Red Scare - The Diary of Sam Frank w/ Sam Frank

Episode Date: May 21, 2022

We're back. We're back. We're back. We have another guest. This is writer, Sam Frank, who's here to talk to us about Urban, because you're also on the board of the foundation. You're on the board of the foundation of Urban. Yes. And you're a galaxy owner. Yeah, I bought a galaxy and put myself in men's debt to the IRS in 2018, which I just finally paid off.

How much did your galaxy cost? I mean, not as much as I took the IRS. I messed myself up. Can you tell us the amounts? Yeah, I put like 500K into an urban galaxy in 2018. Have a mill? Have a mill. And you owed more than that to the IRS?

Yeah, I just wrote them a check for like 1.5 million dollars, which they'd been pursuing me. That must have hurt. Previously, New York State had suspended my driver's license, but I have that back. I think my passport's coming back soon, too. You're a felon. No.

No, I'm in the clear. You're good. So, wow. Wait, that's exciting that they let you get off that easy. What's a galaxy? Well, why the F did you spend $500,000 on an urban galaxy in 2018? The only true wealth is in land and urban is digital land. So, you're a digital slumlord.

He's a digital normal lord. Yeah, a lord. And he's going to have digital serfs who are going to be making him money. Yes. Interesting. No. I mean, yes, no. I'm not doing it for the money.

I'm doing it because... Is it Machiavellian? Yeah. You know, it's really funny. Like, there's this whole thing about whether urban is feudal or whether like the current internet is feudal. Feudal, not feudal tile. Yeah, feudal.

Like feudalism. It's honestly funny. And, you know, clearly the current internet, like we're all serfs on, you know, the farms of Zuckerberg and Bezos. I mean, you know, like all these kind of, not Amazon so much in other ways, true, but like, you know, all these companies that are just like middlemaning our data and then like putting in our conversations and surveilling us and deleting our accounts. And, you know, or you have, you know, five years of Twitter history and then suddenly

one day it's gone and you're like, this fucking sucks. You know, in the same way that like... Yeah, but it doesn't matter that much. Yeah. I realized I couldn't access my archive after I got banned and I was temporarily shedding some tears over my like racist tweets. But then I was like, I don't really give a shit. Instagram, delete my Twitter, who cares?

Okay. My first question to you is, given the crypto crash, should I invest in more Ethereum? I can't give investment advice. That would be illegal. Why not? I'm not a registered investment. Sure. Yeah.

I don't know. I mean, I haven't bought more since... I bought some more Miladies since the crash. Okay. We're going to need to talk about Miladies. Miladies. So what is a Miladie? I know it's the little girl with the big eyes, but it's an NFT that's like urban currency.

It's not urban currency, but they're friends. They're friends of urban. I mean, it's like, it's like if you want to imagine the current urban user, it's a Miladie. Okay. Here's a spicy follow up question. Are Miladies normalizing pedophilia because they look like cute little children? It's desensitizing people to that kind of imagery. Oh, that's interesting.

I hadn't thought about that. It's... Given what we know about... There is something evil about them, which is also what's appealing. Well, there's something evil about urban. You can say that, but I disagree. A bunch of guys who conquer galaxies and make NFTs in the shape of girlfriends that they wish they had. All I know is that Miladies are the one NFTs that are owned by women.

As far as I can tell, unless everyone in the internet is lying, but it seems like... Like biological women or... I think biological women. I think attracted biological women to Miladies. There are probably some all-genders in Miladies. Sure. How many people do you think own a Miladie? I think you can look.

It's like there are 10,000 of them. I bet there are like 2,500 people who own a Miladie, something like this. How do you create a Miladie? You can go and buy it now on like OpenSea or on these different... They're highly customizable. Much like Blythe dolls in the 70s. People who competed about this did not get a lot of attention, obviously, because I'm talking demographically about two very separate things. Blythe dolls in the 70s were these dolls with really big eyes that were customizable that people in Japan were crazy for.

They were only around for a year, but they became this highly speculated value item that was really tapping into something that people liked about. You also saw this on Web 1 or whatever you want to call it. I was growing up on the internet, those little avatar girls that you could put different little outfits on. I was obsessed with that kind of shit. That kind of thing, I think, is timeless, really. Yeah. I think they have some... But they are NFTs because someone cracked out heroes.

They were like, do you want a Miladie? I can get you one. I was like, can you just send me some JPEGs of her? I don't really want to own it. You have enough of those horny anime dolls. Exactly. I got the real thing. I'd rather own a Blithe doll, honestly.

The nice thing about Miladies is if you don't want to buy one, you can steal one. They're very in favor of that. Half the hacks that have happened in crypto in the past four months, the hacker owns a Miladie. There's something very sinister about them beneath this cute surface, which is what makes them actually kind of decent art. Yeah, it's just like if this is like a simulation of real life, it really kind of opens your eyes to what people really want, which is not pleasant. The patriarchy is real, but only real in the minds of men who use urban. People also want Bored Apes, which are these disgusting... You've seen these things around me.

Bored Apes, yeah. Well, that's the thing about what bothers me about... You know, the art world sort of entering into the NFT space is the vast majority of things that occur are unholy and incredibly ugly. And just like images that are not edifying at all for the soul to look upon. They're completely fake. They're totally gay. They have speculative value. They're like, to me, actually, I say this a lot, but I really think they're one of the most evil things.

Does the Catholic Church still sell indulgences? They should sell them as NFTs if they don't. Honestly, they should. That's like the direction they're going. I will say that there's one or two urban galaxy owners or Buddhist monks or former monks. There's also this woman who got a galaxy from Curtis when she was training to be a nun in an Orthodox monastery. That's not very monk-like, is to have an urban galaxy. But is that like a loophole for people who can't own anything in the worldly life to own stuff?

God, if you take a vow of poverty, it doesn't mean you get to have an urban galaxy. Yeah, it does. No, it doesn't. It doesn't at all. That's not what poverty means. It's the thought that counts, right? It's the thought that counts. It's not about this earthly realm.

My next question is, I heard you call us constipated on Justin Murphy's podcast. Can you explain? You said we were constipated. What does that mean? I'm talking, it's a generational thing. I did call you constipated. I called myself incredibly constipated. Excuse me, I'm actually very regular.

I'm highly. I don't have a gut biome problem at all. Yeah, no, it was, I think about, I mean, I grew up in a very lefty environment and it took me a long time to get over. And I wouldn't, when I call myself right wing, I don't think so. I would just like say I'm not, I wouldn't like, I'm not pretend saying like I'm on the left anymore. And like getting over that hump took me years and years and years. And then I'm like, oh yeah. You were like an occupier.

You were an occupier. Yeah. Sort of. I mean, I was like not, I didn't mean to be like I was never an activist, but I walked down and like I ended up arrested on the Brooklyn Bridge like that day. And I was like, oh, okay, fuck the cops. And then I was like, I guess maybe this is our chance to change the world. And then that kind of burned out after two months. But we're the 99% etc. Yeah.

But what does that have to do with being constipated? It's an interesting, very Freudian use of. He was saying, he was saying that we fell off and that he fell off because we're like generationally. Well, just clean, clean, clean to Bernie for like longer than, than, you know, and at this point you're like, oh yeah, like all this stuff is just. And I was never, I've never been a leftist. I've never claimed to be a leftist. I was a Bernie cry. Because I, but I was like 20, I was, you know, the first time Bernie ran, I was like 23.

And I was really, you know, I was so poor and I was like, God, I just want this guy who like kind of reminds me of my grandpa. Maybe all this free stuff and like, oh, the social well, if there was like a robust social welfare, so then I could be like a great artist, you know. And so I like really loved Bernie, like a lot about Bernie. And then I was so disillusioned when the DNC stole the election from him and the primaries and then a lot of the money, which I had very little. I had so little money and I was donating like $40 to the Bernie Sanders campaign, which was like a lot of money for me at the time. And so yes, I felt really betrayed. And I would definitely wouldn't identify as right wing, but I definitely would no longer identify as a leftist. So I remember somebody on the sub went into some database where you could look at donations to Bernie and they're like, well, Dasha's name is on it, but Anna's isn't.

And I was like, that's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm an idiot. No, no, no, it's normal. But I think a lot of people like who were former leftists got like very disillusioned with it and they feel more ashamed and guilty than they ought to. So they are doing this like kind of public flagellation. I just wanted, yeah, I just wanted somebody to believe and I'll be up front about that. Like I just, you know, it spoke to me.

It was something I could get behind. Urban doesn't quite do. No, but Sam, are you kind of what like annoys me is like, it's like, OK, so the squad is now like spending $40 billion in Ukraine war. And it's like, and then there's like the leftist code like next time I'll elect some like really anti-war candidate. You're like, no, this is the game you're playing with yourselves like over and over again. It's never going to work just like on up to the fact that like Trump was the anti-war candidate, you know, like, right? And I like posted on Facebook of all places. I never posted on Facebook and like the amount of anger.

I was just I was just doing it just to be like, yeah, just shoving it like this is during the election. But I don't know. That's the kind of thing that annoys me about about like clinging on to some idea of what the left is and what it stands for when like time after time, they keep selling themselves out. And you should just like how many times the dog have to bite you, you know? But you're kind of like system really just doesn't make any sense. Well, no, I mean, it does to the degree like you had a good line when you were describing. I think in that article, the Harper's article that you sent us, you had a good line about how let me look this up in a little tips already. Oh, that that, you know, when you were describing like Curtis Yarbon thought that democracy denies and obfuscates power like two party system, right?

