Red Scare - Steinem and Punishment

Episode Date: September 8, 2026

The ladies discuss the Lindsay Clancy mistrial, Gloria Steinem's passing and the Met pulling the Galliano show.

We're back. It's good to breathe, you know, to reset your nervous system. Uh-huh. I think I just got my period. Really? Mm-hmm. Do you just check? Yeah.

Fuck. It's okay. It's a light flow. Well, I have products if you want them. I think I'll just... Kind of too late for all that. You can free bleed during it. It's not a disaster.

Yeah. It's, um... Well, you're wearing those Brandy Melville. real tree camo pants which costs like $20 so if you bleed all over the place you can just throw them in the garbage

These are perfect sweatpants for free bleeding it as a feminist looking like a Ukrainian soldier got wounded by a drone is laying in a ditch dying feeling like one too

I mean I'm so bloated because I'm drinking a lot too but like my last few, sorry, feminist talk show. My last few periods have been pretty, like, good. Yeah. And then I think, because I'm just, like, so dehydrated and drunk, like. Yeah. No, I feel like shit. My boobs hurt so bad. Yeah, it sucks. What have you been doing? What do you mean? Like, have you been

going out or drinking alone? Or? I just went out with Kyle Brown last night. Oh, cute. We got drunk in a random bar. That's nice. Um, yeah, I, like, will create, like, a drink. And, like, will create, like, a drink. opportunity if I have to but sometimes just up in the home yeah that's nice too honestly it's nice I have to go get a bottle of vodka just chill in your house yeah well you know Otto Kernberg says that if you have poor impulse control that's not tied to anyone specific event or stimuli that means you're not a narcissist I mean you're not borderline no I'm serious it's really interesting no I know I know so many borderline people with well yeah obviously but it's like it's like a necessary but not sufficient diagnostic criteria but like on the bright side poor impulse control doesn't necessarily mean that

that you're borderline yeah well which i don't think you are but i don't think i am like at all well i told you i asked chat gpt yeah if it had to yeah it said i had some borderline kind of personality structures but it's biased because it's like i don't know i don't talk you know i tell you know, I tell it specific things. Yeah. Borderline style things. Yes. And everybody acts borderlines sometimes, God knows.

But whatever. Of course. I'm just saying it's good and healthy to have poor impulse control. Kernberger? Oh, yeah. Well, it's funny because I always find myself like randomly stumbling upon some material that proves to be like relevant and topical. And this has been like illuminating my thoughts on Gloria Steinberg.

No. Narcissist. Actually, she seems fine. She's probably a little bit of a narcissist, but like a healthy one. But not like a malignant one. Yeah. But Lindsay Clancy. Yeah.

Well, with us, kind of narcissism and borderline is always relevant. Yeah. Because of the culture. Yeah. But I, but like the actual percentage of the population. that's like diagnosable is so slim. And so when you meet one, it's incredibly rare. And people always take it personally because they think like you're like being

accusatory, you're talking about them. But it is like such a rare condition. But I think like Lindsay Clancy, probably right? Borderline? That's your diagnosis? Probably not like the thing with borderline is that it's a very confusing term because he means it to as an umbrella term. for BPD and NPD and other associated disorders like psychopathy and antisocial personality,

which are like narcissistic extremes. They're like people who experience no guilt or remorse. Psychopaths. Yeah. Dark triad. Antisocials, yeah, that sort of thing. And that like the NPD part of the spectrum is the one that's like basically incredibly difficult to treat.

Wow. How come? Because they... They're broken. Yeah, and they present, I mean, I guess from my understanding, like, the borderline conditions all have in common that they're like a midway point between neurosis and psychosis. So these people, as he points out, often have a very intact capacity for reality testing.

They're connected to reality. They seem to be realistic. they like live on the same plane of reality that most people yeah they're not like schizophrenic yeah or psychotic generally speaking um but their inner world is very shallow and impoverished and tormented and it's like plagued by these very primitive infantile ego defenses that manifest as like uh pretty like dark and seething fantasies and delusions. So they're like outwardly put together and inwardly falling apart.

Right, right. And they are like kind of psychotic on the inside. And sometimes they snap. Yeah. They're like normal in the streets and psychotic in the sheets. Yeah, and sometimes the anxiety becomes so overpowering and so overwhelming that they do snap. Right. Well, they're splitting.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. They like can't live with these like contradictions. Yeah. That people with healthier ego formations can kind of like metabolize and process. Exactly. Yeah. Like they can't say like you hurt me but I love you.

Mm-hmm. They have to say you hurt me. So now you're trash and I reject you and you're bad. Right. Yeah. You're evil and a monster or whatever. Well, I was pretty lukewarm on the on the Clancy stuff. we talked about it before, but then the mistrial

really hooked me. And then maybe the algorithm too, because I've been doom scrolling a lot. Just then I just started to consume all of this content. Uh-huh. And it seems like, so there was a mistrial,

one juror held out seven days of deliberation. A male juror. Of course. They, and so they couldn't come to like a unanimous decision. And so a mistrial was declared. Yeah. And it's unclear, I guess, if it'll be prosecuted again.

And I don't know what happens in that case. I mean, I'm hearing that she'll probably walk if they can prove the... Because she's faking being in a wheelchair. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. If they can defend her not guilty due to insanity plea defense, then maybe she'll, maybe she won't walk, but she'll wheel herself out of there.

I mean, it seems like what's like mainly dividing people with the Clancy verdicts, people who want her to be guilty and those that want her to be NG, what N-G-M-I? Yeah. Not going to make it. No, not guilty, whatever. By reason of insanity, yeah. Is, like, is she evil?

Yes. And, like, if you think she's evil, you can understand how she, to me, it seems premeditated. Right, and we can all agree, including her and her husband, by the way, that she is technically culpable, right? The only people that disagree are like the Lindsay Clancy truthers who assert that Patrick Clancy framed her.

As somebody else pointed out, those people are essentially like room temp IQ flat earthers, but they are morally consistent because they, if indeed, their hairbrain theories prove to be true and he did in fact frame her, then she is innocent and should walk, right? So their internal moral logic is consistent. With everybody else, it's like a weird gray area. And reading Kernberg really threw like a wrench and my understanding of the situation because, again, she's not a ranting and raving lunatic. She's not like functionally psychotic.

But her judgment and morality and inner world is possibly if she has this diagnosis, which nobody has given her. I'm just speculating. This is like my armchair analysis is functionally impaired. Yes, because of her personality disorder. Yeah, her like sociopathie or psychopathy or whatever you want to call it.

I think sociopathy. Yeah. And like, of course we know that like people with sociopathy and psychopathy get like put away and given the chair all the time. Because again, they're able to demonstrate that they do at least intellectually, if not emotionally, know right from wrong. Well, so in Massachusetts, right? Yeah.

The burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove that they were... That she was sane at the time of the crime. Which is an almost impossible burden to clear because it's very hard to, you know, delve into someone's soul, like peer into someone's soul and ascertain their sanity. It's much easier, I think, though not that easy to demonstrate insanity. It must be easier, I guess. For us, like, I don't know. So then this one guy, the guy on the jury,

who refused to, like, absolve her, they were saying, they wanted him thrown off the jury. And her defense attorney was saying that, that he's not applying, like, he's not applying the law. He's, like, not following instructions, which seems so, like, coercive and insane. It does, but it is, perhaps true, like as the law is written in the state of Massachusetts.

