Red Scare - Nuzzi Salute

Episode Date: November 21, 2025

The ladies discuss Dasha's recent controversy and Olivia Nuzzi's comeback. This episode is sponsored by ALP Nicotine Pouches. Enter promo code DASHA for 10% off your next order. Any opinions, jokes, or statements about ALP made outside of official ad read are solely those of the hosts and do not represent ALP, its products, or its company policies.

We're back. We're so bad. What a week it's been. It's so over. How's it going? How's it going? How are you doing? She is.

I've nothing new to report. I'm okay. I was really bad. Yeah, I know. I know. I don't blame you. Swoke is back. Oh, yeah.

But. No, it's, is woke in the room with you right now. It's been a whirlwind, but I think it's all going to be okay. Yeah, I had no doubt that you would come out on top, but. I mean, obviously, that's easy to say. Life is long. Yeah, and it's like a series of ebbs and flows. Damn, I sound like such a faggot.

I mean, it's true. But yeah, from the outside looking in, from the jump, it looked like an outrageous and like ill-conceived cancellation attempt. I mean, but it's kind of not even an attempt. I get, like, well, everyone has. Many attempts. We talked about this with the Kimmel stuff. Yeah. Which I'd like to point out, I took a very principled free speech stance because I do believe in that.

And I was like, we shouldn't be. canceling Kimmel. Yeah. And he wasn't canceled at the end of the day. And he wasn't canceled. But everyone just has different like definitions of what cancel culture is like depending usually on like their personal experiences. Right. Like for Dave Portnoy it's like when they release a sex tape or, you know, if you lose your job for. But basically yeah, like losing a job, which I did. Uh huh. And then losing my representation. Which I did. Yeah. It's kind of like, feel like. I feel like. I feel like. Like it checks the boxes of being canceled. Definitely, yeah.

But I think that's the main criteria. Did you lose a livelihood over it? And you can make the point that your main livelihood and source of income is your podcast. But at the same time, that wasn't nothing. I wouldn't even call it a side hustle. It's just like a parallel career. Yeah. Right?

Yeah, definitely not a livelihood for sure. But no, but that's not true. It is part of your livelihood to make some income off of acting and writing and filmmaking. Well, I can still do those things. Right. But, yeah, I lost some income that I would have had had I done this film. Which, by the way. I mean, I really want to.

Yeah, I don't know how much you want to talk about this or what you want to disclose and we can like cut whatever. Um, I'm just trying to be really careful because it's like, okay, I do understand why my Hollywood tele agency would drop me. Absolutely. I'm not like crazy. I'm not like, what? Yes. What do you mean? And if it had happened after we had Nick on, which no one really cared about. Uh-huh. Or kind of at all. Definitely not my reps.

Yes. Maybe they secretly did, but they didn't trans. You know, no one was like, you really did it this time. Right. The delay and then like the sequence of events. And then I knew it was this guy. Right. Because someone texted me and was like,

because he's, I know that he's emailed me. my reps before and he's kind of like had it out for me. I didn't realize how how tangled the what was the headline. It was like uh the thorny, the long thorny road to Dasha's Hollywood shunning. Yeah. Just the all the language. I don't feel like you're exactly shunned from Hollywood. And in a weird way, when people try to cancel other people and succeed to varying degrees. They often, like the counselor often comes out looking worse than the canceled. And also they often say it's not like they do a solid, but they, but you come out, the canceled comes out better off than they would to begin with. Yeah. I often,

I think you can parlay. But that's a recent development. That wasn't the case when like cancel culture first took off and people had not only their livelihoods, but their lives ruined. Yeah. And you're right. I did work as an actress from time to time. Yeah. But definitely not enough to warrant like an article about me getting dropped. Like that seemed a little, it felt like I was kind of collateral damage.

Yeah. In a fight that wasn't really about me. say more well because no one cared about Nick until Tucker had him on right yeah um and then that kind of sparked like a snowball effect I don't know I just seemed like it just made sense of course yeah I mean and the guy like took that as his opportunity to strike even though he'd been sharpening his knives for years and like writing emails to your reps my first thought when it happened was like bitch like how are you going to get fired by people who work for you.

First of all, yeah, you don't get dropped from your agency. Like, you pay these people to find you jobs. Yeah. They're taking a cut of your income. Yeah. But they can drop me. They don't have to represent me. I would have dropped me a while ago.

Yeah, I mean, that's the other thing, like the gray area or fine print. It's like, I guess technically they're under. obligation to continue working with a person who like ostensibly on paper violates their views or commitments or quote spreads hate in the industry which I don't think you were doing because you were working in a parallel industry I mean I mean I don't think I was really spreading hate at all like at all yeah even in the lucrative world of podcasting. Yeah, and originally, like, my feeling was that you should go on record and tell your side of

the story. But I don't even know if there's a point to it because this guy ended up coming out of it looking so bad that there's really no defending him. Like, even people who hate you and who are like, she sucks and I don't want to defend her. It's crazy. the sky looks like such a bitch made loser like the most clear-cut villain in the story and because yeah I was kind of like well first I got really drunk uh-huh then you took some clans then the next day I did like a benzo you know blackout kind of just just going to sleep through it then I kind of

start to get my bearings back. And then I was like, okay, like, this really blew up. Yeah. So I feel like I should say something. Yes. And people kind of told me not to, because they said it would go away if I didn't say anything. But it didn't. It kind of didn't.

And also, if I do say something, it goes away also. Right. Eventually. It just, like, there is, like, soundness to, you know, if you don't want this to be protracted, just stay quiet. Which I really didn't. I was, I found it all very like the quote shunning, the public shaming aspect of it. Not just like if they had dropped me discreetly.

Also, I've been like functionally blacklisted basically for a while. And I could have just been dropped, you know, quietly. And that would have still been kind of sad because it sucks to feel like, on a personal level, just like a band, you know, an agent to someone who like believes in you. Yeah. And that's the word. That's the real. That was the most upsetting part of the movie. Yeah.

I had a very long relationship with my agent. Yeah, who I know. Yeah, we both. Yeah. Who I'm friendly with. That's crazy. Yeah. I'm grateful to him for even sticking with me for so long,

but the way that all this transpired was just like, pretty unprofessional. Poor guy. He had enough of us roasting him and his dog on the podcast. But I read the Hollywood Reporter article. Right. And then that piece dropped and I was like, oh, maybe I don't have to say anything because this is like,

what? And I knew it was this guy. Uh-huh. And I was told that it was a contributing factor, but it wasn't the reason, which I guess is true-ish. Yes. But basically you had accumulated all this ill-will. From this one guy. And they finally took the bait and dropped you or whatever.

But I read that article. And I couldn't really tell whether the reporter who wrote it agreed with the guy or his views. but even he couldn't help but make him look bad and absurd. I think the whole article is like washed in pathos for this guy. And I think partly they were so kind of thirsty for a story. Yeah. And I was given them nothing. Right.

And then this guy obviously he wants the press. Mm-hmm. He calls up Seth Abramovich or whatever. Yeah. And he's like, I'm the guy. He calls up his cousin, Hollywood reporter.

He's like, not even. His BFF. Obviously, I'm like so sorry that this happened to you, but, it's okay.

I'm glad I could capitalize off of your misery. And if this is all it takes, I will continue sabotaging your career. That's also, that's so insulting. when people say that you like I mean it's insulting to you because it's insulting to the both of us

yeah because it makes me look like a vile and malevolent bitch who's like secretly jealous of you and trying to run you off the road and it makes you look like a gullible and retarded bitch who's just going along with puppet master anna who's like dasha we need to have Steve Bannon Steve sailor Curtis Jarvin you need to get your Ronsage level. You're not racist enough for me. I mean, you didn't even want to have Nick on the pod. I know.

Well, that's the funny thing. I was begging. It was your idea. And I think we had our first disagreement over it. And it was pretty amicable, which is why I love you, because you're easygoing. And it's always chilled. But like, well, I played the hospital when I got out of the hospital. Yes.

