Real Time with Bill Maher - Ep. #505: Congresswoman Katie Porter, Kevin Williamson

Episode Date: August 24, 2019

Bill’s guests are Congresswoman Katie Porter, Kevin Williamson, Heidi Heitkamp, Eric Klinenberg, and Michael Smerconish. (Originally aired 8/23/19) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Thank you, so I needed that, ladies and gentlemen. I've had so many shitty weeks, but this is a shitty week. I'm telling you, no, really, the one bright spot I can find is that Trump finally found some white people to fight with. Denmark. Really, he's fighting with Denmark because you know this, he's been wanting to buy Greenland. By the way, today Puerto Rico said, you don't take care of the islands you were. already have. But, as I've said, it's not a crazy idea

to want to own Greenland. Other presidents have suggested it, but they took no for an answer. Not this guy. The prime minister told him, not for sale. And he said, that's what Melania's parents said. That's so good humor.

Now, the prime minister of Denmark, nasty woman, said his offer was absurd, and Trump said, nasty and you've insulted America and he wanted to talk to the manager. Crazy. He is off his rocker. He's giving hour-long press

conferences on the White House lawn. Brought to you by Adderall. The president of the United States stands in the driveway every day and screams at people. I mean, I know a lot of old guys

are like, get off my lawn. He's like, get on my lawn. The suit, say, It's all about the suit. Really? If he wasn't wearing the suit, ordinarily people who do that are wearing a bathrobe with the garden hose in that way. Hey, let me tell you something.

The president is the inflatable arm flailing tube man outside of the car dealership. That's who he is. I don't want to say he has the mind of a child, but today Jeffrey Epstein's ghost tried to fuck it.

Gentle good humor. That's what we do your gentle. Now, do you see now why I say we need a recession? I know it's going to be painful, but we have to get rid of this guy. And recession, Trump now, says, not to worry. He says the economy's going fantastically, and other

than always, when has he ever lied? Yeah, he says, not to worry about a recession. He says he always finds a way to win, and that he wrote the book on surviving financial catastrophe, specifically chapter 11. And this is a bad sign.

Today, a Greenland offered to buy us. And now some funeral news to report yesterday, David Koch of the zillionaire Koch brothers died. Please. Of prostate cancer, I guess I'm going to have to reevaluate my low opinion of prostate cancer. He was 79, but his family says

they wish it could be longer, but at least he lived long enough to see the amortat. catch fire. Condolence is poured in from all the politicians he owned, and mourners are being asked in lieu of flowers to just leave their car engine running. As for his remains, he has asked to be cremated and have his ashes blown into a child's lungs.

Now, I know these seem like harsh words and harsh jokes, and I'm sure I will be condemned for them on Fox News, which will portray Mr. Koch is a principled libertarian who believed in the free market. He and his brother have done more than anybody to fund climate science deniers for decades.

So fuck him. The Amazon is burning up. I'm glad he's dead and I hope the end was painful. All right, what a great show. We've got a great show. Michael Svercunich, Heidi Hype, and Eric Kleinenberger here on Little Library we're speaking with columnist and author Kevin Williamson.

But first up, she represents California's 45th congressional district and is a professor at UC Irvine School of Law. Katie Porter. Of course. All right. So, we're going to talk about the Amazon later. It's depressing me.

I'm sure it's depressing you. Let's talk about... The company or the forest? Because they... Well, that's what I want to get to. I think the company should buy the forest. I think we should buy the Amazon. Money talks, right?

Well, like we would do with Greenland? Well, if we're going to buy Greenland... We might as well buy the Amazon, too. Bezos has 130 billion. Ted Turner used to do this. He used to buy giant swaths of land because he said nobody else is going to save it. I will. Where are all these cheap billionaires when you need them?

These environmentalists. Put your money where your mouth is. Money is the only thing to talk to... They're ready for president. Yeah, exactly. So, but there was a billionaire named Jamie Diamond who was head of what bank? J.P. Morgan.

J.P. Morgan Chase. Okay. And you sort of became famous. is because you shamed him. You were grilling him about why in his... I think, to be fair, Bill, I think he shamed himself. Well, you helped. I mean, you...

I mean, this is like the student who would tell me that they were really upset that I asked them a question to which they didn't know the answer, to which I would be like, well, that sort of... Well, apparently he's never thought about the answer, because that's what he kept saying to you. You kept saying, you know, someone who works at your company in a secretarial position,

this much money and that's hard to live on but you know your company does quite well and he said gee I never thought about that but the other day he was talking and a lot of business leaders were about how they've changed their tune a little bit that they say companies should be responsible in the way Henry Ford was you know make the workers solvent and maybe they'll buy your product and other products so it looked to me like shaming works I've said for a long time I don't think we shame enough you shamed him don't you think we should do that well I do think holding people accountable works, and I think it works in multiple ways.

I think it obviously worked to push the business roundtable toward this new definition of a corporation, but it also works in giving the American people confidence in our Congress. So those hearings, they're not for me. Those hearings are for the American people. So this is not my five minutes,

this is our five minutes. And so the goal is... I mean, a lot of... A lot of my colleagues, like a lot of my colleagues, Like, a lot of my colleagues don't get this. And so they'll say to me, like, wow, Katie, like, you're a freshman, but you're so good at asking questions. Like, do you have any tips? And so it's really hard to figure out how you say politely, like, well, the first tip is ask a question.