Well, as a juror, you're allowed to, like, weigh the evidence that's been presented to you and draw your own conclusions. That's not, like, a misapplication of the understanding of the law. Yeah, yeah. But, like, I said this to Mike Tracy because he was, you know, God bless him, love him to death, because he'll go toe to toe even with me in spite of us being friends. He'll, like, fully, like, lay into me in public on the TL. No hard feelings, but he has to do it. We have a fundamental disagreement on this in that maybe we don't even, and I can defer to him on the legal and technical stuff because surely he knows better than I do. Like he is just like more well read and well informed on these sort of matters.

But like I'm a mom so I know something he doesn't, right? And like in the moral realm. And I don't think that it's like quote culture war as he puts it for people to permit the existence of evil. and to be outraged and upset at the fact that this woman clearly killed her three children in cold blood. Like, it's monstrous. And I do understand the kind of sensationalist, salacious nature of it. Like, it's really gripping everybody. I am a little, like, I get it now.

But initially, I was like, because people kill their kids all the time. Yeah, this is common. Like, so. It's just so interesting how this case in particular just hit that intersection of like true crime, female grievances. And I guess like live streaming. Yeah. Like it was just like a very well packaged spectacle.

Yeah. Perfect storm. RIP Gloria Steinem, whose brand of feminism led to Lindsay Clancy. Thank you, Queen. Your fan account Dasha Purve thinks it's a siop. And I meant to ask her what she meant by that because, like, I don't, I think it does feel like a siop. I agree with her. But, like, the thing with siops now is that they're totally, like, organic and autonomous.

Like, no one's putting anybody up to it. It's just, like, a snowball. I don't think, like, the tragedy itself is a siop. But I feel like the way things are, like, um, packaged and algorithmically pushed is like I felt this way about the Epstein stuff too and that's like the news cycle it's like it does feel engineered um to like trigger mass psychosis in some ways yeah and like yeah keep people you know engaged yeah like because it distracts them from their own lives it's like a form of escapism yeah yeah Yeah. I mean, once you start like, just like the details and the courtroom footage. Because they're so, to me, it's so like there's, they're so normal, right? Who's so normal?

Like the Clancy's. Yeah, they seem like it. Yeah. Like she drives IKEA, you know, like he's got some job. They're like young professionals. They're so, like, there's such normies. But then as you like interrogate their lives, you realize like it's just this like tragic. freak show. Well, Normies are often really repressed and scary. They're scarier than us, like,

freakish bohemian layabouts because we're not repressed or we're not as repressed as they are. Yeah. Which comes with its own downsides, obviously, but like, yeah, they live in this. I mean, I think, okay, so you said this and a lot of other people have pointed this out that women have rallied behind her. And I still think it's like a small minority of women, but they're like vocal and deranged. Because she's not attractive. And if she was beautiful like Amanda Knox or even pretty like Casey Anthony, they would really hate her.

Women really hated Casey Anthony. Doug Mackey also made a good point that women are rallying behind her because she was a young professional. Whereas Casey Anthony was a trashy party girl. Oh. Who killed her kids so she could, you know, get wasted and take black collar. or whatever she was doing. But she also got off by,

she was not, I think so, yeah. So there's a precedent. And so yeah, but I actually like, would argue with that to the extent, like, you know,

I've said this to you already, but I think like Lindsay Clancy has dead, scary black eyes and is like harsh and severe looking, but is on the whole like a pretty woman. And I think that the reason she did it, well, I think part of the reason that she did it is because she,

at the very least, she had like, a perception of herself as pretty. She clearly worked on her appearance lot. She stayed fit. I think she was back in the gym, like, days after her kids were born. Yeah. She had those exercise bands.

Yeah. And so she was like a woman who felt like she was destined to or entitled to more. That's my read on. That's fair. You know what I'm saying? No, definitely. I think she was very preoccupied with her appearance in the ways in which she was perceived.

And I think she probably suffered an immense amount of like intolerable guilt and anxiety over the fact that she couldn't just be present and be a mother. And on top of that was obviously like felt jilted and disappointed by her husband. Yeah. Who was maybe not openly cheating at that point. But I don't think he was. I don't think he was. I don't think he was. It is like it is also.

Why do you think he was cheating? I've seen women on TikTok say that. also, but I'm not compelled by their half. I don't know. I have no opinion in one way or another, but I think, like, in his defense, it is very, like, difficult and tiresome to live with a kind of borderline person who... For sure. It is constantly embroiled in mental health woes and making everybody suffer because of it inflicting themselves on...

I mean, I can't believe he kept knocking her up. Yeah, it's crazy. I think he is also to blame. Like, you know, I, you know, I'm sympathetic to people being like, oh, she killed his kids. And, you know, and he's also a tragic figure. Yeah, I mean, he's also like, yeah. But he's also culpable in something, not legally, probably, but like, you know, spiritually, emotionally. There is a good tweet that was, the, goes, that said, the way in which Patrick Clancy is

culpable is Lindsay Clancy knew he wouldn't kill her when he found out. Yeah, she wasn't scared of him. She didn't respect him and she was disappointed by him. And yeah, probably felt like she wanted more out of life and wasn't getting it and felt guilty because superficially, like, outwardly, all she ever wanted was to be like a mom to her three little darlings, you know. Well, I was thinking, I definitely don't think she anticipated that this would become like the spectacle that it is. I'm a little sympathetic to the notion that they, not that he framed her, but that they both like, because isn't, aren't they like pursuing like a malpractice suit? Yeah, I think they have a civil suit where they stand to gain a lot of money.

Like they might have been in on it together. I don't know about that. Like, I don't think, like, he was in on the murder of the children, but I... He might have been. But I think that maybe he, like, re... And she wanted out. But, like, she thought it would have just been, maybe, like, a news item, whatever. Yeah.

Not, like, a whole, like, show trial of this... Of the summer. Yeah. I don't really, like, have an opinion on Patrick. And then she could kind of start... One way or Lather, yeah. ...over again or whatever. Well, I guess she says that she wants to be, like, a PPP...

activist. an advocate now. Advocating for more women to have postpartum psychosis and snap and kill their kids. And there was like she's passionate about it. Already a copycat that woman who like was obsessed at the case and then

hanged her son in the basement which is crazy but she had three kids too and she only hang the one son. I find I see like Matt Walsh and Jack Posobiac and these guys make the case that you know feminist

type women really hate their male children. I don't know how true or widespread that is. There are individual cases. There was this pair of lesbians in Brazil who tortured their son to death. And of course, the son was the biological son of one of them who had been disappointed by men and then became a lesbian. And together they teamed up to like make a statement. against men or whatever.

I mean, I do think like not to that extreme, but there is like a strain of feminist rhetoric that's about, you know, like, that is at least like diminishing of the personhood of male children.

That literally Gloria Steinem came up with, by the way. Not male children, but all of her quotes are like belittling and diminishing of men who she was clearly very like crazy about and attached to

because she was like the ultimate pick me. I know. She really was. Yeah. I should look up some Steinem male quotes, remind me. I have some. But they're all basically about how men are trash and a disappointment and so on and so forth. Well, why did you date so many of them?

