Red Scare - Making Points w/ Saagar Enjeti

Episode Date: April 14, 2023

Author, commentator and Breaking Points host Saagar Enjeti stops by the pod to discuss the Trump indictment, the Ricky Vaughn verdict, the Nashville shooter, gun control, men's fashion, and more.

Music playing. Zoom app audio is perfectly serviceable, but we'll have the backup. But there's a lot of Spurgs out there who are particular. Yeah, I know many of them. If one of our octaves on our show is even like one off, they absolutely freak out. There was a glitch at 53.55. Are you re-exporting? No.

You guys are on YouTube? Fall in line. It's on YouTube? Spotify? Do you have a comment section? Unfortunately, yeah, we do. Do you read the comments? I don't read it anymore.

I used to read it. I used to subject myself to that. I mean, some of it was nice. Most of them were nice to Crystal. They weren't that nice to me. I wonder why. Yeah, it's okay. It's fine.

Maybe I can expand my fan base amongst gays here on the Red Scare podcast. So I'm excited to be here. I feel like they don't appreciate me enough. We'll make it happen. What kind of validation would you like from the gay community? From the gays? Mostly the beard. I need validation about the beard.

It looks good. It's new. Thank you. It is new. It's new-ish. What made you grow it out? The comment section on YouTube. I just decided to try it.

You know, I was reading a biography of Wilhelm I. And I was like, you know, it's a pretty badass beard. I was like, I wonder what I would look like with a beard. You read a lot of biographies. Men love biographies. I tried if we get through a bio, but... Sager, you're very lucky you're not a Norwood. Great head of hair.

We should probably get to the introductions. We have a very special guest with us today, Sager and Jetty. Am I saying that correctly? Yes, you are. Thank you. Wonderful. Sager, if you don't know already, is a master of podcasting, much like us. He's one half of the wildly successful Breaking Points show.

Which you've gone on. No, no, I have. Yes, I have. I have not. Yes, you've gone on. Where Stash has invited. You're welcome anytime. With the lovely crystal ball, the hottest woman on the left,

sorry, Anna Kasparian. You also, you still do the realignment pod with Marshall Kossler. I do. I went on that too. And I had my Bethany Mandel moment when Sager's co-host asked me to define neoliberalism or something. And I was just like, ugh. Don't ask me that.

I don't even remember that. I don't either. Get me with any crap like that. Yeah. It's all good. I'm here to get God. That's my role. Did you pay for a blue check?

Or are you going to? No, I'm not. What about you guys? Well, you guys don't even have blue checks. No. That's right. I think it's cooler that way. Yeah, maybe.

I would never pay to use. I'm like, you should be paying me. Yeah. I've been on this. If you've been on that for over a decade, like they should pay you. Yeah. We've been on for more than a day. Elon's actually doing me a favor because he said he's taking it away on 420 and 421

is my birthday. And I'm like, he's giving me the greatest gift, like taking it away. I'm like, I don't need this shit anymore. One day shy of Hitler. Damn. That's right. That's right. Wait.

He's on 420. He's phasing out the legacy blue check. Yeah. Is that correct? Yeah. So everybody is basically a paid blue check from here on out. Yeah. Exactly.

What do you guys think? I think it's cringe to pay for a blue check. I do too. I think it's cringe. Absolutely. I mean, why? Yeah. I mean, I could see, I guess on an Elon's part, it's a good like troll.

Yeah. He's grown on me a lot. I used to really like think it was like this horrible slob. And I still do. But now I like, like that he's so. He's our horrible slob. He's our retard. And he's the richest guy in the world.

Yeah. That's awesome. I'm so happy for him. Our friend Nicolo has a fairly convincing theory that paying for a blue check. I mean, it's a big cope on his part because he pays for a blue check. But that paying for a blue check erodes the credibility of like the legacy blue check journalists who we all hate. Yeah.

No one can kind of, you know, they offered me a blue check when I had a publicist and I said, don't do it. Yeah. I said, it'll actually make me less credible if I have a blue check on. But you have a blue check on Instagram. So what's up with that? Well, that I woke up and she got it for me. Like my publicist got me verified and then didn't tell me and then I didn't want to

make a big deal about unfair. Okay, Dasha. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Who me? You're really like my go to guy when I want to understand what's going on in the world economically or geopolitically.

I hop on over to your Twitter account or fire up those rising clips. We brought you on because we need somebody to like mansplain the world to us. We really don't know what's going on. We don't know what's going on and our fans have voted and they said they're pulling the Patreon bucks if we keep bringing on the right wing in ons. Oh, that's fair. That's fair. Well, okay.

First question. Why did you and Crystal cut me off when I was on your show trying to explain the Russia, Ukraine conflict in my janky Mexican, Arabian beach? Just kidding. No, my first question is do you, do you, how do you identify? This isn't a trick question. Me? Yeah.

Do you see yourself as like a Republican, a conservative? Do you like? Yeah. Politically non-binary. And how'd you get into politics? Yeah, let's go with that. Oh, I'm the most cringe person that there is. That's why I'm not the right person to talk to about.

I'm not representative of anyone. I got into politics because I grew up in College Station, Texas, which is kind of a shithole. Yeah. And mostly I was like, why are you, why did even Juggles hate me after 9-11? And I was like nine years old. So that was my journey into politics. The classic like upper middle class yet racially discriminated against guy. But I guess the good turn for me was I got to Washington DC and I saw all the people

who were fighting for me, like with the Democrats. And I was like, yeah, I don't know if this shit is it, man. I'm like, this, this is not, this is not really my thing. So I was more like doctrinaire, I guess, like right wing for a while. But now I'm more in like a political nihilist phase where I just think everything is cringe, including the people that I agree with. So I don't know. I just do my show and I try to help people make sense of what's going on,

but I don't really believe in anything. What about you? Same, probably. Yeah. We're like off-label politically. I mean, I'm kind of a libertarian. Yeah. In that I don't, which is kind of nihilistic too, and that I just don't really care about

policy because everything is so abstracted and confusing and like oversaturated with information that my like brain is breaking and I just don't care. Yeah. So don't, I don't want to be treaded on. That's one thing about me is I hate being treaded on. So in that way. Well, I used to be, I used to be anti-libertarian, like on economic policy. I definitely still am.

But you know, some of the stuff like I recently got went into a Waco kick and I'm just like, yeah, like I'm basically against all gun control of any kind. Right. Like anything because I'm like, these fuckers will literally storm in your house and burn you and your kids to their ground. Yeah. Yeah, they will. And they did.

And then they'll cover it up and then they'll prosecute you for shooting back at them. So I'm like, all right. Well, I was like, I don't know what I am, but fuck that. I'm definitely not for that. COVID made me a lot more libertarian. So yeah, I don't know. The least interesting thing is like about me or whatever, from what I can tell, a lot of people just really like that there's weird nerds, like people like me who read the news

and I'm just like, here's what's going on. Here's the right side. Here's the left side. Take whatever you want. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty cool that you have managed to be so kind of, I mean, you're an independent broadcaster, but you're way less niche and way more mainstream than we are. And it's cool that they let you in the room.

The show is huge, which I did not expect. Oh my God. Look, nobody planned for this. It's a complete accident. It basically just started blowing up on YouTube a couple of years ago and we were like, oh my God, like a lot of people listen to this. And then Joe Rogan had us on a couple of times and like that does pretty well. And now, yeah, like now I have like normie dudes who drive tractors who listen to my

podcast, which is pretty wild. Are you? I don't know how this happened. Yeah. Yeah. Are you and Crystal friends off screen? Do you guys like hang out and do cute little barbecues? Or I asked because people always ask us, how did you and Dasha meet?

And I'm just like rocking back and forth in the corner like, please don't make me tell the story again. Are we a dual friend? I know. That's also the most common question. Yeah. We do have a hang out. The thing is Crystal has three kids.

So it's just like a little bit of a different lifestyle. So she also lives like farther out. But whenever she's in the city, yeah, we let go out to eat, take our crew out also for like restaurants. I've like gone to some of her fans or, you know, some party or whatever and vice versa. We're very cool with each other. You guys are tight. Yeah.

But that's the original premise of the pod was like kind of good cop, bad cop. You were like the bad conservative one and she was the good leftist one. But you guys actually kind of agree on a lot of stuff. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I still think that is kind of the whole genesis of it. And like, don't get me wrong. Like we still fight.

Like, you know, you can go look at some of the old episodes on gun control episodes on what do you guys fight about? I mean, like it gets heated. Oh, it's like, it's all culture. It's all like guns, BLM, like trans, any of that. But, but, and I think what's that for some parts is we're not like, I'm not like, I fucking hate you and you're going to destroy my kids. I'm like, I understand where you're coming from.

Personally, this is what I think. I think a lot of people, you know, would agree with X, Y and Z and the way that you're framing this is not something that necessarily fits. I think I'm, I think because I grew up, I grew up and went to school with a bunch of libs that I don't, even though I like disdain some of what they stand for, I'm capable of understanding them and being like, you don't genuinely have malice in your heart. Most of them. And so I'm like, I understand where you're coming from, the information set that you're

working with. You know, if you think that way, like, I don't hate you. We'll just keep talking. Right. I think that's the best thing. When you grow up around a lot of Indian people, was there like a big Indian community? I grew up in central Jersey. So my school was like 18, 20% Indian people.

Yeah. Yeah. I grew up around a lot of it with a lot of Indians. So we were like together against the white evangelicals. But they're like a mix bunch when it comes to like liberal versus concern. Sorry. Go ahead. That's a more interesting question.

I vote Democrat, but I hate Muslims. And you're like, no, that's kind of interesting. Or they're like, I vote Democrat, but don't tax my doctor's office or my private cancer clinic that I'm making millions of dollars off of. They're an interesting bunch. And what cast is your family? What do you think? Yes.

Are you a Brahmin? Are you a Brahmin? Of course. Of course. Yeah. Okay. I think to be fair, 40% of Indian Americans are Brahmins. Even though only like 1% of Indians are.

Okay. Do you know any untouchables? I've met a few. Actually, you guys want to know something crazy. Like whenever you go to India, some people in India still kind of abide by this shit. And I think I was like 20 or something like that. And this lady like lent down to touch my feet. And I was like, hey, like I'm from America, like please don't do this.

I was like, this is not my thing. Like here's some money, like go get some food. You know, like I'm like, please, like whatever this dynamic is, like I can't stand this shit. And you're like, can you clean my house? Yeah. I'm like, but clean my house first before you get that food. No. Okay.

