Real Kyper & Bourne - Why the Leafs Chose Jim Hiller

Episode Date: June 17, 2026

The Toronto Maple Leafs have hired Jim Hiller as the 41st head coach in franchise history. Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee share their thoughts on the hiring, why the Leafs didn't choose Bruce Cassidy, Hiller's relationship with Auston Matthews, and what he brings to the team from a tactical standpoint. Then, they go around the league to talk about some of the early offseason buzz, including the latest on the NHL's investigation into Mike Babcock, Matthew Knies' name recirculating in trade talks, and Connor Hellebuyck's future in Winnipeg. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Think things are slowing down in the National Hockey League? Think again. Yes, the Stanley Cup has been awarded to the Carolina Hurricanes, but that is not stopping the news around the National Hockey League as we get towards the draft and free agency. It's the real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on SportsF-590, The Fan, 960 in Calgary, 650 in Vancouver, and across various platforms on sports.

Net 360, Sportsnet Plus, and YouTube, where you can find us in a chat with hopefully a thumbs up for our amazing group there. And anywhere else you want to find us. Yeah, we're everywhere. This hour of Real Kippron Boren brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kippreel's Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeale, Jake the Snake Shultz, and Chris Gallagher. The Toronto Maple Leafs have named Jim Hiller.

41st head coach in franchise history. I've lost count of how many coaches were interviewed. But Jim stands the tallest today, J.B. Yeah. I'm glad to get the news. That's kind of cool. I would say that surprising is a name only because we hadn't heard that name. It wasn't one of the ones that came up in the 55 burgers, 55 fries collection of people that they had in.

However, you know, we knew that. they were looking for someone in this vein. They had apparently tried to hire Peter Lavillette somewhere along the way. This is someone with experience, someone who checks a lot of the boxes of what John Chico would be looking for. So I think it's great. Go back. I just go to the sportsnet.com website. I see the top story by our board, Justin Bourne, initial thoughts.

I see SportsNets draft rankings with a pitcher of Gavin McKenna. I see why the least traded Joseph Wall for Amelia. We're back. We're back. You know, it's like we had to like do the old kid. about the Carolina hurricane. Now we're back, maybe. Who cares?

Please. Oh, our Sammy is back indeed. Yes, thank you for plugging that. Oh, you're welcome. And you, my friend. Yeah. Your initial thoughts. Yeah.

A little underwhelming. Okay. Right? Yep. Not the biggest name, not the sexiest name for the Toronto Maple Leafs. But, you know, there was some thoughts that, You're still going to go out there and replace Barubi with Cassidy, Patrick Watt, when he became available, like a big, shiny name to fit the platform, right, of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

That's not the case here. No. No, it's not the case necessarily. You know, I think it's important that they did get someone with the NHL head coaching experience, you know, limited resume in Los Angeles, but he's been in the league since 24. You know, I think the thing that stands out is his analytics background. He is someone who had an analytics company. Big time.

Yeah. You know, that's something that I'm sure in the interviews with Chica and Peli stood out as, okay, not only is this guy have experience, but he's someone who cares about the data. And I think there was a lot. One thing John Chica said in the past was that he believes this roster has a latent upside, I believe was this phrase, which means like basically just do normal things that you can get back. You should improve with no improvement. You could say that with 32 teams in the National Hockey League.

You get a coach in there that there's upside on all of it. If you just listen to me more. I think the point is that he thinks they underachieve based on what they have. And I do think that if, you know, with Craig Barubi out, if you just have a guy who will look at the data and say, oh, this line, when we run Cowan with Nealander and Matthews, we get 64% expected goals. Let's keep them together.

I think you're already a step ahead. Your thoughts, Sammy? Well, you mentioned the word underwhelming, okay? And I thought the same thing. When I woke up this morning and, you know, I was texting you guys, what the hell we were going to do today. I'm like, oh, okay, now I know what we're going to do today. Yeah.

But I think the name, like you said, Jim Hiller was not in the conversation at all. None of us mentioned Jim Hiller. I didn't see it reported once. It was not mentioned. Like, do you think that the front office potentially did Jim Hiller a disservice with going out there and being like, we have scoured the world for all the finest candidates? And then they just get a guy that nobody had talked about. Like, I think if there's a world where he is part.

part of one of, like, in the conversation and people have kind of prepared themselves. Like, yeah. I feel like it's underwhelming because they kind of. There's big names. They're under promise over to live. I don't know. Other way around. It just,

the way it was talked about is weird. I get his name. And maybe this is credit to those guys for, for keeping that name under wraps. But this isn't a late edition. This was weeks and weeks with Jim Hiller, too. So he was right in the mix of things. I wonder if, you know, credit to Hiller, he knew that they didn't want names out there and didn't want.

this talked about and he kept quiet too it sounds like so yeah i think it says something good about the front office that there's not a ton of leaks the joseph walter trade happened without anyone mentioning anything out there so they're they're doing their business handling it like lou lamrillo style he is uh considered a very progressive coach like you said uh the balance with the analytics uh the fact that he's been here before the fact the fact that he knows willie nielander and all the warts defensively. And my understanding, too, is that he will have more of a say, too. It's just not him coming in here and just taking the job.

