Real Time with Bill Maher - Ep. #447: Roger McNamee, Zooey Deschanel

Episode Date: January 27, 2018

Bill’s guests are Roger McNamee, Zooey Deschanel, Michelle Goldberg, Ro Khanna, Rick Wilson  (Originally aired 01/26/18) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Night series, Real Time with Bill Maugh. You're happy because this Russia scandal is really heating up. If you see, this came out yesterday. This is pretty big shit. Trump ordered the special counsel, investigating

and Robert Mueller fired last June. Just a couple of weeks after Mueller started his job and he only backed off after the White House counsel, Don McMahon, said to him, you know this isn't a TV show, right? And listen, listen to Trump's excuse why he thought he could fire Robert Mueller, because Robert Mueller apparently used to be a member at one of Trump's golf courses,

and he quit, and Trump never gave him his money back. Seriously. So this is not over Putin. It's over putting. It's, that's what's going to bring down the government. Wow. First, Stormy Daniels, now Mueller? Is there anyone Trump hasn't fucked on a?

golf course. I tell you. And, you know, this is interesting. Since Mueller's investigation is largely about whether Trump attempted to obstruct justice, now that includes

Trump's threats to fire Mueller himself. So, yes, the man with the great brain, the stable genius who's like really, really smart, has threatened the job of the guy who was investigating. after firing the last guy who investigated.

Today, Don Jr. said, gee, I thought I was supposed to be the family dipshit. I... This... So this... This happened last night. The story breaks during Sean Hannity's show. Hannity, of course, since it's bad for Trump,

instinctively denies it. A few minutes later, they actually report, no, it's confirmed. So Hannity throws right away to a high-speed chase. And after the car crashes, the suspect gets out and he's white. Oh, damn, Sean. Some days you just can't win, huh, buddy?

But really, I mean, all over the right-wing media, they are all in on this idea that Trump is not the perpetrator of a crime. He's the victim. It's a corrupt FBI hell-bent on taking down Donald Trump. It's the deep state people. Oh, for fuck's sake. It's the deep state is not going to bring down. The deep friar might bring down Donald.

And then, oh yeah, you know, Congressman Devin Nunes, Republican representing the District of Trump's colon. He has a memo that he can't show anybody, but it's all in there, everybody. And Rush Limbaugh, oh my gosh, Rush Limbaugh is so in on this. He said the CIA probably fake. the evidence of weapons of mass destruction back in the Bush era to trick Bush into invading Iraq.

And kids, that's why you should stay off the opiates. You know, stick with the pot and maybe a beer now and then. Now, listen, our country is such a laughing stock now that Jeff Sessions, our Attorney General, is in Davos, was they just left with Trump the other day. This is Jeff Sessions' I'm not making this up. He said, other world leaders are clearly treating him as an equal

with respect as one of them. This is where the bar is now for the American presidency. Other leaders saw our leader and didn't point and laugh. They let him sit at the table and eat with them. Yeah, Trump was in Davos, which went quick trip. He got right down to business. He met with the head of the African Union, who was also the president of... Rwanda and charmed him. Boy, he offered to elevate Rwanda status to most favored shithole. And Trump has a new immigration

plan. Have you heard this? The dreamers can stay if he gets $25 billion for the wall, which used to say would cost $8 billion, and Mexico would pay for it. But his followers aren't stupid. Don't say that. No, no, no. And it also

came out that Trump rejected the Democrats first offer to fund the wall because he wanted to preserve build the wall as a slogan in 2020. See, the wall is kind of more valuable to him as an idea than a reality, like his marriage. I think the love light may have got out there. You know, it was their anniversary this week, their 13th anniversary. Of course Trump said the wrong thing. He said, 13 years together. I would buy you all over again.

Actually, it's sadder than that. Actually, they didn't say anything. They didn't have dinner. No tweets back and forth about that. Nothing. And Malani was supposed to go to Davos with him. But at the last minute, didn't. They said, scheduling and logistical reasons.

Yeah, that's bureaucrat talk for. Why don't you take the porn star you were fucking? Malani, a baby. You gotta knit yourself a pussy hat. I'm telling you. Now, this is how bad it has gotten, I am not kidding. Instead of going to Davos with Donald Trump, her husband, Melania, went to the Holocaust Museum to cheer up.

She signed the guest book, I know the feeling. I mean, and she lit a candle to mourn the dark day two weeks ago when Trump's doctor said he was in good health. Then it was off to lay a wreath on the tomb of the unknown trophy. wife, but you know who's not mad at Donald Trump for screwing a porn star? The evangelicals. Did you see this? Their head dude said, we give him a mulligan.

A mulligan. One little blemish on an otherwise spotless Christian life. I'm not sure mulligan is what gets you from Trump's life to a life of a decent human being. I think the word for that is reincarnation. All right. We got a great show for you. We have Congressman Lowe. I'm Michelle Goldberg and Rick Wilson are here,

and a little later we'll be speaking with the dollars and a delightful Zoe de Cheneau is back, stage. The first off, he co-founded the investor group Elevation Partners, now speaking out against the dangers of social media, Robert, I'm, Robert, Roger, McNamee, Roger, I'm so sorry. How you doing? Great to see you.

