Real Kyper & Bourne - Winter Olympics Assurances

Episode Date: December 5, 2025

Pro Hockey Group and Sportsnet hockey analyst Jason Bukala joins in-studio (0:32) with Nick Kypreos and guest host Gord Stellick to chat about the upcoming 2026 World Juniors, the concerns from NHL organisations on potential injuries from their prospects in playoff-like hockey games, how a potential smaller ice-rink in the Winter Olympics would affect the choices countries will make for their rosters, Macklin Celebrini and Connor Bedard's chance at cracking Team Canada, and the trends in Canada vs. USA producing goaltenders. Then, Nick, Gord, and Sam McKee continue their discussion on the IIHF's reassurance of having a completed ice rink and building for the 2026 games, as well as recent controversial calls on goaltender interference and hand passes.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's get her going. It's the national hour on the Real Kipper and Born show. We are live on Sportsnet, Sportsnet, 650 in Vancouver, 960 in Calgary and streaming, always on Sportsnet Plus. If you miss our show, you can always download it at your earliest convenience, Spotify, Apple podcast, and YouTube. this hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet365 in studio today. Jason Bucla, pro hockey group, Sportsnet, former NHL scout. And now. Jason Bucla, the long walk down from the W hotel just will kill me today.

And now superstar 80s singer of We Are the World. That's right. Well, a feud is the lead singer. I just, I'm backup. So today you guys had to share a mic on the show, right? I did. Yeah, one of the mics went down, so Futes and I were sharing. Yeah, Gordo's Mike there, so.

So if you were an 80s superstar, like, who would you have been on that, on that show, on, from the son? Oh, like from the actual video. Like, who would you go? Who would you, like, I for sure would be Bruce Springsteen. Yeah, I was just to say Springsteen. Yeah, I mean, you got to go Springs to. Yeah. Yeah.

I was trying to think, Bon Jovi wasn't in there, was he? No, I think so. You could do Michael Jackson. No? I don't know. Sorry. No. Lion Ritchie.

I could do Lama. He was kind of. the leader of it all. You've seen some of your junior picks. Maybe Stevie Wonder. There it is. There it is. There it is.

Let's open up a Pandora's box here. Well, we sure appreciate you being in the studio. Yeah, I'm really cool of welcome. Usually we got some knucklehead from P.E.I. or Florida. But, you know, he's got the sniffles today. Nobody toughs it out anymore. Nobody. They don't make them the way they used to.

Not even close. Not even close. So really, really appreciate your time. You know, we're opened up, obviously, here in Canada, coast to coast. Where do you want to start, books, in terms of storylines as we get towards a Christmas holiday coming up? Well, World Juniors is on the horizon. It's always an exciting month for prospect pool. Those kids that have previously been drafted, but what I'm really excited about this time around, guys, is the draft eligibles.

are coming to the world juniors. As everybody knows, it's usually been a 20-year-old tournament. It still is, for the most part, that older group of players. But this year, when you can take a look at the McKenna's and the Verhoffs and the Stenberg, I can't remember the top three, potential top three picks in the draft, all playing at the world juniors in my history, you know, and I think that's really exciting. I think that I'm curious to see what Canada's roster looks like on Monday when they announced it, but, geez, the power play should be an absolute wagon when they put it all together

here. What about some kids on NHL clubs now going to this tournament here, the name Kindle in Pittsburgh? What do you hear? I don't think Kindle's going to be released personally. I don't think so. He's got seven goals. Yeah. Yeah, I think he's got at least five. He might have four or five with the power play. Like him and Sid seemed to have a little synergy going there. And I don't see Kindle being released. I see Brenneke, possibly from Pittsburgh's prospect pool coming. Michael Mesa. I did a thing on Michael Mesa today. I really believe that it's the right move for San Jose to let him come to the world juniors. The one thing that's really delicate with prospects, as everybody knows, is that they have to play games. He can't just practice and work out. He's coming off an ankle injury. He's been assigned to the Barracuda, San Jose's American League team there for a conditioning stint. But kids at that age, they can only go down for, I believe it's like 10 calendar day, five games is what it is before they have to be recalled. Or, you know, have to make a decision on him, send it back to junior. So that button's right up to the World Junior training camp.

So I see him going to the Barracuda, get back into it. I think high-levered situation for Mesa to come back and then go back to San Jose after that because he's already played three years in the Ontario Hockey League as an exceptional status player and he ran away with the scoring title last year. There's nothing more for him to do at that level. But Team Canada would be a real good fit for him for all them. Now, I would think all NHL teams are, like, I mean, I think the Shane Wright experience really shows about a real positive, right, for Seattle, about trying to find something different and the growth and what he did there. Are there any HL teams do you think that are still leery, just totally try to dissuade whether they worry about injuries or whatever from their top prospects playing the world juniors?

No, I don't think so. I think, you know, in my experience around, well, especially our player development group that was in Florida, and now listen, they were high-end competitors, Brian McCabe, Chris Pronger, Roberto Luongo, and Dale Talon always believed that they should go to these high-leverage events because there's a takeaway, isn't there, Gore? Like, you have to, it's playoff hockey for two weeks. You're going to win, lose, or draw.

Something is going to be taken away from that experience. So I don't think that teams look at it that way. I would say this, though, if I had to default on that, that college programs because of the lesser schedule and it's more, all the games are meaningful. you're only playing twice a week and you've got that condensed schedule that the college teams have, I guess they would be a little bit more leery of it in a selfish way. But at the end of the day, they're going to get a better prepared athlete out of the experience.

