Red Scare - Ayatoldya

Episode Date: March 9, 2026

The ladies discuss the Iran War, Ryan Murphy's Love Story, and the women who regret having children.

Yeah. It's been a little while because we've been foraging for docket items that aren't about Iran. Yeah, we've been in Mercury Retrograde. Big time. Worst Mercury Retrograde ever. For sure. I was told that this one was about minor interpersonal and bureaucratic sniff. Fus, not war with Iran. A huge geopolitical

Purim blood moon. Are you kidding me? Happy international Women's Day. Gvasimova Marta. Americans really, some years I feel like people, I guess because no one cares about

feminism that much anymore. But I feel like in years prior, it was Americans were going to talking about it more. Yeah, it was. And this year, it seems ghettoized in the Russian-American community once again. Yeah. No one's really talking about it because we're at war with Iran. Right. There's other things going on. Yeah. Well, it did coincide this year with Titsmyss because the weather finally flipped and we had one nice day. So all the girls

were out in full effect. It's a, I associate it with springtime. Yeah. In general. So it's nice. Yeah, when it, when it lines up like that, the flowers and everything. We're liberating the women of Iran from the hijabs. So they can go on only fans. So they can get some real jobs. I have been off of X for Lent. For Lent. I went on today on my laptop.

And so kind of when the war started, I was sort of like absorbing the news. more ambiently. Yeah. Kind of Normy style. Right. And then today I did the Doom scroll. Yeah.

And it, well, you saw his son. So we killed the Ayatola. We attacked Iran for Israel. And everyone knows it. And then Rubio admitted it and then like try to roll it back in this bizarre way. Wait, did he try to roll it back? Yeah. When?

Or like, Trump did. And then Or Netanyahu then was like. like, ha, ha, ha. He like, he was like, imagine trying to force Donald Trump to do something. Wah. Yeah. The, like, anti-Semitism criers are like, you know, saying that's, like, conspiratorial to imply that, like, it's a zog war. It's a totally zogged war.

that no one wanted. Yeah. That we didn't vote for it's a betrayal. Yeah. And even if like. Nick Fuentes vindicated. Yeah. I mean even if it's true that it's not exactly like it's totally out of left field

because Trump does like have a history with Iran. Like he took out Soleimani in 2020. He struck the new. nuclear facilities last year. But he did that for Israel too. Unprecedented. Yeah. But this is really full on.

And, you know, initially I was trying to not be a doomer and look on the bright side because I was thinking like, okay, we shouldn't really use past historical examples because Trump is like a new type of leader. What do you mean with destabilizing the middle? He's Dana. But like they were projecting that it would last at least until into September. No.

It looks really bad. It's really bad. When even Howling Mutant has his doubts, you know it's bad. I mean, there's only so much plan trusting that I can do. Yeah. And I want to be like reasonable and cautious. And maybe there's something I'm not seeing, but I don't know. I don't see any. It's already bad.

I've tried to like stay off of social media because there's just like so much chaos and paranoia and acrimony. And it's like half of the TL are like warhawks, chest thumping over how like Trump can do no wrong. And the other half are former hardcore Trump loyalists saying that they're now voting Democrat and it's over. And everything just feels really wrong. brought in. I mean, it's over, but it's not like we can vote for Trump again. Yeah. So I don't see the utility in like, you know, keeping up the charade.

Like, you can just call a spade a spade. Yeah. We're taking a massive L here. Yeah, there seems to be like no real unified messaging on, you know, the purpose and objectives of this war. Marco Rubio is basically blaming Israel in a way that doesn't make the U.S. look very good. J.D. Vance is silent.

Hegseth is like all in. Hexsat's being a psycho. You know, we're hearing how people in the Trump inner circle are at each other's throats. Well, there's no pretense of regime change. There's no like WMDs. Yeah. It's, Iran doesn't really pose a threat to us.

Plus, we bombed the bunker not even that long ago. Yeah. We busted up their nuclear facilities. So they're already like weak. Right. And now we're lashing out against them again. And I think it's because Israel is so unpopular that like they're just taken their they're taking advantage of it while they can while they have like America under their control.

Yeah. And like there the two articles that I read about it that I liked were by Andrew Sullivan and Niccolo Soldo and they were kind of more or less opposed, but both made some good points. Andrew Sullivan says the war the Israelis want is therefore not a war. to make the Middle East a new free zone, which might be a legit U.S. aim. It's a war to ensure Israeli nuclear exclusivity in the region, allowing them to routinely attack their neighbors

with relative impunity. And he's really mad that this is, that this war is like a betrayal of the interests of the American public. Yeah. And that you get called an anti-Semite for even saying so. And I thought he was correct in pointing out that like the under 40s and the non-whites are not going to be swayed by

like Mike Huckabee or Lindsay Graham in the way that like who is going to be swayed. I mean, and then Niccolo, on the other hand, has an interesting take in that he points out that the aims of the U.S.

and Israel aren't exactly aligned and may even be at odds. How so? He says, this represents an immense risk to the global economy in the form of an oil shock inflation is a delicate point for Trump, but Israel is willing to risk it for its own objectives, meaning that it is more than happy to sacrifice Donald Trump in pursuit of its own aims,

is the American public cognizant of this fact. And his take on it is that, unlike many voices, critical of the history of the U.S. presence in the Middle East, he doesn't view Israel as the key driver of American actions in the region, though he says it's dishonest to negate, minimize, or even downplay the massive amount of influence Israel and its American supporters have on U.S. foreign policy. I mean, it certainly seems massive. Yeah. I get, yeah, it's like more multifaceted.

He's, but how, there's no reason. There's no real reason. Well, I think he's like persuaded by the argument that there's like a more 4D chess element that the U.S. is trying to like strategically choke off China's oil supply. No way. It doesn't even make sense. I'm going to be honest. I just like am not qualified to speak on this or informed enough to speak on it.

So I'm going to take the L and like stay out of it. I'm worried about the straight of Hormuz. And I feel they. The new Ayatollahs, the guy we killed son. And that makes me want to. Like family was killed. Because we just murdered his dad. And his wife.

And he's way young. Oh my. like it makes me want and apparently even more of a hardliner yeah it makes me of course and he's it makes me want to have a heart attack like when I think about it and it's so um it's just so vile and

oh and of course there was the um strike on the school in minab where like 160 school girls age 7 to 12 were killed um the little boy yeah waving goodbye to his mom and originally that was, well originally that was blamed on Israel and then the Americans blamed it on Iran and now it turns out that it's

most likely the Americans fault and they struck the school not once but twice it's so savage it's so upsetting it's so like because what I liked about Trump was that he made me feel patriotic and when I feel like ashamed and not even sovereign, you know, like we're doing it for another country. Yeah. All this. Yeah. I don't feel, that doesn't make me feel patriotic. Yeah, yeah. And as Monica said,

you know, nothing that Trump achieved in his two terms will really matter if his legacy is tarnished by a long and costly war. I think it's even worse than that. I think it's even worse than that it's not just that his legacy will be tarnished. And as much as I like Trump, I don't really care so much about his legacy. It's that his achievements will ultimately be for not, you know? Like, you have this like historic opportunity to, to roll back some of like the... I mean, he hasn't even accomplished that much. Let's be real. He's accomplished some really serious things, I think, in terms of like rolling back, like

decades of progressive governance or even making it a positive. possibility. And I would hate to see that squandered. It just isn't. It does not feel like he's made America great again. And I don't want it to go out like this, but it definitely seems like it's, it is real mercury retrograde hours.

I mean, yeah, like, okay, he's seen a lot of success in like sealing the border, posing a challenge to like the government and academic bureaucracies standing down some of like the cultural excesses of race and gender insanity. But the culture war is not worth it if we're at war with Iran. And if we're in a Zionist occupied government, Anna. It's not worth it for Zog war. Yeah. It just doesn't because the oil is going to get super expensive.

like it's apocalyptic. It really is. It's so bad. You realize that that's going to have like all these like second and third order effects on like travel routes and supply chains. Yeah. It feels really. And I like Iranians. Me too. Well, that's the other thing. I'm a big, um, uh, Persia head. They're a noble. Iran stand. They remind me because I, so I watch the Anthony Bourdain episode where he goes to Iran. And then I watched. a bunch of like 60 minutes interviews from like the hostage crisis and then like with the Shaw a little bit before the revolution. Yeah. Just to get up because I really not, I'm like Ted Cruz like how much I don't know anything.