I see you all over TV. You're not running for president, are you? Not yet. No. You never know. You are sounding an alarm. We have that in common. We have been talking about the same thing, the dangers of Facebook and the phone, the little phone, and what's that done to us?

And let's just start with the term brain hacking, because if you just have to know one term and what it is and why people like us are screaming about this, I would say it's encapsulated in that term. You explain it. So my partner Tristan Harris, who was a guest of your earlier last year, coined the term because what he discovered was that essentially the thing. media companies have done forever, they try to get your attention and get you to pay attention to what they're doing to sell products through advertising. When they applied that on a smartphone, it changed everything. Suddenly you had the ability to addict people, and if you had them addicted, you could change what they think. You could implant ideas. Addicted to what? Essentially, whatever they... Likes, right? Addicted to a feeling of, ooh, they liked my lunch.

Yes, that you can certainly do that, but it gets much worse than that. No, actually what happens is they create create these things called filter bubbles. And the notion is they put you in groups. They find out what you like. And they appeal to your fear. They appeal to your anger. Why? Because when you're angry or fearful, you are more engaged.

And the ads are something you pay more attention to. You do more stuff. You see more ads. They can generate more revenue. When you're in that position, what they do is they encourage you to join these groups of people who are just like you. Some of whom are Russian bots. Some of whom are, you know, other kinds of things that are not real. And when you're in that place, you think everyone agrees with you.

So when I drive to work, I see people in the crosswalk looking at their phone. Yeah. Or on the sidewalk. What are they looking at? What are they looking at? That even in the crosswalk. The way I think about it is this way. It's a beautiful day and there's people and things to see.

It's worse than that, Bill. What happens? I'm there. There are celebrities right by there. They're looking at you. They have a webcam. Honestly, what are they? look, because I don't know what I would be looking at in that

situation. Well, let me ask you question. Do you have a smartphone? Yes. Okay, so when you wake up in the morning, how many minutes go by between when you wake up and the first time you check the phone? Oh, half hour? Okay, so that's way more than normal. I'll bet half the people in this audience check their phone the first two minutes they're up and they put it down with two and a generational thing. I get so much shit when I criticize social media.

The kids don't like it when daddy shits on their toys. No. They like it better when you clean it up. Okay. All right. But I'm doing it for them. I've seen the statistics. It's making them sadder.

Dude, when we were young, we didn't listen to our parents either. Okay, so I don't think that's the right tactic. Yes, it makes you sadder. Okay, I'm not really a daddy. It was just a metaphor. I'm not either. So we're perfectly qualified. Okay.

But I have seen this. This is not making people feel better about themselves. It's much worse than that. With little kids, this notion of the fear of missing out, these products like Instagram and like Snapchat, which tell you all your friends are together someplace and you're not there. Right. And that is causing little kids not only to feel left out.

It's a form of bullying. And eventually some of them actually go so far as to kill themselves, right? You've seen a big rise in teen suicide. So we work with a group called Common Sense Media because they're focused on how to protect children from the dangers of products like Facebook and Google. And it's a hard problem to solve. That's why we're trying to get people to talk about it.

We don't have all the answers. today, but what we do know is the problem is not only here, the problem happened before we even knew it. It was a little bit like food in the 50s when they gave you all this convenience. Everything's really convenient, easy, and fun. Then you find out later it's full of sugar, salt, and fat. Well, think about this technology as being full of sugar, salt, and fat, and it's got an addictive thing like cigarettes. So that's a tough combination. And I think the depression factor is also because... It's huge. It's a little like not getting sunshine. You know, in Scandinavia, the suicide rates. are big in the winter because they've an hour of sun

a day. And it's like if you have no human contact, I think it's very similar. If you're always on a screen... Well, and Bill, the issue is here, the problem is not social networking per se. The problem is the advertising business models. Because what we've discovered is the first 10, 15 minutes of usage,

people really are feeling better. They love to know what their family's doing. But if you stay on it long enough, it keeps throwing things at you designed to make you either afraid or angry, and then you're really... Now, okay, but the big news last was that Zuckerberg says he's changing the Facebook model and it's going to have less public content, less stuff from news organizations and corporations and businesses.

Is this real? Is it going to change anything? No, it's total nonsense. Total nonsense. No, it's total nonsense. The simple way of looking at it is his prescription for getting well on Facebook is to do more of the exact thing that makes you less well. And it's worse than that because if he had done that change in 2015, it would have had the effect of magnifying the Russian interference in our election. Right. Well, and that's the one sentence I wish the people who argue with me about this would understand.

Russia used Facebook to elect Donald Trump. Obviously, that wasn't the only factor, but that is a true statement. Is it not? Russia used Facebook to elect Donald Trump. And it started earlier than you think. What they really did is they got him nominated. Because people get their news from Facebook, which is itself scary. There are two things that people don't realize. That isn't a news source. Russia did not hack Facebook. They used it exactly as it was intended. And the second thing is that the Russian technique was for years ahead of time, they were promoting these highly corrosive topics, things that would cause more anger in the country and divide the country.

