Real Time with Bill Maher - Ep. #485: Rahm Emanuel, John Legend

Episode Date: February 16, 2019

Bill’s guests are Rahm Emanuel, John Legend, Paul Begala, David Frum, Maya Wiley. (Originally aired 2/15/19) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late-night series Real Time with Bill Maugh. Start the clock. Try to remain calm. There's a national emergency, haven't you heard? Yes, he did it. Fouco did it today.

He declared a national emergency. He was in the Rose Garden in the morning. You could tell this is when he normally has executive time because he was still in curlers. And he, this was just completely crackers. I know I've said that before, but this was just one long, baseless, incoherent stream of consciousness, call the nursing home rant.

I mean, we don't, you know, we don't even notice any more when he gets stupider. It's like farting on a garbage ship. Who notices? You know who should have declared a national emergency long ago? Fact checkers. There's no reality. anymore. I mean, reporters were asking him questions.

At one point, he said to a reporter who gave him statistics from his own administration, and he said, you really believe stats? Yes, I do. I mean, there is nothing really left to say about this, except a national emergency should not be used by Trump. It should be used on Trump. Just to refresh your memory why we're in this little bit of a pickle.

We had a government shutdown. Remember that? Over the wall. over the wall. And now we're having a national emergency declared over a wall because the master negotiator was offered $25 billion for his wall

sometime ago, turn that down. In December, he was offered $1.6 billion. Turn that down. Now they signed a deal for $1.3 billion. Today, Mexico said, fuck, if it gets any lower, maybe we will pay for it. And, you know, Trump promised his supporters over a thousand miles

A big, beautiful wall. He got 55 miles of a fence. And did you see this? They have changed the slogan from build the wall to finish the wall. Because he told them, he said, I've already built a wall a lot of, he's built no wall. But he tells them that, and they change the slogan. You know, Monday is President's Day? We've gone from, I cannot tell a lie, to I cannot tell when I'm lying.

And this thing about just telling the people. You've done it. I know we're not supposed to say they're stupid. But Anne Coulter is saying that about them. I mean, are we really at the point now where we can just change reality by changing the chant? I mean, it's like if Queen sang,

we did rock you. Oh, yes, we did. We have already rocked you. I don't know. I mean, it's madness. Things haven't even gotten started. and he's already moved on to finishing. And Melania said,

welcome to my world. Oh, we laugh, don't we? But, you know, this is fundamental, really serious democracy hanging by a thread kind of stuff. It is. It's more of that slow-moving coup that I keep talking about.

The rules since 1787 in this country has been Congress is the one who decides how we spend the money, okay? Trump found a line somewhere in America's laws that said, yes, except if a president declares a national emergency.

And of course, the only thing that stopped all the other presidents from things before it is that they had some respect for what our country is built on. But one weapon that does not work on this president is saying good people wouldn't do that. It's like using sarcasm

on Siri. But, you know, turning America into a monarchy, that's not something you can do all by yourself. Mitch McConnell. Mitch McConnell, right, said, you know, first he was against this, then he said, you know what, if you want to go completely around Congress, Mr. President, you have my support. Wow, I thought Hannity was a submissive bitch.

And I say we get an immigrant in there to do Mitch McConnell's job, because apparently upholding the Constitution is a job Americans just don't want to do. You sound good. We got a great show, Paul Begala, Maya Wiley, and David Trump. Here in a little letter he's speaking with our friend John Legend is back stage. Okay, first up, he is the two-term mayor of Chicago and former White House chief of staff. He's done it all.

Mayor Rahm Emanuel of Chicago. Okay. Welcome, Mr. Mayor, and I guess I won't be able to call you that much longer. You are not running for a third term as the mayor of Chicago, right? When is your term end? May 20th. You're counting the days, I bet. 10 o'clock.

Not that I'm... No, you deserve a break. I mean, you've been in the battle since the beginning. I mean, you're in the Clinton White House, Chief of Staff for Obama. That's a killer job. You think? You tell me, but you must be tired, and you earned a break. Doesn't he earn a break?

Obama, man, you won't get some break. Okay. I know, one serious thing, though, as a son and a grandson of an immigrant, to serve two presidents, Congress, mayor of the city that welcomed my grandfather, greatest city, greatest country in the world, can't be anywhere else in the world. you can be the son of an immigrant

and become the mayor of the city that you're a great thing. Yeah, yeah. Who's here to argue with that? We can find somebody. I don't think you can find somebody. But so what is your take on the national emergency? What should be the strategy?

If you were in the White House, as you were with Obama, you would have to come up with a strategy to combat this? Well, first of all, no, because our president wouldn't do this. No, to combat it. No, I know. So here's the first and foremost. And I think that people got to, you have a faux constitutional crisis

to basically cover up a real campaign crisis. This is all about the campaign. Sure. Some pledge you made. And so what you have now, and I think that the direct approach and the right thing to do, you want to stop drugs?

You want to start narcotics? No. Declare a national emergency on opiates. Yeah. Opiates are killing people. They're manufactured here. So that's what we should declare emergency problems.