Why did you dress up like a Playboy bunny to write a damning expose? Yeah. But I guess my other read on Lindsay Clancy is that she seems like a very ungrateful. grateful person. Because definitely. I like don't understand like when people talk about how much she was like suffering. Yeah. Kind of like you know and like the iPhone notes she was writing that seem very like meticulous but like shallow.

Yeah. Exactly. Like she seems like there's not much like going on. She's like performing like the affect of a tortured person. Yeah. It's like another Kernbergian term pseudo self-awareness. where they can speak with like, frankness and candor

about their failures and shortcomings. But it serves no ultimate, like, productive or redemptive purpose. It's just a way of, like, getting people off their trail. And, okay, like, she basically had avoided the two-income trap, had a nanny. I think he was putting the kids to sleep.

So, yeah, I get it. It's difficult with three kids, it's difficult with one, but like, she had actually a lot of help and resources, and I made this point and some guy said, no, Anna, you don't understand. She wrote out these elaborate

gratitude lists of people and things she was grateful for, as if that's kind of exculpating evidence. That's completely incriminating, because if it occurs to you to write a list of people and things you're grateful for, that means it's also occurred to you that you're not grateful at all and you're, in fact,

angry and resentful. Yeah. It's crazy. Like, have you ever written a gratitude list? Can you imagine sitting down to write a gratitude list? No, it's the writing it down. That's like, yeah. Because, yeah, of course, we all have moments where we're feeling like selfish and

preoccupied and you kind of, you know. Snap out of it. You think like, oh, no, think about, you know, what you're grateful for. But like to write it down also is like psychotic. It's psycho. Why? So someone can find it at your murder trial? Yeah.

Yeah. Like everything she, all of her musings, just seems so like performative. Like if my note, if I, God forbid, was ever on trial for something? Like my iPhone notes are psycho. You're, yeah, I know. But this is what. And I'm a prolific writer, so there's much more.

But, well, this is what scares me. If ever one of us got nabbed for some Kafka-esque crime, they would discover, like, the iPhone notes and be like, man, this bitch is evil and dark. I started keeping, like, a diary because I was trying to fertility max. And so I was keeping like a diary of my emotions before ovulation and before my period. And then I would like revisit them much later and be like, wait, you sound like so depressed and so morbid. And that's another thing that like you shouldn't get in the habit of writing down your thoughts. I mean, and like sitting with them.

No, I think it's okay to write down your thoughts. But you shouldn't like also, you shouldn't revisit them. Like you shouldn't revisit the scene of the crime like a serial killer. Like you shouldn't be too preoccupied. I mean, my, like, my reason for doing that was just like a fact-finding mission because I wanted to, like, see how the hormonal flux was developing or whatever. I do. I mean, I have such erratic moods. Yeah.

That it helps me actually to not like, I'm not like an active journaler, but. Same. And it does help me to revisit things because it gives me like perspective. And clarity. Oh, like, you felt this bad. and then you felt okay. Because you were hormonal. Like, yeah, sometimes you sit down and you like journal with a purpose.

But like being an active journaler past the age of like 16 or 20, especially if you're like a busy professional or a busy mom is weird. Well, she wasn't a very active journaler. Oh, okay. She was just jotting down like no. But like she was also writing like Facebook posts and letters to other moms. She didn't have a group chat, I'm guessing. Huh?

Maybe if she had a gorgeous lady's group chat, things would have turned out. Psychopathic ladies group chat. Like that's the thing too. I'm like, the group chat's going to get aired out when I'm in court. Oh, yeah. We all go to jail. I know. For thought crime, wrong thing.

It just would be like so, like, the most scandalous thing about clans. is that she did a triple side. Yeah. But like all of her like interior world is actually so like tepid. Yeah, it's bland. Yeah. And affectless. Scary.

That's another thing that Kernberg mentions how often borderline people will present as like bland and affectless and unable to enjoy life because they're not getting the external stimuli they need, which is like constant. approval and validation. He calls it tribute. Tribute. Yeah. That's like what they're seeking. Right. Oh, God. And he makes this really great point that obviously everybody likes approval and validation and that sort of thing, but they seem like uniquely dependent on it, but are actually like meaningfully incapable of depending on anyone and find like bonds and ties to be like smothering and boring. Yeah.

I mean, that check, that sounds about right. I mean, the most damning thing for me is like the errand, you know, and she looked up how far away the restaurant was. And then the superficial cuts. Perez Hilton was cutting deeper than that. Like, and then jumping out the second story window, it's like, I don't believe that she made a meaningful suicide. side attempt after she killed her kids.

I don't either, especially like, yeah, when you think about that she wasn't just some random dumb void who didn't know any better. She was a labor and delivery nurse. So she was presumably trained in a basic medical education. Yeah. They do tell you how to kill yourself in medical school. I mean, you could infer, you know. I guess she was Googling.

It just all of her phone. activity feels very performative. Yeah. Anyway, what was that woman's name in like the 40s who killed her three kids? Oh, Constance Fisher. I mean, I guess a lot of people are up in arms with the potential that she might walk because the idea is that she could potentially reoffend. And I like wouldn't be surprised if there were mentally ill men lining up to nut inside.

I'm sure like crazy, aberrant criminals have all sorts of deranged admirers. I think that's mostly women. Who admire, well, what's that guy? Like, Wade Smith or something. And he like, he looks like, um,

G. Easy. No, I don't know. What do you do? But with like a crazy like joke or smile tattoo. Uh-uh. Uh,

what happens if I Google him? I think. it is primarily women who fix it on like murderers and incarcerated men. Oh, Wade Wilson. He killed two women in Florida. But he looks like this. He looks like

Don Draper with face tattoos. So women are like lining up writing him like admiring letters. I can fix him. I would bet that it's rare. I don't think men are like going to be writing.

No, no, definitely not. But you could, you know, she could. I could see a scenario where if she gets out, she would like maybe. Jody Arias, Casey Anthony, Amanda Knox during the period which she was accused have all attracted male admirers to varying degrees. Yeah. I mean, never estimate the stupidity of male horniness. They're really pathetic creatures.

I sound like Gloria Stein now, but really. It's insane. I mean, Clancy just looks like such a witch. You'd have to be a real sick. You know, there are plenty of men who, um, whose major sexual fantasy is like quasi-raping a paraplegic. Oh, for real. I remember when I was like, like 19 or 20 or something. Um, maybe a little older like 23 or 25.

Um, my boyfriend's brother's friend was this guy who had like served in the military and, um, clearly had PTSD but also probably was a sociopath before that. And he once informed me that he had just come back from fucking a midget. And next on his bucket list was a quadruple amputee. Mind you was like six, five and three hundred pounds, really grotesque looking man. And I was just like, a Jesus. What a headdress. Oh my gosh.

I mean, yeah. So like there is a scenario where some guys. I just give her three more kids. She's pretty young, right? She's in her 30s? She's like 36. Okay. But she has time.

She's got time. Well, Constance, yeah, she had three more kids in her 30s after killing the first three. And then killed the second batch. Same guy. Yeah. Same husband. Yeah.

