Ep. #558: Annabelle Gurwitch, Scott Galloway, Larry Wilmore
00:00Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late-night series, Real Time with Bill Maugh.We're coming near the end of the terrible corona period.I feel it. I feel it. Thank you. Yes. I could see. I always...I always say I know why you're happy, but I feel the actual happiness to that. I do.Because, yeah, I know, because, well, President Biden made a speech last night. Did you watch your speech?He said by May 1st, vaccines everybody.And he says July 4th, we look like we'll be back, hopefully, to normalcy.Wow, that's pretty, yes.
01:15I mean, it's been a while.And also looks like the schools will begin reopening.I know that beats a lot to a lot of people.Yeah.Teachers around the country are already practicing crying in their car in the morning.So, but.And also,So they passed the big relief bill.
01:38Stimulus checks.This guy needs it tomorrow.They're going out.Like, some of the checks are going out.It's like reparations are being stuck with your family.That's what I feel.All the Republicans, every single one of them,voted against it.
01:57The House and the Senate, all every one of them.And, of course, now that there's benefits,they're already taking credit for the benefits that are coming.They're like that guy.in the office, if you get your birthday,and then somebody gives you a gift,and he goes, that's from all of us.Also, this week, we finally got some clarity
02:22on the most pressing issue of our time.Did Megan make Kate cry?Or did Kate make Megan cry?Tell me now, so I know who we're not talking to at lunch.I never understood this fixation with the royal family,but boy, this week, you're all talking about it.I mean, you can't avoid it.Oprah did a big interview with Harry and Megan
02:48on CBS, which makes sense,because when I turned it on,boy, did I CBS.You can hate the racism,but not love them for everything else.You know, I mean, Megan did claimthat before dating Harry, she never Googled him,and she said she didn't know much about the royal family.
03:15Yeah, on the first three dates,she thought it was Ed Sheeran.That's how much she didn't.Come on.Let's not lie.You know, come on, Megan.You filmed your television show for years in Toronto.Every time you bought a machino,
03:31you use coins with your mother-in-law's face on it.I think...But, of course, the big bombshell...Not that it's not a big bomb shell.That there was horrible racism.It is terrible in the royal family.And I'm sure it was very painful.And members of the royal...
03:53Our hierarchy, she said, were actually asking her,you know, when she was pregnant,how dark the baby's skin would be.And the queen said, problematic.She said, this is why we...always discouraged sex outside the family.That, that, I'm...So, who else is on...
04:17Who else is on the shit list this week?Oh, Biden's dog.Major, yeah, a major fuck-up.He's back in Delaware.He's like when Melania left.She spent the first six months in New York.is a common thing now.But Biden's dog bit somebody,
04:39and the Secret Service says this is the first biting incidentthey can remember, although they did oncehave to pull Lindsey Graham off Trump's leg.No, I say it with love.But I'm so glad you're in a good mood.This is our coronavirus.It was almost exactly a year ago that we did our last show here,and you all remember what happened then.
05:03And so we have a lot of interesting stats nowabout what happened during the last year.People's weight is up.drinking more, mental health issues, and less sex.A condition previously known as marriage.That's...No, I kid. Oh, I joke about that.Also, this, I thought...
05:23I thought that this was interesting also.Men have developed an inflated senseof how often stepmoms have sex with their step-sons.I think porn hub fans know what that means.But it is amazing when you're thinking about it.In just 12 months, COVID went around.the world touching everyone, like Andrew Cuomo.Oh, he's...
05:48He's in big trouble.He's in big trouble.Last week, it's one of those stories.Every week, the numbers go up.Now it's six women, and it's starting to look likethe only way we're going to be able to stop himis herd immunity.The latest is that apparently
06:11he called an aide to help.This is his way.of, you know, making out with the ladies,called an aide to helpcome into his office privately to help with his cell phone.This is the second accuser who saysthat that was, you know, help with my cell phonewas the ruse, because nothing makes women hotter
06:29than an older guy who can't figure out his phone.Stop it, governor.Governor, stop it.I'm so wet, you're going to have to put me in rice.All right, we got a great show.Larry Wilmore and Scott Galloway are here.First up, she is a New York Times bestselling authorwhose latest book is Your Leaving When, Adventures in Downward Mobility.
06:55He also hosts a new podcast called Tiny Victories,my friend Annabel Gerwitch.There she is.You look fantastic.Thank you.You look like the day we met on the audition for Pizza Man.And yes, we are both like,You're one of the last boomers, right?
07:20That's your generation.I really relate to being a, they call us like cusp people.We're on the cusp between Gen X and boomers.Right.Boomers have a really different experience.Some people born in the same year as me.Do you remember Bonanza?Barely, Bill, that's the difference.
07:38That's a big difference.Okay, you got me there.It was a great show.That's the cutoff.That's the cutoff.But I feel like, you know, people are outraged.you're obviously making a point of being younger.But around our age, I mean, you find out at a certain point that all the sadness and badness in life, not all, I mean, I had shitty times when I was young, that's true.
08:01But a lot of it, the real bad stuff, is kind of backloaded toward getting older.Yes.You know, you don't look better.You know, people have less used for you.This is a country that is shitty to older people.Look, in my book, I call us the never-retirement generation.We are never retiring.No one I know thinks they're going to retire.