Nick Cabrillo, scored Stellick, joined in studio with Jason Bucula, pro hockey group, and of course, Sportsnet, former NHL scout. All right, Olympic. You said you have an update, can be? I do, I do. Of course, the NHL and the NHLPA has been in regular correspondence with, the double iHF and iOC i was told there was a zoom call today and both the nchl and the pa have been assured the building will be done okay that's something uh good yeah i'm glad because we've all

been talking about it forever now correct me if i'm wrong and i think did you guys about so pke came on this week great period of board came on was it yes sure whatever he was he was with you guys too yes yeah both yeah so was there misunderstanding in the dimensions of the Frank, was that in relation to a double IHF size facility or an NHL size facility? Because it seemed to be some confusion with that three foot. My understanding, it's the European model. Okay, so we're pretty close to an NHL size anyways, right? Tell me something, though.

There's three sizes, by the way. Where is it going to be most felt? As a scout, where would you think, after all these games of watching all these kids play the game and assessing where their strengths and weaknesses are, where is it going to be felt the most in the neutral zone behind the net where's three feet going to be felt well if you divvy i mean the game's played so fast anymore i guess i just anything that you take away in the neutral zone without a red line where it's that sprint between the blue lines that's going to put more duress on the defenseman you're not going to see maybe as much you might see them

giving up the blue line a little bit more because of the fact that even three feet like that i know it doesn't sound like much but at nchl speed that's a lot of room that's a lot of space and so if you're not long with your stick or if you're not taking the proper route so I think you might see them defer to zone entries a little bit differently if that's the case that would be my guess just because of the speed aspect of me.

Yeah, now with the three or four or five feet, are they going to squeeze it in the neutral zone? Is that the assumption? Well, that's what I'm curious about too. That's the other, but I got to say, so we had Pete DeBore in our show in H.L. Morning Skate, but when he was on with you guys, it was like groundbreaking news,

but it turned out Doug Armstrong had actually mentioned it about a month ago that he was aware of it but I don't think anybody heard it but it's yeah no it didn't it sounds like the no one listens to Doug Armstrong but they listen to Kifford board that's good they got their priorities right so I love how Sammy's just crying it up

over yeah he's lying on the couch his feet are up he's laughing oh my studio audience of one studio audience you release it on a very popular show that's what you want to do yeah understood yeah but we were jammed in my show so I said give it to Kippy but the

But so apparently Metrically this works out Like like the so the IHF said here are the specifics in meters You know whatever So it's not like a surprise like geez What idiot here was one yard shy So anyway whatever It just sounds like the NHL and NHLPA

Didn't know until they listened to your show They didn't listen to Doug Armstrong So it just kind of Whether they were caught by surprise or not It kind of sounds like they were Does it make a difference on who you take now? No. No.

What about Tom Wilson? Three feet less for Tom Wilson. Like you want to get out of way of Tom Wilson. So I guess if we preface the question that in my mind. Now where to hide now in this rank. Yeah. Like, you know. Kippey's put Max Domey on his.

Okay. Good for Kim. And that's why team Greece isn't playing in the double HF for gold medal in hockey. I guess. One Stevie Wonder joke and now you guys are all over me. That's what it is. Tom Wilson. on my team like I have them on my team for yeah I mean not just uh I guess looking in I'm not

even wrestling on my laurels based on the four nations necessarily guys because that's a whole different event he could drop the gloves you can do different things of course you're not going to be able to do that here but listen what what what else does this guy have to this is a modern day power for three years ago gordon I probably was said I don't know it's a little bit of risk in that because you know when he does something silly it's usually pretty silly nowadays a leading goal score or last year in Washington plays all situations and he's fast and he's a big, big body

so boy I wouldn't want to be playing against him now conversely you know team USA look at some of those guys like the chucks or at least one of them you know that's the type of body as well it's going to give everybody all they can handle so the other thing Pete DeBore told us that he didn't say on your show

I know for sure I think of Scott was telling a story was that the NHL referees will be a big part of this especially with NHL players, a certain amount of NHL players in the game. But it's still called internationally with the headshots and all of that. Does that factor in at all about who you're bringing? So for me, that's curious.

And based on my experience for sure, Trout, I'll give you my world juniors. Like when the world juniors are called in North America, even though some of those international referees come over here, I always find that the, I don't know, how it's buttoned up different. differently when anything's played in Europe. So I'm curious to see how our guys, our guys, the national hockey league guys, adapt to whatever that is, because you're right. Like anything that looks like it's, you know when they gap up and it's really shoulder

to shoulder, but there's a follow-through and it looks like you hits them right on the button and stuff like that. Now you've got to stoppage and play and everything becomes a five-minute major in international hockey, right? Those head shots. And then you've got to sit for another 10 if it's not a game of sconto, all kinds of different things. So, yeah, you've got to make some adjustments that way.

Hopefully it's not a factor. Well, and one thing's gotten better was, so Todd Olusko had a, he just said, granted, it was 20 years ago when he played for Mannheim. And he said the problem was just back then, like what we call chinty penalties were penalties, right? And he said, the diving was ridiculous, but the worst part was you started diving.