Like petitioned to get a release from the asylum. They had three more kids and she did it again. Yeah. Because trauma demands to be repeated. Yep. but cautionary tale yeah I mean I doubt Lindsay Clancy is going to be harder if she is legitimately a paraplegic

which juries out jury's out it'll be harder for her to chase the kids down and you know the wheelchair wall Lindsay Clancy is like your Noelia Castillo Ramos where I just like don't believe that she was left paralyzed from falling from a mental facility balcony or whatever

that girl who got euthanized in Spain I think she was full of beans and doing it for attention RIP Queen RAP you would have love Reds there Well yeah Should we talk about Steinem? Yeah

Um CIA a spook I I Never really I actually don't remember We didn't really learn about her at women's college, even though I obviously read a lot of feminist philosophy and curriculum, but it's because she wasn't really like an intellectual.

She just went on TV and stuff. She was like a magazine girl. Yeah, writer girly and socially. Yeah, she just was like a mouthpiece for like establishment. Well, which is why older, uglier feminists really hated her. I read an essay by Nora Ephron. I want to say from the 60s or 70s, which speculated that her falling out with the godmother of feminism,

Betty Friedan happened because Betty was old and ugly. And Gloria Steinem simply eclipster because she was like young, beautiful, sexy, legy, telegenic. Well, that's second wave. Yeah. Right. Yeah, but they were like in the same, I guess, like caucus pressure group or whatever. whatever and she was they were really like it was a crazy one-sided beef where betty for dan because

she was like an aggressive and um overactive jewish woman was going around trying to um disgrace and smear gloria steinam all over the place in a way that was just like creepy and misplace i mean she had a lot of haters actually yeah she still does yeah well friend of the pod glenda orgasm I was posting this Jacobin article that I read called Gloria Steinem was the godmother of neoliberal feminism. Oh yeah, I noticed that. By Jenny Brown. That was like a really shady, well, it's like, it sort of is rehashing. There was some like feminist collective called Red Stockings that like published an expose of her in the 70s about her like CIA ties.

Yeah. Her big sort of thing was Miss magazine. EV magazine. Yep. And so it's a really long article about how like like the actual like radical feminists who started the movement were kind of like shut out of Miss Magazine. But like by that token, can you blame Gloria Steinem? Like she was trying to basically turn feminism into a palatable mainstream force.

So of course her haters are right because they resented that she was no intellectual. and they resented that she was diluting the movement and they were correct about this, but also she was making the movement more widespread and powerful and effective through her spokeswomenhip. Not like for leftists who wanted feminism, I guess,

to like address material concern. A working class woman. Whereas she kind of made it all about kind of like, I mean it is neoliberal. It's like, you know, like personal self-improvement. Yeah. At the expense of the collective. Yeah, my, I mean, my favorite tribute homage was Michael E. Jones, who tweeted proof that only the good die young.

So shady. I mean, can I say something? I really admire Gloria Steinem on the individual level. Yeah. As an outstanding individual. Sure. No, she's. She was beautiful.

she was smart she was sexy classy she lived effective powerful yeah she lived what can you say she lived a great pretty funny she lived a great life pretty funny not a dud like very media trained yeah a special and charismatic person i you know i feel about her the way that i feel about rgb who i also appreciate as you know an exemplar of individualism but like i find Gloria steinam's like uh views and legacy to be like harmful and horrible. I find it kind of like mid. Well, she's just a product of her time. She was just like the zeitgeist of that era.

She like looked the part. She said the right things or ostensibly, you know. And like also of her culture and ethnicity because she comes from a nice Jewish family in the Midwest. She was born in Toledo, Ohio. Her dad was charming and charismatic, but kind of a confidence man and a huckster, and he was always down and out.

Her mother, this is very interesting, was the first female reporter at their local newspaper. So like the apple don't fall far from the tree. They divorced when Gloria was around 10 years old and her sister was around 19 and her sister immediately went off to college. So she was basically left alone to take care of her mother who was like increasingly addled

and hysterical. And here I'll pull up, yeah, I think it was like the New York Times obituary. Her mother had an affair and then a nervous breakdown became addicted to sedative and spent two years in a sanitarium all before Gloria was born.

Yeah, after her parents divorced and her sister went off to college, Gloria was stuck with taking care of her ailing mother until she went to college herself. The mother then went to California where she was taken care of by her ex-husband, who she divorced. And she, I think Gloria Stein, you know, used her mother's story as like a parable of the challenges women face and balancing, like, motherhood with the workplace and that sort of thing. But it sounds like her mother was also just a narcissistic personality. Probably. That's, yeah, that's what it sounds like.

And that's, that probably imbued her with like an ego wound of her own that she, you know, sought to rectify through her professional accomplishments. Like she's really, I don't know, I guess she's type A. Yeah, she is incredibly successful and accomplished. But I also think that just like based on the way that she speaks of her dad versus her mother, she's like a classic feminist and that she's a Jewish woman who was only, doing what daddy wanted for her. He wanted her to be emancipated and successful. Nobody was oppressing her. These people have a Jewish women are uniquely, I was thinking about this dawned on

me the other day. Jewish women are unique among women and that they're perhaps the only women who as a group reject and defy being submissive to men. Most women want to submit to a man, whether or not they end up doing it. Not not anymore, not these days. Yeah, because they successful, it's like the ordeal of civility but for women. First there was like Marxism, then Freudianism, and then feminism. Feminism is also like a Jewish assimilation strategy.

Interesting. That like takes what... Subversive idea. Yeah, it's a subversive idea that what takes what comes naturally to Jewish people and tries to like infect the goy cattle with it. And make it a universal. They can't handle it. And the reality is like most women don't

like feminism and don't want to be feminists but of course they've been so like potently conditioned and brainwash they like think they do I mean at this you know we're on like fifth wave now yeah I have no idea but she was she was really only doing what came natural and right for her it's like RGB who was like you know put herself through law school with an 18 month old infant and a husband who was suffering from cancer and she was Steinem was 92 yeah they all yeah they all live to like a hundred years old BTW. Like

it's hard to really like take her to task in like the grand scheme of her life. It's hard, but Jacobin magazine's doing it. The body's not even cold. So they, okay. It just is like,

it just rehashes, lots of like bitter feminist like dramas. Because since she was by far like the most successful. successful one more like unsuccessful but radical feminists weren't like it's a it wasn't they weren't establishment so they weren't you know given the platform that she was

yeah um her magazine pioneered the use of private foundation funding to steer feminist movement priorities the miss foundation dispensed money to approve feminist projects and created a database of feminist around the country and the world it ceded the founding of the national black feminist organization a black women's group. But then it gets into how she got all this like CIA funding before she did all this. Oh yeah. Well, that video that you sent me was amazing. Yeah.

I mean, also just like I told you this already, but I find her, you know, low, depressive voice to be like really sexy and relaxing. I like listening to her speak. She's not shrill. She's not shrill. And yet, you're right. She's not like a great intellectual or an ideas person, but she is very clearly a smart person. you can tell. She has the voice of a smart person. She's a good communicator. And the affect of a smart person. She's not dumb. And so like I can

understand like why she was mad that men and other feminists didn't take her seriously. That was like her one quam. She felt like, I don't buy, I don't buy that. I mean, sure. I mean, what she was doing when she put on that bunny costume. No, I know. I know. That was so funny where she like went undercover at the playway club. It's so disingenuous. I mean, she was all she's honestly, obviously much like Jane Fonda, a huge pick meet who understood and knew that she was an attractive woman and derived an immense amount of pleasure from it,

which is fine and normal and natural. But instead of just accepting that about herself, she like overcompensated by pretending to be a friend of women, which she was not. Well, do you remember when she got in trouble when she was like shilling for Hillary on the Bill Mars show?