It's like a symbolic thing. But you I kind of detect that you're kind of a seeker a little bit, but a seeker like a seeker like you seek kind of meaning and connection and belonging. But your critical voice always intervenes. So you're doomed to like a tortured fate because you can't you can't go like full in. I mean, that's like your investigative impulse. Well, I admire like your attraction to the opposite of whatever is leftism, but your critical distance from it. You never quite, you know, fully praise or worship these figures that you were sort of like orbiting around when you were doing. Yeah, just like hearing people talk, people who like are saying like, I have no real feelings about Peter Tillman or the other.

But he's like a mildly interesting, mildly intellectually independent guy who can has written a few pretty good things. And among like the billionaire class, which is like the most, you know, bankrupt, like morally, you know, he at least has a little bit of his own thought, you know. And so like people like that, like I'm interested in for a while. I'm not like, you know, I am not like a teal acolyte, you know, like and the projection, you know, like there's there's so many guys like not at all. We're not at all. We're not at all. At all. At all.

I think I think I think they're like sexually attracted to him and they won't admit it like and so they're writing all these articles. Who's sexually attracted to Peter Tillman? All the writers who are going around being like, Oh, is teal in this other conspiracy? I think like they're like, I don't think they're sexually attracted like men or women. I mean, it's mostly men writing. You think like Joe Bernstein and James Pogue are sexually attracted? No, I won't make any comment about others. But I think there's a weird sexual dynamic.

It's like, Oh, he's this right wing gay, Catholic, libertarian, Gerardian, like, what's up with that? Maybe he'll maybe he'll. Fuck me if I, you know, like, like show up and like just take advantage of me. You know, it's that desire. I mean, not like literally, but like speaking for yourself. Now, I think I think during the harvest article, like I felt that kind of pull and I wouldn't have like put in those terms then. Then you just have to get over it and just be like, Oh, yeah, there's not a fucking conspiracy. Like, like the Arvin is not the house philosopher Peter teal.

He's just like a guy that you say a party sometimes and we'll talk to her often like that was annoying. Well, the critique of Peter teal, it seems from the supposed left, right, is that he is like fascistic kind of in character. So what you're describing is really like, I think the libidinal appeal of a character who has fascistic aesthetics or like characteristics that people are drawn to because obviously that's why people are drawn to fascism because they want to be, you know, like punished by daddy. They want like, yeah, they want to like daddy's boot. And a lot of people, yeah, of course, they had to kind of like build him up as this like bad orange man. Yeah, he's going to hold them down. Yeah.

But I think you also made a good point in that article or no, it was in the Justin Murphy podcast. You said that the amount of projection and misunderstanding that the left has over what the right is is like insane. And what's interesting now with this like new and revived like Peter teal NRX discourse coming from like Bernstein and Siegel and Pogue is again, they I feel like people reiterate this myth that he's some sort of fascist when really he's merely a liberal. He's kind of just like a classical liberal as a logo, annoyingly pointed out to me, twitter.com. Thanks, local. Yeah, I also it's just like the other part of the projection thing is is the amount. I just remember when I was on the left, the amount of mental cycles, illness, mental illness, I used to think about politics all the time and inject politics into everything and like,

I just find that to the extent I'm made any political move, it's like a relaxation where I think about politics a lot less like I can go. But isn't that just like a folly of youth, which is why young people are so drawn to leftism because I think like injecting politics into everything is like similar to doing talk therapy. You get to like introduce like a verbal wedge between you and your emotions. It's like a proxy battle, which is why urban is perfect. Yeah, I guess it does take people's brain cycles. That's why I'm not a programmer because I think it would just destroy me. Well, I heard the tech snow good. I heard it's not perfect.

The tech is perfect. That's the thing. It's perfect. Wait, you told you that. Matthew. Oh, but see, it's funny because he says no one really knows about it because they're not coders. And because he's a coder, he actually knows. Urban has perfect technology.

That's that's that's all I know. But I've been told this by people who know, so you I'm taking on faith as an article. I don't know. Urban is perfect technology. Well, she's been told one thing by one guy who knows and you've been told another guy who knows. But by a guy who's been scared off because he's too weak, too weak to penetrate to the beautiful core of whatever it is. What do you mean? So like the technical premise behind urban is essentially like our compute.

It's a new computer. It's not like a it is a social network, but that's not what it is. It's a new kind of computer. And essentially, like we have, let's say, four decades of Unix, which is like the spaghetti crap in the middle of our our apples and PCs. And then we have TCP IP, which is like the networking protocol behind the internet. And they don't play well together and it's a mess. And that's why the internet and our computing environment life just sucks so much.

And so the thing that Curtis decided to do 20 years ago was like, what if you started from scratch and you like. Built something was built to fucking last and was like the computing and the networking in one very small, very like diamond perfect protocol, which might take a little bit of like getting over the hump to learn. But once you learn it, it's like deeply simple and you can repair it like you can repair an old truck or something. This is why this is why I know. This is why I get nothing. You're saying you're like you're talking gibberish. Do you understand?

No, no, no. It's on a cloud. It's a computer on a cloud. That's what someone else said to me. Also, why are they paying so many people to write like speculative? I ran into my next boyfriend of mine the other night and I was like talking about like urban. They're like, are you going to urban week? I was like, what is urban?

And my expert was like, oh, I work for urban. I write speculative fiction about Adam Friedland works for urban. I won't. I'm writing speculative fiction. I'm writing speculative fiction about like the future of like computing technology or something. And I was like, that's your job. Like I was like, why are they paying you to do that? And then I was like, what?

It's not even a coding job. And what is urban week and why are they paying for this? Well, no, but this is why I get so confused and upset when people write think pieces and launch Twitter discourses about how like Curtis Yorivan is a fascist because he's just like an autistic guy with a heart of gold. Who wants to create like some speculative fantasy world that better reflects his like sense of himself than the real world. No, exactly. And he's no longer involved with the rip because it's reached the stage where Because he wanted it to be Lords and Ladies and they made it galaxies and planets. That's what I heard.

There are dukes. It was dukedoms. That's cool. He bring that back. I would join urban if it was more like, you're the princess. For a while. But I don't want to pay a dime. The galaxies are all named after like different dictators.

These right wing men will give us some free planets. A galaxy. Yeah. Maybe you have to suck some virtual dick to get a galaxy. But we're well on our way. We could have up. Should we wish? Yeah.

Okay. Like one planet to split among. I would. It's like the size of a Brandy Melville dressing room. I would. Yeah. But yeah. Now, I mean, Curtis is that Autist and like that's why he had to leave her a bit.

Why? Because it actually now has to meet people where they're living versus be. We meet people where they're living. You know, like, like you have an Autistic perfectly designed system and at some point, whether it's, you know, in politics or in tech and at some point it needs like real people need to live in it, you know, and then needs to change and grow or else it's just a perfect idea in the mind of an Autist. And so like Curtis brought it to a stage where it was ready to, you know, start walking

in its own and he left. Yeah. Okay. Like some years ago. Well, so question. So the planets are like message boards or like a planet is like a is like a user identity. So it's like your email address and Twitter handle and IP address all rolled into one and you take it with you everywhere on the network.

But what if you have multiple plans and you're posting, but primarily you're using it to post on message board or to have chat. Right now if you go in orbit that it's like chat rooms. It's like it's. So what in, because the thing about me is I don't have a lot of time to go in chat rooms. So like, what is orbit going to offer me down the line? Well, I'd say more like, you know, one, one war crime you guys have committed is turning all your fans into Redditors.

I like Reddit. Me too. I will. I'm standing by Reddit. It appeals to me. I don't want, I don't think it's better than Reddit at all. I don't know what's on it, but I'm really happy with it. I mean, what does it even look like?

I don't know. It probably looks like Reddit, but worse. It's very, it's very like simple interface. It's very basic right now. I mean, there's some people. You can't use it on your phone. I have it on my phone right now. Okay.

If you help me get it on my phone, I'll use it, but I can't go on the computer. Wait, Dasha, you know who he reminds me of that actor Sam Elliott from the Coen brother films. Think about it. Another Sam. Interesting. That's interesting. Yeah.

Totally. I mean, I've seen him. I knew that name. He was the cowboy in the bar in Big Lebowski. Oh, okay. That guy. Yeah. I just watched that on a plane.

Interesting. Well, thank you. Maybe. Roadhouse. Roadhouse. I haven't seen that. Oh, he was in a Star is Born. That makes sense.

Yeah, totally. Oh, he played like his brother or something. Bradley Cooper's brother. Yeah. Or like cousin. He's been in tons of westerns. Well, he's dead now. So no, no galaxy for him.

No, sorry. He's up in that big galaxy in the sky. And the other galaxy. Yeah. Yeah. I just, uh, yeah, I mean, I don't want to go on the computer that much, you know, like so is orbit. So that's my real.

It's kind of meant to actually, I mean, because if it ever catches on. No, they, if he kind of catches on, they're like, they're, people won't be making money off ads. There's like, won't be incentives to keep you on your computer much longer. So you feel sick, you know, like the way that Twitter, I don't know. What's the purpose of orbit outside of like the functional purpose outside of being like a fun social network. The purpose of orbit is to give everyone their own, their own computer.