Like... An appointed one. I mean, to be honest, he looked like, I do not want to ever answer this lady's questions again. No, like, that is my screensaver. It's like the worst. Right. Okay. And you were pointing out something that came to light again this week

because that ice raid in Mississippi last week where they threw a lot of people out of work and probably now out of the country, they're trying to replace those people. And it was in the paper how much the jobs are. These are horrible jobs, murdering chickens. It's like $10 an hour, $12 an hour. This is just what you were talking about.

How do, I said this often, how do people live in this country? How do you pay? I mean, I've been dirt poor too, but I was single. I didn't have to worry about kids who I understand are, vacuums for money. How do you pay for all the things that you need to pay for? Well, the reality is... $400 a week.

Families can't. So what they're doing is they're going without. They're going without prescription drugs. They're going without dental visits. They're going without savings. They're going without emergency funds. And they're borrowing. They're borrowing on credit cards. They're borrowing from predatory lenders.

I mean, this is the reality of not earning enough. And so really what the business roundtable said and what Jamie Diamond said, Jamie Diamond's quote was, the American Dream is alive but fraying. And I saw that quote, and I thought, well, so nice of Elizabeth Warren to give such a great quote. Jamie Diamond could have been Elizabeth Warren when he said, the American Dream is alive but fraying.

I'm so glad Mr. Diamond has realized what I was trying to tell him, which is for his own workers at his own bank in Orange County, California. They can't make ends meet. They can't afford an apartment, much less safe for anything. And so the business roundtable said, look, shareholders aren't everything. And that is the first time...

I tell you, as someone who graded exams in corporate law, the correct answer to any question in corporate law until Monday was shareholders. Right. So, who do corporations serve? Shareholders. What's the duty of a corporation? Shareholders. So what they said is, no, actually, we should worry about

stakeholders, which they said means workers, which means communities, which means suppliers, which means, you know, customers. This is really revolutionary, and it's going to make my job questioning these witnesses so much more fun. You mentioned Elizabeth Warren. Elizabeth Warren was your

professor? I didn't realize that. Also, your mentor? You named your daughter after her. Correct. But you're not endorsing her. I have not endorsed anyone yet. And I have a really hard time. I mean, I got to tell you, like, I have a little bit of a sob story here. I have three children. I'm a single mom. So while I'm trying

to get the tater tots unstuck, from the pan. Boy do I know. People are talking. You really do. I mean, there's no juice at dinner bill. I'm sorry, not even for you. My children, I have a Booker voter.

He's 13. I have a Kamala voter who's 11. And I have a name for her Elizabeth Warren voter, my daughter Elizabeth. And as soon as I get the family vote consolidated, and we come up with a candidate that I'll be in the position to do more. But I really want to help you truthfully

when I tell my constituents. My vote and my choice isn't what's at stake here. What's at stake is every single person's choice. So we can't leave anything on the table. We have to connect with every kind of vote. Well, I mean, you certainly do. You're from Orange County, which until very recently, like two years ago, was all... Like still today.

Reagan County. Still today. I'm proud to represent a majority of Republicans. Right. And those are Republicans who have good sense. Who are rejecting Trump. Didn't all the Orange County districts go blue? Correct.

Okay. So you have to be, I would guess, a little more in the center to appeal to your constituents. Elizabeth Warren, I mean, I love her, but I hear a lot of analysts say things like, we'll lose 40 states. Elizabeth, that's a 40 state loser election. What do you think about that? I think that we should let the candidates run and win. And in some cases, like the last couple days, run and lose, right? But she's running in the first.

primary, which is not the general election. In a way, you're practicing against the team that resembles nothing like the team. You're going to fight in the game that counts. Fair point, but we also have an opportunity... We also have an opportunity to add more players to our team. To turn out younger voters, to turn out people who don't vote consistently. So our team is not a fixed thing. And by the way, the game is not a fixed thing either.

So when you... And I say this as someone, like the thing that bonds the freshman class together, everybody from Abigail Spanberger to Alyssa to Alexandria Ocasioa Cortez from Max Rose to Rashida Talib is that we don't take corporate PAC money and we understand that corporate abuse is harming our capitalist economy. That's something Elizabeth understands

and we won in Republican districts, in Trump districts, in districts that had never had a Democrat before because we understood that what Americans want is an economy that works for everyone. And here I'm surprised to find myself quoting Jamie Dynie. No. But I...

Shocked, really. But Americans don't think that the economy that works for them is called socialism. Now, I know Elizabeth says she's a capitalist.

She is. I know. But that's not the way she's going to be painted in some of her programs. Let's be honest, sound pretty socialist. I just don't want to know

that George McGovern. I was... I was. Well, you're smarter than those kids who say it doesn't matter because I wasn't alive. You weren't alive

for the Civil War, you know about that, right? Yep. Okay, great. But... But I feel like things worked out better in the Civil War than they did for George McGovern. Yeah, and we don't want that. And he ran against Nixon, who I think people don't realize,

was the Ted Cruz of his day. And a product of Orange County. Just not a popular guy, not a likable, attractive man. A sweaty loser. As far as popular... And he won 49 states. I'm just saying. I think, do you think something like Amy Klobuchar

is actually more electable? I know Elizabeth Warren has all the, you know, Vim and energy right now, but I'm not going to answer that one. I'm just going to tell you this. I think energy matters, and we saw that in 2018. Yeah.

