Real Time with Bill Maher - Ep. #707: WH Border Czar Tom Homan, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV), Alex Wagner

Episode Date: September 20, 2025

Bill’s guests are WH Border Czar Tom Homan, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV), Alex Wagner (Originally aired 9/19/25) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late-night series, Real Time with Bill Maugh. Thank you so much. Please, there's so much. Okay. Thank you very much. I know why you're happy tonight.

I'm still on. Oh, I tell you. Man, talk show hosts are going down like blockbusters in the 90s. Well, I guess you all heard Jimmy Kimmel, my friend, my compatriot, he's canned by ABC for comments he made about Charlie Kirk's assassin. The day right after the FCC guy came ahead of the FCC. He said he's going to revoke ABC's license. Let me just tell you something. I am not intimidated by the FCC, and if President Trump is watching, I have one thing to say to you.

Have you lost weight? You look terrific. No, that's not me. will be, and we're going to get to all of it, but I think, here's it, life is fucking weird. It was 24 years to the day that

I made comments on ABC that got me canceled from that network, and Jimmy Kimmel took my slot. Did you know that? And politically incorrect? Oh, yes, I got canceled before Cancel even had a culture. I'd like. Yeah, this is

on my wall from the variety. White House keeps heat on ABC's more. This shit ain't new. It's worse, we'll get to that. But, you know, ABC, they are steady. ABC stands for always be caving. So, Jimmy, pal, I am with you, I support you, and on the bright side, you don't have to pretend any more

that you like Disneyland. That was always a great part of it for me when I got my ass canned over there. But, I mean, this intimidation on the right is just so hypocritical. I mean, everyone is scared now, and they're all trying to kowtow. Good Morning America is now changing its name,

could do Good Morning America, even the scum who didn't vote for Trump. I mean, listen to this. Next year, The Golden Bachelor is Rudy Giuliani. I mean, I'm telling you, everybody's scared. Wolf Blitzer is broadcasting live from the capitulation room. And the FCC, the FCC says they're going to go after maybe next, the view. They got a new show lined up.

It's going to be great. It's called Morning Wood with James Wood. And, but I got to say, and I'm friendly with the ladies on the view, but they didn't say anything about this this week. Nothing. You know, because it's never been their thing to weigh in a. the issues. It's just it's just an upbeat party show. That's why they hired people

named Joy and Sunny and Whoopi. So, but, you know, girls, let me tell you. Go out strong. Okay? It won't kill you. I promise it's happened to me and I may go out after this show. We don't know. We don't know. And, you know, Jimmy, look, I don't think what he said was exactly right. I don't. We don't. We don't agree on that. He still didn't lose his job

for it. He said the MAGA crowd was trying to characterize the assassin as anything but one of them because the guy's, the 22-year-old kid in John his family was MAGA. As if a 22-year-old with a trans-girlfriend never rebelled against their family?

I mean, but was he on the left? I don't know that either. And I hate to do this. I'm tipping the end of the show, which I work so hard to keep the secret from the rest of the show, but it's too relevant. What I'm talking about at the end,

I'm going to have to say now, which is that it is a fool's errand to try to say that these nuts who do these things are any team. Jimmy's wrong, I think, to put him in one team. But, you know, look at what this guy is doing. I mean, Jimmy has every right to be wrong, but look at this guy.

He was doing porn video games with furries. He was on a game called furry shade. of gay three. This kid is in his basement with VR goggles on getting virtually ass-fucked by a cartoon wombat. And you're going to put politics

into this? This kid doesn't belong in either party. He belongs in a straight jacket. He's an outpatient who should not be out. But you're of the right to be wrong or to have any opinion you want.

that's what the First Amendment is all about. I was defending it last week on the show against what they're doing in England against the left. Come on, guys. Be fair. Now Trump is going after the New York Times. He sued them for $15 billion. He said, there were a mouthpiece of the Democratic Party. You know what, Don? They are.

You're right. And that's their right to be that. Like there's not a thousand people on the right who are your mouthpiece? Okay, that's how we work in this country. And he is mad at the New York Times. a tariff on wordle. But, you know,

this, we can't go down this road, Geist. We really can't. I mean, today he Trump said he was designated in Antifa a major terrorist organization and they were shocked. They said, we're organized? It's, they're not. There is no organization. Antifa's a broad

designation with no identifiable leader and no observable plan. Like the Democrats. So, this So Jimmy, let me just to say, pal, you did a great, funny show for two decades. You should be proud of that. If this firing goes for you, the way it did for me,

you'll get 23 years on a better network. You're under President Trump, and known currently as the administration's board is on. Tom Holman, Tom. Pleasure to meet you, son. Thank you for coming here. Yes. And I mean that sincerely,

the first thing I have to tell you is that Republicans come here. I was saying on my show a couple of weeks ago, and people I saw from the reactions on the Internet were shocked that I mentioned this. I should have said it before. They think I don't invite the Democrats. They think we never invited the Clintons.

We invite them every week. They've never come. They think we didn't invite Kamala Harris. We invited her every week. She didn't come. AOC. These people don't come. The Republicans, they show up, and they engage in the debate.

