committee and all that. How does it come to be that three goalies go in one year, and how do these sort of balances get struck?

Yeah, I mean, good question, Justin, in that, you know, how does that happen? I mean, it really does happen because we're having discussions. These people are going to be voted on. They're future Hall of Famers when we're having discussions. These people are going to be voted on. They're future Hall of Famers when we're talking about them. But we start looking at statistics because we're bringing a lot of statistics into our analysis right now as the game has a lot of statistics in it. And we look at it and say, you know, from a statistical standpoint, we're a little light on goaltenders here. We're really light on goaltenders. And it's not like we're just trying to get goaltenders in. It's just that we have to consider the goaltenders that were

impact goaltenders and were stars and were superstars within their eras. And so we have to look at guys like a Tom Barrasso, who at age 19 out of high school comes in and wins the Calder Trophy and the Vesna Trophy when you're 19 years old. No one has ever done that before. And so he's a Hall of Famer and probably has been a Hall of Famer for a long time. And we certainly get a lot of criticism one way or the other, which of course we should, as one of the 18 members on the selection committee. And sometimes it is, why isn't this guy in the Hall of Fame or why isn't that player in the Hall of Fame? And our answer is usually, if they're a Hall of Famer,

they will eventually get there. And sometimes it takes us a little while, but we try to do the right thing at the end of the day. I can only imagine what a room full of 18 strong, opinionated hockey people would be like? Does it get animated? Does it get a little heated at times? Yeah, but not crazy heated, but it does get both.

And so it should because we are having a discussion and not an argument, but sometimes it's bordering on an argument on who we think should be in the Hall of Fame and who we think doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. So, yes, it is a little bit heated. And as I said, I think it should be. Who would be some names that people come up to you and say, why isn't this guy in?

I guess it's a long list. You know, there's a lot of names that come up. But, you know, guys like, why is McGilney not in the Hall of Fame? Why is Curtis Joseph not in the hall of fame why is curtis joseph not in the hall of sure um toronto market probably uh toronto market you have those things why did eric lindros take a couple years to get into the hall of fame instead of a first year um hall of fame inductee so there's a lot of a lot of things that go along with that but these are obvious questions and and the answer back is usually the same and that is patience

patience because sometimes there's a group that comes up that you look at them and you think that that's a that's a strong group i mean pretty easy pickings there but that doesn't come along all that often so you have to wait for a little lighter years to come so you can consider some players that are more on uh not on the cusp, but that need a lot more discussion. Mike, when we have our beer conversations or patio conversations talking about great players, as far as the public perception is concerned, the one deciding factor sometimes for a lot of people

on how great a player is, is, well, how many clubs did he win? Right? And I'm just wondering where that value comes in if all things kind of being equal, the perception of one guy winning or being a part of a Stanley Cup, how much is that? It comes into play. Kevin Lowe was a great, we both played with Kevin Lowe,

we had a great teammate. Kevin Lowe won a great, we both played with Kevin Lowe, we had a great teammate. Kevin Lowe won six Stanley Cups. That kind of puts you over the top, right? And so you have discussions like that. Mike Vernon, somebody who's going in, Mike Vernon was a really good goaltender, like a top goaltender. He won two Stanley Cups with two different teams. And so those types of things put you over. You have other players that haven't won a Stanley Cup that are also in the Hall of Fame. So it isn't a criteria, but it certainly carries a lot of weight, Kipper,

just as league awards, all-star, not all-star games, all-star teams at the end of the year, all carries a lot of weight. You know, I look at the league today and I see 32 teams, you know, which is so different than it used to be and you're going to see more players finish their careers without a cup more great players it used to be the great players eventually got theirs and that's going to be a tougher

discussion i think is it not as stanley cups become it is absolutely we i think you've heard berkey talk about it a number of different times on whatever uh show you want to listen to and berkey's on it yeah but it's true it's very true you're going to see a number of different times on whatever show you want to listen to, and Berkey's on it. But it's true. It's very true. You're going to see a lot of really good hockey players, a lot of great hockey players that come through that just had never won a Stanley Cup.

