Real Kyper & Bourne - Who Will Benefit from a Salary Cap Increase?

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne are joined by 32 Thoughts and Hockey Night in Canada's Elliotte Friedman (5:00) to chat about the NHL issuing Ryan Reaves a 5-game suspension for his hit on Darnell Nurse, the league potentially surpassing their original projected salary cap for the 2025-26 season, Mitch Marner's next contract, how future deals will be affected with a new CBA, the landscape of professional hockey in Winnipeg and the prospect of Kyle Dubas leading a rebuild in Pittsburgh. Then, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee discuss Rick Tocchet benching J.T. Miller in the third period against the Nashville Predators, Connor Bedard's sophomore slump and Alexander Ovechkin closing the gap to Wayne Gretzky's record.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right let's take it national on the real kipper and born show nick kiprios justin bourne sammy mckee we are live on sportsnet 650 in Vancouver and Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. This hour, Real Kipper and Born brought to you by Bet365. In a couple of minutes, we'll welcome in Elliot Friedman, Hockey Night in Canada, 32 Thoughts. And he's got plenty of them for our show coming up.

Mm-hmm. In the meantime... Talk about Darnell Nurse. Darnell Nurse. Ovechkin. Now considered out five to ten days, according to his head coach. So the good news is no one's using the C word, concussion. Yeah, that's great news.

I mean, we talked a little bit in the other hour, but Nurse uh almost at 21 minutes per night for edmonton that would be a significant loss for them um you know mcdavid plays five seconds more per game than this guy and whatever you think of nurse you may not love his contract he's certainly a valuable guy compared to you know whoever they're going to bring in next i think josh brown probably and so that's they're going to bring in next, I think Josh Brown probably. And so that's, they're going to miss him. But not 10 days is good news. And listen, I know we talked about this a little bit in our first hour.

Nobody liked the hit. No one wants to see anybody go down like that. But, you know, it's kind of, I mentioned, I think the league has done an unbelievable job of cleaning these type of hits up. I know we've only seen, I think, two to my recollection. This year. This year.

And that's close to 600 games. You know, we're teetering on the quarter of a season mark here. And, like, we just don't see these anymore. To your point, I used to, when I worked at the score, I used to do this article called Court of Public Opinion. I would lay out the facts and the replay and whatever. And I was doing one every other day. every day was like a what did you think of the bad hit from last night um yeah it's it's just so much more infrequent which is great yeah

and i think there was consideration that darnell was hurt uh consideration that it's scary that it's not reeves first first time with an illegal check to the head. He's been warned. He's been fined. He's been suspended in other instances. So once you're into that three, four, five-game range, it is what it is. Yeah. And so for the Oilers, you know, such a weird team and year.

They're, what are they, 9-7-3 or something, right? 9-7-2 at this point. You know, fifth in the Pacific Division by points. It just feels like there's so much there for this team, and an injury would do significant harm to that. Now, we also have kind of felt that Edmonton is a contending team, but whether or not we believe that blue line is strong enough as is, they lose Nurse now.

What does that do to the pressure of that blue line? Well, yeah, the bottom six right now in daily faceoff is Kulak, Emerson, Dermott, Brown. You know, you're not winning the Stanley Cup like that. You're just not you know i went into the stanley cup like that you're just not so add nurse into the mix presumably you add someone else nurse has been good with kulak that's a fine pair but you probably need a little help uh on the bottom pair still yeah and you look at that game on saturday night it wasn't the bottom half of their decor that cost them no bouchard had a couple of pretty significant gaffes there and you know he does he not remind you though the way people talk about him is like a kneelander type of guy in toronto

the way that it's like you just love what he gives you but sometimes you're like oh i'm eric carlson carlson's a better comparison you're right yeah eric carlson like he is this generation's version of eric carlson who's got so much upside offensively and can shoot the puck and he's awesome on the power play with dry sidle and mcdavid but when that puck goes behind him it's an adventure you know the the mcmahon one that banks off the boards and goes by him and he doesn't quite go all out to get back he knows he's not gonna catch mcmahon there like i understand the feeling of being like what's the point but you still have to skate your hardest just in case he bobbles it or pulls up or something you can't just am i at my guys got him like he got a skate

i think that's where the willie comparison comes in and one of the things that's you know really stuck in the craw of leaf fans for a long time being like oh he just doesn't get in the corners he doesn't skate hard it's like just these moments where you're like that really bothers fans and judging by the state of Oilers Twitter on Saturday night and

throughout the day and the memes I was being sent it's not they probably did not enjoy pizza off McDavid's hip to Matthew Nise either but anyway okay we're gonna bring in our next guest should we put put him on

Zoom? I'm scared what his hair would look like. Oh, is that everything you hoped it could be? It didn't disappoint. Hey, Sam, I got to ask you, Sam, you pull out that sweatshirt every day the day after they win the break. Oh, hey, now. No, I go to five, six games a year.