The Bernie stuff. Yeah. Yeah. She said that young women only supported Sanders because quote, that's where the boys are. The boys are with Bernie. We talked about that when it happened. I don't know if you remember it was like years ago, but. But she's right.

And she knows. You think she's right that girls only went for Bernie. Not only, not only, but I do think that like, I don't know. The dirtbag left so called was like it had like a, however dysgenic, but like masculine gravity. Well, leftism always. did up until recently. I think the dirtbag left was the... It was like a masculine rebranding of kind of, you know...

But it was that we, like... No, that's so true. It was the last gasp of like, what the 60s feminists and hippies noted when they said like we would go into these spaces that were supposedly egalitarian and communal and the men would order us around and make us fetch some beers and make them sandwiches and rape us.

And they were very patriarchal back then. But so hot. So I'm just saying she would know. The CIA thing is very interesting because a lot of people, a lot of leftists obviously hate her for being CIA. And she was basically paid by the CA between 1958 and 1962 to lead something called the Independent Research Service, IRS, which is like a nonprofit educational foundation that recruited and provided government support. for American students to attend communist-run youth festivals in Europe. And ostensibly, as she herself points out in that interview, it was to combat Soviet messaging.

Yeah. Because, you know, America and the USSR were in a Cold War. And as she herself points out, again, it was much easier and better for her to go and work for the CIA versus for like a private foundation or individual because the latter, she said, had particular points of view and agendas. and they were much more restrictive. The Ford Foundation told her point blank

that her messaging was, quote, too liberal and too controversial and would endanger their cultural programming abroad. And then on the other hand, she says this very interesting thing that the CIA funds were basically free because they would write you like a blank check. And they didn't tell you what to say or do one way or another, what to promote. And this came as a surprise to her

because she had this classic liberal view of the CIA as a quote right wing incendiary group and was shocked to discover that this was far from the case and they were enlightened, liberal and non-partisan. I mean, she does seem like a spook all around. Like the magazine, all of it.

The ability with which she was able to like navigate elite institutions that she like obviously didn't mind like covertly funded political work. Yeah. and she could like operate in like activist state spaces yeah and establishment spaces well like I don't think that's that even conspiratorial no no no and I like she was very like well positioned yeah I mean I get that and I respect that because you know you you have to like get things done

by any means necessary the question is like what kind of message are you spreading you know when Peter tells me to log on and tweet something. He says, tonight, Dasha, you're going to get really drunk. Around 3 a.m. you're going to fire off. Just whatever comes in your mind about Lindsay Clancy. Just let it rip.

Blank check. Start provoking people. We'll assess the damage tomorrow. You're my girl. Go get him. I get it. I get it. But it's ironic that leftists hate her for being CIA because they're laboring under

the same illusion that she was original. laboring under it, which is like the CIA is like a right-wing incendiary incendiary organization, when they're actually, more or less an organization that promotes and spreads communism, just the American, not the Russian version of it. Exactly. And that's what she was being paid for. It wasn't to combat communism in general. It was to combat the Soviet.

Yeah. It was to like neutralize the competitor, the competition. That's all it was. But in a way that's what people feel like she did with feminism was like she made it, you know, she was this mouthpiece that kind of like neutered it. Yeah. Made it more like packaged and glossy and palatable. But in that way sort of like defanged it. Like robbed out of its perspective.

What was Dworkin's opinion on Steinem? Probably hated her. Hmm. And I, well, obviously, we've talked a lot about the Didian women's movement essay, which is like, She doesn't mention her by name, but it's like basically about Steinem. And, but Didion never said anything about, um, about her directly, but I found a quote from Gloria Steinem about Didian. And I guess things that are probably soured between them at this point.

I don't know if they were ever good, but, you know, they were at odds. This is like, damn, shots fired. She said, ask her how come If she spends all her time crying and swimming And struggling to open a car door, she finds the energy to write so much. That's so good. I was like, ouch.

Fucking bitch. But not no. Not no. That is very good. Yeah, I was like cutting. I mean, this just makes me sad and nostalgic because the catty bitches of Yora were just like a higher quality catty bitch than the like AOC being like,

Don't be weird. Oh. The Jacobin article had some more, these are funny, the Bernie one, obviously, but the way they, they're editorializing her like quips about why they're like problematic. Steinem loved witty aphorisms that express terrible politics. I've been married to a Marxist and a fascist, and neither one of them ever took out the garbage. Aside from garbage being a rare bit of male-coated housework, the quote implies that communists and fascists are equally bad.

She liked to quote a woman cab driver in Boston who told her, if men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament. While funny, this gets the causality of women's oppression backwards. Oh my God. Founding radical feminist theorist Simone DeBois argued that women are oppressed because we do reproductive labor. If men could get pregnant, they would be the oppressed sex. We're fucking relax.

I see why no one wanted to put any of these radical feminists on TV. They're not very funny at all. well fun fact fun fact Andrew Dworkin and Gloria Steinem maintained a close friendship and mutual respect

as feminist allies wow yeah I would have thought Dworkin I guess Dworkin wasn't really like The original Red Scare podcast Wait you wouldn't have guessed Dworkin was a Marxist

No I don't think Dworkin really was a Marxist classically But they're both like Progressive liberals. So they're both left-leaning for sure. But Marxists didn't really like Steinem, like actual convicted leftists.

Which makes me like her more. I've actually gained a new counter appreciation for her. We actually needed her to disseminate a new, she's beautiful and smart and Marxist hater. And a picnic. I mean, the bunny thing. I was like that's so me

I know but that's so some shit I would do I'm doing it as a bit But you know they're all like that It's like okay like I get it And still she doesn't grind my gears Like Jane Fonda does Well Stop sexualizing my Playboy Bunny costume

No don't Please stop sexualizing my tight wet cotton tail Please These sexist working conditions I can't stand there to demonstrate the degrading working conditions, low paying. That women, it's like, they're prostitutes. They're dressed like little bunny rabbits.

What do you think? An expose about how my sexy bunny costume is degrading. I mean, that was a more innocent time. So people didn't see it coming though I'm sure some people saw through her bullshit But yeah I don't buy the bit that she feels like it like made it deprived her of like more serious opportunities It's like obviously always what she kind of like wanted for herself Yeah just to have like the beautiful hair on TV Yeah though she says um

That um she um She um suffered from low self-esteem and was very insecure No. It's so funny. She talks It's actually She's very like self-aware Yet not

And she says that despite her apparently confidence in bravado Her like famous aviators and curtain of hair Were a way of like hiding her face Because she felt like she was way too tall And ungainly and had a pudding face Which like not know But a very pleasant pudding face She looked great in that New York Times.