That's like simple. Like, like they can repair, like they could repair a truck, like that, that basic level of literacy and understanding of your own devices, like home repairs, truck repairs, computer repairs. Like that should be like the birthright of, of, you know, like every like, you know, adult, you know, and it, it, it obviously is not right now. Like, but, you know, the computing stack needed to be way simplified to make that possible just for, you know, like humane use of technology, durable, like it should be able to last a hundred

years. So if you, if you, like your grandmother dies and leaves you some old word docs and you can't open them your computer, that's like, that's where we're at. It's horrible. But where, okay. And where, so instead of the computer, they're going to be on the cloud and they people need the cloud is forever. No, um, they're on your orbit, which you can host on the cloud.

That's not on the cloud. I mean, it's, it's. Where's the orbit? The orbit is sometimes in the cloud. You can, you can transfer it around. You can download it and put on your memory stick. You can like, put it in your pocket for a hundred years. I like the metaverse.

It's like a different kind of metaverse instead of there's like gay augmented Mark Zuckerberg ass reality. It's like autistic, Munch's mold bug, augmented reality. Maybe. Uh. Wait, you said when you bought a galaxy, you said it was the largest position I had ever been in. And I felt like that was like a really beautiful description of leftism in a way.

It does feel like a leftist platform because it's like playing at power in a simulation, but you never have to have the commitment or responsibility to wield power in real life. You know, I've had a very, you know, like, you know, fictional relationship to money since making a lot of in 2017 and crypto and that's like a crypto thing and like my own issues like never thinking I wanted money or could make money until, you know, a few years before that, you know, as going up as a leftist, you, you know, thought he hated money and hated. So yeah, that's part of it's all about money.

No, no. Well, but what is the urban currency? Malades? No, I mean, it's planets and stars and galaxies are the kind of units of address. The land. Yeah. And what's a star then? A star can issue 65,000 planets.

So it's worth 65,000 planets. It's like the networking layer for the planets, but it's also just like it's a unit of land. It's like a big chunk of land. A star is 65,000 times bigger than us. Yeah, I understand. I understand. But the thing is, everyone should own their own planet, own their own thing, like, and create their own wealth.

I mean, it's like, is there anything for actresses to do on her bit? You can chat. Is there anything I can do on her? Can you show your tits on her bit? You can't even show your tits on her bit. We're working on photo hosting. Oh, my God. This is why there's no, this is why they have a woman problem, because no woman wants to

go and urban when there's no opportunity to like post a selfie. No, I mean, people are building like urban Patreon, urban sub-stack. I mean, like these things that are, there, there, a lot of stuff is getting built right now. And I just have to believe me because right now we have a chat app, but, um, really it's it's all happening right now. And it's all happening right now parties to show people that Ethereum is bad. Ethereum is a mess.

Ethereum is a mess. It's not necessarily bad. It's just, uh... It's all a mess, man. It's all a mess. It's all speculative. I mean, these Ponzi's are totally insane. And, uh, the only thing I think like are solid at all are like, urban Bitcoin, maybe Ethereum.

I'm undecided about Ethereum and like all the rest is trash. It's gonna wash up. Why? What's the difference really between those and that that they've been around longer? Yeah, what is the big difference between Bitcoin and Ethereum? That's a good question. I mean, they're pretty similar except Ethereum is more programmable so you can like build other stuff on top of Ethereum.

So it's more like a decentralized computer. What is a computer? What is a computer? What is a network? That's one of my questions, but we can come back to that. Mike, another question I have is what are DAOs? I know they stand for distributed autonomous organizations. It reminded me a little bit of Taz, temporary autonomous zone, which was also connected

to pedophiles. Yeah. Hotbed of pedophilia. Hotbed of pedophilia. Yeah. It's the King Bay, the famous pedophile of the King Bay, right? Exactly. So are the DAOs, you know, using, there's some pedophilic influence there.

Anyone who wants to be too autonomous, pedophile. And wait, why are so many trad cats drawn to orbit and neo-reaction? Well, I think I may be right. I think maybe I'm just like paraphrasing or quoting. Let's call them false traditional. Justin Murphy's orbit. Yeah. Like there is, there is like a truth-seeking quality about, about orbit.

Like what is the truth of computing and the truth of how we should network together that is actually quite similar to a religious impulse. Curtis of course is a famous internet atheist, so like he didn't, he didn't gather. That's why he had to leave also. Look, the religious people kicked him out. I mean, not necessarily, not, not in fact. No, I understand that there's a spiritual dimension to it, but fundamentally, I think it is unholy.

You know, computers are demonic, like potentially, but like this is the only way to get the demons out of computers. Maybe. I don't agree. I don't agree at all. This is what I don't understand when people talk about like decentralized, autonomous, pedophilic network, and they're like, well, we're building something. This is different than every other permutation of human-made stuff that's ever existed in

the world. Like, no, it's, it's kind of a term to the way humans are related until, until the 20th century. Until? Until the 20th century. Until, till, till. Yeah. Just, just people like talking directly to each other, forming like temporary associations

in their villages and towns, you know, like, oh, I'm in the CSA. To kill the gay guy. Just kidding. To communicate the, no, to excommunicate the, the homosexuals from their village. Well, the other till is it. It's also just like a return to subculture. I mean, like, you know, that's been flattened out in the past, you know, decade, but it's like, oh yeah, I'm in the secret club with like, like 20 or 100 of my friends, you know,

and I mean, that was the internet when I was growing. It's like, you stumble across this place where you're like, oh man, these people are so cool. I know them by name. And then it inevitably would fall apart like two months later. Well, it's more of a throwback. Yeah. I don't, I don't know what web two is, but web one, I don't know my early experiences of the internet was I was posting a lot of message boards.

I was going on chat rooms. I was like, yeah, but I had a live journal, I had like, you know, but I was a teenager. Yeah. And I like, now I just, I can't imagine taking the time to go in a chat room. I know. Can you imagine being 60 years old and going in a chat room? I feel like that's gonna be happening. I'm so busy.

I'm honestly so busy. Yeah. I mean, you shouldn't be spending all your time on Irvit or on any computer. And I, But what are these guys' lives outside of Irvit that they go on Irvit so much? I mean, you know, like me and my friend Anthony started Irmetica, the, you know, Irvit esoteric. And you know, we'll go there to like record like some weird meditation we're trying that day and, you know, like talk about it with our friends and say like, oh, check out this

book. Yeah, it's like based on your interest. Yeah. So it's a lot of like, you know, you could have like your fishing chat. It's like, it's just that kind of like, But isn't that just called having friends? Like I feel like friends at a distance though. I know.

But that's why a real friendship is more meaningful. Yeah. But you have a different interest. But also more inconvenient and unpleasant, right? And everybody wants to have the perks of friendship at a distance minus the downsides, which is like sometimes you have to like suffer your friend or be snubbed by your friend, whatever. Yeah. I mean, I think like one of the big problems that they're going to solve or going to die

is like how to like the people who have these like affinities that they've made through the internet, like, like, oh, I you're across the country, across the world and like, we are into the same stuff. Can they can like regather in some like new physical place and start a new country or start a new town, start a new community, intentional community. I think a lot of those people are going to have the skills necessary to start a new community. That's what you need.

You need to build it. That's why he moved to Utah. Yeah. Well, they're all on orbit all the time. So they don't know about. No, they, they, they're like building fires and changing tires on her when it really happens to them. That's what it was for.

Yeah. It's, it's a, I mean, it's just like, you know, the genre of like YouTube, like fix it videos. You know, like they're amazing. And those should be on orbit too. They will be soon. But you know, what I really like that you said, I don't remember where now is that it, that there's no individualism now, that individualism has been destroyed, which is kind of like,

it goes against everything we hear all the time, which is that our society suffers from too much individualism and too much atomization, but that actually no one's an individual. I'm so boring and conformist, it's insane and, or, or they'll be individual secretly in person, but you know, in public, they're looking over their shoulders all the time and, and squelching their, their, their like most uncomfortable opinions. Being an individuals when you say the N word in private, pretend it's not in your vocabulary in public. No, but I mean, like, like, I mean, I think one of like the, the great things the show

has done among, you know, a few other places is like, and, you know, Pogue's article did something similar to a certain way of like, it's like, Oh, there are these conversations people are having behind closed doors, we can like, begin to have them in public and like, allow people to say, Oh yeah, I, there's some things I can talk about that I was thought I would be like, canceled or destroyed for talking about, I'm so scared, you know, are you a friend of Pogue, you know, friendly, I mean, I'm, I'm in that piece is the anonymous Utah guy. Oh, yeah.

Welcome to the friends of Christian Lorenzen podcast, formerly known as Red Scare. We have just been having friends. We just like interview his friends, but never him Christian got any more wrecks for the time. And he gets like, he grows progressively resentful and then self-immolates in front of my address, which I will not dox. So this time, so I still don't really understand the DAO's. Oh, dows, dows, dows, Peter Dow, whatever happened to that guy.

Anyway, go on. Yeah. So it's, it's kind of going back to what is like a digital village and it's, it's just a stupid name for people anywhere in the world to maybe pool some money and do something with it, you know, so it's like a business. It's an online business. It's not run through a company, but it's run through smart contracts and crypto or just high level of trust where you're like, Oh yeah, you're in and okay, I have a question

about that. I don't understand anything you're saying. Wait, I think I get it. I had, I had a moment and like the Edison bulb went off in my head between like waves of drunkenness because you said this, like people hypothetically could pool their money so that they could pay out health insurance or life insurance or something like that, right? Or damages, whatever.

Okay. I get that. But, but in terms of like smart contracts, like is there any, like there, there has to be some way, some loophole through which they too can be corrupted by human power, right? Those are a total mess, right? Like those mostly right now exist to speculate on crypto. It's like, it's like, Oh, I'm in India.