08:25We also are not allowed to get tired because we are all working several jobs.We're all in the gig economy.Right.Yes, it's right.It's one thing to be in your 20s.I mean, we all had the shitty apartment.Right.You know, with the roaches when you woke up on your face and eating blimpies.
08:48But when you're in your 20s.You don't give a shit.And that shit doesn't hurt you.You can eat blimpies every day like I did.But when you're older, you want comfort.That's the key thing.And this is what your book is about.That's what downward mobility is it.
09:02We really fuck the older people.And not in a good way.Not in a way that's enjoyable for everyone.No.There's not a, you know what?There's no consent.And there's no consent in that fucking that we're getting.That's right.
09:17No.I mean, you know, this book was written at a time when there were many destabilizing events in my life, right?And there are events that have happened to everyone.Divorce.You got divorced.The parents died.Well, I was caretaking for my parents first, and that destabilizes people's economy, and that primarily affects women who are the caretakers.Right.
09:38Right.So then, also, the biggest destabilizer of all, besides the fact that I'm now a freelancer.And, you know, I've always said, oh, my God.you know, if I don't die of a worse disease, you know, it'd just be like death by a thousand invoices.It's so hard to be a freelancer without benefits.That's the issue.And that was the breaking point for me was health care.And this gig economy, people doing things, I mean, I read in the book, it's hysterical.
10:08I see so many movie scenes in this book.But, you know, you became a landlady.I did.You became someone who took in homeless people.I, yes.Or people experiencing homelessness.People experiencing, and there is, yeah, Bill.So, first of all, let, let, get, I apologize and resign.
10:29Yeah.Come back, I'm back.Let me just tell you this.So, you know, this, this thing, I decided that the best way for me to stop hemorrhaging funds,and the real destabilizer was losing my union health insurance and going out into the free market.Right.You know, and at the same time, I decided.that happened to me, this time last year, March 2020, 5.4 million Americans lost their employer-sponsored
10:54health insurance. Oh, sure, of course. Hence, downward mobility, right? So I became a landlady,started taking in people to help my rent. And this helped with your, but the homeless people you tookand they weren't helping with rent. Well, that's not exactly true. So what happened was I lost a tenant at thelast minute, right? And I heard about a program, which is a rapid rehousing.program, which is actually going on in 11 cities around the country now, where you take in peopleexperiencing homelessness, younger people, and you get a stipend, a small stipend. I mean, no one'sgetting rich doing this. You're not getting to the top 1% by doing this. Just, you know, every bithelps. You know, I thought it would be better than nothing. And, you know, when I first heard that
11:41phrase, I just want to say unhoused or experiencing homelessness, I thought, okay, is thisthe new PC thing.But really, when you look at who is slipping in and out of homelessness in America,it really accurately describes us.We're talking about teachers, living in their cars.We're talking about young people, one out of four community college students,have housing instability in the whole country.So this is a condition.
12:13Yeah, and you became kind of close to these people.at first it seemed likeobviously it was going to murder me.Right.I was worried they were going to murder me in my sleep.But that's because I didn't understandwho was housing insecure.So, you know, they're coming to my house
12:31and I want to be nice and friendly,but I'm hiding my jewelry,my mother's silver in the closet.And they get to my houseand they just start doing very suspicious things.They start cooking salads.They start darning socks.they're reading, they're calling their mothers.
12:49And honestly, Bill, that blew my mindbecause I didn't imagine.I had, you know...In other words, they were normal people.They were normal people.They had people...Yes.And in fact,
13:04I was so convinced that they were sketchy, you know,that I, at some point I thought,okay, I'm going to put their namesinto a background search.and I never had any experience doing that,so I put my name in two.And it turned out, I was the person who was flagged.I was the sketchy person in the house.
13:24That's right, yes.Yeah.But why? Why are you sketching?Well, because I had unpaid parking bills.Right.Because I was, and this is what happenswhen you're worried about money.You start delaying paying your bills.
13:36I wasn't paying attention.So I had more red flags than they did.And, you know, the thing is,they'd come to Los Angeles to be, you know, artists, right?and I mean in an entertainment business.I have a problem with that right there.I never encouraged that.Not that I have a problem with people being artists.
13:53I have a problem with everyone in America needing to be an artist.Well, yes.And this is why so many people.Oh, look.Oh, my God.Listen, I completely agree.It's like, that may be why you're homeless.No, and yet.
14:07And yet, okay.Because, you know, I mean.We're going to impact this, though, because the thing is,is that, you know, I thought, okay, first of all,It's a terrible idea to move to Los Angeles to work.I always tell you, don't do it, right?So as I got to know them, I realized they had saved up money to move here,almost the same amount as I had saved up, right?
14:27Right.They had done that working in factories.They had worked menial labor jobs.Me?I moved here.I cashed in stocks I got from my bat mitzvah.I mean, who is more hardworking, you know?And then when you look at the difference between what they were facing,
14:44and what I was facing, right?I got an apartment for $750 when I moved here.The same apartment in the same zip code is $2,400 now.Now, I got a job in a restaurant, right?What year did you move here?In 1989.See, I moved here in 83, and mine was $3.50.Wow.