So just, you know, whatever. Now, that's not as prevalent. You know, I mean, that almost bugs me more than, because you go in understanding about head shots. Like, that's kind of now with the stop thing in minor hockey. Like, it's understood. It's a different game, right? That, okay, you're going to get penalized a different way.

but I haven't seen as much of the games that just never get going and the chinty calls are made. Yeah, and I hope it doesn't get to that. I guess I would say that some of the rosters who don't have as much North American influence, I, NHL players, perhaps you might see a little bit of that. But honestly, in my travels nowadays, it's changed a lot over the years. You know, like Finland, Sweden, Germany is a great league. The Dell is a great league. And they play more of our style.

It's not what we, you know, I think. 25 years ago there was a little bit more that nudge especially check yeah remember remember the old check republic teams like he give them a little and there's a lot of diving and stuff going on i don't see that as being a thing anymore books was it an easier decision to keep connor badard off this team three weeks ago than it is now yeah i mean it is so again i'll go back to it i don't rest on my laurels like i see so points named to the team for example okay and and he's a hell of a player. I get it. But there are guys from that four nation team that have been

let's be honest, they've been average, even though they've been, they're proven winners, et cetera, et cetera. What we need and I need is our best for two weeks. And Connor Bedard put in the work in the offseason, right? Kudos to him. That half, like I'm going to do something on sports tonight on the desk. Like

Mitch Marner is averaging two miles an hour slower in his bursts this year. And he's, and if you look at his game and his results and now you look at Bedard, he's got what, like a half a mile quicker look how much more space he's creating he's over 50% in the face off draw his battle is better all these things you look for right um so yeah he's he's right there and he's outperformed other people i guess is what i'm trying to tell you and i always think back to when sidney crosbie was left out the team

several years ago and i'm not i think this is going to be a great hockey team but i don't want for us to just um um bring guys because i want for us to bring our very best for a two week event where we're all playing at the top of the table and get the best possible result period i think that's the way it should be done. We had Ray Ferraro on yesterday. I thought he made an interesting point saying if I got a guy like Connor Bedard who's my 13th or 14th forward,

I'd rather have that on the sidelines than a guy that could chip a puck out in my own zone late in a game. Yeah. I mean, is there a chance that you would look at this lineup with Connor Bardard off of the, off of the, line up and go, you know, oh, man, we needed more scoring.

Yeah, you don't want to have that problem for sure, you know. So, yeah, I think they're raised onto something there. Absolutely. If you got to pull a guy out of the weeds, you want to have a guy that's going to be a difference maker, even if he's a specialist. So just suggests for a second that their power play is struggling for whatever reason. And, you know, they want to make a change or somebody gets nicked up or sick. Anything can happen over there, obviously.

And now you get this guy, you pull, instead of a guy who in the three or the four who's going to, you know, work off the cycle. one off the half wall. That's not going to matter as much. You think it can be a celebrini and Bedard? Oh, 100%. They're the top three, four, five scores. Like, seriously, the other thing compared to, you know,

it's one thing I remember Shaddyman Ken Hitchcock, the evolution, as you well know, every kid comes out now really well coached, okay? It doesn't worry where they come out. So in some ways, if you just put the best players, like they're going to play the game the right way. You know what I mean? It's almost like, you know, so when you start thinking about a checking line

and whatever, well, ever since, like, best players kill penalties now, right? You know what I mean? It's just, it's all encompassing. So in some ways I'm saying, is there not a way, just who are the best players? You're here and we're going to figure it out versus, okay, there's Sorrelli for a reason or whoever, maybe, you know? There's two schools of thought, but, I mean, the best player, okay, I'm not playing center. I'm going to play a wing. Great.

I've got to be a, I'm going to be a great, like four nations face I've showed that. Absolutely. And listen, Jeff Lashel has done a heck of a job in Chicago. I think we would all agree on that. He was Cooper's assistant there for, like, you don't think Coop's picking up the point to say, hey, Blash, like, we really love the kid for what he can do here, you know, what else can you tell me about how he's evolving? How is his preparation?

Obviously, his preparation has been off the charts. I'm talking about Bedard here. Right. And, you know, I think that a lot of that's going to be going on. And, yeah, it's an exciting time, though, because we kind of, you can see that outside of the goaltending, which is we consider and talk for days about that. But outside of that, we have a nice little underbelly. an undercurrent of youth coming through the system because

Schaefer is going to be around, you know, Celabrini, Bedard, these types of players and you start going down the line. And let's not forget that Conor Bedard in Halifax, just a couple years ago, when they won gold there, he carried that team on his back. Like, it's not like he doesn't understand the task

at hand. You know, he's up to that challenge. And I would actually say even more than Bedard at this age, a little bit younger, like Celabrini guys. Like, he's programmed. To me, he's an ex-Sidney Crosby. Like, that's how he's programmed. And, I think that and Schaefer probably the same way too.

So anyways, I digress. There's only so many spots. That's the thing. I look at Jarvis. Jarvis in his last 10 game segment, to your point, if you got to pull a guy in a row,

if you look at that, in this last 10 games, I scouted him, for his first five, he had two apples, his next five, he had a hat trick in there, five talks, okay?

The problem there for me, or the question I would ask is, can we afford for him to have donuts for a couple and then hope that something else happens later on. It's not because he's a bad player or anything else, but you've got to ride the best of the best when you arrive on time. And we'll see what happens. I want to pick your brain a little bit with your pro hockey group

and your scouting background here when it comes to goaltending. And let's just keep that theme for a little bit. Should Canadian fans be a little bit more concerned, you know, even with Bennington coming in and where his game is at and where it can be by February, the Americans seem to be producing more goalies than us, Jason. So, like, what's going on there? Like, what's the deal?