Oh, I'm in, you know, Canada, which is all work and another question I have is if you had like this kind of like mutually contractual like pool of people who are like working toward it, some goal or whatever, what happens if certain people are excluded? Like, what if I can't get on her, but then you'll start your endow with some other people. Where? How, but wouldn't that lead to some warfare or something? It's how do I start a small, what do I, it's like, if you want to start an investment club with 10 of your friends, like this 11th person can start an investment club with 10

of her friends. It doesn't, it doesn't matter. Like if all of us like you, me, Leia and Emily threw down some money so that if one of us got hit by a bus while walking and texting, the money would automatically contribute to like totally their like medical bills or something. I mean, it's a good idea in theory. Yeah. And then, you know, the strength or weakness with crypto is that you could set up a contract

so it would automatically take it out of your bank account versus being like, oh, you have to go and still write that check and maybe you'd, you'd well send it or something. So like that could be good. Well, who's still writing checks besides me and my Chinese slumlords? Me, I mean, me to my Chinese slumlord. In fact, I, every time I do it, I'm like, no one else is writing a check. I just, I just dropped off my rent. My landlord texted me, you'll pay rent.

And I went around the corner and dropped it into like a literal, a literal Oliver twist. Like, yeah. I was like, slit. Yep. Same brick. I do the same thing. And I pulled my hand out. It was covered in soot.

I felt like Cara Delevingne in that peg of patriarchy boostie. It was like, when am I like the artful Dodger? This is like 19th century Britain. Here's another question. What are Bay Area rationalists? That's something you kept saying, Justin Murphy. And I don't know what that is. Yeah.

I mean, that was so like a million years ago now. Like I wrote this article for Harpers where I was first, I was like, what is this talk about disruption Uber? And I went to like tech crunch just for up this horrible tech conference and you've gone to a lot of conferences. I went to a lot of conferences. I like, I respect that for you. I like that you're always willing to go.

I'm, I'm similar in that I loved like, like I'll go into a schematic mass or something. I'm like, Oh, some people are going to meet up somewhere. I'm like, great. Like I'll go. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, remember when you, when you started those, um, Epstein? Truth or meetups?

Yeah. And it was just like a bunch of like, uh, yeah, and like cute girls and like accordion skirts. So I could do something like that on her, but less, less vital, more flat. She can, she can, um, figure out a way to contract her own sex, murder an urban, but definitely you can definitely get into there's gonna be like a cannibalism plan. There's an urban protocol. Yeah.

So there's gonna be tons of demonic activity up on there, obviously. And because it is fundamentally like a, there isn't a vitality there. It's not. Well, I think like hugely vital. The way that you, not the way, not the way something like theater is vital. Do you understand? Like actual vitality, like actual catharsis, actual like, I don't know, theater, like experience something.

One nice thing about urban is like, like, like people on it who've made money like want to start. But it's not just about money. But I know they want, they want to actually like build, like they want all culture to be funded by Peter Teal. No, by, by, by people who've made their money in urban like that. That's why they want to make money to spend it on. I mean, like the only thing, the reason I want to make money is to actually fucking have

decent culture again. Most people want to make money to hoard it and you know it. I, I, and power corrupts. Wait, and that's, wait, hold on, you want to, Berman, you would know that. What was his name? Wait, you want to make money to revive the culture? I mean, but what, what would be, what would be like the process through which that would occur?

I mean, I'm not thinking out like, see your galaxy is like mega lucrative or whatever. Oh, it's not mega lucrative. It's not making me any money. You got to get your galaxy. We know that's why we're throwing parties in New York so that more people know about what we're doing. You're going to try to give them to your join your and realize that that urban throws the best parties in New York.

If that's possible, then, then it proves out that we were actually like that, that, that we have, we have, we have, we have vital energy and the rest of the culture does not because we actually got invited to a right wing party in New York recently that I can't go to because I will be in France. But I was wondering if that was related to her a bit, just like a magazine called return the sky. Yeah, that's like the editor Rob used to work for used to work for a bit. Okay.

So does that count as an urban party? It's it's urban adjacent. I mean, he I'm just trying to figure out if I should have FOMO or not, they're probably not definitely not. I got invited to an urban party by no agency for like their hat collection release or something. Okay, sure, you've got me. But are they going to be the best parties in New York? I mean, that's very ambitious.

I think you're kind of setting yourself a little bit further. I might be. And with the times being as nihilistic as they are, I think it's a little reckless to, you know, to kind of be stoking the flames on this like, well, I also think like party culture. The best parties are always the worst parties because they're, they're, they're usually people's idea of what a good party is and it's just like thumping techno music and nobody can speak to each other. Well, the best party and smoking cigarettes outside to me, the best party, which is something

we, I feel like don't even get to experience that much anymore very rarely is like when you go to like the feeling I used to have when I was younger before I was a micro celebrity when I could go to a party and truly have this like anonymous, cool, like weird time, like that Louis Vuitton party we went to years ago at PS1. Like that was fun because like no one really knew who we were. Like people weren't like coming up to us. We were just like, look, I'm like, oh my God, it's Mark Ronson. Like we were just having fun.

Yeah, I remember that. So this is before Mark Ronson was a red scare listener exactly how thing, you know, like we don't get to really do stuff like that anymore. And so I think that doesn't exist. And as you get older, you just, the best parties are literally going to your friend's house and drinking wine dinner. Exactly. And there's like six people there.

But yeah, I get that everybody's trying to market itself to like a youth culture here in New York. I mean, it's just more like the people who turn out are very weird and very smart and interesting and like actually like all over the map, like they are individuals in a way. Yeah. I agree with that. Like all of the people that I've met through various like right-wing functions have been far more interesting than the people that I've met through various left-wing functions.

But like, I guess my word of advice as a whammon is that right-wingers have a tendency to be even bigger leftists than the leftists because they're so concerned with being cool and they're there for fundamentally uncool and like you have to not reactionary, you know, like the vibe is very much like, it's so glad we're doing this thing that's different from the other thing. It's like, you're like, we can just do a different thing and not really make reference to, you know. Yeah.

And when you actually meet these people in the flesh, it's like they are very admirably smart and interesting, but they're uncool, which is good and sometimes they're unhinged. That's true. Yeah. They are. They just, they, the problem is in shaman hand said this to me the other day, the right is under socialized and the left is over socialized and it's kind of going to be about who's able to hit that sweet spot in the middle.

And I think it will probably be the new, new, new, right, you know, that will move, move that way. The neoclin tonight. But it's going to take, yeah, like a cultivating of manners and of being, you know, which is why I like the Duke like system because it's like, it is about a kind of like virtue and like ennoblement. And I think if that part is missing from Arba, which it really seems like it is, if you guys have like demon worshiping planets or whatever you said, no, no, no, there's one, one murder

cult that is not, what, like, what is the murder cult? I think you should restore the monarchic monarchic model and then uphold of like a standard of like virtue, which is based in like ennoblement and dignity. There you go. Free idea for me to orbit. Well, nice thing about urban is that people get, it would be funny if it turned out that you were a bigger monarchist than Voldemort, I know, I know, I'm writing my treatise on me, the woman who I'm writing my treatise on virtue right now that's really gonna shake

up the, the, the, the urban community. It's very misogynistic. It often feels like all of these kind of monarchist fantasies come from the minds of, of men who felt less than when they were growing up, when they shouldn't have, because they were too concerned with being seen as cool by the wrong people. Well, look at like more, like, I honestly think part of the reason Morris, he hates the royals so much is because he knows deep down that he is a kind of like prince. You know, like he feels like he's an aristocracy of his own, so the fact that there is this

like totally arbitrary monarchy in the UK, like drives him crazy. Well, he's like an aristocracy of taste because he had like by far the best tastes and the best literature. You guys should establish some like taste sars at the, at the urban office. Like us. If you want to give us, if you really wanted like, you know, everyone else seems to be getting teal money except for me and I'm getting tons of heat for it. So we're working.

We're starting. We're sending. You know, we, we're, we're, we're doing our best to bribe people with good taste to do things that they want that they think are interesting without us, like micromanaging. Like that's, that's part of it. Just like, yeah. Can I commit suicide in orbit? Yeah, but maybe only like five people would know because they'd have to all join your

group first. There's not like, I could get more than five people to tune into my, just don't do it on Reddit. Yeah. We'll recreate the, I'll direct it. Well, well, recreate the Saddam Hussein, like hanging, no, no, no, the Gaddafi like sodomized. But what did we get?

Like a baton, a plunger, or that, um, I think he was a Romanian, the politician who drank the poison, though he didn't die, I guess, but that was a good one too. Wait, who drank the poison? I think it was like some Romanian politician, some. Was it Chewchaskin? Is that a Chewchaskin? I don't remember. I don't even know his name.

He and his wife were hanged. They were like dragged out into the square. This was semi recently. Oh. This was like a few years ago. He like drank poison on like the court floor or whatever. Anyway. Um, so no, no comments on the relation to Dowson Taz as kind of being, you know, the idea

of being autonomous, being connected to like, maybe a decadence that leads to pedophilia. I'd say that everyone I've been in orbit is strongly anti pedophile, anti groomer. Well, that's good. Are you sure about that? Isn't it decentralized and therefore you can't ever know the innermost thoughts of your fellow pedophile compatriots? There is no like central point of surveillance until like everything is happening in network. But it's also not.