15:04In Boys Town, and it was heaven.I moved from New York where I had a bus outside my window every day,and now I had a fucking bird.I arrived in.paradise. It's all relative.It is.Well, but see,now even that's a difference,
15:19that's an age difference for us. But so, look,now the thing is, if wageshad kept pace with housing costs, that wouldbe different. But so I got a jobin a restaurant when I moved out here.Now, you can't getthose jobs now. That jobwas, even though it's not terribly
15:36high paid, you had shifts, you had somethingdependable, you can't counton the money that you're making if you'reworking for a food delivery app.But the bigger issue is you can't expand your social network.Right.If you're like delivering sandwiches from the back of your Kia.Now, you're not meeting people who will help you later in your career, you know?
15:57And that's what you do when you're working, when we were starting out.All right.So your thing is called, in 30 seconds, give me, I love this idea you have for small victories.Because I do feel that way.I mean, maybe it is an age thing like, oh, I found a real.roach in my pocket that I didn't know was there. I'm not even going to smoke it because I goteven better stuff at home. But just the fact that I found it, that's what I think of when Ithink of small. And that's your thing, right? That's the thing. It's Tiny Victories. It's a podcast.
16:29I started it after my cat got a podcast. I'm like, well, I guess I have to do. Right.So, you know, I launched this during COVID. And what I felt like was so many big pleasureshad been stripped away from everyone.We just had small mercies.Right.So I thought, okay, well, I'll do a showwhere we celebrate small mercies.And the whole thing is I wanted to do a podcast
16:55that was the same length as my attention span.So it's a 15-minute-long weekly podcast.All right.You're always a pleasure.I'm so glad I know you.Keep fighting the good fight.Annabel Gerwit, ladies and gentlemen.That book is funny.
17:11All right.Let's meet our panel.Hey, all right, here they are.He's co-creator of HBO's Insecureand executive producerin the Netflix docu-series,amend the Fight for America.Larry Wilmore, my pal is over here.
17:31Good to see you, Bill.Good to see you.Maybe the Mets this year again.I know.Yeah, all right, I'll have to pay this time.He's a professor of marketingat NYU Stern School of Businessand author of post-Corona
17:45from crisis to opportunities,Scott Galloway.How are you, Scott?All right.So, it is thecoronavirus.It was a year ago,minus two days
17:59where we did our last show here,and boy, that ended quick.Biden said, I mean, the whole thing,I mean, I thought I was going to come backnext week. We had a panel book.May 1st, everybody got a shot.July 4th, Biden says,Independence Day.
18:14You get it? We're going to be kind of independentSo I've been reading, you know, it's the year,everybody's writing recaps of this kind of stuff.The stat I have to start with that I thought was most amazing.Jeff Bezos,Yep.Lost $38 million in his divorce, $38 billion in his divorce,and he made it all back in a month.
18:35He made $35 billion in one month.What does this tell us about America, gentlemen?Well, it's worse than that.We've had one individual.add the GDP of Hungary to his net worthsince the first virus and that'sElon Musk, just in time for him to pieceout and move to Texas so he doesn't have to pay
18:55taxes. We've seen billionairesgo from $1.9 trillion in wealthof $4 trillion. The dirty secret of thispandemic is that the top10%, much less the top 1%,are living their best lives.And thatsome people, I mean, we see a lot of the,
19:10we actually see places that went out of businesslike myself. Some of my favorite restaurants.I drive by and I want to cross.because they've been there for a lot.AGO's gone.It was there forever.But the people who did,if you're in the, sit on your ass, look at a screen business.
19:26Amazon, Apple, Google, Facebook, right?They made, they're now worth 21% of the whole economy.We talk about the S&P 500.It's the S&P 7.There's now seven companies that have 51% of the market cap.Amazon since March has added more market capitalizationthan all of European.in retail. We have
19:48effectively four companies that are sodominant. There's more, we've been overrun.There's more lobbyists, full-time lobbyists in Washingtonworking for Amazon than there are U.S. senators. There's more peopleworking in PR and comms at Facebook, manicuringin Mark and Cheryl's image than there arejournalists at the Washington Post.We are so beyond any sense
20:07of balance in our economy. The ecosystem's out of control.We absolutely need to break these companies up.Yeah, it's almost like we'retalking about. There you go.Don't want to step on that, Bill.I'm old school, Bill. I'm not stepping on a point.It's almost like the way that you said that, Bill, it sounded nefarious, almost like they planned it or something, you know.Not that they did, of course, but...
20:30But they took advantage of it.But they took advantage of it.There's almost like an inevitability of this kind of progress, let's call it, you know,where how all that money just starts flowing in these same directions, you know, no matter what happens to the economy.It all keeps flowing that way.But can I ask this one question?When I read this about the Amazon, Apple, Google, Facebook, 21%.I mean, it was written, I forget where I read it, maybe you.