I said. But like, I didn't even want to have this guy on. And I'm glad we did it. And I have to say a lot of people. are going to be mad at me. I liked the guy personally, and I enjoy talking to him. You're talking about Nick Fuentes. Yes. We're talking, yeah. And we've had, um, just as bad people on the podcast before. Uh, the difference is that he is by far the most famous. Influential. And he's also the most critical of Israel and the Jews. And I don't

have a problem with anything that he says about blacks, women, Jews, any other group. I don't think that it's that scandalous or disqualifying. And I can tell when he's joking versus when he's being serious. My issue with him historically was about the role he serves in the zeitgeist or whatever you want to call it because I was worried that he was a guy who was basically driving a wedge in the right to make it easier for the left to win. And I even said that to his face, not because I wanted to grill him or give him a hard time, but because like I could not respect myself at the end of the day if I didn't take it up with him. I told him I was a phylo-semit. Yeah, but on that episode actually. On the whole like a pretty... You agree with Nick on more

stuff that I do for sure. Yeah, like, and I thought it was a pretty, like, interesting and compelling conversation. And I think we got a lot out of him that most people wouldn't have. And when people say, oh, it was a softball interview, I don't necessarily think that's the case. It's just like, A, we're women. So we're automatically going to be more agreeable and conciliatory in the tone we take in the way that we communicate. They want me to cry like Adam Freeland. Yeah, they want they want us to go and scold and attack him and corner him so that he's like, fuck these weird and annoying bitches.

I'm being ambushed. I didn't want to do that to him. Of course not. I wanted him to be able to speak his peace and let people draw their own conclusions. You can't tell us like Trump said. As Trump said, yeah. That I was in a little bit of a benz-o-haze when that happened. but I daddy gave everyone permission to say that it's okay to interview Nick Fuentes he said you can't

tell him who to interview let people decide for themselves let people speak yeah and yeah like now you know just today they were sharing a new clip where he talks about how we need to destroy the GOP and replace it with like a left right populist coalition the left has to give up immigration and the right has to give up Israel um and he's a smart guy. He's 100% right about the GOP, by the way. It's rotten and corrupt and

dead in the water and beholden to the donors. But he also... I don't think he's right about Trump. Well, but he 100% also knows that asking the left to give up immigration is like asking the GOP to give up Israel. It's, you know, a non-starter.

It's a deal breaker with them. It's not happening. And he 100% knows, I think, that in any populist coalition, things get pushed leftward versus rightward, and he knows that and doesn't care. That's not always, that's not necessarily true. I mean, more will be revealed also. I saw Dinesh D'Souza saying he's finally coming out with the national socialism part of his whole project, and he is really a Nazi that this whole populist thing is, you know, going to, he's

saying like the mirror of what you're saying where he's like, it's going to make things more. authoritarian right. Yeah, I don't. Or his aim. I mean, again, yeah, more will be able. I don't know. I don't, you know, it's just, it's not really. But remember on that episode when I was like at the end, well, what do you say to the people who claim you're a democratic operative? And he got kind of miffed and upset and was like, oh, come on, Anna, I don't know what you mean. You don't have to do this. We just had a nice conversation. And like, again, I really wasn't trying to like put him on the spot or make him feel bad or anything. like that, but he definitely knows what I'm talking about. Well, people accuse him of it. Yeah. So he's aware that he has that reputation for sure. Yeah.

It's true. Yeah. And so, again, I like the guy personally. They'll, I'll say it, but I'm very skeptical as to what his role is within American politics moving forward. And I like, you know, he's young and talented. and I hope that he is a force for good and not a force for bad. But what about my career?

And what about my career? What about my showbiz? My feeling about that is that you will triumph in the end. I told you that right away. And I feel like it's very, I mean, I think people come to you and they're like well-meaning and want to comfort and console you. And it's hard to see how things will play out when it's happening to you. course it feels like unpleasant and overwhelming to have so many people talking about. Even when people have your back, even when they are on your side, it's still kind of unpleasant

to have that much exposure. Well, it's just, I was supposed to be in Utah. Yeah. Candice Owens take note, maybe something to look into there. This, I wasn't even supposed to be here right now. I was supposed to be working on this movie, which I was supposed to be working on this movie, which was cast in also a while ago. The Fuentes up came out a while ago. I was living my damn life. Yeah. It's so stupid.

And then I was told, yeah, like, we're, you don't have reps and you should hire a crisis publicist. Yeah. And I was like, why? You don't have Jews. So you should hire more Jews. Yeah. They're like, we're already taking the Jews you have away,

but we're going to get you, if you want, you can pay, you can pay. You can. pay this one to I don't know I said I don't want a crisis publicist I don't want a crisis yeah what do you mean like it was before the art even I was like oh and then I got a text that was like hey I'm writing an article for deadline blah blah and I was like oh my god yeah and a little bit honestly I kind of feel like somehow Yimbies did it uh that's what?

Because I've been, because they did it to try to demoralize and distract me because I was getting too close to uncovering major corruption at the Department of Buildings. I was going to expose on my substack or something. I don't know. I was gearing. I was like,

what they, being a lot of really salient points. And they should start a substack where you would crash out and make like oblique references to all the people who are trying to ruin you. but I don't know if you believe the Hollywood reporter wasn't the Yimbies was this guy which okay by the way I'm gonna white knight you here's a few facts about him so he's like a failed actor turned a failed producer

and he's been on this like tireless years long messianic quest to get you dropped by your agency this includes email and Instagram campaigns I don't think they mentioned his porn but he was in a bang bros video he's done yeah why okay how

how are there it's disgusting multiple interchangeable fat disheveled bespectical Jewish guys who hate us and are communists

so much and somehow do porn and or are gamers wait who else did flora is not Jewish but also similar vibe. I guess Noah Colwyn and John Gans. They don't do pornog- They're not pornographers.

But they should. Oh, it's just the low, like I... The four horsemen of the Jew Poclopclips. It's so depressing because it's just so low. Yeah. And I guess you get the haters you deserve, so. He listened to years of the podcast to, like, presumably gather dirt on you. Well, no, he kept emailing Gersh.

They kept ignoring him. Yeah. All the little details about the Gersh agents originally ignoring him when he started. And then they started to look at his stories. He got the journalist to look at his stories. Yeah. And it's just like so pathetic especially like the whole the whole pretense of it is pathetic to begin with. But the fact that this all unfolded through like casual social media interactions makes it even more pathetic.

Exactly. It's not even like a proper scandal really. It's all kind of just this gross internet proxy of a scandal. Human centipede. Yeah. And like again, you know, all of this over a woman who on the last episode, which I'm sure he listened to, was bemoaning the fact that she couldn't bring herself

to shell out for a $400 dice and... Who didn't even meet the earnings threshold for health insurance? Like, I'm more successful than he is, but that's not really saying much. Like, why are you jealous of someone that's not even that successful of an actress and why ruin them? Well, yeah, and there's this negative, like, inverted parisocial element where he has, like, a fixation, obsession with you. but he's also a man, not a woman, so it's not straightforward jealousy.

It's also probably sexually tinged. Well, I think he clearly has kind of like Flores, who I hate to even invoke, because, but I think there's a, there's a sadomasochistic kind of like. Yeah, he has a humiliation thing, clearly. So they go after me because then they know all. Because he hates himself, yeah.

Because he hates himself, and then inevitably I take the bait and then do a little verbal humiliation. I know they're just coming in their pants. Yeah. So you can't even give them that. You can't even strike back. I know. Because these perverts come in their fucking pants.

Yeah. If you talk about how they're gross and wrong. They're abhorrent. I know. And it's like basically like I told you girls. So essentially he's a covert narcissist who's bitter over his lack of success and seething over your success relative to him. and the only solution he can come up with to like seek psychic relief is to like wage a jihad against you and steal something from you while like assuming the pretense of a moral high ground because you're a bad and bigoted and racist person who's sowing hate in the industry which is not what the industry stands for it stands for gay race communism even though he's been emailing them for years so they know what i've been up to

too. Yeah. Doesn't reflect so well really on them either. Yeah. And like, you know, they like cave to some like deadline pressure. Yeah.

Once he teamed up with some juror journalists. Yeah. I mean, this is like the perfect storm. But it just goes to show how even if the person that you're trying to cancel is a total piece of shit and there have been some total pieces of shit that have been canceled, you are a much worse piece of shit. shit if you try to cancel somebody.

Yeah. Because the effort, the energy it takes to do that to somebody can be parlayed into doing something positive for yourself. And constructive for yourself. Like, why do people not realize this? It's...

And you can say whatever you want about you or me. Like, my crusade against the Department of Belving. Yeah, or like the show. But I don't think there's ever been an instance where we've meddled in outcomes. I mean, we just don't have the executive function to do that. We can't be, I can't even, you know, I don't think I'm like the best, you know. Yeah. I think I'm like relatively pure of heart.

I can be a little like, obviously it can be a little of a troll. And I, I guess I'm selfish because I place like my self-expression above, you know, uh, polite, you know, polite society. Sure. Um, which maybe isn't virtuous. It's not not virtuous. It's Randian. It's Nietzschean.

