Real Kyper & Bourne - Why Gavin McKenna is Going First + Robertson Says No to Kraken

Episode Date: June 26, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee begin their NHL Draft day show discussing if Gavin McKenna is still the front runner for the 2026 first overall pick over Ivar Stenberg, how McKenna can potentially impact the next chapter for the Toronto Maple Leafs if selected, before shifting their attention to Matthew Knies trade rumours and a potential three-way deal which involved Dallas Stars' Jason Robertson. The guys welcome in Sportsnet hockey analyst and Pro Hockey Group's Jason Bukala (16:35) to weigh in on the Leafs' first pick, how teams should temper expectations for draft prospects entering the league, concerns with Viggo Björck's size, and what it says about the Kraken franchise getting turned down by big free agents. To wrap up the hour, Nick, Justin and Sam chat about the Colorado Avalanche's recent moves, including Valeri Nichushkin to the Columbus Blue Jackets for three picks, as well as the Ottawa Senators acquiring the rights to Maple Leafs' goaltender Samuel Ersson for a fifth-round pick in the 2027 NHL Draft.  The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Right back at you with two hours of the real Kipper and Born show. Double. Double your pleasure. Wasn't there a commercial before you guys were born about? No, I remember double mint gum. Okay. It's good gum. We are live and in color on Sports Net 590, the fan.

Sports Net 360, SportsNet Plus, and all the wonderful platforms. See, I'm not even wasting time to mentioning all the platforms. What I will mention is this hour of Real Kippron Bourne brought to by Bet365. Nick Kiprio's, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, Jake the Snake Shultz, Derek Brandeo, Chris Gallagher, here for two hours. And Monday, I think. And Wednesday and Thursday and Friday? I don't know. Okay.

Two hours today? Okay. Two hours Monday coming off of the weekend of the draft. Okay. Two hours on Canada Day, which I believe were one to three to give way to the Jay's game at three. Okay. And then Thursday, 2 to 4 p.m. Eastern, and then Friday 1. Gotcha.

Okay. A lot. Like, you know, the problem with doing two hours now is after we're doing one, it's like, ah, that feels long. We'll see. In the meantime, stuff happens, it won't. We'll do our best to prepare you for tonight's NHL draft seen exclusively on Sportsnet. Coverage gets started 6.30 p.m.

Are you going to head over there after this show? Yeah. I'm kind of dressed like a putz because I'm going to do that. Dressed nicely? Well, like kind of too nice for this. Oh, yeah. You know? But like not nice enough for there.

I was trying to straddle the line. Talking to a guy who kind of knows what I do and he's like, oh, what do you wear on TV? Like he doesn't really know. He doesn't really know. You wear like a shirt or a baseball hat. Usually a baseball hat. For you after the show, the good news is like I don't anticipate anybody on the QEW.

Should be fine. Should be fine. Friday at 430. Get a chopper to get you. You're going to be lucky to get there in the seventh round tomorrow. You don't understand how much I like just sitting in my car. Because I don't commute. I don't have a commute.

So like my kids aren't there. I put on an audio book and a bag of sticks. Audio book. Uncontent. No. Do not admit that on our show. Please. Sorry, Kip.

Three hours of hollow notes straight through. Yeah, now we're talking. Okay. Forgone conclusion. McKenna will be a Toronto Maple Leaf officially today. Well, it was, and then at 158, you went, Ivers Denberg? And I went, what? I don't know.

I'm just asking them. I'm just mentioning it. There are a few people out there that are suggesting that there could still be a surprise out there. You don't buy it, do you? Well, I don't. I don't buy it. But I do think that the people, so Jason Demares, Craig Button, the people who are suggesting these things. They don't know nothing.

They know things. They know people. They're connected to the NHL. And it would be really strange to wake up the day of the draft and just be like, I don't think it's going to be McKenna. But it would kind of be consistent with, since John Chek has been named

General Manager, that he's throwing a ton of stuff on the wall to see what sticks. And if he's shopping a potential, it would be out of curiosity to see what it could possibly turn into? Is it maybe...

You're talking about the first overall pick? Yeah. Anything. Anything. Anything. Anything's possible. No. Trading the first overall pick is possible? What else are Craig Button and Demer's suggesting, implying? Well, that they might pick Stanberg or they might pick Chase Reed or Verhoff or someone. And not, and not, if you're doing that, you're, please tell me you're, you're flipping something and you're, you're going to, you're doing it to gain an additional asset or two.

I feel like we shouldn't spend 30 more seconds on this. I'm telling you right now. No, I'm, I'm okay. Gavin McKenna is a minus 20,000 favorite on Bet 365 to be taken first overall by the Toronto. Okay. Tonight at whatever time from the Penn State University, the Toronto Police select Gavin McKenna, No, I have no, any doubts that that's exactly what we're going to hear. We can talk about it if you want.

You can talk about something else is going to happen, but that's, would you feel, would you feel better for yourself or hundreds and thousands of Lee fans out there if McKenna was just more of a clear cut, like not even debatable? You think he is. There's no debate. I don't, he is. He is. He is.