And I'll do whatever you guys say. He wants to be a part of it. He wants to use those analytics. He wants to help shape and mold the team through his eyes. Input on roster? Yes, input on roster. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. At the end of the day, he knows he's the coach.

Yeah. But with his background, as you mentioned, he wants to be able to participate in and what the team will eventually look like when we feel like it can compete. Well, and to be honest, I like hearing that because Chikev, whatever you think of him, he hasn't been hands-on day to day in the NHL over the past few years. It's a great point. And so you have someone who's seen it all up close. And, you know, I think that when he was in Los Angeles, I don't know if you had heard this, as well. But, you know, they used this one-three-one system,

a pretty defensive style that he felt they needed to because they didn't have the offensive talent. It sounds like he didn't want to play that way. That's just how he felt the roster would be optimized. So here, I understand it being like, I want to play a different way. Get me some guys that play a different way. And you saw the clip that's floating around of,

was it Fiala or one of them talking, like, at length about how little fun they had playing in that system or whatever. So I think a lot of Lee fans are kind of getting bent out of shape about just what they're going to be watching. I think it's impossible to know with a coach the day he's hired about what it's going to look like. They're not going to go east-west less. Yeah. Do you think, I think it's your point, Kip, I think it's fair for some leave fans to feel overwhelmed.

Like, I'm not totally in that camp, but I don't think it's, no, Cassidy Veeling today. He spent 10 years as an assistant coach, the last three in L.A. He really needs to have a good year to start jumping into the, I'm a really, I'm an NHL head coach. Because if he doesn't, he's back in on countless other names of NHL assistant coaches who tried to be head coaches who are just a better fit for an assistant coach. You know, I got to tell you, last few years,

we've, you know, our show has seen people come and go. We've seen an introductory press conference for Brad Tree Living, introductory press conference for Craig Barubi. Those settings, the guys looked very nice. nervous and maybe it's because it's in person versus Zoom or whatever. I thought Hiller came off well today, gave good answers, was thoughtful. Keepers, clippers. Come on, boys.

It's going to be better. I got to tell you, listening to the entire thing today, the only word I can use was impressed. I mean, it's a different scenario when you're sitting in a hotel room in front of a computer instead of in front of all the brights. And maybe that's why they're doing it this way, where you get the initial sort of conversation, then you do the big bright light one, so you're a little bit prepared, but he was good today.

We're going to go to a few clips. Did you get the clip of his comment about his wife? Yes, Kippert. Let's play that one. Okay. The most important thing of the day. I love it. All right.

Clip seven, please, Derek, if we do that. And finally, when John called me quite a while ago, I got off the phone and my wife said, who was that? I said, it's John Chicaa's the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. And she went, oh no, the media. And I said to her, no, I know those people. I've been there. Those are all really nice people.

So with that, I will open it up for questions. There you go. He's really talking about you, Sammy. No, I was Kipper. His wife was, oh, no, Kipper. Oh, no, Kipper. Oh, no. No one's afraid of me.

And I will say this about him. I don't know if you guys remember last year. He kind of snapped on a reporter. I think it was game three or game four in L.A. What was it again? Demeanor or something and, you know, your body language and something. And he kind of, he didn't like it at all. My whole point in all of this is that, like,

he will stand up for himself. And he, if he feels like someone's overstepping, he's not scared to give it back. And I got to tell you, do you think Army? or general media, whom we all love and care about individually, are the bravest souls, or do you think most of them will just go, okay? You know, my point is I don't think killer has anything to fear. I think there's a couple that might...

Unless Rosie and Steve are in there. It might be a little spat. I think he's going to be okay. It'll be fine. You'll be fine. That'll be fine. And the other thing that I heard... Hopefully comes on our show.

Real quick was that 34 loves him. Really? Yeah. Well, I think in general, PowerPlay. Austin's a big fan. Yeah. But he ran the Power Play Austin's rookie year, Austin, when he would come up out of the zone on a strong side,

take passes, going downhill. And I know that this guy has a history of the PowerPlay players like. And that's something the Leafs could definitely use a little boost on. I think DJ Smith might come in eventually and help with the penalty kill if I had to guess. So is that a big? big reason they hired him? You know how I stand about... Is that the main reason they hired him?

You know how I stand about like top dogs on each team and how influential they can be? I'm not telling you for one second. He's the reason why they're hiring him. Okay. I'm saying it helped. It really helps. I don't know if we didn't talk to Sam, but which clips we should get. But one of the things he did say that I thought was interesting was they asked him about

if he had talked. I think Luke Fox asked him if he had talked to. They said he didn't because they hadn't. Well, Hiller said that he didn't. Yeah, yeah. But Chica said that he talked to everyone. So he said, he talked to massage therapists. We talked to athletic trainers.

We talked to everyone before making decisions, which means he talked to Willie and Austin as well. They talked to everyone who had come across this guy. So yes, they had input. I think they want to make it look like these guys didn't choose him, but they had input. Where do you want to start? You want to start with Hiller, his philosophy on coaching. You want to talk about Chika and the message to the players.