And I know this is a little off-year area. and we're going to get to your area. But do you really think that they're not being a little hypocritical about the free speech issue now? It is odd, Mary. Look, I've never turned down an invitation. I think the more we get out there and speak about truth versus fiction,

miscommunication that's out there, I think most Americans, there's a lot of people in this country that hate me because of what I do. But they have the luxury of knowing of not knowing what I know and wearing my shoes with 40 years. I don't turn down any invitation to talk to anybody

because I'm hoping that when I get done, people say, okay, I get that. Well, that's what you're here for. Let's get to it. What do you know? You're the border zone. You used to be head of ice. You know all the facts and figures. What I read, the border is just closed. Give me the numbers.

We have the most secure border in history of the nation right now. And when you have that secure border, that means your national security is stronger. I mean, in the last four years of Joe Biden had over 10 million people, come to the border. And what people need to understand, understand they want to call it humanitarian crisis. I get it. But when you cause that sort of surge at the border, because before the election, I wrote an op-ed saying that Joe Biden became president, we lose the border,

just because what he was saying, end icy tension, have a moratorium on deportations, award amnesty, and free health care, all these things. I said, when you make that type of offer, the whole world's going to come to the greatest nation. Right? So we've got the most secure border nation's history now, and that means less overdoses of people in fat now, less sex trafficking women and children, less non-inspected terrorists crossing the border, right? The criminal cartels of Mexico are going bankrupt right now. So secure border helps protect our national security. Under Trump 45, we had a total of 14 people on terrorist watchlets come across.

Under Joe Biden, over 400. But the thing that scares me the most is we had over 2 million, two million. two men known godaways I say known because they're captured on video traffic drone traffic or central traffic we know they crossed

but they weren't captured they weren't apprehended they weren't vetted who are they if we arrested 400 people from nation's sponsoring terror how many that two million came from our country sponsored terror

the thing that scares me most of this day we know who they are where they're at or why they came I think most people are for that I certainly am you said It was 10 million that came under Joe Biden. Yeah.

Trump in England said today it was 25. No, 25 illegal hearing in the United States. Look, they've been talking about 12, 15 million for two decades. I've been doing this since 1984. That 12 million is so old. But we know over 10 million Joe Biden, so we just, let's say we accept the 15 million. We've been talking about decades. You're talking well over 25.

Why do you think the Democrats did this? I mean, it was not just bad for the country to have completely open borders. I mean, even the liberals understand that now. It was also bad politically. Why? I get asked that all the time. I don't understand. I work for six presidents don't with Ronald Reagan.

Every president I worked for, even Clinton Obama, took some steps to secure the border because they understood. You can't have strong national security if you don't border security. No one did it better than President Trump. Like him, 11 most successful, when it comes to border security and the safety of this nation, no one has done it better. Joe Biden, it's the first president in the history of this nation that came in office and unsecured the border. There wasn't an accident.

Why? Why? I don't really know. The only thing I can guess is they saw a future political benefit from millions of people in the United States, whether they thought they're future Democratic voters. But remember, when he signed 90 executive orders destroying everything we did, he also overturned the Trump's census rule, which means millions of people were released in sanctuary cities when we counted in the next census. What's that mean?

More seats in House of the Dams. There's no other reason. I ask every Democrat ever talked to, what's the downside of a secure border? What's the downside unless illegal drugs, killing Americans? What's the downside less sex trafficking and women and children? What's the downside unless terrorists come across the country? What's the downside? They can't give you a downside.

So they must have saw a future political benefit. And Sanctuary Cities was tremendously hypocritical. These cities that were not on the border and didn't have the problem. And then when people started sending them to those cities, they were like, oh, fuck, this is a terrible problem. Thanks for the city. I get this. From day one, I said, sanctuary cities are sanctuaries for criminals.

What does that mean? We just want access to the jail. The jail, we already lock somebody up and put them in a jail cell because they're obviously a public safety threat and they're in the country legally. Let us have access to them. Because here's what the general public don't know. If you and I get arrested tonight, you're going to be run to NCI, so your fingerprints are taking it gets run through NCIC.

But at the same time, it gets run against DHS databases. So we get a notification. Tom Homan, illegal alien from this country, just got booked in Homan County Jail. So we contacted, hey, we want to talk to that. We have a warrant form where he's been deported before. We want him. And they'd rather release the criminal public safety threat back into the public, which is just stupid.

You're releasing a public safety threat back into public to reoffent. And they like saying sanctuary or see they're needed because it protects immigrants. They want to report crimes or a victim or they're a witness. Instead of a crime, they want to feel welcome to come to the police and talk to them. I'm not for that. We're not looking for the victim of witness. We want the guy that you locked in a jail cell, and the victim witness, they don't want him back in the neighborhood either. So there's no justification for sanctuary city other than just...