So that is going to happen more often. We're talking to Mike Gartner, of course, a Hockey Hall of Fame member himself. 1,432 games, 708 goals. 17 30-30 goal seasons to me is the most absurd thing that's a ridiculous stat yeah guards what happened with the two yeah what did happen let's focus on that what happened well there was a lockout in one year it's true uh so that happened in after the 15th year so there was lockout. And the last one was my last year playing. You know, Garth, when I was a kid and you end up watching a Hall of Fame ceremony,

you equate it with like old guys or just, you know. And now we're seeing all these young guys step out, step up and go into the Hall of Fame. And just that whole perception now on guys that are looking for this as a validation, but what it can also mean to the families and then even financially, Gartz. I mean, you have that label as a Hockey Hall of Fame. You know, the perception out there to even market yourself after that is absolutely huge now isn't it yeah i'm waiting for the financial benefits to come in well you missed yeah i missed the boat on that but um but you're absolutely right in that it is such a family thing

because you cannot get to the level of being in the National Hockey League or any sport, any profession. You can't get into the Hall of Fame by yourself. It just doesn't happen. It happens with great teammates, with great teams, with great family, with great friends, with great communities. And to a person, when we talk to people, when we tell them that they've been inducted into the Hall of Fame, and all the events that happened this weekend, and you'll see it on Monday night when they give to people, when we tell them that they've been inducted into the Hall of Fame and all the events that happened this weekend. And you'll see it on Monday night when they give their speeches. It will all be about everybody else because it's the one time that you can say thank you

to everybody else that got you to where you are. Yeah. You know, my father-in-law, Clark Gillies, a member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, and seeing the effect on their families, it is truly, it becomes a defining thing for some people. I think that's, if you asked him, career lifetime accomplishments, that's probably number one for him. So a large, large thing.

So when you look at the NHL today compared to the years that you played in it, how do you feel about the style of play now, the way that the game is? Kip and I sometimes talk about the way that the game has evolved. How do you feel about today's nhl compared to your era playing so i like watching the nhl when it's a good game and it's usually really good in the playoffs um there are some games that i could i gotta tell you honestly i mean there's some games i watch that i i just

say this just isn't a very good hockey game now that could happen at any era sure but I think that the way the game is played right now the players by by a margin are are more skilled top to bottom 1 to 20 I mean without question it's it's a more skilled game but because it's a more skilled game it's sometimes played like that without a lot of passion and so it's the one thing that I kind of miss watching and we don't need to watch everybody banging each other around but we just need to see some passion sometimes that you can't wait till the third period to see the first hit of the game and so I think that that's the only thing I miss and so I don't watch as much hockey during the season I like watching the Toronto Maple Leafs i live here in barry so i get to i get to watch them a lot um but i like watching the playoffs because or as it's

coming into the playoffs when games really mean something and that's the defining thing that i say between what the game was like and what the game is like now interesting that you say that because we just had a prior conversation we kind of finished it with doug mclean uh just before after he drove it in the ditch i'm not sure i forget the order but we were talking about uh the emphasis of this skill and and mike i mean you've been in the the rink business too and you uh made the the smaller rinks and again, more lens towards the development for sure of, of skill. But is,

is there a line maybe we've, we've gone too far on that type of emphasis and then just the simple things of, of what you're speak of, including the passion to, to be on the right side of the puck, to check, to play the percentages on getting a puck out or making one last move

that turns it over. Have we lost that? Yes, we have. So prime example is that a guy that you and I played with, Alex Kovalev, I've said could be the most talented player that I've actually played with. I watched him in practice all the time. I watched him in games. And I watched him for two years play keep-away hockey out there on the ice.

And it's like, Kov Kovy, you are so good. When are you going to actually take all that skill and decide that you want to score a goal? And when he did that, he became such a dynamic player because it was for a reason. And so I find that the skill has to be used out there for a specific reason. It isn't the reason to put the puck in the net. Like to get to the front of the net. You can play on a rink that's the size of Lake Ontario or you can play on a small rink.

You eventually have to bring the puck to the front of the net because that's where it's going to happen all the time. So I think that having that whole passion is a necessary thing to make for good hockey and to make for important hockey that we can watch right so you're watching the Leafs a lot we've had the conversation over the years about William Nylander talented guy maybe somewhat of the Kovalev mold where he's super skilled and I think has done a much better job taking it across the net you know kind of making those you know those

harder moves to the tough areas you know when you look at this Leafs team is that still an element you'd like to see more of from their core guys? Not to interrupt you, but we had a great conversation on Willie Nylander, and he blew me away when he told me. Do you remember what you told me? I do, I do. Like, Willie Nylander, first two strides are unbelievable. I've never seen anybody change direction like William Nylander.

You know, the way he can stop it up and move from side to side. I love watching him play. He's become a much better hockey player. He really has. But we talk about toughness. So you have your tough guy, I'm going to beat you up type of tough. The game's really not much there anymore. There's the odd guy.