So I'm just trying to catch a, you know, catch a vibe. And they remind me of Russians because they're like oppressed, soulful. They went from serfs to living as like subjects of like a brutal ideological regime.

And, but they have like their dignity and they're like, like they just the kebabs look great it just seems like it's so it's such a it's I'm just not convinced by the claim that Iran is like the number one global sponsor of terror because obviously they pioneered maybe like suicide bombings or their proxies did but like the vast majority of worldwide terrorism is committed by Sunnis, not Shias.

It's coming about Israel and false flag attacks, Anna. And I don't want, like, again, I'm, I'm a fan and supporter of the Iranian people. I don't really even care to go down that road, even though I do feel for them and sympathize with them because I'm more concerned about, like, the American people and how

this will blow back on them. And, you know, it is ironic that Trump not only ran on an anti-war platform, but also on an anti-immigration platform. And this could just unleash a new and unforeseen, like, refugee crisis that... From Iran? From the Middle East in general that the, that America and Europe are going to have to absorb. I wouldn't mind some more Iranians over here, honestly.

They seem to discreet and kind. I mean, not when their populace has been terrorized and their youth has been radicalized. I mean, they're all pretty much against the Ayatollah. Yeah, of course. They want, they just want to. There's no doubt that like. They just want to live their life. Yeah.

And Pete Hegseth wants them all to die. Yeah. And like, yeah, like Lindsay Graham is going around saying like, oh, we're going to blow them to smithereens. Why? Yeah. I do think that. like while Iran does not pose a direct threat to the U.S., they do pose a direct threat to Israel. Okay.

Which, again, really seems like what it's all about. For sure. And yeah, there's going to come a point if it hasn't already where like just U.S. and Israeli interests objectives collide. Well, they're all right. I saw the U.S. is pissed because Israel bombed some like oil storage facilities. and now there's like toxic rain. But it's there, it's, it's a mess. Yeah.

It's really depressing. Yeah. And yeah, the timelines, it's, I'm not happy with my logging on today. Yeah. I'm just, I'm like going to stay off of Twitter. And like there was that video going around of Curtis Yarvin, giving some interview that he's getting a lot of flack for, because people are calling him like a doomer and defeatist and demoralize or a subversive Jew

where he talks about like, oh, you think mass immigration is bad already? You don't know what mass immigration is going to look like. I'm like a single issue voter in this sense, like my issue is mass immigration. I think that like what's at stake is Western civilization. And he's just telling it like it is. I don't think that he's being like... I didn't see the clip. Yeah.

But he's just spitting facts. But that sounds true, I guess. But honestly, I voted for Trump. I wanted the Ukraine were to end. Yeah. I voted for America first. Yeah. I don't, I didn't vote for a war in the Middle East.

Yeah. I mean, I didn't think that I wasn't holding Trump to some, like, purist isolationist like but can we circle back to Greenland can we like get back can we like do that

instead? Yeah let's get back to annexing Greenland instead of carpet bombing Tehran oh it feels I mean I wasn't super sentient

during the Iraq war but it seems worse I don't know about that I mean it's too soon to say but I don't mean durationally. I just mean like, you know, everyone knew the WMDs were fake, I guess. Yeah. But there was still like a pretense. Yeah. And I felt at least like the neocons of the Bush era still felt a need to like justify themselves, which seems to be like.

Yeah. With all this gobbledly gook about spreading, spreading democracy and liberating women. Like they had at least they had like a noble lie. And we don't even. And we don't even. even have that. We don't have nothing. We have no reason to be there except Israel. And no one likes that. Yeah. And Israel at this point in time is probably the most isolated and disliked globally than it's ever been. Yeah. It's their last ditch effort.

And BB's rabid. Yeah. And they seem to be facing a pretty uncertain future. I guess this is good for them in the short run, but maybe not so good for them in the long run. They worship death, so. It's hard because I'm so emotional. You know, I'm so easily, like, disappointed or radical, you know.

Yeah. I'm like, it's just too hard. Yeah. And I saw somebody talking about how they were previously miffed at Michael Tracy for refusing to take aside and being a nonpartisan, but increasingly his POV is looking like it's the right one. What do you mean? Like, because, you know, he's not beholden to anyone and the right accuses him of being like a leftist and the left accuses him of being like a fascist. I mean, yeah, you just can't trust politicians. Well, yeah, that goes without saying, but. But I did have trust in

Trump. I saw a clip of Alex Jones getting all almost like he was a crying. What is his stake in all of this? Well, now he's saying that Trump's being manipulated. He's kind of like doing more of a schizo cope where like the deep state is misleading him. Uh-huh. But yeah, he was just kind of like, I needed this.

I believed in MAGA. Yeah. And like, I just feel so betrayed basically. What's Tucker on about? I haven't been following along with that. He had Saugger on. He's, you know, he's anti-Zog. Yeah.

He's at odds with Trump right now. That's all I know. He's been kicked out of MAGA. Trump said he's not even MAGA. But I feel like Trump's not MAGA. Yeah. I don't know. He's the one that's not maga.

Unless, like, I'm not seeing something and there's like some long game. that we as mere civilians are not like privy to. I'm sure there is, but it doesn't justify already this level of like waste, dysfunction, carnage, suffering. And it's going to reverberate, you know, it's like every day that it goes on. It's like, of course, yeah. Gets worse. Yeah, I saw a clip of Steve Bannon on the war room and he said,

I'm not a wildly enthusiastic supporter of this war. If Iran ends up being a chaotic mess, I don't care. We have 25 million illegal aliens here. Trump talks about a World War II-style happy ending. Israelis don't want that. They'd much rather have a mess in Iran. I guess I more or less sympathize with that position. I mean, yeah, Trump's, like,

actual deportation numbers are on par with, like, Obama's. Yeah. You know? we can get a Democrat that's moderate on immigration and accomplish the same thing. That's the thing. I don't even know about that because like, you know, the, the Groypers are doing their usual bit about how they're voting Democrat now and all that. But like, I don't think we even need to get to that point because if Trump has already

lost the confidence of the base. Well, Trump can't run again. Right. But I'm saying this puts like the succession of MAGA under threat. and probably puts the ball in the court of the Democrats for the next few terms. I think that might have happened anyway, honestly. Because he doesn't really have a good successor exactly. But it's a long, when people talk about new scum and stuff,

it's like, there are three more years and a lot can change. You know, mostly things don't change, but then they do. And like, you have to kind of do think about. just stalled of things. I probably just won't vote because I wasn't really much of a voter before. And if I don't feel like really animated to, I don't see the point. Yeah, I mean, that's a reasonable position, but it's also like a very depressing position. I'm, I mean, did you vote for anyone besides Trump? In the last election? Yeah, I typically just vote like Republican down ticket now. I mean,

they're all bad, you know. I'm not like a... But in like a... What's the last president you voted for? Trump. But before that. The previous one, I voted third party or independent. I didn't vote for Trump in 2016.

I didn't vote. See, I haven't voted at all. I didn't vote in 2021 or whatever. The last... 2020. Oh, in 2020, I've never voted for Trump. So in 2020, I voted for Trump in 2020. yeah I can't remember if I did in 2020 actually my point is it wasn't a priority for me and it's

probably just not going to not be one again and now the Trump's not I shouldn't say now because already he couldn't have ran again but it's not we can't replicate that kind of thing yeah that kind of lightning and a bottle quality like I knew that that was going to be the case and whoever the Republican successor to Trump was would be like less of a firebrand, less of like a, like a man of history or whatever. But like I wasn't expecting like a Trumpian Reich, but I was hoping that they would put down roots to at least try to secure to ensure the health and longevity of the MAGA movement. Right. I mean, we'll see. but like I said there's one you can only do so much plan trusting yeah and yeah like of course I have trust in

you the ultimate plan yeah broadly speaking um in God's plan that's what I mean but in the short term it does seem bleak well it just seems that whatever you or I may think think that there has been a lot of confidence lost in the MAGA movement. And can you really blame people? Even as, you know, again, Michael Tracy has been pretty like bellicose belligerent on this. And he has been like contrarianly pushing back on the people who say that Trump betrayed his base with this action by saying that like, actually he's always, he's, he's always toyed with this idea more or less.

Because he says all sorts of things. There's all, you know, there's also clips of him. It's, I get it. Yeah. We have some, him saying at some point, like, I'm going to, I'm going to obliterate them or whatever, like two years ago. Sure. Yeah.

