Real Kyper & Bourne - World Juniors Watch

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

Nick Kypreos starts the second hour by sharing his theory for how to fix the Blue Jackets with Justin Bourne and Sam McKee. Former NHL scout Jason Bukala joins them (4:47) to weigh in on the play from Fantilli this season, how Team Canada stacks up with other top units at the World Junior tournament kicking off later this month and surprises in the Calder race. Later, news and notes - Blues fans point the blame at the GM Armstrong, Luongo gets inducted into the Canucks' Ring of Honour and things go from bad to worse for the Penguins.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome into the real kipper and born show the national edition we are live on sports net and sports net 650 in vancouver and sports net 960 in calgary this hour of real kipper and born brought to you by bet 365 in a few minutes we're going to welcome in Jason Bukala, former NHL scout. Does a terrific job writing for Sportsnet.ca. You all right? Ah, you know. Need a sip of water. Nine months long cold.

Are you battling a little bit? I don't know. I'm fine. I feel fine. I just, you know, cough every 10 seconds. Is that okay? No, it's fine. It wasn't a year ago.

That would have shut this whole place down. I got ejected through the roof of the building a year ago. We were nervous 12 months ago when we heard stuff like that. It's like, for example, the Leafs, right? Now everybody's got the flu.

That would have shut down the whole league a year and a half ago. Time has moved quickly. Close my eyes and ears and carry on. Just prior to wrapping up our first hour, I wanted to get this in. We ran out of time with Aaron Portsline, who covers the Columbus Blue Jackets. But I left saying I know how to fix the Columbus Blue Jackets. Yeah, I'm sure the ownership in Columbus is fascinated to listen to.

I did also put this in my article I wrote for the Toronto Star Weekly, so please go and find it on my real Kipper Twitter X account. But it is Rick Nash. Rick Nash is going to fix it. Rick Nash. Fix Nash. You put Rick Nash in a position of being the face up front, and I think that's your first building block to get this organization going.

And it worked for Joe Sackick. It worked for Stevie Iserman in Tampa. What's his role there now? Brendan Shanahan's been on a run for the toronto maple leaves but that's the guy that needs to reconnect with that community i don't disagree and typically i don't love the idea that like a guy who is good at hockey is going to automatically be good at running a business you know making decisions however I think it's important for that community to be connected with the small amount of greatness they have.

He is an established hockey guy, a thoughtful person. I do see a connection. And it's not like he's home doing nothing, throwing his name in the hat. No, he's working for the club. Working for the club. He's been groomed for the last year and a half, two years. The director of player development.

He's scouting. Yeah. He's doing stuff. Do you think he would be capable this early of, say, managing things generally? I think what needs to happen is you need to surround him with someone that can help groom him in that position like a cap guy uh i bought more of a hockey executive that wouldn't just know that their job is to get this guy on board so what does that mean john John Davidson sticks around. John could do it. Yep.

Our good buddy on our Friday off the rails show, Doug McClain comes to mind as someone that's had a history there that knows that executive position inside and out. Go hire him for 12 months. Talk it. We lost. Talk it. We're in trouble.

Come on. Don't recommend that. Too good on It. We're going to lose Mac. We're in trouble. Come on, don't recommend that. Too good on our show. Okay, all right. Fair enough. Fair enough. But it's sad for me watching. I'm not listening to you when I'm on.

Yeah. It's sad watching the Columbus Blue Jackets right now. Yeah. When has it not been? I know, and that's the tough part. It's like you want that community to have something to connect this.illi is like can i have someone to work with here by the way the veronkov kid uh interesting fella 65 240 has more points or sorry more goals than johnny goodrow and as many points playing center for them so there's a bright spot but yeah they could probably use about 10 more bright spots and we said youngest team

yeah but like you know is that is that uh is that a great is that a great excuse no and actually jason uh buccala i know is listening right now but i'm just going to finish my thought on this all these young guys everyone has prospects and are they going to become difference makers for your franchise or just nhlers like i don't know that columbus being young is a saving grace for them anyway okay as you mentioned jason bukele now joins us former nhl scout uh and writer for sportsnet.ca hey jason just to kind of pick up on uh this conversation on on columbus what would it feel like to be a scout there for the last five seven ten years like you even though your name isn't out there on a daily basis like a yarmo or jd how would you feel right now looking at this organization as someone that somehow is linked to what you see today yeah it's top kipper i'm not

going to deny it. I mean, we kind of went through it a little bit in Florida, to be honest with you. The only difference, of course, was that we were kind of going through different owners and different strategies overall. I kind of feel like in Columbus, it's been a stable franchise in the back room, if you will,

for the most part, right? Like the ownership's been solid. They have outstanding facilities in Columbus. Like people people haven't gone to a game in columbus the facilities are outstanding the practice rink is right in the main building the downtown's a lot of fun my thing with that group right there and that organization is when you walk into the room like what are we you know what i mean like what are we as a group and and i think that that trickles on down right through the entire organization the scouting staff included you know like how do we identify as a columbus blue jacket what are we chasing what are we trying to establish and you know their leadership group you know that they have there now again you know

what are we and uh it just feels it just feels like a puzzle that got dropped out of the sky and it's sitting there and it, you know, when you put it all together, it might look like it's a really nice piece, but at the same time, it's like, how do we get this all put together?