He is. He is. He is. He is. He is head and shoulders above. everybody else in this draft. He's not coming in with the clout of a Sidney Crosby

or any other can't miss first overall pick. You mean he's not coming in with the cloud of a top five player in the history of the game? No, maybe not. Like, I think I've made my point very clear the second that number 12 ball came up, his stock has crashed,

everybody's taken away from him. It's just it is what it is. It's been over-discessed. People... You're convinced that you are getting more Pat Kane than you are Alexei Lafranier. Yeah, I am. I'm convinced, like, this guy, all the metrics in scoring in college line up with all these guys that have just come out,

similar to Celebrini, similar to other guys that have played in college. Like, he's can't miss to me. And we're going to have books on in 10 minutes who's going to come on and explain about Stenberg. He's going to say, could miss. Could miss, sure. But every mock. Nobody said that about others. First round picks.

Couldn't miss. Yeah, but like. Chain writer Slavkovsky were locks to you? Would you be saying this if, I don't know, Canucks had the first overall pick? They weren't. I just, I think a lot of this has to do with the Leafs. But anyways.

A seed of doubt. People having fun with the Leafs and the seed of doubt. Correct. He scores 100 points in the NHL at some point. 100%. I have no doubt. There's just no doubt in my mind. Like, I feel, to be honest with you,

I think that we've talked about it so much and that people have talked about Gavin McKenna and all this stuff. There's a word they're not going to expect we need. I think we're underrating the impact that Gavin McKenna is going to have on this franchise. All right. I think he is,

until he went to college and had a slow start to his year, he was looked upon as the next generational guy. He was scoring at the same pace as Badaar, scoring at the same pace as guys did in junior. Like he was the next guy, he goes there, is a slow start. People get off the dissent. I think the impact he's going to have on the franchise

is being totally underrated by a lot of people. We'll get into this much deeper with Jason Bukla, pro hockey group. SportsNet does a terrific job as one of our top scouting directors. I think he is our top scouting director. Is he? Yeah, he's the top dog. All right.

Right? I don't know anybody else. Well, I don't know what a title we're giving Sammy Cause, but... Assistant? I don't know. I don't know what their titles are. We make them up as we go. Yeah.

So today, things have happened. Are you surprised at the, I don't know, not the lack of things happening, about the pace of things. Like the Robertson thing felt like it got close. That was involving Matthew Nyes. Where did they get close? Well, when they agreed to the terms of a deal and he denied declined to extend in Seattle. I don't understand for one second.

the chain of events here. Why would you start negotiating between Seattle and Dallas? And it was three first rounders, including the seventh. Wasn't there a deal with Nyes involved as well? I think it's, if this happens, then this could happen. Okay. But it's, no, there's nothing. Okay.

There's nothing. Unless. Nothing on Nyes or nothing? on nine eyes is on the outside looking in and then the leaps are on the outside looking in it's like if if we can get this deal done then then we'll talk yeah right because we have interest in that seventh pick overall right i don't understand how you can go and negotiate a deal without knowing first if the guy would ever go like that's your first conversation not negotiate a deal negotiating a deal between Dallas and Seattle.

Totally disagree. Explain. Well, to me, it's like if every time you were going to consider negotiating a trade with someone, you went to a guy and said, would you go there if we got a deal? Would you go there if we got a deal? You don't even know if you could reach a deal. So what's the point in bringing it to them until you have something you know could happen? What's the point if you don't know if the guy would even think about going to Seattle?

What is the point? Call the agent, call the player and just say, Seattle? Yeah. But if you call them and go, hey, Winnipeg, and then they go, why, you're going to trace to Winnipeg, and then you call Winnipeg and you can't even get a deal done so it was a pointless call anyway. It's a pointless call if he goes,

not a chance I'm going to Seattle. And that's what happened. Yeah. Okay, 15 million, 16 million, 18 million, I'm not going. I'm not going. This is actually starting to look tough for Robertson because it's like. No, it's not.

It's not. We're married to the fact, that these guys are picking their spots. This is the new behavior. He's one of many now. He's just one. This is just the norm for stars. They just get to.

Is his agent? Do we know? Andy Scott. Okay, yeah. I think it's, you know, we've just heard that he doesn't want to go to Seattle and he didn't want to, there was somewhere else, too, that they were, that had interest, that he was like, no, no. And worse is that, like,

you're Jason Bauderil right now and through all these reports in the last, I don't know, a few months, including the trade deadline, Jordan Kairu didn't want to come, Robert Thomas didn't want to come, Panarin didn't want to come, and now Robertson doesn't want to come.

How was all this gotten out? How is this helping? How is this helping Seattle when their fan base are going, are we a bunch of losers? Nobody wants to go to Seattle. Who's putting this out there? Is it Seattle trying to defend themselves?

Hey, we're trying here? That's a good question. Because it looks really bad. Really bad. And hey, I put out a tweet yesterday. I was like, I like Seattle. You know, as a kid, we used to go to games at Safeco. Beautiful.

You know, you go down to the water. It's gorgeous. But I put out a tweet, I like Seattle. I've never received more messages from people being like, hey, where the players actually arrive and go to and from the rank, it is a tough look. Dangerous, very dangerous area. Yeah.