I'll let you guys choose. Well, that's what I'll take it to this from the show. Do you want to do, I mean, Chica, he was chiking very hard in this past conference, but we can do the first one. Let's listen to the first one. Clip one. To our players, this decision was made with you in mind. We didn't hire to satisfy a narrative or check a box. We hired based on what we believed would be best to support your growth, both individually and collectively.

We hired someone who can create an environment where people are challenged, where accountability and trust can coexist, and where players have the opportunity to maximize their abilities. Yeah. Two of our players is interesting. You don't hear that much. Narrative or check a box? What would have been the narrative hire? Or to check a box hire?

Someone that Austin Willie likes. Bruce Cassidy? I've got my buzz coming out. I don't even know if it's out yet. The buzz? I do write that today, Vegas spoke. I think Kelly McCrimand spoke. They hired Ryan Craig.

Gave permission to one team to speak to Bruce Cassidy. We're going to talk to one team and one team only. Yeah. And they were your Toronto Maple Leafs. And clearly it didn't go anywhere. No. But they had that option and chose Hiller. Why don't we listen to John Chica talk about on if he talked to Bruce Cassidy?

It's a very pointed question. So clip through. John, I was just wondering if you spoke to or attempted to speak to Bruce Cassidy during this process? I would say I don't want to comment on every candidate, but certainly we were exhaustive in pursuing everybody. And through that process, as I said, it became very clear that Jim, you know, through his preparation, through his plan, that's the politics thing, answer the question you want to answer,

not the one you've been asked. Did you talk to Bruce Cassidy? Jim was just the best candidate out there. Jim, Jim. You guys are okay with that? Because he was probably the flavor. I didn't. Probably think, like I said,

I like Cassidy and a team that can win now. And I just think probably Hiller's, a guy that can probably help the process. The Leafs to me, much like L.A. where Hiller's coming from. They're not the worst teams in the league, but they're not a top 10 team. Now, they finished 28. They're pretty close to it.

Okay. They stop. But they're mid teams. They're mid teams. And I don't think Cassidy would do well with a mid team. That was like torts, right? Torts when he had the flyers. He was like, I don't think I'm cut out to coach this team.

Remember that? And the next day we came in and said, they should fire him. And then they fired him. Then they did. Then they did. Yeah, that makes sense to me, Kip. I get that. I think Hiller is in a great spot where he needs to,

like you mentioned, grow his career in his resume, lots of coaches in their second stint when they've had some learning, have success. I just think it's a great fit. Can I just follow up with you? So you think that Hiller would be a more long-term sort of solution as opposed to Cassie would be?

Like he would be less of a short-burn type of guy. Again, you got to see how this thing plays out. Yeah, fair, fair. And sometimes it's not the results all the time, but it's what it looks like to you. Is it possible that the team could take one step back with Hiller and then take two step forward at some point,

either at the end of the season or the beginning of next season, or, I don't know, does it spiral and get worse? Hope not. Well, if it gets worse, then Chike is going to be a busy man, right? That's when his job would really ramp up. Let's do clip one from Hiller on his philosophy on coaching, please, Derek. And where I believe the biggest impact the coach can have is guiding the spirit of the team. I think it's the most important, most important, the foundation of any team is how the spirit

strengthens and grows during a season. And to me, everybody who's involved and can touch the team in certain ways has some input and some influence on how that grows. The players, of course, have the greatest influence. But we outside that have to support that. understand that as that grows, the team grows. And so that's where a lot of our emphasis will be in just recreating, re-igniting, and growing and strengthening the spirit of the hockey team.

And I think that when you leave the dressing room with that, that translates directly onto the ice. I think by far my least favorite answer of the day. Spirit? Yeah. Got to know. The spirit of a hockey team? You know, I think Rod Brindamore just won the Stanley.

up and there's a lot of people being like, that's what you need. You need a guy who does, you know, that sort of stuff. But I think for me, it's as a philosophy of coaching, do you want to play up-tempo? Do you like use west? Do you like a defensive? Do you like a hard checking? How about clip six on his tactical approach? Would you like to hear that?

Yes. All right, clip six, please, Derek. Well, I think, you know, there are, I would call them relatively subtle, different tactics or systems throughout the league, but they're mostly pretty subtle. I think there's a pretty standard template across the league that all coaches play with. And I don't believe in the end, you know, that necessarily that one is better than the other. I think really, and I'll draw it right back to the spirit of the team and the commitment. Anybody does everything together and feels good about it.

I think there's room to play different styles within that. that's not the job one. Job one is to be able to get the team to play and thrive and to be excited about playing whatever style and system there is. It's just winning. So, you know, I've done a bunch of different things. I've coached with coaches who've tried things just a little bit differently. And we'll experiment with all that.

But I don't think I could tell you exactly, you know, what this system we're going to play in this system at this point. We're early. we're going to have lots of discussions. We'll have a style of play. I think that the players will be excited to play, and I think that's the most important. His top priority as a coach tactically

is to get the puck out of his own zone. Hell yes. Okay? That's it. Oh, I love that. That's it. 100%. Break it out.