Who's going to be smart enough to do it? Yeah, that was a, we just talked with Aaron Portsline. He's talking about their third line right now is Patrick line, a coal cylinder and Kent Johnson. He said the three guys, they just don't know what else to do with.

They're like, I don't know. You guys play together. They're like, I don't know. You guys play together. So kind of a tough spot for those guys to figure it out. But Fantilli's been really good there. He was saying that, like, were it not for Bedard, this guy would probably be getting a lot more love. Yeah, I agree with that.

I mean, he has been good. He's played to his identity, guys. He's a super high-end competitive kid. Plays the game fast he's a new breed kind of guy you can play the middle play the wing win key face-offs he's got some bump to his game so you know all the things you like to see in a young player again um you know entry-level deal your number one goes down the tubes i've been there done that with guys you know like when we had barky coming through it was like how long do we want to be on the clock with this guy before we start to get good because we need to get some traction

and i just columbus is tough to watch i think i heard kipper say it there the you know when i was waiting on all of you guys there they're tough to figure out they're tough to watch um and and it just seems like i don't know i don't know if there's not enough pressure if that's the word i'm looking i don't know what I'm looking for. I guess the way I'm answering it for you right now is exactly what the Columbus Blues and the Jackets are. I have no idea. Yeah, fair enough, fair enough.

Jason, the World Junior Championships just around the corner here. And in the first hour, we were talking about Cowan and Minton for the Toronto Maple Leafs. And yeah, that's a nice feather in the cap of your scouting staff. I would imagine when you can have a couple of players in that spotlight for two and a half, three weeks, a tremendous national spotlight here. I'm not here to debate who's deserving or not deserving,

but is there like is there like a, some maneuvering that happens, you know, for teams like would, would a team keep a player longer than maybe they would necessarily keep them because they think it'll help them make this team that happen. I think what you're kind of in a roundabout asking me is, is there any politicking or strategy?

And let me just tell you, absolutely, yes. I was at the camp yesterday, and a lot of my ex-colleagues were in the building. All the teams were there represented. And I can tell you, it's like a convention sometimes. It's a little bit of theater behind the scenes, Kipper. There's absolutely no doubt. And it's a fun time of year.

I do want to put it into perspective a little bit for everybody. We drafted Dennis Senko in the first round at the Dallas draft, and Alexei Hepinyemi out of Finland, who was playing in the Western Hockey League. They were 1-2 in the World Junior scoring in Vancouver back in the day, and they haven't had a taste of the NHL level yet. So it's a nice, it's a feather in your cap. You feel good about it, but at the same time, don't get too high,

don't get too low, because everybody's going to be thrust into different types of categories different roles like nate danielson might end up playing right wing for team canada he's a centerman all day in detroit as a prospect so um it's it's an interesting process what is the overall assessment what are your thoughts on this team canada roster as someone who doesn't watch oh any junior hockey i what am i in for what should I expect from this team, Canada? They're in tough, guys. They're in tough. This is a group that's going to play exceptionally hard.

Listen, the way that this team is being assembled is they're going to be an uber-competitive group. They're going to have a relentless type of mentality, a pack mentality, if you will. They're not as skilled as some of the other teams in this tournament. Like the U.S. is an absolute wagon. I don't know how the U.S. loses this tournament other than they get in their own way. That's how good they are.

I mean, I was going over their roster today, and, you know, Gavin Brindley, Cutter Gauthier, Isaac Howard, Ryan Leonard, Will Smith, Jimmy Stuggerud. I mean, you just keep going and going. They can literally roll 13 forwards at you that are first-line forwards. That's how good that group is. To go along with really high-end goaltending and Augustine and Fowler. And the Lane Hudson kid, the Montreal pick on the back end at Team USA. I'm going off on Team USA here a little bit.

But I'm trying to give you a little perspective. Yeah, it's a little perspective for you. So with our team here, Macklin Celebrini stood out by a wide margin at the camp. He can do it all, fellas. He's like a, he's got some McKinnon in him and some Fantilli in him. So guys that play fast and transport the puck, rip it from the flank, but really in the trenches too, they've got that pushback, that growl. Love those guys, right? You know, guys in sport, but they've got the growl to them

as well. So Celebrini's going to be carrying the load offensively, I think, which is going to be, you know, we'll see how that goes, because he's obviously a draft eligible. He's a little bit on the younger side. Our goaltending for Team Canada is going to be tested. We don't have any guys, like Scott Ratzlaff

played at the Ivanolinkka-Gretzky tournament two years ago in Red Deer. But other than that, those four games, our goaltenders don't have any international experience. So they're going to be tested. But having said that, the Russo kid out of Halifax, I think it's his job right now to lose coming out of this camp.