Well, it's grassroots problem. I have to tell you guys that right out of the box. So the grassroots reality is that in Canada specifically, it's very expensive to play net, just the fact. And I would like to see minor hockey organizations step up to the table, whether it be in the registration fees or whatever the case may be, get a goalie sponsor and get these kids outfitted where parents can afford. There's a lot of kids that want to pay.

playing that but it's just the fact they can't afford to do it that's one thing so they start later in the u.s those specifically um you look at that like spencer night uh you you you know hell a buck you can keep going down a whole way russia by the way has a goal tending um it started with trecheac but it's kind of filtered all the way through in different quadrants all over russia they have this they pinpoint the best of the best and they all bring them in uh three or four times a year and they train their goaltenders together and they worked them all the way through the system so from their minor sports level to the mhl vhl khl etc etc and it just keeps turnstalling we don't really have anything in place there's still a little bit out of their own island that way and um

this is what you get right like logan thompson let's not forget he's playing uh university hockey a brock yeah not too long ago now we're talking about him being our olympic starter potentially and he deserves it by the way he deserves it well and and you know kippy and that it just just takes star A star goaltender like Dominic Hashi did in 1998 to win the tournament. And that could be Sweden, you know, whatever. I mean, you know, so everything else you talk about gets trumped by the right Bauer, left bower, a goaltender that steals a game. And when you only have one game, you're screwed, you're out.

And Jordan Bennington's a guy that did that last year, right? And he had his doubters and, you know, good on him, did it. And USA could have all those guys and maybe end up picking the wrong guy. I don't know how much. the fact you get the preliminary games you would think because as we talk about when Canada won gold medal somebody else started to the chagrin of Curtis Joseph and Pac-Win's relationship and then somebody else later like you know getting it being on those tournaments you get a better sense who the right guy is for that moment I guess yeah I agree with that

and that's the beauty of a preliminary round getting you to the medal round but then again you want to shuffle the deck properly so your opponent is going to be give you the best opportunity to at least be playing for a medal I think they're well positioned position across the board that way. I guess I would pose it back to you guys and it comes back to a team building thing for me. If we are worried, if this is where we're going to be worried or goal-tending, let's just agree that we're probably look at that and that's going to be the weakest part, potentially weakest part of our roster. Okay, biggest question mark. So what I would really like us to do then is challenge our opponent to keep the puck out of their net with our best

of the best and really just press the whole time because some coaches by habit, they get buttoned up when they're worried about something, whether it be, you know, they only got 4D, not 6D that they can trust or a goaltender who's struggling. So they buttoned down their game. I would sooner challenge our opponents to keep it out of their net, win 6'4 if you have to. You know, do whatever you got to do. So we'll see. Just to follow up a little bit on the goaltending, I don't know if it's just what's going on with goalies today in the NHL. There seems to be a lot of teams looking for them or just not happy with them. is the philosophy of drafting a goalie 20 years ago or 30 years ago

the same as it is today? Are they less reliable? Do they get hurt more? What's going on there on that front? Because obviously you know what's happening here in Toronto. There's two really good goalies who, when they're on, are almost as good as anybody out there in the league. But there's this small problem on they're not reliable to show up.

There's a butt at the end of the sentence, right? Two great goaltenders, but can they play every night? So I've been around the league now as a scout and doing what I do now for 23 years. And I can tell you very truthfully that the goaltenders, 20 years ago, when it was just straight up butterfly and you didn't talk about all this other stuff they were doing, you know, the paddle down. I remember when that came in and the reverse V and all kinds of different things. Their bodies now, if they get nicked up just a little bit

or they feel like they're out of sequence, they take days off. Like, that's just a fact. That would never used to happen. Now, maybe I'm old school. The three of us probably are a little bit old school that you've got to play through some of this stuff, right? That's how I feel about it still. But having said that, it never entered into, so we drafted Spencer night in the first

round at the Vancouver draft in Florida, okay? And all, and he's wiry, like a tall, wiry guy, really athletic. But we, it never factored into our thinking that he would ever not be during. Now, he is durable, so don't get me wrong, but it never entered into our thinking. There is a goaltender in this league playing on a high-end team who had two of those hip surgeries before he even made it to the National Hockey League. Two of them. And it's almost like the Tommy John thing.

You know, when guys get Tommy John and they come back stronger. So he had that when he was in college. And I don't want to throw it out there because, you know, I don't want people to. But, yeah, it's a different thing. It's a problem. Like right here in Toronto. But last year, we all sat here and said they were so much more buttoned up, organized.

and that structure in the net. The look was different, it wasn't it? Like Samson, I remember Samson, I have 6'3, but he plays like he's 5'10 because he's so athletic and he loses his net. And as soon as you're big and you get outside the posts, you lose your size advantage because you've got to travel back so much further.

So you're not into it, right? These guys that they have are big, but they're not playing every night. So now you're, well, Hilda Beach is huge too, but, you know, that's a lot for that guy to take on right now. It was funny you mentioned about the Tommy John for kid pitchers nowadays. And I think it was John Sebastian,

Chiguerre talked about it, the fact that, like, you're not standing up straight. Like, you're, you're kind of even worse than a baseball catcher that the pressure you put on your, on your hips compared to decades ago. Like that, that's, that's just the ready position. It's 6-7 pressure. Yeah, no, I know. But it's something that's not 5-9. 5-9 is less pressure. And you're doing it constantly now, which that never used to be part of the DNA.