I know. She's sort of like, is older, obviously, but it's like smooth. Were you, you were with me, right, when we went to see some movie in the East Village for the pod and she was standing in the lobby with some like millennial handlers? What was that? I think it was at film forum. Yeah. Maybe there was a documentary of, no. I don't remember.

But I vaguely do recall that. Or maybe, no, oh my God, no, it was when we went, it was at AMC. Yeah. And it was when we went to go see Red Sparrow. Oh, that's so funny. Yeah. That's so funny. The Anna Chapman movie.

Yeah. It's all coming back to me. Yeah. What's her sign? I don't know. That's a good question. I'm looking up her eneogram type right now. Let's, yeah.

March 25. So that's Aries or Pisces? Wow. maybe Cusp, March 25th. Yeah, Aries, because Lenny is March 28th. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, that is pretty cool.

That makes sense. Yeah. Headstrong. I wonder if there's like an astro theme, so we get a bigger, a better picture. Lindsay Clancy, aries moon. What does that mean? Like, well, secretly aggressive and fiery. Me and Monica are Aries moons.

Yeah. Or no, she's in Aries. Monica's in Aries, yeah. I'm in Aries Moon. Yeah. So that's why I got that dog in me. Yeah, but it's like, it's secretly prone to aggressive and antisocial behavior. Yeah.

Because it's like your private emotional life. With the Leo's son too. I could tell you that just be a recipe. She has a Leo son. Okay. So, yeah. Damn. What's her?

And she's, yeah, and what's her, we don't know her. We don't know her birth time. So we got to write her a letter in prison. Yeah. Hey Lindsay, come on the pod. Okay, what is... I have to pee really quick. Oh, Steinem is Aries Sun, Leo Moon, Scorpio Rising. What were we rapping about?

I guess I'm Saj Moon. Yeah. Which explains why, in spite of my inhibited and reserved outward demeanor, I'm prone to promiscuous outburst. I attribute that more to your cusp. Maybe. But I don't know enough about the satch moon, really. Nietzsche was in Arizman, I heard.

Yeah, it's like, yeah, impulsiveness and promiscuity, which they call adventurousness. That's good. High openness. And that's all I really have for sign, I'm honestly. Yeah. R-R-B. Well, well, interestingly, right, she famously marched with Caesar Chavez and aided in the defense of Angela Davis. I almost said Angela Nagel. They were all in the mix. Like, yeah, they were the main heads for sure. And I think, like, yeah, I don't know much about her relationship to Didion or whether there even was one. But, you know, in the woman's movement essay, Didion has that great line about how, like,

progs tried to mobilize the proletariat and then minorities and found that these groups were largely indifferent and they had to invent like a revolutionary block whole cloth from women never mind I can't find my quote right she said that

feminist analysis seemed like a particularly narrow and cracked determinism it's a great essay that it's so true but they are just such like Steinem's little tossed off snark

about her crying and swimming yeah it's like they are just coming at like femininity from like really radically different yeah not a Jewish woman John Didian that's true doesn't have that that fire in her

no yeah she was kind of like like wan and language probably also anti-Semitic she lived in L.A. Yeah She was in Hollywood. She was like a pro? Yeah, I think so. Not a Cal.

No, I think like Sacramento. But you know, they're both pretty, so I trust their opinions on one another because it clearly wasn't like. So true. Yeah. And Steinem really was super pretty. Not my type, but. No, same. Same.

But I always prefer. I like when I have an appreciation for like a woman who's not my type because then you know it's real. exactly like that woman from yellowstone who's such a knockout Kelly Riley bro Beth yeah it's awesome she's so hot and cool she's so crazy on the show too yeah she's the victim of a lot of violence on the show mm-hmm and there's a small whatever never mind I'm not gonna it doesn't matter but I literally scrolled past her picture and was like a wooga who is that then immediately sent to the girls chat. Got you think about watching Yellowstone.

Yeah, no. I mean. And it was like a really bad outfit. It's like a gold body con LaMay dress and then suede boots like textures that don't belong together which made it more sexual, you know? Yeah. It's Montana. Yeah.

Oh, she's awesome. Great actress too. I think Australian. Hmm. But like one of those secret Australians who's like a better American than we could ever. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But she's like, I guess what.

Sydney Sweeney looks like to most people. Hubba. Yeah. Well, she has a little more like, she's more actressy. Yeah. Sydney is just the CERN, the new CERN campaign. SORN. And the Sadie Sink.

Calvin Klein. It's also demoralizing. I know. I'm like, the creative direction. Solace and mediocre. What are we talking about? I was looking at, um, that, because people are like, we're so back finally like hot white girls and sexy poses and it's like no this is all like yeah

depressing and neoliberal uh i was looking at like um terry richardson for um katherine hamnet denim it's like a girl grabbing a guy's cock a guy putting his fingers in a girl's mouth it's so intense and insane it's like basically pornography honestly i like the tate mcray of Tate McCray again, but she did a Calvin Klein campaign, like just a little, like a little week a week before that that people didn't really seem to care about, but she's actually, because she's a dancer, she's really like, buff. She's just moving in a more interesting way. But even that, you know, I wasn't like, it's just, we're not back.

No. It's never been worse. Yeah, I know. Just so devoid of, like, a... Sernovich lingerie. Even like the sweet, you know, and I, you know, and I, like, you know, and I, you know, you know, I love the big naturals on Sydney, of course, but like this Betty Boop crap in this like weirdly lit, it just looks like AI.

It may as well be AI. Yeah, it's too like retouched. We don't need an angled to, like, I don't know what I'm looking at. It doesn't look real. It's not. Yeah. It has no basis in reality. And like, listen, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a broad with, uh,

big titty's in a short wide midsection so i know all the angles and tricks to make it look like you have a longer thinner waistline including doing like the finger swoop where you pull up your panties and hook hook them the garter bales craning your arm out to like cover your waist and make your arm look thinner at the same time kill two birds with one stone she's not fooling me i mean she looks she looks fine her ass looks really nice yeah the physical physique is, you know, it's, it's, I'm not complaining. It's fine. She doesn't move me like Kelly Riley.

No. Because I don't know what she looks like. Actually, I saw a photo of her without makeup and people are like, no, she's like ugly in mid and it's like, no, she looks better without makeup because she looks like a real human being. No, no, she's beautiful. She's in, if you want it like just a little taste of Kelly Riley. Oh, no.

I mean Sweeney without makeup because she like. Yeah. When they post that picture of her in the like reality winter. Yeah, that's way sexier because she looks like a person. She has like bags in her eyes. Yeah. She looks hotter. Yeah.

And when she's wearing like so, I mean, it is just like drag. Yeah. It's like a banal point to even make. But like. Yeah. And since we're getting catty and feminine in the 90s, they used to consistently like dog on Anna Nicole Smith for having the same like Germanic fetish lingerie, trailer trash aesthetic. And she was actually like an insanely beautiful woman with a quote, lethal face card. Oh yeah.

She was amazing. I mean, she knows it. And now, yeah, that aesthetic has come full circle. And it just, to me, it's the aesthetic of, like, poverty. It is. It's not, um, I mean, I sent this to Art Girls chat. She did, like, a tennis photo shoot a couple years ago where she has more, like, kind of brawn hair.