So we had wrecked. I would not be in Congress if it were not for Trump being terrible. Right. That was a big help. And my opponent making some critical mistakes. Right. right? Like voting with

Trump who's terrible but also because we had a record turnout in 2018 so we took our university from 2% voting to 30% voting that's how I won. I wish we knew so I cannot tell you though I think the reason I kind of react on

this one is it's not so much about Elizabeth per se it's that I have only had every single person tell me I couldn't win run and win as a progressive in Orange County and here I sit. I ran I won't I'm working hard for the American people in Congress. I'm asking again for their votes in 2020,

and I think that's a model that people can look to. All right. Well, thank you for coming by. Thank you. I'll see you again here very soon. I hope. Okay, Katie Porter. Let's meet our panel.

How you doing? Nice to meet you. Okay, he is a professor of sociology at NYU, an author of Palaces for the People, how social infrastructure can help fight inequality, polarization, and the decline of civic life. That's the whole book. Eric Kleinenberg is open.

here. Eric, how you doing? He's a Sirius X-M and CNN host and author of Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right. Michael Smirkinish, back with us, Michael. And she's the former Democratic Senator from North Dakota, who is the founder of the One Country Project Initiative, Heidi Heidcam. Great to see you, Heidi.

Don't forget to send us your questions for tonight's overtime, so we can answer them after the show on YouTube. What about my idea to buy the Amazon? Why can you? I can't... Bezos has $130 billion. I read today,

Dave Gilmore of Pink Floyd, sold his guitars. Did you see this? Raised $21.5 million for the environment. But that's not going to get the job done. I mean, it's kind of a sign of how we've come to a crazy place where we're begging for American billionaires to save the world. I mean, it would be amazing if someone went out and purchased it.

I mean, who would object to George Soros buying? the Amazon. I mean, I can't imagine anyone not liking that. I love the objective. One out of five of every breath we take dependent upon the Amazon. Bill, these are the things we look to government to do. Here comes the G7. But they're not. But they're not. And the leadership

normally would be provided by our guy or our female president. And unfortunately, he's a denier on this issue. Think if Tom Steyer took all the money he's going to spend, promoting himself, and actually bought the Amazon. You could do it. You could raise it.

I think, though, you have to think about whether Brazil is letting this happen so that they can deforest the Amazon and therefore develop it. It's just land. People buy land, foreigners do it in this country all the time. The problem is it's... They're buying houses right now that you want. It's Brazil, and then it's Brazil, and then it's Indonesia, and then it's China, then it's the next place. The world is on fire. But this is especially important.

This is a big one, no doubt about it. Start with this one. Fort Greenland. What if we start with electing someone who doesn't think climate change is a hoax? Okay, but that might not happen. This we could actually do. You see, this we don't have to worry and depend upon the electorate, which I don't have any faith in.

But what, you do? No, I think that when you look at what Trump's seeing right now, honestly, he gave a speech on the environment and on energy. Remember this? It was like a... No, he did. He went out and gave a speech. People didn't even notice.

And the reason why he did it is because... was great. No, because he knows that he needs to change his tune to get suburban women and to get those swing boaters back in the circle. First of all, he never changes his tune. And he doesn't know anything. He doesn't change...

Well, that's absolutely true. He doesn't change his tune. He's seriously stupid, but that doesn't mean that he's not politically savvy. I've never seen him go for, oh, I'm going to get a bigger base. He goes for, I'm going to double down on my base. of mouth breathers and ancient eaters.

Every act of this presidency has been predicated on getting the same 46% who came out and elected him to do likewise in 2020. But here's what I think should happen. He knows he's in trouble, but he always wins. Always finds a way to win. He said that today. Okay, so there's a lot of talk

that there's actually going to be a Republican challenger. I think this is another good idea. Who are the sum of the people? Larry Hogan, Governor of Maryland talks about. Bill Weld, already doing it. right? This is what I call Republican classic, the old Republicans, before Trump. Joe Walsh, not the rock god guitarist. Too bad.

The crazy, yeah, congressman, ex-congressant. Mark Sanford, the Appalachian Trail dude. That's what he's known for, but who cares? Jeff Flake, John Kasich. I always admit Mitt Romney could do it. Run in the primary, at least this way, Republican. Republicans are good at winning. We're not. they know how to win. Okay, they're not going to beat Trump in the primary. But at least Republicans will listen to other Republicans. They'll hear Republican classic.

And then whoever comes in second to Trump out of this field runs as an independent in the general. He could take, there must be 5% of Republicans who despise all the horrible things Trump does. I know there are. And they want to vote for Republican classic. But they won't vote for a Democrat. Your state. Very hard to... You won there is hard to believe.