I don't care about anything else. Get the little black disc out of your own zone. That's, if you're, He can improve that by 20%, 30%, so much better. All your forwards get 10 more points because they're not stuck in the D zone. Everyone, you win more games, everyone's happier. Get guys who go back on the puck, retrieve it well, make a good first touch. Yeah.

How, I can't help but think that how they improve this year. He's walking in, it's not like your Gerard Mayo following Bill Belichick here. It's the opposite. where last year, I don't know, like, I mean, Craig Brubay, it's not all on him. It was a whole organizational disaster. But it was as bad as I've watched a team play in my life that was trying to be decent. Like, they were horrible. So if they just make incremental improvements and look,

Keyes doesn't really have a ton to work off from last year. Last year was just so bad that it could look a lot better without having to do that much. I agree. That's the latent upside to me. I do think the Atlantic's really tough. And so that's a tough spot to walk into. And I do think that the pressure is really on Chica. I'm looking at the bottom six of the least right now

as Joshua grew Robertson, Pizzetta, Quillan, Lawrence. So they're all playing in the Colorado final. Yeah, it's like... That's the top six. Yeah, it's like, that's no bueno. You're going to need some bodies, but obviously, McKenna coming in would change that. But, yeah, there's work to be done with the roster for Hiller.

He also talked about having fun. Did he not? Well, I think that... Did he just say it there? Did he mention... Is that the spirit? Yeah, I think so. I mean, when you talk about spirit or having fun,

I think it's a nice thing to say if you're running a clinic for minor hockey coaches. But you got to be careful on selling that we can all have fun for 20 guys or 22 on the roster. It's fun for everyone. It ain't realistic. It's just not. Some guys are going to hit more ice time. And that's because others are getting last. If he had that philosophy in L.A.

it didn't happen with Philip DeKineau. Right? Philip DeNoe hit a wall and I don't know if it was with Jim Hiller or because of Jim or the circumstances but he went in there and said I'm done. I'm done and they told him okay we'll get you out, just be patient

no I'm done now. I'm not going back in that room. So that's when he ended up in Montreal like really quick. I didn't know that. It was that tied to it. just, you know, it's okay to talk about fun and having great spirit, but everybody's in there, ultimately looking after their best interests. We've seen it already.

Many examples over the last few years of certain players looking after, you know, their own selves. And it's really tricky. It's really tricky. But I get it. And it's okay to say it in a certain way. But you've got to be realistic about it, too. Really is the one I worry about.

Managing, managing egos, managing expectations of certain individuals. He's got a lot of work. And that includes Chica and Matt Sundin with this particular group. Lots of work ahead of them. Really hard to come in now and sit guys. Or, you know, the stars seem to have lots of license here as they seem to have some input in the hiring of the guy. So that's going to be curious to watch.

I do that part of it. It's like, it's the third. front office where we're like, how can we make them the happiest people? Yeah. It's like at some point, you'd like a little, you know, heat on their feet.

Like someone say, we need more from those guys. Yeah, and hire somebody that maybe would make them a little bit more uncomfortable as opposed to a guy that they all love. Yeah. So,

I mean, I'm not going to take away from it that much, but that part of it does rub me a little bit the wrong way. I will say, I'll take whatever Austin was feeling the first eight years versus the last two. Totally.

So if that's happy, great, let's do it. I think we should listen to clip five, which is on culture. and buy it. It's a longer clip. So I think it's like a minute 30 or so. So if we want to dump out of it, we can.

But we can start it. You know, it's what the job is in my mind. You know, there's many facets to it. So, you know, how do you get that accomplished? It doesn't just happen. Well, I shouldn't say that. There'll be a certain spirit. Every year there's a certain level of spirit.

But how do you try to grow it? Those are, you know, the coaching tools that you have. It's the communication. It's the relationships. It's defining very clearly for everybody what the standards are. It's when people reach milestones in their game, whether it's offensively or defensively within a game, it's celebrating those milestones.

There's a whole bunch that goes into it. There's not one, two, or three, or four things. But really, it's making sure that that is very clear. And it's also celebrated. It has to be celebrated. The game has to be fun. And I think when you do start to do things, you stack them on top of each other. And once you start feeling the success, when everybody's doing it together in certain ways,

whether that's out of your comfort zone from what you're used to a little bit or not, I just start to think the spirit just nationally starts to grow. And everybody feels it. Everybody who's been on a winning team, everybody who's had maybe more success than teams. So a big part of it. So a lot of spirit. Not a spirit. Now that we're listening back to it,

didn't realize how many times his spirit. Did you want to hear his thoughts? Last, I guess maybe clip will play. But the analytics thing, clearly a big part of this. Kevin McGrane asked him about that. Also asked him of the assistant coaches. He hadn't had that set in stone yet. But the analytics answer is probably an important one

considering he hired him. So let's play that clip there, please there. Clip, what number is that? Data, three. Clip three. As far as using data, information, analytics, I don't know what the right word for any of that is.