Okay, but you would agree that we need some immigration. Like, we used to have a quota, like a million people a year. Say that's the right number. We still do. We're the most giving nation in the entire world. Okay. So let's say it's that. And we went overboard for the last.

four years under Biden, and we let in too many. Wouldn't it be smarter now to say, now that it's zero, let's let that even out? We should have had, we were going to have one or two million every year, but we let in 10 million. Instead of uprooting all these people now, why not just an amnesty? Okay, it's not exactly culture how you got here. But the amount of people you're scaring, I mean, I'm going to say to you the thing I said to him when I had dinner with him that horrible night. And, you know, they hated it that I reported.

it honestly that he does listen. And he looks in the eye. And he did not get mad one time when we were arguing about anything. About anything I contradicted him. And I said to him, and I'll ask you now, the exact words, you're scaring people. Do you really want to scare your own people this much?

He talks about homegrowns are next. I mean, people are scared, not just illegal immigrants. And a lot of them are working. I live in L.A. They're the only people here who do work. So here's what you don't know. First of all, President Trump's promise we're going to concentrate in public safety threats and national security threats, right? And the data shows that every morning I look at 22 pages of data.

The last time I looked at the data was the day before yesterday. 70% of everybody arresting is a criminal. 70%. Who's the other 30%? Lathering national security threats. We've arrested thousands of national security threats. Most of them don't have criminal histories because they're laying low to do their dirty deed down the road. And we arrest gang members.

A lot of gang members don't have criminal... But let me get to the point, though. If you want to send the message to the whole world, cross the border legally, it's a crime, but it's okay. Have due process, get order removed by an immigration, just don't leave, it's okay. Just don't commit another crime, and you're good to go. If that's the message we send to the whole world,

people are going to keep coming. And let me tell you something, there's a whole, illegal immigration is not a victimist crime. The reason I am who I am, I've talked and got on my knees and talked to nine-year-old little girl, who were raped by multiple members of a cartel just for passing her across the river. I stood in back with Tractor Trail and 19 dead people who baked to death. I ran out by Operation Ice Store in Phoenix, Arizona,

were smuggling organizations, were ripping each other's off because they're smuggled people were worth more money than dope. So they go to house and rip each other off. They call the relative up and say, I have your brother here. You owe us $25,000. They say, no, we agreed on 10. Well, now it's $25,000. you pay or I kill them.

And they did. Bodies are piling up. They actually called relatives and tortured their son or their brother because they didn't pay the fees. What I'm saying is that's why you have to show there's consequences.

Because if you send a message, there's no consequence, and you want to reward illegal behavior, that dot going to stop. And I get all that. And for all that, I thank you for your service, truly. But what we also see

is people being just taken away who are just regular day workers, the waitress, who worked for 14 years at some coffee shop. And everybody's like, oh, you know what? We voted to get rid of the bad people, you know, the people you were just talking about. But not Carol.

What's going on there? Don't you think it's been a little heavy-handed? Don't you think you've picked up a bunch of people who shouldn't be picked up at all? It doesn't seem like it was done with a scalpel. What I think about every day is, again, we prioritize the words first. In the numbers, shall we do it?

When I've said on the day and one, if you're in the country, illegally, you're not off the table. You know why? Because there are millions of people standing in line, taking their tests, doing the background investigations, paying their fees to be part of the greatest nation on earth. If you want to be a part of the greatest nation on earth, there's a right way and wrong way to do it. If you like it or not, the ones are here illegally cheated the system. They moved themselves to the front of the line, and they've overwhelmed the immigration court system

back nine, ten years, which means that people, who are really trying to come here the right way are sitting in the back of the bus, right? It's just like what people don't talk about, these 10 million, 10.5 million who came to the border and Biden, well, they're asylum seekers. What people don't understand, if you look at immigration court data

over the last 10 years, nearly nine out of 10 of them will get an order removal because they don't qualify for a support asylum. They're not escaping fear and persecution from the home government because of race, religion, and political affiliation. They come here for a better life, and I get that. But while they're clogging up the system and cheating the system,

there are really thousands of people in this world that really are escaping fear and persecution from their home countries that are sitting in back of the bus. So there's a reason we're a nation of laws. And if you or people don't like what ICE is doing, they go scream at Congress. We're enforcing laws that they enacting. Well, I hope it all gets better.

I thank you for coming here and explaining it. I appreciate it, Tom. And ask the president to leave me on one more week. I got a really funny bit next Friday. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Tom Holman. Now let's meet our panel.

Okay. Hey. Just one more week. I got a funny bit next Friday. Okay. He is a former senator from West Virginia, whose new book is called Dead Center in Defense of Common Sense. Joe Manchin holding up his book.

There you go. And she is an MSNBC senior political analyst and a contributor to the PODS Dave America podcast. Our returning champion, Alex Wagner, Thank you. Lazzangue, buddy. Lazzang surgelley, Pucance-Moyance-Moyant

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DeConditions Sapplic So But let's not bury the lead Let's just get first into the stunning breathtaking level of hypocrisy About cancel culture

Because apparently Cancel culture And then I do want to get into How complicit the left is Because everything Nothing happens in a vacuum We'll get to it There

What? What? You and I don't have that part on what's going on? Yeah, well, we'll find out. But I mean, it does seem like cancel culture is really not about left or right. It's just about who has the

power. And if you have the power, you can do it. So let's just, you do your thing on this and then I'll vomit on. Well, Bill, no. You start. Let me start on this one. And Bill, let me just say that three, I think four days ago, the president said when he said that this

person, this young person who's accused of the assassination, basically was raised a good family, all the way, brought up until he's about 15 years old and he got radicalized by the Internet. We do nothing to reel in the Internet. We do nothing on social media. We do nothing on cable. But if you're in the mainstream or if you're freedom of speech, you have guard rails. You can't holler fire. You can't basically slander someone without a repercussion. If the President really, truly, and I'm begging him, reel in, put Section 230 to the side, put the same guardrails that you have on freedom of speech, and that'll change.