Then you got your I'm going to scare you, I'm going to be mean, I'm going to run you over kind of tough. And then there's just the tough, I'm just going to play in the tough areas. And I'm going to take a whack on the back of the leg. And I'm going to take some abuse. And that's tough, too. And you don't have to be that big, strong guy to play tough all the time. But you need to play tough in order to be a successful player and a successful team.

And I love the Toronto Maple Leafs. I think they have a really good hockey team. I'm glad that they're the highest scoring team in the league because I've always thought that, and correct me if you think I'm wrong, but you can't teach offense. Defense is just purely a commitment. That's all it is.

It's just a commitment. And I'd rather be the highest scoring team in the league that's getting scored on a lot and tighten that up than being the lowest scoring team in the league because that's tough to manufacture. Yeah, I actually wrote this article today on that very thing. I am fascinated hearing that come from you, the guy who was probably the fastest guy in the league when you played.

And arguably one of the best skaters in the history of the game. Right, he didn't have to stand in front of any net. But did you ever learn that? Oh, no, I had 1,000 penalty minutes, though, at the league when you played. And arguably one of the best skaters in the history of the game. Right, you didn't have to stand in front of any net. But did you have to learn that? Oh, no, I had 1,000 penalty minutes, though, at the same time, too. So you're taking a little bit of a beating along the way somewhere. You got to stand up for yourself in that process. You have to stand up for yourself, but you have to stand up for your team. You have to play the way that you have to play

so that everybody needs to play that way. I mean, why did the Florida Panthers get to where they were? It wasn't because they're the best team, but you watch them play. They had a five-man attack all the time, everywhere, all over the ice. Everywhere. They were a true team. They were a team, and they were playing like a team. Now, honestly, you take the Toronto Maple Leafs,

and they just play a little bit like that, they will dominate. I mean, I still like their team. I really do. I like their like a team. Now, honestly, you take the Toronto Maple Leafs and they just play a little bit like that, they will dominate. I mean, I still like their team. I really do. I like their team a lot. It's just a matter of just saying, guys, we need to tighten this up. We need to play a better team defense, which, of course, they can do. As far as the Hall of Fame in general, it's got to be a pretty good time now to be a part of that.

Not that I'm ready to retire Ovechkin or Crosby, but they are closer to coming on your side of the Hall of Fame than others. Again, not ready to retire them, but it's kind of nice knowing that they're not too far off. Yeah, and if we can ever get Y yarmir yager to finally retire from then you know maybe we could include him in that same category but yeah we we've got some great uh great guys and great people in the women's game that are coming up i mean carolyn allette uh you know a uh a six or seven time world uh world champion uh four time olymp Olympic gold medalist. So we have a lot of good players coming down that we're going to be talking about over

the next few years. Has the criteria changed a lot over your years being on the selection committee? The criteria is a very broad criteria. It actually hasn't changed. It's just, who do you think is a Hall of Famer? It sort of is. I mean, because the only criteria for anybody to be considered in the Hall of Fame, you need to be retired for three years.

That's it. So we obviously know that there's a lot of people that aren't going to get any consideration, you know, of course. And so the group is smaller. But the criteria moves a little bit as you see different groups kind of come in, as the game gets a little bit as you see different groups kind of come in, as the game gets a little bit differently. I mean, you can't compare scores from the 1980s to scores in the 2000s. You just can't compare them.

Same with goalies, I imagine. Yeah, the same with goalies and save percentage and, you know, and wins and losses, goals against average, things like that. So it does have to be a little bit mobile and moving it back and forth a bit. Can you remind our viewers and listeners that there isn't a limit in how many times that you can consider somebody? It's not baseball where you run out of opportunities, correct? That's correct. Which is silly in itself, is it not? Like if people think you should be in 20-some years later, what's the difference?

Well, two examples were were kevin lowe and and doug wilson that got in after almost 20 years of being eligible and and uh and uh pierre turgeon has been waiting a long time too yes he has we we have a lot of conversations on this show where our producer sam loves to go hall of famer or not and you know it all it really is just opinion based and names that come up for some fringe guys, a guy like Joe Pavelski, who's still playing. You know, you hear people in Toronto say Phil Kessel in three Stanley Cups.