I am very open to it. I've long thought that is difficult of a game that we play to try and measure and try to understand a little bit better than maybe we have in the past is a challenge, but a worthy challenge. So I'm always looking and open to trying to find ways that we can find more information just to really inform us and to test and back test and think about.

about and maybe just create a better discussion in the coaches room or the coaches in the management room, you know, ultimately to just to make a better bet on how, whether it's play style or player acquisition, whatever it might be, those really help to inform. And my experiences, they just help you have better discussions and point you in better directions. And I look forward to that because I believe that's also a strength of mine because I've had such an interest and I know that John has with his background also and I think that's something that's that's really easier for us to communicate about. I should think most I should really like that answer.

I think most coaches feel that way though, right? And we've had Doug McLean on Fridays and he's reiterated the same thing. It's a wonderful tool and I like the way he articulated that it it opens up deeper discussions. Drives better conversations, yeah. But at the end of the day, you still got to make a, gut hockey decision. Well, that was my ultimate takeaway spending two years with the Maple Leafs

was that they had the biggest analytics department in the league at the time and you'd see all the info and you'd make all the... At the end of the day, you're going, I don't know what do you think. You know, like, it's like... Somebody has to be like, okay, that. Well, you told you because you can be like, hey, this line is best when they're together,

but this line is best when they're together. And that guy, you have all this information. At the end of the day, you just have to go, I like that choice. Yeah. You still got to, there's no computer making the choices. much as people joke about that. So I did think it was interesting.

One of the Mike Babcock comments during his time with Hiller, why he had hired Hiller is that he said he's got ideas out the wazoo, I think. He said, even though I wouldn't agree with him, he had a lot of ideas and it would create conversation for us. Didn't end well, though, between the two of them. No, he did like the thinker part.

I'm just saying he is, you know, for the Leaf's perspective, he's a thinker. But I do think that's interesting, that they're not pals, maybe? Well, I think Babcock got him fired, no? Yeah. You know what? At the end of it. An enemy of Babcock

may not be the worst guy. I think that they started like this and things turned and I think it ended and yeah, Jim got fired. Babs related, but yeah. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Yeah, I got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What do you got for us? Because we're going to take a break and we're going to get into a ton. A ton. A ton. A ton. Just those little teas. What kind of thing are you talking about?

We got Bobcock. We got... We got Hellebuck. John Carlson. Hellebuck. We got Matthew Nyes. Matthew Nye. Okay.

I'll get it. Vovsky. Oh my God. This is so exciting. All right. Game time. It's game time. It's been by Bet 365.

It's a break. Oh my God. It's game time. By Bet 365. An official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. I don't know if you guys saw last night,

but the Toronto Blue Jays, they beat that jugger-N. Boston Red Sox needed a big win. Davis Schneider hits his third home run of the year, tying him with Vladimir Greater Rove Jr. I think 130 less plate appearances, I'm not mistaken. Anyways, back in Boston tonight with Max Scherzer on the bump for the Toronto Blue Jays, catch the fever.

Okay, so they're dogs, they're underdogs, plus one 10 on the money line. I think that's fair with Max Scherzer out there. I will say the Red Sox stink and that's not bad value for the Toronto Blue Jays. He probably won't be in there too long. Four and a third. Gibby, the Toronto Blue Jays tonight, plus 110 at Fenway Park. Seems like a lot of their hitters like hitting there. You used to say that about Vladdy, and he doesn't seem to do very well there anymore.

Gladys back tonight, bucket. And looking ahead to this weekend at Shinnecock Hills, the U.S. Open, getting underway. It looks really hard. It looks so hard. I was texting with my boy Adam Stanley from Sports. He's like, the winning school will be plus. He's like, oh, really? He's like, I'm walking this course.

Plus three. He's like, I don't know how anyone's going to make a birdie. It's insane. How can you find a ball sometimes? Yeah. How do you swing? What are you swinging at? You just have people who find it for you and then hope you're Bryce in the shambo.

Yeah, you just hit it into a gallery and maybe it balk somebody in the shin and then you find your ball. Bunk it off. Anyways, betting favorite this weekend, as you would imagine, is Scotty Schephler plus $6.50. If he wins, he'll have the career grand slam, which is pretty crazy. Rory Macaroy plus $1,200. And then John Rom rounds at the top three at plus $1,400. That was game time, present up a bet $3. 365, an official partner of the NHL

must have a team plus. Ontario only, please play responsibly. And as a reminder, this hour of Real Kipper and Born is brought to you by Bet365. Okay, great time to catch our breath because I will give all our watchers and listeners a chance to go to Sportsnet.com.com and read my latest

Real Kipper NHL buzz. I will also give Sammy two minutes. Sammy, read it this time. Don't just look at the pictures. Okay? I have been known to just look at the pictures. And we will discuss some big names and who and what we're hearing about them when we return to Real Kipper and Born.

The best Blue J. show out there, period. Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back in studio. Nick Kiprio's Justin Born, Sammy McKee. Time now for the precision headlines. Brought to you by the accurate MDX, 2026.

Drive like you mean it. I mentioned Max Scherzer. Sorry for the Jasonite. That is not the case. 15-day DL, back spasms, other general olds. That's just being my age. It's just hurt at times. Probably time to just not do it anymore.