Yeah, right. It's true. I don't know. We don't know how many people are using orbit. How do you know they're not flying on you? Hold on. Wait, I have a question. Wait, if you don't know two things, if, if you truly don't know, isn't there like some

inevitable point in time where it will be taken over by a Machiavellian oligarchy? And also like you, if you have a network like this and you don't know the demographics, isn't it somewhat useless? Like you have to collect, unfortunately, data. They're not selling out. I mean, people aren't going to make money selling ads in orbit. But don't you want to get a sense for what your demographics are? Love to have a sense of what our demographics are, but like 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 8, black people.

Yeah. All we can do is like throw meetups and see who shows up. I see. Okay. And how many, but yeah, I mean like, but the thing is how many people are up on right now or how many people are online on a bit right now? Do you even know? I mean, you know, it's, it's like, is there any way to know?

You know, 10,000 people, maybe, you know, like it's on that scale, like the Red Scare subreddit. Yeah. You're talking about the scale though. No, Dasha, we have. It's small and it's rapidly growing. Are you seeing it? I think we have way more.

The Red Scare subreddit maybe. I mean, I'm going to do a really disgusting and undignified thing and go on the Red Scare subreddit. Please, backtrack. While I say the Red Scare subreddit might be a better orbit kind of, there's a free exchange of ideas. There's lots of great posters like Bluebird. Well, I've also heard that there's like a, isn't there like a secret Red Scare reddit?

Like, like, like. There's like multiple. Yeah. There's been schisms. But that's okay. What's today's date? The 14th. I thought it was the 12th.

It was to retard. Okay. As of the 14th of May, 2022, there are 56,194 members on the Red Scare subreddit. How many are online now? 2033 are currently online. Hello. Shout out to the 2033 Red Scare subreddit users currently online. That's going to be our new pandering is the Red Scare subreddit because they all post

how they don't listen to the podcast and hate us. Yeah. We love you. Keep up the great work. Great posts this week. This week, we're going to go through our favorite posts on the Red Scare subreddit. What do you have against Reddit? It's because it's from bottom feeders.

Destroy your soul. I think. But why does an urban seems just as cancerous in a spirit? But isn't urban possibly more dangerous because it elevates your soul only to destroy it later? Maybe. And the echo chambers feel even smaller. That would be the price of success. No, I mean, I think just like anything, I mean, Reddit and Twitter, when you're, I

mean, I think there's like a used to like performing in public and, you know, like trying to get people to react to you, but like just the way it incentivizes, yeah, people to get Reddit gold by, you know, making some like bitchy comments. It's fun, but like it's not good for the soul. Wait, but you see, I don't even, I'm not even aware of that. I don't know what Reddit gold is. I just thought it was like a forum where you like post comments. It's when they really like your comment or whatever.

They get kind of. I understand you can get like upvoted and downvoted. But then if they, you can people can get a board and gold or, but I don't totally know about this either. But that is like an urban like thing where you have like some gold. Also, I don't know, I looked at the sub your subreddit and like you're like a week ago and someone was complaining like, Oh, you know, everyone's downvoting me for using, you know, saying word retard and like, I should just go to discord now.

And I was just like, everyone there seems just like unhappy and like pissed each other. And like, so it's that like that kind of feeling of like, I'm on this thing, but I hate being on here. And it says Rome on it. That's a fantastic shirt. I love, I love the she wolf. It's the, it's a Romulus with the baby's nursing. The eternal city.

Gorgeous. I know. The monument of antiquity, the church is the palace is the treasure of our wonders of Italy. I might have to copy you and copy the shirt. Amen, dude. I hope you can find it. I mean, I was shocked when I saw it.

It's one of my favorite shirts. Yeah. Brandy Melville, which I connected to a guy that you mentioned in your article named Bernard Mandela, I like wrote, I drew this, I was like, I see how these ideas are probably connected. And I looked that guy up and I was like, I don't know. So what are rationalists again? Oh, right. Right.

Right. Yeah. So they're not such a big thing anymore, but they were, as far as I could tell, like, through sociologically, they were a lot of like, explain it to me like I'm a baby. Yeah. It's. Wait, when is this Harper's article from like 2014? 2015?

15? Yeah. Which is crazy. That Blake Masters Tumblr, that was like, I was like, oh, it's crazy to like see his like platform unfold in that article and then now he's like a family. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

And I like how you said it. You're the only other person who said like Blake Masters, that name is too perfect because he and Peter Steele are the Randy and Uber Menhin, but like the reality versus the expectation. Yeah. Like they kind of like dark circles and like hollow cheeks. Anyway, go ahead. I came across the Tumblr of Blake Masters, who was then a Stanford law student and tech entrepreneur in training.

His motto, your mind is software program it. Your body is a shell. Change it. Death is a disease. Curit. Extinction is approaching. Fight it. You're a science fiction role playing game.

Masters was posting rough transcripts of Peter Steele Stanford lectures on the founding of tech startups, blah, blah. But now he's a Trout Dad. Yeah. I mean, all these people realized. But there is, is there a transhumanist agenda? Yeah. Well, it's from these, you know, super dissociated people who like just don't, they hate their

bodies and so they don't understand that like souls exist and so on. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's because souls do exist and abolishing suffering is completely wrong. And suffering ennobles the soul and that's what nobody else, nobody seems to understand. Well, you know that, that like great Wellbeck quote where he's like, actually like physical pain doesn't really yield any great or profound insight. It's actually boring. It sucks and whatever.

I'm like very on the fence as to whether suffering physically or materially really. But there's a deeper kind of suffering, but there's like, yeah, some like metaphysical thing. And yeah, I don't know. I mean, I really like, I have a soft spot for Blake Masters because I really love zero to one as I've said many times. I just found out who he was and I've never read that book. It's great.

It's fun. We should, but I'm thinking I bought a bunch of Rene Girard books. Rene Girard had, because I heard he was Catholic, well, he, well, the one thing, the subreddit was good for one thing and one thing only, which is somebody posted a article or essay. It's good for a lot of things. Girard. It's true. Wrote about anorexia.

Yeah. And he had like that brilliant insight. Eating disorders and mimetic desire. Yeah. And he's, he has said like a very like obvious, but brilliant thing. Like we try to like explain and rationalize eating disorders through like Marxism, feminism, Freudianism, all the kind of universalisms, but isn't the Occam's razor explanation the most obvious, simplest one, the most valid one, which is people want to be thin and attractive.

And there's a small minority of people who are like just crazy enough to take it to an extreme. Girard really gets that. I understand why Peter Thiel is a Girardian, but going back to this thing that we were talking about earlier, also Straussian moment, this essay, I'm sure you've read it. Not for a while, but yeah, I mean, it's really good essay. It's a really brilliant, great essay. It's like well written, but that kind of refutes this idea that Peter Thiel is any sort of like

right winger, a fascist, because he's basically defending liberalism in the guise of critiquing liberalism. Right. Yeah. I mean, you know, I had this like, one, I've met him once and he mostly seemed like, like an overgrown boy. You and me both. Not me.

Like an overgrown boy who had like certain things he was obsessed with. He was interested in talking to people to the extent they could like give him material for his theories, but like other things would just like very like one track mind. But certainly like, I could not see, I mean, he did like, I guess conspire against Gawker, but like in terms of like this, from Machiavellianism, like just didn't seem like that's in his character at all. As far as I could tell, like he just seemed like a very simple, but I was just like, oh, yeah, you're like a big overgrown autistic boy kind of.

Well, okay. But yeah. When I met him, he was wearing his go. That is me. You can't be Machiavellian. You're like gaming, most of all, sometimes. He was wearing like a kind of like an ice blue dry fit and was like very tightly wound or whatever.

And just like it dawned on me also that he, yeah, like, what did you say that he was like interviewing people to. He does this, you know, like sometimes someone like Curtis does. I mean, as a certain type of like you have a theory about the world, and you're looking for people to explain. to kind of fill out your theory a little bit. If they see something out of frame, you just kind of ignore it and move on.

It's very weird. And I kept saying stuff to Teal that he didn't register. Like I kept saying like. Did you go to one of those like gay little salons? I went to one of the gay little salons. What did you all talk about that the salons? Well, I kind of wanted to. I've never been invited to one.

I wanted to go. Honestly, I was there to like in part to be like, hey, do you remember Urban? You invested some money in it like a million years ago. And he like pretty much didn't. So like, but then I was like, what do you think about alien? You know, and I think like all of Silicon Valley's

obsessed with aliens. We got to get into aliens. Because they want they want they want technology for to make money on. And I was like, what if they're angels or demons? And he was like, he just he couldn't process that and just like, no, no, he doesn't really have. No, no, but he doesn't have.

They're definitely angels or he's very utilitarian. He's very German. He's basically a systems thinker. And he doesn't have any patience for like any sort of like metaphysical, even though he uses Christian. The thing is that he has the Christian psychological side. Yeah, but Christian is he.

But that is always very utilitarian. Yeah. When he's in the hands of Germans. Yes. Like they always, no, they're not the worst. They're actually really brilliant and funny. And there's a reason why Germans and Jews are embroiled in this like a longstanding genocidal tango

because they deserve each other because they're in a gang. No, it's true. Their intelligence and their humor is equally matched, but like counter poised in some weird way. Yeah. In what way is he Christian? Well, he's he is Christian, right? And he's a dad.

Does he have a kid now? I don't know. I think so. He's a gay dad. I think he's a gay dad. You know, he'll make us out what you want. There are a number of Christian references throughout his writings.

It's like very odd. Like when you start getting into, like. Sure. But people, I guess there was one guy who wrote an essay about the Christian side of Teal, but I don't remember what he said. I mean, it just. You could make the face that Joe Billion,

like person who has billions of dollars is a real Christian because like I've said before, I don't say it again. It's easier for a camel to fit through the pin head of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Like being rich is evil. And he's also a transhumanist in weird ways. I don't know how he gets together with Christianity. Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.