And, you know, your mileage may vary on how you feel about these guys. But do you watch the game now with an eye like, eh, he's on the cusp? You probably have a number of guys in your head that you're like, fringe. We do. But at the same time, a lot of times when you're watching players near the end of their career i mean you don't want to watch

just the end of their career you want to have watched them during the heart of their career because everybody uh everybody tails off a little bit at the end of the and did you also know that nobody ever retires uh is that true it's true because it's an insurance issue no you just you never you never retire because you stop retire because you just stop getting conscious. You just stop getting paid. I'm still playing right now. Justin, I play twice a week. When we see some of those trades,

the general managers have made over the last few years, there's good. There could be a chance you can get a call at any time to come in for a PTO. Okay. I want to, I want to pull out a little bit of my union tough guy card here. And I'm going to give you some names that would they ever be considered. Or is it when you look at someone with 1,500 or 2,000 penalty minutes or 2,500, Dale Hunter, Pat Verbeek, Rick Talkett.

I mean, these guys, huge contributions to their teams in the playoffs. Does the makeup of that generation and how they had to play to make their team feel safe or add to it, does that get lost a little bit? Because, hey, oh, no, six suspensions here and this one here. Do you guys talk about that sort of stuff um we do and that will have basically no bearing on it because there's a lot of people on our committee that like the guy that has 2500 minutes and for sure and we know how important those guys especially the guys that can play of course they're not getting considered for the Hall of Fame unless they can play

while being that tough competitive player at the same time. So that is not going to go against them from the standpoint of whether they're going to be considered in the Hall of Fame or not. Yeah, that's... So Hall of Fame for like... Are you thinking like Bob Probert, like a guy like that who, you know, impactful guy? Listen, scored 35 goals one year.

One year. Maybe not that. Yeah, maybe. But there are some guys... You gave a few, though, Nick, right? I mean, you did. Just a few off the top of my head. I bet you I could come up with five or ten

that maybe could maybe cross that line a little bit or at least give you guys something to really think about, you know? Any chance for a Hall of Fame for fame for like good guys in the room good guys in the room party guys fit that category i can tell you that right now organize the hangouts yeah well that's awesome stuff um outside of that uh you know traditionally november every year you guys are happy with that is we're gonna see another alumni game. Are you playing in the – I am.

I'm playing this Sunday. Is it Joe Neuendijk versus Adam Oates? It is. I'm playing on Newey's team because I guess it's the scores versus the setup guys. So I had 700 goals and 600 and some assists. A few of them off the pads, I got to tell you, off the goalies' pads. So, yeah, we're taking them on and uh looking forward to it awesome all right well listen we certainly appreciate your time here it's gonna be a

great weekend and uh i'm looking forward to it as well thank you mike for joining us appreciate it justin yep that is hall of famer mike gartner and it's going to be a tremendous a weekend hall of fame weekend all right we're going to take a quick break, I think, and we'll come back with Sammy and discuss the Edmonton Oilers. Back after these words. Your daily dose of everything NFL. It's the Fan Checkdown with Matt Marchese and Donovan Bennett. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Mike Gardner was great. He was wonderful. That was fascinating stuff. Gave us real opinions on some tough subjects, I thought. Yeah. The game today, Nylander. It's going to get so much harder. It used to be like, yeah, I score 800, 1,000 points. Yeah, come on in to the Hall of Fame. Yeah.

Now it's like, no. It's just not enough. You know, there's 32 teams trying to win a Stanley Cup. I've contemplated writing an article about this about how if players really want to win a stanley cup today they can't wait until the end of their career like joe thornton or patrick marlowe to start like chasing it around teams you know like you kind of somewhere in the middle of your career have to make that the priority it's impossible younger game too right like you can't just like

you're like we're good thanks you guys want to do some game time of course let's go all right it's game time presented by bet 365 visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at bet 365 must be 19 plus ontario only please play responsibly um got a few things for you tonight looking at the hall of fame game here in toronto a bit of a revenge game a couple revenge game bets okay cadre to me coming to toronto played his best game against nashville yep and he loved being a leaf i think that you know the trade situation didn't he he didn't wave his no trade to go to calgary the first time right was that how it played out he wouldn't wave his he wouldn't wave to go there. They were going to try to get

Brody. Yeah, which is always fascinating to me about what the perception would be of Brody if they had a traded Kadri as opposed to just a signing. But so Kadri, big night in Toronto Hall of Fame game. I would be pretty confident saying Kadri's going to score plus 200.

And on the other side of it, Kelly Yarncroft playing against his former team. Does he have emotions? Do you think he wants revenge on anyone? Been playing well? I thought he scored the OT winner against the Lightning, had a two-goal game. So give me a Cali Yarncroft goal at plus 325 tonight.

Okay. I'm fascinated to see if, in fact, Calgary does retool, reset, reload. Trade good players. And where is Kadri in all of this? Well, Calgary presumably with that contract, right? Not necessarily. They could trade Kadri. Oh.