It's okay to be a host, but as a professional athlete, much harder. Are you younger than him? Well, maybe. No, I'm 43. He's not 43. No. I think he's close. Is he? Yeah.

Let me look. You guys talk amongst yourself. I don't think this is relevant. In conversation, I'll talk about hockey. How's your back? You know what, it's bad. Thank you for asking. 41.

Okay, all right. It's got two years away. I'm 37. My back barks every day. Yeah, I'm wearing a heating pad making kids lunches in the morning. Anyway. All right. Hockey.

Hockey. I read the first two pairs. I'm not a good reader, so I read the first two paragraphs. Okay. So you're sounding it out. I heard you said. It sounded like they want to put this investigation to bed pretty quick here. On Babs?

On Babs. Yep. And it's nice that you can sit there and talk to a few players, but outside of that, there's nothing to suggest that there is anything that will hold anyone back. Right. And there are some players, as Elliott reported earlier this week, that some players might be reluctant,

including some ex-players, but it's not because they have something really jarring to say. Just don't like them. No, they just, they also don't like the fact that this is three years late that if if it was that important to everybody, they would have investigated three years ago. Of course. Not now.

Yeah, fair. So it feels like a weird going through the motions to appease the PA. And it's like, no, you guys do it. It's water under the bridge now. I'm moving on. Yeah. And that's the gist of maybe some of the guys not wanting to get involved. It's not like anything.

but guys, you're too late to the party here. Yeah. Yeah, it is surprising that there's still not been a specific incident. There was some vague stuff about Patrick Linae, didn't like a comment that was made to him. I'm not going to get into the details of that because I don't understand them. But it doesn't feel like there's anything here that should prevent this. So I'm sure the league is like, all right, you're going to hire him, just hire them.

And to be honest, you know, the player turnover for Edmonton probably not going to be all that drastic. I don't imagine. They're going to head forward with the same two, superstars and I don't know how relevant the Babcock Hiro be on their rocks. And you can appreciate the NHLPA trying to, I don't know, just stand up or protect the players. But like that's Connor McDavid who is the NHLPA. And like they're on board.

They want this to happen. Connor, Connor carries a big stick. So Babs to Edmonton, quite likely. Quite likely. Okay. So some of the names that I'm hearing, Sammy, and one of them on my buzz is, Matthew Nyes, that talk of trading him has not gone away because Brad Trayleaving's gone and now John Chike is in. It's out there. It doesn't make sense. To some, it doesn't, like you.

To some. To some. Hello, I'm some. It does make sense. I'm some's brother. If you are doing this, then you're rebuilding. You're getting younger, right? Unless you just No, not necessarily. Not necessarily. But they're going to trade him for current players that are his age that are an improvement on Matthew Nyes?

Well, it depends on if you value one for one, then you can have an argument that you're not going to get better than Matthew Nyes, but if you can turn Matthew Nyes into three pieces... Oh, I don't want your quarters for my dollar. I don't

want them. I don't think they're quarters. So you think that Someone's going to say, yeah, we'll give you our top pair D for Matthew Nyes? Possibly. And a first rounder and a secondary player. I need to hear about this top pair D who's available. Listen, I don't know what it is. But that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's the type of conversation

that they're having. Now listen, I am okay with having the conversations and seeing what teams want to do. Of course, that is your job is the GM to do that. But the fact that this guy's name has been out there as a way to improve this team has been shocking. Like to me, he's between these two cores that the Leafs seem to have right now. Yeah.

And he's going to be a 32-goal 75-point bruiser. Here's what analytics or AI could tell them that when you've got an asset like Matthew Nives and others have assets like Matthew Nyes, but one has no moves or limited no moves and the other guy is completely free. You have the best chance to drive the best bargain or the best price out there for the guy who's completely free.

And that's Matthew Nyes. You are inviting upwards of 20 teams to bid on him and you're going to get someone that may overbid. And that's the value that the Leafs can get. back. This is the family guy joke. Is he working on you? Is this working on you? No, it's a family guy joke. It's the boat or the mystery box. The mystery box could be anything, even a boat. You're kind of getting, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, the three pieces are going to be no good compared to him. I don't think. Any time you make a trade of a, of a 24-year-old prime age

player and you, and you, and that's the best player in the deal, you never win the trade. There are, I'm sure, exceptions to every rule. What about, what about, what about, uh, a, a, of a, a a quality player in return, a pick this draft that could be 10, 11, 12, and a third piece. Okay. Yes.

Bring me your top pair D. So I can also draft. That's how they're looking. Smiths, Carl's. That's how they're reading, Verhof. What numbers did you say again? Get out of here.

It would be, if they move him in the next few days, it's to get back into that draft outside of McKenna. To me, though, Kip, if that happens, if that happens, I'm almost like, then just trade them all. Trade Matthews, trade them all. Right. Like I'm like, just move the whole core age back to that group.

And let's just get her going here. Load it up with top guys. Trade Matthews for two. It might not be an 18 or 19 year old. You could get a 23 or 24 year old back from Matthew Nyes. So he said 11, 12, 13. So it's either St. Louis, New Jersey, or the island. Okay.

