Ep. #587: Ira Glasser, Fiona Hill, Matt Welch
00:00Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Night series Real Time with Bill Maugh.Thank you.Okay.I'm a happy crowd.Okay.I appreciate it.Thank you very much.Thank you.
00:51Thank you very much.I love you too.And I think I love you too.know why you're happy. I say that every week.This week, I think, becauseyou did not invest in crypto. That wasa very wise thing. Yes.Crypto,
01:09I was hoping for this.It's horrible for the environment, you know, and it's justfucking stupid. And ithas crashed like a rock.They've lost almost a trillion dollars. I mean,people in the Metaverse are jumping offvirtual buildings. It's rough.And you know
01:31who got it? There were millennials.because they thought it was cool.And now they're like, wait, you mean it was a bad ideato put all my savings into an imaginary currencywith a dog on it?But you know what's doing good?The actual economy.You know, where people buy shit and make stuff.
01:56Yeah.Yeah.The economy grew 5.7%.the most since 1984.Of course, we still have problems,inflation, you know, supply.But, you know, workers,they can't get enough workers.
02:11And listen to that.In this country, that's still paranoidabout the virus,they're pressuring workersbecause they don't have enoughto go to work when they're sick.I think I saw it the other dayat the supermarket.
02:23The guy who bagged my groceriesasked me if I could help him get to the car.But, yeah, I know people,you're suffering the inflation, right?I mean, did you see this?Dollar tree?Dollar tree.It's not funny, sir.
02:46People need dollar tree.Dollar tree is raising the priceof all their stuffto a dollar 25.Why'd you call a dollar tree?I mean, I feel like you could see this coming.You know, I, you know,20th century Fox,
03:03Sergio Mendez and Brazil 66,can't you see that it's not in the future?You just,You just look 2,000 late, you know.But anyway,they're raising the price of everything at the dollarshort to $1.25.They're getting very bougie about it.
03:24They're now calling their expired toothpaste vintage.And don't get me started on M&Ms.You know what?I realized how much I did not know about M&Ms this week.talking about fucking M&Ms.I haven't had one since I was a child.Okay, I didn't realize they have characters.Did you all know this?
03:56Okay, I'm sure.All right, I'm that guy who doesn't know this kind of shit.But I didn't, and so now M&Ms are, yeah, there they are.They're making them more inclusive.Inclusive.There's six of them of different colors.They're male and female.Some have nuts, some don't.
04:12How much more inclusive can you get?I'm telling you.I'm just.learning all this.I'm just...The green one,apparently,uh,
04:29they had to changebecause she was slutty.I'm not...Really?See, that she had likeeye makeup and high heels.Well, that's all gone.It's anyone out there saying,
04:41is that Eminem trying to fuck me?Is this...Is this...Really the biggest thing we have to worry about?I mean, there's a lot of tensionon the border right nowbetween Russia and Ukraine,an incursion could lead to war,
05:04and war could lead to hockey.This could go sideways.We're very...We're very mad at Russia.Very mad at Russia.And they're mad at us.They're mad at us because, well, the Olympics are starting,and it reminds them that they say,
05:23we stole from them the whole thingabout letting big, hairy guys do women's sports.I just saying...What I meant to say is good for M&Ms.But we do have more important things.Oh, listen to this.Biden, our president, remember him?Poor guy.
05:53He goes to Pittsburgh today to sell his infrastructure billand talk about infrastructure.A couple hours before he got there,a bridge in Pittsburgh fell down.And Jill Biden, his wife, said,you know, as things get older,it's harder to keep them up.It's also a shame about that bridge.
06:25That's what she said.But, yeah, Biden, did you see this?He called one of the guys at Fox News,a stupid son of a bitch.And a Republican congressman,I don't remember his name and I don't want to.This guy actually said about Biden callinga Fox News guy, a son of a bitch.
06:48He said, have we ever seen a president attack and malignthe free press like Joe Biden?Yes, yes, we have.I believe his name was,Are you fucking kidding me?The other thing this guy hates about Joe Bidenis the way he cakes on orange makeup.That's terrible.
07:30But good news,looks like Biden's going to get a little mojo back.He's going to get a Supreme Court pick.How about that?Judge Breyer is retiring,and he's going tofulfill his promise.Good very much.
07:45him and appoint a black woman to the Supreme Court, the first one we'd ever have.Yes.And today, Elizabeth Warren said, I just remembered, I'm part that too.But how about a hand for Justice Breyer, who's quitting?He did a good job.He was a good justice.But he's 83.And he said, you know, I'm getting older.
08:18I can remember when M&Ms were hoax.Hors.All right.We got a great show.We've got Matt Welch and Fiona Hill.But first up, what a great honor to have this man.He is the former executive director of the ACLU, who is featured in the documentary Mighty Ira, a civil liberty story.Ira Glasser.
08:37How are you?I won't shake your hands, but I wish I could.Of all the people who have sat in that chair, you were the ones I really want to shake a hand or give you ahug because I feel like you'veaffected my life as headof the ACLU and being sosuch a great protector of free speechwhich is my business.