Boy, was he ever good. He's 5'11", you know, a bit. So, you know, he's only 5 eleven you know a bit so you know he's only 5'11 and a buck 72 or whatever but boy between the posts fronts to play really well athletic and quick so uh you know dustin wolf's finding a way in calgary this could be another kind of layer of that type of bull tender we're talking to jason buccala writer for the sportsnet.ca and also a former NHL scout. So whether or not you're drafted or draft eligible in this tournament,

how much can your performance over this stretch sink or swim momentum for somebody? Yeah, you know, this is a really good point. I think people should be aware of this, and it stands true as well at the end of the year, guys, at the Men's World Championships, okay? So when you're viewing world events like this, you have to put in perspective the role that the player has

and the type of impact he has in that role. Like, what's the buy-in? And I'll give you an example even from last year. Like, Fantilli was playing in the four hole. He kind of, of you know he swam up and down the lineup a little bit but he was mostly in the four sometimes in the three mostly a checker chipped in a little bit on the power play block shots and the penalty kill that tells you something doesn't it now of course he was draft eligible it was a little bit different for him but you know if i brought up nate danielson so let's just say nate danielson is entrusted to a scoring role here for Team Canada.

He's asked to win key face-offs and check one of the high-end lines for Team USA, for example. Little things like that. The buy-in is more important for me. Where's the compete? Where's the buy-in? Where's your three-zone detail? Don't ever have any sulk to you because nobody deserves to be here. You're proud to pull the jersey on. It a big moment do what you're asked and then that's going to resonate

with me uh of course as you know there's only one puck and skill guys they all want to have the puck so let's just see how it goes but play to the identity that the coaching staff wants you to play to and that will resonate with the team that's drafted you and if you're a free agent because there's a couple of those guys floating around uh you know or it's still draft eligible part of me haven't been drafted if you're one of those guys well you couldn't ask for a better opportunity books you're at a point in your career now you're the founder of the pro hockey group you continue to do work on you know this sort of industry how has it changed covering the world junior from when you started out it feels like it is a vastly different tournament than it used to be it really is i mean over the years uh i

really found right now that the current state of the world juniors last year's world juniors for example in halifax coming out of the pandemic and all the unusual circumstances we had in the world i really felt like we hit a home run. And two reasons why. A, obviously Canada won. It was nice on home soil. But B, the venue, guys. Like places like Halifax, even here in London. You know, Kitchener.

Let's throw out the Kitcheners of the world. Or even go out west to Saskatoon. Those types of places. Those are the buildings, the cities that deserve these types of events i really prefer i feel like it's got a community feel to it when we're hosting in canada in the edmontons the torontos the montreal's like montreal wasn't even selling out games fellas when they were hosting there okay i really like the community of it it gets the kids everybody involved the it's fun for everybody like even the the european teams are walking around downtown halifax last

year taking it all in people are asking them for autographs things that don't happen in the big cities that's that's what it's all about one more for me anyways uh just in terms of uh you know you mentioned goaltending moments ago here but i dare i say like the death of the star goalie from the National Hockey League to even the way that we used to look at Luongo and Marc-Andre Fleury when they were in their prime at the World Junior tournaments. Like, what is going on? Did we coach them all the same way that we just pick them like out of a hat we've really lost momentum between the pipe skipper haven't we like we really haven't had

that star goaltender that like i remember when i was growing up and i turned on the tv and i'd see like mario gosselin playing you know and these guys coming through playing the world juniors and and then you fast forward to the names you said, like Luongo and Winnipeg, you know. And I don't know, two things. A, the position is really expensive to play. And I think our model in Canada has to come up with a solution that's more affordable for families of kids that want to play the position, which is net. Because it's $1,500 to $2,000 to outfit a 12-year-old to play the game between the posts with proper protection.

And I do mean proper protection. I've seen organizations throw a kid between the posts with fluff on. He gets hit hard. He doesn't ever want to play the position again. So, you know, it's difficult. It's expensive. And I don't feel like our kids that are coming through right now, they don't have that poster, you know, that guy up on their wall that,

you know, the Kenny Dryden back in the days. And, you know, the guys like that where we were like, I want to be that guy. We're kind of missing that right now. There's a wave of U.S. guys coming through. The Swedes have got high-end goaltenders. Obviously, the Finns have been on a good run, even the Russians, right? So I don't know. We've lost momentum there. Hopefully, we. Obviously, the Finns have been on a good run, even the Russians, right? So, I don't know.

We've lost momentum there. Hopefully, we get it back, and time will tell. We'll keep you on the young guys in the league a little bit, look at the NHL. Just want to talk about the sort of Calder race so far, Conor Bedard pulling ahead. I think you'll agree that he's kind of the go-ahead guy. Is there anyone who has surprised you outside of Bedard

as a rookie in the NHL and gone by? You know, maybe this guy is going to be better than I thought. Well, Mityakov in Anaheim definitely sparked for me. Like he, you know, we all know how difficult it is to play big minutes in the National Hockey League on the back end. Like I remember when Ekblad came in with us in Florida, you know, as good as he was for where we were as a team, it's a heavy lift, guys. We all know that.

So I really think that Pavlo Metiakov and Anaheim's got a significant upside. And, you know, as you guys know, I started the year coolly for Calder. I didn't even make it to Christmas time, for crying out loud. I mean, it's a dart all the way. That goal he scored the other night in Edmonton, that's just, you can't teach that. It's ridiculous. Yeah, ridiculous.