Okay. So, now, but I mean, and then the other thing is, and I think what we have to do is actually, the whole strategy is, and there's an opening here. And that is when you have a pincor and you have to create a pincor campaign against Trump and the base of the Republican Party, because they're not for this. And now for the first time, remember, his. The base is not for this? No, because the... Because Ann Coulter. No, there's more than just her.

I'm talking about people that in the members of the House and Senate and the true people that believe in that if you give the president, they know Democrats are going to one, they get back there. If you start to lower the bar of what becomes a national emergency, you're giving authority to the chief of staff. And so I would drive a wedge between the... Right now, the only thing holding up the president is the fact that he's cowed the entire Republicans. Right. And start driving that wedge

there to weaken him going into 2020. That's what the Democrats need, a wedge driver like you. No, well... Some other adjectives have been used to describe this. No, I know. No, you're a tough guy, and we like that. You asked me what the strategy was. Yeah, I know. I think they should listen to you.

What you want is divided base from this president going into 2020. Now, I'm a big fan of Nancy Pelosi. I'm so glad when everyone was whispering in my ear, oh, they need new leadership. You should, no, I said no. No. We agreed on that. Yes.

And she's doing amazing. And she proved it. This is why you don't need a rookie sitting across from McChic Donald or Donald Trump. Now, Speaker Seth Moulton would not have done as well. I like it. Okay. But she said today, I think it was today, these days go by so quickly. Sometimes you want them to go by.

Yeah. She floated the idea out there. If it was a different president, maybe we would declare a national emergency on guns. I don't think this is good politics for the next election. A lot of people just vote on guns, and it sounds like, oh, the Democrats are licking their chops to declare in a national emergency on guns. And, yeah? Go ahead. I was going to say...

I was showing restraint. It's a real thing for me. I know. But it may be a crisis guns, but it's not a national emergency. We can't be as bad as them, right? I think the one thing you don't want to mimic their politics. And there are times, in fact, you want to show the strength. But on this case, I would not say, we're going to declare this emergency, that emergency.

People don't like this. They're not for what's going on here. They'll see through it. Actually, I have confidence in the American people. They'll see this for what it is, and they'll reject it. And the idea is not to lower. He wants you on certain cases to actually mimic what he's doing because then there's a difference of nothing.

That's not where you want to go. against him. So how do we break this cycle between the two parties that we've been in for such a long time? I mean, they go back to Bork, and then Clinton was impeached for really what we don't think he should have been impeached for, and they know better. And then they think Bush was handled very unfairly. And then Obama, of course, was handled unfairly, and they wouldn't need that. Mitch, you get to a point where Mitch McConnell says, we're not even going to consider everything, we're going to block everything. And if we do get rid of Trump, those people who are supporters

are not going to go away, they're just going to want revenge. You're a mayor. You break cycles and things. How do you break this cycle? Well, there's a couple of things I think that actually were... I actually think what Donald Trump had, if I'm an optimist, is actually reignited a civic pride and civic engagement in the country

that we haven't seen. His legacy will be. People are getting involved. In a level we could not do before. The second thing, and this is what I would call for the country, I mean, I'm not running and don't want to run. We need National Service again to reenite the threads

that unite us as citizens in this country. And people committing again to serve to the country. I actually think the way you don't do this is retribution. I actually think that American people, especially the young, want to be lifted up to higher ideals. And I think that's a place to go for the party. And I think that

one of our nominees will actually touch that flame and ignite it in the way the Kennedy did. And who do you think that nominee will be? That's what the voters will pick. And you know what I know about campaigns, having gone six for six? They reveal character. Had to get that in.

They reveal character. People will lift the hood, kick the tires, change it, look at the oil. And we will find, people forget this. Both Barack Obama, President Clinton, two people I work for, were not seen as the frontrunners. They emerge as a frontrunner, and they will be able to show they can take a punch and deliver a punch. they'll be able to raise the country to the level and they go mono-no-a-mono against Trump. Speaking of a lift...

And you can't see it on paper. You can't see it on paper. It will happen. And that person will emerge. In the debates, you think? Through the campaign. Through the campaign. They'll do things and you'll start to see Ronald Reagan

in his moment. I paid for this microphone. It became a moment that captured his character. And there will be that moment. Okay. What do you think the governor of Virginia? you should do? Well,

well, I mean, I'm going to say, here's what I think. You seem nervous about this. No, I don't. I don't buy that he, that's not his photo. I think that is his photo. Yes, that's definitely his photo. And it's wrong.

We all agree on that. Okay, now, what I think, though, is that what I do know in reading a lot of history, you take Barack Obama. He wasn't for gay marriage at first. He integrated the armed forces, so gay and lesbian is going to serve the country they love and not be judged by the person they love.

President Lincoln didn't go fight the war to end slavery. It was for the Union. Came to be the great emancipator. I think, Wertham, part of civil rights, part of any change is maturity and evolution. He is now going to be the greatest fighter for civil rights because he has something to prove in his character. I don't know where this notion is.

And I really, so... And he was a... And he was a pretty good one, which is why 58% of African Americans in Virginia want him to stay on the job. Exactly. Because they also got health care. He got Medicaid through. So my point is, but on all these things, the notion that you disagree with somebody, the answer is you're fired. The fact is, he has evolved.