So I have, I have a very specific beef with Indians and it's not because the Brahmin cast runs tech in America. It's my thing with Indians is that they are allergic to the concept of warm tone lighting. They really like the fluorescent lighting. Why is that? Or is that just like a Jersey thing? Maybe it looks good on their skin. Maybe.

Yeah. I mean, I have pretty fluorescent lighting here. You do. I think because they're not as like pink. Maybe. Yeah. The cool hues. Yeah.

Like make their skin. I'm just thinking from, you know. This is something I've never thought about. If I had to guess, I think developing countries have more fluorescent lighting. Totally. Less than. So that's maybe what they're used to. Well, Chinese.

Just having traveled like. Yeah. Right. Like, you know, if you're ever in some like shitty Cambodian hotel, like the lights are bizarrely weirdly very fluorescent. Yeah. Which you would think like lesser tones would be cheap, whatever. I don't know.

I don't know what I'm talking about. There's something there. Yeah. We have to get to the bottom of this over many episodes. We'll get there. We'll get there. Something's going on with the lights. With the lighting.

Yeah. Yeah. Something's happening with the lights. Don't you think? No, I agree. Now that you say it, I'm like, wow, I've never thought about that was definitely true. It's so true. Yeah.

One of my favorite things that you've ever said, which I completely concur with is that you're not anti-elitist per se. Right. Being, you know, an elite of some kind yourself. It's just that our current elites in the United States suck. Do you still stand by that? And is the binary of elites versus non-elites still a useful one? See, that's actually a good divide of the show.

I would say that Crystal's politics, like, I guess like democratic socialists left kind of just operates under the presumption that there should be no elite, that I guess all elites are bad. And yeah, I'm like, no, like all societies have elites by definition. Most people are actually okay with that elites and quote unquote, non-elites is that our current elite is terrible and has been terrible. I don't know. I mean, it depends on how far back you want to go.

I would probably say what, like 1960, the whole classic rant about the managerial revolution, I think is 100% true. I just tweeted about something. So I'm like cringe and went to a grad school to study national security, which is cringe and retrospect. But I just saw this lady who's writing a book called Deploying Feminism, the Role of Gender in NATO Military Operations. And like, and this is an event organized by NATO, like by NATO Canada, like an event of

an official NATO event. And I saw some inklings of that. There was this girl in my class who at the end was like, just so everyone knows, I've been counting that the number of minutes that women spoke and the number of minutes that men spoke and men outnumbered like two to one or something like that, even though the class is 50-50. And I remember spending like, what the fuck are you talking about? And like that lady is now actually pretty powerful in Washington.

I won't call her out. Oh, by NATO. But like, yeah, she's like a prominent lady in our national security in like girl Natsek squad or whatever, which was a real thing also whenever I was in school, it was like Natsek girl squad or some shit like that. It's like the rainbow meme. They were all trans. Kind of incarnate.

Yeah. Well, I don't know. No, I'm kidding. I don't know if they've, I don't think they've gotten there yet. Like DC is like 10 years behind in terms of our social trends, like fashion-wise, socially and everything. Yeah. About a decade.

Yeah. About a decade. I like to go to Soho and just be like, oh, this is where things will be in 10 years. Interesting. Got it. Yeah. Do you like DC or do you just begrudgingly live there because your work is there? You don't have to live there.

Definitely the latter. Because you're a broadcaster. I mean, I think I do. You do. I think I do need to live here. Why? I think I need to feel the, it's like you guys in New York, like you gotta, you gotta absorb the shit.

Like the politics of it all. But you have to absorb that shit into your bloodstream. You need to. Yeah. I don't think I could hate the like, like institutional leftism if I didn't live in it as much. Like you need, you need, there's a certain level of like crime that you need to interact with BLM and trans flags that you need to walk by on a daily basis to be like, oh, right. Like these, this is real.

Have you considered Portland? There's people who are in a country. Oh, but that's worth, that's wait, that's like grunge live. Yeah, it is. I don't, that's too much. That's just too much. I don't want to see heroin on my walks. Just crack is fine.

Yeah. Who do you think the last great president was besides Donald Trump? Ooh, that's a tough question. Nixon, say Nixon. Richard Nixon. Nixon, Nixon was a good president. I can make, I, I've got them, I've got their bodies organized in order behind me. Probably FDR.

I think FDR was the last truly great president. Word. Yeah. What do you think about Marianne Williams? I'm trying to get her to come on your show. You know that, right? You are? Yes.

We're working on it. I didn't want to, I didn't want to spoiler you, but I've been in touch with the people. I didn't want to, I didn't want to, I wanted to surprise you. Emily. I heard the grapevine. Yeah. I've been in touch with her. Yes, that's right.

And don't make any prom. Okay. I'm really superstitious. Knock on wood. So you can edit this out if you want to. No, no, no. Emily, who works with us, told me she's a huge fan of you guys and she was like, hey, can we get Marianne?

Well, of course. I was like, I'll connect you guys or whatever. So we'll work on it. I promise Red Scare audience. We will try. That would be very interesting. No, I don't think we should edit this out. We should leave it in because even if it doesn't happen, they'll get excited for once and be

grateful for like 36 to 72 hours before they start calling us transpassing again. You have the most brutal fan base. We really do. You really do, but they're dedicated. I love them. I love them. We did it ourselves. We have no one but ourselves to blame.

We came out with this. You know, I own Red Scare socks. You do? I have the black Red Scare socks. Let's say Anna and Dasha. Do you wear them on set? I have worn them on set. I heard the uptick in your voice.

We have a new long sleeve tee droppings. Let me know. We'll send you one. We'll send Crystal one. I want to see Crystal wearing the metal long sleeve. She's not going to do that. I'll try. The problem is, you guys have all these really like hot Gen Z models.

So I feel like I can't like post my stuff because I'm just like this straight dude. You don't have to. I think you have a good... I was looking at your Instagram earlier, preparing my DOS today for the podcast. I was wondering where the DOS light came from. I was like, that's interesting. I was like, that's cool. But I think you present well on social media.

Thank you. It's giving normal. It's not giving. It's good. Yeah. You don't seem like a seething freak, unlike many of the men we associate with. Plus, I think girls and gays really do love a clean cut Indian guy. I know.

Interesting. I definitely do. You know I do. Yeah, Dasha does. Shall we talk about the Donald Trump indictment slash arraignment? Sure. This is to recap, he's facing now multiple suits. There's a civil suit filed by New York Attorney General Leticia James against him back in

September 2022. And then there's a criminal suit filed by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg last month. And the first one is against him, his children, Trump Organization, alleging that they were involved in an expansive scheme lasting over a decade by providing false financial statements to lenders and others that the former president used to enrich himself. And this new one, which is the one that everyone's talking about, was the one where he was arraigned and pled not guilty to 34 charges of falsifying business records showing an investigation

into hush money payments made to the adult star Stormy Daniels. Does this in any way impact his ability to run in 2024? Oh, I think it helps him. I mean, in the short term, just look at the way that his polls have shot up. But all right, so like let's put the politics aside and like look at look at the actual charge. These are obviously bullshit charges. Like what Alvin Bragg is charging him with. And by the way, everyone's like 34 felony counts.

Those each count is whenever he paid Michael Cohen. It's the same thing. It's just he paid him 34 times. Right. He was like, it's like, you know, whenever your Venmo balance, you finally have enough to like fulfill like half of somebody's request. It's like, that's that's basically what he was doing. So okay, all right, but these charges are originally misdemeanors and the case arrests

on bumping them up to felonies. Is that correct? That's right. In order to do that, they have to prove that they falsified records, which were used to conceal another crime, which is not identified in the indictment. That sounds very not only not identified. Not only not identified, he has no jurisdiction. These charges, the underlying crime that they're charging him with is campaign finance, but

they have no jurisdiction over campaign finance law. That's a federal crime, which the feds specifically decided not to indict him for even after he was president in 2021. That's why I look in like a re before a real judge, there's no way the shit would ever go to trial. Like there's it would get thrown out, but because these are all like Kathy Huckle, you know, Cuomo appointed judges, it's very possible that it could on its face, though, it's a ludicrous.

I mean, it's not just me who's saying this, like somebody who's, I guess, partisan or whatever. Like CNN has legal analysts being like, this is a bad case. Fucking David French thinks that it's not a good case. Like on his face, this is the absolute dumbest case against Trump. Like there's no question. So aside from making a name for Bragg among his like liberal cohort, what is the point of this like obviously political politically motivated stunt?

Because is there any way that this could even hurt or harm Trump? It seems like it'll only boost his rep with people who are his loyalists and it's not going to change the way that people who are already convinced against him feel anyway. Right. I agree with you, but you can't discount normies who are like, oh my God, he was charged by the DA. And there's some, you know, like, you know, they're like, they're like, the legal system is just and real.

Like you don't just get charged if you don't, if you have never committed a crime. So his favorability rating did take a 7% hit. So I have it in front of me, ABC, Ipsos poll has down to 25%. That's actually the all time low this ever had in favorability. And most people, here's the other thing. Most people, they don't give a shit about Alvin Bragg. They don't care about misdemeanor versus felony about statute of limitations or campaign finance.

People who hate Trump, sorry, go ahead. Is George Soros doing it? And if he is, then why is he, like, why is he doing it? Why is he funding all these things? I mean, is Soros like a wise old owl? Why would he? Yeah. Like, is he just pure evil?

Is he just evil? The Soros song is weird. The Soros thing actually is very weird, like, because it is, I think he's ideologically committed to like a criminal justice reform kind of view of the world. And you know, despite the fact that, you know, Chesa Boudin got his ass kicked out of San Francisco, like, you know, the LADA did survive the New York, I think he won, what's the guy's name in Philly? I think it's like Larry Krasner or something like that.

He not only won, he actually survived recall. I believe that the New York DA as well, or the New York prosecutor or whatever, also was, you know, Soros funded, like him and his kids just have like a deeply ideological commitment to like more crime, basically. Right. Yeah, that's what he loves to do. He loves chaos? That's cool.

Yeah. I think he knows that Democrats have like a crime kink or a crime fetish. They love getting their cars broken into so they could go brag about how they're not at all mad on Twitter. Right. But, okay, all that aside, why this particular indictment from this particular Soros DA, which just everybody, which everybody agrees seems unwise and foolhardy since it will only boost Trump's star.

Amongst the most hardcore libs, they love it. That's I think that's the easiest answer. I mean, if you read even the Times, they did like a whole internal write up like how Alvin Bragg decided to decide to charge Trump. And it was bit like the guy who preceded him, Cyrus Vance said, this is a bullshit case. I can't bring this case for prosecution, this is not going to happen. But basically, his deputies after, I think he was either fired or left, they came in and they're like, you have to prosecute this, Mr. Bragg.