20:56It was written like, oh, my God, 21% in the economy, four companies.And I was like, is that so bad?I would have thought it was 80, quite frankly, if I hadn't read that.I mean, the biggest four companies who really, I mean, this is what's propping up America as the rest of this goes to shit.is that such a big thing that thosethe four biggest companies are one-fifth of the economy?Depends the world we want to live. I'm not that alarmed at that.Do we want one company deciding 93% of the time when we type in
21:26overthrow government whether you getinstructions on how to build a dirty bomb or voter registration?Should one company control those decisions 93% of the time?Should one person control the algorithms that decide the contentthat the Southern Hemisphere plus India receive?Should one company effectivelycontrol 97% of all increase in value of all retailthe third largest employer in America. I know you think
21:50healthcare is next, right? Don't you think that Walmartand is it Amazon who are going to be battling toof course why wouldn't they want that? They own everything elsewhere's all the money going sick people?100%. That's what America does best make sick people.Well look the fastest, the largest business in the world is US health careit's 17% of GDP, its prices keep going up, its MPS keepsgoing down, that spells, here comes Amazon. But not only is it bad or morally corrupt for these
22:19companies that have so much power, it's dangerous. The equivalent of the NASDAQ and Israel is down,not up. They're vaccinating at seven times the rate. When the most powerful, wealthiest people in theworld are living their best lives, we don't show this virus the full-throated capitalist responsewe are capable of. If Amazon stock, if Amazon stock could decline 70 percent,instead of risen 70% in the last 10 months.When a van with a smile shows up in my driveway tomorrow morning,someone would have jumped out in a lab coat and vaccinated us.We are living our best lives.
22:57This virus has not seen what the U.S. is capable ofbecause stop, stop, it hurts so good if you're the shareholder class.But the other point is, though...Every time you want to talk, this guy's getting applause.As usual.I said everything I wanted to sayis it's a plow to break.You guys missed it.
23:17No, but the other side of it isthey're providing a service that people like.Exactly.You know, I mean, during the pandemic,you wanted things delivered to you, you know?So that's what I mean.The confluence of them being there at exactly the right timewith exactly the right service.
23:32Yeah.It was very convenient.And so I know so many people that have signed up for Amazon Primeover the last five years because, you know,all of the things that they say come with it.And Amazon is,It is amazing the type of company that Amazon isand how they have positioned themselves
23:49to literally Pac-Man every type of industry that is out there.It really is...I don't think we've seen anything like that type of company.No. Remember, he cornered the diaper market?Yeah.He lost like $100 million just...But I don't care. I want diapers, too.Right.
24:06Something wrong with that guy.Anyway, but it's not his bank account.People like it.But you said living our best lives...I mean, you have kids, right?Yes, absolutely.They're older now.Older like...
24:18They're like 50.No, no, they're not.No, but they're probably on screens more than we are.Oh, completely.Well, that's their lives.Well, that's what I worry about.Like, as all these screen companies start doing better,I mean, we know it's an addiction already,
24:32especially for the younger generation.But living your best life virtually seems to bewhat they care more about than reality.And I feel like that's something the pandemic made worse.So it's more important to look good as you're living on the Instagram picturethan you actually are.Oh, I got one.Hey.
24:54I mean, there's always a trade-off, you know.Some people whose lives maybe they feel maybe their life is kind of shitty,they can represent a little better for themselves.You know, sometimes people can reach out to peopleand have more opportunities for connections with people,whereas maybe in their real life they wouldn't have those connectionslike the way Annabelle was sayingthe type of job they have may not allow them to network
25:19the way that the digital life can allow them to networkso there's pluses and minus with that type of thingokay I think it's mostly I'm not I'm not byis that your kid talking here I don't know it's truethat's just the way that the world is evolving yeah look we're justcoming to the realization that Facebook is not going to take care of uswhen we're older concerned with the condition of our soulteen suicide is skyrocketing because of concierge bulldozer
25:42are parenting where we've created this princessand the peace syndrome with our youth.But we've also addicted them.We've also addicted to them to social media.There's all this talk about movements amongyoung people, whether it's GameStop or other righteousmovements. Right, because they won't take away the phone.But you want a movement? Right. The parents. Right.
25:57You want a movement? Acknowledge that the food industrialcomplex wants to make you fatand vulnerable to viruses.If you want a movement, realize that everysocial media platform is trying to divide you and enrage you.You want a movement?Instagram is trying to make you feel worse about yourself.You want a movement, then rebel against addiction, divisiveness, and a lack of self-esteem.
26:19And it means going after these companies and holding them accountable for the damage they are doing to the Commonwealth and to our kids.You have kids, your world of work, your world of friends, your rule of kids.Something comes off the tracks with one of your kids.Your whole world shrinks down to those kids.And a lot of times in COVID, it's because the brain has been rewired because of these goddamn devices.This guy's a walking a blog break.Tell us how you really feel.But honestly, you're a professor, right?
26:51No, but honestly, you can go to any era.Rock and roll was the devil for white kidswho were hearing black music.Television was killing us off socially.Every era, there's something, you know.I mean, Zoom.But those things really didn't.TV wasn't addictive like that.
27:09I didn't like have to watch McHale's Navyand it was on once a week.It was on once a week.I'm going to go back to your thingbecause you started with crony capitalism.I mean, you didn't say those words,but that's really what we're talking about.100%.
27:24Okay.100%.Don't yell at me.You'll get your applause break in a minute.I feel a nice barfied breaking out here.I'm not defending it.Yes.But I would defend capitalism.
27:37I feel like there's a flirtation now.on the left because people don't read history.They don't know what happened before.They just live by slogans.And they don't understandcommunism. We tried it.It wasn't that long ago.Just too long ago, if you have that idea
27:55in your head, well, I wasn't alive for it,so I shouldn't know about it.Well, maybe you should.Because we did try it.And I would say communism is worse than crony capitalism.Even crony capitalism better than communism.Would you agree with that?Professor?
