Real Time with Bill Maher - Ep. #517: Megyn Kelly, Ingrid Newkirk

Episode Date: January 25, 2020

Bill’s guests are Megyn Kelly, Ingrid Newkirk, Erick Erickson, Alex Wagner, and Michael McFaul. (Originally aired 1/24/20) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late-night series, Real Time with Bill Maugh. Start the clock. Thank you. I think I know why you're happy. Because the big March for Life rally happened today.

Was anybody at the March for Life? No, well, back in Washington. President Trump, the first President, sitting president, ever to address a March for Life rally. And he did not disappoint these people. Boy, it was all about how great it is to bring his money,

babies into the world, and you can. It was like a Trump rally. At one point, the crowd was chanting, knock her up. Knock her up. But, you know, those evangelicals, they love Trump. Even though he knows shit about Christianity

and makes everything about himself. He was trying to talk to that. He said, told this rally, he said, Jesus was persecuted from the day he came down the escalator. which is not true. Trump was very clear. No abortion.

The only exceptions are rape, incest, and the looks of the mother. And, hey, you. And to those skeptics who think Trump is not sincere about this, he put that to rest. He said, if I thought abortion was not an option, how do you explain Eric? So the media has a new thing

to whip up a public panic about the coronavirus. Are you into the coronavirus? Okay, started in China and quickly moved and spread to Japan and South Korea and Thailand and Taiwan and the United States now. And health officials are worried. They say, this is how K-pop got started. But it was likely, they say, started in...

I'm so glad Ingrid Newkirk is here tonight. She can talk about this in an exotic Chinese food market where they sell things where people eat things like. salamanders and bats and snakes don't even ask about the dollar menu because that is it is it's just pigs assholes it's terrible I once ate in one of these plays oh it was years ago I was in China and I was before woke and all that and I regretted I could tell something was wrong I ordered the bat and the guy said do you want flies with that now there are interesting.

I'm grossed out into applause. I like that. It's an interesting switch on the into applause thing. But, no, I'm not worried about this. They are close to a cure, and we're almost there.

They say the last piece of the puzzle with the coronavirus is getting the lime into the IV. It's a crazy name for this is it. No, no. We don't want to make too much light. There are two cases in America.

They are taking it seriously. They are examining people now who have a trancey. traveled internationally. You know who traveled internationally in this time period just got home President Trump? They told him

for the next couple of weeks lie into your elbow. So what else is in the news? Oh, Trump, yes. The President of the United States is getting impeached. That happened. I don't know what we're so happy about it.

Not a good thing and it's not going to come out right and, of course, this is the Senate. This is the Republicans' turf. It's Mitch McConnell's rules. Boy, these rules are strict. No coffee. Do you see that? No coffee, no cell phones, no talking, and of course, no facts.

This, a... The Democrats tried to have witnesses brought... No, a trial without witnesses. Have you ever seen it? A trial? It's like a fish concert without rolling papers. And I tell you, even without witnesses and without the documents that they ask, it's still, when you see the whole thing laid out like this, so indisputable.

Schiff, I got to say, was magnificent. What? Did you see this? This is true. Even Lindsey Graham, as big a Trump lover as Lindsey Graham went up to Adam Schiff and said, it was an honor just to ignore you. So that's where we are

in America here on January 24, 2020. No matter what President Trump does, no matter how heinous or obvious the crime, he will get a full and excited, from the Republicans in the Senate. And therein lies the difference between this impeachment trial

and the Clinton impeachment trial. The Clinton trial began with the presidential blowjob. This one will end with one. All right. We've got a great show. We have Alex Wagner, Eric Erickson, and Michael McSvall. And a little later, we'll be speaking with my friend, Peter founder, Ingrid Newkirk, is here.

But first up, yes, a big hand for Ingrid Newkirk. Who do you think... What is wrong with you people? First up, for 12 years, she was Fox News' biggest prime time star, and she me-toed Roger Ailes before Me Too was a thing. Megan Kelly is over here. I told you they'd be nice. See, I'm glad you got a warm round of applause.

Thank you. I love that movie. Before I get to that, I just want to ask you, this presidential campaign, you covered a few of them. Yep. I know when I'm off and lots of stuff is happening, it kind of eats at me. Are you myths being on the air? No, because it's very easy to keep up with the news because it's ubiquitous, right?

It's Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. But to give your side of it, you don't miss that? I guess I miss... You had a big voice. I miss sort of being a voice of reason in the storm, you know, because there's so much hysteria in the media for and against. And when I left the Kelly file, I remember feeling like I might have a societal obligation to stay because I did owe it to my audience to separate.

the wheat from the chaff, and I thought I did a good job of it. But I have three little people who I owe more to in my apartment. And... Midgets? No. Oh, chill. I'm sorry. I don't have children. I never think children first. You don't know what you're missing.

Yeah. Actually, I do. And I'm thrilled about it. But, okay, but that's you and that's me. So I've been doing something more important. I know. Looking after the election is much like looking after a bunch of children. But I'm doing the real thing right now.