I wear hats. I'm an Argos guy, but don't even come for me. Argos. Look at that Canadian accent. Jeez. Is there a clause in your contract with Sportsnet that you can't shower after a Saturday night game? That's right. That's right.

It's Saturday to Wednesday. It's a shower. Saturday to Wednesday. Elliot, thanks for joining us. Of course, Hockey Night in Canada and 32 Thoughts. So we're just talking a little bit about the Darnell Nurse hit. And Reeves gets five games. My question to you is if they contemplated five games,

why not just announce an in-person hearing that he probably waved to do it on the phone anyways and get more bang for your buck on the severity of a five game suspension or am i off on this because i was surprised it went up to five when when i didn't hear in-person hearing you know it's a great question nick i when i i that's the one thing I was wondering in person or not. That's the only question I had. And when they said no in person, I thought it was going to be five exactly. And, you know, Nick, you were a really active union member when you played. I remember I first started covering, uh, the NHL right, right around 94. And I remember going to those meetings and you were one of the guys who was always there. And I remember going to those meetings

and you were one of the guys who was always there. And, you know, one of the things that's happened over the past couple of years is the Players Association started appealing suspensions that they never appealed before. If you look at it, anything that's six games or more, the in-person hearing, you get the arbitrator before the commissioner.

And those ones would get appealed from time to time. But anything under six games goes right to the commissioner with no in-person hearing. And the players never used to challenge that, never. And last year or two years ago, I can't remember when it was now, they challenged three of them. And we'd never seen that. And what it taught the Department of Player Safety,

Peros and his staff, is they have to justify everything. They have to be able to say, this suspension is this because if not, we're going to get appealed on it. And if our appeals aren't solid and our reasoning isn't solid, eventually we're going to get caught. So I think they're even more by the book and by precedent of what existed earlier. And if they didn't go to in-person hearing here, I think it's because either they thought it wasn't worth that or they were like, we better stick to what's happened in the past. Because if we get grieved, we don't want to lose to an arbitrator ellie you're

so in touch with all the stuff that's going on with the league and uh during your headline segment on saturday night you talked about the salary cap and i think that was a really interesting discussion where you're talking about the league blowing past what was perceived to be the upper limit of the escalator taking it to 92.5 what you know, could you go a little deeper on that for us? Well, sure, Justin. So basically to make a very long story much shorter and much easier to understand, when they did this CBA in 2020, like we did not know what the world was going to look like.

We were just into COVID. Everybody was hanging on for dear life in terms of just the financial health of all these different leagues. And basically the players decided that, you know, they would accept for a low S pro, they would accept some guardrails on the salary cap. And basically what happened was, fortunately for the NHL, their revenues were so strong coming out of it and they've done very well that those got the what should have been 50 50 blew past those guardrails and so like depends on who you talk to like some people are really optimistic they say the cap would be 100 million now if it was still under the previous system there are some people who are a little less optimistic they say probably around 95 or 96. But the fact is, it would be higher than the 88 it's at now.

And next year is the last year of the current CBA. If they don't change it, there could be a massive spike, assuming they go back to 50-50 in the new deal, which we assume they will. Like, again, the most optimistic people think that in two years the cap could be 110 i've had some people who would say it would be a little lower than that but no but and 110 is a little bit too high but it's not like it's 15 million dollars shy of that so i think they have a choice justin they can can stick with what the CBA says for next year, which is 92-5, and then go to a huge jump the year after, or they can smooth it out next year and have a bit higher of a jump,

maybe to 95 or 97. And the reason this ended up on my lap is the Players Association is doing its fall tour right now, and they're telling the players that this is a possibility. And nobody from the NHL has said, I'm wrong. I mean, they won't say anything. They don't want to talk about labor. But the people that I really can get best talk to is they say,

it's not impossible. It still has to be negotiated. Some of the teams are aware of it. A lot, some of the teams are aware of it. A lot of the players and agents are aware of it. And there's going to have to be a negotiation here, Justin. But the fact is that there is room, if they want, and they can agree, to go well past 92.5 to maybe 95 or 97 and not have it hurt the players where they hate the most,

which is escrow. Yeah, you can give Mitch 14 if you want, Kip, if it's 110. I'm going to tell you, Nick, I heard you last hour, and I had people saying, like, Nick's crazy. They think Mitch is going to have to take a bit of a pay cut. What do you – yeah, you're the insider. You tell us. I just wanted to see what your reaction would be when I said that. You're the insider. You tell us.

I just wanted to see what your reaction would be when I said that. He could take any haircut he wants. None of my business. I'm just telling you what I think. No, first of all, he's playing great. At the end of the day, he's going to decide because he's playing great. And he's doing nothing to hurt his value as a player. You know, I think this. I think if you look at some of these negotiations right now, Kaprizov, I think the Wild are just going to take the knee on Kaprizov and do whatever he wants.