28:11Capitalism is hands down the best system of its kind.When young people are seeing today, it's not capitalism.We have rugged individualism on the way up,and then we have, we're all in this together on the way down,and we have socialism.Capitalism on the way up,where five CEOs of airline companies make $150 million,use all their excess cash flow to buy back stock
28:29so they can artificially inflate their own compensation,and then shit gets real, and a pandemic comes,and they don't have any money,and all of a sudden we're in this together.When you have capitalism on the way up and you have socialism on the way down, I'm not done yet.And then you have socialism on the way down.That's not capitalism or socialism.It is cronyism.
28:49It is the worst of all worlds.Capitalism, capitalism is full-body contact violence at a corporate level so we can create prosperity and progress that rests on a bed of empathy.We have flipped the script here.We need to be more loving and empathetic with people and more harsh on companies.capitalism. We are protecting.We should be protecting people, not companies.Fucking Delta, burn baby, burn.Yeah. Oh, my God.
29:17Bill, you've got a ring here and hear this thing.I would like to make a prediction right now.Before this show is over, sir, you will be the governor of New York State, I believe, because...I second that prediction, sir.They're looking for one and...We know you got the speech ready.Let's stop.Bill, I'll just say, okay.
29:41My opinion on those things is sometimes we make too much out of definitions, you know,and these things can be debated philosophically and that sort of thing.But in the practical, like, for instance, capitalism isn't even in our Constitution.That word isn't in the Constitution.You know, but our country, since I would say Teddy Roosevelt,we've expanded what capitalism and the government's role in trade is, you know.and during the New Deal, we redefined the government's role with the person,you know, with Social Security.
30:12The government can intervene directly with people, you know.And since then, we've never had a pure form of capitalism for a good 150 years.Okay.It's always been expanding and redefining and stuff.And now, with the payments, with the stimulus payments,once again, we're expanding the role of governmentand how people feel about that role of the governmentdirectly in people's lives.
30:34Okay.But again, just to...I got my own applause.See that, Bill?I got my own applause.Thank you, everybody.Yeah, there you go.I wish I was right next to you.
30:47Okay, but if I could just reset from where I was starting with,the communism part, this flirtation and people not really...Yes, gentlemen, I agree with everything that was said to great applause.Our capitalism has super big problems.Yeah.But communism, we do.did have this experiment for 70 years.It's not just bad.
31:08It's super bad.Nobody killed more people than communist leaders.You know, people wear t-shirts with Castro and Che Guevara.Not good guys.Paul Pot, not a good guy.Stalin.They killed millions and millions of people,and even the people who lived were living horrible lives.
31:27Because it doesn't work.Because it's against human nature.You have to harnessWhat is, you have to graft institutions on what is real about people.And what is real about people?Selfishness.Right.Absolutely.
31:43We're all selfish.That's not something to us apologize for.When we have excesses, yes, of course.Right.But to think we can make the river flow in the opposite direction, we tried it.It didn't work.Let's reform capitalism and not go to Mars, make Earth work.My other companion piece to that.
32:02Gordon Gecko said greed is good.And then Gordon Gecko.I just, I want to talk about this.Just for one second, this thing bothered me a lot.There was an ad in, or is it tweet, I guess both.Burger King was trying to be funny in an ad.And I think they were funny.They were talking about a program they have to increase the number of women's chefs.
32:23There aren't a comparative number of women chefs in the world.Maybe they should get more opportunities.Maybe there's a reason why they don't, and we should address that.That's what they were trying to say.Right.So they had an ad.women belong in the kitchen.Oh, wow, I didn't see it.
32:41And, of course, you know, the shit hit the fan,their usual suspects.And I just want to say, this is what's wrong with us.It's like, if you don't get the joke here,then you're stupid.You don't get subtlety, you don't get humor,you don't get perspective.And if you do, and you're pretending that you don't,
33:03just so you can have something to be pissed off at,then you're both ways you're gross.Yeah.Bill, I'm going to have to call a foul in that play.I don't think this is a joke that's as good as you're saying that it is.No, it's an ad.It's not a monologue joke.My colleague.
33:20No, no, no, I know what you mean, but, I mean, I hadn't seen that.If I just saw that, I'm like, what the fuck is Burger King doing?But then you would read it.That's the point.It got your attention.That's what advertising is.My colleague at NYU, I think that's the right take on that.and that gestures should be taken with the intent that they're given.
33:39And this was meant to highlight sexism.Exactly.Unfortunately, what we have, in my industry, is guilty of this,we've created an industrial shaming culturewhere there's money in dunking on peopleand saying, making a caricature of commentsand then using that to extract to an ugly placeso you can get virtue points.
33:57Because the moment you're offended on our country,it means you're right.And where we have failed at universitiesis we need to be graduating,not wokesters, but warriors.And that is people who understand.Here, here, Doc.I'm giving you an applause now.
34:15And we need to look at those ads.And we need to look at those ads and say,does that humor work?Why didn't it work?And have a thoughtful conversation and move on.But not this industrial dunking complex.Okay, well, here at RealTam, we thought it did work.We thought it worked so well that we created some other ones
34:33for other companies.in the same style, which are like to see them.These are just, yeah, we're just,look, it gets people attentionand we thought other companies could use, for example,Oscar Meyer could have, uh, nothing says summerlike putting a weiner in your bun.It's provocative, it gets you thinking about it.