You must have done a great job. I did. I did. And I kept doing a great job. It didn't get me reelected. Right. The problem that you have is any credible Republican, like Mitt Romney,

who seriously knows that this guy is going to lead the country to a place that, well, we might not ever recover from. I mean, there are serious Republicans. They think, okay, if he loses, then I got a chance in four years. They wake up and they look in the mirror. and they see a president, and it's not geared towards saving the country, it's geared towards their political opportunity.

And it's going to be really hard to find someone who will put themselves out there like that to help the country. Look, I've been waiting for years for some Republican of stature to stand up to this man, and instead to promote their careers, they're sacrificing the country and potentially their party as well. I mean, we're heading for disaster with this. Again, we don't have to do that.

Let's not use the things that can. keep not working. Let's do the things that maybe they can work because they're in our control. You can run a third-party candidate. And third-party candidates siphon off even a small amount of the vote. We've seen this. Al Gore in 2000. Right? I mean,

very little. Trump won by how many votes? $77,000 in those three states? A guy on the... Just somebody for Republicans who hate Trump to go, I can't vote for a Democrat because they're evil, but I can vote for John Kasich. And I think that would... This isn't the solution that you're looking for.

I share your desire for there to be a third choice on that stage, not to siphon votes, but to win the whole damn thing. Well, that's not going to happen. I'm convinced that so many of these people who get nominated are so out of touch, and then it's the choice of a less of two evils. Well, it's always a choice of a lesser of two evils. Third-party candidates don't win. They just ruin it for one of them.

Let's make that person Trump this time. Howard Schultz. Howard Schultz. Yeah, you don't even remember him. The Starbucks. I know exactly who you mean. So the point is... He's not a Republican.

Well, he's not a Democrat either, right? So if he... If this were possible, then he would be doing much better than what he's doing. He would have stayed in this and actually figured it out. I mean, he's got billions of dollars.

Right, let him buy the Amazon, let Mitt Romney run against Trump or Kasich. Okay, the other thing I think that could change things is, I've said this for a while, Michael Moore is saying it now, too. I love this. We need a ballot sweetener. Two years ago, we said,

put pot on the ballot. It's our liberal version of guns. It's an issue that people feel... You can get single-issue voters to come out of the House. Turn potheads into single-issue voters. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding.

We can win this election. If the Democratic Party tomorrow would come full-throatedly for full legalization, you could win this election because it's a personal issue. Well, Pot and I were on the ballot at the same time in North Dakota, and we both lost. But that's North Dakota.

And speaking in North Dakota, I'm speaking in North Dakota, I'm here we go. I know you could, I've said this, and I was in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, Saturday night. Lovely place. Loved it. And I go there because I want to. Of course.

They love me, and I love them. Because they're so enthusiastic. They don't think I'm going to come to a place like that. It's fantastic. But there should not be too Dakota. There just should not be. And by the way, Rhode Island, you're part of Massachusetts. That's bullshit, too.

Really. And Delaware is Maryland, and Wyoming and Montana could be one state. I mean, there are states with one district. One district. Your state. South Dakota, Vermont, Wyoming, Alaska, Delaware, Montana. One district. Can we do a...

We have 53. Yeah. Can you do me a favor? can you put South Dakota and Wyoming together and the North Dakota can stay a state? We could smudge them all together. It wouldn't be as big as San Bernardino. If we could blow up the electoral college

while we're doing all that work, I'm all in. Well, that's another thing we can do. But there's a movement to do that because I think... National popular vote. Yeah, 15 states have voted that whoever wins the popular vote gets all your electoral votes. We only need like six more states for that to happen, and we would sort of do a reach-around on the electoral...

Well, look, I mean... One reason why our democracies in crisis and so many people see it as illegitimate is because we keep on voting for someone who doesn't win the presidency. How many times in this country can we vote for someone, give them the majority of the vote for the presidency, and have them lose because of this anachronific electoral college.

But it's also because the Senate is where... The Senate is where legislation goes to die. The House passes all sorts of good stuff, and Mitch McConnell says, forget it, piss up a rope. And that's partly, I'm sorry, because states like the Dakota Territory have four senators, and we have 40 million people, and we have two. You have 51 times the voice a person in your state that we do.

There's no justification. Well, I feel a real obligation here to defend my state and to defend the Constitution. I mean, when you look at when we were created, the great compromise is why we ended up with two senators for every state. But here's an argument. We're born with a good calling, too, when it gets out of shape.

It's not that way anymore. It's hardiness. An argument for it is that we are one country, which is the name of the project that I started, that we all have to start working together and redefine what that American spirit is. when you simply say the coasts have the population and we can just fly over the middle

and the middle can just be on its own. Not fly over them and be on their own, but don't get more of a voice than other people have. People, come on. Take one for the team. This is America. This is what is ruining America. Is that nothing happens because the Senate blocks everything

and the Senate blocks everything because it's not fair. I think in 20 years, like, I'm sorry. So I will tell you this. For two years that I would, was in the Senate. We were in the majority, and the House was in a Republican control. And you know what the House said? The Senate won't take our bills. They passed all this bad shit crazy stuff that was not appropriate, and that was not good for the country, and we were able to stop it because it came to the Senate and the Democrats had control. So things change politically, and you have to be very careful when you change the rules. All right. So there is a high turnover rate at the White House. I don't have to tell you, the turnover rate's ridiculous.