But I think it's going to be a massive number. I think the Rantanen negotiation has been more challenging than Colorado hoped or wanted. So we'll see where that one goes. You know, the thing with Marner is, like, the higher the cap goes, like, we all know that Toronto considers Matthews the ceiling, right? And so, I mean, look, I think he wants to stay. I think they want him to stay. I'm just really curious to see what's the number listen

elliot is it more now just a formula of percentage that the players can always go back to the cap and say that you know i'm getting 16 of the cap or 15 and a half that's what i got before the caps moving up you just plug in the numbers, man. There's no negotiation. I'm just going to take the same percentage that, say, others have or I have in the past. Yeah, and you know what, Nick? I think that's exactly what happens. Like, that happened, you know, Dreisaitl did that. He took between 15 and 16 this year, and that's the big number.

The big one is McDavid, and I think that's 15.9, if I remember correctly. The other guys are all around, like and i think that's 15.9 if i remember correctly the other guys are all around like 15 to 15 3 um you know but the thing is now nick as we just talked about with you and justin we could be blowing past what that 15 is like if we're going up to 97 then into the hundreds and that's where the math is like i'm not good at math when i got into when i got into sports i was told i told people I'm not doing any more math. So people tell me.

But that's what the math is saying right now. And, you know, you look at it. It was McDavid 12-5. It was McKinnon 12-6. It was Matthews 13-2-5. It was Dreisaitl 14. And I think the teams are going to fight it. They're going to say, look, like, even if it is 15%, we're not sure.

Aside from McDavid, we want guys making $15, $16, $17 million, but people are going to try to argue for it. The thing is, I look at it again, when it comes to Marner is at some point in time, everyone's going to have to sit down at a table and say, you want to stay? Yes. We want you to stay? Yes. Okay, well, let's

stop with the macho bs and what's the real number and eventually that's going to happen um are there some owners around the league is this going to change the way the nhl looks i think a complaint from some people like myself has been that this flat cap has kind of made the league everyone's kind of the same right you can't have too many good players. Is this maybe the first time that we'll see some distancing of people being like,

I don't know if I want to pay to the cap and then some separation between the Yankees. And I don't know who doesn't spend in baseball, Tampa Bay, no idea. Pittsburgh. Sure. You know,

I'm Tampa Bay is a good one too. I it's possible. Like one thing here is there's a floor. So you have to get to the floor at least. So that's different than baseball. But there's no question it's possible. I think there is some worry about what that will do for the haves. That'll really make life even better for them.

You know, I think, Justin, that I'm curious to see if this is going to lead to any more debate on the different taxation area, because that could even make it a bigger weapon for the Floridas and the Tampas and the Nashvilles and the Dallases of the world. Like that could make it's going this year, there's a chance that the owners might have to pay the players money. Like the players may get more than 100% of their salaries, which is, I don't think that's happened in 15 years. So I think that's another layer about this. Would they rather write them a check if they have to, or would they rather just bump up the cap?

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, Elliot, and I think you said we just assume that it's 50-50 moving forward. My spider senses tell me that the league's not going for 50-50. They're going to shrink

the players' percentage. Well, maybe. I mean, the thing is you can always ask, right? It's a negotiation. You can always ask. But the only thing I'll say is this. I think Bettman, like all you can go by is Bettman's history. He comes out of the Board of Governors meeting in October,

and he says, I wouldn't mind announcing this before game one of the stanley cup final nick if their goal is to shrink that there's going to be no announcement before game one of the stanley cup final now maybe he sings a different tune when we get to florida next month we'll see what happens but nick you have been a big part of the Players Association when it's not been peacetime. This is very different. He wants a deal, and the players want a deal. The bigger they try to change things, the less chance there is of a deal.

Elliot, just one more. Just one more. If Gary went out of his way last season to go to winnipeg and it's and we're talking about a cap at mid 80s like what is what is a hundred or a hundred plus do for the winnipeg and keeping hockey in that market it's not easy uh i i don't think like but like, you know, hey, at some point in time, Nick, it's it's it's the name of the game, right? Like you you you have to spend a certain amount and the higher the revenues are in a cap system, the more you have to spend to the floor and the more you have to share the revenues with the players. Like that's just the way it is. You know what? I look at it as there's revenue sharing too.

That's there to help. I don't know. I mean, I don't have a good answer. I don't want to say that, oh, my God, this is the death knell for Winnipeg and the NHL. I don't want that because I don't believe that's true. But at some point in time, this is the system, and you've got to find a way to live with it.

It's crazy seeing the NBA cap, right, compared to where it once was the nhl and it does make you feel like you know the players are pretty underplayed paid compared to other professional athletes um let's talk a little bit about personnel uh the boston bruins flailing a little bit not sure if you've noticed uh some people around here like mckee are pretty happy about it um what are you hearing about boston are they just going to kind of go quietly into the night no I I don't think so like uh I I heard Justin that there was a bit of a meeting where the players just said look there's there's a lot of noise out there we can't control that what we control is that we got to stick together um I heard that they talked a lot about that like shut out the noise and stick together. I was really interested in Cam Neely's comments to the Boston Globe on the weekend where he said that we haven't been settled since training camp.