Yeah. No, it's like pistons in an engine, isn't it? Yeah. All like that and your legs are taking what they're taking it's, and that's, so that part of the process, let me go back to how you like just the drafting process of goaltenders I can tell you this for certain that with the evolution of analytics in the game of hockey and the drafting and developing model there's a lot of departments in the national hockey league the analytics departments who think you don't ever have to draft a goaltender and to a man to a man because when you do draft a goaltender

generally speaking they don't arrive and I'll go back to my national days pecker rennie didn't play his first game until he was 25 turn 26 like that was his first full-time in the NHL season. So a lot of organizations aren't worth it. They don't want to wait two contract cycles for these guys to arrive. And then your analytics department are saying, and this is outside injuries and everything else. But they're saying we can go get those guys in Europe.

We can get those guys in Russia. We can get those guys in, you know, out of college hockey, et cetera, et cetera. So it's not an exact science to goaltending. But if you really believe in a guy and he's the best player available, and he's a goalie, don't hold it against him. Go after it. Because when they arrive and they're really good, Like, where would Chicago be without Spencer night right now, too?

You talk about everybody else being better there? They have a goalie now, right? So, Minnesota and Billy Ery made a horrible mistake when they took Yesper Walshstead in the first round, eh? Yes, per Walsh? Terrible, terrible mistake. So can I tell a Walsett story here? Yeah. So when I first started watching Walshstead, and you'll know about this kind of stuff, he was a double underage on the national team.

Okay. So when he was on, like, 18, 17, when he was on the 17s, 18s, he was on the 17s, he was. was like 15 like late birthday so he was always playing up up and up and i remember we're going in there to watch him the first time and uh i don't know if i was late to the dance at there whatever but i'm watching this kid in the net this big big goaltender athletic crease composure all like his off the charts his composure was outstanding he looked like a pro he looked like he played in the shl he was like 16 years old so i don't know anybody would have missed on him to be honest with you that was one right there and obviously minnesota didn't they traded up two spots guys

two spots to get them because they obviously felt, I don't know who was drafting right after. Boston. Boston was drafting right after them. So obviously they must have it until the Bruins were going to grab the goaltender and good on them. This kid's, he's the real deal. Well, and Steve Eisenman moved up to get Sebastian Cosa,

that same draft ahead of him. And actually, Dallas took the pick and got Wyatt Johnston later with the pick. And I said that's a fascinating one there, Gore, because COSA is a giant. Okay. And he played in the Edmonton Oil Kings. He's a giant of a goaltender. but his athleticism compared to COSA, like if you have to make a second save,

like, okay, I square up, if I don't eat the puck and it spills, now I've got to be athletic enough to make a second save. Wollstead's athleticism, and to this day, it's the same. I hope COSA has a great career. Having great stats in Grand Rapids.

Yeah, and maybe by the time he's 25, he'll get it, to my point earlier, but Alstead is a real deal. Walsett did struggle the last couple of years, too. It's not like to spend this... It's never a straight line with those. Never straight line. Spencer Knight went into the program for some ADHD things.

Like you had to mature off the ice with different things as well. Like, I think the human factor in there, too, whether you're a goaltender or anybody else, we have to be cognizant of the fact that the journey is in a straight line with these young guys. Awesome stuff, man. Listen, under a pinch here, you pitch. The microphone work too.

You didn't have to come over. Yeah, you pitched a perfect inning or two here for Doug McLean. Thank you very much. Thank you for opening the segment with that glowing compliment of my scouting ability. It was awesome. I made you laugh. That's the most important thing.

I like it. Jason Bukla in studio. Thanks for joining us. And we got Sammy after the break to bring it home on the Real Kippenborn Show. Don't go away. Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk. The Hockey PTO cast with Dmitri Filipovich. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome back in studio, Nick Kiprios, Sammy McKee, in for Justin Boren, our very own Gord Stelich. This hour of Real Kippin-Borne brought you by Bet365. And on that note, it's game time. Presented by Bet365, visit the app for latest odds, and see why it's never ordinary. Bet, 365 must be 19 plus, and tarot-only. please play responsibly. So I was looking at since we had the World Cup draw today, we had a heated discussion off the top of our show about it.

It was really heated. You guys should go back. We're really after each other. But I started to look at who the favorite was to win the World Cup. So you can still, you can bet on that already, six months away. But the favorite to win the World Cup right now is Spain at plus 450. Coming in at second is England at plus 550. And Italy, who hasn't even...

qualified they're back baby they are plus so there's 33 to 1 so they are in the top 11 teams that are favored to win the world cup without having actually qualified yet they still have to go through their qualifiers so pretty interesting stuff there can't say i love that for canada Canada is 250 to 1 to win the world cup so that gives you a pretty good example are we in top 30 no i don't really know where we are we were always floating around there but we're better than we used to be. So I thought that's interesting. Give me England at plus 550.

I feel like one of these times. We'll see if you change your mind. No, I'll be cheering for Canada because I'm a Canadian. That was game time presented by Bet365. Visit the athlete of sod and see why it's ever ordinary at Bet365. Most 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you're just joining our program now, I don't know what's out there in terms of any

Olympic updates, but I did mention that the NHL and the PA are regular correspondence with the double IHF and IOC heard that there was a Zoom call again, a meeting today between all four parties and the NHL and the PA have been assured that the building will be ready and done. Okay, can I follow up with that? Yes. Ready and done by when so that they can test it? Like, are they, like, is it a...