And he has something now, if you want somebody, there's nothing like a convert. He is going to have a zealotry to prove something because he has the campaign of his reputation. And to my view is he has something to show. And you can't, this notion, Virginia escape history. No, you learn from history. You don't escape history. And then it teaches you what to do right in the future. So my view, that's how you go.

I'm with you. So I saw today you, in the city of Chicago, sent a letter to Jeff Bezos over at Amazon. Nothing salacious about your email or pictures. And you were trying to lure Amazon to show. Chicago because they pulled out of New York. What do you think about that? What do you think about New York losing that and where Amazon should go? Obviously, you want them

in your city. Well, I mean, here's what, first of all, for five consecutive years, Chicago's the number one city in America for corporate relocations. Every year, five straight. Why are we bribing corporations? That was the issue in New York. Do we really have to do that? Well, it's not the issue. Well, here's a, that's a fair question. And my own

view, take a look at New York, you look at it. What they should have said, look, fix the subway near where we're going to go, and everybody will gain. They would have gotten a tick or take parade. And that same dollars, but go to actually because of what, the condition of the subway system in New York, they would have been seen as actually coming in as a good neighbor. And my view is there's a lot of economic growth that you can create,

that there's multiple winners, and it's a win-win situation, rather than, as you say, whether it's enticing or financial. I think Chicago has a lot to offer, and the number one thing it has to offer, the best-educated workforce in the... the United States of America. Spoken like the still mayor of Chicago. You've earned your vacation.

Rum Emanuel, everybody. Okay, let's meet our panel. Hey, who's here. Okay, here's our panel. He is a Democratic strategist and CNN contributor, Paul Bagala, is over here. Wow, this is a panel of old friends. He's a columnist at the Atlantic

and author of Trumpocracy, the corruption of the American Republic. Perfect for our discussion today. David from... And she is the senior vice president and professor of public and urban policy at the new school, My All Job, and MSNBC legal analyst. Maya Wiley, great to have you, Maya. Okay, so let's, no overtime tonight I've got to get to Vegas.

Okay. So, national emergency. This happened. We thought it might happen. It did. Usually, I thought a national emergency was something we declared when Martians were landing, not Mexicans. And, you know, in my lifetime, I've seen Congress give up the power of declaring war.

We don't do that. That happened a long time before Trump. And today, it seemed like they lost the power of their other big power, is how you spend money. If you're not to do war and you're not to do money, what are they there for? Well, they haven't lost anything yet. Yeah, that's true. It's really the beginning of a fight about what our Constitution says and whether Donald Trump can publicly say, that I did this because I wanted the wall, even though there's no emergency,

and then claim an emergency in order to try to build a wall that we don't need because we already have 700 miles of fencing, and because, as you pointed out, drugs actually come through ports. So, you know, this is going to get litigated, obviously. There's a political process here in the form of a joint resolution, but, you know, the question of whether 60 Republicans will support that through the whole other issue. But this litigation is going to go on for a while, and there's a very real possibility that we might see an injunction from a court like we did on the Muslim band before we have to...

But then it'll go to the Supreme Court, and that's when Schlitz-Kavanaugh will go. Totally behind you, bro. I know for you this is a hair-on-fire moment, but actually the president lit his own hair on fire, and there's a lot of hairspray there. He is... He will so regret this. He will so regret this, because here are some things that are about to happen. The law gives the president the power not to create new money, but to reshuffle old money. That money is going to come from people.

He's going to have to move it from one already approved military project that hasn't been contracted yet to another. Senator Tom Tillis, from North Carolina, Republican, came out against the president's action. Why? Because Carolina has $315 million of military projects in the pipeline. The state of Missouri has more than $300,000. $20 million of military projects in the pipeline. Those projects were fought for by senators, and they're now to be taken away. The president's going to face a resolution of disapproval from Congress, certainly from the House,

probably from the Senate, too. I think the number of Republican senators who are unhappy is enough. It may pass. He can veto it, but it still stings because it's a resolution of disapproval. Congress has voted to disapprove. And the court challenges are going to be painful. So I think he solved yesterday. But I've heard this so many times he can't get away with this and he always gets away with it.

You know what? He's not getting away with it. The boat is taking on order very, very steadily. Very slowly. I think they will disapprove in the Congress, and then the president will veto. Then there'll be a vote whether to override. He has not vetoed anything yet.

Right. That's how compliant the Republican Congress was. They need 67. But it just seems to me that he will regret this. Either the Congress will check him unlikely, or the courts will. And they have from time to time, the Muslim ban, you know, the three branches, the court has checked the president. residency, the Congress has yet to do so. And where's the biggest bulk of that money, David talks

about, is from the military construction budget. The Senate Armed Services Subcommittee, a subcommittee of that committee had a hearing this week about military housing. They had families of our heroic troops who are living in rat-infested, mice-infected, moldy housing. It's, it's, that's where he's going to take the money away from that for his stupid wall? I mean, we got, our beloved troops are living in, like, it's worse than the servants' quarters at Marlago. I mean, it's just, and those are our

heroes? Considering our defense budget approaches a trillion dollars, that's ridiculous to begin with. But did you see the interview with the woman who's a plaintiff in the public citizen lawsuit that just got filed today? So she lives in Texas. She is one of the landowners who's going to lose their property

to eminent domain. Right, sure. If this goes through. It's not going to go over big, yeah. Right. So, I mean, imagine, this is the president, who gave a pardon to militiamen, right, who, like, did this federal action in Oregon is protect their property, and yet he's going to go along the border and actually take property.