It'll calm it down a little bit. You can't say on whatever platform you're on, and that platform will be held responsible and accountable if they let it go on and does damage or harm to someone. Yeah. These speech is not absolute. I have a list. You can't slander, libel, direct threats, porn, copyright infringement, inciting violence. Put all that on the Internet.

We can't do any of that. But that's not what Jimmy Kimmel did. Yeah, and hey, I think we're missing a little bit of the point. The President of the United States said explicitly, Jimmy's next. And then his FCC chair went out and channeled his best good fellow's impression and said, we could do this the easy way or we can do this the hard way. I mean, without the accent. What is the hard way, by the way, I guess, is, you know, the FCC getting involved,

but instead basically called the Sinclair and the affiliates out to make trouble, basically, for ABC and ABC caved. ABC caved because ABC had caved before, because Bob Iger had already paid Trump effectively $15 million as an apology for something George Deppinopoulos said. These guys have decided that the spinelessness is their active stance. It's funny, when they fired me, Ari Fleischer was asked in the press room about it, and he said, Americans need to watch what they say. And everybody was like, oh, that's...

so quaint. That that was scanned. And everybody was like, oh, no, Ari Flight, that's too far. Americans don't need to watch what they say. And now, I mean, these people do not understand free speech at all. I mean, listen to Mike Pence.

The First Amendment of the Constitution protects against government censorship of individuals. The First Amendment, though, does not protect entertainers who say crass or thoughtless things. The fuck, yeah, does. What are you talking about? It's like, it doesn't protect crass or thoughtless things.

Even England would not go for that. Well, and Brendan Carr's been like going on podcasts in the time since Jimmy's been taken off the air, saying this is about political ideology. I mean, like, give me a break. This wasn't about whatever Jimmy Kimmel said on Monday. This is about silencing people who are critics of this administration. Well, here's Pam Bondi. There's free speech, and then there's hate speech.

No. hate, that's the whole point, is that free speech means we defend the speech we hate. The standard test is Nazis marching in Skokie. A town full of Holocaust survivors, the Supreme Court

says, you can do that. If that's not right up to the line on what is what were the threat, direct threats and inciting violence, that is right up to there. And they said, no, if you want to have a country with free speech, you let them. And this guy's talking about crass

comments from... Let me just say something on this, but you know, I've always said this. I take constructive criticism well, because it's helped me. It's helped me not make mistakes and repeat them over and help me basically how I would say things and how I approach things. But the press has been... Well, I hate your tie.

I'm just... I wouldn't even want to wear a tie. I thought for you, I would. They said you were talking. You dressed up for you, well. Yeah, I appreciate it. You know, Ted Cruz. At least Ted Cruz said, this guy, the FCC, is crazy. You can't do that. Get rid of it.

Right. Well, okay, here's the ultimate irony, though. Charlie Kirk said, hate speech does not exist legally in America. By the way, I've always been on the same page. Look at the tapes over the decades. This has always been my thing. I never believed in the concept of hate crimes or hate speech. It's a thought crime. We didn't used to have it. They changed it, the liberals. And, you know, so I've always been what I think. Doesn't matter what side. hate speech does not exist legal in America, says Charlie Kirk. There's ugly speech, there's gross speech, there's evil speech, and all of it is protected by the First Amendment, keep America free. Could you guys at least honor the person you're insisting that we honor by honoring his words?

Well, the administration's Wizard of Oz, Tucker Carlson, has come out and said that this is, he said that what Pam Bonnie said isn't okay, Megan Kelly. also said what Pam Bondi said isn't okay. They haven't weighed in on Kimmel, but I am eager to hear their thoughts because I think it is an extension of what Pam Bondi was talking about. Well, I mean, I think we've moved the goalposts so much now

because of what Jimmy Kimmel got fired for that we forget that as abhorrent, I at least feel it's abhorrent. A lot of people in this country apparently don't. It would be to mock somebody's death, even if you disagree with them, completely abhorrent. But not illegal. I'm sorry.

and this idea that they have that they seem to be pushing, that we can't even utter his name, like he's the prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him? No, this is, and again, we should call out those people, somebody on your network got shit-canned. I think the official term was, let go. Okay, this is... Matthew Dowd said,

you can't be saying these awful words and then not expect awful actions to take place. Yes, you can. I do expect that. I do not expect awful actions to take place. I think this is awful when you open this window. Like I didn't like what he said, and what he said was violent, this and that.

Irrelevant. We don't shoot people in this country. And we don't defend it, and we don't mock their death. Whoa. There's no place for violence in this country of any kind. But when there is violence, to have it in the political arena, the hardest thing I've got right now, is getting people to run for office.