Speaking of, it's great that Conor Bedard can come in and show the flashes of greatness that we're all going to look forward to throughout his career. But some of these top picks now all of a sudden are taking a lot longer to cook a little bit at the NHL level. And I'm watching by field. And I got to be honest with you, books. I'm watching them early.

And I'm like, I don't know what this guy's going to be. A third line centerman, a checker, a guy that ends up with seven different teams. And now you're like, oh, he's Ryan Getzlaff. And now it's like, man, he's big, he's strong, he goes to the net, he's got some good hands. But it took time. Slavkovski, same thing. It's taken time.

The numbers suck for him. But outside of that, you can sometimes see he's a big, strong guy. Yeah. And, you know, maybe we got to change the way we look at these type of players that are supposed to be franchise players right out of the gate. Absolutely.

I mean, I'm glad you brought up Byfield because it's a big power body, isn't it? And it just, he's a case study. So, you know, people who are sitting on the fence on Slavkoski should use him as a case study. Like, take a long, hard look at him. He plays the same sort of style. And here's the other thing I will say. The LA Kings got bad for a little bit,

but I didn't ever feel like they lost really what they were all about as a group, like inside the room. So I feel like he was insulated through his process pretty good. You know, Kopitar's, you know, still there. Quick was, you know,itar's you know still there quick was you know on the outside towards the end and things like that but i think to your point a power forward is undoubtedly going to take longer to nurture especially at the nhl level compared to a darter who's on the outside who's a skill guy emotion guy this game that we play today at the

nhl level is all about motion more than it ever has been it's a track meet, a motion guy. This game that we play today at the NHL level is all about motion more than it ever has been. It's a track meet. There's not a lot of heavy lifting in the trenches. So those heavier set guys, it just seems like they're taking a little bit longer to get to the finish line or closer to the finish line. And I'm okay with that. Boy, that byfield, I mean, LA's a great-looking team,

and he's part of the reason why. He's heavy, hard. And when he gets the edge off the rush with his length of his stick and stuff, no chance you're stopping that train going to the crease. It's so true. You're talking about, like, context, and you're looking at World Juniors players, the role they play, whatever.

Like, he's playing with Kopitar and Kempe on a very good defensive team. Like, that's a good spot for anyone, right? And it took Kempe some time, too, guys. Like, Kempe was a highly right and it took kempe some time too guys yeah like kempe was a highly highly regarded prospect it's taken him some time as well yeah so last one for me and i only ask this because tonight kipper and i are doing the columbus game uh this veron kov who i'd never heard of till 30 minutes ago six foot five 240 has 15 points what do you know about this guy listen i i tracked this this guy in Russia playing at Akbar's.

And I always loved his enthusiasm. He played the middle and the wing of the KHL. The KHL traditionally, you don't score a ton of goals or kind of points that is. Right. He's got great puck touch. And he finds it in tight areas. He'll go to the net. He'll set screens.

I was a little bit worried, right, because a couple weeks ago I was reading this story. He was homesick and blah, blah, he's he's been a nice story i'm not surprised uh going right back to my traverse city kind of players to watch in the rookie games he was the guy i wanted to watch very closely he is a giant like if anybody gets a chance to go down by ice level to watch him in warm-up he's a huge human being who can skate, and he's got great puck touch, and he finds pucks in the hard areas. It's a good story in Columbus. Maybe that's another piece for them to build on, or maybe not.

We'll find out. I know we gave Byfield in L.A. a lot of love moments ago, but Gabriel Velarde just stuffed it down their throats there last night with four points for the Winnipeg. He's playing all right. Yes, Sammy, we don't spend enough time in your lineup on Winnipeg Jets. Okay?

They deserve some love for last night. They do. It was a big win for Winnipeg over LA. Hey, Bukes, always great stuff, man. Really appreciate it. Anytime, fellas. Look forward stuff, man. Really appreciate it. Anytime. Fellas. Look forward to talking to you from a Gothenburg.

That'll be cool. When are you leaving? 27th. I'll be there from the 28th, right? Till the end of the tournament. So don't forget the time change. So if we're taping off air, don't be calling me at two o'clock in the morning over there.

Okay. Listen, 24, seven. You're available to the real Kipper and Bourne show. That was the deal. Yeah. I'll check the fine print.

Take care, boys. Thanks, Bukes. That's some great insight. I like that Voronkov looks like he's going to eat your lunch. Oh, yeah. Big meanie. See, I like it when he can take me into a boardroom full of scouts yeah because i i don't i can envision ownership or a general manager i just

can't get into what it would feel like to be a scout watching your i can i would imagine that there'd be some scouts at the world juniors watching their prospects who they already drafted and feel like you just gave birth yeah you're like all right this is my guy my future is tied to that person's success it's like the highest stakes gambling possible i have wagered my future on your success please go but please for the undrafted guys i'm sure like i don't know if you compare it to march madness in the states where it's like you know they play all these games and for me as a scout and i don't know how how would you like if you're weighing what it's like against cam loops on a thursday night or sweden in the semifinals, like how you perform.