Stop it. Okay. It could be the 15th pick. I don't know. But it's a good draft. Yeah. So we'll have to just keep an eye on that. You know, I'm not, I'm not at the Dragons Den here or whatever it's called.

I'm not totally out. I'm thinking about this. I'm talking to Kevin O'Leary about it, you know. Okay. That's my job is to make you think, Sammy. I'm thinking a little bit. I'm not, you know, resistant enough if someone says, we'll give you way too much for that thing.

You've got to do it. But I'm skeptical that happens. And I would love to be wrong. We will follow that closely. Hellebuck. Heapuck. Keep hearing that the noise out there that there may be a situation where he may want to move on. Really?

Yeah. We're there. Let me guess. Florida, Vegas, Minnesota? Go. Go to Washington, D.C. Buffalo needs somebody possibly. Detroit needs somebody possibly.

But whatever the case is between Helibuck and Winnipeg, certainly if there is a kind of a Dylan Larkin situation, they're not making any noise outside of that little circle. Yeah. But everybody outside the circle, certain teams that I've talked to, they certainly have heard his. name. Really, Kip. Wow, that would be a real end of an era. God, he gave such a great interview with Sarah Orleski at some point this year and was, you know, he's been so good to that market

and he resigned there and undervalued contract. He would require some ass that's back, boy. And I think that like, to your point, I mean, he's been brutal in the playoffs for them at times, but like he's given them his whole crew. Like, he's been there a long time in a non-traditional market where like guys don't necessarily like going, like you said, he resigned. I think he's Today he's a Hall of Fame. He's given them plenty. Is that a fair to say? I don't know if Winnipeg people probably hate me for saying this.

But like, I understand that one more than Larkin, is what I'm saying. Yeah. Sorry, Sam. It's not that I don't have anything to add to that. I'm thinking about it. I don't know. You know, like they've been good to him too by the same token. But what can you do?

God, it just feels like that American hockey team, that Olympic thing. Boy, they had a great time. That group chat was crazy. Yeah, they had a great. Every single guy was like, let's all. push south. To Sammy's point, Florida.

There is linked to the Panthers because Bobrosky's still out there and everything I keep hearing is that they remain focused on trying to bring him back. Bobrovsky's a bit of a different beast when it comes to fitness and taking care of himself

and I don't think it's the feel that he's necessarily breaking down but they certainly don't want to hear demands upwards around $35, $42 million. They're too smart to do that. I mean, Valley came on our show half through the year.

It was like, he's done. Remember that? Yeah. All these great players, as they get older, they're kind of ticking time bombs and teams are just passing them around. You don't want to be the one holding it when they're paid $11 million and not that good or $7 million or whatever number it would be.

Yeah. Now, if you move off from Bobrowski, Can you slide Hela Bucks 8.5 in there and work something around the ninth overall pick to Winnipeg? Mm-hmm. Yeah. That makes sense. That all checks. That's about what their.

Bob was earning more than that, right? So they- Bob's, I think, was 10. So they save a million bucks. And if you're Winnipeg, you're only doing it for a premier guy. Yeah. It's not just- To get premier guys to choose Winnipeg at times.

So draft in the top 10 and a deep draft. But it's not just a ninth pick. Listen. You're getting the premier superstar Olympic champion here. He's been the best going to league. Winnipeg would sell incredibly high here. Yeah. And it would have to be a ninth overall pick plus, maybe plus.

Well, that's unfortunate for Winnipeg. But God, Kip, it sounds like there is a pile of player movement to happen here. It also sounds like everyone who has one of these big names who wants to move teams, all the teams holding them are like, well, I'm not moving them unless I get X, Y, Z. There has to be someone on the other end of these transactions willing to do that, and you don't hear about those teams as much. Not yet. You're probably right.

Not yet. Nobody really likes to go first. But there's some teams. You hate to use the word desperate. Seattle's desperate. They're really, yeah, that's a good word. Seattle's desperate. And is it simply just waiting for Alex Tuck

and then throwing $10.5 million at him, $11 million? You know, I can't think of anything more that's putting a piece of scotch tape over the hole in the boat, you know, than being like we signed Alex Tuck with, they're not that close. Seattle needs to do more, right?

So I wonder if they'd be interested in big trades. There has to be people on the other end of these transactions. I know Utah is a team that gets mentioned sometimes. Dallas always looking to upgrade. Minnesota wants a center. Would you think Larkin would be the first one out of the gate at the draft if Stevie Arsman can get, again, more teams involved than the three that have been reported? Yeah.

And it sounds like there's a couple more now. Yeah, you know, I was looking at the list of available players through these potential trades that could happen. There's not a ton of guys you definitely want. You definitely want Larkin. Brady Kachuk, you would definitely want, obviously, Austin Matthews. It's Robert Thomas. But outside of that, it's like Kairu, you know, there's question marks there. Trochecks getting older.

A lot of the names come with more question marks. Breyer was on the 975, the fanatic today in Philly. He said, unfortunately, there's not a lot of players on July 1st regarding unrestricted free agency. There's a lot of players that are talked about, star players that are talked about as possible trades. So we're staying on top of that. If there's a chance of strike, that makes sense.