And they did this for three or four years, and Trump comes along with all the same issues. He's focused on immigration. He's focused on guns. He's focused on white supremacy. Those are the very things they had been promoting. And so he inherited all of that investment. And he got himself nominated.

and then once he was nominated, they did more stuff, and then obviously chaos took place. And the problem we have is that with all the focus on trying to prove that there was collusion and all that stuff, we've forgotten it. Hey, wait a minute, Facebook is still there. People are going to use Facebook in 2018 and 2020 the same way. Now the Russians have shown you how to do it,

so literally, bazillions of people are going to be doing this. You were a tutor, a mentor to Mark Zuckerberg. I mean, you advised him. I tried. He was going to sell it, right, when it was worth way less than... No, he never wanted to sell it. The people around him wanted to sell it. It happened.

Look, I was one of his mentors for a period of time. I helped him on a couple of really important things, like not losing the company, bringing in Cheryl Sandberg, things that really did matter. And then my time was done. That was 2010. I'm not really paying attention until the beginning of the Democratic primary. And I start to see things that you can't explain,

except somebody is messing with Facebook. And then I see things that aren't election-related that are just the same way. Did you talk to him? So here's what happened. I reached out to them in October of 20th. 2016. And I'd written an op-ed, and instead of publishing it, it listed seven different things that I thought were systemic problems with Facebook that could only be fixed by them. They had to go in and change the way the company worked. I sent it to him and to Cheryl, 10 days before the election.

They were really polite and really firm, not our problem. Their basic notion was that... So what about now? Is he going to do anything now? I mean, he's worth $75 billion? What is it with these guys? You know, he wears the same shirt. every day. You know, these tech companies, they think they're better than regular companies because they've got to fuck a nap room or something like that. But really, they act just like

an oil company when you talk about the greed and the sexism and every other bad thing. You can't call this guy and say, come on, you were supposed to be different. You're, you're big, meet the new boss, same as the old boss. The first rule, when you have a political promise, to reach out to the people who disagree with you, the critics. They've never done that. They aren't talking to me.

they aren't talking to anybody. They think they've got it all figured out. And the sad part of this is I'm convinced there's a better way to run Facebook. They could be more profitable, more successful without poisoning the brains of their users. Right now what they have is a parasit... Or how about if they were less profitable? What if he's only worth $65 billion?

Then he's not going to listen to you, okay? I think I have to come to him with a better idea because it's the only way to get him to listen. Because we need their help to fix the problem. You go do it. I'm going to do my best of them. Thank you very much for enlightening us. I'm pleased Joe Roger. All right, let's meet our panel.

Thank you. Hey, how you doing? Okay. Welcome aboard, everybody. Here they are. He's a Republican strategist whose documentary entitled Everything Trump Touches Dies.

Comes out this summer. Rick Wilson is over here. She's an author, journalist, and the New York Times' newest full-time columnist. Wow, congratulations. Michelle Goldberg. And he was a... Obama's deputy assistant

Commerce Secretary now represents California's 17th District. Congressman Roe Kana, Congressman, how you doing? Okay. Don't again to send us your questions for tonight's overtime, so we're going to answer them after the show on YouTube. Let's talk about Mueller thing. That was pretty big

yesterday. I was very surprised. Your paper got the scoop, right? Yes, we did. That Robert Mueller, he was, Trump tried to fire him in June. Here's what I want to ask. Senator Ron Johnson, he's You must have some familiar. He's a Republican from Wisconsin.

I was thinking in the monologue. Trump's not the perpetrator of the crime. He's the victim. Ron Johnson says, what this is all about? A corruption at the highest levels of the FBI. The secret society. We have an informant talking about a group that was holding secret meetings of off-site,

and it turned out to be one text between two FBI agents who were having an affair. And it's like it's not even the party of Trump anymore. It's the party of Alex Jones. The senator is the guy with the sandwich board sign on Hollywood Boulevard. The challenge is you don't even know how to respond to people who don't believe in journalism or facts. But here's the irony.

You've got a body, Congress, that's got 11% approval casting stones at law enforcement. You know, there was a congressman talking about the purge of the FBI. I'll tell you, there's only one institution people want to purge of, and that's the United States. We're probably the last institution after the cost of the time. If you look at what they're really saying about what happened, which is not easy because nobody really lays out the whole counter-narrative of what they, of the conspiracy against Trump.