It's, yeah. But I'm not Machiavel, you know, I'm not like scheming. I don't have some grand plot that this guy foiled. Like, I was making. trying to do like one to two indie movies a year and kind of just you know do my podcast the fuck I just I don't think I'm a victim I don't I don't I'm I don't want to sound like a victim because I really don't think I'm a victim in the traditional sense yeah sure but I think this character is quite villainous in the story of

my shunning. But carmically just, yeah, whatever, yeah, I don't really believe in karma exactly, but yeah, there's an energetic kind of like poison. Yeah, well, this is something that I really try to get across that, you know, nobody really hears because it's convenient to ignore it. But when I try to like defend myself or I try to defend us against, like bad faith smears, it's not primarily because I'm mad and feel like the victim, though when people were replying to you and being like, oh no, bitch, you mad.

It's like, yeah, you should be mad. Why wouldn't I be mad? That's the normal natural response. This is something. Why wouldn't I be mad? Again, leftists love to get mad at like retarded and meaningless bullshit. and then like scold and lecture other people when they get mad for perfectly reasonable reasons. Yeah.

Like their, their livelihood being threatened or crackheads infesting their playgrounds and so on and so forth. But even that aside, what I'm trying to like telegraph to people is it's not about me or you or any person who's like the quote victim of, It's not even The woke mob Sure

The woke one guy It's about you It's about them In the immortal words Of Daddy Dimitri How do you permit yourself To behave this way For your own sake, for your own good

I know I know it's scary And I unironically think That the world would be a better place if people focused more on themselves. Not in like a selfish or narcissistic way, but if they like worked more toward things that they wanted to accomplish their goals, their ambitions, instead of like doing muck-raking to ruin other people's lives.

I think they just need to maybe not focus on themselves, but just scale it down and focus on like the people in their immediate vicinity. Yeah. Their family, their friends. you know like you need people ought to be living like sacrificial for the people in their lives and trying to do something good on a small scale instead of getting on some moral high horse about how someone's a Nazi how I'm a Nazi like what are you talking about yeah I'm not a Nazi that's retarded yeah it's a completely like obsolete term that people wield to

de-person their so-called opponents. It means nothing in this day and age other than bad person I don't like. And typically, I think, wielded by a schizophrenic person who's detached from reality, who's exactly the kind of person that, you know, an agency ought to, like, be protecting their clients from. Yes. And not like, or, you know, at least just kind of like, dismissing because they're not credible.

I imagine that even if you're like an actor or entertainer who never speaks about politics and is totally neutral in the public forum, you get like

weird parisocial freaks who like stalk and harass you and agencies must factor this into their calculus of representation, right? I guess I kind of I don't know

I got the sense that no one wants There was no one like really Account they felt like there was no like accountability And there was some Like just like gaslighting And like Obscurentism about what was like happening Yes

Which is partly why it was so upsetting Yes Kafkaesque I mean it was like I was like Because really what I got in trouble for was ostensibly having Nick Bontas on five weeks ago or however long ago it was but really it was like that I got this job that was announced in deadline

and anytime I do anything people get mad so that's what was Kafka asked about it as I was like oh I got the booking is what got me unwrapped which is what I was trying to do irony I thought we were all working towards a goal of me booking,

but then the booking paradoxically was my downfall. Yeah. It's like the thing. I think we said this on the last pod about how like getting a college degree is supposed to ostensibly bring you closer to certain financial milestones, like having a baby and owning a home. But ironically, it works to take. you further from those goals.

Yeah. It's like the same thing. And I'd still be with Gersh if I didn't book a job. Yeah. And a lot of people were trying to make the case. Your haters obviously were trying to make the case that you weren't profitable for them to begin with, which is really why they dropped you, that it was a purely economic consideration that they kind of build as a political decision or whatever.

But realistically, most. clients of agencies are unprofitable. I mean, it may, it, you know, yeah, I wasn't bringing in a lot of money for the Curse Corporation for sure. But then why they are, then why the article? Yeah. Why not? Well, I think like, unfortunately, people are addicted to, um, drama and gossip.

And this is probably the most exciting thing that's happened. That's crazy too. that's crazy oh well whatever yeah and in a way this like raises your profile but in this purec victory sense I mean

I don't actually I don't want to do like the aerial pink like you know canceled the maggot tour where I you know you know what I think

I think you should have an anti-Semitic meltdown John Galliano I mean, I wish I don't, I don't wish, but I don't, I don't have it in me. Yeah. I'm really not like, I mean, like I said, to Nick Fuentes on that very episode, like I'm, I am kind of, I am phylo-Semitic. Yeah.

I prefer their company. I like dealing with them. Yeah. Yeah. For the most part, it's, we, we have, I have a good relationship with the Jewish. community but Anna I have to tell you something what's that uh oh uh oh um

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unless you live in California. If your counselor had some Alps on his nightstand. Oh, yeah. He might have thought twice about waging this unfortunate campaign. Well, I don't want to defame him because he does seem litigious. So I'm not going to say. Yeah, we won't say anything libelous or defamatory against him or his tribe. I wouldn't have.

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it's exactly the kind of thing I've been looking for yeah I am really legitimately excited to try them me too I wish I had one now and because what does that Marlboro Gold done for me lately? Jack shit. We should do an entire podcast, like, high on Alp pouch.

I think the 9 milligram is crazy. That's, you can't get Zinn in 9 milligram. I'm going to get really stoned and then pop an Alp. Pop an Alp and throw up. Yeah.

The norovirus is acting up. You're not even going to care because you're going to be feeling so good. I'm excited to give me to my husband Because well The smoking is one thing But the elf bar for me Not so great

Yeah Didn't you have a horrible allergic reaction to it You cancelled yourself I did twice Twice And they're getting really hard to get I have to like go They like I think it's

You can't sell the flavored don't know what's going on with the smoke shops but you literally I have to like show them you know or I have to tell them exactly what flavor they won't just like you know you have to like because they think you're a cop you have to really come in and be like I want and they don't even make snoo ice anymore which is my favorite flavor um so I'm looking for nicotine alternatives and this is it folks you know God might close the door uh-huh But he might give you a nicotine patch to make you feel better. I'm going to bust that shit open, crush it and snoring.

Anna, no. I'm going to be high on Alp on the F train, menacing people. For sure. Our salvias, our PCPs, sponsorship. Yeah, wearing like, size 13 shoes. This guy's the limit. Did you see that? leaving an umbrella around in a menacing fashion.

You see they're making fake Birkins in Belarus. No. A state-owned purse company is making Birkins you can buy for 400 rubles. Which is like what in USDA? Two dollars. Nothing. But they don't even ship to the U.S.

So I'm not getting my hopes up. But that would be, that would be awesome. I was ready to pull a Marjorie Taylor Green and turn on Trump. because the tariffs hit me real hard. They removed the de minimis restriction, whatever that means. So now if you want to ship anything from Europe, like a pair of Alberto Fasciani boots,

which I'd be wearing because it has a fashion name. And the footbed is very comfortable and they're very stylish. Anna, please. I can't do another ad reading. You're leaving money on the table here. We could be. They slap you with like an additional surcharge. And it's usually pretty.

pretty high, but not high enough to make you return the order, I guess. Can you Klarna the tariff? Definitely. Nice. So I was spending my rules about that, but then I realized that actually President Trump did me a solid because he did truly cure my shopping addiction. I just shop way less now because I get hit with a tariff. Thank you, Mr. President. He's so right about everything.

I mean, if I owned a business, I'd probably be not so stoked. But as a consumer. Exactly. You know, I don't really need the Ali Express, perverted panties or whatever. I know that you buy for $7 and they hit you with like a $14. Tariff or whatever. Yeah. I mean, there's some, like, well, I shop on eBay a lot.

Yeah. And I've gotten some refunds because Latvia or some other random countries. I'm trying to buy clogs from was like, sorry, we just, we don't, or what I don't know. Mm-hmm. I don't get into geopolitics too much. So, um, I actually forgot to look into the Marjorie Taylor. Me too. No, actually, I did very briefly.

And so apparently she, um, you know, she's like a day one ride or die Trump loyalist. Yeah. And now they're kind of trading insults and calling. each other traitor because she is mad at him for not releasing the Epstein files, among other things. Maybe she's also mad at him about the H-1B visa remarks and the Chinese students' remarks. She's got a principled stance because she has a political outsider who is representing her constituents ostensibly.

Yeah. And she's she's now partnering up with Roe Con. and Thomas Massey, a Democrat and a Republican, who, you know, Nick Fuentes was saying, would lead this left-right populist coalition to promote the cause of the Epstein survivors at a press conference, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. My impression of Marjorie Taylor Green not knowing much about her

is that she's like brave and well-meaning but kind of dumb. You think? Yeah. Why? I don't know. That's just like my insta read that may or may not be accurate. I mean, I guess I think she's a genuine pop populous. Yeah.