09:02It sure is. It sure is.And I am very aware, always have beenthat I've been able to reallyenjoy free speech, especiallyhere on HBO at ABCbefore they fired me.But in general.And comedians weren't always.
09:19I mean, you've been with the ACL a long time.Were you there when,Money Bruce was going through his problem?No, not quite.Not quite.But you're aware he had like...Yes.Nine trials.
09:30Right.They put him on trial for things that every comic now says openly.So where's the ACL...Well, you know, they put...They tried to prosecute people for wearing flag shirts, American flag shirts.Now you see American flag decals on everything.Right.People make underwear out of it, toilet paper,
09:52of it. But in the 60s,they prosecuted people for...So you were ahead of this organization,excuse me, for 25 years almost.I mean, from 1978 tointo this century.Right.It's changing.
10:06I mean, it was a stalwart defenderof free speech and civil liberties.Is it still that?Not as much.I mean,they just produced a couple of years agonew guidelinesfor their lawyers to use,
10:22when deciding what free speechcases to take. This is a requirementnow for the national ACLUlawyers that before they take acase defending someone's free speech,they have to make sure that thespeech doesn'toffend or threaten
10:38other civil libertiesvalues. In other words,before they're going to defend your free speech,they want to see what you say.That's the ACLU?No, that's the government.What is the ACLU doing, saying?I read that quote.
10:55Then the phrase was values contrary to our value.Our values.But your value is free speech.I mean, the most famous case, you defended the Nazis being able to march in Skokie, Illinois, in 1977.Right.Okay.I'm guessing the Nazis did not reflect your values.That's a good guess.
11:15Right.Actually, actually, most of the speech we defended didn't affect it.Of course.That's what it is.That's the point.That is the point.And you mentioned the flag.This is the problem, I think, that humans have,
11:30but now they have a bigger problem with it than they did in the old days when they were more sophisticated.There's concepts like free speech.And then there's Nazis and flags, which are concrete.And you see a Nazi, you see a flag burning.You don't like it.Or if you're anti-tobacco, you see a tobacco ad, and you don't like that.Or if you're, for women's equality, you see Playboy magazine, you don't like that.People used to say to me, isn't it hard to defend free speech when so few people in this country are in favor of it?
12:05And my response always was, no, that's wrong.Everybody's in favor of free speech, as long as it's theirs.Right.And everybody has an exception.Everybody says, well, I believe in free speech, but.Right.And it doesn't work if there are exceptions.No.
12:21I mean, can I show a quote from the current head, Anthony Romero.I'm sure you're familiar with this gentleman.He said, I reject that we need an entrance exam on civil liberties to establish the bona fidesneeded to work here.What?You don't need an entrance exam on civil liberties in an organization called the American CivilLiberties Union?Would you like to address him directly?
12:47Well, you know, that might be true for hiring people to work.in the Xerox room.I don't, yeah, he's not talking about that.No, that's exactly, that's exactly.But, you know, if you're hiring a lawyer to defend the First Amendment,you want to have a reasonable assumption that he likes the First Amendment,that he supports the First Amendment.If you're hiring...
13:11Word knows about it.Okay.I mean, you know, if you're hiring somebody,if you're hiring a lawyer to defend reproductive choice for women,you want to be reasonably certain that they believe in reproductive choice.Now, sure, it's possible for a good lawyer to defend things that he or she doesn't believe in.But at a cause organization like the ACLU,it wasn't so much that you were doing an entrance exam,
13:42but why would you want to hire somebody who didn't agree with what you were pushing?It seems like, I mean, organizations do drift, right?I mean, the Republican Party used to be about small government and lower taxes,and now it's become an authoritarian personality cult.I would call that a drift.We see it in television.You know, networks don't even do what their name says.Like MTV was music television, they have no more music.
14:13You know, the Learning Channel had Sarah Palin on.Well, really?That's a lesson.That's a good lesson.Well, you know, the Asia, you...has become, not totally, this is not a hundred to nothing,but they've become more of a political, partisan,what they call progressive organization.
14:39Now, organizations have the right to change.They can do that.But the problem is there isn't any other ACOU.And if there isn't somebody who's prepared to defend what you sayand prepared to defend what the Nazis sayand prepare to defend what people for abortion sayand prepare to defend what people who are against abortion say,then the government gets to decide who can speak,
15:02and that's the most dangerous thing of all.Well, the government and the tech companiesare really the ones who decide that these days.Well, it used to be the government and the newspapers.I mean, that's true.I mean, if you can have Fox News, you can have the Times,you can have the Nation magazine,you can have, you know, a thousand,
15:23and flowers bloom. But the real danger to civil liberties and the real danger to speech is lettingthe government pick and choose. Imagine Trump picking and choosing who gets to speak. Imagine RudyGiuliani. I don't have to imagine it. He was mayor in my city for years. You know, we filed moreFirst Amendment lawsuits against Rudy Giuliani than any mayor in the history of New York. He didn't,like a painting in a museum. He tried to get rid of it. You can't allow the government toto pick and choose which speech to allow.And the only way to do thatis to defend speech no matter what the content is.