You could be forgiven for not knowing a lot of... Like, if you said to me, no, who's the Secretary of Defense? I can't remember. You know, who's the National Security Advisor? Who was it yesterday? Bolton. But... Bolton, okay.

He's crazy. But one guy who's always there is Stephen Miller. 33-year-old Stephen Miller from Santa Monica, right here. Yeah, he's a great-looking guy. And he has been profiled this week. He's, you know, he's the immigration hardliner. Two, the major papers, the Post and the New York Times both profiled him on the front page this week, so we thought it was time to do 25 things you don't know about Stephen Miller.

Originally, I used to give credit to Us magazine, but screw them, they never thanked me for it, so I'm just saying, we're stealing it now, it's ours, I'm never going to mention you again. 25 things, Bill Moore's 25 things, you don't know. About Stephen Miller. I'm currently dating a headless Nordstrom mannequin. In high school, I was voted most likely to comb my mummified mother's hair. I think tacos are stealing jobs from hamburgers. Oh, that is ridiculous.

I would kill to have hair like Donald Trump. Correction, I have killed to have hair like that. I'm a cancer. I don't know my astrological sign. If I need time alone, I go anywhere. The worst part about my car is smelling like wet dogs. is that I don't own dogs. I use spray on hair,

but not on my head. In college, my style was dubbed Nazi geek, which explains my nickname Pee-Wee German. And I can't get automatic sinks to turn on because I don't have a soul. All right, he is a reporter and columnist for the National Review

on the New York Coast, an author of the smallest minority independent thinking in the age of mob politics, Kevin Williamson. Kevin, who are you, sir? I don't think you. Don't know why? Good to have you back.

Okay, so we're going to get to some of your history with the Atlantic. I know they fired you after three... My favorite thing to talk about, really. Well, you had a rather outlier opinion there about abortion. We'll get to that later. Let's talk about

more first what I think we are more sympathico on, your book, and I think the theme of it, I would agree with. It's sort of a call to arms against mob rule. Right. This is why you should like electoral college, by the way. So you're wrong about this. Because like me, you don't trust big masses of people because they tend to be stupid and easy to scare. And all the best things about our

Constitution are the anti-democratic things, like the Bill of Rights, which is America's great, big list of stuff that you idiots don't get to vote on. If we had put slavery up to a vote in 1960, it would have won. It would want 70 to 30. If we put free speech up to a vote today, it would probably lose. Okay. I don't see what that is to do with the Electoral College. But Because the electoral college is how we ensure that the states actually mean so. I know, but that's a stretch. That's sort of like that logic that says, you know, free speech is, money is free speech, which is bullshit, too. Actually, I don't think so.

Well, free speech is, money is not free speech. That's sort of the argument that they're making. You have freedom of the press, but if you want to buy a press and it's $100 million, well, you can't do that because that's big money in journalism. Okay, but let's talk about what we like about each other. Because... We've got a lot of time to come up there. It's a short list, and I really want to get to it. But I feel like you and I both feel like the individual thinker

is being driven to extinction by tribal politics and political correctness. I feel that way, too. Absolutely. I sometimes feel like a man without a country. And, you know, this country, you talk about the history of the country, founded on individualism. What's happened is that we've taken the normal sort of team sport aspects of politics

and we've elevated that to the exclusion of everything else because our politics is no longer really about the boring questions like whether our top tax rates can be 39% or 34.5%. No one's having sobbing fits in public over that. Our politics has become about what kind of person am I, what kind of person are you

and this weird social media ritual of hating people together in public. So it's, you know, we're the good guys, they're the bad guys, here are the all the awful things about them. Here's all the awful, the great things about us or the awful things about us. I mean, I'm an anti-Trump conservative,

so, you know, I feel a lot of awful things about myself and people around me. But, you know, it's a conflict of time for people like us, for Eisenhower Republicans, and it's a hard, it's a hard, kind of weird world. You quit Twitter for this reason, right? Oh, I quit Twitter because it wasn't really very good use of time.

You know, I'm a writer, and like a lot of writers, I tend to procrastinate, and so when I'm supposed to be doing real work, it's tempting to get on Twitter and say like, well, who's being stupid today? Let me go find them. And I end up smacking around some undergraduate from Lehigh College or something, which is not really the best use of my time.

I mean, I'm expensive. You don't want to pay me to spend my time doing that. But, I mean, you do write in your book about how social media, which I think is a generational thing. Would you say that? Sure, yeah. There's a generation of people who've grown up sort of as digital natives. You know, I was in college before I sent an email.

But there are people who've grown up only in that world, and so they're used to this instantaneous feedback. And that's really the sort of devious underlying structure of social media is that we're all naturally insecure about our status. And so they've taken this question of status and put a number on it. You know, you've got this number of friends, you've got this many followers, they've got this many likes, that sort of thing. And so people go to it for a quick little, you know, dopamine hit to make them feel better.

It's not really about politics. It's about saying, please pay attention to me. I've realized that recently that a lot of times people are writing. They don't even believe. They just know it'll get likes. You know, I had a poster once when we, you know, have a vacation and we come back. We need a poster out there, a billboard. And they were showing me all these different ones.