People, good quality people, character, raised properly, in for the right reason, put in the country before themselves or before the party. That's hard to find. And when you do find them, they said, I don't think I want to go through all that scrutiny and people beating on me and calling me names and my family and all this.

I said, it's a small price to pay for a wonderful country that we live in a wonderful life you have an opportunity for. But someone has to do it. And when you have a representative form of government that we have, our democracy is based on we are going to govern ourselves. We can do that. It's like an experiment.

240 plus years in the making. 200 years have been pretty good. We had a little rough spot in a Civil War, but we got through that. Let's back that up and say you're a politician going for a joke, which they're bad at. I'm saving him, my dear. I'm not hurting him. He said something that they're going to jump on because he was downplayed. I know you didn't mean.

I know you think that the civil... I can tell right now. Exactly. Let's just quash it now. Gotcha. Because this bullshit has to stop. This gotcha. Don't go after Joe Manchin because he inartfully said a bad joke.

Joe Manchin thinks slavery was horrible and the Civil War was good that we fought it. Yes. Okay. I'm glad we cleared that up. They had more enthusiastic. Absolutely. It's horrible.

Okay, yes. Okay. I said self-governing has been going on for 240 years plus. Right. Okay. And we've had some rough spots. We've always gotten through it. We've always gotten through that.

We've always come back as a country. But when people quit caring, the only people left is those who don't care. And when you have people that won't participate, won't run for office, and now they're scared for their life to be involved in political discourse. This is unbelievable. You have a journalist who don't want to be journalists anymore. That's exactly. Right.

Well, at least you have a job for a while. Do I? Do any of us? That's not good you have. Do any of us? We'll see next week. But just, I'll tell you somebody, it's so interesting. I'll tell you, a journalist who's on TV who did not get fired,

who said something you might think is controversial, but he's still there. Brian Kilmead, he's on Fox News. This is the morning show where they usually are wishing happy birthday to 100-year-olds. They were talking about the homeless. His co-host says, a lot of them don't want to take the programs to get the help. Yes, that's true. This is an issue that should be debated. either you

and saying to the homeless, either you take the resources that were going to give you or are you going to be locked up in jail? Well, I wouldn't lock them up in jail, but I agree they shouldn't be on the street. Brian says, or just kill them.

And this apparently not controversial. Not controversial. Well, I dare say, but we live in a moment when maligning, insulting, or otherwise calling for the death of the poor, the weakest people of color isn't exactly punished by...

I never heard anyone call for the death of them before. Let's be clear here. This is new. But just the fact that it just, ooh, just the angel of death just passed right over that one. At 8.30 in the morning. Well, okay. So, listen. Civility is gone.

Someone said, I hear all these rumors. We're going to have war and we're going to have basically crusades. The only crusade we really need is a crusade for civility. And it starts at the top. And I would ask President Trump, there's one person that can start it. And he can basically start bringing the country together because we can. not continue to divide us the way we are, and he can't throw more fuel on the fire. He could say something, you know, we're going to tempt this down, we're going to come together

as a country. I'm the leader of the country. I said, Mr. President, we need a comforter. We need somebody that will comfort this country. Joe, not even everyone believes we should. I saw Marjorie Taylor Green this week tweeting about how we need a national divorce, and she has done this before, and I looked it up. She's not the only one who has said that Ben Shapiro talks about maybe a friendly separation would be the way to go. Sarah Silverman is talking about. How can he get any worse than it is?

A USA1, USA2. Candice Owen says, you don't need a bloody war to succeed. You could just do it. Glenn Beck said he's for succession. Theirs. But this is how you get into that. Then who gets the name? Who gets the call themselves America?

And this is where we get to the point where we need the lawyers. We're talked about. We are going to have a national divorce. We bring in the lawyers. and decide who gets what. Would you like to hear... Okay. We're just going to decide, which side,

as they do in a divorce settlement. For example, the Democrats will get Broadway, the Republicans get Branson. That's just... That's just that. The Republicans will get the mullet, the Democrats get the man bun. Yes, that's...

The Republicans get the NRA, Democrats get NWA. Yeah, that's... Democrats get Barnes and Noble. Republicans get Barnes. Democrats get gluten-free vegan foods. Republicans get flavor. Democrats get the gay bars.

Republicans get the airport men's rooms. Republicans get honky-tunk-but-donk, and Democrats get what-ass pussy. I mean, that just... That seems completely fair. Republicans get daytime South Carolina, Senator Lindsey Graham. Democrats get his nighttime alter ego Myrtle Beach. And Democrats get a black Captain America,

and Republicans get a white jazz musician. All right. So you mentioned Ted Cruz. And you're right. Ted Cruz said, I hate it what Jimmy Kimmel said. But if the government gets in the business of saying what we, We don't like what you, the media, have said. We're going to ban from the airwaves.

It will end badly for conservatives. I would add, Ted, for the country, really, should be even more. But at least he did. He's right on. He's right on. And this is the point I'm always trying to make here. You need to talk to people. I've had Ted here. I've had them all here.

I did my podcast with Charlie Clark. Kirk, I'm glad I did. I'm glad I got to know him. I always say it. Everybody's a monster until you talk to them. Let me give you one story real quick. I have a boat on the river, Somic River, and I try to bring Democrats and Republicans together.