But if you kind of piece it together, they think that Russia attacked Trump, that right, that Russia and Hillary used Christopher Steele to channel disinformation that would malign Donald Trump. And yet you never see any of them get mad at it. Russia for this, right? I mean, you certainly, if they believed even half of this, you would think that they would want

to encourage sanctions, that they would want to encourage a different foreign policy. Well, wouldn't you at least be suspicious to say you, there's no collusion, because Trump ends every sentence with no collusion. Happy birthday, no collusion. Merry Christmas, no collusion. But that, okay, that you,

the Trump people, and Russia have the exact same goal. Isn't that suspicious? It's odd, isn't it? You know, and this lurid set of fantasies they've drilled into their heads, it's like Ron Johnson's a combination of day drinking and watching eyes wide shut too many times. This whole thing is so absurd and so over the top. It's like there's no self-referential moment where they go,

do I sound like a complete, like a nut? Right. Because every day these things have to, and because Trump keeps stepping on it, they have to make it worse and worse and worse. Yes. It's a hypocrisy, right? Okay. Here you are the Republicans not even acknowledging Hoover's role,

where the FBI actually spied on Dr. King. They defend that FBI, but now they're outraged that the FBI somehow spying on Donald Trump. I mean, it's just absolutely hypocritical. Oh, they want the deep state when it's hunting brown people to deport, just not protecting us against Russia. Well, let's talk about that. Now, there was a lot of repercussions about the government shutdown

that happened for, how long was it down? A day? Like three days. Three days. Okay. A lot of people were mad at the Democrats for doing it in the first place. A lot of people were mad at them for what Chuck Schumer for caving. I think you wrote that article.

Okay. But I saw protesters outside of Schumer's house, and I never used to see that. I've seen it a lot, like in the last few years. It's become a thing. If you don't like something a lawmaker or a judge do, go to his house. I think this is another pulling at the threat of civilization. You know? But do you know where Chuck Schumer lives?

I mean, this specifically. It doesn't matter. It does matter because it's a busy street in Brooklyn. It's like a busy plaza with a lot of people. It's not like somebody's going on to his lawn and waking up his wife, you know. But it kind of is. They're outside of his brownstone.

I mean, and I've seen them do it at other people's houses. And they've been doing it a lot. I mean, people have been protesting outside of Chuck Schumer. Why? Why? Because you don't want somebody making a decision based on whether a brick's going to fly through their window. Yeah, but nobody's been intimidating.

And you've also had... And you've also had people when Schumer does something. something right come outside of his house to have thank you Schumer rallies. I mean, some of these rallies have been- Can we leave his house out of it? Even the mafia doesn't go after your wife. Some of these rallies have been organized at his synagogue because they have, you know, the synagogue is a site where a lot of people do resistance meetings. And so these are his neighbors and they feel like he should represent them. And, you know, I mean, the thing is, is that it worked. Early on, Chuck Schumer was being very conciliatory towards Trump, was saying that he was going

to vote for some of his nominees. And he found out that his neighbors. And he found out that his neighbors and his constituents were furious about this and he changed his tack. Okay. And when you sign up... That shouldn't have been why he changed his tack because they were on his driveway.

When you sign up to run for office, you sign up for the messiness of democracy and look at how desperate those kids are. I mean, when you have Jose Garcia at the Detroit airport, Cindy, his wife is crying. His 12-year-old kid is crying. ISIS is telling Garcia,

you go back to Mexico and don't come back for 10 years to see your kids. if that was your family, wouldn't you be out there protesting for everyone in power? Well, I mean, you're bringing up another... I mean, I agree about ICE. You know, I mean, Trump may not be Hitler, but ICE is the Gestapo. And they're acting there. But I also...

Tell me why, of all the issues before us, why DACA is the one... I'm with you on the issue. But why, of all the issues, this is the one where we shut down the government? Because there are other issues when they... pick Neil Gorsuch, when they wouldn't give rather Obama his Supreme Court pick for a year. Maybe you shut the guns down over that. It's a lot emotional issue, but

it's because, in part, the Democrats are holistically bad at picking issues that move people they don't already have. They've already got, everybody who agrees on DACA, they've already got those voters. They need to go out, especially in a year where they've got a potential to tie the

Senate, they need to go out and work voters that are in that, those Democrat males that voted for Trump, who are not traditional Republican voters, those low propensity folks, they need to expand the base. Base plus is the way politics really works in the end of the day. You know, Trump is making the category mistake of only appealing to the base, the 33%. And if the Democrats just pitch to DACA and just pitch that, I'm not seeing you wrong

on the issue. I'm just saying the practical nature of the politics and the chemistry of the politics, you have to do something that gets you outside of the people who are already supporting you. Every one of those people that are motivated by DACA is already voting Democratic. They chose DACA. They didn't choose DACA because they said, what issue should we make our final stand on? They chose it because there's this deadline that Trump imposed on March 5th. Sure. And there is, and there's a budget bill.

Right, and they have this budget bill that they're really desperate, you know, they're desperate to pass something besides a CR. They want to increase military funding, right? And then, and personally, I think, I mean, they're not going to shut down the government. They're still the Democrats. They believe in the government. You know, but you had also these sort of personal bits of leverage over Trump and that he really wanted to have his dumb party at Mar-a-Lago. And he really wanted to go to Davos and have all the plutocrats, you know, who used to snub him, finally, treat him with respect.