And he was like, okay. And so they lined it up and they got the witnesses. But these are all people we already know, like the Michael Cohen and Michael Cohen has already pled guilty, gone to jail and been released from jail for this same crime. Like, that's how long this shit has been in the public sphere. I actually covered them. So they really have nothing on him. So Donald Trump said, I mean, in this case, but like if they had something, wouldn't they

have it? It makes him seem like the most innocent man in the world. I'm not going to let myself get quoted from the Red Steer podcast. He's a targeted individual. I mean, he is definitely one of the most targeted men. Well, look, I actually do think out of all of them on the Docks case, he's in some trouble. But politically, how do you bring a case against Trump when Biden did the exact same thing? Well, that's what I was going to ask you.

Yeah. I feel like every major electoral campaign can basically be accused of identifying and purchasing negative information that it then seeks to suppress. Well, so, okay. So we're still talking about this. I was talking more about the documents, but yeah, you're right. I mean, the Clinton campaign is the one who I think they paid like the Perkins Coey law firm to fund the Steele dossier.

They ultimately had to plead for a campaign finance thing and they paid it at the end of the day. The most the reason he's even a legal jeopardy at all is because he paid it out of his personal pocket and not out of the campaign. But look, who did the right thing by giving hush money to hooker? Sounds like he got extorted. Sounds like he's the victim. I'm not.

Well, I mean, Karen McDougal, Karen McDougal came after him too. She is much better looking than Stormy Daniels is also. So I'm not sure why he wanted to cover that one, although I mean, the circumstances, I'm sorry. I mean, that's fine. Do you want to know one of my favorite Trump quotes from when I interviewed him? Oh, you interviewed him. I've interviewed him four times.

So was this one the last yes, yeah, once upon a time was a White House correspondent. And the last time is when that lady, he's actually going to trial on it. It's like a sexual harassment suit. And it was the last question. So we were like, Mr. President, you know, before we go, we have to ask this woman has come out and I think it's like Glenn, something I think is her name has come out and accused you of sexual assault. And he, he leans back in the Oval Office and he goes, first of all, she's not my type.

Oh, it was, it was an EG, it was maybe EG. Yes, Jean Carroll. That's yeah. EG and Carol. Yeah. That's who it is. Yeah. Um, she accused her of like, uh, launching himself at her in a like Bergdorff's dressing

room or something. Yes. Um, he didn't even do the first thing, the very first thing he says, he's like, first of all, she's not my type. And then immediately after we leave, we publish, you know, whatever he said, and I see EG and Carol on Anderson Cooper and the Chiron is just like, Trump, Colin, not my type. And it's like Anderson Cooper asking her, asking her what she said. Wait, so to backtrack what, which documents are you talking about?

Cause we're retarded. Oh, I'm talking about the classified documents, the Mar-a-Lago. Mar-a-Lago. But that one's a problem. Why? That one's a problem. I literally, I just get my news from guys at the gym and Trump's emails. That's where I, so I'm a little biased, I guess.

All right. So here's why it's a problem. But he said that everyone takes the documents home. And he's right. Biden did that. Uh, I believe there was another figure who did, uh, Pence did that. The problem is, is that he's actually not necessarily like facing criminal liability on having him.

He's facing it more on obstruction and they've got it now to the point where they asked him for the documents, he didn't give them all back and it appears according to the feds that he actively was trying to keep the documents away from whatever the national archive records. And from what? Because they have secret service agents who guard them, they're subpoenaing his secret service agents. They include also like subpoenaing his own lawyers, getting them to break a current attorney client privilege because they say that they were involved in the scheme.

And now there's, look, this is all based on leaks. So we don't actually know what the case they have until they bring it. But based on the facts that we know, they say that Trump actively was even at one point like searching through the documents saying quote, like, these are my documents. And look, I mean, that is kind of an open to shut obstruction of justice thing. If you choose to bring it, if you choose to break, yeah, exactly. And that's the other thing. Like everybody knows Trump would do that.

Like everyone. Um, when I, so more, more, when I interviewed Trump, uh, at one point he's like, you ever been in here before? It was like the oval office. And I was like, no, like not really. And he's like, come here, I'll show you around. And he's like taking me around. He's like, look, he showed me his private photo book with Kim Jong-un.

And I was like, this is crazy. Like, privately that you took with Kim Jong-un, I was like, this is some crazy shit. But that's who he is. So the moment I saw it, I was like, 100% believe you did it. So like what you see is what you get with Trump. He's not any different. Absolutely. That's awesome.

No, no, no. He curses a lot more. It's actually funnier whenever he curses. No internal monologue, which is awesome. It's all, yeah, it's all, you know, he really is like a child. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. When he gets my favorite Trump moment is when he gets off the plane and he's told that

RBG died and he was, you're telling me this for the first time, telling me for the first time. Do you think he legitimately is hearing it for the first time and no, that's the best part. You think he's lying? I told him. No, I mean, it's true. I told him the moment he got off the stage, it was all, it was all a performance and it

turned into one of the most legendary memes that we've ever seen. You're telling me this for the first time. She lived a wonderful life. She lived so good. I love, I love Saugher's Trump impression because it sounds like Marlon Brando and the Godfather. Oh, really? I'm sorry.

It's not as good anymore. It's good. It's good. At one point. We need to come back in the White House so we can all refine our Trump impression. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you think he has a chance in 2024?

Of winning? Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I get really annoyed when, look, Trump only lost by 30,000 votes over three states. That's nothing. Like that is nothing. Yeah, exactly.

Like one, if there's, if the weather is better in Georgia, he might win. Like if, you know, if a certain whatever happens in Arizona, maybe he wins. If something goes the right way, elections and yeah, that's right. If, yeah, whatever Kerry Lake said wasn't happening, then he's going to win. Like my favorite is if he passes another round of stimulus checks, there is no question Donald Trump would be the president today. If they, what's, oh, Marlon voting, actually. If the number of people who voted in the GOP primary in Georgia by mail and then didn't

do so for the general election, he wins the state of Georgia. Like there's, there's so many, I honestly believe that if Trump had just said boomers, please mail in your votes, I think he would have won. So a lot of the analysis about Trump losing and all that, I just think it's bullshit. I mean, very barely lost. And what did we all learn in 2016? Any nominee of a major party, absolutely 100% can win. Who the fuck knows what's going to happen on election day.

And so I just, people need a lot of humility. It is inspiring. I agree with you. I mean, that's when Trump won, I was like, did you know he was going to win in 2016? Did you have a, I had no, no, I was much more conventional at that time. Actually, I credit Trump's victory with kind of freeing my mind because I was like, Oh, I'm like, you, I was part of like the DC, yeah, I was like, wow, and it is though. It is though.

That's, I wouldn't, there's no way I'd be here today without the Trump election. And it's because of that moment. I remember sitting there, it was like two AM, they call Pennsylvania, I'm in the daily collar offices, everyone's like hooting, and I was like, I can't fucking believe the shit. And it's because I was part of like the DC kind of conservative, whatever, you know, like AEI scholars and everyone's like, this is what conservatism is. And national review is like, this is what conservative is. And I was like, yes, you're right, Joe Goldberg, like this is what conservative is.

And I was like, wait, you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. And that's a very liberating thing to be like, you and I are, I'm actually at an advantage because your brain is rotten. I'm like, you are beholden to all these people, you're beholden to a bunch of things which you care about and your donors care about, but which the base doesn't give a shit about at all. And I was like, wow. And actually, I remember, because I was in school at the time, grad school also while

I was working at the daily collar. And I was part of this cringe Natset program that I was telling you guys about. And I came in and these people were in fucking tears at Georgetown, you know, everybody was like taking, they got mad at me because I was like, Hey, you can't take off class to go protest. That's actually like bullshit. Like I'm not rescheduling my job so that you can go to a refugee's welcome protest. And I sat with one of the guys who came to my class who wrote the Obama, like Muslim

apology tour speech. If you guys know what I'm talking about in like 2009, he went to Cairo and he's like, we do not, you know, like we are not against Islam and this is what the new. Yeah, and that was crazy. Yeah, right. That's right. That's right. No.

So, and I just remember saying, he was like, and now all of it has been stomped on. And I was just like, don't Americans get a say here? I'm like, he's like, everything America stands for. And I was like, well, wait, I was like, who decides who America stands for? I was like, it's people who vote. I'm like, they just voted this man, democratically, the president. And that's where I could already see the seeds of Russiagate and all that stuff. I'm like, no, it never would have happened without the Comey letter or without the, you

know, whatever. And within a week here in DC, it was just, it was bullshit. It was all like, it was stolen. He's a fake president. And yeah, I mean, he freed my mind. I will always give the man credit for that. I was like, I don't have to listen to anyone. I was like, I actually, it's like you said, that's like anything is possible, actually

literally anything is possible. Are you slamming the Trump button in 2024? Slamp the first support? Yeah. No, it depends. How do you feel? We'll see. What do you think about Rick DeSantis?

Ron DeSantis. Ron DeSantis. Sorry. I see he's so. I call him Rob DeSantis all the time. Yeah. He's so, he's so unmemorable and uncharismatic to me that I always call him. And what do you think about the DeSantis part?

DeSanctimonious. I don't like DeSanctimonious, but I love Meatball Ron. That's how I refer to him on my show, even though he's lost some weight now. But I do think it's very unseemly to be a fat politician. Trump accepted because I guess he's just accepted in general. The DeSantars are all like, they have all this like Camelot nostalgia, I've noticed. Yes. They're like, they're like, they're like demented.

They're like, they want some kind of like Shady Kennedy administration. Yeah. Right. No, I'm, I'm glad you say that. I'm glad you guys have the same read because I'm like, look, yeah, he's a, he's a good GOP governor. Yeah. I'm like, does he have what it takes to be Trump?

Like not a fucking chance in my opinion. And actually Crystal and I have taken a lot of heat for saying this because they're like, well Ron DeSantis will deliver on the thing that Trump promised. I'm like, Hey, I was, I was, first of all, I was there. Trump promised actually all Trump actually promised was chaos and pissing off elites, which is enough for a lot of people in fact, 10 million more people and he delivered exact and that's what people don't get is like, there's this DC like elite kind of thing to be like, no, what the voters really, and I actually was very guilty of this.