I think the Swayman negotiation had a lot of effect on just the overall organization. Like, you know, when you're in Canada here, you're used to your business being splashed all over the Internet and sports radio. And like you guys do a heck of a job in podcasts the bruins are a big team um but i think they were i don't think they liked how much their business was public this year and i think it had an up and down effect on their organization i still think there's some lingering effect on their organization and i just think they've been playing catch up since the beginning of the year they've looked around there's no question about that i think they've looked to see if there's something they can do to kind of breathe some life into their roster but it's hard to make deals right now look like nashville's trying

um they've tried to make deals chicago's trying to find someone to play with vedard i saw he was practicing today on the wing. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Well, getting ready for the Four Nations face-off, Elliot. Yeah. I mean, like, Boston's trying, but, guys, you know, at this time of year, plus also they just made a ton of changes. At what point in time do you have to stop making changes and let it all breathe?

Elliot, in our first hour, our boy sammy mckee was not happy about the leafs and their uh coyness over austin matthews injury of course you know going back to the spring you broke the news about willie kneelander having migraines right i mean where are you with uh you know teams needing to disclose i think honestly nick i think this is an even more different case because i think like like i don't want to get too much into that but the biggest challenge about that is that nylander wanted his privacy right which i Which I respect. Everybody wants their privacy, do they not? Yeah, but some guys are, you know, Nick, some guys are different than others. Some guys are like, okay, it got out.

And other people are, you know, they're harder than that. And I think Matthews is one of the most private people in the league when it comes to that kind of thing. And like last year year we found out that he had a wrist surgery that he kind of he that he didn't tell anybody about for a year i mean the Leafs knew but nobody else knew and you know he just he likes it that way so i think it's it's not you would have broke it if you knew it i did eventually we did eventually we did but i was just shocked that a player of his level could have that kind of surgery without anybody knowing about it. And so I think it's not only NHL level paranoia about injuries. It's also like the particular player. And Matthews is very, very private the one thing i'll say about this nick is that and i tell teams this all the

time all the time the the longer you go on in these kinds of situations the more you risk completely losing control of your ability to tell it and that's what happened last year with willie um you know the the leafs and newlander wanted to keep that one under a lid but eventually it just got to a point where they lost control of it and I would say that about Matthews here too I think they're doing this at Matthews request he does not want a lot of information out there but the longer it goes I think the more the risk is that they will lose control of the story. Elliot, the worst goal differential in the NHL this season belongs to the Pittsburgh Penguins. They just got a win in overtime against the San Jose Sharks to be, you know,

just ahead of Columbus in points percentage in their division. I just asked you about Boston going quietly into the night. What going on pittsburgh this is a strange year for them yeah but i i think justin the the i don't even know what to call it i don't even know to call it a rebuild or restock like i'll get my thesaurus out and i'll figure which one i i should use are they gonna keep the big names i i like the only? The only way Crosby's going anywhere is if he comes to them and says, you know what, I've had enough. And I don't see that happening now. Mulligan has basically said he's not going anywhere,

and that's the information I have. He's got, what he's saying publicly and privately is the exact same thing that what he's saying publicly is he doesn't want to go anywhere. Letang, Letang's a tough one like i think the injuries make make his contract um almost impossible to trade uh even if he wanted to go the one to me is going to be carlson because his money goes down next year and he's got a big bonus due at the beginning of July. And then I think he's only owed after that, I think he's only owed about

$10-12 million cash for the next two years. Well, you know what, Nick? By NHL standards, with a $97 million cap if we get there, it's not that much. But again, it's going to be up to Carlson. But that's the one I could see this summer is Carlson.

If he wants to. You've got to assume that, you know, we know Kyle Dubas signed a massive contract, Elliot. Seven years. There must have been discussed and known that there's a very good chance that this team, the wheels could fall off. I don't know if they ever thought it was this early or not,

but do you think Kyle covered himself a little bit with the Fenway group that now own the Pittsburgh Penguins that this could happen? And if it does, then I'm going to kick in this plan and, you know, I'm protected basically. Yes, 100%. But you know what, the one thing, Nick, is that I don't know that I'm, I'm, I'm protected basically. Yes. A hundred percent. And, but you know what? The one thing Nick is that I don't know that like, I think like the guys like Crosby,

I don't think they ever believe they're going to lose. Like even though they've missed the playoffs a couple of years in a row and they look like they're going to miss the playoffs this year, you're not going to be able to, he's, even if you tell him that we might rebuild do you think he believes it he's like no we're going to pull through this and i'm going to pull through this this is the first time that the penguins are really waving the white flag under him and he's never seen it before he's been told it could, but I'm not sure he ever believed it. He should believe it after 20 years.

I mean, he might believe it now, and we'll see what that's going to mean. Good? I'm good. All right. We'll let you go. What time's your hair appointment today? It's tomorrow. Check in with Gussie.