34:56Hooters, when you're here, you're looking at tits.Funny because it's true?Grape nuts, we have ways of making you shit.And the army, it's not murder.if the people you kill are foreign.Six flags. Our roller coasters are greatfor women with kids and pregnant ladieswho don't want them.
35:36American Airlines, let's get this strange.You don't like us and we don't like you.That's great.Pfizer, we vaccinated grandpa and made his dick harder.You're welcome. We're sorry.I'm in.I'm in.And, of course, the Republican Party.
36:02No, seriously.A woman's place really is in the kitchen.All right.So I do have breaking news, because we always taped Friday.We used to be exactly live at 7.Now we were a few hours earlier because of the virus.I don't understand exactly why that is, but I go along.I'm just happy to be here.
36:30Breaking news.Breaking news.Friday afternoon. Schumer nowand Gillibrand, the two senators from New York,are asking Andrew Cuomoto resign. We talked about this last week,but it is keep changing. I said itlast week. For me, these cases are always
36:45case by case, but I find all these womencredible, and I just, you know,obviously if he was head of anycorporation, he would begone. His argument seems now tobe, can we just have the investigationfirst? And I think thereis merit to that. It
37:01seems like we are in this old Westmentality of, you know,just, we heard something, let's hanghim. Right. Andcan we just, is that wrong?Putting aside what he did? Can we havethe investigation first? Well,you can, if you want to figure out
37:17what the criminal liability is, but partof this is a political argument, what's the right thingto do? Right. You know, there's alwayslike the moral argument, political argument,legal argument. You know, for legalpurposes, yeah, stick it out as long asyou want, you know, see what happens.Politically, is it the right thing to do?
37:33I'm not so sure.You think Trump being the guy who never backed downchanged this dynamic?People saw that, and it was sort of popular.You do.I think so.Change the dynamic for one party, because...First of, let me acknowledge, we've never, I don't...
37:51I'll say, as a 6-2 white male,I've never had to endure the bullshitthat women have endured at work for a long time.Let me just put that out there.But at the same time, this triggers mebecause women and people of color lost...one of the most powerful advocates, when Chris and Gillibrand decided to disappear Al Frankenso she could have a seven-minute run for president.
38:10And we're in the midst of a pile-on-up.And here's the reality.Voters get to decide in 18 months.The majority of 49% of white people, 63% of non-whites believe he should not resign.We as Democrats need to be the party of women, but we also need to be the party of due process.We need to slow down, let these women be here.heard and let due process and currierand not just pile on.
38:37Well, I thinkI think if we're going tobe the party of women, too,we can't just blame a woman forAl Franken leaving. Al Franken decided to do thathimself. He didn't make him leave.That's not her fault. She asked himto, but he didn't have to.
38:52You know, the supposed things that he did had nothing to dowhile he was in the officeof being a senator. But you know that on the Senatefloor, no Democrat would talkto him. Oh, it's ridiculous.But the thing with that, that was ridiculous.Really America.I know. Al Franken's, his transgressions happened to him, his private life, supposedly, you know, when he was taking pictures and these sorts of things.
39:15You know, he could have stood up and said, look, you know, or whatever, you know, his defense was.I don't think you could have a Senate investigation over those things.Cuomo's a little different.These things happen while he's governing, you know, while he's in office.Those are sexual discrimination issues.Yes.Now, this sounds, one of them today sounds very Paula Jones.like, you know, he saw someone across the room
39:35and called her out the next day and say,hey, you look like someonewould be good to head up my waste management program.You know, or, no, I just meant a government office.Right, right.There was no reason why he would want.But they also say he's surrounded by a lot of 20-something women,which, you know, we should be hiring 20-something women,
39:59but if it's not for the right reasons,Yeah.Governor Northam, another example, like we had recently,a guy who stuck it out in Virginia, if you don't remember.Governor Northam was accused of what he, blackface, right?Right, at a party in the 80s.Apparently there are all these blackface parties in the 80sthat I was never invited too.
40:24I never knew about it.They made sure they had them, you know, in other placeswhere we couldn't see.Well, they made movies.Remember that Soul Man movie?I mean, they literally, you know.Billy Crystal on Saturday Night Live.He used to do Sammy Davis Jr. all the time.
40:39All the time.Yeah.I mean, that's, yes.I mean, I think.Different times.Different times, yes.And also a specific character.Exactly.
40:47But it wasn't like that manny black face, you know, and that type of thing.No, we lost all sense of nuance, as you were saying before.But the point is, Governor Northam, it was sort of a similar situation.You heard so many of the leading Democrats at the time.You could go through it.Right.Clinton, Hillary,They all said Governor Northam should quit.
41:06Yeah, but...Oh, go ahead.The difference was black people said,I ain't mad at you, whatever, you know.Because they said they liked the programs that he was implementingor that he was there to implement,and they wanted to see that process happen.They wanted to see those things happen,
41:21rather than, you know, roll the diceover just a couple of pictures that happened years ago.And I say this all the time,but this is to me the shining example of what white privileges,the ability to be important.There you go.The privilege to be impractical is, I think the wolf people miss that all the time.You have the luxury to be impractical about things, and this is a pattern we see often in, I mean, 16, and then this is March 4th, so this is dated.