But I saw the... I watched bombshell. Very entertaining. And, you know, you came out very well in it. I mean, I said, you know, you're Me Too to guy. But this is a long time before Me Too, and this is literally what it was. Gretchen Carlson is out there saying Roger Ailes did that, and then they're looking for somebody else to go, me too.

Because if somebody else doesn't, she's hung out to dry. So you've got to feel kind of good about how they portrayed you in the liberal media. I mean, look, I didn't know what to expect because I have nothing to do with the movie. you know, I didn't know what was going. I didn't know when they were shooting or anything. There was an incident early on where my mom, who lives in upstate New York, where I'm from, called me up, and she said, why don't you tell me they were making a movie about you?

I'm like, Ma, I don't know anything about it. She goes, I want Stormy Daniels to play me. I have no clout. She didn't get a role. She was disappointed. And then she tells me, she goes, when I stood up in the theater and told everyone I was your mother, they said very nice things about you.

I'm like, oh, for the love of God. So, anyway, it, look, My takeaway on it is the movie was a force for good because it helped shine a light on how it's done, how women who may not be that well connected. You know, Gretchen and I, we don't really know each other. We haven't spoken since

before we both left Fox. But you had that in common. You both had to twirl for Roger Ailes. I mean, that's, you know, I posted this response on my YouTube channel to the movie. And I did that because I wanted, just to have my response contained in one place. I don't want to keep talking

about this movie over and over. And I did it with women who went through what I went through. But the twirl was demeaning. Oh, I remember. Especially if you have a law degree. Well, that's the thing. I had argued before courts of appeal across the country.

I was covering the U.S. Supreme Court. And never twirled for them. I mean, and you earn your way up. And, like, the thing about the twirl is, and a lot of other bad, worse things happened to me than the twirl. But the thing about the twirl is, it isn't about seeing your ass.

It's about demeaning you. It's about subjugation. It's about, can I control you? Right. Yeah. So I've heard you say media is broken. What do you mean by that? Where do you go with that? I mean, you know it's true, right?

Like, it just, the media is so messed up right now. It's disheartening to me. And I've felt this way for a long time. Not just since Trump. And I know, you know, Trump's rhetoric is too strong, the enemy of the people and all that. And I know why he says it. There are still amazing journalists out there doing great work.

but the media is completely biased. And what's happened now, as I live in the country... Bias politically? Oh, 100%. Yes. Oh, come on. You worked for Fox News. I think there's another side to the story.

Of course, Bill. Of course. But Fox News was born and did so well because it was the only voice offering the other side of the coin. And the rest of the media was biased toward the left. You know what the media is biased towards money.

They're biased toward money and conflict because that's what sells. I don't think... Like, I was watching the Virginia rally this week. There was a gun rally. It was peaceful. And you could see how disappointed the media was that the civil war didn't break out. Right.

Right. Of course. That's what I think the media bias is. More than politics. No, because, look, I think there was a liberal slant in the media even before Trump got in there. But he went in there and now, like, take CNN. He came in there and said, CNN is completely biased to the left. They're lefties.

they're completely against me. And my take on it was in the beginning, he was wrong. CNN wasn't that way. I used to watch CNN all the time when I was at Fox. When I was getting ready for the Kelly File, I'd have on CNN, and I'd watch a lot of their shows. And I like a lot of the anchors over there. But my view is CNN became the thing Trump said they were and they weren't,

and now they are. Now they're indistinguishable from MSNBC. But you have to admit, it's very hard to cover a guy like Trump who does off. things. Oh, you do agree. No, I agree. Yes, of course. Okay. Well, then you're going to look left wing. No. Because you're

totally wrong. I totally disagree with you. When I was on doing the Kelly File, at prime time 9 p.m. on Fox News, he was attacking me for nine months straight, right? I remember. I remember. It took everything in me to go out on the set night after night and not make it personal and not have a vendetta against him

and not be overly harsh on him because of what he was doing to me and my family. But I did it. It's doable. You just have to remember, it's not about you. It's about the audience and the truth. So here, okay, and you know what? What's great is, you know, I keep saying all year long, you know, you can hate Trump, you can't hate the people who like them.

I've heard you say that. You know, we can disagree and still be friends. We have a lot in common. We were both shit-canned by major broadcast networks. I was, right? I was shit-can by ABC. You were shit-can by... BC. It's not the worst thing in the world

that happens to you. And I tell you, when that happened to you, I was angry for you. Honestly. Because this cancel culture, it's so funny. When they do polls, they find like 80 to 90% of the people in this country hate this shit. Even liberals

hate this shit. That's right. This is one reason why Trump got elected because people hate political correctness so much that'll even take it in the mouth of a werewolf like that when he's not politically correct. Because he's a fighter. Right, because a fighter package that comes in. Right. But when individual instances come up,

everybody is so afraid to stand up. I mean, you even apologize for something that I didn't think was that awful. It's like, why can't you just say, okay, I was a little inartful about how I expressed that. My bad. I'm sorry. Move on with our lives. Instead of, no, you have to go

away for all time. Well, who are these perfect people who have never made any mistake? I mean, My own take on it is the country's going through something right now. You know, the marginalized groups are rising up and trying to find positions at the table, equal positions.