We didn't think he was going to do it. Yeah. And now people are kind of like teasing the idea that he might be thinking of like dropping a nuke on the asses, which I don't really think it'll lead to that. But, you know, there is a. non-zero chance. That would be devastating. I still get upset about Hiroshima.

I do. Nagasaki, I get sad. I think about the loss and just like the bomb is so. You're like, oh, it's like it is satanic. It's just like an instrument of like total death. There's something so like luciferian about it that like does, you know, Oppenheimer's. It doesn't seem like it shouldn't even exist.

The fact that we've ever used it, I feel like, it's a stain on our history. And to use it again for no reason would be, like, tragic. Yeah. And like, you know, as Niccolo pointed out, like if you strip away the moral aspect and the domestic considerations and look at it objectively, and by the way, he's not a fan of this war,

that it's the best time to hit Iran because they're because we've already degraded their nuclear isolated yes sure duh I don't really

like the messaging is very confused because if they don't exactly pose a threat then why strike them if not to destroy them for Israel

100% I don't know how anyone can even deny that yeah when I was like barely even looking at the news I was like, fuck,

really is real? Yeah. It just is like the Occam's razor. You don't have to like contort yourself into some thing about like China's oil supply or whatever.

It's not that. It's Israel. Yeah. I don't, I mean, I'm, I guess I'm prepared to to stay open-minded

and like, uh, consider the idea that there are other, considerations at play, but... I mean, I'm all, you know, I respond to information as I get it. So this is the information I have. And like the other thing is like I said to you, girls, like as a woman and a mother,

I'm very easily propagandized by the deaths of children. I mean, it really like breaks my heart. And it would be nice, of course, if the administration could fess up. up to the school incident and not try to save face. But of course they won't. But why even it's already so unpopular? You may as well just. But I get it.

It's all built on lies. Yeah. And I think like you can say that in any war, there are going to be extremely unfortunate civilian casualties of women and children and other innocents. Yeah, war is hell. That's why civilized. societies try not to wage it.

And yeah, it is like, I got, I understand Nicolao's point how strategically it's a good time to strike Iran if you want to strike Iran, but the problem is no one wants to strike Iran. Yeah. And I'm also sympathetic to the point that it's much harder to get things done domestically than it is internationally because you're like curbed by all sorts of like internal opposition forces. I'm not sympathetic to that point at all. Because the why are you accompli like, what are you accomplice?

Abroad. Yeah, but just you're, there's no point in just doing something because you can. Yeah, but my feeling, yeah, because you can't do something at home. You should try harder to do something at home. Well, yeah, if you're going to go big or go home, try to do something at home versus abroad.

And if you're going to do something abroad, you better have a, you should have a good reason that benefits America. And this has none of that. Yep. Um, you see, you've been watching Love Story. Yeah.

my personal around is Ryan Murphy's love story you don't like it um no I agree with you that it's like mid but watchable I'm well the more you watch something the better it gets yeah time sunk home syndrome yeah time sunk fallacy it's called um and I'm watching I watch the whole thing yeah or like as it's coming out yeah so now I'm gripped now I'm like it's a atmospheric master me. And in our like, like zombie backwards,

stagnant culture, we get to watch this like dead people, porno. Yeah. Which is what it is. We get to watch these corpses recreate the paparazzi photos that we

know and love. I love that. It is like a void porn slob. It's better than slob. it gets like the pilot I think it's not fair to judge the merits of a show on yeah I agree with you like we watch that like segment of like Maureen callahan and Megan Kelly where she was railing against the expository dialogue um who is that lady why what's going why does she hate Carolyn Bissai Kennedy so much I don't know good question like what is going on because I sent you today yeah she wrote an article because there have been it's been a real like

cultural flashpoint that's like sparked all these like they had like a JFK Jr. lookalike contest in the park today. Did they? In New York, yeah. But yeah, Maureen Collahan in the Daily Mail wrote

the real Carolyn Beset was a violent, deeply dispersed cokehead with a humiliation fetish. The lies must stop. Her friends are telling the truth and it's ugly. And then her friends aren't really, there's no tea really spilled in the article. She didn't have any friends. She didn't have no friends. Yeah. She says if the truth about her were more widely told, more commonly known and accepted, no woman in her right mind would idolize her. That's not true. She is what modern women idolized. She's a volatile. People like that she's a humiliation fetish.

Yeah. People like that she beat up her boyfriend. Yeah. And got multiple abortions. it's not her classic minimalist style it's not the tortoise shell headband and her perfectly platinum blonde hair in his now out of print memoir Carolyn's ex-boyfriend

Calvin Klein model Michael Bergen writes that Bassette had two abortions both babies his and confessed that she lost a third pregnancy while dating JFK Jr. She was selfish she went after her close friend's boyfriend she told a CK colleague who worshipped her to dump an otherwise great boyfriend

because he didn't make enough money. Her mantra was, date them, train them, dump them. Which is in the show, by the way. One man,

she dated before JFK Jr., a working actor whose brother went on to television fame to dinner with her friends where she would proceed to mock him to his face for being so besotted with her.

Did you see, did you get to the episode yet where he gets the letter? No. So he's out playing football with his boys. And then when he gets home, there's a letter,

anonymously penned letter in his duffel bag about like basically that Marine, Marine's article about how she's like a conniving and he like shows at her and then she freaks out. She's like, how could you believe this about me?

Totally flips the script. He's like, baby, I'm so sorry. I made a mistake. She starts like ignoring him, icing him. He's sending her flowers. He's chasing her. She won in the end, except she tragically died. Yes.

Which is a sort of winning of its own. I mean, I think, you know, the most romantic thing about CBK and JFK Jr. was that they died tragically in a fiery plane crash when they were young and beautiful.

They would have been so embarrassing. She probably would have stayed kind of icy and cool. Yeah. She probably would have for it into politics and like, you know, he's their better preserved in amber the way they are. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

She would have like tried to have some kids with IVF when she was like 43 years old. I bet she didn't abort his baby. Yeah, who knows. It's all like hearsay. Because she's got an error to the Kennedy fortune. Yeah. Maureen Callahan, yeah, really, really, really, really took a hating to the dialogue.

Because it was, yeah, like, really, like, on the nose. And unsophisticated, which, you know, as you and others have pointed out, is kind of what you have to do in a pilot episode to establish, like, the characters and the pacing. There's, like, a point where... I bet episode one of the sopranos, it's Tony being like, I'm run the mafia. I'm the underboss of the New Jersey mob. And I answer to. And you're my therapist, Dr. Melfi.

There's, like, some point where some... I forgot who the character was, but he says, like, they said the same shit when your father appointed me U.S. attorney of the Southern District. 30 years ago. It's good. It's good to know what's going on, you know. Yeah. I don't, that really didn't like stick in my cross so much.

I kind of like accepted it as a fact. Yeah. We're set in the scene. Yeah. I think what, I don't know if this bothered me, but it dawned on me that this series and maybe just like Ryan Murphy's work in general

is like a, a great example of that famous untranslatable Russian word bochelist, which means like pretentious vulgarity basically. Yeah. But that's what's good about it. Sure, yeah. It's got like a classy veneer, but it is still kind of like tabloid oriented. Yeah.

And it's got the great, you know, New York in the 90s. It's just a fun, like, atmosphere. Well, the vulgar part for me was that a lot of that, like, like, set design, scene design, um, costume design, et cetera, didn't really land because it looked way too contemporary. Like, the city looks like it does now more or less. I thought it did the... They did a good enough. job.

Maybe, yeah, the outfits, his were better than hers, but it dawned on me like the, like the styling and the proportions were off. Like her clothing was a little bit too tight and a little bit too tacky. It's not like perfect. It was very Eritzia coated. A little bit, but not as bad as the bar was set really low when they put out those press photos that we talked about on a prior episode. But there is, it's, it does feel to me like a testament to how like there was something

special about them that can't be replicated. Like you can make the exact same dress, the wedding. I'm talking about the wedding dress because the last episode. But and like yeah with like the candlelight it almost kind of looks like her in a moment but then yeah and the photos are well done enough but there there's an episode where they get in the fight in the park right the famous paparazzi shots and i thought sarah pigeon did a lot of really good hair acting where she's like putting in a ponytail taking it down fighting but like messing with her hair the whole time so that it's like because yeah when in those photos like she's hugging him ponytail they're

in the park it's down. Like, just pragmatically, she must have been doing something like that. Like, I think she does have her mannerisms down pretty well. Yeah, I would agree with that. And so it kind of gives an impression. Like, A for effort, she's trying. But the real thing is just it's never going to be that good. Yeah.