And they're like, it is not. feel like a place that people go experience the Pacific Northwest when you go visit. I love Seattle too for the three days I was there. Yeah. And also this, though, you look at the franchise and it's like, okay, if they were winning, if they were competitive, if they had a future, maybe I'd think about it. But it's like your house is going to be really expensive. The team doesn't have much of a future.

This is kind of a tough look. I mean, think about the difference and perception between the last two expansion franchises. Vegas comes in. They're now the team that every guy tries to go and run and play. there and this you know Seattle has a similar tax situation although I've been reading about a millionaire's tax that 2028 like I'm not a tax guy but I've been reading stuff about that it's not hard to figure out that but this just like no one's going to want to go from that millionaire's tax it's 10% on every million dollars that's a lot but I just have a million

I've just finished the point I can't believe the difference of perception between those two teams where Vegas nails the entry, the expansion draft, does it right. We've joked about Seattle how they were just like didn't treat themselves to one star that entire time.

We're gonna, defense and goal tending. Like Teresanko and the machine and all those guys at that time that were a little better anyways. They're in a tough spot. Like they're immediately, are they the most irrelevant franchise right now?

Like, yep, to your point about this millionaire's tax or whatever and you said, ah, it's half million bucks if it's five million bucks. But like they're offering way, above and beyond, they're offering to cover that and more. And people still don't want to go there. No, no. So, you know, there's some cities in this league where you're like. They don't seem like a very sound like management group.

It doesn't sound like constantly everybody's on the same page. It's just, you know if Robertson is going there, he's just taking the money and running. And he is now looking at his next contract as his last contract. And doesn't want to go there and lose for the next three years. And then maybe it looks better. It's just, like I said, they could offer them 18 and it's a hard no. By the way, I do appreciate that. You know, hey, I'm going to make nice money wherever.

I don't want to live there. I get it. I mean, where is he going to go? Can I take some wild guesses or no? Somebody mentions St. Louis with all their first round picks. Yeah, and I think he turned that down too, maybe. Yeah, he didn't want to extend there. I mean, is it, let me take a guess.

Oh, Vegas, Florida, Carolina, Minnesota. Like, what's, I don't know. It's funny here in Carolina. I just, I don't. And Dallas isn't too happy these days, but, you know, I'm just looking at the way sometimes these things play out and I don't know if it's denial

or they just don't want to deal with it a lot earlier but I'm watching Dallas right now with Robertson and it's like Martner all over again and it's like oh now they're scrambling like the Leafs were scrambling right I guess you think that they should have just had it done sooner.

It's not old school anymore where some of these general managers are like, I'm the boss, I'm in charge. Well, you just sit there and wait. No, it's not like that anymore. How do you feel about, you know, sounds like Robertson wants like 14 million or something like that? They want to just cap them at 12 with Ranton. And he doesn't want that.

And they've come out with. another number and they're like, no, you got to, you got to give us another offer, you know, the agent goes, the, he's not, zero, zero leverage. It just delays a year possibly, but he's going to sign a one-year deal. He'll go to Arb, get a one-year deal at $9 or $10 million and then walk out the door for free. So he's got all the leverage. Sounds like they have some there. They can do that. Bit of breaking news from Frege that Olin Zellwager is being traded to Buffalo for

Anton Wahlberg and the 45th pick in the draft. I tell you, I love that for Buffalo. They're like, we just went and got Bowen Byram. We just went and got the younger Bowen Byram. That's who I think you hope Zellwiger could become. I know he's not there yet. But he's an offensively talented guy

with some upside, a little undersized. Maybe a generous review of Zellwiger, but... 22 years old, had 22 points last year in 76 games. They just don't use them, right? that whole played three playoff games at a golden assist uh yeah 22 years old 510 193 all right let's welcome my man jason bookie buccla coming to us from buffalo pro hockey group sports net NHL scouting director

buddy are you wearing one of those scarfs shut off geez is that an ascot books buddy you know i feel like i'm i feel like i'm sitting in one of those you know the football players to wear those extra helmets on the outside of the helmet. I feel like I'm sitting in one of those right now. I'm watching. And I can't think about the millionaire. The professor and Mary Ann.

No, you got the millionaire look going right now. I'm not doing the top button. You're driving me crazy. Is that one of those full wedge golf shirts? Those are nice. Is that what that is? Yes, it is. Good call by you.

Good call. Okay. So we're just, we're spitball. calling here on the Leafs and McKenna. It's a done deal, Sammy says. There's no second. There's no gap. He's the man.

And the Leafs like to keep a few people guessing, but they can't be making anyone guess on this. Can they? No, it's a done deal. Signs, sealed, and delivered it as far as I understand here in Buffalo. And get on. I mean, it's fine, right? Like, there's a 1A and there's a 1A at the top.

of the draft class. It seems right now like they've made the choice. And they've gone sort of the Mitch Marner route, if you will, to assist the other people at the top of their lineup. Because McKenna's going to come right in, boys. Like he tested very, very well at the Combine. And his character analysis, I have to, like, I was born a year, you were there, buddy. Like, I, you know, I wasn't mean or anything like that.