So maybe she's dumb in that way in the way the populism always kind of is because it represents, you know. Yeah. popular. Yeah. It's not, you know. I think it was Curtis Jarvin who said, who said what democracy really means is populism and y'all ain't ready for that conversation. I think what populism really means is democracy and y'all ain't ready for that conversation.

You don't want people who shouldn't be voting and should not be involved in politics making nationwide decisions. That seems like a bad idea. Well, they don't. No, I know. But that's what they're angling for. It's probably not going to happen. How so?

I'm speaking too soon. Well, you don't really want a populist coalition, right? Because that just means... Ideally. Yeah. And this is naive, obviously, because politicians are beholden to lots of... ...israeli donor...

...and national interests. But ideally they do... in a representative democracy. It's not a, we don't want and won't have like a totally, like a total democracy. We have people who elect people, ideally who represent them.

And then if enough people, then those people can, if there's enough shared interest among different constituencies, then that's how political power is advanced. in a perfect world. Yeah. And so Marjorie is like she's taking up like an America first

kind of stance in the interest of like I don't even know where she's from. Wisconsin, Montana. Or like if she's a Congresswoman? Marjorie Taylor Green. She's a

U.S. representative for Georgia's 14th congressional district since 2021. She's a congresswoman. We do this all the time. So the Senate there's senators and Congress people. Senate House Congress. And they're all in the House of Representatives. No. Yes. Yes.

House of Representatives has Congress and Senate. Wait, hold on. Then there's a Supreme Court. Then there's the executive branch. The show's going to get way better when we get the outpatches because we're going to be able to focus. The Congress

consists of the Senate and the House. That's what I thought because we look this up on a previous episode. We should be deported. We should be deported. Foc being canceled.

We should be deported. Martin and Solion are so right. We should be deported. Get us the fuck out of here. We have no business weighing in on American politics. I mean, I've been saying I won't go back.

We're so evil and retarded. We just, I can't retain stuff like that. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Which hinders me in my Machiavellian schemes to recruit power. I don't want to go back to Bellers, but now that I found out about the fake Birkin bag factory.

You might be sorry. If I can go, maybe I'll go back. Maybe I'll go back in my fake Birken. What the fuck is that? Oh, somebody's calling you? Oh. Oh, is it the Daily Mail? Oh, it's Tucker on the line.

Hey, Tucker. We just read your... Tucker, how many milligrams you got in right now? Okay. We're not going to say. We're not going to... That's so funny. You know, the daily mail has been cold calling me.

And I pick up because I'm such a... I'm like, maybe it's an agent calling to sign me. Maybe it's CAA and I pick up and it's like, this is someone from the Daily Mail and Wear and I just hang up right away. It's so spooked. Because you're not, I learned you're not even supposed to say no comment.

Why not? Because that it's just, then they can say that you, if you don't say anything, they can't say anything. Oh, so you just hang up. Yeah. Damn, real KGB hours.

You can't say shit. You can't even say nothing. I didn't do nothing. You just keep, Quiet. Damn, now I really am jealous because I wish the Daily Mail was calling me. No, you don't want to talk to these people, these vultures. I remember there was a period of time where, like, the New York Post was calling me regularly.

Not because they were interested in me, but because they wanted the scoop on weed slut Zoe. Oh. How'd they even get your number? I don't know. I know how my number is out there. How? Oh, you can't say. No, well, the Hindu nationalists when they docks me.

I'm going to be real with you. I think my retarded ass had my number in the signature at the bottom of Gmail for the longest time. Because I'm like a non-entity restaurant hostess. We used to be wishing people would be calling. Now I get a phone call, hang up. Yeah. And it's like some guy called like Jacob Silverman calling from the New York. post, would you like to comment on, no, a dog?

Well, I have this, when I was in the library at Players Club a while ago, and I was drawn to, drawn to a book about a French actress from the 19th century. It was called, like, tragic muse or something. And I, so I was like, you know, just dicking around and read it as her name was Rachel feel like she's beautiful. Well, there's no pictures of her. Maybe there's like one, but there's some paintings and stuff. She was like a very famous actress.

When she died tragically young, they wanted to take pictures of her dead body. And that was part of the reasons why France now has like privacy laws to Wikipedia asked it. but she was like some like strumpet stage actress who was like she looks kind of like you or like Mrs. Mum Donnie let me show you a pick real quick

The funny thing is that that was the beauty standard back in the day because it was considered exotic and sultry Well yeah she do be looking like She's gorgeous She sounds Jewish She was Jewish yep Yes she was Jewish yep

Yes she was was she was in fact Jewish she was a beautiful jewess um kind of bohemian BPDS an early red scare girl who was like beloved on the stage especially in comedies um but had she had like some illegitimate children with like napoleon's nephew and she was really like in the mix um and she said something that I thought was sweet where she said, what is an actress besides the stir she makes in the world? So true.

And in that way, I'm like, I'm more of an actress than ever. In some ways, I'm less of an actress than ever. But in other ways, I'm really just living in a long tradition of being a scandalous whore. Yeah, a dramatic it, girl. But I think that's a good segue actually, to Nuzzi. It's a bit of an actress herself.

She is. She's a crisis actress. She's Yeah, she's certainly making a stir in the world. Well, okay, I don't know about that because I was... No? Well, I was thinking about

like your scandal in reference to her scandal. And whereas I think that your scandal is real if unfortunate, I find that her scandal is somewhat fake and manufactured. Like, yes, she did ostensibly carry on emotional affairs and maybe physical affairs with these rich and powerful older men. But my suspicion is that she probably just, like, hired a publicist and is trying to make a career for herself at this.

point. And she's has the advantages of being gorgeous drop dead gorgeous. And highly intelligent. Highly intelligent and doesn't like Trump. Yeah. So

there are, of course, the New York Times going to write the glowing profile and you know. And the book, there's incentives to push the book. Well, yeah. American. What is it? American canto. What's a conto?

Do we know? A conto is a poetic term. It can refer to a section of a long poem, a musical term for a vocal melody, or a brand of digital asset management software. It's probably that last one. What an interesting book. Right.

And, you know, it sounds so high-minded. and glamorous. She's basically back in the news because about a year ago she had a scandal where she was allegedly linked to RFK Jr. Through a long-winded and torrid emotional affair. Who she was covering as a reporter.

Right. And she was let go from New York magazine? Yes. I think Mel Gibson should make a gone girl style movie about Olivia Nuzzi and cast you in your comeback role. Okay. Now we're talking. Great idea. Think about it.

She has, so she has like two glossy news stories. One is a profile in the New York Times and one is an excerpt from her new book in Vanity Fair. Both of them feature sexy glamour shots of her. She like looks like a cross between Monica Viti and Carolyn Beset Kennedy. she's very clearly leaning into the Kennedy brand, much like who's the girl from Real Housewives of New York who was married to Kennedy and kept the name? Or she was married to a rat as well.

Carol, Carol. Okay. The New York Times calls her a modern day version of a Hitchcock blonde. Ooh. So true. And like they're not exactly on her side, but it's in their best interest to, like, contribute to herself mythologizing. I think they are, you know, maybe they're not.

They're doing their best to seem like detached and critical. I mean, the guy who wrote the profile in the Times, I saw somewhere talking about how he was so enchanted with her. Yeah, I've met her. I've gotten drinks with her. Oh, yeah. Yeah, like randomly years ago with, Thomas Chatterton Williams

at I think the hotel was called the Lowell or the Lowry and I'd love to have her on when the book comes out of this thing open invitation if she's not too upset by our nagging yeah we're just having fun I bet she's I bet she's a good sport yeah a slut bag

as one of her adversaries turned friends called her she's yeah and my impression of her was that yeah she was she's very beautiful and very intelligent, but you do not get the sense at all that she's like a femme fatale with delusions of grandeur. She seems like a relatively normal and well-adjusted, smart, independent young woman. She seems, yeah, like, I think she did the right. We were in the girls chat discussing whether

or not she was BPD. Yeah, I mean, it's very fun to psychoanalyze her because people are like, Is she NPD? Is she BPD? Is she high tea? Is she a sociopath? Is she like simply a Capricorn female, whatever? But I don't think she is BPD. No, no.

You made a really good point. She implied that her parents were alcoholics and alludes to her mom being BPD. Mm-hmm. What seems to refute the idea that she's BPD, as you pointed out, is that when the scandal originally broke, she didn't crash out and sort of laid low. And she like wisely bided her time and wrote this like sexy memoir with a literary pretense to it. Yeah.