Sam, you know, lots of talk about... plan B's and if there's anything out there that you know they should be looking at and the feeling was no it's way too late beyond that and we heard from Bill Daley a little earlier I don't know where who quoted him or where the report was I think it was Matt Lurkin yeah yeah okay so it it it was basically if if it's not ready we're not going yeah so So him saying that, okay, this is, I'm playing devil's advocate now. So what other answer could they give? Because if things were in a state of peril, they could say we have to look at alternate arrangements.

But they know there are no alternate arrangements. So on the Zoom call, what else can they say? But we're going to be ready. I'm not, I hope they are, whatever I'm just saying. You know, I don't know whether they provided schedules or not. or you know what if it said it's looking dicey what do we send over troops yeah we send the bajoni brothers who built my house yeah right we got so many people just make a few phone calls and get people over whatever to get just get the job done right you got a curl of a couple guys

to be able to go over there and get the rink we don't lots well you remember the sky dome like it was the 11th hour getting done and to me this is a bigger international magnitude magnitude but they They still, you know, we're like hammering things the day of getting it done. But anyway, we got a hope, right? Got a hope. Got a hope. All right. I mean, I'm sure they give them, I'm sure the NHL would give them a drop dead date

where if this thing isn't ready, we're not going to go. Like, they're not going to haul all these, you know, billion dollars worth of hockey players over there and have them step on the ice and be like, oh, no, this isn't good. We're not, they're not going to make them travel all the way over there. There's going to be a day where they say, again, it's got to be done or not. It's got to be done, but if it hasn't been tried and tested, there's a, it could start off as ice and end up in a weak slush. Yeah.

You don't know. Well, those old, that's the danger here. Those old exhibition games, you may have played in the odd one, like in the Vegas parking lot that was slush, right? You know, way back when, I'd mind again, but it just, yeah, there's, uh, obviously safety concerns. John Tavares was injured in the 2014 Olympics and the Islander owner wasn't too happy about it, you know and so that that's another level right there's always the danger of like heavy construction

and then a ball gets trapped in the fence and you can't a puck gets trapped in the boards and you can't pull it out yeah hey sammy well that's not unacceptable but you see if you still have runners on second and third nobody out you got to get them home okay all under the fence you're Not under the fed. Oh, my God. Rule broken. We said no baseball talk. That was so brutal.

That game. He's just carried it. He continued. And second and third, nobody out. And your game was over in three swings with the bat. Yeah. That was tough. Okay.

Goalie interference kind of took a bit of a beating last night from at least the head coach of Colorado Bednar. Well, yeah. Yeah. And then I know John Cooper was a different one as well, but two of two, actually, isn't Bednar number two seniority with his team? I think he is after Cooper. That's hard to say. So the two most senior coaches of the 32 teams.

Do we have any sound of that, Sammy? We do have Bednar. We do have Bednar. We do have Benar. We do have Cooper, too. But we'll start with Bednar. We'll start with Bednar. If it's not goal interference, I don't know what it is.

You can't just shove the goalies pads out of the way and then, like, create a loose puck. I mean, but I mean, I'm getting them all wrong when I'm looking at the challenges around the league. league so you know I'm kind of having my mind I'm not going to challenge unless it's obvious but to me it was obvious it's I mean it's tough visual when there's like six guys there hacking away at the goalie I don't know I think it was goal interference I think he's right well it's really hard though it is for the if he's a head coach he's been there you said

second longest right now in the NHL and if he can't figure it out how's an average fan watching the game at home going to figure out whether it's a good goal or not. Yeah. And also if the puck's loose and whatever, there's a right to go for the puck, right? I do think if you can stay out of the blue paint, stay out of the blue paint, because some of those where guys have taken

have embellished or taken liberties, just kind of bit them the ass that they went in the blue paint. But it's supposed to be the call on the ice is what needs to be overturned. So Ty goes to call on the ice and also that word, I don't necessarily, you want to get it right. It doesn't mean

egregious all the time but just it's got to be definitive so yeah there's going to be there's always going to be the human element always can you okay so the call on the ice is such a deciding factor correct is there ever a way i think i don't know where i heard this but is there ever a way to do the reviews where the people who are reviewing it don't know what the call in the ice is because it's always like these calls like i mean it happens all the time in baseball where the ruling on the field does not, you know, it's, they go so by the book because of that. But it just feels like there's so many times

where that tie goes to whatever was called on the ice. But maybe it's not a tie and they're wrong and they're just deferring to it. It always drives me crazy with the reviews. Well, first of all. In every sport. That'd be a boring night for whoever's doing it. Yeah.

They'd be in hermetically, they'd be asleep and hermetically sealed. But then you lose the ability to say it's inconclusive to us. We got to do one or the other. to go to the referee on the ice, you know? I just, I don't know. And you got to, you should know what that call is. Yes, yeah. Agreed.

Same thing if you're going to, the heavyweight belt, a tie, you retain the belt. You know, whatever, the rider cup. A tie, you retain the rider cup. So, you know, it's, there's, there's always a fallback. Anytime you're in the blue paint, you run the risk of having your goal, disallowed, no matter what. And I think if you just kind of live by that rule, and, man, you roll the dice. You step into that blue paint, you roll the dice.