I was just honest, right? And he was great. So this is. it's a done deal in my estimation unless I'd be shocked if it goes another way tonight books one of the things we hear about the least is like trying to trade back into that top 10 to get one of those d and that pack of d seems to include verhoff and smiths and carrels and rudolph read are they but we're talking about them like they're all the same is it is there much of a differentiation between those guys or is like just get one of those guys and you're

probably okay no there is actually a borner he's So, like, Smith's for me at his size and the way that he plays a game, his floor is higher than the other guys. But his ceiling offensively is not as high as the other guys. Daxon Rudolph would be in the middle of that mix there, and he's going to be more of a two-way. Despite his offensive metrics this year, I actually think Chase Reed planes out to be a more aggressive offensive

player at the NHL level than even Daxon Rudolph. So there are some differences there. You know, the – but they're all top. pairing guys potentially so i mean pick your poison that's the thing right it's just that they're going to be different uh albert smiths will end up uh complimenting uh a player like a zane perak for example in in in in calgary you know because of the way that he approaches the game and the way he plays the game so um yeah if they can sneak into that top 10 somehow they're going to get a guy i think they would prefer a righty borne if they could like all things being equal they would

they would prefer going after that curious to see where bear hop goes and if it's starts to drop, curious to see on the floor and live action, if some of the phones start ringing and there's some trades just because lists are starting to get into an area where they're like, geez, I really value that guy and I'm going to invest an extra asset to make it happen. Bucks, I just want to go back to McKenna for a split second here. And just in terms of the upside and you hope that it's maybe a Pat Cain scenario here, right? He's got that high-end skill. If you went back a few years ago with Alexei Lafranier

and where he was targeted as a number one pick and where analytically he was or where the the scouting reports were and where he is today where was the falloff or the danger of overselling him as the man? Lefrenier? Yeah. So first of all, I don't know that

people in my fraternity would openly admit it, but I do think that there's a somewhat of a bias in regards to results in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League, especially at that time compared to some of the other leagues in relation to value of opponents. So you really have to mine more and more information. And what I mean by that is that you want to find out for scoring metrics where he's scoring the most amount of his points. Is it against the top half of the league? Is it on home ice? Is it on the road, for example? And there's more to unpack in the Quebec League when it comes to that. When we're talking about a player like a McKenna or a Stenberg, you know, these guys, these two players,

they're not going to be Macklin-Selabrini. They're not going to be Connor Bedard. I want people to be, I want them to understand that. And I've heard it bantied around that, well, McKenna, you know, he's going to be a hundred-point guy in the NHL. He could very well be a hundred-point guy in the NHL. but how many of those guys existed this year, guys? Seven. So how can we put that on an 18-year-old

that he's going to definitely be that despite his scoring metrics? Think back to when you were in junior hockey kipper. Some of the guys that came through and scored a ton in junior hockey and then they got to the National Hockey League and they had to reinvent themselves. You know, there's lots to unpack that way. But Lafremier, you know, this is whoever goes first tonight, assuming it's McKenna, even at Stenberg,

even at Mahaltra, even at Molltra, even at Bjork if he's four. Those guys, to me, are better players than Lafrenia. It's funny watching some of these draft boards, like Vigo Bjork's name. You have like the analytics, a very certain crowd. Like, give me Vigo Bjork because he's a smaller dude. How confident are you that I think he's 5'9,

that he'll be able to be an effective guy because he's pretty much in the top 10 on every list I've seen? Yeah, well, guys, there's prospects who come into the National Hockey League that are small and play small. You know, like we see some of those guys, right? You're small, you play small. You're darting.

You get up and down the ice. You got all kinds of skill, but you never get to the middle. And it's a problem, right? That's not the problem with this kid here. Like, he is short, Forney, but he doesn't play small, if that makes sense. Thank you. 5-9, buck-81. Can play the middle, can play the wing.

And at the pro level or even on the world stage with his peer group, he's a bumper or the flank on the power plate. He can kill penalties. He tracks up and down the ice way. quicker than most of this draft class so you know what he's got to the caveat is he's full of you know what in vinegar this kid's got a

massive personality and to a man and again like you were there to see some of these Swedes I was really happy that you could be there this group of Swedish prospects coming through there's no you can see how come or why they've been so successful they're competitive

they're dialed in they're super mature I have zero reservations about Vigo Bjork this guy's got top line upside. You're watching and listening to Jason Buckela, pro hockey group, sports nets, former NHL scouting director.

Bookes, we saw Chicago give up the fourth. We hear that the Leafs are still interested in trying to get in maybe a top 10, top 12 on a secondary move. How realistic is it? We're going to see some more shuffling here before the show tonight.