It's only a little boat on the river. There's a house boat. A boat on the river, yeah. Okay. Which I stay on when I'm there. Right. Things get bad, I can cut the ropes and go. You live in a boat on the river.

Yeah, I do. Just like every detective. Yeah. Anyway, let me just say. So one night I had people coming, okay, different Democrat and Republicans. I had Tom Harkin there from Iowa. Most beautiful person.

Good friend of mine. Pretty far left, but it's just a great guy. And then I'm talking to Tommy. He said, Joe, 30 years, I've never been on the river. And I can't wait for tonight. And it says, Tom, glad to have you. He gave him a glass of wine. About that time, Ted Cruz started walking down the ramp to get on the boat.

Tom wanted to jump off. And I said, Tom, no, no. We can't, no, no. We're in this now. Come on. Just have another glass of wine. Everything's going to be fine. So I said, untie the rope's quick.

We got to get out of here. So we started out, and I swear to God, before the night was over, the two were talking, became friends and did an amendment the next day. You're right. Nobody knows anybody. We spend no time together at all. You understand. we only have one bipartisan lunch a year.

He was going to jump off the boat? I'm not sure. He wanted off the boat. And I wanted to get out off the dock, okay? He wanted off the boat. Maybe I have a helicopter waiting to like to lift him. I guess, can I just say, like, I am, first of all, God bless you for doing this, work of trying to bring people together. And there needs to be more of that.

But let's not ignore the elephant. I mean, we have a precedent who, less than 24 hours after Charlie Kirk was assassinated, was blaming the radical left, was not trying to bring the country together, who has built a platform on grievance and division, who encourages virulent behavior and activity and rhetoric, and who has instilled in his entire administration a punitive streak, and who has given light and rise to people who, who, who want to highlight the most destructive parts of our society

and who want our differences to define us. Okay, but here's a test now. Now say this about the other side. Wait a second. Because it could also be said. But just do it, just as a test. Can you do it? Yes, Joe Biden did not do that.

Barack Obama did not do that. Okay, no. No, you're right. The presidents did not. Absolutely. But it matters. He is the head of the party, and he has co-opted the Republican Party.

But there's lots of people wearing free Luigi T-shirts out there. There is a form of a bunch of people who think, who are very comfortable with the idea of eat the rich. And if you are not the kind of person, we think is a, is a, absolutely that exists. Okay. Absolutely that exists. And that has to do with people feeling outside the system. They are filled with rage. We have a society that's splintering.

There are no common spaces anymore. We've lost community. People are tied up in social media instead of talking to each other. I mean, it's a whole host of things. and I'm not excusing that kind of behavior by a long shot. But let's not pretend, like the people in power, the people who run the legislative and the executive branch and are at the Supreme Court are fomenting division.

They are not trying to bring us together. Okay. I agree. You're not. It matters. It does. Of course. Let me ask you this. What do you think if just the Democrat says,

Mr. President, we want to work with you, help us calm this down, help us heal the country. We want to work with you. and secure the borders. We made a mistake. Can you work with me on legal immigration so we can have a country that we have today and the future?

That's what has to be done, but you can't just fight. The first thing you have to do is talk to him. I'm telling you. Talk to everybody. You've been with the president. You've been with the president. He's very accommodating. I saw this weekend, last weekend, Jay-Z and Beyonce had dinner in Atlantic City

with Jared Kushner. Ha! And Ivanka Trump, we not talk to them now either? Well, because it's an issue they care about, which is criminal justice reform. I mean, that matters. All the issues matter. And this is how any of them, if we're going to make any progress with this. But he's your president for three more years. He's my president. He's your president. He's all of our presidents. My job, if I'm in a position as a United States senator or a congressperson, is to do everything I can to make my president

successful, but never be afraid to speak truth to power. But you have to do it respectfully. You have to be respecting that office and the people that put you there, which is that we're self-governing. We made a decision. We chose you. If we chose you, then, I don't care. I'm not going to fight you. I want to work with you. I want you to succeed. And I said,

Mr. President, we need that leadership now. We need you to step up. And if the Democrats, I said, calling him names, it's just like throwing fuel on a fire. It's not going to make him any better. But he... Individually, when you were with him, I've been with him individually. Most accommodating, gracious. You can talk to him.

He's engaged. Much more self-aware than he lets on in public. They have this thing where when they go out in public, it has to be all war all the time. I'm not saying that's a good way to handle it either. I'm just saying it's more complicated than that, and you're good. They have all the power.

You're not going to do anything by just doing the, I mean, the left does have this bad attitude of go-no-contact. I mean, that's a big thing with your family. And my little family in the West Virginia, I was raised? my grandmother took everybody in. Back in the 50s, there was no social services. She made us little kids whitewashed. They believe in not talking to members of your family.

I mean, at the Emmys, would it have killed someone to get up there since they all want to talk about their politics? Would it kill somebody to get up there? Not give a speech about how much they liked Charlie Kirk, just to say we had a political assassination this week, and that's wrong. And they would have been boot off the stage because he was on the wrong team.