I don't know how sick Doug McLean is, but this guy just won't stop texting me about the show. I thought he only listened to us when he was on. Doug McLean's texting you. I thought he was too sick to text. Yeah, I mean, he was upset about our love fest, the first hour for the leaves. He's texting me.

Or it could be an outdoor game when the sun is out. I don't even know what the hell that is. He's even talking about it. I love listening to you when I'm on. He's talking about no roof on the ring. Yeah, I get it. Now I know what to talk about. Did you want to hear John Cooper?

Yeah, I want to hear John Cooper because we had another controversial goal last night in Tampa Bay. Yeah, let's hear John Cooper. We could do that. Can you take us through the end there with the handpass? It seemed like it was a little bit of confusion. What was your explanation there at the end? Well, again, so you have to mean, I guess there's a couple things. Okay, did he mean to do it or was it deflected?

Was there an advantage gained or not? and you could really debate whether an advantage was gained. Did Brandon Hagel direct that puck knowing exactly where it was going? No. Would you sit here today and say Brandon Hagel was maybe protecting his face from a puck hitting it or protecting some part of his body? If I threw this microphone at you right now, would you put your hand up to stop it? Hell yeah, you would.

So there's a spirit of the rule. Was that the spirit of the rule? Was that the spirit of the rule? Practice that one here. taken in the face if that okay let's let me do that and I think that's where we get that wrong and that's not what happened and he didn't direct any pucks that was a bang bang play there were tons of guys around it turned out we got it first a lot of play a lot of the game developed after that and then a puck went in the net so is that a really frustrating one for me it is I think

you read the real the rule book which we did and then you try and dissect what happened in the play and then you take it all into consideration, it's laughable that that got overturned. Gordon, if I took one of these bricks here and threw it at your head right now, it's a big target. You know, what would you do? Is John Cooper a lawyer at one point or something? John, it's almost like he's good at this stuff. Yeah, I would hire him.

So he's right, though. I actually agree with him. Right now, yeah, I think we're all on John Cooper's page here. Well, about the first part. But when you read the rule, it doesn't have. have to be if it's if you unintentionally still get an advantage you cannot touch the puck with your hand in any way shape or form and then have it go to one of your teammates yeah it's blown dead and get an advantage so which is stupid in itself why is it stupid in itself it's the rule i know but

like so a puck can touch my ankle it can touch my knee it could touch my pants can touch any part of my body right my shoulder my chest, but it can't touch my glove. You might as well play handball then. No, no, no, no, no. Because if you're batting it down, it's one thing. Okay.

But if you're doing like this. I'm okay with that. I agree with you. I'm okay with that. But we're not talking about a bat and we're not talking about directing the puck. We're talking about a touch, a simple touch.

Then you're opening it doing the directing but trying to look like you're not directing. Do it then. Do it. We do it with feet. We do it with skate. We have a dispute. kicking motion, why can't we just have a distinct passing motion? Because there's just so much gray area already with your feet already. No, there's gray with the feet on a distinct kicking motion.

Just put in the rulebook that your hands are the same as your feet and there's no distinctness. You cannot purposely pass a puck with your hand. But if it inadvertently touches you, you're kicking it. Wacking it is again, there's intent on whacking. a puck or pushing it touching it if you're defending your face or your body play on guys play on but i can kick the puck to you but i can whack the puck 10 yards down there if i'm allowed to whack the puck so my hand in me your point is is that they got the call right but the rule is stupid

yes okay okay i agree yes that's i totally agree loosen up on it that's all i don't want to see hand passes you're right we're not playing handball We do want to see more goals, and that's why they... We do. And it was a terrific goal. It was a terrific moment that would have tied the game, and you lost it. Because what was it 15 years ago? They changed it to had to be only a definitive kicking motion.

Because anything before just directing with your skate, whatever, disallowed goals. So they basically said it's become a play now. Do a hand motion. Just so, okay. And the referee can figure out whether or not your intent was to protect yourself. But the way it's written now. You know, even though you get a great explanation, but the way it's written now,

I can see why that ruling applied. Because it doesn't matter, just as long as you get a perceived advantage in any way, shape, or form from a handplay, even accidental with your puck, even me or Brandon Hagle trying to stop something from going in my face.

What are you looking at? You're doing your thing now. Why did you bring multi-purpose handwork? No, no, Sammy. I didn't bring them. These were here. They were here. They were my name.

Okay. I thought they were. No, I'm starting to think you're looking at me like I'm one big germ. No. I think those are maybe for feuds. Oh, I guess, yeah. The germ man. Oh, yeah.

Well, he's feeling better. Yeah, he's feeling better. We got a few texts. Somebody texts in said Justin needs to send his jiffy guys to the Olympic arena so he can get done. Listen, they've been working on his house for two years. He lives in a shanty. For two years, they've been working on J.B's house. The revs, okay, this one's from...

Well, at least the commercial, according to the commercials, they're always fixing something at his house. Lots of people weighing in on calls. The revs have to call the ice in real time while on the ice. They call the game in real time while on the ice. Anytime there is a review, they should be watching it at regular speed on the screen.

90 seconds look at as many angles as you want to determine the outcome. I've tired of them slowing it down frame by frame from Keith and Langley. I love that. Because I agree. I think if you sit there and look at something long enough, in multiple slow-mo angles, you can convince yourself of anything on a play.

No, you're getting it right. You slow it down, you're getting it right. You slow it down, you've got a better chance to get it right. That's the magic words. Get it right. That's what they're doing it for. You got the technology. Killing us all waiting.