Trump is trapped inside a tighter and tighter decision spiral. And this is happening to a more and more, where he solves a problem by creating the next problem, and then he solves the next problem by creating another. Yes, that's what con men do. They sell you the used car, knowing that it's going to break down, your 20 miles down the road.

But the con men cance are not seeing you again. But the intervals are getting tighter and tighter and tighter. And he is finding himself in an ever more inescapable situation. Except that... And I think the story for 2019 is going to be one of increasing hopefulness about what is ahead and the increasing ability to check. And I am not a optimist by nature. But you just feel that the spirit is surging in the country and the Congress...

It's not going to be their constitutional instincts. It's going to be their peevishness, their commitment to... pork barrel projects. The president is fooling with pork barrel projects. That is a dangerous thing to do. I'm less optimistic. Yeah, I'm me too. He has embarked on a strategy, which is exactly the opposite of what I would advise. He is deepening, not broadening his support.

He got 46% in the election. He hasn't seen 46 since. So if I'm his political advisor, they're like, sir, we've got to get to 50. He's drilling down deeper and deeper. It makes no sense. Unless, what you're fighting for is a fanatical base that will stand with him after Mueller and everything else. Unless you're thinking of changing the means of government

that we fundamentally have. I mean, what bothers me about this, aside from all this minutia, is that every president has a thing that they want to get through. Bush wanted to privatize Social Security, and Clinton wanted to revamp the health care system, and Obama wanted a grand bargain. And they didn't get it. But they didn't declare a national emergency. This is a movement toward a different kind of government. And as long as Mitch McConnell, and who, by the way, is more of an enemy of the Constitution than Mitch McConnell? I don't think anybody. As long as they are supporting this, They are supporting something that is fundamentally undemocratic.

They're complicit. They're complicit. They're implicit on something they don't even want because they don't want to give up the power. And by the way, not only are we fighting the wrong war at the border, this week we also found out we are deliberately taking money from the cybersecurity and infrastructure agency. I didn't even know this existed.

What is it, a task force? The two task force. Jay Johnson created it in 2020. This is to protect our elections from the Russians, basically. but from anyone who would want to rat fuck them. Sorry. Oh, it could get worse later in the show. I'm sorry.

I'll just hold on to my mum. But they are down, he also hasn't spent any of the $120 million that's already been appropriated to protect our elections. This is treasonable activity. This is a country under attack continually and someone who is in charge of defending it, not defending it. Well, and more importantly, this establishes him.

We already knew this, so I'm not breaking any news here, but as distractor in chief, because it's distracting the Department of Homeland Security from cybersecurity of our elections to a border wall we don't need. The wall is better than a sex scandal. It's better than... It really is, as far as just... Because people are bored with his sex life. They know he's a scumbag, so they don't...

19 women started making it. old. Right. He does have an obligation to protect our country, and I'm glad that you called it an invasion bill. In the media, too often they call it meddling. It was just kind of a gamesmanship. Yeah, like your mother in law. John McCain, a war hero.

Right. John McCain called it an invasion, an attack against America. His president is not defending us. Why? He benefited from that attack. Yes. They ought to just eliminate the middleman, pay him in rubles, and just make it honest. His Manafort, he was his campaign manager this week,

They've said, you know, you've been lying after you made the plea deal. Well, not just lying. Not just lying. Now, lying bad. Going and telling the president and having communications with him while you are supposedly cooperating after a plea deal with federal investigators. That's more, that's where you start to see the circumstantial evidence. Okay, so the campaign manager, the personal lawyer for him and the national security advisor, all convicted of lying about relations with the Russians.

What are the odds that he didn't know when the key people around him were all doing this? It's preposterous. But emphasize the word convicted. When we talk about the walls closing in, that the American legal system has worked about as well as anybody could have hoped, and it continues to work. Bob Mueller stays on the job.

Here you are every week worrying about what is about to happen to Mueller, but it hasn't happened yet. Well, for all of us, I mean, fate is not dying that day. Mueller didn't die that day. And at this point, with the House of Representatives in Democratic hands, he's missed his window. That tightening spiral is continuing to tighten. And the president hasn't pardoned anybody.

We don't know. We got a new attorney general today, right? Okay, the last guy was a temp. I mean, talk about things that are not normal. That Whitaker guy? Oh, right. They got him from manpower. Like, he was, the week before, he was installing drain pipes or something again.

Whitaker, who was a highly abnormal approach to the attorney, he was shut down. He's not, he's not there. He's got some counselor to the attorney general job. Bob Barr is a normal, sorry, thank you very much. Bill Barr is a normal figure who has a long career, a long career ahead of him after being attorney general. You know, because the way, okay, come on, Dave. So many of these people, they're normal, normal, normal, and then one day, It's like, what happened to that person?