And that's a good thing. The difference is in approach. How do we do it? And I understand this fight because as a woman and somebody who's been in the position I was in that we talked about, I have also felt marginalized at times and like I don't have an equal footing.

but the question is do we do it with grace and humanity and understanding that people make mistakes and that we're all imperfect and we're going to screw up maybe more than once and charity. Right, and kindness and an understanding that we're all only here for a limited time and we can't expect

a perfect score of any person. What's galling is that the people who hate bullying are always bullying. You know, like if you even talk about this, it'll only make it worse. That's bullying. The people who love diversity except of opinion. There's only one true opinion. Well, that's what the right half of the country is

worried about. They wonder where the ideological diversity is, right? Because, I mean, I think people... Well, they do it too. Of course. And they're fucking snowflakes, too. They do it, but... But the woke... Yes. The woke people are on the... They're not even left. They're like far and left. Exactly. They're

not left. I don't know what they are. They're like fringy. They're gross. Because all they care about is getting a scalp on the wall. They don't care if you're really a racist, which you're not. They don't care about a million things. That's what they care about. And and they always want to find the worst version of what any person is. Absolutely.

I just want to believe, yes, the worst possible interpretation about this. Well, that's like what President Obama was saying, right? That's not activism. When you sit with your palms on your phone and pretend you've never committed a sin and never will commit a sin, right? Right. Like, I'll just sit in judgment of everyone. Right.

Like, one of the great things about this country is the younger generations have typically helped the older generations understand new ways of looking at things. Like, that's how we've evolved. Take gay marriage. That's one thing. Like, hey, you know, maybe the way you were looking at this wasn't so cool. Maybe there's another way we could live and recognize each other's love. And they never just canceled the generation that came before them because they didn't immediately agree or start talking about the issues in the way they wanted.

I mean, if that were the case, we wouldn't have had an Obama second term. Obama wasn't for a gay marriage in its first term, right? Yeah. And so I feel like somehow we have to get back to. talking to each other. So there's buy-in so people feel heard and we allow for disagreement, respectful, kindness. So if we...

I don't have time to get to Trump. I think we would disagree about that a little and that would be okay. So I hope you come back and we'll talk about that. Oh, thanks for having me, for. All right, thanks. Megan Kelly. Congratulations on the movie.

All right, let's meet our panel. Okay, here they are. She is the co-host and executive producer of Showtime's The Circus and a special correspondent for CBS News. Alex Wagner, great to see you back, Alex. All right, he is the former U.S. ambassador to Russia and author of From Cold War to Hot Peace,

an American ambassador in Putin's Russia. Michael McFaul is over here. Hey, Eric, he's the editor of The Resurgent and host of the Eric Erickson show on WSB Radio. Eric Erickson. Thank you for being here, Eric. I was watching the impeachment all week, and I was trying to think of

what would be the names of like, movies when they make it about Trump and I thought there's so many titles that come to mind a clockwork orange would be good you know say anything and hairspray from Russia with love

and they saved Hitler's brain you know there's a lot of but honestly the movie is Julius Caesar that's where we are if you remember your Roman history

and I'm sure very few people do. But Shakespeare wrote a play about it. There have been movies about it and before that it was real history. This is the moment in America that Rome faced with Julius Caesar when the Republic became

a dictatorship. I know they're going to acquit them but the fact that we had this trial and there was no witnesses and we don't care about laws anymore or rules or what matters when it goes from nation of laws, Republicans,

to Senate that just goes along and might is right. That's that moment. I know this sounds overly dramatic. No, it's not. It's not. It's heartbreaking. I mean, I think it's farce that there are Republican senators in the audience with fidget spinners, right? That's something to sort of chuckle at.

But when you think about the gravity of the moment, this is a test of liberal democracy. This is, does the project work? Or has one party become so corrupted by power that they're shredding the basic principles of what the country stands for. As I say, you can hate Trump, you can't hate people who like him, which is good for you, Er. Well, thank you.

You know, because I don't want this to be hard on you, but it's going to be. I understand. I actually don't think that this is the fall of the country or the end of a republic. He's going to stand for election in November. If it's not close, he can't cheat if you think he cheats.

I think the polling, actually, and the data suggests that he's got problems headed into an election, I do think that we are a bitterly divided 50-50 country where Republicans say about the Democrats trying to do this impeachment exactly what you're saying about the Republicans and that this is best left at the ballot box in November so that one side, if they're dominant enough, can win and we can actually say, you know what, actually our democracy does work.

But if it's supposed to be at the ballot box, right? Let's just go with that argument for a minute. Shouldn't we have all the facts about the candidates, right? Yeah. You know, let's just, it's happened in November, but shouldn't we know what happened? That to me seems like a pretty principle thing about the moment. Doesn't it bother you that they don't want witnesses? It's interesting.