Thanks for doing this Ali great to have you on our show alright guys have a great week you too I like it

Thursday see you later see you bud he's going he's going on Thursday he does a good job that guy he does

he works his butt off too absolutely I like the cap going way up Ed that does help the Mabelers i like it with all due respect before we get together with all due respect like you know that austin or anyone wants their privacy it's like that's what they that's what these guys do they go and find out

yeah well i do remember was it was it simmons that found out he had COVID and then reported it and Matthews sassed Adam at a press conference? Yeah, that's right. I guess I don't really understand. I understand that everyone is different and entitled to their privacy on medical issues and all that, but I just, having been a hockey player. That happened, right? I didn't imagine that. I think it did happen.

That was like, you know. It's not like we're on national TV and radio. No, right. I think you do. We should have like a disclaimer, like not journalism somewhere on the show. So, dumb guy. I think on the surface, everybody can get excited about the cap going up. But there's just, there's like, it just won't be that easy for some clubs. We have clubs that don't make any money.

Okay. So while it's fantastic that you can say that your team's worth a billion dollars or a billion and a half or even two, it still doesn't help that day-to-day operations you are losing money and that doesn't sit well with those owners can't just take out a line of credit against your so so guess what's gonna happen they're gonna go back and they're gonna negotiate and they're going to ask the players to help them. You absolute dark cloud. You rainstorm of a human on this one.

Everyone's all excited about the peacetime deal and no one's contentious. It's going to be 50-50. Everyone's good. I've lived it. I know. You have tons of experience here. I've seen the way this thing works.

I remember the shows during the lockout of you and Matt just screaming at each other, much like our first hour today. It was very electric radio. And that's because I paid attention. Elliot, I sat in meetings. I know the way this thing works. I'll say this.

And if you think everything's hunky-dory because Gary says our revenues are six and a half or going to be $ billion dollars or are never been better never been this never been the s that is correct but it doesn't really help a few of our teams right now that are struggling including the winnipeg jets i will this. You have to be real careful with this NHL fan base who's been heard a couple of times before. Yes. And it's one thing to come out and say, we want to split revenue.

We want to go 50-50. That's it. Let's do 50-50 and off we go. Makes perfect sense. It's a whole other greedy, gross can of worms to come out and say, we want one more percent than them. Let's go 51-49. That, to me, is just, that would be like.

No, I think the players, it would be a huge win if they keep it 50-50. But I'm telling you, I think the league is going to go and say, we need two or three percent back. Yeah, and I understand how negotiating works. You don't come in and just say, you know, hey. You want to keep. All done. Yeah, yeah. Perfect, you want to keep your 32 teams. They need help.

And the owners, they need help. They, they need help. And all we hear is about teams lining up cities, lining up for a franchise. They are. Yeah. Good. Which again, take them is there's enough teams already. Get rid of a couple. It's just to join a club.

You joined a golf course. Feels good. It feels good, but you know. Shout out to Fraser. Does everybody in your family agree that it's worth it? That'd be a hard no. Worth it is... that's right but listen i hope i hope everything they're going to start negotiations next month i hope it falls into place they can get something done quietly to your point we've been hurt before big time and no one needs that can you find some common ground

keep this thing going because it's heading in a everything's going great listen almost seven billion dollar industry yeah we should when i started when i was in my prime we were excited at 1.75 yeah static There's money everywhere. If there's money everywhere and there's just how to divvy up the beautiful pie and they still grind about it, that's not going to sit well.

I think you could argue the more money there is, the harder they would grind. I think the easier it should be, but I see your point. Okay. Game time. It's game time.

Presented by Bet365. Visit the app to find out why it's ever ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19+. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Today, I'm going to look at some NFL futures. Because during our first segment where I so rudely blew past

the Bills' big-time win over the Kansas City Chiefs to talk about my beloved Argos winning the Grey Cup. Hold on. I can't stand you claiming the Bills. No, I didn't claim the Bills big-time win over the Kansas City Chiefs to talk about my beloved Argos winning the Grey Cup. Hold on. I can't stand you claiming the Bills. No, I didn't claim the Bills. No, but you do. You claim the Bills.

Yeah, I claim the Bills. They're the closest team. You come in here wearing an AFC East hoodie with all the teams on it and a Rob Lowe NFL hat. You got no NFL team, pal. I would say that I do like the Bills, and I like the Steelers. So I like those two teams a lot.

Anyways. Winner ties with Buffalo all the way i do like i nailed it uh but you mentioned it yesterday huge win for the for the chiefs i sort of heard the bills over the chiefs and now i'm looking at the afc futures for the buffalo bills and they have moved up to plus 275 behind the kansas city chiefs who are still the favorites at plus 210. Did that game yesterday do anything for you to believe that they could actually beat them in the playoffs? Because for me, I wish they had lost it. As a diehard Bills fan.