How can you not be a little bit more enticed by him scoring two goals in a game against Sweden, right? Like that. Well, the other thing is like you can't cross-check. I know they do have cross-checkers, but like what is a guy's performance worth in the Q versus the O versus the dub versus the Finnish league versus whatever.

You finally get them the same pot and the guy stands out. You're like, oh, it's easy to draw the connection. I give it to doug mclean and i think we're gonna have him tomorrow on or off the rails friday but no uh uh the kopitar's draft year i think kopitar went yeah and uh who you went with gilbert brulee gle. In fairness, I don't... I just... I go, how much money did that personally cost you? I played against Brule when he was like 15 or 16, and he scored two or three in a game and got in a fight with one of our big D-men

and punched the guy's visor off his helmet, and I was like, oh, this guy. But he doesn't always... You take Kopitar to Columbus that year, Doug? You're Poyle for 30 years. I tell, Doug, you're Poyle for 30 years. I tell him, you're David Poyle for 30 years. That's $30 to $40 million extra. It's not like the wage that...

I'm going to remind him that tomorrow, too. You're going to remind him of that? Oh, yeah. Well, Gilbert Brule has the distinction of getting tossed out of an Olympic game for one of the greasiest hits of all time. I forget what year it was, but when the NHLers didn't go, he played for the Team Canada,

and he threw a Junior B hit at center ice, jumped into a guy and got kicked out of the game. So there you go, Gilbert Brule continued on. Not many IIHF open ice hits. No, it was a bad one. Not a common one. It was a bad one. So a common one. It was a bad one. So you mentioned the Jets there.

Like, yeah. They deserve the serious, serious love. Did you receive Velarde's backhand goal last night? It was filthy. It was really, really a good backhand. Dude, this Dubois thing's, you know, going to work out okay. I have followed him. He's been really good. I think Velarde's a good dude this backhand this Dubois things you know gonna work out okay I have followed has been really good I think Velarde's a good player like I Dubois not exactly lighting it on fire this year is he no he's a presence he's a presence and LA's a good team about him

is like this oh what he could become well he's not 22 yeah at some point at some point you are what you are which is like a less than point per game player who's large i don't know the jets um i have fallow and uh kapari yeah rasmus kapari and a second round pick that's a pretty good work no it's really good work and it looks better every game for Kevin Sheveldayoff. Yeah. Yeah, so he's got 12 points in 26 games so far this year for the Kings. He's a minus four. His issues was health, though, too, right?

Yeah. In L.A.? Did he not have a bad back? Dubois, too, right? Dubois? Yeah. A little bit. So will they be able to to because we didn't mention

this when it happened a couple days ago but Kyle Connors out six to eight weeks yeah that's monster for them that's a long time to be without him and can they like can they cover up that goal scoring he's an elite guy and for them to be able to survive 17 goals second best on the team is Shifley with 11 and then that, no one's got 10. You know, like they're not, they don't have a ton of scores. They didn't miss them last night. No. That's a great win.

The Ealers, I think, had four points as well. So, I mean, there's going to be some nights it's going to be dry. And that's the first thing you're going to think of. The Jets are two points out of first in the Central behind Colorado. And they have a game in hand on them. know they're going along pretty nice here hellebuck hasn't even been his best yet there's reason to believe the jets are a competitive team in a ho-hum division best team in canada uh no i gave them coaching of the year so far coach of the year yeah but it's coaching of the year coaching Coaching. That's pretty good.

That's right. That's pretty good. Yeah, the Canucks. Oilers are the best team in Canada. The Leafs are statistically now the best record, but yeah, I would probably give it to, God, it might be Edmonton. Yeah, it might be Edmonton.

You guys want to do some game time? Yeah. All right. My thing here, I should probably know it off by heart now, but I don't. It's game time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the don't. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's

never ordinary. Bet365 must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Got a couple for tonight. Haven't done this in a while, but a goal scorer. Tonight, Columbus versus Toronto. Let me guess. Who's a former

relief that's there no you always do that by the way you're shelling out a hundred tickets you're paying the price oh van tilly van tilly's gonna shoot one in the net tonight there's just no i cannot see anybody paying for a hundred of those tickets he's definitely not paying for a hundred i mean what's he make like he's on a rookie contract. That might be the whole deal. $950,000. Well, there'd be a bonus. It's a big chunk of his paycheck.

So, I like a same-game parlay of Adam Fantilli to score and the Leafs to win, which pays plus $450,000. That's a really good bet. Thank you. The one thing I would change maybe is just you never know if the shots are going to go in, but you know he's going to have a motor. Like, can you do shots over two and a half or something like that? Yeah. Columbus scoring

in the first period, minute and a half or a period and a half. Also, he said that, Portie said that Columbus has blown a lot of leads this year. The Leafs have come from behind. Oh, it's a perfect storm. Dozen times. Yeah. I think the Leafs they had the most come

from behind victories at least yeah all right that's our show prediction sleepy start leaves pull it out late yeah with they'll pull a goalie for three minutes and get two to tie it um the blues tonight are an underdog uh they're at home i think this is the first coach the first game since firing the coach. Give me a little bit of a dead cat bounce tonight for the Blues as a underdog against the Sens coming in. So we spoke yesterday about Berube getting fired, and we had Doug Armstrong clips. Yeah, we did.