You know, the Democrats would like witnesses because they know he's guilty. And the Republicans don't want witnesses because they know he's guilty. What they have in common is they know he's guilty. What kind of innocent person does not want everything to come forward? See, I don't think the Democrats actually want the witnesses. But why don't the Republicans want? Why don't the Republicans want the witness? Oh, because they know exactly what will happen.

Yes, this will be bogged down. Because they'll have the president. Logged down with the facts? I agree what the president did was wrong and that the president shouldn't have done it. And you will get that testimony. They also know that they will get the testimony. They still won't vote to convict him. But the John Bolton thing, I think John Bolton should be called his witness.

And I'm not opposed to witnesses. but I don't actually think the Democrats want Bolton called because they don't know what he'll say and I have a hard time believing that a guy like that They do want him called and they've made that plain and it's not their it's not the Democrats of preventing John Bolton from coming

Bolton wants to testify Yes Bolton's a guy that said this was a drug deal By the way several of his deputies People I know personally by the way Already testified And if we heard many many times We can't just have hearsay he's the guy that said it Have him testify and let the cards

I would love to have him testify, but I really don't think either side want you. Well, why can't you convince you the Republican friends to agree with you? Wait, wait until they get to the motions again. The motion will come back on Bolton. I just feel like the simple fact is it doesn't really matter who testifies. It doesn't matter how much evidence there is. It doesn't matter.

I mean, it doesn't matter. I mean, Trump himself has admitted to as much. You have a party for whom there is, there is no amount of evidence that can be presented to the Republican Party that will make them leave this president. I don't... I mean, it's just, that's where we're at. I don't know why... Yeah, I don't know why the Republicans

they get this patriotic immunity, I call it. You know, he's doing Putin's talking points, right? You know this better than anybody. Putin's the one who put that idea in their heads. Correct. That it was Ukraine, which is completely crazy.

Crowd strike. Where did that come from? It's just made up. Vladimir Putin, yes. You know, I don't get why... The president, there was 34 people injured in the Iranian attack that we found out now, and they have traumatic brain injuries, and Trump said they're just headaches. They're not like injuries I've ever seen.

How would he know? He never went to war. He's not seen injuries. But, okay, he went to a hospital. But why... The flag wave, that doesn't bother you? A lot of it bothers me. A great deal of it bothers me.

but I think that this has to be settled at the ballot box when the nation is as divided as parties. But there was no timeline that the founders outlined for impeachment. They weren't like, hey, impeach the president as long as it's not an election year. I mean, I think that argument that because it's an election year,

impeachment proceedings shouldn't be going on. I don't understand. I don't know. What is the point of impeachment? Just tell me this, Eric. I know you are what I call a boomerang trumper because you were... No, first you were for Trump.

then you became a never-trumper. You said he's a fascist with an enemy's list. You said in February of 2016, I will not vote for Donald Trump ever. Now you're back. Yeah. Why the boomerang? What brought you back from,

I will never vote for a fascist with an enemy's list? To fascist with an enemy's list? Yeah, yeah. Not so bad. Yeah, but there are a lot of Democrats out there with enemies list as well. Okay, just tell me what's worse than a fascist with an enemy's list. Because obviously you think you don't like Trump that much,

But you think something's worse. Tell me what's worse than a fascist with an enemy's list. Raising the minimum wage? But what are they, what, exactly what? Let's see. What are they going to do that's worse than the fascist? Bernie Sanders' entire economic policy, or Elizabeth Warren's entire economic policy? Worse than fascism?

Yeah, I think they're about as fascist as Trump when it comes to that. I do. But I will say. Socialists, let's not confuse socialist. Let's slow down here a little bit. I'm also a professor at Stanford University. I teach for 30 years there. I teach courses on faculty.

and communism, let's not throw around those terms too flippantly, okay? There's got to be. And I want to build on what you said with Megan. I'm all for people that are passionate about Trump. I'm from Montana. I have a lot of family friends that love President Trump. That's fine. You know, what I can't, what really bothers me is what you're talking about with Megan.

When we blur my opinion that I'm passionate about him for his policies, you knock yourself out. You know, if you think his policies are better than that. Bernie Sanders, go and vote. But don't call Bernie Sanders a fascist. There's no basis for that. Socialists. No, no, no, no, no. This is a man who honeymoved in the Soviet Union.

Bernie Sanders is not for killing 20 million people in the Goulogs. Be careful. Let's wait. Have an empirical basis for your hypothesis. There are definitions for these isms, like socialism, communism, and obviously, not a communist.

Not everyone here knows them. So let's move on. I want to ask about, I just want to go back to this one point. I know this is hard. I'm sorry. But they had the March for Life rally. This is the people who hate abortion.

I've said many times, and the liberal senators get mad at me. You're a little squishy on abortion. Yeah, I'm a little squishy. I'm pro-choice. But I get it. This is not like homosexuality, which has no basis to be against that.