I mean, Lindsay Graham was normal for a while. A lot of people were normal, and then they get sucked into the Fox News vortex or something they get sucked into, and they become very not normal. So I'm not really... The story of the Trump years, institutionally, is the massive failure of the Republican Party, complicity by...

It is true. They are the most... That's the most shameful story. The most inspiring story is the American legal system. The judges, the prosecutors, and how they have protected. and they've affected one another and remember that they have futures beyond Donald Trump. The legal system has worked, the political system has failed.

All right. So Valentine's Day was yesterday. Did you have a good time? We thought we would save this for Valentine's Day. It's been floating around the Internet for a couple of months, but it was an amazing story. A man bought a used car, and he found something that somebody left in the car, which was a list of 22 relationship rules that the previous car owner's girlfriend had laid out for this guy. and the guy posted it on the internet. This is real, and it became viral. Things like, you are not to have a single girl's phone number.

You are not to look at a single girl. I am allowed to do a phone check whenever I please. You are not... You are not to get mad at me about a single thing I ever do. You are never to take longer than 10 minutes to text me back. You are not to ask for a head. No, this is real. So apparently this is catching on,

and a lot of women are doing this now. We got a hold of Melania's list. I don't know if you've asked to... But these are her rules. You are not to leave your girdle on the bathroom floor. You are not to ask for hand. You are not allowed to eat Wendy's in bed. Tell Wendy I can hear her.

You are not to ever again mention the bride catalog's return policy. His name is Barron and he's our son. Stop asking who's the kid. You must at least consider drinking or whatever else will put you to sleep. When I say I love you, do not reply with, you're welcome.

If I say jump, you, ha, I'd like to see that. All right. John Legend is here. He is one of the most enduring stars in this industry, an activist and a musician whose newest song and video Preach is out today. Take a look.

All right, John Legend, everybody. Great to see you. Right. Hello. Not only a great talent, but a great citizen. You use your powers for good and not evil. I try. I try.

I try it. It's a terrific new video and song. What if people don't hear it, some of our audience is older than listening to young music. Yeah. That's the poetic message. How would you put it in? What is the takeaway that you want people to get?

Well, the song we talk about, you know, we had another gun masker today in America and Illinois, and every time it happens, we get the whole thing. hopes and prayers and thoughts and prayers from all our officials and they don't do anything about it. And the song is basically saying, we've had enough of the thoughts and prayers and the talking about it. Let's actually do something. T and P. Yeah.

D&P. Yeah. So, before I forget this, I haven't seen you. You were so good as Jesus. Oh, thank you. And Jesus Christ, you see Jesus Christ Superstar? Thank you. Yes. You were born to play that part. Because people who

already think of you as a great guy. Well... So, like, you know, it's like, Jesus' church on lunch, and I get that. I'm a kid of... I'm the son and grandson of preachers, and so I've been learning about Jesus my whole life. Yes. And so I guess I was preparation for that. Okay.

Yes. So, all right, I know mass incarceration is a big issue with you. Yeah. Organization involved with that. Yes, Free America. Do you think Trump gets any credit for... He did get a bill passed? Yeah, I mean, the bill was good.

A prison reform bill. The bill was good, and it was... He always says, no one ever writes about it when I do something good. No one notices the press that we're mentioning it now, okay, asshole. Mentioning your good thing. How about that? It's hard to really credit him because you know he has no idea what's in the bill. But a lot of people worked on it on both sides of the aisle

and a lot of activists worked on it. And it's aptly named first step because there's a lot more steps, I think, that need to go into place. But I think it is a first step and it's better than not having done it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when Hillary Clinton ran, her first speech in her campaign was about mass incarceration. So I thought when they hung that super predator on her, it was kind of unfair. Well, she said it.

She said it, so she has to be accountable for what she said. But I think the pressure that was put on her and her realizing that she had to move to the left on that issue was because of the pressure. And so I think it's good for activists on the left to pressure Democrats who, in the 90s. in the 2000s were tough on crime. She was... Okay, but there was a lot more crime in the 90s. According to the Clintons on this, I mean, she was the first lady at the time.

She wasn't the president. And she said they were saying that word in response to requests from community leaders. The bottom line is, I think the pressure that the left put on Hillary Clinton was useful. And it moved her to the left, and it moved the Democratic Party to the left. She needed to be moved to the left on that issue?

On criminal justice, absolutely. And I think a lot of Democrats have needed to move to the left. And we're saying people bring up other candidates for 2020. Their record on criminal justice. And I think it's appropriate for people on the left to put pressure on our politicians and require them to step to where we want them to step. But part of the results of that was that I remember reading the quote from Colin Kaepernick, who said, I'm not going to vote because they're both racist, Trump and Hillary.