Why? Just plant the seed now. No, you can't. Well, they've beat them in the regular season before. You don't want to beat. You can't beat the Chiefs twice in one year. Lose to them early and then beat them late would have been how I thought of it, as a diehard fan.

Some other notables in there, the Ravens are plus 320, Steelers plus 900, and getting down the list here, Texans, Chargers, down to plus 1,400. The New York Jets are a cool plus 25,000, with yet another wonderful performance on their home field, losing to Anthony Richardson and the Colts. Beautiful performance. So that was just a quick look at the NFL futures because I wanted to talk about the Chiefs and the Bills a little bit more.

A great one for my Bills. That was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the decides to find out why it's never ordinary. Bet365 must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Okay, let's take a quick break here. And when we return, we'll get into a little uh rick talkett in vancouver

benching jt miller we've already seen stars benched earlier this season we got another one we'll listen to some comments from from talkett on that uh what else we got to talk about ovi and his hat trick i got some bedard thoughts too. We got Bedard thoughts. Logan Thompson. And we also got some Tyson thoughts as well. Yes. Who wants to hear it? Yes.

No, no, no. We got to discuss that. We got to discuss that. That and more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Hey, it's Matt Marchese. And I'm Mike Futa. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world. Weekdays at noon.

It's the Fan Hockey Show on Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're coming down the stretch on this Monday. This hour of Real Kipper and Bourne is brought to you by Bet365. Okay, you look at the Vancouver Canucks. On the surface, the record looks good. Yeah, fine. Right? Turn your mic on.

Okay, what? Nine, five, and three. Why do people feel like Rome is burning there right now? You know, expectations are a source of resentment, I've learned in my life. I say this with all the love in the world. You met Vancouver fans? It's a tough, I actually said to Kit before you were around there, Sam, like that might be as tough a market as there is in canada for sure toronto included yeah it's just louder because there's more but i don't know that it's

any more malicious or maybe not the word but losing a national at home ice ain't gonna help anything so we saw another benching rick tockett taking JT Miller out of the game with about, what, 14, 15 minutes to go. You okay with that? It's good? I know how you – I don't even have to ask you. If the coach feels like it needs to send a message, you send a message. But I will say, you know, Miller's not a guy, you know,

that you generally struggle to get emotionally engaged. And I feel like that often is like what a benching is about. Like you're not all the way committed. And I know that you feel like a coach only has so many bullets in a year. And we're kind of going a little, he was hard on him the other day in the media and you commented on that too. Listen, JT Miller, to your point is sometimes he can, in the past he's sometimes been his own worst enemy with his emotion and his

outbreaks. He's done a lot to win me over, over the past year and a half. Like since that break between, do we trade JT Miller? Do we trade Bo Horvat? Remember that? The contract conversation around JT Miller was like, that's one of the worst in the league there for a couple weeks. Like it was talked about.

Talk gets benched him before too. And it's gotten pretty good results, I think, coming off it. They seem to have a mutual respect. There seems to be something there. So you just kind of trust it. I think there's a way to send messages to your star players without completely needing to shut them right down. But this is what we've seen with montgomery we've seen

it with uh uh cooper in tampa bay like coaches aren't afraid i know we're gonna get to the audio in a sec here but like you know sometimes do you ever just feel like like the coach may feel genuinely i'm not this guy's not playing well. I'm not getting enough out of him tonight. I just think I have a better chance of getting the next goal with someone else. You know, and I know that you have to be careful with that, but sometimes, is it always a personal, emotional statement? And I think the answer here is probably yes.

But does it have to be? Can you not just say, hey, I thought I'd get one from Kiefer Sherwood. Okay, let's get Tarket's thoughts. There's two separate clips. Talks thoughts. The first one is short. Clip one, please, Derek. JT didn't play much in the third.

What can you say about him right now? This is one of the guys I thought couldn't get us back in the game. Okay, and clip two, please, Derek. We know that JT has dealt with something since the preseason is that a factor in his ice time tonight no i love when the media gives the coach outs and the coach is like i don't want an offer pal i look no no but they've had how about new they've had

some bad losses at home right edmonton was a bad loss. I think Vegas was a bad loss. I think this could be up there with the worst. Yeah. It's funny. The Canucks are 6-1 on the road and 3-4-3 at home. You know, and you had Todd come out and apologize to the fans the other day about, you know, basically what's sorry for the performance. So, yeah, it's getting emotional there, which is funny because, again,

they're pretty comfortably in third spot there in the Pacific. I think they're a better team than L.A. They're only two points behind them with two games in hand. Like, they're all right. Minus one goal differential worries me a bit. Their opponent on Saturday night was the blackhawks watched most of that game slight bedard concern for me oh yeah yeah i just didn't have just zero impact in that game like i just i don't know do you think it's just the lack of guys to play with or no i

mean he's they're they They suck. They're brutal. We thought that they were maybe signed some guys and they would maybe take a little bit of a step, but I don't know, man. I just haven't seen much from them. It's funny when you're Kyle Davidson, you're like, we need some guys who are better, and you're just getting anyone who's better that you can overpay a bit,