Yeah, very realistic. I mean, you know, it's a little different here, Kipper, because it doesn't have that convention feel where I'm running into a lot of my colleagues because they're in their war rooms all over the place in different cities. So you don't get as much of a feel,

but I can tell you, without giving you names, that just I was at a conference here speaking, but in the last hour and a half, I've had four different scouting directors just reach out to me to try and pick my brain on my list and some of my players, just, you know, casual conversation,

which tells me that it's ongoing. Like it is still, what are we? 2.30 in the afternoon on Friday. We're four hours away from roll calls, call and there's still a lot of conversations being had. So I think there's a real opportunity here for more movement. I really do believe that that's happening. So when you are part of a scouting team and your team is trading picks,

I mean, how is it change on draft day? Like, what does your day look like today as your department is being consulted? What do we think of this guy? What does this pick value have? I imagine it's a busy day for the scouts. hugely busy day but i would say this borney that the the body of work that you've put into creating your list at this point in time when it comes down to value and trade that's when uh the majority of my staff exit the room because you don't have time to have too many uh fingers in the in the soup jar

you know what i mean like it's got to be it's me the gm the director of pro scouting uh sometimes the owner, player development for sure, like Brian McKay, Chris Pronger, Roberto Luongo, whatever the case may be, especially if they've just exited the league recently where they might have some perceived value on if there's somebody else involved in the trade, you know what I mean?

Like an actual body from another NHL team. So yeah, it's the most fun part of it in a weird sort of way because you've already done all your work. You've got your list. You feel like you have a strategy in place. But now on top of that, you also feel like you might be to make your team even better by, by, you know, making a trade today one way or the other.

Like, let me give you a really quick example. Like the St. Louis Blues, okay, they own 11, 15, 16, and 29 today. So far, I haven't looked at my phone recently in case anything's happened. But when you look at those draft slots at that spot, like I've got them taking the, the Ruck twins back to back at 15 and 16, which is an overpay for Liam, the winger, by a little bit. It's a big overpay for Marcus, but you're reverse engineering the strategy because you're probably going to have seven or eight guys

on your draft list still remaining, where they're going to probably fall to 29. Now, what's the caveat to all that? What happens if you package 15 and 16 and do something different and move up again into the top? Like, what about the Buffalo Savers or something? So I'm just trying to, that's a lot to kind of digest, but that's the fun part of it.

You got all the work done. Now you have value assessment. Now you can get creative. Lots of talk about Seattle. willing to give up three first rounders to get Jason Robertson under contract. We know that didn't happen. You mentioned St. Louis

with all their first round picks potentially could be in play here. Maybe they pitched Robertson, maybe he turned them down. No confirmation on it, but that's a bit of a feel right now going on. Boy, I'll tell you, like that,

that's very concerning to me, Kipper. I got to say, like, if I'm a Seattle Cracken executive or a member of their staff, like what that tells you when you offer 120 sheets to a player and he says no to you, like, where in the world are we in the National Hockey League when you're starting to throw around that kind of money? And that tells me that there's a belief outside of the organization, that they're not so sure where the Seattle Cracken are going as an organization. It's more than just the Benjamins. And, you know, when you start tossing around three firsts or, you know,

if the St. Louis Blues today start tossing around three firsts or whatever, and you start getting nose from free agents, times are changing a little bit in this league. But let me ping pong this one back to you guys because I'm perplexed here. Like, why would Robertson, if it's about winning, why wouldn't you just stay in Dallas for 12 and a half? Like, I understand Ranton is at 12, but even if they give you 13, why don't you just stay? I bet he does. 13 is a cap issue with Sagan coming back on the books. Books.

It's an issue. Okay, so, okay, so then, then you know what? How much is enough? And why don't you go shorter term because the cap's going to go up again? Like, you know, well, it's not, but you don't think it will. It's just absolutely not happening. He's right now, unless he does a sign-in trade, he's getting eight, otherwise he's getting seven.

So there's going to be money somewhere in there. Like those are big, big numbers. Also, wouldn't you rather move Sagan of the two? Sagan's got no move. Yeah. Well, I don't know, man. Like this is like, I'll tell you the solution. I love Jason Robertson as a player, but this one feels like it's, you know, it's like a, it's like a grass fire.

And how does he go back now? If it doesn't happen, how do you go back after all this if whatever happens happens? Like, what I can tell you for certain that this is not, this is not comfortable for Jim Nill and the Dallas stars, they don't operate like this. And offering Robertson maybe half a million or three quarters of a million more than Rantanin, doesn't sit well with them either. No, because they've already placed the value on that. And, hey, do you guys not feel like we're going to start to get into that category too?

Where teams, I don't care that the cap went up eight and a half and it's going to continue to rise, teams are going to have a threshold of what they can pay their best player, and that's it. They're going to incubate their own budget, and that's our ceiling. And if you don't want to be here as a team A, like a, like I fear for the Ottawa senators and the Winnipeg Jets and, you know, maybe, you know, some of these other teams down the road, maybe I guess I don't feel fear for Carolina because they want to stand the cup. I'm hoping the owner wants to go to the cap. But I just, I hope we're not building super teams and I hope we're not getting back to a pre-caps situation where the New York Rangers can out shop a mistake, if you will. You had said, you know what fix is this? Yeah, yeah. You tell Sagan to stay home until January or February

And just put his I think 10 sheets or 11 sheets On long-term I are Asked me to not play when I can play It's tough I know it is That stinks That stinks by the way

I know it stinks But it's happening and it's happened in the past It has It has but Sagan wants to play You rehab off a significant injury you want to play and then Jason Robertson doesn't want to take a million less let's say I mean this is these are big dollars I get it I understand but you know that trickle-down effect to your dressing room after a while don't you think that all this has an effect guys you know I

once upon a time when I was a player we had those conversations hey on what a salary cap could do to your room something nobody listened yeah are we good on the Robertson thing yep Okay. Bookes, last one for me, just how many guys in the draft this year can play in the NHL next year? Oh, great question. Let me, instead of, it's better if I just name them off to start counting. I don't get a map. So let's go definitely.