16:02Yes.So it's...I mean, all the things you mention, you're right.They are threats to free speech.I also think this idea that feelingsare the most important thingis a great threat to...You know, I'm Jewish, and I had relatives
16:25who were very...victims of the Holocaust.And I know what feelings were generated by the Holocaust survivors in Skokiewhen people with swastikis on their arm came to demonstrate in that town.Nothing could be worse than that,except possibly how black people felt in Mississippiwhen people ran around with white sheets and pillowcases on their head and demonstrated.Those are real feelings.
16:58But I once heard a proposal in the ACLU when I was thereand said, well, why don't we say that it's all right to prohibit speechthat causes emotional stress?And I remember looking at that person who suggested that and said,you know, every time I open my mouth, I'm looking to cause emotional stress.And I'm about to do it again.You know, William Buckley's wifeAt a dinner we were at once
17:31One said to me, I used to be on his show a lotAnd she said to me, why do you, you know,You're so mean to my husband, Bill, she said sort ofAnd I said, well, Pat, he says such terrible thingsAnd, you know, it would be irrational not to be mean to him.That's what I do for a living, you know.And so, you know, for the ACLU to decidethat that kind of stuff
17:56needs to beprohibited, restricted, or they're not going todefend it, is to deny what theACLU is there for and to denywhat it's been there for ever since it was createdin 1920. Well, I wish everyonesees this documentary, Mighty Ira,because you certainly are, and I'm glad you're here
18:15still talking about it because we need you. Thank you so much.Ira Glasser. Let's meet our panel.Hey, everybody.Okay, here they are.He's the host of the Reason Roundtable podcastand the host of the fifth column podcast.Matt Welch is over here.Two podcasts.
18:42One of you.You meet you, man.I know everyone in America gets one, but you have to.She's the former senior director at the U.S. National Security Council.My old job.Specializing in Russian and European Affairsand author of There is Nothing for You hereFinding Opportunity in the 20th Century, Fiona Hill.
19:00to see you.Okay, great to see you both.Last week, we were talking about COVID at the beginning of the show.We're going to do it again because, you know,we're having a big national debate here about, I think,life and death and what should we do moving forwardand who's being selfish or not.So a lot of people attacked me.
19:23But I just want to say my opinion that we should get back to normal.I'm in good company, if I'm crazy.because the governor of Pennsylvania, he's a Democrat.He said this week, I think everybody's angry.It's been two years now.We were fatigued and ready to move on.I think a lot of political vectors are reflecting that.Okay.
19:46I see Denmark.I mentioned last week, the U.K., Boris Johnson said,we're opening back up.Now I see the Prime Minister of Denmark said,we say goodbye to the restrictionsand welcome the life we knew before.as of February 1st, Denmark will reopen.So, Matt, I wanted to just read your quote.
20:07I thought it was really interesting in the end of your article.You're talking about kids.And they say, they, we need relief from the restrictions imposed by neurotic, status,and ultimately selfish adults.I would agree with that.And I'm particularly interested in the word selfish,because it's always lobbied at people who are saying that we are,that we should be able. We're the selfish ones.
20:32If you are for maximum safetyin all situations, you are the good peopleand this is selfish. It's a great question.Who is really being selfishat this point? The people who arewanting to keep schools closed, there's stillsome close, Flint, Michigan,who have personnel problems as well.
20:48But people who want to impose the typesof rules that are not beingfollowed or recommendedpretty much anywhere else in the world. The World HealthOrganization says don't maskkids under five.New York and 14 other states, all of which voted for Joe Biden, incidentally, follow the CDC guidelines, mask from age two.My daughter, who just turned seven, this week, has been wearing a mask for 30% of her life.
21:13And in January, as Omicron, thankfully, is, you know, to shape like a stifle, right?It goes straight up and it goes straight down in New York.As Omicron was cutting through, they're like, okay, you have to upgrade your mask that you wear every day in your schoolwhere every one of the kids is vaccinated and every one of the teachers is vaccinated.Who are we protecting in that scenario?We don't realize to what extent we are departing from basic kind of scientific understandings of thingsin giving into our own understandable at first sense of fear and panic.But we're adults.
21:46We have to assess risks.We have not been doing that, and we've been inflicting it on the most vulnerable population.And it's a disaster.It's been really, really bad.Yeah.Do you care with that?Yeah.Well, David Leonhard, I think in the New York Times, the only sane voice there, in my view.