and it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to help you a whole ton. My one connection. Yeah, the roster's an issue. Not a strong enough roster around him and then the ask right out of the gate to play 18 19 minutes and then he got hurt and then it's like the oh he's gonna come back and score 40 like but he's down this year like his ice time is significantly down than it was last year like it feels like they're trusting him less. He was 16-48 on Saturday night. He's a dash two that night, dash one the night before,

dash one, dash two, dash one. He's on the ace and they're bad. He's going to be a dash all year. But you'd like to see, we saw it lots of times last year where he's got the pop, he shoots it hard. Watching that game was depressing for me. I'm like, this guy was supposed to be in the conversation four-nation face-off.

Like, he's not even close. No way. He's supposed to be a generational type of guy. And I was so against this conversation. And watching this year, it's shaken me a little bit. Sophomore slump, I know it's a classic thing, but, boy, you'd like to see a bit more. You know, it's...

I'm trying to think of the last rookie to come in. Who's the last rookie that came in and really lit it up? I just think it's a hard, hard league, and we're seeing guys take more time to get there. Obviously, Slavkovsky's taking time. Shane Wright's playing in the American League. And even Lafreniere took a while. It took, what, four years before you started to see it here?

I think it's tough. To the point Kipper is about to make, and I'll just make it for him, none of those guys had the hype of Bedard. Not even close. It's degrees of hype, right? He had the big hype. I know we've had this conversation a while ago, and I know he's a really good player,

and some years he's going there's some night uh some years he's gonna put some big numbers up but i just don't know if he's gonna be a very very good hockey player or if he's gonna be a really special one and right now i think strength is an issue right and uh i don't know in maybe two or three years he's he's going to be that that guy that is just destined like a sydney crosby or a mario lemieux or yeah to your point not a lot of those guys find it to that level in year three or four right like usually by year two you're like oh man he's already uh there a... There's a bit of a breakthrough. Yeah.

Marner on his wing will help. What's that? I said Marner on his wing will help. You got it. Oh, yeah. Would Chicago pay Mitch? Probably. Oh, God, yeah.

Ovechkin? Hold on. First thing I should say, Canucks are 29th in the NHL so far in strength of schedule, so they've had a very easy schedule. I think that's part of the reason people are down on them. Anyway. What's the least on that? The least strength of schedule is 20th.

Okay. So, fairly easy. Highest scoring team in the league. Who? Capitals? I don't know. Oh, God. Is that right?

Winnipeg. Take a look. If you have it in front of you, could you just tell me? It's mind-boggling. Okay, I'm going to now. It's mind-boggling. We got Carolina, New Jersey, Washington, Winnipeg. What's Winnipeg at?

It's Winnipeg. 74. And the Capitals? 72. But I can do a goals per game if that helps you. That doesn't matter. But the mere fact that washington is right there actually first in the nhl washington goals four per game 4.24 goals thank you yeah it's that team last year

we looked at them and i laughed i laughed they were hurrahful they were how do you go from hurrahful to highest goal per game i don don't know. I mean... Explain that to me. Ovi... Just Ovi? Ovi ate really healthy this summer. Dylan Strom?

How did Ovi get so much better again? Protas? Protas? Did I pronounce that right? Protas? You once told me that if he's good enough,

we'll have to learn. I am going to learn. That's a great win for them. Like, to go into Vegas... Connor McLaughlin has 11 goals. He's Connor McDaviddavid and like and he's been good with pierre luke dubois and dubois has not been great right no he's been well the numbers aren't suggesting he's great but he's been good your boy chikrin shooting in the net once in a while

that helps chikrin and matt roy who hasn't even played, are in the lineup now. Carlson, they've backed off needing Carlson to do everything. They just seem to have a good balance right now. Let me lodge my official skepticism of the Washington Capitals here and just tell you that I'm skeptical of them. The bubble could break at any second. That's what you're saying. Yeah, I'm not coming on here today

saying I'm like a full believer of the Caps or anything. So they've been very good. You know, teams do that from time to time. Logan Thompson's been unbelievable. He's played himself on to Team Canada as the third goalie, dare I say it. Team Canada watchers out there. I'm really scared for your Team Canadaada goalie scenario cam talbot's

the starter boys like he's got the bet they're all they're all just cam talbot's the start he's got he's having the best year go home he's got the best numbers five starts this year i mean whoever wins their last eight a game like i whoever wins their last game i know that's it is the goalie have you ever seen those baby races they do at intermission of a football game? Like, they're all just, like, kind of going different directions. It's like, will someone just go straight? Someone. Cross the line.

But Ovechkin. Aiden Hill. Jordan Bennington. It's real now. It's real. He's 29 away, boys. It's real. 29 away from the record.