So you're not even allowed to say, that. Can you imagine if a left-wing person was assassinated that week, the whole show would have been about that? I just, I mean... Is that not true? Can't you admit that? I think this needs that Charlie Kirk assassination needs to be reframed as an issue of how our democracy actually functions and survives. We cannot be assassinating people who are different from us, who believe different things, full stop. Charlie Kirk's assassination is as bad for Democrats as it should be for Republicans. It is not okay.

Okay? And like everybody needs to get on that same page. And you can, you can, you do not have to agree with what he said or what he believed in, but you have to mourn what his death represents. Yeah. Right? And that is not a good thing. And him as a human.

But, but. As a human. But, but. Children of children. There has been so much hate and vitriol spewed from the top of this administration and is infected the entire party. Yeah. I understand why people don't have the.

stomach for it sometimes, but I'm telling you. Coming from both sides, it really is kind of it's not the same thing. It's not a concerted, it is not, there is not, there is a, it's, it's, they always take it to a worse level. I mean, yes, there was cancel culture on the left, but it didn't come this much from the government. Yes, Biden did put his thumb on the scale a little with COVID and make

social media not say some of the things that we now know are true about that, but generally they didn't do that. But Trump gets in office? Of course, they're always going to take it to level 10. But before we were out of time, I do want to ask you, because I think you're going to run for president again, probably. Okay, well, I'll take that as a... We'll take that as a non-denial.

Let me just tell you, our dear friend, this morning, this morning I had breakfast of our dear friend, Honourous Sorknager. And he and I were talking, he says, Bill's my good friend. He said, now Bill's going to be... He never has done this show. He's going to do your show. He wants to do your show. He's a great thing.

Really? Yes. I've asked him a billion times. And he said now... He's very busy for 30 years. He said, if Bill help you sell some books. He said, now, before he gets off, it's about selling the book. This book tells you exactly how most of us are raised.

We are who you are, but where you're come from, how you're raised and who raised you. And be able to set in a pinnacle of power and be able to look at the president. I said, Mr. President, I'm so sorry. I don't believe that. And I can't go home and sell it. It doesn't make sense. I wasn't raised that way. That's tough when the president says, the country needs you.

And I had to grab his hand back and say, the country needs you, Mr. President? needs us all, we're all in this together. And this little book here will tell you how to do it. My daughter, Heather Lover. Okay. I'm going to tell, Arnold's watching. He's going to watch tonight, so you're going to talk to Arnold. So you're trying to get the nomination of not the Democratic Party anymore.

Independent. I think there should be an independent party. I think there should be an American party. Because the Democratic Party seems to be going the way of the Democratic Socialist Party. That's a different party. Bernie Sanders always said, I'm not a Democrat. I'm a Democrat socialist. I caucus with the Democrats, he said.

He ran as a Democrat, but he's a Democratic soldiers. Now Mandami in New York, he is a Democratic socialist also, not a Democrat per se. We only have two parties, so you get in that. Bill, here's what you have to. Can I ask the question? Yes. Is this where the Democratic Party is going? Is the whole Democratic Party going to be the Democratic Socialist Party?

No. No, first of all, we are a long way away from 2028. We are not at 2026. We have not had any party primaries. We are talking about two people have very compelling messaging strategies and have gotten rightfully a lot of attention for them. But don't think that defines a Democratic Party, which, by the way, is at this point the pro-democracy party. It is a tent big enough to have Liz Cheney and AOC.

That is an unwieldy tent. it is very, very, very big. And part of the problem is the Democrats have so many people inside the tent and so much chaos happening on the political landscape, they do not know which direction they're marching in. But woe to anybody that is trying to write the epitaph for the Democratic Party.

Well, let me just say this. I was a Democrat all my life. They better figure out how they lost people like me, okay? And the only thing I have said, when you quit worrying about the working person, the working conditions, you're worried more about a person that's able-bodied and capable of working

that won't work versus me who will work, There's something wrong. And they lost them. All right. Gotta leave it there. Thank you very much. Time for new rules, everybody. New rules.

I think it's been a great last show. All right, new rule. Someone must tell the headline writers that InStyle magazine who wrote Priyanka Shropro goes topless under her plunging blazer that it's not topless if we can't see your tits.

As if all women aren't topless underneath their clothing. Not to start a lot of. scandal, but right now, I'm bottomless underneath these pants. Uh, new rule, just because penguins look like they're wearing tuxedos, does it mean they want to get married? There's been a lot of romanticizing penguin love in popular culture, but what scientists recently learned is most penguins are monogamous only for the season.

Then they find a new mate each year. Not to mention all the penguins who never marry because they get cold feet. Someone's going to get fired for that one. All right. New Rule, it's time we admit that one reason our kids' test scores are going down is that we no longer make playgrounds designed to weed out the stupid ones. New Rule, if ducking down when you get out of a helicopter is the only thing keeping the blade from chopping your head off, then maybe it's best just to wait to the fucking thing comes to a stop. Call me paranoid, but giant whirring blades scare me. I wouldn't even masturbate under it.

a ceiling fan. I mean, when you're on a plane, they don't even let you stand up until you're out a full stop at the gate, but helicopters, yeah, you're good to go. Watch your head.