McKenna can play, Stenberg can play. Mahaltra's close to playing. I think he can play. Vigo Bjork can play. Wow. Albert Smith can play. Okay. One more for me, Bukes.

And we've seen so much in the last little while from CHL, NCAA, U.S.HL, Europe. We're still okay, eh, with the CHL and producing NHL players from Major Junior A Hockey here. We still should see probably half of the first round come from the CHL, correct? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. More than half. The Western Hockey League is going to have a ton of guys for sure. Sweden's going to have a huge run here. Make no mistake. It's a global game and it's all going in cycles. But in terms of actually the draft itself, it's not going to change. These CHL guys are still going to get drafted despite the fact that they're going on the NCAA. It's always going to be that lean in my estimation. All right, buddy, great stuff. Looking forward to your work tonight. Thanks for doing this. Yeah. I'm going to get out of the helmet.

Doesn't it look like one of those helmets? It totally does. Bookes, we'll see in a little bit, okay? I'm coming to see you. All right, buddy. Hey, Sammy, see you later, buddy. You won't. Jason Bugula, everybody.

Can I ask you a question? Buddy, when can you not ask me a question? Why is like, let's think of the worst pick of the last 10 years for the first overall and compare him to him? Why does it have to be that? I'm not comparing him. But you've done it. You've said Lafranier 100 times over the last three. three, four weeks being like, it's LaFrenia.

It's like, why can't it be celebrini? Why can't it be one of these other guys that went first overall? McDon't McDavid. McHanna. Oh, no, sorry, McKenna. You're your leaf paranoia. No, but like. Like, busting through your t-shirt.

Why is he like, why is he like? I'm not. I'm just, he's an expert. He's an expert. He's been a scout. What are the pitfalls and what are the pros and cons of them? Like, he always, Alexander Day. Like just because he's...

Don't know. Maybe he's Jack Hughes. Yeah. Maybe he's Jack Hughes. Maybe he's better. Right? We ever consider that he's just better? Or worse?

I mean, yeah. I don't know. These are all options, guys. And Jack's a good player, but Jack's today, Jack's, what, five years in the league, six years in the league now? There was like a moment. He's a good player, but he's not,

he's not like, like, top... five or ten in the league right now. Okay. Right? I would say there was a moment, like, a few years ago, where he was poised to be like, oh, this guy's going to be in the NDP conversations, whatever.

And I'm not sure that that, you know, I do think that there's a competitiveness gap between the two of them. But I don't know. I don't want to compare those two directly. But if you had the high end of Jack Hughes or something, boy, you'd love that. I mean, Jack Hughes himself is pretty good. Yeah.

Yeah, but. But he could be now. He's not, he's not franchise. He's not franchise type. Jack Hughes isn't? No. I mean, a healthy Jack Hughes is elite in this league. He used the third line on Team USA,

play maybe 12, 14 minutes. He was on Team USA. He was on Team USA. Yeah, but they didn't play. Great three on three player. They didn't put the six guys they thought were better ahead of them. They built lines, Kip. Like, they're not saying Brady Kachuk's better than Jack Hughes.

They're saying he fits on that line. At the end of the day, you got your go-to, 20, plus guys, Jack wasn't one of them. Okay, so I throw your theory on lines out the window. You play your best players the most. Yeah. My final point on this is you and many other of the media around here. That particular doesn't want to seem like the least bias has been doing everything to take away from it and to nail down what he is.

And it's like, I think there's a potential he's a super duper star and he's one of the best. We don't have to be afraid to say that. No, we don't. He's going to, the whole lease, consensus first overall pick, lit it up at every level of hockey he's ever played. Like, there's a chance he's one of the best players in the league. There was, there was concerns about him with Team Canada. About, you know.

Concerns, again. Being, being a complete player. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. For a two week, with a two week tournament or he led the league, led to the tourney and scoring. Like, just, he's allowed to be good. And we're allowed to, you know, look at pro.

But you haven't said one pro yet. That's my point. He's got the most skill. Okay. There you go. He's the best player in the draft and he's going to the Leafs and he's going to be a superstar. Yeah. Here you go.

Yeah. All right. We take a break here. We do not agree. Yeah. We don't agree. I'm okay. I told you guys and I remained this.

I'd take McKenna. I would. I'd be nervous not to. That one. I think that's first time you said that. No, no. You're sure about that? It's not.

Absolutely. not. I said, I don't think I would have the stones to turn him down just based on the fact that it could make me look really bad. Totally. I do think there's an element of this that this guy has produced ungodly numbers everywhere he's in. Unless I move down and I get a boatload for moving off of them. That's all. Wild. Okay. We'll take a quick break. Plenty more still, including Doug McLean, top of the hour. We're going to find him in Buffalo. Are you going to meet Doug McLean? Oh, is Mack at the draft? Yeah. You got to give us. You got to tax them.