Wait, what do you mean he's a transhumanist in weird ways? He puts a lot of stuff to extend life and to, you know, to deny death. You see, I don't like that. I've never liked that. That's really wrong. I mean. That's the guy is screaming again.

Oh, the scary guy outside. He's still screaming at Mary. No, I've never, that's what it always freaked me out too. Like it's a uniquely hubrisistic thing to. Well, Jeffrey Epstein was into it too. Like living forever and like inseminating all these teenagers in New Mexico to like continue his progeny or whatever. You know, just like evil ass, like pseudoscience,

like bullshit about like living forever when like suffering is the whole point of being alive. But even from the perspective of like self-interest, like why would you want to live forever? Like you're like Brad Pitt or like Tom Cruise and interview with the vampire. You've like been alive for like 500 years and. No, but it gets on just like materialist idea of heaven.

We're like, I'm going to go explore the stars. It gets into that. So you recreate heaven or being an angel, but in this totally reduced materialist form. What do you mean? What do you mean? Like it's like, what is like Elon Musk's fantasy? Like wants to go to Mars and be an explorer on Mars.

And like, that's a lot of work to do. So you might need a few hundred years to like be a pilot. Well, that I understand. I actually. That's an energy with heaven going to Mars. I understand that. It's a totally reductive inadequate approximation of heaven. It's like, I'm going to explore the stars and fly in space.

And it sucks. It sucks. It sucks. It's for retards. Well, it's a defense mechanism against detaining intimacy with human beings. That's all it is. But which is where we really make contact with like.

But beings there is when we love people and we love people in like very ordinary ways that are not like techie and transcendent, you know, it's not has nothing to do with going on a message board. We're like looking to the the cave of our heart and see the beings that are in there, the angels and the demons that are inside our heart. That's enough exploration for me sometimes.

Can you can you talk about all this angels and demons? Shit, that's way over my head. Maybe you can steer this because I have no idea what he's talking about and I feel like he's a Pisces woman. You're more. I watched a video called UFOs nephilim climate change in the devil by a count called Christian truth. That told me that UFOs are a spiritual phenomenon caused

by fallen angels, a.k.a. demons that the humanoid beings who produce the abductions are really like, you know, these are subject subjective experiences that people are experiencing. They talked to a man named John Mack, who was a UFOologist who wrote a book called abduction. I sent you that video of the guy in Las Vegas summoning the UFO, which was interesting.

Yeah, that there was like the difference between interdimensional and intergalactic and people believe that UFOs are early in this video that they are interdimensional. And they deal with, you know, demonic entities and that there is like a direct parallel between like Gaelic fairy mythology and like contemporary alien abduction stuff,

which is influenced by like science fiction, which is like demonic. But I don't really buy any of that crap, to be honest. But I do think UFOs are not intergalactic. They're the other one interdimensional. Yeah, I don't, I don't think many of them. I'm just like processing. Yeah, I've just, I've been looking to this world

for a few years now and going to conferences and going around and talking to people who've had experiences and, you know, and just the anthropology of it is like totally, because the people are so off the radar and like uncool. I mean, it's like partly like Q and on universe, but like even weirder and uncooler, you know, like. Totally, no one's cool is getting abducted by aliens,

that's for sure, yeah. But yeah, I mean, I. Sky forever getting abducted by aliens. They were smart, that's who they'd be abducting and they're celebs. Yeah, and there's this one guy I know and I'm trying to write about who, you know, he was in the Southern church

and he had like bad Crohn's disease and like his business was going on there and he just started to like, God like cure me or kill me and like, and then these beings of light came to him, took him for a ride that lasted four hours in our world, but he said he was flying in a spaceship for four months, went to see the pyramids, got some prophecy there,

came back was healed, has healing abilities. He's been visited by these angelic and and Marian beings at different times have given him prophecy. Marking the Archangel Michael. Yeah, yeah, that that happened once to him. He hasn't talked about that publicly. So, sorry, no, no, no, we can cut that out. We can cut that out.

Sorry. Is this a person you guys mutually know? No, no. I just told her about it. He told me about it via text, yeah, because I was interested because I heard the theory that UFOs are Marian apparitions, which I thought was like interesting. That's interesting, yeah. You know, though in people, you know. I hate the idea like the Simpsons ass idea of like UFOs

just being like intergalactic traveling ships with like aliens that are like a little different because they grew up on a different planet than us and they're so they're green instead or whatever. Yeah, it's yeah, it's baby brain shit, obviously. We all know it's it's not intergalactic. Yeah. And then there's like these weird ideas that the reason all this disclosure is happening in Congress

and these stupid articles being written that don't say anything. It's because like whatever is behind this phenomenon is saying like by 2025, we're going to tell the people whether you like it or not. So you better like start. And what they're actually leading up to is not that like we've seen some like tic-tac things flying in the sky,

but actually that evolution is fake. We were put here by gods or by aliens or something like that and direction evolution. Yeah. So that's that's what we're going to learn by 2025. People are not ready. I can't wait for them to drop that. That's going to be a great day. Who's they?

They are the phenomenon. The interdimensional. Whatever it is, whether it's gods or demons or whatever, they're like, yeah, we've been controlling shit for a long time. We put you here. I know, but that would be so fulfilling and like rewarding for people to find out.

It's going to be awesome. I think people are like people are horny for some kind of major conspiracy theory or dystopian event that like makes them heroic victims in their own narrative. Like nobody wants to admit that it's like shitty and mundane. You're like back on your child support payments and, you know. But sure.

Yeah, people also think they're demons, which they could be. I'm not, you know, I'm not averse to that, that idea. Yeah. I also feel like a lot of it's whatever is your internal stuff. You'll see kind of where you're, what you see, what you experience is like where your soul is at currently. So you'll see bad stuff if you had to have like

some darkness in your soul. Do you believe that Joan of Arc was having like, you know, authentic, whatever religious? I think almost everything that people try to discredit has like some grain of authenticity in it. Like that's, that's my belief. So true. And why would the masons be trying so hard

to destroy the Catholic church rather than like the Mormon church or like one of the Protestant churches? Like why do they hate the Catholics so much? And why are Catholics always getting scapegoated and there must be some of the Catholicism is really. Well, cause they're like the number one. They were.

Yeah. Well, apparently the Mormons and the Scientologists are also in on it soon. In on what? The anti-Catholic conspiracy. No, like the people who are trying to have the control agenda are the fake Catholics and the Mormons and the Scientologists. They're all.

The control agenda of. Or the fake Catholics, the tradcats. You also asked Ashtasha. Yeah. The Catholics who, or the post-post Vatican to Catholics. Yeah. And what is, what is Vatican to again?

It's like civil rights law for the Catholic church. Yeah, I've done this in the late sixties when they made the Vatican more less superstitious and more like liberal and there have been like anti-popes since then who have like kind of like rolled back certain like issues of canonical law. But the whole issues that they were contradicting previous canonical laws,

which the papacy had never done before. And in that way they are like heretical and not real popes, whatever. So yeah, so the Vatican, let's call it the Vatican, the Vatican to counter church. The Mormons and the Scientologists are trying to use the UFO messaging like to their benefit. But don't the, aren't the UFOs divine by this? Well, I think a lot of it's like them saying,

oh, we have inside knowledge of this, it's only reserved for the higher up in the church. And like it can't be shared by the lay people. Okay. Like I've heard about this guy. That doesn't make any sense. No, but they come and they're like, stop talking about this or we'll mess with you.

So like they'll show up and threaten people. Yeah. The aliens? No, no, the Mormons or the Catholics. Oh, oh, oh, oh. They'll dispatch like strong armed arbiters to like go and threaten people's lives. Interesting.

Say stop, stop talking about this. So do you think there's going to be a rapture of some kind? You think it's end times? I think there's going to be something that people, it's not like a literal end times, but it's like it's a shift in consciousness where people who are ready for it or like this is amazing and people who are like still stuck in old materialist

paradigms are going to be like, oh my God, this is cow. So the people on orbit, you mean? No, they're all, they're all. You are plugged into the metaverse. Don't you think that we're all just going to like trudge forward and confusion? I mean, probably, you know, there have been plenty of decisions. There's a whole history of failed prophecy,

but I do think something is, I don't know. I'm still on board with something shifting in 2025 or 2026 at which point the world's going to change. It's interesting. Well, this guy that you spoke to in that old Harper's article, what was his name, Michael Vassar? Yeah, he, you know, he, what's his deal? He predicted a cultural revolution

between the years of 2025 and 2030. He saw a lot. He did not like that article and wanted to sue me. Well, because you mocked him and made him sound like Casper from eastbound and down, but he was wearing like a clingy red sweater and like issuing a spittle. Clangies, clangies. It's like, it sounds hot when it's like you're describing a woman,

but when you're describing like a balding 34-year-old man. This is my, like, he wasn't balding. He looked fun, but I, I, I, I, I, I'm going to Google this guy. I need to know what he looks like. I had no physical description and then my editor was like, you need to put in physical description. I was like, oh, like, this is not what I'm good at.

Clangy red sweater. And I was like, okay, we're going to sweater that was clingy. Clangy. I got it. You weren't thinking that. I feel, I feel bad. I mean, I like, I like the guy. It's okay. It's okay. It's, it's this guy. He does look like an eastbound and down character.