And she, because that is like people throw like us, throw BPD around a lot. Yeah. And it refers obviously to a spectrum of mostly female behavior. They're increasingly male behavior as well. But real BPD, I think, is so, like, scary is because it has this, like, total death drive self-sabotaging mechanism in it where they, like, can't maintain. Yeah, that's pathetic and retarded. Like, her love life's messy, but she's maintaining professional relationships. She's high functioning.

She's not like, like, a real BPD person is, like, burning every bridge because they can't help. It's really sad. Yes. As Monica and Fisher King pointed out independently, she never metooed anyone, which is, you know, relatively honorable. Yeah. As far as. In this day, in this day. You're an adulterer.

But if you don't meet you someone, you're like better than most people. Yeah. And like the whole scandal, I think, is, is attractive and appealing because it feels very old school. It feels like something out of the 60s or the 80s. And the Kennedy. She gives it a nice, of course. And, you know, I said to you guys, she's like the Faye Donaway character and network. She's like a high class, high powered high tea woman who's mostly, you know, stayed out of the limelight, but is pretty well respected in her industry.

She's not like an e-girl or an influencer, a streamer, a substacker, or any of these disreputable professions, not a podcaster. the whole thing is very Didion-esque, you know, except never in a million years, could you imagine, like, Joan Didion disclosing the details of her private sex life? You had a really good point that you made that I'm just going to quote where you said it's like, you know, the classic writer chick trope. I mean, she's leaning into. Great. That's how I knew you were back because you were coming up with the good puns. But in her case, it's especially funny because her personality is clearly not discreet and meticulous, which is what people obviously like and respect Didion for. Oh, she's been so mythologized.

People basically think she was like, Nausee's leaning into it so hard. It's egregious. Yeah. With the sunglasses convertible, the serpent coiled in the grass. Yeah. The Santana wins. Like that's, I mean, I guess a lot of people don't read. even a very short book

like Didion's written but like she's got she if she was alive she could copyright the right about the Santa Ana's like that's her thing that is her thing yeah and Nazi's book or at least the excerpt published by Vanity Fair is set against the backdrop

of the LA wildfires which are like her Santa Ana wins and she she in fact directly references the Santa Ana wins at some point and it's like you know like oh like burning everything down, like, revealing the barren truth. People love, I mean, maybe it's, you know, the L.A. influence, too. And Didian does have a very, like, infectious.

And the New York Times provost said she had a copy of the Bible and the Canterbury Tales or something, and that that's what she was reading while she was, like, writing the memoir on her phone. Probably smoking weed, honestly. But, like, carefully angling those books on her nightstands so that reporters. But she was clearly reading, Did. And one of the things, one of the reasons why Didyne is so popular and I think like enduring and style and like people ape her shit so much is because she has such an infectious way of writing and is that you do read a, you know, I did a novel and then you're like the I, you know, what was I thinking? I don't know. You know, you start doing the pithy like. I mean like back when I was very romantic, it's very cool more lucid and intelligent. before I got like mom brain and succumb to wet brain, I made this point that Didian is like a watershed figure.

It's like the Ivan Illich argument about how like the iatrogenic thing where like certain medical and technological advances have great benefits. But at some point they suffer from diminishing returns and start to make society and culture worse. And Didion suffers from this problem because she was like the first of her kind. And I think she's really misunderstood in the sense that like all the literary e-girls who love her, she would really hate them because she's kind of like an autistic, maladjusted male-brained person. But he has like the Eve Babbitts. Yeah. Ethos.

But with like the Didian aesthetic. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like, it's like, um, Babette's content with Didion filter placed on top of it. It's very, to make her seem more like rigorous and, uh, it's very smart. Yeah. The book looks great. It looks like a drone did you put on your coffee table and. Yeah, it's, it's very, these are not the markings of a BPD person.

No. BPD person goes on sub stack. Yeah, has a crash out, names, names, ruins everybody's lives, ruins their own life. Like Ryan Lizza, who's probably more BPD than she is. Yeah, well, we can get to him, but she's kind of going for Joan Didion, but ends up it sounds more like Chris Krauss and I Love Dick in that her relationship with RFK, though it was quote consuming was never consummated.

Yeah. So basically she decamped from the East Coast to the West Coast. to like hide out and lick her wounds. She took a year to write this book in secret. This is what the New York Times reports. The title I thought was a, was a tad pretentious given that the book is basically smut. And again, it's like nestled in this whole thing

about the LA wildfires and the upheaval in American life and politics. That also like corresponds to like a pretty on the nose, like burn it all down metaphor. like after COVID and Floyd and so on and so forth. But at the end of the day, it like reads like feminist confessional. Like it's a chronicle of her affairs. It's like substack journalism.

It is. Yeah. Yeah, the prose is probably like a cut above your typical like dime square like alt-lit girl. I don't think people, it's easy to rag on it because she's being kind of, I don't know if it's not sincere isn't the word but it is like she's making it she's attempting

a style yeah and that's like a little like creative and elevated and people it's easy to rag on that and be like you know what like people love posting a little excerpt of something yeah but when you read a book it's like immersive and you're kind of you know you it's a it's too stylized like it reads like Dr. Seuss for adults because she relies very heavily on this one particular device, which is using very brief sentences, but a lot of repetition of the same term over and over again, both literally and metaphorically. And she like will repeat and remix it. And the repetition is great because it adds a lot of filler to the book. It's like good padding. And you know, given the gravity of her sentences.

She uses, like, a lot of words to reveal very little. Yeah. Probably because there isn't that much to reveal, ultimately. Here's, like, a notable passage. I would take a bullet for you, the politician. Capitalized that. He always said that. Please don't say that.

I said, I always said that. From his mouth, the bullet theoretical launched the bullet possible. I did not like to think about it about the armed man at the speech or the armed man who broke into his home or the armed man. or the armed men he paid to guard him from the armed men who sought to harm him while the federal government denied his pleas for protection from the security

agency whose modern protocols were carved from the same bullets that cut bows from his family tree and cut the track of the American experiment. It's like, oh, the armed men, the arms dealers, disarmament, his arms the way his arms held me down in bed, the way my arms

moved up and down when I was stroking his cock. It's like literally the worm in his brain, the worms he took to combat the worms in his brain. An interesting tidbit about it is that the book was set to be released at the same time as Cheryl Hines' tell all memoir was coming out. I really feel for Cheryl Hines, the poor thing. She's been through so much.

She's been ostracized from Hollywood. Has she? Yeah. Because she's stood by her man. Because she's Maha. That's why she went on Tucker and talked about. Yeah, she was shunned. Yeah.

you know by like people she called her friends because people don't like RFK even though he's a Democrat um yeah I think she's so likable well people people call her like a dits and a bimbo yeah it's similar to you in a way but she's yeah but she's actually well first of all she's very beautiful in person and secondly she's very smart and with it and knows exactly what's going on. She's not at all some dumb blonde. She's just not. No, no, no. But like Olivia Nuzi in that

passage, I think she thinks that this makes their affair look like glamorous and dangerous, but it actually just makes them sound like blowhards. And he's like, I'll take a bullet for you. It's like, well, you can't even leave your wife for me because you know what's up. And maybe you don't like your wife that much

or you've grown tired of her, but like you know that she's like rational, dependable. You would never leave her for the type of hoe that you're having a text to fare with, the bullet theoretical that launched the bullet possible? Like what is like theoretical and possible or not distinct enough to place in a sentence? Theoretical impossible are basically synonyms. Not quite, but. Yeah. And there is, I just happen to have read play it as it lays a bunch of times. It's one of my favorite books. books.

Because, well, it's great, but it's quite short too. Like, there's the, you know, Didion is great to the short chapter, you know. But there's a lot of like similar, like, the refrain of like, I don't think about it. Or like, it's, yeah, it's very like interior. And it is literally like the same, like, reading the Nuzzi excerpt was crazy because I was like, this is. There's so many parts of it that just. correspond directly to play it as it lays. I'm going to read it because now that I have,

I'm armed with my Alp pouches. I might have more of an attention span to get through a whole ass book. It's a real, it's a novella really. It's really a quick one. And it's cool. That was made into a rather bad movie apparently. No, I've never even tried to kind of watch the movie because I don't,

the boy doesn't really need. That whole passage reminded me of the time that Moldovan was like, I'll take a bull to girls. And I was like, no, you wouldn't. that was sweet of him I think he said like maybe on the arm or something he's the Chris Burden of our podcast well there's not to get old

to uh not to overburden listeners with too many literary references but in the brothers Karamazov there's a great part um I think it's in one of like the monastery chapters

where probably like maybe father's awesome else maybe someone says that it's easy to die for something uh-huh it's easy to say that you would die for something and it's easy also just to like you know give up your life for something but it's harder to live for something yeah and like endure yeah and put in the work of like living every day yeah in service of something bigger than yourself well yeah like dying is the easy part it's the living that's hard. So like taking a bullet for me isn't a sweet thing to say.