41:51But if we give everyone a time machine, they're now talking about Churchill's statue has to be protected, because he said some very racist things.And the reality is the most non-racist thing of the 20th century was turning back Hitler.And we're fond of taking a time machine.Yeah.And taking, taking, taking today's conventions and norms,and thank God, people should be held accountable.But should we put away the time machinebecause we like to travel back and apply today
42:21and forms and conventions to behavior 50 and 100 years ago?And I just wonder if that's fair.At some point, high schools will have JFKand Martin Luther King's names ripped off thembecause at some point their infidelity will be seen as misogyns.And at what point do we decidethat we need to be accountable,people need to be held accountable,
42:40but we need to put away the time machineand learn from the pastas opposed to trying to revisit itand shame people.I just want...I just want...I just want Scott to make surethat he knows he's on the record
42:52for saying he won't use a time machineto kill baby Hitler.That's all I'm saying that...I just want him to know he's on the record for saying.You with me? I'm in. You're with me?No time machine, no killing baby Hitler.Fairhouse.No, I mean, there is, I see Turner Classics now
43:08They are showing movies from the pastthat are problematic, which, by the way, is every single movie.Yes, thank you.If you look, if you're super woke every, I mean, even five years ago,I mean, I watched, especially in the pandemic,I watched a lot of movies probably I've seen before.Thank God I smoked pot, so I didn't remember I saw them.And, I mean, they're just run-of-the-mill kind of movies,
43:30and there are things in it that you would not even...No way.And so Turner Classics, they're going to have somebody come on before the movie to explain to you why you're a bad person for watching it, but we're going to show it.You're a bad person.But why can't people...Look, if Harrison Ford looks a lot younger than he does now, there's something in the movie you won't like.Just go by that.I don't need to...
43:51You don't have to walk me through it.We seem to have lost all sense of subtlety and perspective, no?Yeah, I look.There's a culture.feels like everyone is bifurcatedand then the far left hasdecided that being the opposite of woke,I think we've created no room for
44:10moderates because essentiallythe far right has, in myopinion, embraced racism and bigotryand found that it has mobilized and weaponizeda core base and now they've lost controlof it. Right. And on the far leftand on the far left, wehave decided that the public has
44:26anointed us and said the most important thing you can dois be a self-appointed police force for culturalissues. And at the same time, wehave to find some ground in the middle to join hands and say, look, one out of five householdswith children is food insecure. We got bigger fish to fry than trying to create, you know,trying to dunk on each other. It's just we totally lost the script.Yes. I think, Phil, I'm with you on this one. I don't want films like Gone with the Wind,birth of an asian. I don't want those to disappear. Those to me are receipts. It's like,
44:57anytime somebody says, they didn't act the circumstance, say, no, niggit, turn that on. Turn that on.Okay, watch that.Why are those people acting like that?Because that's how the world was back then.I mean, it was 1939.And then when you watch, I mean, you watch through the ages,like you see, you know, I watched Colombo recently,a lot of the old Columbo.
45:17Oh, no, not Colombo.There's not one leading guest star who's black.But it's the 70s.So black people are in like very supporting roles.Right.Hardly getting it.And then you move into the 90s and you, you know,the first kiss, but the black people then are like the friend.
45:35You know?It's a major role, but not the leader.You know, I mean, and of course people are shit, but they get better.That's my slogan, you know.That's all you can.Sometimes, yes.You don't think things are getting better?Yeah, you said people get better.
45:53Sometimes, some people get better.Some people don't.In general, that the arc moves.Yes, but the arc moves after putting.I believe.Sure, of course.Got to push the arc.Yes, exactly.
46:07I just let the arcs in there.I just want to be clear about that.You know, these things happenbecause of the hard workthat a lot of people put into make them happen.All right, so quickly,I was watching the,
46:17I just have to say,about the royal thing.Oh, yeah.Thank you.In January of last year,right before the pandemic,we did an editorial about itbecause they had just announced
46:30they were stepping back.I said, why don't you two, instead of just stepping back,why don't you just renounce the whole bullshitlockstock and barrel of it?You know, just, what is this royal bullshit to begin with?People calling each other, Your Highness,what could be less woke than that?Where are the woke people on that one?
46:50Your Highness? How gross.And then, like, the next day, show the headline.I have a headline here that just shows you there.See?And then, like, the next day, they did it.And I thought, oh, well, they heard me.No.I see that they're just mad that their family was mean to them.
47:08They don't want to renounce royalty, and they still act kind of regal.Yeah, it is interesting that that did come out that way.And, you know, people were saying, well, did they say that about, you know, the baby and all that,about making sure they didn't want, you know, wanted to know how dark the baby is going to be.And I'm like, 1,000 percent, absolutely.Right.Not only did somebody say it, they were all thinking it.They're the royal family.
47:31It's not Bridgeton, you know.Right.It's not, you know, the tabloid press is getting covered.There's not, you know, Lady Whistledown or whoever that is.Yeah, a white guy's 100-year-old grandparents who travel to hunt stags and range rovers have a racial bias.That's news.Yeah, and every...Also, you know, but I must say for everyone who's like, there's racial bias in the royal family,
47:55there are other royal families in the world.Americans only seem to be interested in the white one.All right.I've got to go to New Rules, everybody.New Rules.Wait, it's so much, I'm going.No, it's okay.All right, new rule, now that Rudy Giuliani's daughter
48:11has written a piece about how she lovesbeing the unicorn and threesomes,and it's made her a better person,Rudy has to call a family meetingwhere he gets in drag, puts his hand down his pants,and drips die down his face while screaminghe will not embarrass the Giuliani family.New Roel, someone must tell me.