And you can expect that. And you almost can't fault any, like, modern recreation for that. Because there's just, like, some stuff that's, like, intangible, lost in translation, whatever. There's a platonic ideal and this is like striving towards it. Yeah, and this is like a cheap facsimile, but it's like fun and watchable and whatever.

The casting, I think, didn't land for me. It's funny that the actress's name is Sarah Pigeon, nominal determinism. She's got kind of a bird like. Yeah, she's like, I guess, very pretty and symmetrical, but her features are almost, like too bland and delicate.

And gray, she's like a pigeon. She's like a hot, like, she's like every hot girl that you see in the Easter West Village. And he's like every hot guy that you see in the Easter West Village. They're like a West Village couple. He's hot. He looked gay. Yeah. Which, you know.

But neither of them is as magnetically attractive as the original. They're just not. No, I agree. Carolyn, and I think she does a good, you know, I do think she's well cast, but yeah. Yeah, like an actor is basically never going to have the charisma of like a real charismatic person because they lack. The thing that made Carolyn special was her like intact sense of self that she projected

Which was like entirely false and fabricated because apparently she was like a domineering insecure co-core. This show does portray her in an extremely positive light. Yeah. I know I know this bitch wasn't like that. Yeah, as a super like cool composed boss bitch who knew what she wanted and got it. There's a really funny part where she rises through the ranks of the Calvin Klein management and is almost solely responsible for discovering Kate Moss. She's like, this is the reject pile.

Like they're looking through model photos and they're like contemplating like Cindy Crawford or something. And she's like, it's her. We need her. And it's like a black and white like headshot of Kate Moss. Yeah. But is that not true? I don't think it happened that way. I didn't fact check that one.

But yeah, there's a lot. So, Darryl Hannah wrote a little op-ed in the times of lamenting how poorly she's portrayed in the show. Dree Hemingway plays. I thought she was very, I was shocked by her performance. I was like, did they like de-ageify Darrell Hannah? I was like, she looks just like her. She was incredible compared to everybody else. She's fantastic.

egg. But yeah, she really nailed like the Spurge energy. Mm-hmm. And this kind of like needling actressy person. She's like, John, like really, really good. But yeah, not kind of a villain on the show. Yeah, which is understandable. Daryl Hannah had a real problem with that.

But obviously, because she claims she received threatening messages. Bitch, no, you did it. No, you didn't. How, who's getting in touch with you? you. Like, who's thinking of you? If I tried to send you a message, I wouldn't know how to find you. Like, who is threatening you?

Um, yeah, she, she's basically upset about her portrayal in the series because she's portrayed as like this brady stuck up, self-absorbed, whiny Cokehead who's like throwing parties in his loft. And he's upset because, uh, um, she's inviting all sorts of like strangers and never do wells into his inner sanctum to blow lines off of his family heirlooms. And while I can sympathize with her for, you know, feeling like jilted and blindsided, it's a really bizarre thing to react to, especially given her age and her intelligence at this point, supposedly.

I get it. Like you want to set the record straight. But she's doing herself no favor. She's like really, you know, not getting ahead of any. of the rumors. She's not beating the bitch allegations by being a bitch about how she's portrayed on the show, which I get like, yeah, I'm higher IQ than some people. So I can watch a show and be like, uh, this is, you know, a fictional.

This is a narrativeization, a dramatization of the real life events as they occurred. I like understand intellectually that Daryl Hannah wasn't like a villainous person. that she's meant to be like a foil to Carolyn. And she's smart enough to realize that herself. In that essay, she says, storytelling requires tension. It often requires an obstacle. But a real living person is not a narrative device.

There is also a gendered dimension to this thinking. Popular culture has long elevated certain women by portraying others as rivals, obstacles, or villains. Isn't it textbook misogyny to tear one woman down in order to build up another? Kind of no. It's textbooks like screenwriter.

Yes, I don't, to take the gender out of it. It's not about that. Yeah, they obviously, yes. They want to give you a positive account of Carolyn Beset, so they have to create some negative foils, which may or may not be JFK's prior romantic conquests. Yeah, no shit. It's really nothing personal.

Move along. But again, I get it. Maybe, you know, sure. I understand why she would be like missed. And she's allowed. They did, you know, fictionalize her in this show and a light that she didn't like. And, you know,

so she does get to say her peace. I mean, it is funny how she was diagnosed with autism, which I guess she walked back later. But like, she's clearly like not a real autist. She's stealing autism valor because real autists, like Michael Tracy,

don't give a shit about how they're portrayed in the media. So true, Anna. Such a good take. What are you talking about? A real artist would never write an article like that. Oh. About all the charity, how they don't do cocaine and do charity instead. They would be on Twitter writing threads about how a regime change is not an adequate explanation for what's going on in the Middle East.

And then Jack Schlossberg keeps making statements about how the shows. As much like his uncle, he's a huge drama queen who courts the paparazzi. What did he say? I didn't read that article. He said a bunch of stuff. Like, he's been chiming in about how it's like grotesque and exploitative and how like this is his family and stuff. Well, it is grotesque and exploitative. But so is your family, by the way.

And that's like the show is kind of about that. It's about how the Kennedys like don't belong to themselves. Yeah. And so you have to just let us have it. Camelot isn't, you know, and you're like such a low tier Kennedy. Yeah. It's, I think I said this in the group chat, but what's crazy about the RIS levels of JFK Jr. and CBK is that they already were like NEPO.

Yeah. And then like this new crop of Kennedy's, I guess just Jack Schlossberg. Like the way the Riz is. just drops off so quick. Yeah. You had JFK. Then JFK Jr. Not as, you know, not presidential.

But hot. Hotter. Like, you know, had his own thing going on. Then you have Jack Schlossberg. Uh-huh. Tick-Tocker. Yeah. Like not just bringing nothing to the table.

Yeah. And has that like crisis actor. Barely, if that. Gersh client. Damn. that makes one of us yeah I guess on that note yeah I guess on that note

my big issue with like the dialogue wasn't the exposition which is forgivable enough it was like this very like sinister homosexual coded thing where like the characters are constantly discussing

their romantic prospects which doesn't happen in real life And also their media portrayals, which also, I think, doesn't really happen. I think it does if you're hounded by paparazzi. Sure, but I doubt, like, there's a scene in a garden where Jackie O. and JFK Jr. are, like, having this, like, in-depth conversation about what kind of woman he can hope to get, given his reputation. This family, Jack.

You'll always be a Kennedy. Yeah. And her like weird warbly voice. That was like the worst casting by far. Naomi Watts. I like I like to see her. Sure. I'm happy she's getting the work.

Yeah. You know who else is pretty good? It's the the Meryl Streep daughter, Mamie Gunner, as Caroline. Caroline, yeah. She's really, She's good.

Honestly, if I were, if I were yet, she looked the part. Keep watching the show. The fight in the park. Awesome. The wedding. But I'm not even such a massive like CBK fan. Yeah.

I like her. I think she's stylish. Yeah. But all the fanfare that's like sprung up about. I feel like every article being written now, even in like reputable outlets is like, how to dress like Carolyn Bissette Kennedy. and then like looks maxing explained like the in cell call like they're all like explainers about

what mauging means or like like slop about carol and beset kind of yeah and like the new yorker like the tea the bar is on the floor I know um it's like really depressing I am like um ride or die like long term Carolyn Bessette. fan. I like her. I've always liked her. I've always thought she was like one of the most stylish and beautiful women alive. That's why I like her. I don't really care that she was a co-core or a domestic abuser. Makes me like her more. I don't, I don't find that element of her character, whether or not it's true particularly attractive. Doesn't matter. But yeah. Yeah, I don't like her for her moral qualities. Yeah. I like her because she wore yoji.

And what do Pollya call her? Like a prowling lioness. Yeah. And she really, she does. What is her sign? She's a Capricorn. Oh, true. She says it in the,

or her character says it in the show. She could have been a Leo. Yeah. He, is he a Leo? Maybe. She's probably got a Leo moon or rising or something. She's like the feared female Capricorn. Very powerful, honestly.