But we didn't get to them. But you said they were really juicy. They are. I have not heard them yet. So we'll play a couple of them after the break. I'll get Derek to dig them up for me. But I cut three of them, and all of them, yeah, we'll play them after.

But all of them would be the greatest Kippers Clipper of all time if Shelby Keyes said that. They are direct message sending to his players. I just want to say that I actually am on the other side of your blues bet. Really? I can't have you talk about my Ottawa Senators like that. They rot. The Sens are good. No no they're not no i like the sense i feel so much more comfortable

saying that the sins are bad than i should have said about the the oilers listen the sins are in 16th in the east but how many teams are in the right piece but no good seven less games than the next closest team okay the sins are pretty good zans are gonna win okay i don't agree i think this is a blues a blues night uh we do not agree uh and vancouver tonight and we'll talk about that in our next segment roberto luongo night tonight so they're doing they're putting him into the ring of honor uh and they are playing the florida panthers so fitting so both of his teams the vancouver canucks are an underdog tonight, plus 105.

They'll be all inspired by big Bobby Lou up there. They're going to win. They're going to beat the Cats. Strong bone going to live tweet the event. So there you go. He's another guy that could, I think, is getting groomed.

To be in the... Sure. Yeah, maybe. I mentioned Rick Nash earlier. But isn't he involved with the Panthers? Yeah, no, that's what I mean. Yeah, like to work... Okay, you're not with the Panthers.

I don't know. I mean, I'm not firing Bill Zito. I mean, they're one of the best teams in the league. I think he's another type of face. What happened to Chris Pronger? He's doing commercials now. He's sitting on the dock at Muskoka with Leon Dreisaitl and Mitch Marner. He does feel like a guy that if he decides to get involved, he will.

Getting a shot in the nuts. He's got too much money. He's got way too much money. I got a lot of respect for that. Do you want to be a GM? No. You have so much money. He has like $150 million in his career. He made so much money. He doesn't need that. Alright, that was Game Time presented by

Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary. Bet365 must be 19+. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Okay, after the break, we'll pick up on a few news and notes around the National Hockey League. You just mentioned Doug Armstrong. We'll play a couple

of his clips from yesterday and also this story out of Minnesota where the Wild have fired or, I'm sorry, they're mutually parted ways. Mutually with Assistant General Manager Chris O'Hearn, which has led to an investigation. Or the investigation led to the mutual resigning.

One of the two. Also Pittsburgh. I want to talk to you about Pittsburgh because I did not get a good vibe out of them last night with the exception of Sid. I got lots to say. Malkin's washed. Let's go.

More of that after the break on the Real Kipper and Boren show. Teeing up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame with Ailish Forfar and Justin Cuthbert. Weekdays at 6 p.m. on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. All right. We are back. We're going to start with Doug Armstrong

because there's a lot of people upset in St. Louis about him being a bit of a, I don't know, scapegoat maybe. And would have liked to seen maybe a few more changes outside of Berube. But St. Louis, Nashville, I mean, these are teams. Minnesota, as we know, Bill Guerin goes into this season $14 million behind the eight ball because of the bought-out contracts of Ryan Suter and Zach Preze.

And there's expectations still that this team should win now. Yeah. Do they all think that they can win now? When everyone's bad, no one's good. When everybody's the same team, you think you should win. Why can't we pull ahead? A couple of quick fixes. I think Doug Armstrong is the game's foremost straight shooter GM.

Maybe Brian McClellan. Like, there's a few guys, but he's the guy to me. I believe everything this guy says. Yeah. I trust him as a hockey guy. So which one do you want to play first? There's a few guys, but he's the guy to me. I believe everything this guy says. I trust him as a hockey guy. So which one do you want to play first? There's three. Let's start with no one should feel safe.

How's that for a start? Number one. Whose players listen up? Do we have it? Roster changes are hard to make. That's not, I'm not, I've talked to teams. I've seen what's out there. I've seen what you're able to make. That's not, I'm not, I've talked to teams. I've seen what's out there. I've seen what you're able to do.

You know, nobody should feel safe in our group right now. I mean, player-wise, management-wise, obviously the coach has been changed. If we could move chairs in the Titanic, I guess we would. It's harder to do. So this wasn't a decision that was made. The players are doing their best. We just got a bad coach. That's by far not how I feel.

Yeah. Okay. Good start. What? I get what he's trying to say. But, like, there's probably a few guys that feel safe. Right? Yeah. Well, I think his point is stop it thomas and karu just signed eight-year

deals yeah they probably feel pretty safe i think i think they're okay well carry on to the clips and see how you feel after the the law the three pack so this is the uh the third this is a little bit longer but it's really amazing clip so it's a minute and 13 seconds. This is why he made the decision to fire Berube. This is the second clip there. Craig and I, like all managers, we talk every day. And I was in Europe for two weeks, and we would talk, and what's the message going to be today? And I always loved the message.