And he, you know, doesn't want to preside over a shutdown government when he gives his first state of the union. So they had a bit of leverage there that they gave up too quickly. When the polls actually showed, they kind of overthink it. They said, oh, you know, people are going to, they're so worried about swing voters and they're so worried about Trump's base. People were blaming Republicans for the shutdown. And Rick, one point is, this is not actually a partisan issue. Gorsak was a partisan issue.

Here's what we need to remember. 34 Republicans in the House of Representatives want to vote on the Dreamers. The majority, 84% of Americans want to vote on the Dreamers. There's one person who's responsible for this shutdown. And it's not Chuck Schumer. You know who it is? It's Paul Ryan. If he gives us a vote in the House of Representatives, this crisis would be over.

Well, and you know as well as I do that Paul is is caught in the horns of a dilemma. He's got the Freedom Caucus guys on the one side and the people that are going to lose their seats on the other, and he can't seem to make up his mind on who to piss off. So let's pick 16% instead of 84% of the American people? Could I just add about the government shutdown? The government shutdown is actually underway anyway all the time,

since Trump took office. I was looking at some of these statistics, not filled more than 600 vital jobs in the executive, branch. The State Department, they cut by 8%. I think they just took that out of their ass, right? There's just no reason for that. It sounded like research. 10% that would have been too obvious. For the top jobs in the Veterans Administration, I mean, the Consumer Financial

Protection Bureau, you know how much money they asked to fund that this year? Zero. They asked for zero. And, you know, an echo terrorist, head of the EPA, that kind of a thing. This is a government shutdown in motion. Okay. I just want to show you some pictures here from the Women's March that some of these you can't show on other shows. That's why I really want to show this.

But did anyone go to the Woman's March? Wow. Very interesting. And they marched all across the country. And some of them had some very funny signs. I love this one. Obama, are you coming home soon? The babysitter is weird.

Anything you can do, I can do bleeding a woman, has it's a real. Melania, ho to ho. Kill that John in his sleep. And embrace yourself. I've saved the best for last, but this is an older woman. Look at hers. I'd call Trump a cunt, but he lacks depth and warmth. So, but you've got to love Donald Trump.

He's nothing if not thick. tweets out, beautiful weather, a perfect day for all to march celebrate the historic milestones. He's talking about his economic

that has taken place lowest female employment in 18 years. This idiot thinks they're celebrating him. Well, we actually found there was a small enclave in the march

of Trump supporters. He did win white women in the election. So would you like to see something in their signs? These are the women who actually like Trump.

A proud female graduate of Trump U. See this? Right there. She's very proud. Democrats are dildos, I want a real pricked. Oh, well, there is. The news is faker than my orgasms. Is that my law?

I like big butts and I cannot lie. Taking back the country we originally took. Life number four. Trump may not be a woman, but knows what it's like to have two boobs. And, of course, cat ladies need pussy grabbers. All right, well, she is the Emmy and Golden Globe nominee star of the new girl who with her husband,

Jacob recently created The Farm Projects for Real Healthy Eating. Zoe de Chanel, ladies and gentlemen, what a great pleasure to meet you. You too. Been a fan of yours, enjoyed you in movies and television. And I know your show is ending. That must be a little bittersweet. Yes, yeah, but good to focus on new things.

Well, you know, the new girl and new things. I wanted to have you on because we share this passion about food and I guess the first thing we always have to confront with this is people watch sometimes and they go, well, look at those Hollywood types, you know, talking about that expensive whole foods food, you know, what's wrong with regular food? And how do you make it not an elitist thing just to want good, healthy food?

Well, I think it's starting to... starts as something that we all can relate to. I'm a mom, and I had a totally different relationship with food before I got pregnant with my first daughter, Elsie. I had a very selfish relationship with food. I was... I was... Young. I was young. I was stupid. Yes.

When we're young, we can get away with eating shit. That's really what it is, right? And I only thought about, does it taste good? or does it make me fat? Will it make me bloated? Very silly things. And when I got pregnant, I started thinking about food

in a different way because my daughter's health was in the balance. So I started researching what I was eating. So what did you throw out and what do you eat? What do you suggest? What should people be asking about food?

Well, I don't think anyone wants an actress to tell them what to eat. But that's why you're here. You're an actress telling us what to eat. No, we're about transparency, because there's very little transparency in the food system, and we want to empower consumers to ask questions about the food that they eat. Like what questions?

Like, are there hormones in this meat? Are there antibiotics in this meat? Right. How were these vegetables grown? How far did they travel? But I think it's more basic than that. I think lots of folks are like, what's wrong with hormones and antibiotics?

Hormones, isn't that like makes athletes good? That's a decision. That's a decision that's up to them to make. But once you know, you might not want to make that choice. It's all about... Yes, you wouldn't want antibiotics in your system, unless you absolutely need it. Unless you've been prescribed them by a doctor, but not if the pig doctor prescribed them to the pig. Right?

Right. That's the problem, is that they give it to the animals because it makes them healthier and fatter, and, of course, makes more money for them. Well, it makes them fatter. I'm not sure if it makes them healthy. I'm not a scientist, so I'm not a scientist. No. I can't. Exactly. Well, I am, Joey. Luckily, one of us is a scientist.