22:11And I think it's fantastic.Here's a great quote from him this week.He wrote, millions of Democrats have decided that organizing their lives around COVID is core to their identity as progressives.That's really a key to this.Because, again, these are the science people.And they're not listening to basic science.science. I see people incars, alone
22:34in a car with the mask. Do theythink they're going to get it from the radio?They might be wanting to be incognito.I have to say that sometimes.I have put the mask on when I don't want anyone to know it to me going by.Haven't you done that? I mean, come on. I don't have the level ofnotoriety. I've definitely done it.I have to confess. But
23:02why can't wepreciselytarget, and Imean target, protect the people who are vulnerable and let society go back.I'm like, here's what I don't understand.Lancet came out this week.90%, up to 90%, their head guy said, I think it was their head guy, said Omicron people who have itasymptomatic.
23:29With the other variants, it was like 40%.Now, even 40%.Think about that.the horrible Delta, the horrible COVID classic.Almost half the people never even knew they had it.That never happened with smallpox.Okay. Now, he said,Amacron, up to 90% could be acium to mass.
23:53And I know so many people have had it, because it's everywhere.And they're like, it's nothing.I've had hangovers that were worse.Really?So I'm not, okay.I also know that people are still dying,hundreds of people a day.I want to know how both things can be possible.
24:12So I'm asking, so I got, who's dying?99% from June 2021 of COVID-19 deaths unvaccinated.Right.78% I've read this before are the people hospitalized or died,overweight or obese.People over 65 make up 75%percent of all COVID deaths.So in other words, we could be more precise about this.
24:41We could pinpoint and help protect the people who are vulnerableand the rest of us go back to life, it seems to me, and we don't do that.Why?I think it's part of the way that we've started to talk about it.I mean, you're already touching on it, right?I mean, you just said that, you know, part of the problem is, you know, the Democrats,on the one hand, think one thing.Of course, we know that on the other Republicans, I was literally in a coffee shop
25:04up in Wisconsin when I was visiting some of my in-lawsand a guy in front of me,I was wearing a mask because this was in the peak of the Delta variant.And the guy said to his friend,you know, of course I'm not going to get vaccinatedto wear a mask because I'm a Republican.And I immediately thought, what?I mean, how are we making these decisions
25:21based on a partisan basis?And that's really what you're getting at here.Right.It's that people are actually looking at identity politicsor their own personal political preferences.We've got so polarizedthat we're not making rational judgments.I mean, I'm probably with you guys, weighing up my daughter who's 15 versus my mother who's 87.
25:39I haven't seen my mother in more than two years.She's now in a residential home in the UK, but, you know, she's obviously at risk,whereas my daughter's in a completely different category.So we need to have a sensible conversation about that, not that it's based on what my political preference is.Right, that we protect the people.I would spend any amount of tax money to do that, the people who are truly vulnerable.You know, Stephen Breyer.doesn't want to work with Gorsuch because Gorsuch won't wear a mask.
26:07I support that. He's 83. I get that.Gorsuch should wear a mask around an 83-year-old.But, you know, this is not a country where most people are around an 83-year-old.It just isn't because we're an ageist country.I guess we're a different...I would also like to...I mean, it's completely right.When you look at the different spread of policies, of maskings, of vaccine mandates,
26:32and whatever you people had to...to get into this building today by California law.Unspeakable acts on Fairfax.But no, with all the, it's based on partisanship.It's based on who you voted for in the election,which is bananas to me.So as someone who's not part of that,I would like to propose this kind of semi-truse.
26:51Each side, Team Red and Team Blue did one good thing,one big thing great and one big thing terrible, right?Team Blue, you did so great on the thing that actually matters the most.You got vaccinated, right?It's the greatest protection possible against this thing.Get the vaccine.You're probably not going to die if you're healthy.Most Republican, 80% of Republicans over 65 got the shot.
27:12Right, but still not enough.Still not enough.And a lot of the places that are getting hurt right now.So Republicans didn't do that stuff good.But Republicans did keep schools open, didn't issue vaccine mandates to go into a bar.New York, you're five years old.You can't go inside of an indoor building, even though if you're coming from Europe,you can't get a vaccine.
27:32in Europe. There are all kinds of mad things that have happened in blue states. They got thatwrong. So can we all say that we all did? And I did too. We all got stuff wrong. So in the meantime,can you get rid of some of these mandates that we don't need anymore after the Omicron steeple goes downand then also get vaccinated? And then we can get back. But there's going to be another variant.You can't, every time it goes away, we're like, okay, now we're out of it. We're never out of it.We're never out of it. It wants to live and it will. It's a virus. It's going to evolve.And we can't be like, oh, okay, when the...That's what we said about Delta.
28:06When that goes away, that can't be the template.I'm sorry.It has to be, it's here, it's...It's...It's here as well.I don't need more...I don't need more controversy.We have the protection for it.
28:23That's the main argument is that we have the protection for it.Right.So, like, we should be able to, after the ICU beds are no longer filled,we should be able to not have...Again,the huge change,the vaccine doesn't stop you from getting itand doesn't stop you from transmitting it.
28:39It stops you from dying.That's pretty good.That's pretty good.Take your victory and go home.And if you don't, I can't, you know,I can't be more invested in your health than you are.Yeah.It has to be about communication, right?