It's bullshit in the Bible. You can't poke in the wrong hole. It's nonsense. It's not. Not like the environment where you just have to close your mind to the science. I get it. It's becoming a life. It's not a life yet, but it's becoming a life.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to it. The doctor told my mother I shouldn't be born. We won't go into that story. Okay. We're glad you're here. Thank you very much. That's exactly the opposite of what the last guest told me. But, okay.

But I just feel it's about that issue. Oh, it is for a lot of us, myself included. That's what makes fascism less important, right? Just admit it, it's fetuses and tax cuts, but mostly fetuses. It has a lot to do with a culture of life in this country. It actually does. If there was a Democrat who was open to the pro-life cause, you would see a good portion of the President's base disappear,

but they don't have that on the national stage running for president. You're right. There is a bit of a purity test. There is. Which is a late development. I mean, there used to be Democrats. You're actually, you're more likely to find a Republican who supports gay marriage and abortion than you are to find a Democrat who supports traditional marriage and life.

But for a lot of people, that's a problem. no coincidence that in the middle of an impeachment proceeding, when maybe Trump feels like there could be some waiverers out there, he shows up. The first U.S. president to show up in the March of life. This is exactly a reiteration of what he is giving.

We're talking about a thrice married, serial cheating, pussy grabbing. Porn star fucking president. Yes. But the evangelicals love him. That is a little weird. You'll have to...

I'm in the camp of evangelicals who says, you still got to criticize the guy, and I get hate mail from evangelicals for saying, you've got to criticize the guy. I get hate mail from evangelicals. All right, man. Totally. Okay, so...

But here's my question. Mike Pence. He's truly one of you. You're right. Why wouldn't he be better? If you left Trump... Okay, if you ditch Trump, you wouldn't have to wear all that

baggage forever because it's not going to look good in the future, and you'd have one of your real guys in there. Why don't you want to do that and get Pence in there? I think I'm the only one he does. You do? I would much rather have Mike Pence than the devil's from. And why do you think the others don't? Because they see

Donald Trump, we are at a point of this country where a lot of his supporters just are mad at the other side and he makes him mad. They're star fuckers. He's a star. Have you seen Mike Pence on this stuff? Pence is a day player. And they're afraid. They're also afraid. What you just said,

a lot of Republican friends I know, will not say. All right. Let's talk about the... Let's be honest about. They're afraid of Donald Trump. The Democrats for a minute. I'm afraid of his bait. I should have with my house. Bernie Sanders, having a little trouble with the ladies lately. The week before, he had that dust-up with Elizabeth Warren. We saw it the bait,

and you know, you called me a liar. Okay, this week, Hillary Clinton. This is from a documentary that she taped this a long time ago, but it came out this week. She said Bernie Sanders, he was in Congress for years. He had one senator supporting him. Nobody likes him.

Nobody wants to work with him. He got nothing done. He was a career politician. She's calling him a career politician. Irony knows about it. And she doubled down on those comments a few weeks ago. And my question is, did Hillary Clinton have a personality lobotomy? Like, where?

Did this, like, sharp shooting, straight talking, insulting, rabble-rousy? Who is this? That was her tweet the next day. She said, I thought everyone wanted my authentic, unvarnished views. I mean, she kind of can't win when she's boring Hillary, we hate her, and when she can't win. Trust me, she ran twice. She can't win. She literally can't win.

But, you know, but... But, Bill, I went for Secretary Clinton. I've traveled around the world with her. I've gotten drunk with Hillary Clinton. Wow. Yes. In St. Peter's word. Tell the story.

Talk about it. It's full. And then what happened? That's the real Hillary Clinton. But why is it in public now? Because she blew it, just like you said. She had a strategy that was designed to win the election, and it failed. So now she's like, to hell with it.

I'm going to say what I want to say. That's the real Hillary Clinton. Whether she should have said it now or not. It's a different matter, but that's the real history. Attacking Bernie helps Biden. Now, Bernie. Not necessarily pure Hillary Clinton. Right.

That may not. Look at Tulsi Gabbard. You think she's herself is going to get back in? No, no, no, no. She's not very popular with a lot of people. It's the same thing with Tulsi Gabbard. she attacked Tulsa Gabbard, which gave Gabbard a lifeline in the Democratic primary. You attack Bernie Sanders and you're Hillary Clinton.

You give Bernie Sanders a lifeline. Okay, but, okay, so, yes. I actually think that Bernie has played this fairly well. This has actually helped Bernie Sanders in a lot of ways. He's not... Both with Elizabeth and with Hillary? Not with Elizabeth. I think that that was not handled as well.

Really? I think you saw some consternation in and around that, especially after the debate performance, the polling in Iowa did not... Bernie lost some support on that. Is that right? But with the Hillary comment, it sort of calcified everybody's idea of what Hillary represents,

reminded them of why they don't like her as an establishment politician. And Bernie didn't get into the mud pit and said, you know what? This is about the country. Let's focus on defeating her. Though he did a week before. I want to be nonpartisan here. A week before, he said,

Biden's got a big corruption problem. That's a talking point from Vladimir Putin. That's a talking point from the Republicans. There's no basis of fact for that. Well, he's got to back it up with facts and withdraw. To his credit, to his credit, I withdrew it. Wait a second. I got the article. That's disinformation.