But I'd rather he, you know, it would be more romantic if he said like I would show up, leave my wife and show up for you every day. After promising you that we were going to have a baby together and I guess her conceit is that him making this utterance unlocked a carmic chain of events that led to, her having to take a metaphorical bullet for him as an object of scrutiny and a woman scorned

which is how it plays out in her No, I think she was talking about her affair with RFK Jr. and how it snowballed into a national scandal. Let me... They make it so hard. I pay for Vanity Fair they make it impossible

to even log in you know it's like I got to go in my email memorize six numbers I don't have the outpatches yet so I can't retain the information but do you have it pulled up?

No no Okay let me find it sorry did you find it because I think it's even well now I have to sign in blah blah which passage are you looking for

where she says the part about the bullet. Oh, yeah. Well, I just read it. But doesn't she say that the bullet in Butler? Well, she goes into that and then she, there's another paragraph where she talks about how she basically asked for it by placing a loaded gun on her nightstand. This is all metaphoric.

And then she launches into another paragraph where she talks about- I thought the gun was real. But she talks about how, like, gun violence is the number one cause of death in America and gives like a statistical breakdown of all the. murder, suicides, accidents. Right, right, right. It began when I loaded a gun and set it on my nightstand. I loaded a gun.

In Volcanoes National Park, no cell reception, except just over there at the top of the slope of a rock for a few seconds, long enough for the veil of Paradise viz by the bullet literal that had flown in Butler right at the president's head. The politician left the Midwest for the East Coast. Yeah, so this is like all a device to enact her personal experience. experience with national events. Right. I didn't even pick up on her taking the bullet.

Natural events. Yeah. I didn't even pick up on that. I thought it was all a kind of like a veiled way of getting to the Butler, Pennsylvania assassination attempt. No. Maybe I'm not smart enough. No,

I feel like the Butler Pennsylvania assassination attempt is a means of, it's a device. It's a device for her to talk about her personal life. This kind of thing. On the coast, the street lights and the traffic lights and the big windows of the big houses turn to black. It's like faux plainness and simplicity. Clearly a lot of thought went into this prose. A politician's greatest trick is to convince you that he is not one. And what is a politician? Any man who wants to be loved more than other men and through his pursuit reveals why he cannot love himself. Like all men, but more so he was a hunter. In a literal sense, he used not a bullet but a bird. It was not about a chase.

The falcon. The falcon. The skill that amounted to a test of his self-mastery. He was the mouse and the architect of his maze. The giver of his own pleasure and torment, he desired, and he desired desiring. He desired being desired. He desired desire itself. I understood this just as I came to understand the rage of his kinks and complexes and how they fit within what I thought I understood of his soul.

He's like pinhead from hell razor. He likes pleasure and pain. And then she, yeah, it's like, okay. Yeah. Like the, it's, ooh. And like, yeah, as tempting as it is to, like, psychoanalyze her, it's like, yeah, you know, my read on her is that she probably has a sense of herself, yeah, as, like, special and sexually powerful, which is not an accurate TBH.

While you do you listen to her song? No, I know that she tried to launch a pop career as a 17-year-old with a song called jailbait. Yeah. It's good. She gets off, obviously, on the fantasy of having power over rich and powerful older men. And I was thinking about what makes somebody special and sexually powerful. And yeah, there's some innate initial combination of looks and charisma, right? Obviously, you have to have that to begin with, which she has.

But really what it comes down to at the end of the day is having enough data to affirm your suspicions about yourself and, you know, adjusting your behavior. Right. She's not delusional. Yeah. Like she's drawn to a certain set of people and behaviors that play into her self-image. And she's been pretty successful in convincing others about how she'd like to be seen. Robert Green, artist seduction, baby.

You people, they got a voice. inside them, you convince them, you can fill it, you're in. Yep. You know, the big question I think people are asking is like, oh, is she motivated mainly by like professional gain or sexual conquest? And it's hard to say. But, you know, as I said to you girls, like having affairs with rich and powerful older men can be flattering, but it's not necessarily primarily sexually flattering. because like to give the classic example like if you've ever had like the idea of seducing your college professor sure you realize that the reality is much more mundane and depressing because when you walk into his like office or study you're immediately hit with the old man smell and you're like wait a minute and when women say they want an older man they're talking at a man who's like five to 15 years older not 30 or to 40 years older.

Mm-hmm. So. I mean, I have, there's a, I have like a kind of a class reduction. We just,

I'm going to throw a little class. Uh-huh. Analysis. Analysis on it real quick. Because I relate to Nuzzi in a way because I'm also super beautiful

Hitchcockian some have said no because yeah her yeah her mom was like a a catalog model her dad was a sanitation worker

or so you know I don't know but I believe that you know I don't think she comes from means and for a lot of women who are serial monogamous or you know

intrigue at it adulters, kind of like, with, they have that disposition in part as like a means of like surviving. Like Keith, what's his name? Olberman. Yeah. Like she got her bag.

Yes. And like there is something about an older, judge her or hold her in contempt. No, not at all. The type of woman who gets her bag. I'm saying, ain't nothing wrong with that. There's less of a moral judgment involved

from like other people who are like, oh, you're like, a slut and a whore and more about what, not even what it says about you, but how it, um, affects your life. I'm not making a moral judgment at all.

I'm saying like there is like a pragmatism to that kind of female strategy. Yeah, but I think part, I don't think it's just about survival. Yeah. In addition to giving you like kind of, uh, validation.

Uh-huh. Can also give you like real material. means, resources, resources, opportunities. They, like,

there are just, like, very clear-cut materialistic advantages to becoming entangled with men who are older

and powerful. But, like, I think part of the fantasy is the pragmatic aspect. Like, feeling yourself to be a capable and competent seductress.

Like, that's what you get off on. It's not the sex. Well. Because ain't nobody really having sex with older men. Some people do, but

come on. If you were like, really like whatever, like a horny, high tea vitalist female, you, no, I don't think she's a nymph.

I don't think she's a sex craze, nympho who like can't get enough of like a geriatric dick. But I think for a lot of people, it's not about the most people. Maybe all people, if you really want to get, it's not about the sex.

Yeah. It's like that Gijekian and Lacanian thing about how everyone's just kind of like a fantasy projection for someone. Yeah. And no one's really like having sex with anybody. Andy Warhol romance is finding the fantasy and people who don't have it. Wow. Good. Jailvay by Livy. She should have stuck to music.

Song of the winter. white girl winter. It's a white girl winter. White girl crash out winter. No, I by all accounts, I actually am not super familiar with Olivia Nessie's journalism, but by all accounts, she was a competent and respected reporter

who broke a lot of stories, got a lot of scoops, and, you know, she wrote a profile of Joe Biden's increasing frailty and senility. So she wasn't like a total like lib-tard pawn

suffering from like Trump derangement syndrome and I don't even think that she's like so invested in a towing the line of Trump is like bad orange Cheeto man she's called him like a monster that was just the frame kind of in New York Times yeah it's in it's not just a salacious memoir about her sexing RFK Jr it's all in a whole it's a whole indictment of mag the maga ascendant or whatever. Yeah, I don't think she really cares about Trump. She's, um, she wrote the unflattering, uh, article about Biden because she didn't want to fuck him. And she turned on Trump because she couldn't successfully seduce him. Well, she had a good line in that, uh, in the profile where she said he was so unwell that a sex scandal would have been good for him.

Yeah, that was good. I love that. Um, it would have made him seem a little more cogent. Yes. Um, Oh, here's another passage. What I felt was that the country had snaked its hand up my skirt. What I felt was that I had been lanced by the teeth of a trap set by a man who could not let me go, that as I tried to free myself the man for whom I worked had run off with the key to the padlock, that the contradiction in terms the man I trusted the most, the politician had walked by the scene whistling. And when he saw me there, a mob on the horizon moving closer,

he reached out to me not to lift me by my feet, but to pin me down. Ooh, sexy. to drive the teeth of the trap deeper into my flesh, to hike my skirt higher, to wave the mob over, to look, to invite the country to lay its hands on me. There's that one screen cap that's been circulating about... Stop sexualizing my tech web pussy.

Stop lifting my skirt so high. Mr. President. Mr. Nephew of the President. What was that going to be? Sorry. No, it's fine. It wasn't that important. Something about her hot, wet, pussy, whatever.