I was like, no, what the voters want is more trade policy with China. And I was like, no, actually, like, they don't give a shit about trade policy with China. I was like, they don't really care about, they don't care if you say that you're going to give healthcare for everybody and then you pass like the worst corporate tax cut in American history. I, by the way, I think it's bad, but I'm like, they don't care. I'm like, they just want to piss up before the week, the election, like a month before the election, I was driving through Reno and I drove past this farm where this guy erected

this like 60 foot sign that just said, Trump, fuck your feelings. And I was like, you know, and I talk about the sign all the time because that's kind of when it hit me. And I was like, that's actually what it's all about. I was like, that is what it's all about. And I think that's okay. I think it's okay for people to vote that way. But I just wish there wasn't all this, like, oh, like DeSantis is what the people really

want. Like they want a less funny, they want Trump without the X. I'm like, the X is the best part to those. You know what I'm saying? Like that's it. That's it. Even cheat on his wife. He can't be Kennedy.

But I too suffered under this kind of naive liberal assumption that any critique of Trump was kind of unfair and ill-conceived if you didn't talk about the policy, but it's not really about the policy. So in that way, like liberals are more cracked than I was because the Trump derangement syndrome is real and warranted on their end. Yes. No, you're right. He's responding to the force of his personality.

And that's all they care about too. Nobody cares about like immigration or trade, though those are the two things that Trump ran on and that he galvanized voters on. I'm in a tough position because I actually agree with most of what he was saying on a policy level. In fact, like I've spent my all, I guess, professional life, you know, since then advocating for many of the things that he ran on, including like better trade, you know, basically like return to more like a mercantilist trading system and end to a free trading system, a

more robust like industrial policy, decreased immigration, like all of these things. I'm like, I actually, but the other funny thing about Trump is I remember this girl I met once she was like, it's just such a tough time for the gay community. And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like Trump is the first openly gay president or openly pro-gay president. It's like I blew her mind. I actually interviewed the human rights campaign president and he said, Trump is the most. This was a long time ago before he was fired for helping cover up Cuomo's Me Too stuff.

It was back on rising and he was like, Trump is the first, the most dangerous president for LGBTQ Americans in my lifetime. And I was like, dude, Bush signed the defensive merit, you know, like I literally was there like defensive marriage, don't ask don't like, how can you say that? And he's like, Trump is attacking our identity, not just coming after us in the law. I'm like, wouldn't you rather that have that though? Like, wouldn't you rather have equality under the law and it's just be like a shitposting thing?

I just, there's like a brain worm, you know, that has taken over on this, which drives me crazy. And this takes it back to DeSantis. If you look at who's more moderate on abortion, it's Trump. If you look at the liberal at the end of the day, exactly. He knows Roe was a fucking disaster. He knows, he openly, I might be the only right wing or whatever analyst who openly was like actually repealing Roe versus Wade was a fucking disaster politically, I'm just going to be

politically precise. We're writing analysts. Yeah. I guess. Yeah. I guess you are. That's true to your credit. No, but my favorite Trump moments was when he is like quoted in the New York Times as

saying the repealing Roe v. Wade is quote stupid. Yeah. Yeah. And that's he, he has, you know, he didn't include it in his 2020 announcement for a reason. He knows it's fucking unpopular and and DeSantis today is signing a six week abortion ban. I'm like, here's the thing, man, like, what are you going for? Trump Trump can hit you from the right and be like, I'm the mind who got Roe versus Wade

done, and then the other guy in the race, Mike Pence, actually genuinely believes in a national abortion ban. So if you're pro life, like, and you're one of those people, why wouldn't you just vote for Pence? Like he at least, you know, like walks the lock or whatever. So he's just, so that puts those people in a real, I'll let you be the judge. But he did get married and have kids. So I mean, he did what they wanted to do.

Right. Yeah. I mean, they might not believe in being gay, like Nicola, do you think that DeSantis stands a chance? Oh, sure. Yeah. Actually, look, I think DeSantis, my political analysis on DeSantis is, yeah, I think he definitely would be a strong general election candidate, but I'm actually not a hundred

percent convinced that he wouldn't have the same vulnerability or different vulnerabilities than Trump. DeSantis wants to cut Medicare and Social Security, or at least he's said that before, like on Ukraine, you know, Tucker kind of got DeSantis in a real bind where he both committed to being kind of skeptical of the Ukraine consensus, but then also was like, no, Putin is a war criminal. So you know, the Hawks hate DeSantis for saying that Ukraine is not a calling it a territorial dispute.

But then people like me who are Ukraine skeptics and an increasing part also the GOP are like, hey, you're full of shit. Like you're not really with us on this. Like you're not like you're trying to. I feel like he's just a triangulator bot for whatever is kind of popular in the moment. I think you said it best. The other thing on charisma, I've never understood it. I think he's talented as a normie GOP politician, but Trump is Trump because he's on another

level. Like he's a metacultural figure who's been in pop culture for like 50 years and came up in entertainment. He's... Yeah, he is. You know, even when I met him. When I met him in the Oval Office, I see him there and I'm like, that's the guy from the fucking apprentice.

I'm like, that's unbelievable. You're fired. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. Like when you see him, he literally is like a cartoon character that's kind of like when I interact with him. He's not human.

And I mean, that's why he is what he is. I had an attachment to Trump because when I was a child, I saw Home Alone 2 as a little immigrant in New Jersey who wanted to go to FAO Schwartz in New York and he was such an incredible, charismatic figure and he had like a two second cameo where he points Kevin to like the lobby. He's like, excuse me, sir. You're like, where's the bathroom? I forget exactly what it was and he's like, it's right over there.

And I think Trump before, I mean, before he ran for president, he was a completely beloved figure. And I mean, you see that even now when the electoral cycle dies down, all the liberals and leftists are able to acknowledge that he's quote based. But the minute that there's politics happening, they have to double down on the he's a fascist authoritarian track. Right. No, you're absolutely right.

I mean, Crystal always thought she's like, look, you can't deny like he's a good, you know, he's good at what he does. You can't you can't deny it like you can't. It's not deniable. Like he he just is like he's good at it and people love him. What's it what did we talk about once the the Diet Coke tweet is like, I've never seen a skinny person. It's legendary.

Yeah, I've got diet root beer, unfortunately, which is even probably, you know, more embarrassing. But yeah, it's it's it was he was, I think Park McDougal, I think you guys know him a friend of mine. He was like, he's like a posting. He's like a posting Shakespeare, like so much of so much of his like original phrases have like entered the lexicon like big Lee and many, many such cases, many such cases and many people are saying and random caps and exclamation like, yeah, exactly. The nobody calls it a very stable genius.

The V so V so just the very stable genius of the United States. He's going to perfect phone call. He talked about the perfect phone call again. He said he made an even more perfect phone call than that last one. How do you not laugh at this shit? That's what I always wanted to say to these CNN types. I know them. Well, there's there's no point in even arguing with them.

Not because you can't convince them and in trying to convince them, you look like an even bigger idiot, but because they secretly agree with you and they love Trump too. I know that's the sad part. That's actually the saddest part because I cover the White House with all these people. I'm like, listen, guys, I'm one of the only people like I speak to Georgetown journalism students and they'll be like, how was it covering Trump? And I said it was the best time of my life. And also I owe my entire career to it and anybody who is honest and is a young journalist

who came up during those years. It's obvious. Olivia Nosey. Who gives a fuck who Olivia Nosey is without Trump? Like who gives a shit about like Daniel's piece in New York? Yes. Exactly. See what I'm saying?

She follows. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Look, Olivia, I am actually a fan. My point is, is that people like Olivia Nosey and Caitlin Collins and me and Jeremy Diamond over at CNN and my friend Gabby, like none of us would be in these places without Trump. Like that is, it is what, and I think it's okay to acknowledge that.

I'm like, yeah. The thing is, is that Trump was so chaotic and he opened up all this space that I was talking about that people like us could break into the media sphere and be like, no, actually, we're going to cover it differently. Like not every, not all the people I just said agree with each other or whatever. It's just, it's opportunity, man. And like that, that's rare. I don't know where we would be without Trump, without like Me Too having a nap and stuff,

you know? Oh man. Yeah. That's when I found out about you guys. I found out about you guys because of Me Too. We owe a lot to the Me Too movie. Yeah. We've actually circled around and decided it's good.

It's good for us. It's great for us. And I ask you about the Ricky Vaughn case. Oh yeah. Oh, sure. Absolutely. Those are my big two, the Trump indictment and the Ricky Vaughn case. I also wanted to ask you about the trans shooter.

Oh yeah, the trans shooter. Oh, sure. Okay. What's Ricky Vaughn? Yeah. Ricky Vaughn. Let me pull up my notes. So he's real name Douglas Mackey.

He just got handed a guilty verdict in Brooklyn for conspiring to deprive US citizens of their right to vote in the 2016 presidential election. Because he published a viral meme showing a black lady with a hashtag, like text your home. Vote to text. Yeah. Text by vote. Skip the line.

Vote by text. That's what it said. Yeah. He faces up to 10 years in prison. This is a case without a precedent, which is why I think it's so important. The defense argued, I get all my news from the Daily Mail, so I'm just going to quote them. The defense argued that his online antics encouraging Clinton's supporters to vote from

home over text was simply him trolling and shitposting in the hopes of going viral and gaining online clout, and they denied the prosecution's claim that it was part of any grand plan or overarching conspiracy because the idea that voting by text was patently ridiculous to anyone with a basic knowledge of US elections. Now, of course, we know that there are plenty of people who don't know that and for whom that's not right only obvious. Well, okay, let's put aside though, because that's actually, I wouldn't even argue that that's the material all the prosecution or do you want to keep reading?

Go ahead. Okay. The prop that here's the thing about that case. The prosecution never produced a single witness that said that they texted and did not vote. Right. They literally couldn't provide a single, this is literally a victimless crime because their evidence for why Ricky Vaughn, Douglas Mackey, Rikki Vaughn deprived and let's remember this is all like civil rights law like violated the civil rights of American citizens in depriving

them or trying to trick them from not voting is that 4900 people texted or called this phone number. Now, okay, like that doesn't 4900 something like that. Well, here's, okay, first of all, yeah, first of all, it's 4900 and they don't even tell you where across the country that those people are second. They could not prove that any of those people actually thought that they were voting. I mean, there's a lot of scenarios where if you saw some bullshit phone number like that, maybe you texted it and said, Hey, fuck you, you know, like you don't know, like, and here's

the best part. Love line question. Right. Sexual. Here's the other one. After this, in terms of the, if they knew the number of people who texted, then they had all the phone numbers who they interacted with and the prosecution could have called them and said, Hey, did you text this number on and say that you did you explicitly not

vote because they had all of the information available to them if they wanted to prove a real case, but instead they pointed to these messages where Ricky Vaughn was in a group chat and he was like, Oh, we're going to trick these dopey liberals not to vote. I believe that's a direct quote. He called them dopey liberals into not, I mean, look, I'm not saying that's like a good thing, but if you also look at the witness who was in the trial, I forget his name. It was some, it was like an anonymous name of the guy that they flipped on microchip. That's his name.