Hell yeah. I'll text them right now. Okay, plenty more. Don't go away. It's a real Kipper and Boren show. Two hours. Hey, it's Alish Forafar. And I'm Justin Cuthbert.

Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame. 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet, 590, the fan, and wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back in studio. Two hours today. Real Kipper and Born show.

Nickyipriott's Justin Borns. I'mie. Someone asked me, would I do? Matthew Nyes to Buffalo for the fourth pick. Good start. And Ryan McLeod. No. I'm off.

I like McLeod. I do. 50 point guy, no? 50 point guy and a centerman and he skates well. He's 25 years old. I mean, that point you're saying, okay, we've got Keaton Verhoff and Gavin McKenon the same draft, and McLeod's going to play center for us. You know, it's not quite the name.

want it's not quite enough but it's good throw in that uh what's that finish kid that was lighting it up hellanius and we got a deal i love oh yeah yeah that's not happening that we love how we got a deal i do love helenius though every time i watch him i'm like that's a good player who is that scored that winning goal at the at the world championships this year and then just dusted two swiss guys into the boards i'm like i like that guy and they also they threw him in playoffs and he shot it in my first game and And a legit potential true number one defenseman is very attractive. And he mentioned for nyes. When Bukala, when you mentioned asked him the players in the draft that were going to play in the NHL

was interesting to me, he didn't mention Chase Reed. Yeah. If we had more time, I probably would have followed up on that. I mean, he was in a shell. You probably could have had more time with him. Smith looks like an absolute monster of a dude. You're smitten? I would say I'm a little smitten.

To be honest, I haven't seen enough. Where's he projected? As three? No, somewhere in that three to seven, three to eight, nine. I have his list. I have Bucola's top five. I can go to the full list,

but he has McKenna one, Stenberg, two, Caleb Melhotra to the Vancouver Canucks to create the father-son scenario. Vigo Bork to the Buffalo Sambers he has on here. What I say? Bork. Bork.

And Chase Reed to the Rangers at five is what he has for the top five. So there go four forwards, and then it's going to be, Reed, Verhoff, Smiths, Karels, Rudolph. New York Rangers trying hard for Jason Robertson, too. But the number is off the charts to get them to New York City. I feel like if we had, oh, really? That's bad for the league.

It is. It is bad. Sammy, 100%. And also, like, the Rangers. The cost of living in Seattle is high. Fine. Cost of living is high in New York City. Because it's New York City.

And you get to live in New York City. And then you get to sell it at the same price. you bought it for when you leave. Let me add. This will plan at Madison Square Garden, the heart of New York City? Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, you gotta pay me the most. I don't know. If we had Chris Dr. Jerry on the show, I feel like it would be similar to our tree interview. Do you have a plan here? But I saw some buzz about Rangers

McTavish maybe. Did I see that, right? But like, so what? No, no. It's not a needle changer. The Rangers? Who's not? What are they doing right now?

I don't know. First line list on Daily Face Off is Gabe Perrault, Mika Zabana Jed, Lafranier, Cooley, Trocheck, J.T. Miller, Cartier, Laba, I don't know how Christopher is going to get them back in there. Radish, Edstrom, Rempay. What is happening there? I don't know. I don't know.

They need help. Did you guys want, what do you want to talk about? Did you, any interest in the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, Valerie Nakushkin trade and what it meant for Ranski, if that was any, them trying to get more guys in there to make them look better. Like, is that, yeah. Yeah, I think. Yeah.

Yeah. I think, Columbus has to take the chance. They're moving on of Mason Marchman, too, right? So they need a big body that can lean on people. Let's call the Nichushkin thing what it is. He is awesome. Awesome. You're not sure about off ice if things are going to be able to.

So there were a number. of teams that were very interested, but there was a stipulation in the deal that said if he, if he fell off and got in trouble again, then we would be, we would get compensation back. Oh, will you bring your receipt back and return the product? Yeah, you do. Yes. No.

Yeah, no. Has it ever happened in the history of the NHL? I wore these underwear, but there's a stain in one I've got to return them. I'm just telling you. No give back to you. No, they wanted it. They wanted it. Plan for fun, playing for keeps.

And Columbus said, no, we don't keep receipts. No, we don't keep receipts. That's fine. Of course. Yeah, no, you can't make that deal. I like it for Columbus. I wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot pole if I didn't have any reassurances at all that I couldn't get a pick back or so.

Yeah. To me, it's like this guy, his upside is so, so high. If he is unable to play in the NHL because of off-ice, whatever, then there's some cap saving there. Yeah, and thus the market wasn't great for him. I would have loved to see the Leafs do that. I would have loved to have seen him. That's not the Leafway, really, to go down that path.

No. But for Columbus a good bet, right? You're having trouble getting guys to go there. If he is on the straight and narrow, which it sounds like he is of late, then you have got a very good player for next to another. What did you think of, What do you think of Chica being able to pry a fifth out of Ottawa for a guy that was just not?