28:56I mean, we've got a safe space in this tableand a very safe space out there with everyone with all their masks on.It starts to...to be able to figure out how we can talk about this in a series.It starts to look like every other governmentprogram, and what is the common threadof government programs?They never end. They never end, exactly.
29:12Including all that, I mean, you talked about moneybeing spent on this, you'd be happy to.We've spent a lot of money. Where did it go?Jeff Bezos on Nas and Amazon.Yeah, you see. Right, which, and those masksare now, like, polluting the ocean.Yeah, they're everywhere. Yeah, they're everywhere.But exactly, government programs never end.
29:32That's whether it's a Moher subsidy.Or let me bring up this government program that maybe should have ended NATO.Because let's talk about that.That was a funny segue.You don't think that's a true segue?No, I said there's a great segue.Oh, thank you.Yeah, because NATO was formed to fight the Soviet Union, which disappeared in 1991.
29:59I mean, I'm not sure what we should do about Ukraine.if Russia looks like they're about to install a puppet government,like they did here.But, I mean, is it really our fight?And again, why is there a NATO?When the Soviet Union went away,would we have been better off instead of it to say,we still hate you, Russia?
30:32It starts to look like an only,Everybody but you club.Well, that's definitely how Vladimir Putin feels.I mean, you know, he'd be, if he's watching this monologue right now,he'd be going, yep, that's exactly how I feel.Well, I mean, I'm not saying he's not a bad guy.He is a bad guy.We're going to talk about him in a minute in a funny way.
30:52But, again, I'm just going back 30 years ago when the Soviet Union fell.NATO was formed strictly to counter the Soviet Union.Now it doesn't exist.But we've signed up 15 new countries.to be against the thing that doesn't exist anymore.Of course, Russia still exists,but of course, there's going to be a reaction to that.Would we have been better off to disband NATO
31:15when the Soviet Union went away?And so these countries became free of the Soviet Union,but not part of an organization that's against you.Well, Mike, you were out there, weren't you, in Eastern Europe,just around that time,because there's a different perspectivefrom, you know, where you're sitting and standing at the same time.Because in Eastern Europe, they've probably said,
31:34let's keep it, we want to be part of that club.But in the Russian perspective,they wanted it to go.They were interested, especially the firstkind of graduating countries, Czechoslovakia, Poland, and Hungary.They were interested in the Cold War ending too.Didn't go so well for them, after all.They had 100,000, you know, Red Army troops on their soil.
31:53They had to get them out of there.And they didn't want Washington here.And so there's a big initiative at the timeto say, we want a new security group.It will be European.It won't be Russian and it won't be American.It'll be European. Let's do this.What do you say? Europe?
32:09Nothing. Crickets.And crickets. Crickets and also Yugoslavia.Bad combination, generally speaking.So France and Germany and England couldn't get anything together.And so they tried for two years to create a thing.Nothing was created.Meanwhile, these countries that had been absolutely devastated by communism,40 years of communism,
32:27and then their whole history before has to be invaded from right and from left,from Germany and Russia,they wanted a security guarantee.So it's not a question of America in 1994,in 1993, really wanted to expand NATO.Nobody did.Those countries did.They wanted a place that had a security guarantee.
32:45We didn't have to do what they wanted.And no one was offering to it.Well, the question is, like, are they...They just made a bad decision.We just...I think we, like, the guys after World War II,those guys, Keenan,they made brilliant decisions
32:56about how they handled the post-war world.Brilliant. And I think these guys fucked it up.Well, George Kennan, in fact, that very one and the same,he didn't think it was a great idea to expand later.Oh, really?Yeah.So he would have been with you for exactly the reasons that we're going to end up today.But, you know, that was, of course, just as Matt said,
33:15there was a push coming from elsewhere to expand it.And, you know, at the time in that, you know, early period of the 1990s,we did have this big discussion about should we have some other arrangement with Russia?Unfortunately, we didn't.And now we've got Putin trying to dismantle it.led by folks. We thought this would be a great weekto do 24 things you don't know aboutVladimir Putin. I don't know if you
33:37know some of thefavorite departmentsof our show, but wedo 24 things you don't know about.I mean, Us Magazine did 25, butthis is, I think ours is better.And let me tell you, Putin is known to besecretive, but when we interviewed him for this,
33:57he was an open book.For example, 24 thingsyou don't know about Vladimir Putin. I'm sellingthe P-tape as an NFT.There you go.I did not know that about it.When immersed in icy water,my penis gets bigger.
34:18I'm an optimist.I look at Ukraine as half-invaded.Sometimes I think about stepping downfrom leadership so I could vote more of my timeto selling stolen electrons.My favorite 80s hairband,Motley crew.Ha, you thought I'd say poison.
34:50I'm the first to admitRussia has problems.For example, the suicide right of our journalistis off the chart.Let's just say I don't not drink human blood.I own a small hotel chainin the United States called the Trump Organization.Two interesting things about my tattoo.