I know he's November 25th. That's also a cap or a sage? A Scorpio or a Libra? I don't know. God, it's crazy how much we talk about it. Or bad on it. Yeah. I'm looking.

Yeah, the Daryl Hannah article was really outrageous because then she goes into He's a sage. Okay, yeah. A sexy. A vegetarian. Yeah. Sexy. Loves the finer thing.

things. I think that actor is hot. It's adventurous and risk-taking. Even though he's clearly gay for pay like every other actor, but I like don't, I don't love him because JFK Jr., even though I guess if I were to psychoanalyze him, which I don't really care to do, he does seem like a shameless media horror. So the, the show's portrayal of him as the guy who's like on the fence about being publicly scrutinized, seems like fake and gay because he clearly ate it up and they both did I think that was the nature

of their union was that they understood how hot they looked together they understood the power that they had over like the public consciousness and they like milked it for all it was worth even as their relationship was like falling apart at all times and so much of her mystique yeah and like revisionism I guess except for Maureen. What's her last name? Callahan. Yeah, she's like the Michael Tracy of Kansas Kennedy.

She's carrying the torch. Yeah, she's like when Michael Tracy lashes out at Whitney Webb, who I still, I don't really know who that is, but he really hates her and has like an axe to grind against her. But I think it might have even been in vogue. It was like some article that was like

how fashion is armor. Yeah. And like she gets really mystified as this kind of like, really discrete person and like that's why she dressed like that because she like didn't want to be seen and like I think maybe she even believed that about herself but she clearly I wouldn't be surprised if she was a Leo Virgo cusp honestly maybe because she's I mean she's a capricorn obviously but I feel attacked well you know what I mean like that tension of like wanting the discretion but then

also wanting the attention being a huge attention horror yeah yeah and I'm sure she was very like plotting and calculating about how to, like if she was truly, truly private, she wouldn't have pursued that relationship. Yeah, and Callahan claims that she essentially, not Daryl Hanna,

but Carolyn Bessette really wormed her way into the Kennedy family mythos and like sought him out and wanted to trap him into marriage. Again, I don't know how true this is.

but it seems plausible. I mean, I think there probably was genuine love between them. Sure. I want to believe in a love story. Riley calls it the fighting show because there's always women yelling.

Yeah. And I'm like, please, can we watch it? He doesn't know who Carolyn is like, it even is, doesn't care. But she, I mean, what's her background? She's like, Connecticut. Connecticut Catholic, who,

was a lowered tier Nepo baby? No. Not even. Her parents divorced. I imagine. She was like upper middle class but didn't really have a pedigree. Is that the idea and wanted to catapult herself into the upper echelons of New York

Society? Because, you know, like frankly, she understood that she was like a beautiful and stylish and intelligent woman. She knew that about herself and she wanted the best for herself. Which wasn't. don't think she was as much of a fame whore as JFK Jr. Like I think she, yeah, held herself in high esteem. Yeah.

And, but was like in a very capricornian way kind of just maximizing her potential. Yeah. You know, like she would have been content in another relationship and another, you know, as long as it was like kind of the best outcome. Mm-hmm. Like, I do probably think she was pretty calculating. Yeah, I'm sure. And it's like...

But I don't think she, like, had it in her mind the whole time that she was wanted to be famous or be part of like a political dynasty or anything like that. Yeah, I think she was probably just like landing on her feet and like being anti-fragile and like exploiting, leveraging the opportunities that became available to her if she went. But she was like a shop girl. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that's not even see.

Like, there is enough. Like, I am probably just going to internalize this show is true. Yeah. I mean, like, did you know Daryl Hannah showed up at Jackie Kennedy's awake? It was being a huge bitch. Well, that was like, um, Daryl Hannah's big objection because she's concerned that in the digital era entertainment and gossip become quote, collective memory because while physical media degrades, online lies and were so true, queen.

I mean, yeah, that's why I like can't begrudge her for wanting to at least like get some. It's, it's PR, you know. you like have to say something or else like the worst version just proliferates. Yeah, but I think like she's also a little bit confused and lying to herself about what her real motivations are because if she really didn't want this negative portrayal of her to persevere, she would have said nothing because realistically the show is a blip on the radar and it's not going to become like a timeless prestige drama. It's going to be something that like people watch. Yeah, the first three episodes of love. fun and enjoyable. Like nobody's going to be,

nobody's thinking of Daryl Hannah in this equation. No. She's kind of like a side no. I think really what she's thinking about Daryl Hannah. What she's really offended about isn't that they portrayed her in a negative light. It's that they didn't like include her enough and that she was kind of sideline. Probably. There's that great piece of dialogue where J.F.K. Jr. says,

despite what you may think, Mom, Daryl actually really. cares what you think of her and she responds like she's an actor she cares what everyone thinks of her jack so true um which she clearly does because she wrote this little article yeah that's written in this like very um like indignant but also like kind of sober and sedate tone like she's taking great pains to not sound super like aggrieved and hysterical she's trying to sound neutral and objective and make it about like the harms of like digital media or something. I know. She's like talking to chat GPT and it's like, you're right.

There is a gendered element. Yeah. Just like affirming her. Yeah. I didn't realize that Daryl Hannah was married to Neil Young and like stole him from his ex-wife. Well, in doing my not very autistic of her. Well, that's the thing I didn't know about.

Hannah until she wrote this article and then I like looked her up. And then someone on Reddit was like Neil Young's wife of 30 plus years was like dying of cancer and he cheated on her with Daryl Hannah and now they're married and like I'm like that's now that's Ryan Murphy. Let's go love story season two. Just totally eviscerate Terlana's character, make a whole show about how she's a monster. Yeah. It ends with Neil Young rage quitting spot.

because they platform Joe Rogan. And yeah, and she's like a environmental activist. She like, yeah, lists all of her like. That part was so causes and stuff. Yeah, she says for decades, my work has focused on environmental advocacy, documentary filmmaking, and animal assisted therapy for seniors living with dementia and Alzheimer's. So that reminds me of my professional life is built on compassion and responsibility.

The animal stuff is such a red flag and reminds me of Nicola Pence, Brooklyn Beckham's way, how she freaked out at Victoria Beckham for not helping her with her like dogs affected by wildfire business or whatever she was doing. Like whenever some like weird tacky bitch is like, and I work with animals, you're like, mm. Yeah. Okay. Because you're like horrible to people. Yeah. you're using your like literal pet cause to browbeat and bully people into like acquiescing to your demands.

Yeah. Are you just like, what should I do with my life to seem like a good person? And then you're like, I like animals. Reputation is not about ego. It is about the ability to continue doing the meaningful work I love. Like any career doing good work requires an intact reputation. This is why I am choosing to stand up for myself. now.

What work are you doing that's going to be compromised by Ryan Murphy's love story? Yeah. And it's like if you are truly an activist and advocate, then you should probably just allow your work to speak for itself and not complain about it in an op-ed. All true. But I got to say again, I do get it. I'd probably do a similar thing. I get it because I'm such a hypocrite.

And every time somebody attacks me, I'm like, no, you don't understand. I am trying to school people. on the mechanisms of the narcissistic psychology, which we are all gripped by. It is not a moral referendum. I get it. I'm like, I wasn't that bad at adult beginners tennis class.

By the way, that did root that, really. I hate that guy. Wait, when the guy, like, wrote a tweet about... It was when I got dropped from Gersh, which I got to stop talking about, honestly, I swear I'm not up. obsessed with them not coping.

But when all the Nick Fuentes stuff happened, everyone was piling on me. And some gay guy who I was in a tennis class with was like, she was in my tennis class, my adult beginner's tennis class, and she was the most uncoordinated woman in all of Manhattan. And then she never showed up again. And by the way, I didn't show up because that's when I went to the hospital with Hib. So it wasn't my fault. and I wasn't that bad in tennis class.

Well. But this fact. Did you clock him at the time? Not as... Did you know who he was? I knew he was gay, so I figured he might have known who I was, but I thought it was all good.

We were all just trying to learn how to play tennis. I don't know if I got to kick me when I'm already down. I know. So true. And I bet, yeah, watching it and seeing herself, like, you know, she is portrayed really badly. Yeah, but it's... But I did divorce that in my marriage.

Like I didn't. Me too. I first of all, yeah, like you said, completely forgot. Daryl Hannah was even a character on the show. Moving on. Yeah. Trying to get to the tragic, fiery plane crash. Right.