Watch it roll off your neck, you know. New rule, stop expecting me to remember which of my 27 passwords went with your particular website, which I haven't visited since 2017. It's like I'm on a 70s game show called Locked Out.

Bill Maher from Rivervale, New Jersey, you get three guesses, or you get locked out. Okay. Uh, is it my birthday, college graduation year, exclamation point? Sorry, no. Okay, is it my pet's name, favorite sports team 69? No, not that. Well, then fuck off. Stop making me prove on me.

If the Russians stole my identity so they could pay my parking tickets, I give up. Their long game is much better than mine. And finally, new rule, we have to create a special five stages of grief just for mass shootings. The one we have, anger, denial,

bargaining, depression, and acceptance. That's fine for personal grief. But if it's political at all, we should acknowledge our five stages really are, someone on your side definitely did it. This theory is. I saw on the internet proves I'm right.

Fuck you. You're why everything is terrible. I know you are. What am I? And please don't be the same ethnic group as me. What I'd like to do now is prove to you what a fool's errand it is to try and connect today's brand of nut who commits political murder to the other side. Take Ryan Ruth. He's the lying in the Bush's

weirdo who's on trial now for attempted assassination of President Trump. And he's representing himself. Always a great strategy right up there with doing your own dentistry. He started his courtroom presentation by saying, Why are we here? Is it not to care for one another and to hold one another? Because nothing says care for one another like pointing a gun at someone's head while they're golfing.

Like all these killers, his politics was all over the map. He somehow supported both Bernie Sanders and Vivek Ramoswamy. two guys who you couldn't sit next to each other at a wedding. And his choice in 2016 was Trump, and then he tried to kill him. So I guess he's a swing voter. His politics are so in the weeds. He was literally in the weeds.

Trump's other would-be assassin, Thomas Crooks, a.k.a. McLeodden, had donated money to Democrats. So Republicans said, well, there you go. The liberal who took it too far and wanted Trump. Trump dead. Except investigators believe Crooks left hundreds of social media comments that were anti-immigrant. Then why shoot the most anti-immigrant president we ever had? And Crooks, a registered Republican, had also been researching Biden's travel schedule. So it looks like he would

have been just as happy to shoot him. Or Princess Kate, who it seems he'd been casing as a potential target. So he was the worst kind of lone gunman, a slut. On his voter registration, he checked, it's complicated. That's why this is such a tedious game, always hunting for evidence that whatever killer it is, had whatever politics are the opposite of yours, trying

to prove that because this week's chinless in-cell voted for Dr. Oz, it means something. It doesn't. What this is really about is a hole in the soul and broken families and gun glorification and getting brain raped by the internet.

David, the paper, was, according to the Chronicle, a hemp jewelry maker and pro-nudity activist from San Francisco. Would you peg that guy as likely to break into Nancy Pelosi's house and try to kill her husband with a hammer? Well, he did, because he also believed in QAnon and Pizza Gate and the Jews bankrolled Hitler. Because he's not Antifa or MAGA. He's Gaga. So was Cody Bomber, who set fire to the House of the Governor of Pennsylvania. as one does when you're fed up with politics.

Cody sure was. He once shared a meme that said both Democrats and Republicans would rather argue with each other than work to solve the problems we are facing. Exactly, Cody, a pox on both their houses, which I'll now start burning down. This is not about politics.

A few people really never had a bipolar girlfriend. Last month brought us the Minnesota church killer Robin Westman, born Robert Westman. So naturally the conservatives were like, see, trans. That's some of that out there, liberal shit. See, this is what you get. Well, no, that's not why we got what we got.

Trans was not the cause of this. Now, maybe Robin really was trans, or maybe trans was one in a series of solutions that she tried on to fix her chronic unhappiness. The joke is on you, if you think you can decipher someone's manifest. that made about as much sense as Britney Spears' Instagram. She displayed a Defend Equality sticker with the LGBT flag, which is very woke,

but then also spoke of her hatred for filthy Zionist Jews. But then again, so did everyone at the Emmys. And now Tyler Robinson. And again, we have to play the game where we each day find a tidbit about another confused, knowledge-free, I want you to hurt like I do, asshole, searching for a reason to do something insane so he can LOLL over watching the supposedly sane people try to make sense of it.

A kid brought up conservative in Utah who looks like every white kid who holds a rifle on a Republican's Christmas card. Shoots a conservative. Was he rebelling against his family? Very possibly. Confused feelings about his trans relationship? Not unlikely.

Plus, violence in movies? And getting used to murdering things from hunting and putting kids on Prozac when they're 12 and seed oils, and whatever. Politics? I wish this was about politics. It's actually so much worse. It's about nihilism, about not believing anything, about living in an online world.

That's one big inside joke about how stupid and useless is the America that conventional people of both parties are still living in. This kid cared about furries, not foreign policy. Because in America, life isn't black and white. It's 50 Shades of Cray. All right, that's it. I want to thank my guests this week and every week for the last 23 years, maybe.

Joe Manchin, Alex Radgear, Tom Holman. Clubbrandom drops every Monday on YouTube or less than whenever you get your podcast. Now go watch overtime on YouTube. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10 or watch them anytime on HBO on demand.

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