He does. He looks devious. He looks like the Russian baseball player. He's like better than Kenny. Ivan Dechenko. Who's played by Ike Berenholdt? How do I know that? Because I'm literally horny for that guy. Yeah, I know, I know. Um, but yeah, that guy saw a lot.

Michael. For Ike Berenholdt, it's not Michael Vassar. Um, no, he saw, he saw, like, I mean, actually, like, Yeah. The reason I quote him so much was like, I was like, yeah, this guy's just like spitting prophecy. Yeah. So you didn't mean to kind of backhandedly insult him.

It's hard because someone that that grandiose and like accurate in certain ways and totally inaccurate in others that give you quotes. But that's like the nastiness of being a journalist. I mean, like, it's just

people give you material. It's amazing. And it doesn't always serve them. And you just want to print it or you want to and, and you can't help it. I mean, in the end, you're serving yourself. And then you get, well, of course, yeah. And actually, like, I appreciate

Pogue for sort of acknowledging that in that Vanity Fair piece. But, um, fuck, what was I going to ask you about Michael Vassar and oh yeah, you were saying on Justin Murphy's podcast that, like, a lot

of those guys that you interviewed didn't like that article and they sent it back to you many months later with, like, a bunch of, like, redlining or whatever. No, no. Or was that a different? No, that was, I was going to write about Kurt. The reason I got into her was I was going to write a profile of Kurt.

Oh, and then they don't bother. Yeah, I was going to write it. And I was just trying to, again, quote him a lot and let him say the insane things he says and people could just touch themselves. I think people are, I mean, I don't know how talented people are, but I'd like to believe, like, readers can be like,

oh yeah, this guy's crazy. This guy's a genius or whatever. Yeah. But they were like, okay, first of all, they wanted to fact check his historical statements. And I'm like, you know what, I don't have all the time in the world to read all the history that Kurt has. And I'm not going to fact check it with Wikipedia.

I mean, if you quote it, isn't that enough? Yeah. Right? No, I mean, he would make claims about, you know, something, somewhat inflammatory and they're like, this goes against all, like, conventional interpretations of history. But that's the point. I mean, that's what he does. But, like, what? Like, give us, like, the most

extreme example. Like, the Civil War was about slavery or something? Well, he said something. I mean, I'm trying to remember whether I put this in the piece or not, but he was, like, you know, the effect of the Civil War was actually to the North Nationalized slavery. So it's like, I mean, like, and so in the end, like industrial

slavery. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's literally true though. Yeah. I mean, Mark Ames says this and he's, like, a garden variety leftist journalist. It's, like, not that controversial. Right. Yeah. Or, you know, like, I mean, he would go and listen to this blog. He'd be, like, you know what? Like, I read all the primary

sources I could find from slaves and was, like, a lot of them, like, didn't say they were mistreated by their masters. I think, like, you know, a lot of them, there were some really bad, like, and so it felt like that. I mean, come on. I mean, my slavery is wrong. Hold on, but I hate to say this. I hate to

say this. Slavery is wrong. It's wrong. We all agree. Slavery serfdom, any type of human bondage also follows a bell curve model where there's, like, 10% really horrific slave owners, 10%

really benevolent slave owners and the middle ground is the middle ground. Yeah, I think that was the point. I don't even know what to put it in. The point is that nobody should be owned by another human being, but, like, you can't split hairs over, like, how nice is the kind of

assumption. All I'm saying is, like, I would have put, like, a statement of that, Kim saying something like that, and then do I need to fact check that? Like, it's just there. You can get offended by it. You can disagree. You can take them on, but, like, me presuming to, you know, like, this is actually what, like, Pogue

did very well. Like, he let people say things without fact-checking them in parentheses, you know, and people can say things that are incorrect. But the problem with, like, somebody like Jarvan, right, is that he's somewhat autistic and somewhat of a provocateur in this, like,

very innocent, naive, like, precocious 14-year-old boy way where he says things that are, like, that everybody acknowledges and thinks in private and then he gets, like, in trouble for it. And, but that's kind of, like, on the commentariat

for reacting to that when we all know. But anyway, so you were saying, like, Pogue did a good job of letting people speak. I think I heard him, you know, say this on some interviewers. It's like, yeah, what I need to do, and he would say this to his editors, like, I need to

I can't be the one who, you know, uses the fascism word. Like, I, you know, like, I just need to, like, be able to quote people without passing any judgment and let the reader pass judgment for themselves. Sneaky. And, like, that's what I was trying to do in this article about Curtis, just, like, quote him. Without saying the F

word. Yeah, and, and, and, and then, like, once later, they, they sent me this at a back where, like, they're like, no, we want you to, we need to fact check everything this piece and you have to say, no, this is wrong and bad after every sentence essentially. And I was like, no, like, I'm not going to do that. It just

it's a horrible writing to begin with. This is the wired people. Yeah, this is the wired piece. And then, you know, like, we went back and forth a few times. It was approaching deadline. I, at some point, I was just like, later, I don't not publishing this. I have Ethereum money. I have Ethereum money. And

yeah, like, also I have much more serious. I have a galaxy. Yeah. So what, what's up with your galaxy? How many planets you got? How many stars you got? How many planets you got? It goes galaxy stars, planets, then what? Uh, you can, you can spin up, like,

Asteroids. Moons and you can get a free comment if you want to just use the network, but some people ban comments because they're poorly behaved. Can you fuck with other people's galaxies? Yeah, can you soar around? There's not, that's something like, if someone like wanted to become, like, some

pirate monarch, oligarch, they, and they had even one galaxy, there's still 255 that could ignore them or tell them to fuck off. Could I gain power? Is that what you want? Maybe on urban, maybe on urban I'll have a little bit of Machiavellian-style personality. If you gain voluntary power, people thought you were

a good galaxy owner. Exactly. How do you become a good galaxy? What counts as a good galaxy owner? Well, no, I think it would be pretty easy for us to acquire galaxies. Do you think so? You definitely get some stars. He paid half a mill for one. I know, but we're women. Come on. And they have a women

problem. We all do, honey. We've all got a women problem. All the galaxies do is route, like, some networking stuff, so they barely do anything. Well, okay, I'm going to put this out here, though, while I'm drunk.

If anybody wants to give Dasha and me some galaxies, then we will join urban. And tell us exactly how to do it, and let us use it on our phones. Mm-hmm. Those are our demands. Then we'll do the urban. But, like, okay, like, what dawns

on me with this whole Vanity Fair discourse? WebBrain has a star, so. What do you mean WebBrain is? Do they have a galaxy? No, they have a star. Oh, they have a star. So a star has planets? Yeah, a star can sell 65,000 planets, so you can be a

medium-sized landlord. How much does that cost? Right now, it's around $10,000. Okay. A WebBrain put, are they mortgaging their star? No. Or did somebody get it for them?

They came, they emceed a panel at Urban's Convention Awesome October. Okay, that's what I'm saying. This is what we're talking about, the events, yeah. The parlaying of clout into the infrastructure of orbit. Sorry,

orbit. Cosmola social network orbit, where you can stone wife to death. It's a stated policy. You can look at PJ bag, Cosmola, all day. Order deep Chicago style pizza from

America. DHL to your door. I'm on the board of the Urban Foundation, and it's like our stated policy to bribe people with stars to join the network and do interesting things, so can the baby get a star?

What does he have to add? What do we have to add? Yes, he can have a star. He's cute and pleasant, and I think a future dictator, because he's an Aries, and he likes to do the signal. Yeah, we should get him a star now, just so when he turns 18, it's going to be so valuable, because the

Earth is going to really take that. It'll be like the real real estate. The real real, yeah. It's going to be so awesome when the real real estate starts accepting Brandy Melville as a brand for consignment. They're never going to.

I'm sure this Rome t-shirt will be a sought-after item. I kind of feel like this vague climate of edginess and danger is mutually beneficial for the lefty journalists and the likes of Moldbug

and Peter Teal, right? They both sides get off on it. We're all winning. Yeah, I mean that's why I think I'm spending my time looking at aliens and not writing about politics, because it's kind of boring. Even this back and forth

and this discourse over Teal is just like, I was into it in 2015, and I'm just like, I moved on. So you think the UFOs are demons? No, I think I don't really use that framework, but I do think some of this stuff that's

appeared to my friend are angelic. I do think there's some bad juju out there, for sure. What do you think makes someone more sensitive to, you know, receiving these UFO experiments? I mean it's quite common after people have a major trauma, like a death

or some illness or something. You know, you can open that channel with psychedelics, but it's not very safe generally. Dubious, yeah. But, you know, any kind of spiritual opening, what makes you receptive to prayer

feeling like it's working and doing something? It takes some time, it takes some work sometimes. Or else you're just naturally sensitive and you've been like that since a kid. I've been very sensitive, yeah, for a long time, but I think I lived a lot of my life in sin to sort of dull myself to how sensitive I really was.

Right, and I think there's a lot of psychedelics or whatever, or just... I just got a bad feeling about these urban parties, I gotta say. Yeah, I'm gonna... Because you know what happened at the MPCC Fest? Yeah, we're not doing that shit.

I know, but where are they gonna be? Some lofts? Some creepy lofts for people to OD on fentanyl in? No fentanyl out. It's just a really dark time. What are we talking about?

How dark it is and how fostering kind of like a party culture in our... Look at MPCC. I'm just talking about how I have a bad feeling about Urban Week, to be honest. Wait, what is Urban Week? You'll be in France.

Yes. The 19th to the 22nd, so like next... That's literally my out-of-town date. Yeah, we're just having meetups in some parties and there's a book review that's launching,

the Mars review, that's having a launch party. So who are we talking about? Tyrant Press, Compact Mag? No, none of... There's that one Return Mag. Return Mag, yeah.