And we've been on a long time. It's like hard to find something new. And I could tell they were kind of scared to show me that I didn't like anything. And it was me, and it said, he's not in it for the likes. And I thought, I am so proud to stand on that billboard. That's, really. They're addicted to likes. And it's for what?

What does that get you? Yeah, and it's particularly bad for journalists, I think, because journalists have recast themselves as being a species of politician. So you're no longer someone who writes stuff. You're someone who's there to represent a constituency and try to win elections and things like that. I have people sometimes ask me, well, what is it you're trying to do

to help get Republicans elected this year? And I tell, well, nothing. They ain't my job. I mean, they don't pay me to do that. Right. No, and I like the way you say, you know, it's very rare to find anybody anymore who surprises you with an opinion.

But you did, and this is what got you fired at the Atlantic, because your opinion, I mean, you're a Catholic, your opinion on abortion is pretty out there. I mean, you said, I believe that the law should treat abortion like any other homicide, and then you yourself introduced the word hanging. That's pretty out there, don't you think? Yeah, that's not exactly where I'm on that, because I'm anti-capital punishment,

but I have argued in the past that if we're going to have capital punishment, it should be some forthrightly violent means of capital punishment. One of the things that's really creepy about the way we do it now, it's the pseudo-medical thing where you've got someone on a gurney with medical stuff. Okay, but we're talking about fetuses now. Yeah. That's a different issue. You want to kill people who have abortions or doctors?

No, I don't want to execute anybody. Treat abortion like any other homicide and hang. in the context of a different argument. So the thing was, well, we don't think you take abortion seriously if you're not willing to treat it like a homicide. And I think that if we're going to prohibit abortion, that's the category of things that it should be prohibited under. Because if abortion isn't a homicide, there's no reason to prohibit at all.

What about the man who gets the girl pregnant? Does he get, is he an accessory to murder? Yeah. I was just talking about cheap, stupid applaud lines that people give when they're in it for the likes. Because the question of getting someone pregnant It's an entirely different thing. So we're talking about, if you believe... But it's part of a responsibility.

Right, and he should be made responsible for it. He should certainly have responsibility for the kid over the course of his life. But it's not as though a man can stop a woman for having abortion. I mean, a man who performs an abortion, sure. Okay. As they do in radical, crazy right-wing places like France,

where abortion is illegal after the 12th week of pregnancy. And if you're a doctor, you do want, you lose your medical license and go to prison. They go to prison? Yes, for up to 10 years. Is French people in prison for performing abortions? No, because they don't perform them illegally. Okay.

I mean, there may be. All right, let's not get sadder. Let's move on to something I think you'll more agree with, which is... But let me just finish that thought, though. Abortion, if it's not homicide, it ain't tax evasion, it ain't littering. If it's not homicide, there's no reason to prohibit at all. There's no reason to worry about it. It's just contraception.

But if it is homicide, then that's... Okay. So, then we start talking about hanging. Okay. So, Sean Spicer is going to be on... See how I lightened that up? He's going to be on Dancing with the Stars, and so there has been a boycott called for Dancing with the Stars,

and I am not going to watch Dancing with the Stars just like the other 27 seasons when I didn't watch Dancing with the Stars. But this boycott culture, Now, Congresswoman Talib suggested that they boycott my show because last week I was talking about there it is, maybe we should boycott... This is when Israel boycotted her,

so she said, boycots are terrible and then wanted to boycott me because I was expressing... Now, we've invited her on the show. I hope she comes. But, you know, if you come on the show, then you have to actually defend your point as opposed to this one go-to

that so many people seem to have today, which is just go away. Because then you don't have to argue. You don't have to defend your point of view. Just go away. boycott, you're bad, too evil to talk to, and I'm too good to talk to you. I have... This is just a beginning of a list.

Conservatives want to boycott Ben and Jerry, Gillette, Curig, Macy's, Nike, because of Colin Kaepernick, Nordstrom's, because they don't... Remember, they don't sell Ivanka's pantyhose or whatever? Liberals want to boycott Equinox, Soul Cycle, Chick-fil-A, in-and-out, Hobby Lobby, NASCAR, both lists me. I'm on both lists. But here we are. But isn't this ridiculous?

It is ridiculous. Thank you. The answer is whether it's you, Sean Spicer, Tucker Carlson, I've had to address all of these on radio. The solution is, change the channel. If you don't like it, let the market decide. Because the problem today is, this relates to what you were talking about with Kevin

and looking for likes. In the social media world, you know, to quote the president, a 300 person sitting in New Jersey, in their basement can create an astroturf non-organic movement that creates the impression to advertisers that there's something going on out there and they run for cover. Let the market govern this.

Right. I hope so. Well, what about the market for this issue? It's kind of a good week to talk about this. It's Me Too redemption issue because Mark Halpern, remember him? He... Look, I always say it's a case-by-case. We don't know. He denied the worst of it, which was an accusation that he used to rub his heart on against women at the office.