35:23It says 666, and it's not.a tattoo. So let's talkCold War. Let's say about here. I've heard you say,you think we're kind of in a Cold War here. I think that's very interesting.You know, there's lots of talk about a Civil War. ButI keep saying, how could that work? It's not like the first Civil War.We were on different sides, and we're all marbled together. We're intermingled.I don't know. You know, my dry cleaner is behind enemy lines. I don't know.
35:59There's 4 million Trump voters in California.That's more than there are people in 30 states.But the time of troubles in Ireland, that's what you're comparing it to.That's interesting.If people don't remember Ireland, the sod from which I was spawned, they had 30 years where it was a low-level civil war, but it was just bombings and violence.And life went on, but horribly brutish, nasty and small.And you think that could happen here.Yeah, I mean, look, that's kind of intercommunal violence, right?
36:34I mean, I think we'd all say that saying it's going to be the civil warand we're going to have the Battle of Gettysburg againjust doesn't seem to get it for most people.But what was going on in Ireland for a very long period,and I was growing up in the north of England at that time,and it was on British soil, you know, more broadly,not just in Northern Ireland, but also in the mainland.You had, of course, it was actually the biggest improvised explosive device
36:59bombing campaign in history.I mean, you tend to think of like the PLO or, you know, some kind of this happening in the Middle East.But it was actually in the UK.They tried to blow up Margaret Thatcher during, you know, the party convention for the Conservative Party.They did blow up Lord Mount Mountain.They did.And assassinations of also various members of the British Parliament.Bombings in mainland cities.
37:22And, you know, eventually this was kind of stopped by a big civil rights equivalent movement.Basically, women, you know, getting on the street.and protesting about, you know, what was going on there.But for someone growing up there, you know,you couldn't leave basically a bag in the streetbecause people thought there would be a bomb in it.I had friends who, you know, left a car park somewhereand it would be blown up
37:41because people were so paranoid on edge the whole time.Look, I mean, it's basically like we are, you know,right now we look at someoneand we immediately get suspicious about are they on the other side.You know, as someone growing up,you'd meet an Irishman or a Catholic,you'd immediately think, God, are they in the IRA?You know, what's going on here?
37:58Are they a sympathizer?But in actual fact,the IRA was only really 400 people.Because when we start to think about intercommunal violence here,we think about militias.We're not talking about thousands of people.We're just talking about a few hundred peoplewho were really that motivated
38:12in terms of...The Irish Republican Army was only 400 people?It was only around that.It was only like the real hardcore of the IRA.It wasn't what you thought.The people who actually did the violence.Yeah, because even though you've got a lot of sympathy...But the political wing was much larger, who supported them.
38:27Correct. So you can have a big pool of sympathizersor people who actually do believe that Ireland should have been united and independent,but they're not going to be the people who are perpetrating the violence.Like terrorists, Islamic terrorists, or Islamists.Exactly. Big difference.Yes, but Islamists are people who generally would applaud what the terrorists are doing,but wouldn't do it themselves.But they wouldn't necessarily do anything themselves.
38:48Right. Exactly right.But you're saying you don't need a hell of a lot of people.No, you don't. Right.And you could just have that kind of, you know, tipping point of sentiment,but you don't need to have something on that big scale.It went on for decades before, as I said,there was like a movement from the grassroots to try to stop it.I tend to think that we'd need them to be in better shape than they are currently.
39:08Who?Who?I mean, the U.S. domestic terrorists who are doing the next sectarian troubles in the United States.I mean, people are not that motivated, I just don't think, here.When you walk down the street, you don't see someone who's ready for political violenceor to cheer it on from the sidelines.I don't think that people are that emotionally invested of,especially after 22 months of the pandemic,
39:33you're emotionally invested to survive the dayof getting your kid into schoolmore than just about anything else that's going on.But it depends on the circumstance.Think about January 6th.I mean, not everybody who showed up at Trump's rallythen stormed the Capitol building, right?But there was a handful of people.
39:47Like, look at the...They were surprisingly motivated in weird ways as well.They were motivated in weird ways.But like, see...Yeah, it's true.But see how desperately bad their organization.was. I mean, if you read the affidavit of their complaint on the Oathkeeper's guys who are now up againstinsurrection charges, it's a pretty pathetic day that they had. They're like, all right, I'm going to, do you have a boat to go across the river here? Gosh, I don't know what to do. Like, they were not coordinating well. They were not organized. And they were the scariest bit of a very, very scary and troubling day. What I wonder is, is that day the beginning of something new. You notice people would go, you know, those people look great to me. They were really on the cutting edge of something. Or do people look at that?