Don't care about Daryl Hannah. So it didn't retain any of that. But when I was watching it was like, ooh. But I think that's so messy. That's really what bothers her at the end of the day that she's kind of an accessory, not the main attraction of the show. Well, on that note, should we talk about the women who regret having children? Yeah.

who also regret being accessories. They're just like me for real. So this was a little while ago. But it was in the cut. There was an article. Yeah. That was basically just kind of like anonymous testimony from women who regret having children.

Yeah. And it went from bad to worse because it starts off with, well, there's three of them. Yeah. And here I'll give the little breakdowns. Did you notice that both that article, The Cot I Regret Having Children and the,

what outlet was the How Should a White Woman Writer Be? Vulture. Vulture. Yeah. Okay. So this is all like under the auspices of New York Magazine. Both of the girls who wrote those articles have Indian names? Well, the one who wrote the Vulture article is,

like some, she's Tomo, which is a kind of Indian. And she writes, she's written some books of her own that look like real like diaspora kind of garbage. Diaspora slop. Yeah.

But I was thinking we'll circle back to that. But how that chick is kind of like, It's funny because she's kind of like a Salman Rushdie type of bitch, but she's putting the fatwa on Madeline Kat. For being white and not deferential enough to identity grievance politics. This is what you have to look forward to with the Iranian war.

So there's three of them. I gave up everything I liked about my life to make children fit into it. A 34-year-old Rhode Island mom of a six-year-old and a three-year-old. everyone who wanted me to have a child knew they weren't going to lose much while my freedom and identity went down the toilet, a 30-year-old European mother of a three-year-old. Everything I went through was just like no big deal because the baby is here. Your existence doesn't matter. A 27-year-old, North Carolina mother of a one-year-old.

But it really does go from like the least to most narcissistic because the first one is like regretful and unhappy with her decision, but has more or less come to terms with it and is doing the right thing. And then the last one is separating from her husband and leaving him to be a single dad, which she says she's guilty about, but not guilty enough to stay. And she's basically like a walking, talking advertisement against adoption. She's adopted, not her kids. Right. But she makes this point that like she has, you know, she goes back to therapy after having the kids.

And she has a breakthrough with her therapist where he's like, well, you wouldn't know how. the mother-child bond is supposed to work because you never had that yourself? Well, yeah, she's... I don't think it's an argument against... It makes a case against adoption. She definitely had something else happen in her early life because lots of people are adopted and have maternal attachment to the people who adopted them and are better off than they would be.

She clearly does and her therapist is like getting in her head. I don't think she does. Or maybe she's just like a total sociopath. I don't know. Like one of those fringe cases who just like shouldn't have children and is right about. She probably shouldn't have children because she's I think traumatized by not having a mother. Because we don't really get much information about the circumstances of her. Yeah.

The only information that we get that's pretty consistent across the board in all three of the cases is that they all feel like they lost their identity. Yeah. And they all have husbands who seem not only accepting of, but enthusiastic about the prospect of being parents. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. I mean. And it, well, it made me think of that study that just came out that people were talking about before Trump struck Iran about how, as it turns out, if you financially incentivize women, the birth rate goes down.

but if you financially incentivize men, the birth rate goes up. That makes sense. Which is like, you know, unflattering, but true. But you were saying the woman who hates her kid as a sociopath?

I mean, I don't know. The adopted woman. No, I mean, well, okay, so at first, when I read it, I was like, okay, it was like, shocking. Yeah.

But they are, like, I was like, okay, they're speaking candidly anonymously. And they're voicing things that they know are shameful. Right. And being kind of like, you know, brutally honest. Yes.

And I thought like, okay, well, that has like value. Yes. But then one thing that that last woman said, who again, I do feel when she mentioned that she was adopted. Yeah. I was like, I mean, not everyone needs to have a kid. I agree. And I'm being facetious, obviously, when I say,

like she's like the best case against adoption. But the thing is with adoption, you really don't know what you're going to get. Well, what's the alternative that she would like languish and foster care and be even worse? Yeah. I mean, more so she's a case against like putting your kids up for adoption because you're depriving them. And then she mentions how her son has like behavioral problems.

Yes. And then she was diagnosed with behavioral problems too? Or is that another one I don't remember? She has ADHD. Yeah. And I think obviously, like, I don't have kids and I don't know. And I know it's difficult. And I know that, like, kids can be difficult.

But in her case, I couldn't help but immediately be like, oh, well, your son has behavioral problems because he can tell that you have. That you're not interested in him and don't want him. Yeah, that you have, like, ambivalent feelings about him. Yeah. you aren't because like what a good mother does and obviously good mothers also have kids with behavioral problems but like I do think basically as long as you like are able to affirm that your child is like a unique soul that you love is important that is important that you like don't resent yeah he can probably yeah yeah

Children are very porous and perceptive and they can sense when you resent them and don't want them. Well, here's the quote from her that really like stuck with me was she said it's been a year. Also, all these people have pretty young kids. So it's a little bit unfair to like, you know, she has a one year old. She's had postpartum. Yeah. Of course she's, I mean, she's breaking up her family, I guess. and, but, you know, I feel like when you talk to people with adult children, they remember

the difficult years of early child rearing much differently and they like miss their kids and long for those days and like, perspective. They don't, these people don't have perspective necessarily. Yeah. And besides. But that's why I question why they should be given a voice. Well, what was the quote that you were going to read? Oh, okay. So it's been a year genuinely, if there is a hell, I've been living in a

since I gave birth. My son has a low tolerance for frustration. Sounds like you. Yeah. And doesn't communicate other than whining. Screaming, crying, throwing things and pulling my hair. Sounds like you, babe. Yeah.

Where do you think you learn that? And like people probably are expecting us to be like snarky and catty and lash out at these women who again are anonymous and like told their stories for I don't know what purpose, maybe catharsis for them and awareness for the public, whatever, but... I do think this is very, this is like max sympathetic that they're like, there is a lot of pressure on women to have this unilaterally positive experience of motherhood. And then because it's socially unacceptable to say these things. Yeah. Um, or like discuss these aspects of parenting. Yeah. People end up internalizing lots of shame when they,

do have ambivalent feelings, which they inevitably will. Of course. It's extremely frustrating and exhausting to have children, no matter who you are, unless you're extremely wealthy and can just pawn off all of the hard work onto like, the help. Yeah. I don't think anybody denies that there are like feelings of anxiety and ambivalence that come up. but I question what the utility is of having this sort of like discourse in public. And I guess my bigger thing, my bigger take on this article is that I'm not interested in bashing these women specifically, but again, I question the purpose of this sort of journalism.

And I think like the obvious like take that you might glean from it is that it's like classic feminist propaganda. to deter women from having children. But when you really think about it, we're past that point already because the propaganda worked and women aren't really having children. Most women, myself included, are not above replacement

as like my haters are fond of pointing out. Sure. And so to me, this doesn't seem propagandistic in the, in like a clear cut obvious way. And it seems more like a post-talk rationalization, like a color. hope to

soothe and console women who don't have children and want them by saying like, hey, it's not all it's cut out to be you're going to take a hit to your identity and lifestyle. Yeah, the main complaint that they all have is that they lost their identity along the way. And when you really think about it, my question is like, what even is identity?

And why do you think you're like entitled to it? and somebody quote tweeted me talking about this article and said like it's much simpler even than what you're saying losing your identity is a polite euphemism for the fact that having children reveals what socioeconomic class you really belong to and usually most of the time it's lower than the one that you think you're in which is so true I think that's true And also the death of like a potential to like people harbor these delusions But if they're able to like That they'll be able to surpass Yeah Their limit and then what a child does is actually like

Remind you of yeah Not just reminds you but kind of like Not that you can't be upwardly mobile once you have kids But it does like you're putting roots down You're like you know you can't just like take a whimsical opportunity to like Which you're not going to be. realistically get to do anyway. Yeah.

And like somebody said like snarkily, like having kids makes you poor. It doesn't make you poor. It reminds you that you're merely middle class. Or poor. Or poor. Yeah. It just reminds you of your station in life and that generally speaking, most times you can't transcend it.

People rarely rise or fall in class. And he was right to a certain extent. But don't they? But generationally they do. Yeah. And that's why people historically have had kids is not just so that they could prosper more than them, but like the idea that they might. Because you are like, I think contemporary people have a harder time like with the foreclosure of opportunities. Yeah.