48:33me what's up? What lost gold?There's lost Civil War gold, lostWorld War II gold, lost gold of the Incas.Why are people always losing gold?You don't do that with gold.You do that with Acapulco gold.New rule, in today's stressful times,it's more important than ever to focus
48:56on good news, like the heartwarmingstory out of Japan, that118-year-oldKana Tanaka will be a torchbearerin May for this summer'sOlympic Games. What a tribute to thehuman capacity to...Never mind.
49:21New Rule, Americans must celebratethe one-year anniversary of COVIDwith a feast made up of the itemsin your pantry you bought in a panicat the beginning of the lockdown.And then never touched.And each year on March 11,this will become our traditional meal.
49:39Sardines, a bag of black beans,Trader Joe's chili,spaghetti from a company you'd never heard of,and your failed attempt at sourdough bread.New Rule, now that the city of Parishas erected a giant clitoris in front of the Eiffel Towerto honor Women's Day.Don't tell your boyfriend to meet you there.
50:10Because there's a good chance he won't be able to find it.And finally, new rule, you're not going to win the battlefor the 21st century if you are a silly people.And Americans are a silly people.That's the classic phrase from Lawrence of Arabia,when Lawrence tells his Bedou and alliesthat as long as they stay a bunch of squabbling tribes,they will remain a silly people.
50:40Well, we're the silly people now.Do you know who doesn't carethat there's a stereotype of a Chinese manin a Dr. Seuss book, China?All 1.4 billion of themcould give a crouching tiger flying fuckbecause they're not a silly people.If anything, they are as serious as a prison fight.
51:07Look, we all know China does bad stuff.They break promises about Hong Kong autonomy.They put Uyghurs in camps and punished dissent,and we don't want to be that.But it's got to be something between authoritarian governmentthat tells everyone what to doand a representative governmentthat can't do anything at all.
51:31In two generations, China has built 500 entire cities from scratch,moved the majority of their huge populationfrom poverty to the middle classand mostly cornered the market in 5G and pharmaceuticals.Oh, and they bought Africa.Their new Silk Road Initiative is the biggest infrastructure project in history,indebting not just that continent,but large parts of Asia, Europe, and the Middle East
51:58to the people who built their roads, bridges, and ports.If you want to go anywhere in the world these days,you better have a yen for travel.A yen for travel.Oh, stop it.In China alone, they have 40,000 kilometers of high-speed rail.America has none.Our fastest train is the tram that goes around the zoo.
52:26California wanted to build high-speed rail connecting the entire state, but alas, could not.We're $6 billion in the hole just trying to finish the track connecting the vital hubs of Bakersfield and Mercedes.One small step for nobody, one giant leap if you're a raisin.On a national level, we've been having infrastructure week every week since 2009.But we never do anything.half the country is having a never-ending woke competitiondeciding whether Mr. Potato Head has a dick.And the other half believes we have to stop the lizard people
53:14because they're eating babies.We are a silly people.Even when we all agree on something,like getting rid of the penny.No, the inertia, the ass covering,the graft, the lawyers, the cowardice.Nothing ever moves in this impacted colon of a country.We see a problem and we ignore it.
53:34lie about it, fight about it, endlessly litigated,sunset closet, kick it down the road,and then write a bill where a half-ass solutiondoesn't kick in for 10 years.China sees a problem, and they fix it.They build a dam.We debate what to rename it.That's why their airports look like this,
53:59and ours look like this.In San Francisco, it took 10 yearsjust to get two bus lines through environmental review.The big dig,a tunnel in Boston, took 16 years,and don't get me started on my solar hookup.China once put up a 57-story skyscraper in 19 days.They demolished and rebuilt the San Juan Bridge in Beijing in 43 hours.
54:37We binge watch.They binge build.When COVID hit Wuhan, the city built a quarantine centerwith 4,000 rooms in 10 days,and they barely had to use itbecause they quickly arrested the spread of the disease.They were back to throwing raves in swimming pools.Well, we were stuck at home surfing the dark web for Black Market Charmin.
54:58We're not losing to China.We lost.The returns just haven't all come in yet.They made robots the check a kid's temperature and got their asses back in school.Most of our kids are still pretending to take Zoom classes while they watch TikTokand their brain cells slowly commit ritual suicide.As George Bush once said, is our children learning?There is a progressive trend now to sacrifice merit for equity.
55:41Colleges are chucking the SAT and ACT test,and in New York, Mayor de Blasio announced merit would no longer decidewho gets into the schools for advanced learners,but rather a lottery system.You think China's doing that,letting political correctness get in the way of nurturing their best and brightest.You think Chinese colleges are offering coursesin the philosophy of Star Trek,
56:04the sociology of Seinfeld,and surviving the coming zombie apocalypse.Those are real, and so is China,and they are eating our lunch.And believe me, in an hour, they'll be hungry again.All right, that's our show.I want to thank my guest, Larry Wilmore, Scott Galloway,and Annabelle Gourwich.
56:23We'll see you next week.Thank you.Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maherevery Friday night at 10,or watch them anytime on HBO on demand.For more information, log on to HBO.com.Thank you.
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