Yeah. And she's, like, is bent over the net in a way that's just a little, it's still a slop, but, yeah, you know, just the, like, Miss Piggy blonde. Mm-hmm. doesn't do it for me. No. And like I really like don't have anything against her. And she seems like a nice girl.

And she has like a bubbly personality, whatever. But like. And by the way, I'm happy she's getting her bag. Yes. But the state of like fashion photography is so low and so bad. I know. I mean,

and Veronica was saying some shit like it's not even technically possible to make some of the photographs that were made in like the 90s and early 2000s. I mean, I like can't believe that, but I do believe her. We, like you somehow you can't, I think. Yeah. There's just an ethos that's, that's gone from this earth.

True. Or just maybe it's possible, but it would never be like in a fashion campaign. Mm-hmm. Because like the infrastructure isn't there. Yeah. Well, on that note, should we discuss Galliano? Mm-hmm. Sad.

Mm-hmm. I read a New York Times article about, like, what went down behind the scenes, like how the, you know, the long, twisted thorny road to Junk Leanos canceled recalcelation. That's, you know, it's about Jewish leaders. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I was texting with Patrick, of course. Of course. Wait, go ahead.

It describes how, like, yeah, winter was basically, like, obviously gunning. really hard for Gagalliano. He would have been the third designer to have like a met gala all of his own, you know. It was a very high honor. As a living designer, right? Yeah. Something like that. Um, uh, she didn't really get like board approval, I guess, but, um, they pushed ahead with the plan. Winter and other met leaders appeared to misread some essential realities of the moment. The fashion world's forgiving and commercially driven values do not often reflect broader public sentiment. The Met leaders, many of them non-Jewish, seemed out of touch with the raw feelings of the city's Jewish residents who had witnessed searing incidents of anti-Semitism over the summer. And even the extraordinary ability of winter to sweep away scandal, criticism, and controversies through sheer will and decisiveness has its limits.

It was a perfect storm of unnecessary insensitivity, said Rabbi David Inber, senior director of Jewish life and senior director of the Bronfman Center. senior director of Jewish matching Elijah Weisel chairman of the so literally they use the term I'm not Jewish leaders Jewish leaders

coordinated behind the scenes Elijah Weizel chairman of the Eli Wiesel Foundation if praise for Hitler and references to the gas chambers do not disqualify someone where is the line

the Jewish leaders made their support public when the show was announced but the full board of the Met was never consulted leaving many feeling that there had not been sufficient deliberation about the appropriateness of the museum's choice. Okay, this seems like a clear-cut case of like, I guess,

negligence and forgetfulness. And, well, they seem to have been fine with it until very recently. And then they like sparked a furor. But this is. Well, they don't want the, after the summer of anti-Semitic. I don't know. I've been in Spain. But it seems, so I don't know.

It seems like they didn't really care originally. and then something activated them. And this is like a very old story. Like Galliano got, um, convicted of anti-Semitic hate speech by a French court in 2011. We talked about high low. Yeah.

And he, I mean, they made him, he met with the Jewish leaders. Yeah, they made him do the, the Apologia tour. They made him,

you know, he willingly went to rehab. He lost his job as creative director of Dior. Yeah. I think it took him something like 10 years to get another job at Marjala. Yeah. So like I feel like he's more than rehabilitated himself. But that's not even like besides the point.

And the Jewish leaders are Arnie Glimpshire, an art world titan who threatened to cut the museum out of his will. That's so Jewish. Julie Menon, the speaker of the city council, never heard of her. And then this guy, Elisha Weissel, who's the chairman of the Eli Waisalph. foundation, but actually just like Eli Waisal's son. Yeah. And it's like your dad was ass-grabbing interns, which is like a comparable crime as far as crimes are concerned.

It's pretty low on the hierarchy. It's not like strangling your children's death with exercise bands. Well, what I didn't realize, I think you're right. I think in the article they allude to not wanting to speak. Yeah. How because of the anti-Semitism, they didn't want to play into the trope of the annoying Jew who doesn't let people have. fun. They like they really didn't want to do that. But then in August a Facebook post written by a

fashion publicist Lauren London began to ricochet around industry circles about a more recent event allegedly involving Goliano. London described an encounter she had said she had with the designer in 2019 at the luxury Henry Shenhua spa an alcohol free wellness retreat in Italy. She wrote that her friend had been speaking in Hebrew on her cell phone when Gagliano overheard her and began screaming Merry Christmas. When my friend asked him if he had a problem with Hebrew, he promptly and very unapologetically responded that he did. She then told him that she had a lot of his clothes.

And when she got back to her home in Israel, she would dispose of them. He told her to please do. Do you think that happened? No. I think it's a totally dubious fabricated kind of like rep. First of all, if it was an alcohol free, that seems like a very damning detail to be like,

oh, no, he is anti-Semitic. He's not just wrong. Oh, I didn't even catch that. Yeah, yeah, because it seems like when that original incident happened. Three. Remember in the documentary? They were like,

he was going to the same bar and getting tanked with blackout drunk. But even when they're asking him about it in the documentary, he's like, there was just one incident. And they're like, no, no, there were two. And then there's like a sub-tiles. Like, actually there were three. He kept going to a little parlor and having

anti-Semitic albert. Chimboats. That's so funny. And I guess Patrick was of the mind that when this trio of incidents happened that Galeano was not actually an anti-Semite that he was merely blackout drunk and making a fool of himself. I don't know. I mean, maybe he was, but it doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. Who cares? People are allowed to have ugly and unsavory opinions about individuals and groups, especially if they're artists, but really any

people. Yeah. That's like what we're fighting for. I kind of like got into it with Adam Lerer because he said something like, well, leave the man alone and let him have his retrospective. He made a terrible mistake. And I was like, what terrible mistake is that? He didn't make a terrible mistake. The only mistake he made was that he got blackout drunk and made a fool of himself. He embarrassed himself. He didn't hurt or harm anybody. Words cannot hurt or harm you. Definitely not.

I mean, the people at La Perla weren't even Jewish. It was like a Chinese guy. Like, he was clearly, if we forgive, if we're letting Lindsay Clancy off the hook. That's what I'm saying. Being blackout drunk should really give you carp blanche. To strangle your kids. Yeah. but they did he wasn't exactly like dropped or canceled they did this like classic workplace

maneuver where they probably pressured him behind the scenes to resign no they I mean Anna Vogue made a statement that didn't acknowledge the like details but said like that it was divisive and it's been postponed or something they made some like classy okay um but it just I mean everyone really was excited for that Matt Galla. That's what the people want to imply that people don't want, I mean, most people don't know or care about, like they don't know what the Matt Gala is and they don't care

about it. But also like this idea that these like remarks that kind of like came to light. Yeah. He's been, he's known for. That's like part of his lore. Yeah. It's not. It's why people love him. Exactly. And the amazing, you know,

the amazing design. Signure. A G. a genius. I was a little annoyed with everyone who was like apparently defending him in the theme because it is a good idea and everyone knows it. But doing this thing like he's atoned for his sins and paid his debt to society. And it's like what debt to society is that again? What?

And he, yeah. Like his, he's been such a, he's made such a net contribution to society because he's made the world. We're in debt to him. I know. He's made the world a more. interesting and beautiful place in his own small way, right? I get it.