I don't think so. I actually don't excuse my silence. they might have to eat some of it but like i just think that if if you make a decision to unload some of your d and you want to if you're craig conroy and you need to kind of take a pause here what kind of assets would cadre bring in you might have to eat a million and a half two maybe two he makes seven so he's attractive at five yeah seven this year and four more five more seasons after that 2029 is his last year and how old is he? 33. I think, I do believe that Kadri could attract some nice pieces if you ate some of that. I think even if you are doing any sort of retool or rebuild,

I don't even think that the return would be that important as much as freeing yourself up, freeing the money up to do something else if you decide that that's the direction you want to go so uh i i agree with that but your only chance to get better quicker is with assets and you can't you got to treat them all like they're gold i don't care if they're fourth fifth or six picks they are the difference we talked about the gold eric carlson thing where you could have retained a bunch yes and turned him into assets yes or you cannot retain and just get rid of the money and you're stuck where you are i don't know what what happens with jonathan

huberto well i don't like where that goes and even if you made the decision to eat two or three million dollars i don't know if ten and a half is so high that I'm not, I don't, I don't know how attractive he would be at eight and a half right now or eight. Yeah. I think, I think he's a flame,

a locked in flame, a little longer. Maybe I saw somewhere, something I read today, apologize to whoever said it. That was probably Elliot that they were, the flames would be prioritizing someone to play with

Huberdeau in any sort of trade. Like, knowing they have him, knowing he needs him. Nick Robertson. That's who it is. But, Kadri, to me, if you're a Stanley Cup contender and you can figure out a way to make the money work, he's shown in that Cup run, he's shown in

playoff years past what an excellent complimentary player he can be it's like any of these deals you assume that if he can help you now you'll deal with the problem in the other end like he was excellent for them in the playoffs excellent and lindholm is a terrific centerman but i on a championship team wouldn't you like to see him come in at as a second type of centerman? I would love for him to be the Leafs' second line centerman. Only because I'm sick of talking about them not having a guy who can... Conscience.

You know, exactly. Have some conscience and play a little bit more both ways. Couple more quick ones. Ovi got a score, eventually. Plus 110 tonight for any time Ovi goal. Is he still in two? I think so, yeah. Right?

Speaking of Lindholm. He's going to score again. Uh-oh, what do you got? I'm just saying that it's over for Backstrom. That is nine and a half off the books. There is no way they let that whole lift any longer than they have to. This isn't about them making the play. This is about OV.

Hey, pal, Huberto, this conversation we just had, it's like the same money, and he's a setup guy. I'm just saying. Bring me new Nick backstrom they are the ov screaming for a new backstrom to get him going two goals two goals in 11 games and one's an empty netter i can picture ov just standing there alone on the rink feeling scraping waiting for someone to get one in the other goal of course is against the lease yes naturally no you you go lindholm you knock on calgary's door and say what are you doing with this guy like get one in the wheelhouse. And the only other goal, of course, is against the Leafs. Yes, naturally. No, you go Lindholm. You knock on Calgary's door and say,

hey, what are you doing with this guy? Like, he shoots in that 40 times. You don't want him. You want Huberto. That's what you want. Is that what you're saying? I offer you one slightly used. Craig Conroy, that's his answer.

Jean-Antoine. And the last quick one I have, did you know that the San Jose Sharks are going into Vegas on the second half of a back-to-back tonight? Are they going to lose by two touchdowns for real this time? I don't know about that, but I like Vegas. I think it was plus two.

I forget the number, but minus goal and a half in the first period against the Sharks tonight. Yeah, I love that bet. It's going to be... But you had the Oilers minus four and a half as a bet yesterday. Yeah, and let me tell you. So I've been hearing about it. The text line.

Yeah. There it's minus goal and a half is plus two 65 tonight for the, for the Vegas. I'm going to bet that. Okay. It probably shouldn't the way my picks were going, but yeah, I said they're going to win by two touchdowns.

I guess we can transition out of here. That was game time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly, fellas. So that segues right into the hottest story in the National Hockey League. And that is, of course, the Sharks have won two in a row.

Oh, no, no, no. Maybe not. Maybe it's the slumpy Edmonton Oilers. Okay. Don't gloat so much. I mean your Leafs aren't that far behind. I'm not. I'm not taking pleasure in this. I'm telling you right now. I'm not taking pleasure in this.