Okay, that's your opinion. Yeah, it is. I want to read because he apologized for, Bernie apologized for this article written by someone on his staff. Yes. I said, well, I would at least read it. I don't know why Bernie apologized. It's not a personal attack. Here are some of the quotes. Independence and people who might stay home will look at Biden and Trump and say they're all dirty. Joe has perfected the art of taking big contributions, then representing the corporate donors at the corporate donors at the course. cost of middle class and working Americans. His career was bankrolled by the credit card industry. He's from Delaware. Kind of true. With Biden, we are basically handing Trump a what aboutism playbook.

Trump doesn't need voters to love him. He just needs to convince people the whole game is ugly. Bill, how many people do you... Hunter Biden with his $50,000 a month job, a business he knew nothing about in there? Yes, that is what they will do. Here's my problem with what that happened there. How many people do you think actually read that article? Well, now a lot more. No, no, very cute. Well, now that you read it, a lot more. Should I keep it a secret?

No, no, no, no. But here, I want to talk about disinformation because I think it's really important. Well, that's not. That's not. That's my point. You left out the headline. You left out the teaser in the tweet

when it said, Biden's got a big problem with corruption. Right. And then he withdrew that, well, big problem. Well, that's what the whole, and then he, you know, outlaws. He's also taking out ads where he's clipping Biden's speeches and suggesting that Biden applauded Paul Ryan. I mean, there is mis-inverning.

It's a big political problem with corruption. You didn't say that. And that's my point about disinformation. It's thrown out. And it's a good campaign strategy, though. He's got a segment himself. And when you say, okay, we can all make these attacks on Donald Trump, but Joe Biden can't, and you need to think about why Joe Biden can't, all these things we've been saying about

Trump corruption, the family. Bernie is actually, I mean, as someone who ran political campaigns for a while, it's a smart, pivot to go after Joe Biden in that direction. Yes. And be clear. We're saying Joe Biden can't because people are not sophisticated enough to make the distinction. There is a huge distinction. Have you seen the average American? Yes. But it's a matter of political strategy,

attacking Joe Biden is not a very winning strategy. I mean, it's just not. And you'll hear that from the Biden campaign. Go after Joe Biden. Have at it. Look how it works for everybody else who goes after him. I mean, the thing about Joe Biden is America does know Joe Biden. Yes. And I must say, here's a New York Times poll. Undecided voters

are 15% they sound like Biden voters the other side of the coin 50% 7% are male 72% white again this is the 15% who apparently haven't made up their mind 82%

they want a candidate who finds common ground 40% are conservative 40% are moderate that's the other side of that story okay I got to bring out Ingrid I'm happy to bring out Ingrid she is the founder of PETA an author of animal kind

remarkable discoveries about animals and revolutionary new ways to show them compassion. Ingrid Newkirk! Thank you so much for being here. I am not one of those people who uses the word hero a lot. They get asked that in interviews a lot. Who are heroes?

I'm like, oh, fuck, why'd you have to ask me that? But it easily rolls off my tongue with you. You are one of my heroes. There was no animal rights to be even speaking of before you came along. And Peter is now... Is this the 40th anniversary? It is. There was Leonardo da Vinci, though. The what?

Leonardo da Vinci preceded me, and he talked about Animal Rights. Is that right? And what happened to him? But just in the time we have first, so we don't lose it, go through some of your greatest hits. Where the world was in 1980 with animals and some of the things, you know, the furs and the testing and the labs. Just give me a small, be immodest and give me your greatest hits over the list. Everybody wanted a fur.

I mean, that's the way I grew up. Right. You tried on your grandmother's fur, and you wanted one. You'd arrived if you got one. And nobody thought that we were anything but mad when we protested the circus. Little kids ran out onto the street. That's what they had.

There was no internet. Experimentation. It was little old ladies in tennis shoes who protested against it, according to the researchers. Now we have 19 scientists on staff. They're in all sorts of disciplines. They teach the EPA and the USDA

how to change to non-animal research, and we're making huge strides. Ringling brothers? Greatest? No, cruel. And Shamu? That poor bastard doesn't have to jump up and down for fish anymore. And movies. I mean, like, they did anything to animals when they got them on camera to, you know,

oh, you want to make them? Mr. Ed looked like he's talking, you know, hit him with this cattle prod or, you know. Yeah, and baby chimpanzees. Yes. That was the big thing. And no one even knew they were babies. Because you can't control a full-grown chimpanzee. So they would take the babies away from their mother. And they would use pool cues and electric shock collars. It's all gone now because we push, push, push. And people laughed in the beginning. Oh, I know. And for those who still don't have a, a soft.

soft hard for animals. You know, one of your great themes over the years was we're connected. You know, I always think of that when they catch a serial killer because they almost always find out, well, he started torturing animals first. And we see it, Australia, this horrible animal genocide that happened because of the fires. And the coronavirus started because people are eating things they shouldn't be eating and exotic pets and stuff like that. We're all connected. connected, right? Oh, absolutely. I mean, our big push is against speciesism. You were talking about isms earlier on. Speciesism is another one to throw into the pot. It kind of is. Which is against human supremacism. We sometimes think we're gods. We're not gods and animals aren't trash. We should all be in this together. And really consideration, respect, understanding, nonviolence. Surely that's something that everybody can embrace. Doesn't matter what you look like.