Microchip's the one. Microchip. And we all hit him. He's on blast. He turned into a Fed. Well, he's a Fed. Yeah. He's a Fed.

He's a coward. Yeah. He's the worst of the worst. And he was a guy. He even testified anonymously. Listen motherfucker. This ain't dumb. No, no.

That's not say that. But we were not going to find you microchip, but microchip, this isn't the fucking mob. All right. Like you should at least put your name to it. But even microchip testified and said, quote, there was no grand plan in stopping people from voting. So even the guy who flips that there was no grant, they were shitposting all of us here. Our shit posters sometimes that shouldn't be illegal.

Also Ricky Vaughn didn't even make the meme. He just he shared it. Like there are all kinds of people who also shared that meme. But you know, this is a bigger thing too. Because. All right. Go ahead. No, no, no.

It's just. Every one should be allowed to post whatever they want. That's why that's what I agree. I agree with you. I actually agree. Yeah. Is there a chance that he can mount a successful appeal and have this thing thrown out? It's possible.

There's Ottoman Brooklyn and then the appeals court there is liberal. I mean, unless this goes all the way to SCOTUS, which even at that point, like his ass is going to jail for a couple of years. And the process is the punishment. Right. Yeah. The kind of Kafkaesque torture. Exactly.

That's it. That's he's being taught his he's on his trial. I mean, it is actually chilling. And part of the problem too is this is actually standard operating procedure for the FBI. So, you know, if you go and you look at some of the Twitter files, one of some of the things that Matt Taibbi was flagging is FBI agents were sending accounts with like four retweets that were, you know, being like, hey, Republicans, vote tomorrow, which was like the wrong day. And they're like, actively, which is funny, like, I'm sorry, that that's actually pretty

funny. It may not be good, but it's hilarious. Yeah. It's like a joke. It's a joke around voting time. Right. Couldn't be more benign. Okay.

They're like, don't forget about election Wednesday. I'm like, oh, that's like, yeah, that's funny. Anyway, like the FBI is like actively flagging these like tiny ass accounts to Twitter, to Twitter, being like, you need to take this down, it's dangerous election misinformation or, you know, somebody who was like, every time someone walks in my precinct without a mask, I'm adding a vote for the Democratic Party. And people were like, oh my God, like, it's like, look, I'm sorry, like that is fucking ridiculous.

So the FBI, like a real agents are spending their time looking at this bullshit and sending it. So the future Ricky Vaughns, you're fucked, like it's not good. The bar is lower than ever. It's probably easier than ever to become an FBI agent, and it's probably easier than ever to become an informant. Anyone can be a Fed. Yeah.

I just asked the Proud Boys. Like Richard Spencer. You guys see this new Proud Boys thing? Do you know what I'm talking about? No. The Proud Boys defense, there's a trial going on. They said the defense from based on what they've been able to get from Discovery says that there were 40 up to four, no, sorry, at least 40 informants inside of the Proud

Boys. I'm like, how many Proud Boys were not feds at this point? Like, you know, like, it's literally the Spider-Man meme. You know, the one where they're like, Fed, Fed, Fed, Fed, some autistic fuck, Fed. And it's like, that's, that's, it's come to life. Like I can't, it's, it's unreal. This reminds me of like post 9-11 when they were entrapping like literal retarded people as jihadis.

Yes. Yeah. No, you're right. You know, I got to say that's another thing I feel kind of mea culpa about is I started writing originally about terrorism. I remember reading some of these cases and even then being like, man, this is pretty fuck. Cause, cause it'd be like some moron in Ohio who was 18 named Abdullah is like Allah Huwakbar.

And then he gets a DM and it's like, Hey, you want to go to Syria? You want to kill, if we fight in jihad and they're like, yeah. And he's like, well, you should buy a plane ticket to Syria. And he's like, okay, how do I do that? And they're like, steal your mom's credit card. He's like, okay. So he does it. The moment you show up to the gate, you're guilty of material support for terrorism.

Like you're going to jail for 10 years. Cause they have you actively trying to, or my favorite was like, they're like, you should, they're like, you should go and, uh, bomb a police station and, and he's like, how do I do that? And he's like, go to the store and buy these things and also go to the gun store and buy this. And he's like, and I'll meet you there. And he's like, okay.

And then the moment he gets out of the gun store, they nail you again for like inside, like literally about to, and I mean, it's basically entrapment. I don't really know. And most of us were just okay with it because it was Muslims and it was about ISIS and terrorism. But the legal, like the whole FBI, like legal entrapment thing, it's been around now for 21 years or so. And it's, it's really bad. Yeah.

I mean, the proud boys, even it seems like a snake pit of like backbiting losers who would flip on each other on a dime. And it seems like the, the FBI would even court them as informants, knowing that they have no information to give at present, but that they could be like useful resources in the future. But if somebody like Mackie goes away for this, what does that mean for the future of a political trolling and shitposting because it's not good. And you know, especially for people who are like designated as enemies of the regime and

are on these FBI watch lists, like my naive, classically liberal position also would be to argue like, well, this is, it sets a bad precedent for all of us. But again, in a way that's very naive and I'm actually wrong and a guy like Richard Spencer who posts a thumbs up emoji in response to news of the Mackie verdict is more right than I am because he knows that he and his ilk are protected that they're safe. They have nothing to fear because they operate under the dominant ideology, which is the protected ideology. Oh, you're right.

I mean, look, it's, this is the, that's the craziest thing too. You know, Mackie was indicted week one of the Biden presidency. Like they waited six years to come after his ass. Crazy. Yeah. Jan. It was like Jan 27, 2021. I went and I looked at the original indictment.

I'm like, man, they don't forget. Like if you fuck that, the ultimate crime is fucking with Hillary. It really is true. Like they will throw your ass in prison seven years later for a shitpost vote by text meme that you, that here's the, okay, not to be conceited or whatever. He only had like 50,000 fucking followers. Okay. And every person on this pod here has got like way more than that.

It's ludicrous. The idea that he influenced like so many people. Yeah. I mean, those accounts do have influence or that kind of activity. It is. It's never like someone with, you know, hundreds and thousands of followers. There's always someone like in that range where it's like the people who do follow them are influential.

Oh, one. Listen. Yeah. I look, I'm a, a well-known lurker of some very dark, dark places on the internet and I enjoy. Yeah. Is your, um, when you go on Twitter now and open up the for you tab, is it, is your Twitter just really racist?

Uh, yeah. You know, I was listening to your guys is Thomas Chatterson. He is onto something and that, well, it's because what, what he said is right. I, all I get now are just brawls like, like these mostly, yeah, unfortunately, like, you know, like, like brawls breaking out between a white guy and a black guy in a seven, eleven and like South Carol. I'm like, yo, this is so fuck, but I still watch it like fight Haven and all this. I can't stop watching this stuff, but I've always been somebody who consumes like live

leak and all that shit. So maybe it is always packed. I want to know, I want to know what anons you're following. I'm not going to ask you to disclose that here on the pod, but I'm going to get the information after, because I suspect I need to go on follow some of them. I need to, some of these, I actually, you don't have like a burner account. You're not like AOC. No, no, I, I know, you know, my original excuse was I'm a journalist and I'm just doing it

for journalistic purposes, just to like keep tabs. That's the Pete Townsend defense. I'm just doing it for research. Yeah. Like I'm just child porn. Yeah. I'm researching like whatever is going on on the right and the left. I mean, I, here's the thing, you can't deny it's, it's funny.

I mean, like right and left, some of the right and left shit posters that I follow who are pure Anon. Like I, I admire them. I think the best time I ever had on Twitter is when I had like 10,000 followers. It's like just big enough to be dangerous, but I would just fuck around. Like it was fun. I was saying, what? And I got the blue check in my, yeah, you could just say anything.

Like you could say anything and you were free. Now I have like 400,000 and it's like, if I fucking Maggie Haberman follows me and like this is too much, you know, it's like, I'm under too much scrutiny. I can always tell when you, when you want to chimp out, you had that tweet about rich guy fashion. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Look, I just want men to dress better. Like I'm sick of men looking like fucking schlubs. And uh, it's unfortunately, you know, the other problem is, is that right wing suit culture to me is also gross because they fits like shit. They look awful. You know, you guys were, you guys were, I was laughing recently because you guys were

talking about like some party that you went to, like 40 year old, and I can see it in my mind. Right. So like this is my, like it's not just that I want people to wear suits. It's like, I want people to look good and like, look, I mean, sue me. I think if this gets to the elite thing that you, we were saying about, I don't want, uh, you know, I'm not anti elite. I just think our current elite sucks is like, why are the richest people and you, you called

Elon a slob. Like it's true. You know, when Elon was up and coming, he used to wear suits. He actually looked pretty good. Something to prove. And now I think the, yes, I think the off dude, and like Bill Gates looking like shit in, in line, like that Zelensky core, like khaki drabs shirt with like the white sold sneakers, like the photo you posted of Bill Gates, like standing in line for like an impossible

burger or whatever it was. And it's giving like Larry David and semi retirement, but I think that's what it's supposed to signify. Like I'm too rich to give a shit, but this has been going on. This is nothing new. This has been going on in the tech sector for decades now. I mean, I remember my dad when he was still at the comp side faculty at Rutgers, uh, pulling me aside and being like, Anna, you know how you tell the richest guy in the room, he is

wearing $30 swatch watch because that's how these guys used to dress like the guys who decamped for the.coms and made millions and not billions. It's true. Yeah. The swatch watch. Yeah. And I think it has to do with the fact that, um, tech is now like the vanguard of wealth. Yes.

Yes. You're right. Probably that's my. I never thought I would wish for the days of the finance bros like, you know, look, they're better dressed. They're better dressed than the tech guys. Like you can at least say that. I mean, I don't know.

Like sue me. I still, I think no bless oblige was like a decent thing, at least for a while. Like there, there, like I referenced my Kaiser Wilhelm book, like it's, he definitely took it too far because he would change outfits at one point, like 20 times a day. But he understood that his only job was ceremonial and looking like spick and span. And there's something to that. Like I think there is something too. I don't want my president to be a normal guy.