But they will be presented with regardless of whether they have kids or not. It's going to hit you at some point anyway. You will be humbled and humiliated by life. And then that one in particular, that like, bit in particular about like living in hell when I was watching the like footage of Tehran like burning and like toxic rain raining down on people. And then because initially I did have kind of like a sympathetic

and I am sympathetic to like these individual women, sure. Yeah. But like what's so. toxic, I think, about the antinatalist perspective in general. Yeah. Is that it's like people used to, you think about everything that like, and in America, this is less true in people's like immediate history. Yeah.

But like my grandparents were born in during the Second World War. Yeah. And who knows what like my ancestors were up to before that. But in a lot of the world, like, a lot of people have struggled to stay alive and have struggled to procreate. Yeah. And everything that people have like survived to produce progeny, even if they weren't like great parents or didn't like being parents,

it didn't really matter because they believed that like life would. And they accepted it. That life would find a way that like the human race would endure that there was like hope for the future. Yeah. And it's not so much that these women are just like spoiled or selfish. Yeah. It's like the,

there's just like a myopicness of not even thinking about the few. It's really, it's like truly very nihilistic. Yeah, it is like truly narcissistic hate to use that word because it's like a preoccupation with the self. But narcissists have kids. Yeah.

If narcissists are healthier than whatever this is even, because they like have progeny to continue their blood. Like a narcissist has children and isn't full of so much like neurotic strife about it. Yeah. No, Christopher Lash actually had a good bit about this where he talks about how narcissism has morphed over generations and that like you could describe the kind of like pioneering revolutionary men of history as narcissists because they. They were self-absorbed and self-invented, but they were concerned with like a kind of manifest destiny, not only like charting uncharted territories,

but like making sure that they're like, that they were essentially immortal through their bloodlines, which was a much more like positive narcissism than we have now, which is like negative nihilistic, inward looking, self-defeating. Even mediocre people, some of whom are also narcissists. felt there was a reason to go on. Yeah.

And that seems to be what's really missing is that there's no like notion that there's anything worth it that's outside of you. Yeah. That's what it is. When I say like narcissism again, I truly don't mean like, I don't mean it as a moral judgment. Like you're a bad or evil person. I mean that you're like trapped in this like, uh, like self-defeating.

bubble. I was watching Ryan Murphy's love story and like doom scrolling Twitter looking at like Iran war takes at the same time because my attention span is so low and also I was a little bit bored by the show. And then I like retired

to bed and I was like walked into Lenny's room and was like looking at him sleeping his like placid beautiful face and was like gripped with like this profound deep sadness because the world that he's inheriting is just so much worse than the world that I had growing up. But that's always... It's so uncertain, ambiguous.

But that's always true. And like... That doesn't deter me from having children, but it does like make me think and make me sad. Sure, it is sad. But I think it... Like, people used to their,

you know, people have... Like, life fun. lines away are used to or like people would find like people have children in war zones and like they probably have more children in war zones honestly but yeah their circumstance like the women in this article like their circumstances are so like everything they talk about even it's not like they want to like you know travel the world or you know make it award winning film or you know it's like they don't even have these ambitions they're like I want to go on a hike and take a nap well that I understand because they're like conflating the loss of their identity with like what even is their identity

like comfort insanity because the first few years are who said that like childbearing is like combat for women it is like I completely understand the like underlying mechanics of what we call postpartum depression which is like sleep deprivation hormonal freefall and sleep deprivation I get it's just chemical and I know like you know missing those things in long longing for them, but to be like, my life would be better if I didn't have a child so I could take a nap, not so I could like. Well, and charitably. Or get tenure at my fake fucking job or whatever these people even do. Yeah, like that one, the first woman who was like, you know, I was working at a nonprofit and I thought this was like rewarding life changing work.

And I took an L and took a job in comms so I could work from home. And it's like my immediate question was like, what kind of nonprofit? But what were you doing that was so important that's like more important than It's not. It just gratified her ego. I feel like she was good at something. And it wasn't even the hard, real brutal truth is that it wasn't even something really meaningful. No, no.

Or even personally meaningful. And like you're not like. Being a parent is gratifying in the long run, but it's often not not gratifying in the short run. not because children are annoying or a nuisance, but because you fail a lot as a parent. Sure. And like you're humbled a lot as a parent. But I think the narcissistic fantasy of like you could have accomplished these things had you not had kids. Yeah.

When there are so many people who have children and are still like exceptional or prosperous. Yeah. Even if you want to be zero sum about it, It's not like these women are like artists or filmmakers or lawmakers or politicians. They're not really doing anything. And a lot of those people do have kids. Yeah, they all have kids more or less. Yeah.

Not all of them, but. Some female filmmakers don't, but Elaine May did. Yeah. And she's one of the best to ever do it. Yeah. And then I think female artists who don't have kids, like obviously having kids hinders them in some practical ways. Yeah.

But not having children hinders them creatively, I think. Not everyone, obviously. Some people shouldn't. Some people are like, you know, clear to knee childless. Mm-hmm. Does amazing, you know. Yeah. Great.

I'm glad. I'm glad she doesn't have kids so she can, you know, do her thing. Yeah. But like most of these bitches only have shit to do. Yeah. You're working at a nonprofit. What do you got to do? Train some dogs and your body dysmorphia?

Like, shut up. Yeah. And that's the other thing. The other big complaints were that they, um, yeah, took a hit to their lifestyle and that they felt like their body was ruined. And my feeling with that is like, yeah, they, they no longer feel like fun and free and sexy, but the whole point of being fun and free and sexy is that you find a partner who wants to nut inside of you and get you pregnant so that you can have kids. Like what other, what else is there so that you, that you can go on. Yeah.

Yeah. And yeah, it'd be nice. Like, I'm, I think it's fine if they want to like amplify these kinds of experiences. But then they should also, and I understand why they don't because it runs counter to the feminist project. But like there's like a corollary foil article to be written by women who haven't had kids who are like middle aged and alone. And they don't. Their house is like cold and they can take a nap whenever they want. But like for what? They're just going to die in like a nursing home or something. Yeah. Those voices are like pretty much unilaterally suppressed. And that's what I mean like this is not propaganda for not having children. It's cope for not having children. Yeah. Because there's going to be like, okay, there's going to be a lot of women who are basically my age who don't make it. to the finish line and don't have kids and they're going to be really hurt and upset. And like I'm not a right winging on and I'm not like gloating in their like singledom and

misery. And maybe not even. I feel only sadness and compassion for them. And maybe not even in their 40s or not even in their 50s, but like in their 60s, like eventually like it's going to hit. It's going to catch up with you. Yeah. Yeah.

Like you can't just live in this total. myopic way and yes having children is a kind of loss of identity but it's good yeah it's and it's really comes down to them not having like a spiritual framework so they like are over-invested in egoic yeah like their identity is something that's like egoic rather than a big picture in which they are not the most important thing yes yeah and like charitable I understand also that they, it's not their fault because the nature of the family structure is that it has been like declining in recent times. And so you had big tribes or clans. Then you had the nuclear family. Now you have like broken homes and fractured families. So people just don't

have like networks or communities of people like it takes a village or whatever. I mean that there is one woman who's main, she's kind of she's upset with herself with how preoccupied she is with her. Like she does seem like a good mom in that she like is very concerned about her daughter. Yeah. She talks about like how she has a nosebleed and she has to pick her up. But then she like neurotically kind of spirals about what if one day she's not there. It's like it's a lot of like mental.