And what's the biggest challenge left? I mean, you have a lot of victories, but you have a lot of work to do. I mean, I know you're always all over the world. You're not just the founder. You're still the person who's out there. I live in C-20s. It's going to say shoe leather, but certainly not leather. Not leather.

And these are not leather. I think the biggest problem is that is... Factory farming? Well, factory farming is huge. Slaughter houses, the transport. to slaughterhouses are terrible. But really, things are changing so much. You know, when we first used the V word vegan,

that people were up in arms about it, they thought that's the stupidest thing we've ever heard. Now you basically can't walk out onto the street without seeing something that says vegan. You go to the supermarket. We used to mix soy powder with water, and that's what we had to make a non-dairy milk. now you go to the supermarket and you spend 10 minutes thinking

should I have the oat milk, the almond milk, you know, what should I do? And your book was fascinating because it's a lot about things I didn't realize, I guess a lot of what I've learned in recent years from animals is watching videos on Facebook and YouTube. They like each other more than I thought they did. And that was sort of reinforced by your book, even the ones from different species. and they have, you know, empathy that we didn't used to think they had.

And they grieve and they care about each other. Tell me a little bit about that and where you have come with that. Well, Valentine's Day is coming up, and their love for each other and for us is extraordinary. You mentioned YouTube videos. I wouldn't fault them at all because they've taught a lot of people how wonderful animals are. In the book, I try to connect all these dots and show people. people that it's not a human characteristic to fall in love, to flirt, to kiss. They're all these animals in the world who do the same thing. They love each other and they love

us. But pigeons, for example, are so derided, people can't stand them. But the male and the female pigeon both make milk in their crop and they both take turns looking after their baby. They're admirable parents and they could teach human beings a lot. You must have seen a big change generation-wise. I mean, you started with the baby boomers, and then you moved through Generation X, and now we're on to the millennials and Gen Z. I imagine, like with many social movements,

there are a lot hipper than the generations that came before them. I mean, the kids, they don't even like pubic hair, let alone fur. And they don't... True. And they're switching from... cow leather to pineapple and apple and grape leather

and they're switching, they won't wear wool. You know, we've shown in the sheep shearing sheds, tried to say that quickly. The shearers actually smashing the sheep in the face with the metal shearing objects, standing on

their necks, twisting their necks until they actually die sometimes. There's just so much violence and the kids don't like it. The kids are growing up saying, You know, you, our parents, what were you thinking of? And I believe that as the generations go on, that they are going to look back at us and say, did you really wear animals?

Did you really take their lives for such frivolous things? Did you really not move quickly to get away from force-feeding rabbits and putting things in dog's eyes and so on in the lab? What was wrong with you? No, it is one of those things we will look back on. Yeah. And there are now, what, six and a half? million Peter members?

There are indeed. Well, if you want to help, the way to do it is to join, because what gives you power, besides your amazing force of natureness, is those numbers. When you go to a corporation, I mean, you've made so many corporations change their

policy, because you can say, I have this army behind me. They're not going to buy your product. That's the only thing that moves the dial in America, right? The power of the purse. The power of the purse. So that's how you do it. And I just got to say, I remember reading, you saying once that, you know, social movements, they start with ridicule. Then they move to the discussion phase.

And then they move to acceptance. You are singularly responsible for putting this. No, our members are, you are, everybody who pushes this message. You moved it from ridicule to discussion and to halfway to acceptance. And I know you're going to finish the job. Thank you so much for doing what you do. Good luck with the book. Ingrid Newkirk, everybody.

All right, time for new rules. All right, new rules. Since the Trumps keep denying they know Lev Parnas, but they've never taken a photograph without love Parnas. Someone has to ask them, you can see him, right?

Look down. He's the one between you. The one whose face shows human feelings. Think Mr. Mewkus in a $79 suit. New Rule, high-wasted jeans must be stopped. They keep advancing, taking over everything. I know you kids think it's hip, but ask your parents, we face down this threat in the 90s after denim almost eight, Justin, and Brittany.

New Rule, CVS must allow one week between putting their Christmas shit away and bringing their Valentine's Day shit out. We can't think about love right after Christmas. We just spent a week with our family. New Rule, stop hiring. kids and dogs to run in front of cars to show off how great the brakes are in your car commercials.