That was the thing about Trump. Like he wasn't a normal guy. I think the whole. Guy in there. Well, Trump. Yeah. Like that's. And by the way, Biden look sharp too.

I have to hand it. He does. Well, he doesn't wear. He doesn't wear ties sometimes. He doesn't wear ties. I hate. The no tie. No tie there.

No. I don't mind the no ties. I love to see a guy loosen up the tie. I think. Yeah. Okay. At the bar. Not on the fucking G 20 summit.

Okay. Not at the G 20. Like there's a time and a place for the no time. It's after you finish the G 20, but soccer, you know, this type of guy that you probably see a lot of in DC and you see it, see them a lot at the more kind of upscale, like face Lord conservative functions in New York, like wearing a smidium suit. Yeah. The stance is too low.

The pants are too short and tight. The ankles are showing the whole. I want to see like, right, but that's about wall street, bro. I'm with you. No. And that's a white wall street guy who looks like he's about to go out and murder some black trans women. I mean, there is something to, I mean, I actually stole this take from the Lindy man, which

I guess is fine, you know, given how that goes and he was like, I have to have something being. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Being a Lindy and it was like the only for all of human history, nobility sought to distinguish itself through dress from the common people. We are the only time in human history where the nobility wants not only to look like a

commoner, but in some cases to look worse than the commoner. And that's actually, this, I have a lot of friends in tech, but this is where I spar with them the most. You know, they're like, well, you know, I'm worth, you know, $300 million. It's just one of those things where like, yeah, dude, but you look like shit. And like looking like shit at the end of the day is, is just, is gross. Like it's one of those where you, I'm sorry, like I refuse to be ruled by somebody like you.

Like maybe, maybe they do rule anyway. And I'm just, I'm the idiot, like left behind, but I don't know. I think aesthetics matter. And I think, you know, the funny thing too is for all the time, I get all these men who are like, you know, this guy, like this dandy in his suit never worked a day. I'm like, I'm not saying you need to wear a suit to your fucking construction job. You moron. What I'm saying is, is that whenever you go to a wedding and, you know, you ever been

to a cocktail wedding where some asshole wears a polo shirt? Like, and I look, that makes me viscerally angry. You get, wow. Like one of those. Yeah. I've, I've been to a wedding where it was cocktail dress and some guy was wearing a polo shirt truck, tucked into khakis and I was like, get the fuck out of here. Like get out.

He's really showing his bra in colors. You know, you really are. I mean, the other thing is, I feel like the reason, the reason is, you know, I'm not like the reason that rich people look like shit and often even worse than poor people now is because like anybody can sort of look rich because the whole like luxury aesthetic has been democratized. Well, that's a whole other. Yeah.

That's the other thing. Who actually buys luxury brands? Like normally rich people. Koreans. That's true. Yeah. The Russians and Chinese. It's like when you go to London and you go to Harrods and you're like, is there any like

Englishman in this, in this place? Like it's just, it's like Arabs, Chinese. It's like Arabs, Chinese and Russian. And that's why a lot of legacy brands sell stuff now that says their name and some real Yes. It's so tacky. That's like so tacky. It's horrible.

Just wearing like a saline. Do you guys follow the dye workwear or whatever? I like this guy. The menswear guy. All right. Let me shout out. Yeah. Dye workwear on Twitter.

He's a lib. There's a lot of bow tie kind of guys. No, no, no. He's not a bow tie. He's extremely, he has impeccable taste, but he's a Japanese-American lib. So you have to, you have to sit there. You just have to take the very annoying lib takes, but this motherfucker has the best suit taste that I have ever seen.

I mean, Japanese are natural fascists. So I feel like his Japaneseness probably trumps his lib harder. Even a liberal Japanese person understands honor. Yeah. He comes at, he comes at politicians with too much collar gap on their suits. I love that shit. I'm like, this, this, yeah, yeah. He knows what he's doing.

The fit. It's the only thing men have really. It's true. The only thing they have going for them in this day and age is they can wear a suit. They can fill out a suit. I got some. Yeah. You can and fodder.

Should we talk about the trans shooter? Yeah. I have to pee. Go off. Sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. Okay.

I'm going to hit your vape. Sagar, do you smoke and or vape? I don't vape. I'm a disgusting person who choose nicotine gum. Did you use to smoke? That's my only advice. No. Okay.

I just like nicotine. Does the nicotine help you? It helps you to concentrate and stuff. Oh yeah. It's one of the most powerful nootropics there is. I pretty much gave up alcohol, which, you know, I know is cringe and gay based on your sobriety episode, but I didn't stop entirely. I'm just, I basically, I gave up probably like 97% like two years ago.

You're getting married. Yes. Yes. I am. So I'll probably drink about wedding. I got, I drank at my engagement. I drank at my engagement. It's just one of those where I just get really hungover and I'm like, yeah, you know, like

I don't, I don't like feel the need. Nicotine does everything I needed to. Yeah. Like that's what puts me in the zone. Breaking points when you're hungover. Yeah. That's true. When do you guys do it?

Like what time? We roll like seven 30 in the morning. We like start thinking, yeah. So I get up like five. Oh Jesus. So you really can't afford to be drunk. No, it's funny. I actually can't.

That's kind of how it started. I was like, I can't afford to be hungover. Sogir, have you heard of the program? Don't answer that. This is a 12 step. What'd you say? This is a 12 step podcast. It's a recovery podcast.

Um, yeah, we were recovering from being libs. We're hungover, so we're recovering from being drunk. Good for you. I'm envious. I do want to talk about the trans shooter, but I have an, I want to, I want to ask you a question, which is sometimes I fantasize about being Donald Trump's press secretary. Oh, you'll be good. Could you actually kind of see that for me?

Oh, 100%. Not for that long, but I think I could do. I could take a couple. No, you could do it. You actually, so I met and I met and interacted with all the Trump press secretaries. I asked questions of all of them. Uh, Kaylee, I think you would be better than Kaylee because the thing about Kaylee was is she was slavishly devoted to him and she would try to intellectualize it without acknowledging

the funny. And Sarah Sanders, look, I, you know, I had a good relationship with Sarah. She treated me well. Like she kind of was guilty of the same thing where something about the position makes them try and they, they tries to formalize what is, is chaos. It's funny. Like, and I think that you get the like inherent humor to Trump. And so like when Jim Acosta was like, what did the president mean on Mueller?

You would just laugh at him. And like, that's what I always wanted. Like I wanted someone to just laugh at these people and just be like, you're, you're a fucking joke, Jim, like get the fuck out of here. You know, like someone, someone needed to, to call out the, the farce to its face. I'd love to point, I'd like to point a gun at them. If they let me have a gun up there and I can say, no, shut up, you're done talking. Yeah.

Like you're fucking done. That's what it needed. This is over. Right. Right. It's like the thing is, is that it was a certain, it was a one way circus where the government was supposed to be like stayed and, you know, kind of compose. But then what was happening on the other side in the press corps was just bullshit.

And I was like, Oh, this is, that's actually why I left. That's why I started rising with Crystal is I was like, I can't stand this shit anymore. I can't stand the fucking circus. I was like, I got to do something where I feel like I actually get to do news for people who give a shit about anything other than Robert Mueller's whatever, like stupid things going on. What do you think Trump would do if he ever encountered like a journalist who like shit tested him back?

What do you mean by that? Like it in what way? Just energy and momentum. Good luck. So I've tried to enter, I tried to interrupt him a couple of times and he does not like it. Like he, excuse me, excuse me, like it will, it'll just roll kind of right over. I mean, it's tough.

Like, yeah, I had this, you know, like you guys can tell I like tradition and all that. So like interrupting the president is tough. You, you, you have to kind of worm your way in there. But actually what I found at the end of the day is that the people who were the most confrontational with Trump, he would cut off that interview because he didn't find it enjoyable. You have to play to his ego. So every one of my interviews, I got 45 plus minutes while I was in there, which is eternity, like for a presidential interview.

And Washington Post people would do that thing where they'd be like, well, um, actually what you're saying, Mr. Trump is not true. And you know, the fact checker, 3,000 lies is your 3,000 first lie. And then they would, he would just cut it off. He'd be like, this is, I'm sorry, like I'm not interested in this. And actually some of the, some very damaging things that Trump ever said were interviews with me. And it was like, cause he felt comfortable with me or with Sean Hannity, cause he's

just bullshitting around. So even though sometimes I would want to, yeah, he just loves to talk like that. You just let the man talk. Do you think he'd ever come on the pod? Um, I mean, you could try, uh, Roger Stone doesn't answer my text. Roger. He's not answering. Roger and I go way back.

That's all right. Just call him. Um, Roger's a complicated figure. You know what you should do? Ask Roger about fashion. Yes. He invites everybody. I don't remember.

Um, he clearly didn't mean it. Yeah. One of the funniest things I ever did is at the daily caller is, uh, I asked Roger Stone to like, this is when Paul Manafort went to, went to prison and they released all of Paul Manafort's hideous clothes. And so I just called Roger and I had him do like a 45 minute breakdown of Paul Manafort's entire wardrobe. And I just wrote like an article, which was like, it's a world exclusive.

Like Roger Stone destroys Paul Manafort's portrait. I just want Roger Stone to answer for, um, his slander of Steve Bannon style, which is like the best style in the business. Yeah. Oh, I disagree. No, I would take, I would take Roger's dandy style. Yeah. I don't like sloppy.

But it's preppy. The double shirt drives me crazy. It's dark preppy. It's dark preppy. No, I'm sorry. It's giving effortless. No. Steve is one of those New York guys who went to LA and then imbibed like the worst of both

fashion trends. Like looking like shit. LA wise. Yeah. It's awful. Like, I despise Steve Bannon's fashion. So I, I sloppy Steve Gross Hollywood Steve. Yeah.

I have a bad feeling about, you know, I could see it. He's had a long life. He has. Yeah. He has. Yeah. So you, do you think they're going to put out the trans manifesto and what do you think it says?

Tranny fest. So I, I saw something today that said that the man, let me, let me make sure I want to see that. Hide. What are the predictions for what's in the manifesto? I'm convinced that the manifesto literally says I am trans. I love to kill Christians because I'm trans. This is the trans ideology.

Like that's what I'm really expecting it to say the way that they're suppressing it. Isn't it really like sad and sick that like the actual, this whole thing has become like a gun control debate. You know, like Kamala Harris goes down to Tennessee to like visit these lawmakers who are doing a protest, not about the dead children, but about gun, like, hey, you know, like little kids were fucking murdered in cold blood. And yeah, I mean, here, so the manifesto is still not open. I thought I saw some reporting about it, but yeah, it's been 15 days since this came out.