I mean, it's clear with, like, older tweets of hers resurfacing that she's used her sexual wiles to get ahead, which she should. Fair game. Yeah. Sure. But interestingly, I thought that she was at her best when she wasn't writing about her own personal life. Like, she had this part about the Gemini Nation under a Gemini ruler. Yeah. Which sounds really good.

And then she had another point about how deny or untruth are two of the biggest meme words today. And they both deal with the inability to vet truth claims, which is very observant and true. For sure. So she's not like a dud or a failure as a reporter and observer. This part was much more interesting than the parts about her love life. It was very, um, Mark Fisher or Nick Land, vast interconnectedness and mass overstimulation have given way to individual isolation and nihilistic boredom so total that it all but invited the ascendant mob mentality politics of comic relief and sadistic catharsis.

So true, queen. She's, she's a good writer. I'm not, I, I, I mean, I'm being extremely charitable because I know if I like shot some Didion in my veins and sat down and wrote a book you know and was like isolated

Yeah I'd probably come out with some shit people would say it was like cringe and It was probably pretty easy to write that book it probably flows right out of her She said she wrote it on her phone yeah very cool But she definitely did give like the prose, the style, some thought. The thing with the sexual intrigue is that in reality, you know that all of the stuff is less like sleeping with the enemy and more the kids in the hall, the affair sketch, where they're like slapping their flesh and like gripping their tummies in the mirror.

That's how it goes with everyone, no matter how like sexy or rich or powerful. Maybe she has an intrigue at it. probably yeah she probably can't help the will we or won't we kind of routine yeah i think she's like attracted to herself to to the image of herself as a femme fatal because it makes her feel powerful and in control yeah which is actually like in the grand scheme of things pretty understandable and forgivable yeah relatable Yeah, and you can't really be mad at that. I guess, like, what was there?

Yeah. The one thing that I was curious about is whether this book will have commercial success. Because, you know. I'm thinking, yeah. Well, on the one hand, people love reading smut, but on the other hand, you could read smut for free. but also like industry people love to read smut but feel high-minded about it which is why there's always like a new story every other week in the New York Times or the New Yorker about like someone getting divorced and being in an open relationship and polyamory whatever yeah um that I think that

will lend to the success of the book and then also she's definitely going to sell the right like it's she's probably already sold the rights yeah and I I could see this becoming a movie, like, for real. 100%. Yeah, like, why not? I'm positive. My thing with, like, having sex with RFK Jr. is, like, he has that croaky voice from eating too much pussy,

and, you know, it doesn't sound that great when he comes. He's like, ah, ah. Well. Which she didn't have sex with him. She didn't have sex with them. And as you pointed out, it's not really about the sex. It's about the Kennedy. Mm-hmm.

You know. If she had had sex with him, I think the erotic element would be that you're having sex with a a Kennedy. I really have a love-hate relationship with the Irish. Because on the one hand, I think that they're like both funnier and more authentic than the Jews, which no one will admit, but it's kind of true. But on the other hand, they are like a nation of covert narcissists. they're like perennially like aggrieved and mediocre

which is what leads them to like the national disease of alcoholism they're all alcoholics who suffer like seemingly supernatural tragic twists of fate just because they were like drunk and they like fell into a ditch or like crashed into someone that's very Russian kind of I know I know I know I love the Irish because they like remind me of the Russians I was talking to a friend of mine who is his family is like from Ireland and he was telling me yeah about how his dad and his uncle have some like longstanding feud about some inheritance and they like but his brother like bought a property

very close to his dad's house in Ireland and they like and I'm like that's like peasant like they're still on that like that's crazy well and there's a big distinction between like Irish Americans and Irish Irish and that like actual Irish people I've had the pleasure of knowing a few of them throughout my life are somewhat

strict and Catholic and humorless on the surface but actually have like a very dark tricksterish sense of humor I don't know many properly Irish people actually but I have a good impression of them and Irish Americans as well yeah I mean they're just kind of

ubiquitous. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're so ubiquitous. It's almost not worth pointing out. And I even forget that the Kennedys are kind of Irish, honestly. Yeah. I know, or Irish American, but, you know, Jack Schlossberg.

Yeah. Has the misfortune of being both an Irish and a Jew? Loving it. The worst type of mishling. Reptick Gersh, but whatever. Yeah. yeah whatever happy for it oh well okay i want to surque i want to sir i want because i have a diddian quote okay that is from like an interview she gave to the paris review that i've has stuck with me just

it's very apropos of our poll discussion but she says i wrote stories from the time i was a little girl but I didn't want to be a writer. I wanted to be an actress. I didn't realize then that it's the same impulse. It's make believe it's performance. The only difference being that a writer can do it all alone. I was struck a few years ago when a friend of ours, an actress was having dinner here with us and a couple of other writers. It suddenly occurred to me that she was the only person in the room who couldn't plan what she was going to do. She had to wait for someone to ask her, which is a strange way to live. So true, queen. But I thought of it. I thought of it. Ozzy very much feels like a

wood like a thwarted actress yeah yeah well she wanted to be a pop star right yeah you know by some fluke like some arbitrary twist of fate she chose music rather than Hollywood but but same but the impulse and that like

writing I always thought it was interesting that Didian kind of even revealed this yeah because it is I don't think that's true of male writers that they like would be actors. But I do think a lot of female writers,

a nice good example, is someone who like uses her writing in the way that an actress would use her craft. Her craft, yeah. Well, she wants to like kind of inflict herself on the world. Yeah. Which sounds like damning and critical,

but I don't mean it in such a way. way. It's just like you, you yourself, like I think every woman at the end of the day has a pretty good and accurate grasp of where she stands in the hierarchy and like knows how to wield her sexual power. I don't know if that's true. We were just talking about hoflation on the last that. A lot of women have no idea. Yeah, that's true. And actually are kind of like frigid and weird. Yeah. Way more modern women. Yeah. Because they're like, divorced from their instincts. But like archetypal women.

Yeah. Woman. Woman. The N-word of the world. Yeah. Yeah. I understand what you're saying. But I think most

contemporary women are not like Olivia Nassie. Yeah. What I'm saying about Olivia Nassi is like a positive thing. Like I think her view of herself is like... JLB. Yeah. Beautiful and intelligent and special is not exactly unfounded.

She has a reason to believe that about herself. Yeah. She's not delusional there. And a lot of people who aren't as successful as Olivia Nuzzi or other, like, kind of glamorous women, I think people rest on this kind of people who think, a lot of people think they're special and they think someone's going to see. them. Yeah. That's like part of the actress fantasy and why like the female writer kind of takes control of her own destiny and yeah, but is acting on the same impulse.

But an actress does wait, like as Didion says, like some, they're waiting for someone to see them. Yeah. And to tell them they're special into kind of like the fantasy is that then they'll be catapulted into kind of like a glamorous life. But the truth is that doesn't even happen to actresses. they have to take the initiative to advocate for themselves and inflict themselves in the world. And they, well, they just like, in a pragmatic sense, they have to do embarrassing and undignified things like self-tape and write emails and things that no woman really wants to do at the end of the day.

Women in general want to make it seem like their beauty and power is effortless when it's really not. You do put some effort into it, but it's very like intangible and private. Not anymore because everybody does like get ready with. Yeah. Yeah, which is horrible. But they always, I mean, there's some girls who kind of don't look good before or after. Yeah. But the ones who are popular look pretty good before they.

Yeah. You know, they seem like they've already done a lot of getting ready to do the get ready with the tutorial. Yeah, yeah. Which, no shade, you know, whatever. I'm enjoying it. Well, I enjoy Olivia Nuzzi because she's done this in a fairly discreet way. You know, what I find, like, annoying about her at the end of the day.

My one criticism is that, you know, she's sort of playing dumb and pretending that she never wanted any of this. And like I said, I'll grant that the actual experience of being like a main character in this sex scandal was actually like uncanny and unwelcome to use her own

words. But she got what she wanted at the end of the day. Yes. And it's like, this is like the whole plot of Hanaki, the piano teacher, right? Where this woman wants to engage in this like dark and kinky

relationship with this much younger man and then he ends up beating her up and raping her and she's like left like horrified and bleeding on the floor of her like mother's dressing room or whatever because she got what she wanted but didn't really

bargain for it. Death drive baby you always want it. Yeah and there's like this point in the excerpt where she rhetorically acknowledges that she asked for it. she even says this herself but it is almost like a sympathy plea for readers to detect that she didn't actually want any of this which is false

yeah it's a kind of like poetic ambivalence it reminds me of the I think it's in the ride by Lana Del Rey music video monologue where she says you know she said I was a singer not a very popular one And then she says like, and it's the ride is about, or the narrative in the video, at least in sort of the song is about how she's hanging out, these bikers. You know, she's chosen to be kind of like a runaway who lives amongst like the drifters and stuff. And she says in that monologue, like I'd be lying if I said this wasn't what I wanted. Yeah, it's like Anne Hathaway in Havoc, a film I recently watched. I'm so happy you watched Havoc. I knew you would, I was like, Anna's going to love this movie. Yeah. Isn't it awesome?