Well, okay, that's a whole different element. But you got the tech. So everyone at home and the referees also want it. Okay, after that San Jose Vegas schmazel, the ability to look back. They want to get it right as well because they don't want to look bad. They should speed it up, though. like a Charlie Chaplin movie.

Agreed. Some of them go quick, but every now in that Charlie Chaplin movie, geez. We got the Three Stooges guy calling in a Charlie Chaplin movie. This is a very topical references today. God. Okay, this one's...

Remember how fast they used to make those old movies? Yeah. That's the way they should do their video review. Or you put a nickel in at the X. And you can't create a thing. Nico, could you please tell that Mungi cake, Sammy, to stick to his daily conipions over the leaves and leave us Italian-Canadian Paizons alone.

So there you go. You can tell me to leave me alone. They're coming on my side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah. It was about World Cup soccer. We're a melting pot here in this country, Sammy.

I know. I know. What else do we got here? Actually, that's the States. Oh, okay. Melting pot. Yeah. Or whatever they are.

But that's their theory. What do you got for us, Sammy? At the trade deadline, do the Leafs revisit Braden Shen from Oakville Luke Yeah, they can But they cannot Like obviously we talked Gord about lack of assets

Yeah Coverage's a little empty Yeah If Doug Armstrong wants to do a little bit of a favor For Brad Tree Living and figure out How to do it without costing too much I don't think it can hurt Well, I mean you're looking

Okay again we're going to see what Troy Stetcher ends up being, but you can quite, I remember Stevie Thomas went to Anaheim, trade deadline? He was phenomenal. Like I just mean like some of these little ones because that's it. They can't go big anymore.

There's no ability to go big anymore. Yeah, I mean, like, what are they going to, what's it going to be that they trade for him? I mean, it's... But there's such a demand for Center Ice right now between him, Ryan O'Reilly. Cadry, of course, is at the top of the list. But the thing is, the Leafs set the market in the Brendan Carlo trade that when you take somebody who has term, it's a first round pick and a young asset like Fraser Minton.

So I don't know what the market will actually be, but that's the template right now that every team is looking for, it seems, in making that kind of trade. Which team in Canada has right now, like Ottawa lost the other night? I don't know what's going on with Pinto. He left the game with an injury. But who's got the most concern for you right now? Toronto's out of it a little bit. Edmonton with a big win, nine goals. Edmonton and Toronto last night looked like,

okay, that's what's supposed to be two of the top six teams or whatever they are in the NHL. It's been... Jets. It's been kind of baffling, right, to only have one Canadian-based team, usually in the playoffs. I'm not sure today.

But I think, yeah, the Jets are one that I wonder about, like, I may be a little too sweet on them, but Edmonton's going to be there. Toronto's going to be there. Montreal and Ottawa, I think are there. You know, I think, you know, I'm talking about the playoffs. And then after that, I mean, Vancouver and Calgary are kind of accepting there's a good chance they won't. Five teams in the playoffs. Yeah.

Well, Winnipeg would make four if they're not in. So you got Calgary, Vancouver, say not. in again at this particular point yeah and then if winnipeg then who i've always been sweet on but that would be four it's it's a very because when it they're out winnipeg vancouver i know but but when it's all said and done do you think five you think including winnipeg i'll say five yeah i'll still go with five that's a that's you got five that'd be music to a lot of people's ears right now yes a lot of people here uh i was just going to say here uh with the don't with the tall and daunting task of picking team Canada. Does Doug Armstrong now look at matchups as a tiebreaker, namely

against the U.S. from Omar and East Van. So when you're going up against the states, if you're going to have to beat them, if it's a tiebreaker, is that something you're going to look at because it's a short tournament? That's what he's getting at. Well, I think that's a kind of a foregone conclusion if you're Canada that you're thinking about matching up against the U.S. Right? I mean, that's not. Are you thinking or forenation? Like, where does the thinking become overthinking? Not to put, not to get ahead of yourselves, but that's, I'm sure when you think about the first nine seconds, you're thinking about who in my lineup is going to face the Kachuk brothers and

Well, yeah, but they'll, they'd all be suspended now, all six of those players. The NIH, the international rules, but, but the physicality is going to be a part of it. I'm talking about, you know, tit for tat, you know, shots, rabbit punches here and there, stick work, all of that. Remember Ovi's hit on Yager in 2010? Remember that? Like, wow. I mean, yeah, there's an element of that in the Olympics as well.

That was quite a hit. Yeah. All right, boys. What's on top with the Stellic Tricity House this weekend? Oh, the Chisholm curling bonds bill at the cricket club. The biggest men's bonds bill going on. I'm watching hockey as well, Toronto, Montreal and that and all the other action. What about you, Kipper?

Yeah. Is your tree up already? it's going to be up this weekend yeah there you go yeah I got curling tomorrow too Gordon do you really yeah I curl every Sunday morning at the High Park Curling Club oh nice every morning sorry you always said you were going to try kid yes I'm starting to start to get it starting to get it we should try I'll come out I'll come out with you okay

not tonight because it's no not tonight some other time you know our thanks to Jason Buchla who joined us in studio today who else do we have just us oh and then just you Gord Just you for coming in, filling in. I mean, you're welcome. For our Justin Bourne. Always a pleasure, Sammy. He was my stellar producer, whatever, for a couple of years,

and now you turned him into a grown-up man. Have a great weekend, everybody. See you Monday.