We're going to jump on that. Philly needs a top end guy. I think of Leifson, and maybe they're going to pick up the phone again? He's got question marks on Owen Tippett. I like that player. I do as well. Owen Tippett is 27, so he's not super old.

6.2 is very reasonable. He's under contract for quite a long time until 2032. So that's six more seasons. That's okay. I'm okay with all those things I just said. Yep. Especially with the cap going up. Mention Dowdy in your piece, too, last thing I was reading.

Yeah, he's in his last year at 11 million, and Copa Tars out. He wants to be the captain. Do you give him the captaincy at his age, or do you groom someone else, or do you pause for a year? He's the captain of their team next year, whether you give it to him or not. 100%. He's that type of guy. But he also probably wants a two or three-year deal, right? And if it's the case, how much is it?

And where is your role? Do you still expect to be the number one defenseman? Are you playing top pair? Are you playing a minute and a half on the power play? Drew could be a handful as he gets older here because he wants to play. He's a confident guy. He's a goer. He doesn't want to sit on the bench.

He wants to play 30 minutes every time. Yeah, he doesn't want to be secondary. He wants it. But is it achievable still in L.A.? And if it's not, it could be achievable with another team. Yeah. And you know what? All these guys are like, oh, he wouldn't trade, change teams?

Doubtie would. Like, I totally think, yeah. Me like at the end of his contract, right? Not like by a trade. Listen. Like, all bets are off, man. I mean, tomorrow, next week, Christmas, March 3 deadline. Right?

Sorry. Sorry. It all depends. It all depends on how meetings go. There's been no guy that I have loved more and wanted to be a leaf more over his career, maybe than. Yeah. Yeah, but you've seen these, yeah, you've seen you guys come here at that time of their career.

Yeah, Giordano and Speta. Eric Lindross. Well, yeah, Lindross was, listen, Lindross had a really good start as a leaf. Yeah, they got off. I know, I know. I would love an 88 Leaf jersey. I'd rock the hell out of that. Yeah, I doubt he's very interesting to me.

He's an interesting character. All right. Ross Colton to the Avs, that happened, or sorry, to the predators. Yeah. I like Ross Colton. I'm a, believer. First move that you make as the, what is the, what is? is that whatever his role is there now, McFarland,

he just trades for a guy off his old team. Well, you just know, you know that he hasn't fit in there, and he fits what you need. It's like, hey, let's just do that. And that was the precision headlines brought to you by the 2026 Accura MDX. Drive like you mean it. Marley's minute? Yeah, we got a few things to touch on.

Marty's minute. Akemov, shutout. Howan winning goal, why nothing? And then Actimov pitches a shutout. What not? I told you, I want to call her cup. I can't tell you. The cup is in the building on Thursday.

What it did for me at age 22, 23. Yep. Confident. Everything. Just lifting it up, feeling like a winner. Yeah. And going into training camp the next day and then cracking an NHL roster the following September. He is not big.

Actimov? He is not a big man in there. Look at him. He's not little. He's six two. No, he's little. Who's that? You're talking about it?

Actium. This is very. You don't think he's six two? No, I don't think. Absolutely. I don't know. Yeah, he's listed at 60. Really?

Listen, he's got it going. Good for him. He's got it going. Machelli's also listed. No real, Ryan Craig. Oh, yeah, we mentioned yesterday. Yeah. Was he announced yesterday or today?

Today. But you mentioned it yesterday. Yeah, I did. I did. That's kind of, again, Vegas, usually big names, right? Heavy haters. But he's part of their org, right? And now they've, he's the first guy they've groomed, right, this long.

Which is cool. You know, I think that's great. You know, you know, you like a guy. You know, he's won for you. I think there's some teams that kind of like in spending, you know, a million, a million two, a million five. Not so into the five million dollars. Not so much in the five. I think there's a few teams that.

What are they killed? Two? Two and a half? Really? Yeah. Why would you spend more? Yeah, there's six other guys who want the job. 35 guys.

All right? I can't. I mean, I can't stop with that. I think he's doing fine, though. I don't think he was... Yeah, no, financially he's stable. I don't think it was a big negotiation. Yeah.

You guys as a head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yep, that is a pretty good jumping off point. John Carlson won't re-sign with the Ducks. What did you think of that trade? I was the only dissenter. I got yelled at from everyone. Oh, there is no sense. They're a good young team on the up and up.

And they just the 13th overall pit. They got to the second round. They got to the second round. They were right there with Vegas. Yeah, would you rather losing the first and have the first rounder this year? Mid-round press? 18th. 18th.

Yeah. To give your boys an experience of beating Connor McDavid? Come on. You're telling me that. It worked. It worked. All right. Okay.

Our thanks to no one. Yeah, was this us again? Just us. God, I'm bad at producing. Oh, we're not here tomorrow. Or the next day. See you guys? Blue J's?

Yeah, Blue Jays double-dip. Okay. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Enjoy the rest of your week, everybody. Go Canada.