But no, it's all like Urban-specific stuff. Although we're working with no agency and we're working with wet brain and some other people who are... We don't know, he might just like show up secretly. Like his daughter came to... He's such an enigma. His daughter and his fiancee came to the thing in Austin,

but he didn't come himself. Well, I'll keep my eyes peeled for that bouncing bob. Yeah, he's invited if he wants to show up, but we probably won't... So they're just parties. Parties, discussions where my esoteric group is doing an initiation ceremony.

You know, we talk about energy healing, we talk about Tibetan Buddhism, we talk about there's one guy who's into Crowley and I'm a little suspicious of that. You had to get that guy out of there. We talk about Meditations on the Tower, that amazing Tonborg book.

And so we're going to go out to Red Hook and have an initiation for anyone who wants to show up. You're going to want that Crowleyist out of there. What's an initiation? Ulster Crowley is like a Satanist. I've had some really bad experience in my youth that I'll tell you about later.

Yeah, we're also... The guy who's into it seems suspicious of all of Crowley's personal life and how he's like, yeah, in his 20s he was a really good magician. I'm like, maybe so. Maybe so, like he would have been one of the most gifted magicians ever. So there's esoterica,

there's discussions. Yeah, there's something that was going to be in a church on Sunday for people who want to figure out network spirituality, like, you know, whatever. What is network spirituality? Nobody knows.

There's a there's a there's a philosophy talk on Thursday night. What kind of philosophy? I think it's about, like, teleology, which I don't, you know, so... Teleology.

There's a there's a orbit-only performance of Dime Square, so we get the Christian Lorenzen appearance. He's written for the book of you, too. So there's the Christian Lorenzen appearance. Perfect. How pumped are you?

I'm so excited for orbit week. I can't wait. Wait, why are you guys hosting this in NYC? We just want to see who shows up. It's like, we did this thing in also in October, and the people who showed up were like,

we're going to take it to the beast and see what happens. The drunken canal. Matthew Gazda. Who won't be there. I don't know. You can use invited to something. Probably us.

I have one question for you. Are you vaccinated? No. Good for you. Yeah, I have... Very based. I think all of western medicine is a total...

Totally. The power of Mary and Williamson is the only... Only sensible health policy. Are you an Ivan Ilych fan? By any chance? I hear people talk about it all the time. He agrees with you that western medicine

is largely a sham. I feel that way intuitively, but I can't really explain why. I kind of feel like hospitals or death camps, but maybe that's just personal because two of my family members are both killed by hospitals. I don't think...

My dad and my sister are both killed by... Medical men. Why do you think that? Why do I think they were? My dad went in for a follow-up surgery and got C. diff in the hospital. Got what?

That bacterial infection C. diff. And then died a few days later. My sister got an ear infection that broke through her eardrum. What passed the blood-run barrier turned into meningitis. They misdiagnosed her. Thought she was having a panic attack

and sent her home with her husband and then she brought her back seven hours later. The risk of death gets 8% worse every hour. Yeah, that's... I know. I'm with you.

This very leading and loaded question because I think this similar thing happened to my dad but... That's between us girls on this here pod. No, I think that there's a lot of straight-up negligence and malpractice. You just don't know what they're doing with these doctors. And when we

account for how COVID killed people and you don't account for a ventilator... I mean, it's impossible to sort out and I don't want to get into it. Events will remember at the start of the pandemic and everybody was like there's a shortage of masks and the essential workers

and healthcare workers need them so don't wear a mask. And how quickly that flipped. And then the ventilator thing was insane because there was the shortage of ventilators that the United States spent, I don't know how many millions on,

that are now like laying dormant in warehouses. It was a wretched time, truly. And so many people were literally killed by ventilation. Anyway, do you think it's too late for me?

Do you think I'm going to make it? Just in general? No, I think in the end general good health and high vibration staves off almost anything. So if you're just otherwise vital and healthy and taking all the cranks

and all the supplements that the internet recommends. That I don't have to worry about Web 3 or anything like that. I can just put it out of my mind. Yeah, I think putting it out of your mind is like good practice for a lot of this garbage.

You can do that rigorously then you'll live a long time and be happy. That's my goal. We're not that long of a time because who wants to live that long? Too long. And that's why transhumanists are so misguided.

There's no reason to... Why are they so obsessed with the earthly realm? What do they like about it so much? How much power they have? And they're miserable. I've come to this position that death is not the end.

It's also can be tragic and I'm fucking sad that my sister died but also death is not the worst thing in the world. And life is beautiful too. I'm just sorting this through. This is my spiritual opening.

The transhumanists think it's like yes, we must upload our minds into silicone or else live forever in these bodies we hate. I hate the thought of... Uploading your mind. I know, please, spare me. Consciousness isn't even in the brain.

It's just something we tap into. What do you think of consciousness? I think essentially there's a field of consciousness that... What is consciousness? It's part of our cognitive development and then there's an existential

aspect to it that actually corresponds more to what is a soul which is most of us are experiencing or numbing ourselves to experiencing at any given moment. I believe in all this reincarnation stuff and souls choose to incarnate in bodies

that we don't have. What happens to squandered souls? They become like a bug or something? I mean, I think they learn their lesson and then come back again and probably squander a couple hundred more times and then they learn something

and do better the next time. It sucks, but... No, sure. It's comforting in a way, I guess. Yeah, but also time doesn't exist so it's all happening simultaneously. Totally. Yeah, exactly.

And it's all always happening and that's crazy about it. It's all happening now. From Bernard Modville to Brandy Melville to Urban Week happening. I guess we'll post this... We're going to post this after... When is Urban Week?

It's like the 19th. We'll post on Monday the one we recorded on Wednesday and then we'll post this one maybe on Friday or something. Okay, so Urban Week will be... Starting. In effect and we'll... Everyone will have something to listen to after they have so much fun

at the Urban Week parties. The funnest party is in New York. You heard it here. It's called Orbit. It's owned by Hasbulla. It's a Muslim... Orbit mocked pride. It's a decentralized Muslim chatting app

for pedophiles. So you're going to want to get on there... and buy up all that real estate. So the real estate is endless, really. No, it's fine. I put it quite large. How much is a galaxy now? 1.2?

1.5? I'm clear. It's all sold sort of privately. Can you... Can I just say one last thing? Can you imagine having millions of dollars and using those funds to buy a galaxy? Like, that's crazy to me.

That's insane. Like, if you... We all did that kind of money. I mean, we might sound like fools just a few years from now, you know? We might have an egg on our faces, but I think... I don't... There's something about it. We're just buying...

used Mew Mew shoes on the real... Hard assets are important. The other one is there. And the Hastings mattress has the last few 50 years. You sleep like an angel. You don't have to worry about her, but... because you're sleeping good.

Buy a good mattress. I mean, that's more important than... Definitely. Yeah. Mine's okay. Good enough. Yeah, it's good enough. If you're not waking up screaming, you're good.

I'm not waking up crying from dreams, but... I've had some fucking crazy dreams lately. I feel like maybe I've been... Yeah, maybe I have. Not too often. Stuff is moving, you know? Processing.

Totally. Do you have any closing remarks? Do you have anything you want to plug? Or... No. I just say it's like... You can get an urban plan out for like three bucks and get on the network and try it out. And see what your...

One plan is three bucks. Different people sell for different prices, but it's really cheap. You can probably get one for free if you ask the right person. And you can... try it and see what it... It just... To me, I mean, like, what it feels like

is when I was using the internet, like as a kid in high school or something like that. I was like, oh, this is... You know, I was on a dial-up modem. It was super slow, super janky. And I was like... What a strange world with people who know about stuff and, you know,

I'm having conversations with... And it felt safe. I wasn't being groomed, I don't think. You might have been. I was definitely... We were definitely groomed on the internet, but look how we turned out. I used to send pictures of my pussy. To who?

Underage, the guys I met on message boards. They were giving actual pedophiles and trying to be 13-year-olds like me on the internet. And I was using digital camera with flash on to take pictures of my pussy. Like, that's so... Honestly, that's dark to think about. And I'm sure that kind of thing is going on...

All the time, yeah. Not yet. We don't have good image hosting. Oh, yeah. And we don't have any pedophiles on yet, but... Yeah, how do you know? That's not true. Come on, that is not true. I don't know. I don't think so, bro.

I mean, one thing, Urban is not the dark web, it's not tour, so hopefully when the assholes arrive, we can hang them all. You can't monitor people's private messages, so... No, I mean, I think if someone got a warrant, they could, you know...

A lot of the security... I'm just saying if law enforcement is like, oh, we're worried about this person, they could kind of trade it. From the real police, not the Urban police. The Urban police. Except real cops. They're like,

your dialectical materialism isn't sound enough. They're like the Timon and Pumba of dialectical materialism. Actually, I interviewed Kampot for the Curtis piece for Wired, but I didn't... Get him in a galaxy. Now he's like a total

Curtis hater. Oh, he's anti-transnow. Like Kendrick Lamar? What? I don't know. People are talking about Kendrick Lamar. He's trans. You're about this girl. Kendrick Lamar is trans now.

It's crazy. Anyway, anything else about UFOs or anything? We're wrapping up. How will you ensure that black people are represented on Urban?

I don't know. Well, they get the same size planet as white people, or it's going to be a little smaller? No, it's good. They can exactly the same planet as everyone else. All right, that's good. Nice. Sounds great.

We'll see you there. We'll see you.