And then I would set my alarm for 3 a.m., and I'd get up and watch the game. And what the message was wasn't transpiring on the ice and and I look at games over the last little while where we outscored the opposition but we didn't win the game if that makes any sense like we outscored who we played but you didn't walk away saying, we outplayed that team. We won that game. There was more nights than not where I felt we didn't win the game. You're going to be the better team in this league and lose. That happens. Goalies stand on their head. Pucks hit a shaft. Pucks hit a post.

Things just go your way. But we didn't win enough small battles during a game to win enough games. Not by the score, but by the eye test of you were a better team. You know how I feel about that. Tell me. Well, I mean... Leafs implications here this year. We covered the Leafs, obviously, here in our first hour.

And you look at the standings, and it's really, really impressive. Their record's so much better than their wins. He can't be... There are maybe two handfuls of National Hockey League teams that probably feel the same way he does. I love that. I love that process, not results. I don't care if we won 4-2. They handed

it to us all night. That's a good observation. Let's just finish off. I'm sure Sheldon Keefe didn't love that clip. Don't tell them that can happen. And this is the third clip which I labeled. I can't remember exactly what it is, but he hasn't slept much. So let's play clip three.

I haven't really slept much since the Columbus game. Then the Chicago game was a sleepless night. They lost both. And then you hope that the Detroit game will be different, but your mind is starting to work when you're everybody's homecoming game. You know, it's not a good feeling. And the last three games, I shared it, I think, with the leadership group that when you get up and you read the clippings the next day

and the players from the opposition, the coaches are, what a character win win what a gutsy win i can't believe we did that last night we're undermanned we played the night before against arrested team so if they feel that way about their performance how would we feel about our performance not i personally didn't feel well about our performance. See, he's regarded as one of the better general managers, and I know when Kyle Dubas left, a lot of people in Toronto were like,

go get Doug Armstrong. Yeah. That was the top of the list for, I think, a lot of Leaf fans. Yeah. But, I mean, it is interesting, though, just the, you know, no one should feel safe and how miserable he is kind of with the players. There's something else at St. Louis. One more thing I'll add on is today Jordan Cairo was asked about his

relationship with Berube. And he says, I've got no comment. He's not my coach anymore. Which, to me, it's like just he's already been fired. Just be like, yeah, it's fine. Relationship is fine. Right? Just read between the lines.

Like, you answered it. You answered it by not answering it. I tweeted this and people were like, at least he was honest. No, he wasn't. He was the opposite of honest to be dishonest. Yeah, he was actually a childish way of being like, oh, it's fine. And all it does is fuel the fire now to get more of a story on it. That's all he's done here is make this a story.

How easy is it for him to be like, yeah, he's a good coach. He's moved on and now we're excited for Drew Bannister. Yeah, we're really excited for Kraken. Drew Bannister is fine. Or if he has a problem that he'd like to air, say it wasn't good and here's why. And address it. And now it's a story and you're not talking about it.

And it's like, can you just grow up and tell us? Not pretty. Or don't. They're a few years removed from that Stanley Cup year. And I like Shen a lot. Braden Shen there. Yes. For sure.

But outside of that, with O'Reilly long gone, and the one that stung was Petrangelo. Oh, yeah. That one stung. Pretty significant loss there. You know, Barbashev, they had all these guys. They had a lot of just like kind of gutsy guys. I loved that cup team.

That was one of my favorite teams, especially because they beat the Bruins. Well, they beat the Bruins too, so that was helpful for me. But yeah, that was an excellent, excellent team. All right, well, you should turn the page on St. Louis because there's lots of teams to get to. Okay, we touched on Minnesota, didn't we?

Luongo? Do you want to do this Luongo thing? Anything else to add on the Minnesota thing? Because I don't think we actually got to the idea that Chris O'Hearn. I just wonder if we're going to hear more of this. You know, something happened. Something happened.

There was two investigations into the executives or the front office of the Wild. This is from a report. Yes. Russo. Russo. Mike Russo in The Athletic reported that. And then they kind of parted ways. There's more to come on The Wild.

That's all I'm saying. What were you just suggesting? Luongo. Luongo. Luongo. And, I mean, this was a, I guess it's an old story now, but it got brought up today because he did a press conference, did a media in Vancouver because of the going into the Ring of Honor tonight.

And he was asked about the comment. Remember the, my contract sucks? My contract sucks, Interpressor. So we have the clip of him getting asked about that and his explaining. Do you want to hear it? Yeah, for sure. Okay, let's have it, Derek.

It was an incredible line in the moment, but with the benefit of hindsight now, did your contract suck? Well, you know, I don't even know how to respond to that, but I'll just give you a little bit of the background over that. I literally, 15 minutes before I came out, found out that I wasn't getting traded to Toronto. So I was a little bit emotional at that very time.