Yeah. He needs to, like. No, he's getting it. No, like, if he plays in the National Hockey League from now. Yes. Like, he needs to go play No, he's getting it. No, like if he plays in the National Hockey League from now, yes. He's getting it this year. He's getting it this year. This year? For sure. Yeah. No way. I'm with him. Yeah, absolutely. I'm with him.

He's got, he's just got that look. He has 29 goals to tie, I think we said. Yeah. No, to get it, it's 20. 29 to pass. Yeah, it's 29 to pass. He's getting the holes again. The lanes and the puck and the seams and all of that. I'm scheming for ways it can not happen.

Did you see the Petrangelo play? I think Petrangelo wants him to get it. My God. He was coming down the wing. Backhand. Back straight. He's not passing. Don't play the pass.

If only we had some tape to watch. This guy's shooting it in. He's not passing. The Caps are near the bottom of the league. Expected goals for a few. I'm scared about that. What are they in? Actual goals?

Number one. Hey, I had a quick thing. Point to Delta. I had a quick thing. I know this may piss you guys off that I'm going to bring this up. But a little quick ref talk for you from the game on Saturday night. Oilers leaves. Yeah. How the hell do they not call Connor McDavid for slashing the stick away?

Okay. Stop it. Did you watch? I don't know. I had to watch. I had to watch. I had to watch John Tavares in a game against the Red Wings on Hall of Fame. The exact same thing.

Why did he drop his stick, Tavares? Because Connor threw it out of his hands again. He committed four penalties in one play, and the refs were looking right at him. They're like, play on, play on. You can't slash away a guy's stick. That's interference. That's in the rule book. You can't do it.

And he did it in the slot, at least with a tying goal. Could have cost him a point. It was absurd. Jesus. It was absurd. Why does Tava going try to get a stick because that point because you're not why he actually appealed to the rest why why do you go out and go tackle somebody get a penalty before you give up the takeaways from edmonton toronto

that was absurd it was absurd it was a clear penalty they blew it and it could have cost at least a point could have cost your playoff spot quit your crying it's absurd but you're crying you want something to cry about he gave the golden boy one penalty they couldn't give him another one Blew it. And it could have cost at least a point. It could have cost them a playoff spot. Quit your crying. It was absurd. Quit your crying. You want something to cry about? They only gave the golden boy one penalty. They couldn't give him another one. You want to cry on something? Let's cry. How do you get the, what is it, 18 minutes, 20 minutes back from watching Mike Tyson and the YouTuber?

That's actually a cry event. Jake Paul. Logan? Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Jake. Logan? Jake. Jake. Jake.

Sorry. Paul James. Seriously. When I saw Mike Tyson's ass, that's when I said, this is ridiculous. I have to say. Okay? That was an electric moment at the bar. I was out with all my softball buddies, and we all hooted and hollered when that happened. The boys were hooting and hollered when that happened. The boys were hooted and hollered. When I'm staring at a 60-year-old ass

that looked no different than the one that I, than what I see at my men's locker room at Rosedale, I'm like, shut the TV off. You know, it was one of those things where, you know, it's like you're watching an old dog climb up the stairs and you're like, God, just like, what am I doing? I watched him walk out and I should have put my life savings on Jake Paul. When he walked out of there,

I was like, oh my God. Listen, respect Mike, go get that check, whatever. You know, you gotta do what you gotta do. So was it 40-20? Yeah, you got 20, I guess. Tyson should have got the 40 and the other guy should have got the 20. You know, like got the 20.

You know, like at the end. You can't do that without Tyson. Right. Jake Paul doesn't even want to hit him at the end because he's like, oh, this is not going to be good. It's like, was this a competition? And you know what the worst part was? I did bet on Jake Paul, by the way. Good for you.

Yeah, thank you. The fight before, those two women was the most unbelievable. It was a war yeah they punched each other's faces off yeah and then it was like we gotta go watch john jones kick me oh yeah yeah he paced ribs through his liver that was by far the worst fight of the weekend not even close yeah that was paul's last fight no oh my god he's gonna cash another check no he's not no one will ever watch him again he's fighting up old tough guys. He might be next, man.

Who's going to watch it moving forward? Listen, if he fights Conor McGregor or someone that I think can actually knock him. Conor ain't getting in the ring with him. He'll fight the next washed up guy. He loves a paycheck. Everyone wants to see this guy get knocked out. That's exactly it. Plus, he's in this contract that you can't do it.

You think he can fight, though? Really? Who's that? McGregor? No, Paul. Yeah. No, he's fine. He's a big, strong guy.

Oh, gosh. But a boxer boxer picks him apart. Oh, wow. A guy under prime beats the wheels off him, but he fights 80-year-olds, so that's how he wins. I saw a meme his next opponent was Biden. I saw someone lowering the rim and pretending I'm LeBron. Exactly. Okay, enough. All right, we got to go. Thanks, Elliot, for joining us. I saw someone lowering the rim and pretending I'm LeBron exactly

thanks Elliot for joining us we're back tomorrow on Real Kipper and Bourne have a great one everybody