But we want to encourage curiosity on the part of consumers to interact with your food and get in touch with your food. Interact. Yeah, we'll go to the farmer's market. Pick up the food. Take a bite. I thought you meant. Taste it. Sex. Not sex. Don't. Have sex with your food.

Not with your food. But people incorporate food and sex. And I always say, then you're doing it wrong. You're just, you're sex life. And that's not what we're supposed to be talking. Yeah, yeah, we're talking about food. Yeah, fluid. Like what's this thing you're doing with attention? Because I'm very involved with them and I love them.

I know. That's wonderful. You have a little web show there that's how, what does that teach people? It's called Your Foods Roots, and it's basically a very short series. We made five, and then I've made a few more with attention. that are just about different topics, different food topics, like bread, fish, food miles. I had a doctor say to me once,

he said, if I got only three words to say, to get people healthier, it would be, don't eat bread. But... Why is bread bad? Bread isn't bad. Bread is bad. Bread is bad. Bread is bad.

I think is how you look at... Well... Well, it depends on, I guess you could make a good bread. We don't make good bread. I'm not telling anyone what to eat, but there are good versions and bad versions. No, bread is shit. It really is. First of all, it's full of fungus.

What about fungus? What do you think about fungus? I don't have an opinion on fungus. No opinion on fungus? Except I love mushrooms. I'm a hawk on fungus. But look, I'm curious about food, and I love going to farmers markets. And my two and a half year old will

cry if you bring her broccoli to the table, but if you let her go outside and see the broccoli growing in the garden, she'll run and she'll eat it, and she'll be excited about it. So, wait, why does she cry?

She doesn't want to eat broccoli if I prepare it and bring it to her. But she eats it off the... What is it? Where does it grow on a tree? No, where does broccoli grow? It grows in the ground, or... Oh, I know it starts in the ground. I didn't think it fell from guy, but I mean, like, it's, I can't picture where broccoli comes from. Where does broccoli come from, Ro?

It comes from a... You're stumped in the Congress today. Okay, I feel like I'm torturing you with this interview. No, no, no. I should have... You're a delight. Oh, thank you. You too.

What's up? You and her husband come over and I will show you what I eat. Okay. And it won't be fucking bread. Let me tell you that. But listen, my family is French. And my... Yeah, Des Chanel.

What a great name. My mother makes bread almost every other day, and she's incredibly healthy. And she makes her old starter, and it's fermented, and it's the old-fashioned way of making bread. So I think that there are ways to enjoy bread. And maybe one day you can enjoy bread, too. All right. Let me move on to... This is terrible that we have to go from something so...

What we made delightfully light, to something so disturbing. But I can't ignore this story. I see it every day in the news, and this is this Dr. Larry Nasser who abused his position and trust so horribly, sexually assaulted over 100 girls on our Olympic team. It just couldn't get any worse.

Maybe this is why, you know, I've never been able to quite come out against the death penalty, even though a lot of my liberal friends want me too, but somebody like this and I'm going, I don't know. I just can't do it. But the same day I read about that, I read this headline in the New York Times, Afghan pedophiles get free pass from U.S. military.

On 5,753 occasions, the United States military reported gross human rights abuses by the Afghan military, including many examples of child sexual abuse. You're supposed to cut off military aid when that happens. Not once did that happen. It's called Bacabasi.

I've read about it before. I've said a thing about it once. It's a practice in Afghanistan, not just the military, but any well-to-do older man has a boy. And I'm talking about nine-year-old kids who was kind of a sex slave. And I feel like when it's our kids,

of course, as we should, we're up in arms, but this, to me, is the bigotry of low expectations. There's a fine line between being culturally sensitive when you're a military force deployed in a foreign nation. And the fact that that nation depends on you for their very survival

where you have a little bit of leverage, culturally speaking, where you can say, yeah, you know, we're going to go ahead and let the Taliban come in here and cut off all your damn heads if you don't stop the whole kid-screwing thing. I mean, there is a point where we have to project our values as well as our power in the world.

I mean, and one of the tragedies here, right, is that this was actually something that the Taliban did a lot. eliminate and that the Taliban makes a very hard line on so we've sort of brought back the warlords and I think it's even increased since the American invasion

and so we're in this terrible position of kind of propping up the people who are doing this against the other villains can we say that your religion is not a get out of outrage card but what is it about it's not religion it's very specific to Afghanistan and there's there's a law

as you know the Lehi Amendment Right, there'll be highman. That's right. Which says that you can't fund it. But here's the point. Instead of being there for 16 years with our troops and all the money we've spent, if we got out of Afghanistan and spent 1% on that, looking after these kids and women,

we would do a far more in promoting our values. So it's not just that we're not standing up or not, but being dumb about it. Okay. While we're near the Middle East, let me ask about a big story that happened while we were off in December. Donald Trump, Today we finally acknowledge the obvious

that Jerusalem is Israel's capital. He said Israel is a sovereign nation with the right like any other sovereign nation to determine its own capital. I hate to agree with Donald Trump, and it doesn't happen often. But I do. I don't know why Israel, it has been their capital since 1949.