That's a terrible idea because I hate the idea. But that's what we get. No, I think we can have both. We can say, let's put pressure from the left on our politicians, but also say, when it comes down to a decision, I vote for Hillary Clinton. And I campaigned for Hillary Clinton because I knew the alternative was Trump. And not just a negative decision, because I thought Hillary was a great candidate, too. But also, it was clear that even if there was someone running on a third party candidacy

to her left, I wouldn't have voted for that person because I'm practical about the fact I want the best candidate with the best chance of winning to get my vote. Okay. So I noticed that you're pretty much the only big star in the R. Kelly, recent documentary that we all watched, and it was pretty damning. Yeah. And I think a lot of people have asked in the last few years, like, when is the Me Too movement going to come to the music industry?

And I think what a lot of people are thinking is, God, that's so ubiquitous in the music industry. where would you even start? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think clearly we're having this conversation about R. Kelly. There's another article this week in the New York Times about another musician.

And so I think there's a conversation being had. I just think music is probably a bit more decentralized. And so I think... And sexy. It's a sexy thing. There's sex all around. And I also think, particularly in the R. Kelly case, the reason why I was ignored for so long

was because the victims were pretty powerless, and they didn't have people speaking up for them. And so that's really why I spoke up. I have friends who were activists that were speaking up for those victims, and a lot of people were ignoring them. And the guy who wrote about it in Chicago was saying, I learned, as a white guy writing,

he was like, I learned that black women are the least valued women in society because when I was writing about this, no one cared, no one paid attention. So these victims didn't have the power. They didn't have the standing to get attention paid to what happened to them. And so it was,

good that this documentary paid proper attention to them. Thank you, Maya. And can we still play R. Kelly at a party? Would that be wrong? I actually, I don't play it. I don't either. Me neither. Yep.

Absolutely not. Out of my iPod. Is this a check in your iPod on the list? Yeah. No. iPod. I know. Even that's got dating myself.

But I still like it. So what about the governor of Virginia? I asked Rahm Emanuel, and we talked about it last week on the show. Malcolm Nance was here, and he said, you know, if you're going to talk about black outrage, maybe you should ask some black folks. And I think the stat I cited with Rom, you know, 58% of African Americans in Virginia believe he should not step down. Your feelings, your feelings, your feelings, your feelings.

I think black people are shocked when we find out that, folks, we might have done something like this 30 years ago. We're probably the least shocked. Right. I was going to say it a little bit more pointedly because the conversation I was just visiting my friend who lives in Virginia. Our conversation was like,

why do white people think black people trust them? I mean, it's our litmus test is we don't trust you, so we're constantly waiting to see if you're going to do what you said you were going to do. In this case, in this case, I think that's part of why you see 58% of black Virginia saying, we didn't trust you in the first place, to John's point. We want you to make good on what you said you were going to do,

which was eliminate voter ID, which discriminates us against in terms of our ability to vote, disproportionately, that you were going to do criminal justice reform in the state of Virginia. In other words, we want you to make good on what you said you're going to do and we're going to hold your feet to the fire. I also think it is absolutely right for black people to be outraged. It isn't because he wore blackface in that photo or the clan costume. We didn't even know which one.

It's that it is imperative that we have a discussion that says how we evolve. There's so much racism in this country that that was an opportunity to have a conversation about here is how I learned that that was wrong. Because people lose their careers, Megan Kelly lost her career. Well, she had bad ratings. She had bad ratings.

She had bad ratings. Okay. And then... And she said Santa was a white man. Okay. Well, he does live at the North Pole. But... And Liam Neeson said something last week and he was trying to say...

He's not lost his job? Well, but there's a big backlash. We'll see if he... We'll see. Okay. But what I'm saying is, I remember when Clinton was president, he said, we have to have a dialogue on race. I remember Obama had the beer summit And it was like, we need to talk. I don't know if we're creating an atmosphere

where people now feel safe to talk. And I think that puts us in the wrong direction. I think dialogue and talking was where the direction should go. And now I think people are like, oh, you know what, I should just shut up because I'm just going to get in trouble if I say anything. I'm just excited because the Virginia GOP

said that racists don't belong in office. And so I have a good feeling that a lot of people are going to resign. And I think President Trump will resign. There's so many people that are going to resign because the GOP has decided that racists don't belong in office. I'm just excited for the turnover. It's going to happen. You also, when you were talking to the Trump administration about your initiative on criminal justice reform, it must have been, it must have helped you that so many of the people you were talking to thought, well, I might be a felon one of these days.

Well, Jared Kushner, his dad was literally in prison and he took up the cause of criminal justice reform based on that experience. But not falsely. And I think he has a feeling that he might be indicted himself sometime soon. Who knows? If I can go back to Virginia. I live in Virginia. Governor Northam is a friend of mine. And I think one of the reasons is 58%.

He got the overwhelming African-American vote in a campaign, and now 58% of African-Americans in his Commonwealth don't want him to resign. I think you all are right. But I also think people would prefer redemption to resignation. And if you know the governor, as I do, There is nothing in the 35 years since those offensive racist pictures, nothing to suggest he's still that person,

that he has grown to change. He passed, as Ron pointed out, he passed Medicaid, which disproportionately helps African Americans. He's the first white politician in Virginia that I know of who called for those Confederate monuments to come down. He has, and now he has pledged to redeem himself even more. I think it's a far better thing. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Look, because there are two different things happening here. Yes, redemption. And to the point about the discussion, the discussion has to be a redemptive discussion. His problem, and I'm not saying this because I think he should resign, because I agree, if 58% of black voters want him to stay, I'm not going to tell him he shouldn't.