I promise you I'm not taking pleasure in it. Nothing tastes more delicious than schadenfreude. No, there's no schadenfreude. I honestly, it's better when they're good. Like the league, it's more fun when their fans are engaged and they're good and Conor McDavid lighting it up. He's the best player in the league. He's not the same guy.

A gazillion shots, gazillion chances, and they can't find a game to get them on the other side of the score sheet. They can't get a bounce. I like my numbery stuff. In all my years looking at numbery stuff, I have never seen this. They are first place in the NHL in expected goals for a differential, and they are 30th place in real goals for a differential. That is cannot get a bounce. exemplified so they are not this they're not two nine in one with a 200 winning percentage

they're not this bad but oh my god everything is going wrong you know goaltending it's how much do you value that you can get 10 or 12 shots at one time but then you give up the most ridiculous scoring chance at the other end once and following the leaves and the once is way bigger than the 12 yeah like they it's like overtime, right? Where one team just dominates and then the other team goes down and shoots in your net. The Zetterlund. Zetterlund? Lund. Lund?

Zetterlund. Zetterlund. Goal. Yeah. How do you lose? Is that the nurse pinch? No, that wasn't the nurse pinch. It was the first goal of the game where he looked like Charlton Heston in the Ten Commandments

when the sea just parts. Yeah, he shot it in the net wide open. Right down the middle. Like, he looked like you at the driving range. Right down the middle. Right? With a bucket of balls, just hammering. Yeah.

And that's all season long. The ice could look tilted, but that's the grade a chance that you give up for the first goal of the game you know i watched some of those goals and i could easily see people saying not the goalie's fault he's moving across whatever but like you're allowed to make tough saves too you know like demko helping vancouver a little bit they're not getting any stops kip i would say that in the first two periods of that game you know skinner did make a couple like they didn't get a ton of chances but like he they shot it through him 90 seconds into the game and yeah nurse pulled it off the line he made a couple like

you gotta score more two goals against the san jose sharks yes 100 percent it's just saying david has four even strength points in 10 games wow Which I think Conor Bedard might have had last night. Wow. So, that's an issue. Well, it's not good. Oh, Drysaddle's having a tough time. Thank you. Lovely drop-in by Brad May there. Should we listen to Drysaddle and see how he's

feeling about things? Yeah. Drysaddle, please. It's a tough league. Guys play hard. Obviously, not too many guys in this room that have confidence right now. So, you know, I'm part of that group. So, yeah, just keep trying to get better every day. Is that just it where it's like it doesn't feel like anyone's going right now?

Have you ever experienced something like this where, you know, some guys still slump, obviously, but it just feels like no one's going right now. Yeah, great, great observation. That's so mean. Why are you so pissed? It is mean, but thanks, Tips. Well, what are you supposed to do? You're just trying to get them to, what's going on here? Find a way to frame it where you actually have a question that can be answered.

That's all. Like, he's right. He's right. You got some stones. You didn't ask him a question at all. I don't know who asked it, and I'm not trying to make fun of him or put him down. Good job is what I say. It just sounds like a reporter's up there. He sounds nervous as hell.

I would be too. Yeah, of course. How could you not be? He's wearing steak gloves and petting a lion. First of all, you got a badge. I assume someone's paying you to be in there. Act like a pro. Act like you got the question already set up and you're not making it up on the spot.

Just try that. Convers that conversations that's how interviewing conversation you know what this show you know you guys have planned that's a great observation great observation i i do new drop i i know i know leon could feel you know like he wants to take a swing at somebody at that point but i don't know i just have more of a purpose so they lose to the san jose sharks even if you don't get goaltending you know pretty unacceptable showing two nine and one you know mark specter of sports net as a piece today that fires them just says you know all right what else are we doing what else are we doing and you know i just don't know that they're i feel like they've been very unlucky i think that

mcdavid's a little bit hurt i think they haven't got a save like do you think he's going to take the fall here the only way he takes the fall right now is if Ken Holland or you know the ownership group feel like the the outside pressure and the influence that we were talking about earlier with Doug McClain is overbearing firing Jay Woodcroft doesn't change I think a lot about what ails them and that's a blue line that just isn't good enough and I don't know does does Connor scoring come back instantaneously because what you so it's Glenn Gullitson behind the bench with Jay Woodcroft. Dave Manson. Dave Manson.