I mean, remember the L past here, by the way, there's a big debate in the whole like active shooter thing. Like should you release the manifesto or not? I'm because they're like, could any crazy person just shoot somebody up and get free media attention. At the end of the day, like it's obviously social contagion. And like with the El Paso shooter, they just posted it. Or remember Christ church, like, you know, whatever the Christ church one with the cold

Candace Owen shitpost reference all of that, I think, or better off having it and just looking at it and be like, okay. What are these sick freaks think? And yeah, I don't look, I think covering it up is disgusting. They need to release it. They should have released literally the day after. They're probably waiting for it to be memory holds. So they never have to release it because the longer it's already memory already like the

Twitter files. I was just thinking about what happened to the Twitter files because you were tweeting about some classified documents about the Russia Ukraine war that Crystal got your hands on. And I was like, those are going to be memory hold to like everything just gets automatically memory hold. It's really sad. Yeah, you're right.

I mean, look, this is the, I mean, by the Pentagon's own admission, it's the most significant leak since Edward Snowden. And yeah, I mean, they're not, they're going to be memory holding this shit a week from now. And Taibi got in trouble. I saw some woman yelling at him. I saw some shrill lady. Oh, Mehdi Hass, Mehdi Hassan, that's right.

She was all, I couldn't stand the way she was scolding him and stuff. I was like, it made me, I saw you Hassan was a guy or it was on the show. He is a guy. I think, I think Dasha knows that, or at least I thought she'd do that. He is a guy. Yeah. Yeah. I was willing to go with it.

No, there was a lady, there was a lady too with, no, I think she's being serious or some some broad. Yeah. With like, she had like crunchy curls and she was yelling at, there was some hearing. Oh, in Congress, in Congress, you're thinking of Debbie Wasserman Scholl. Yes. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

That's the worst. Oh, who is that? Who's that broad? She's the one who stole the primary from Bernie in 20s. She was the chairman of the DNC. This bitch. So she's, oh, she's the one to blame. Yeah.

No, it's a good point though about the Twitter files. It's like, they totally memory hold it. It was, it is disgusting, you know, the way they treated him. They called him so-called journalist. That was the whole viral thing. But also, Sagar, my really like sad and mundane hot take, that's not even a hot take, it's a lukewarm take, is that things don't get memory hold intentionally or because there's a conspiracy.

They get memory hold because of the nature of the technology, like because social media is so oversaturated. So nothing like the Twitter files is ever going to stick. Nobody cares really. I agree with you and that kind of gets to the very beginning when you were asking me about me. I just don't think like, I wish stuff mattered, but I just don't think a lot of stuff matters. And you know, I'll treat it with the seriousness it deserves because I still think it does,

but I'm not under any illusion that I'm like, like during this doc, I worked so hard on this document story, combed through, you know, reported it out, like took hours for me to get my hands on the full set comb, made sure that the best angles that I could see that weren't being reported. And I'm not stupid. Like I know in two days, nobody will care, but, but I still think it matters. You know, I think it, whatever, whatever one of the books behind me is eventually written about now, like they can look back on it and they can read it and it's there.

So I think that's good. So I think that's the takeaway from these documents that this is basically what we knew all along like a stalemate proxy war between the US and Russia. Yeah. Yeah. That's the takeaway. I mean, here's, and everyone keeps saying that they're like, well, we already knew this. I'm like, yeah, but it's, there's one thing to know it and there's another to see it in

print in highly classified intelligence. Like it's one thing to say, Oh, Zelensky, uh, we're like, like Crystal and I are always like, don't give Zelensky long range weapons because he'll bomb Russia. But it's another thing like the story that reported today when he was like, when we're spying on him, we're spying on him and he's like, we want long range missiles so that we can bomb Russia. Like there's a, to see it, you know, that we have a FISA warrant, like we're tapping his phone and he's saying this in his own cabinet.

Like that's, that's significant. I mean, I'm not, again, I'm not dumb. I know that it'll be gone like tomorrow, but you know, at least I, at least I, at least I put it out there. I think that's good. Definitely. Thank you for your service. Thank you.

Thank you. Yes. I know. Well, I guess, yeah, like it might be historically interesting or curious to people looking at it after the fact, if there are like any like historians actually around. I think when the war started was when my brain really broke. Why? How so?

I didn't handle it because of all, like in what way? I saw like when they started putting Ukrainian flags everywhere. I saw like in March of, when the year, the war even started last year. February 28th. Yeah. So like in March, I saw like a picture of like Lukashenko out on the street and I was like, I thought I fucking left Belarus, you know, like why do I have to see this shit? And then the, I wasn't anticipating the war and didn't think it would be going on this

long and it just hits some like Carpatho-Rusyn trauma fall line or something for me where I couldn't like I can't handle it. So then after that, I really, I really checked out and I had a great segment where what did you say you were like any, whatever the most pathetic social movement will always come from the art world because we were talking about like the Guggenheim where they, I forget exactly what they did, but it was like, they like threw paper planes to call for a no fly zone or something. I have to say like the best thing about the Biden administration, the one thing that I'll

give them credit for is that it really shut down all the art protest and activism because there's no Trump to react against. Yes. I mean, it wasn't an intended thing, but like you don't hear about Ritardo artists, it's doing like weird stunt protests and like signing letters or protesting letters and that. All, I don't know. All my neighbors are these types of people like one of my neighbors has a sign that says

parking for Ukrainians only and I'm like, what the fuck does that mean? It's a lot. It is so incoherent and just makes me feel like, oh my God, everyone's gone crazy. Yeah. Yeah. One lady took her Amazon package, like took, took it apart to a big cardboard sign and wrote Putin is a war criminal in red marker on it. And I was just like, I, I don't understand the mindset that like you, yeah, it's like

you took your Amazon package and you ripped it apart and you got a crayon or whatever. And then you, then you taped it to your like $2 million houses window. I'm just like, what's going on? You know, like overnight swapped out the BLM signs for Ukraine like you would change your like seasonal holiday decorations, you know, it was like very cute. Can I ask you like a gun control question? Why is everybody so pent up and pressed about gun control? Is it because gun control is like the ultimate proxy for certain taboo underlying issues

that you may have encountered scrolling your for you tab? You know, that's, well, I guess, I mean, I don't know, I don't know why I'm answering. I don't know. No, I think it's just, it seems, it seems, oh, it's just, it's the, it's so simplistic that it's like, so you need a gun to protect yourself against them. It's a meme. Well, so what do you mean gun control, like pro gun or anti gun control? Which one?

Or both? Both, both. But specifically the Libs who think that all of the active shooter and high crime issues in America boil down to the availability of guns. Well, it's a lot easier to say that than it is to be like, oh, maybe people who are plugged full of hormones are going to shoot little kids to death, like in cold blood. Or maybe, you know, the fact that Adderall prescriptions went up by 40% in the last three years has some really chaotic and weird effects on society.

Or also maybe weed is bad because, you know, by the way, so I'm on, I'm on record. I am on record as anti weed. And what I always point to is I have been for a long time is Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland shooter in his, in his plea, in his testimony. The last thing he says is, I'm sorry, everyone. He's like shaking. He's like, I was smoking a lot of weed at the time. Well, he actually blames weed.

I'm sure you've read that tablet article about how like weed is the new opiates that came out. Yeah. I actually did read that. The levels of THC, I'm a stoner, so this affects me personally. The levels of THC are so high that they're like causing, especially young men, demographically, to have psychotic breaks. It's like, it's triggering there.

So I was barrenson-pilled before COVID because Barrenson, Alex Barrenson wrote a book called Tell Your Children about weed. He wrote it in 2019. To date, it is the best book on, and he's one of those people who was like, look, you could be pro-legalization, but here's what you need to know about high THC weed that a bunch of young kids are smoking and will cause a certain part of the male population to go schizo and go violent. You should just accept it.

That is part of being pro-weed, and okay, that's fine. I don't, by the way, I don't think anybody should get thrown in jail for smoking weed, but it's one of those where we don't talk, anyway, they don't want to talk about any of these things. It's just easier. It's not like guns haven't been part of America's fabric for decades. So they're like, it's the assault weapons, even though the assault weapons ban was in place when the very first school shooting happened, Columbine, nothing has changed.

So even the way, I did a whole deep dive on this, the way that the feds classify mass shootings is bullshit. Obama changed the definition for any gun crime where three or more people are killed. Okay, four or more, but whatever, I guess they dropped it. It was four. Now we went down to three. Obama went from four to three. So what is that?

So first of all, obviously the data is going to take up after that, after Newtown in 2000, I think it was like 2013. But second, what are the vast majority of crimes where three or more people are killed? They're two things and they're both horrific. One is gang violence, so gang shooting each other. The other are husbands basically having psychotic breaks, killing their entire families and then killing themselves, which is really fucked up. And like, yeah, like that is what the vast majority of quote, mass shootings are.

And then also gun debts, they're like, there have been 80,000 gun debts in this country. The vast majority of gun debts are suicide, specifically suicide for men. It's men who shoot themselves in the head. Men are four times more likely to successfully commit suicide than women, mostly because they use deadlier methods. Good for them. Good for them. Because they don't want to be caught.

This is a good thing to talk about. They really mean it. They really mean it. Yeah, they don't want to be saved. I've never understood this. Women who try to attempt suicide do so while minding their own aesthetics. You know, like... Well, they're doing it for attention, that's why.

This is really dark to think about, but like, they always go for the pills, they always go for like the slitting the wrist. There's something about maiming the face, which women find very abhorrent when committing suicide. People who are in the... It's really odd. Anyway. You're going to want that.

That's why men... You're going to ask a funeral as a woman. I think if you're slitting your wrists, you're doing a gesture, basically. You really want to die. You are kind of your... You're risking your life to make a suicidal gesture. Anyway, men dramatically commit more suicide than women, at least successfully, four times more likely to shoot themselves, even...

So I just saw some bullshit stat. They're like, oh, like, gun deaths amongst children has risen, and I'm... Which makes you think it's school shootings or accidental gun deaths. Nope. The... And again, this is really fucked up. Vast majority of cases, it's parents killing their kids. And it's like...

It's like, people are losing their fucking minds in this country. It's not about guns. The other thing is about assault... Well, speaking of murder, suicide, I think one of the best understood, well-documented reasons men snap and kill their families is because they're in a lot of debt. It's often a financial crime, not like a psychotic break. It makes you think... I'm glad you said that.