He admitted to, like, him appropriately asking them out, denied the worst, but of course he's going to. And then there's Al Franken, who I have defended many times and said, I don't think he did that shit. Okay? So it depends. But what, we need, like, a court, like a redemption court, because, like Mark Halper, he's been going to. two years. He did lose everything at the time, but now he's got a book out. So he interviewed a lot of Democratic strategists, and now they're all having to back pedal

saying, people are saying, why are you in his book? Mark Halpern. And I'm asking, who decides? What is the... Does he never get to come back? You know what we have that's better than redemption court? What? Court. There are people who do things that are illegally.

You can charge them with crimes or there are civil cases. You know, Norman Mailer was really hard on women. He stabbed his wife. in the chest in public. Almost killed it. At a party with a penknife. Right. Went to jail for it, spent some years on probation.

It was adjudicated through the courts. Would we be better off if they had canceled all of his book contracts after 1960 and no one ever read Executioner's on? I don't think so. There's a reason that we take these things. It's a good book, you know? I know, but you can't justify stabbing with a good book. No, you can justify stabbing with a good book.

I'm not trying to get applause. And he didn't go to court and say, hey, I'm a good writer. you can't convict me of this crime. You got convicted of the crime. Why bring that into it? Who cares if he was a garbage man? Because the things that Mark Halperin's accused of doing are crimes. And there are things that you can be sued for.

Right. So take them to court. Adjudicate it there. Don't try to adjudicate it through Michael's show or through the HR opposite or the I will own this because he re-emerged on my program. My calculus as one who is privileged to have this platform and am I going to extend the invitation to him was this. Has he owned it and has he been punished?

you know that he wrote game change and doubled down, lost the deal for what he would have written about the last one, lost the HBO movie that would have been adapted by, lost all of his gigs, sat out for 500 days, and I thought had been punished enough. And if not, then I asked the question, are we advocating a professional death sentence for someone like him?

Because I'm not comfortable with that. Right. And you said you regretted helping push Al out loud. Right. So it turned into group think, which is what you're talking about. Right. sudden there's a huge litmus test out there and you're either peer or you're not peer and you can't do any critical thinking, any kind of nuanced discussion. And I knew at the time that I did it, and I'm not proud to say this, that it was wrong.

I mean, my parents taught me doing that kind of group think was wrong, but we did it because we were in the panic of the moment. And I told Al that and Al said, well, you know, would you tell that to anyone who asked you? I said, absolutely. I'll own it, and I'd own it even if I were in the Senate, because at some point, we as the accusers, we as the judges, have to make a decision on when is enough enough. And I think Helpern, I don't think he's particularly going to enlighten me with any great political ideas.

I'm not going to read his book. I don't care if he comes back. El Frank and I think still has something to give in this country. Yes. Very different. Right. And so for me, and I'm not saying, I'm not criticizing, Michael, but for me, I made my decision on what part of this I owned that I needed to own up to.

And I think we all have to judge, because if you look at the whole discussion, there but for the grace of God go all of us. And if you're perfect, then you can throw the stone. If you're not perfect, then maybe you ought to allow some amount of compassion and forgiveness. The one challenge that we have in this country is we don't forgive enough. But all the stuff I still think would be easier if we would rely on the processes where we have things like due process and standards of evidence when these things actually are in many cases legal questions. A lot of this stuff is things, well, you have people come out and say this happened to me 10 years ago or 15 years ago, and there are reasons for that, and we should make it easier for people to file charges,

and we should make it easier for women to pursue these things when they have been victimized in that way. But when it comes up 20 years after the fact, because someone's been named to the Supreme Court or something else, then you're way past the place where you've got useful standards of evidence and useful process. Well, that's... It's all fine and good if the criminal justice system and the civil justice system were equally accessible to everybody in a power position. That's true. I think one other thing we've been reckoning with is that it's important for organizations where people work to take these things more seriously as well. And one thing that's come out of this Me Too movement is that we're seeing employers, managers, start to listen to women's concerns about violence in the workplace.

And that is long overdue. And there's one other thing that this conversation reminds me of, which is that one problem with today is that we try to resolve these issues in the worst possible place, which is Twitter, social media. I mean, how much more meaningful is the conversation of a group of people sitting around the table who disagree with each other

but can be there face-to-face in real social infrastructure, having an interaction versus doing it in this place that takes us from zero to 60 in a flash. And it's such a small sliver of people, and it doesn't represent the vast majority, even of liberals. I don't understand does that charity stand up

to cancer? I want to start stand up to Twitter. Right. People start and have to say this doesn't represent anything. But if you think about these two conversations, we have a political system where officials are not representing us, and we have a social media world that we spend all of our time in that doesn't represent us. And I think what we're seeing is

a real world of people who are spending their time day to day in this country, actually engaging each other and figuring out how to do a lot of things that you wouldn't quite understand if all you did is look at the catastrophe in the news. Can I just say that it also, social media brings out the beer muscles in everyone. I pay

close attention to the reaction to Halper on my program. The callers are overwhelmingly supportive of hearing what he has to say about the 2020 cycle. But man, go look at social media. Look at social media tonight. Right. After I say what I've said here, it'll be ugly. Oh, don't kill me just for having you on. I'm

platforming you. Anyway, all right, thank you, panel. You've all been platformed, but it's time for new rules. New Rule, someone must tell me why all the overpriced restaurants have names with two words and an ampersand. Faith in flour, pine and crane, church and state, and the most pretentious one of all, arm and leg. A little starter joke to build up to the... New Rule, to combat the skyrocketing rate of packaged thefts from porches, online retailers must open locations where customers can safely pick up.