I don't believe that they will go to. Glenn Gullitson's got the experience of being a prior NHL coach. That one could be fairly easy to do, but I'm not sure, A, it changes much of the perception out there from the fans yeah if you have the same other guys what's the point and number two is can we recall

over the course of maybe a little bit of history here how many times does an assistant coach who has been on the bench with the head coach go in there and have great success biles him on the bench with pittsburgh when he took over he was coaching the hl team i think right yeah i think he was wilkes-barre yeah i think he was coaching the al but i i don't know

i get your point i don't know lou lou going down to the bench i hate the hiring of the assistant coach move because it's you're making it look like you're doing something you're doing nothing that assistant coach has been there if he has some better idea well go ahead and let's have it why didn't you withhold that and if you haven't had the idea then you're the same guy so it's just a cheap thing when you don't want to pay someone else to me so doesn't change in would you then go to a claude julian who's out there and that's the name that you kind of hear is it uh you uh gerard gallant who short-term guy who's had success in in the first two years anywhere he's been

and it doesn't seem to last very long anywhere but he's would you now and these guys aren't these guys are experienced coaches who you're gonna have to pay and i don't think they're gonna come in and just say hey why don't you just come in for a year or two they're gonna want a three or four year deal they're not gonna go into that firestorm without having some security so they're gonna to want a three or four year deal edmonton's prepared to give claude julian a four-year deal yeah come on no no you're right so it's a good point like ken holland's in the last year his deal and then he's done he's done done so there's no one that believes that ken holland's gonna uh sign on

uh at the end of at the end of this season. So then there's reason to believe that they could or should or would maybe make big trades, get aggressive, try to get help on the roster. This is desperation time with a team that is supposed to be a cup contender and they're 32nd a month into the season. Great observation. Please use that drop as much as you like.

That could be our new number one drop right now. It's really effective because I have a lot of them. The moment I'm done speaking, you could use that every time. Great observation. How about this observation? Get ready.

Derek Brandeo. Ken Holland allows Jeff Jackson now to go in as the general manager. Great observation. They're there anyways. We believe that that transition is coming.

I think preferably they would have liked to do it at the end of the year but could that be a an option for them now you know what there's a i did this trick with my daughter the other day a pen with a blue cap and a black cap and you put it under a thing and then you cover it up and then you flip it and show hey you changed the pen a little from column a a little what is this gonna do it's the same thing he's already there you know it's the same can you can you do that trick for me sure it's the same maybe just show people you're doing no it's just uh it's just starting something early. And I do believe that. Like it actually empowering him to make aggressive moves.

Okay. Yeah. And I'm not saying that you need to, no one's firing Ken and no one will fire Ken. Ken will leave when his contract's up and he won't renew it. And if he does, it'll, it could be under something that oversees something. If he chooses to consult, whatever.

But I do believe that Ken still has the final say in a lot of things here. And if Jeff Jackson's going to take over, then start giving him the final say right now. Sure. It's something. I mean. Or is it the pen trick right now? That's what it feels to me.

Whoa. Sleight of hand. That's actually very good fake thumb right there. Yes, it is. Well, I mean, I've seen it. I just, it's well executed. Thank you. Okay, stop that now.

Okay. It's off the rails Friday, right? Once, twice, not seven, Sam sam unless we get some blood out of that when you pull it apart you know the the thing that i feel about the edmonton market right now is they're waiting for a shoe to drop they don't feel like this is sustainable without some change. I know the Jack Campbell send-down was supposed to be some sort of turning point. Skinner, fine. You know, was to blame last night.

Guys, I went out there and I cut the clips to Jack. Do we really want to do it? So Jack Campbell went down... It's the end of the week. Can we just leave some tags? It's so... Is it that bad? I've not heard it. Just play one for me. Play some John Campbell.

Campbell got lit up. Derek, play the... What was the final score? They gave up four. Four-one. They lost? Yeah. Including one that was a roller.

Like it was... A literal roller. Shows up on my Twitter feed like filled with a potato, a grainy video of a trickler going through him. It's like, oh my God. Went through the middle of his pads.

Yeah. Let's play clip one for Kipper because he wants to hear it yeah kevin that's a great question um pretty tough not gonna lie um pretty hard on myself i think that's pretty well documented around the hockey world and uh you know obviously it's a results league up there and really anywhere but felt like i was um playing well had some confidence um but obviously the the numbers weren't weren't good enough so uh nice to get out there tonight even though it didn't quite go as planned um always played hard uh great group of guys in there so looking just to have some fun build on on my game, and, yeah, just keep getting better. Okay, that's not anywhere close to being as bad as you said.