But moonwalking and that description of the, like, the tar. That was the, that was a demonstration that he has not learned. That he has worked for. And as a press conference. As a watcher of politics, I was, like, he's really not a good politician. He's not very good at this.

Just an idiot. Just like an idiot. I feel like the governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia should just be a little bit better at politics. So the conversation I want is you don't, and this goes back to the Liam Neeson point, right? He was at, it was awful

that he thought and felt what he did. That was reprehensible. And we can't have a discussion like that by Twitter or by an off-handed comment because it is so painful and we're so traumless. But everything gets on Twitter.

We have to learn to ignore Twitter. Well, I think that's right. And I think the point is how do you create a conversation that acknowledges these are not these are no long, these are not hypothetical conversations because we had Tree of Life Synagogue. We had Emmanuel AME Church. I mean, people are actually dying

because of the stereotypical tropes. And so, It's irresponsible not to talk about it better. That came up in the Jewish community this week again because of there's a new congresswoman, Ilan Omar. She is Muslim, one of the first two I think we have in Congress. And she apologized. She's under a lot of fire because she was talking about the Jewish lobby, APAC, and she said it's all about the Benjamin's.

Now, I probably don't agree with her a lot about what she feels about Israel and Palestine, but I don't know why this has to be seen as anti-Semitic. Now, she may be anti-Semitic, but if I criticize Saudi Arabia, that doesn't mean I'm Islamophobic. And, yes? No, it depends how. I mean, there are things you could say about Saudi Arabia

that would make people raise their eyebrows a little bit. If you say if it's a repressive, oligarchic regime that plunders its people, then you're saying a factual thing. There are jokes or remarks you could make. There are things you could say that would be demeaning or slighting. I have to say, though, I think

one of the things that maybe Congresswoman Omar got lucky with is that by starting this controversy, she was able to, that we are not paying attention to the fact that she was defending the brutal, authoritarian, corrupt, kleptocratic regime of Venezuela and opposing American action

to try to bring a resolution to this terrible humanitarian crisis, and which she was articulating there. And I think one of the reasons that her party took such firm line against her, was something that is just outside the realm of American politics, which you would think would encourage the rise of a democratic Venezuela. And by the way, your description of Venezuela could apply to Hamas in Gaza.

Right. It applies to a lot of places. I mean, one of the things I think we are, as we entered this new century, we carry around with us, especially those of us who are a little bit older, a mental map formed in a different time. And we use terms of left and right that don't apply. That there are gangster governments. And sometimes, as in Venezuela, they use language that resonates with left-wing people. And sometimes as in Russia, they use language that resonates with more conservative people.

They're the same. And the world order is increasing in the line of gangster versus non-gangster governments. Governments organized around stealing and governments organized around the rule of law. And those governments that are organized in rule of law have a lot more in common with any, despite whatever language or slogans they use. And so I just implore people there. There are people on the show who, you know, are going back into the ancient past to say, I have to feel, because I'm a progressive person, and Maduro and Hugo Chavez before him,

say things that sound like they resonate with me, I have to overlook the massive amount of fraud and stealing and violence and now death squads that are appearing in Venezuela. Don't be conned. But I think as progressives, we should also speak up for human rights for Palestinians. And I think

for too long, I think it's been out of bounds for progressives to speak up for the rights of Palestinians. And I don't know about Venezuela, so I won't talk about it. But I think it is It is a progressive point of view to speak up with the human rights of Palestine. How is the Palestinian issue is in your mind and the Venezuelan issue is not?

I mean, that says something about what has happened to progress. Well, it's the things that get talked about in American media more. Like, I just haven't read that much about Venezuela, but, you know, Israel and Palestine have been talked about for decades in this country. So we're more educated on it. I wish we had more time for this one. But we don't. It's time for new rules, everybody. New rules.

Okay. New rules, just because urban outfiters suggest this vote, Vibrator as a Valentine's Day gift doesn't mean you should buy it as a Valentine's Day gift. What could be more romantic then? Here you go, hon, knock yourself out. I'll be in the basement playing Fortnite. New Rule, now that 21 Savage is out of immigration jail and ready to, as his lawyers put it, continue making music that brings people together, they must tell us which of his songs are best at bringing people together. Is it the one that goes, I got model bitches want to lick me like some candy? And then drugs come in handy. Hit her with no condom,

to make her eat a plan B. Or is it the one that goes, fucker in my roly, fucker in my roly. I'm a fucker in my roly. Fucker in a rover, fucker in a rover, I'm a fucker in a rover. Bend the bitch over, bend the bitch over. I'm a bend the bitch over. Fucker on a sofa. Fucker on a sofa.

I'm a fuck her on a sofa. Your move, me too. New Rule, whoever in the White House invented the term executive time to describe watching TV and tweeting on the toilet deserves a raise. And then they should use it in a TV ad. You've worked hard for 45 minutes talking to people you don't like about things you don't understand. Now it's executive time. Just you, the TV, and a big bowl of Breyer's vanilla fudge swirl.