40:28and you get a little bit scared straight.You know, like, why God, what did we do on that day?Right. Okay.Let me move on to the court,because I think this is a very historic week.We're going to have the first black woman on the Supreme Court.That's pretty big stuff.It's also the week we learned that the Supreme Court
40:52is going to take up whether we should have,consider race in admissions.Now, I've always been a proponent of what they callcall affirmative action. I don't know if they use that term anymore. But I don't know. It's been a longtime. Maybe it's outdated because when I look at the polling, 73% of Americans say college anduniversities should not use race as a factor in admissions. 62% of black Americans agree with that.I find it weird to be more on the side of something black people themselves are not.I mean, I think it's important to work backwards a little bit or like start,
41:30with the first question of what are we trying to do here, right?If the idea is we're trying to reduce the barriers to people who have had through no fault of their own disadvantages.Right.What's the way to do that?Is it to start judging, do you belong to this category called Asian or black or whatever based on sometimes some pretty weird tests?Or do you come from a socioeconomic background that's having a hard time?That's how they do it in Oxford.It's the socioeconomic thing.
41:58It has nothing to do with the race, and it kind of works a lot better.If you did that and at Harvard and other places,got rid of legacies,the one out of three people who are admittedbecause daddy or mommy got in there,that would do a hell of a lot morethan trying to figure outwhether a Bangladeshi is the same as a Chinese version
42:17is the same as a Philadelphia.It's all madness.Especially as we mingle more and intermarry more,it's hard.It's going to be harder.It's already harder to say who is of what race.I do think we have to be a little bit carefulon this though and I'll just speak to this because I did go to Harvard for grad school and I was
42:35actually affirmative action I mean although I'm obviously white but because I came from a very poorsocioeconomic background and when I was being selected for grad school pretty much everybody on thescholarships that I came to on from the UK went to Oxford and Cambridge no offense to OxfordCambridge but they all came from basically private schools with one other exception but I was the onlykid basically or at that point you know who was selected for these scholarships to come from apoor background and from a very under-resourced school. And so I was very grateful that Harvard hadactually made that extra effort to seek me out. And what I saw when I was there was that that wasjust one factor. I think the socioeconomic aspect of this is very important too. And when you get
43:15back to the Supreme Court, which is kind of very interesting that they're looking into thisselection right now, one of the candidates that Biden is apparently considering for the SupremeCourt is a black woman from a poor socioeconomic background who went to a non-Intyreconomic background who went to anon-Iver League school.Oh, really?And so I think that all those kinds of factorsreally need to be considered,because it's not a question of people
43:37getting an unfair advantagebecause of how they lookor, you know, what their ethnicity or race is,but it's getting rid of unfair disadvantage.Well, one of the unfair disadvantagesthat's underlying the Harvard caseis just against Asians.Right?
43:50It's against the...That's what the... The suit is about Asians.Right, exactly.And, boy, they have done them some dirty.Because, I mean, Asians, they...You know, they study hard.Whatever it is, I don't know, but they do very well, so well that Harvard basically went backdoor to make sure that they didn't basically dominate the incoming class.So they went to something on the test called positive personality.
44:16So they're going to judge you also on your personality.And they judged Asians were lacking in likability.And these are basically, they're judging high school kids.Yeah.These are who they have.Likeability, courage, kindness, and being widely.respected. Oh, yes, because I remember being widely respectedin high school.
44:37Anyway, that's...They used tests like that in the 1920s at Harvard and otherelite schools to limit the number of Jews. I mean, we're workingbackwards from perceived bastions of success that would neveraccept a people of someone like me and then saying,are there too many Asians? Okay, we've got to do something. That's weird.That's using discrimination against Asians.All right. Thank you. You were great.
45:00Time for New Rule.New Rule, now that baseball's Hall of Fame has denied Barry Bond's membership for the 10th year,someone has to tell them, you're being ridiculous.He's the game's greatest home run hitter.Let him in the hall.It's not like it's going to give him a big head.New Rule, if you visit Bangkok, skip the exhibit called the Birth Experience at the KidMy Death Awareness Cafe.
45:46It's not very realistic.Not many babies step out of the vagina.fully clothed wearing a strappy sandwich.And if you had to leave this place in a hurry,imagine what the emergency exit looks like.New Rule, you can twist yourself into a pretzeltrying to pretend that it's Islamophobiaevery time I call this out as barbaric.
46:20But you have to admit,there's something a little offwhen your meat is not wrapped, but your wife is.Neuro, if you're going to make someone an offerto buy their children,don't do it at Walmart.A woman in Texas did that, and now, well, she just looks cheap.Get a Macy's baby or a Neiman Marcus baby.
46:57And Target always has everything.And be smart about it.Don't approach the mom until her kids are throwing a temper tantrum in the cereal aisle.She'll pay you to take them.No, well, now that the Los Angeles Times has written the headline,Psychics and astrologers are huge on Instagram,now scammers are impersonating them.Someone must send them an anonymous tip
47:29that this guy on Hollywood Boulevardmay not actually be Spider-Man.And finally, new rule, it's depressing enough.Having just had a birthday in being 66,please don't ask me to start doing grown-up thingslike run for president.A few weeks ago, Fox News's Dana Perino,a former Bush press secretary,
47:57suggested that the Democratsshould recruit me to run for president,which is kind of specialbecause it means that in the space of 20 years,Bush press secretaries have gone from telling me I need to watch what I say.They need to watch what they say, watch what they do,and this is not a time for remarks like that.There never is.