He's not like a statesman or the Pope or something, but like in his own small way, he has made a positive contribution. And his like little anti-Semitic outbursts, all three of them like barely erode this contribution. He's an amazing guy. Do you remember in the dog? I rewatched it recently. He twice actually.

But when they're trying to get him to go to rehab and he takes his shirt off and says, does this look like the body of an alcoholic? It's like, yes, yes, it does. And the montage of his like runway walks at the end of every show is just so good. And he's incredible. What's the theme going to be now? Some dog shit. Somebody said Eileen Fisher.

What was it last year? Like being disabled? Yeah. Dan was like another gay black guy. We had black dandies. Let us have a Gagliano. Yeah. Like why?

Let us have like a Spanish dandy. Whatever he is. Corsic in Italian. I don't fucking know. He's from Gibraltar. Yeah. He was born. He sounds Italian, but I guess he's from Spanish.

He's like Spanish Italian. Probably is a little anti-Semitic. So what? Well, if he wasn't before, now he is, that's for sure. They have that effect. on people. Well, no, he's such a class act. It's so funny. This woman Julie Menden called it, quote, a gut punch to the Jewish community. And Alice Tisch said it bespeaks a failure of government. She said, it's not in the museum's interest to have this perception out there. And it flies in the face of your

rich curatorial history and ongoing fiscal and moral leadership. Like, what is in their interest having like a success of generations of like weird mystery meet Zoom or celebrity? nobody has heard of or cared about besmirch the legacy of their hallowed institution. The theme of next year's Matt Galley is Israel. Yeah, it should be.

They should just go and white and do a whole zio ball. This is from his statement. He said, I remained fully accountable for the pain caused by my words in the past, particularly they heard I caused

to the Jewish and Asian communities. And I remain deeply sorry. I don't remember a Asian. Well, I guess because those people were Asian. Right? Yeah, but he didn't call him a chain or a gook or anything. I was confused by that.

I understand that meaningful atonement is not achieved through an exhibition, institutional recognition, or a single public gesture. It is a continuing responsibility demonstrated through listening, learning, and one's conduct over time. It's been 15 years. I know. Well, I guess in his statement, he was kind of like a class act. Yeah, of course.

Doing like generic UN speak because he had to. but like, this must stop. It's like, what did organizations like the ADL and the SPLC do? They like go, they're like Chinese can collectors who go picking through the trash for cans.

They like go around trying to uncover instances of like anti-Semitic hate crimes. And in doing so, they like create, well, I guess they're like,

if he had done that in America, he probably would not have been like convicted of hate speech, but in France, you know. they really get you for that kind of thing. Yeah. Why?

That, yeah, I don't know. Didn't they fight the Nazi? Why do they? I get in Germany, why they're like, you know. Yeah, I don't know.

You go to jail if you say anything. This is one of those things I don't love about Europeans. Because they love their little hate speech laws. And they'd be giving like random dads 18 months for like making a Islamophobic Facebook post about they do. daughter's rapist or whatever. They love to do that. Well, now they're combating Islamophobia, but it's

just any kind, I guess. It's so totalitarian. I know. They should give the next MacGell to like Alexander Wang or someone. No. Like I don't even know what like a living designer really who. Pro ball groom. Jason Wu.

Loro. Philip Lynn. Well, that would be nice. I would love to see people like walking the red carpet draped in like blankets of cashmere. Brandy could be good. Brandy would be fun. Yeah, that would be fun. Free bleed into some web fans.

At least, you know, now we won't have fomo if we don't get invited. We know we're not missing much. The eighth year in a row. We're not getting invited to the MacGala. We don't know. Maybe this year's the year. I mean, at some point, they're going to get so desperate. Once I get rich off cryptocurrencies, see, I'm going to buy, I'm going to buy my way in that Vagala.

Once these meme coins make me a millionaire. You can go to war with a Jewish day. owners and still lose because they still have way more money than you'll ever have. I just can't be the audacity to like invoke the Jewish league is. It's like big week kind of for Norm MacDonald joke. Yeah. Which was his like bit about Marlon Brando apologizing to the Jewish leaders and then letting him work again.

Yeah. Yeah. And then when he does his bit about like, um, he's worried that there's, if there's like an Islamic terrorist attack that the peaceful Muslims may be affected. Yeah. but yeah everybody knows that they hold the purse string so that they could and I'm surprised they rather do it in the first like I it's it yeah well I think they were out to lunch they were probably literally out to lunch and they happened right under their noses

you know yeah their noses yeah and then they were like look it's fine it's okay I mean it's it's so stupid at them I'm not gonna you know I mean it's just so stupid and frustrating because you know I I like the Jews and I wish them the best and I just wish they wouldn't play into the stereotype so bad. It would have been really cool of them. Yeah. Actually. Magnanimous.

People would. Yes. It would have been a mitzvah. Yeah. And it would have gone a long way to rehabilitate their reputation with the rest of the country and the world who they don't respect because they see the rest of us as goy cattle. But there's this thing in Judaism with forgiveness. Yeah.

Like I remember there's like one of his like benefactor financier guys. says that he can't forgive him because he'd never come to him personally and apologize. And by like rabbinical law, you don't have to forgive someone unless, so until he apologizes to every Jewish person. Until they, like, show up and kiss the ring. Yeah.

Then they can forgive you. But otherwise they're not like, they're not like, you know, Christians are called to, you know, live their life. They sound borderline. They sound borderline. I mean. Like seemingly reasonable and rational and good with money.

Hypocondriacs. But, like hysterical and hypocondriacal and like not so secretly and like besieged by primitive fantasies of resentment and revenge it's like crazy who wants to live like that and like you can't tell them anything because they like simply don't accept it and any criticism that you might offer is dismissed out of hand as anti-semitic that's the worst part which then leads you to develop all sorts of truly into it.

I mean, it's okay. I can't, you know. I mean, I really, it's sad. I really love the Jews. You know, they're so warm and intimate. They have those beautiful hazel or green eyes. Sometimes, yeah. Got amazing hair.

I mean, I love the Jew. You know, you know, I'm philosemitic. Would he bans her? Always have been. I don't want to have like a adversarial relationship. with them.

No, but if they could just give us a little grace, the boys, it'd be good for their PR. I know. This is more a bad PR. And I thought they were like masters of media. Controling the media, yeah. But like they've fumbled so much.

And invoking the summer of anti-Semitic violence, like, what? Wait, how, I feel like every summer is a summer of anti-Semitic. Semitic violence for the last few years. Some psycho goes to some synagogue or something. Sure. But like we're all, you know, it's not safe out there.

The Matt Gallup theme should just be October 7th. Then everybody gets what they want. And it could be some fun, like, music festival looks. So true. You can be, like, Burning Man-esque. Anyway. Yeah. We've done.

We did a good show. Yeah, I wonder what they're going to do and how they're going to salvage the theme. I'm not getting my hopes up. Whatever. Is Mark Jacobs Jewish? Yeah, girl. Did he already have a Met Gala? Not sure.

Probably give it to him. They could. We should watch the Mark Jacobs Sophia Coppola doc, maybe actually. It's about him. Yeah. Directed by her. Yeah, I'm down. Because they're friends, you know.

Yeah. Red Scare podcast. I know. All right. Well, see you in hell.