Actually, it's like... You're right. Which is one of the contributing factors often is like, I can't provide anymore. I can't take it anymore. I'm just going to take everybody out with me. Look, it's horrific, it's really... The more I read about it, the more I became depressed because I'm like, oh my God, everybody in this country is on anti-depressants and Adderall and smoking weed and had to throw

that in there. And just listless in their lives and, yeah, in debt and doesn't have the opportunity to buy a house and is on a dating app feeling like they hate their lives and there's... Yeah, unfortunately, there's a lot more violence. And the Assault Weapons Band thing, too, I actually said, I got some heat from this, I was like, I actually think it would cause more crime because what we were talking about, Waco and Ruby Ridge, do you remember why they went into the Waco compound? It was a bullshit gun charge which stemmed from gun control.

Everyone tries to justify it over like David Koresh was doing, I'm like, that's not a legal pretense to go into somebody's fucking hat, like, okay, you can go in for that purpose, but that's not why you went in. Ruby Ridge was the same thing. The Feds suspected him. It was also an entrapment scheme. He got off in a court of law, actually, whenever they tried to try him for like sawing off a shotgun, like two inches short, gun restrictions are just pretexts for the Feds to fuck with

people that they don't like. So I'm against basically almost all gun control for this reason. I really don't think gun availability or any of that has literally anything to do with the amount of crime that we're all seeing right now. I mean, you know, there's like a conservative meme. You can say literally, right, because it's the easiest and most efficient way to kill a bunch of people. Well, I'm saying at this point, I'm saying like at this point, enacting gun control would

not have any, sure, you could do the Australian model, like you want to take everybody's guns away, then yeah, that'll definitely happen. I definitely don't, but I'm just playing devil's advocate. Also I think. Sure. I mean. Because it's like a social contingency. People who really want to kill like school children, we'll find, you know, we'll find

a way where there's a will, there's a way. Well that guy in Japan, remember, he like went and stabbed a bunch of people. He stabbed 26 people. The stabbing are more common in other countries, but it's easier to stop a stabber. You know, it is. Definitely. Listen, very true, but we, they don't have a second amendment and also they don't have more guns than people.

Like we have to deal with the reality of what we have. Like we have a, it's a constitutional. This is another thing on red flag laws. I'd be curious to hear what you guys think because I always hear people like, oh, red flag law. Imagine it. So the second amendment is in the constitution. Okay.

All right. So red flag law, the red flag law is the idea that you, people around me could be like soggers acting crazy. We should take his guns away so they can report me to the government state government and they would have to prove through like a quasi-judicial process that I am not in my right mind and thus my gun should be taken out of my house. Well, you're basically establishing this quasi-judicial system to take away somebody's constitutional right.

Like imagine, imagine, Anna, if you were like, Dasha's acting crazy and you went to a judge and you got two or three people to testify to that and they could, and they could strip her of her right to freedom of speech. Her bomber jacket that she bought, you're like, she's lost it. Like she's with the bomber jacket. She's a threat to herself. Can you take away her bomber jacket? She might pass in an obscene style news.

Take away her business annex and give it to me. Right. Exactly. But that's quasi-judicially what you're doing. Like gun laws are on the books where if you've been convicted of a crime, then your right to your second amendment can be violated. But red flag law is like somebody who has committed nothing. Like you're setting up a process where based on somebody's word, they can say like, oh,

you know, it's kind of like committing someone to a mental institution. The bar for committing someone to a mental institution is because that's depriving of some of their civil rights is way higher than some of these red flag laws on the books. All you need is like one psychiatrist to say like, oh, he's not in his right mind and they'll take it away. And then when, how do you get it back? You know, like, is the guy really, are they ever going to come forward and say, yeah, he's cool now.

He can get his AR-15 back. Like once they have a process, they're going to use it against you. The process is the punishment. That's how I'm going to get it. It is. Yeah. They'll take away your gun rights. True.

They'll take away your re-assignment. There's something to that. Right. Do we, I was going to ask you about Israel, but I don't think I want to get into all that. You can. I'm already canceled in Israel, so. You're anti-Israel.

I'm just like, I just don't slavishly devote myself to their defense. Like I've been to Israel, Israel's a nice place, but I just look at it like any, I look at it like Zimbabwe. You know, like if Zimbabwe did something fucked up, I'd be like, oh, they did something fucked up. Yeah. And then, but for some reason, Zimbabwe's not even a good example, because even that's politically hot.

I don't like Brunei. Okay. Like somewhere where it's like, we, I don't care that much about it. Whereas you guys know the debate is, it's like, you know, one, my favorite was, I think I said something against anti-BDS laws on the books. Like in Texas, if you're a state employee, you can't be pro-DBDS and I was like, hey, like this is obviously bullshit. I was like, you can't come to our country and tell us what we can do.

And you know, of course, like, they're like, oh, this is anti-Semitic and all this stuff. And I probably won't be able to visit Israel again, but whatever, that's fine. They cry out as they hit you. I realized, like when I was thinking that I would ask you about the, the BB judicial reforms that I actually also don't really care. And I'll just go on Twitter and find out from, from, but you know, there's like this whole judicial, there's all these going on in Israel and Netanyahu has to make a coalition with the ultra orthodox, which he doesn't want to do because they're retarded religious

outlets and also on welfare and not, um, they don't serve in the military. And he's like, yeah, I feel like you guys would really like the orthodox Jews. Like, you know, have you guys ever been, have you guys ever been over to Israel? Like to see in this divide, it's really, so the reason the secular Israelis hate the orthodox because like you said, they're like welfare queens. They have like five or six kids. They refuse to fight in the military while the secular Jews have to fight in the middle, which sucks, right?

You have to give up like two years of your life and all the modern secular state of Israel. Right. So yes. They like take all the tech tax dollars and are spent on some orthodox guy with like nine children, like there's no job like, oh, well, they deserve a veto as a tree. And in this case, I agree because we owe the modern state of Israel to them. Yeah.

Um, I don't, I don't think that I would love the, the ultra orthodox. Um, oh, just, I wasn't more talking about their, like their laissez-faire lifestyle. I've seen them walking around Jerusalem. I'm like, you motherfuckers don't do anything. I'm like, what do you do all day? I don't get it. They're really oriental people. I mean, the Haasids and, and Brooklyn.

I had a tough time with the Haasids and Brooklyn. Yeah. They were always kind of getting it reminded me of paying attention to me because they don't look at women and they're all gay, they're all gay. And some of them look so good to me because they do. They kind of have a nice suit fit, honestly. They do have a nice suit. You're right.

You're right. They dress nicely. Yeah. But they're not well groomed. They're not the, you know, the, the hair and all that. It's not, it's not. The babies are really cute. Right.

Yeah. Also, their women shave their heads and wear wigs, which I just think is so weird. It's really weird. Like aesthetically, it just looks awesome. Well, they don't teach them to speak English. Right. I know. Yeah.

But okay. I'll, I'll ask you maybe like one last question. Okay. Sure. Whatever you want. Do you think that Civil Rights Act was one of the biggest self-owns of American civilization ever visited upon itself? You know, it's funny.

When Christopher Caldwell first wrote that, I remember being like, like kind of taking a back and like, like, def, like defensive, right? No. Yeah. But then you get more. And the more. Yeah. And then the more, I mean, look at what happened to Douglas Mackie, right?

I mean, like, look, they literally got him on the vote on a civil rights provision on votes. So look, like, I don't know. I mean, if you look at it from a pure like standpoint of like what they were trying to solve, like obviously noble and just, but like the infrastructure built on top of it, yeah, I think it's a disaster. And I do think like Caldwell, Richard Hanania and others like have a point that like DEI and diversity, equity, inclusion and all this stuff is like deeply rooted in the like quote,

unquote, like second American founding of that. And I don't know how to square that, right? Because I'm not also like, well, let's, you know, just repeal, you know, like bring back the ability to for states to do whatever the fuck they want, you know, whenever it comes to voting. It's almost the same, it's almost the same, like a similar problem to the repeal of Roe B. Wade. Like you can't, you can't take away this precedent that we're not going back.

But the DEI stuff is so new compared to the Civil Rights Act. Yes, but the understanding of, well, it's the understanding of like the like equality of what, you know, like equity, like the entire idea of equity genuinely is born of like affirmative action and like bus, you know, like bussing, like encoded. It's baked into the like very infrastructure of the original understanding of like the truth and reconciliation aspects of the civil right, like post civil rights era. And like, like, yes, some of it was well-meaning, but it has morphed into this fucking monster. Like, and I just, I don't know where to go from here.

Like I really don't like, in a sense, like, Kendi is the most honest about what it all is. Like, I'm like, yeah, like that is where it goes. It goes to the Department of Anti-Racism. Like that is, that is the end result. Like, yes, because at least they're honest, yeah, they're honest. But yeah, I was, I was hoping that you had like a take on where to go from here because I don't, but I don't think anybody does.

Yeah, I don't presume to know. I'm just, I'm just like you, I just laugh at whatever's going on and exist. We're all just political analysts here at the end of the day, so we can only really deal with the news as it comes and Trump's going to be on Tucker tonight, so. Oh yeah. Is he? Yeah. Oh, I'll be fine.

Okay. Another news source for me. You guys should get Tucker on your podcast. He would never. He does his show. Yes, he would. He absolutely would. I want to go on Tucker today.

He's like that. You want to go on Tucker? Like his day time. Oh yeah. I mean, oh, oh, on the, uh, huh? They asked us to go on Tucker today. They did. Yeah.

When? Like a while ago. Why'd you say no? I think it didn't seem prudent at the time, but now it's seeming like a better option. Oh, I get it. I get it. I also just met a Tucker producer, so I'm sure it could be arranged if you wanted to go down that road.

What do we have to lose? You guys should go. I want the road. I'd love to see that. Rogan would be a better fit. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's one.

Yeah, I know this. With Rogan. Yeah. I'm going to start MMA fighting so soon. You know, Rogan does love succession though. I'm not sure if you know that. Rogan loves succession. Okay.

That's a possible end. Interesting. Yeah. All right. I'll use my publicist skills. Yeah. Yeah. You're publicist.

I know. Calm for you. Take the wheel. Okay. Thank you so much for coming on our show. Thanks guys. We learned a lot. I really enjoyed it.

Thank you. We learned a lot. Explaining everything. Oh, that's what I do. So, Gaze, please give me more appreciation. I feel like I'm underappreciated. That's my last word to hear. You heard him.

Bag. See you in hell. Thank you so much for coming on our show. Thank you so much for coming on our show.