Didn't really have time to regroup. And, you know, obviously, you know, the contract didn't suck, but for certain reasons it did. I got paid. I didn't give any of it back, if that's what you're asking. It's still in the account. So he really wanted to be a Leaf, and that that was a brian burke no i think it was known as there's known as i think it was after berkey and it was known as when he took over okay

so he just found out he hadn't got traded to turn away but i remember this this was otani-esque i remember the time that it was like it was happening that luongo's going to the leafs there was there's jerseys like luongo leafs jerseys. I remember people buying them. Were there done deal? I think there were done deal reports too. Weren't there out there? I remember at the time thinking like, holy crap, it actually happened. The trade was I remember, I think it

was Caudry involved. I think there was maybe a first round pick and maybe Gardner. That was what I remember in my mind is what the trade was. God, that would have been a blockbuster. Disaster for the Leafs. It would have been, you think? For sure.

I don't think, I mean, think about when Luongo got traded to the Panthers again. He wasn't very good after that. He had some moments, but he wasn't like, he was at the tail end of his career. Yeah.

And then he's measured against what, like he would be hated here. Do you remember what the goalie situation was? Yeah. And that he's measured against what, like he would be hated here. Do you remember what the goalie situation was? Yeah. What did they have? Bernier. Would have been Bernier.

Okay. And it would have been, maybe it was Bernier when they went after it, but it was Reimer. It was all around that 2013 thing. Buddy,

he could have written a totally different story. It was 4-1, never happens with him. Maybe they're not at 4-1. it was after that. It was after the 4-1. I think all my timelines, like all my heartbreaks are in my head.

It's just a pile of heartbreak. Don't make me tease you. I think maybe part of the reason they got Bernier was because they didn't get Luongo anyways. I don't think it would have gone well. Bobby Lue is a leaf. Totally different history. I think Bobby Lue is a leaf. It could have gone bad for him,

and he could have had a huge market that didn't love him. Yeah. I really do think that. Or he could have ended up being the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leaf by now. Whoa. I mean, sure. Yeah, I guess.

Meanwhile, he stayed in Florida and got involved with the Panthers. Maybe... Doing pretty well. So, Derek just buzzed in my ear that the trade was two first 2013 first 2014 first yeah okay that's what it was sorry that was and they couldn't fit and they couldn't my add brain he started talking my ear and i was dead so they had it all figured out

except how the money was gonna work derrick's talking to me. What did you just say? Right? So if his contract sucks, that's the reason why they couldn't fit it in. Yeah. So it was. That was the frustration. It was. Don't you fit it in first before you start throwing prospects around

and draft picks? Yes. The 2014 first that they would have traded ended up being William Nylander. Ooh, buddy. The Canucks could have had old Wild Bill. JB, very busy man on the network tonight. You're with me with the Columbus Leaf game regionally here.

Yeah. Last night, nationally, Pittsburgh and Montreal. What did you see? Trash. Trash. I have been on this show all year being like, the Penguins are coming. They're too good not to.

They have too much talent. I got to tell you they maybe it was just last night i've watched them i don't know half dozen times this year i've been like ah they didn't have it tonight no they just like sid is dragging the team crosby still so good how about that pizza slice of carlson on the savard first goal. And that was his second bad turnover of the period. The other one might have been worse. Malkin tried to, like, put it through a guy's feet at center ice. He's the last man back.

He was, you know, brutal. Malkin doesn't have the paw. His legs aren't there anymore. And that shootout. After the first four shots were all beautiful goals yeah like bar downs and sid scored a nice one latang scored a beautiful one caulfield yeah and then it was just a beer league shootout for it was like 10 rounds shoot it at the other goalies pad hardest this is a hobby horse of mine but like like, just go in fast and go high backhand. Like, why are you just weaving, weaving, like slowing it, weaving.

Are you trying to get us canceled? No, let's weave it around. Let's go as slow as possible. This is might be the thing you're wrongest on. And just shoot right in the pad. Speed, high backhand. Can you? Low blocker.

Works at Beer League every time. No. Can you videotape yourself? No. From your men's league and then we can show it to the national audience? And we'll send it to Vinny Henestrosa and tell him what you think you should do.

Why can't you be more like Sammy from beer league? Just stop beating it into the pads. Make a move. Yeah. I do think that everyone has kind of perfected the idea of bringing it out wide. You're stick to the middle by the time you're at the goal. You have 38 options from there.

So when you're going watching this and you're looking at your watch, can you just get home, please? And then we get a reverse roundhouse to the neck of the goalie. Was there any part of that stretch of watching all these shooters going, okay, we got to fix this. This can't happen again. Well, I think they tried to fix it with the yeah spinning back heel to the goaltender but no i still was like i don't know did anybody leave

during the shootout you think everybody stuck around yeah cosentino went home no we all hung in there all right boys all right just like that our show's over and once again we've solved nothing aaron port'sline from The Athletic. Will you guys be okay without me tomorrow? Where are you going tomorrow? Oh, yeah, no McKee tomorrow. I'm going to London to watch the attack of the London Knights. His favorite team, the London Knights.

Big guys. Did we give you permission to do that? No, the boss did, so. All right, Jason Bukala, always terrific on our show. Have a great night, everybody. If you get a chance to give us a rating and review, do it. We'd love to hear from you. We're back again tomorrow on Real Kipper and Born.