It is where their government is. They've won all the wars thrown against them. I don't understand why they don't get to have their capital where they want. Really? You don't understand? Oh, I understand there are repercussions. I mean, so first of all, when you win a war, you don't get to take the other side's land, right? Under international law.

Actually, you do. Under international law, you don't just get to... Well, especially when they were attacked. I mean, the country was divided, which they were okay with. They were attacked more than once, and they took land in those wars that they won. And there has been peace offers on the table ever since to give part of that land back. But here's the thing. I mean, Trump says he's going to strengthen American national interest. Now, there are 128 countries, including Britain, France, Germany, India, who voted against us.

If we are going to do this, there's a cost. What did we get? What did we get for doing this? I mean, he's the dealmaker in chief. What are we getting in America? What happened for the 50 years before? I mean, this has been a fact on the ground for 50 years. I mean, Israel has been a state for 70, I think, right? I mean, it is the capital of Israel. Okay? I recognize Rose Point that if we're going to be an arbiter in this peace process that just declaring this without having, you know, trying to use that as a point of leverage in those debates and those discussions might have given away a card that we would have held. Now, I don't think, though, that, you know, that this is going to fundamentally alter the conditions on the ground there because,

the Palestinian authority and the Palestinian government is so collapsed in terms of being an effective political force in the process that the status quo is going to be the status quo for the foreseeable future. But the problem is the message that it sent to everyone in the process. So it sends a message to the Palestinians that the United States is going to be even more pro-Israel than in the past. And it sends a message to the Lakud government that you can basically do what you want. And so they responded by adopting a resolution, essentially calling for the annexation

of the West Bank, right? they passed legislation that would make it much harder to come to any sort of final status agreement on Jerusalem. And they've done all these things that are going to make a two-state solution impossible. So if you don't have a two-state solution... But it's always there making the two-state solution impossible. What is making the essential thing that is making the two-state solution impossible is that one party is perpetually hostile, a coiled snake. That's what's going on. You should go and see what's happening in the West Bank. If you look at the settlements, if you look at the facts on the ground, the fact that you have basically, instead of a contiguous landmass, you increasingly have these little canons.

And if you looked at the way that Palestinians, you know, most Palestinians alive today were not born during any of these wars. And so the idea that their lives should be blighted because of them. I mean, if you look at what Americans do when they have to go through a TSA checkpoint, right? They completely lose their shit. And if you imagine doing that two hours, every single day and any... But see, but this is always what happens. We talk about what happened as a result. We don't look at the beginning of it.

Like the Israelis just put up those checkpoints for no reason. They put up those checkpoints because there was an intifada, and they were having bombings every day. A pizza parlor or a bus stop was getting blown up. That's why they built it, not for known reasons. No, but also because they want to take that land. I mean, they're not putting up the settlements for self-defense. They're putting up the settlements because they want to have greater Israel.

And they're going to get it. Some of them did, yes. They're going to get it where there's going to be a one-state solution. So then the question is, what is that one state? Is it Jewish or is it democratic? Because it can't be both. Absolutely. And that is a big problem. But, you know, when people say... Like the gun is to Israel's head.

It is a problem. Bill, where are the Yitzhakrabians and Shimon Peres is in Israel? I mean, Benjamin Netanyahu has done Israel's cause, no service in this country. I mean, what we need is people who... Israel has had leaders before who've talked about their ballots and talked about the two-state solution. It's a little different when you live.

live in that hostile environment. You're a rich person. You should go see what life in the West Bank is right. Yes. Go to Hebron. Let go and see it. First of all, you don't have to go to understand this. I'm not a moron.

I can understand. But I feel like it's hard to really get your head around how bad it is unless you see it with your own eyes. I understand that. But Israel... You think they shouldn't be building new settlements, right? Probably not. But Israel gave back Gaza.

And what was the result? Did they use the funds to build schools and hospitals? No, they used them to build tunnels, to get weapons in. And they invited Hamas into our shell Israel across the water. Once you have, Hamas, as the power player in the Palestinian movement, you've basically got implacable hostility. You've basically got, and we can say some of it's justified because of the Israeli expansions,

but a lot of it is drive the Jews into the sea, burning into the ground. And you know, you can't, those aren't, that's not a partnership where you've got people dealing from an equitable space. But that's why you don't cut the balls off of the Palestinian moderate. It's the people who are running the West Bank.

I have to cut the balls off this discussion, but it was very enlightening. Thank you very much. But it's time for new rules, everybody. All right, new rule, now that I, Tanya, received Oscar nomination, someone must tell me how I'm supposed to wish Tanya Harding, good luck.

Promoting it on the red carpet. In show business, it's considered a jing. to say good luck. And of course, we all know it would happen if I tell her to break a leg. New Rule, no more automatic soap dispensers at the airport. I'm tired of feeling like a robot just softly came in my hand.