Yeah, we'll ask Doug McLean about it at the top of the hour. But, you know, they've got their backup goalie now. Otto is going to go ahead with him as their backup? Yes. Yes. They have to qualify him at 1.6, I think. Not an issue. They like him better than what they've had in the past.

Yeah. And it feels like the exact guy they've had. Two Swedes, right? Two Swedes? Allmark. Allmark and Erson, yeah. Yeah. I talked to that Charlie O'Connor in Philly,

who's watched him the last few years and says he feels like a guy who could break out in his late 20s. Like he's a big body guy that's kind of getting better. They asked too much of them in Philly. The D wasn't great. Maybe in a better spot he's better. But right now he looks pretty stinky. Yeah, he's very much in the plans for the Ottawa senators to be part of a Swedish duel right now with Omer. So that I mean O'Mark is part of the plans too, eh?

Yes. Well, you're not ditching eight large sheets. They brought in Eklin, too. Did Sondin go over and check out that team? Go start running the Sends a little bit. You'd do worse than just getting a whole Swedish team. Yeah. That's not a terrible plan.

Just don't ask Doug McLean about it with the Canucks did that because he didn't love what they did. Oh, is that right? A skilled player? Yeah. Not nothing. Yeah, no, so now you're looking at the return for the Wolin-Ben-Benwa trade,

and it's Andre, a third, and a fifth. I only see Kachuk for Eklin. Oh, that, okay. Oh, in that trade. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's... They still need help. Eklin two firsts and whatever.

I assume they'll turn that... Like, they're in on McTavish, eh? Apparently, Mason McTavish. Okay. Yeah. That was DeBrosk. Listen, they didn't want... You know they didn't want to trade Brady Kachuk, right?

You know that they had one team to trade them to, right? Like, they've done the best they could here, and they did pretty well. I would have kept him. I think he's a little overrated. Where's, where's Larkin right now? There might be a chance, Stevie could say, hey, see you a training camp. To Larkin, yeah.

Yeah. The talk with him is Minnesota. No way. Andy Strickland. Minnesota? Well, it's not acting Minnesota has been a hot spot for NHL players to flock to. Well, they did give Caprize off the key to the state to get them to stay. Anyways.

Yeah. Just, it's, I'm just sick. here in four teams. The GM of Team USA is there and Dylan Larkin's like, okay. Yeah. Connor Hellobucks, another guy that Winnipeg could say, by the way, we have you under contract for five more years. We don't have to trade you. I know there's, the word is now that they're listening to offers, but they don't have to. Futes is talking about a Carolina trade. Did you mention that on air? Am I about to say something I shouldn't say?

I don't know. Yeah. Okay. I don't know. Well, let's just assume he did. Okay. Mention it. Because we'll mention it.

So something like a first rounder, Nikeshikov. I think that's out there. Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't seem like quite enough. That is the ultimate. If I'm Winnipeg.

Brown Bracco in a second. That's the ultimate like we look back at 10 years. You're like, you traded a lot for him? You want Connor Hellebuck? Winnipeg has to go and say one of Jason Blake. Jackson Blake, sorry. Jason Blake, Seth Jarvis,

or Stan Colvin. Or Stan Coven. Or Stan Coven. Yeah. One of those three. To which you would get a resounding. No. Why not?

Because you just won the cup without Hellebuck. You don't think if they got rid of Seth Jarvis and got Connor Hellebuck, they wouldn't be right back in the final? Totally. No. Oh, I totally disagree. They got like a 914 save percentage last.

Yeah. You can give one of them. They got better goal 10. Hell of Havanaugh and Jarre. Or Jarvis. I'll have my preference on which guy. Yeah. But.

I'm just telling you that's not going to happen. You think Seth Jarvis's buddies would have as much fun in Winnipeg? They've got to buy some parkas, boys. Do they go back to their jobs now? That's, and if Florida wants Hellebuck, you got to go get a bond. Lundell. Do you want a body back?

You got to go get Lus Duranen. You got a package. You can insist on that. You're right. Feels like Buffalo is the best package if I'm a Jets fan. You get that fourth pick. You can talk about that, I mean. Could you then do Hellenius?

Yeah, like that's to me. They got the finer meats and cheeses than Florida does or anybody else. But anyways. Boys, I'm excited for tonight. Must be fascinated. There's lots. And people are still talking about Buffalo. It's got more coming.

Stay tuned. There's pressure, right? with losing tuck in. Yeah. You got to get better. Colorado is the only team for me clearly going in the wrong direction so far. They lose Nchuschen.

They lose Ross Colton. They lose Jack Drury. They pay Kulak five large for, sorry, four large for five more years. And bring back burn. Spence, too, in Ottawa. They just re-upped him. Ottawa.

Ottawa, you know, and Colorado, to me, is getting worse. This off season so far. TBD what they're planning on doing. So so far you got Florida missing the playoffs and Colorado missing the playoffs next year. I said I'm not, I don't think Florida's going to win the division.

No, I'm not going to win the conference. Florida's in. Wow, yesterday we would have just been like going to the parking lot now. I miss that. But we're sticking around for another hour. And not just any hour. Off the rails Friday with Doug McLean all the way from Buffalo.

you're not going to want to miss it. Stay tuned. More real Kippenborn after the break.