And she has like a mom helping her. Yeah. But that's like also normal and natural. Like if you like literally just like Google it like read about it. it's a very common phenomenon that when you are like a first time parent you're like beset with anxiety and guilt and intrusive thoughts of something really bad happening of course sure because you are just like hormonally dysregulated for the first year or two I mean I think it's that way for a lot of women and then yeah like kids don't really

like making you laugh and stuff and so over a while they're kind of just like worms that like you have to well I don't depend on you completely and I don't mean there's no connection I mean like before they can like carry a conversation yeah yeah sure yeah and you really feel like you know

when the the kid is a real baby like from zero to six months yeah zero to one Peter Thiel it's difficult to the extent that like yeah you're like hormonally dysfunctional and sleep deprived but it's easy because the he's like functionally a vegetable and you can like take him anywhere and do anything and then like between two and three years you have like the terrible twos where they're like not quite sentient but acting out and it's really difficult to like wrangle them and reason with them yeah

And then now that he's like almost five, it's totally fine. I just, yeah, I also think there's this like millennial idea that everything needs to be like optimized for your enjoyment. Yeah, your personal gratification. There's no sense of duty. There's nothing that people just do because they're like bound to do it. Well, they like have. Yeah, they have to be gratified by it at every turn. If they're not, then something must be wrong.

and they have ADHD or they're anxious or depressed or whatever. Well, that's like tangentially my big beef with some of these like right wing and non accounts who I won't name who will lash out at us and be like, oh, you're like Eastern European horrors, like subversive shitsters. You know, you have no background or heritage. You're not welcome here or like send you back. But it's like they also behave in a way publicly that's like devoid of any duty your honor. So why should I respect their claims if they can't back it up? Sure. I mean, I don't

relate to Heritage American. That's not my experience. And then like the other thing of this article is like obviously there's like a kind of sinister subversive subtext because the people who publish these pieces know that they will generate a viral discourse that will pit people against each other. It will pit men against women and it'll pit childless people against people with children. And then there's going to be like this fractious discordant dialogue going on for many days until something else bigger happens. Well, that's how you get the clicks baby. Yeah. And that's also like really terrible because it's like yeah, they they portray again the husbands as like happy, willing parents. Well, because they do sacrifice loss. They do. Yeah.

obviously it's easier it's one of the women she mentioned her husband's a carpenter yeah i know i noticed that um who does and she's like trying to be a well she also says that she was wanted to get tenure or go to a graduate program or something she was going to take some exam but then she had to do during covid but then she had to do bed rest because she had like complications with her pregnancy and it's like why can't you take an exam during COVID while doing beddress? That just didn't quite add up. Yeah. But then she says her husband's a carpenter who doesn't have to worry about work.

And it's like, no, you're just such a narcissist. You don't understand what other people worry about. Yeah. And you can't. Like he has a job, bitch. Yeah. And you assume that you're an accessory to him, but you treat him like an accessory to you. Yeah.

Like you completely like neglect. refuse to acknowledge his point of view in all of this. And they, yeah, they bought some, that one ends with like, a kind of a positive note or they buy a house. Yeah. And then she asks him if he thinks their life would be better if they didn't have kids. And he kind of says yes. And that just makes her feel less alone.

Yeah. Which is kind of a nice, you know, it's like, sure, you could have these like antisocial creepy thoughts, but like, yeah, you shouldn't be alone in them. But she's basically complaining that they have spent their entire life savings on buying a house in a better school district. And it's like, well, what else are you going to spend your life savings on if you're going to spend them? I understand like keeping some for a rainy day. But like if you're going to spend money on anything, also a home. Once you have a family, it should be for your family.

Ideally, though, obviously the market's volatile. But a home is an asset. Yeah. It might depreciate and value. but it might not. You like bought something that you didn't buy a $17,000 mattress. That's only depreciating in value. Like you have property.

That's like some people say that's better than money. Yeah. Because the dollar might tank because of the straight of whore moos. Hormoos. The place we just learned. about recently. I'm really worried about it. Yeah.

I hate to hear it. I'm like, it's still closed. I'm going to open that thing up. That's going to cause big problems. Yeah, I don't. I mean, I can't imagine an article being published that's like a glowing report about how great it is to have children, how this brought you closer to your husband. I mean, imagine showing a woman in Iran this article.

Yeah. Women in America regret having children. And like, we might kill your kids. Yeah, they were like, well, we regret that you bombed our school and killed our sons and daughters. Like, there's people literally, like, fighting to keep their children alive. Yeah. And you're like, eh, it's not for me. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm kind of having a bad time with this kid I had in. In the first world country I live in because I never got tenure. at my fake job. It's like a crazy irony that she wants to get tenure to be a teacher for other people's children. She's probably a college professor or something. She says teacher though, not professor. But normal teachers don't get tenure, do they? They do.

Sometimes, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I assumed she had some, like, university positions. No, because you know how women are. if they're getting tenure as a professor, they're going to be like, they'll be out there. Yeah.

But maybe it would have docks her too much. Maybe she's being deliberately vague. I'm being charitable. Yeah. But yeah, there is just like an all-around. I don't think this is even necessarily, a strictly woman problem. There's just like an all-around like lack of tolerance and intolerance

for any like kind of like stress, discomfort, inconvenience. It gets like, pathologize, medicated. And my feeling with that is like whenever your cortisol is spiked and you're feeling stressed, you should just like sit on it and not say anything, not lash out, not gum it. Yeah, drink a bunch. Take a bunch of pills, mother's little helper and like ride it out and it'll be fine.

I mean, not the last part we say in Jess, but the others, it's true. And then in the big, that's the thing is like people don't much like childbirth. and this again as a childless person I don't really know but I imagine and maybe this is a fantasy but the same way women like forget how painful childbirth is so they can like go through it again I do think like once you raise children

and you have a family and hopefully it's still like intact you don't look back on like the postpartum and the stress of like infancy you just kind of like take it all in an amalgam of like the life that you made and you have a family. Yeah. And that's worth it. Yeah, you miss the days when they were like cute little babies when they're surly teens. And then when they're, you know, when they go to college, you'll miss when they're surly teens.

Like that's life, babe. What's that empty nest syndrome? Yeah. Not looking forward to that. And then they like won't call you or talk to you. I know. You'll like miss them and you'll give anything to like have. them like pull your hair and punch you again.

I know, I know. This week has been very hard for me, not because of, um, the war in Iran, but because, um, Lenny hit some developmental milestone where like,

uh, he's, he found out the podcast is annoying. And he, he thinks that we're fascists. So he wants to distance himself from it. But yeah, like he's like more cognizant of like social pressures and seeking

independence. And I just have to like ride with it because I can't be like a devouring edible mother or whatever. But it's like painful and fittersweet. Yeah, he's getting a skating sponsorship. He has full-blown oral herpes. Stop. He's modeling for Supreme. He found out about Zog.

He's had enough. He's decided he's not MAGA anymore. But like yeah, obviously you're going to like miss the days when they were like Of course you'll miss little clingy vegetables Like children aside you miss all the like I mean yeah I've had times in my life I definitely don't like miss you know But like I have nostalgia certainly for like being younger and not knowing like how much time I had or how my life would turn out and I had like anxieties and unhappiness then yeah and And like in hindsight, I would have just been like, oh, I just didn't have enjoyed like what I was doing then. Yeah.

But no, you know, easier said than done or whatever like lives. No one can live like that. No, I know. Like you remember the times when you were like a broke, fugly loser? Yeah. And you're like, my life was so easy. It was so nice and fun and happy and carefree. I used to go to the mall for eight hours a day and drink THC water.

Yeah. And like my life sucked I was like self-medicating I guess But also You know It had its charms Yeah you were like And you don't get those days back

You were like truly free In a way that you're not now Should we talk about the white girls article Or wrap it up Let's wrap it up I feel Um I like started reading

Lost Lambs Because the metal, I don't, I, have I ever met Madeline Cash? You may have. I sobletted her apartment when I was suffering extreme distress from the, uh, Israeli construction outside my apartment. Yeah, well, I was, when I read that article, I was thinking like how like even like five years ago I would have been like really against these girls and would have been like, oh yeah, they're like doing feminist confessionalism.

and their political fence sitters. But that article really pissed me off because it was so petty and jealous. Her book's not even auto-fitts. It's like truly it's like a real novel with like many characters. It's not autophictional. It's not, none of this like,

it's a real straw man that she's like making a critique against because Madeline Cash's book is being met with a lot of acclaim. Have you read it? I started reading it. She sent it to me a while ago. I'm an asshole. So I'm like, I'm brain damage.

I think. But it seems totally good and like is just an amazing. It's like an amazing feat even, I think, to write. To do something like that. Yeah. To write a novel with like many characters. Yeah. Instead of just like one person.

Even even writing a like an auto fiction novel where it's just like basically you like diaristically. How old are these girls? They're in their late 20s, early 30s? Yeah. Yeah, okay, they should be allowed to have their fun. Well, honor is a genius. It's her debut short story collection.

Like, why are you still taking her to task for it? And lumping her into some, like, narrative you're trying to create. And then Madeline wrote like a real book that is impressive. Yeah. And like, yeah, we can be critical of it. But none of these really like hit. Okay. Yeah, we got to go.

Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. See you now See you and how