their orders. And while they're at it, they must store other products at these locations that people might also need. In fact, they could call these locations stores. New rule, this Greek farmer trying to save his goat from a wildfire has to explain

why the goat seems so hesitant to go with him. I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just saying, it is fire. You think the goat would be glad to go, but instead the goat is like, you know what, I'll take my chances with the

flames. It's odd, that's all I'm saying. New Roll, horses need to stop having better hair than people. Are you a herd or a boy band? Isn't it enough that you're hung like a horse? New Rule, the recipients of the hair-lost tattoo, the

tattoo that makes a bald head look like a shaved head, need to tell me exactly who they think they're fooling? How about this? Instead of a tattoo of nubs on your head, tattoo a face up there. That way, when you look down at your phone, people think you're still paying attention.

And finally, new rule, if Donald Trump is looking for a legacy, don't buy Greenland. Save Greenland. That should be your legacy, Mr. President. And I'll tell you something else. If you get religion on global warming and become the greatest echo warrior

we've ever had in politics, I will vote for you. I tweeted that last week. I guess some people thought I was kidding. I'm not. I don't know if you are following the news about the environment, but it is definitely at the last chance, whatever it takes, moment. And I know the president is hearing me,

because last week he tweeted this, saying he saw the show by accident. He said the same thing a couple of years ago. How do you watch an HBO show for an hour by accident? When it was over, did you say, hey, that wasn't ballers? Boy, that Bill Maher looks just like the rock. But look, I'm glad we're talking, sir. At one of your recent rallies, you called me a serious person, and I appreciate that.

You also called me third raid and a so-called comedian, and then a respected comedian. I guess I'm complicated. You also said I was wacky, which isn't really that big an insult for a comedian. Side-splitting comedian Bill Maher. But look, I'm not here to fight. I'm here to offer my vote. And so, Mr. President, Your Excellency. Least racist person in the world.

Let me address you directly and try to win you over with logic. Because I know flattery simply will not work. You're impervious to it. Bounces off you like bullets from Superman's chest. So I'm not even going to try that. Not on a man as great as you. I'm not that wacky. I'd look foolish trying,

and you would see through it right away because you're a stable genius. And did I mention handsome? When I see you and Melanning it together, I always think which one was the model? But, sir, picture this headline. Trump, same. Earth.

Feels right, doesn't it? And all it would take is for you to undergo a sudden, profound change like the Grinch when he saved Christmas. How befitting a man of such power, of such great intellect, and large, completely un-mushroom-like

penis. Someone who has the most beautiful words and a slavish devotion to the truth. I bet if you do this, the people will put your face on the $100 bill combining your two great loves, money and you. And then, I think they will put you on Mount Rushmore.

That'd be a switch, huh? Someone chiseling you. Right, no, no, no. I was kidding. I'm sorry, please, Mr. President, before you change the channel and go back to your chess game. Look, I know, I know we've tangled in the past. You sued me once and And we both have said some things. You called me stupid, not considered smart. A dummy, not a smart guy.

The dumbest man on television. Fired like a dog. Very sad, pathetic, bloated and gone. Dumbass. A rather dumb guy. A low-life dummy. Dopey. Dumb as a rock. Moron, stupid guy.

A very dumb guy. Failing comedian. And most hurtful of all. Rosie is smarter. And I called you a whiny little bitch. But I'm just going to admit it right now. I was jealous. I always have been. I mean, who's kidding who?

We both know you have the best brain and everything you take on is an incredible success. You won the trade war. You built the wall. You effortlessly solved the Middle East. And Stormy Daniels is still basking in the afternoon. of your incredible love me. Women want to be with you,

and men want to be like you. I know I do. In fact, as a tribute to you, I've taken to wearing, I'll show you, toilet paper on my shoe. And I'm sure many would follow. If you embrace the environment, think about the A-listers, who

overnight would become your biggest fans. Brad, Matt, Clooney. The White House would be like Ocean's 11. Taylor Swift will be begging to follow you on Twitter. DiCaprio will love you. Giselle will love you.

Ivanka will get invited to parties again. You'll be a big hero in her eyes, and we know you love her in a completely appropriate way. Look, sir, you're already the greatest president ever. That's a fact because people are saying it. So I can see why you might be thinking, why do I need to gild a lily?

I've already saved mankind from extinction once after Obama. Do I have to do it twice? Yes, sir. I'm afraid you do. Please, sir, lend your giant brain to work with the other lesser brains in the scientific community.

And if you save the planet, billions of children will be grateful and one of them could be your next wife. So please, remember my pledge. Become a pit bull for planet Earth and you won't need Russia to hack my polling place. I will vote for you.

I will take my paper ballot and put my prick next to your face. That's our show. Catch all new episodes of real time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10 or watch them anytime on HBO On Demand. For more information, log on to HBO.com.