Yeah, it's pretty bad, man. It's not great. I get it. It's not great. But I just want to throw this out there, that there's a lot of people out there that constantly want to throw up money in athletes face but like there's a tremendous amount of stress on him and he's not sleeping well at at night and it's just not about the money with these guys and i think that's just a human

side of of what these guys go through and i that's the only reason i wanted to kind of play it and i i honestly thought i was expecting worse and it wasn't yeah but like it matters to these guys and some some fans constantly want to say you're making 25 just you know and it's not it i i don't think connor's sleeping well at night leon's not sleeping well at night big markets go talk to the vancouver canucks last season yeah like no i know and i the campbell one to me i the only really noteworthy piece of that is to me he says i thought i was playing well but the numbers didn't show that or something like that yeah which you know that's a little something to the organization for me he's like you know you guys he's saying you made me the scapegoat.

It wasn't that bad. All right. There's another clip. Let's play the other clip, Derek. We'll play the second one because it's even more of that kind of thing. So, Derek, play clip two from Jack Campbell. Pretty surprised, not going to lie. You know, not fun up there so far this year.

We're working through it and obviously looking to get the results going. Hearing the news is very difficult. Kind of a nice step just coming in tonight and playing, even though it wasn't quite my best, but look at the tape and just move on. Excited to practice tomorrow. It'll be my first practice really with the guys, and first practice in a few days actually. So looking forward to getting to work.

So he's surprised. I can't believe we got another just move on. I know. You think he's played his last game as an Edmonton Oiler? I have no idea, Cameron. No. Do you? I have no idea.

I'll tell you what I do have an idea of. He has three and three quarters seasons left on that deal. I'll tell you what I do have an idea of. There's three and three-quarters seasons left on that deal. I'll tell you what I do have an idea of. It's a crazy game. And just when you think somebody's down and out, they find a way. In the movie, this is the really sad part before Campbell gets back up there by the end of the year and leads him to a Stanley Cup. Okay, I wouldn't go that far.

It's a bit of a far-fetched flick. Let's get him back up. It's a Disney movie. And then run the credits. And he's played by Air Bud. Just get him back called up and then end the movie and then roll the credits. Okay.

Text. Someone tell Doug McClain that Winnipeg still has an NHL team, since he mentioned every Canadian team and how each is doing, except Winnipeg. And by the way, the Jets are playing great two-way hockey right now. Yeah. All I can say is that is our producer does the lineup, and it never includes the Winnipeg Jets.

The Winnipeg Jets, all they do is win. They have beat the Predators, the Blues, the Coyotes. They had one loss in there, but then before that, they beat the Rangers. Like, they've really on a tear. 7-4-2 now. I think the reason we talk about the Jets the least is because they're kind of where we thought they'd be.

They're pretty good. They're humming along. You know, 7-4-2 or they're 6-5-2. That's about where we thought they'd be. Dallas, New Jersey, and Buffalo coming up. There's some good tests. There's some really good tests. Dallas will be a fun game to see.

Yeah. But much like Vancouver, like they got those two teams have two of the better goalies in the National Hockey League. Well, Hellebunk's had a slow start. When they're going, though, it gives you a very good chance to win. Yeah.

Yeah. Hellebuck is one of those difference makers. Hey, boys. Great show. I just thought I'd mention on how famous Justin Bourne is in West Kelowna. Every time I go for a skate, I have to look up the 1999-2000 Midget Champion banner

that has his name on it from danny in west colona what's up danny well let me tell you that is the highlight of my hockey career we just had guys with stanley cups in here so i feel a little humbled by that but it uh give me some numbers that year uh top scorer yeah i think i i think i had like 120 points maybe maybe 110 points maybe i'm a bit high on that. Like a Jonathan Huberto season in Florida. 10 goals and 100 assists. Yeah, that was good.

That really was a career highlight, though. I'm very, very proud of that. Wow, there you go. I love it. I'm glad I could do that for you on a Friday. From my boy Jeremy and Meaford, Toronto to Stockholm is a direct is about seven and a half hours. I'm here for you, fellas.

All right. So helpful. you, fellas. All right. So helpful. There you go. All right. So your point is it just doesn't matter? Yeah. Not as long. It shouldn't be that taxing.

Yeah, well, they're getting served caviar and moe. It should be fine. I'm going to take another crack at bringing a leaf some luck. Are you going to go down? Yeah, I'm going to go down. You're just dressed nice by chance. No, I'm going down. You look great.

What do we call this? The Bradtree Living Bowl tonight? It's the Brad Bowl. The Brad Bowl. Soup and a Brad Bowl. Go double dipping in the Brad Bowl. Go Argos. Argos.

Big Eastern final. Our thanks to Mike Gardner and Doug McClain. Everybody enjoy your Hall of Fame weekend, and we're back on Monday.