How many takes do they do with these? All right, Tommy, we're going to do it again and we're going to keep doing it until you stop flinching. The man who was arrested for having drunken sex with both a wooden fence and a minibus in one day must admit that alcohol

wasn't the only thing in his system. I've been drunk many times. Never have I had the urge to go into Home Depot and fuck Isles 4 through 10. And finally, new rule, Donald Trump must be inducted into the Friars Club. Because he's a comedian. I say that not as a cheap insult, but because he works like a comedian. I do stand-up dates.

He does rallies. I feed off the crowd. He feeds off the crowd. When I find a bit, a hunk, a chunk that the audience really digs, I keep doing it. And so does this junk. Since last April, one of Trump's go-to killer bits involves me, although I'm only referred to by a variety of colorful names like crazy maniac, wacko comedian, low-life dummy.

And yet, he often refers to this program as a big show. They have this wacky guy on television, and he was doing an interview. Big show. One of these crazy maniacs on a show, big show. Tonight, out of respect for the president, am I officially changing our name from real time with Bill Maher to Big Show with Crazy Maniac.

And what is it that Crazy Maniac has been saying that put such a bug up Trump's ass? I'll let him tell you. I mean, you have one guy on television. I'm telling you, he's not leaving. There's no way we're ever going to get him out of office. He's not leaving, you know that. And then he's staying longer.

I'm telling you, he's not leaving. He'll never leave. He's going to stay. That's it. He tells the story about how I keep saying that if he loses the election in November, he's not going to leave. And I'll tell you why I keep saying that. Because if Trump loses the election in November, he's not going to leave. Now, maybe I will be shown to be a crazy maniac. But I'm not alone in this anymore. Last year, Michael Cohen agreed.

Given my experience working for Mr. Trump, I fear that if he loses the election in 2020, 2020, that there will never be a peaceful transition of power. See? Do me a favor. Try and picture Donald Trump losing an election graciously. Go ahead. I'll wait. Try to imagine him on election night, saying, it was an honor to serve, but the people have spoken and I respect the results.

I've called President-elect Klobuchar to tell her I'm... To tell her, I'm rooting for her to succeed. It's inconceivable. because above all, Donald Trump wants you to know one thing about him. He doesn't lose, period. Other than two marriages, three casinos, an airline,

a football league, four magazines, a vodka brand, a university, and a charity. Donald Trump never loses anything. It never loses and never wrong. So why would the White House be different? This is a guy who farts and blames it on the dog, and he doesn't have a dog. They once asked Trump

the difference between him and Richard Nixon. I don't leave. It's a big difference. I don't leave. Here he is last week. Last week. What's on his desk? One thing. A map of the 2016 election. He still hasn't gotten over the election. He won. He's a sore winner. So imagine when he actually loses. Here's what he said in 2016 when he thought he was going to lose. This whole election is being rigged. thing is one big

fix. So, the groundwork has been set. If Trump loses, there's zero chance he doesn't say it's a conspiracy by the deep state trying to take another rightful election from you people, my people. Yes, let's talk

about his people, the ones who would rather burn the place to the ground than hand the country over to some pinko who's trying to give them health care. Because his people have a very different idea about how power is transferred in a democracy. He's not going to be removed.

My 357 Magnum is comfortable with that. Yeah, the truck nut demographic is not going to take it well. And Trump is counting on that. He once said, I have the support of the police, the military, the bikers. I have the tough people.

But they don't play a tough until they, they, meaning the Democrats, go to a certain point. and then it would be very, very bad. Go to a certain point. And what could that point be where we need to involve the bikers and the other tough people

like maybe you losing an election? Is that when we've pushed it too far? So my question to all Democratic candidates is, what's the plan? If you win and the next day he claims he's voiding the election because of irregularities he's hearing about what do you do?

What do you do when the crowd that was in Virginia this week 22,000 strong marches on Washington? This is a scary moment and when I've asked Democrats what do we do if he doesn't go? Their answer is always

some variation of we have to win big. Win big, not just win. Vote him out of office by 25 percentage points. It's more than squeaking out a narrow victory. We have to defeat him decisively. We would need to land a land. landslide. Okay, first of all, no! No! We don't have to win by a landslide.

Jesus. Fucking Democrats. I am so sick of Democrats volunteering to play by two different sets of rules. That's the new paradigm? Republicans can win by one vote, but we're not legitimate unless it's a landslide. Fuck. And two, do you really think it would matter if it was? that they would suddenly get rational about math and facts? He believed Hillary ran a pedophile ring out of a pizza parlor. Do you think that the same Senate that refuses to even hear witnesses during an impeachment trial is going to stop Trump when he calls the next election rigged?

Who's going to stand up to him? The Attorney General who auditioned for the job? The Senate Majority Leader who killed every bill that could keep the Russians from interfering? The Supreme Court Justice, Is he appointed? Who? Oh, that's right.

Susan Collins. She always comes through. Okay, thank you very much. That's our show. Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10. Or watch them anytime on HBO On Demand. For more information, log on to HBO.com.