And she's like a girl who's like too pretty and too smart for her own good. Who brings all this like horrible stuff upon herself. I know. Bijou Phillips, fantastic. I know. I know. My love. Well, and this brings me back to like the thing that I said on the podcast maybe in like 2018 or 2019,

which is that people conflate asking for it with. deserving it in the case of like this was like the me too era so we were talking at like rape and sexual assault um women are always asking for it does it mean that they deserve it but they really are sometimes they're not well i think you actually weren't asking for it um no i probably was i knew what i well yeah but like not in the way that it happened that was unfair and unfortunate let's be real for sure, but I'd be lying if I said, you know, I, it's not like I didn't know that I was like getting away with something. Well, yeah, it's not like you didn't know that you were being like, uh, controversial and

provocative. Sure. That's what we do on this podcast. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We get paid to do it. Yeah. People like it and they hate, they love to hate it. I guess. Maybe part of me did think I'd just get away with it. For indefinitely. So, yeah, it's not that I was asking. In my case, I wasn't asking for it, but I did deserve it. But I mean in the case of being raped. Yeah, of course.

Sometimes you're just jogging or Dr. Melphy in a stairwell. Exactly. Sometimes you're just a backpacker in Sri Lanka. I'm introducing this as a tourist and safari and some. boop exposes himself to you and it becomes like a viral thing. No, I'm not talking about like actual sex crime, but like... Anytime one makes a stir in the world, you know, sometimes the ripples are out of your control. But this is like what I mean when I quote Nick Land and say that like narcissism is not a moral

category but epistemological one because people are like really envious of those who they deem to be grandiose narcissists, those who have the will and the vision and the confidence to inflict themselves upon the world. I really value and admire those type of people because they have more courage than most and they are constantly being like cocked and browbeat by covert narcissists who wish they had that power. but feel like curbed by, um, social pressure and have to pretend that they're, that they're more principled and moral than others. They're just cowards.

Yeah. When they're just cowards at the end of the day, yeah. Um, damn, I've got a lot of quotes just, did I pop a out pouch earlier or something? Because my mind's working so good. Um. Spinoza says blessed are the weak Who fuck I'm gonna butcher it now But it's something about like who think they're good because they have no claws right

Like it's easy to be to feel good about yourself when you are ineffective And don't do anything so yeah it's easy to take the Yeah it's easy to be like could it be me I wouldn't there's nothing I would I would never put that a Nazi yeah I wouldn't do that I wouldn't sack star of K junior

it's like maybe you fucking would maybe if a different thing maybe if your life shook out differently and you had better character you'd be willing to take a chance in this life I'm gonna write

an obscure memoir about the agent it's not erotic at all it's just about my first petty betrayals at my mid-tier agency. I say the agent calls me. I don't know.

He said, you fucking bitch. What have you done? He says your actions have consequences. I say I know. I say I loaded the gun. I know because I loaded the gun. Cease your inquiries for they are fruitless. I don't know.

Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. we can wrap it up I just I will say I think there is a little bit of nominal determinism strikes again with the show being called Red Scare which McCarthyism

cancel kind of the original cancel culture now I'm a victim but it's way worse than McCarthyism which I don't right when people love to say that McCarthy was actually good because they hate communists and like I'm not a fan of a communist myself but I don't actually think McCarthyism was good and even though I'm a big fan of Elliot Kazan I do think he's a rat and did a very just reputable thing yeah yeah yeah I think it was good for me personally because I'm a big fan of

um Joseph Lossi who was a known communist driven from Hollywood and exiled to London where he met Harold Pinter and made the best trilogy of films ever made. Things work out. Yeah. Yeah. But as a mechanism, I mean, I feel like I've fallen victim to a similar kind of. Yeah. I thought you were going to say something about Olivia Nazi's name being nominally deterministic.

I was talking about myself again. Yeah. But this is, I don't even have a proper trial. Uh-huh. I just got one weird guy. It's so much more undignified. They're not going to, this isn't going to get a nice word for what it was called, you know?

Yeah. And when they told me not to talk about it, which was good counsel. And I think mostly I basically won't. Yeah. But I was like I, and then if you don't, I was told, if you don't talk about it, it'll go away.

but I was like, but it doesn't, even if it goes away, which it will, it doesn't really go away. And then it gets like kind of like memory hold and convoluted. Yeah. And then the narrative, if I don't say nothing, then the narrative is just like, you know, even a month from now, someone will say,

oh, Dasha is not the girl who got dropped from her agency for being a Nazi? Yeah, for platforming Nick Wendez. Like the Nick Fuentes will even like be irrelevant. Who has like a much bigger platform than we do, but okay, whatever. But that's what I mean is that will even become. like irrelevant. It'll just be like, oh, she did, she isn't she bad?

Didn't she do something bad? And that's why she was, she was shunned or punished or whatever. Like, no one. Girl, that's why I'm perennially so mad about people being like, oh, she didn't get the COVID vaccine because she wanted to own the lives. And I'm forever trying to set the story straight, but it's like futile and fruitless because it doesn't matter.

the end it's irrelevant. I know. It's just the snail trail that you leave. No, it takes such a like massive initiative that I don't have the wherewithal to undertake to like shift the narrative in my favor. So I just have to like play it as it lays, you know? And like hope things kind of shake out in a just enough way. And if that fails, I'll just pop it out.

Ouch. And relax. Start an only fan. Should we? We can wrap it up. We didn't talk about Lizzie's. Oh. Last time we talked about Nuzi, I was related to also to this guy.

Yeah. And we remarked on the similarity of their names. Yes. Nazi and Liza. Her ex-fiance. Yeah. Ryan Liza. Also wrote a kind of.

of stylish, riveting substack. Post, yeah. He's like a substack girl. Called how I found out. And then he had the smoking gun at the end where you think it's leading up to... That was really good. It was really good. Or like thinking he's going to talk about RFK Jr.,

but it's some like dude called Mark Sanford, who's nobody's ever heard of. He's another guy she was writing a profile event. Yeah. And... Awesome. He was, you know, he, he, he did the thing that you just did where he was like, I was told by my counsel that silence was advisable, but after a while I began to realize that I had to tell my story. Now that I can capitalize by paywalling part two of my sordid tail. I think this is going to be like a five-parter.

ankle biter bro um what did he um there was the passage where he talked about cutting down the bamboo shoots in their backyard which is a metaphor for um the thorny descent

descent their relationship uh huh yeah he broke his silence told his side of the story um his prose is also vaguely Didian-esque

um they were supposed to write a book together about the 2020 election but then she bypassed him and wrote a book of her own he doesn't really come out looking that good but neither does she he's also was a man who was like 30 years or senior or something maybe less

maybe less maybe 15 or 20 years but he also was acting way too messy for that kind of age gap dynamic and he was under the impression that they shared like a special bond because it was like based on him like white knighting her and putting out her fires and getting her out of jams with other older men.

The most revolt, the part that gave me the egg. The shoes was. But when he talks about cleaning up and yet another one of her messes. Yeah. I'm like you fucking caggot. Like what are you doing? Well there's that part. She made a mess.

Shut up. What kind of manner are you complaining? about cleaning up your fiance's mess. And why are you willing to do this in the first place? There's a moment where he talks about like organizing her shoe closet and her almost crying at the generosity of the deed. That's like the moment where she got the ick clearly and decided to not only leave him, but publicly and brazenly cheat on him all over town with other richer and more powerful

men. Babe, I got you this shoe rack. Yeah. And put all your boots on it. No, he like meticulously organized her shoes, which like as a man, you should know that it's very nice to buy a woman a gift or build something for her. But you should never be organizing her shit. Babe, I'm organizing all your dice and attachments so that they don't gather dust or get hair stuck in them. That's cool.

I'm leaving you, babe. I got a work trip coming up. I'm having sex with Michael Tracy But I don't know If you paywall's part two I'm gonna be piss Yeah But I might

I might tune in I don't know I'll probably lose interest But I'll definitely I'll read American Canto Yeah I'm intrigued If she's not too mad at us

She's open invite I love to have run I I think she's if she's smart she'll get on the winning team taking a stand against cancel culture and courageous enough to stand up against the woke mob

America's lip pillow Olivia Nosey is there when you need her okay we'll see you in hell we'll see you in hell