Executive time, because wearing pants is for losers. New Role, fashion critics must give Mr. Clean his props as a trendsetter. Hey, he was rocking the shaved head long before Jeff Bezos and Michael Jordan and the rock. Mr. Clean was way ahead of his time. The earring. The selfie smirk. The on-again, off-again relationship with the brawny paper towel guy.

Neural idiots have to stop posting this fake quote from Kurt Cobain where he predicts the election of a true outsider who does what's right for the people. Donald Trump. He never said it. He did, however, predict Trump with the album cover, a toddler with a tiny dick chasing money.

And finally, new rule, no more swiping left on perfectly good presidential candidates. Nearly 45 million Americans now identify themselves as Democrats, and all of them are running for president. This time, let's give them a chance. Let's not eat our own, the way we nitpicked Hillary to death over her emails and other bullshit. Kamala Harris has already had to play defense because it's come out that when she was a prosecutor, she prosecuted people. Not very progressive.

She should have found a way to apply more forgiveness. And the fact that she didn't is unforgivable. Elizabeth Warren claimed to be Native American. So what? Trump claimed to be human. If you think this stupid, blown out of proportion, Indian controversy makes her inauthentic, you're the phony. She is the champion of consumer rights in the age of income inequality.

When it comes to Elizabeth Warren, I have no reservations. Thank you. Bernie Sanders, we used to like him, but he didn't personally chaperone everyone on his campaign, so he's a sex monster once removed. A candidate has to have tough standards for their staff. But not too tough. That's Amy Klobuchar.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, last week we learned she's verbally abusive. Then again, this came from the Huffington Post, so I got to ask, do you mean actually abusive or what millennials think of as abusive? Because I think it's like the pain chart in the hospital. And I think my generation's two is your generation's 10. So welcome to the real world, Snowflake.

Now go get Amy her coffee and shut the fuck up. Better O'Rourke took oil money. Yeah, he's in Texas. All the money in Texas is oil money. The only other job there is operating the mechanical bull. It's like complaining Mitt Romney takes money from Mormons. I mean, geez, every Democrat is going to have some dark spot. In Virginia, it's on their face.

Do you know what song Trump plays at his rallies? It's the stones you can't always get what you want. Which seems like an odd choice. But it tells you why Republicans are so successful. Because they're not babies who think they can have everything. Evangelicals don't really like Donald Trump. They know we can't even pass a church without birth. at the flames.

But he got them two justices on the Supreme Court. Yeah, you can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you get what you need. That's their jam. Ours is thank you next. We go from I Love You to die in about six hours. It's like dating Taylor Swift.

You know, I've been watching the reboot of Temptation Island, not to brag. And it's startling. how similar the mentality is to what's going on in the Democratic Party. If you're not familiar, Temptation Island is the show where hot people, dating hot people, are in search for hotter people. Contestants only have two emotions, horny and crying. And the whole point of the show is you can always do better.

Every contestant begins their journey. By saying the same thing. I love what I have with Trevin, but I wonder if there's someone more perfect. for me. There isn't. That new asshole in the tank top is the same as your

asshole in the tank top. This is a real problem in our society looking for an excuse to dump someone. Someone good, because there must be one more perfect. And sometimes, what you wind up with is no one to host

the Oscars at all. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Look at the Oscars. They're being ruined by these same kind of ridiculous purity tests. Bohemian Rhapsody is flawed. Flawed because it's gay, but not gay enough. Really?

That's what they're saying. It's insensitive to the extremely gay. What? For years, the beef about gay characters in movies was they were reduced to their sexuality. Now the sexuality is placed in the background. It's, where's the dick-sucking? Roma.

Roma delivers such an authentic portrait of a Mexican housekeeper Arnold Schwarzenegger tried to impregnate it. But it's a movie about the poor and the director isn't poor. Out! Green Book is a movie made by liberals, four liberals,

bursting at the seams with liberal values, not good enough. Because the director is one of the Farrelly brothers. And as an inside joke for his crew, he used to pull his weenie out movies like Dumb and Dumber. Fuck, the poster for something about Mary showed Cameron Diaz's hair

styled with Ben Stiller's cum. I say he'd get an award just for growing up. And then there's a star is born, which has big problems with consent. Yes, consent. Because, get this. Bradley Cooper pulls Lady Gaga on stage to sing without her knowledge,

thereby forcing her to endure the humiliation of global stardom. I'm not kidding. The review in Vox says, A Star is Born presents a codependent relationship built on a huge power imbalance and lack of female agency. That's what you got out of a Star is born? Because all I learned was don't wear cockies on stage when you really have to pee.

All right, that's our show. I got to go. I'll be at the Plaza Theater in El Paso, March 2nd, at the Pavilion and Soyatta Music Factory in Dallas, March 16th. I want to thank Paul Bagala, David from, Maya Wiley, John Legend, and Roma Macon, Thank you, Daniel. Take it over, guys. Thank you. Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Ma

every Friday night at 10 or watch them anytime on HBO On Demand. For more information, log on to HBO.com.