48:20They've gone from that to wondering if I should run for president.It'll be interesting to see if Bill Maher is recruited to run for the presidency.Now, some people think this means I've changed.I assure you I have not.I am still the same,unmarried, childless, pot-smokinglibertine I always was.I have many flaws, but you can't
48:52accuse me of maturing.Let's get this straight.It's not me who's changed.It's the left, who is nowmade up of a small contingent who've gonemental, and a large contingentwho refused to call them out for it.But I will. That's why
49:14I'm a hero at Fox these days.Which shows just howmuch liberals have their head up their ass,because if they really thought about it, they would havemade me a hero on their media.But that can't happen in this ridiculous new era of mind-numbing partisanship,where if I keep it real about the nonsense in the Democratic Party,it makes me an instant hero to Republicans.
49:43The same thing happened in reverse to Darth Vader's daughter, Liz Cheney,who is now a hero to liberals,simply because she recognizes Biden did not steal the last election.What a sad commentary.on our politics.We're simply acknowledging realityis now seen as a profile in courage.People sometimes say to me,
50:06you don't, you didn't,you didn't use to make fun of the left as much.Yeah, because they didn't give me so much to work with.The oath of office I took was to comedy.And if you do goofy shit,wherever you are in the spectrum,I'm going to make fun of youbecause that's where the gold is.
50:32And the fact that they are laughing at itshould tell you something, it rings true.When normalpeople read that San Franciscohas basically legalizedchoplifting, they thinkDemocrats have gone nuts.They think, you know,
50:58that Ted Cruz guyseems like a real stiff.But at least he believesin the concept of shopping with money.It's notmy fault that the partyof FDR and JFKis turning into the party of LOL and WTF.
51:21Members of Congresstweeting things like cancel rent,cancel mortgage, and no more policingor incarceration, declaring that capitalism is slavery,canceling Lincoln and Dr. Seuss,teaching children their oppressors,and math is racist,making Mr. Potato Head gender neutral,
51:49and now an emoji for pregnant men.Real. I'm not making it up.California just passed a law,requiring large retailers to have a non-gendered toy section.A non-gendered toy section, isn't Ken enough?We need a law for that?Do you have to inject yourselves into everythingfrom where you can throw a frisbee to who can braid hair?
52:29This is why so many people, by the way,were triggered by COVID policies.they were already sick of rules.Regulation should be a good issue for Democrats.It's certainly one they're associated with.And I think the average voter would agree that banksand chemical plants and drug companies need watching.Telling a company,
52:52you can't dump the waste from your hog farmstraight into the water supply.We're mostly all for that.But Democrats have become a parody of themselves,just making rules to make.make rules because it makes you feel like you're a better person.Making sure that everything bad never happens again, which you can never fully do.It just makes everyone else's life a drag.
53:16The Biden Infrastructure Bill has a provision that requires all new cars to install an alertsystem that goes off when you leave a baby in the back seat, which is something doneonly by crackheads and people who sadly, yes, do it on purpose.and after every one of us winds up bearing the costfor cars to install this alarm,you know who's going to ignore it?Crackheads and people who do it on purpose.A censor light is not going to fix this problem,
53:56and Democrats no longer possess the common senseto understand that not every problem in the worldcan be fixed with a regulation.But don't tell that to the advocacy groupswho also want every future car in Americato only start when the driver blows into a breath alive.Oh, great. My other car is a Karen.Well, you know, it's also not safe to drive when you're crying.
54:31Should we make a car that follows your texts and stops the engine when you're dumped?Racism is bad. How about a car that won't start unless you play a message about tolerance from George decay?Regular viewers of this program may recall my long battle to get solar power hooked up at my house.It involved this shed, which had to be built to house this solar battery.Yes, that battery needed a house to live in.And not just any house.One that had to follow the specifications of this chart.That's a real chart of the steps we had to go through to get this thing turned on.
55:28Democrats have to stop thinking that what the voters dream about is to be hassled.If you buy a shed at Costco, it comes.with this warning.Warning, this product can expose you to wood dust.Wood dust.No kidding.Which is known to the state of Californiato cause cancer.
55:49That's right.California thinks you're going to snort your shed.I don't want to blow Pinocchio.I just want to put the lawnmower away.All right.That's our show.I'll be at the Smart Financial Centerin Sugar Land, Texas, April 9th.
56:13At the Tulsa Theater and Tulsa.April 10 to the Borgata in AtlanticCity, April 30th. I want to thank MattWelch, Fiona Hill, Ira Glasser.Now go to YouTube and join uson overtime. Thank you, folks.Catch all new episodes of real time with BillMarr every Friday night at 10.
56:33Or watch them anytime on HBO on demand.For more information,log on to hbo.com.
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