Dirty shots. New Rule, someone has to break it to Sean Hannity that he's starting to look like the hotel clerk at a 1930 screwball comedy. I know he's talking about Hillary, but it looks like he's telling Carole Lombard now see here madam you cannot bring you cannot bring a tiger into this hotel new rule there's such a thing as too many houseplants I'm all for bringing nature indoors

but when I need a machete to reach the kitchen you know you've ever done it when you come home from work and find a lost tribe of pygmies living in the laundry room new rule nicoret gum the smoking cessation aid must come with a pair of industrial strength scissors or wire cutters, or a blowtorch, because I got to tell you, by the time I get one of your bitter shit chicklets out of the goddamn blister pack, I need a cigarette.

And finally, new rule, if Donald Trump keeps insisting that... He's the least racist person anyone has ever met. He has to explain why. The single most consistent thing in his whole life is he loves to pick fights with black people. Of all his myriad insanities, if I had to pick one line for his tombstone, it would be,

here lies Donald Trump, picked fights with black people. I mean, really, think of the list. Colin Kaepernick, Lovar Ball, Barack Obama, Eric Holder, the war widow from the failed raid in Niger, the war widow's congresswoman, the Central Park Five, Steph Curry, the UCLA basketball, players arrested in China. Willby Goldberg, April Ryan, the entire NFL, the cast of Hamilton.

The city of Atlanta falling apart. Chicago. A disaster. Nigeria. They live in huts. Haiti. They all have AIDS. And the entire continent of Africa, a shithole. Charlottesville?

Very fine people on both sides. Would be a joke against Trump. You see, they're not true. I could continue this list, but we'd be here through the end of February, which is Black History Month, or as Trump likes to say, all months matter. Ah, see, now you're catching on. There you go.

Is it just a coincidence that he's perpetually pissed off at the NBA and the NFL, but golfers and hockey players never seem to bother him? On the contrary, he once tweeted, a fact, golfers don't get aches and pains like others who don't come. It's amazingly remedial. But then his entire presidency is amazingly remedial. The New York Times reports that Trump hate watches CNN to get worked up, especially Don Lemon.

Huh. Of all CNN's anchors, what could it possibly be about Don Lemon that incenses him the most? As of today, Trump has tweeted about Obama $2,59,000. times. Just his tweets on Obama being a Kenyan who cheated his way into college could fill a book.

A book entitled, Are You There, God, it's me, dumb ass. Colin Kaepernick is a son of a bitch. So is Marshawn Lynch and all the black NFL players who take a knee because they're very ungrateful. Kind of a theme with Trump. Ungrateful.

Steph Curry, ungrateful. Yes, because he hesitated on going to the White House. So Trump took back the invitation he never sent to someone who didn't want to go. Then there were the three UCLA basketball players who got caught choplifting in China. Finally, something Trump could relate to.

Stealing. But were they grateful? No. Trump tweeted, should have left them in jail. Because even though they thanked him, it wasn't really from the heart, guys. You want to see how it's done? I'll show you how it's done.

Exquisite presidential leadership. You're one heck of a leader. Thank you, President Trump, for allowing us to have you as our president. That's how Mr. Trump likes his ass kiss. But here's the problem, Mr. President. By our calculations, you're going to completely run out of black people to have a contrived feud with by the fall of 2019. You'll be down to the Wu-Tang Clan, famous Amos, and Mr. T.

So, so I... So I was thinking, who could you hate almost as much? And then it dawned on me. There is one white person you loathed above all others. Only Rosie O'Donnell. That's right. You really, really, really hate Rosie O'Donnell. And I'd look her right in that fat, ugly face of hers.

I'd say, Rosie, you're fired. So there we have it. Hate the Irish. My people. It's xenophobia classic, and it's actually pretty easy to do. You think Kanye is a pain in the ass? Have you ever met Bono? Oh, there's plenty of us Irish types you can fume about.

For example, get irrationally obsessed about Liam Neeson. Taken? Yeah, that's what I feel like after I spend 12 bucks on one of your movies. Colin Farrell, why do you keep working? You made more bombs in the IRA. And you, you sound like the ocean is dying. Sertia Ronan, I like actresses with normal names, like Stormy. So what? You're 22 and could do a perfect American accent.

Maloney has been here since 96 and she still sounds like Bella Lagosi. Slovenia's strong. Connor McGregor, you had one job beating the shit out of a black guy. You let us all down. Sad. Ronald Ray. What's with the crazy makeup and hair? You're the president.

Try not to look like a clown. Bill Maher, I hate Tocahontas. I've come, you're always inhaling when what you do mostly is blow. No orangutan, no orangutan, you're the orangutang! All right, that's our show. I'll be at the Mirage in Vegas March 9th and 10th. I want to thank my guest, Rick Wilson, Michelle Goldberg, Rok Carter, Zoe Day Chanel, and Roger McNamee. Thank you, folks. Join us on overtime.

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10 or watch them anytime on HBO On Demand. For more information, log on to HBO.com.